Birthing photos, WARNING live birth pics...rat kitten development day by day :)

[luckies4me]

Ok here is the thread lol...I kinda got carries away. Had to go play with Morgan before the sun went down...still cooking too lol. Huh me do too many things at once? Nah! :p


This is a pic I took this morning of her big tum tum.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/p2f5f0a2a8f549bc36626ecc722f437b9/fc5fc8b6.jpg

Here she is in labor. You can see the obvious bulge of the baby in her vagina.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/p481b72a7354c174e23695b3781887f6e/fc5fc80e.jpg

She kept pushing her feet against the glass while she was in labor. Poor girl, but she made it through ok. :)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/pcd251135603b8c2a126faf499d3e17a9/fc5fc7af.jpg

[luckies4me]

Here she is eating the placenta of the third kitten. She is SUCH a good mother. She cleaned the kittens so well and their bellies are full! :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/p0c1299a9bd16f24e9628c8dc177988c1/fc5fc83c.jpg

Here's one of the babies comming out of the birthing canal. Now that some were born she can actually clean herself "down there".
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/p9f870a8d97d70a82479f81d915a76cf1/fc5fc89d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/p8ae7a7fbcda80c2904b93819b22fa424/fc5fc8fd.jpg

In this pic you can see the umbilical cord...I will also attach this pic so you can see it more clearly, as IMGSTN blurrs the photos.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/p09b7b4d821107ccb89c08d7070f11e47/fc5fc85d.jpg

[wolfsoul]

Oooh she's such a fatty :p pretty prggers girl! :) I'm probably interupting your posting heehee, I'll stop now :p I'm guess that you are posting pics of the babies? Atleast you better be! :p

[wolfsoul]

OOOHH!!! I can see them now! :D So cute! What a nice mommy to them! ;) What colours/patterns do you think the kittens will be?

[luckies4me]

And finally the cutest pic of all, her nursing her babies. :D I'll take some better ones tomorrow when I can actually take the babies out for awhile.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/pc49777ce74fcee9002bb3caa76be5de2/fc5fc7dc.jpg


Hope you enjoyed them. I will post updates everyday so you can see how the babies develope and what not. :)

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
OOOHH!!! I can see them now! :D So cute! What a nice mommy to them! ;) What colours/patterns do you think the kittens will be?


They'll most likely be all selfs, and mostly agouti and fawn if that. Most are dark eyed so those are probably agouti babies. :) Half the litter will be velveteen, all dumbos.

[wolfsoul]

Awww I bet they will all be really cute! ;) I love velveteens!

[kingrattus]

WOW, that was neat!!
I missed all my rats & mice births, I really wanted to see one, but they never came until early in the mornings or when I was at school... But I'm glad I finally got to see what I've been missing & it was neat :D

U must be very proud of ur rattie :)

enjoy when they start bouncing around the cage & escape heheh.. chasing little ratties in ones bedroom is quite a pain :)

heheh

[RubyMutt]

Great photos! I especially love the last one of her nursing her new babies :) I can't wait to see more photos! :D Thanks for sharing!

[CathyBogart]

So darling!! I missed Zylle's labor, I found her eating the afterbirth once they had been born. ^_^

[Jessica12345]

adorible! congrats morgan on your new babies!:) your such a wonderful mommy!:D

[Ann]

Wow, that is way neat! I've never seen photos of a rat giving birth before, so thanks a ton for sharing!

Isn't it amazing how some people only see rats as evil rodents and then it's so obvious she's a caring and loving mother?

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Jessica12345
adorible! congrats morgan on your new babies!:) your such a wonderful mommy!:D


Morgan is my dog lol. The mother is Cinnabun. ;)

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Ann


Isn't it amazing how some people only see rats as evil rodents and then it's so obvious she's a caring and loving mother?


I know, it's very sad. She is a wonderful mother. I checked on them this morning and she is doing great. All the babies have nice milk bands and are very squiggly. It's amazing how loud they are even being so tiny.


I have yet to miss a birth...I almost missed one but saw the last of it. It still never ceases to amaze me though.


KingRattus,

Yes I know. The lovely Popcorn stage lol. Or what's really great is when they start hopping up on the side of the tank every time you open it hehe. As soon as they open their eyes they start their "tub" time. I take them out each day to spend two hours in the tub playing with tubes and stuff. It gets them used to seeing movement, being handled a lot more etc. Plus it makes for great pictures! :D


I'll be taking pictures of the babies later on today. It looks as if she had around 10-12 kittens. I can't wait til their fur comes in. :)

Thank you so much for this beautiful pictures:) :) ! They are precious! And the ratties are so sweet:)
Congrats!:D

[luckies4me]

Thanks LUT! I love hearing about your sweeties too. :)

[NoahsMommy]

Wow!! What cool pictures!!

I'm amazed that they instinctively know what to do, very neat.

How many babies did she have total?

[luckies4me]

I have to stop replying lol. She had I think between 10-12. I still need to count them all, which I will do shortly. :)

[tikeyas_mom]

That was so sweet, I loved the pics. I wish they were a bit more clear though. Oh well your rat is gunna make a great mommy :)

[RogueFerret]

Awww! They're so tiny and cute!:) Congratulations.

[luckies4me]

Ok the count is in, she had 11 babies. :D All have HUGE tummies lol. One of the babies is twice as big as all the rest and he looks so funny, he will be my keeper!


I took some great pics today of them. Up close too, they are so cute! :D Once I upload pics I will post, which should be in about 10 minutes or so. ;)

[luckies4me]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/ped4a01455e2f00ae534340743e4303f7/fc5e7def.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/pca61330b4adad299b18359e620bd79a2/fc5e805d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p6f4a11eb1123ad07df0074669a6c1845/fc5e7fef.jpg


Aren't they cute!?! :D I'll count the velveteens later, and also the sexes. ;)

[slick]

Awww look at the sweetie pies! Adorable. This thread is quite educational for me as I have never had rats or piggies but I love them just the same. Thanks. More pics please.

[luckies4me]

LOL I'll be taking pictures everyday so everyone here can watch them grow up. Plus it's a great thing to add to my rattery site.


They are pretty see through. You can see the stomach, the milk actually going through the esophagus, the heart, everything!:eek:

[tikeyas_mom]

how can you sex them so early?

[RubyMutt]

Aww, they are so adorable!!! :D

[petsbestern]

WOW! Those are the coolest pics! I've never seen ANYTHING like it! Its almost freaky how she gives birth! Woah! She looks so tired in the labor pic. What a good mom!

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Oh, this is so exciting! I'm so happy for you, and your sweet ratty! Do you get to hold tham? You probably do, but you probably have to be soooo gentle with them, being so tiny! More pictures, please!

I want a rat, do you have any good info about when they give birth? I want mine to have babies, if I get one! I'll have lots of research to do, before, though.

[wolfsoul]

Aww that's so cute!! :D Are you sure there won't be any marked kittens? It was probably just shadows, but I thought I saw some...;)

[tikeyas_mom]

How r u going to find good homes for 11 lil dumbos? I'll take 10. lol

[CathyBogart]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
how can you sex them so early?

I wish I had taken pics when Zylle had her litter, but basically....the males have a significantly wider space between their anus and...the other lump....the name of which eludes me...

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
Aww that's so cute!! :D Are you sure there won't be any marked kittens? It was probably just shadows, but I thought I saw some...;)


Markings aren't visible until they are around 3 days old, when you can start to see their color. Right now they are all pink except for the black eyed babies, which of course you can see their eye color.

As fas as I know, there are no marked rats in the background except an occasional irish. So most likely all will be selfs. What you see is their organs lol. ;) I guess there could be hooded, as Meeko through ONE hooded in his last litter lol.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
How r u going to find good homes for 11 lil dumbos? I'll take 10. lol


I don't breed a litter unless there is a demand for kittens or a certain color/coat type etc. All the babies have been reserved since before they were born. ;)

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by *LabLoverKEB*


I want a rat, do you have any good info about when they give birth? I want mine to have babies, if I get one! I'll have lots of research to do, before, though.


Well gestation usually last around 21-23 days. You would need to research genetics and if you want to breed I would start out with selfs in either dominant genes or simple recessives. Like if you like rex, you can breed a rex doe to a standard buck and you will get half rex. Of course this is not a guarantee as nature always plays out in it's own way.


You would be better off breeding something people want, like dumbos or blues. Placing a litter of all agouti or black standard babies is hard. This litter of mine was easy to place for a few reasons: 1- they are all dumbo 2- half are velveteens 3- not only agouti but fawn babies and a chance of blue agouti- 4- these babies carry mink, which is hard to find 5- litter is highly pedigreed and 6- both parents have great temperaments and are very healthy :)


A good breeding age for a first time breeding is around 4-8 months, but I prefer around 5-6 months of age. I only breed the does twice and then they are retired. If they are bred before 8 months they can safetly have a litter until they are around a year or so, but I wouldn't try it any laer than that.

If you want any more info I have TONS of links I will glady give you if you PM me. ;)

[luckies4me]

I will take more pics tomorrow. I held them today for a little bit but didn't want to touch them too much...I have a big fear of dropping them after I dropped a baby in my last litter. :( He survived but still....


Sex is very easy to determine like WolfChan explained, but I will try to get some good upclose pictures of them tomorrow side by side for comparison. ;)


We had pork chops tonight which were kinda fatty so my new momma is gonna have a good dinner lol. :D I am so proud of her! :D

[luckies4me]

WOW it's amazing how fast they grow! I am up...yuck! I will take pics as soon as Dan leaves for work. :D

They've grown so much already in just the one day. They are little piggies hehe. :p


Momma is doing good, although she isn't paying much attention to food. She did eat a little of her pork chop/pasta/corn dinner but there is still some left. She's drinking more than anything. I gave her some Nutristat though just in case she's not getting enough calories. The babies have so much milk in their tummies they look like they are going to explode hehe. :p

[luckies4me]

I am so in love with these little kiddos. I want to hold them forever but I know I need to put them back lol. Just me taking them out for 15 minutes made them act like they were starving, silly things. Man are they loud too! :eek:


This pic is my favorite..silly baby ratty. :p

1,2,3.....just...gotta...do...one...more..

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p734186c772ef3a417718cae65b3c0889/fc5d7cae.jpg

Now thier skin color is visible. Only two ruby eyed babies!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/pfa06750361a8ca36873d0de77f31fb1d/fc5d7cbd.jpg

All the babies together.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p962aff3254deac13807d18ceeed94d12/fc5d7c87.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p410c9d9f1be1bab9710b8566ff9c3af1/fc5d7c61.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p7599e83c2d07211690447ca210036b85/fc5d7c50.jpg

:D

[luckies4me]

Oh yes, there are 4 girls and the rest are boys!:eek: And four velveteens, the rest are standard coats. And I think there might be a blue in there! Yippeee!


Here's the new mommy!
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/pca416ca9139120457b91a4c3364dc2fb/fc5d7b92.jpg

[tikeyas_mom]

OMG they are so cute. I love them sop much. you are so lucky. I wish hamster pups could be held at 2 days old. :(. oh well, they are adorible :D I love them sooooooo much you should put the one pic of them all in your hand in your sig :) that would be cute ..

[luckies4me]

Wheeee! The coolest thing just happened right now! My neighbor rescued a rat! Yay! :D She's a blue dumbo berkshire and she's beautiful!!! Well the sex is still undetermined. The vet (one reason why I want to be a vet, because vets know nothing about rats!!!) told my neighbor that the rat was a boy and that they will neuter him tomorrow. Well I looked at the rat and he does not have testicles so he was probably already neutered. They are not retained because you would be able to palpate them. But get this, there is no vagina either! :eek:


So it's either a neutered male and a doe with no vagina....we are at a loss lol.


The rat is being treated with Baytril for a nasty abscess on it's neck. My friend works at a vets and the owner brought the rat in to be euthanized because it had the abscess, which is totally clearing up and isn't that bad anyway! :mad:

I am so glad my friend brought her home and saved her! The vet refused to euthanize the rat. I am taking my friend shopping tonight to make sure she gets the right supplies and food. This is so exciting! The rat looks just like Meeko except blue. :D

[luckies4me]

Oh yes the stupid lady who brought her in said the rat was three years old! Just by looking at her, body condition, fur, activity level, teeth etc. she looks no more than a year and a half. So I am assuming they just told the vet that so she would have a better chance of getting her put to sleep!:rolleyes: :mad:

[tikeyas_mom]

that is so good your firnd rescued the ratty. I think it is a fixed male. that is the only possible explaination. (sp?)

Is your friend gunna get it a friend? lol that sounded weired, lol I am happy she saved the ratty, good thing the vet never put the rat down eh?

[luckies4me]

Well the thing is I can usually tell when a male rat has been neutered by spacing, but this rat doesn't have much space between. But I am assuming that he's been neutered. ;)



Since the rat has been a loan rat all it's life I don't think introducing another rat would be in it's best interest.

[wolfsoul]

Wow that's great! I bet your friend is really happy about her new rat! :)

The babes are getting cute! Well, they look like little aliens, lol, but still cute! :p


I guess there could be hooded, as Meeko through ONE hooded in his last litter lol
I bet you were surprised! :D


LabLoverKEB, I want to own a rattery when I'm older :D But I know that Icarus may not last that long, and so I'm hoping to breed him while he's still young. I'm hoping that they can mate in the summer while the female is still young.I know the female that he will be bred with, who was bred straight from a rattery, and I already have reservatons. :D I'm proud lol. Icarus is perfect breeding stock, and a perfect pet! ;)

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

:eek: WOW
Momma rat had 11 babies!!!

how many babies are in a standard litter.... THAT IS A LOT OF LITTLE BABIES!!!!!:eek:

[CathyBogart]

Hehehe, my Zylle is finishing up raising fifteen!

[wolfsoul]

how many babies are in a standard litter....

I read that the average is six, but they can have up to 21 or 22 :)

[luckies4me]

My biggest litter was 14 I think...my smallest was three. :)


You should see the picture I have of Cocoa (another Cocoa, a stadard cinnamon dumbo, not my agouti girl ;) ) feeding three different litters. She had 28 babies total, hers, my Roxys and her sisters. She had pinkies, 1 week olds and 2 week olds lol. We only lost three and they were the runts....one died after weaning from a neurological disorder. :( But anyways, she had tons of milk and all the rest grew up healthy and happy. End of story lol.



This litter is doing wonderful! WolfChan how are your babies doing? I started a thread about my tortoise if you want to look, it's in Pet General. lol The pics are great. I will try to take some of Geicko later today.


The babies are SO big already!:eek: Their whiskers are easier to see now, with just a tiny hint of fuzz starting to grow. Their ears aren't as folded and they aren't as see through no more. I will update later with Day 3 pics! :D


haha guess what happened last night? My baby boys stayed the night in the kitchen and they got out of their cage. I woke up this morning and Dan says that they are running around the kitchen. So I get up and look and I go into the kitchen and they all come running to me lol with this look on their face like "Mom, we didn't do anything I promise" hehe. One look at their big bloated tummies and you can tell they got into the cat food! :rolleyes: So I'll have to fast them til noon to give their little tummies a chance to relax.

Thank goodness they came to me right away and they didn't get into trouble. Since they are out all the time they know to stay around the cage. This could have been a lot worse!:eek: The cats were inside and they just ignored them. :rolleyes: But that's one reason why I love my kitties! :D

[wolfsoul]

She had 28 babies total, hers, my Roxys and her sisters. She had pinkies, 1 week olds and 2 week olds lol. We only lost three and they were the runts....one died after weaning from a neurological disorder. But anyways, she had tons of milk and all the rest grew up healthy and happy. End of story lol.

My friend used to breed her rats, (well, try :rolleyes: ) and one of them had kittens around the same time her mouse also gave birth.
But her rats, for some reason, always abandoned their babies. She was always very careful not to stress them out, or touch them too soon, so we thought that it was odd :confused:
So she gave those 3 rat babies to her mouse, who of course, being a motherly mouse, took them in. They nursed with her the whole day, but she must not have had enough milk, because when my friend came home a couple days after, the rat kittens were pushed aside, dead :( It was really sad :(
I hope I have no problems with that happening. :eek: Although I've heard many stories of animals, even fixed ones, lactating for other animals, and so I always think that would be cool to happen incase one of my girls abandons her kittens :)

[tikeyas_mom]

a mouse mom is much to small to feed 3 hungrey baby rats, they were bound to die. She only could have a rat odoptant mommy not a mouse, it is just to much work for a small female mouse to handle.

[luckies4me]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p74861cd98029f1a2b440a8b0d6ff4d9b/fc5bca3d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p5e258312e508bb36b6daa1050de8b392/fc5bca3f.jpg

Sorry the pics are so blurry, they will be better tomorrow I promise ;) See how much darker they are today? Their ears are also starting to unfold. :D

[tikeyas_mom]

they are soo cute. :). how much do you sell them for?

[tikeyas_mom]

does your rat have enough nipples for all thoughs 11 babies?

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
they are soo cute. :). how much do you sell them for?


Dumbos sell for $25. If there were tailless they could be as much as $50 for a show quality buck. Their all sold though lol. :p

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
does your rat have enough nipples for all thoughs 11 babies?


Yep! Rats have twelve nipples so she has one extra. :D

[tikeyas_mom]

I dint know rats had 12 nipples. hamsters only have 8. :). what the heck it a tailless? they dont have tails?? :eek:

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

cute!!!!!!

earlier you said that they made a lot of noise.... what kind of noises do they make (i am sure this is a stupid question and the answer is squeaks..:o )

CUTE CUTE CUTE!!!!!!!!
:D

I LOVE THEIR LITTLE TAILS!!!!!

[luckies4me]

Nope tailless are tailless lol, no tails on those hamster butts! :D


Here is a pic of the first tailless baby born in my rattery...


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p8f8ff091590f44881d426971fe78d433/fd0c419d.jpg


Here is Dreamy. He is the father to a lot of my tailless carriers. I have since rehomed my tailless buck but will have a new boy this summer. :)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/p8c3f60a9faf704f1569a1d141c7b334a/fd0c419f.jpg

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
cute!!!!!!

earlier you said that they made a lot of noise.... what kind of noises do they make (i am sure this is a stupid question and the answer is squeaks..:o )



LOL Yes they sqeek and squeel lol. They are really really loud when they want to be, like when they are fighting over a nipple lol. :p

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

I can't believe how cute they are!! I have never gotten to see little baby mice before!! Thanks for sharing pics for us on this thread.... it is mind blowing how much they have grown in just a couple of days!! :D

[wolfsoul]

OOOHHH!! MANX BABY!! I want a tailless soo bad! Unfortunatly, it would be very difficult to get one around here :( Because there are no breeders in my area, I can't have any clue as to which rats here might carry the tailless gene :( I'm going to have to travel far to get some, lol. Same with odd eyeds. Want one reeeal bad! Do you have any odd eyed rats? :)


Dumbos sell for $25. If there were tailless they could be as much as $50 for a show quality buck. Their all sold though lol.
I always wondered what I should sell my rats for, when I'm older :confused: Rats aren't exactly the most popular thing around here, most people hate them :mad: , so I'm thinking of starting out a little cheaper and getting more expensive as they get more popular. I'm going to be selling to my friends before anyone else so they can spread the word for me :D
I wish that there were rat shows around here :( Then people would be more into it, and I could show my babies, it would be fun! My grandma is after me to start Kelowna's first rat club :rolleyes: Well, they do have dog clubs, so why not? :p Maybe lol

[luckies4me]

Tailless are very hard to come by and very hard to breed. They are NOT for everyone that's for sure. They can overheat very easily because they don't have a tail, and that is how ratties sweat. ;) yes I have oddeyes lol. It's just a white spotting gene, usually seen on high white rats such as blazes and split caps. Also tailless does cannot be bred due to possible birth complications. The mother can die. Inbreeding must be kept to a minimum because they can suffer birth defects such as spina befita, urinary and bowel troubles etc.


My rats sell pretty cheap compared to other breeders. Some regular ratties sell for as much as $35 dollars.


Have you studied genetics? I don't breed a litter unless I have a waiting list and almost all of my babies are sold before the litter is bred. How will you market your babies? I do not sell to petstores! My rats go to other breeders who I know, and who are experienced and to friends who I know and trust, or I keep themto furthur better my lines. Breeders mostly breed for themselves. Rat breeding cost a lot of money. I spend about 400 dollars a month on supplies. This does not include veterinary expenses. Just some things to think about before you start breeding. If you can't add anything to the fancy, you don't need to breed. I am very picky about who I breed. :)

[tikeyas_mom]

it is good to be picky though. :).

I woul love for there to be hamsteries around here lol, as if thats gunna happen. But hamsters are more popualr then dogs where I live. I put an add in the paper for my upcoming litter of pups and the phones were ringing off the hooks it was great. I had alot of good homes to choose from :).

[luckies4me]

Glad to hear that Tikeya! That is so great that you had a lot of people interested. ;) Good for you!

[tikeyas_mom]

I know it was amzing how many ppl wanted hamsters.

around 20 ppl called each litter. when only 3 survived it was hard to choose a owner.

[wolfsoul]

I would be very picky lol. I will sell to my friends and I will also put up ads, and the people that call I will have thoroughly checked out, lol, they will think I'm crazy lady :p


My rats sell pretty cheap compared to other breeders. Some regular ratties sell for as much as $35 dollars.
I know what you mean, this breed "had" to get rid of her rats so she sold them to my friend (then went out and bought a few more, even though she went on and on about money problems :mad: ) And she gave them to my friend on sale for 2 for 1. She payed forty dollars! So her original price is forty dollars a rat! I know it's worth it, but people like to back off when they hear numbers that high...I heard that no one even buys from her:eek:

I have studied genetics, but alot of it I find confusing :( My punnet squares do get complicated sometimes, ecspecially when a rat carries so many different things...I'll definatly need more help in that area lol

Don't worry, I would never ever sell to a petstore! They are evil...I went back there yesterday, and they still have two pregger does left, and I asked the lady when the kittens are due, and she didn't even know they were pregnant! I thought by now they would be well aware, ecspecially after I got POed and speeled at them for not seperating the litter :mad: I'm going to go to every petstore and buy their babies mwahaha! I'll keep some, and sell some (I can't afford them all lol)

If I have any questions about genetics, can I ask you? Cuz I have one...It's a little bit hard, because I'm not sure all of what Icarus carries :(
See, I'm going to be breeding Icarus in the summer (Not Frisco though...It would be waaaay irresponsible of me to do that..He's crazy lol:p) Icarus will be bred to a either a blue point or a chocolate point siamese. My friend won't decided which one she wants to be bred, lol. Both siameses are pureline, and were bred straight from ratteries with pedigrees going back to the 80s, so we know they are pureline from atleast that far back.
Icarus is an agouti hooded, and I know for sure that of the colours he carries fawn, and of the patterns he carries blazed and veriegated. But I'm not sure which ones are dominant and might show up in a litter, because it's so hard to find genetics on marked varieties on the net. Do you know what will definatly show up and might? Any opinions would be great :)

[tikeyas_mom]

witch one is Icarus and witch one it Frisco?

[wolfsoul]

Icarus is the agouti (brown) hooded and Frisco is the beige hooded ;)

[CathyBogart]

Your little ones are getting cuter by the day! Mine are ENORMOUS, and I only have homes for three so far. *sigh* It's so hard, and the litter was so unexpected....

I don't suppose you wany any agouti or black hoodie boys do you? LoL

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
If I have any questions about genetics, can I ask you? Cuz I have one...It's a little bit hard, because I'm not sure all of what Icarus carries :(
See, I'm going to be breeding Icarus in the summer (Not Frisco though...It would be waaaay irresponsible of me to do that..He's crazy lol:p) Icarus will be bred to a either a blue point or a chocolate point siamese. My friend won't decided which one she wants to be bred, lol. Both siameses are pureline, and were bred straight from ratteries with pedigrees going back to the 80s, so we know they are pureline from atleast that far back.
Icarus is an agouti hooded, and I know for sure that of the colours he carries fawn, and of the patterns he carries blazed and veriegated. But I'm not sure which ones are dominant and might show up in a litter, because it's so hard to find genetics on marked varieties on the net. Do you know what will definatly show up and might? Any opinions would be great :)

First off why do you want to breed him? I don't breed unless I have homes lined up beforehand. Like WolfChan stated, it can be VERY hard to place agouti and black babies!!!

There is no way to know what colors he carries unless you have a pedigree, and since you don't I wouldn't breed him to a pedigreed rat, especially one whos lines supposedly go that far. Who is this breeder? It is hard to find lines that go back that far.

Breeders spend years perfecting thier lines in both temperament and health, as well as color/coat type and body type. It would be irresponsible of you to breed your rat to a well pedigreed line because you will be losing all the work the breeder has put into the lines. What is so special about your rat? I will tell you now, he is not show quality in markings or body type. He is from unknown backgrounds which could cause serious problems later in the line. He may seem healthy now, but what if in a few months he gets a tumour or dies of cancer? All you have done, since you haven't improved body type and other things is just breeding tumours into the lines, which wouldn't be good.

Usually breeder rats are sold on contract, and if the breeder is letting you breed your rat to her well established lines it sounds like this breeder needs to sit down and think about what she is doing. Also chocolate point siamese are very hard to find, just chocolate is a hard to come by color. What rattery is this?

Also a rat can't carry fawn. They carry RED (red eye dilute) which turns black rats beige and agoutis fawn. Usually blazing is recessive. I highly doubt your rat carries chocolate but a lot of petstore rats carry siamese, so you will only get siamese IF your rat carries. If he carries chocolate or blue you will get some blues, some blacks and some agoutis. However all the babies will carry either blue or chocolate. If your rat carries siamese but not blue or chocolate he will only have agouti or seal point babies.


Also are you sure they are siamese and not himilayans? Siamese start out as beige then develope the points at around 6 weeks. Himis start out as PEWs and then get their points. Also it isn't good if you want to improve the siamese, to breed a hooded rat to a siamese because you will just be creating non show siamese. Show siamese have ALL points, and preferably no white toes. Siamese and himis are just selfs, but the color only developes on the points. So if you don't have a great self to breed to a siamese, there is no reason to do it at all.

If you really are set on breeding your rat breed him to another rat who will be a better fit. Like a black self, a blue self etc. So at least the babies will carry blue. And if you aren't keen on genetics than I would stay away from marked rats for now.

Again, it also cost a lot of money to breed. What happens if the doe needs a Csection? It costs a lot of money to feed a whole litter after they are weaned. Do you have cages to seperate sexes? If you have your heart set on breeding, save up your money, and buy some good breeder rats to start with. Also if there are no ratteries around you, how did your friend get these nice pedigreed rats? :confused:

I know you have stated several times that you cannot take your rats to the vet. You should wait until you are out on your own and able to give your ratties medical attention before breeding. That would not be responsible to breed without having the proper funds to do so. Trust me, I have been in that situation before, I stopped breeding until I knew I was able to afford the time money and socialization the animals needed from me.

[wolfsoul]

We have homes lined up already :) otherwise we wouldn't be breeding ;) I'm going to try and keep one myself, it would be nice to have Icarus's little guy runnin' around :p


Also are you sure they are siamese and not himilayans?
Oops, one is a siamese and the other is himilayan, I'm used of calling them both siamese cuz my friend used to think that's what they were (I haven't seen them yet, she lives in Campbell River).


What rattery is this?
Not a very good one :rolleyes: She didn't actually know for sure if my friend's rat is actually a blue point, she only guessd, and my friend doesn't have the interenet to check :( She also told me that she needed to get rid of these baby rats very bad, and so I told my friend about them who bought them. Then the breeder went out the same week and about the week after and got some more rats, even though she complained to me about her money problems :mad: I don't think her rattery even has a name..

Ahk, I have to go I'll reply later lol. I know that Icarus may not breed the prettiest of rats, but that shouldn't matter to anyone, we don't even have any rat shows or clubs around here. And even if he does breed sick rats, we will know because I know the people that I'm giving the babies to, and they will let me know about anything. :)

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by luckies4me
They can overheat very easily because they don't have a tail, and that is how ratties sweat. ;)

:confused: Rats sweat through their feet, they regulate their body temp. through their tail. At least that is what I have read all over the internet. :confused:

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
:confused: Rats sweat through their feet, they regulate their body temp. through their tail. At least that is what I have read all over the internet. :confused: Yes that is what I meant to say. That is why if a rattie is hot it will lay with it's feeties in the air. ;) But yes you are right about that.

[Desert Arabian]

I remember when Oreo, Skittles, and Nugget had babies. It was the coolest experience. I was so proud of my babies. Oreo had 9 babies, Skittles had 7, and Nugget had 9. I remember I'd be falling a sleep, but couldn't because they were squeeking and squealing all the time. :D :D. OMG- and when their eyes opened, and they started running around all the time like spazzes..that was so awsome to watch! I miss all the babies, I would have kept all of them if mom let me. :p :p :D :D

Skittles had two russian blue (I believe that's the color) dumbo boys, oh how I wanted to keep them so bad, but mom said no to keeping boys (didn't think of neutering option at that time.) :( Ah well, I have 8 other ratties so I'm happy, hehe.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
I remember when Oreo, Skittles, and Nugget had babies. It was the coolest experience. I was so proud of my babies. Oreo had 9 babies, Skittles had 7, and Nugget had 9. I remember I'd be falling a sleep, but couldn't because they were squeeking and squealing all the time. :D :D. OMG- and when their eyes opened, and they started running around all the time like spazzes..that was so awsome to watch! I miss all the babies, I would have kept all of them if mom let me. :p :p :D :D

Skittles had two russian blue (I believe that's the color) dumbo boys, oh how I wanted to keep them so bad, but mom said no to keeping boys (didn't think of neutering option at that time.) :( Ah well, I have 8 other ratties so I'm happy, hehe.


Do you have any pictures of the RB dumbo babies?


Yep, as soon as their eyes open they all of a sudden run around like a mad man hehe. It's really amazing that all it takes is for their eyes to open and then their activity level increases three fold.


Well I am off to take pictures of Day 4! :D and then to cook lunch...but I will try to post pics first.

[luckies4me]

Well I took a bunch of pics and only ONE came out ok. So I am attaching it. I tried to upload it to IS but it turned out too blurry from the upload so this way it will be clearer. :) See how much darker they are today?

[wolfsoul]

Aww they are so cute! :)

Ok, to continue my other post that got cut short, lol, I was going to say that my friends would tell me if anything was wrong with the babies so I would know not to keep Icarus's line. I also think it's good to breed atleast once before I know that I want it for life, otherwise I may not know what I'm getting myself into :p

[RubyMutt]

Wow, they are a lot darker! :) What cuties!

[tikeyas_mom]

at what age do they start to develope their hair? and open their eyes? and eat solids?

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by tikeyas_mom
at what age do they start to develope their hair? and open their eyes? and eat solids?



They should start getting their fur fairly soon...they have a tiny bit of fuzz but that's it. They open their eyes at around two weeks of age and about that time start sampling food, but they really don't start eating until around 3 weeks and can be safely weened at 4 weeks, although I keep my girls with the mom until they are between 5 and 6 weeks. :)


They do though already have whiskers and are born with them, which is how I can tell I have four velveteens. Their whiskers are curly instead of straight.


Also I did a recount on the sexes and I only have three girls!:eek: :D

[CathyBogart]

Aha! The mystery of the disappearing testicles!

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by WolfChan
Aha! The mystery of the disappearing testicles!


Actually in this case, it would be the testicles appearing lol! :p I usually do not have a set count until they are around two weeks when I can safely say that count is correct. As we know the males can retaintheir testicles for a LONG time lol! :eek:

[CathyBogart]

LOL yes, poor Ruthie learned that the hard way.... *hugs Ruthie*

[luckies4me]

hehe :p


BTW WolfChan I got the job!!!! :D

[tikeyas_mom]

what job?

when do male rats become sexually mature?

[CathyBogart]

All RIGHT!! Congrats Luckies!!

Male rats can become sexually active as early as 6 weeks, I believe. (Is this right Luckies?)

[luckies4me]

Yep that's right! Thanks BTW ! :D


I think I might have a new ratty vet! :D

[luckies4me]

Day 5


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/p3c70100dec4e4b9ac4c5f974af7ec5dd/fc58aacc.jpg

Day 6

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/pbd92767f720eaa545e74c90799b184b0/fc58aacf.jpg

:D

[wolfsoul]

Aww, they are getting bigger! And darker!

[tikeyas_mom]

their skin colors are awsome. The teo pink ones stand out so well among the others. I love the pics :). you should post most of babies and mom . :)