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momoffuzzyfaces
04-07-2003, 01:10 PM
Just want to let every one know that FOX news is reporting that chemical WMD have for sure been found.

Logan
04-07-2003, 01:56 PM
I heard/read that, Connie! Can't believe that I am relieved, but I am. I guess, at the least, it adds some validity to what President Bush was saying all along. I KNEW there was something to this whole thing, regardless of the nay-sayers.

Logan

mugsy
04-07-2003, 01:58 PM
Yeah for them!! Way to go! Logan, I agree, I always felt that they were there but were overlooked (convienently or not). I'm sure glad they found some.

Pam
04-07-2003, 02:36 PM
I just heard this on my car radio on the way home. I am only hoping that none of this stash has already been given to terrorists or the Bin Laden network.

momoffuzzyfaces
04-07-2003, 03:06 PM
They say it looks like a nerve agent and one that causes blistering. I can't remember the names and probably couldn't spell them anyway. There were several of them. Of course, some channels are saying this is just a pesticide. The WMD report came from top defense officials though. We'll just have to wait and see.

lovemyshiba
04-07-2003, 03:27 PM
it's weird to say (type) this, but I am glad they were found--makes the whole effort worth it in a way--that was the original goal, correct--to find the hidden WMD?? And give the Iraqi people a new government, I know, but wasn't the WMD what the UN was supposed to be looking for??

Dakota's Mommy
04-07-2003, 03:39 PM
A friend told me that, lets just hope that we got ahold of them in time and that they this type of weapons are not used against our troops or anybody else!

I guess one way that I look at it as that most other countries thought we weren't for real about them having these type of weapons, now we finally have proof! That's the only thing I'm happy about with them being found in their country!

sammi
04-07-2003, 03:46 PM
I guess The President and the goverment had it right all along. I hope it all has been found in time. Guess I feel like the others - too bad they had it at all - but so happy we found it!!!!!!!!

tatsxxx11
04-07-2003, 04:30 PM
NBC reports that it is confirmed, but the Defense Dept. wants to wait for furthering "gold standard" testing before confirming. At least a bit of vindication, although the U.S. and Britain are maintaining a strict chain of custody so to speak to defend against any accustions of having planted it. Several of the troops are being treated for symptoms of exposure (Reportedly minor)

I heard Mustard gas, Sarin and another chemical I can't think of at the moment. Sarin is a nerve agent; Mustard Gas a blistering agent

Description:
Sarin was developed in 1938 in Germany as a pesticide. Sarin is a colorless gas and colourless to pale yellow liquid. The released vapor, because it is slightly heavier than air, hovers close to the ground. Under wet and humid weather conditions, Sarin degrades swiftly, but as the temperature rises up to a certain point, Sarin's lethal duration increases, despite the humidity. Sarin is a lethal cholinesterase inhibitor. Very small doses are needed to kill humans.

Mustard Gas (Yperite) was first used by the German Army in September 1917. The most lethal of all the poisonous chemicals used during the war, it was almost odourless and took twelve hours to take effect. Yperite was so powerful that only small amounts had to be added to high explosive shells to be effective. Once in the soil, mustard gas remained active for several weeks.

The skin of victims of mustard gas blistered, the eyes became very sore and they began to vomit. Mustard gas caused internal and external bleeding and attacked the bronchial tubes, stripping off the mucous membrane. This was extremely painful and most soldiers had to be strapped to their beds. It usually took a person four or five weeks to die of mustard gas poisoning.

jackiesdaisy1935
04-07-2003, 07:28 PM
Well in reporting that they do have WMD and that is such a scary thought, can one imagine what they would do with them? I don't think it would be for protection. I'm just glad that they haven't used them on the troops to date, and lets hope they are destroyed as soon as possible. From the news I see, it seems the people of Iraq are happy to see the troops and looking forward to a better life without Saddam.
Jackie, Perry and Miss Daisy

petsbestern
04-07-2003, 07:38 PM
Its not confirmed. At least according to CNN, which I believe is more reliable. Its supected material that is being tested to see if it has chemical agents. http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/07/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html
We will see if its confirmed in the future, but for now, it isn't. Just suspicious material.

momoffuzzyfaces
04-07-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by petsbestern
Its not confirmed. At least according to CNN, which I believe is more reliable.
CNN isn't really any more reliable than any other network. They're just in a snit because FOX got the story first. But, like you said, we will just have to wait and see.

mugsy
04-07-2003, 08:59 PM
CNN is hardly a reliable source. Of the major news networks they would be at the bottom of the list. I find Fox to be the most reliable, with MSNBC second, CBS, etc etc etc.

I believe now all, with the possible exception of CNN has said that it's true. I've heard it at least 4 different times on 4 different networks both radio and tv.

iceyshiver21
04-07-2003, 10:12 PM
Thank you tatsxxx11 for sharing what those chemicals can do!! I would hate to think that any of them would be used on our people LET ALONE ANYONE.

****Im glad they found those Chemicals!! It kinda serves to having way more of a porpose for being there

I listen to them all and then go with what I think is more sensable and then the majority. But mostly CNN, FOX and NBC are what I hear, mostly FOX because its the only one I can find that cover the war ALL DAY!!

Soledad
04-07-2003, 10:15 PM
"CNN is hardly a reliable source. Of the major news networks they would be at the bottom of the list. "

Why is this? I don't care much for CNN myself, but I'm curious as to why you feel FOX is better when it's mostly entertainment oriented.

iceyshiver21
04-07-2003, 10:22 PM
What do you use to find out war happinings??:confused:

Soledad
04-07-2003, 10:31 PM
I use a lot of online newspapers and magazines. I also like to watch BBC of all of the news programmes. But I also do read quite a bit (online and off).

babolaypo65
04-07-2003, 10:35 PM
I use BBC (Online) and CNN (online). and the washingtonpost.com.
unlike some here, while i dont always LIKE cnn (especially on 9/11) i can tolerate the commentary more than i can with FOX.

but, most important, when i hear a report like the one that they've found chemical weapons, i check it with several sources.

iceyshiver, i continue to be impressed with your thoughtfulness, and maturity!

iceyshiver21
04-07-2003, 10:36 PM
Oh, ok, thats what my friend does, I tend to listen to the tv more but from MSNBC I get little alerts on my messanger. I mostly like the pics on the internet, I save them by the millions just because they fasinate me.

Cincy'sMom
04-07-2003, 10:36 PM
Since I do not have internet access at work, during the day I listen to NPR when I want an update.

yorkster
04-07-2003, 10:44 PM
I listen to NPR also, and also the Canadian TV news channels that we have so much of here since we are so close.

babolaypo65
04-07-2003, 10:47 PM
NPR is a great choice. I listen to it at work, since i don't have tv there.

a good example of when i look around: right now. its 850pm (mountain time) fox is saying Hussein may well have recently been killed in a bombing (with his sons). i'm now checking all my other "choices" to see if I can get a better sense of things...

I miss canadian tv. I get Univision (spanish language tv) here.... and it's pretty good, a bit more neutral in some ways...

yorkster
04-07-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
NPR is a great choice. I listen to it at work, since i don't have tv there.

a good example of when i look around: right now. its 850pm (mountain time) fox is saying Hussein may well have recently been killed in a bombing (with his sons). i'm now checking all my other "choices" to see if I can get a better sense of things...

I miss canadian tv. I get Univision (spanish language tv) here.... and it's pretty good, a bit more neutral in some ways...


YUP! that's a lot of the reason I like it. :)

Soledad
04-07-2003, 11:16 PM
FOX is great at infotainment. It's so reactionary and very biased.

babolaypo65
04-07-2003, 11:19 PM
i have this strange "thing" for peter mansbridge, from the CBC.


Originally posted by yorkster
YUP! that's a lot of the reason I like it. :)

yorkster
04-07-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by babolaypo65
i have this strange "thing" for peter mansbridge, from the CBC.

:D :D :D

Soledad
04-08-2003, 12:10 AM
Just read that the WMD are pesticides.


"Smoking gun" WMD site in Iraq turns out to contain pesticide

NEAR NAJAF, Iraq (AFP) - A facility near Baghdad that a US officer had claimed might finally be "smoking gun" evidence of Iraqi chemical weapons production turned out to contain pesticide, not sarin gas as originally thought.

A military intelligence officer for the US 101st Airborne Division's aviation brigade, Captain Adam Mastrianni, told AFP that comprehensive tests Monday determined the presence of the pesticide compounds.


Initial tests had reportedly detected traces of sarin -- a powerful toxin that quickly affects the nervous system -- after US soldiers guarding the facility near Hindiyah, 100 kilometres (60 miles) south of Baghdad, became ill.


Mastrianni said: "They thought it was a nerve agent. That's what it tested. But it is pesticide."

He said a "theatre-level chemical testing team" made up of biologists and chemists had disproved the preliminary field tests results and established that pesticide was in fact the substance involved.


Mastrianni added that the dozen sick soldiers, who had become nauseated, dizzy and developed skin blotches, had all recovered.


The belated correction was an embarrassment for the US forces in the region, who had been quick to say that they thought they had finally found the proof they have been actively looking for, that Iraq (news - web sites) was hiding weapons of mass destruction.


A spokesman for the US army's 3rd Infantry Division, Major Ross Coffman, had told journalists at Baghdad's airport that the site "could be a smoking gun".


"We are talking about finding a site of possible weapons of mass destruction," he had added.


But in Qatar, where the US Central Command (CentCom) is directing the US-led invasion of Iraq, officials had been much more cautious.


"We don't have any extraordinary finds at this point while we're still looking," CentCom spokesman US Brigadier General Vincent Brooks told a news briefing.


He expressed confidence that the US forces would eventually find the proof they were looking for.


Troops, he said, would be increasingly investigating suspected sites, both ones that have been identified beforehand, and others "that can be done on an ad hoc basis where we find some piece of information we didn't previously have -- and frankly we expect there will be a lot of that."


In a further sign that US commanders are unconcerned about an Iraqi nuclear, biological or chemical attack, they ordered forces near Baghdad on Monday to shed their protective gear.


"It's great to have them off," Lieutenant Colonel Fred Padilla, commander of the 1st Marines Battalion, said after his troops stripped down to lighter camouflage garb.


Padilla said an order to take off the cumbersome and hot protection suits had come down from his superiors.


"They made an assessment and they determined there was not a serious threat right now," he said.

KYS
04-08-2003, 08:54 AM
Brig. Gen. Brooks (central command briefing in Qatar),
is now answering questions from the press.
He was asked about chemicals being found.
As of today chemicals of mass destruction is "suspected"
and still being tested.

Chemicals were not only found in Kabala but other areas also
including Hindiya (sp).

So in my opinion, before everybody jumps the gun about whether or not we have a "smoking gun", you will have to wait till the "official report comes in".

Fox news is as reliable as, any of the main stream news source's for information on the Iraq war.
(As for being biased! What news station/or paper isn't!)

In my opionion the news stations/papers I personaly
would be weary of, would be the ones that are so biased that they report a "one-sided" news, purposely stretch the truth/or lie.

JMHO
__________________

tatsxxx11
04-08-2003, 10:01 AM
I believe the final determination re: whether or not WMD have been found has yet to be determined. What I find most intriguing is that this chemical "find" was situtated adjacent to a military training camp/firing range, replete with a huge cache of artillery, ammunition, weapons, etc.

Many of the cannisters labled "pesticide" were found in open areas, leading many to conclude that this was merely an innocent storage site for legitimate agricultural pesticides. Interesting that pestiticides intended for benign application, would just happen to be stored next to a military camp. And even more interesting to note that other barrels would be found hidden from view, in deep, freshly dug trenches, covered by natural camfolague. And I think it's important to note as well that being labled a "pesticide," does not automically vindicate it's use as a WMD. In fact, many of the chemcials notably used in WMD are materials found in commonly used agricultural pesticides. It is the concentration that most often reveals it's intended use. In this case, intitial tests performed at the site revealed a concentration far above the normal range for legitimate agricultural use.

Regradless of whether this particular discovery proves to be WMD or not, no one can deny the fact that historically Saddam has manufactured, stored and has used with impunity, such chemical and biological agents. Again, let us reference that virtuous, august body, that paragon of pure truth, the U.N., and their recent report on the status of Iraq's possession of WMD. As reported in the article cited below:

"Inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission, or UNSCOM, destroyed some 76 tons of Iraqi tabun and 40 tons of sarin in the 1990s. But UNSCOM reported in 1999 that it could not account for all the nerve agent known to have been produced, nor for all the thousands of 122mm rockets known to have been filled with sarin."


Whatever one's stance on this war, it seems to me disingenuous for anyone to doubt their existence. Whether they will ever be found or not remains to be seen.

Here's what today's Washington Post reports.

Washington Post Reports on Chemical Find-/08/03 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52107-2003Apr7.html)

KYS
04-08-2003, 10:34 AM
Tats: Regradless of whether this particular discovery proves to be WMD or not, no one can deny the fact that historically Saddam has manufactured, stored and has used with impunity, such chemical and biological agents.>>>>>>

Not only that Sandra, but their is enough world intelligents
information, adding that to the information they
are finding in Iraq will prove WMD whether the "smoking
gun is found in Iraq or not."
It has already been proven, in the past that Sadaam had his books illegally doctored and the UN inspectores were
fooled.
In my opinion, it sure would be nice to see WMD found,
and I have a feeling it will.

tatsxxx11
04-08-2003, 10:54 AM
I agree Karen! Unfortunately, most of the world is still waiting for us to offer up some tangible evidence. Sad to think how many around the world are desperately hoping the coalition will fail in this endevour so as to bolster their "case" against the U.S.
Several former UNSCOM head inspectors have recently expressed their opinions that without question, these agents are being hidden by the regime and will eventually be found somewhere. As the U.N. report stated in 1999, Iraq had to date, yet to account for a myriad of chemical weapons known to be in their possession. What has happened to them? Where are they? If they no longer existed, as was the Iraqi's claim, U.N. inspectors required that the Iraqi govt. provide to UNSCOM proof of their destruction, e.g. provide written documentation of their erradication, show them the sites where they were discarded, dumped, etc. So, why didn't he??

momoffuzzyfaces
04-08-2003, 12:45 PM
Um, pesticide can kill people too!!!
IF the substance turns out to be pesticide, that doesn't explain why they found 20 missiles with it in their warheads. No bug on earth is so big it needs a missile fired at it.

iceyshiver21
04-08-2003, 04:41 PM
Pesticide can be used for alot of things......take some time and think on that.....

Soledad
04-08-2003, 05:57 PM
Um, bleach can also be used to kill people. What are you going to do? Ban bleach and pesticides from countries you don't like?

Pesticides are hardly WMD.

I have no doubt Saddam is a ruthless thug. I know he's killed hundreds of thousands (not to mention torture and rape), and I don't doubt we'll find stuff when this war is over. But let's not jump the gun.:rolleyes:

tatsxxx11
04-08-2003, 07:40 PM
Actually, there is no one compound that defines "pesticide.." How one defines pests is another "pesky" problem.


pes·ti·cide n. A chemical used to kill pests, especially insects. –pesti·cidal adj.

To the home landscaper, a grub might be considered a pest; to Saddam, perhaps Kurds??? I wonder why those non-sensical landscapers, applying relatively low levels of "pesticide" around town, ever bother to don those rubber boots, gloves, masks, and are required by law to notify all abutting homes of their intention to apply pesticides in the area. Having a degree in both botany and ornamental horticulture I know very well the dangers of "mere" pesticides. No need to heed the warning of the mandatory warning they leave behind, staked in the lawn...."Danger Pesticide Applied"

As for bleach!!!.....Ah, yes, that oldie but goodie. The "mother" of all WMD. In fact, the history of chemcial warfare can be traced back to German chemist Fritz Haber, who has been "credited" with with developing the first poison gases for Germany during WWI. The Germans conducted the first chlorine gas attack on April 22, 1915, against the French troops facing them at Ypres in Belgium. They set up 5,730 cylinders of chlorine gas and opened up the valves and 180 tons of gas were released into the air. After two days, 5,000 were dead and over 10,000 disabled, more than half of them permanently.



1. 1 cup of "bleach" added to an average sized load of laundry makes my whites white!


2. At 30 parts of chlorine to one million parts of air, chlorine is a nasty irritant that causes harsh coughing and severe eye irritation.

3. At 1,000 parts per million parts of air, chlorine is lethal, causing blindness and stripping the lining from the lungs and causing victims to drown in their own fluids.

As with so many things in life, it's all a matter of degreee, intention and application.

Just bleach????????

Soledad
04-08-2003, 07:44 PM
I think what I am getting at is how does one ban other countries from having bleach and pesticides. It's ludicrous. Why not wait for some more compelling evidence.:rolleyes:

iceyshiver21
04-08-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Soledad
I think what I am getting at is how does one ban other countries from having bleach and pesticides. It's ludicrous. Why not wait for some more compelling evidence.:rolleyes:

Know one said to ban it as far as I know, although I may have missed it....and yes there is no right way to ban them.....but ya gotta wonder these chems are in the hands of a mad man, and what are they doing near a training camp?!?!

iceyshiver21
04-08-2003, 07:52 PM
Didnt sombody say somthing about that they where buried?? Why would you do that?

tatsxxx11
04-08-2003, 07:57 PM
I am waiting... drawing no conclusions here without further testing. Just trying to make the point that even seemingly "innocuous" agents can have ominous applications. And of course I agree, bleach, pesticides, et.al, utilized in the conventional means, cannot/need not be banned! Persons having the intent of causing deliberate harm through the use of these agents, should be banned. As I said, it's a matter of concentration, intention and application. In this case, I found that the circumstances surrounding their discovery, e.g. where they found, having been hidden in trenches, etc. lent intrigue to the calculus.

momoffuzzyfaces
04-10-2003, 03:51 PM
FOX news is reporting the find of a POSSIBLE rolling Bio-chem lab. They've found a truck with false sides and very interesting things inside. There are also some funny things happening around a underground nuclear power facility. There is also a mention of plutonium which they aren't supposed to have. Three building have been found with so much radiation that humans can't enter them. Just thought some of you might be interested.

Logan
04-10-2003, 04:12 PM
I am interested, Connie. Thanks for bringing that to our attention since I don't have the tv on while I'm working. I have no doubt that they will find them. It may just take a while.

Logan