what is w/ people and vets

[cali]

ok I dont mean to start anything. but what is w/ people people and their fixation with vets???? beleive it or not vets are NOT knoligable with small animals. a few specilize in them but still I really dont see the point. you dont take a small animals everywhere with you like you would a dog so when you take a critter to the vet when it is sick that is EXTREMLY stressful. not too mention surgery on small animals is really dangerous. I saw a vet who did surgy on a gerbils tail when the end came off! that is the most stuped thing I have ever seen, gerbils tails heal on their own as to ther limbs. their is no reason to take say a gerbil to a vet or a mouse or whatever, because they dont need it. if you do your research first, and get the info from an expert of that animal then you got it made. it just makes me sooooooo mad when the aswer for every little thing is the vet! I have had gerbils for years I have experienced many problems an dI advise people of what to do and what the problem is but I am treated like an idiot because I am not a vet. an dof coarse the vet does not have a clue and gives falty info :mad: sorry for the rant again this is not directed at anyone or meant to start any wars. I am just ranting

[aly]

There are some vets who specialize in small animals and I would take my pet there (if I had a small animal). I think everyone should research vets *before* getting an animal. I am sure there are times when its better to just not take a small animal to the vet, but I believe there are some times when you have to.

[primabella]

If it is something serious, then you should obviously take the pet to the vet, but if it's something little, you don't need to. I don't know much about hamsters or gerbils or whatever, but I'm assuming whoever has one, does. They should know the time to take their pet to the vet and how serious something can be. I understand why you may be angry.

[tikeyas_mom]

My gerbil has a inner ear infection. He HAD to go to a vet asap or he would die.

[Songlover]

I hope you will forgive me for giving my two cents worth, but sometimes the services of a Vet ARE VERY NECESSARY and can literally mean the difference between life and death for any animal that we love and care deeply about! :( :mad: :confused:

Personally, I think that it our obiligation to take our animals to a VET when a problem arises that we cannot fix ourselves.

It is necessary to research this, as we would any other subject that is of importance. There are vets who specialize in small mammals, birds, exoctic pets and reptiles and I feel that they are serving a real need in the animal kingdom. I agree that we should not take our animals to the VET for every little thing, but when there is something that requires attention, then it is our responsibility to make sure that we get help for our little friend. It is kind of like taking a baby to the doctor when we cannot figure out what it wrong. We do not hesiate to do that for innocent babies. I feel that we should not hesitate to do the same thing for innocent animals who also cannot speak for themselves...just my humble opinion over here in Montreal.:) :) :)

[cali]

I was not directing the post at you or sage tikeyas_mom, I used gerbils as an example cuz they are the critter I know the most about. sage had nothing to do with it. in fact I had been wondering about that for a ong time long before I ever found this board.

primbella: yes if it was really serius I supoose you could take them to the vet. I personally would not though, I want my animals to be comfy and under my care. not in some strange place where I can not be sure of anything:)

[Desert Arabian]

I take my rats to a vet who specializes in small animals, and she is extremely knowledgeable about small animals...a least as far as rats. I had my two rats neutered, and there were no complications. I am extremely greatful for my vet, because they helped cure Nugget, Sweet Pea, and Peanut's pneumonia, which would have most likely killed them if they didn't get treated.

IMO, I think it is cruel and inhumane to not take your pet to get professional help when they need it. I hate reading stories/hearing stories of suffering/ill animals not getting professional help. That is my opinion.

[tikeyas_mom]

agreed.

[veegan]

"IMO, I think it is cruel and inhumane to not take your pet to get professional help when they need it."

I agree! I think it is awesome there are more vets who specialize in small animals! The more popular they become, the better and more advanced the procedures and medicine becomes, therefore making it safer! Heck, I know there are even vets who specilize in fish! And I know there are people who do surgery on fish too. And as Songlover said, I too believe they are a valuable service to our society & pets! I dont understand why you're mad about people taking their pets to a vet.. just because they are small animals?? :confused: It sounds like you think just because they are small, they arent worth treating... Just the impression you gave me! :O And about the tail.. sure it may heal on its own, but so would any wound on any other animal. However! I can only imagine how painful that would be! I dont know about you, but Id rather my pet's wound be treated than it suffer in pain while it heals, or risk infection. No matter if its a little gerbil or my cat. You may think, well what about in the wild? When they get injuries, they have to suffer while it heals, and that may be true, but it is my personal belief that our pets were brought into this world by us breeding them, and therefore it is our responsibility to give them the best care possible while they are in our care. Anyhoo.. just my opinion :)

[Desert Arabian]

Oh yes, one other thing, I do try and bring my rats with me everywhere I go. They are just like dogs, with a few exceptions, lol. :)

[popcornbird]

I don't know how vets are with small animals, but birds go to avian vets, who specialize in birds. They are great!

[zookeeperinaltha]

I had a guinea pig that went everywhere with me except to work, Gizmo was a special pig, not to just me but everyone who met him. He used to squeel at me when I would come in from work and one day he just layed in the bottom of his cage, (he had his freedom...came and went as he pleased) I knew something was wrong so I took him to an exotic pet vet. The vet put him in an oxygen tent and told me he had an resp. infection and wouldn't make it. Well I began to cry (my husband was upset as well) Gizmo died, (but like I said this was a special pig) the vet gave him a shot of adenalyn to his heart and brought him back. I had $5.00 in my pocket and told the vet I would do anything to pay this bill it meant that much to me! The vet just smiled and said $2.50 is all you owe me. Gizmo has since left but I had some more really good times with him. I was very glad I took him to the vet. This was in Oak Park Il. Sometimes you just need to use your judgement. Vets are needed regardless of how small, or the small amount the pet may have cost. But you shouldn't run for every little thing, it waste the vets time and (makes him more wealthy) you can care for the problem yourself with a little common sence!

[veegan]

"Oh yes, one other thing, I do try and bring my rats with me everywhere I go. They are just like dogs, with a few exceptions, lol."

that reminds me, I have a friend who takes her rat with her everywhere she can too. She goes on walks with her, takes her to the store with her, etc. Its too cute. :)

And yeah, I know there are a lot of vets who specialize in rabbits too.

[CathyBogart]

If one of my rats has a respiratory infection, I'm going straight off to the vet for a bottle of Baytril. Yes there are home solutions but I trust Baytril more. I have found two excellent, knowledgeable vets in my area. One of them also sees my reptiles! In my opinion, every small animal should be seen at least annually by a vet, because the vet may spot something you hadn't seen.

Believe it or not, many vets ARE very knowledgeable in the small animal field. If the main vet I go to doesn't know something I will call the other one. Between the two I have everything covered. It frustratesme that you say you wouldn't even take your small animals to the vet for something serious. What if one of them needed a tumor removed? A limb amputated? Euthanasia? Surely you wouldn't try to do something like that yourself....



A side note that I know is inappropriate but I can't help but bring up... You complain about not being taken seriously, but your posts are not written very well. There is a distinct lack of capitalization, and your spelling and grammar are not great. I know I'm coming off as insulting and I'm not trying to. It's just that if someone sent me an email with advice about my animals and it looked like something my little brother had written I would have a very hard time taking it seriously. Again, I apologize for coming off as rude/insulting....

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by veegan
I dont understand why you're mad about people taking their pets to a vet.. just because they are small animals?? :confused: It sounds like you think just because they are small, they arent worth treating... Just the impression you gave me! :O And about the tail.. sure it may heal on its own, but so would any wound on any other animal. However! I can only imagine how painful that would be! I dont know about you, but Id rather my pet's wound be treated than it suffer in pain while it heals, or risk infection. No matter if its a little gerbil or my cat. You may think, well what about in the wild? When they get injuries, they have to suffer while it heals, and that may be true, but it is my personal belief that our pets were brought into this world by us breeding them, and therefore it is our responsibility to give them the best care possible while they are in our care. Anyhoo.. just my opinion :)

Well-said Veegan!!

I don't have any small animals as pets, but if I *did* they'd be just like any other pet....whether mouse, dog, or horse, lol....you have the pet, you are responsible for it's ultimate care, including the vet. You wouldn't have a child then not take it to the doctor would you? :confused:

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by Veggan
....but it is my personal belief that our pets were brought into this world by us breeding them, and therefore it is our responsibility to give them the best care possible while they are in our care. Anyhoo.. just my opinion

Veggan, you are so right, I totally agree.

I feel that anyone who can't/won't provide necessary vet care for their pet, should not be allowed to own animals.

[Jessica12345]

veegan you are so right.... very well said!

;)

[cali]

And about the tail.. sure it may heal on its own, but so would any wound on any other animal. However! I can only imagine how painful that would be! I dont know about you, but Id rather my pet's wound be treated than it suffer in pain while it heals

but thats just it the gerbil would NOT be in pain. the end of a gerbils tail is supossed to come off, it is a defence mechanism, just like a iguanas tail comes off so does a gerbils, that is why I had the problem with it.

and I dont think that they dont deserve to go the vet just because they are small. my dogs rarly go to the vet, I have not been to the docter since I was really young. my critters have never been to the vet. every single one of them has lived long healthy lives. my gerbils have lived to be 6 years old and one that I gave to a friend from the first litter just died last summer, she was 8 years old. her gerbil did not go to the vet either. we simpley do a bunch of research and care for the problem ourselves.

fo those that are able to take their critters everywhere? that great! I am glad you are able to do that, so if you felt they needed a vet they would not be really stressed about it.

I am problibly made because I know what vets are like around here. their are zippo exotics vets, or reptile vets or bird vets. I would never take ANYTHING for an annual vet visit not even people. my dogs dont go, I dont go and my critters dont go. I prefer that if an animal is going to die, that is die in the comfort of its home. and if and animal is sick I think they will get better faster if they are not in some starnge place they have never seen before and no comfort of their "parents". guess what a gerbil of mine broke her back a while ago, I gave her extra loves and made sure she was cozy in her HOME and guess what? she got better. she has since passed on of old age(6 years old) a vet would have put her down I bet. I dont trust vets or any doctors for that matter. JMHO :)

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by Cali
I would never take ANYTHING for an annual vet visit not even people. my dogs dont go, I dont go and my critters dont go.

I might have this wrong but surely, you take your dogs for yearly booster vaccinations.:(

[cali]

nope we dont beleive in shots. its not good for them. they get a parvo shot as a puppy and that is it. unless we are travaling out of the the country or something wich does not happen. but nope no shots for my babies, it ruined one dog(litterally) we are not taking any chances. my mom is apart of a mailing list called "just say no to vax" and I agree with it to.

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by cali
nope we dont beleive in shots. its not good for them. they get a parvo shot as a puppy and that is it. unless we are travaling out of the the country or something wich does not happen. but nope no shots for my babies, it ruined one dog(litterally) we are not taking any chances. my mom is apart of a mailing list called "just say no to vax" and I agree with it to.

Well I certainly hope you don't get any of your dogs near other dogs. I don't know how it is where you are, bu the rabies vaccine is required by law here.

How did it "ruin" your dog?

[cali]

here their are no vaccins required by law. our vet(holistic) does not recomend vaccines either. its the rabis vaccin that ruined my dog. she was a very happy dog(hence the name "happy") she loved everyone went to greet people and other dogs happily. she gets her Rabies shot. she freaks out at the sight of a person or dog, it took her nearly 2 years to learn to trust my best friend again, who she has known since I got her. she quivers with fear at anything and everything. either that or she lashes out in fear. her breeder had done lotes of socialization with the pups to make sure they would not grow up to be chickens. happy was well soclaized and everything, she gets her rabies shot and boom she is a different dog.

oh and my dogs are around other dogs all the time, nearly every day, at the park or flyball or obedience classes, on walks they get top play with the naighbors dogs ect....:p

[aly]

*faints*

You take your dogs around that many other dogs and they never get vaccines????????????????

They aren't on heartworm preventative or flea/tick preventative?

They don't get bordatella vaccine?

You would be denied in about 30 seconds flat at both shelters I work at. Animals NEED yearly check ups. You are very lucky you don't have a bunch of dead animals on your hands.

[aly]

I can't BELIEVE an obedience class would let you in without a vet record. I assist with obedience at two different places and they both require vaccinations to be up to date. The agility and pet therapy groups require the same.

I am sure there is more to the story about the vaccination that "ruined" your dog. I find it difficult to believe one shot took a dog 2 years to get over.

[wolfsoul]

I'm going to agree with everyone here. I believe that they should be taken to the vet when they need it, but there is always a limit. When you say that your animal has been a little down, and people start screaming for you to take it to a vet, than I would think that's a little too much. Leave it for a day, see if it's happy in the morning. :) That doesn't apply to serious things though.

We don't have a vet that specializes in rats :( We have one place that specializes in exotic pets in general, but rats aren't their specialty :rolleyes:

[veegan]

well, my family has never gone on yearly checkups, and our pets havent either, but my dad's a vet. so yeah, I guess I dont really count. lol

and crap I cant remember where I heard/read this.. but I read an article recently about a study this vet has been doing for MANY years about the effectivness/necessity of vaccines. basically he believed that in general vaccines are over used, but there are some that definately should be done. and I think it said his findings are being well recieved and a lot of vets are also practicingthis way. I will go look for the article.. Im sure Im probably getting some of this info wrong. lol

as for the tail thing, sorry I probably sounded ignorant lol cause I know nothing about gerbils, but the tail thing was just an example really. if it had a serious cut in its side, or A BROKEN BACK I would either take it to the vet to be looked at/fixed, or if there was nothing we could do, maybe consider having it euthanized because I cant even imagine how extremely painful that would be! although I wonder, are you sure it broke its back? i mean, wouldnt it be paralyzed?? :confused: And I still dont understand why youre so angry about someone taking their gerbil to have its tail sutured.. I mean that person obviously cares about their pet, so whats the big deal? Maybe they were afraid of infection.

------
heres the article!:
Annual Dog Vaccines May Be Unnecessary
Study: Overvaccination May Jeopardize Dog's Health
POSTED: 4:28 p.m. EST March 17, 2003

Once a year, Ronald Schultz checks the antibody levels in his dogs'blood. Why? He says for proof that most annual vaccines are unnecessary. Schultz, professor of pathobiological sciences at the University of Wisconsin-Madison School of Veterinary Medicine, has been studying the effectiveness of canine vaccines since the 1970s; he's learned that immunity can last as long as a dog's lifetime, which suggests that our "best friends" are being overvaccinated.

Based on his findings, a community of canine vaccine experts has developed new veterinary recommendations that could eliminate a dog's need for annual shots. The guidelines appear in the March/April issue of Trends, the journal of the American Animal Hospital Association. Every year, when we take our dogs to the veterinarian's office, they could receive up to 16 different vaccines, many of which are combined into a single shot. Four of these products protect against life-threatening diseases, including rabies, canine parvovirus type 2, canine distemper virus and canine adenovirus type 2; the rest protect against milder diseases to which only some dogs are exposed, including Lyme disease. But, as many veterinarians are realizing, overvaccination can actually jeopardize a dog's health. Side effects can cause skin problems, allergic reactions and autoimmune disease. And in cats, tumors have been reported at the site of vaccine injections. "These adverse reactions have caused many veterinarians to rethink the issue of vaccination," Schultz said. "The idea that unnecessary vaccines can cause serious side effects is in direct conflict with sound medical practices." For 30 years, Schultz has been examining the need to vaccinate animals so often and for so many diseases. "In the 1970s, I started thinking about our immune response to pathogens and how similar it is in other animals," Schultz said. "That's when I started to question veterinary vaccination practices." Just like ours, a canine's immune system fires up when a pathogen, like a virus, enters the body. The pathogen releases a protein called an antigen, which calls into action the immune system's special disease-fighting cells. These cells not only destroy the virus, but they remember what it looked like so they can fend it off in the future. It's this immunological memory that enables vaccines, which purposely contain live, weakened or dead pathogens, to protect against future disease.

But, as Schultz points out, vaccines can keep people immune for a lifetime: We're usually inoculated for measles, mumps and rubella as children but never as adults. So, can dogs be vaccinated as pups and then never again?

While evidence from Schultz's studies on both his own dogs and many other dogs from controlled studies suggests the answer is yes, Schultz recommends a more conservative plan based on duration of immunity and individual risk. Schultz said that core vaccines, or the ones that protect against life-threatening disease, are essential for all dogs, yet he does not recommend dogs receive these shots yearly. He said that, with the exception of the rabies vaccine, they should last at least seven years. Rabies shots, on the other hand, have shown to last about three years. For these reasons, Schultz suggests that dogs receive rabies shots every three years (as is required by law in most states) and the other core vaccines no more frequently than every three years. Some less serious vaccines, on the other hand, have a much shorter duration of immunity, lasting around one year. But, as Schultz points out, not every dog should get these types of vaccines, because not every dog is at risk for exposure. Today, many vaccinated dogs receive a shot for Lyme disease. But Schultz said that the ticks carrying the Lyme disease pathogen can be found in only a few regions of the United States. "The vaccine can cause adverse effects such as mild arthritis, allergy or other immune diseases. Like all vaccines, it should only be used when the animal is at significant risk," he said. Another common vaccine that Schultz says is unnecessary protects against "kennel cough," an often mild and transient disease contracted during boarding or dog shows. "Most pet dogs that do not live in breeding kennels, are not boarded, do not go to dog shows and have only occasional contact with dogs outside their immediate family, rarely need to be vaccinated or revaccinated for kennel cough," he said. Schultz said it's important for veterinarians to recognize an individual dog's risk for developing a particular disease when considering the benefits of a vaccine. Giving a vaccine that's not needed creates an unnecessary risk to the animal, he said. Schultz admitted that recommending that dogs receive fewer vaccines may spark controversy, especially since many veterinarians rely on annual vaccines to bring in clients, along with income. But annual visits are important for many reasons other than shots. "Checking for heartworm, tumors, dermatological problems and tooth decay should be done on a yearly basis," he said. "Plus, some dogs, depending on their risk, may need certain vaccines annually." Rather than vaccinating on each visit, veterinarians can use a recently developed test that checks dogs' immunity against certain diseases. Schultz said veterinarians who have switched to the three-year, instead of annual, vaccination program have found no increase in the number of dogs with vaccine-preventable diseases. "Every day, more and more people in the profession are embracing the change," Schultz said. The new vaccination guidelines are supported by the AAHA, along with the task force members representing the American Colleges of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Veterinary Microbiology and the American Association of Veterinary Immunologists.

[cali]

well if something is truly serious of coarse we would take them to the vet. a holistic vet that is, never again will we take our dogs to a allopathic vet. and the classes are run by th eoriginal memebers of our dogs club. I am one of them, so we are not checked:p and no flea or tick preventions or heartworm, we dont need it. kibble fed dogs need it BARF fed do not. vaccins are a allopathic prevention. exposure is a holistic prevention. we do things holisticly. if you have a problem with holistic ways deal with it. no shots? that is out vets advice she has been a holistic vet for 15 years, she has many awards, and does lectures all over the place. her dogs ar ethe same as our, they ar evet BARF diet, and receive only a killed parvo shot as a puppy.

and aly happy is still not over that rabies shot, she is getting better but she got that shot 3 years ago now. and yes it was just one minut she is happy go lucky lovin everyone and everything type of dag she gets her Rabies shot and bang she is a different dog. and by the way happys reaction is not that uncommen. and why why is the world would they get a bordatella vaccine when they are not being put in a kennel????


You are very lucky you don't have a bunch of dead animals on your hands.
all my animals are in perfect health. they had titers done and they all have amazing immunity:) health coats never had heartworm or fleas or ticks, or any sickness for that matter;)

[JGuitaristR]

Well, make sure not to go to the hospital when one of your limbs gets chopped off, afterall, it's nothing life-threatening. People like you annoy me. It's still a living thing, it needs to be cared for.

[cali]

ok who said anything about life threatning???? I said if the problem is truly serious. as in if the animal got hit by a car of were in a huge fight, or something THEN they would go to the vet. my mom brok her arm and was in a car accendent nmeither time did she even get checked out by the way

[Jessica12345]

Originally posted by cali
my mom brok her arm and was in a car accendent nmeither time did she even get checked out by the way

not to be taken the wrong way but i would rather have my arm fixed than walk around in pain. so that is what i would do with my animals. they deserve to be treated like us.

[popcornbird]

With the exception of dogs, I don't think its neccessary for other pets to go to the vet EVERY year for a check up unless its neccessary. I do take my birds to the vet, but not often. Only when I feel its neccessary. They have an excellent avian vet who mainly treats pet birds and he really knows what he's doing. He is VERY gentle and kind with them. When I am concerned about something, I prefer to call the vet first before rushing there. I myself haven't been to the doctor since I was like 8 or 9, but I care about my pets more than myself. :p When they have to go, they have to go. I just don't like taking them to the vet ALL the time like some people, for every little thing. Only when they need to go. :) Animals, like humans deserve medical care when needed. It just shouldn't be over-done.

[Desert Arabian]

:( This thread makes me so sad!


A new puppy should be taken to a veterinarian soon after adoption for a thorough physical examination and to ensure that it is current on vaccinations. All puppies need a series of immunizations to protect them against distemper, a viral disease that causes respiratory symptoms and can affect the nervous system; leptospirosis, a bacterial disease that damages the liver; hepatitis, a viral disease that also targets the liver; parvovirus, which harms the intestinal tract; and parainfluenza, which causes respiratory problems. Immunizations for these five diseases are usually administered in one vaccination. Dogs also need rabies shots to protect them from this virus, which is transmitted in the saliva by the bite of an infected animal and attacks the nervous system. Some owners opt for additional vaccinations against Lyme disease, a bacterial infection that is transmitted by parasitic deer ticks; kennel cough, a respiratory disease caused by the bordatella bacteria; and coronavirus, which targets the intestinal tract.

Vaccines for Dogs (http://www.randolphanimal.com/VaccinesForDogs.htm)
Another good site which you should read (http://petcare.umn.edu/JrSci/Vaccinations.htm)

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by cali

and aly happy is still not over that rabies shot, she is getting better but she got that shot 3 years ago now. and yes it was just one minut she is happy go lucky lovin everyone and everything type of dag she gets her Rabies shot and bang she is a different dog. and by the way happys reaction is not that uncommen.


How old was Happy when she received the Rabies vaccine? No offense, but I have a really hard time believing that one shot could cause that. You say it's "not that uncommon"...I'd like to hear some research on this, as I've never heard of that happening.

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by cali
and no flea or tick preventions or heartworm, we dont need it. kibble fed dogs need it BARF fed do not.

I'm also curious on how feeding a BARF diet can prevent heartworms....which are transfered by mosquitos. :confused:

[RubyMutt]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
:( This thread makes me so sad!

Me too :( If my pets showed the slightest bit of illness I'm on the phone w/ my vet. They work wonders! My past dog had cancer and I cannot imagine just letting her sit there and die without any professional help!! :mad:

[tikeyas_mom]

yes you have that obligation to do whats right for your pets and I hope every one here does it for theirs.

[sammi]

:( This is a sad post - animals not going to the doctor - people not going to the doctor:(

[Jessica12345]

what could happen if you bring them to the vet? i dont see why not. if they had some illness you couldnt see, you might even save there lives!:(

[marysmerrycats]

With the exception of dogs, I don't think its neccessary for other pets to go to the vet EVERY year for a check up unless its neccessary.

popcornbird, don't forget about kitty cats! they need yearly vet visits!:) :)

[CathyBogart]

Ihave been surprised at what I have found out on my annual visits with my herps/small animals. My rabbit had a mass remved that I hadn't known about because my VET found it. It was cancerous, but because we caught it so early it didn't spread. I was also able to treat a lizard for coccidia because of my annual vet visit. Had I waited until symptoms had manifested, it would most likely have been too late.

[wolfsoul]

I believe that every pet has the right to be taken to a vet. Sometimes it's not needed, and that's fine, but it's nice to get a checkup every once in a while. Even if my pet isn't sick, it's nice to take it to the vet and get compliments on how well it's been taken care of :p

[CathyBogart]

That's always good too! I took my mousie Jess to the vet because I thought he might be losig some fur around his eyes. The vet said he looked good and gushed about how Jess had the healthiest looking coat he had ever seen on a mouse! I felt sooo good!