PDA

View Full Version : This Is The Attitude I Face......



Cheshirekatt
06-21-2003, 05:00 PM
everyday when I walk my dogs. People like this really, really scare me. What about cigarette smoke? Second hand smoke alone kills 50,000 people a year.

It's time to put an end to the carnage of pit bulls

By Matt Rosenberg
Special to The Times




America can count on two things this summer: Western forest fires and gruesome carnage by pit bulls. The latter is already well under way in Washington, and across the U.S.

Yet, experts aplenty criticize breed-specific regulations. They urge more public education. Unfortunately, though, too many thuggish or careless pit bull owners aren't interested in learning responsibility.

And as it happens, pit bulls stand alone among dogs as killers. A study in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association shows that over 20 years, pit bulls lead in human dog-bite-related fatalities for which breed was reported. They're followed at some distance by Rottweilers, then German Shepherds and Huskies.

According to the Centers for Disease Control, pit bulls are also among the breeds that bite most often. About 800,000 of the estimated 4.7 million annual U.S. dog bites require medical treatment. Insurance claims total $1 billion a year.

Definitions of pit bulls include American Pit Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers and mixes including those breeds. Pit bulls have historically been fighters. Many are still bred for violence. Thus, local laws may ban them or require they be caged, or muzzled and restrained ? sometimes even micro-chipped and heavily insured.

In other words, they're ticking time bombs, as Western Washington has been recently reminded. In three West Seattle incidents this spring, pit bulls attacked dogs (one died, another was severely injured) and a man, Joseph Muñoz. He suffered three broken ribs, a punctured lung, broken back and multiple scars. Muñoz says, "These dangerous dogs need to be taken off the streets of Seattle."

In March, a pit bull mauled a 3-year-old boy to death in Lakewood, Pierce County. In April, two pit bulls attacked a Renton police dog pursuing a suspect, then were shot by police.

Nationwide reports this spring further highlight the pit bull menace. Here's a very partial sampling.

? In Cortlandt, N.Y., a seated 75-year-old woman visiting a friend's home bled to death after the friend's pit bull suddenly attacked her face.

? A roommate's pit bull attacked a Huntington, W. Va., man, breaking hand bones and nearly severing his pinky.

? A 52-year-old electric meter reader lost an ear and part of her scalp to a pit bull in Brevard County, Fla.

? Pit bulls attacked a 64-year-old Augusta, Maine, man outside his apartment. He got 14 stitches for wounds on an arm and wrist.

? In suburban Salt Lake City, a 3-year-old girl in a park had her face torn apart by a pit bill.

? In the Bronx, another badly ripped up a 10-year-old boy's leg.

"Certain breeds represent a very significantly increased risk of death or injury," a Nationwide Mutual Insurance spokesman told the Chicago Tribune. The company won't cover households with pit bulls, Rottweilers and four other breeds. Other industry officials agree breed is increasingly a major factor.

Governments are wary, too. Pit Bull Rescue Central reports Denmark, Norway, Holland and Romania ban pit bulls, likewise at least 55 U.S. jurisdictions. These include Denver; Miami-Dade County; Prince George's County, Md.; and Puerto Rico. Some bans also include Rottweilers.

The Spokane City Council recently banned non-service animals from large downtown events. Police told the Spokesman-Review they're especially concerned about breeds including pit bulls and Rottweilers. A captain notes, "Our fear is one of these dogs is going to take a child's face off... "

Last week, the Seattle City Council added animals that severely injure another to its definition of dangerous critters, subject to micro-chipping, banishment or humane disposal. Also new is a civil citation of "potentially dangerous" animals for minor bites and various aggressive behaviors.

It's an improvement, but a pit bull ban is required here. True, complications can arise about what is and isn't a pit bull, and a ban isn't always easy to enforce. However, this only underscores the need for clear definitions and procedures, and prioritization of funding. We need safety, not excuses.

So-civil Seattle already bans sidewalk-sitting and public urination; and will continue through this summer exterminating geese, because their abundant fecal matter causes "swimmer's itch" and may pose disease risks. That's all well and good. But neither the homeless nor pooping waterfowl chew up dogs, able-bodied adults or children, with "jaws of death."

People now deter attacking pit bulls with their own weapons, like baseball bats, recently near Vancouver, Clark County, and Santa Fe, N.M.; and a handgun, in Columbus, Ohio.

Something is fundamentally askew when clandestine, organized pit bull fights are sprouting nationwide; when so many pit bulls are abandoned; and when others regularly run free, or bust loose and attack.

You might own a docile, loving pit bull. Others may responsibly harbor a perfectly legal Bushmaster XM15-A3 assault rifle. Neither should be allowed.



Matt Rosenberg is a Seattle writer and regular contributor to The Times' editorial pages. E-mail him at oudist@nwlink.com

GoldenRetrLuver
06-21-2003, 05:26 PM
*sighs* I really feel bad for people who judge dogs on there bad reputation..when they dont know them. They judge the whole entire breed for a handful of dogs. I have found pit bulls to be very affectionate dogs. There probaly the most affectionate dog on my list. They think banning the breed will stop pit bulls from being bad dogs? NOT IN MY OPINION. Its never the dog thats bad, its always the stupid owners and breeders, that make them that way. If we had more responsible people in the world, I think they would think twice before calling pits a "horrible breed":( :mad: Ok, ill stop.:p

Cheshirekatt
06-21-2003, 05:39 PM
Yes, it's just another example of propaganda silliness. I feel really sorry for people who believe everything they read or see on tv. :(

RICHARD
06-21-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Cheshirekatt
Yes, it's just another example of propaganda silliness. I feel really sorry for people who believe everything they read or see on tv. :(


you mean the flintstones are fake???

most of the blame lies with the owners...

we had some jerky kids that lived around the corner teach a pit to lunge at everything that moved...it go so bad they fenced the dog OUT of their yard......it was too much to handle....
forget the dogs, euthanize the owners..

Cheshirekatt
06-21-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
you mean the flintstones are fake???

most of the blame lies with the owners...

we had some jerky kids that lived around the corner teach a pit to lunge at everything that moved...it go so bad they fenced the dog OUT of their yard......it was too much to handle....
forget the dogs, euthanize the owners..

OMG!! I'm watching the Flintstones RIGHT NOW!!

Euthanize the owners? Sounds good to me.

I've been lunged at my many a dog.....not one of them has been a pitty. Well, I take that back....

I've been lunged at, knocked down and licked all over! lol

jackiesdaisy1935
06-21-2003, 07:09 PM
I have always loved all dogs, however no matter how nice a pit bull is I would never trust one and would not go near one. I also agree that the owners are responsible for what happens with their pit bulls and the law should be very strict in making owners take out insurance and they should go to obedience school although I don't know if that would help.

My reasoning: Our two Schnauzers were attacked in our own patio by a pitbull who lived next door. We had put up a six foot fence all the way down to the street to protect our dogs, however this pitbull broke his chain, then broke through our fence to get to them. We happen to be at the grocery store. When we came home we found our male lying on the bottom step of our patio barely alive, he had punctured lungs and bites. Our little female was in the dog house with her shoulder ripped wide open and bleeding profusely. the pitbull's chain got caught on a fence or he would have finished them off. That was a year ago and I still have nightmares about finding them like that.
We rushed them to the emergency vet hospital, they were there over a week and I'm happy to say they are doing wonderful today, after Daisy had surgery on her shoulder and Perry's lungs and bites got better. Our Vet bills were way over 3,000, who paid for them? Not the people who had the Pitbull, they were renting as section 8s and the owner of the house paid. The owners of the pitbull were summoned to court, did they show up? No, there is a arrest warrent for them.
We went through a very long period of rehabilition with them, carrying them in and out etc. etc. The people next door had three pitbulls, now they are down to one and our dogs are prisoners in their own yard, we cannot let them outside without one of us with them.
The same week this happened another elderly woman was sitting on the porch in our city with her dog and another pitbull attacked her dog and luckily a passerby saved it.
Do I like Pitbulls? I realize all dogs are different, however I would never trust one and don't expect to ever be near one if I can help it.
Jackie, Perry and Miss Daisy

Cheshirekatt
06-21-2003, 07:24 PM
Wow, that's too bad that happened to you. I'm glad your dogs are ok. That's what's important in the end.

I have to admit that being lumped in with people living in section 8 housing is a little weird.

I live in a nice house, put up a 6 foot fence, train my dogs extensively and only ever have them out on leashes. They're licensed and vaccinated and micro-chipped.

It's unfortunate that pittys are attractive to the wrong element of society. I believe this the what causes many of the problems.

I've been bitten by several dogs and had a lab attack one of my dogs. I understand dog behavior enough to realise this is just how some dogs are. I don't hate labs now and would never try to segregate myself from them.

IMHO any dog that attacks a person unprovoked should be considered a dangerous dog and appropriate measures should be taken.

Again, I'm glad your dogs are ok.

:)

RICHARD
06-21-2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
Not the people who had the Pitbull, they were renting as section 8s and the owner of the house paid.


Section 8's are the people who live in places that are subsidised by the government...


since they do not have the financial incentive to keep their place and the neighborhood in a liveable condition they come in and destroy and terrorize the neighborhood.

THEY ARE NOT ALL LIKE THAT. but you will get the
pieces of trash who keep those poor animals and TEACH THEM to attack, for their own entertainment.....the poor animals are usually kept, as jackie alluded to, on chains and they are never walked or housed or cared for in a responsible manner. so when the dogs get loose there is all hell to pay...

most of the times the dogs are treated as 'throwaways' the dog become too vicious to keep and the owners either turn them loose or pound them

Jackie, i'm sorry that you had to find you babies in that condition....


again, forget the dogs, euthanize the IRRESPONSIBLE owners....

Kfamr
06-21-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
I have always loved all dogs, however no matter how nice a pit bull is I would never trust one and would not go near one.

So you'd never trust Simba or go near him????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PLEASE answer my PM and/or e-mail about FTLOD.








As for the subject, i find how people feel about Pit Bulls racism... Breedism.

I like quoting Richard.... so.... Like he says "forget the dogs, euthanize the IRRESPONSIBLE owners...."

jackiesdaisy1935
06-21-2003, 09:08 PM
Richard you are quite right, I talked to the people when they moved in and asked them about the dogs and they said oh they are friendly, they just don't like other dogs and women, that is when we decided to build the 6 ft. fence, we had a four foot chain link fence.
They had the three pitbulls chained with a stake in the ground, water buckets spilled over, no cover from the sun, etc. etc. the pitbull was so strong he pulled the stake out and I guess kept hitting the fence until he broke a hole big enough to jump through.
After the incident they gave one pitbull to the guys father, the one who attacked to a friend and kept one. However in their behalf I will say they keep this one in the house 24/7, not very good for the dog as the only time he gets to go out is to do his
duty. I feel sorry for the dog.
My Daisy was in her doghouse and I had to run by the pitbull to get to her, luckily he was caught on his chain, I got Daisy out and she was in such pain while I was carrying her, she bit me numerous times.
I'm so thankful both dogs survived and are well today, they are our whole life, since our kids are grown, they give us a reason to get up in the morning and the last thing we hug at night.

If people like that can't afford to pay for their rent, how can they afford three pitbulls? They also have two small children. I truly feel sorry for the pitbulls, they are not at fault, those people are, for not treating them humanely, what else can one expect from people like that?
Jackie

Cheshirekatt
06-21-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935

If people like that can't afford to pay for their rent, how can they afford three pitbulls? They also have two small children. I truly feel sorry for the pitbulls, they are not at fault, those people are, for not treating them humanely, what else can one expect from people like that?
Jackie


This is a very good point. I wish people who couldn't afford to keep pets properly wouldn't have them.

Not to mention the poor kids......

Again, I'm really glad that your babies are ok.

jackiesdaisy1935
06-21-2003, 09:20 PM
KayAnn, if you want to know the truth, I would have to meet him and see how it all went, I'm sure you can understand my feelings in this. I think you would have had to been there, I know how much you love Simba and I don't blame you but understand we love Perry and Daisy so very much too. I don't blame all pitbulls
I'm just very wary of them, as he was trying to get to me when I was getting Daisy out of her doghouse.
As far as FTLODs, if you read the description we only allow members who are over 18 as there is some material not suitable for young people and the Ass't Manager was just doing her job. I'm sorry.
Jackie

primabella
06-21-2003, 09:27 PM
What a terrible experience :eek: I am so glad your dogs are okay. Not to take this too literally, but I can see why you tend to distance yourself from the breed.

I have never met a pitbull but in the past after hearing everything on the news, even though I was usually on the dogs side, I used to be afraid of ever meeting one. Also in school, we had this one week in French class where we read stories and discussed dogs and one of the stories was about the pitbull and how they "have it in their breed and history that they are like this and a reason they are usually the ones who 'attack' is because they have locking jaws" so I sort of believed that. PT has helped me a lot because now I know it's bad owners, and that locking jaws are a myth...I hate the way they blow things out of porportion and how I believed them. My sister once said how pitbulls are so violent and I gave her such a lecture :rolleyes: lol I think I convinced her to think differently about them.

Cheshirekatt - How many pitties do you have? I only know of one, Wilma. (lol Flinstones again ;))

Cheshirekatt
06-21-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by primabella
Cheshirekatt - How many pitties do you have? I only know of one, Wilma. (lol Flinstones again ;))

Wilma is the only 'full' pit I have. Joxer is pitty/boxer and Buford isn't pitty at all. :)

It's funny, but the only non-pitty I own is the one that I trust the least around other dogs. :) But for some reason people seem to think all brindle dogs are pitty so I get that misconception a lot.

Kfamr
06-21-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
KayAnn, if you want to know the truth, I would have to meet him and see how it all went, I'm sure you can understand my feelings in this. I think you would have had to been there, I know how much you love Simba and I don't blame you but understand we love Perry and Daisy so very much too. I don't blame all pitbulls
I'm just very wary of them, as he was trying to get to me when I was getting Daisy out of her doghouse.
As far as FTLODs, if you read the description we only allow members who are over 18 as there is some material not suitable for young people and the Ass't Manager was just doing her job. I'm sorry.
Jackie

I understand.


If it was really "For the love of dogs" and since i've been there since it has started i don't see any reason why i was banned or kids my age shouldn't be allowed.

jackiesdaisy1935
06-21-2003, 10:30 PM
KayAnn, I'm really sorry, but the rules have been put in to protect young people under 18, although we know young people love their dogs as much as any older person, as I said there are some types of material that are not suitable for young people some of the times, and it's not like PetTalk, where everything is suitable for any age. I understand what you are talking about, but the msn groups are quite open and we felt it would protect people like you. There are times when we have had to ban people because of posts not being suitable even for adults. I hope you understand.
Jackie

iceyshiver21
06-21-2003, 11:26 PM
To me each dog is his own. Someone says so and so has a pitbull and Im just like "Huh? your point?" unless the owner clearly has bad ownership with any dog in the past. I've never met a full pitty or even half. But I have met alot of other bad name breeds and am a proud owner of a wonderful Rotty. People look at her and give me some pretty interesting looks, but they mostly turn to smiles when they see how wonderful Dutchess is with my little two year old sister Carlee. I mean a 2 year old with a rotty really gives some people some thinkin to do.

Kfamr
06-21-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
KayAnn, I'm really sorry, but the rules have been put in to protect young people under 18, although we know young people love their dogs as much as any older person, as I said there are some types of material that are not suitable for young people some of the times, and it's not like PetTalk, where everything is suitable for any age. I understand what you are talking about, but the msn groups are quite open and we felt it would protect people like you. There are times when we have had to ban people because of posts not being suitable even for adults. I hope you understand.
Jackie


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

aly
06-23-2003, 12:43 AM
Katt and Kay -

There's a pit at my work who I want to take home SO BAD! Someone must've done a home cropping job on his ears because they look so bad :( He was locked in a crate for 3 days with no food and water before he was saved and brought to my shelter by a coworker. He's the biggest MUSHBALL! He puts his head in my arms and just goes to sleep. Awww. I just wanted to show you guys his pic:

http://www.austinspca.com/images/adopt/pets/dogs/HSOA011014A.jpg

Cheshirekatt
06-23-2003, 12:48 AM
Aly,
Ooooooh! He's adorable! I love his freckles. :D

mugsy
06-23-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by RICHARD
forget the dogs, euthanize the IRRESPONSIBLE owners....

My sentiments exactly!

Kfamr
06-23-2003, 12:04 PM
Awww Aly!! He looks soooo sweet! I wanna hug his big blocky head and kiss all the little spots on his nose!!

jackiesdaisy1935
06-23-2003, 09:35 PM
Another example of irresponsible pet ownership, but the little girl is not here to complain. This is in the Los Angeles area.
Jackie

Neighbors say pit bull was known to be violent




Dog killed 2-year-old girl playing in yard
ASSOCIATED PRESS

June 23, 2003

LAKE ELSINORE – The pit bull that killed a 2-year-old girl at the home of her baby sitters had attacked other children in the neighborhood, residents said.

"That dog bit one of my nephews three weeks ago," said Salvador Mojica, 45, Saturday. She said the wound was not serious.

"We talked to them and they told us just to throw rocks at the dog if he came near again," Mojica said. "My brother asked me to see if the dog had rabies shots, and they said yes. That's why I didn't make a complaint."

Summer Clugston and her 1-year-old brother were left Friday at the home of a couple in the unincorporated Good Hope area while their parents worked. Summer was playing in the front yard when the dog attacked, Riverside County sheriff's Deputy Dennis Gutierrez said. She died a short time later at a nearby hospital.

The identity of the couple and Summer's parents were not immediately released.

Mojica said she called Animal Control three times last year about loose dogs in the neighborhood, but no one responded.

Riverside County Animal Control officials could not be reached for comment and did not return a telephone message.

Yami Chavez, 35, who lives across the road from the home where the attack happened, said she often had to chase dogs off her property, including the pit bull involved in the fatal mauling.

The dog that attacked Summer was destroyed after the attack, officials said Friday.

Officials are investigating the incident. No charges have been filed.

iceyshiver21
06-23-2003, 09:44 PM
Sad...But hey lets make it worse by throwing rocks at it and just make it meaner!! Where the heck where its owners? Was it stray? Wow...the world sucks.

Cheshirekatt
06-23-2003, 09:53 PM
I'm not sure you could call this an example of "irresponsible ownership". It really sounds like these were stray/nuisance dogs. Although I couldn't really tell from the article. Perhaps the irresponsibility is in dumping the dogs.

And it also sounds like the animal control office dropped the ball. I do know the lab that mauled my dog was a stray that was running with a pack of other stray dogs. This seems to encourage aggressive behavior.

The poor little girl......

I wonder if she was being supervised while she was in the yard? Did anyone report the bite the other little boy had gotten earlier? Maybe if someone had this little girl would still be with us.

Cheshirekatt
06-23-2003, 10:07 PM
I think it's only fair that we put something positive in this thread, also. These very pit bulls helped search ground zero after 9-11. I know I'd be glad to see their furry faces if I was lost or trapped some where. :) Even she faces the hysteria and misconceptions.......



Alameda County Woman Trains Pit Bulls for Search and Rescue--Worth the TROUBLE
Jon Mays




People have thrown rocks and yelled at her. They?ve even tried to poison her dogs. She even ended up renting a small trailer on a Castro Valley ranch without heat or running water because she couldn?t find another place that would allow pit bulls.




And despite the trouble, Kristine Crawford will load her pit bull search-and-rescue dogs into her 4X4 truck at any hour, no matter how far away, to help find a missing person. Crawford owns three pit bulls. One is trained in specialized search-and-rescue techniques such as cadaver and area search and the other two are finishing up their training in area as well as trailing a specific scent. They are also trained to navigate boulders, rugged and steep terrain in the forest and rubble in the city, Crawford said.



Crawford is a member of the California Search and Rescue Dog Association, a volunteer group of SAR Dog handlers who are on call to help find missing persons anywhere in the state. She is also an Operations Lieutenant for the Alameda County Sheriff Search and Rescue Unit.



Last month, Crawford was called to Pacifica, here in San Mateo County, to help find a missing 85-year-old man with Alzheimer?s disease. At 2 a.m., Crawford and her teammates had been searching for an hour when another dog team found the man 600 feet down a ravine entangled in some brush. Crawford assisted with the extrication of the man because he would not have survived the night as it was very cold out.



However, the negative stigma attached to pit bulls causes Crawford to have her share of unpleasant moments as well. Once, Crawford was helping a search-and-rescue effort in the Sierra Nevadas when, after driving several hours to get there a sheriff?s deputy pulled a gun on Dakota, her primary search-and-rescue dog. ?He said, ?That?s a vicious dog. You need to put him back in the truck.? Then a deputy from another county who had worked with me told him to holster his weapon and thank his lucky stars we were here to help because Dakota is one damn good search dog,? she said.



In fact, Crawford said the typical characteristics of a pit bull make them great search-and-rescue dogs. Pit bulls are courageous, intelligent, agile, social and extremely focused. ?Whatever they do, they do to the best of their ability,? she said.



Scott Delucchi, spokesperson for the Peninsula Humane Society, said pit bulls are definitely a working dog and they can also be aggressive with other dogs. However, he said with the increased media attention, there?s a misconception that dog bites are on the rise.



Delucchi also said much of pit bulls? reputation depends on their owners. ?Different types of people want to have pit bulls,? Delucchi said. ?Sometimes they have a macho mentality and they want to have an aggressive dog,?



Crawford, a 40-year-old woman who moved to the Bay Area from Minnesota 10 years ago, may be tough, but she?s anything but macho. Crawford wants to have pit bulls because they help her save lives.



Crawford has been training pit bulls professionally for sixteen years, and pit bull SAR dogs for 6 years, ever since she saved Cheyenne from being euthanized. Crawford adopted Cheyenne because she was going to be euthanized, not because of her behaviour or temperment, but simply because of the type of breed she was. Crawford was battling a severe illness at the time and Cheyenne, now 6 years old, was instrumental in Crawford's recovery.



Crawford adopted now 5-year-old Dakota when she was 6 weeks old and was rescued from a dog-fighting ring. Since then, Dakota has become the star of her crew. Her third dog is Tahoe, a 14-month-old who is the youngest dog in the group.



Even though the dogs usually sport their ?search dog? vests in public, Crawford said people have gotten so angry at her for having the breed that while walking her dogs (on leash, of course) they have thrown rocks at her and screamed that she is a disgrace to society for owning that breed. Once, she discovered that someone had sprinkled rat poison in her car after placing a nasty note about pit bulls on her car. Another time, she was training with Dakota on a golf course that was closed when a trespassing golfer hit the dog over the head with a golf club. ?He said, ?All I saw was a pit bull coming at me,? ? she said. She was even wearing her big bright orange search dog vest.



Crawford is committed to breaking the stigma attached to the breed and often brings all three dogs to schools, hospitals and nursing homes. "The visits to schools are extremely important, Crawford said, because with our Safety Around Dogs program we are teaching children how to behave around dogs and what to do in the event of an attack." Most importantly, she said children should not run because that may provoke the predatory instinct. If attacked, Crawford said it?s critical to remain still and cover the neck and head.



Crawford said it's hard but rewarding when visiting nursing homes. There are some that go days and sometimes weeks without visitors. To the lonely, Crawford said, her dogs make a difference despite the breed's bad reputation.



?They may not say a word, but you see their eyes light up and a hint of a smile, and you know you've made a difference,? she said.



©2000 Berkeley Daily Planet/San Mateo Daily Journal



_

aly
06-23-2003, 10:19 PM
I saw that story about the most recent Pit attack in the news. Supposedly there were several children playing outside and they all went in except the little girl. It was then that the dog got her. A neighbor said there are several dogs who just roam around there, and the Pit was one of them.

I'm pretty sick of hearing these Pit stories. What makes me even sicker is the stupid people they interview who say Pits are evil, etc etc.

Thanks for the positive Pit stories that are WAY too often ignored, Kat :)

Cheshirekatt
06-23-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by aly

Thanks for the positive Pit stories that are WAY too often ignored, Kat :)

It's unfortunate, but the postive stories don't sell papers..........

Cheshirekatt
06-23-2003, 11:00 PM
I thought this was a very well written article. I hope owners of certain breeds aren't offended by anything said in the article. I believe the author was just using them as examples.....

Dog Bite Statistics: Bad Logic




By Katharine Dokken



The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and many local jurisdictions issue yearly dog bite statistics that affect pet owners everywhere in ways they seldom think of until its too late. What are some of those effects? How about sudden cancellation of your home owner?s insurance policy or denial of a new one, or an outright ban on the ownership of your dog? If you own your own home and one day your city decides to ban ownership of your dog, what do you do?



Dog breeds the CDC considers the highest risk? Pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, Huskies, Alaskan Malamutes, Doberman pinschers, Chow Chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. But are these the breeds that actually are the highest risk? And "Huskies" is a class of dogs, not a breed. What kind of "Huskies" are they even talking about? The generic term of Husky refers to Siberian Huskies, Alaskan Malamutes, Samoyeds, and other Northern type breeds which may or may not even be purebred. Are they talking about Siberian Huskies? If so, then why don't they specify that?



Many homeowners insurance companies and local law enforcement jurisdictions use these statistics to decide what dog breeds they will discriminate against or out right ban. While statistics on dog bites are nice, they actually tell us almost nothing about the issue, and are the basis of many pieces of flawed dog ownership restrictions or outright banning legislation.



In the first place, the dog breed identifications in the reports are dubious at best. Entire categories of bites are frequently not included in the statistics, such as the so-called provoked bites, which may or may not be such. In addition many dog bites are never reported, especially if they do not require medical treatment.



To use statistics alone in determining who an insurance company will sell to and who they won?t ignores the basic issues of personal responsibility and just how many of those so-called statistical bites were caused by the human involved and not the dog, besides being downright racist. If insurance companies refused to provide homeowners insurance to all black people there would be a national outcry. Yet many companies today refuse to sell insurance to someone who owns a dog, regardless of the dog?s history and temperament.



Many jurisdictions force the dog bite reporter to list the dog by breed, but many of these dogs are not purebreds. They are mixed breeds, frequently of unknown parentage. Some jurisdictions will accept a listing of mixed breed but many will not. Is the dog that just bit someone a multiple-breed-Chow mix? Guess what, it will probably be listed as a Chow Chow bite. Own a Hound/Bull dog mix? Chances are good it will be listed as a Pit Bull. A mixed breed dog is just that.



For the average person, they can accurately identify less than 30 dog breeds on sight, let alone in a stressful and intense situation like a dog bite. The bite will get reported as whatever breed the people involved think it most closely resembles. Even law enforcement officers, animal shelter workers, and some veterinarians cannot accurately identify many breeds. I can remember just a few months ago taking one of my dogs into the regular vet clinic we always go to. We saw one of the veterinarians on staff that we hadn't seen before. He made the comment that he hadn't realized that my dog breed was as big as it is because he had never seen one in person before. He had only seen pictures in books, yet the breed of dog I own is fairly common in both my area and nationally, and the dog in question was actually very small for the breed.



For the average person anything with prick ears and blue eyes automatically becomes a "husky," yet many breeds can have blue eyes, and many more have prick ears. Any smooth coated brown dog, medium sized, and muscular becomes a "pit bull" yet upon examination many have been found to be purebred Boxers. Any tall dog becomes a Great Dane, fuzzy or hairy and it?s a Chow Chow. If it?s black and tan and heavy it?s a Rottweiler, etc. See the problem with this? The average person cannot tell the difference between an Alaskan Malamute, a Siberian Husky, and an Akita.



Fatal attacks since 1975 have been attributed to over 30 different dog breeds yet all the media can talk about are Pit bulls, Rottweilers, Dobermans, or Akitas. Size alone is not an accurate indicator of which dogs are capable of killing and which dogs are not. In October of 2000, a baby was killed by a four pound family Pomeranian dog in California. In February of 2002, a Jack Russell Terrier mauled a 6 week old baby in Tennessee.



For an entire category of bites, there is no reporting at all. This is for so called provoked bites. Bites that occur at veterinarian offices, dog groomers, and boarding kennels in many counties are automatically declared to be provoked bites. Those that know dog bite statistics from the inside out are those that work with animals for a living. I recently polled a number of animal shelter workers and this is what they said about dog bites. Most of the bites have been by small unfriendly Terrier type dogs and Cocker Spaniels. Occasionally they have seen a larger dog on a bite case but the vast majority of the bites were from small to medium sized dogs.



The dog groomers I spoke to said most of the bites they see are from Schnauzers, Cocker Spaniels, Westies, Scotties, and Dachshunds.



Next I polled a number of veterinarians. One veterinarian said to me, "Give me a so-called vicious Pit Bull over a Cocker Spaniel, Dachshund, or even a Lab any day!! These are the breeds I have the most problem with." Another vet concurred saying that in years of working at a veterinarian clinic she never once encountered a single vicious Pit bull yet had problems all the time with Cocker Spaniels and Yorkshire Terriers.



Speaking of provoking, an entire category of bites that are reported and shouldn?t be are the truly provoked bites. The bites in which the person involved was clearly at fault and not the dog. The bites that occurred for instance when the person who was bitten was somewhere they should not have been in the first place. For example, recently in Maryland a 13-year-old boy was bitten after he was caught leaning over the fence into a person?s yard, teasing the Pit bull contained there. Prior to the bite incident, this boy was warned 3 times to leave the dog alone. The dog owner was having so many problems with people teasing and provoking her dogs that she contacted Animal Control for assistance. Under advisement from the authorities, she ringed her backyard fence with evenly spaced ?Beware of Dog? and ?No Trespassing? signs. Yet these signs and 3 verbal warnings from an adult witness were still not enough to keep this boy out of the dog owner?s yard. The dog owner has now lost her dog to the authorities and another bite statistic has been entered. Yet, was it this dog?s fault? No! This dog, Pit bull or otherwise, was simply defending itself and its territory from an intruder.



Just days later an Akita bit a 16 year old girl in the face in Rhode Island and again, the dog was confined in its owners backyard and the teenager was trespassing on private property. These stories are not even anomalies, but frequent occurrences. In this day and age of zero personal responsibility, the dog owner is now always deemed to be at fault regardless of the circumstances.



Hand in hand with this is the general failure of parents today to teach their children even the most basic rules of canine safety and good manners. Parents encourage their children to approach and touch strange dogs without a single thought of the consequences, or even bothering to ask permission of the dog owner involved. They allow children to put their hands through fences to grab at animals contained inside. This is the epitome of irresponsibility. Fences are there for a reason and that reason is to keep people, animals or things, in; and others out. No animal should have to put up with strangers of any size, grabbing, groping, pulling their tails and ears, and hitting or poking them, yet this goes on and people expect that the animal will be some sort of saint in fur in return. This is a completely unrealistic viewpoint. A parent would be outraged and probably screaming for the police if a stranger approached and started groping their child, yet they think nothing of doing the same thing to a strange animal.



To go by statistics alone assumes that the majority of dog bites are reported and that the majority of breeds identified are correct. As a long time dog fancier, I have a serious problem with either assumption. Too bad many insurance companies are now refusing to provide home owners insurance to owners of certain breeds and many communities are banning ownership of dogs, based on statistics that are dubious at best.



Katharine Dokken

captain
06-23-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Cheshirekatt
It's unfortunate, but the postive stories don't sell papers..........

.... and that is the saddest part! :(

tikeyas_mom
06-23-2003, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by primabella
What a terrible experience :eek: I am so glad your dogs are okay. Not to take this too literally, but I can see why you tend to distance yourself from the breed.


I have never been bitten by a pit bull or a rotty. BUT I have been bitten by a Sheltie *next door naibors dog Dixy*!! :eek: .. I have also been bitten by a dalmation *Friends dog Pongo*, a lasa apso *my aunts dog Tikah*, a lab*rescuing Oscar from its jaws *, a dachund * my god mothers dog named Otis*, a siberian husky*my old dog Moka*, a dobermin pincher* forget his name but he was my friends old dog.*, a malamute*my old dog Tikah*, A germin Shephard* friends dog Lucky, she was in a fight with Tikeya and I was trying to split it up*.

I have never in my whole life been bitten by a Pit bull or a rotty or any bully breed, I have a friend with a mastif and he just slobbers everyone to death, I also have another friend who has 2 rotties, they are so hyper lol. I have a guy friend that has a pure bred english bull dog, I love his teeth lol, he is so nice and loves other dogs to. I have a friend named Deen with one sharpei *sp?* and another sharpei cross with mastiff.

. It just goes to show that you cannot judge a book by its cover. !! ;).

Even have I said that I have been bitten by all the above breeds of dogs. I still would never give up the oprotunity to hug one and pet one lol. That probably why I got bit so many times. lol I dont get to know the dog befor I rush up and love it. lol

tikeyas_mom
06-23-2003, 11:39 PM
you remind me of my dad. He also rather not be aroud pits and rotties, mastifs, dobermins, sharpeis, bull dogs, or bull terriers. It is sad really.

He was also attcked, but by our old dog, he was a dobermin trained to kill. He was trained to protect me and my mom from stolkers. My dad was scared of him from the begining, and one day *my moms stalker* kept phoning and threatening, my dad rushed in and scared the dobermin so it lunged, not seriously ingering him, of course. but still it has scared him for life. Now I am intent on getting a breed he is affraid of when I move out, just to prove him wroge about all the myths.

I hope one day you can get to know a pitbull. It would be a good experience for you.

Animal Miracles with Alan Thicke:


DIXIE AND THE SNAKE

When the deadly water moccasin snake struck out at nine-year-old Frank and seven-year-old twins Katie and Codie, their Pitt Bull Terrier Dixie didn't hesitate. The usually gentle dog lunged at the snake, biting down hard on its slippery body, violently shaking it to death. But before it died, the snake landed two venomous bites on the loyal dog's face. Valerie Humphries, the children's mother and Dixie's owner, rushed the stricken dog to the vet clinic. After several days of intense care, Dixie came around and today she continues to care for her young charges, watching carefully for all signs of danger. In 2000, the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame recognized Dixie for her act of bravery.


Something you didnt hear: The husband, owner of Dixie, brang her home from a shelter 5 years earlier. Valerie, wife, didnt want the dog BECAUSE she was a pitt bull Terrier. The husband of Valerie begged and pleaded intull she gave in. AND if she had fallen to the discrimination that she was thinking, her child, Frank, would not be alive today.



Now thats a good story. I think every pit has this potential.

Kfamr
06-23-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Cheshirekatt
It's unfortunate, but the postive stories don't sell papers..........

I'd much rather read a happy story than one of a pit bull being judged for what it was trained to do but the moron owner.

micki76
06-24-2003, 12:23 AM
I can certainly understand jackiesdaisy1935's feelings. I totally trust Bruce with myself, my husband and I would trust him with children. But I'm not ready to my little, tiny babies with him. They are far to willing to attack him, and if anything happened to them it would be their fault, not his. But, they will not be allowed out with him. They will continue to be seperated. This is not Bruce's fault or even because of his breed. This is the terrier's fault, because they lunge and attack and if he did defend himself, they could be hurt badly, quickly.

wolfsoul
06-24-2003, 01:29 AM
I love pitties. One time I stcuk my hand in the car with one in it lol :rolleyes: I'm a ditz. I have to admit though, that since my neighbors pit bull has repeatedly attacked Timber, they do intimidate me. It's the same with alot of breeds that I find attack my dogs alot though, and/or try to attack me.

jackiesdaisy1935
06-24-2003, 10:13 AM
Well I can see most of the people on here either have Pitbulls or love them. I guess if you came home and saw another dog in your yard and your Male Schnauzer, barely breathing, blood everywhere, bites all over him, his neck swelled up and his eyes rolling in his head, laying down ready to die. Your little female after getting her shoulder completely ripped open, blood everywhere, the muscles and tendons ripped up, because of Perry fighting off that Pitbull she got to escape to her dog house., and you were in that position you might feel the way I do.

We had five Pitbulls within close proximity. Let's see next door they chained three of them, the one down the street has been having dog fights, the one across the street goes crazy when someone walks by. We cannot walk our dogs because of this, we cannot put our dogs on our own patio without being there, because of this, even if we take them down to the bottom yard, we have to be with them. We are prisoners and our dogs are because of these Pitbulls.

Are the people who own them at fault? Of course they are, but does this make the Pitbull more lovable, or less likely to attack,
should we say, oh the people are at fault, lets go give the Pitbull a pat on the head?

Pitbulls are a dime a dozen here, why? Because they are bred indiscriminately in the backyards, many are taught to fight,
many use them to protect their drugs, many young men teach them to attack because it makes them feel macho. Look in our shelters and every other dog in there is a Pitbull.

Yes Terriers are noisy little dogs, but they were in their own backyard, they didn't break out, the Pitbull broke in, we have had Schnauzers for over 18 years and although now because of them being attacked we have to closely monitor them, they do not like other dogs, I blame that on the Pitbull, it was not like that before they were attacked.

I'm sure I'm not going to convince you how I feel about Pitbulls, however you will never convince me how sweet and lovable they are. I saw what they can do with my own eyes and we spent a very long time nursing our dogs back to health and we are still prisoners in our own home.
Jackie

Kfamr
06-24-2003, 10:20 AM
I feel deeply sorry for what happened to Perry and Daisy, you know I do Jackie. What if that was another schnauzer that did that? Would you feel the same with them? Would you despise the breed such as you do Pit Bulls?

If I had saw what you've seen done to your babies, of course i'd be sad and angry with the dog, but NOT with the breed. One animal isn't going to change my entire outlook on the whole breed. That's just like hating all dogs because one attacked me. Or hating a race of humans, just because one did something to me. It's total racism, or breedism towards dogs.


What if there was a dog who was a mix of every single breed there is [ which probably isn't possible, but still] Which breed would you blame then?

micki76
06-24-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
Yes Terriers are noisy little dogs, but they were in their own backyard, they didn't break out, the Pitbull broke in, we have had Schnauzers for over 18 years and although now because of them being attacked we have to closely monitor them, they do not like other dogs, I blame that on the Pitbull, it was not like that before they were attacked.

Jackie-
I certainly hope you don't think I was accusing your dogs of causing this to happen. I was talking about my own terriers and how they react to our pitbull rescue.
I'm not trying to convince you that pittys are the best dogs in the world, or right for you. Just please don't close your mind off because of this horrible, awful experience.

Many statistics, whether correct or not, indicate that the majority of crimes in this country are committed by black males. If you were kidnapped, tortured and beaten by a black man would you hate all black people? To me what you're saying about this breed is very similar and equally frightening to me.

I groomed dogs for years, and the dogs that nipped, bit and endangered me the most were cockers( #1 for me personally- 4 bites) , poodles and about any terrier(my favorite dogs-I own 2) that you can name. While I understand that this is not as dangerous obviously as a large dog like a pit, this has still been my experience. And yes, we did bathe and clip toenails on several pittys on a regular basis since were the only shop in the area that would.

Cheshirekatt
06-24-2003, 11:36 AM
Obviously we'll have to agree to disagree.

There are several breeds of dogs I don't care for (for various reasons), but that's information I prefer to keep to myself.

iceyshiver21
06-24-2003, 11:55 AM
Throught out my life I have met alot of the dog on the list up there....The first and only dogs I ever got chase by was a set of rottys, little did I know you cant out run a dog on a bike, but thats the best part, because I realized that he wasnt chasing to bite me...he was chasing to chase, such as a dog would chase cars. I later found out that The pair was named Bishop and Dutchess. Bishop later was stole and Dutchess I'm proud to say I have owned for 7 years.
I've never met a pitbull, im sad to say. So rotty, Akita and alaskain breed storys are the only I can tell.
I've steped into alot of dog fights trying to save my babies. Dumb I know....I get grounded for a month everytime...but I have insurance and a good doctor and some much more can be done for me, than my poor pup. If at the time of the fight Im near a hose or bucket, I usally think to grave that instead, even once a broom saved my dogs life.
Here's one thing I dont get...I've been around dogs all my life...I've never got bite hard enough to draw blood by a large dog...Notice how most the large dog breeds get the "look" or foul langage....never the little ones...I've been bite by SO MANY little dogs that its not even funny, I have scares on my hands from little dog fights.
I realize alot of people own little dogs but most little dog tend to pefer one or two people and some love the world its all how they got brought up. same with Large dogs but why then are large dogs so discriminated?

jackiesdaisy1935
06-24-2003, 01:50 PM
KayAnn, I don't dispise any dog, I consider myself a dog lover, I have had all kinds, Boxer, Bassett, Doxies, and a Rottweiler and three Schnauzers.
I guess you all would have to go through what we did to understand how we feel. Our dogs are like our babies, they are our children in old age. We do not live in a nice quiet 50s neighborhood, we live where the PitBulls take the place of guns at times. There has been many Pitbull attacks in our city against other dogs, children, old women etc. etc.
My belief is years and years ago the Pitbull was born and trained to fight, today that is still in them. Sometimes it never comes out, and other times it does come out and there is nothing one can do., but hope for the best.
I care for all dogs, always have, but I do not want to come in contact with a Pitbull, I see what they are capable of.
Jackie
KayAnn you can be as sympathetic as you want, but you picture Simba laying there, barely able to breathe, both lungs collapsed, blood all around him, his eyes rolling back in his head, and you are so sure he is dying and suffering and you tell me you could forgive and forget. If you can you are a Saint.

iceyshiver21
06-24-2003, 02:04 PM
Jackie-I dont mean to but in but...what you said to kay ann in your last paragraph..My dog Lady was killed when I was very young the neighbors dog killed her...that dog was Dutchess. Lady was a pom and a snippy one at that...I know she would have took on dutch anyday. She didnt care that she was smaller than the rotty. The owners tried to hide it from us for years. I SEARCHED FOR YEARS, hoping that one day I would find that she had found a new home somethin....she was my life. Im crying again now and its been 8 Years. I miss that little dog...but I have found another to fill the whole in my heart, well six and one of them is Dutchess, she chased me when she was two, killed my dog, but yet...I love her....

Kfamr
06-24-2003, 02:08 PM
First off, I DO NOT want to picture my dog like that. I do not have to go through what you have to understand. The Pit Bull was NOT born to fight, but yes, morons have trained them to. There IS something one can do, and that is to train them properly. Any dog is capable of attacking, even Perry and Daisy. But, since you have not trained them to do so, they won't.
You obviously don't care for all dogs if you're not willing to meet one who was trained properly.
Again, I do not want to picture my dog like that but, if it did happen, I probably would not forgive that certain dog. But, NEVER be so ignorant enough to dislike the whole breed.

Here, Meet Buddy. A full blood American Pit Bull Terrier.
Here he is playing with Nala, a dog who at the time was not even half as large as him.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p9180875b8f800756341cddf507485ffc/fc25d30f.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/pf94754ad23792ecde9f460887b88a300/fc25cecf.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/pdd285f4e7cdc9a3cda7d7c78ebebf025/fc25ce73.jpg

The only thing he would ever be capable of is drowning you in slobber from all of his kisses.

micki76
06-24-2003, 03:34 PM
Jees!! If Nala did this to me, I would've bit her!! :D
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/pf94754ad23792ecde9f460887b88a300/fc25cecf.jpg

GoldenRetrLuver
06-24-2003, 03:55 PM
Pitbulls just have a really bad rep....*sighs* I know how you feel jackiesdaisy1935. Im a little nervous whenever I see a person walking a chow, or a chow at the dog park, a while ago a chow attacked and killed my cat when i was 7 years old--i saw it. (thats why my cats are strictly indoors) But, you must remember, bad owners make bad dogs.

Kfamr
06-24-2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by micki76
Jees!! If Nala did this to me, I would've bit her!! :D
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/pf94754ad23792ecde9f460887b88a300/fc25cecf.jpg

LOL! Me too!! Just goes to show, Pits can be even more gentle than little pups!:)

aly
06-24-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935

I'm sure I'm not going to convince you how I feel about Pitbulls, however you will never convince me how sweet and lovable they are. I saw what they can do with my own eyes and we spent a very long time nursing our dogs back to health and we are still prisoners in our own home.
Jackie

Jackie -

I really really really understand how you must feel after your dogs were attacked in their own yard. I can't even imagine the horror. I just feel utterly sick when I hear you describe it. I can feel your pain through your words and my heart breaks for you. I am so glad that they both had some guardian angels hard at work that day.. not to mention a great mommy and daddy.

But I just don't understand how you can still say that they can't be sweet dogs. It sounds like there's a lot of fighting rings in your area, therefore probably a lot of nasty people ruining these great dogs. With those statistics, I would expect you to be weary of the ones in your area before you know them. But it sounds like you wouldn't even want to get to know a nice one? If a Chinese man mugged you, would you never want to befriend another Chinese man again?

***edit: Opps, I didn't finish the posts before I replied. I see others have made the same analogy already. Ignore me.

captain
06-25-2003, 01:42 AM
Oh CheshireKatt ....... {{{{tears}}}}.:(

No doubt about it, APBT will always have a special place in your heart ......... as in mine.
I did not go through anything like you did ........ but they are truly amazing, and misunderstood, animals.

Cheshirekatt
06-25-2003, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by captain
No doubt about it, APBT will always have a special place in your heart .........

You got that right. :)

iceyshiver21
06-25-2003, 02:51 AM
Cheshirekatt- omg...now that is love. In its purest form. The love a dog can provide its master, without asking anything in return. The love a dog can provde when raised right and loved and...I cant stop crying..

jackiesdaisy- You have a complete opisite experiance...a horrible one that no owner should have to go through...no one. I can understand how you would feel the way you do.

Now we have seen both sides to the same breed of dog. This can be with any breed. Theres one thing no breed can aviod, and thats bad owners...but I never hear of a pom killing a baby...why? Mostly because it is alittle hard for a little dog to kill anything bigger than itself...this is way most breeds dont have a bad rep. Now what do Labs and Retrivers have that Bad rep. breeds dont? Thats I cant ansure. But I think it may have to do with the fact that since Pit Bulls have the bodies and attributes to fight...not because its in thier nature....because some idiot found out that if you tease and torment it, it will make a good fighting dog. This is where they get there horrible rep. Which makes it even harder for the good owners to socialize. But we have to change that...its not in there blood to fight...but it is what people expect from them...its what they wait for, the dog to make on little slip up one little bite...that bite in which every dog is in titled too...Im sorry you had to see the darker side Jackiesdaisy...

Cheshirekatt
06-25-2003, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by iceyshiver21
.but I never hear of a pom killing a baby...why?

Actually a couple of years ago in CA there was a case of a pom mauling and killing a 4 month old baby! :(

Although it's not typical, it's a good reminder that all dogs have teeth........

iceyshiver21
06-25-2003, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by Cheshirekatt
Actually a couple of years ago in CA there was a case of a pom mauling and killing a 4 month old baby! :(

Although it's not typical, it's a good reminder that all dogs have teeth........

Really?!?!?! well..well..learn somthing knew everyday. And I very much agree with your bottom statment.

Kfamr
06-25-2003, 04:41 AM
Omg, Katt. I'm crying right now. You've made me love Pit Bulls even more. What a wonderful story to show how great these dogs can really be.

aly
06-25-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Kfamr
Omg, Katt. I'm crying right now. You've made me love Pit Bulls even more. What a wonderful story to show how great these dogs can really be.

DITTO!!!!!!!!!

micki76
06-25-2003, 10:24 AM
Oh, Katt! What a wonderful girl you had! Your story made me cry, too. I understand your intense love for dogs and pitbulls even better now. I have no doubt that Patches saved your life. :D

primabella
06-25-2003, 10:58 AM
CheshireKatt - Your going to make me cry. What a touching story. :(:(:(

Cheshirekatt
06-25-2003, 08:18 PM
I'm just thankful this incident didn't happen in today's anti-pit bull atmosphere.

Likely my dog would have been shot by police upon their arrival......

CathyBogart
06-26-2003, 03:10 AM
My most cherished memory of any pit is my old boss' dog. He has a father/daughter paid, Bolo and Diamond. He used to bring Diamond in to work, and sometimes he would bring her downstairs and she'd socialize with any customer who wanted to see her. One evening I was packing up to leave when he brought Diamond downstairs. As I was walking towards the door I saw an odd sight....Diamond's head was in a stroller, and the tiny baby in the stroller had ahold of her whiskers and appeared to be trying to pull them out! Diamond just kept licking, it was a really comical sight! ^_^

I've been bitten by a german shepherd (a friend's dog was loose in my neighborhood, and I had one of my rabbits out....prey drive, not his fault), a golden retriever (poorly bred, poorly owned), a lab mix, a bassett hound, and FIVE dalmatians.

Well, actually four. The fifth viciously attacked the CHOW CHOW mix I was with. Boo (the chow mix) could be same-sex dog aggressive, so I always walked her on a leash. Some idiot had her nasty dal off leash, and I didn't even see it until it was on top of Boo!! That poor dog. I'd never seen her act even remotely submissive before, but she was on her back peeing in the air when I pulled that stupid dog off of her. :mad:

Dals are the only breed that gives me pause, because I have not once had a positive experience with one. Maybe someday I'll meet a nice PT dal and change my mind. ^_^

captain
06-26-2003, 06:12 PM
Wolfchan,

My beautiful boy Captain would like to help you change your mind about Dals!:D

I will agree with you tho. Dalmatians, if not socialised well from a young age become horrible, nasty, aggressive dogs.
Mind you, that could be said of many other breeds too I guess ..?

Sorry you had a bad experience ....:(

Kfamr
06-26-2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by captain


I will agree with you tho. Dalmatians, if not socialised well from a young age become horrible, nasty, aggressive dogs.
Mind you, that could be said of many other breeds too I guess ..?


ANY and EVERY breed can turn out like that.

luckypenny
04-09-2007, 05:43 PM
Sorry, but I have to share my Pit Bull experience. I read all of the forum posts and have tried to stay focused and open minded about the Pit Bull Breed.

I realaize that most of the bad behavior is caused by the "owner", but that does not ease the pain of a recent dog mauling on my very own front porch.

Yes, it happened this past Saturday. The responsible dog was a Pit Bull running loose, and it charged us from behind, attacking my senior dog.

My dog has a gentle, sweet soul and loves to go the to the dog park. She does not have a mean bone in her body and was viciously attacked from behind while trying to get inside the house.

I will not go into any of the cruel details, but what about my rights? What about my animals rights? This is the third unsavory experience I have had with this breed.

I tried to keep an open mind, watching the tail wagging happy variety of Pit Bull romp at the local dog park. I even changed my opinion of them, until this latest event.

I am sorry to say that "owners" are responsible for a very bad reputation that is ruining this dog breed. I love all animals and feel sorry for the dog, as it is not the dog's fault, but that does not change the outcome.

And...what if it had been my neighbors toddler.

Sorry...I believe this event has pushed me back over the fence on this issue

Karen
04-09-2007, 05:49 PM
This thread is originally from 2003, just so you know. I am sorry about your recent experience. It isn't the breed that's all fault, but the humans who own them. Some breeds are more likely to be owned by certain types of people than others - someone who wants to appear as a "tough guy" wouldn't be drawn to getting a Maltese, but a pitbull, well, that's seen as making a "statement."

It isn't the dog's fault, that you know well, but the fault of people who either don;t train them, train them badly, or train them to fight ... which is tragic, because this is a breed that CAN be a great family pet.

lizbud
04-09-2007, 05:53 PM
This thread is originally from 2003, just so you know. I am sorry about your recent experience. It isn't the breed that's all fault, but the humans who own them. Some breeds are more likely to be owned by certain types of people than others - someone who wants to appear as a "tough guy" wouldn't be drawn to getting a Maltese, but a pitbull, well, that's seen as making a "statement."

It isn't the dog's fault, that you know well, but the fault of people who either don;t train them, train them badly, or train them to fight ... which is tragic, because this is a breed that CAN be a great family pet.


Wow, this is an old thread. I agree Karen. Most people who aquire Pit Bulls know nothing about the breed at all. Truth be told, they probably don't know
anything about proper training of any breed of dog. They get the Bully breeds
for all the wrong reasons.It's a darn shame.

Marigold2
04-09-2007, 06:24 PM
Different dogs have different tempermants. People purchase pure breeds because of certain traits they have. Why we have herding dogs, hunting dogs, dogs for protective, dogs to sniff out drugs. Everyone knows that labs make good family pets and are wonderful with kids. I believe that Pit Bulls are not a family dog, their tempermant is not suited for this role. Are there kind, gentle Pit bulls, yes but not as many as labs. We except the fact that a German Shepard is a good watch dog. A bloodhound is excellent for tracking a Newfoundland for swimming how about excepting a Pit bull for having a bad temper and the ability to kick some butt. That is what they are bred for and they are for the most part true to their nature as are Bloodhounds. Breeding shows ,breeding often overcomes training.

Sevaede
04-09-2007, 06:34 PM
Luckypenny,

I do have to say that a pit bull is no more inclined to do such things as any other breeds.

Pit bull is a catchall term to define a GROUP of dogs, just as an fyi.

Also, make sure you're correctly identifying a dog, another fyi.

My bad experiences with dogs have been with Labs and Dachshunds, unfortunately.

Jadapit
04-09-2007, 06:35 PM
I'm sorry but I've been around some nasty tempered labs in my life. Did you read the story where the lady had her face eaten off by her dog while she slept? They did a face transplant on her. Guess what kind of dog she owned? A lab. Of course all labs aren't bad but neither are all pit bulls. I have yet to see that "bad" temper you are talking about with my pitties.

I bet all the familes that own pit bulls wouldn't agree with you, they do make a great family dog. :)

Sevaede
04-09-2007, 06:43 PM
I believe that Pit Bulls are not a family dog, their tempermant is not suited for this role. Are there kind, gentle Pit bulls, yes but not as many as labs. We except the fact that a German Shepard is a good watch dog. A bloodhound is excellent for tracking a Newfoundland for swimming how about excepting a Pit bull for having a bad temper and the ability to kick some butt. That is what they are bred for and they are for the most part true to their nature as are Bloodhounds. Breeding shows ,breeding often overcomes training.

Hardly. I have a friend who grew up with two rather aggressive Labs as guard dogs. Just because a dog originated or is bred for one reason doesn't mean that is the SOLE reason for their existence at this point in time. Another friend of mine has eight children all of which her pit bull is VERY good with. Shoot, her pittie is excellent with strangers, cats, birds, sugar gliders, etc etc.

My biomother had a pit bull growing up. I've had Rotties, German Shepherds, etc. My husband had a pit bull that was the sweetest dog he'd ever had in his life. :)

Pit bulls have a variety of originations, "uses", etc. Shoot, a lot of little breeds were used to hunt rats, etc. Do they do it any more? Not in most places (however, they are going back to using longhaired Doxies for water retrieving).

dukedogsmom
04-09-2007, 06:57 PM
Why was this dug out and bumped up? I suspect just to make trouble.

Roxyluvsme13
04-09-2007, 07:27 PM
As a Pit Bull mix owner, I can say that it is certainly not the dog, it's the owner. With the right care and training a Pit Bull can be a lovable pet. Labs aren't always good natured dogs. It's like a story I read. Any dog can be just as dangerous as another.

Pit Bulls get the bad rep for it, but they're not all the ones attacking.

A Pomeranian, a little bitty tiny Pomeranian, killed a 10 month old baby. And that was probably the owner's fault for their dog not having proper training. You don't see people going around the streets calling Pomeranians vicious dogs, do you?

Cheshirekatt
04-09-2007, 07:37 PM
Why was this dug out and bumped up? I suspect just to make trouble.


I suspect you're right. This thread is quite a blast from the past.

Karen
04-09-2007, 07:51 PM
Why was this dug out and bumped up? I suspect just to make trouble.

No, I don't think it was. I think she was searching on the Internet and found the thread, and registered to reply to it because of her most recent experience. Often people find old threads without realizing they are old.

Marigold2
04-09-2007, 09:47 PM
My best friend has a pit bull DOTD 12/5 I believe, her name is Bailey and she is a sweetheart, a truly precious girl. I am not saying that all Pits are bad, all I am saying is that they were raised and trained to fight by many, and one never knows if those aggressive traits are still in the pup one might adopt. I want to keep this on a friendly pace, so if anyone has a pit I mean no ill will. However people do not bred labs to fight, they bred pits, bloodhounds are bred to smell and so forth. Breeding is done for a reason. The reason some people bred Pits is wrong. Not the dogs fault.

Cheshirekatt
04-09-2007, 10:03 PM
Just as much damage can be done by an owner of say a lab who completely ignores the dog aggression and human aggression that many have shown.

Many dogs who haven't been bred for fighting can be just as dog aggressive as those that are bred for fighting. And many who have been bred to fight can be total pussy cats. Take Hank, the dog fighters dog who was doomed to death as a bait dog, to train the others to fight. Apparently he just rolled over onto his back and waited for it all to be over. Luckily, we got him in time. He now lives with cats, kids and other dogs. It's not all in the breeding, and it's not all in how you raise them. There are many variable factors that must be considered.

Dog aggression and human aggression are two totally different things and should not be confused or used interchangably.

Freedom
04-09-2007, 10:09 PM
As for the subject, i find how people feel about Pit Bulls racism... Breedism.

HEY, I was going to say that! I agree.

buttercup132
04-10-2007, 01:23 AM
Just as much damage can be done by an owner of say a lab who completely ignores the dog aggression and human aggression that many have shown Ya, no kidding. Funny how people use Labs and Goldens as examples to use against Pits but they are higher on the list of agressive dogs and of course the wonderful Pitty is at the bottom:D Dogs can be dog agressive, obviously this PitBull was. So? Any dog can be dog agressive it's stupid that it gets turned around and blamed on a innocent breed when it can happen to ANY dog.

Sevaede
04-10-2007, 02:39 AM
My best friend has a pit bull DOTD 12/5 I believe, her name is Bailey and she is a sweetheart, a truly precious girl. I am not saying that all Pits are bad, all I am saying is that they were raised and trained to fight by many, and one never knows if those aggressive traits are still in the pup one might adopt. I want to keep this on a friendly pace, so if anyone has a pit I mean no ill will. However people do not bred labs to fight, they bred pits, bloodhounds are bred to smell and so forth. Breeding is done for a reason. The reason some people bred Pits is wrong. Not the dogs fault.

If you go through a reputable breeder then I don't think there is much risk for that aggressiveness that may or may not be "left" in the genes? Don't get one through a shady breeder, dog fighter, one with "issues", etc.

The whole point is, dogs do not do what they were originally bred for as if they're programmed or something. They have to be trained and taught.

luckypenny
04-10-2007, 12:00 PM
Sorry if I stirred things up, but I was rather emotional yesterday. One of the people that responded was correct, I did happen across the old post and registered as a means to help deal with my pain.

I have a follow up. The Animal Control Officers were the ones that told me the dog was a Pit Bull. The dog in question was most likely bred to be aggressive. They were able to catch the dog as it came back while they were there photograghing the scene and my dogs injuries. Also several of my neighbors also came to my aid during and after the attack. Nice to know that I have such a great neighborhood. Using hoses we chased the dog off.


The Emergency Vet told me that when Animal Control Officers contacted the owner, and there was a nasty confrontation. The Animal Control Officers had to call the Police, as they were in fear of their safety.

They found a breeding situation and confiscated all of their dogs. There is a DOG GOD. I will not seek damages, as I feel justice has been done. I hope that the puppies find good homes. Our county has a strict policy regarding aggressive dogs, therefore this dog has a sad future.

My dog is recovering slowly, is on a high dosage of antibiotics and will recover. Thank God.

What can be done about the aggressive breeding of these animals? I know that it is not all dogs. I know that all dogs can bite, this was so much more than that. Thank goodness it was not a toddler, or me.

Of course I am traumatized. I love all animals, but this as really left an impact on me. To have my dog mauled, as this animal charged us from behind, is a nightmare that I cannot shake.

The Vet has urged me to take my senior back to the dog park when her injuries heal. It is something that we both used to enjoy so much.

Now it frightens me. I am so saddened by what is happening in our society.
I wish that we could control this in our cities, but I don't know how without restricting great dog owners to truly care and love their dogs.

Anyway, I am still really having a hard time dealing with this, but will not seek anything for my damages, as I hope that justice has been served.

I hope that no one else ever has this experience. I really mean that, and it makes me sad to think that someone thought that I wrote this only to "stir things up".

Sorry if that is what has occurred, but perhaps it will bring more awareness to a growing problem in out society.

Thank you all for listening and helping me heal.

Ginger's Mom
04-10-2007, 12:20 PM
I, too, suspected that your post was an honest attempt to work out your feeling of helplessness at this particular situation. I am so sorry that you had such an unpleasant experience, and I hope that your dog fully recovers quickly. As you can see many of us on here strongly believe that good training, breeding, and socialization can make all types of dogs pleasant additions to any community. The problems occur when people do not take the time and/or effort to do that, or own a dog for all of the wrong reasons.
I hope you will continue share your dog's recovery with us.

Jadapit
04-10-2007, 12:41 PM
luckypenny, I'm truly sorry you had to go through that with you dog. I cant even imagine how traumatic that would have been. Being a pit bull owner I honestly do my very best to be a responsible good owner. When you do own a pit bull or multiple pit bulls you have to use some common sense, its really not that hard. Sadly, so many of the pit bull owners do not use any common sense when it comes to owning the breed. Yes, pit bulls can be dog aggressive they should never show any human aggression , never.

In my opinion, I don’t think pit bull owners should take their dogs to an off leash dog parks. A lot of pit bulls do just fine with other dogs, but if another dog were to start a fight and the pit bull happened to fight back the pit bull is going to be blamed no matter what and more than likely the pit bull will win the fight. A lady that really knows a lot about the pit bull breed wrote this. I couldn't agree more with everything she has to say. Again I'm sorry your precious fur kid was hurt.


WHAT IS

RESPONSIBLE

MANAGEMENT

OF YOUR

DOG?
1) Responsible owners understand the breed is in a "fad" population crisis. They understand the shelters are full of purebred pit bulls dying every day.

2) Responsible owners do not breed puppies for resale. They do NOT breed without a full waiting list. They do not advertise in newspapers or the internet to sell their puppies.

3) Responsible owners do not breed animals which have not been health tested and have correct temperament and conformation. No responsible breeder produces more than one litter a year. Period.

4) Responsible owners will faithfully steward the breed, leaving it in the same condition it was handed to them. They do not change the breed to fit fads such as larger size, overdone bodies or to fit show ring criteria. The do not mix American Staffordshire and American pit bull bloodlines. They understand the purpose and physical requirements of their breed's uses.

5) Responsible owners NEVER let their dog roam. Notice I did not say "allow" - I said "let". This means they are careful and do not allow "accidents" to happen. They take precautions and spend the time and money to contain their dog appropriately. They are smarter than their dog...

6) They do NOT tolerate unsound behavior in the breed. If their dog is unsound, and shows unwarranted human aggression, they euthanize the dog. They do not make excuses for their dog.

7) They manage their dogs appropriately. They do not keep their dogs in inappropriate situations which do not allow the dogs sufficient exercise, nor do they put their dogs in inappropriate situations, such as taking them to an off-lead dog park. They understand and respect their dog's heritage. They socialize and train their dogs to be good citizens.

pitc9
04-10-2007, 12:43 PM
In my opinion, I don’t think pit bull owners should take their dogs to an off leash dog parks. A lot of pit bulls do just fine with other dogs, but if another dog were to start a fight and the pit bull happened to fight back the pit bull is going to be blamed no matter what and more than likely the pit bull will win the fight.

You are 100000000000% correct!!
It's not like the pitt would necessarily fight to kill, it's just that pitts are so strong that it would just happen that way.

:(

Suki Wingy
04-10-2007, 09:16 PM
well, since this thread has been brought up, I just finished a 6 page research paper on the effectivness of banning breeds, namley pit bull type breeds. I should post it some time but it is saved on a different computer.

Marigold2
04-10-2007, 11:20 PM
There have been many news reports about deaths caused by dogs in the USA. The attention given to the homicides has put the spotlight on pit bulls and Rottweilers. There is a very good reason for focusing on these two breeds: in recent years, they have usually been the number one and number two canine killers of humans. (See below, The breeds most likely to kill (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite).) It therefore is correct to single out those two breeds when talking about canine homicides, because those two breeds lately have caused half or more of the deaths -- a disgraceful statistic whether it is regarded as the fault of the dogs, their breeders, their owners, or all three.

However, the focus on death cases may leave the public with the false impression that pit bulls and Rottweilers are responsible for the dog bite epidemic. It is a much broader problem than that, involving all dogs and all dog owners. While pit bulls and Rottweilers inflict a disproportionate number of serious and even fatal injuries, the dog bite epidemic involves many different breeds, and results from many different causes. A clear distinction needs to be made between canine homicides (i.e., incidents in which dogs kill people) and the dog bite epidemic.

Canine inflicted homicides have remained at the same general level (15 to 20 annually), which cannot be said for the number of dog bites, which is too high (5 million annually) and appears to be growing higher (see statistics, above). Considering the fact that there are 65 million dogs in the United States (see above), the homicide problem is minuscule. This is not to denigrate it, but to point out that eliminating it entirely would save only 15 to 20 people, out of the 5 million who are bitten by dogs.

The confusion caused by discussing the homicides and the dog bites in the same breath has its most important ramification in the area of prevention. Some are advocating the banning of pit bulls, Rottweilers and possibly other breeds, for reasons that range from their alleged dangerousness to the fact that they are very often treated inhumanely. Those who hear about the homicides often support breed bans. (See Breed Specific Laws, Regulations and Bans (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/breedlaws.html).)

However, while banning the pit bull might lower the number of human deaths, such a ban would probably not reduce the number dog bites in any significant manner. After the United Kingdom banned pit bulls in the 1990s, a study showed that the number of dog bites remained the same even though the number of pit bulls had steeply declined. (Study cited in B. Heady and P. Krause, "Health Benefits and Potential Public Savings Due to Pets: Australian and German Survey Results," Australian Social Monitor, Vol.2, No.2, May 1999.)

As a practical matter, the current tide of public outrage should be focused on the enactment of measures that would deal effectively with the entire epidemic, not merely the breeds that kill. It would be unwise to enact all kinds of controls on one or two breeds, not necessarily because it would be unfair, but because it would produce narrow and therefore unsatisfactory results. The war against crime isn't a war against just the bank robbers, but against all criminals; the war against drugs isn't a war against just the Colombian drug lords, but all drug lords. For the same reason, the dog bite epidemic must not focus on just one or two breeds and stop there. The war on this epidemic must be comprehensive.

To learn more, read Attorney Kenneth Phillips' 10-point plan for Preventing Dog Bites (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/prevent.html).

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/graphics/Top.gif (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Top)

[/url]

In recent years, the dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:


"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. ("]The breeds most likely to kill Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.


An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).


Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.
To learn more about dog attacks, see Why dogs bite people (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/whybite.html) To learn about how to take some of the bite out of the dog bite epidemic, see Attorney Kenneth Phillips' 10-point plan for Preventing Dog Bites (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/prevent.html).</STRONG>

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/graphics/Top.gif (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Top)



Studies of dog bite injuries have reported that:


The median age of patients bitten was 15 years, with children, especially boys aged 5 to 9 years, having the highest incidence rate
The odds that a bite victim will be a child are 3.2 to 1. (CDC.)
Children seen in emergency departments were more likely than older persons to be bitten on the face, neck, and head. 77% of injuries to children under 10 years old are facial.
Severe injuries occur almost exclusively in children less than 10 years of age.
The majority of dog attacks (61%) happen at home or in a familiar place.
The vast majority of biting dogs (77%) belong to the victim's family or a friend.
When a child less than 4 years old is the victim, the family dog was the attacker half the time (47%), and the attack almost always happened in the family home (90%).
Dog bites rank second among other common causes of emergency-room injuries (table derived from Weiss HB, Friedman DI, Coben JH. "Incidence of dog bite injuries treated in emergency departments ("]Children are the most frequent targets [url="http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Top)," supra, p. 53):

crow_noir
04-11-2007, 12:50 AM
It will take time to heal. If you truly love dogs you will find a way to heal.

It has been almost 10 years since i got attacked by a 160lb trained fighting dog. I still sometimes have flashbacks.

The odd thing is after the attack it was my favorite breed that i became most fearful of. The German Shepherd. (The dog that attacked me was supposedly Rott/Irish Setter, but looked 100% Yellow Lab.) (Try and figure out the psychology behind my brain's reasoning on that one. :rolleyes: )

I never had an ounce of fear in me before i got attacked. I didn't even fear the aggressive strays that were around. Respect for what they could do with their teeth yes; but fear, no. Now I can honestly say that i do fear dogs from time to time and even have a few panic attacks.

That is all pretty much behind me now though except for the rare occasional relapse. Those are usually over with in a few minutes.

What did I do?

Well, for I think the first few months i just let my emotions do whatever they were going to do. Besides dogs that i Knew VERY well I pretty much stayed away from other dogs. Then when i wasn't going being paralyzed any more by the mere sight of a dog I started to force myself to go up to every person/dog that i seen. Asking permission of I could pet their dog. I started going places where i know other dogs would be. When i started to be a bit more confident I joined a socialization class for dogs and even eventually went through the pound.

You know yourself best. Set the pace, but definitely work at it.

I don't suggest going to the dog park as soon as your dog recovers... that could be too much too soon. Try heading to a huge pet store first and see how both of you react.

G'luck. *HUGS*

~~~~

Glad to hear that something good came out of this tragedy.

~~~~

*edit note: Rotties are still one of my favorite breeds and i don't hold it against them for what one idiot did with his dog. (Mind you this dog left the guy's children with many wounds... He valued money more.)


Sorry if I stirred things up, but I was rather emotional yesterday. One of the people that responded was correct, I did happen across the old post and registered as a means to help deal with my pain.

I have a follow up. The Animal Control Officers were the ones that told me the dog was a Pit Bull. The dog in question was most likely bred to be aggressive. They were able to catch the dog as it came back while they were there photograghing the scene and my dogs injuries. Also several of my neighbors also came to my aid during and after the attack. Nice to know that I have such a great neighborhood. Using hoses we chased the dog off.


The Emergency Vet told me that when Animal Control Officers contacted the owner, and there was a nasty confrontation. The Animal Control Officers had to call the Police, as they were in fear of their safety.

They found a breeding situation and confiscated all of their dogs. There is a DOG GOD. I will not seek damages, as I feel justice has been done. I hope that the puppies find good homes. Our county has a strict policy regarding aggressive dogs, therefore this dog has a sad future.

My dog is recovering slowly, is on a high dosage of antibiotics and will recover. Thank God.

What can be done about the aggressive breeding of these animals? I know that it is not all dogs. I know that all dogs can bite, this was so much more than that. Thank goodness it was not a toddler, or me.

Of course I am traumatized. I love all animals, but this as really left an impact on me. To have my dog mauled, as this animal charged us from behind, is a nightmare that I cannot shake.

The Vet has urged me to take my senior back to the dog park when her injuries heal. It is something that we both used to enjoy so much.

Now it frightens me. I am so saddened by what is happening in our society.
I wish that we could control this in our cities, but I don't know how without restricting great dog owners to truly care and love their dogs.

Anyway, I am still really having a hard time dealing with this, but will not seek anything for my damages, as I hope that justice has been served.

I hope that no one else ever has this experience. I really mean that, and it makes me sad to think that someone thought that I wrote this only to "stir things up".

Sorry if that is what has occurred, but perhaps it will bring more awareness to a growing problem in out society.

Thank you all for listening and helping me heal.

luckypenny
04-13-2007, 11:06 AM
My little girl is healing up nicely after her unfortunate experince, so last night I took her back to the dog park. This is our favorite place :)

Of course I had many mixed up feelings about it, but this is where our friends are. The outcome was really positive. I was able to share with my friends there, and my dog was so happy to romp with her buddies :)

Towards the end of the night a young guy came into the small dog area of the Park, where we go. He had a 4 month old Pit Bull puppy that was the same color as the one that attacked my dog. This little guy was just adorable and so happy.

It seemed like an omen to me.... I had a long conversation with this guy and learned that his Mom fosters puppies that are taken away from irresponsible owners. I explained my experience to him and he was so understanding. He has seen first hand the problems that come from owners that don't provide a good home.

I could see the innocence in this young dog and watched as our dogs interacted in a really positive way.

It really warmed my heart and helped me to overcome some of the horrible memories that I was holding onto.

What have I learned from this experience?

1. Dogs can teach you alot. They are so forgiving and don't seem to hold a grudge.

2. Irresponsible owners should not be allowed to have or breed dogs

and last

3. Pit Bulls are really great dogs, when raised in the right environment.

Thank you for everyone who wrote to me through this forum. It was through your words that I was able to grow and find my way back....

elizabethann
04-13-2007, 11:59 AM
I have always loved all dogs, however no matter how nice a pit bull is I would never trust one and would not go near one. I also agree that the owners are responsible for what happens with their pit bulls and the law should be very strict in making owners take out insurance and they should go to obedience school although I don't know if that would help.

My reasoning: Our two Schnauzers were attacked in our own patio by a pitbull who lived next door. We had put up a six foot fence all the way down to the street to protect our dogs, however this pitbull broke his chain, then broke through our fence to get to them. We happen to be at the grocery store. When we came home we found our male lying on the bottom step of our patio barely alive, he had punctured lungs and bites. Our little female was in the dog house with her shoulder ripped wide open and bleeding profusely. the pitbull's chain got caught on a fence or he would have finished them off. That was a year ago and I still have nightmares about finding them like that.
We rushed them to the emergency vet hospital, they were there over a week and I'm happy to say they are doing wonderful today, after Daisy had surgery on her shoulder and Perry's lungs and bites got better. Our Vet bills were way over 3,000, who paid for them? Not the people who had the Pitbull, they were renting as section 8s and the owner of the house paid. The owners of the pitbull were summoned to court, did they show up? No, there is a arrest warrent for them.
We went through a very long period of rehabilition with them, carrying them in and out etc. etc. The people next door had three pitbulls, now they are down to one and our dogs are prisoners in their own yard, we cannot let them outside without one of us with them.
The same week this happened another elderly woman was sitting on the porch in our city with her dog and another pitbull attacked her dog and luckily a passerby saved it.
Do I like Pitbulls? I realize all dogs are different, however I would never trust one and don't expect to ever be near one if I can help it.
Jackie, Perry and Miss Daisy

OMG. I felt so bad after reading your post. I can only imagine your pain when that happened. I'm sending you a virtual hug.

Ginger's Mom
04-13-2007, 12:36 PM
I am glad you came back to share more of your story with us luckypenny. And before I go any further let me say that Penny is adorable . :) I am very glad to hear that she was able to go back to the park and play with her friends. I know how awful I would have felt if this incident made her more fearful around other dogs. Fortunately it has not, and she is able to run and play again. Yay! I am also pleased at the timing of your visit to the park. The dog park is the place to meet responsible dog owners and learn more about all breeds of dogs. I am glad that speaking with this young man has made you feel better, and I am especially glad that precious Penny is doing so well.

crow_noir
04-14-2007, 02:20 AM
So glad to hear that you and Penny are doing better! :D


My little girl is healing up nicely after her unfortunate experince, so last night I took her back to the dog park. This is our favorite place :)

Of course I had many mixed up feelings about it, but this is where our friends are. The outcome was really positive. I was able to share with my friends there, and my dog was so happy to romp with her buddies :)

Towards the end of the night a young guy came into the small dog area of the Park, where we go. He had a 4 month old Pit Bull puppy that was the same color as the one that attacked my dog. This little guy was just adorable and so happy.

It seemed like an omen to me.... I had a long conversation with this guy and learned that his Mom fosters puppies that are taken away from irresponsible owners. I explained my experience to him and he was so understanding. He has seen first hand the problems that come from owners that don't provide a good home.

I could see the innocence in this young dog and watched as our dogs interacted in a really positive way.

It really warmed my heart and helped me to overcome some of the horrible memories that I was holding onto.

What have I learned from this experience?

1. Dogs can teach you alot. They are so forgiving and don't seem to hold a grudge.

2. Irresponsible owners should not be allowed to have or breed dogs

and last

3. Pit Bulls are really great dogs, when raised in the right environment.

Thank you for everyone who wrote to me through this forum. It was through your words that I was able to grow and find my way back....