Results of the Animal Behaviorist

[clara4457]

Whew - it was pretty intense but I got a great deal out of it. She spent over 2 hours observing and asking questions about both dogs. Basically she said that Penny Lane is absolutely trying to dominate the household. She is very fixated on me and wants to control everything Leo is doing, especially where I am concerned.

She also has very strong herding instincts and strongly suspects that Penny Lane has ACD in her mix. (Actually her exact words were "I guarantee you that she has ACD in her with her herding and her sensitivity") She says that Penny Lane needs a job.

All this time when I thought her licking Leo's muzzle was a submissive behavior - it is actually a dominant behavior, she would lick him a few times and then wrap her mouth around his muzzle. In other words, she would lick him to set him up and then demonstrate her dominance. :eek:

I am supposed to get a typewritten behavior modification list but basically she has recommended the following:

1. Leo and Penny should only be in the yard together for 5 or 10 minutes a day and only under my complete control, otherwise I should let them out seperately.

2. I should get a Dog Appeasing Pheramone cartridge for the room that Penny spends most of her time in.

3. They need a 10 minute quiet time in their crates on a daily basis with goodie filled kongs. All the toys need to go away and only come out when I give permission and only with my supervision.

4. Each dog should get quality time with me with physical contact outside of each others view. Otherwise physical contact should be kept at a mimimum. (That is going to be the hardest :( )

5. Penny need PROZAC :eek: Not long term, but for a couple of months.

6. Any sign of aggression on Penny's part and it is an immediate time out in her crate.

7. Leo should continue his playdates with other dogs so he has the social interaction with other dogs that do not try to control him.

It seems I have quite a challenge on my hands - but it is a doable situation. I just have to take total control at all times. She was actually pretty impressed that Leo has been as tolerant as he has. She did say that Leo always tries to remove himself when she gets snippy and go about his business, but she just absolutely feels the need to control him.

That's about the long and short of it - I am off to Petsmart to pick up the DAP.

[lovemyshiba]

Wow!!
Sounds like she really took care of everything.
I am so happy to hear that the situation is do able. In my case, the "minimum physical contact" would be tough, but I love the dogs, and would be willing to do whatever it took--just as you are.
I really really hope everything works out (I'm sure that it will).

I have to commend you on your dedication to the dogs--so many people may have just thought it was too tough of a situation (no one on PT, I'm sure;) )

Thanks for the update Clara, I was waiting to read it, and I'm happy it's good news.

[clara4457]

lovemyshiba - Thank you - I cannot tell you how much it means to me to know I have your thoughts and prayers - especially since you have "been there done that" :eek:

[KYS]

I found the Animal Behaviorists
info. very interesting. I hope everything
works out for you. Now you will need to
give us updates on how it works out.

[clara4457]

Originally posted by KYS
I found the Animal Behaviorists
info. very interesting. I hope everything
works out for you. Now you will need to
give us updates on how it works out.

I absolutely will - I also found it very interesting. I am just sorry it had do develop in my household! :eek:

[Tonya]

Wow! What a good mommy! That is wonderful that you took that extra step! If you don't mind me asking, is the behavioralist expensive?

Prozac for doggies. I can't help but laugh.

[ChrisH]

Wow, looks like a lot of work ahead! Even so, it must be a big relief to have a plan and direction. And, like lovemyshiba, I must commend you on your dedication to your furkids, it is wonderful.

Sending prayers and positive thoughts that all will work out well.

Chris

[anna_66]

I agree, it sounds like alot of work (expecially on the keeping the physical contact to a minimum), but I'm glad your willing to do it!

I have faith that this will all work out. Good Luck (but I'm sure you don't need that;) )

[clara4457]

Originally posted by Tonya
Wow! What a good mommy! That is wonderful that you took that extra step! If you don't mind me asking, is the behavioralist expensive?

Prozac for doggies. I can't help but laugh.

I thought the price was very reasonable - $75 for the home visit and if we need any followup visits - they would be $45. I can also e-mail her at any time if I have questions or concerns. Of course tack on the price of the items I have to buy (the DAP, Prozac, etc) and it goes up. I feel it was the best money I ever spent.

It is still a great deal cheaper than vet bills if they get into another fight ;)

[Sevens]

I am so glad that you went to this behaviorist and that you've been given the instructions that will help you in the long run with your two wonderful pups.

Unfortunately, that sounds like exactly what Bailey is doing to James, the dog we are deciding whether or not to keep. That thing you described about the muzzle licking and biting thing, that's exactly what she is doing to him. I mean, he seems to be putting up with it ok, but she can be a bit much. He snaps back at her, but we haven't had any fights yet.

Hmmm...well, I am gonna show my husband your post. I think it's only fair that we factor this issue into our decision. Again, thank you, you have been such a great source of information to me through all of this.

Good luck with your pups! :)

[Cincy'sMom]

Sounds like you got some good advice, and while it may not make your life easy, it shows real dedication to your dogs that you are willing to make the adjustments that they may both live happy lives with you.

Paws and Fingers croassed that it will all work out!

[wolfsoul]

How is Penny doing? Are her and Leo okay with eachother now? :)

[clara4457]

Thanks for asking - we are having a difficult time of it.

We are not doing real well right now. Penny and Leo have gotten into 3 additional fights since the last one. Fortunately no blood was spilled and I was able to control them pretty quickly. Right now they are completely separated by baby gates. I only let them together when I can be totally focused on what they are doing. This time the fights were over the cat. Penny wants to chase the cat and Leo (who is buddies with the cat) doesn't like that.

Penny Lane is on Prozac - she has been on it a little over a week, so it hasn't really taken effect yet (takes about 4 weeks to affect behavior).

The problem is that I travel some with my job and everytime I come home we seem to be starting over again. Even after 2 1/2 months she still shakes most of the time. My sister is off for the summer working on her dissertation, so I am going to start leaving Penny Lane with her when I travel so she can continue to work with her.

I am seriously thinking about rehoming her. It breaks my heart, but if I could find a perfect home for her (one with no other pets and someone who is home most of the time - a senior maybe) I would probably do it. I am just not sure if I am doing the right thing by her. Needless to say, I have been in tears over this for the last week or so. I just want to do what is best for them both.
:(

[anna_66]

So sorry to hear that things aren't going so great. I do wish you luck, but if you think rehomin her is in her best interest, I'd do it.

[lovemyshiba]

Oh Clara I'm so sorry to read this.

I know how hard you are working, and how much this must be breaking your heart.

We know you are doing everything you can for Penny, and if rehoming her is your best option, that may just be what is needed to be done.

{{{hugs}}}

[clara4457]

Thank you so much for the support. I honestly have not decided what would be best right now. There are good days and bad days. This morning Penny Lane and Leo played very nice in the back yard, but later in the afternoon she growled at Leo when he was walking too close to me. :o

I just got back from taking her to my sister's house because I have to leave first thing in the morning for Milwaukee and I won't get back until Wednesday night.

I think I at least owe it to her to see if the Prozac helps. The vet said that we wouldn't see any affects until about 4 weeks, so we are kind of watching and waiting until then.

Like I said - rehoming her may be the best solution for both dogs, but it has to be the perfect home before I consider letting her go. At least I know that here she is loved and safe.

Again - thanks for the support. It means a great deal to me. :)

[lizbud]

clara4457,

I'm sorry that you still are having the ups & downs with Penny
Lane & Leo. But, I am very glad that you've decided to wait out
the time to see if the Prozac works for her & with her behavior.
It's very lucky that you have a Sister to help out by keeping Penny
while you are away. A lot of small steps can lead to some big
gains in the long run.:) I wish you every success. A least you can
be certain in you're own mind that you've done everything you
can for Penny Lane. {{{HUGS}}}

[Orlando Bloom's Gal]

Clara,

You can try putting them both on "happy pills". My friend had put her Staffie on them, and she wasn't aggressive as long as the pills took effect on her. I'm not sure if Prozac is also called "happy pills". But, it's worth a shot. Works on my dogs.