I have a problem ... Advice?

[Lirathal]

Hi Pet Talkers,

Well I just don't know what to do. Last night I came back to my house, and was unpacking my car to my front lawn to carry it in to the house and all of a sudden I felt a gentle thud on my leg. I looked down and saw two huge green eyes staring at me. "Meeeew" was the response. I said "Hi Kitten!" and rub rub rub against my leg. I leaned down and pet her for a little while, then *jump* *cling* ... I had a grey furry attachment to my shirt. Instant purrrrrs. I stood there for a while and then looked at her collar. I found the address on the collar, and took the kitten to the house. I pounded on the door until I woke them. She answered the door, and I said "I found your Kitten, she is far to small to be outside, and you should probably keep her inside. She was almost killed twice." It wasn't far from the truth, my street is quite busy. So here is my dilemma. This kitten, yes kitten, should not be outside. It is too trusting and too young to understand what the big roar machines are on the road. To me personally this kitten should be inside and ... well mine. I will not let this kitten get smooshed by a car. There is no by-laws regarding "Cats" only "Dogs" so city enforcement won't do anything. I have warned them about letting their cat out and the Coyote warning that the city has out along with the bear and cougar warnings. My Question: Do I keep the cat as my own, keep it safe, and love it til it can't be loved anymore?

Regards,
A/V Dept.

[Lirathal]

Second Picture

[Lirathal]

the video is 22megs, if anyone wants to see her in action :)

[luckies4me]

I don't have any advice besides trying to convince the current owners that she should stay inside. If they do not want her, KEEP HER! :D


She's so beautiful!

[Uabassoon]

OMG she is so cute! As for what to do I'm really not sure. Because they aren't exactly abusing her, and some people do choose to keep their cats outside. While I would never let my cats outside, I know that some people do it. Maybe you should tell them that she comes to your house all the time and you have fallen in love with her and would really like to make her a part of your family and that they could come and visit her anytime they'd like.

[I Love Brian, Forever <3]

Definitely KEEP HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :D

[Cataholic]

Either you make a decision, or fate makes the decision. I would choose to make the decision.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Hey Nate ~

Tuff decision! :(

Questions I'd ask...

How CLOSE does Kitty live to you?
... NEXT door or a couple houses away - it might be a little unpleasant for everyone involved...
... Two blocks or a mile away - no question - she has a new home!

That she has a collar and tags indicates the "owner" has some feelings and concern for her (and will miss her if she just *vanishes*).

What did the "owner" SAY when you returned her?
And was she taken *inside* - or released back outside?

Any lil SkinKids involved with this kitten?
A small child may really miss the Kitten - regardless of your/our feelings for the adults.

You might want to monitor the situation for a few days to see how well cared for the kitten is - before you make any decisions.

And lastly -
What's the penalty for Kitty-Napping in Canada? :p
You won't be able to help her too much if you're going to be in the :eek: *slammer* for the next 10 years! :p

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

I think Phred has some great ideas, and I have to agree that since she had a collar on with tags, they definitely intended for her to be returned to them.

However, I also think Laura's advice (Uabassoon) is good too. They might say no way, she's our kitty, but they also might say sure, go ahead she's yours, and you'll never know until you ask. ;)

I do think, though, that since she had the tags, and you did return her once - so they know who you are - you'll definitely have to talk to them before just keeping her.

And I agree, she is way too small to be left outside on her own. :(


And where do we see the video? :D

Oh, and if it doesn't work out with her, now that you know you want a kitty of your own, I'm sure we could help find just the right one for you. ;) :D

[Lirathal]

Originally posted by Cinder & Smoke
Hey Nate ~

Tuff decision! :(

Questions I'd ask...

How CLOSE does Kitty live to you?
... NEXT door or a couple houses away - it might be a little unpleasant for everyone involved...
... Two blocks or a mile away - no question - she has a new home!

She lives across the street from my grandmothers house, which I am currently staying at, but as for _my_ house, it's miles away.


That she has a collar and tags indicates the "owner" has some feelings and concern for her (and will miss her if she just *vanishes*).

Coyote, Cougar, Bear, Nathan one of these things is nicer than the others. can you tell which one? (sesame street payed off :P)



What did the "owner" SAY when you returned her?
And was she taken *inside* - or released back outside?
inside, released in the morning



Any lil SkinKids involved with this kitten?
A small child may really miss the Kitten - regardless of your/our feelings for the adults.


not to my knowlege .. no kids



You might want to monitor the situation for a few days to see how well cared for the kitten is - before you make any decisions.

And lastly -
What's the penalty for Kitty-Napping in Canada? :p
You won't be able to help her too much if you're going to be in the :eek: *slammer* for the next 10 years! :p

Well .. for stealing a kitty, i don't know, but if I were to "find" her without a collar and take her in as my own, feed her, love her, and keep her inside wouldn't that be humanitarian?

Confused,
A/V Dept.

[Lirathal]

Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
And where do we see the video? :D


It's 22MB. I can send it over MSN if you are interested. '[email protected]'

A/V Dept.

[Soledad]

Take her!


This person does not care. I would just make sure it's subtle because you're the first person she will suspect.

P.S. She looks like my Bettie Blue....

[PayItForward]

I'm in two minds about this situation.

As you guys know, my cats are inside/outside and so I don't think a cat should be stolen just because he/she has some freedom to wander.

But on the other hand, even I keep my kittens in doors. Kittens need to be indoors until they have grown a bit and been altered.

But whatever you decided, please be direct with the owners, it is the only fair thing to do.

If they care enough to tag their kitten, how bad would they feel if she went missing. :eek:

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by Lirathal
She lives across the street from my grandmother's house,
which I am currently staying at,
but as for *my* house,
it's miles away...

I don't know, but if I were to "find" her without a collar
and take her in as my own, feed her, love her, and keep her inside -
wouldn't that be humanitarian?


This seems to be *leading* in one direction... :rolleyes:

So Nate ~

Just how long will you and the "LOST" Kitty be "hiding out" at GranMaw's Howze?? ;)

But please - *Watch* the situation for a few days...
(Unless Kitty is crossing the street - in which case *I* would take some positive action.)

The collar and tags say "They Care" - they just may be ignorant of what may happen with her running loose. At least have another conversation with her "folks" - try to get a feel for *how much* they care...

[Soledad]

I guess my problem with these owners is not that they let their cat out, but that they put her right back out as soon as a neighbor voiced his concerns about a kitten being out at night. Add to that the problem of coyotes, cougars, etc. and it seems to me like these people aren't being very smart.

[moosmom]

Well, considering the age of the kitten and the fact that her irresponsible owners seem to care less whether or not she gets hit by a car OR pregnant (I assume she's not spayed), I would say take her in. You'd be doing her a great favor and even possibly saving her life!!

Good luck and keep us posted.

[carole]

This certainly is quite a dilemma.

I am in agreement with PAYITFORWARD, but as an indoor\outdoor kitty owner, I would never allow a kitten to be outside, that is just plain DUMB.

To take the kitten would in fact be stealing, as I see it, and I don't know the laws in U.S.A, but here I am sure you could take someone to small claims court in order to get the kitten back, if that is what they wished to do.

However, leaving it, knowing its outside, and that it more than likely will be squashed by a car or eaten by some predator seems inhumane as well , its kinda a catch 22 situation.

What was the owner's response to your comments,?

Honestly I am unsure as to what I would do in these circumstances, I would be torn as to which is the right thing.

Perhaps talking with the owners more would be a sensible thing to do, and if you do decide to take the kitten, well good luck and don't leave your decision for too long , or it may be too late.

[Miss Meow]

The kitten's welfare is of most importance, so I'd do whatever's best for the kitten (but probably ring the animal welfare people first to see what the penalty is for taking the kitten ...) Maybe animal welfare could talk to the owners first about responsible pet ownership, then you could take matters into your own hands? :)

[Lirathal]

hmm.....

I woke up this morning and had my shower as usual. I was looking out my front door waiting for my ride, when what should I see, a little grey cutie crying. She wanted in her house, and the only thing that her parents were willing to do was leave a second story window open. I'm sorry folks but this little one can NOT jump that high. She cried and cried and cried. I opened my door and her little ears pointed to my directions and *bounce bounce bounce* across the road she came (thank god no cars). I scooped her up and held her close as she purred and kneeded my arms with her tiny paws. I held on to her until my ride showed up then I had to set her down. She looked at me as I drove off and I went to work.

*sigh*

She shouldn't have to go through this and neither should I. I am at a moral crossroads. This family cares enough about the animal to spend $6.99 on a collar, and write down their address on it. Does that mean the kitten deserves to not beable to get back in the house to it's food and litter? How about lack of affection? certainly a cougar or coyote wouldn't be as loving as me.

I'll level with you all. I'm looking for approval to break the law. I don't want this kitten to die, and I don't want her to be alone. I wasn't a cat lover until I met Naomi and even now I just "like" cats. For what ever reason this kitten just tugs at my heart, I don't know why. Does that give me the right to break the law? No, does anything give me the right? No. Can I call by-law enforcement? No, there is nothing on the books for felines, only canines.

*sigh*

I know the difference between right and wrong, but commiting a wrong to make a right is an oxymoron at best. *sigh*

Regards,
A/V Dept.

[Soledad]

I'll level with YOU. This kitten is out and far too young to be so. She may not be fixed, she may not be vaccinated. Cars are only one of many worries, especially in an area inhabited by coyotes and cougars.

This kitten is not out and about in an area free of predators, disease and traffic. It's out and about in a danger zone, despite your intervention.

In my heart and mind, there is no doubt that you taking her would be anything short of heroic.

[Lirathal]

a·ban·don ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-bndn)
tr.v. a·ban·doned, a·ban·don·ing, a·ban·dons
To withdraw one's support or help from, especially in spite of duty, allegiance, or responsibility; desert: abandon a friend in trouble.

Where I live it is against criminal code to "Abandon" and animal of any type. By leaving the kitten outside, with not access to her food, littler, water and protection overnight, is that considered abandonment in your opinions. Her owner is breaking the law. That would ease my worries, because rescuing an abandoned kitten is not against the laws.

*sigh*

A/V Dept.

[Soledad]

Sounds like abandonment to me...

[Fluffy'sMom]

I would keep her.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Yes, this does sound like her owners are abandoning her. I would try to talk to them again if possible to try to find out more info. They sure don't sound very responsible to me so I'd also be tempted to take the kitten in too. I don't want to tell you to do something illegal because I'd hate to see you get in trouble. Please keep us updated. Good luck.

[Lirathal]

I just talked to a cat shelter in my local area, and the bottom line conclusion they gave me was thus: Steal the cat.

The humane society will not do anything and rest assured the police won't either (even though there is law against what they are doing). Now the second part of my dilemma. If I got through the process of rescuing the cat, my parents will not let me have it. I am currently living with my Grandmother, and she 'doesn't care for them'. I'm currently between a rock and a very hard place. I can't in good conscience stand idly by and watch this kitten get pregnant, or worse die. I would feel responsible for that because I didn't prevent it.

What do I do?

[Soledad]

Take her anyway, those things likely work themselves out. If need be, you can rehome her. But leaving her on the street is just too awful.

[Cataholic]

Wouldn't your grandma let the kitten live with you, in your room, until you relocate ? I think if you tell her the way it is, ask for her blessing in rescuing this, act sad, morose, cry (oh, wait, you are male)....get her to see your tough dilemna.

[PayItForward]

I would talk to the owners once again and explain that this kitten should always have access to their house and about the vacs/spaying operation she needs before she is let outside.

Sometimes people just need to be educated.

If they are not forthcoming, tell them that if you see the young kitten unsupervised outside again, you'll be taking her to the local shelter.

But it is only fair to give them a chance to be educated, who knows they could learn to be good cat owners.

If you have tried to educate the owners and they let her out again, they have been fairly warned. Take her.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Lirathal
I am currently living with my Grandmother, and she 'doesn't care for them'.

Ok, so it sounds to me like this kitty is coming home with you, one way or the other. (yippee!!!) As for your Grandmother "not caring for them" well, I wouldn't worry to much about that because I know a lot of people who "didn't care for cats" or considered themselves "dog people" who are now adamant cat lovers - Noahsmommy for one (if I remember right, it was her husband's idea to get the first cat. She fell in love with them and now not only has 6, but works at a vet's office). So if what Cataholic describes doesn't work (because you're male and might not know how to pull it off right, ;) ) tell your Grandmother you will only keep her as long as it takes to find a good home for her. By the time that day comes, your Grandmother will have fallen head over heals for the little one, and will probably not let you take her with you when you decide to move out. ;) :D

If she had come right and said "No, I will not allow a cat in this house." then you'd be between a rock and a hard place. The way I see it right now, "doesn't care for them" means bring the kitty home already!

If anyone ever questions you, tell them the kitty was abandoned - matter of fact, too bad you didn't have your video going this morning when she was crying at the door and they ignored her. That would be all the evidence you'd need to support your case.

[Lirathal]

When my grandmother says "I don't care for them" that is her old country way of saying politely "No."

So between a rock and a hardplace I am. Nomilynn and me have been talking .. might beable to work out something temporarily there, or my sister might take it under the express agreement that it stays indoors and she does not declaw it.

I haven't seen kitten since yesterday night .. so we'll see when I get home if she is around.

A/V Dept.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Have you seen the kitten at all today?

[NoahsMommy]

How on earth did I miss all this????

You have to take her...I know its stealing...but, I guess you CAN steal for good. At least in this case you can.

It hurts MY heart to hear she wants back in her home for food and she's ignored. Nothing deserves that kind of treatment...she's a BABY and needs someone who does care. :(

[Nomilynn]

I will post what I know about all this..

Nate had to leave Vancouver on Friday night because he had a bachelor party (no, not his) to attend all day today. He will check on the kitten situation as soon as possible.

Just didn't want anyone to think this thread was being ignored :)

[kimlovescats]

Thanks for the update.... anxious to hear what happens with the baby kitty!;)

[Lirathal]

Hi,

Two things I learned yesterday. Exploding golfballs are hilarious, and being able to eat more than anyone else at the table makes for good convorsation :).

As far as the kitten goes, the last time I saw her was Thursday. I didn't see her at all Friday, so I'm worried. I'm probably going to head back out ther tonight and I'll look for her. That is all I really know at this point, but I'll update you more tonight or tomorrow.

My sister may foster it for a couple of months until I'm able to take her.

Regards,
A/V Dept.

[rg_girlca]

Oh gosh I hope nothing has happened to the little darling.
Fingers and paws crossed that you see her soon.
Maybe the people who own her had a change of heart and kept her inside. We can always hope can't we?

[Lirathal]

I saw the kitten this morning, and well she came bounding over to say hello :). Made me feel really good. I held her for as long as I could and then had to leave for school. What to do, what to do. Anyway ... I'm still thinking about the whole issue.

A/V Dept.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by Lirathal
I saw the kitten this morning,
and well, she came bounding over to say hello :) ...

and previously posted ~

"She (Kitten) lives across the street :eek: from my grandmother's house,
which I am currently staying at...",


Hmmmm...

This "crossing the street" to say "Hello :)" sounds *dangerous*! :(

What about setting up a lil Kitty Condo on GranMaw's back porch?
Wooden House Box or Igloo type shelter in a shady spot, Food and Water bowls, some Toys...
The idea being to encourage Kitty to hang out at GranMaw's place all day & night - to avoid the crossing of the street in search of love and companionship... ??

Prolly best to start working on an axplanation to GranMaw bout *WHY* there's
a new :eek: Kat Howze :p set up on her back porch...
but we kan figger out sumpin. :rolleyes:

[shais_mom]

I vote take her!!!! Keep her inside until you move or relocate!!! ahem!!! She looks like a real sweetheart. I can imagine that your heart breaks when you see her, mine would!

[Lirathal]

Originally posted by Cinder & Smoke
Hmmmm...

This "crossing the street" to say "Hello :)" sounds *dangerous*! :(

What about setting up a lil Kitty Condo on GranMaw's back porch?
Wooden House Box or Igloo type shelter in a shady spot, Food and Water bowls, some Toys...
The idea being to encourage Kitty to hang out at GranMaw's place all day & night - to avoid the crossing of the street in search of love and companionship... ??

Prolly best to start working on an axplanation to GranMaw bout *WHY* there's
a new :eek: Kat Howze :p set up on her back porch...
but we kan figger out sumpin. :rolleyes:

Allthough true she bounds across the street, I meet her out there to make sure cars aren't coming down, otherwise I'd stop them and grab her. Cars will stop for me, I'm too big for them not to. Don't worry, when I'm around she'll be fine ... I'm just worried about when I'm not :(

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

We went camping this weekend, and I saw a kitten scrounging around the campground. It was a little gray tuxedo, maybe about 4 months old. When I saw it I thought of you and this little gray sweetie. :(

I approached the kitten and it immediately ran. It was coming out in the daytime and looked a little dirty, so I think it's a stray, but it is quickly turning into a feral because I couldn't even get close to it. So I couldn't help this little gray kitten, but you can help your little gray kitten. I say take her, and deal with your grandmother, parents, whatever later. Even if the kitten is locked in your room she's better off than being on the street.

Or, at the very least do like Phred says and build a little house on the back porch and encourage her to stay there instead of crossing the street.

Poor little kitty. :(

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by Lirathal
Allthough true she bounds across the street...

Don't worry, when I'm around she'll be fine ...
I'm just worried about when I'm not :(

It's the "..when I'm not (around)..." times that worry us! :(

When you're in school or in bed - you can't act as Traffic Cop to
help Kitty cross in safety!

If you set her up with All the Comforts of Home :) on your back porch -
she may stop crossing the street and
just stay on YOUR side of the street full time. ;)

[L. Wayne]

It sounds to me as though they really do not care if they initmately put forth any effort for the kitten or not! In that case I would definitely keep the kitten, unless they come looking for it. Then in that case, I would give it back to them. But many times, like was demonstrated by an older couple, at the Wichita, Ks. animal shelter, they rely did not want a cat. Namely, I am speaking of Sammy cat, my little orange male whom I rescued early last month. And besides, the fact that the kitten came to you would indicate to me that you are the one whom it wants to live with. Who knows what kind of home the original owners have for it. It is obviously not up to standard for a kitten's residence.

.......wayne

[nodgeness]

any update????

[Lirathal]

Haven't seen her for almost two weeks :( When I do I'll let you all know for sure

[nodgeness]

I hope that means she's inside.

[carole]

ME TOO !!!!!

[Lirathal]

Hi everyone,

I'm happy to say I found Sidney today. That is her name. The reason I know this is because I talked to her mom today. She is very nice and we talked for a little while about the two kittens. I know that I have only talked about Sidney but there is another cat by the name of Sabrina too. Sidney is only four months old and is not spayed. Her mom will have that done in November. I asked more about their situation and it turns out that Sabrina was their first cat, and was strictly indoors and from there Sidney was brought in and they were let outside. When I asked how come they weren't kept inside, their mom said it was impossible, they love it outside. I said something like, "I'm just worried they will get smooshed" and she responded with, "Well whatever happens, happens I can't control that. I try to keep them inside at night, but when I call them and they don't come what can we do."

So I called Nomilynn and asked what we should do. She came up with the idea of asking all of the PetTalkers to come up with designs for a outdoor play place that I or her husband could build and maybe I could suggest it to them? So if anyone here has an architechural degree or similar is it possible to come up with some designs for a outdoor pen? Perhaps someone with some 3d studio could make a 3D design or something. If someone could help me out maybe we can save two loving pretty kittens from a bad situation.

A/V Dept.

[L. Wayne]

I am thinking of a chicken-wired in area that is supported by 4" X 4"s'. This is realatively simple to build and may extend according to the size of the permissable play area. Not knowing how large an area they want to devote to their cats, it is difficult to suggest anything other than that.

.......wayne

[K & L]

http://www.just4cats.com/

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/p394588bb31fbc7ab6ae524fced2a1721/fbd82b97.jpg

This is Miss Meow's kitty enclosure and seems easy enough and cheap enough to make.

Good luck! :)

[NoahsMommy]

If we can make this on our small balcony, ANYONE can make it in their yard.... :)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p536d48f055c661476e931b5a184224b2/fc2f9a8e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p85985ffe53f105984cc651a912a74c4a/fc2f9aa0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p13949c50e1e5bc91c9dfc4b6eb124cf7/fc2afc71.jpg

[moosmom]

Well whatever happens, happens I can't control that

THAT comment right there says it all!!! I say take the kitten and give her a loving, caring home.

STUPID, STUPID PEOPLE!!!!!!

[Barbara]

A story:
Three weeks ago a kitten came running in our house. He was about 3 months old, incredibly cute, a gray and white tuxie with medium long hair. He liked to be picked up, purred like crazy and was so cute I also thought about stealing him.

Turned out he belonged to our immediate neighbors who have a tabby cat 5 years old who is fine with going out and coming home. Most people here do not believe that you should keep a cat indoor.

We saw the kitty again 2 weeks ago. It came in our garden under the fence and wanted badly to cross it. I know that there comes a garden then with 2 dogs who are badly educated. They have already killed a rabbit. But they are in holidays right now and I started to get worried.

Now I can stop worrying: the kitten has disappeared (without the help of the dogs who have not been here at that time). It has not been found and the only thing we can hope is that someone like you, Nathan, stole it for a more protected life
:( :( :(