Luna: very bad litterbox problems now!

[Kirsten]

As you might know, my Luna is a very sweet and friendly kitty but she has developed a bad behavior problem now: She does not use her litter box. Little accidents happen almost daily now. :(

Luna and her litterboxes (yes, she has TWO of them) is a long story. Back in 2001, when she was about one year old, she started peeing onto my bed, first only occasionally, later almost every day. I finally found out what she wanted to tell me: One day I saw her scratching in her litterbox, then walk out to another place in the kitchen where she scratched on the floor. I figured that she wanted a second litter box in that area, bought it and from that day on things went better. For a while, she would wait until I came home from work, then jump onto my bed, start scratching, look at me, continue scratching and when I told her to use her box, she would run into the kitchen and use the box. Additionally, I used synthetic facial pheromones from the vet. Eventually, the litter box business worked without problems - till now!

I have moved last December - from a single room apartment into one with four rooms - a lot of space for Luna to run and play. I expected the peeing thing to start right after we've moved, but she continued to use her boxes and also seemed to enjoy all the space she has now. Luna even got her own room where her boxes are, and where she's eating (but her food isn't close to her boxes; in the old apartment, it has been even closer).

A while ago, I noticed that she sometimes peed on the floor in her room, once or twice, she even pooped onto it. And on time she peed next to her bowl of food! At that time her room was still empty except for a closet, her boxes and her bowls for her food, and I figured it might be too "open", if you know what I mean. So I got a second hand couch (which I had actually planned to use as a guest bed), some small furniture and a big scratching post which she loves. She also seemed to like the couch and started sleeping on it. But then - after a while - she started peeing onto that couch. First only once a week, now almost EVERY day! Can you imagine the smell coming out of that room meanwhile? Needless to say, the couch is totally ruined.

I had asked the vet to make sure Luna's not sick but the vet thinks it's not a health problem. If it was, Luna would lose drops of urine everywhere or at least pee everywhere, but she's only doing it in her room (where her boxes are), and that's so strange. Another strange thing is that the pheromones don't work this time.

The bad thing is I just have no idea why she's doing it. We (a couple of online friends in my little cat forum and I) have some theories but maybe somebody here as another idea...

Some of our theories:

- New litter: Okay, I had to change the litter 'cause Luna's litter isn't available anymore. But I found one that looks and smells (at least to me) exactly like her old one, it's also a natural scoopable clay litter. Also, the first "accidents" here had happened before I had to change the litter.

- She's feeling isolated: In the old apartment, we had only one big room so I was around all the time. Luna grew up in that environment. Now, even though she enjoys all the new space, she prefers to be in the same room with me, and she often wants me to follow her into her room where she wants me to play with her at the new scratching post or brush her. She would often walk into her room and then call me. I had figured she would enjoy her privacy while using the litterbox, but who knows...

- She's confused: I have recently lost my job under very bad circumstances and I'm very very upset and worried about my current situation. Luna might sense that and react with misbehaving, also, the change in the daily routine she has been used to might confuse her as well.

- She's bored: I've noticed that the last times she peed onto the couch, she always did it when I wasn't at home. Maybe she just doesn't like being alone? If that's the case, it might help her to get her little sister Lily soon.

Sorry, I know this was long, but maybe somebody here has another idea why she's acting like that? Any cat psychologists around? LOL

Thanks for reading,
Kirsten

[lailamara]

Luna may be suffering anxiety...not yet adjusted to the changes and picking up your mood. Ask the vet about short term use of anti- anxiety medication. Prozac for kitties . I had to do this with my Maya. She's a very high strung , sensitive and intense cat and it helped. It too stopped and started and now things have been good for a few months. My parents have been staying with me for the winter and are going back north in a few weeks . In anticipation of problems with Maya I"m going to give her the medication a few days before they leave and for a few days after. My parents have spoiled my cats with attention and I know they are going to be very affected by this. Good luck with Luna. Don't give up and get discouraged. Enzyme based cleaners for pets remove the smell and stain. I also put plastic and mattress pads to prevent the urine from seeping in. Cats are very complex creatures.:confused:

[moosmom]

Rule out a medical condition first. Cats do not like change. They are creatures of habit. It could be a number of things you mentioned...anxiety, change in cat litter, change in residence, you stressing over losing your job. Cats pick up on their humans vibes.

Have you tried putting her in a small room with her litterboxes, food and water? That's what I had to do with Mollie Rose when she was little. She pooped all over the house. When I asked the vet, she told me to put her in a room with all her toys, litterboxes, etc. and leave her there for 24-48 hours. It worked! I haven't had a problem since.

Please don't give up on her. She sounds like a great cat who is just a little confused.

[Barbara]

With Filou it helped to change from a closed litterbox to an open litterbox. Now -more litter on the bathroom floor but no more pee outside.

I would try another litter.
And get rid of that couch. I guess it is now so litterbox-like for her that there is no chance to get her away from it.

If it is not an UTI or something different, it can be a very complex thing.

Good luck and don't give up. I agree with Laila: cats are complex.

[BastetsMum]

I would rule out anything medical, then try kitty prozac. Ditch the couch because now it smells to Luna like its a good place to go.

Maybe after she has started using the litterboxes again to consider another cat but only if you and your vet are sure she won't start her behaviour problem again.

As for litter boxes, I now usea different litter for Bastet because the one she is used to Ican no longer get. I have always used a variety of litters though because of the fear of cat wee in the house I am living in now. *My flatmate's house OWNED by him and he would KILL me first then the cat :D*

I had to go from an open box to a closed box with Bastet. I think she likes privacy.

Best of luck.

[Kirsten]

Thanks everyone for your help, these are some interesting advices. :)

Found something out that is quite interesting. Noticed one morning that she had peed on the couch after she had used both her boxes during the night (peed into one them and pooped into the other one), so I decided to set up box #3 . She immediately walked into it and used it the same minute - and she has not used any other box since, she definitely loves the new one! I was thinking that her other boxes (even though they are regulary cleaned) might be too old and smelly for her little nose (one and two years old), so it may help to replace them by new boxes.

Don't know if this is already the solution for the problem, but at least one step into the right direction...

Kirsten

[smokey the elder]

Sometimes it's just that simple. I noticed since I got a male foster, Buddy, my own male, Tictac was peeing inappropriately. I moved a litter box to a more secluded spot. No problems so far. I think he was being pestered while doing his business.

Thanks for being patient with your cat!

[Barbara]

There are kitties who are very fussy with their litterbox. Tigris and Filou also have a special sound that says: Clean my litterbox. Now. (They never say please:rolleyes: ).
There is a powder in Germany "Gimpet Deo-Fresh" which additionally prevents odor in the litterbox. After cleaning we powder the litterbox before we fill the fresh litter in.

[Kirsten]

Well, the new litterboxes improved the situation - for one or two days! After that, she would go onto the guest couch again. I'm really lost here meanwhile, I have no idea what's bothering her. Since it has started when I lost my job, I still tend to think she cannot cope with the changes in our schedule. I think I will try Bach flower essences now - hope I can find a pharmacy that mixes them without alcohol.

Kirsten

[IttyBittyKitty]

When I lived at my Mum's we had two cats who spent the day outside and had a litter tray each inside. I noticed a couple of things -

Firstly, if the litter tray got "full" they immediately went elsewhere.

Secondly, no matter what the state of the litter tray was, if there was newspaper or plastic nearby they would urinate on it.

Thirdly, my younger kitty, Whiskey, used to use urination and even defecation as an act of defiance! Deny her food outside normal feeding times, keep her inside at night, move 1000 k's away - it was all a great excuse to use the shower as a bathroom! After I moved interstate, her problem became serious and she was doing it every day. Then, as time went on, she would do it less and less. My Mum solved that problem by being patient and keeping the bathroom door closed at all times!

My point is, often it is a mixture of behavioural issues (such as you present emotional situation and moving) and pragmatic issues (having a wonderful couch to pee on!) ... all you can do is continue your undying patience and try whatever you can!

All I can say is I'm glad your kitty has a wonderful and loving Mum who is willing to be patient and loving! :)

[emily_the_spoiled]

Hi, I understand your frustrations. I had the same problem with Emily for months after I got her. I tried everything (after two rounds of anti-biotics for a stubborn UTI).

I also had a couch that Emily peed on, so I ended up having to throw it out because it was sooooooo bad. I then rented a carpet cleaner and pre-treated the areas for animal stains. I then steam cleaned the carpet twice (just to be on the safe side). In the mean time I moved her litter box out of that room and kept it barricaded for quite awhile. I have also put another carpet (i.e., throw rug) over the "favorite" area.

Since I have done all of this things have mproved greatly. I thought she might start up again when I got a new kitten, but she didn't.

I have also found that the Woollite brand of animal stain remover works wonderfully for my guys.

Good luck, this will require plenty of patience but it will be worth it.

Cheryl

[kimlovescats]

Hi.... you've gotten some great advice here ..... I was thinking about your couch situation. If you can't afford to "trash" that couch ... maybe get it cleaned really well, or do it yourself then buy a slipcover for it? Maybe Luna couldn't smell the old stains through the slipcover???? I don't know but maybe worth a shot at not having to throw out a piece of furniture!!!?

:confused:

GOOD LUCK!!!

[ginbert]

I sympathize with your "smelly" problems. The least expensive and VERY effective way to get rid of urine smells (so you and kitty won't smell it anymore) is white vinegar. It can also be used to wash your litter boxes.
I think your couch is a lost cause though as the urine would have soaked all the way through.
Good luck.....Patience is a virtue.

[Kirsten]

Thanks everyone! :) Kind of helps a lot to know that I'm not the only one dealing with this "smelly problem".

Right, the couch is ruined, and I 've replaced the "seat" by a new mattress now which I have covered with synthetic leather so I have only to wash the blanket on the couch when another accident happens. I got a third litter box for Luna and put one of her boxes in another corner which she seems to prefer. She also gets a Bach flower treatment now. Little accidents still happen, but not as often as they used to.

Even though everyone thinks it's a protest thing, I had her urine checked at the vet's today and they found out she has a bladder infection and struvite crystals :( (see also http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?s=&postid=338433#post338433)
, so she's also getting an antibiotic treatment now. Hopefully this will help my little girl!

Kirsten

[emily_the_spoiled]

I am so glad that you had her checked out at the vet. Once the anti-biotics are finished you should start to notice an improvement ASAP.

[Kirsten]

That would be great! I still find it odd that these accidents only happen in the room where her litter boxes are. I always thought if she had bladder problems, she would lose urine everywhere. But I'm glad we found out about her probs!

Kirsten

[emily_the_spoiled]

When I went through the same thing with Emily, she would only go outside the box in the room where the box was (except the morning she went on the goose down duvet :rolleyes: ).

Just make sure to clean, clean, and clean some more. It takes alot to get the smell out.

If Luna develops diarrhea, give her some unflavoured yogurt to help her along.

Good luck

Cheryl

[Kirsten]

When I went through the same thing with Emily, she would only go outside the box in the room where the box was

This is exactly what Luna is doing!! Sometimes she would even start scratching in her boxes and then go somewhere else! Maybe the litter or the box are too uncomfortable for them when they are in pain and they look for a softer surface?

I also noticed that Luna uses a box only once (that's why she has three boxes meanwhile). I was thinking that maybe the bacteria are giving her urine another scent, so she doesn't like to use a box that smells like that?

However, I had a big cleaning session in her room yesterday, and it seems most of the smell is gone now!

Kirsten

[emily_the_spoiled]

I have been told that the problem is that the cat has a memory of the pain associated with using the litter box. (If you have ever had a UTI you know how painful that is.) So that is the reason that they will use a different spot each time they need to go.

Good luck with the cleaning today!!

[Kirsten]

That's an interesting theory, I was told the same by somebody else today, and I think you could be right. This also upsets me a bit 'cause that means that my Luna girl is really in pain! :( Hopefully these antibiotics will help her soon!

Kirsten

[pktdrgn]

My oldest cat would urinate in the sink or bathtub when she had a UTI, at least it was easy clean up for me, just not what you wanted to see first thing in the morning. It was easy to see, since she had blood in her urine. It may take retraining to get her to use the litterbox again after the UTI is gone, bad memories and such.

[emily_the_spoiled]

I guess I was lucky, once I did a thorough cleaning and moved the litter box to a different room, I never had problems with Emily again. But I am very careful to make sure to scoop every day and ensure that her drinking water is changed at least twice a day.

You should start to notice a difference with the anti-biotics within 48 hours. If there hasn't been ANY improvement within 5 days contact the vet again, you might need something else.

Good luck

[Kirsten]

Yes, I'm monitoring her very well now. Called the vet today 'cause Luna seems to avoid peeing (only went 4 times the last 24 hours, 3 times in her boxes, 1 time on the carpet. :eek: ), but the vet said that's not too dramatic. It's the third day she's on antibiotics now, and now she's getting diarrhea, which I believe comes from the pills.

I can pick up her diet food on Monday; I don't know what I'm getting but it's one that creates an acid PH value to destroy the crystals.

Kirsten

[emily_the_spoiled]

Well if sounds like she is starting to do a little better than before. Emily didn't have crystals so I have no idea what to expect with that.

If Luna likes unflavoured yogurt you can try to give her some of that for the diarrhea...

[Kirsten]

Yes, I'll try these yogurts, thanks for the advice. :) So far the diarrhea isn't too bad, but she pooped several times today and the stool is getting lose - I'm sure that's a side effect of the antibiotics.

I hope she's on her way to recovery now. The vet said that these struvite crystals might disappear with the diet, but her urine has to be checked regularily from now on. Don't want her to develop bladder stones. :(

Kirsten

[IttyBittyKitty]

I hope she gets better real soon!

There has been lots and lots of great advice so far, but I just wanted to add one thing - it may be an idea to buy her a brand new litter tray now, and another one when she gets better, so that she has a "fresh" start, and no longer associates it with pain and uncomfortable urination.

Although her little problem is annoying, it will be an excellent indicator in the future if the problem returns - as soon as she starts peeing on the couch again :eek: take her to the vet! :)

Lots of hugs 'n' headbumps to the Lovely Luna from the recently ill Pixel :):):)

[Kirsten]

Thanks! :) That's a good advice! I have just bought her two new boxes, and if the problems continue, I will get new ones after she is done with the treatment. At this point, it seems like she's doing a bit better, at least she's using her boxes for a couple of days now and did not pee on the couch again.

You're right, next time it happens I will immediately have her urine tested; at least I'll know in the future what's to do.

Hugs and headbumps back to little Pixel, how is she doing meanwhile? Is she doing better?

Kirsten

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

I'm so glad to hear poor little Luna is doing better. I hope the medicine does it's trick and she's back to normal in no time. You've gotten a lot of real good advice here, so I can't really think of anything to add.

Hugs and skritchies to little Luna, she's such a sweety. :)

[flossielarue]

My oldest cat, Ramona, has a history of peeing in inappropriate places, usually in the corners of the room. About a year or so ago, I had all the carpet removed in my entire house, and replaced with wood flooring. She still pees outside the box, but only very rarely. The vet checked her out physically, said nothing was wrong. He prescribed an anti-anxiety medicine, but I could never get her to take it. Maybe your kitty smells other cats that used to live in the apartment? Good luck with her, she sounds sweet. I'd definitely get rid of the smell couch, I think it just encourages her to keep peeing on it!