Need advice about Tina, please...

[Ann]

Our beloved dog Tina, a 12 year old Golden Retriever, is not doing so well. There isn't a day that she doesn't pee or poop inside and it is obvious that she cannot control it herself at all anymore. She can just be walking around and peeing at the same time, seemingly oblivious to what she's doing. We're basically talking about putting her to sleep everyday now, but I just can't handle it... I hardly understand that she might not be here for much longer. I just can't realize it, I can't even cry about it! I just sit here, without knowing what to do and without even being able to cry or vent my emotions. I mean, maybe she isn't suffering? She just can't control her pee and poop organs, she's still a good and happy dog! Maybe she can live for many more years! I can deal with wiping up her stuff everyday, as long as I can have her with me! But then there's this little evil voice telling me that it's cruel to keep her like this and God I just don't know what to do. Even now, when all I fell like doing is banging my head against my keyboard and screaming I can't cry! I don't know what to do anymore...

Answer me this, please: Is it cruel to Tina to keep her when she's like this?

[lizbud]

Would any decision be entirely yours ,or your parents,
or both?

[tatsxxx11]

Oh Ann............:( Your Tina has always been one of my favorite PT Goldens; such a beautiful girl. It breaks my heart to read how very sad you are. When did her potty issues start? Have you talked to her vet? I'm thinking that otherwise she is healthy and doing ok; active and happy? When our doggies get older, (as with humans!!) it gets harder for them to "hold it" and control their bodily functions. Have you tried adjusting her feeding schedule and her free access to water, like taking the water bowl up after dinner time? Taking her out frequently? I think perhaps she gets lots of outdoor time already. Has she had any change in her diet that make her poop more often? Why not repost this in Dog Health so that a lot more of the dog people will see it. I'm sure a lot of people will want to offer their help and support. It's breaking my heart to hear how sad you are:(

[Logan]

We are dealing with some of the same issues, but not on the frequent level you are. If she is otherwise happy, and your vet has found no other reason for this to be happening, I have to think that keeping Tina in spaces where she can't cause so much damage, and loving her to death, is the answer. But Liz is right....it may be up to your parents. She is so beautiful, Ann, and I just love her, every time I see her picture or hear about her.

I don't know what else to suggest, but just know that we hope there is some kind of happy medium here, so you don't have to put an otherwise healthy dog down.

Much love to Tina and you.
Logan

[popcornbird]

Oh Ann. :( Tina is my absolute favorite golden on PT. It breaks my heart to know how very sad you are about her. :(

Maybe you should talk to the vet, and if she's fine otherwise, perhaps keep her in a room where there in floor, so its easier to clean. I hope you won't have to put her down. She is such a sweet pup. :( Good luck, and get well some beautiful Tina!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Oh Ann...other than the advise to take her to a vet I'm sorry I have none to offer. I just want you to know my heart aches for you right now. This is such a difficult time for you!

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

I'm so sorry to hear about your doggie. She's beautiful and matches so well with your kitty.

I thought I saw this somewhere, but don't remember where or if this would even pertain, but don't they make what could be called "Doggy Diapers"? I thought I saw them, maybe at PetSmart or something and they were advertised as to be used when you knew you were going to be gone for longer than normal or something like that.

I do know they make...well....I think they're equivalent to sanitary pads :o ....but they're a pad you would put on the floor where the dog is and it would absorb everything. It's sort of like the pads they put underneath patients in the hospital in case the patient has an accident in bed it won't ruin the sheets and mattress and everything.

I don't know, maybe I'm way off base, but it might be something to look into.

And as for your question, as long as she's healthy in every other way, and happy, I don't think it's cruel to keep her around. Almost quite the opposite, it would be a shame to put her to sleep just because she can't control herself. Maybe you should talk to K & L, they have the same problem with their kitty, Porch, and you might be able to help each other out somehow.

Anyway, I'm so sorry, and hopefully you will find some solution so you can keep Tina around to give her lots more lovin'.

[KYS]

Ann I was thinking about the doggie diapers too.
Might want to talk to your vet too, and see
if they can offer any suggestions.
We had a senior large dog, that when she
could no longer controll her poop or bladder.
We made an area for her in the house that
was blocked off, where she could sleep.
During the day if we were not home
we kept her in the back yard.
(I live in Calif. where the days are never
to cold)

I agree if her quality of life is still good and she
is not suffering than I would wait.

What ever you decide is best fo your girl we
will all support you.

[Jessica12345]

ah ann, im so sorry to hear about tina:( She is such a gorgeous gal. :(

I agree that you should talk to the vet about her. :( If she is misserable, and you cant do anything about it, i would probibly put her down. although if she was my dog, i dont think i would be able to bear it either.:( again im terribly sorry to hear about this. let us know how it goes...:(

[joycenalex]

first off, what does the vet say is causing the problems? is her food different, a food formula change or brand that is too high in fiber for a senior dog. has the vet checked for worms of some type in her stool? some dogs can develope digestive issues as they age and a diet change helps alot.
on the urination problem, my senior golden, a male, duke has a slight case of the 'dribbles'. after checking to make sure that he didn't have a bladder infection, he was put on a medicine to tighten the uretheral sphincter, the tube that leads from the bladder to the outside. the urethra in females(of all mammal spiecies) is very short compared to males. the medicine that duke takes is PHENYLPROPANOLAMINE, know in short form as PPA. it's pretty cheap, i don't spend more then $20/month on it, and it has been a blessing for the sweet old boy. i hope something works for your fur baby, duke sends golden wags

[Songlover]

Ann, have you had a complete evaluation done by a veterinarian? If not, it might be something to think about before considering euthanasia.

There are so many things that could be causing these problems: a bladder or urinary tract infection, for example, or CUSHINGS Disease, a more complicated condition, but one which does sometimes respond to medication. Also, many older animals suffer from diabtetes and this can be controlled with insulin. (one of the symptoms is almost constant urination).

I hope you will consider a medical evaluation before putting your dog down. If something can be done, I am sure you will do it, as I have noticed that your posts have always been of a very caring nature...just my humble opinion and advice, for what it is worth.

Regards from Deborah in Montreal...where it is still freezing and we are currently awaiting 20 cm of snow!!! Can you believe it??? :eek:

[anna_66]

I was hoping after I got your last email that Tina was still doing better, so sad to hear she's not.
I hope you take the advice that the others have given about getting an evaluation for her. You never know, it could be something that could be very easily taken care of. Please keep us updated on her condition. You will both be in my thoughts.
Anna

[ChrisH]

Oh, Ann, I am so sorry to hear this about beautiful Tina. As long as Tina is not suffering and is happy, I do not think it is at all cruel keep her. But to make sure of that, I think, if she were mine, I would try some/all of the good advice given here so far, especially a vet evalution.
Sending love and positive thoughts, and hopes that you will find an answer that will enable you to help your sweet one and keep with you for a good while yet.

Hugs
Chris

[Ann]

First off, thanks for all the replies everyone! I cannot begin to tell you how much your support means to me and how much I appreciate it, so thank you all very much.

That final decision about Tina would be made by both me and my parents, so I do have a say in the matter (thankfully).

I am extremely ashamed to say this, but the thought that her incontinence problem could be caused by anything other than old age hasn't even crossed my mind. Now when you've all brought it up I realize how ignorant it's been for me to just assume that she can't control herself cause she's old. I could hit myself for being that shortsighed! I will talk to my parents as soon as they get home about this (it's my dad's birthday today so they are out buying some stuff for the party tonight). I will be sure to see to it that we arrange a vet appointment for her. I hope to God that something can be done for her. I've written down the name of the medicine PHENYLPROPANOLAMINE so I can ask the vet about that too, thanks for giving me the name!

Before we had Tina spayed we used to have little diapers for her for her monthly bleedings, and even though she didn't like having to wear them they worked fine. I will look into the possibility of buying a new diaper and pads for her, I think that's a great idea, so thanks for bringing that up!

As for keeping her in areas that she can't do that much damage, we're kinda doing that already... We don't wanna put her alone in a room or anything like that so we've basically just moved all carpets and stuff like that from the floor. We also make sure she doesn't go into the room with the parquet flooring. We can't really keep her outside, mainly because Sweden is too cold for that (right now atleast, when summer comes around it would be fine) but also because we don't really have a fitting area to fence in. There's too much trees and ponds and stuff like that in our backyard to be able to have a good area for her to roam freely in.

I'll also try taking up her water bowl after dinner, but I don't think she drinks that much really... But it's well worth a try!

I gotta run now (I promised to clean up my mess of a room before the party tonight), but I promise to let you all know what my parents think of your great ideas! Once again, thank you all so very much!

[Albea]

http://**************.com/ecards/pix/Feel_Better/9095810391.jpg
Everybody has given you very good advice. The best thing you can do for Tina is taking her to the vet as soon as possible.
Carina, who's 10 years old, had some accidents this winter too. After making sure she didn't have any health issues, I realized the problem was that she didn't want to go out, or waited too long to go, because it was sooo cold here this year. There are many reasons why these things can happen and only the vet can find out what those reasons are.
In the mean time, from one Golden mom to another, best wishes for Tina's return to health.

[Kater]

I'll be waiting for an update on Tina. She is such a lovely dog! I hope it is something easy to fix.

[K9karen]

Please excuse my delay in replying as it has been I who have been shortsighted the last few days and consumed with self pity. I'm sorry :o As I was extremely lucky with Cody, despite age and illness, that he never eliminated in the house, and I am not a pro at these things, my first thought as well was a female mammal issue...dropped bladder or infection (we girls are just so lucky in that department :rolleyes: Of course you would have the same items in Sweden as here....duh.....I subscribe to a great Dog Magazine that features incredible products if you would like me to check it out for you..... Meanwhile. reading about another ill pupper, makes me sadder than ever..I hope Tina's problem isn't serious and that it can be treated easily and quickly. Please give her a huge hug and kiss for me.....

[Ann]

Thanks once again for your replies everyone! And the cute picture Albea! :)

I've talked a lot about this with my parents. First thing was that they were both totally against the diaper idea. They felt it would be cruel to Tina remembering how much she hated wearing diapers when she had her period. So that was sadly out of the question.

As for taking her to the vet... Well, that caused a major argument between me and my parents :( We are low on money at the moment, and since both my parents are convinced it's all due to old age they aren't too hot on the idea. But since they also both agree that if you have a pet you should damn well care for it no matter how low on money you are it turned out ok. The only problem is that they don't really want to take Tina to the vets since she is literally petrified of going there... Especially if she has to stay overnight or so for some tests. But I kept telling them that we atleast need to call and ask about it, because maybe she wouldn't need to stay over... Well, I've basically still debating and arguing about it with them every day. I've told them to that I will even be willing to use my own saved money for it.

*sighs* I'll keep you guys posted... I feel so bad about this whole thing and I hope she can go visit the vet really soon.

[Songlover]

Dear Ann,

As Tina's owner, I see it as your obligation to take Tina to a vet for evaluation and treatement as soon as humanly possible.

Many of us on PET TALK have made excellent suggestions, none of which have been followed by either you or your parents. If you love Tina as much as you profess to love her, then you have to take action and get medical attention for her immediately.

Tina deserves better than to be treated like this. If you have money available (*you mentioned that you have your own savings), then you have to use the money to help Tina. If you choose not to do so, then I feel it is your obligation to take her to an animal shelter and leave her there. At least that way she will get the medical attention she so obviously needs. To do otherwise is extremely CRUEL, in my opinion.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but the truth is that you have been reporting on this problem for quite some time. I feel the time has come to take some definite action for Tina, as she is so obviously in physical distress.

Deborah, SO concerned for Tina in Montreal, Canada

[Sudilar]

Hope you can find a way to take Tina to the vet. It might not cost too much. She just might have an infection that can be cleared up. I will be thinking and praying for her.

[DoggiesAreTheBest]

Ann,

I am sorry I am late in my response, but I have been away for a few days getting unpacked and settled back from my trip to Lebanon.

So sad to hear about Tina's condition. I think that the Pet Talkers that have already posted have give you some great advice. The first thing you need to do is take her to the vet. I really don't think that it will cost too much to have her checked out. Even if they run a few tests. I understand money is tight, but Tina is a member of you family and has been for the past 12 years. It's OK if she hates the vet. It is a neccessary evil, I am afraid. Drake absolutely detests going to to the vet, but he is taken nonetheless.

Tina is in my thougts!

Souraya

[Ann]

Thanks Sudilar and Souraya (hope your trip was good!), and don't worry; she will be taken to the vet.

Songlover, your post really offended and upset me. You're accusing us of treating our dog badly, saying we don't love her?! And then you tell us we should just dump her at some shelter?! Just... Ugh.

[Songlover]

Ann,

I am sorry if my post upset you, but I think that Sudilar and Doggies are the Best are essentially saying the same thing that I have said.

I did not mean for you to dump her at a shelter at all. I suggested that as an alternative if you really and truly cannot afford to take her to a vet. There she will be given medical treatment and that is all that I meant. I am sure that will be the last resort for you, but the point is, as all the others have said, Tina needs some kind of medical attention and that is clear.

None of us really know all that there is to know about your personal and family situation and it is really none of our business to know those things, Ann. I feel that there must be something preventing you from taking Tina to the vet and I am sorry about whatever it is, as it is obviously causing you a great deal of difficulty.

We are all concerned about the welfare of your beloved dog and we are trying, each in our own way, to support you. That's all.

Deborah in Montreal

[Ann]

I know, and I'm sorry for blowing up on you.

I did book a vet time for Tina today, but thanks to the upcoming holiday it won't be until the week after easter.

I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks for all your suggestions and concerns!

[DoggiesAreTheBest]

Wow! Your vet must be very busy!
I'm glad that Tina is going to the be able to see him soon. She is in my thoughts.

[Ann]

Tell me bout it! Aside from it being completely closed during the majority of the easter week, they are very busy. But they are good, and they are our regular vet place so there really isn't all that much to be done about it.

[wolf_Q]

Ann, I hope that everything will be ok with sweet Tina, you're beautiful golden. :)

Our poodle, Smokey, is 17 and he's been having problems like that for several years now. The past few months he's been wearing diapers....lucky for us, he doesn't seem to mind them at all. He probably would have tried to rip them off when he was younger. Maybe Tina wouldn't mind them as much now that she's older...who knows.

[anna_66]

I hope it turns out to be something that can be taken care of. Let us know what he says, good luck!

[Ann]

Thanks :)

Oh, and wolf_Q, perhaps you're right with the diaper thing... Only reason I kinda doubt that is of the way she acted a while ago when she had to wear a... Uhmm... I honestly don't know what it's called in english >_< Those white plastic thingies you put around the dog's neck so it can't lick it's wounds. Know what I mean? Anyway, I know it's nothing like diapers but when she had to wear that she stood up, all night, without sleeping at all! We tried to lay her down several times but she got up everytime, totally stressed. In the end we just took the thing off and made her sleep in my bed (so I could watch over her).

[Logan]

We call it a "cone", Ann, or Elizabethian Collar (sp??). And those girls don't like them one bit!! We have never had to deal with the collar or diapers with our Golden girls, luckily. They never went into heat since I had them spayed prior to that experience.

But, I have a friend whose Golden had to have her anal sacs removed last week after numerous problems. She's wearing a diaper and doing very well.

I only wish the very best for Tina! :)

[Ann]

Aha, thanks for that info Logan! Both those two names make a great deal of sense! :D

And for some happy news: Tina hasn't done anything inside for the past two days!!!! WOHOO! :D I am so happy... I sure hope this will keep up!

[Sudilar]

So glad to hear that Tina is doing better!!! :)

[Albea]

It's great to know that Tina hasn't had any accidents in the last two days. However, if possible, and since you already have an appointment with the vet, he should take a look at her to prevent any further problems.
Big hug and many kisses to our Golden friend.

[Ann]

Oh yes, there's no way I'd cancel the appointment now!

In a way, this almost points more towards some kind of infection than old age, doesn't it? I mean, if it was old age causing this, she should be peeing inside everynight no matter what, but if it was/is an infection it might have its ups and downs.

[Tom&Pam]

Ann,
Just keep that appointment! Our prayers to you and especially Tina.
Pam & Tom

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Ann, that great!! somebody must have been watching her! best of luck to you!:)