Geriatric Kitty Advice Needed for Grasshopper

[kohala]

Sorry I haven't posted lately - I'm taking some much needed time to check in, wish I had a full day to see what's been going on!

I need to get information on feline aging. Grasshopper will be eighteen this year, if she makes it. I can't tell if she's sick or just getting old. I am probably suffering a serious case of denial about the fact that 17 is OLD for a cat. *sigh*

Anyway, she's lost weight and is quite thin through the hips, down to about 7 - 8 lbs (normally 10 - 11). She has very little appetite (I found she has lost several small bottom teeth) but she will eat, and hasn't been throwing it back up (she was for a while). She drinks a lot of water, but doesn't show a lot of interest in food.

I know she probably needs to see her vet, however Dadcat's (my husband) recent stay in the hospital has limited any funds for vet bills that could grow. I thought that since cats are sensitive animals she might have been reacting to the "sick" environment aroung here (we've had serious bouts of colds, flu, and bronchial infections this winter, one of which hospitalized my husband.)

What I would like to hear about are any experiences with kitty hospice (caring for aging and dying elderly pets). I accept that aging and death are a part of the life cycle and I believe the end of a life should be made comfortable and loving just as a birth. What I don't really know are how to read her comfort levels - how to tell if she should be put down.

I would hate to put a cat to sleep if she only has a cold or is just aging normally.

So if you have expereinces that you would be willing to share, I'd be grateful!

Love to all and all the furkids - I've missed you all. I'll probably be checking in every other day now that Dad's feeling better.

[AmberLee]

Sorry, no experience here, but will hold the three of you in my thoughts and prayers!

[BastetsMum]

Sounds like her thyroid is hyperactive. That happens in older kitties.

Unfortunately, I really have no help advice to give you. Enjoy her company while you can and make her life as comfortable as possible.

[jenluckenbach]

My cat Bear passed on at 20. About 1 1/2 to 2 years prior to his death he lost weight. He became very thin and completely blind. In hind sight I think he may have developed diabetes but I was not as knowlegeable at that time so as long as he got around and ate and seemed fine I left him go. He did well and when he no longer showed any interest in eating THAT is when I had him PTS. He is the only cat that lived to this age so it is the only first hand experience that I have to offer.


P.S. I am very glad that you checked in. You know that I love Grasshopper! Go with your heart. Trust me when I say, you will know when it is time.

[slick]

I guess I'll be facing this soon because Speckles is 16 but showing no real signs of aging except that she sleeps more. The people that I cat-sit for have had 2 pass away from old age. Sandy became very thin because he ate more, but pooped more so he didn't absorb enough nutrition. He had two little strokes where his back end would be paralyzed but then he would be fine the next morning. Sadly, the third one did not correct itself so a decision was made. Sandy was 15.

Pumpkin was much the same. He basically just slowed down enough to the point that he asked to leave. He was 18.

If I were in your shoes, I would probably just opt for a blood test to make sure everything is in working order. Other than that, your gut will tell you when it's time to take action.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

I agree with Slick. A full panel blood test would at least tell you if all her organs are functioning properly. My idea from your description is kidney failure, but the symptoms are so similar for other diseases like diabetes. The vet will also be able to tell you if Grasshopper is in any pain and give you a more thorough idea of just what's going on with her. You should be able to get an office visit and blood test for under $150.00. Might seem like a lot, but then at least you'll know what's going on with her and just how much time you might have left with her.

I'm sorry to hear things with your husband have been so rough, but I'm glad to hear things are going better now. And I'm sorry that this has to come up with Grasshopper at such a difficult time for you. The last thing you need now is the stress of having to make such a tough decision.

Good luck and please let us know what you find out.

[catcrazylady]

I'm sorry that I have no advice to offer but I do wish you the best of luck. It sure sounds like you all have had a hard time lately. When it rains it poors doesn't it?
The one thing that I really believe is that you will know when the time is right for Grasshopper to go. Hopefully that will some time from now!!

[kuhio98]

Sounds like Kuhio's last year (she lived to be 17 years and one week). She was diagnosed with a hyperthyroid. She wanted to eat and drink a lot but almost always threw up. She was down to 6 pounds and towards the end I would grind up the cat food with water to make more of a soup. She loved lunch meat and cheese so I'd mince it up as finely as I could and her favorite thing of all was any meat baby food. We let her eat any thing she wanted because we were desperate to keep weight on her. Right up until the end she was happy and active and in no pain. Grasshopper is in our prayers.

[Logan]

Kohala, I have no advice, but I would try to squeeze out that vet visit if you possibly can sometime in the future, just to know what is going on. I completely understand the financial pressure you're under right now. I hope your husband is better! :)

My Mimi will be 15 in June. So far, so good, but I do see her changing her ways a bit, sleeping more, wanting to go outdoors, less (which is fine with me), but she does still have her feisty attitude. I think Butter has been good for her in this way, as he keeps her on her toes and alert, where if she were an only cat, I think she wouldn't have as good of an excuse to get up and hiss and let him know she is still the queen. I find her personality to be a bit more unpredictable these days, though, and we have to be careful with her around the children because she will strike out with claws and teeth when you least expect it. She has never been like that before.

Mimi has always been 6-7 pounds, so she doesn't have a whole lot of extra weight to spare. I know how you feel, though, because I want her to be with us for a long, long time to come, and it isn't unheard of for a cat to live 20+ years. I hope Grasshopper and Mimi can be among those that do! :)

[kohala]

....and caring! :) I talked to the vet again today, and she recommended no vet visit unless she is vomiting blood. (She isn't!) I am so grateful tohave a vet that doesn't try to bring her in ($$$$) but instead considers the "need" rather than the "want". I didn't mention that she had a full blood panel just 3 months ago and there were signs of kidey deterioration, but other than that she was given an excellent bill of health.
I appreciate the experiences you all shared with me, as I am new to the "elderly cat" reality. I have a much better understanding now, and interestingly enough, I think Grasshopper does, too! I have been feeding her by letting her lick baby food off my fingers for the past week, once she started to eat again. Tonight was the first time she bathed after dinner! I felt that was a very good sign.
So we accept our age and our limitations, all of us, and our spirits are all starting to pick up. Tonight as I fix Dadcat dinner Grasshopper has been following me from here in the bedroom into the kitchen where I check the dinner, and back, every time I go! Alright!!!!

Thanks so much, I will get used to my skinny old but basically OK cat and enjoy her immensely until its time to say goodbye!
Blessings to all - Ko & Grasshopper

[Vermontcat]

I'm glad to hear that Grasshopper and Dadcat are both feeling better.:)

My cat Samantha is 15 and still healthy.
I found that getting other pets like a parakeet and gerbils help to keep Samantha on her toes.
She loves to watch them for entertainment.;)

I agree Kohala that we should love our older kitties as much as possible while they are still here with us.
I hope all of our cats can enjoy happy lives into their 20's.:)

[CatDad]

If she had a panel 3 months ago then it showed have showed indications.

You mentioned that it showed kidney issues. I am sorry to say that the symptoms that you described are signs of renial failure.

You may want to consider having the vet do a reduced panel and check those areas. I can't remember what they are off the top of my head.

If it is still in early stages a change of diet to a low residue food would probably help. Sorry I don't have better news, but it is a dieses that can be control to a certain extent for a long time.

Our RB flicka passed away due to renal failure and she was 21. She had a great life almost all the way to the end, so if you talk to your vet you should be able to help here live for some time.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Tubby is in the early stages of kidney failure also. Is Grasshopper throwing up a lot? You mention she's not vomiting blood, but is she just vomiting in general? Tubby was doing this also and the vet prescribed 1/4 of a Pepcid everyday. It helps calm the stomach so they don't throw up so much, and he has gained about 5 lbs back since I've been giving it to him. My vet also said that there are preliminary tests going on to see if the Pepcid helps with the renal failure, but she said at it won't hurt and it might just help because it helps the blood flow to the kidneys which can only be a good thing. She also said that whatever damage is done won't be reversed, but it will slow down the progression of the disease, probably because of the increased blood flow.

I don't know how easy Grasshopper is to pill, but if she's not that bad, you might want to consider this, especially if she's throwing up a lot.

Good luck and please keep us updated. :)

[slick]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
vet prescribed 1/4 of a Pepcid everyday.
Debbie: is that just the human Pepcid you buy at the drug store?? I know I've seen Pepcid AC and other brands. I'm thinking of trying Speckles on this because she is throwing up alot too and it's not always hair.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Yep, just the plain old people Pepcid. And yes, I guess the technical name is Pepcid AC. The only hard part about it is that they are so tiny to begin with, and then just try and cut that into 4 even tinier pieces. I've got one of those pill cutter things and it works pretty good. Hard to get 4 evenly sized pieces, but I figure the bigger ones can't hurt him and if it's too tiny, I just stuff 2 of them in instead of one bigger one.

Try it and see and let us know how it goes. Seems kitties get acidy tummies just like we do and the only difference is it makes them throw up instead of just suffering like we do. :rolleyes: :D

[CatDad]

Thanks for the informaiton on the PepcidAC. I had had not heard about the study on bloof flow and pepcid. That is good information to know.

Slick I am not sure if ther are different strength pepcids, but I believe you want the 10 mg Pepcid AC. T&P is correctly they are rather hard to cut up.

This is what I use on Joey to help her stomach calm down when she has been sick. However, I haven't had to do that for a while.

[Cataholic]

Ko,
Sorry to hear things are rough right now. I, too, would think about another panel..it sounds to me like hyperthyroid. Tex is HT, and I am blessed cause pilling him is easy as 1,2,3. He still struggles with the weight, and is on a second med for kidney failure. He is 'only' 12 (nearly 13). I wish you luck with Grasshopper. Us tuxies have to stick together, you know.

[kohala]

Grasshopper is a pain to pill, and frankly I'm a wuss when it comes to pilling her because she hates it so much - MReeeW hssss!! But, I have been told to put her on it before, and when I spoke to my new vet, she wanted me to use tagamet. When I mentioned the Pepcid (since I still have a lot of it), she said go for it. SO, sorry Grasshopper, but pills are going in, one way or the other! Actually, the first time I tried it (2 days ago) she 'slimed' it (and me - yuck!) and out it came. So, sadly I had to be forceful, and I am so glad I was. You're right about the size, T&P, I also use a pill cutter and quarter them.
I din't know about the blood flow thing, so thanks for that info! I won't say it's working just yet, but will post again, as she has started to perk up, even tho she still drops those little stools around. Not many, one a day, maybe.
I brought home Beechnut baby food, chicken, turkey and a couple of veggies to thin the protein out. Tonite she ate 2 tsp of chik & sweet potato, out of her dish which I set on the bed next to her. I think I'll still give her swome later by finger, she seems to like the attention.
T&P, she had been vomiting a LOT a few weeks ago, mostly liquid. She literally covered the entire bathroom floor one time when I heard the warning sunds and carried her in there just in time. Not a big bathroom, but you get the picture (sorry). I was in the middle of serious Dad care so just cut her food back and kept an eye on her. I thought she was stressing. The vomiting has stopped for some time now, and thankfully she has not vomited the bloody stuff the vet told me to watch for.
But we're still not out of the woods as she is very skinny thru the hips and still has those tarry poops with traces of blood in them. Not as much as before, tho - so - ?
Thanks, I think your prayers and good wishes are working!

Yep, I am a tuxie fan, and when she leaves me someday, I'll probably look for a couple of tuxies who want to adopt me!

Herself is lying on the bed behind me, checking out the keyboard action - so she must be saying "Hi" and "Thank you;) "

Love to all, Ko

[Karen]

So glad to hear she ( and Dadcat) are feeling somewhat better. I have no personal experience with elderly kitties, just with elderly humans. If you ever need that kind advice, I'll share. I know older kitties seem to get skinnier, and can still hang on and enjoy life for quite a while. My boss' cat is 17 and they have noticed he's lost weight as well. They've never had a cat before, so they are new to this as well.

Oh, give Kohala skritches for me, okay? (And if Dadcat's jealous, give him a hug from me, too - that way you get one yourself, too!) Tell kohala that when I was grwoing up, my whole neighborhood was populated by Tux kitties, most often polydactyl tuxies to boot! So to me, a tux is what kitties were "supposed" to look like, and when the girls across the street "imported" a little calico kitty, it took me a while to appreciate that she was just as normal a cat as the others!

[zippy-kat]

Ko -
I don't have any advice but want you to know that my love and prayers are on the way!

A fellow Grasshopper fan,
Zip

[AvaJoy]

I am presently dealing with my elderly (approx. 20 - not sure of her age) Lily's renal problems. She still eats, but has been losing weight and feels like nothing more substantial than fur and bones when I pick her up. :(

She will be on Sub-Q fluids (which my husband and I administer at home) twice a week for the remainder of her life.

Her condition was discovered when I took her for her check-up and my vet ran a geriatric profile (to the tune of $90.00). I was relieved that she was not also diabetic, as her water intake had increased and I thought for sure she would be diagnosed with diabetes. Renal failure is much more serious, I know, but at least it was not compounded by Diabetes.

I had a re-check appt. for her last week but it was cancelled so I must re-schedule. More blood will be drawn to see if the levels have changed since she has been on the IV fluids, and possibly I will have to increase the frequency of giving her the Sodium Chloride.

I wish you and yours an easier time of it than you have been recently experiencing. I know firsthand the emotional rollercoaster you are on. Sending prayers & [[HUGS]] :)

[CatDad]

On the subject of pilling. I have a kitty that I really can not even pick up and pilling her is very easy.

I use a soft hairball treat and I cut it in half and I can reform the treat around the pill. I just put it down in fornt of her and it is gone.

Just a suggestion. If it works will make you life so much easier.:)

If you have any questions let me know.

AvaJoy I am so sorry to hear about your kitty, that is tough. However the quality of life can still be good for a long time. Mine was on subqs every 3 days for about 8 or 10 months. However, I can't do needles and we took a trips to the vet. It actually worked quite well.

[kohala]

You guys are fabulous!!!:D :cool: My vet mentioned hydrating her and sending us with the home injection kit (Sub Q's, I take it!) As Dadcat is very familiar with vetting his animals (he vetted his horses, dogs, cats, etc. years ago when he was "horse trading" as he calls it!;) ) he was all for taking on the task. Now that she seems to be less likely to go over any day, I will discuss it with him. Definitely a visit to my wonderful Dr. Todd is on the agenda.
Thanks for the love, too, old friends and new!
Oh, yes - I will try the hairball goo trick - I think that might make it easier to get it into her, but no bets on her gobbling up - spoiled kitty!

Ko & Grasshopper

[AvaJoy]

Originally posted by CatDad
On the subject of pilling . . . I use a soft hairball treat and I cut it in half and I can reform the treat around the pill. I just put it down in fornt of her and it is gone.

AvaJoy I am so sorry to hear about your kitty, that is tough. However the quality of life can still be good for a long time. Mine was on subqs every 3 days for about 8 or 10 months. However, I can't do needles and we took a trips to the vet. It actually worked quite well.

I use the same exact method for pilling Meeshe, who gets a dewormer pill every 3 months because he is my only cat that has access to the outdoors and consequently brings us "presents" now and then. ;)

Thanks for the encouraging words about Lily. I hope the subqs will prolong her life, as was your experience. She has only been on this treatment for about a month, and hopefully she will be with us for many more months. :)

[krazyaboutkatz]

Kohala, I don't have any experience with geriatric cats yet because my oldest is only 8 years old. It sounds likes you've been receiving some very good advice and I'm glad to hear that Grasshopper is doing better. Hopefully she'll be able to live into her 20's and have a happy painfree life. Prayers and positive thoughts are being sent your way. Please take care.

[davidpizzica]

Originally posted by kohala
....and caring! :) I talked to the vet again today, and she recommended no vet visit unless she is vomiting blood. (She isn't!) I am so grateful tohave a vet that doesn't try to bring her in ($$$$) but instead considers the "need" rather than the "want". I didn't mention that she had a full blood panel just 3 months ago and there were signs of kidey deterioration, but other than that she was given an excellent bill of health.
I appreciate the experiences you all shared with me, as I am new to the "elderly cat" reality. I have a much better understanding now, and interestingly enough, I think Grasshopper does, too! I have been feeding her by letting her lick baby food off my fingers for the past week, once she started to eat again. Tonight was the first time she bathed after dinner! I felt that was a very good sign.
So we accept our age and our limitations, all of us, and our spirits are all starting to pick up. Tonight as I fix Dadcat dinner Grasshopper has been following me from here in the bedroom into the kitchen where I check the dinner, and back, every time I go! Alright!!!!

Thanks so much, I will get used to my skinny old but basically OK cat and enjoy her immensely until its time to say goodbye!
Blessings to all - Ko & Grasshopper Enjoy Grasshopper as long as you are able Thai my blue point siamese lived to the ripe old age of 22! She slowed down alot in her last year, havin gone through epileptic seizures and weakness in her back legs, but up until then she did pretty good. So I think grasshopper will do alright. p.s. is grasshopper a tuxedo cat? My Nikki is.

[davidpizzica]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by david p
[B]Enjoy Grasshopper as long as you are able Thai my blue point siamese lived to the ripe old age of 22! She slowed down alot in her last year, havin gone through epileptic seizures and weakness in her back legs, but up until then she did pretty good. So I think grasshopper will do alright. p.s. Grasshopper and my Nikki could be twins!

[kohala]

She's a Tuxie all the way! Thanks for the kind thoughts. Sorry I haven't updated here - I haven't been around much lately. She'd doing much better - silly me forgetting about the 9 lives thing!!! She's more frail, and occasioinally throws up a lot of water, usually motivated by a hairball! But she is eating, though it's been really hot here lately, so no one has been eating much!!! I think she'll be around for awhile, but I am watching the weak backend - could be the kidney thing, could be arthritis. My husband thinks it's her back that hurts her -?
But she's a lot more talkative and I'm not having to hand feed her, so all in all things look much better!!

Thanks again to all of you. I hope to start having time to get back into my regular posting - I used be quite the chatterbox online. I miss it!!!!

Grettings to all the furkids, and an extra sckritch or two to the Tuxiekids out there - You know who you (all) are!!

[jenluckenbach]

Biddy White Whiskers is accepting some of those scritchies as we speak! :D

It is good to hear an update about Grasshopper.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Kohala, this might be of interest to you in regards to Grasshopper's "stiffness."

Last weekend I took Tubby to the vet for his 6 month checkup. I mentioned that he, too, is experiencing "stiffness" and sometimes isn't too sure on his feet. I asked the vet how they check for arthritis and even if they knew he had it, what could they do for it. She felt along his spine a little - never indicated whether she thought he had it or not - and then prescribed Cosequin for Cats. It's a powder supplement - not a drug - that is supposed to help with their joints. It comes in capsule form and you can either sprinkle it on their food or do the old "open up and shove it in" method. ;) I've been sprinkling it on his canned food treat in the mornings, and it must taste good because Peanut has been finishing off Tubby's plate after he's done - which she has never done before, and she has traditionally not liked the food I give him. So if picky Peanut eats it, it must be good. ;)

It is a "supplement" though, and not a drug, so the directions say it might be up to 60 days before you notice any difference, so needless to say I haven't noticed any difference in Tubby yet. However, even though it's only a supplement, you can only get it from your vet. It cost me $20.75 for 180 pills, so it's not overly expensive. You mentioned that you had a great vet that doesn't necessarily require vet visits, so maybe ask him/her about this Cosequin for Cats and see what she says. Like I say, it's too early yet for me to give it a full endorsement, but you can ask him/her about it and see what she/he says.

Good luck and give that sweetie pie some skritchies for me. :)

[kohala]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach
Biddy White Whiskers is accepting some of those scritchies as we speak! :D

It is good to hear an update about Grasshopper.

Looks like we could start a whole series of Tuxedo sub-Categories - Looks like Biddy and Hopper both belong to the white-on-chin only facial variety - Hop also is a short gloves and midi-boots variety, with full ascot, and bikini (since it's on the tummy area only, does that make it a thong?)! :D :cool:

[RockysMommy]

In no way does Pepcid help the kidneys. It does not help increase blood flow to the kidneys. Pepcid is excreted by the kidneys, further stressing them, so you should only use it with your vet's approval.

Pepcid helps cats who suffer from excess stomach acid, which cats with chronic renal failure (crf) are prone to, by reducing acid production and thereby eliminating vomiting and nausea, and improving appetite. Vomiting clear and/or yellowish liquid and/or foam is a sign of "acid tummy".

Pepcid is not indicated for vomiting due to reasons other than excess stomach acid.

Be advised that Pepcid AC tablets now come in two different strengths - 10 mg and 20 mg. It's the 10 mg strength that you want to give 1/4 tablet of every other day, to start off with. You may need to increase the dosage up to 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet twice a day (with your vet's approval). Pepcid may actually increase vomiting in a small number of cats, particularly those with high bloodwork, in which case some other H2 blocker, such as Zantac or Tagamet may work.

For more info on feline chronic renal failure:
Tanya's Feline CRF Information Centre (http://www.felinecrf.org/)
Feline CRF Information Center (http://www.felinecrf.com)
Feline CRF Support Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/)
Sources for CRF Supplies (http://members.verizon.net/%7Evze2r6qt/supplies/compare.htm)

[kohala]

I don't give her Pepcid on regular basis, and she's doing so much better I don't give her any form of med at all. I give her the 2.5mg (1/4 10mg tab) when she seems to be off food, which she hasn't for a while.
At the time she was so ill, both my husband and I had been very ill, also (he ended up in the hospital.) This is not the first time in her life that she got sick when we had the flu. I am pretty convinced that (and encroaching age) were the primary contributors to her last illness. It's been over a month now.
Thank you so much for the links. She does have kidney problems, but not severe, apparently.