[B]Getting House insurance with dogs on the X list[/B]

[Dawn]

Okay-this probably doesn't concern a lot of you cause you either don't own a breed on the list or you are too young to own a home of your own, but how many of you have had problems getting good home owners insurance? Which black-balled breeds do you own?
I Noticed Anna66 you own 3 of those breeds-husky, chow and rottie. I own mixes on that list. Tyr is Chow,husky and wolf (3 breeds on that list) and Ginger is Shar-Pei, Rottie, and Shepherd (only 1 breed) I could lie about Ginger-but Tyr-it's too obvious. I don't know if they would actually check it or not...
Just for those who don't know-there is a list-it varies slightly-but the majority of insurance companies will not give you insurance if you own a dog that is either a mix of or a pure-bred on that list. Allstate is one of the worst with the longest list (9 breeds last year)
The list is basically as follows:
Doberman
Rottie
Husky
Chow
Pitt
Wolf-Hybrid
Akita
(i can't remember the name-that breed that attacked and killed that woman in California a couple years ago)

like I said it varies slightly-some have other breeds-but these seem to be the most common
(personally I am appauled that husky is on there!)
Anyway-what insurance do you use and/or how do you get around it-do you outright lie?

[ParNone]

I have State Farm and when I told them I had Cairn Terriers,
they asked me all kinds of detailed questions. Such as
a description of the breed and size, were they friendly,
likely to bite, etc. I'm not sure if that's just standard procedure
or if "terrier" in the name sends off warning signals. I
had no need to lie nor would I have. They took my word
that they were friendly and wouldn't bite anybody, which
they wouldn't, and I had no issue getting the insurance.

My concern would be that if you lie though and say you don't
have a certain breed and you do, then if something should
happen, like your house burns down, will they be able to get out
of paying, if they should discover you lied about having a certain
breed of dog. Would that not make the contract null and void
with them?

Par...

[Samantha Puppy]

Good Lord - I had no idea! Thanks for the heads-up as my fiance and I are just about to start looking into buying our first place. Samantha is mainly a Golden Retriever/Shepherd mix, so I don't think we'll have any problems but at least I'll be on my feet if a question about her does come up! :o

[Dawn]

Wow-they were questioning the Cairn Terrier?
Maybe they just automatically question about all dogs in the family.
I am trying to buy my first home and I actually had 2 companies tell me they can't sell me insurance because Tyr is part Chow! (I didn't even mention wolf)
Your concerns were mine as well, that is why I haven't been lying either. But it sure makes things difficult!
Samantha-you shouldn't have a problem-I know Goldie isn't on there and I haven't seen any with German Shepherd either.

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by Dawn
Samantha-you shouldn't have a problem-I know Goldie isn't on there and I haven't seen any with German Shepherd either. I hpoe not... if I get another dog - which we plan on doing at some point (as well as two cats) - will I need to alert them that we're getting more pets? Or do they just care at the point in time when you apply for the insurance?

Wow - I really had no clue that you had to let them know about pets and whatnot. Is ANYTHING uncomplicated?? :eek:

[Dawn]

I would think you have to let them know, their main concern I think is if there will be a chance that the dog might bite someone and they will have to pay out in a lawsuit. They consider these breeds to be more likely to bite because of the stats on dog bites per year.

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by Dawn
I would think you have to let them know, their main concern I think is if there will be a chance that the dog might bite someone and they will have to pay out in a lawsuit. They consider these breeds to be more likely to bite because of the stats on dog bites per year. What a bunch of crap. It's all due to the dog's upbringing. I want a Rottie, but my fiance and I aren't going to let it bite anyone. :rolleyes: Telling them what kind of dog you have is just as stupid as having to tell a health insurer if your favorite food may cause bad health later on. You don't have to do THAT, so I don't see why you should have to be on a blacklist if you have a certain type of dog.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Dawn]

So is life...welcome to the real world. Actually with life insurance-you have to say if you smoke or have had health problems-cause these increase the chances they'll have to pay out.
So they believe certain breeds will increase the chances they will have to pay out.
In a way they are only protecting themselves-I am not defending them- I don't believe they should judge the whole breed for a few- but unfortunately that is the way they think.

[Twisterdog]

Telling them what kind of dog you have is just as stupid as having to tell a health insurer if your favorite food may cause bad health later on. You don't have to do THAT, so I don't see why you should have to be on a blacklist if you have a certain type of dog.

But you do, in a sense. You have to tell your health insurer if you smoke or not, because people who smoke have a higher rate of certain cancers. You likewise have to report your family medical history.

You also have to disclose your driving record to your car insurer. There are several car insurance companies that will not insure you at all, period, if you have ever gotten a ticket at any time or if you own a radar detector, etc. People who own a car capable of going 200 miles per hour are going to pay more in insurance premiums than someone who owns a car capable of going 100 miles per hour.

Insurance agencies base their rates and exclusions on millions of pieces of data, compiled by actuaries. They use statistical formulas, and huge amounts of data over many years. It is all very scientific. They have to have proof behind their policies. If they are going to charge someone $1,000 a year for insurance, versus charging someone else $5,000 a year for the the same coverage, you can bet they are going to have statistical proof to cover their butts when the second guys squawks.

The data behind the "black list" of certain dog breeds exists, and its real. There are a lot of people disputing it, and I think they should. However, when pressed, the insurance companies have always been able to back their policies with facts about certain breeds and percentage of dog bites nationwide. They didn't arbitrarily pick these breeds, there is data behind it, sadly.

I just read a big article about this in Dog Fancy, including many tips on getting an insurance company to make an exception for your "black listed" dog. (I can't remember which month it was in, but the in one of the last two or three issues.) The number one thing that swayed insurers minds was getting a Canine Good Citizen award for your dog.

Having insurance is not a right, it is a priviledge. Just like having a driver's license or qualifying for a mortgage. Insurance is a business, just like any other, and they need to be able to do what they have to do to stay in business. I don't think it is necesarily fair that sweet dogs with good manners are refused coverage. I also don't think it is fair that I pay a premium for car insurance because I have a Camaro ... a car on the "problem for teenage boys" blacklist. ;) But that's the way it is. What we, as dog owners, can do is to make sure our dogs are well-trained, well-mannered, certified as good citizens or therapy dogs, and politely and professionally question this policy.

[Samantha Puppy]

I'm pretty familiar with the real world, thanks... this dog thing just surprised me a little. Guess it shouldn't have, this being the Age of the Lawsuit. Oh well. We'll deal.

[Dawn]

I have heard of the Good citizen certificate-but never see anything about it around here.
Anyone have more info on that, where to apply and what the test consists of?

[Twisterdog]

Dawn,

Here are some links:

http://www.akc.org/love/cgc/index.cfm

www.akc.org/love/cgc/testprocedures.cfm \

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0876054521/002-7910659-8900005?v=glance

http://www.dog-play.com/cgc.html

http://www.inch.com/~dogs/cgc.html

http://www.dog-breeds.net/Canine_Good_Citizen_Test_Information.htm

http://dogs.about.com/library/weekly/aa102002a.htm

[Cincy'sMom]

In a recent issue of Dog Fancy, the were saying the list of breeds some insurnace carriers will not cover is growing. Others that are on some lists not mentioned by Dawn include, Airedale Terriers, GSDs, and Dalmations, and mixes with any of these breeds.

I think the article is in my desk at work, so there may be others I am forgetting.

We have Nationwide Insurance and have not had any problems. so far. We also have CGC/TDI titles on all our dogs, so IF it becomes a problem, we may have a case to argue, even with two Dal mixes.

I really wish dogs would be judged on their own personal past, instead of the bad owners who give certain breeds a bad name.

[ParNone]

I wonder with one of the protection breeds how far a CGC
title would go with them, because it's one thing to pass a CGC
test in a neutral area vs how that same dog might react towards
anybody coming into their territory (ie. lil' kid jumping the
fence to retrieve a ball from your backyard).

Oz is a completely different dog in the backyard, then he is
when we're out and about. I seriously doubt he'd ever bite
anybody, but he puts on a good show of barking and I've
noticed that workmen that wouldn't think twice about coming
in my backyard with Murph and Maddie, won't, now that I
have Oz.

Par...

[Marie410]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
The data behind the "black list" of certain dog breeds exists, and its real. There are a lot of people disputing it, and I think they should. However, when pressed, the insurance companies have always been able to back their policies with facts about certain breeds and percentage of dog bites nationwide. They didn't arbitrarily pick these breeds, there is data behind it, sadly.


I agree with this, but I think the reason behind this is the people who chose the breed for the wrong reasons (size, strength and reputation) not the breed themselves. I have a rottweiler and and a rott/shepherd mix and although they each have distinctly different personalities, neither would intentionally hurt anyone. Their size simply causes problems sometimes when they try to be lap dogs or give hugs ;)

Many disreputable people choose a breed, pitt bulls are the breed of choice in this area, for all the wrong reasons. A big thing here in RI is dog fighting and drugs. Many people own these dogs illegally and bring them up horribly. Children get bitten or mauled, the dog gets put down and the breed gets another mark on it's reputation. I think the blame is being put in the wrong place. It rests with the owner, not the breed and perhaps the statistics they should be gathering should center around the owners rather then the breed.:mad:

BTW, I have Nationwide and my dogs were not an issue with them.

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by ParNone
I wonder with one of the protection breeds how far a CGC
title would go with them, because it's one thing to pass a CGC
test in a neutral area vs how that same dog might react towards
anybody coming into their territory (ie. lil' kid jumping the
fence to retrieve a ball from your backyard).


Par...

That's a goodpoint. I know when we took Cincy through the class, there was a woman in class with a Rotty/Dobe mix that was getting the CGC title in hopes that it would make it easier to find an apartment that would allow her dog. She was planning a move to California. It would be interesting to know if it did help her.

When we took Sadie and Spot through the class there was only 2 other dogs in it....a GSD and an Am Staff. I know the owman with the Am Staff also had a nd one at home....I wonder if she has had an isurance problems. If she joins our therapy group I'll have to ask her.

[lovemyshiba]

I also read the article in Dog Fancy, it's in the December issue, on page 13.
The list includes Airedale, Akita, Malamute, Pit Bull, Chow, Dalmation, Doberman, German Shepherd, Great Dane, Presa Canario (which is the dog someone mentioned that they couldn't remember the name of), Rottweiler, Husky, Staffie, wolf hybrids, and any mixes of these breeds.

The article states that the insurance companies have every right to do this. I know our insurance (which is State Farm) says no Dobermans, Rotties, or Pit Bulls (we have let to have told them about Jada). It gives you a few tips on what to do also.

I am taking these directly from the magazine article, as written by Gregory Dennis, J.D.

1) Contact your insurer to see if you can retain your coverage. For instance, if your dog is neutered or spayed; remains in a fenced yard or goes out only when leashed; has successfully completed socialization classes and obedience training, has an AKC Canine Good Citizen certificate; and has no history of biting or attacking, ask your agent to visit your home. He our she should examine your fencing and observe your dog's temperament and social skills, and talk to neighbors about your dog. Then, provide documentation of the above, and ask if the company will issue a rider covering your dog, possibly with a higher premium.

2) Shop around for other companies willing to issue a policy. If you find an insurance company in another state, confirm with your state government insurance agency that the company is authorized to sell liability insurance in your state.

3) Ask if your insurance company will continue to insure you while excluding your dog from the policy. (This is potentially risky. If you do not have liability insurance, an injury happens, and a judgment is entered in favor of the injured party, then he or she can collect on the judgment by garnishing your wages, bank accounts, property, and assets. If you live in a town that mandates insurance, you may be subject to a municipal court fine, jail time, and/or seizure and/or destruction of your uninsured dog.)

4) Before getting a dog, check with your insurer to see if the breed is excluded. If so, ask if some exception would permit you to get coverage (such as the actions similar to those described in number 1 above.

5) Consider contacting your state insurance agency and legislative representatives to report your attempts to get liability insurance covering your dog. Request changes in the state's insurance law so that owners of so-called "banned" breeds can get coverage.

[clara4457]

When I bought my house I first applied for homeowners insurance with Geico (which is where I have my auto insurance) but they turned me down due to Leo's breeds (Rott/Chow). I ended up getting homeowners insurance from Nationwide and although I have to pay a slightly higher premium - there was not any issue of not covering me.


The thing I wonder about homeowners insurance is do they factor in the statistic on how homes with dogs are less likely to get burglarized?

[Dawn]

The thing I wonder about homeowners insurance is do they factor in the statistic on how homes with dogs are less likely to get burglarized?

Good point, but I think they are more concerned about the biting issue and mauling.
Which brings another good issue to mind-what about the laws designed to protect people against dog bites - In our area, if someone trespasses in your property and your dog bites them-the dog can be considered an endangerment.
It depends on who trespassed, and what signs you have posted, and the dogs history of course.
But it is still unfair, because every dog is different when they are in their own home and you are not there.
I have a friend who's shepherd bit a teenager because he jumped the fence to retrieve a ball. He didn't really "bite" him because he didn't do any major damage-some scratches from his teeth and maybe a bruise-but he knocked him down. (let's face it -if he wanted to hurt him0he would have done major damage)
But the dog was confiscated and there was sorta a trial-the dog was given a "mark" against him and the people were warned that if he recieved another-he could be PTS.
They had "beware of dog" signs up, but because it was a "child" they said they couldn't be sure he could read the signs.
What a load!!

[anna_66]

Well as for what insurance company we have, we have State Farm (for the last 20 years).
No, I've never told them that we have dogs...they never asked, so I never told. But I can say that our insurance man has come on different occasions & seen that we had a rot & chow (a few years back) and never said a word.
So until I joined at PT I never knew of this being a problem:o

And as for husky being on that list:rolleyes:

[pitc9]

I don't know if my insurance man (a friend of our family) knows I have two GSDs, I had a GSD mix that bite an East Ohio Gas Man. I called him and told him, he said that an invited person that gets bitten, I will be coved for the 1st bite, then I get dropped if there is a 2nd. Well the Gas Man never reported anything, so he said that didn't even count. (Toby.. the GSD Mix that did this now lives with my parents)

But he did say as far as an person on my property that is NOT invited and gets bitten, as long as you have BOTH a No Tresspassing sign AND a Beware of Dog sign you are covered.

But each city, state, insurance companies.. etc..... they can all have different laws and stuff. So just as long as everyone know what they have to do, and how to be covered just incase.... then all is well!!!

All I have to say is that is someone comes in my (fenced in) yard with out us knowing it..... there crazy!! Buddy and Sierra are (just like there breed) SOOOOOOO protective .... I have to put them in a pen when we have people over!! (Sierra's a butt nipper...just ask my mom:o )