Bassett's surgery...

[Nomilynn]

I'm posting a new thread about Bassett's surgery, in case people haven't been keeping up with the "Some not so good news" thread. It's the same information as the other post, just in a new place.



Ok.. I'm finally able to give you that big update I promised before.

On Friday Bassett went in again to have another 150cc drawn off. I have now started thinking about the surgery options. I talked to a surgeon on Friday, and I really really liked her. She explained everything to me in a clear way without dummying it down.. she did not make me feel stupid or anything. I would be very comfortable with this woman giving Bassett her surgery.

The surgery is very extensive and invasive. They have to open up Bassett's chest cavity (thoracotomy) and then there are three procedures that take place.

1) First the pericardium, or the sac that the heart sits in, is removed. Dr. Schiller (the surgeon) says that in removing this sac, the flow dynamics of the blood and lymph fluids (the chyle that accumulates in Bassett's chest is a lymph fluid) is changed. In removing this sac, the heart does not have to work as hard and therefore the pressure on the vessels is less. She described it as "removing an avenue for the fluid to accumulate."

2) The next step is the thoracic duct ligation. This means that the thoracic duct would be tied off just where it enters the chest cavity, forcing the fluid to find another place to dispel and then be absorbed by the body's fat. Where it is accumulating now, there is nothing to absorb it, and that's why it's just sitting in Bassett's pleural cavity rather than being absorbed.

3) The last part of the surgery is some omentum, which is fat from around the small intestine, is brought up through the diaphragm and into the chest cavity, so that if fluid does accumulate, the omentum fat can act like a wick and draw the fluid out of the chest.

After the surgery, Bassett would have to stay in intensive care for at least five days, and then I don't know if I would take her home or if I would have to leave her at my own vet for a period of time (this surgery would be done at the same critical care unit that Bassett had her ultrasound). The surgeon said that this is Bassett's best chance at making it through this disease, and even at that the success rate is only 30-50%. I don't know if that means a complete recovery or if it includes even a partial recovery. What I mean by that is this procedure sometimes is a complete cure, a partial cure meaning fluid still accumulates but medical managment and drug therapy can control it, and sometimes if cures the cat for a while and then the disease can come back. Also, there is a chance it won't work at all.

Now for the final blow.. Dr. Schiller wrote me up an estimate, and the total came to $4750. That does not include my other expenses like travel, finding a place to stay, etc. I still have a lot of questions for the surgeon and so I'm not 100% sure this is what I want to do, but I'm leaning this way. Bassett is so happy and chipper otherwise, that I feel like it would be unfair to not give her this opportunity. However, it's a very expensive chance. I still feel like I need to talk to the surgeon about the risks and everything.

I'm also going to ask you all a favour. If you could, try to put yourself into my situation, and think of the questions you would have for the surgeon. I'm so overwhelmed because I'm so involved with this that I'm sure there are things I should ask that I am not thinking of. Then I can print them out and call the surgeon about it. That would be a great help to me.

So, I think that's all I know so far. I will be getting in touch with the bank tomorrow to see if I can take out some kind of loan. I need to set up the money in case I decide to do this.

Thank you all for the continued support and prayers.

Naomi

[PayItForward]

Poor Bassett. :(

Sending many {{{hugs}}} for you both.

Can the vet tell you Bassett chances of having a complete cure V partial recovery ?

This must be such a difficult decision for you too make and a very expensive operation to cover.

Thinking of you at this very difficult time.

[TheAntiPam]

Bassett - we're praying for you and your mommy! She is worried about your health, about how to make you better, and about the cost of the surgery. She is doing her best to balance some very difficult issues, so do your part and keep trying to get better!

Naomi - your situation brings up two touchy subjects -
money vs. pets. Most of us would say we'd spend ANY amount on our beloved pets, but when faced with the facts, we might choose differently. Or, we want to spend the money, but we just don't have it! That doesn't make us "bad"; we each must decide for ourselves and our pets.

surgery vs. not. When the vet gives us choices that could have a terrible outcome, we might choose the course that someone else thinks is wrong. And we have to live with that choice forever. It is very very scary!

Just know that many PetTalk people have had to face these choices and we want to support you through whatever you decide!

[NoahsMommy]

Naomi,

I have a few questions:

*What Bassett's life would be like after the surgery.

*Removing the sack the heart sits in, would that effect her after?

*Medical management, does that mean more ultrasounds?

*Will the meds be the same as what she's currently taking?

*Can you be connected with a pet owner who's cat has had this procedure?

*How many of these surgeries has she done? Maybe she's able to tell you what she feels Bassett's chances of a recovery are.

I'm so, so sorry you are having to deal with this. Whatever avenue you choose, know that David and I are here for you. We know how much you love your little girl, that she's your heart kitty, like my Noah. I can't even imagine your thoughts and feelings. I do know that things are part of a greater plan and that Bassett will be taken care of and happy. God loves all his creation. I know its amazingly hard to swallow that she even has this, but she's a trooper and is being strong for us all. She's an amazing little girl...

Love,
Kelly, David and the furkids :)

[wolf_Q]

Naomi, I'm not sure what to say...:( We all support you no matter what you decide to do. *Hugs* to Bassett.

[ChrisH]

Naomi, I am something like Wolf Q in that I`m not sure what to say. Such hard decisions to be made. Please know that you have my support in whatever you do, along with my love and prayers.

Big, big, hugs.
Chris

[Miss Meow]

Only you can answer the question of whether to proceed. It's you who is seeing Bassett's health failing without surgery, but it will also be you who'll be in debt and going through the stress of putting her through major surgery.

I feel a bit useless in that I can't give an opinion one way or the other, bit if it were one of my cats which was young and otherwise healthy, then I'd think seriously about proceeding with surgery.

NoahsMommy raised some interesting questions, especially about trying to contact people who've had pets go through the surgery. Also, how will you feel if you put her through the surgery, but six months down the track her symptoms return - what will you do? We can all hope and pray for a happy outcome, but you need to look into your heart and consider all possible outcomes and do the best for Bassett.

My heart is going out to you, Naomi. You've been through so much with your girl. I really, really hope you make the right decision for both of you.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Naomi, I also don't know what to say here. Only you can make this choice about Bassett and please remember that I'll support your decision in whatever you decide to do. I also think that Kelly has posted a lot of very good questions for you to ask the surgeon. I'm so sorry that it's come down to this. Please take care. {{{HUGS}}}

[kimlovescats]

Pray about it, and do whatever you feel is most reasonable for Bassett as well as yourself! I think everyone here will support whatever decision you make!;)

[Catsnclay]

Wow, what a decision you have to make! Kelly did have some good questions for the surgeon. We were told that the surgery was not 100% effective like you were, but you are talking about something completely different then what we were told. So, that makes me wonder if there are different types of surgery out there.....see if there are other surgical options.

No matter what your decision is, we are also here for you, and are very interested in the outcome.............you never know when this information will be needed by someone else.

We are here for you!
Bunny & the boys

[Barbara]

Oh, Naomi, what a tough decision you have to take.

I think Kelly's questions are very good and I also would ask the surgeon how the odds are. The surgery and the period after will be a very hard time for poor Bassett and if the chances are low that the surgery is a full success, then it might be too stressy for her.

You should also try to calculate the additional cost if you have to control the problem with drugs etc. later.

If it was just the money issue and you could be more or less sure that Bassett after the surgery can lead a normal life and get 14 years and older, you would find a solution...

I am sure you will be able to take the right decision. But it seems nearly too tough to put up with.

[HayleyRosie]

Naomi,

I really don't know what to say. I will be here for you now matter what your decision is. You and Bassett are in my thoughts and prayers.

Rosemary

[sasvermont]

Naomi, first of all, I am very, very sorry to hear about your baby. I know it is so tough on everyone involved. She is such a little trooper to have pulled through so many times.

Here's my opinion. If you have a good candiate for treatment and possibly a recovery, then go forward. If you have a bad candiate, as in behavior problems during treatments etc. and the Vet has little hope, then I would not proceed. But of course there is that question of money. And that question can be answered only by you. No one here would condem you for not going forward with such an expensive proposition. It is not bad to allow an animal to pass on to the next world, in a painless way.

I went through this with Gabe first when he was sick- and since the Vet had only bad news and he was not a good candiate behavior wise during Vet visits, he was allowed to sleep forever.

Graemer was an ok candiate for treatment, great behavior wise, but didn't make it - and he too is now asleep forever and out of pain.

The decision is yours as you are Bassetts MOM! She will always love you no matter what and when you decide.

Love and compassion.
SAS

[slick]

Naomi: My first question is how long do you have, before you have to make a decision?? And as NoahsMommy said, I would be very interested in speaking to someone who's kitty has had the same procedure. Don't know if that's possible but hopefully.
Will the Critical Care Hospital allow you to make payments??

It's a tough decision and I wish we could tell you what to do but your heart will let you know. Whatever you decide, we are behind you all the way and prayers are continuing for you and the furkids.

luv

[Karen]

You know we will be with you, whatever decision you make. My questions for the vet would be:

1. How common is this procedure?
2. How many of these operations has this surgeon done?
3. Any chance, as others have mentioned, of talking to people whose cats have been through this?
4. How with this effect her long-term health?
5. How will this effect her quality of life?
6. What are the side effects of this surgery?
7. If she will then be on medicine for the rest of her life, what are the side effects?

All our love to you and Bassett.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by slick
It's a tough decision and I wish we could tell you what to do but your heart will let you know. Whatever you decide, we are behind you all the way and prayers are continuing for you and the furkids.

luv

Couldn't have said it better, Slick. :)

Kelly had some great questions, and unfortunately I can't add any of my own, except the biggest thing I would ask is if she can give you any indication of what Bassett's chances would be, based on her prior experience. The other cats she has operated on that made it, were their symptoms similar to Bassett's, more severe or less severe, and what was their personality. Bassett seems to be so easy going about the whole thing that it seems she would certainly be a good patient which could only help her recover more quickly. She might be vague, trying not to give you false hope, but she has to understand that it is a very difficult decision and Bassett's chances of survival and quality of life are the most important factors considering the amount of money involved.

Like others have said, we will support you no matter what your decision is, and only you can make that decision.

{{{Hugs}}} to both you and Bassett, and thoughts and prayers going out to you to help you make the right decision. One that you can live with no matter what the outcome ends up being.

[Nomilynn]

Thank you, everyone, for your words of support and good questions to ask. There are quite a few that I had not thought of, and so I've added them to my (LONG) list. I will call the surgeon today and find out if I can make an appointment with her. For many of these questions to be answered, I guess she has to meet Bassett, so I'm not sure how all this would work.

Bassett's breathing has stayed quite calm over the weekend, so I'm pleased about that. I know there is fluid in there, but it's not affecting her as badly as it has before, so I'm going to wait for a bit before taking her in again.

Thank you all so much. You are all the best :)

Naomi

[slick]

Naomi: I'm on holidays starting June 9th for two weeks and can easily make myself available for you if you need it while you are on this side of the water. Just call me.

[lynnestankard]

Naomie - I'm so sorry to hear of this dreadful decision you have to make. I think everyone's covered the questions I would have asked. You're in my thoughts and special {{{Hugs}}} coming across the miles to you and Bassett. xxx

Lynne

[ramanth]

*hugs to you and Bassett*

I don't have any question or advice to offer. Just my support.

[Nomilynn]

Well, a bit of an update. Bassett and I have a consultation on Friday at noon with the surgeon. I'm going to go in, ask all my questions and then go from there. I'm also waiting for a call back from the bank to see if I can get a loan. ARRGH I'm beginning to unravel. I've made this appointment and I have no way of getting there or getting home. I am gonna pop I swear! :(

Anyway, thank you all so much for everything. You are all the best.

[RICHARD]

here in CA we have some teaching schools
(the surgeons there are learning their craft...
they are not just practicing for the heck of it..
there are certified surgeons to guide the students.) they do major surgeries to get the
up and comers used to new techniques!

are there any vet schools in your area???

speak to the doctor about the possiblility of
maybe using this surgery as a teaching 'tool'.

i know that sounds too simple and risky.

you wouldn't want to put your pet into the hands of a rookie, but it may be a way to offset the cost. Again, there are qualified surgeons in the OR to make sure that nothing goes wrong.....

your heart is your guide, but you have to believe that what is in your heart is the best possible
answer to the problem...

thank you for giving us the skinny on Bassett!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

So sad! I wish you the very best what ever you decide.
One thing I would ask/consider: if you went a head with the surgery, would you still have to pay that huge amount if Bassett didn't make it? I had a dog that had surgery and didn't pull through and it took me forever to pay off the bill and it was nothing like this will be.

There's just so much to decide. I'm behind you and support you what ever you decide.
(((HUGS)))

[Catsnclay]

Another thought........is there someone who can go with you & Bassett to this appointment? Sometimes a third party who isn't emotional is really good. Even though you have your list of questions, this person may come up with a few more while listening.

Don't get me wrong, I know you too will be listening, but some times having someone there for YOU is very helpful.

[anna_66]

I'm sorry to hear about this Naomi, I can't imagine if I had to be the one making the decision.
I'm sorry I don't have any questions for you to ask, I think everyone else has covered any that I thought of.
All of us here are hoping for the best outcome for your apt. on Friday. Know we will be here for you no matter what you decide.
{{{{{Hugs from us to you & Bassett}}}}}

[TheAntiPam]

Originally posted by Catsnclay
...is there someone who can go with you & Bassett to this appointment? ...
some times having someone there for YOU is very helpful.

Very good idea, Catsnclay! I agree 100%. I helped a friend during her illness, and I saw how important it is to have someone who is a step back from the situation emotionally.

Naomi, you and Bassett remain in our prayers - and don't be ashamed to have a friend go along - you deserve the support during this tough time!!!

[Sudilar]

Oh Naomi, such hard decisions you have to make. Get all the information you need to make a knowledgeable decision. When it comes to Killian, I always ask his vet, " What would you do if it were YOUR dog." In fact, now I don't even have to say the words. She tells me what she would do automatically.

Don't forget that sometimes quality of life is more important than quantity of life. Whatever you decide, it will be the best thing that can be done for Bassett because you love Bassett with all your heart.

Sending you huge hugs, strength and courage to make that decision.

[shais_mom]

You are in my thoughts.

[Cheshirekatt]

Whatever decision you make we're here for you and Bassett.

[gini]

Dear Naomi,

I just sat down and read all of the posts about Bassett from beginning to end. I had tears in my eyes as you described Bassett and your love and concern for her. I have such compassion for you because I know first-hand how difficult it is to make these decisions.

I think you have had excellent advice from everyone here - and I am sure it has helped you.

I feel that my biggest question would be the quality of life for Bassett after this surgery. I am basing that on my own experiences. All of this is for her to have a happy, healthy long life..........what is the prognosis on that question?

I too feel helpless here, but one thing I know that I can do is say prayers for YOU AND BASSETT!

If I was with you, I would want to give you the biggest hug and let you cry out all of your frustrations.

All of us are here for you - and with much love!

Dear Naomi! I am so sorry that I missed this thread, but I was in hospital myself.... I wish you and Bassett all the best;I surely will pray that she must pulll through! IMaybe we will be under surgery at the same time? Take care Naomi!!!

[Cataholic]

Naomi and Bassett-
My prayers are with you at this very emotional time. I think your answers will come to you, as this unfolds. I only want to know Bassett isn't in any discomfort.
Hugs,
Johanna

[Killearn Kitties]

Really can't add anything to what has been said already. I would rely quite heavily on my vet's own opinion. As an animal lover, I would be prepared to spend any money I had to help them, but on the other hand, I wouldn't do anything to keep an animal alive if I thought they would have no quality of life. You love Bassett and are seeing her every day. You will make the best decision for her. We are all here for you.
Praying for you both.

[Nomilynn]

Bassett had another drain today, and the fluid was pink :( That means there is blood in it. Hopefully, it's nothing more serious than there is irritation in the pleural cavity and there is some slight bleeding. God.. I just want this to be all over :(

[Sudilar]

Hugs to you and Bassett. I know how you feel. Hang in there. We are praying.

[anna_66]

:( More {{{{Hugs}}}} for you both.

[marysmerrycats]

:confused: I didn't know there was 2 threads...:confused: I just posted on the other one, I will copy it onto here...

[marysmerrycats]

ok here is the post from the other thread.,,,

Naomi
as I was reading this, I thought wow she really did explain it very well to you...because it seems to be explained so well in your post.
the first thing I wondered about it, was the 30-50% success rate.
you need to know, does that mean 30-50% as in her chances of making it THRU the surgery?? or does it mean her chances of the surgery helping? be very sure to find out what the chances are of something going wrong during a surgery like that...I don't want to scare you, but it is something to think about. that sounds like a extremely serious surgery! but she is only 4 yrs old(right?) so I would also be leaning toward wanting to have the surgery done on her if she were my cat.
also, can the vet give you information on other cats that have had that done, or do they know of anyone, maybe other vets have had patients with that disease? try the universities, maybe they have info on it. vet universities etc.
and, after the intensive care, how long til a complete reccovery?
will she be able to do normal activities and play after she is recovered? is there any known downside to life after the surgery?

that's all I can think of right now, but I will let you know if I think of anything else. you have SO MUCH to think about and so much worry, can I help you in any way, like with find/gathering info from universites and the interent? PLEASE let me know, I would be glad to .

[marysmerrycats]

also I wonder, would you vet let you make some kind of payment plan?

Richard had a good idea...thats what I meant about the universites but I don't think I stated it as clear.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Just want you to know my thoughts and prayers are with you and Bassett today.

[tatsxxx11]

Can't stop thinking of you Naomi and Bassett... praying hard for some good news. Love to you both. Sandra, Mr. B and Oliver

[gini]

I woke up thinking about Bassett and Kia............our babies that need our prayers right now.

I hope that good news will be posted today.

[slick]

Actually, this is going to sound kinda weird but I dreamt of Bassett last night. In fact I dreamt that because my balcony door is open all the stray cats came in and my 2 bdrm apt was run amuck with kitties and one of them was Bassett (must stop eating cheese before going to bed :eek: ) Anyway, I'll be checking in all day for an update too.

[Catsnclay]

Well, this is the big day for Basset & Naomi.........everything here is crossed and waiting!! I just know that she is going to post some GOOD news!!

[emily_the_spoiled]

Any news yet????

Our fingers and paws are crossed for you that all will go well with the surgeon...

Cheryl, Emily, and Tanner

[tatsxxx11]

Hoping and praying for a good report. Please Naomi, check in when you can. Love...

[marysmerrycats]

yes, please let us know...

[slick]

No update yet?? Oh dear. I'm off for the day. I'll just have to check for updates when I'm over at my brother's on Sunday night.

Praying that everything's OK Naomi!!

[batgirl1980]

Oh gosh, i'd been away.. (((HUGS))) I am so sorry you are going through this... I'm eagerly awaiting the news from your appointment today and how you and Bassie are feeling. Give her kisses for me.

You hang in there. We're all here for you no matter what!

[Nomilynn]

Sorry for the long delay! Yesterday I had my graduation ceremony and today I took Bassett for her cosultation. I haven't had time to check in until right now, I just walked in the door!

The consult went very well. The surgeon thinks that Bassett is a great candidate for surgery, and she has no concerns at all that Bassett will pull through. The success of the surgery is kind of a wait and see thing. I really liked her and I really feel like she is very competant. She also said that if I am going to go ahead with this, she wants to do it within the next couple of weeks. So, I hope to have made a final decision by monday.

Bassett did very well with the trip, considering the weather. It's very warm here and she was so hot, but she's such a little trooper. I just wiped her down with a cool towel, and if that doesn't work, I'll give her a bath tonight.

Anyway, I haven't gone over my notes for the consult yet, so I can't really say any more until I get it all straight in my head. I just didn't want to leave you hanging anymore :) I will post either late tonight or tomorrow with more information. For right now, Bassett is just happy she's home!

[PayItForward]

Bassett is just happy she's home!
And so are we....

Thinking of you both :D

[Cataholic]

I, too, am glad that Bassett is home! Get some rest, Naomi and Bassett. You two are going to need to take it easy for a while.

[Randi]

Naomi, I'm glad the visit to the vet (surgeon) went well. It's so important that it's someone you like and trust. :)

Thanks for taking time to post. Get some rest over the weekend and hopefully you'll be able to decide what's best for Bassett.

Hugs to you and kisses to Bassett!

[lynnestankard]

Naomi - you're in my thoughts - you're head must be in a whirl.
Hugs to both you and Bassett. Your in my thoughts and prayers. God Bless.

Lynne

[tatsxxx11]

What welcome news!! I'm SO happy for you and Bassett! And it sounds like you have complete confidence in your vet Naomi and that is so important and comforting, I'm sure! Now, you all get some rest and love on one another...I'll be keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers!! Hugs and cuddles to you sweet Bassett!:) Welcome Home! Love, Sandra, Mr. B and Oliver

[Killearn Kitties]

That's encouraging news! Still thinking of you both and wishing you all the best.

[Barbara]

This sounds good. There is so much you have to deal with now!
We think of Basset and you. :)

[Nomilynn]

I just took Bassett to the emergency vet. She was open mouth breathing. If I can find the money to do this surgery, I'm going to go for it. She needs it. I can't keep having her tapped every three days.

I just don't know what to do for the cost. It's a LOT of money. I need a 50% deposit, and the estimate was $4750. Where am I going to find money like that? Luckily, I can pay the remaining balance over three months. I told her that I JUST graduated and had not yet found work, and so once the deposit is paid, I have three months to come up with the rest. Sigh. It's so much money, but Bassett really needs this porcedure. Please pray that the answers will somehow become clear to me :(

[jenluckenbach]

OK this may be just a little unorthadox, but at the risk of making people angry.............here goes:

At least 30 people answered this thread. And I know for a fact that there are probably at least 20 MORE people on Pet Talk (if not more) who would also be interested.

If each one of us could afford to send Naomi $25 she'd have half of the amount that she needs for a deposit.

I WILL be willing to help.

Who else is with me????????????????

(for those not financially able, do NOT feel embarrased or pressured)

EDIT: $25 is just a number I chose to use, it is not mandatory

[shais_mom]

Not sure if I can send $25 but I can send some.
Just let me know where.

[gini]

Good morning..........count me in..........I just need an address....and the veterinarian's name.

And how could anyone be angry over such a non-selfish and generous idea?

[jenluckenbach]

Please go here:
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&postid=378335#post378335

[Nomilynn]

Bassett is doing much better this morning. She is breathing better and does not appear to be struggling. However, she still seems like she isn't feeling "good". I don't really know how else I could describe it. I know she is too hot. It's been really warm and humid here the past couple of days, and so I've been putting ice packs and frozen water bottles down for them. I'm hoping that her discomfort is because of the heat and nothing else. I haven't been to Jen's thread yet, but I'm heading there now. Thank you all SO MUCH for all your help. It means everything to me :)

[moosmom]

Count me in too! That and ALOT of prayers!!

[krazyaboutkatz]

Naomi, you can count on my help too. :) Please take care.

[slick]

I answered on the other thread. The cheque's in the mail and the prayers are on the way. We love you and Bassett and just want to do everything we can.

luv

[Nomilynn]

It's done..

Bassett's surgery is on June 23rd. I take her in at 9am and drop her off.


Wish us luck!

[PayItForward]

Best of luck Bassett, we'll be thinking of you all day (and your Mum too)

[sasvermont]

Naomi, I am putting a check in the mail right now.

Sas

[Karen]

See the other thread, the vet's office suggested credit card payments by phone might be simpler, and they've agreed to facilitate that, send receipts, etc.

See here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&postid=378335#post378335)

[marysmerrycats]

sounds like a wonderful vet clinic!:)

[Kirsten]

How could I miss all this with all my worrying about Luna? :( I feel so bad now! :(

Poor poor Bassett, and poor Nomilynn!

But it's wonderful to see how many people here want to help, and that Dr. Schiller sounds like a good vet!

Best wishes and good luck for your surgery!

Kirsten

[bluekat]

I wish you both the best of luck at the surgery.
Take care&Best wishes:)

Dear Naomi, I am so sorry I knew nothing about this. Today I managed to sit down a while longer and I read this thread completely!
Oh, I'm so sorry for Bassett! I will pray that all goes well!Isn't PT the best family in the whole world?!!!!