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View Full Version : Thousands rally at Ground Zero in support of war



Sara luvs her Tinky
04-10-2003, 07:42 PM
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/iraq/0403/images/groundzero0410.jpg
Workers hold American flags in support of the U.S. military efforts in Iraq Thursday during a rally near the World Trade Center site in New York.



NEW YORK -- Thousands of construction workers and firefighters packed a noontime rally at ground zero Thursday in support of the war in Iraq which, to many of them, began right there on Sept. 11, 2001.

The rally stretched for several blocks north from the World Trade Center site. Carpenters, electricians and firefighters carried American flags and homemade signs and chanted "USA! USA!"

Police and organizers estimated the crowd at more than 15,000. The rally was sponsored by the Building & Construction Trades Council of Greater New York.

Many speakers and participants described the war as a natural outcome of the World Trade Center attack, drawing little distinction between the terrorist group al-Qaida and Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

"The war started right here on Sept. 11, 2001," Gov. George Pataki said.

Fire Lt. Kenny O'Brien, whose Harlem firehouse lost two members in the attack, agreed. "This is the most appropriate spot in the world to make this statement," he said.

Like many in the crowd, carpenter Jimmy Nolan said he saw the rally as a counterpoint to anti-war demonstrations that have drawn hundreds of thousands to the city's streets and parks.

"We got tired of those protesters always arguing against the war," he said. He said he spent 11 months excavating the trade center site and repairing shattered windows in surrounding buildings.

A sea of hard hats and red-white-and-blue bandanas stretched along West Street from the trade center site.

"There's more people here than in my home state of Kansas," former Republican Sen. Bob Dole said.

Many in the crowd were veterans or relatives of service members on duty in Iraq. Some carried pictures of their family members in uniform. Others carried military banners.

"I was in Vietnam, and we never had support like this," sheet metal worker Jim Pruitt said.

Logan
04-10-2003, 08:51 PM
I had not heard about that Sara. Thank you for sharing. :)

Sara luvs her Tinky
04-10-2003, 08:52 PM
:)

jackiesdaisy1935
04-10-2003, 10:23 PM
I had not heard of that today either, it must have been quite a sight, thanks for sharing, I enjoyed reading your post.
Jackie, Perry and Miss Daisy

sammi
04-10-2003, 10:58 PM
:) Thank you for posting that!

yorkster
04-11-2003, 02:17 AM
That was great!
Thanks for posting it :)

lovemyshiba
04-11-2003, 07:26 AM
thanks for sharing--I hadn't heard about that--I bet it was quite a sight!!

Dakota's Mommy
04-11-2003, 02:05 PM
Thanks for posting! I had not heard that!

mugsy
04-11-2003, 05:55 PM
Very cool!

Soledad
04-12-2003, 05:38 AM
Perhaps it would have been a better story if anyone could have given a good reason why this war and 9-11 are linked. :rolleyes:

mugsy
04-12-2003, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Soledad
Perhaps it would have been a better story if anyone could have given a good reason why this war and 9-11 are linked. :rolleyes:

:mad: :rolleyes: Can't just let it be positive. Just HAVE to make it nasty. :rolleyes:

babolaypo65
04-12-2003, 08:39 AM
I had previously not replied to this post because I was wondering about what Soledad recently brought up. I had hoped we (the U.S.) would not bring 9-11 into either protests or support rallies for this war.
I think the rally undermines the U.S. efforts, personally.

I don't intend for this to be a slam, or to "bring down" the thread. Just mentioning that I had a similar...reaction... to the story.
My apologies in advance for any offense.

mugsy
04-12-2003, 09:32 AM
No offense taken from me.

Just a note, that intelligence sources have found that Saddam Hussein helped finance and train the 911 hijackers.

iceyshiver21
04-12-2003, 10:50 AM
sticking to the true message of the post- I think that it is great to see something other than anti-war protests.....I never that of a support rally....Amanda(weiner_teddy) and I are making support troops signs.

babolaypo65
04-12-2003, 12:07 PM
Thanks.
I've wondered about the Hussein/9-11 link, because i had *heard* about the intelligence sources. But Bush does not mention it in any of his war pep talks, or briefings.
Do you know of a reputable source where I could read something about it?


Originally posted by mugsy
No offense taken from me.

Just a note, that intelligence sources have found that Saddam Hussein helped finance and train the 911 hijackers.

Soledad
04-13-2003, 05:19 AM
I was not being nasty. Just raising a point.

And I have not heard of an actual link. Just conjecture. It's not enough to say "there are intelligence sources." There has to be something called proof.

Pam
04-13-2003, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by mugsy
:mad: :rolleyes: Can't just let it be positive. Just HAVE to make it nasty. :rolleyes:

My thoughts exactly Mugsy. :rolleyes:

mugsy
04-13-2003, 08:20 AM
I'm so sorry, believe it or not, there is actually news that can be gotten somewhere other than the internet on which you so heavily rely. I heard that on various news stations (except of course CNN who wouldn't report that if their lives depended on it) and read it in the newspaper. It has been awhile ago (like months before the war actually started) so I don't know where you could go to get the information unless you could find an archive that would have it.

Now, back to the original idea (which I'm sure won't stay very long)...I think it's great that these guys wanted to show their support. 15,000 is A LOT of people. I'm sure the women and men in Iraq appreciate the support.

babolaypo65
04-13-2003, 08:24 AM
thanks. I'll go looking after i get home today.
again, thanks for your help.
:)

mugsy
04-13-2003, 10:00 AM
no problem! I hope you can find the info that you're looking for.

RICHARD
04-13-2003, 11:56 AM
ding dong.

just chiming in,

during the 'original' WTC bombing it was disclosed that a chap named ramsi yussef WAS in the employ of saddam and iraq.
just a thought...

Soledad
04-13-2003, 04:25 PM
Oh, I'm sorry...I thought this was the Dog House. A place for debate and controversial topics. I was unaware that it was a forum for strictly for positive thoughts. :rolleyes:

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...

babolaypo65
04-13-2003, 04:59 PM
I do remember that one...
Nice sound effects!
does this mean you're all the way back from your self imposed exile?


Originally posted by RICHARD
ding dong.

just chiming in,

during the 'original' WTC bombing it was disclosed that a chap named ramsi yussef WAS in the employ of saddam and iraq.
just a thought...

yorkster
04-13-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
ding dong.

just chiming in,

during the 'original' WTC bombing it was disclosed that a chap named ramsi yussef WAS in the employ of saddam and iraq.
just a thought...


I had wondered if there was actually proof of a connection also, so thank you for 'chiming in' ;)
You're full of all kinds of info Richard! :D

mugsy
04-13-2003, 07:12 PM
It is a place for discussion and debate, but why must you ruin every thread that tries to bring positive news? Save the debate for threads that warrent it. I think you just like to stir crap up.

Hey Richard....is that the best you can do for a doorbell??? Sheesh...ours plays songs! ;) :p

Cudos to the men and women who serve us all at home and abroad!!!

Soledad
04-14-2003, 12:04 AM
How did I ruin it? I didn't claim that everyone has ruined my threads because they asked questions that differed with my own opinions. I didn't make a fuss when RICHARD clogged my threads with irrelevant articles.

I'm disappointed in you, Mugsy. I thought you were a better debater who didn't rely on personal attacks to subvert your opponents.

Chinadoll
04-14-2003, 10:26 AM
First I want to say, I think it's wonderful that so many people got together to support the troops no matter what the cause...our troops need to know that we are thinking of them and support them.

Since it's been brought up...my thoughts...When this all first came about and there was a big possibility that we were going to war with Iraq, my thoughts were why now? To me, I needed something a bit more cataclysmic to justify going to war....not just WMD or the inhumane treatment of his people. Let's face it..how many other countries have WMD or the potential to have WMD and how many other countries have extremely poor human rights and cruel dictators? Are we going to go after them all?

When Bush was struggling to get support for his cause, why wouldn't he publicly state that Saddam was connected with 9-11? If it's true that Saddam was connected why not state it? Lord knows that would make sense for this seemingly vendetta. To me speculation or even rumor that intelligence confirmed it is not enough.

Don't get me wrong...something needed to be done about Saddam. For how long has he been breaking UN resolutions? And for the UN to keep extending his deadlines was just ridiculous. But, when did it go from us protecting ourselves and protecting our freedoms (ie. Operation Enduring Freedom) to liberating the Iraqi people? Was it just better press to gain more support?

While I do believe that our troops are over there in order to uphold our freedoms and liberties and well as helping the Iraqi people, I still wonder why now? What was the cause...and if it really was Saddam bank rolling 9-11, then I want evidence.

But no matter what the cause, my main concern is supporting our troops. They are over there because they have such strong beliefs in our country so much so that they stand up and fight for it. So right or wrong, good or bad, we did go to war and our troops need all the support they can get.

Ok, said my rambling 2 cents. Flame away :P

mugsy
04-14-2003, 11:08 AM
No flaming here.....just that intelligence sources can't be revealed at the risk of their lives and the break in information. That, unfortunately, leaves the proof as a secret. Just a thought.

Soledad, I've read and reread my post and yours and have yet to find the personal attack, but, it's my opinion and that's all it is. I am not looking to debate anything since that's not why the thread was started.

RICHARD
04-14-2003, 12:04 PM
saying that you support the troops, but oppose the war is
akin to supporting a butcher when you are a vegan......


i kinda see the point but.......



can i have a two pounds of ground round??

sol,

you shouldn't complain that i want to play with you.
who else will give you a run for you money??

china,
a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist....
a pretty narrow field of view but 3,000 people minding their own business should be just that......people minding their business.
i never think about jumping out of an office window to keep from burning to death when i show up at work.....

gravity and i do not get along.;)

RICHARD
04-14-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Soledad
I didn't make a fuss when RICHARD clogged my threads with irrelevant articles.




irrelevant?????

it's a big gray animal with tusks, big ears and a long nose called a trunk......that's irrelevant!


tell ya what...
i put a smile on my mug(sy) this morning and said,
i'm gonna have a good day today.....why aren't you??

be thankful i don't clog your arteries;)

in an effort to make things a tad clearer, say you support men and women in the service of our country....

troops and soldiers usually are sent to fight wars.
and we oppose the war, don't we?????:rolleyes:

sammi
04-14-2003, 02:07 PM
Sara, Thank you for posting this. I think that it was appropriate for supporters to gather at Ground Zero. And what a great turn out!!!!!

yorkster
04-14-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Chinadoll


Since it's been brought up...my thoughts...When this all first came about and there was a big possibility that we were going to war with Iraq, my thoughts were why now? To me, I needed something a bit more cataclysmic to justify going to war....not just WMD or the inhumane treatment of his people. Let's face it..how many other countries have WMD or the potential to have WMD and how many other countries have extremely poor human rights and cruel dictators? Are we going to go after them all?

Ok, said my rambling 2 cents. Flame away :P


Thank you Chinadoll!

Pretty much everything you have said in your (entire) post is what I feel.
You're a voice of reason finally :cool: ;)

(ahem.......aside from Richard of course!):rolleyes:

iceyshiver21
04-14-2003, 10:27 PM
I;m a little tired right now.....BUT, thats never made me bite my tounge....I think that saddam needed to be taken down...yes there are other dictators just like him, obessed with him self just like him, kills others for sensless reasons just like him and has a picture of him self in every rooms of his palaces just like him....but heres the deal....he sopposably funded the terroists of 9/11 there for cotributing to the bully that took out everyone on the pay ground that day....sure we'd like to stop all the people like him but we cant stop them just for that.....I know that.....

Soledad
04-15-2003, 12:02 AM
"he sopposably funded the terroists of 9/11"

Can someone PLEASE show me where I can find evidence of this? I don't like to go on conjecture.

marysmerrycats
04-15-2003, 01:35 AM
"he sopposably funded the terroists of 9/11"

Can someone PLEASE show me where I can find evidence of this? I don't like to go on conjecture.
Soledad
I'm not posting to make you mad, just want to ask, do you really believe that he should have been left in power? even if he didn't have anything to do with it? (and I believe that he did)
I'm just curious on your thoughts on that.


saying that you support the troops, but oppose the war is akin to supporting a butcher when you are a vegan......
Richard, I don't agree. I think there are people that support the troops, and want them to come home safe, but that did not want the war. at least I hope there are

Soledad
04-15-2003, 02:24 AM
No, I don't believe he should have stayed in power. I believe the US should have acted multilaterally.

And I don't think anyone will convince RICHARD that there are those who don't support the war but support the troops. I know I don't care to explain it yet again.:rolleyes:

iceyshiver21
04-15-2003, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by Soledad
"he sopposably funded the terroists of 9/11"

Can someone PLEASE show me where I can find evidence of this? I don't like to go on conjecture.

Key word- "supposedly"

p.s. I put that word in just for you when I was typing it.:p

petsbestern
04-15-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Soledad
"he sopposably funded the terroists of 9/11"

Can someone PLEASE show me where I can find evidence of this? I don't like to go on conjecture.

They don't have any evidence. There is none. :rolleyes:

Iceyshiver, you are not supposed to go bomb a country when its "supposedly." You can suppose anything on anyone and bomb the whole world. :rolleyes: Exactly what we are doing. Now we are threatening Syria. I bet they will be next. :rolleyes:

Chinadoll, you said just what I was thinking. Since when did this turn from disarming Saddam and making the US safer to liberating the Iraqi people? :confused: The fact is that before the war, the reason was all for disarming Saddam because he's a threat to the US and to make the US safer. Now all of a sudden it turns to liberating the Iraqi people. Sorry, but I don't believe jokes. This reason was obviously made to gain support or to make people stop demonstrating. I for one believe it isn't true. It was to disarm Saddam because he's a threat to the US. That's why we are supposedly there. Now what are we going to say? We are off to free Syrians? LOL Syrians are not oppressed. This is pathetic. We're going to bomb country after country and I cannot BELIEVE how stupid my countrymen are to allow this to happen. We are a democratic nation and we have the right to speak. If we keep accepting and backing all the excuses our president makes, he's going to bomb the whole Middle East, one after the the other. This is just insane. These nations NEVER brought the war to our land. WE are taking the war to their land. Of course they are going to hate us. :rolleyes: If we really go after Syria this time and the American public doesn't wake up, I'm sorry to say, but I will be very ashamed of my fellow Americans. WAKE UP Americans! What are we doing?!?!

RICHARD
04-15-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by marysmerrycats


Richard, I don't agree. I think there are people that support the troops, and want them to come home safe, but that did not want the war. at least I hope there are


i understand your point.
i just feel that if we support the troops/soldiers we have to support them 100%. war and all. that's what they do. that's what they train for. they want the chance to prove their meddle and
show the people that support them that they are the best at what they do.

the thing that bothers me the most are the people who, because of their fear and lack of backbone, picked up the mantra, 'i support the troops' as a way of not being challenged or labeled as non-patriotic.

soldiers do not want war, who does????

soldiers should be the insurance policy against war.

BUT, when they do go to do their job i think that we owe them the respect and the backing they deserve, after all they do the job that some people will not do, or can't do.


i, for one, thank them for the job they do. i don't want war either.
but when the call comes i want the best..... i want the best weaponry, best equipment and best support those guys can have.

i truly believe that if you send a person to war, and the possibility
of them coming home in an aluminum box that we should support them NO MATTER WHAT. again, they are doing something that i cannot-so i HAVE to support them 100%.

-------------------------------------------------------
try a little conjecture in your life.......
what's the worst thing that will happen???

you may be wrong or you may skin a knee....
but perish the thought you may be wrong for once,
you may have to apologize and lose a little face.
we can't have that!

RICHARD
04-15-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by petsbestern
WE are taking the war to their land. Of course they are going to hate us. :rolleyes:





check this thought out.....
four airliners crashed on 9/11 because of the love terrorists
felt for us.

how many more terrorist attacks have we had since then????

1

some joker decided to walk up to the EL AL counter in LAX last FOURTH OF JULY and shot the place up. (the LAPD just released their findings a few days ago.)

evidence works well in the court of law.

the one thing that will either make or break your ideas about the US' drive for world domination is time.

check out WHAT kind of government Syria has and get back to me.
no the people are not oppressed...they are kept from quite a bit of the basic needs that you and i take for granted. they are denied the knowledge and the rights to make their government work for them.

be ashamed and protest and do what you will.

but remember to look into the topic and the reasons that the US does what we do before making a judgement against us.

would another four airplanes crashing into buildings in your neighborhood make you change your mind???.....it happened once and i was not happy about it.

maybe a few days off because of a dirty bomb or a chem attack are more in line with what they are thinking for the next time...god forbid.....

on second thought, you have convinced me....leave them alone, talk with then and try to be friends........i love being kicked in the head...

xo

ChrisH
04-15-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD

i just feel that if we support the troops/soldiers we have to support them 100%. war and all. that's what they do. that's what they train for. they want the chance to prove their meddle and
show the people that support them that they are the best at what they do........
......soldiers do not want war, who does????
soldiers should be the insurance policy against war.
BUT, when they do go to do their job i think that we owe them the respect and the backing they deserve, after all they do the job that some people will not do, or can't do.
i, for one, thank them for the job they do. i don't want war either.
but when the call comes i want the best..... i want the best weaponry, best equipment and best support those guys can have.
i truly believe that if you send a person to war, and the possibility
of them coming home in an aluminum box that we should support them NO MATTER WHAT. again, they are doing something that i cannot-so i HAVE to support them 100%.

So well said Richard. I agree with every word.

Christine

Dakota's Mommy
04-15-2003, 01:57 PM
Thank you Richard, I was just thinking that same thing!

Pam
04-15-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by petsbestern
We're going to bomb country after country

he's going to bomb the whole Middle East, one after the the other.

Aren't you getting just a little carried away? Don't you watch the briefings with Sec. Rumsfeld and Ari Fleischer? You sound like you need to take a deep breath. :rolleyes:

sammi
04-15-2003, 02:45 PM
Again well said Richard.

iceyshiver21
04-15-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by petsbestern
They don't have any evidence. There is none. :rolleyes:

Iceyshiver, you are not supposed to go bomb a country when its "supposedly." You can suppose anything on anyone and bomb the whole world. :rolleyes: Exactly what we are doing. Now we are threatening Syria. I bet they will be next. :rolleyes:


I said "supposedly" because I didnt have and link or somthing that I could share on here to prove my point.

marysmerrycats
04-15-2003, 04:06 PM
Richard

I was only trying to say that that I think there are people that are anti-war, that doesn't mean they don't support the troops. just like your comparison about the butcher, I would hope that people could respect the other persons beliefs without believing in them , themselves. does that make sense? if I was a vegatarian, I wouldn't go protesting the butcher shop, he has a right to not be a vegatarian, like I have a right to be one. (I am not one though)
just like, I am NOT against the war, I never have been, but that doesn't mean that I don't think that others should not have the right to not want it.

anyway, I am not real crazy about Bush, but I think he is right about this, and I don't think he's insane and just going to bomb country after country!
we are trying to get rid of terrorists! my god, I think he waited long enough for the UN to come around, and they werent going to! all this should have been done a long time ago!
I don't like war either but the idea of leaving these madmen of the world alone to keep doing what they are doing is even more scary to me.

and I agree with you about the the soldiers too, they are doing all this for us, and I do respect them very much! they deserve everyones respect!

KYS
04-15-2003, 05:46 PM
Just a little bit of new news. (not official through the Pentagon)
MSNBC just reported that Abu Abbas, a terrorist mastermind
mostly known for the highjacking of the Achille Lauro,
was captured in a home around or in Baghdad.
(I am assuming he will probably be sent to Italy
to face trial.)

Richard, I am also waiting for petsbestern reply to
your post about the Syrian Government.

RICHARD
04-15-2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by KYS
Just a little bit of new news. (not official through the Pentagon)
MSNBC just reported that Abu Abbas, a terrorist mastermind
mostly known for the highjacking of the Achille Lauro,
was captured in his home in Baghdad.
(I am assuming he will probably be sent to Italy
to face trial.)

Richard, I am also waiting for petsbestern reply to
your post about the Syrian Government.


no trial for that SOB -for the record that a.h. SHOT A WHEELCHAIR BOUND passenger and pushed the body overboard.
klinghoffer was his name.....a real man that abbas is...wouldn't it be tragic if he fell down a flight of stairs before his trial ;)

Kys,

waiting also......



merry,

sorry about the rush to judgement- i
saw a woman who had a huge pink 'stop the war' sign taped to her tailgate (the car, not her rear!) and on top of it was a hastily
added 'support the troops and'....
i don't mind if that was the message from the beginning, but when it becomes an addendum or an afterthought- THAT PISSES ME OFF. these guys deserve the respect from the beginning, not as a 'oops, someone yelled at me so i better fix the sign!!' or
'geez someone may think i'm unpatriotic!!!"

RICHARD
04-15-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by iceyshiver21
I said "supposedly" because I didnt have and link or somthing that I could share on here to prove my point.


somedays a thought from your own head is worth more that a link or website, it shows you can think for yourself....

:)

if you believe your point that's all that matters, don't be blind to someone else's view, and if you have to apologize or retract your statement remember, it only hurts for a second!!!:cool:

Soledad
04-15-2003, 06:59 PM
somedays a thought from your own head is worth more that a link or website, it shows you can think for yourself

I was seeking out a fact, not an opinion. Facts need backing up. Personal feelings/thoughts do not.

Of course, thinking you know something is quite different. Especially when you cannot back it up with a simple web search or newspaper scan.

RICHARD
04-15-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Soledad
I was seeking out a fact, not an opinion. Facts need backing up. Personal feelings/thoughts do not.

Of course, thinking you know something is quite different. Especially when you cannot back it up with a simple web search or newspaper scan.


here's a fact.
sometimes helping someone out with a discussion in not only welcome, it's the civil thing to do.

and you of all people!!!!!!

i'd like you to back up some of the things that you 'chicken little'd'
before the war.

hike in gas prices
civil unrest in arab countries
thousands of women and children being killed by US bombs...
ad naseum....

were those opinions or statements of fact?????lololololol

again, instead of challenging a kid and taking them by the hand to instruct them or getting the to critically think, you smile, and
roll up the newspaper just to smack them in the head with it.

I admire ICE because she's got moxie and the desire to ask questions....there's nothing like smacking a kid around when they
make a statement and can't back it up, huh?...me, i'd rather give them a chance and let them say something outrageous..and then try to find out WHY they said it....i mean they are just kids right?????


and if you seek facts go find them yourself! you are far more
qualified to search the web than ICE is.

funny we keep going over this time and time again. you make a statement. i laugh and contest it, then you fly off the handle and cry FOUL!!!


here think about this one......

all the prostestors are screaming about how 'korea is a bigger threat than iraq was' - what are we supposed to do about korea???
should we go over and take care of this threat there'll be protestors in the street, supporting troops, but crying about the
people of korea???

lol, that's rich (wait that's ME!!!!!!)

the only point i have to prove is the point my head comes to!

loving ya buddy!

Soledad
04-15-2003, 08:36 PM
I looked all over the resource I have available to me and have not found one place where there was evidence that Saddam had connections to 9-11. There may be evidence of it. But I haven't found it. I would think that if there was proof, that it would be VERY easy to find.

I was directing my request for information at everyone here. Not just Icey.

In all this time of war discussion, you have never taken the time to truly hear in a non judgmental way, my end. So I find it laughable that you are now claiming to welcome open minds and critical thought.

The war on Iraq is not over. There are a lot of variables still at play. Like the little matter of where the hell Saddam is. There is a humanitarian crisis in Iraq that needs sorted out quickly and if you think there is not unrest in the Arab world, you would be mistaken.

I do not recall making the claim that oil prices would rise no matter what. Everyone has been saying that a short war would do wonders for oil prices. And to my knowledge, there has been no count of civilian casualities or deaths and I firmly believe their lives were considered so deeply because of world opposition to the war and the peace protests.

yorkster
04-15-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD


here think about this one......

all the prostestors are screaming about how 'korea is a bigger threat than iraq was' - what are we supposed to do about korea???
should we go over and take care of this threat there'll be protestors in the street, supporting troops, but crying about the
people of korea???




actually Richard I have wondered (aloud) about that too.

not so much in the "are we going to go there too and take care of this threat" way,
but more like:
why Iraq and NOT N. Korea? What is it that was the deciding factor to go to Iraq instead of N. Korea?
You hear people say the word OIL when that question is put out there, and honestly I have to wonder........................

Nobody yet has really given a good (or even fair) answer to that.
Maybe you could shed some light, because if there is a explanation, I would like to know what it is. I always have desire to fully understand all sides of things.

PS- looking to see pics of your kitty too. maybe I'll go check out that thread 'a face only a dad could love' of yours while I wait.

iceyshiver21
04-15-2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Soledad
I was seeking out a fact, not an opinion. Facts need backing up. Personal feelings/thoughts do not.

Of course, thinking you know something is quite different. Especially when you cannot back it up with a simple web search or newspaper scan.

Personally I pefer a news clipping but I dont get our "Marshall Independent" newspaper delivered to my house :( I read it at school and then I ask my socail teachers any of my questions about it so they can also help me with the back up info, like what problems we had with Saddam in '91 when I was like 4. I'll try and find more stuff to back up my information but like when I first posted that I said "supposedly" because thats just what I heard, not what Info I had to back it up....as for simple web search it is easy for anyone to make a website or post somthing thats why I prefer TV and New clippings over it. Yah Yah I know that If I look on like foxnews.com or somthing, but I dont know the stories on there always seem to dissapear and be replaced by somthing else.

Maybe I should record the people I talk to about it and post it on here, that would be so cool! :cool:

iceyshiver21
04-15-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by Soledad
And to my knowledge, there has been no count of civilian casualities or deaths
I gave a rough count on here that I saw on CNN and FOX, Ill try and find it in print for you.

iceyshiver21
04-15-2003, 10:09 PM
Heres the closest thing I found-
USA TODAY! (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-04-08-iraq-casualties_x.htm)

I dont think that there is a way to get a possitive death count for Iraqis because we dont know how many civilions joined the war or how many got caught in the aftermath.

My dads kicking me off the comp but heres what I found-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0%2C3604%2C890634%2C00.html
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/21/wirq21.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/21/ixhome.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/747339/posts

**Some of it has the Oklahoma city bombing in it. I'm sorry about that.

mugsy
04-16-2003, 08:33 AM
I think that a lot of the connections between 911 and Saddam Hussein are "proven" but are coming from classified documents and sources that are not available (for good reason) to the media and the general public. I, unlike you Soledad, am willing to accept somethings that I am told because I trust the source enough when I'm told that the information is classified. Now, I'm sure it will be a case that I'm wrong because I trust someone, but so be it, that's the way it goes and it's my choice. Do I trust blindly....no....that's just stupid.

RICHARD
04-16-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by yorkster

You hear people say the word OIL when that question is put out there, and honestly I have to wonder........................

Nobody yet has really given a good (or even fair) answer to that.
Maybe you could shed some light, because if there is a explanation, I would like to know what it is. I always have desire to fully understand all sides of things.



blood for oil...

here we go............

why would be send our troops to take over the oil fields in iraq when .......

we could have bought the oil for ourselves under the "FOOD FOR OIL" sanctions we lobbied for against iraq- let the iraqis do ALL the work and we benefit from their labor...isn't that the American way???? lol.....why go in and take the chance that saddam would destroy the oil fields before we get our hands on them-that would set back the plans for our world conquest, no? oh wait, we want to get OUR people in there to rebuild the oil pumping stations, waste years building the oil infrastructure, and then get the oil!!!!!!!....it flies in the face of common sense......


and do debunk another cliche....-GW STOLE, WAS ANOINTED INTO
THE PRESIDENCY....
if i remember correctly AG had a chance to win 49 other states,
(oh to lose your home state, tennesee, in a pres election!!!!)
he won, some lost others......had he been a better candidate
and ralph nader not run...things may have been a bit different..


but i may be wrong....

RICHARD
04-16-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Soledad


In all this time of war discussion, you have never taken the time to truly hear in a non judgmental way, my end.

I do not recall making the claim that oil prices would rise no matter what

And to my knowledge, there has been no count of civilian casualities or deaths and I firmly believe their lives were considered so deeply because of world opposition to the war and the peace protests.


sorry i mistook you for some one else,
you know how things are when you hear the same lines
over and over and over and over and over again.

and seriously, why would i listen to you in a nonjudgemental way
when beat the crap outta people looking for information???


to my knowledge there has been a running count as to the casualties during the regime change, invasion, occupation..

oh dear,
again i apologize for thinking you had made some of those outrageous comments before the war. mea culpa.

now that that is over would you consider trying to be nice for a day or two????? it won't cost you anything and i may start to like you.

please?
:D

iceyshiver21
04-16-2003, 12:37 PM
Iraqi-
POWs- 7000+
Dead- 1250(not positive because theres really noway to tell)

American/British-
POWs- 0
Dead- 127(give or take a few)

This is the most recent death count I have seen its from CNN though and they arent the most reiliable source. This is a few day old.

RICHARD
04-16-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by iceyshiver21
Iraqi-
POWs- 7000+
Dead- 1250(not positive because theres really noway to tell)

American/British-
POWs- 0
Dead- 127(give or take a few)

This is the most recent death count I have seen its from CNN though and they arent the most reiliable source. This is a few day old.


good work!

mugsy
04-16-2003, 02:35 PM
There is a link on Fox News that updates daily the casualties.

iceyshiver21
04-16-2003, 04:01 PM
Death Toll

Coalition: 156 coalition deaths reported.
123 U.S.
31 British f coalition fatalities

List of coalition fatalities
Wounded:
495 U.S.
No numbers available for British
Iraq: Iraq has not released details of military casualties. U.S. military officials have reported thousands of Iraqi military deaths. Abu Dhabi TV, quoting official Iraqi sources, reported that 1,252 Iraqi civilians have been killed and 5,103 wounded.

POWs/MIAs

Missing or captured: 3 U.S. are MIA

Iraqi POWs: 7,300+ are in Coalition custody

Theres a better one....

(again from CNN.....I couldnt find the Fox news one Mugsy :( Ill go looks some more)

yorkster
04-16-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
blood for oil...

here we go............

why would be send our troops to take over the oil fields in iraq when .......

we could have bought the oil for ourselves under the "FOOD FOR OIL" sanctions we lobbied for against iraq- let the iraqis do ALL the work and we benefit from their labor...isn't that the American way???? lol.....why go in and take the chance that saddam would destroy the oil fields before we get our hands on them-that would set back the plans for our world conquest, no? oh wait, we want to get OUR people in there to rebuild the oil pumping stations, waste years building the oil infrastructure, and then get the oil!!!!!!!....it flies in the face of common sense......





Okay. I see your point and it's a good one. Not saying I completely buy into it, but I am going to consider it (seriously).
Hmmmmmm..............................

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject (I know it was probably difficult to give us your opinion! hee-hee :p )

RICHARD
04-16-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by yorkster
Okay. I see your point and it's a good one. Not saying I completely buy into it, but I am going to consider it (seriously).
Hmmmmmm..............................

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject (I know it was probably difficult to give us your opinion! hee-hee :p )



hokay!

for the record (and a chance to win you over completely-lolololol)
which part can i try to resell you on???

thanks!:eek:

mugsy
04-16-2003, 05:13 PM
Richard Richard Richard, you are such a stud that you are winning women over left and right. The amount of water on the brain must be increasing logrithmically! lol

iceyshiver21
04-16-2003, 05:14 PM
LOL :D Thats funny.. :D

KYS
04-16-2003, 05:35 PM
posted by iceyshiver21:LOL :D Thats funny.. :D >>>>>

I got a laugh on that one too. :D

RICHARD
04-16-2003, 06:38 PM
can't you ladies be serious for one moment????

it is a controversial thread......isn't it????


:p


geez i get serious for all of three seconds and the roof falls in....



(i still love you all!)

mugsy
04-16-2003, 07:25 PM
I hope ther wasn't a flood when the roof hit your head and split it open!! lol

RICHARD
04-17-2003, 11:23 AM
i had to change my shirt....



happy thursday everyone!!1
taking your orders now!!

catland
04-17-2003, 12:44 PM
I'm on vacation in exactly 6 hours 15 minutes. It's kind of cool and rainy here today so I'd like a Spanish coffee.;)

sammi
04-17-2003, 02:55 PM
I can't drink the hard stuff so - I want one of those cobalt blue bottles of selzer water I see on t.v. shows!:D A fancy glass with lots of ice and one of those umbrella things! ( don't forget a coaster too!)


Thank you sir.

RICHARD
04-17-2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by sammi
I can't drink the hard stuff so - I want one of those cobalt blue bottles of selzer water I see on t.v. shows!:D A fancy glass with lots of ice and one of those umbrella things! ( don't forget a coaster too!)


Thank you sir.


forget the coaster????
i am not a heathen dear.....lol

you all are very welcome!

can i interest anyone in a tequila gimlet???

babolaypo65
04-17-2003, 03:57 PM
I could do tequila!

RICHARD
04-18-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
I could do tequila!
hmmmm that says alot!!!

yorkster
04-18-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
I could do tequila!


I used to be able to do tequila :confused: ;)

babolaypo65
04-18-2003, 07:02 PM
It does....
remember, I'm from New Mexico!


Originally posted by RICHARD
hmmmm that says alot!!!

babolaypo65
04-18-2003, 07:03 PM
ooh. that can't be a pretty story. But of course, I want to hear it.


Originally posted by yorkster
I used to be able to do tequila :confused: ;)

yorkster
04-18-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
ooh. that can't be a pretty story. But of course, I want to hear it.


no, it's NOT a pretty story (or 2). let's just say it was quite a few years ago, and I'm older and wiser now. maybe I'll tell the whole story sometime.....................:eek: :D

RICHARD
04-21-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
It does....
remember, I'm from New Mexico!


what happened to the old mexico????

and york,

i'll give you 20 bucks for the films rights to your story!
(i know it's worth more but that's all i have....)

:eek:

babolaypo65
04-21-2003, 12:45 PM
20 bucks!!!! Its worth at least 30!

RICHARD
04-21-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
20 bucks!!!! Its worth at least 30!


now i have to deal with the agent.......
40 bucks, forfeit creative input and i'll let york decide
who she wants to play her......

final offer.

babolaypo65
04-21-2003, 02:27 PM
You'd be great at this. I especially like (and hope Yorkster doesn't notice) that she forfeits creative input....
this could be a blockbuster!



Originally posted by RICHARD
now i have to deal with the agent.......
40 bucks, forfeit creative input and i'll let york decide
who she wants to play her......

final offer. :D

RICHARD
04-22-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
You'd be great at this. I especially like (and hope Yorkster doesn't notice) that she forfeits creative input....
this could be a blockbuster!


:D


psssssst,
yorkster hasn't answered...should we proceed???


robert vaughn as don rumsfeldt

babolaypo65
04-22-2003, 12:44 PM
Absolutely we proceed!

yorkster
04-22-2003, 05:06 PM
wait, wait!
I'm here now! (been gone for a couple days)

It will take a lot more than $40 for my story! :p money upfront, and of course I'll have to get 'creative input'!

babolaypo65
04-22-2003, 05:19 PM
richard: did you get the papers through before she saw these messages??:D

RICHARD
04-22-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by yorkster
wait, wait!
I'm here now! (been gone for a couple days)

It will take a lot more than $40 for my story! :p money upfront, and of course I'll have to get 'creative input'!

let's start with who will play you in your life story....then we will talk....:)


(that will teach you to post the 'lurid' details of your life!!!!)

yorkster
04-22-2003, 06:56 PM
hmmmmmm,
that would be a very difficult decision :confused:

I'll need time to think about it :rolleyes:

babolaypo65
04-22-2003, 07:16 PM
Come on richard, hop to it, flatter her!!! Name some beautiful, intelligent, women with great personalities and sparkling that could play her!
We must win her over so WE can make a movie about the lurid details of her life... or at least an after school special.... maybe one with Helen Hunt (frightening, but i remember that she was in lots of those in the 80s.)

yorkster
04-22-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
Come on richard, hop to it, flatter her!!! Name some beautiful, intelligent, women with great personalities and sparkling that could play her!
We must win her over so WE can make a movie about the lurid details of her life... or at least an after school special.... maybe one with Helen Hunt (frightening, but i remember that she was in lots of those in the 80s.)


I like Helen Hunt...............she would be a good choice.

Was she really on one of those after school specials? I don't remember that for some reason.........................:confused:
Maybe it was all that tequila in the 80's ;)

babolaypo65
04-23-2003, 09:44 AM
Helen Hunt it is! Richard will contact her agents.

yes, indeedy, being the cinema and tv savant that I am, I can tell you that she was indeed in afterschool specials in the 70s. In one memorable performance, she played a good girl gone bad, who took PCP (aka angel dust) and then jumped out the window of her school building (second story).
she was also the "quarterback princess" and earlier still played Murray Slaughter's daughter on the Mary Tyler Moore show. She was also in a TV version of Swiss Family Robinson, and guest starred on the Bionic Woman (as the alien space princess.)
arent you sorry you asked??


Originally posted by yorkster
I like Helen Hunt...............she would be a good choice.

Was she really on one of those after school specials? I don't remember that for some reason.........................:confused:
Maybe it was all that tequila in the 80's ;) :D

RICHARD
04-23-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
Helen Hunt it is! Richard will contact her agents.

yes, indeedy, being the cinema and tv savant that I am, I can tell you that she was indeed in afterschool specials in the 70s. In one memorable performance, she played a good girl gone bad, who took PCP (aka angel dust) and then jumped out the window of her school building (second story).
she was also the "quarterback princess" and earlier still played Murray Slaughter's daughter on the Mary Tyler Moore show. She was also in a TV version of Swiss Family Robinson, and guest starred on the Bionic Woman (as the alien space princess.)
arent you sorry you asked??

:D

i'll call helen and we'll arrange something....

and btw,
why do I do the hard work and you get the trivia???

babolaypo65
04-23-2003, 12:25 PM
It's my calling.

and seriously: contacting helen hunt is "the hard work"??? we need to talk....


Originally posted by RICHARD
i'll call helen and we'll arrange something....

and btw,
why do I do the hard work and you get the trivia???

RICHARD
04-23-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
It's my calling.

and seriously: contacting helen hunt is "the hard work"??? we need to talk....



YES, it's hard work i have to HUNT her down.....


:rolleyes:

yorkster
04-23-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
Helen Hunt it is! Richard will contact her agents.

yes, indeedy, being the cinema and tv savant that I am, I can tell you that she was indeed in afterschool specials in the 70s. In one memorable performance, she played a good girl gone bad, who took PCP (aka angel dust) and then jumped out the window of her school building (second story).
she was also the "quarterback princess" and earlier still played Murray Slaughter's daughter on the Mary Tyler Moore show. She was also in a TV version of Swiss Family Robinson, and guest starred on the Bionic Woman (as the alien space princess.)
arent you sorry you asked??

:D


you know.............that PCP show with Helen sounds very familiar now that you bring it up.

WOW, you sure do know your TV/movie trivia :)

and Richard, I know it will be a difficult job to contact Ms. Hunt, but someone has to do it. It's just that you have such a way with words and all that............................we all feel so sorry for you! :):):)

RICHARD
04-23-2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by yorkster


and Richard, I know it will be a difficult job to contact Ms. Hunt, but someone has to do it. It's just that you have such a way with words and all that............................we all feel so sorry for you! :):):)




Sela Ward or Jane Seymour would make me work harder.....lolololol

babolaypo65
04-23-2003, 04:09 PM
You got something against blonds???
;)

Originally posted by RICHARD
Sela Ward or Jane Seymour would make me work harder.....lolololol

yorkster
04-23-2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
Sela Ward or Jane Seymour would make me work harder.....lolololol


I was thinking of Susan Sarandan - I know how much you like her :p

(I like her though)

RICHARD
04-23-2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
You got something against blonds???
;)


ummmmmmmm,


no.....i just could think of one....;)

babolaypo65
04-23-2003, 04:22 PM
That's so sad....
Would you like us to start a list for you?


Originally posted by RICHARD
ummmmmmmm,


no.....i just could think of one....;)

RICHARD
04-23-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
That's so sad....
Would you like us to start a list for you?


PLEASE,
no pam anderson, or heather locklear........

eeeewwwwwwwwww......

Cincy'sMom
04-23-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65

she was also the "quarterback princess"
:D

I think if I go through my OLD videos I taped that off tv!!!

Wasn't she in "Girls just wanna have fun", the one about the catholic school girls that sneak on to some American Bandstand type show?

babolaypo65
04-23-2003, 08:37 PM
Extra credit points for Cincy's mom for knowing "girls just want to have fun" a great helen hunt film.
Now, in keeping with the theme of the dog house... if you DO find "quarterback princess" you will find another future star.... Tim Robbins as one of her football teammates.

and SHAME on Richard for thinking OUR list of blonds would include either pamela anderson OR heather locklear.
QUALITY blonds richard!!! :cool:

RICHARD
04-24-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65

and SHAME on Richard for thinking OUR list of blonds would include either pamela anderson OR heather locklear.
QUALITY blonds richard!!! :cool:

it figures...


and helen wants to see a script or some kind of synopsis...
she does not do projects 'sight unseen'.......;)

babolaypo65
04-24-2003, 06:47 PM
well, Im sure that for the sake of ART york will go ahead and tell us her tale....

for art. so we can work on the script.


Originally posted by RICHARD
it figures...


and helen wants to see a script or some kind of synopsis...
she does not do projects 'sight unseen'.......;)

yorkster
04-24-2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
well, Im sure that for the sake of ART york will go ahead and tell us her tale....

for art. so we can work on the script.


I'm afraid it's not that interesting a tale :p
-probably not big-movie material..................but maybe an after school special or possibly a Lifetime movie ;)
with say like Melissa Gilbert or someone along those lines.


and BTW Richard, isn't it Thursday?

babolaypo65
04-24-2003, 08:16 PM
it IS thursday!!!!

and yes, I think we need to admit that it might only be shown on Lifetime television for victims..... arr arrr arrr
helen hunt could still do it though! although melissa gilbert would be fine too.

yorkster
04-24-2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
it IS thursday!!!!

and yes, I think we need to admit that it might only be shown on Lifetime television for victims..... arr arrr arrr
helen hunt could still do it though! although melissa gilbert would be fine too.


I would prefer that Helen did it, but I think she is too big a star now for Lifetime ;) But we could try for her!
I'd settle for Melissa if Helen won't do it...........................

(actually, secretly I like Lifetime :rolleyes: )

babolaypo65
04-24-2003, 09:02 PM
i think secretly.... we all do..... :cool:

(actually, secretly I like Lifetime :rolleyes: ) [/B][/QUOTE]

yorkster
04-24-2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
i think secretely.... we all do..... :cool:

(actually, secretly I like Lifetime :rolleyes: ) [/B][/QUOTE]


Yeah, I think you're right.

My husband teases me all the time about watching the "chic-flick" station, but I've caught him engrossed in a movie there a few times :rolleyes:
He won't admit it, but he does not change the station either........

yorkster
04-24-2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
PLEASE,
no pam anderson, or heather locklear........

eeeewwwwwwwwww......


come on now. I know you secretly like anna-nicole smith!:p :eek:

RICHARD
04-25-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by yorkster
come on now. I know you secretly like anna-nicole smith!:p :eek:


it's her personality, both of them......


lololololol:p

it is thursday!!!!

mugsy
04-25-2003, 12:01 PM
HUH UH!! It's Friday...or at least it better be! lol

Anna Nicole Smith is too stupid to even be commented on. WOW! What a piece of work she is. lol

Ok, how about these blondes...

Marilyn Monroe (another rocket scientist)
Candice Bergen
Loni Anderson (YIKES....I'm old!)
Goldie Hawn
Cheryl Ladd
Suzanne Somers
Twiggy

AAAACCCKKK...I give up.

Jane Paulie
Diane Sawyer

RICHARD
04-25-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by mugsy
HUH UH!! It's Friday...or at least it better be! lol


Loni Anderson (YIKES....I'm old!)




EWWWWW! she had that weird cleavage thing going on.....
check it out..

yorkster
04-25-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
it's her personality, both of them......


lololololol:p

it is thursday!!!!


There are at LEAST 2 personalities (and neither one is too bright) :D

iceyshiver21
04-25-2003, 09:50 PM
What> I missed this thursday...:eek: ...What is going on.... :( I havnt been able to get on much latley...(been reading.."To Kill a mockingbird" and takeing care for my new arrivals.

yorkster
04-26-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by iceyshiver21
What> I missed this thursday...:eek: ...What is going on.... :( I havnt been able to get on much latley...(been reading.."To Kill a mockingbird" and takeing care for my new arrivals.


We've been teasing Richard about which famous blondes he likes, or rather doesn't like (started with making a movie about my past experiences with tequila.............long story).

And BTW, "To Kill a Mockingbird" is my favorite all-time book. I even named my dog after Scout!
I should post her pic someday- she even kinda looks like a Scout :) she certainly has the personality that fits the character.