Penny Lane and Leo had a huge fight!!!

[clara4457]

I have no idea what set them off, but Penny Lane and Leo had a big fight! :eek: I had a heck of a time getting them apart. Penny had hold of Leo by the scruff of the neck and my reaction was to try to pry them apart, so of course I got bit as well. I finally got them apart and had Penny in my arms when Leo went for her leg!! She has some pretty severe puncture wounds on her one paw.:( :(

I took her to the emergency vet - they said that it wasn't as severe as it looked, but she would need a couple of stitches in one spot. They also said to put Neosporin on it and put a bandage on it and take her to my regular vet tomorrow.

I am just so upset - this is not like Leo at all, he is the most mellow dog in the world. Penny can be a little feisty and snippy at times, but Leo usually just goes the other way. They seem to be okay right now - but it worries me. Am I going to have to keep them separated? I am hoping this is a one time incident - because if it is not - I may have to rehome her with someone who doesn't have another dog, which would break my heart. OMG - I am still shaking and tearing up just thinking about it. :(

[Orlando Bloom's Gal]

A friend of mine had two Staffordshire Bull Terriers that she had to keep separated all the time. They got into fights, twice! One time, going over to her place, Staffie bitch had a large gash on the back of her neck from where the male bit her. The nale had no wounds at all. The bitch has hormonal problems too, and can be snappy with other dogs. She almost attacked one of my other friend's Staffies at a show just before my sis was taking the dog in for Juniors.

[captain]

Captain attacked Ruby once - she was getting on his nerves I guess. He is also such a mellow boy .....

Never happened again ......... and she had a cut on her nose ......

Fingers crossed that it was a once of ....

[anna_66]

I'm so sorry to hear about their fight, but glad to hear that Penny wasn't hurt as bad as you thought.
I do hope this was a one time incident.
Hope your bite wasn't too bad.

{{{Hugs}}} for you, Penny & Leo

[aly]

Maybe you can just seperate them while you're not home for a little while. Then when you feel comfortable, you can start leaving them together even while you're not home again.

[Cheshirekatt]

I've had a fight bewteen two of mine. It was over a new toy and really it was my fault.

I tethered them in the room within sight but not able to touch each other for a couple of days. I supervise them with new toys and food, but they're ok now.

Just supervise them for a while!

:D

[lovemyshiba]

Kito and Abbey had a few small scuffles when they first started living together--Kito took a small teeny tiny piece of her ear off, and Abbey retaliated by giving him a nice puncture in the shoulder.
A few months ago, they had the worst fight ever. It was entirely my fault though---they were fighting over a big ham bone--I shouldn't have given it to them. This resulted in 10 stitches for Abbey, and a $300 vet bill for me.
After that, I kept them separated for a while when I wasn't home, it just makes me feel better.

I hope everything is ok, they probably just had a disagreement of some sort--I would just watch them for a while, and I'm sure they will be back to normal soon.

[Tonya]

I've had a few dogs in my lifetime and I've had that happen. I know it is heartbreaking! I remember being so afraid that my dogs wouldn't be friends. My dogs always fought once or twice when they were first living together. Once they established who's boss they got along fine. Hopefully that is the case for yours. Now, hopefully, one will let the other eat first, have first dibs on the bones and toys, etc... So there will be no reason to fight. I would remain guarded for a while though. Always be sure to give them an equal share of bones/toys/food and give it to them seperatly.

[clara4457]

Well Penny Lane is back from the vets (another $200 :eek: ) - most of her wounds were puncture wounds and are being treated as open sores. She had one on her foot that required two stitches. I am trying to keep her very quite and I am watching them very closely, but she is growling whenever Leo even comes near her. :( Is this normal after a squirmish like this?

I am just so upset, I don't know what to do. This is the first time I have ever had to deal with having dogs that don't get along. They can't live the rest of their lives being separated - it would make my life miserable and not be fair to them. I am going to keep Penny Lane on the back porch while I am at work, like I did when she was having bladder control problems. I have been in tears all day thinking I might have to rehome her. :(

[captain]

I think it is normal for Penny Lane to growl at Leo for now ...... I mean, she has stitches, and visited the VET :eek: ..... which she will see as being Leo's fault ....

Keep them seperated for awhile, like everyone seems to suggest, and then see ...

Fingers crossed

[KYS]

aly:Maybe you can just seperate them while you're not home for a little while. Then when you feel comfortable, you can start leaving them together even while you're not home again. >>>>

This is what I did too.

Approx. 2.5 years ago, Sheba thought she
was still alpha.
Not to get into the whole story, but Rocky came
into the bedroom for pets from me, and Sheba
got possessive. (jelousey)
It happened so fast, I am not even sure what happen.
Luckly, I was right next to them before
a full fight could pursue, and their were no injuries
after I pried Rocky's jaws off Sheba's neck.

What I did:
I gave Rocky a 10 minute time out in his crate,
Than made them both lay down accross the room
from each other.
Sheba would not look at Rocky in the eyes or go near him.
Rocky kept staring down Sheba.


I had to leave for work, so Sheba stayed in the house
and Rocky outside.
When I got home, Sheba still would not go near Rocky or
look him in the eyes. Rocky already got over it.

For about 4 months I separated them while I
was not home. At home I kept them under
supervision. Well, they have not had a fight since,
(a couple of close call over a bone or toy)
but I have not had to separate them.

(after it happened I also was upset and devastated, thinking I would have to keep them separated for the rest of their
lives.) But as you see, I didn't. :)

Dogs have good memories, but hopefully separting them
while you are not around to watch them, will do the trick and
when you are home they can be together.
Keep us udated.

[lizbud]

Clara4457,

Please don't give up yet. KYS has given some good personal
advise on this. Keep them separated for awhile & let things die
down between them. I understand this thing is a very frightning
to witness, but dogs don't think like we do, they could get over
this incident & go on to be ,if not friends, at least able to get
along peacefully together. I found a link to one article on this
subject & it seems to make sense to me;

http://www.metrokc.gov/lars/animal/Educate/cassidy/dog/dog25.htm

This might sound wierd, but maybe you could say that Penny
is finally feeling confident enought to challenge Leo for Alpha
status. I wish you the very best on this & please let us all know
how things are going.

[Orlando Bloom's Gal]

I agree with lizbud. I've had dogs to that. I had a Staffie(14 inch male) try to pick a fight with a GSD bitch(standard 23 inch female) who was sitting with her pups. Well, guess who won. Lol. The mother GSD of course. The Staffie got what he deserved:p for trying to pick a fight with a mother dog. Also, my Beagles will try to scuffle with the Staffords, GSDs and particularilly like t opick on the Chihuahuas becasue they are the smallest. I've had Chihuahuas try to pick fights with the Staffies, Beagles and GSDs. They aren't very smart little dogs. Lol. I have some male and females of each breed that have to be kept appart all the time other wise fights break out. But, my little mix, Kiki, is definately alpha male, and alpha dog of the house. None of the other dogs, even the ones bigger than him, dare not pick a fight with him. Once, my big 27 inch male GSD attempted to challenge Kiki(who is only 12 inches), came away with his tail between is legs. Kiki showed him who was boss. Lol. I wouldn't worry about having to rehome her. You might have to keep them separated for a while. After, have you take one dog, and your husband(if you have one) or a friend take the other. Keep them on leashes(muzzles might be good too). Slowly, introduce them again. It's worked for me. I do this whenever my dogs scuffle. Give it a try and let me know if it works:) Good luck:D

[lizbud]

Orlando Bloom's Gal,

Wow, it sounds like you have a lot of dogs. How many dogs
do you have now? Are they all yours, or are you dog sitting?

[Orlando Bloom's Gal]

Well, that comes from many years of owning/handling/breeding dogs. My parents were breders, so I've grown up with dogs all my life. So, I'm used to these things happening sooner or later. I have over 30 dogs right now(since I have four diggerent breeds). But, clara4457, give what I suggested a try adn let me know if it works. :) Hope it works for you.

[tikeyas_mom]

dont worrie about your dogs, it isnt as bad as it looks , penny probably stepped out of line with leo and he got mad. Then she fought back, it is whatr dogs do, Tikeya and Oscar get into small fights . but it isnt seriouse. Dogs will do this sometimes, it is part of figuring out who is The alfa dog in the house. it is NORMAL!!!!

[clara4457]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I am currently keeping them separated while I am gone and keeping a close eye on them otherwise. The problem is that Penny Lane also suffers from separation anxiety and goes a little nuts when she is left by herself - she was fine when she and Leo were left together. Things seem to have settled down a bit, but I am still a little nervous when they get too close to each other which I am sure I am telegraphing to them :( It is definately fear aggression with Penny Lane - she growls and shakes at the same time. I just got a little freaked (okay a lot freaked:o ) when Leo turned so vicious on her. Leo has never acted that way before. I am going to enroll her in obedience classes and keep working with her socialization. Wish me luck!!!

[clara4457]

Well I posted on the Great Pets board and got a response from Sarah Wilson. (I had no idea she posted personally! That was very cool) She has recommended we consult an animal behaviorist. Since this is a holiday weekend, I am going get some recommendations from my vet, trainer, SPCA on Monday. I want to make sure I am using a reputable one.

I think I may have contributed to the situation by not establishing the pack hierarchy like I should have. I think I let Penny Lane get away with alpha behavior because of her medical problems. Isn't it amazing that as much as we love our dogs, we unknowingly don't always do what is best for them. :o

Right now they are both "grounded" having to work for everything! No pets, food, attention, etc. unless they are doing a required behavior. If Penny Lane is the least bit snippy, she is immediately put into a down - stay.

Needless to say - I am commited to doing everything I can to make this work! Wish me luck.

[anna_66]

GOOD LUCK!!!

[micki76]

Good Luck and don't worry, most of us have been there! You'll all make it through and come out just fine. :)

[lizbud]

Originally posted by clara4457

I think I may have contributed to the situation by not establishing the pack hierarchy like I should have. I think I let Penny Lane get away with alpha behavior because of her medical problems. Isn't it amazing that as much as we love our dogs, we unknowingly don't always do what is best for them. :o



Very well done clara4457. That was very wise of you to seek
out expert advice to help indentify the problems & get guidence
on how to go about correcting them.That's a BIG step forward.
It really shows your deep commitment & love for Leo & Penny
Lane. I do wish you the very best of luck & think you have all
the right instincts to make this work out well. :)

[clara4457]

I made an appointment for an behaviorist/trainer to come to my house next Wednesday. I thought it was pretty reasonable - $75 for a 2 hour in home visit. She is going to observe the two dogs together and suggest a behavior modification program. I have a feeling the behavior modification is more for me than the pups! :D

We haven't had any incidents since the last one, but I keep pretty firm control over both pups now.

Anyway - I'll let you know how it goes.

[lovemyshiba]

I believe you are doing the absolute best thing for all 3 of you, and I commend you for doing so. It's not always easy, and it may get frustrating, but I know how much you love your dogs, and I know you will be able to make it work.
I will be anxiously waiting to hear what the behaviorist had to say--maybe we could get some pictures to tide us over??;)