Declawing: against or for?

[In_love_with_cats]

Hello everyone

I'm totally aganist declawing because it is abusive and causing unnecessary pain and suffering with no benefit to the cat. It is a seriou surgery and with a painful recovery afterwards; it is removal of the claws, the last bone of the cats claw has to be removed. Declawing is actually an amputation of the last joint of your cats "toes". Also, part of the digital pad is removed and incomplete removal of the nailbed. Removing the claws makes a cat feel defenseless. Declaing changes their behavior real fast and their personality changes all together. Some cats become nervous or aggressive, often resorting to their only means of defense, is their teeth. They become biter; using their teeth as a only defense against prey and they become depressed. I have tabby that is declawed on all four paws, he was like that when we adopted him. I am curious as to what other cat lovers think about declawing. Please take the poll, thanks.

[PayItForward]

I think the majority of people on this board are against Declawing but this debate is an old one, that has cropped up numerous times.

[nodgeness]

@ the risk of everyone getting mad @ me I'll admit that I'm not 100% against declawing. To me it depends on the reasons. I'm fully aware that it is a hard surgery for the cats (which I hate) but if it's the difference between being stuck @ a humane society in a cage or in a loving home declawed, I think i would opt for them to be declawed. I have 2 declawed cats (front paws only). When I had the first one declawed I really didn't know anything about it. Then a year later I got Bernie and I was more educated & had a harder time w/ the decision. When I saw my cat Squeak walking around w/ cuts from Bernie clawing her I went ahead & had him declawed when he was neutered. I can say both of my cats are spoiled rotten, don't bite and are happy. They are 100% indoor cats! My cats haven't changed in personality, they are both very loving cats. I'm sorry if this makes people mad it's just my opinion.

[moosmom]

Nodgeness,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. As you can see, the majority is against it.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by nodgeness
if it's the difference between being stuck @ a humane society in a cage or in a loving home declawed, I think i would opt for them to be declawed.

In general I am against it, but I have to agree with nodgeness in this respect. There are soooo many kitties in shelters, that if the only thing keeping them from being adopted, spoiled rotten and kept in a loving home for the rest of their lives is there claws....well.....why not? I know lots and lots of cats that are declawed - mostly just the fronts - and are completely happy and have had no emotional repercussions from the surgery. So what I would do is try and educate the new kitty owner as to ways to train the cat to a scratching post and such, and I would do my best to keep them from being declawed, if it's an either declaw or we don't take situation....

I know this may not be a popular opinion, but there has to be some give and take in the adoption process or the shelters are going to be even more over run than they are now.

What really bothers me is the people who just automatically assume - Well, I got a kitten, gotta get it declawed - and never even consider the alternative that bother me.

Oh, and declawing in the back is absolutely totally unnecessary under any circumstances.

[Uabassoon]

I'm against declawing cats. Esepcially now that their are alternatives such as soft claws. In my opinion if you don't want an animal that scratches don't get a cat. That's what they do. I feel the same about people that debark their dogs. If you don't want a pet that barks then don't get a dog. If you really want a cat that is declawed then just wait until one shows up at the shelter, that's what my sister did. Her roommate wouldn't let her get a cat unless it was declawed and my sister refused to get a cat and put it through that procedure. So she went to the shelter and put in a request form, everytime a declawed cat came in they were call her and she kept looking at cats until she fell in love with one declawed cat.

[PayItForward]

Please Note. These comments do not apply to anyone who adopted a declawed cat or had a cat declawed before they understood what that actually meant


Originally posted by Tubby & Peanut's Mom
.........that if the only thing keeping them from being adopted, spoiled rotten and kept in a loving home for the rest of their lives is there claws....well.....why not?

Cats which are declawed, have posture/back problems in later back, causing pain (As cats need their front claws to stretch properly and they walk differently creating strain on the back). Claws can grow back in a uncontrolled way, also causing more pain. Not taking into account the inital pain of surgery and have to walk on your knuckles for life.

The ONLY time a cat should have any surgery is if there is a benefit for the cat NOT the owner.

Declawing is cruel and unnecessary act, which should be illegal like it is in England.

People who want pets without claws should buy a goldfish. I would rather a cat spends more time in a shelter than have an unsuitable home. If the new owner can't be bothered training their cat, do they have time to ensure it's other needs are met.

I understand that many PT owners have had pets done in the past when it was the normal thing to do but today there is more education about Declawing, this should not happen in the present.

The operation involves cutting off your cats toes, this would be like remove our fingers at the first knuckle. :(

But well done to Uabassoon's sensible sister, adopting a cat which was given up for adoption and already declawed. Might be an alternative solution for the time being.

[BastetsMum]

It is illegal in Australia to have a cat declawed for non-surgical reasons. I only know of one declawed cat and she had malformed paws so the claws would grow inwards instead of normally. She was declawed to stop her pain and suffering.

I am against it for cosmetic reasons.

[nodgeness]

Pay it foward in response to this
People who want pets without claws should buy a goldfish. I would rather a cat spends more time in a shelter than have an unsuitable home. If the new owner can't be bothered training their cat, do they have time to ensure it's other needs are met.


That's saying my home is unsuitable for my cats which is an unfair statement. My cats are both very happy & not having claws hasn't changed there personalities, habbits or stretching ability. You'd rather a cat spend more time in a shelter & maybe have to be put down then for an owner who would love him/her & spoil it rotten but would have him/her declawed? My cats needs are more then met, believe me! I'm sorry but yes declawing a cat is painful but they still can have very happy lives! As I said in my early statement w/ my first cat I wasn't educated but w/ my 2nd I was. Yes it was a harder decision but now that it's done, I'm very happy w/ how both my kitties are happy.

[PayItForward]

Each to their own opinion, I stand by mine.

I aim to educate people including yourself, in the hope that future cats are spared unnecessary pain.

Teaching a cat to use a scratching pole take 5 minutes versus a lifetime of potential painful problems. Even inside cats need their claws to exercise & stretch correctly.

I find my cats love their cat tree (with rope scratching posts included)

I have explained the suffering which can result from this unnecessary operation, maybe you will try introducing a scratching pole before Declawing any future cats.

I know which option the cats would choose, their claws intact AND a loving home with a scratching pole.

[catlady1945]

The oldest of our four cats, Patty, is declawed. I am not in favor of declawing, but as far as behavioural problems go, I don't think declawing has anything to do with making a cat more aggresive. Patty is our most well-adjusted cat, and is strictly indoors. She doesn't know she has no claws and uses the scratching post - and one of the chairs, just as the other cats do.

[cubby31682]

My cat is also declawed. He doesn't know he is decalwed either. He still scratches the hamper and the bed at night. He has always been a biter even before he got declawed. If I had my own home and not in an apartment, I would not have got him declawed. His attitude hasn't changed at all. He still likes his lovings (only when he wants them) he gets all the toys he can play with and all the food he cares to eat. He is a very happy cat. I am not saying that I was right or wrong to get him declawed. But when you live in an apartment and it is part of the contract to have your cat declawed, I would rather have him declawed than to be put to death which would have happened to him. My cat isn't good with children, he likes to be left alone and he isn't very people friendly. I knew all this about him before I got him, knowing that he would have been declawed before I got him. I had it done early enough for it not to bother him as much as it would with an older cat. Cubby can still stretch out as far as he can. He still has his back claws and I would never have them removed unless I had no other choice such as if they started growing wrong or what ever else could happen. I didn't have it done to spare my furniture or anything else. And I do have a scratching tree which he will still use. No matter what, what is done is done. And I can't change what has been done. Like I said if I had a house of my own he wouldn't have been declawed.

Katie

[Uabassoon]

When a declawed cat "scratches" on something like furniture, it doesn't mean that they think they have claws. Cats do that to mark their scent on things, the same way they rub their face up against things to get their scent on it.

[NoahsMommy]

You REALLY need to check this website out: www.declawing.com

PayItForward...I agree 250% with what you've said. :D :D :D

I would NEVER, EVER, EVER, (um....a million times EVER) declaw a cat. I'd rather be declawed myself than inflict that sort of abuse onto a defenseless animal.

Now...after I've said all that, the reason I feel this way is because I'm educated on the effects of declawing.

Wolflady has an excellent story for why NOT to declaw. Karen, can you share Scooter's story here?

OK, one more thing. We have only one cat with razor claws that would hurt our furnature (if he tried, but is TRAINED not to). So, he has Soft Paws. More because he likes to sit on my lap in the restroom and I was getting too many cuts when he slid off.

Its just apart of responsible pet "ownership"....

OK...all done! ;)

[todd]

Against

[Desert Arabian]

When Sammy is 6 months old, he is getting neutered and declawed, only fronts of course.

Our vet clinic has a new way of declawing cats. It is laser declawing, which causes 90% less pain than the tradional way, and doesn't require weeks of recovery, in fact only about 2 days. Instead of tearing and ripping out the knuckle and claw, it slices off the claw.

Here is an informational site about laser declawing if anyone care to read: The Laser Declaw Procedure (http://www.petdr.com/declawdesc.htm)

This is Sammy's favorite activity to do with his claws:
http://members.aol.com/OrliBloom177/climbing.jpg

[Uabassoon]

YLL please read this site before you declaw your poor cat. While laser surgery does reduce complication DURING the surgery the long term affects are still the same. And how would you like it if your fingers were amputated past the first knuckle. I mean don't worry with advances in technology you won't feel it as much. I mean seriously.. I can't believe you would do that to your pet. If you don't want a pet that scratches get a fish!


Declawing (http://declaw.lisaviolet.com/declawdrjean2.html)

There is a reason why declawing is outlawed in most countries. Because it's cruel! Why not invest in soft paws or something less cruel.

[Desert Arabian]

I've already seen that website.


If you don't want a pet that scratches get a fish!
No. I don't like fish.

[Uabassoon]

Sorry YLL for the rudeness of that post, this is just something that I feel strongly about. But I hope that you have at least tried some other alternatives such as Soft Paws or the other alternatives out on the market. I know that I can not change your (and your mom's) descision, but just realize that a better procedure doesn't mean that your cat won't suffer later. But like I said I do apologize for being rude earlier. But I'm sure if I said I was going to get a dog and debark it people would get pretty upset too.

[Soledad]

I don't see any reason to declaw a cat, especially when training and Soft Paws have not been attempted.

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by Soledad
I don't see any reason to declaw a cat, especially when training and Soft Paws have not been attempted.

Why don't you come over to my house and try and hold a 4 month old kitten still while you glue on rubber guards. Good luck!! You'd have the guards in your hair and the glue splattered on the wall. Trust me, I know Sammy well, since he lives in my house.

And try and get the kitten to listen to you when its concept is "gotta move gotta play", and would never listen to you even if you gave it 100 pounds of mice.


Sorry YLL for the rudeness of that post, this is just something that I feel strongly about. But I hope that you have at least tried some other alternatives such as Soft Paws or the other alternatives out on the market. I know that I can not change your (and your mom's) descision, but just realize that a better procedure doesn't mean that your cat won't suffer later. But like I said I do apologize for being rude earlier. But I'm sure if I said I was going to get a dog and debark it people would get pretty upset too

Oh, that's ok. I understand that this issue means a lot to you. I am sure I would be the same way if I were in your boots. :)

Kinda like my posts in the American Kestrel thread in Pet General....I got upset with that ordeal!

[Uabassoon]

Oh, that's ok. I understand that this issue means a lot to you. I am sure I would be the same way if I were in your boots.

Exactly :)

[Kater]

You say you have read the websites. But have you tried the methods suggested? You don't need to have Sammy "listen" to you about anything.


Encourage Kitty to use her post with clever enticements. Feed her and play with her by the post. Rub dried catnip leaves or powder into it. Make all the associations with the post pleasurable. Reward her with a favorite treat when she uses it. Have her chase a string or a toy around the post or attach toys to it, which will result in her digging her claws into it. Eventually she will learn to love it and regard it as her own. It's also a good idea to put a post where Kitty sleeps. Cats like to scratch when they awaken, especially in the morning and the middle of the night. If space permits, a scratching post in every room of the house is a cat's delight. The most important place is the area of the house in which you and Kitty spend the most time. I have many sisal posts in my house, yet often in the morning my cats line up to use the one in the living room.

If at first Kitty is reluctant to give up her old scratching areas, there are means you can use to discourage her. Covering the area with aluminum foil or double-sided tape is a great deterrent. These surfaces don't have a texture that feels good to scratch.

Remember too that Kitty has marked her favorite spots with her scent as well as her claws. You may need to remove her scent from the areas you want to distract her away from. You will find pet odor removers in pet stores and many supermarkets as well.

Cats have an aversion to citrus odors. Use lemon-scented sprays or a potpourri of lemon and orange peels to make her former scratching sites less agreeable to her.

If Kitty still persists in scratching the furniture, try squirting her with a water gun or a spray bottle set on stream. Another option is a loud whistle or other noise-maker. You must employ these deterrents while she is scratching for them to be effective. The point is to establish an aversion to the spot you don't want her to scratch.
http://www.declawing.com

Teaching your kitty to use a scratching post is much cheaper than declaw surgery! Many many many cat owners have taught kitties to use scratching posts; I really don't think Sammy is any kind of special exception. In fact, you are at an advantage because he is still young. Instill the good habits now!!!

[aly]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
When Sammy is 6 months old, he is getting neutered and declawed, only fronts of course.

Our vet clinic has a new way of declawing cats. It is laser declawing, which causes 90% less pain than the tradional way, and doesn't require weeks of recovery, in fact only about 2 days. Instead of tearing and ripping out the knuckle and claw, it slices off the claw.

Here is an informational site about laser declawing if anyone care to read: The Laser Declaw Procedure (http://www.petdr.com/declawdesc.htm)

This is Sammy's favorite activity to do with his claws:
http://members.aol.com/OrliBloom177/climbing.jpg

Hi Laura! I hope you don't get mad at me for saying this because you know I love you and your mom dearly!

Even though laser surgery is less painful than chopping off the toes with a knife, it is still amputation and there is still pain involved. There could also be several behavioral problems that come up after being declawed. Not every single declawed cat will get behavioral problems after the surgery, but there is a good chance that they will.

Sammy is a young kitten still and can be trained to scratch in the proper places. I admit I haven't read this thread yet so I'm not sure what you've tried yet. Actually, I guess I will read it all before I continue with my reply. But, please, do some research on it. Or if you have already, then do more. I hope that you guys will change your minds :(

[aly]

I totally think you guys should try Soft Paws! I know how squiggly and wiggly 4 month old kitties are - I've got several right now and have fostered tons! Maybe for the first application, your vet can help you and give you tips. It really helps if one person scruffs the kitty and another person puts the Soft Paws on.

Have you also provided plenty of scratching posts with catnip sprinkled on? And do you use a water gun when he scratches where he shouldn't?

Is Dudley declawed?

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by nodgeness
That's saying my home is unsuitable for my cats which is an unfair statement. My cats are both very happy & not having claws hasn't changed there personalities, habbits or stretching ability. [/B]
This is a direct quote from the excellent website link above (:D Cheers Noah's Mommy for the site link. A very good friendly with useful information.)

The Cat’s Claws
Unlike most mammals who walk on the soles of the paws or feet, cats are digitigrade, which means they walk on their toes. Their back, shoulder, paw and leg joints, muscles, tendons, ligaments and nerves are naturally designed to support and distribute the cat's weight across its toes as it walks, runs and climbs. A cat's claws are used for balance, for exercising, and for stretching the muscles in their legs, back, shoulders, and paws. They stretch these muscles by digging their claws into a surface and pulling back against their own clawhold - similar to isometric exercising for humans. This is the only way a cat can exercise, stretch and tone the muscles of its back and shoulders. The toes help the foot meet the ground at a precise angle to keep the leg, shoulder and back muscles and joints in proper alignment. Removal of the last digits of the toes drastically alters the conformation of their feet and causes the feet to meet the ground at an unnatural angle that can cause back pain similar to that in humans caused by wearing improper shoes.
----------------------------------------

Please can nodgeness & YLL read the site Noah'smommy linked to.

Dear YLL,
YLL as you are the only one planning to have sweet Sammy operated on shortly, I'll address these comments to you.

Please provide a scratching post for him now. My kittens were using their post from 6 & 8 weeks respectively. The only furniture they scratched was my bed, which was my fault (I locked them upstairs without access to the scratching post.) So I bought a second smaller post for upstairs and now they don't scratch anything.

Maybe if you can show your mum that Sammy doesn't need this operation, she'll be happy to cancel it.

Alternatively try softclaws pads but only if Sammy is inside totally (I assume this must be the case as declawed cats are defensless outside)

Also some cats change personality after this operation (though the medical professionals don't count this as a direct connection ?!?) but if Sammy doesn't have this operation there is nothing to worry about.

Please keep us informed of your thinking. I'll be happy to debate, not argue ;) with you. I'll find the answers to any of your queries, in order to change youir mind and save sweet Sammy from unnecessary pain.

[Chinadoll]

Adding my 2 cents...

I would highly recommend other alternatives before declawing. Declawing is solely for the benefit of humans and not in the best interest of the cat.

It isn't very hard to train your cat to a scratch post. All it requires is a little time and a squirt bottle. It also helps to have a scratch post/scratching area in every room your cat frequent until they get the hang of it.

It also helps to keep your cat's claws clipped regularly. Clipping/trimming the claws will greatly decrease the damage when your cat does scratch. Soft Paws is also an option.

At 4 months old you kitty is still a baby and learning. You wouldn't remove a dog's teeth because as a puppy he chewed on everything(meaning furniture shoes etc..)? If your kitty started biting as a form of play, you wouldn't remove his teeth, would you? Instead you'd teach the kitty that's not an acceptable form of play.

I have 3 cats all of which came to me between the age of 5 to 12 weeks. With a little effort on my part, they were all trained to a scratch post within the first few weeks. They were all fixed at 6 months and all get their nails clipped every other week.

Please reconsider declawing. There are other options...even for the wildest of kitties, he's still young enough to be trained.
JMHO

[bisi.cat]

Originally posted by PayItForward

I know which option the cats would choose, their claws intact AND a loving home with a scratching pole.

I am glad that declawing is illegal over here...but on the other hand it's sad that we need a law for this...

Cats are born with claws!!!...so I guess HAVING CLAWS is the way it was meant to be!!!

[All Creatures Great And Small]

Ok, first things first - Laura (UA), your sig is hilarious; I about fell off my chair when I saw it. :D

On to the declawing debate - Sammy's declawing is NOT a done deal. We got information from the vet about it as part of the standard kitten checkup, and I have been mulling my options since I have until October when the Saminator will be 6 months old and ready for his neutering. (I had decided that the results of my decision would be a personal matter in any case - kind of like the "don't ask, don't tell" policy in the military.) So far he has done very little damage with his claws, other than annihilating the sofa in the office here and giving me a few little "love scratches" from time to time. When he play-fights with us, he does not use his front claws at all (he doesn't need to; his TEETH are what are deadly :D ). I've read all about the Soft Paws, and have been considering those also. I've been able to trim Sammy's claws from time to time, and some days he stands still for it, some days he doesn't.

That said, I take no offense at all of the passionate statements made on this thread, because it shows the love and concern you all have for kitties, which is wonderful.

[Cataholic]

ACGAS and YLL,

I have six cats, all of them declawed, at my request. I have no one to blame it on but me. Having said that, I will tell you I have changed my position, based on education, and tolerance. I would not declaw my next cat...which, because of Binx and Tex's health, and Minnie's reclusivenss, will not be anytime in the near future. So, I guess it is easy for me to sit here and tell you what I won't be doing in the future, after having done it in the past. In fact, I imagine my post might be a little bit unbelievable. I feel hypocritical. I can only tell you, after education, I have changed my mind. I am against declawing, and can assure you, the last thing I ever want to do is 'eat my words'...I won't do it.

I ask that you really really educate yourself, and think things through carefully (as I know you will).

Johanna


P.S.- I am also against docking, cropping, breeding, etc!!!

[nodgeness]

Have read all those links but I thank you for the suggestion.

Again, I don't care where the quote came from about an unsuitable home. My home is very suitable for my cats(not that i have to justify). Both are very happy & are the queen & king of the palace.

An unsuitable home for an animal is a place where the animal isn't loved, cherished,or respected.

[Amber]

De-Clawing a cat is the owners Choice. am I right?
Maggie is de-clawed and is a indoor cat.

[moosmom]

Cataholic quotes:


I guess it is easy for me to sit here and tell you what I won't be doing in the future, after having done it in the past. In fact, I imagine my post might be a little bit unbelievable. I feel hypocritical. I can only tell you, after education, I have changed my mind. I am against declawing, and can assure you, the last thing I ever want to do is 'eat my words'...I won't do it.

When Mollie Rose and Casey (RB, 2002) were younger, I got new furniture and found they were scratching it. I asked my vet what to do (she is no longer my vet) and she IMMEDIATELY saw dollar signs and told me to declaw. Being as naive as I was, I listened to her. At the time, they were my only 2 cats. I was very fortunate that my cats didn't have behavioral problems or any other kinds of problems related to declawing. I have since been adopted by 6 others. The 6 are fully intact. It was only after working in animal rescue for over 7 years that I was educated in the procedure, and totally changed my opinion.

Like Johanna said, I also feel hypocritical. But it was only after being educated that I realized how much pain I caused my 2 furbabies :( Every one of my 6 other kitties has been trained to use the scratching posts (I have 2 cat trees and various posts around my apartment for them to use). I would NEVER, EVER declaw ANY of my cats again.

I totally agree that the procedure should be outlawed.

Hard lesson learned. :(

[PayItForward]

Please Note. These comments do not apply to anyone who adopted a declawed cat or had a cat declawed before they understood what that actually meant

I think I get upset, as I don't see the point of declawing. It is expensive for the owner and painful for cat, a classic LOSE LOSE situation. :(

What is the big deal, about training a cat to use a scratching post?

What have these cats done to deserve this treatment ?

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by PayItForward
[i]
What have these cats done to deserve this treatment ?



It is these sort of statments that make me cry. The answer is, of course, nothing. I can't defend what has happened, but, can work to prevent it in the future. That is why I posted my situation. PIF- I know you aren't directing this to me, personally. I wish I had met you 10 years ago...really, I do. It would have made me stop and think.

[PayItForward]

Please don't be upset. :(

You are right I wasn't getting at you at all, I know you love your beautiful cats. (So do I.)

It just was the normal thing to cat a cat declawed years ago, you didn't understand the procedure, nobody did. Thats why I stuck that statement at the top of a couple of my posts, I didn't mean everyone who had a declawed cat was a monster just that we need to spread the word today.

In fact Cataholic I'm so proud of you. You stood up, admitting you have changed your mind about this subject, in light of more information.

That doesn't make you a hypocritic, it shows what a strong person you are. Weak people refuse to open their eyes to the truth and cling to past opinions pointlessly.

My heart breaks for people who are told by their vets, that it is a simple op etc. with little side effects. I wish the cats could give their side.

The important thing is that we educate people today to stop todays kitties from going though this ordeal. Maybe the USA will make it illegal ;)

[PayItForward]

I was lucky enough to be brought up in a country where declawing is illegal.

This is why I feel so strongly about this subject but I realise it must be difficult to re-educate yourself in a country where declawing is the norm.

[Kater]

Originally posted by PayItForward
In fact Cataholic I'm so proud of you. You stood up, admitting you have changed your mind about this subject, in light of more information.

That doesn't make you a hypocritic, it shows what a strong person you are. Weak people refuse to open their eyes to the truth and cling to past opinions pointlessly.

I agree. Cataholic, you are no hypocrite.

[NoahsMommy]

First...YLL....if you can train your kitten to walk on a leash and harness, YOU CAN learn to put Soft Paws on him. YOU CAN!!!

You can take your cat to his vet with a box of Soft Paws and the techs will show you how to hold Sammy and how to do all that.

We put Soft Paws on an ABY!!! I"m sure you've all read about Aby's and their nature...well, I did it and I'm a huge baby when it comes to restraining our cats. I will say that it takes a few minutes to do, we let him go for a few seconds and play with him, then grab him again to glue another couple on.

ITS EASY, I SWEAR! If I can pill and put eye goo in Hermie...you can put Soft Paws on Sammy. If I was any where near you, I'd come over and do it myself. It just takes time and practice. My advice woud be to have your vet do the initial application and you only add them as they fall off. It'll give you practice.

PLEASE reconsider. It makes me ill to think that precious little guy will have to be put through that.

(Um...can I get the "I'm only saying this cause I care" pass too? I know my views are strong and maybe pushy, but I can't even tell you how strongly I feel about this subject...) :)

Cataholic...you're awesome! You are so NOT a hypocrite. :D It takes a bigger person to learn from their mistakes. :)

[Uabassoon]

My advice woud be to have your vet do the initial application and you only add them as they fall off. It'll give you practice.

My friends cat Pookie is a total terror (what orange tabby isn't :) ) Her vet charges $1 per claw to put the soft paws on and that includes the price of the soft paw. He doesn't charge her anything additional and she doesn't even have to worry about ordering them or anything. She just takes Pookie in, and the tech relaces the missing ones for $1 a piece.


Laura (UA), your sig is hilarious; I about fell off my chair when I saw it.

Thanks!

[Pattycat]

My vote is for sure against declawing and I would never choose that for my boys, or future kids. My guys all came to me pretty full grown, so I did not have the luxury of early training with a scratching post. Over the years I've had every kind of post and the guys will use them. That doesn't stop them from using the furniture and carpets though. They scratch everything. Oh well. Like someone mentioned, that's what cats do. If you visit my house, you will get cat hair on your clothes and you will have to look at shredded furniture! I've learned it takes a good couple years to really RUIN the piece..smile. The boys know very well they are not supposed to scratch and stop immediately if they're caught, but there's no stopping when we're not around, and they will sneak in their scratches at night.
I have never clipped their sharp little claws. For some reason, my thinking was that would make them scratch even more, to get them sharp again. Am I totally off base in this belief? Not that at 13, 14 and 6 they are going to start letting me clip them, but I'm curious.

[shais_mom]

Kylie came to me declawed. I never really thought much about it before I got a cat. Now that I have been educated, no I wouldn't declaw.
Do people at the end of their rope, that have tried everything possible, still love their kitty when they have to get them declawed. Yes I believe so.
Is Kylie my princess? Definately. It wasn't my choice/decision to get her declawed.
Do people need to be educated about this barbaric action? Yes.
My friend that has Kylie's sister didn't have her declawed. Before I knew better I told her to do it, she didn't and Tome is very happy with all of her claws. Kylie is happy even tho she doesn't have them, well at least I like to think so b/c I love her so much. I just hope and pray that she doesn't have any behaivor issues. My thread of hope is that she realizes that I didn't do it to her!!! :( :o :eek: :eek: :eek:

[wolf_Q]

I'm against declawing...I really didn't know anything about it before reading a website (posted on PT) that told what they really did. I had no idea it was an amputation.

I've talked quite a few people at Petco into giving softpaws a try.

There's my 2 cents for what it's worth....not much I suppose considering I don't have a cat...;)

[All Creatures Great And Small]

Originally posted by Pattycat

I have never clipped their sharp little claws. For some reason, my thinking was that would make them scratch even more, to get them sharp again. Am I totally off base in this belief?

As far as I have heard, they scratch things to put their scent on them, and to also help remove the claw "sheaths" (as we used to call them) that they naturally shed; the outer layer of the claw. I don't believe the reason they scratch is to sharpen the claws.

[carole]

AGAINST:

There would have to be a very good reason before I would even consider this option, but for my two it will never happen.

[All Creatures Great And Small]

Well, I've just placed my order for a package of Soft Paws, so I'll let you know how it turns out. One thing I hadn't thought of, is that you can use the Soft Paws during the training period, rather than just relying on them in lieu of training. Then you may not have to continue buying them for the life of the cat. I am a little concerned about what happens when/if this company goes out of business, so it would be a good idea for me to try and train the little Saminator. Like I said before though, he's way more of a biter than a scratcher, but he's starting to snag my drapes and door/window screens now, so even just blunting his claws would be a good thing. I tried to hold him still for a nail clipping a while ago, and he would have NO PART of it - however, if I wait until he falls asleep on his beloved daddy, I bet I could do some nail maintenance. ;)

[GoldenRetrLuver]

I'm totally against it.

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by All Creatures Great And Small
I tried to hold him still for a nail clipping a while ago, and he would have NO PART of it - however, if I wait until he falls asleep on his beloved daddy, I bet I could do some nail maintenance. ;)
I forgot to tell you that part!! That's how we cut Noah's claws too...he normally wouldn't allow it. You can also cut his claws in a few tries...usually that works too. ;)

[*ABYCAT* Alice]

http://www.abycat.com/pettalk/claw.jpg
...but you are welcome to visit my site http://www.abycat.com

[krazyaboutkatz]

I'm also against declawing but had to learn the hard way. I adopted my RB Pepper when he was 9 weeks old and he was a little terror. When he was about 15 weeks old my Mom suggested that I get him declawed because he was scratching up everything and seemed out of control.

I was also very naive about the declawing procedure. I had only heard that you should do it on young cats because if they were older then it could effect their walking. I unfortunately decided to have him declawed on his front paws.:( He had to stay overnight at the vets and then the vet called me to tell me that Pepper didn't want to walk on his right paw.:( He had to wear a splint for a few days. He must have been in so much pain and now when I think about it I feel terrible.:(

He never had any behavioral problems but his personality changed. He became much shyer and more frightened towards people and he also became more terrified of going to the vets.:( I'll never ever get another cat declawed. I'm glad that I learned my lesson even though it was the hard way.

Here's a picture of my RB Pepper with his splint on his paw.

[BananaCo]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
I'm against declawing cats. Esepcially now that their are alternatives such as soft claws. In my opinion if you don't want an animal that scratches don't get a cat. That's what they do. I feel the same about people that debark their dogs. If you don't want a pet that barks then don't get a dog. If you really want a cat that is declawed then just wait until one shows up at the shelter, that's what my sister did. Her roommate wouldn't let her get a cat unless it was declawed and my sister refused to get a cat and put it through that procedure. So she went to the shelter and put in a request form, everytime a declawed cat came in they were call her and she kept looking at cats until she fell in love with one declawed cat. i totally agree. I am so against declawing it's not funny. Some people just aren't educated with the alternatives to declawing and they just think declawing will solve all problems.:rolleyes:

[Van10]

Originally posted by NoahsMommy

I would NEVER, EVER, EVER, (um....a million times EVER) declaw a cat. I'd rather be declawed myself than inflict that sort of abuse onto a defenseless animal.


I feel the same way.
Declawing is a cruel procedure that should be illegal everywhere. Like it has been said, there are many ways to discourage/prevent scratching. In my opinion, if someone cannot tolerate a cat's scratching behavior, they shouldn't own one!

That's my 2 cents. :)

Van - Tuxie's meowmy

[deed766]

I'm pretty new here and i know alot of you are against declawing, but i would like to get some feedback on what to do regarding my living situation. Here goes:


I have a wonderful cat, her and i have been happy together from 2-3 years. My rent in my apartment was getting way out of my price range and i decided to move. Problem- I have just moved into a band new apartment that has very strict regulations for cat and dog owners. In order for me to keep my cat and to keep my apartment, i will have to do something to control the cat scratching. She has already scratched the side of walls, the carpet (furnished by the apartment), and my new furniture. I had tried all kind of things to prevent this. I have learned now that its either to put her in a shelter or go for the surgery. What should i do? I really rather her not go through any bodily harm, but do i really have a choice?

[davidpizzica]

Have you thought of having
a scratching post in your apartment? Cats can be easily be trained to use it and sometimes teach themselves to use it!
Also ask your vet about Soft Claws. Both ideas will save your furniture and your peace of mind. (on my soapbox) Declawing a cat is TOTALLY unnessessary and is harmful to the cat. Don't even THINK of declawing!!

[deed766]

I have already tried the scratching post with and without cat nip and it doesn't work. What is soft paws?

[leslie]

Go to your vet and request Soft Claws! they slip over the claws and do not hurt kitty or furniture etc (I have same problem with doorways!) Let us know what happens! (or Soft Paws what ever they are called.. I have opted for double sided sticky tape where my scamp likes to stretch and claw on the door frames!)

[catfancier]

Hi all,

My 2c worth - here in New Zealand, declawing is heard of but very uncommon in practice - no vets that I am aware of recommend declawing cats, as it is cruel and unnatural.
I am training as a vet nurse, I have grown up with cats and have two gorgeous cats of my own, and through my training I have been able to clip my cats claws when they get too sharp. This is an easy, painless, and quick method to stop the scratches and occasional play fight wounds they give to each other and to me!
I have a cat who was a stray and adopted my partner and I, she hates having her claws clipped, so I have to basically sit on top of her to clip her claws. She protests, but it is over with quickly, and when I am finished, she runs outside and finds a tree to scratch against.
Both my cats use the back of a carpet-covered chair as a scratching post, and this suits them well. The only other place they scratch is an old sofa, but if they get into something they aren't allowed, the punishment comes in the form of a spray bottle of water. They have both learnt very well and very quickly!
Last point: Drapes/Curtains/Carpet/Couches can be easily replaced but can your cat?

(Photo is of Sophie, cat I have had since I was 3! She is due to turn 20 in December :) )

[davidpizzica]

Hi, Catfancier, welcome! My name is david p and I live in Pittsburgh, Pa. I'm owned by two cats, Nikki, a 4 year old tuxedo, and Daisy, a 16 month old tortoiseshell. I very much agree with you about declawing. It is done in the United States, but the practice should be banned! My two kitties are not declawed and a couple pieces of furniture have battle scars! I have themn trained to a point where I say "Nikki!" and she will stop woking on the furniture. Catfancier, I hope that you stay and post alot and there are alot of people here that share your viewpoint.

[catlady1945]

Declawed cats do not necessarily have behaviour or physical problems.

[sasha the cat]

I hope one day that in Canada, the USA and everywhere a law is enacted whereby Onychectomy [declawing] felines and ferrets becomes a criminal act.

Claws are the first line of defense for felines and ferrets. My son has a sweet cat named Scruffy. She was an abandoned young cat, about a year old who one day was sitting on my balcony. A friendly little girl she jumped onto my lap. She was pregnant. Imagine my horror to find she was declawed, all four paws!

My son, Mark was living w/his father, going to college. I had convinced his dad to foster the cat until her kittens could be placed. My son insisted this be done. I knew my son would never let the mother leave once he had her. Scruffy had two kittens, one still-born. At the time my son was 17 1/2. He kept Scruffy and her surviving baby, Mr Baby. His dad wanted him to find a home for Mr Baby and Mark was so shocked. He said Mr Baby was born on his bed and he would not leave. He asked his dad: "could you have given me away?"

Mr Baby was born with a heart defect but he did live 7 wonderful, happy years with Sruffy and Mark.

To think Scruffy was abandoned after being declawed all four paws thus eliminating her ability to protect and defend herself bothers me to this day.

Instituting a law where declawing becomes a criminal act can't happen fast enough for me, Scruffy and her human, my son Mark.

Catfancier sums it up purrfectly:

Last point: Drapes/Curtains/Carpet/Couches can be easily replaced but can your cat?

I heard that in England Onychectomy is illegal but don't know if this is true. Hopefully that is the case.

[Uabassoon]

I would suggest soft paws, they are nail caps that you put on them so they can't scratch. I use them on my cat Tibby and she doesn't even notice that she has them.

http://www.softpaws.com/

[davidpizzica]

Sasha, declawing is a criminal act that should be banned EVERYWHERE!! I do believe that it is illegal in Great britain, but I can't figure out why it isn't banned in the U. S. A. or Canada? You're exactly right when you said that a cat's claws are his first defense. I' rather buy a new chair than to declaw a poor kitty!!

[HVAC_101]

:eek: Who in their right mind would think of doing it. And the old saying "They tear everthing up" is lam They have things on the market now to stop them, I've always found using a wood log in the corner works very well. :p

I'm new to Pet Talk but not to Cat's ah Master of humens. :D

[davidpizzica]

Originally posted by HVAC_101
:eek: Who in their right mind would think of doing it. And the old saying "They tear everthing up" is lam They have things on the market now to stop them, I've always found using a wood log in the corner works very well. :p

I'm new to Pet Talk but not to Cat's ah Master of humens. :D HVAC-101, welcome to Pet Talk! I'm david p and I live in Pittsbugh Pa. To me, ANY excuse to declaw a poor kitty is so lame.To do that to a defensless kitty is CRIMINAL! I have two rescue cats, Nikki, a tuxedo kitty, and Daisy, a tortoiseshell kitty. Both have all of their claws. A couple of chairs have battle scars, but that goes with the territory. I tell Nikki to "stop" and she will. I'm glad we share the same viewpoint. And keep posting, we are really friendly here!

[dragonchilde]

If scratching posts don't work, one can always try real wood...given a choice, my 16 year old would rather scratch on the bush outside rather than the carpet scratching posts.

Consider that, perhaps, as an alternative to carpet scratching posts?

[CalliesMom]

I just took one of my cats to a new vet this past week. The vet tech asked me if she was declawed in the front and I said yes. Not to make excuses but I was ignorant to how truly horrible this procedure is and would NEVER EVER do it to another cat. I told her that Callie was, in fact, declawed and stated that I wish I had never done that to her. The vet asked me why and I told him because it is inhumane. Do you know what he told me?

"You provide your cat with food, water, and shelter. The least she can do is give up her claws so as not to ruin your couch." !?!?!?! :mad:

He further went on to say that people who feel that declawing is cruel don't know what they are talking about. WHAT?!?! He's a veterinarian and he should know better. It shouldn't be about $$$, but of the general welfare and happiness of your clients.

[davidpizzica]

Wha kind of a vet did you take your cat to??? He's probably for declawing because it would mean more MONEY for him. Never mind the welfare of the cat, it means big bucks to him. I have said it before declawing IS CRIMINAL and should be OUTLAWED! It is pure torture for the poor kitty!

[CalliesMom]

I took her in to simply get her annual shots and to have her ears checked out. I work at our veterinary school and you would think that working in a town WITH a vet school, he would be a little more hesistant to say things like that. If gives our college a bad name.

[CamCamPup33]

Cali was declawed when we got her, so it really wasn't my choice.

But im against it, i think it's wrong and I don't like it one bit.

[Kfamr]

I'm against it. There's so many different alternatives.


Amber -- Cali's declawed??? I thought she was an outside cat?

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Amber -- Cali's declawed??? I thought she was an outside cat?

She is an outside cat. Like i said, when i got her she was already declawed from her previous owners.

[the Julles]

Absolutely you SHOULD declaw your cat (if you want to). All of my cats (indoor only!) have been declawed, front and back. This makes them loveable, soft, cuddly pets who will not damage your furniture or scratch YOU. Even cats with only hind claws can scratch. My dining table has the marks to prove it.

Who knows if it "hurts" the animal? Only the cat can anwer to that. But they sure don't act like it hurts... they're roving around the house as soon as they come home from the vet. And once the bandages come off, they're limber and bouncy as ever. And I have NEVER heard of deformaties or back problems later in life. I believe these are POSSIBLE, but I also believe advocates of non-declawing will come up with any logical SOUNDING terrors as a way to steer people away from declawing. In truth, declawing doesn't harm the animal in any way, does not affect the health, personality, or future well-being. It simply helps the pet and the human to co-exist better for a livetime of love and contentment.

None of my cats has ever learned to not scratch nor to use a scratching post. Those who insist on scratching can be less damaging with simple surgery. To say that an owner must put up with ruined furniture, carpets, and curtains is ludicrous when a simple solution is available.

(However, my Marley has managed to damage my sofa ($1,000 apiece) arms and a wicker room divider ($200) with just an instant's worth of scratching with clawless paws. )

Again... 100% FOR declawing.

the Julles

[Varga]

All of my cats (indoor only!) have been declawed, front and back. This makes them loveable, soft, cuddly pets who will not damage your furniture or scratch YOU. Even cats with only hind claws can scratch. My dining table has the marks to prove it.

My Leo isn’t declawed and he’s also loveable, soft and cuddely. Sure he scratches me from time to time. But he’s a CAT. A living, breathing CAT. Not a plushie.



Who knows if it "hurts" the animal? Only the cat can anwer to that. But they sure don't act like it hurts... they're roving around the house as soon as they come home from the vet.

Of course it hurts! And even if it didn’t it’s still totally unethical and ONLY serves the humans benefit.
I’m sure a lot of parents are tired of their toddlers getting into every drawer and closet.. But that doesn’t give them the right to surgically remove the kids fingers, now does it?



And I have NEVER heard of deformaties or back problems later in life. I believe these are POSSIBLE,

Exactly. They are possible and heard of. So why risk it?



but I also believe advocates of non-declawing will come up with any logical SOUNDING terrors as a way to steer people away from declawing.

Vice versa!



In truth, declawing doesn't harm the animal in any way, does not affect the health, personality, or future well-being. It simply helps the pet and the human to co-exist better for a livetime of love and contentment.

As said so many times before. Cats come with claws. No claws. No cat. Get a plushie.


None of my cats has ever learned to not scratch nor to use a scratching post. Those who insist on scratching can be less damaging with simple surgery. To say that an owner must put up with ruined furniture, carpets, and curtains is ludicrous when a simple solution is available.


(However, my Marley has managed to damage my sofa ($1,000 apiece) arms and a wicker room divider ($200) with just an instant's worth of scratching with clawless paws. )

Cats can’t learn “not to scratch�.. As you said. Even declawed they feel a need to scratch. It’s just one of those things you accept, when you bring a cat into your home.

-Varga

[Uabassoon]

Absolutely you SHOULD declaw your cat (if you want to). All of my cats (indoor only!)

This makes them loveable, soft, cuddly pets

That sounds like a great idea! While I'm at it I should debark my dog because it will make him a nice quiet and loveable pet. Because a cat with claws and a dog that barks is in no way a loveable animal. I know a toddler that likes to walk around and sometimes break things, maybe I should suggest that he get his hands cut off. We wouldn't want him to break anything valuable. A toddler with no hands turns into a loveable child that can cause to damage. I think I should change all of nature to suit my needs. Thank you for showing me that if I don't like something about nature I should change it. :rolleyes:

[davidpizzica]

To protect the furniture IS NOT an excuse to torture a poor cat. As Varga said, get a plush toy, DON'T torture a poor defenseless cat just to protect funiture! This barbaric practice SHOULD BE OUTLAWED in the U.S. and everywhere else!!

[davidpizzica]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
That sounds like a great idea! While I'm at it I should debark my dog because it will make him a nice quiet and loveable pet. Because a cat with claws and a dog that barks is in no way a loveable animal. I know a toddler that likes to walk around and sometimes break things, maybe I should suggest that he get his hands cut off. We wouldn't want him to break anything valuable. A toddler with no hands turns into a loveable child that can cause to damage. I think I should change all of nature to suit my needs. Thank you for showing me that if I don't like something about nature I should change it. :rolleyes: Uabassoon, I couldn't agree more! AMEN!!!!!

[lizzielou742]

Originally posted by the Julles
Absolutely you SHOULD declaw your cat (if you want to). All of my cats (indoor only!) have been declawed, front and back. This makes them loveable, soft, cuddly pets who will not damage your furniture or scratch YOU.


None of my cats has ever learned to not scratch nor to use a scratching post.

You are talking about amputation of part of a cat's "toes." IMO that is animal cruelty.

Declawing is illegal and/or considered extremely inhumane in:
England
Scotland
Wales
Italy
France
Germany
Austria
Switzerland
Norway
Sweden
Netherlands
Northern Ireland
Ireland
Denmark
Finland
Slovenia
Portugal
Belgium
Spain
Brazil
Australia
New Zealand

There is no medical reason you would ever need to declaw a cat. I have two cats, and because I TRAINED THEM (there's a novel idea :rolleyes: ) not to scratch me, and I gave them other appropriate places to scratch, I have not been scratched by either one of them since the first week I had them. Not one single scratch. My furniture isn't scratched up either. The fact that you have not taught your cats to use a scratching post, and declawed them anyway, is despicable.

Like it was said before, cats come with claws. If you don't want claws, go get a stuffed animal. Or a pet rock.

[lizzielou742]

Originally posted by CamCamPup33
She is an outside cat. Like i said, when i got her she was already declawed from her previous owners.

Pretty please consider keeping her inside only. She is 100% defenseless outdoors. If she was ever to encounter an animal bigger than her, or a snake, or fall down into a hole or ravine...I shudder at the thought. :( :( :(

[cruisetime]

I have only read the first page of responses so far. Personally - as you all know I don't know much about cats and have just now got my first one - I would not say no matter what I would not declaw. I don't think it is a good thing to do and wouldn't want to do it BUT there are situations that I would not want to include in that statement. I was at the Animal Control shelter looking at the cat I adopted and there was a beautiful cat looking at me. I asked about her and they said she was not adoptable because she was pregnant and too pregnant to get an abortion so they would not adopt her out. The next day I went back to pay for the kitty I have taken home and the beautiful cat was not there - I asked the lady and she just looked at me and finally said they had already killed her. Now if this had been a situation of if she was declawed they could adopt her and if not they would kill her - well I'd say declaw. As a matter of fact the declaw ones do have a better chance. Most are killed in 24 hours if it is an owner release and 72 hours on a stray. Be careful to make such a blanket statement - if your leg was caught under a rock and the river was rising and you had a knife wouldn't you cut off your leg before you drown? Debbie

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
Pretty please consider keeping her inside only. She is 100% defenseless outdoors. If she was ever to encounter an animal bigger than her, or a snake, or fall down into a hole or ravine...I shudder at the thought. :( :( :(

I've had this thought MANY times. Trust me, i would love to keep her in but i can't. Keeping her inside isn't an option.

1- She doesn't like it in the house, when i bring her inside she scratches on my door wanting out.

2- My dad is allergic to cat's and he has VERY bad allergy attacks when the cat is in the house.

She has her back claws so she isn't 100% defenseless. (The claws in the back of her front paw's).

She has never been an inside cat, she like's it outside because that's what she was used to when WE got her. It's not what she's used to, so she doesn't like it. And she's not outside the whole time, she sleep's inside of the garage.

[mina'smomma]

I'm not sure how I feel about declawing. My poor Mina has to be declawed as soon as she is big enough because her poor front paws have claws that are growing inward and are very bothersome to her. She is the runt of the litter so the vet doesn't want to do the surgery until she is a little bigger. I also tend to agree with some of the others who think its ok if its the only reason a cat is being adopted, but just because an owner doesn't want to mess with training a cat then no. I will never agreee to having all four paws done because cats still can use their back claws for defense.

[davidpizzica]

Mina's Momma, I've said before that I'm dead set against declawing for the reason of saving furniture, but in Mina's case,if it would relieve her of pain, I think that it would be a good reason.

[leslie]

Jan (Queenscoopalot) was called to a nursing home a couple of summers ago here. The nurses had been feeding a cat with a partial tail. After much searching, she finally managed to trap him (there was a heavily wooded area and then a very busy street below the hilled woods making it near impossible to know where he could be and no real feeding schedule- eye, eye,eye!!!!!) Anyway, turned out, this orangie long haired male was already neutered, had likely accidently gotten out of his home. Maybe he belonged to an elderly person or someone with lots of kids and hard to monitor the doors... Anyway, he is declawed in front but this clearly did him no good. The vet said some creature ripped off his tail. Fox, coyote, raccoon? He is lucky whatever it was didn't do more damage. He was a 6 month quarenteen and now in a good home. My point is, BACK CLAWS DO NOT DO MUCH GOOD TO HELP CATS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES!
Predators grab at the neck when they can, what good are back claws then? zero. If someone has a story where back claws were used by a cat to save it's life against a predator, I welcome it, it would give us all some peace of mind for those poor strays out there that are declawed!

[davidpizzica]

As I said in Mina's case,where it would relieve Mina's pain and discomfort I would say yes. But otherwise, just doing it to protect furniture(being too LAZY to train) is just plain torturing the poor animal!

[bootsysmommy]

We just got our kitten a few weeks ago.
My mom always declawed our cats growing up... so when we got boots, we were thinking about it... (he scratches us, A LOT)

I did research online about it and within reading 2 sentences about declawing and effects I became totally against it.

He's been a farm kitty until we got him (hes about 6 months). Its only been a few weeks, but we've actually trained him and he knows he can go to the couch we dont care about to scratch, or his scratching post. He stays away from our precious expensive couch :)

I have to say even if he was tearing up my furniture, theres no way, knowing what I do about declawing, that I could do it to him.

[davidpizzica]

Hi, bootsysmommy, welcome to Pet Talk! I am david p and I live in Pittsburgh, Pa. I'm owned by two kitties, Nikki, a tuxedo kitty, and Daisy, a tortoiseshell kitty. Both of them still have their claws. You may have read some of my posts on declawing, which state that I'm totally against it. I'm glad that you did'nt put your kitty through this. I'd rather train them to use a scratching post than to put them through this.

[bootsysmommy]

I totally agree :)

There's just no need for it. Asides from the actual procedure being something I coudn't do to him...

More than 1 friend also told me after they brought the cat home from the vet that they were never the same. And Boots is such an affectionate loveable kitty I wouldn't want him to change.

[Obpp]

I am for declawing...I've had my last two done with laser surgery...the after-effects and pain are minimal and they will never...ever...go outside.

[carole]

Obpp I am curious as to why you deem it necessary to de-claw your cats at all?

I am sure done the way you mentioned is less painful for the cat, but why put your cat through anything painful at all when you don't have to?

P.S how do you know the pain is minimal, because you have been told this by the vet, are you feeling the pain?

[davidpizzica]

Declawing, for any reason, no matter HOW it is done, is painful for the cat. To me, declawing no matter how humane is torture for him. this barbaric practice SHOULD be outlawed everywhere. There is NO EXCUSE for declawing. A cat can be trained to use a scratching post and not your furniture.

[carole]

I am in complete agreement with you there David, I know some people on PT who have had it done, would never do it again, if its merely done so they won't scratch your good furniture or wallpaper, then maybe one should not have a cat.

I take pride in my home, and there are things my darling Lexie has destroyed, like my sheer curtains, my wallpaper, the list goes on and she is the only cat I have ever had who is so destructive, and she has lovely big trees which she scratches her claws on, but I would never consider doing this to her in a million trillion years.. she is worth so much more to me than material replaceable things,of which she is neither.

And I am proud to say in New Zealand it's illegal or considered extremely inhumane and only performed under extreme circumstances.

I think if your material positions are that important to you, then a cat is not the pet for you, simple as that.

[davidpizzica]

Oh, Carole! I just wish it was illegal in the U.S.A.! I hate this pitiful excuse: "It will save my furniture!" Carole, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[cloverfdx]

I am totally against it, and thankfully it is illegal in Australia.

[carole]

David no need, I feel just as strongly as you do, and if I were you, I would start trying to get something done about changing the law over there, start a petition or something, and see if you can eventually get it made illegal.

It really amazes me a civilised country like the US can still think it is ok to carry out this barbaric procedure,tail docking is going to be illegal here too soon, we are behind in many things, but sure are ahead here for sure.:)

[lmgluvscats]

Over the past 27 years I have had 8 cats...all of them declawed on their front paws...and they were, and are, indoor/outdoor cats. They have lived long and healthy lives. At this time I have 1 cat that is 17 yrs and 2 brothers that are 12 yrs. Declawing did not change their personalities, and they had absolutely no difficulties from the surgery. They came home the day following surgery and went back to being their old selves...just as sweet and loving and playful as before.
I have 3 kittens of different ages also, besides the older ones. I will, of course, be getting them neutered.....and, as usual, the front feet declawed at the same time. My vet always uses stitches that are absorbed into the body, and when surgery is completed, you can't even tell anything has been done. There is no swelling, drainage, etc. They go back to their normal routine, and I need to do no home care.
Maybe it depends on the veterinarian, that does the procedure, as to how it affects the cat?
All I know is that my cats survived outside, and climbed trees, and defended themselves from other cats and dogs in the neighborhood,...... and still were my family's most precious household companions to sleep with, and cuddle with, and help with homework!!
They also lived to ripe old ages after giving us so very much happiness and enjoyment...and I dare anyone to say they were abused. I simply live and love cats too much.

[carole]

My only question to you would be why did you deem it necessary to de-claw your cats? if they were mean't to be declawed they would be born that way,its inhumane to my way of thinking, but I don't doubt your love for your cats just mis-understand your reasoning.

[lmgluvscats]

Why do I de-claw? To prevent another sofa and chair from being clawed to shreds, my drapes from being pulled full of holes, and my babies...later toddlers...and then small children being accidentally scratched from interaction with my favorite pets. I don't know how many times I was so thankful there were no claws when my babies were born and then began crawling and walking. I did not have to worry about an errant claw getting caught in their flesh as they played with each other. After all, the children had to be taught how to play with them properly, and I couldn't always be there. In fact, some of my family and friends thought I would simply be getting rid of my cats when our first baby was born!!!
My cats ran and chased each other as usual and played with the mobiles in the baby bed and later the pull toys...so there was constant interaction. I now have 3 grown daughters that love and adore cats and dogs as much as I do, and, OH MY, when they come back home and the cats hear their voices!! It would make you cry to see them come running, whether they are inside or outside, to see there old bedmates.
Even as I write, I have 2 purring kittens that can't get close enough. They want my hands and want to nuzzle my face. But even at this young age they have started causing damage...climbing drapes, kitchen curtains, etc. I had some clothes hanging to dry in the bedroom and they jumped up on them and pulled threads....oh the little dears. I'm glad some of you out there have taught yours different, but I have scolded, water sprayed, tried repellants...nothing worked. I guess that is one of the things I like about cats they are so darned independent. THEY do what they WANT to do like it or not and have a way of looking and acting to get away with it.

[carole]

Thank you for your explanation, although I can understand where you are coming from, I simply cannot condone the practice at all, it is still barbaric IMO and many others share my views.

My Lexie is a grown cat who has wrecked many of my things, the wallpaper and curtains,(and yes I do take pride in my home) and I am dis-heartened she has done this, and nothing seems to stop her either, but regardless I would NEVER EVER consider de-clawing, especially for those reasons.

However I am glad that your cats seemed to have gotten over the procedure as well as you say.

I guess I will respectfully and politely just have to agree to disgree with you on this one. cheers.

[Lilith Cherry]

Definitely against! I think it is cruel and unnecessary! Clip the claws short, use covers but don't mutilate a cat for your own ends!:eek: :mad:

[davidpizzica]

Declawing is unnessary and hurtful to the poor cat. He can't tell you that it would hurt, but it does. Also, to save your drapes and furniture is a very poor excuse to do it. They can be trained not to claw furniture and use a scratching post. I am so against declawing!!

[Randi]

I'm very much against declawing cats, the thought of doing so has never crossed my mind. It's not allowed in Denmark anyway. :) If it was, I don't think anyone would have it done.

I have lived with a cat now for about 8 years, and it has taken quite a long time to even be able to lift him - now I can clip his nails! :D

[leslie]

In my baby album (i am now well into my 40's) my favorite pics are of me as an infant and toddler with our 2 cats, Douglas and John, then later as a 4 year old till teenager, Scoopy and Zab-Zab. None of our cats ever damaged me with their claws! I love those black and white pics so much- me in the crib with one of the cats keeping me warm!

[angiebarney]

I am totally against mutilation of any animal for appearance or convenience sake, including the docking of dogs tails and sheep's tails, ear clipping and all the other dreadful things we animal lovers do for (read TO) our pets. It is illegal in Australia thank goodness, and I personally have never come acroos a de-clawed cat. I have met plenty of canines though who have been 'prettied up'! the only time an animal should be altered is when it is totally for the creatures benefit
By the way what on earth are 'softclaws'?:confused:

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by lmgluvscats
Why do I de-claw? To prevent another sofa and chair from being clawed to shreds, my drapes from being pulled full of holes, and my babies...later toddlers...and then small children being accidentally scratched from interaction with my favorite pets. I don't know how many times I was so thankful there were no claws when my babies were born and then began crawling and walking. I did not have to worry about an errant claw getting caught in their flesh as they played with each other. After all, the children had to be taught how to play with them properly, and I couldn't always be there. In fact, some of my family and friends thought I would simply be getting rid of my cats when our first baby was born!!!
My cats ran and chased each other as usual and played with the mobiles in the baby bed and later the pull toys...so there was constant interaction. I now have 3 grown daughters that love and adore cats and dogs as much as I do, and, OH MY, when they come back home and the cats hear their voices!! It would make you cry to see them come running, whether they are inside or outside, to see there old bedmates.
Even as I write, I have 2 purring kittens that can't get close enough. They want my hands and want to nuzzle my face. But even at this young age they have started causing damage...climbing drapes, kitchen curtains, etc. I had some clothes hanging to dry in the bedroom and they jumped up on them and pulled threads....oh the little dears. I'm glad some of you out there have taught yours different, but I have scolded, water sprayed, tried repellants...nothing worked. I guess that is one of the things I like about cats they are so darned independent. THEY do what they WANT to do like it or not and have a way of looking and acting to get away with it.
What wonderfully selfish excuses to declaw. It is a good job you could afford those operations, else you would have had to find five minutes a day to teach your cats to use a scratching post and you would have had to supervise your children when playing with the cats. *roll eyes*

Please note cats are VERY easily trained to use a post, if it is done properly. If you need help training a cat just post there is no reason to multilate it.

When I hear these very common excuses, I find that the training was never consistant the trainning post was usually a cheap unstable version and the biggest irony of them all.....Cats stop scratching when they get older WITHOUT declawing.

A year old cat is very good about using a post, even if your training was poor but that is too late as most owners have cut off their toes before this point and think the result was worth it.

There is NO advantage to the CAT in being declawed and hence this operation should never take place in healthy cats. People need to learn that 5 minutes of post training a day should be an automatic part of owning a cat, as daily walking is for dogs.

PS. I would not trust your children near a declawed cat, if provoked the cat will attack not using a quick swipe of front claws (which easily heals) but with the back claws and nasty bites a worse and more painful result.

[stephanie0122]

I am against declawing as a rule, although i was considering having ALL mine done about a year ago. We had just gotten new furniture that cost Sooooo much money and when i saw them scratching at it i was so mad. However i am a Veterinary Technician Student and i had learned at school how to properly cut a cats nails myself without hurting them. I tried this on my own cats and it auctully worked. I just cut off the very tip of the point (sharp part) once a week and they don't do any damage when they do scratch. You can even do their back ones!

[stephanie0122]

I do understand where you are comming from when you say that the cats are wrecking your house. They were wrecking mine too...but if you can learn how to do this you wont have to get any surgery done.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Very much against.

There ARE less expensive, and pain-free alternatives instead of de-clawing.

We clip our cat's nails every few weeks, and use Soft Paws (http://www.softpaws.com).

Here's just a picture of Angel stylin' her Soft Paws. ;)
http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/GoldenRetrLuver/angel_008.jpg

[paul_brum2003]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
I'm against declawing cats. Esepcially now that their are alternatives such as soft claws. In my opinion if you don't want an animal that scratches don't get a cat. That's what they do. I feel the same about people that debark their dogs. If you don't want a pet that barks then don't get a dog. If you really want a cat that is declawed then just wait until one shows up at the shelter, that's what my sister did. Her roommate wouldn't let her get a cat unless it was declawed and my sister refused to get a cat and put it through that procedure. So she went to the shelter and put in a request form, everytime a declawed cat came in they were call her and she kept looking at cats until she fell in love with one declawed cat.
I believe IF it for health reasons for the cat then & only then should it be declawed .Also I do not see how it would not be degradeing to the cat as well as painful & one person I know who got their cat done said she thanks hers died of shame because hers would not eat & so it died shortly .plus what about infections etc.

[paul_brum2003]

Originally posted by Chinadoll
Adding my 2 cents...

I would highly recommend other alternatives before declawing. Declawing is solely for the benefit of humans and not in the best interest of the cat.

It isn't very hard to train your cat to a scratch post. All it requires is a little time and a squirt bottle. It also helps to have a scratch post/scratching area in every room your cat frequent until they get the hang of it.

It also helps to keep your cat's claws clipped regularly. Clipping/trimming the claws will greatly decrease the damage when your cat does scratch. Soft Paws is also an option.

At 4 months old you kitty is still a baby and learning. You wouldn't remove a dog's teeth because as a puppy he chewed on everything(meaning furniture shoes etc..)? If your kitty started biting as a form of play, you wouldn't remove his teeth, would you? Instead you'd teach the kitty that's not an acceptable form of play.

I have 3 cats all of which came to me between the age of 5 to 12 weeks. With a little effort on my part, they were all trained to a scratch post within the first few weeks. They were all fixed at 6 months and all get their nails clipped every other week.

Please reconsider declawing. There are other options...even for the wildest of kitties, he's still young enough to be trained.
JMHO
I have a foot stool just for my cat to scratch on & so far that has been all she has used.I also have a scratching post for her & with a little catnip in it to start with she loves it . I have not heard of "soft paws
what is "Soft paws" & what do they do to the cat ?

[leslie]

go back to previous posts. They are only allowed to be put on the claws by a vet. Or go to google and type in soft claws. I can't personally vouch for them but go to previous posts, maybe others can! Better than bone surgery!
I agree with PIF.
And, I have spent much money on furniture, antique wood bookshelves, etc. when the cats have an inclination to mark that "priceless piece" I make a decision. There are ways to keep them from doing this, or, I make the piece inattractive (i.e. just move it to another location of my apt.). They do loose interest with age.

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by leslie
go back to previous posts. They are only allowed to be put on the claws by a vet. Or go to google and type in soft claws. I can't personally vouch for them but go to previous posts, maybe others can! Better than bone surgery!

actually you can buy them thru mail order for dogs and cats and you can apply them yourself.

[shais_mom]

cats


http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=2975&Ntt=soft%20claws&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=0


dogs



http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=1408&Ntt=soft%20claws&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=0

[Jods]

against... Lets see how you feel if your finger is removed at the first knuckle.... Sorry to say it like this I just can't stand the thought of it

[Uabassoon]

I've used soft paws on Tibby before and loved them. I bought them at Petsmart they were around $17 for a pack of 40. They last a pretty long time.

[LIzzzzy]

I'm all for it.

[carole]

Are you saying you are all for declawing, if so can you please explain why to me that you think it is ok, to put an animal through un-necessary pain for what reason? Thank you.

[davidpizzica]

I totally agree, Carole. There is NO EXCUSE for putting a cat through torture. I, too would like to know your reasoning for declawing.

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by LIzzzzy
I'm all for it.

??so you are all for total amputation of what is equivalent to our first knuckles to our fingers??

[mina'smomma]

Originally posted by david p
Mina's Momma, I've said before that I'm dead set against declawing for the reason of saving furniture, but in Mina's case,if it would relieve her of pain, I think that it would be a good reason.

Thanks david p. Several of my friends where I'm at keep telling me I'm being cruel getting it done. They keep telling me to keep doing like the vet told me to do until she get big enough for the surgery and that's is a special way to trim her nails which leaves her poor paws sore for the next couple of days and she doesn't play. I will never declaw a cat for cosmetic purposes unless its to save the cats life. (example its on death row at the animal shelter). But with Mina's condition its either she has the surgery or she is in pain every other week from having to have those blasted nails clipped. (we are now having to clip right into the quick of her nail because its growing right into her paw.)

[Miranda_Rae]

I'm against declawing. Although Heidi's dewclaws were removed when she was a puppy. The reason they removed them is because when she is hunting they could get ripped and torn off running through the cattails and the fields. She gets REALLY beat up, so I know that that would happen to her dewclaws. :(

[carole]

Mina's Mom I don't think anybody here would judge you for doing as you are, your reasons are perfectly viable, it is when it is done to save the furniture etc that people like myself have a big problem with it.

[mina'smomma]

Originally posted by carole
Mina's Mom I don't think anybody here would judge you for doing as you are, your reasons are perfectly viable, it is when it is done to save the furniture etc that people like myself have a big problem with it.

You guys seem to be the only ones besides my vet who support my choice in doing it. I just hate seeing her suffer.

[carole]

Take heart in knowing that you have support here, don't worry about all the other's, you and you alone know what is best for your pet, let their opinions fall on deaf ears if you can. cheers.:)

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by mina'smomma
You guys seem to be the only ones besides my vet who support my choice in doing it. I just hate seeing her suffer.
Your decision to declaw is the ONLY acceptable reason to prevent pain for your cat.

Do it with a good heart you are acting unselfishly and for your cats sake.

[LIzzzzy]

They offer declawing for a reason. I think it's a great idea. If you have pride in your house and home and want a cat then why not! All of the alternatives have never worked for many people. Why ruin a leather couch when you can declaw your cat? It causes them pain for a few hours however they can get over it.

[davidpizzica]

Lizzzy, THE ONLY REASON to declaw a cat is to save the cat's life! To declaw for ANY OTHER REASON like to save money on furniture is to me a criminal act and should be outlawed everywhere. Declawing is cruel torture for a cat. To me, iy's maiming a cat!!!

[carole]

Yes David I agree, your attitude appalls me, and I don't think you should ever own a cat, its like who cares, my furniture is far more important, than a little pain and suffering to a living creature.

You I believe you are mis-informed, you act like its a nothing for an animal to go through, I would like to see you have your nails removed and see how you like it.

Either this really is how you feel, or you are just enjoying stirring things up in here, it is blatantly obvious most PT people are against declawing for very good reasons., I am glad my country has made it illegal, so that people like you cannot continue to be cruel to their pets.

Alot of others on PT have declawed their pets through ignorance and being mis-informed and will tell you they regret it, and would never do it again.

If you care more about your precious furniture, then get a gold fish.

I am normally a very easy going person , but I have to admit your posts have angered me, due to your very callous disposition.

[shais_mom]

Originally posted by LIzzzzy
They offer declawing for a reason. I think it's a great idea. If you have pride in your house and home and want a cat then why not! All of the alternatives have never worked for many people. Why ruin a leather couch when you can declaw your cat? It causes them pain for a few hours however they can get over it.

I think you should 'get over it'
If it is no big deal why is it illegal in some countries, and wasn't it outlawed in Los Angeles?
It's pet owner's like you that scare me to death, this coming from a person who wanted to know if she could trap her neighbor's cats and take them miles away and dump them.
Do you even own a cat?

[LIzzzzy]

NO, i dont own a cat, I'm not very fond of them.

We all have different opionins, dont bash me.

[CalliesMom]

You're kidding right? Have you ever taken the time to research declawing? Your animals are not a piece of furniture, they don't ask to live with you and treating in such a manner is disgraceful. It's inhumane. period.

[LIzzzzy]

well they could find a nice home and be for ever loved but need to be declawed - or - they can spend six months in a cage and then get put down.,

[shais_mom]

:rolleyes:

Actually I have noticed a pattern in you're 26 posts, you seem to want to fight with us.

[davidpizzica]

Lizzzy, why do cats "need" to be declawed? There is no excuse to maim a cat for life. Only in an extreme case case of saving a cat's life should it be done, otherwise, NO!! Since you don't own a cat, you don't know the pain the poor cat goes through and IT IS NOT "after a few hours hours the pain is gone" the poor cat has to live with it for life.

[K & L]

We have 23 cats and only 1 is declawed (we found her in the street and she was already declawed). We wouldn't declaw ours, but I've seen many declawed cats in loving homes and with no problems in having it done. Hazel seems to have no problems with this issue either. Since there wasn't a "depends" I didn't cast a vote. I really think it does depend on the situation. We don't declaw, but know some that do and their cats are spoiled, well cared for, and happy.

[carole]

I have to agree with you Staci, this persons post often seem hostile, and one wonders if we have a troll in our midst.

When people feel passionate about something like de-clawing it is only natural they are going to respond as such, so if that is what you call bashing, then so be it, you can't make such statements as you have and expect no retaliation in return.

The fact you donot even own a cat, shows me you don't really know what you are talking about, your opinions are based on WHAT? I ask you.

If your intentions were to get a bite, well you succeeded, everyone is entitled to their opinions and to voice them, and I have always respected that, but you post in a way that is bound to cause contention, and anger people, with a very callous I could not care less attitude, so it hurts them , big deal, they get over it, and my furniture would be more important.

[davidpizzica]

I have to agree with you, Carole. Lizzzy just wants to cause trouble. Almost all of her arguments aren't based in facts since she doesn't own a cat. I think that she is a troll and I'll try to restrain myself from responding to her.

[slleipnir]

I don't remember if I replied to this. But I'm not going through 10+ pages to see :rolleyes:

In general, yes, I'm definitly against it. However, there are some circumstances which I feel are understandable.

I think 90% of the cat section hates me from a post on declawing a while ago but I don't believe my point really got across cause I was upset.

I think if it's a matter of keeping the animal in your own care, and the only want to keep it is to declaw, then yes. It might be more painful for me then the cat to be honest, but somethings need to be done. I would never get a cat if I knew I'd have to declaw it for no reason. Never, EVER. I've been through declawing with Kiba (yes, hate me if you must) and it was the hardest thing I think I've ever had to do.

However, my mother gave me a maybe. She said if she was good, no declaw. So I knew I could train her...but I think my mom just couldn't have it so I duno.

Honestly, I still hate myself because I should have tried to get her to my dads sooner.

Also. IMO, I think getting your uterus removed seems a lot more painful. I've seen both operations, and both seem terribly painful. However, by telling ourselves that it is for the kittens future, it allows us to feel that putting the animal through the pain is ok. (I do feel spaying is important, don't get me wrong. I just think we tell ourselves that to feel better)

Now. I bet you wouldn't be able to tell that Kiba was declawed. You can't tell by looking at her paws (unless you know what it is like..IE it doesn't make their paws smaller like someone asked me once...) Kiba can climb ANYTHING including her stratching post tower. She claws at it like she has claws.

Saying all this, I'm still against declawing. I think it's horrible. I cried the whole time Kiba was away, and worried weeks before. (The things people said to me will likely stick with me forever. I think people treated me down right nasty and undeservingly) We all have our own opinons, doesn't make yours or mine right. We all make mistakes, we all do things we regret. Doesn't make you a bad person, doesn't mean you're cruel and shouldn't have pets (as someone told me........)

Kiba and Josie both follow me around everywhere. Kiba definitly is not unhappy. She now has a huge house to explore, and someone always home if she is lonely.

All I'm trying to say is some of yous houldn't judge others just cause they have declawed cats. You shouldn't dislike them either. We all have our own choices in life to make, and I GARENTEE you've made mistakes too.

(btw, I'm only saying this cause I indeed haven't gotten over the things said to me before. I was and still am very hurt by that.)

Besides, had I not taken Kiba (like I was told I should have done) her previous owner would have kept her. Lets see, she wouldn't be declawed. Can't afford it. Wouldn't be spayed. Can't afford that either. WOuld be left outside all the time, would probably breed with her father and mannnny other problems I have with that girl. To me, declawing her was worht having her with me and not with Tara. (Even though I still wish she wasn't declawed...)

[slleipnir]

Originally posted by LIzzzzy
They offer declawing for a reason. I think it's a great idea. If you have pride in your house and home and want a cat then why not! All of the alternatives have never worked for many people. Why ruin a leather couch when you can declaw your cat? It causes them pain for a few hours however they can get over it.

That's just stupid..don't get a cat if you think that way

[carole]

IMO Lizzzzy is a troll and should be ignored.

I don't think you can make a comparison about spaying and de-clawing, one is necessary , the other is NOT.

I understand your feelings were hurt and I remember that thread, turned right down nasty.

I have a problem with the posts Lizzzzy is making, she is purposely stirring up trouble.

I will never apologise for my opinion regarding de-clawing, apart from special circumstances, it is barbaric and totally un-necessary, I am glad my country has made it illegal, doesn't that tell you something?

Everyone makes mistakes at the cost of others sometimes, it is whether you learn from them or not that counts for something IMO.

I certainly have a problem with someone who comes here, starts a controversial thread like this, does not even own a cat, and admits to not even being fond of them, do you all smell a rat? I sure do. End of story.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

This thread was started in August of 2003! I don't understand why we are all still debating this. :confused:

[carole]

Exactly. I think Lizzzzzy started it up again,not sure.:(

[LIzzzzy]

I hate to tell everyone this but this thread has had posts from every month since last year, there were posts about this days before i posted, so no i did not bring it back up.

[slleipnir]

Well I posted today, but it was at the top. I'm sorry if I broght it up, but I wanted my opinon too.......

And to a degree, there is similarities to spaying and declawing. Anyway, I think that vent got me over it cause I don't really care about this topic anymore. (then again I spent since 7 thismorning studying for an exam (6pm now)

[carole]

Hmm I fail to see any similarities at all myself, one is done out of necessity , the other is NOT, but oh well, I guess we could go on and on, best to just move on and forget it.;)

I shall just respectfully agree to disagree strongly on this subject.:)

[Miranda_Rae]

Originally posted by carole
Exactly. I think Lizzzzzy started it up again,not sure.:(

I brought it up again. I was reading stuff about removing the dewclaws in dogs, and since I have my dog's dewclaws removed, I wanted to post that I thought that havings a cat's claws removed was inhumane, or something to that affect. I just wanted to post my thoughts on it or whatnot. Sorry for reopening a hornets nest. :o

[slleipnir]

I guess after again crying about it and talking to my friend I try to say things to stick up for myself so I will feel better about it. I hate myself for it, and I always will. She tells me to get over it but doesn't understand. She said she'd sooner give her cat up then do that to it (which is why I was crying) cause I couldn't give her up...I can't. My pets have a forever home, unless something came up where they 100% NEEDED a new home or they'd have a bad life.

I would have have the first joint of my fingers cut off if I could replace hers (honest to god) I would without thinking twice have Josies seizures. My life is less important then theirs, but the thing is I'm greedy and NEED them. And I feel they need me. Esp Josie who has been sick her whole life. My friend said some people would have put her to sleep.

I'm sorry to just say things as I did. I realize it now. But I can't stand the fact that people thing I'm a bad person or that I can't care for my pets. You guys will call me stupid, but things like this Really effect me.

My friend told me she grew up with cats and declawing as a wrong. I never knew ANYTHING about it, that it was wrong or anything till PT. I hate it more then anything. If you could feel how I am feel maybe you wouldn't hate me. I really feel you guys don't like me here. I just wish you weren't quiet so opinionated about it..(IE you're right. no other possibilities are. I was told I am immature, but to me, that is what's immature.)

I really need to put this to get over it. I'm tired of crying over things I shouldn't, but I garentee I wouldn't feel that way if those mean things weren't said. (I never got one appology btw. I was hoping from a certain person but I get I don't deserve it.) I should just leave pt. People would be happier.

No one loves their cat/dogs more then I love mine. I would give up my life style, money, everything. I would live in a box if I could give them the best. I don't have friends. They are my friends, and my life..

Just ignore me. I need to do this for my own good for nothing self. I'm going through **** right now. I would have killed myself long ago if not for my pets.

= my last post in cat general. DOn't worry.

(edit) just don't judge things you've never done you're self...

[PayItForward]

Just to address the ‘spaying is like declawing’ theory…..

In the case of neutering/spaying, this gives the following advantages to the cat :-

: Females have no chance of developing cervical cancer, dying in labour or any other breeding complications.

: Males are less prone to wandering and looking for partners which decreases their chance of RTA ‘s and catching FIV & FELV. (Mainly spread though fighting and breeding)

: All cats have reduced risk of developing breast cancer and a recent study proved that cats altered before their first heat cycle live longer lives.

In the case of declawing, this gives the following advantages to the cat :-

: Well, I haven't found one yet, but the Open Challenge (http://www.piftails.com/forum/upload/forumdisplay.php?f=17) is still open, if anyone has any suggestions.

[carole]

Slleipnir, I am so disturbed after reading your last post, and worried about you, sweetheart nothing is worth feeling the way you are about this topic, I know that I was not one of the people who were nasty to you, and in this thread I am merely stating the obvious, and really I have a problem with this Lizzzzy person, who appears to be nothing more than a troll.

There are quite a few other people on PT who have had their cats de-clawed, and now wish they never had, just like you, everyone makes mistakes, and if you learn by them as you have yourself, that is what is important.

I can speak for myself in saying I certainly have no bad feelings towards you and never had, and I am sure no-one hates you, it sounds like you are feeling very low right now, and everything is getting on top of you.

Please don't leave PT, that would be another mistake, your contribution is very important, even though I disagree with you on certain aspects of this topic, it is just that a difference of opinion, nothing less, nothing more, I respect you as a person, and have always enjoyed your posts.

It really saddens me to hear a young person as yourself, being so hard on herself and feeling so inadequate and despondent about your life, life is good slleipnir, embrace it, and make the very most of it that you can, when I feel like life is worthless, I just think of all the people out there given death sentences, like diagnosed with incurable cancer, some of which are young people like yourself, and how much they would do anything to beable to live, but have no choice, it doesn't always work, but it helps put my life into perspective sometimes.

Please Pm me anytime , even if it is just to chat, and please stay here with us on PT. HUGS.

[slleipnir]

Originally posted by PayItForward
Just to address the ‘spaying is like declawing’ theory…..

In the case of neutering/spaying, this gives the following advantages to the cat :-

: Females have no chance of developing cervical cancer, dying in labour or any other breeding complications.

: Males are less prone to wandering and looking for partners which decreases their chance of RTA ‘s and catching FIV & FELV. (Mainly spread though fighting and breeding)

: All cats have reduced risk of developing breast cancer and a recent study proved that cats altered before their first heat cycle live longer lives.

In the case of declawing, this gives the following advantages to the cat :-

: Well, I haven't found one yet, but the Open Challenge (http://www.piftails.com/forum/upload/forumdisplay.php?f=17) is still open, if anyone has any suggestions.

Reread my post??
I try to say things to stick up for myself so I will feel better about it.

I know exactly what the advantages of spaying. And I know a lot about delclawing. I've worked ina vet clinic, for one.

To me, advantages of declawing are for people who just can't/won't adapt a cat with claws. I can imagen if no cat ever got declawed ever again there would be a lot more in the shelters and a lot more put to sleep. Eventually though, things would right out again when all the people who don't wanted clawed cats have put them to shelters. I again stand by my 'I hate declawing and would never under normal circumstances EVER!!!! do it' I hate it as much as some of you do. But not enough to risk my cats life. She was older when she was declawed. She would have gone to the shelter and maybe PTS. I couldn't chance it. Also when Is aid I'd have my fingures removed to repair hers (if I said it here I dont know anymore) I ment it. I would gladly ungo unnessary pain for her safely. I will probably never forgive myself for what I did but I can't go back I guess

Thank you carole for clearing that up...I thought you were really mad at me too like some of the other people...I know you didn't say anything mean to me, but other people didn't but said they were very unhappy with me. And right now everything bothers me, i'm sorry for sounding dumb, but when my pets are envolved I'm extremely sensitive.

I ment cat gernal, not pt

[carole]

Nope Dear I am not a bit mad at you, it is not a personal issue in that sense, I just feel very strongly against de-clawing, with good reasons I believe, and I understand exactly what you are saying, to me there are special circumstances where de-clawing may be necessary, its people who have an attitude like Lizzzzy that bother me, I was annoyed by her callous comments, said without any real thought or regard to anyone, but like I said I am sure she is a troll to be igored.

Anyone with a brain in their head can hear how much you love your pets, and I have no doubt they are in loving hands, what is done is done, and you should forgive yourself, and know in your heart they have a wonderful life with you, and isn't that what really matters here.

Also I can relate to being sensitive when it comes to your beloved pets, I have been in indoor/outdoor debates,and felt pretty hurt sometimes, my two being indoor/outdoor, sometimes we are looked upon as being loathed for allowing our pets to do just that, but then thats another show as Oprah would say lol, we just have to know in our heart what we do for our pets is right, and to the best of our ability, as you clearly pointed out some of these cats would not even have a life, they would be PTS.

[lisaleo]

My opinion is: It is not fair or humane. Imagine something larger than yourself deciding to have your fingers amputated at the last knuckle...Then they say "Oh, he is better off"....Please! If you have issues with cats clawing they make rubber tips for the claws...also scratch posts work...I trim my cats claws (I have 5) they cannot hurt eachother and my furniture is intact. I think people who declaw should have their fingers amputated at the last knuckle...I know this is a 'radical' statement but I have done much field study and have more love and respect for the feline species than the human.

[davidpizzica]

Hi, Lisa, welcome to Pet Talk! I'm david p and I live in Pittsburgh, Pa. I have two kitties that own me, Nikki, a tuxedo kitty, and Daisy, a tortoiseshell kitty. I volunteer with Cat Sense, a cat rescue organization in Pittsburgh. Both Nikki and Daisy are rescued kitties. There are pictures of them in my signature. You and I share the same view on declawing. There is only one reason to declaw that is to save the poor cat from pain. There is NO OTHER REASON to declaw.

[carole]

Ditto, David, my sentiments exactly.

[Mandy1]

I don't know much about declawing, and well, I don't know to much about cats either however I do think it is a HORRIBLE alternative. If you don't want scratch marks on your furniture buy a cat beanie baby:rolleyes: I guess it's kind of the same with dogs, if you don't want it barking, get a fish :p. I know people that have their cats declawed, they all say that they would never do it again, most of them didn't know about the pain it causes for the cat when they had it done. LIzzzy, sorry, but I am so dam happy you don't have a cat. Your furniture is NO excuse, thats sad and inhumane:(

[slleipnir]

I don't think people should immediately jump to conclusions as it's only wrong...like I believe in some special circumstances. Like mine for example. I feel all these comments directed at me and I wish I would stop looking here but I feel like crying whenever I'm reminded.

I understand everyone has their own opinions, that's totlaly fine with nme, but if you wish for your opinion to be accepted why can't you accept others as well? It's like yours is the only right one. (I'm not,btw, directing this at anyone. I've talked to some people about it more privately and am fine with them so I hope no one thinks I'm directing it) It's just in the past (even though they don't remember it :( Judging has been put on me and I don't like it. I just don't see why I should accept others opinions when no one will accept mine..And I know Carol knows what I ment, she said she understands but has her own believes and thats fine by me and what I mean. Where as some people set on declawing and they ARE right. That's final. Everyone else should go to h*ll.

AGAIN, I'm not trying to justify that declawing is right or good, I hate it probably more then most of you, I just believe under some circumstances it's better for the cat. I can honestly see how full shelters would/will get if/when declawing is banned completely. They will be PTS because people can't have a cat with claws and perhaps they're all together ignorant with finding alternatives. Again, doesn't make it right but that's how people are. Maybe they'd be better off dead, but I don't personally believe so. I'd be heartbroken if my mom made me give Kiba to the shelter cause I wouldn't have her declawed, and at her older age (IE not a kitten anymore) maybe no one would want her.

I'm sorry to keep at this but I don't know that I can give it up. I feel guilty and probably always will. It justs bugs me how everyone says it;s wrong no matter what. I don't think that's true. I'm not trying to be mean, and I'd never declaw a cat again, but there is still a lot of people who don't care. It saddens me this happens for no reason, but at the same time I'm equally, if not more sad that they'd be killed otherwise. No one seems to see my reason. It's like I'm calling out in the dark. In the other thread it didn't matter what I said I was down right cruel and hated. The words stuck with me, for one person especially. It hurts more to know she didn't even remember doing it or saying it. I'd like to get along with the person but I'm to cruel and don't deserve pets appearintly. Which is probably true.

Saying that, you can't judge someone from their typing. It only shows a portion of their personality. I'd much prefer to talk face to face with this persona nd others so my true feels maybe can be seen. I honestly don't think I'm such amean person...Maybe it's just me but I believe I love Kiba enough to make up for her lost claws. Also seeing the claw is retractable, it's not like it's necessary for walking or anything although I'm sure it feels weird without them. And worst of all, the pain.

Kiba has a huge home to rome in. She is kept inside but in the summer is allowed outside on a leash if I'm with her. She has regular vet checks and money is no problem if a health problem ever arises. She has endless amounts of comfortable places to sleep, sit, and look outside. She has a million toys, and most important, all the love she ever wants. Someone is always home, so she doesn't get lonely. My dad never leaves home, so if I ever am away she never has to leave to go to a kennel. Maybe her life would have been better with claws, but honestly, she seems pretty happy to me. She scratches at things as if she has claws. She climbs ANYTHING.

I'm willing to set up a webcam or even record her so people can see how horrible a life she is and how miserable she is.

Again, I'm really sorry I can't let go. I feel extremely hurt since that thread and I know I'm childish, but I have a lot to learn yet. Being depressed and having no self confidence doesn't help. Anything negative said to me is taken to heart and I will believe it because I don't feel anything positive about myself. Maybe if I got a long with a certain person I'd feel better, but I'm honestly probably going to be hated forever.

[Mandy1]

slleipnir,

I understand what your saying. I agree, if the only thing that is stopping a cat from finding his/her forever home is their claws then I believe its ok to declaw them. There are other exceptions. I know you must be a great cat owner. I understand where your coming from, and I accept your opionin.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by Mandy1
I understand what your saying. I agree, if the only thing that is stopping a cat from finding his/her forever home is their claws then I believe its ok to declaw them.
I disagree, a home which demands declawing before homing a cat is not a good home but a narrow minded OR uneducated one.

What happens if the cat does something worse than scratching, like weeing on the carpet. That cat would usually be shipped off to the shelter straight away as these homes which won't accept frayed sofa are unlikely to tolerate urine soaked sofas any better.

Please note that 60% of declawed cats send to shelters have developed urine based problems. So declawing failed these cats, they certainly didn't get a forever home due to declawing and then they have a much higher chance of being put to sleep, who wants a weeing cat ?!?

Owners need to be forced by law NOT to declaw while we educate them why declawing is pointless.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
slleipnir,

We chatted last year about your kitties in a friendly way.

As I said then.

But you are a minor child, it was your mothers responsibility to declaw Kiba not yours, that is why I asked if your MUM had her declawed.

Just remember what people hate is the fact that cats are declawed and the problems the cats develop and yes the people who have the facts and do it anyway. But this doesn't apply to you or your mum, as you didn't have the decision and your mum didn't have the facts. :(


Declawing your cats was your mums decision and as a minor you could not have overuled her decision. You never wanted your cats declawed and tried to persuade your mum but she had made her mind up from day one and nothing you said or did would have changed that.

Please do not take declawing threads as a direct aim at you they are no such thing.

These threads IMO are to educate people with the facts so if they choose to go ahead with a declawing operation, they do so with the knowledge of what could happen to their cats and alternative solutions.

YOU didn't do anything wrong, so don't feel guilty. Your cats have good loving homes and you will love them for their lifetime without claws as much as you would have done with them. :)

Please do not feel bad love those kitties with a guilt free heart and give them a cuddle from me, they are very lucky cats.

PIF

PS. slleipnir, You said last year, you might be interested in writing an article for my declawing site at www.declawing.co.uk. I would still love your input if you had the time :)

[Mandy1]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PayItForward
[B]I disagree, a home which demands declawing before homing a cat is not a good home but a narrow minded OR uneducated one.

What happens if the cat does something worse than scratching, like weeing on the carpet. That cat would usually be shipped off to the shelter straight away as these homes which won't accept frayed sofa are unlikely to tolerate urine soaked sofas any better.

Please note that 60% of declawed cats send to shelters have developed urine based problems. So declawing failed these cats, they certainly didn't get a forever home due to declawing and then they have a much higher chance of being put to sleep, who wants a weeing cat ?!?

Owners need to be forced by law NOT to declaw while we educate them why declawing is pointless.
TE]


Well I don't know much about this since I've never had a cat but...I know many poeple that have declawed cat's that are always messing up their house however I know they would never think about giving them away...so no, not always.

[carole]

Audrey I think Jenny has put it into perspective for you,rid yourself of any guilt sweetie, it is time to do that, look at your babies and is that not all the proof you need, I know you take it to heart, and that is nothing to be ashamed of, that is part of being YOU , but you know in your heart ,your furbabies have a great home, and so do all of us.

As for that certain person, maybe you should Pm them and tell them exactly how you feel, and try and bury the hatchet so to speak, I know this person is very passionate about what they believe, but also has a heart of gold, and I donot believe for one moment they hate you, or have a personal grudge against you, but you need to talk to them about it ok , HUGS.

Audrey even I have stated there are always exceptions to the rule, personally i had problems with Lizzzzzy in this thread who made statements which would trigger anyone's emotions, without any thought or experience, a person who admitted to not owning a cat or even liking them, grrr...., but I am not going to continue to feed this persons need for attention, and I still believe they are nothing more than a troll.:(

[PayItForward]

This is an open plea to any guest or member who is considering declawing their cat.

Please contact me or any other member of petalk for advice on training your cat to a post or overcoming other problems BEFORE you declaw your cat.

All I ask is that an effort is made to resolve the issues before resorting to declawing.

I promise I will remain helpful and friendly even if you decide to go ahead with the declawing.

PM me here or email me at [email protected] or post without registering on this section of the PIF Tails forum http://www.piftails.com/forum/upload/forumdisplay.php?f=22

Thank you

[slleipnir]

Hmm..well I AM old enough to move out, I COULD have taken Kiba but then she'd have a crappy life as I wouldn't be able to afford the life she has now. I feel bad cause I gave in to my mom when I should have stood up for her. At that time I have no alternatives so it is just as much my fault. I really don't know how that makes me narrowminded though..I just don't. Smitten was declawed a long time ago when I was a kid, then Kiba last year or whatever. Neither have any problems and you'd never know they were declawed IMO. That's not to say it's not possible. I would not give up my pet if they had blatter problems. I'd find someway to fix it.

Carole,I did talk with the person and we worked things out and agreed to just forget about this :) You were right.

[carole]

Audrey I am very pleased to hear that, I knew the person was approachable and would never hate you.

Just wanted to add, I think when you live in your parents home, you kinda have to abide by their decisions, as you say you could have moved out, but the kitties life would not be near as good, so there is your answer in itself, maybe in your case it was the right decision, I don't really know.

You should really forgive yourself Audrey, and put it behind you now, and enjoy those special kitties of yours ok.:)

[Juniors Mom]

Normally, I would agree with the majority,but my current friend, Junior, was born with deformed paws. Rather than the normal 4 toes, he has only 2 per front paw, and the claws(4 of them) were growing thru the sides of the inner edge. He is a healthy, and active young boy otherwise, but was in great pain as his claws continued to grow inwards. We( the vet and I ) tried several alternatives, before the final decision was made.

Do I think it effected him? Yes, most definately. But for Junior's special case, it was in his best interest.

[catnapper]

I think that in Junior's case, it was something that was medically neccesary to help him lead a normal life.

[davidpizzica]

Hi, juniorsmom, welcome to Pet Talk. I'm davi p and I live in Pittsburgh, Pa I am a servant to two kitties. Nikki, a tuxedo kitty, and Daisy, a tortoiseshell kitty. Normally I would be against it also, however in Junior's case, to ease his pain I would do it. I would hate to see Junior suffer.

[carole]

I think everyone agrees that there are special circumstances like Junior, and only then would de-clawing be considered necessary, if it is done to make the kitties life better then that is a completely different thing altogether.

[LabradorLover]

I agree with carole, catnapper and david p. I think de-clawing is fine in that circumstance. I don't understand why people would want to declaw their cat because they're ruining the furnature ect. A neighbour declawed her cat and let it outside, a dog attacked it (it eventually needed to be put down because of the dog) and it could not defend it's self :( It's so sad.

[Abandoned]

as long as its done while they are kittens. My larger cat has been (found him that way) but the smaller one isnt. She doesnt attack the furniture, just the carpet because its hooked. I couldnt imagine doing in now because she is older and wouldnt understand why her feet hurt.

[carole]

I am sorry I cannot see what difference it would make if it is done when they are kittens, kittens feel pain just the same.!!!!

[catnapper]

I'm sorry too... as its the best time to teach the cat not to scratch is when they are kittens. Teach them young and they'll have a lifetime of good habits of not scratching the furniture.

[Zoe'smommy]

Something to think about before deciding to declaw your cat:
7 years ago, I had a cat that I had declawed. She was a 100% indoor cat. I never let her out...but she was let out by mistake. I could not find her. Never did. I would like to think she was taken in by someone, because I can't bear the thought that she was out in the country defenseless. I would never ever do that to my kitty now. If there are other issues, we will work through them. Cats rely on their claws for protection.

[lildemon72]

"I disagree, a home which demands declawing before homing a cat is not a good home but a narrow minded OR uneducated one."

I kind of resent that coment, I have 5 cat children, and when I got them declawed, it was not because I was narrow minded or uneducated. I knew what they were going to do. I really didn't have a whole lot of choices. None of them will go outside, haven't in years, we can leave the door open and they just lay inside the door.
Not to mention the fact that all of the boys, beat the living snot out of my mamma, and they were hurting her. And each other.

I thought that this was supposed to be a place that everyone could share their personal opinions and not be critized or called names.
I have read some of these posts and some of the things people say are just cruel. I have learned in my life, that sometimes it is best not to ask a question, especially if you don't know what the answer might be, cause chances are, you won't like the answer.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by lildemon72
"I disagree, a home which demands declawing before homing a cat is not a good home but a narrow minded OR uneducated one."

I kind of resent that coment, I have 5 cat children, and when I got them declawed, it was not because I was narrow minded or uneducated. I knew what they were going to do. I really didn't have a whole lot of choices. [/B]

The defination of narrow-minded is

not willing to accept ideas or ways of behaving that are different from your own:

You declawed your cats as you could not accept that there was alternatives ideas or training methods, as you said 'I really didn't have a whole lot of choices.' That is a classic defination of narrowed minded, being closed minded to new ideas like owning a clawed cat.

This is not an insult just a description of your situation/attitude

BTW neither is uneducated an insult either, the actual defination is...


having received little or no education

Certainly this does not apply to you as you say you 'knew what they were going to do'

-------------------------------

BTW if you want to show how open minded you are, post for help when you adopt your next cat (as there is always another cat ;) )

We can help you train him/her though the nawtee kitten stage between 4 months and a year.

Once a cat gets to be a year old, they all calm down and start behaving very well regarding scratching etc.

Sadly those cat owners who declaw at the six month stage would never see the natural way a clawed cat calms down as they mature.

[lildemon72]

calm down my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My cats range in ages from 8 years to 9 months. I wasted money on several of those so called alternatives and little suggestions, and when I have to replace my furniture every year, cause the cats tore it up. I chose the alternative.

[PayItForward]

I don't know what you tried however there are hundreds of possible solutions.

A good sturdy cat tree in the right location is the key. Here is our latest trees (big for our 8 furkids)
http://www.declawing.co.uk/scratchingposttree.html
http://www.piftails.com/slideshowannie/1.gif

The tree needs to be in the correct location, ie close to where the cats sleep.

Allow for a full heigh scratch, without the tree wobbling.

All cats have different preferences to a 'good tree'

This varys :-

1 : As to size of tree

2 : As to orientation either vertical or horizontal

3: As to material solid wood, carpet, sisal rope, sisal material, cardboard

There are endless ways of encouraging scratching ON a post and discourage scratching elsewhere, I'm writing an article which I'll post when I have finished it.

[kaoK'okung]

absolutely AGAINST declawing a cat...how about detoothing a dog, or dewinging a bird, or definning a fish???...i have personally lived with 2 declawed cats (not together) and both had severe personality issues. one was so timid and afraid that it always hid, the other became a hisser, hissing at everything and a definite biter...it's like buying a dog and then not expecting it to bark...cats have claws and dogs have teeth, so deal with it or don't get the pet...:) :) :) (hope i am not being rude, i'm a little emotional on this issue)

[Jayna78]

I am TOTALLY against declawing cats - adopting cats that are already declawed is one thing, but declawing them after you adopt them is just unacceptable to me - that's my opinion, that's all.

That being said, I have a question - what would you guys recommend for my mom's new cat - here's the situation: she is the 2nd of their two cats - about 1 year and 5 months old - she came to live with them in Dec 2004. She is just now getting settled with her kitty brother and relaxing in her new home. My mom is starting to really appreciate the fact that she jumps on the couch and sits on her lap and my dad's lap - their other cat isn't much of a lap kitty. However, when she sits down, she really digs her claws in - not intentionally, but her claws seem to be extra long and sharp - even after a claw trim, which they try to do regularly, like my husband and I do with ours. I don't think soft claws is much of an option, b/c she still doesn't like to be picked up - just petted a lot and will sit with you. She really spazzes when someone picks her up even after over 2 months of being with them - they're having to give her meds for her eye (herpes?!?) and her respiratory infection right now which is really hard b/c she squirms so much. What is a good option for her claws? Mom & Dad don't want to declaw her - their other one isn't declawed (he's a polydactyl, in fact) - Mom's cat Missy was declawed (that was many years ago when it was always done) and got out one time and was viciously attacked by a dog with no defense mechanism (Mom still thinks Missy would've lived longer as a whole without that incident - she managed to live 5-10 years more after that, making it to 17) , was injured, and they regret it to this day.

Any suggestions for a cat who's trying to be sweet, but hurting my parents' laps at the same time?

Also, I have 4 cats, and while we trained Bailey to scratch posts when he was a baby, he still has one recliner he likes to scratch (mostly for attention). Leila came to us at 5 months and she is just nuts for sissal and cardboard scratching surfaces, so she's no problem. Leo came to us as a 1-2 year old boy, so it's been really tough with him - he's not much of a vertical scratching post guy - he likes the 2 cardboard things we have, but continues to scratch our recliner mostly, no matter what - sometimes our couch. Claudia mostly scratches what she's supposed to, but occasionally scratches furniture (like Bailey, for attention), and carpet a little, like Leila. Any suggestions for Leo & Bailey and the chair? We know we're going to have to reupholster it before too long - right now it's covered in sheets, but they still manage to scratch it a little. We've tried sticky paws (they scratch to the side of where we place them and they wear out quickly), the various sprays, etc. Nothing seems to deter them if they want to scratch badly enough.

I'd appreciate advice on Mom's cat and my boy cats, if anyone knows of anything. :)

[PayItForward]

I would just fold a blanket several times and put across my lap before medicating the cat.

[angela05]

I am also against declawing. I have adopted 3 cats, all with their claws. We had an old couch which they ripped apart, along with the bed ruffle, the hopechest, the leather chair and more. We were buying new couches and started to get nervous that they would be ripped apart - but we did not want to declaw. We used everything recommended to us in order to lessen the scratching - the sprays, the nail covers, sticky paws, etc. Nothing worked for too long.

Our cats were not vertical scratchers either. We had a 3 foot post that they rarely used. We bought a 7 foot scratching post/cat tree. I was hoping that they would use it. Well, they live in it - they can jump, scratch (not just vertically). And if you spray catnip on it - that's a big help. :-) We also bought a smaller post and put it by the couches - and they use it, not the couches.

Another thing that seemed to help. When we first got the new couches, we were always watching the cats out of the corners of our eyes. When they did try to scratch (it is natural), we would say no and stop the paws before they started (gently of course). It seemed to work because they hardly ever scratch anything except the scratching posts and we can trust them without having to always keep an eye on them.

[hootchlid]

indoor kitties i am for it,but use the laser surgury option much more expensive but way faster healing time and only do the fronts.


outdoor kitties- i am against it. this is for both the outdoor and indoor/outdoor kitties the ones the go in and out.Because they need them to defend themselves from other cats and animals.

[kaoK'okung]

i must repectfully disagree...my cats Zip and Shy are indoor cats, and they are still the way they were when i got them...WITH claws...they are cats, these wonderful creatures are born with claws, that is how it is...if you are going to have indoor cats and have expensive furniture then it is up to the RESPONSIBLE cat owner to train the cats properly, so as to minimize any damage, if this isn't an option, too quote someone earlier...GET A GOLDFISH!!!!....we don't detooth dogs because they bite do we???...how about debeaking the bird because it pecks???...it's like buying a tarantula as a pet and ripping it's fangs out becuse you're afraid it will bite you...ummm, it's a spider, they have fangs and bite......:) :) :)

[sammy101]

Bear got her front feet declawed.This happened when i was little,so i had no say in it.She is declawed,and i personally dont have a problem with it.She's a old kitty now and rarely goes out,and is very wobbly when she walks.Bear was declawed when she was older,i believe it was when we move to Louisiana from Canada.In Canada,she was outside all that time.She never was/is in pain from getting declawed.
I personally wouldnt do it now.

[Cataholic]

Originally posted by Cataholic
ACGAS and YLL,

I have six cats, all of them declawed, at my request. I have no one to blame it on but me. Having said that, I will tell you I have changed my position, based on education, and tolerance. I would not declaw my next cat...which, because of Binx and Tex's health, and Minnie's reclusivenss, will not be anytime in the near future. So, I guess it is easy for me to sit here and tell you what I won't be doing in the future, after having done it in the past. In fact, I imagine my post might be a little bit unbelievable. I feel hypocritical. I can only tell you, after education, I have changed my mind. I am against declawing, and can assure you, the last thing I ever want to do is 'eat my words'...I won't do it.

I ask that you really really educate yourself, and think things through carefully (as I know you will).

Johanna


P.S.- I am also against docking, cropping, breeding, etc!!!


Good Lord, did I really write this all that time ago? At least I can now shout from the rooftops- I AM AGAINST DECLAWING! And, have Monte to show for it. :D

Monte came into my home 12/03, fully wheeled, and ready to wreck havoc on my life. I do have a brand new couch that has some 'wear' on it..he he..from Monte, that's life with cats. I do have Jonah (came into my home 9-04) and on rare occasions, he gets a scratch from Monte. That is life with cats. I get scratches from all the cats, that is life with cats.

I can state from first hand experience, there isn't any problem with one clawed kitty and 6 declawed ones. Monte's claws are NOT the problem His temperment and youthful exuberance, maybe. His claws? NOT.

I do trim his claws, usually front only, when he is napping, and usually can get it done at one time.

To those people that say they do it as they have pride in their homes...I say...what do you propose I do with Jonah? He really chooses the most inappropriate places to spit up. AND, his dirty diaper has stained a shirt or two of mine. Oh, he sometimes spits his food out, and it gets on the wall. What shall I do?:rolleyes:

[kaoK'okung]

glad that you have changed your mind, cataholic, and i'm fairly certain that so is monte:) :) .(.your honesty and openess, is also nice)...thnx for sharing your experience...

[IRescue452]

My cat Sonny was front declawed thirteen years ago because my parents felt it was better. I personally wouldn't do so because of the alternatives available. I like soft claws products. The county vet here does not do a good job declawing. Three people I know have brought home cats with bleeding paws and nerve problems that last the cat's life. My mom's friend has a siamese that has limped on the sides of its paws for years because of being declawed. When I volunteered at the local humane society I kept the cats' nails well trimmed so people didn't look in the cages and see talons coming at them like they do sometimes when nobody cuts their nails.

[sandragonfly]

totally against, period and period is PERIOD. end of discussion. :D

a sad story: I adopted a dear little fluffy, clayton and his previous owner NEVER mentioned anything about declawed him. I found him with NO claws when I pet him all over with my love...about a week after I got him. "what the........???!" he looked at me gorgeously innocent... he couldn't talk!! :mad:

[katie&pets]

I am totally against declawing. My Buffy kitty just got declawed and just insn't her self. All she wants to is lay around and get left alone. She is usally running my family up the walls. And is a good entertainer if the satilite goes out.

[kaoK'okung]

well katie, we all learn from our experiences...just give lots and lots of love!!!...(i'm certainly not a vet, nor an expert)...i can only talk from personal experience and the 3 declawed cats I lived with were not normal as i know cats...they were VERY defensive and offstandish...i only hope the best for you and your cats!:) :) :)...

[greendoor678]

I'm very much against declawing for many of the same reasons posted here on P.T.

One thing that aggravates me, is when a new cat owner has the immediate reaction to declaw the pet after only one incident (or in some cases: no incidents!)
I think it's sad.

[ANTH055]

First off, I'd like to say, I do not own a cat. That said, my fiance is a cat lover through and through. She's all for the humane treatment of all animals, as am I. We do, however, agree on one thing, if your cat stay's indoors, get the thing declawed.

I've read alot of the posts in this thread, and I've read alot of nonesense from alot of supposed educated cat people. like this payitforward person. Ignorance doesn't even begin to describe you, among some other people here. You seem to attack people for choosing to declaw their cat. It's their decision, leave them to it.

As far as some of you people saying a person does not love their cat because they got it declawed, or they should own a fish, or whatever...get over it!! After reading a few of these posts I was compelled to reply to it. I love the one where payitforward says someone is narrow minded for not checking out all the other options, before declawing a cat. All this person seems to think about is don't declaw, don't declaw, don't declaw. Even for a justified reason. Hell, because the owner wants to have their cat declawed is justified reason enough. It's more justified when you want to protect the contents of your home, like furniture, walls, whatever. Don't declaw, Don't declaw, Don't declaw...anyone see anything narrow minded here??

To those of you who would say not to have a cat if your worried about furniture, and people care more about their furniture than their cat, I say this... my fiance has a cat, she loves it more than anything and she chose to have it declawed. She would not want to know life without a cat, so should she not have a cat because she prefers to have it declawed?? Of course she should have a cat, because she is a loving person who chooses to give her love to one lucky cat.

Those of you who say it is cruel...if it's done when the cat is a kitten, yes it still feels pain (supposedly. No one really knows), but the pain is not remembered. It's the same as circumcized babies, they don't remember the pain. I'm sure alot of you neuter your pets, this also could be looked upon as cruel (I'm sure some of the extreme cat people on here think it is), but is accepted because cat's, like all other animals have no concept of birth control. They also have no concept of not ruining my leather couch and my custom home theatre, and, although I love animals, I love my home theatre too!!

There are other options, right?? Sure train the cat not to scratch, that will work, until that ONE TIME when it decides to have a go at my coffee table. Caps, on the end of the claws?? I, personally, would rather have my nails removed than have plastic or rubber caps glued to my nails. One question here...can the cat even retract it's nails with these abominations on?? If it can (although I can't see how) the extra space taken up by the caps will also cause pain permanantly. If they can't retract their nails while wearing these silly inventions, well, wouldn't that be slightly uncomfortable too??? OF COURSE IT WOULD!!! Did you so called cat lovers who think declawing is inhumane think about that one???

I may not own a cat, but I will be inheriting one in two months when my fiance and I move into our new house. Someone here said that people should not comment, or know nothing about cat's if they don't own one. Well genious, I've had dogs all my life. I'm very good at training, have read many books on the subject and my dog Mickey, a beautiful Golden Retriver, is an amazing dog. When I move, I've decided to leave him with my parents, they are retiring soon and love him to bits. So, when I move and no longer have a dog, should I not comment on dog's because I don't own one??

It's funny how most of you think your so much better than others because your againt declawing, and think other's love their cat's less because they choose to declaw. Do any of you people have kids?? Babies for that matter?? Must be nice when your kid get's all scratched up by your special cat. Well, I'll be having kids in the next couple of years, and although I'm not going to have our kid declawed, or circumcized for that matter, I can sleep at night knowing our baby wont need a new eye because a cat's claw accidentally tore it out. If you think that sounds rediculous, you should really review what some of you have said on here, rediculous doesn't even begin to describe it.

One thing's for sure, my leather couch, my home theatre, my car, my coffee table, fridge, carpet, walls, and yeah, even my future kids will all be intact, because I decided I'd be smart and make sure our cat is declawed. Do I think material things are more important than life itself?.. no, but I REALLY love my home theater and my leather couch. All of you who disagree with me can KMA!!! <you can figure that one out on your own.

[kaoK'okung]

Originally posted by kaoK'okung
i must repectfully disagree...my cats Zip and Shy are indoor cats, and they are still the way they were when i got them...WITH claws...they are cats, these wonderful creatures are born with claws, that is how it is...if you are going to have indoor cats and have expensive furniture then it is up to the RESPONSIBLE cat owner to train the cats properly, so as to minimize any damage, if this isn't an option, too quote someone earlier...GET A GOLDFISH!!!!....we don't detooth dogs because they bite do we???...how about debeaking the bird because it pecks???...it's like buying a tarantula as a pet and ripping it's fangs out becuse you're afraid it will bite you...ummm, it's a spider, they have fangs and bite......:) :) :)

and i'll say it again!!!! ;) ;) ;)

[ANTH055]

ummm, it's a spider, they have fangs and bite

ummm, they also devenomize lethal spiders before they are sold as pets, ummm.

[IRescue452]

I already posted an opinion on here but forgot to add that Sonny has gotten his back nails stuck in carpeting and blankets and has ripped them to a point of bleeding several times. The vet we brought him to for his front claws 14 years ago did a wonderful job and he never seemed to be in pain afterwards. I think that declawing should be regulated greatly but not illegal.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by ANTH055
Ignorance doesn't even begin to describe you, among some other people here.
Nice attitude.

Originally posted by ANTH055

One thing's for sure, my leather couch, my home theatre, my car, my coffee table, fridge, carpet, walls, and yeah, even my future kids will all be intact, because I decided I'd be smart and make sure our cat is declawed. Do I think material things are more important than life itself?.. no, but I REALLY love my home theater and my leather couch. All of you who disagree with me can KMA!!! <you can figure that one out on your own.
My house and furniture is all intact too and I am very smart as I didn't spend any money on declawing operations. Just five minutes a day to train my cats when they first arrive here as adults or kittens. No big deal.

I am not narrow minded in my attitude to declawing far from it, I have an open challenge on my declawing site, looking for any advantage to the cat in being declawed.

If I found one advantage to the cat in being declawed, I would change my mind on this issue. However the only reasons which have been put forward to date have been owner related reasons.

Feel free to post on this thread or on my declawing site, if you can think of any advantage to the cat in being declawed. I even allow guests to post without registering in this section, as some people would not post if they had to put a name to their post.
Main site
http://www.declawing.co.uk/
Declawing section
http://www.piftails.com/forum/upload/forumdisplay.php?f=17

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by IRescue452
I already posted an opinion on here but forgot to add that Sonny has gotten his back nails stuck in carpeting and blankets and has ripped them to a point of bleeding several times.
Trimming his claws weekly would have been just as effective. I do this with our older cat George and as long as we trim his claws (2 minutes once a week) he no longer catches his claws on anything. Just a thought.

[katie&pets]

Originally posted by moosmom
Nodgeness,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. As you can see, the majority is against it. You shouldn't say bushit!!

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by katie&pets
You shouldn't say ***** !!

If you look at the number of votes on the poll at the top of this page the majority of voters are against declawing.

135 (76.27%) of voters are against declawing
26 (14.69%) of voters are in favor of declawing

So Moosmom statement is an 100% accurate fact.

PS. I have blanked out your rude word in my quote as this is meant to be a child friendly site.

[Bubblehead1123]

Im against it.... I think its mean to do to the poor animals, have someone rip off all your nails... I dont think you would like it.

[carrie]

The entire issue of declawing raises far reaching questions.

The reason for man domesticating animals in the first instance was to exploit them. The dog is generally regarded as the first domesticated creature - it helped in finding food, cleaning up the camp and protecting it. The horse made man faster, stealthier and saved time and effort. The cat was domesticated for the very attributes we now feel uncomfortable with - it kills the things that seek to share our agricultural resources.

Genetically modified plants and animals are a huge issue in the modern world - and to my mind, rightly so - but we have tried to select for genetic traits in our domestic animals for thousands of years and created animals that suit our purposes rather than the original design that nature had for them. We have dairy and beef cows genetically manipulated, by us, to grow into money for us. We have cereal crops that have been hybridised to ensure the fullest crop we can attain in any given environment.
All this and much, much more before we start talking about GM.

The issue of a few hundreds of thousands cats a year getting their claws taken out may seem trivial against all the new worries and issues we have to deal with.

But to understand what we are changing with an "idea" of "certainty" now, we must understand the damage we have done already.

Countless islands have been decimated of unique fauna by the introduction of domestic cats.

For many years in the UK the domestic cat has been blamed for the most kills of birds that are seen as declining or at risk (not always the case - and research needs to focus on pesticide use, hedgerow loss, field size, public access and a host of other things!), cats are not always the main villans but they sure play their part!

Is this the cat's fault?

The only answer to that is NO.

What do us humans then do to recitfy a bad situation? In some places you can't have cats outdoors - is this fair considering we made the domestic cat the way it is?
In some places there is little restriction - is this fair on the local wildlife?
In some places people choose to have cats in their house and then find that the cat exhibits natural behaviour using furniture and wall paper that the humans value to do this. Is that fair?

The truth is that it doesn't matter what species the human considers it has domesticated - the natural urges, needs and behaviours will out. A dog will do wolf things, a cat will do cat stuff and a pig will do wild pig stuff. - are we really so far up ourselves that we can consider surgery for the animals we made as a reasonable solution to the problems we have living with them? Do we really NEED a cat to the point that we lose sight of what caring for that cat entails? Are we really so messed that we can't choose the right option between getting a cat and getting a cat that has to have surgery in oder to live with us?

I love cats, I love having them around me - but this cat will be the last. - Surgery is not an issue for me - it wouldn't happen! The amount of little dead bodies at this time of year shows me that there is a problem.

[ladywizz]

QUOTE""It's funny how most of you think your so much better than others because your againt declawing, and think other's love their cat's less because they choose to declaw. Do any of you people have kids?? Babies for that matter?? Must be nice when your kid get's all scratched up by your special cat. Well, I'll be having kids in the next couple of years, and although I'm not going to have our kid declawed, or circumcized for that matter, I can sleep at night knowing our baby wont need a new eye because a cat's claw accidentally tore it out. If you think that sounds rediculous, you should really review what some of you have said on here, rediculous doesn't even begin to describe it.""QUOTE



erm actually yes I do have children, and a cat and have always had cats while i have had childrenas I taught my children to be respectful!! Never to this day have they ever been hurt by them...and why should a cat suffer (which u already own) from having this operation done through no medical reason at all because you dont want a child to get scratched???
If a cat is going to scratch a child, 10 - 1 its because thatchild has hurt it in some way in which case it is up to the parent to teach the child how to respect the animal.....and if the child did it again and did get scratched...well the child probably would learn not to do it again.
Further more...what you have said about declawing....all you seem to be more concerned over is your precious furniture.
I do agree with it if it is strictly for medical purposes, if not then the claw can be trimmed. There are such inventions as scratch posts which most cats will preffer to use.
You will also find that alot of scratching is done through boredom which is why it is also better to have 2 kittens/cats together for play and companionship.
As for nutering a cat...it is not always done for birth control....and when it is done for birth control it is a good reason. After working in a sanctuary, you see an abundance of unwanted kittens just because an irrisponsible owner did not do something about it sooner. There is also proof that it can reduce the risk of certain cancers, and is also extremely valuable when trying to calm down an aggressive animal due to too much hormones!
As for being small minded people, a majority of us are saying that yes people are intitled to their oppinions, and here is ours.
Small minded to me, is a person who just decides to reply to a bunch of posts with his opinion on his valuable furniture.
I hate to tell u....but its not just the cats claws that would wreck your furniture....or did someone forget to mention that they can throw up, chew, and leave lovely parcels for you as well.....and no....not because they are un-trained....but possibly because they are ill.
You want kids???!!! if i were u, i would take their nails off, extract their teeth and place corks in certain places so they wont harm your beloved possesions......oh yes...and do watch out for that toast being posted into your VCR too.

[Cataholic]

I just want to comment on the thought that somehow a child will get scratched because a cat has all its claws. I have 6 declawed cats- all my uneducated choice. I have one clawed cat- my educated choice.

WAY before I got Monte (back in the calm peaceful days), I had many a scratch from many a declawed cat. I never lost an eye (where do people get this crazy stuff from? Statistically speaking, I am sure pencils, cell phone antena, forks, spoons, box tops, etc are far more 'eye poking' that a cat's front claw). If you have cats, you get scratched...if you have dogs, you get scratched. If you drive cars, you get in accidents.

Jonah has had far more bumps and bruises from his rolly-polly ways around the floor than from all the cats put together.

If you have to justify your actions, you might reflect on doing them....

[CagneyDog]

Originally posted by ANTH055
One thing's for sure, my leather couch, my home theatre, my car, my coffee table, fridge, carpet, walls, and yeah, even my future kids will all be intact, because I decided I'd be smart and make sure our cat is declawed. Do I think material things are more important than life itself?.. no, but I REALLY love my home theater and my leather couch. All of you who disagree with me can KMA!!! <you can figure that one out on your own.


Your one shallow person.

Okay, lets rip out your finger nails and see if you enjoy it.

[smokey the elder]

don't feed the troll.

[davidpizzica]

Originally posted by smokey the elder
don't feed the troll. No troll feeding here!

[CamCamPup33]

Like i said before, Cali was declawed.

Now that we have Casey, my mom was asking me to look into declawing, how much it would be etc. I said i would absolutely not, because it's very a very painful procedure. Now that we have a choice to declaw or not, i told her that i wouldn't look into it. I told her how it can alter your cat's personality, cause back problems, etc. I also showed her www.declawing.com and showed her alternate solutions. I can now proudly say, i convinced my mom not to declaw Casey.

My mom never understood what harm it could cause your cat, and now that i showed her these different sites, she thinks it's a very horrible thing to do and i couldn't agree with her more.

[kaoK'okung]

WTG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....good job!!!!...:D :D :D

[lvpets2002]

:mad: I am very much against & it is cruel & cats are meant to have claws & if not then they would not have been born with them. If a person is worried about indoor cat & the furniture issue then I feel that should have been thought about before the cat was brought home. There are lots of diff. ways to avoid furniture clawing & getting a cat declawed is the Chicken Crap way out & what if the cat ever has to have another home & can not be indoors? :o Think of that for a while!!!

[JenBKR]

I am personally against declawing. I recently talked a good friend out of declawing cat and her boyfriend's cat also. Have any of you guys ever heard of having a cat's tendons cut? My aunt had that done to hers. I don't know much about it, but I guess that keeps the cat from being able to retract it's claws. Does anyone know anything about this?

[lvpets2002]

:( Sounds Ouchy & have heard some & like you dont know much about it. What does your aunt state of what & how her cat reacts.

[JenBKR]

Originally posted by lvpets2002
:( Sounds Ouchy & have heard some & like you dont know much about it. What does your aunt state of what & how her cat reacts.



She says her cats act the same (she actually had two of them done). I have no problems with either of my cats scratching, so I have never considered having it done. The thought of them going through all the pain of declawing would bother me too much. They have a scratching post that they like, other than that they don't bother anything. We did used to have a wicker chair, which I found out they like more than the scratching post! LOL It was old anyway so we got rid of it. I can honestly say I love my pets WAY more than any furniture!!

[davidpizzica]

Oh, I agree. There is a chair in my living room with some battle scars from when I first adopted my two, but I don't mind because I can always replace the chair, but my two furbabies are irreplaceable! Totally against declawing!

[G535]

I really can't understand how anyone can be for declawing and still claim to love cats. I would never put any cat through that, it's just so wrong.

[epistoliere]

I never had declawed cats. It takes a few weeks of training and cats know where they can scratch. When you have to leave your cats alone, for work or else, you can put old blankets on your furniture and spray some repellent on it. It always worked for me. Spraying water is efficient also. Cutting nails help too. It is true that some declawed cats have the tendency to bite when they play, and it can be unpleasant for humans or other pets. Also, for some cats, their paws can be painful for their entire life; I knew one that would not go in its litter because he could not scratch and bury his "production" because it was too painful even after a few years. In short, I am totally against declawing.

[Jordan]

Originally posted by deed766
I'm pretty new here and i know alot of you are against declawing, but i would like to get some feedback on what to do regarding my living situation. Here goes:


I have a wonderful cat, her and i have been happy together from 2-3 years. My rent in my apartment was getting way out of my price range and i decided to move. Problem- I have just moved into a band new apartment that has very strict regulations for cat and dog owners. In order for me to keep my cat and to keep my apartment, i will have to do something to control the cat scratching. She has already scratched the side of walls, the carpet (furnished by the apartment), and my new furniture. I had tried all kind of things to prevent this. I have learned now that its either to put her in a shelter or go for the surgery. What should i do? I really rather her not go through any bodily harm, but do i really have a choice?

Hi! Have you heard about Feliway ? Is a product based on feline pheromones and is used to stop cats spraying and scratching.

Some furthe information:

http://www.ehealth-solutions.com/cat-behavior.htm

or in UK:
http://www.feliway.uk.com/feliway_uk.nsf/Page?OpenForm

I hope you could solve this problem without have to quit of your cat!

Best regards:cool:

[moosmom]

How about putting nail caps on her?? They're called "Soft Paws" and can be purchased at any pet store. I have a friend who SWEARS by them! They're easy to apply too.

[Jennsen]

Personally, I am against declawing for my cats. But...if someone is having a problem with their cat scratching on the furniture, ect...and their options are
1.declawing the cat and keeping it in the family
or
2.taking it to the humane society where it probably wont be adopted, or if a humane society is not available in your area you pay $25 to them for accepting your cat...and in those cases, people will take their cat to a country road and just drop it off to fend for it's self.

I used to live in the country and I had so many dogs and cats just dropped off in front of our house by their horrible owners! Let me tell you a story about my neighbor there who did take in a puppy dropped off at his house. He had it about a month, and then decided he didnt want it anymore, so he tried to kill it by shooting it. Well, he missed and wounded it and the dog went running down to our other neighbors house. They found it and brought it back to it's home, saying " Ray! someone shot your dog and we found him at our house" Ray then took the poor dog into his barn and fearing the neighbors would hear another gun shot, he took a sledge hammer and beat it to death!

Now, I would rather have a cat declawed instead of something like this happen to it!

[G535]

I value my cat(s) more than any furniture. I think most genuine cat lovers would too. To me it seems rather silly to spend thousands on a fancy lounge suite if one has cats.

[davidpizzica]

Originally posted by G535
I value my cat(s) more than any furniture. I think most genuine cat lovers would too. To me it seems rather silly to spend thousands on a fancy lounge suite if one has cats. I do, too. My one chair has battle scars on it from Nikki and Daisy. They use their scratching pad a lot more now, though. I would much rather love my cats to pieces than to worry about scratching my good furniture BW, G535, those are pictures of my two in my sgnature. Nikki is the tuxedo kitty and Daisy is my tortoiseshell kitty.

[G535]

Nice cats david p, I must take a picture of mine (and his sharp claws!) as soon as I can find a reasonably priced digital camera.

[davidpizzica]

Originally posted by G535
Nice cats david p, I must take a picture of mine (and his sharp claws!) as soon as I can find a reasonably priced digital camera. G535, I volunteer with Cat Sense, a cat rescue organization in Pittsburgh. Both Nikki & Daisy were rescued. Poor Nikki had an abusve owner before and was given up when the owner became pregnant. Now Nikki is Queen of this house!

[Jennsen]

Originally posted by G535
I value my cat(s) more than any furniture. I think most genuine cat lovers would too. To me it seems rather silly to spend thousands on a fancy lounge suite if one has cats.

I totally agree with you G535! I havent had a piece of new furniture in 25 years, and all my cats are allowed to scratch on any thing they want to.
All I was saying was, when some people, who dont have the common knowledge that a true cat lover has, get frustrated or angry at their cat(s) for reasons such as furniture ect..., sometimes it's better for the cat to be declawed and live out it's life as it has been, rather than being dumped out on a dirt road!

They probably could not resist that cute little kitten when it was a baby, and never thought about what happens when kittens grow up. In my opinion, these are the people who have no business owning a cat or any other animal. But unfortunately, this happens everyday and the animal suffers for it when they grow up. :mad:

[G535]

Sorry Jennsen, my comments were not directed at you! I had just read the whole thread again and was rather annoyed that some people value furniture more than their cats. In my most outspoken opinion those people should not be allowed to have cats! :)

I love all cats.

[Jennsen]

Hey, all is good G535! I feel exactly the way you feel about it! :)

[tvt]

I'll stick my neck out to be different.
I am all for declawing house-only cats. My previous cat was declawed on all 4's because of owning nice furniture. I now have one cat that is front declawed only, and one that is not declawed at all. I also now have one very shredded piece of "nice" furniture. The cat that has all claws, well... she shredded my loveseat even though I have a scratch board for her use.

Of the 3 cats that were all declawed in different ways- 1 totally, 1 only on front, and 1 not declawed at all- none of them knew the difference. The front declawed cat still claws the laundry baskets and me, but she does no harm to anyone or anything. My previous cat that had all 4's declawed was always scratching at things, doing no harm. The cat that has all 4's clawed, well... there you go... i'm 100% FOR declawing house-only cats.

[kittycats_delight]

Originally posted by tvt
I'll stick my neck out to be different.
I am all for declawing house-only cats. My previous cat was declawed on all 4's because of owning nice furniture. I now have one cat that is front declawed only, and one that is not declawed at all. I also now have one very shredded piece of "nice" furniture. The cat that has all claws, well... she shredded my loveseat even though I have a scratch board for her use.

Of the 3 cats that were all declawed in different ways- 1 totally, 1 only on front, and 1 not declawed at all- none of them knew the difference. The front declawed cat still claws the laundry baskets and me, but she does no harm to anyone or anything. My previous cat that had all 4's declawed was always scratching at things, doing no harm. The cat that has all 4's clawed, well... there you go... i'm 100% FOR declawing house-only cats.


They don't know the difference. Why don't you go look at what is done to these cats? They know the difference. There is a reason you are kept away from them for 2 days. They scream with pain after a declawing. You need to educate yourself before you go sticking you big foot in your even bigger mouth. You are far from a respectable pet owner. Any decent pet owner would not put their pets through what you have put your pets through for the sake of a bloody piece of wood covered in fabric.

[luvofallhorses]

I couldn't agree with you more, Michelle! :)

[luvofallhorses]

Also, I am against declawing 100% I think it is unneccessary and cruel :( Why take away their defense? :confused: They need their claws to protect themselves where they feel threatened. I really think jmho here that declawing should be against the law as well as ear cropping and tail docking.

[davidpizzica]

Kittycats-delight, that was very well said! I would NEVER torture a poor kitty to save a stupid piece of furniture.

[tvt]

TO ALL CLAWED CAT OWNERS WHO RESPONDED TO ME:
maybe the next time i should just leave the cats out in the rain with all their matted balls of hair and worms and empty bellies, or let the people keep kicking the cat in the ribs and who knows what else, since i seem to be so disrespectful for letting the cats share my nice clean home, minus their claws and not allowed to jump on counters. Is that being cruel too, not letting them jump on my countertops????

[tvt]

oh, and p.s.- i am keeping the cat and the furniture!!!

[G535]

I feel sick!

To think that "cat lovers" could do something like that to a poor cat for any reason. :(

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by tvt
TO ALL CLAWED CAT OWNERS WHO RESPONDED TO ME:
maybe the next time i should just leave the cats out in the rain with all their matted balls of hair and worms and empty bellies, or let the people keep kicking the cat in the ribs and who knows what else, since i seem to be so disrespectful for letting the cats share my nice clean home, minus their claws and not allowed to jump on counters. Is that being cruel too, not letting them jump on my countertops????
Loved inside cats with claws and owning nice furniture are NOT mutually exclusive. Rescue all the cats you want but don't rip off their claws for the privilege of having a home. It is possible to provide a good home for your rescue cats without resulting to surgery.

There is no advantage to your cat in being declawed....not one. I know, as I have an open challenge on my forum inviting pro-declawers to defend their decision to Declaw and all responses to date have been selfish owners based reasons NEVER a benefit for the cat. But the challenge remains open just in case.

Sadly it comes down to one basic fact. There are only two sorts of people who Declaw their cats.

One set who have little or no knowledge of the possible side effects and have been told by family, friends or their vet that declawing is a great idea. For these group I feel pity as they will never enjoy their cats stretching, playing and climbing properly.

The second set are lazy cat owners who know the facts and risks of Declawing but do it anyway as training their cat for five minutes a day is too much hassle, so they go for the easy option for themselves...sod the poor cat.

If you are in the first group, please post when you adopt your next cat as there is always a next cat, why not post for help in training your cat and avoid the cost and possible behavioural problems linked to Declawing. After all it only takes five minutes a day to post train a cat, no hassle at all. We can help you.

If you are in the second group, all I can do is hope from the bottom of my heart, that none of your cats start a declawing related behavioural problems of biting or weeing outside the litter tray.

After all...if scratching is a crime enough to result in permanent removal of claws and foot tissue, what would the punishment be for urine stained floorboards or a nasty bite ?

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by G535
To think that "cat lovers" could do something like that to a poor cat for any reason. :(
Cat Lovers don't..Cat Owners do

[tvt]

I have done everything that was advised for me (from the humane society, vet, other cat "owners" as I'm now titled) to stop the loveseat from being shredded, including putting catnip on the scratch board. Nothing worked, obviously, as she still does it. I am not getting this cat declawed, so don't no one else cringe that I might do something "inhumane".
Let me ask you all this--- why not talk to the vets in your areas about using a pain killer for the cats until the paws heal? I asked my vet when I had my previous cat done and she did prescribe something to use. You all make it sound like the cat isn't even put under anesthetic or anything, the vet just starts ripping claws out. It's not that way!

[luvofallhorses]

I cannot believe a vet suggested to have your cats declawed :( My vet would never suggest that..

[kittycats_delight]

My vet wouldn't declaw period !!!! Just like 80+% of vets. Would you like it if we took you say because you kept scratching and pulled out your nails and removed your fingers to the first joint?????

Maybe then you would get the idea?????

Oh maybe we can amputate a leg of yours and stick you on pain killers. And of course the amputation would not be for medical reason it would be just for the hell of it or because you walk to heavy.

You need to search online find some documented evidence of what these animals go through and the procedure. And if you vet suggested declawing it because he is in it for money not for the animals.

[luvofallhorses]

Again, well said Michelle :)

[tvt]

i never said my vet suggested declawing!!! I said i asked her how to stop the cat from clawing the furniture. i also said she let my cat have pain meds. get your stories straight, people, or else zip the lip.

[kittycats_delight]

Originally posted by tvt
I have done everything that was advised for me (from the humane society, vet, other cat "owners" as I'm now titled) to stop the loveseat from being shredded, including putting catnip on the scratch board.


Originally posted by tvt i never said my vet suggested declawing!!! I said i asked her how to stop the cat from clawing the furniture. i also said she let my cat have pain meds. get your stories straight, people, or else zip the lip


Now as far I can see you just completely contradicted yourself. I think you need to remember what you say before you open your mouth.

Also, I have noticed that your threads have all been complaining.

First because your son went away and you wanted to toss his dog out. And then complaining about your cat showing affection in licking you. Then you come out with being for declawing simply to save your precious furniture. You don't deserve to have a cat. Or another other animal for that matter. They are possessions to you. Something you can so "Oh look what I have" but the minute they behave not to your liking it toss it away or rip out it's claws. I think you need to step back and take a look at yourself as a pet owner. You think you are saving them cause you take them into your home but you subject them to misery of declawing and lord forbid if they do something remotely naughty and cat like. They must be good little furrballs and just sit and look pretty and entertain you.

I pity your poor animals. They are nothing more than objects.

[tvt]

Some people...
I was asking the vet how to stop the cat from tearing up my furniture, along with other advisors, and the destructive behavior couldn't be stopped. Even though the cat STILLl has all her claws and I STILLl have my "precious furniture" and she is well-fed and happy to rule the household by doing anything and everything she wants, it's STILLl not good enough for you. Just come and get her- is that what you want me to say??? (I better watch what I say because you twist things.)

And yes, we want to find our dog another home because he has to be chained up living here, and there are no kids for him to play with. What is so wrong with us wanting something better for him? Or do you think it's more cruel to let someone else enjoy him than it is to keep him chained up all the time where he can't run and play????

And for the record, ms. know-it-all do-no-wrong, I have given in to the licking because it wasn't hurting me or her physically, and so I lost the fight and the battle on that one. BIG DEAL!!!

You, Honey have too much time on your hands and you need to get a life!!!

[kittycats_delight]

Well as for the dog. Why would he have to be chained up now that you son is gone? No time for the puppy? Just something to keep your son quiet and happy while he was home?

And as for getting a life. Are you not suppose to be an adult. Not just a young adult either considering you have a child in college.

And if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. You are the one that originally said I'll stick my neck out here and be different.

No one agrees with your reasoning for doing what you have done to your cats. You had no right to deform them and torture them by declawing them. PERIOD !!!!

And as for you giving into the licking. Well, that was very big of you considering your cat was only showing you affection. But if I recall correctly it irritated you. So the kitty says "thanks so much much mom for letting me love you. I hope it wasn't too bad an experience for you."

Now I am done responding to your unjustifiable actions of having your previous cats declawed. So rant and rave and behave like a child all you want. I am now being the adult and finishing this conversation with you.


You are obviously in category #2 as PIF put it. You know what you did and you just don't care cause it suited you.

Finished...Complete....No More.

There is no arguing with someone who thinks they are right even when there is proof otherwise.

[tvt]

I can justify everything, but like you said yourself....there's no arguing with someone who thinks they are right even when there is proof of otherwise. You lack proof of how you are right, though.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by tvt
I have done everything that was advised for me (from the humane society, vet, other cat "owners" as I'm now titled) to stop the loveseat from being shredded, including putting catnip on the scratch board. Nothing worked, obviously, as she still does it.
What have you tried to train your cat ?

If you have the time to answer the questions below, I'm sure that you'll recieve many bits of useful post training tips.

Do you have the right cat tree for your cat, either horizontal or vertical covered with a desired scratching item....i.e. wood with or without bark, cardboard, carpet (right or wrong way out), sisal (rope or material) ? Look at where she/he scratches to give you a clue as to the type of post to buy.

Is this post sturdy and does not rock even if the cat stretches his/her full weight on it ?

Where is the post located in reference to where the cat sleeps ?

How did you show your cat what a scratching post is and how to use one ? (Cats learn from example or being shown, they are not mindreaders)

What positive reward did you use with your cat when she used the post ? An essential part of training a cat..simple as verbal praise and cuddles or a play session with a good toy or a food treat.

What did you use to cover the non post items/areas which are being scratched ? Can use depending on item...clingfilm, tinfoil, wool blanket, double sided sticky tape, etc

Be consistant with your post training and your cat will learn.

How old is your cat ? I ask as kitten sometime are naughty when being post trained.

Also lightweight catnip cardboard scratching boards are popular in our house even though they are not sturdy and move a lot our cats sit on them to stop them moving too much.

In total our cat herd have three cat trees covered in carpet and sisal rope both vertical & horizontal areas to scratch and also enjoy these light cardboard scratchers too.


I am not getting this cat declawed, so don't no one else cringe that I might do something "inhumane".
Good, glad to hear it.

Let me ask you all this--- why not talk to the vets in your areas about using a pain killer for the cats until the paws heal? I asked my vet when I had my previous cat done and she did prescribe something to use. You all make it sound like the cat isn't even put under anesthetic or anything, the vet just starts ripping claws out. It's not that way!
Declawing is illegal in England. I do understand pain meds are given at the time but the cats still has to live his/her entire life without being able to stretch properly as cats NEED their claws to fully stretch.

Your declawed cats will get stiff joints at an earlier age and have problems balancing and climbing at an earlier age than a normal clawed cat.

All operations performed on cats/dogs etc should ONLY be done, when it is in that animal's benefit to have the operation.

As the declawing operation has no advantage to the cat it should never be performed.

Altering is benefical to the animal and gives several health related benefits and so should continue to be performed.

[tvt]

PayItForward,
Thank you so much for the opportunity to explain, although I feel like I shouldn’t even humor anyone with anymore responses because I know that “kittycats_delight� is watching and will keep twisting everything I say. But, as I stated in a previous posting, I CAN justify everything, so this is my last effort to straighten things out….
1) I have “owned� many cats, clawed and declawed
2)The cat that is shredding my “precious� furniture is NOT and will NOT be declawed AT ALL for ANY reason. If it were going to, it’d been done already.
3)The furniture WAS in excellent condition BEFORE the cat’s adoption, but now it’s a life-size scratching post because her behavior could not be stopped in time to salvage.
4)Everything was offered to my cat to use for a scratching post that was suggested. These items are/were available to her at all times:
She has cardboard.
I bought a scratching post that is like a board with carpet and rope on it. When she refused to use it, I got some catnip and sprinkled some on it to draw her attention . There is a rope to hang the scratching board with, so I draped it over the arm of the loveseat and made sure it wouldn’t move. When she still refused to use it, I laid it on the floor.
She had a scrap piece of carpet.
I bought her own towel.
5)The furniture is cloth so tape won’t stick to it when I tried the foil trick. It would just come off and she would scratch anyhow.
6)She is only clawing living room furniture, but she sleeps wherever she wants. She moves from the loveseat, couch, our bed, her bed, all around. (Yes, she has her own little wrought-iron bed, but evidently I only OWN cats, I don’t love and spoil them.)
7)The cat was almost 2 when we got her. We adopted her from someone else that found her abandoned in the weather. They made sure we would/could provide her with a safe and clean home, even visited our house for her. (I know, What were they thinking!!!!)
8)When in the midst of clawing the loveseat, I take her over to the other items to use and spread her paws to expose the nail to the material, and I use a drawing motion to try to indicate clawing. I use the phrase, “good kitty�, but all to no avail.

So that’s the history of our Mystery. Despite others’ opinions, she really does rule this house.

Oh, and as for the dog issue:
Our son got the dog WITHOUT permission when he was 14, and beings how kids don’t think about the future, yes, we now have a dog chained up in the yard. We can’t let him run loose because we live in town and the neighbors will haul him off to the dog pound even though he stays home and doesn‘t hurt anything or anyone. Because the dog is bored and loves to play with children, which we no longer have living at home, we want to find a more suitable home for him, but evidently it is wrong for us to do to be thinking about the dog‘s happiness in such a way.

[PayItForward]

You are showing her how to use the post spot on, so no problem with that area of training.

May I suggest a heavy wool blanket, can be drabbed over the love seat whilst you train her. If the blanket can be sprayed with a citrus scent (lemon/orange) this will make the loveseat even less attractive to her.

I would recommend an upright post with base rather than a carpet pad (which I think you have from your description).

They do vary a lot in cost and construction. However having the right post is essential to succeed with post training, I really think investing in a medium sized sturdy upright post with carpet or sisal rope would help your training a lot.

Place this new post as close to the now blanketed loveseat as possible, you can move it elsewhere when she is using it regulally.

Then continue to move her to her new post at the first sign of scratching, like you have been doing.

Good Luck

[tvt]

Thank you very much for the suggestions. I was trying to figure out what to spray on the furniture to detract her, but no one seemed to know of anything that wouldn't stain the fabric (when it was new and mattered), but spraying a wool blanket wouldn't hurt anything, would it? Good idea, thank you.

[SUZANNE]

I UNDERSTAND THAT DECLAWING A CAT IS PAINFUL, HOWEVER, I AM MOM TO ALOT OF CATS WHOM ARE ALL FRONT DECLAWED. I HAVE 3 SMALL CHILDREN, AND ALTHOUGH IN A PERFECT WORLD I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT CATS DON'T SCRATCH, WE ALL KNOW THAT IS NOT THE CASE. I DECLAWED MY CATS FOR NOT ONLY THE SAFETY OF MY CHILDREN, BUT ALSO THE SAFETY OF THE CATS. HOW MANY CATS DO WE SEE IN SHELTERS THAT HAVE BEEN SURRENDERED BY THEIR FAMILIES BECAUSE THEY SCRATCHED THE CHILDREN IN THE FAMILY. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I PERSONALLY WOULD TAKE MY CATS TO THE SHELTER IF ONE HURT MY CHILD, HOWEVER, WE ARE ALL AWARE OF WHAT CAT SCRATCH FEVER IS, AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT FIRST HAND. SO ALTHOUGH THE DECLAWING OF CATS MAY SEEM INHUMANE TO SOME, ISN'T IT A BETTER SOLUTION THAN HAVING TO SURRENDER YOU CAT TO A DIFFERENT HOME BECAUSE OF THE HARM IT MAY DO TO A CHILD. ALL OF MY CATS ARE KEPT INDOORS, THEREFORE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PROTECTING THEMSELVES AGAINST OTHER ANIMALS.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by SUZANNE
I UNDERSTAND THAT DECLAWING A CAT IS PAINFUL, HOWEVER, I AM MOM TO ALOT OF CATS WHOM ARE ALL FRONT DECLAWED. I HAVE 3 SMALL CHILDREN, AND ALTHOUGH IN A PERFECT WORLD I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT CATS DON'T SCRATCH, WE ALL KNOW THAT IS NOT THE CASE. I DECLAWED MY CATS FOR NOT ONLY THE SAFETY OF MY CHILDREN, BUT ALSO THE SAFETY OF THE CATS.
I would not trust a normal clawed cat unsupervised with a child under 10 years old..it is just common sense.

However I would NEVER trust a declawed cat with any child of any age, as declawed cats bite instead of scratching and the cats bite causes more damage to a child, plus the germs in a cat mouth are more likely to cause infection in a bite, not nice at all :(


HOW MANY CATS DO WE SEE IN SHELTERS THAT HAVE BEEN SURRENDERED BY THEIR FAMILIES BECAUSE THEY SCRATCHED THE CHILDREN IN THE FAMILY.
I have never heard of a cat being rehomed for this problem in my city or local rescue centres. Though this is properly linked to the fact that as all cats in England are clawed, we accept that cats have claws and deal with it and supervise children with pets. However I would be interested in facts and figures for USA centres, giving up pets due to scratching children.

The only fact I have is that declawed and behavioural damaged cats account for 60% of the cats given up to USA shelters, so declawing these cats didn't give these cats a forever home.


I'M NOT SAYING THAT I PERSONALLY WOULD TAKE MY CATS TO THE SHELTER IF ONE HURT MY CHILD, HOWEVER, WE ARE ALL AWARE OF WHAT CAT SCRATCH FEVER IS, AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT FIRST HAND.
I understood that scratching disease was hard to catch from your cats and if caught was like a cold and people just recover from it.
I rarely get scratches off my cats, however if I'm taming feral kittens, they do scratch a lot and I simply clean any scratch well with antibiotic wash, I have never got sick.

Or if people are very worried there is always soft paws, plastic caps for your cats claws...no need to declaw at all.


SO ALTHOUGH THE DECLAWING OF CATS MAY SEEM INHUMANE TO SOME, ISN'T IT A BETTER SOLUTION THAN HAVING TO SURRENDER YOU CAT TO A DIFFERENT HOME BECAUSE OF THE HARM IT MAY DO TO A CHILD.
Actually children with a declawed cat at home are at more danger from being scratched by clawed cats than a child in a home with a clawed cat. The reason being, children growing up with a clawed cat have to be taught how to handle and love a cat in an good responsible way else they will be scratched. However children with a declawed cat will not be taught to interact correctly with the cat as the cat cannot scratch them, when this child meets a clawed cat outside or at another persons home, petshop etc, they are more likely to prompt a defensive scratch.


ALL OF MY CATS ARE KEPT INDOORS, THEREFORE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PROTECTING THEMSELVES AGAINST OTHER ANIMALS.
Accidents happen and careful cat owners come home to find their cat outside.

Your home could be burgled and the cat kicked outside...happened to an PT poster. The cat was recovered safely from a tree. However had the cat been declawed it would not be able to climb this tree.

Your window screen which is well fitted and safe, might fall out with your cat for no reason !! Again happened to an PT member. She recovered her cat safely several days later, luckily he had claws and could to fight/escape from the local dangers.

Accidents are just that, unavoidable. All cats will statistically end up outside at some point in their lifetime, hence (using your own point) should remain fully clawed so they can survive the experience.

EDIT. I notice whilst you are currently rehoming 10 of your 12 cats you note, that they only get on with older children...is this due to biting or other aggressive behaviour ?
Normal clawed cats get on with children of all ages, with good supervision/training. I myself was born into a home with nine month old Lindy cat and she never scratched or hurt me ever and she was my very good friend until she passed on at 16 years old from kidney problems. Lindy rest in peace.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by tvt
Thank you very much for the suggestions. I was trying to figure out what to spray on the furniture to detract her, but no one seemed to know of anything that wouldn't stain the fabric (when it was new and mattered), but spraying a wool blanket wouldn't hurt anything, would it? Good idea, thank you.
Great, maybe that will help ?

Have you thought about the option of buying a sturdy post and base type scratching post for your cat ? I really think it will help :)

[tvt]

Yes, I have the scratch post on the shopping list for my next check. It will be another week or so I think, but I'll let you know how Mystery does with it.