PDA

View Full Version : catholic church...



marysmerrycats
04-28-2003, 01:05 AM
I went to my nephews confirmation this evening.. and while I was sitting there in church, I was thinking, how do I feel about all this? before the scandal, I would NEVER have ever imagined that I would even CONSIDER changing churches, ever! but the churches attitude, their FIRST attitude about it sickened me(before they got all the bad ... see, another senior moment. I can't think of the word..!, )..ah! before they got all the bad publicity! now I know there are many, many very good priests, but the bad ones hurt the church and even more, the "its not so bad" attitude hurt it more!

anyway, I would like to know how many other catholics feel the same way? has it turned you away from the church?

Chinadoll
04-28-2003, 02:33 AM
I was raised Catholic, but I've never been big on the whole organized religion thing. I believe I can communicate with God...but it doesn't necessarily have to be during an hour mass every Sunday. So I may not be the right person to answer this since I really don't believe in the whole Sunday Mass thing..but here's my 2 cents.

When I do attend Mass, it's at my Future F-I-L's church. He's the Eucharistic Minister there. It's a beautiful church with a nice Jazz Mass on Sunday evenings. I've met the priest quite a few times and one of the deacons is a very nice former Marine that loves to talk about the Marine Corps with Joey. The whole Catholic Church scandal has not effected my opinion of this church or it's clergy at all. They're wonderful people. But, should I ever enter another Catholic church where I'm not familiar with the clergy, I would say yes, the scandal had an effect on me and would make me wonder about them.

Soledad
04-28-2003, 04:05 AM
I'm no longer Catholic. But I was raised Catholic, and if I felt the need to return, I would return to the Catholic church.

It's disgusting what happened within the Church. There is no excuse for the way things were handled. The pain that has been created and that will continue to exist for some time is immense, and those men and women should be punished for what they've done, I don't care if they're nuns or priests.

However, my feeling is that with Catholicism being as organised as it is, you're going to get a lot of press coverage connecting the cases. But since other denominations (who also practice in child sexual abuse) are not as organised and connected, the coverage/information is not broadcasted like these scandals have been.

I don't know if I made any sense just then. :rolleyes:

04-28-2003, 06:47 AM
I usually don't reply to threads about religion. But I wanna make an exeption here.
I am a Roman Catholic, because I believe in the Bible and Jesus; so just because of some bad priests are making a mess of it,my beliefs don't change. The base hasn't change, it was some people who were handling it badly! So ignore the mess; if you're believings are true, you will not quit.

Pam
04-28-2003, 07:07 AM
This topic came up before and I will just say before what I said then. There are horrible people of all faiths doing horrendous things. There recently was a rabbi on trial here in NJ for having his wife killed so he could continue an adulterous affair. There were the Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart fiascos several years ago. No religion is immune from these types of things because men are human. They sin like everyone else. There is no one perfect and hasn't been anyone perfect since Jesus walked on this earth. For those of us who are Christians (be it Catholic or Protestant) we need to get our eyes off the people in our churches and get them back on Christ. Peter learned that in a simple lesson that Jesus taught him. He wanted to be able to walk on the water. He got out of the boat and began to do it. As long as his eyes were on Jesus he was fine. When he looked down at the water he sunk. We as Jesus' followers need to do the same - keep our eyes on Him and Him alone. (OK I'm off the pulpit!) :)

mugsy
04-28-2003, 09:30 AM
I was raised Catholic and while I was disgusted by what happened, I also felt that some of those guys were getting a bum rap from kids who, for one reason or another, had it in for them. The guilty ones will have to answer to a Higher Being and it's not up to us to sit in judgement of the entire Church because of a few. Now, that being said, I think that the Church handled it badly and the Pope pretty much stuck his head in the sand. But I will remain Catholic and celebrate what the Church is all about, steeped in tradition with a message to put out.

4 Dog Mother
04-28-2003, 11:24 AM
However, my feeling is that with Catholicism being as organised as it is, you're going to get a lot of press coverage connecting the cases. But since other denominations (who also practice in child sexual abuse) are not as organised and connected, the coverage/information is not broadcasted like these scandals have been.

I fully understand what you are saying here soledad and definitely agree. It is much easier to follow the moves a priest makes because of the way the church is set up than with other ministers who can move from state to state and not have their past followed as closely.


I was raised Catholic and while I was disgusted by what happened, I also felt that some of those guys were getting a bum rap from kids who, for one reason or another, had it in for them.

I also agree with Mugsy on this one. I worked as a secretary for a Catholic Parish for 16 years and I know personally of a case where a young man is falsely accusing a priest of abuse. This young man gave into temptation when he was 19 and while the priest involved was inappropriate, you cannot call a man who is involved in this type of case a pedophile. Because the diocese would not deal with it as a child abuse case, the young man's story has changed in the last 6 months that the touching started when he was 16 with the actual abuse happening when he was 19.

Having worked in a parish that has 3 priests in residence at a time and often a seminarian too, I have worked with many type of priests. They are men with all the flaws we all have. Some are good, some are not. A couple of them are the closest friends I have - that I can share anything with and not be judged. It is so easy to blame the church when one man hurts you. I know from personal experience because after working for the church for 16 years a pastor that we have had only two years decided to eliminate my job without any true reason other than to save money so our parish could build the largest church with the finest materials in the diocese. For a while, I thought about leaving the church and it is still almost impossible to be at a mass where he is celebrating. But because our priests to keep a schedule and we have 6 Masses a weekend at our churches, we can work it out that I don't have to have him at a Mass. Or we can go out of town to a Mass.

As far as how the Church as a whole has handled it, it is a shame that so much was covered up. And yet I think we also have to think about how sexual abuse within families, within other organizations was handled, 20, 30, 40 years ago. It wasn't talked about, it was covered up by family members, sometimes even the victum was blamed for its happening. It was wrong no doubt about it but society did not know how to handle such things back then. I don't think even today most people do not realize that pedophiles can not be rehabilitated. They must be kept away from young children. It is like drink to an alcoholic, etc. etc. The temptation, the draw is too great.

We must protect our children and keep these people away from our children but it is up to God to judge them. If a member of our family killed or abused someone we would not want others to avoid us or question whether we would do the same. Don't judge all priests by the sins of some. Give them all a chance.

marysmerrycats
04-28-2003, 11:25 AM
Pam
its not what was done, but the churches reaction to it that I am upset by.well of course I don't like what they did, but they are sick mentally..


yes I did post about this before, just thought of it again yesterday since I was at the church. (shame on me for not going every week)
anyway, thanks everyone for your thoughts, I was curious... but I am not so determind to stay in the catholic church anymore. now I don't mean I am going to go convert to another religion, but I will try other churches. I just can't forget their reaction as easily as some.

primabella
04-28-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by lut
I usually don't reply to threads about religion. But I wanna make an exeption here.
I am a Roman Catholic, because I believe in the Bible and Jesus; so just because of some bad priests are making a mess of it,my beliefs don't change. The base hasn't change, it was some people who were handling it badly! So ignore the mess; if you're believings are true, you will not quit.

Agreed!

Our priests are so boring! (only one of their faults.) I just don't go to church anymore, but my brother is taking catechism classes for his conformation and my mom always says how the church is getting greedy with the money and so on. I don't know much about the church and I don't really care. I would rather be at home and say my prayer at night then drag myself and listen to the lectures that don't really affect me.

lizbud
04-28-2003, 04:26 PM
Prima,

It's confirmation (to confirm one's faith in the religious principles
of the church) , once a child reaches the age of reason. It's too
bad that the services at the church you spoke of don't do
enough to make it relevant to your age group. I fell asleep at
my confirmation. It was held during the evening hours & had to
be awakened for the ceremony, after a long, long sermon.:o
My family never let me forget it either.:rolleyes:

momoffuzzyfaces
04-28-2003, 04:52 PM
I was a Presbyterian then a Baptist. Now I'm just a Christian. I think some people (and the media especially) take great delight in pointing out when any religion slips. They love to point out the mistakes. If they would spend even half the time pointing out the good done by the churches, the world would be a much better place and lots happier too. Alas, good news doesn't bring in the ratings that bad news does. They seem to think because Jesus was perfect, all his followers should be. They have the opinion that Christians think they are better than the rest of humanity and love to take us down a peg. They can't grasp that we are only made perfect through Jesus not because of what we do. When faced with perfection, they murdered Him. OOPS, I'd better get off my pulpet too! :eek: :D

primabella
04-28-2003, 05:13 PM
I know what conformation, I was conformed when I was about 12. :) I really wish they made it more interesting. We once has this priest who was really good, very funny and was playing some magic tracks at the beginning to get the kids into it. The tricks taught values. I miss him, I don't know what happened to him.

RICHARD
04-28-2003, 05:27 PM
you people????????



all religions have their share of chowderheads...

it's not ALL the media's fault....
if some of the 'elders' in each religion took a stand and
came out against people IN THEIR OWN RELIGION that were
causing problems, the world would be a better place.


seeing homicide bombers given religious validation is a problem that we, as outsiders, cannot understand.......

instead of standing up and condemning the stupidity, violence and crime against the innocent, the hezzbollah, hamas, plo,
islamic jihad continue, with the leaders of their countries looking the other way, with their attacks.

for the record...
Iran has been sending people into Iraq to stir things up....
they are looking for the population to rise up and make
the next government to become a government like Iran has...

when you get painted with the same brush as the knuckleheads
who have hijacked your religion you either wash off the paint,
or just stand there and wait for the next coat.

don't blame the rest of the world if you don't like to be painted, the color or the smell of the paint.....do something to change the situation.

momoffuzzyfaces
04-28-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by popcornbird
Maybe when you people see the media falsely bashing Islam, you should think the same way. ;)


I do, that's why I said 'any religion'.

babolaypo65
04-28-2003, 08:11 PM
Prima:
I think what Lizbud was pointing out was your spelling. ConFORmation means to bring something into alignment, or into a single way of being. to CONFORM. (like when dogs compete in conformation, they are being judged at how well they compare to a set way of being.)

conFIRmation is the process by which you CONFIRM your faith. (or beliefs, or otherwise make a knowledgeable pledge). Normally I think most people here don't worry about spelling, however in this case the spelling "error" (unless thats what you were going for) has an ironic, and somewhat loaded interpretation.
One that could be used to poke fun at, or diss the Catholic chuch and its members.

I think she was just clarifying the spelling for you.


Originally posted by primabella
I know what conformation, I was conformed when I was about 12. :) I really wish they made it more interesting. We once has this priest who was really good, very funny and was playing some magic tracks at the beginning to get the kids into it. The tricks taught values. I miss him, I don't know what happened to him.

lizbud
04-28-2003, 08:38 PM
babolaypo65,

The irony wasn't lost on me. I realised it the minute I typed
the two words. :D :D :D

I did want to make the distinction for those who know nothing
about the Catholic church. Thanks.

babolaypo65
04-28-2003, 08:46 PM
Yep, I figured the irony wasn't lost on you Lizbud. It reminds me of one my own spelling/listening errors growing up. I always thought the church nearby was called "Cavalry" Church.... but couldn't quite make the name work for me....
:D

lizbud
04-28-2003, 10:00 PM
My favorite listening error as a child was in the Christmas
hymn O Come All Ye Faithful;

O Come All Ye Faithful

O come, all ye faithful,
Joyful and triumphant,
O come ye, O come ye to Bethlehem.
Come and behold Him,
Born the King of Angels!
O come, let us adore Him,
O come, let us adore Him,
O come, let us adore Him,
Christ the Lord.

I remember singing the chorus at the top of my lungs as,

" O come let us side door him" :rolleyes:

Soledad
04-28-2003, 10:06 PM
HA!!!:D :)

marysmerrycats
04-28-2003, 11:44 PM
popcornbird

"you people"?
I don't think you would like it if someone said that to you,.would you?
I remember asking you a few months ago, and you said there was not too much of a problem, now you seem to be saying the opposite, that you are isolated and made to feel inferior?
I am not you so of course I do not know, but I would imagine there are idiots that make you feel bad because of who you are, and that's terrible! you can thank osama for that.

oh and now you know why this was moved to this section. :eek:

RICHARD
04-29-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by lizbud


" O come let us side door him" :rolleyes:


what's the matter with the front door????:D

lizbud
04-29-2003, 02:51 PM
Richard,

Believe it or not, that's pretty much what I asked my Mother
when I was a child. We lived in a big old fashioned house with
front,back and a side door which led out to a flower garden.
So the "side door" thing made perfect sense to my childish mind.
But, one time I asked why we had to go to the side vs front door
to visit the baby Jesus, I discovered my "hearing error".We all
had a good laugh about it when I was older. :D :D

RICHARD
04-29-2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by lizbud
Richard,

Believe it or not, that's pretty much what I asked my Mother
when I was a child. We lived in a big old fashioned house with
front,back and a side door which led out to a flower garden.
So the "side door" thing made perfect sense to my childish mind.
But, one time I asked why we had to go to the side vs front door
to visit the baby Jesus, I discovered my "hearing error".We all
had a good laugh about it when I was older. :D :D




i guess i still think like a kid.......;)

too funny!!!

primabella
04-29-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
Prima:
I think what Lizbud was pointing out was your spelling. ConFORmation means to bring something into alignment, or into a single way of being. to CONFORM. (like when dogs compete in conformation, they are being judged at how well they compare to a set way of being.)

conFIRmation is the process by which you CONFIRM your faith. (or beliefs, or otherwise make a knowledgeable pledge). Normally I think most people here don't worry about spelling, however in this case the spelling "error" (unless thats what you were going for) has an ironic, and somewhat loaded interpretation.
One that could be used to poke fun at, or diss the Catholic chuch and its members.

I think she was just clarifying the spelling for you.

Oh whoops! :o:o:o:o Sorry Liz heeheehee I didn't even notice it :rolleyes: Thanks for pointing that out babolaypo :)

carole
04-29-2003, 09:11 PM
I have not had time to read all the comments, but my sister and i are both married to NON-PRACTISING CATHOLICS need i say any more, as for religion oh dont get me started plz.......:) ;)