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Pam
07-29-2003, 09:36 PM
I'm not really comfortable starting threads in the Dog House, although I have done a few. I am starting this one because the subject of Kobe Bryant's guilt/innocence came up at work yesterday in, of all things, an office meeting! Yes, we do get sidetracked sometimes! In the course of the conversation it came out that 6 out of the 7 people in the meeting believe Kobe to be innocent. Now I know that we are just basing this on what is being fed to us via the media, but I was wondering what other people's thoughts are. I commented at the end of the meeting that if we had been his jury he would have gotten a "not guilty." What do you think?

Karen
07-29-2003, 09:42 PM
I do not know the facts - just the media reports, which I do not trust. No opinion from me, please.

KYS
07-29-2003, 10:27 PM
Just last week we had a discussion at work.
My reaction and statement,
"I don't know, and I will not make any judgement
on either of them, till the facts come out at the court trial."

Kfamr
07-29-2003, 10:39 PM
PLEASE! What girl wouldn't want Kobe? I think this girl just wanted to be on the news for a while. :rolleyes:

Twisterdog
07-29-2003, 10:44 PM
I can't vote because I don't know who Kobe Bryant is or what he did. I don't have a TV.

Logan
07-29-2003, 10:55 PM
Good for you, Twisterdog! :)

Kobe Bryant is one of my daughter's heroes. For her sake, I hope he is found innocent, although we have already discussed adultery and the ramifications of that, regardless of the assault charge. We are very disappointed. :(

gini
07-29-2003, 11:16 PM
Pam, a three word reply.

Disappointed

Don't know!

Airedalekisses
07-29-2003, 11:25 PM
I just hope whatever happens he doesn't pull the race card. The prosecuting attorney has received threats, as have the alleged victim's friends. I would hate to be on that jury-I'd hate to be on any jury-I'm a softy.

CathyBogart
07-30-2003, 02:27 AM
It seems half the people here have no idea who this person is or what happened, myself among them. Anyone care to provide a news link or something please? :)

Kfamr
07-30-2003, 03:50 AM
Kobe Bryant is a NBA player. He plays for the LA Lakers. He was charged with sexual assault.

Sara luvs her Tinky
07-30-2003, 06:38 AM
I haven't really followed the story... but wether guilty or innocent .. HE CHEATED ON HIS WIFE.!!!! Why does everyone (not you PT'ers) think this is not a big deal?!?... If anything his wife should leave him and he can date all the girls he wants...:mad: I hope all this is embarassing him enough that he will grow up!

*i'm gettin off my soapbox now*:o

Pam
07-30-2003, 07:12 AM
Interesting thoughts everyone! I was just wondering if our PT folks' impressions were being formed by the media. You are all correct. There has not yet been a trial yet, but so far it does seem that the positive slant the media is giving to him is affecting us, although with a "wait and see" attitude also. Logan, tell Helen that I have a great deal of respect for Kobe as a player too. There were times when the Lakers were playing the 76ers that I wished Kobe was on another team! He helped them way too much! LOL!

I am always discouraged when I see people fall into the adultery trap. It is amazing how many people get caught up in its web - famous and just people in my own little world. I heard a comment from someone the other day and I can't remember the name of the person but they are also in the public eye. Their thoughts on adultery: "Why would I do it and then have to give up half of allI that I own." That's a bit cynical and leads one to believe that they are staying married because of the financial end of it, but unfortunately lots of people think that way.

I guess it is harder for the "famous" to behave than us 'little folks." I am sure there are lots more people throwing themselves at them (not just sexually) than at any of us and they have the money to indulge in all types of decadent behaviors if they so choose. Fame isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

joycenalex
07-30-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Pam
Fame isn't all that it's cracked up to be. [/B] .....they can keep the fame, could i have the intrest from 2 days from their financial accounts?;) .

bnormal
07-30-2003, 08:28 AM
Joyce, could we split it?

:D :D :D

Airedalekisses
07-30-2003, 09:07 AM
I'll be glad to take the $4 million purple diamond ring he gave his wife if she does't want it!!:D

bnormal
07-30-2003, 09:26 AM
Whatever the facts turn out to be in this case their is an element here I just don't understand:

Kobe is rich beyond rich...his wife is gorgeous...he is world famous...what more does he need? He literally can have anything he wants and he chooses a 19 year old girl???

What did he think would happen? Do you think this is the first time that he has done something like this?

Of course the stratosphere that these people live in is beyond most of us. Kobe is still a very young man though. Maybe he will learn something from this?

I'm done.





:D :D :D

KYS
07-30-2003, 09:39 AM
posted by Pam:

I guess it is harder for the "famous" to behave than us 'little folks." I am sure there are lots more people throwing themselves at them (not just sexually) than at any of us and they have the money to indulge in all types of decadent behaviors if they so choose.>>>>>

BINGO!!!
Kobe I believe was picked up at 19 years old and entered the professional world of sports. He became our
American young Hero.
Imagine, being a hero at such a young age and getting
everything you want in life. Nobody telling you "NO"
Many athelets and others of the rich and famous
are treated much differently than the guy off the street,
They are treated as KINGS. In Kobe's mind, he might
not have thought he crossed the line, in the alledged
victems mind she thought he did.
I will still wait for the court trial when the facts come out.

We have a problem accepting that our HERO's are human and can be flawed.
No accuse to cheat, no matter how famous you are.

P.S. If I was his wife, after I support him through the trial,
I would keep the ring, and a chunk of his accets and
divorce the man for cheating on me. :rolleyes:

Sara luvs her Tinky
07-30-2003, 10:11 AM
P.S. If I was his wife, after I support him through the trial,
I would keep the ring, and a chunk of his accets and
divorce the man for cheating on me.:rolleyes:

you are stronger than me.... I wouldn't be able to support him through ANYTHING... talk about losing someones trust!!:eek:

lovemyshiba
07-30-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Kfamr
PLEASE! What girl wouldn't want Kobe? I think this girl just wanted to be on the news for a while. :rolleyes:

I don't want Kobe, but I agree with the other half of your statement--that's just my opinion though.
I think they did whatever, and she saw it as a golden opportunity to bring him down, and make herself "famous" in the process.

Although they have not yet released her name (except on a radio station, and that guy is getting in a lot of trouble), when it's all over, I'm sure she'll write a book, or pose in Playboy, and be on all the shows--instant fame:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

micki76
07-30-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by KYS
P.S. If I was his wife, after I support him through the trial,
I would keep the ring, and a chunk of his accets and
divorce the man for cheating on me. :rolleyes:

Oh, please! Like she didn't know what she was getting into. How many high profile athletes don't cheat on their wives/girlfriends? Probably very few! These women must know what's likely to happen. :rolleyes:

On the rape allegations. We’ll never know for sure. Only two people do and I guarantee you neither is backing down.

RICHARD
07-30-2003, 10:50 AM
a guys point of view?

we can be assured that we probably wont know what happened that night.

no excuses for what he did, he shares 50 % of the blame for even opening the door to his room that night.

flirting is fine, but when you cross the line you may as well start writing checks to everyone.

the worst part about the whole mess is people saying, 'how could he be so stupid??'

stupid how??? and stupid who??

everyone in the story is a dope.

kobe, for opening the door. what the hell were you thinking, dude?? the talk about his maturity - playing a man's game
but what about his immaturity -being a man, playing games?


cate faber (the alleged victim) for heading up to his room.



vanessa, for being bought , what the hell are you gonna do with
a ring that your husband gave you for cheating? show all your friends?? " IS THAT THE RING???? I wish MY husband would cheat!!" nothing like having people look at your hand before they look you in the eyes...


at the risk of getting all the women ticked off at me.....
sensuality/sex is something that women may/or may not
master in their life times-what boggles the mind is how something
can be looked at as a really neat experience can go 180 degrees when the people involved get stupid.

now comes that arguement about women being able to visit a man's hotel room...without being afraid of being raped/molested...

lol,
how's about 5 minutes in the lobby, chatting and signing a John Hancock???

i'm not a huge b ball fan....the inital report was kinda shocking, the followups made me mad and the purchase of the ring just confirmed, for me, just how irresponsible everyone was.

motto of the story???

do not let gravity, desire or anyone pull your pants down.

gini
07-30-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by RICHARD




vanessa, for being bought , what the hell are you gonna do with
a ring that your husband gave you for cheating? show all your friends?? " IS THAT THE RING???? I wish MY husband would cheat!!" nothing like having people look at your hand before they look you in the eyes....

Richard, this is so good..........

And every time she looks at the ring, what does it remind her of?

Nice, really nice!

bnormal
07-30-2003, 12:36 PM
"sensuality/sex is something that women may/or may not
master in their life times"

what exactly does that mean?



:D :D :D

RICHARD
07-30-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by bnormal
"sensuality/sex is something that women may/or may not
master in their life times"

what exactly does that mean?



:D :D :D


again, at the risk of being totally hated....

in the grand scheme of things men are always chasing women.

men and women have a responsibility to themselves and people around them to be 'proper' in the way they act to the other sex.

flirting with people is quite alright but you have to remember that
someone else may not see it as flirtation!

men and women master their sexuality at one point or another in their lives. they know when to 'turn it on' leave it off or not even bother.

sometimes people think a physical encounter is the way to 'make someone like me'....some people use sex as tool, weapon or a misguided attempt to even a playing field.

this gal sounds like she's a troubled soul and was acting without thinking. I think she may have looked at the attention that bryant showed in her and completely misread it.

i blame everyone for what happened....it's just a bunch of little stupid steps that everyone took in one direction......that took them for a walk to a place where NOONE wanted to be....

KYS
07-30-2003, 07:31 PM
posted by bnormal:
what exactly does that mean?
>>>>>

Glad you asked that one, I was thinking the same thing.
Glad you explained it Richard. I thought you were
going to be in the HOT seat for a second.

mugsy
07-30-2003, 10:28 PM
1. I think Kobe is a dope

2. I would not stay married to the man since he cheated....but....that's not my call.

3. The stupid little wench knew exactly what she was doing when she went into that hotel room and probably had it all mapped out.

4. Kobe never should have opened the door and he started thinking with the wrong organ and fell into that black widow's web.

5. Should he be acquitted?? I don't think the charges should have ever been made in the first place. But, then, I wasn't there (Thank God!)

tikeyas_mom
07-30-2003, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Kfamr
PLEASE! What girl wouldn't want Kobe? I think this girl just wanted to be on the news for a while. :rolleyes:

I totally agree, lol. I voted that she wanted him and he went along with it. it is so logical

CathyBogart
07-30-2003, 11:56 PM
I do think that on some level she probably knew what would happen.

HOWEVER, take it from someone who has been there: denial is a powerful thing. It can make you truly believe that nothing at all is going to happen, when all the facts and logical paths of thinking scream "LOOK OUT, YOU'RE ABOUT TO DO SOMTHING STUPID!".

Then there's the "I can stop it whenever I want" mentality, which seems likely to me.

Richard: I agree with you 100%.

As for his wife..I can honestly say that I think she may not even have guessed. Some women are totally blind to their man's faults, no matter how glaringly obvious. Trust me, I spent two years with someone who couldn't seem to remember the meaning of the word 'monogamy' for more than a few weeks. Despite it being crystal clear to -everyone- else, I never believed a word of it. (I'm not so gullible anymore BTW)

So anyways...yeah. I sympathize with everyone involved, and I hope it gets worked out. Without actually being involved I can't make a for sure vote, but it sounds to me like he should be acquitted.

mugsy
07-31-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by WolfChan
Without actually being involved I can't make a for sure vote, but it sounds to me like he should be acquitted.


YEP! Just because you're a slime ball who cheats on your wife, does NOT make you a rapist.

bnormal
07-31-2003, 08:07 AM
"cate faber"

Wasn't that the checkout girl in "Animal House"...daughter of Dean Faber?

:D :D :D

RICHARD
07-31-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by bnormal
"cate faber"

Wasn't that the checkout girl in "Animal House"...daughter of Dean Faber?

:D :D :D


lololololololol....

remember what happened to her???

wasn't she the one they left in front of the house in a shopping cart????


and Kobe did buy his wife a Mercedes Benz for his indisgression....


ain't love grand...

bnormal
07-31-2003, 12:13 PM
"wasn't she the one they left in front of the house in a shopping cart"

I believe that was her!!!

:D :D :D

lovemyshiba
07-31-2003, 12:32 PM
A Benz and a purple diamond--what a lucky gal!!!!!!

I just know so many women out there are wishing right now that their husbands would cheat:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'll keep my Honda and my honest husband, thank you.

gini
07-31-2003, 12:45 PM
Let's see, a diamond and a Benz and he has cheated himself right into court - a court of a different sort.

What a guy!

RICHARD
07-31-2003, 06:07 PM
okay,
now the reports say that Kobe and Cate engaged in
"some consensual sexual contact".....


can someone please tell me how you can be charged with rape for having 'some consensual sexual contact'?

bnormal
07-31-2003, 06:15 PM
'some consensual sexual contact'

Richard, I wouldn't have thought that you could be charged with rape for having "some consensual sexual contact" either...

Just what exactly does "some" mean? Uh, Mr. Clinton, can you explain that term for us?

is means is...no means no...and some means "only" some!


:D :D :D

KYS
07-31-2003, 07:25 PM
posted by RICHARD:now the reports say that Kobe and Cate engaged in "some consensual sexual contact".....
can someone please tell me how you can be charged with rape for having 'some consensual sexual contact'?>>>>>>

I am assuming that the consensual contact
was "4-play and not intercourse, or maybe
he started getting rough, and than she than said NO?
We just will have to wait and see.

Normally, I would think the DA's office would not take
a case on a celebrity unless they think they have
a good case. (of course this did not happen
in a big city, so who knows?)
Any Criminals Lawyers out their with their opinion?

RICHARD
08-05-2003, 12:28 PM
here we go.....

the line that made me lmao was the reason for scheduling the arraignment at 4 central, 6 eastern time......


"so the people of Eagle, Colorado could take care of their business at the courthouse in the morning...."



---------
Memo


To: Richard
From: Common Sense

Don't go to Colorado. Never, ever, ever.

If a small town of 3,000 HAS to schedule a high profile case in the P.M. so that it-

A) can make the six p.m. news on the east coast.

B) and make sure ALL the cases can be heard in the morning, to keep from pissing off the locals.


You can only draw two conclusions-
They are a lawless, crime ridden, town (just what does go wrong in Eagle??? blowing up mailboxes?
cow tipping? running the red light in the middle of town??

And the city fathers decided to opt for the "Dan Rather traveloge"..............

"Dan Rather reporting from Eagle, Colorado where in minutes Kobe Bryant will enter the courtroom for the preliminary hearing in his sexual assault case....."

Tonya
08-05-2003, 01:27 PM
I do not know if he's innocent or guilty. But I do know that there are alot of money hungry people out there targeting the wealthy.

RICHARD
08-05-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Tonya
I do not know if he's innocent or guilty. But I do know that there are alot of money hungry people out there targeting the wealthy.

LOL....including the business people in Eagle...
the morning news commented on the signs on the doors of the businesses in the area reminding the locals to 'no comment' the media.....BUT, i bet the prices of accomodations and food spiked just a bit and the owners of those same businesses are having problems closing the cash drawers on the registers.........

RICHARD
08-06-2003, 06:08 PM
the judge in this trial is a moron...

"Judge Ito, I want you to meet Judge Gannett......"

Airedalekisses
08-06-2003, 11:20 PM
There was a protest here over the fact that Bryant may have his Sprite endorsement yanked. The protesters want everyone to Boycott Sprite. Bryant says he won't get a fair trial in Colorado because it's toooo white. A baseball player( think his name is Cuban-he's not Cuban his name is C-U-B-A-N) said the trial is actually good for the NBA-it brings in money and exposure!!Oh he got into a bit of trouble for saying that.

RICHARD
08-07-2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Airedalekisses
A baseball player( think his name is Cuban-he's not Cuban his name is C-U-B-A-N) said the trial is actually good for the NBA-it brings in money and exposure!!Oh he got into a bit of trouble for saying that.


Mr. Mark Cuban owns the Dallas Mavericks and has been fined over 1 mil for his critisim of the NBA, he team will host the Lakers at the seaon opener on Oct. 27 in Dallas....

i have to admit, as much as I do not like him, his statements were
edited to sound bites..........altho i see the freedom of speech thing ...he owes it to the NBA to be selective as to what he says and how the media will butcher it...

Airedalekisses
08-07-2003, 08:45 AM
thanks Richard, I don't know a lot about sports, Remember when Marge Schott(sp?) got into trouble for calling her players her $miilion N word.

RICHARD
08-07-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Airedalekisses
thanks Richard, I don't know a lot about sports, Remember when Marge Schott(sp?) got into trouble for calling her players her $miilion N word.

you don't need brains to own a team!

2kitties
08-07-2003, 12:26 PM
As far as criminal charges go, I think we can't really base an opinion. We see him, we see the charges. We haven't seen the evidence and we haven't seen the accuser.
I think we need all the info, which I hope the jury will get.

Prairie Purrs
08-07-2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD

---------
Memo


To: Richard
From: Common Sense

Don't go to Colorado. Never, ever, ever.

HEY!! We're perfectly OK here in Colorado. It's just when the folks from California show up that things start getting weird. ;)

babolaypo65
08-07-2003, 04:53 PM
woo hoo! you tell him catsindenver!
Sorry Richard, just wanted to gang up on you in support of my neighbor to the north.


Originally posted by CatsinDenver
HEY!! We're perfectly OK here in Colorado. It's just when the folks from California show up that things start getting weird. ;)

RICHARD
08-07-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
woo hoo! you tell him catsindenver!
Sorry Richard, just wanted to gang up on you in support of my neighbor to the north.

LOL!!

it's not the first time i've ended up getting my fanny kicked by a gal or two..


CID,

just remember the next time there is nothing to do in your part of the country.....you'll be begging for us Cal folk to come tripping thru town....

of course, we'll try and keep it on a 'PG' level....;)

Prairie Purrs
08-07-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
just remember the next time there is nothing to do in your part of the country.....you'll be begging for us Cal folk to come tripping thru town....

Nah--too many of y'all end up staying, and that drives the housing prices sky-high! :D

catland
08-07-2003, 05:18 PM
Well, they should just move the trial to the sane state of Oregon -
...you know, the home of Tonya Harding, Bob Packwood, the spotted owl, and the only state legistature still in session because those bozos can't figure out that the concept of BALANCED BUDGET means that you can't spend any more money than you have.

As home of the "Jail-Blazers" - ahem, I mean, "Trail Blazers", news of an NBA player in trouble with the law is old news to us.

gini
08-07-2003, 05:35 PM
Gosh, I never thought of that. Having Kobe's trial in Oregon could get your state out of debt.

But wait a minute.......I live in California..........sure, we don't have any budget problems here at all:D :D :D

Come on Richard, let's get them to change the venue to California and we could be debt free in no time at all.

RICHARD
08-07-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by gini
Gosh, I never thought of that. Having Kobe's trial in Oregon could get your state out of debt.

But wait a minute.......I live in California..........sure, we don't have any budget problems here at all:D :D :D

Come on Richard, let's get them to change the venue to California and we could be debt free in no time at all.



lol,
I still haven't recovered from the last round of 'celebrity trials'....now that it will cost me 400 dollars to register my truck next time i think we
have the debt pretty well taken care of!

Tonya
08-18-2004, 10:29 AM
The girl obviously didn't have morals sexually if she had multiple partners already. So I cannot imagine her turning him down. What girl wouldn't want him?

The next day,the lightbulb came on, and she thought "Hey, there could be some money in this..."

Edwina's Secretary
08-18-2004, 10:52 AM
I have to wonder why a woman goes to a man's hotel room??? To play Monopoly?? I agree the adultery is wrong....but that is not what he is on trial for....

I worry that in some ways the issue of rape is being used against women.... poor helpless things.....the pedulum has swung from it being all the woman's fault to women having no responsibility (before I get ripped I certainly don't mean that for women who are assaulted....this woman WENT to his hotel room....)

DJFyrewolf36
08-18-2004, 11:08 AM
Until we get ALL the facts, a determination of true guilt or innocence really can't happen. Things were said and done by both parties that Im sure wouldn't be clasified in the brainy category. Now people are POed at Kobe for being a cheater and people are POed at the woman for being a total slut. Somehow, I think if these people were "blue collar" no one would really care one way or the other...

micki76
08-18-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
I have to wonder why a woman goes to a man's hotel room??? To play Monopoly?? I agree the adultery is wrong....but that is not what he is on trial for....

ITA. Why else would you go to a star athlete’s hotel room. I wouldn't go to any man's hotel room thinking that anything other than sex was going to happen. Duh.

One of my friends used to argue that women should be allowed to wear anything they want without fear of being raped. Well, yes in a perfect world we should be able to dress as we wish without fear, but IMO if you're baring your rear & chest in public, you're asking for it in the sense that some sicko's going to get mad or turned on by that, and the chances of being raped/attacked increase. It's the same way with going to a man's hotel room. Yes it should be safe, but if you use the noggin God gave you, you should know that anything could happen. Why place yourself in that position by your attire or actions?

Did he rape her? I'll never know, only those two actually know. If she said no, then of course he should have stopped. But there's always the chance that it was consensual. I'm just glad I'm not required to try to decipher all the evidence and try to do right by both parties. :eek:

guster girl
08-18-2004, 08:39 PM
I don't really follow the news and I follow things like this even less frequently. But, I will say that I think wearing revealing or sexy clothing to a club is far less "suggestive" than going into a man's hotel room. Just my opinion that they're not even the same thing.

KYS
08-18-2004, 09:50 PM
sirrahbed,

I agree with you.
I watched on the news 2 days ago, that
for the first time since 1974 stats came in
and show an all time low of rapes being
reported in Colorado. This case is having an impact
on rape victims whether he is guilty or not, because
of how this case has and is being handled.


__________________

leslie
08-18-2004, 10:14 PM
I can't read this whole thread! But I read a lot.
I believe the allegedly raped woman is old enough to know that when you go to a man's room alone, anything can happen- and that just by going to the room, that is saying "I am open to anything" Which may be a sad statement on our society but if your gonna be stupid....( how many women here would go to a married man's room and not know it meant sex?)
I just think we have taught our girls to be smart by now. You go to a hotel room with a man, Hello- it means sex. Now, if she was surprised by it and said no, then that of course is wrong for him to push himself on her.
She does seem savvy enough though to know how to call a man's intentions..
He may have raped her- we'll never know- since I didn't read the whole thread- did she go to the hospital and have a rape kit done on her?

Edwina's Secretary
08-18-2004, 11:09 PM
KYS...that is my concern. I worked in a resort when I was younger (and more naive!) than this woman. I knew you did not EVER go to a guest's room unless it was a blood relative. She had already met him.

I am worried that, due to the high level of attention this case has recieved, and the...to many...dubious nature of the claim...that rape victims will be afraid to come forward or will be disbelieved.

I am worried this case will, in fact, set BACK the cause of rape victims.

leslie
08-18-2004, 11:42 PM
I still believe she was raped (fyi) and I agree with you! Women need to take responsibility for themselves and save themselves!

micki76
08-19-2004, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by sirrahbed
We do NOT know if the girl was raped but the fact that she may have been immoral should not matter. The fact is that Kobe Bryant IS married. The accuser SHOULD have been able to tell him NO and expect him to stop whatever it was he was doing.

Just want to say that I completely understand with what you're saying about the rape shield.

But first you say that her being immoral should not matter, then in the same breathe you state that Kobe IS married. If her immoral past has no bearing on anything, then neither does his immorality, IMO.

You can’t disregard her past and not his. Being married doesn’t even enter into the issue of whether he raped her or not for me. Neither does her past.

Her going to his hotel room says more about her intentions than anything in her past ever could. JMO

And yes, IF she said no, he should have stopped. ITA.

Logan
08-19-2004, 10:25 AM
This whole thing is so screwed up. I want to believe in his innocence after all that we have learned about this particular "victim", but like you, Debbie, I don't want to see this hurt other rape victims. It will be good when it is over. Her filing the civil suit to get money sort of sealed my opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion.

micki76
08-19-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by sirrahbed
The HUGE difference here is that SHE is the victim and HE is the accused on trial. Rape is a crime. So, his morality IS significant while hers as a victim should be irrelevant. She is not on trial here.

Again - I am not arguing her innocence - I am arguing the fact that the rape shield is in place to keep a VICTIM from being treated as equal to the criminal - exactly what is happening in the Kobe Bryant trial. The arguments you are making above are supporting the very problem I am arguing. The victim must not be treated to the same standards as the accused.

But it's not been proven that he even IS a criminal. He's only been accused. Innocent until proven guilty.

The accused have rights also, as they should until their guilt is proven. That's a great right we all have in this country.

Like I said before, I'm very glad that I don't have the responsibility of deciding who's being truthful in this case. What a huge weight to carry. :(

heinz57_79
08-19-2004, 01:31 PM
I just now caught this thread and thought i'd toss in my 2 cents...

This country has a habit of making heros of those who should be seriously reprimanded. I've heard all sorts of stuff Re. Kobe, and so many people are saying, "BUt he loves his fiance so much! He proposed and everything!" Yeah, he did, but only AFTER he was accused of sexual assault and she found out he was cheating. If you look at her face at the press conferences, she looks as if she knows he's guilty but wants her 15 minutes of fame too.

If he is aquitted, they everyone will be saying, "He was targeted because of his fame," "He rose above the accusations," blah blah blah. Not one word will be said about his infideleties, or his immoral behaviour. ANd if i may say so, his gf/fiance/wife/whatever is an idiot for staying with him, thinking it will never happen again.

To make my point about heros... We have turned Magic Johnson into an HIV/AIDS advocate. Why? Yes, the disease is terrible, but what is rarely spoken of is HOW is contracted it. Cheating on his wife with NUMEROUS women. He should not rise to hero status just because of his disease, instead why not use him as an example??? What kind of message does this send to the youth? President Clinton was shown to be above the law. ANyone else would hvae been in trouble for purgery. What happened to him? Not a whole heck of a lot. It was kind of glossed over.

All these men cheated on their wives and got what they deserved.... or did they?

dukedogsmom
08-19-2004, 03:43 PM
heinz57_79, you took the words right out of my mouth. I couldn't have said it better. I would have no desire to be with him and don't understand why women would? Just because he's famous? Sorry, that's not near good enough for me.

leslie
08-19-2004, 08:31 PM
the term hero- I haven't looked it up but I thought heros were people who did something courageous; like jump in a river to save a drowning victim, go into a burning house to save a child or pet, go overseas to take gunshots for our country, etc. Why are star athletes considered akin to "heros"? They didn't do anything to earn this status. Or was he "rescuing" the desk clerk from her monotonous (sp?) job by giving her hotel variety? (kidding and sarcastic- sorry!) Just thinking about the word and that he shouldn't be referred to as a hero- but then I am not a sports fan- maybe to sports fans he is a hero?

guster girl
08-20-2004, 11:46 AM
I don't know, I haven't noticed anyone calling athletes heroes per se. role models, yes, which, oftentimes, is just as undeserving a title. Some of them do deserve it. A lot of them still really are good people. A lot of them aren't. I hung out with a lot of pro athletes for a season here in Dallas, and, none of them were faithful. but, I honestly believe the women they marry know that, and, I also think that a lot of them do the same thing. But, from the girls I met, here they are with a hot guy that's going to hook them up financially for life. They're going to pop out a couple of kids and literally be set. It's not morally right, but, I have to think a lot of the infidelities aren't so secret. It almost seems just like an unspoken understanding. I could be wrong, I'm just going on what I saw. I never knowingly dated or went out with any of the married athletes, but, I know a lot of my friends did. And, the only one I did go out with, I asked him if he had a girlfried or wife, and, he lied about it. And, I didn't follow his team, so I didn't know he was married. Found out later on TV, though. ha ha, oh, well, I didn't do anything regretful anyway. ;) Just dinner and a movie. But, yeah, anyway, I think Kobe's girl stayed with him because she weighed her options. I wouldn't stay with him, but, then, I wouldn't hook up with a guy just to get a purple diamond either. I just think she's completely aware and is probably alright with it. (I don't even begin to speculate on whether or not he raped that girl, I'll never know for sure and it's just a headache I don't need trying to figure out someone else's life) So, yeah, this post is just about his fiancee.

RICHARD
09-01-2004, 05:01 PM
PROSECUTORS HAVE JUST DROPPED THE CHARGES AGAINST KOBE BRYANT...

sirrahbed
09-01-2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
PROSECUTORS HAVE JUST DROPPED THE CHARGES AGAINST KOBE BRYANT...

Yes, I just heard this also - but it isn't really what it sounds like. The charges were "dismissed without prejudice" and this is very unusual. Essentially it means the charges are dropped but can be brought up again at any time - sort of like putting them on hold. When charges are dropped in a case, it is almost always "with prejudice" meaning dismissed, dropped, over and done with, period...not to be filed or brought up again.

I would love to know what led up to this decision by the prosecution:rolleyes: I doubt that they are giving up - I suspect they are just putting things off for a better time. Maybe the accuser is running scared at the moment?

Logan
09-01-2004, 07:56 PM
Seems to be some conflicting information out there. See the attached article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5861379/?GT1=5100

sirrahbed
09-01-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Logan
Seems to be some conflicting information out there. See the attached article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5861379/?GT1=5100
Yes, this is also what I am now hearing. I did think dismissing without prejudice was odd, in fact I have never heard of it happening!:rolleyes: I heard this on both NBC and Fox. Now Fox is saying it is unclear. Who knows?? Thank you for the article, Logan.

My Peanuts
09-02-2004, 05:00 PM
Being a Chicago Bulls fan all my life, I have a little animosity towards the Lakers and I still think he's innocent. (yes I know basketball has nothing to do with this) What won me over was that the woman had slept with someone after she slept with Kobe. If I was raped, I would be so freaked out and wouldn't want to have sex for a long time. It seems like someone talked her into calling it rape after the fact. Then again, I haven't been following this all to closely. Just my opinion :)

Catsnclay
09-02-2004, 06:45 PM
[i]I would love to know what led up to this decision by the prosecution:rolleyes: I doubt that they are giving up - I suspect they are just putting things off for a better time. Maybe the accuser is running scared at the moment? [/B]

Try M-O-N-E-Y.

As for running scared, wouldn't you be? They "mistakenly" leaked her name to the press, then they "mistakenly" released her medical records to the press, not once but TWICE. They already put her through a trial.........via the press.


As much of a basketball junkie that I am, it really makes me mad when they pamper these over-paid, whiny mulit-millionaires. :mad:

guster girl
09-02-2004, 06:47 PM
I know someone who went through a rape, and, she reported him, and, he was charged with it. But, she actually had sex with a guy she'd known for awhile as soon as she could. I think it's definitely different with every person. She said it made her feel safe to be in the arms of someone that wasn't forcing her. I don't know, though, it's not even something I've tried to figure out. I think he's an a**hole just for cheating on his wife. I know that a lot of the pro athletes do, and, a lot of the women are ok with it, but, it's not something I'll ever agree with. I'm not saying he's not a great basketball player and that I don't enjoy watching him on the court, because I keep the two completely separate. I just think his character off the court is questionable.

sirrahbed
09-02-2004, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Catsnclay


As for running scared, wouldn't you be?

Absolutely! My heart is with this victim. I agree she has already been tried. I HATE that the rape shield has been misused - this puts rape victims back decades. I do not know if she is inocent or not, but I still feel for her.

I also do not think it is unusual for her to run to the safety of another man, a safe and loving man, after a rape. As for not reporting right away - well, most are NEVER reported at all! Any victim advocate can tell you this is a realistic response. I have been a victim of sexual abuse myself and the things I did initially were NOT very logical but they were things I did to feel back in control. I also work as an advocate for clergy sexual abuse victims. These victims generally do one of two things: they become celebate or promiscuous. The married victims sometimes seek out frantic sex from their husbands while unable to feel anything but numbness. One third commit suicide. It is very hard to understand the psychology of a victim unless you have been there. I also understand that this young woman was troubled to start with. My heart aches for her.

It also makes me sick to see folks pamper these over-paid, whiny mulit-millionaires. I hope she survives her civil suit. A civil suit is HELL. I have been there too and cannot fathom how anyone would ever consider them frivolous or worth ANY amount of money.