Who do you blame???

[Logan]

Do you blame the dogs? Or do you blame the mother who left her two year old child, outdoors, unattended??? :mad: :mad: :mad:

:( :( :(

2-Year-Old Mauled To Death By Neighbor's Dogs


ROEBUCK, S.C., 4:50 p.m. EDT October 2, 2003 - Authorities are investigating the mauling death of a 2-year-old girl near Woodruff Thursday.




Crystal Sinclair told WYFF News 4's Beth Brotherton that her daughter Mikayla was playing on a bike outside their Shaw Road home Thursday morning.
Sinclair said she went inside to get ready for work. When she came back out a few minutes later, Mikayla was gone.

Sinclair and a neighbor searched for the girl and found Mikayla's body in the neighbor's back yard inside a pen with 10 dogs, including nine Great Danes.

Sinclair said she believed that one of the dogs got loose, grabbed Mikayla, and brought her to the other dogs. She said Mikayla was terrified of the dogs and wouldn't have gone near them on her own.

However, Spartanburg County Coroner Jim Burnett said he believes that Mikayla wandered too close to one of the chained Great Danes and was pulled into the pen and attacked by that dog. Burnett confirmed that one dog was loose, but he did not believe that dog was responsible for the attack.

Burnett has ruled the death accidental.

Animal control officers have taken the dogs to the Spartanburg Humane Society as part of the investigation. The dogs' owner, Patricia Hancock, has been issued six tickets for failure to provide verification of rabies innoculation.

Spartanburg County environmental enforcement officers visited Hancock's home in March as a result of complaints of dogs running at large.

[Kfamr]

It is the "mother's" fault. :mad: :( She failed to look after her child. NO two year old should be left unattended, let alone outside. What if someone kidnapped her?

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by Kfamr
It is the "mother's" fault. :mad: :( She failed to look after her child. NO two year old should be left unattended, let alone outside. What if someone kidnapped her?

Agreed.

The dogs most likely did not hurt her intentionally...a child can easily mistaken for a giant squeeky toy.

[mugsy]

Make it 3 for the mother.:mad: :mad:

[joycenalex]

why on this green earth would any d#$% fool think you can take your eyes off a 2 year old? that woman is WAY too stupid to be a parent. such a shame for the child.

[Soledad]

I don't think the mother of a three year old mauled child needs any more punishment than this situation has already given her.

Was it silly for her to do? Yes. Should she have expected that ten dogs would viciously maul her three year old? No.

She made a mistake, but we all slip up and most of the time nothing this horrendous happens. Ya'll, we know nothing about these dogs or this woman so perhaps we should keep our harsh judgments to ourselves.

[Soledad]

I'll also just reinforce these lines:
Animal control officers have taken the dogs to the Spartanburg Humane Society as part of the investigation. The dogs' owner, Patricia Hancock, has been issued six tickets for failure to provide verification of rabies innoculation.


Spartanburg County environmental enforcement officers visited Hancock's home in March as a result of complaints of dogs running at large.


Where is the owner's responsibility in all of this? She did not provide rabies shots and allowed her dogs to run loose.

Perhaps everyone should look a bit further than mother vs. dogs.:rolleyes:

[Kfamr]

I see where you're coming from Soledad BUT -- You do NOT leave a two year old unattended!

She does not deserve punishment, no one does in this case. If she was to watch her child, it would not have happened. As it sounds, the dogs, with an exception of one, were in their yard.

Yes, the owner seems very irresponsible but, it could have all been avoided if they "MOTHER" was watching HER child. As I said, NO two year old should be unattended.

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by Soledad
I'll also just reinforce these lines:




Where is the owner's responsibility in all of this? She did not provide rabies shots and allowed her dogs to run loose.

Perhaps everyone should look a bit further than mother vs. dogs.:rolleyes:


True...but I still think the HUMANS are at fault (be it mother or dog owner), not the dogs themselves.

However, I still think that
NO two year old should be left unattended, let alone outside.

[Soledad]

I personally would not leave a two-three year old unattended. However, we have no idea what this town is like and just for how long the mother went inside.

Without that information I think it is rude, ignorant and hateful to be making accusations. We are all people who make mistakes. This mother has to live with this for the rest of her life, which is hard enough. Does she need the hatred of strangers? I highly doubt it.

Sometimes things happen that a horrible and cruel, but we need to remain human and look at things from all angles. Too often on PetTalk, I see people IMMEDIATELY siding with the animals and chastizing parents. It really pisses me off how quick we are to judge our fellow man. And ultimately, it's just really sad.

I think this world would work a lot better if we tried to apply the same amount of understanding and compassion towards each other as we do our pets.

[popcornbird]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :( :( :mad: :mad: :mad:

In my opinion, its somewhat the mother's fault, but more of the neighbor's fault. A 2 year old should NEVER be left unattended even if its just outside her house, but then again, TEN dogs should NEVER be left unattended either, wherever they are. Unless they are secure in a fenced area and CANNOT get out or go anywhere, they should NOT be left alone. I blame the neighbor more than the mother. The mother made a mistake, but the neighbor, knowing he/she had 10 dogs, and BIG ones at that, should have been MUCH more responsible.

If this was a typical neighborhood with homes close together, I don't like the idea of anyone having as many as 10 dogs to begin with. An animal like a dog is a HUGE responsibility, and if not raised properly, there is a possibility for them to become dangerous. Personally, if my neighbor had 10 dogs, 9 of them danes, I would move out. I wouldn't bother the neighbor or anything, but *I* would move out. Our next door neighbors have 3 dogs but they are a small/medium sized breed and VERY quiet and calm, so I'm not afraid of them at all, nor do they bother us, however, if they had 10 danes.............I would be scared enough of one dog that big! :eek: Either way, I think the neighbor should be held responsible. The poor mother got enough punishment that she would never forget. :( What a horrible thing to happen. The neighbor deserves to be punished for letting his/her dogs to get away with this.

:(:mad:

[Kfamr]

I don't think anything i've said was rude. hateful or ignorant, If you're talking aobut me anyways.

It IS her fault nonetheless, rude or not.

It could have been RATS that mauled her to death ( i'm not saying this is possible, just using it as an example.) and i'd still think it's the mother's fault. Like I said, What if the child was kidnapped? Who would I blame there? THE MOTHER. Having a child means you look after it at all times, you take care of it. Just like a dog, thus, it's not ALL of the mother's fault. The owner of the dogs should have looked after her animals as well. Still, the dogs were in their yard.

[Kfamr]

PCB -- Great danes are big gentle giants. There's no reason to be afraid of them. Unless of course, they are mistreated.

[Soledad]

If a child was kidnapped, I guess I'd blame the kidnapper. Funny logic, eh??:rolleyes:

The government should lock up all mothers who let bad things happen to their children. Oh, and no one mention a word about bad fathers or anything....:rolleyes: :mad:

[joycenalex]

soledad, i stand by my opinion, and i can respect your opinion. the woman has suffered a grevious loss. does she have my "hatred"? no, i do feel for her loss. did she show by her (in)action that she was a fool-yes i think so. your child is your most precious jewel in all the world, you just simply don't let your near infant child alone, period. if the child had fallen in a puddle outside and drowned, i'd still feel the mother wasn't a fit parent. if the child had wandered into the road, and was hit by a car, i'd still feel she wasn't a fit parent. anyone can breed, parenting is a skill and an art that involves 24/7/365 attention and this woman has shown her skills in this area are seriously lacking. again, why why the child outside without adult supervision, it's just plain deadly to remove your eyes from a small child. the mother has learned a very very hard lesson, and i'd like to hope other people learn by it.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Soledad

The government should lock up all mothers who let bad things happen to their children. Oh, and no one mention a word about bad fathers or anything....:rolleyes: :mad:

The father wasn't even a part of the story. Who knows if he's even alive or was even in the child's life.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Kfamr
PCB -- Great danes are big gentle giants. There's no reason to be afraid of them. Unless of course, they are mistreated.

Maybe for you there's no reason to be afraid of them, but I about get a heart attack just seeing one down the road. I was almost killed by a great dane who pounced on me when I was 4 (and no my parents didn't leave me unattended, I was playing at the beach right next to them), and I will never trust danes again. I'm in no way against the breed. I'm just afraid of them, and yes, if my neighbor had that many danes or dane sized dogs, I would move out.

[Soledad]

I consider calling someone a damn fool and stupid to be hateful, especially after they've just lost a child.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Maybe for you there's no reason to be afraid of them, but I about get a heart attack just seeing one down the road. I was almost killed by a great dane who pounced on me when I was 4 (and no my parents didn't leave me unattended, I was playing at the beach right next to them), and I will never trust danes again. I'm in no way against the breed. I'm just afraid of them, and yes, if my neighbor had that many danes or dane sized dogs, I would move out.

You shouldn't let one or two dog ruin it for the whole breed. Really. :( :(

I believe Nala is part Dane, the onlything she'd tear apart is a pile of poop. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :o

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Soledad
I consider calling someone a damn fool and stupid to be hateful, especially after they've just lost a child.

As if she's going to read this, right? :p ;)

[Soledad]

I feel so badly for those poor piles of poop. ;)

And, no, she's not going to read this but you bet everyone around her is going to be treating her the same way. When we refuse to have compassion for people, no matter how distant they may be, we contribute to making the world a meaner place.

[joycenalex]

Originally posted by Soledad
I consider calling someone a damn fool and stupid to be hateful, especially after they've just lost a child.
soledad, again, i do respect your right to an opinion. and i still stand my by opinion and choice of words. if you would like to make this personal, would you consider PMing me? respectfully, joyce

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Kfamr
You shouldn't let one or two dog ruin it for the whole breed. Really. :( :(

I believe Nala is part Dane, the onlything she'd tear apart is a pile of poop. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :o

Maybe if you read this more carefully, you wouldn't have had to say that. :p


I'm in no way against the breed. I'm just afraid of them

I'm scared of all big, strong dogs; danes, dobes, greyhounds, rotties (except Angus :p), etc. I don't dislike them, I'm just afraid of them. The send a chill down my spine. :o:o

Nala's an adorable dane though. She doesn't count. :p

[Soledad]

It's not personal. Just my opinion on your opinion.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Maybe if you read this more carefully, you wouldn't have had to say that. :p



I'm scared of all big, strong dogs; danes, greyhounds, rotties (except Angus :p), etc. I don't dislike them, I'm just afraid of them. The send a chill down my spine. :o:o

Yes, I read every single word in your post, but, you saying you'd move away if your neighbor had danes, is basically not giving you a chance to actually get to know the breed or learn about them.

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Soledad
I feel so badly for those poor piles of poop. ;)


Less scooping for me! JK! :p

[Logan]

I did not mean to start an argument by posting this today. I saw the headline on MSNBC (my local news section) and was appalled. I missed it on the local evening news tonight, caught the tail end, just the family members hugging and crying, at the end of the report. It is so sad. I know that the mother has to be suffering horribly for her decision to go back in the house and leaving the child in the yard. I don't know what the circumstances of the dogs were, but apparently they were chained or penned, and one was loose.

I blame all.......should have said that in my original posting. I blame the owner of those dogs, who obviously did not have them in a controlled environment. I blame the mother of that precious dead child for not being more careful with her two year old. I also grieve with her over her awful mistake.

About the area: This is a rural SC community, outside of Spartanburg, SC. Their homes would most likely not be your normal subdivision.

I will update you tomorrow with the latest reports if you like, which will likely contain more detailed information. You can check these sources: www.greenvilleonline.com (that's our local paper) or www.carolinachannel.com (Channel 4 - NBC affiliate, who originally broke this story).

Logan :(

[moosmom]

I think at this point, pointing a finger isn't going to bring the kid back.

But....WHAT IN GOD'S NAME WAS THAT MOTHER THINKING??? Leaving a 2 year old alone on the street??? She could've been snatched by some pedophyle. Instead it turned into a horrible tragedy.

*sigh*

[Tonya]

I don't leave my 6 year old outside unattended let alone a 2 year old! That is the mother's fault!

[popcornbird]

Logan, I just saw those news links you posted. So very sad. :( The little girl was adorable. :(:(

Now how in the world are they going to find out which dog did it?!? :eek:

:(:(

[RICHARD]

i vote for a 50/50 split.....



it's an unfortunate story and just a set of circumstances that end up in a 'train wreck'..



The only person we cannot place blame on is a two year old kid who's left the planet because the effing adults in her world are too stupid to insure her safety....as it stands now the kid's dead and they may just put the whole lot of dogs into the dirt......

The blame game is good for manual dexterity.....pointing fingers increases your hand strength but does nothing to rectify the situation...

Instead of blaming the breed of dog let's blame the breeding humans who brought a kid into a place where two years was entirely too short a time to spend on the planet.

and what about the twit who left her kid at home for 2 and a half weeks BY HERSELF while 'MOM' cooled her jets in jail????

Some people do not deserve kids, let alone animals.

[joycenalex]

it is possible to check the dogs' dna to determine which dog/dogs were involved. it is expensive and as slow as checking for human dna. there was a mauling that lead to a death here in columbus ohio and by checking the dna, the police were able to id the dog and arrest the owner for manslaughter here .
this whole thing is just so sad.

[Soledad]

I think that story about the toddler left alone in that house for weeks was one of the saddest things I've heard. I'm so happy she pulled through.

[Pam]

Amen Richard. I couldn't agree more. This story has my stomach churning as my little grandson just turned 2. I couldn't imagine either myself or my daughter leaving him out of our sight for one minute and in fact the thought of him being alone for one minute sends chills down my spine. God bless that precious little girl. My heart is breaking.

I was absolutely shocked also to read about the 2 year old being alone for 19 days. I think not only should the little girl be taken away from her stupid mother but the mother should be sterilized! She has proven that she is not mother material. Sorry if this sounds harsh.

[Logan]

Instead of blaming the breed of dog let's blame the breeding humans who brought a kid into a place where two years was entirely too short a time to spend on the planet.

Amen. Richard.

And Amen again to the fact that the other little girl, whose mother went to jail, even survived to have a chance at life again. :( I will admit that I haven't read much and am reacting on what I heard on the news, but when we saw her this morning, both Scott and I got so emotional. :(

[Twisterdog]

I would say to everyone here, "Let him without sin cast the first stone." ... or if you're not into Bible quotes, how about, "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones."

Parents: Can you honestly say that you never let your child out of your site for a moment? A quick lapse, a moment when you were distracted? That you never did anything at all, even once, that could have endangered your toddler? I don't believe that any parent on the face of the earth can honestly say, "I was an absolutely perfect parent 100% of the time with every one of my children." Things happen. And the fact of the matter is, that none of us know, from reading that short article, if this mother was one of the flaky ones who takes three hour naps and smokes crack while their kids are running unsupervised up and down the street, or if she was a good mother, who had a momentary lapse of attention. It has happened to all of us, but fortunately, the worst that happens to most of us is a momentary instant of panic and we kick ourselves for the next decade. Perhaps this child was the worst case scenario, sadly.

As for the dog owner, I think that seems a bit more cut and dried. She has been reported and cited before for not taking proper care of her dogs. It seems to be somewhat of a pattern, even before this happened. The most naive and dangerous thing any dog owner can say or think is, "My dog would never bite, would never hurt anyone, ever. He wouldn't hurt a fly." People with this attitude only show that they are naive and ignorant about dogs. Yes, dogs are domesticated animals ... but "animal" is they key word there. They are still animals, still governed by instinct; not reason, thought, morals and laws. An animal may behave a certain way 99% of the time, but there is always that 1%, where he will do something totally off the wall and unexpected, and sometimes dangerous.

And when you get ten dogs together, the pack mentality enters into play. This is something you don't necessarily have to deal with when you own one or two dogs. As anyone who has that many dogs, myself included, can attest - ten dogs together can alter the behavior of every individual dog, compared to how that dog will act alone. If one does not understand dogs and pack behavior well enough to know this, then that person should not own that many dogs.

If you choose to own a pet, any pet, it is your responsibility to make sure it is contained in such a way that it won't hurt or kill someone. This is the law, and it is also morally and ethically correct. If one chooses to own ten large dogs, one needs to make sure that the dogs are contained at all times, cannot escape, and in a yard that no one can reasonably get into. The same goes for a swimming pool, trampoline or construction site ... if you have one, and someone gets hurt because of it, even if they were trespassing, you will be blamed in the eyes of the law, for not making it very difficult/next to impossible for anyone to get near these irresistable nuisances.

I own ten dogs. They are small dogs, the smallest weighs eight pounds and the largest weighs 35 pounds, most weight about 15 pounds. They have never shown aggression towards anyone. Nonetheless, they are contained in a yard that could contain an elephant. There is no way they could get out. I spent thousands of dollars on concrete, privacy fencing, chainlink, etc. to make sure they will not get out. It is my responsibility to the community. I also have all my gates padlocked at all times, to make sure no one gets in. That is my responsibility to small kids, and to my dogs. Owning dogs is not a right, it is a luxury. If one has the luxury to be able to afford to keep, feed, vet and love a dog, one also has the responsibility to make sure that animal is contained and cannot harm.

[Soledad]

Thank God, Twisterdog, for posting such an intelligent and thoughtful post.

I'm certainly no Christian, but I've always loved Jesus' thoughts on judging others.

[Pam]

Twisterdog how sad that the owners of the dogs did not take the ownership of 10 dogs as seriously and responsibly as you do. If they did that little girl would most likely still be among us.

I still stand by my statement that I would NEVER leave a child unattended outside, not for a minute! This is a crazy world we are living in now and there is just too much that can happen. That said, I know the mother is heartbroken and will take the anguish of this to her grave and each day live with the "if onlys." :(

The amazing story for me is the second one where a woman went to jail and did not mention to a soul that she had a 2 year old at home. Thank God the little girl was resourceful enough to find food. That woman should never be allowed to parent again IMHO.

[dukedogsmom]

I agree. It's the mother's fault.

[Soledad]

Why does everyone think that the mother being there would have stopped it from happening? The girl was terrified of the dogs, and it is likely that at least one was loose. These are huge animals.

Threads like these remind me how the Salem witch trials began.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Soledad
Why does everyone think that the mother being there would have stopped it from happening? The girl was terrified of the dogs, and it is likely that at least one was loose. These are huge animals.

Threads like these remind me how the Salem Witch Trials began.

I don't. I agree with you Soledad.

Dogs are animals, and strong carnivores at that. They *can* cause harm if not trained properly, and are not supervised. The mother may have made a terrible mistake, but the blame, in my opinion, mostly lies on the owner of the dogs. Why is everyone taking the dog owners out of the picture? Is everyone who owns dogs an angel just for the fact that they own dogs? Seriously though, those dogs are big and strong animals, and they are ANIMALS. You cannot blame an animal because they cannot be accountable for following their instincts, but people who have that many dogs HAVE TO BE responsible enough, otherwise they don't deserve to have them Twisterdog summed it all up very well. I think the owners of the dogs should be punished on behalf of their dogs' action. Other pets such as cats, birds, rabbits, etc. normally are not capable of causing human beings much harm, however dogs, if left unattended and not raised properly, can cause harm, so they are a greater responsibility than most other pets. If you have a dog, you be responsible and take care of them, while making sure your fellow townspeople are safe. If someone cannot manage, they simply shouldn't have them. Poor child for having had to die such a tragic death. :(

[shais_mom]

The mother.
The dog owner.
But as case eerily similiar except it doesn't involve dogs. Last week here where I live a mother left her 4 little ones with a 9 year old brother. Ages newborn, 1,3,4. Well the 1 and 3 year olds ended up in the dryer with it ON!!!
So they ended up at the hospital transferred to a children's unit. They were alright except very bruised and the brother is getting counseling in a psych unit I think b/c there is a history of him abusing the little ones.
Yes the 9 year old knew better but the mom should NOT have left him alone with them.

[Shelteez2]

I think that there is no point in playing the blame game.
Yes the child should have been better supervise.
Yes the dogs should have been taken care of better. They shouldn't have been chained up and they should have been in a secure yard.
But the facts remain the same, the child wasn't supervised, the dogs weren't in a secure yard.
Instead of throwing blame around we should all step back and look at how we live our lives in regards to the training and supervisation our kids and pets have.

[Soledad]

You know what's also ironic about this thread? The fact that someone posted a "remember when we were kids" forward about the joys of growing up in the "old days" and everyone raved about how great it was and how paranoid parents are today.

Interesting. I think I might go look for it.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by Soledad
You know what's also ironic about this thread? The fact that someone posted a "remember when we were kids" forward about the joys of growing up in the "old days" and everyone raved about how great it was and how paranoid parents are today.

Interesting. I think I might go look for it.

:eek: I REMEMBER THAT THREAD!

I think I'm going to look for it too. :p

[Soledad]

Here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20678&highlight=remember+kids) it is.

Seems like lots of people had "unfit" mothers and fathers. :confused: :rolleyes:

[popcornbird]

YAY! You found it!

Looks like a lot of the previous generation people here were left unattended for like forever when they were little kids. This poor mother already has enough pain to bear than to be held responsible when she has to deal with the worst loss possible for any person to have. :(

[Logan]

In my opinion, what happened in this particular case could have happened just as easily 30 years ago or more. At no point should a parent ever leave a two year old child, unattended, outdoors. But with no fence, the thought of doing that is even worse! :(

I used the word "blame" in the question that led off this discussion. I truly wanted to know how folks felt about it, and that's what we've gotten. So please, don't get angry at people "blaming" because it is the question I asked! Some people would blame the humans, and protect the dogs. Some people would blame the neighbor, but not the dogs and not the mother of this child. I feel the "blame" should be distributed among all of adults in this situation, and yes, including the mother of the child.

[Cincy'sMom]

Just becuase I blame the adult humans in the situation does not mean I am saying the mother was unfit or a horrible person. Yes, she made a mistake. But for every decision we make, there is an outcome....cause and effect.

Becuase she left the child alone, the oppertunity was there for this to happen.

Because the dog owner did not properly train or restain her dogs, this happened.

Maybe it still would have happened if the mother had been outside. It doesn't sound like the pack of ten came tearing into her yard and grabbed the child though. At most, maybe one came, and most parents could protect their child from one dog ( obviously it may depend on that dog, but in general)


I think throwing in the thread about years ago is comparing apples to oranges...sure we ran the neighborhood with our friends, and our didn't know exactly where we were...but NOT at 2!!

I'm sorry if I sound harsh or judgmental, but I feel that no one wants to take responsibilty for their own actions anymore. "It's not my fault I killed my parents, they abused me." "It's not my fault I killed those people with my car, I was on drugs and didn't know what I was doing."

I know I am repeating myself, but for every choice we make, their is an outcome. The mother made a choice to leave the child alone and there was a horrible outcome. If hadn't been the dogs, it could have been something else...a kidnapper,a drunk driver, anything. But by leaving that child alone she provdied an an oppertunity for for that to happen.

[mugsy]

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
I'm sorry if I sound harsh or judgmental, but I feel that no one wants to take responsibilty for their own actions anymore. "It's not my fault I killed my parents, they abused me." "It's not my fault I killed those people with my car, I was on drugs and didn't know what I was doing."



Thank you Amy! This is exactly what is happening. As for this....I blame the mother because she wasn't supervising her daughter, especially when she knew the kid was terrified of dogs. I blame the stupid woman who owns the dog because she keeps Great Danes outside in a pen for God's sake. The only blameless ones are the kid and the dogs and now the dogs are probably going to pay for their stupid owner's choices with their lives. :mad: :mad:

[clara4457]

I think the frustration (to me at least) is knowing what will eventually happen. The dogs will more than likely be put down, and the owner of the dogs will be slapped with a small fine.

The mother of the child will have to live with her lapse in judgement for the rest of her life. Should she have been more vigilant? Yes, but how many times have you read things like "I only took my eyes off her for a second" or "I thought my husband/wife/boyfriend/friend was watching her" or "I thought she/he was asleep in their bed - I had no idea he/she had wandered into the pool".

Where I put the most blame is on the owner of the dogs. You are right Kfar - Great Danes that are properly raised are gentle giants, but any dog that has not been socialized or has been abused or neglected is capable of serious aggression. We teach our dogs to live in our society, which is a bit foreign to them. If we do not teach them - they will absolutely revert to instinctive behavior and protect what little they posses, even if it is a 4X4 patch of yard.

Actually I would like to correct myself - I also blame our lawmakers for letting people mistreat or neglect animals and doing very little to prevent it. How many more children will have to be hurt and how many more studies will have to be done that link serial killers to an early history of animal cruelty, before our lawmakers will realize that this is a serious issue and needs to be taken more seriously. Slapping people with a $200 fine for tying their dogs out and starving them to death seems like too little too late. And when will they start realizing that mandatory spaying/neutering will solve the overpopulation problem, thus helping to eliminate unsocialized and mistreated animals that roam neighborhoods.

I also don't think that having different opinions constitutes personal attacks. Having different opinions is what makes these forums so interesting to read. IMHO

[2kitties]

What a terribly terribly sad thing to have happened. In hindsight, we all see 20/20, don't we?

The victim here is a child. Any animal can be dangerous if left untrained. It is sad no one loved the dogs enough to teach them how to be gentle. The mother will live with this for the rest of her life- only she will know if that punishment is harsh enough.

[Twisterdog]

Also interesting in the middle of that thread is Karen's post:


Thinking about this, I realize that not everyone DID live to grow up. A friend's brother was killed when their mom's car hydroplaned and hit a tree. No airbags ... so he lay in a coma for a month then died.

I think every generation looks back on their childhood as "the good old days". Were they really so good, or is it just human nature to wax nostalgic?


I think if the child had been 12 instead of 2, people might be seeing this a little differently. There IS some blame to be laid with a parent whose 2 year old is outside alone, where perhaps there is not with a parent whose 12 year old is outside alone.

Keep in mind, though, in my original post on this subject, I said that none of have enough information from this short article to be judge, jury and firing squad for this woman. She could have been oh so guilty of horrible parenting - partying or sleeping while her child was alone unattended all day. But, she could have been a good mom, who took a quick ten minute shower while her two year old was supposed to be napping. Maybe the child got up and wandered out the front door an older sibling left unlocked, even though the mom had locked it before showering. We don't have enough information to judge her.

[Kfamr]

Twisterdog, the story states that the little girl was playing outside when her mother went back inside to get ready for work. It seems as if the mother WAS outside with the child, but, left her -- unattended, while she got ready for work.

[Twisterdog]

Twisterdog, the story states that the little girl was playing outside when her mother went back inside to get ready for work. It seems as if the mother WAS outside with the child, but, left her -- unattended, while she got ready for work.

Oh, I missed that then, thanks.

[tikeyas_mom]

Originally posted by Logan
Do you blame the dogs? Or do you blame the mother who left her two year old child, outdoors, unattended??? :mad: :mad: :mad:

:( :( :(

2-Year-Old Mauled To Death By Neighbor's Dogs


ROEBUCK, S.C., 4:50 p.m. EDT October 2, 2003 - Authorities are investigating the mauling death of a 2-year-old girl near Woodruff Thursday.




Crystal Sinclair told WYFF News 4's Beth Brotherton that her daughter Mikayla was playing on a bike outside their Shaw Road home Thursday morning.
Sinclair said she went inside to get ready for work. When she came back out a few minutes later, Mikayla was gone.

Sinclair and a neighbor searched for the girl and found Mikayla's body in the neighbor's back yard inside a pen with 10 dogs, including nine Great Danes.

Sinclair said she believed that one of the dogs got loose, grabbed Mikayla, and brought her to the other dogs. She said Mikayla was terrified of the dogs and wouldn't have gone near them on her own.

However, Spartanburg County Coroner Jim Burnett said he believes that Mikayla wandered too close to one of the chained Great Danes and was pulled into the pen and attacked by that dog. Burnett confirmed that one dog was loose, but he did not believe that dog was responsible for the attack.

Burnett has ruled the death accidental.

Animal control officers have taken the dogs to the Spartanburg Humane Society as part of the investigation. The dogs' owner, Patricia Hancock, has been issued six tickets for failure to provide verification of rabies innoculation.

Spartanburg County environmental enforcement officers visited Hancock's home in March as a result of complaints of dogs running at large.

I dont blame either!!!

I blame the person who raised the dog!!!..... I can leave a 2 year old around Tikeya and she would hurt it, because thats how I raised her!!!

[Dogz]

I would probably blame the mother for- Leaving her child unattended
and the owners for raising their dogs like that, etc. I agree with Kayann though, the mother shouldn't have let the child UNATTENDED.

Just wanted to say that I am not scared of any dog unless I am warned that it can be aggressive, and I LOVE Danes, Rottie, Dobermans, Pitt Bulls, etc.:)

[curiosityrats]

Originally posted by Kfamr
PCB -- Great danes are big gentle giants. There's no reason to be afraid of them. Unless of course, they are mistreated.

I thought that too. If I would "blame" anyone, I would be inclined to look at the dog owner. What dog would kill a child? Maybe they were defending their territory or being teased and not necessarily mistreated or anything...

Still, you would have to wonder about a person with ten large dogs not of a generally aggressive breed--that actually attack and kill a child?? Add onto that that one of these dogs was loose. Regardless of whether that dog attacked anyone, NO responsible dog owner would let a dog run loose, regardless of its breed or nature. Dogs and children both need to be contained and watched, because they could get hit by a car or stolen or WORSE. Is that a caring dog owner (or parent for that matter)? Add onto that the fact that this person, owning this many dogs, doesn't have vaccination records for them! It all sounds very irresponsible. Whether this person is accountable for a child's death, I don't know, but he is showing some real lack of responsibility when it comes to his pets. A loose dog can be hurt. An unvaccinated dog can get sick or will be destroyed if it bites someone...

Given the facts presented, I can say there is some question to this dog owner. I don't know the mother and child's situation so well... Is the child vaccinated? Is the neighborhood generally safe? How long was she unattended? Do the other neighbors watch out for the child? Has the child been left alone without problems before? We don't know, so I don't think we should judge. (Whereas, the story makes some obvious statements about the dog owner...)

It is NEVER the animals' fault. Animals rely on two things: training and instinct. If they are mistreated, their instinct is to attack or flee. They will do as they are trained or they will follow their natural instinct. In cases like these, it is generally all people involved are to blame to some extent. Animals do not plot. They cannot be expected to reason or follow laws. They can only be expected to behave as they were taught or in a way to defend themselves or follow instincts.

[carole]

I tend to agree that responsibility here lies with both the mother and the owner's of the dog's NB: I used the word responsibility not Blame.

However as a mother, I can honestly say I watched my children like a hawk, when I first moved into my then new home, it was unfenced, my son was only 16mths old, Do you think I could leave him to play un-attended? not on your life!!!!

I remember an incident a while back here, people around the corner had a family of four children, the youngest being about 18mths to 2 yrs, they had a gate on their property that could be closed, I happened to notice this little girl wandering fast down the road, not an adult in site, I had to run to catch her, she was way down the road, anything could have happened to her, run-over, snatched.

I grabbed her and took her back, her father never even said Thank you, and said oh the older kids were meant to be looking after her. GEEZ I was so annoyed.
Just the day before I had approached my neighbours , who had set up a paddle pool , left it full of water, on an unfenced property, they were unaware this was against the law, and emptied it, thank goodness , or else this little girl would have been instantly drawn to it, and we can guess the rest.

Neverthless this is indeed a sad and tragic case, and one can only feel empathy for the parents, regardless of the situation.

One more thing , just imagine how that poor dog owner is feeling right now?