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View Full Version : Should animals be used in modern-day war?



Miss Meow
03-25-2003, 03:48 PM
This dolphin supports the USA commander task unit, which searches for mines in shipping lanes.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlthumbnail_id_1048354604803_f-dolph3,0.jpg

Do you support the use of animals for such tasks?

On the one hand, an animal may be able to do the job better and reduce the risk of injury and death to humans. On the other hand, should we put animals at risk of death and injury to support activities that perhaps other technology could replace?Do we have a right to bring other species into our battles?

I sit in the latter camp.

lovemyshiba
03-25-2003, 04:21 PM
I saw this on the news this morning. While it sounds great, and we all know dolphins are very smart creatures, I do not think we should be endangering their lives.

RICHARD
03-25-2003, 04:51 PM
this isn't the first time we have used animals..

during the Viet Nam war dogs were used extensively to detect enemy soldiers, some dogs were able to save their handlers lives, some dogs were wounded and some died. (look into some of those stories, incredible!)

in the end, all dogs were left in Vietnam when the U.S. pulled out.

dolphins are extremely smart and the investment that the gov't. and handlers have put into the training of those dolphins make them extremely valuable to the safety of the soldiers.

i vote yes and no.

mugsy
03-25-2003, 05:45 PM
I vote no. If technology can do it why put a living thing in jeopardy?

aly
03-25-2003, 11:31 PM
I heard that Morocco was sending over lots of monkeys to search for mines :(

I think its awful to train animals to do this. Why can't they do it another way. I was in my car when I heard about the monkeys and had to pull over because it made me so upset.

KYS
03-26-2003, 12:13 AM
I have mixed feeling about it.
My husband just came in and told me about the Dolphins.
At first I thought it was really cool than I
was concerned.
My husband looked at me and replied,
What is the difference if using Dolphins/with a camera to
find mines, or using dogs for sniffing out bombs or any
other possibly dangerous work?

So I guess he has a point, unless you believe all
animals should not be used for any type of dangerous work.

RICHARD,

I saw the documentary about the war dogs.
I cried my eyes out. Their was not one good reason
why those dogs were left behind.
If I recall their was a sad ending to a famous black lab, that
was left behind.

kingrattus
03-26-2003, 01:45 AM
I have no problem with using animals to help people... it sounds like the dolfin is just swiming around & not dragging the mine back to the ship.. but using monkeys is wrong... that is 100% a death wish... using dogs in war is ok too, they have a good chance to live... I didn't hear of the war dogs u guys r talking about I've only heard of the ones that were taken from their homes, trained for war & then returned to their homes...

I want to be a K9 cop, so I have no prob with animal helpers... I know this wasn't a dangerous job for Barny but Barny led Bart around who was blind & they were both dogs... Oh & what about sheep dogs.. they get killed on the job by wolves, & RCMP horses get attacked while the officers r riding them... As long as the animal has the same chance of survival as the human, I'm ok with it... but the poor monkeys!! that is wrong...

RICHARD
03-26-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by KYS


RICHARD,

I saw the documentary about the war dogs.
I cried my eyes out. Their was not one good reason
why those dogs were left behind.
If I recall their was a sad ending to a famous black lab, that
was left behind.


there were quite a few tear jerkers in the program.

luckies4me
03-26-2003, 09:47 PM
I too saw that documentary, very heartbreaking. :(


The saddest part was when the one young man had the dogs inthe kennels, and his German Shephard dog was in there when a bomb hit it. He ran over there so fast, even though his life was at risk to make sure his dog was ok. :(


Did they let all the golden or white dogs go? I know in WW2 didn't they let some of the dogs come home? I don't remember exactly what happened.


THey also did a movie on Animal Planet about a war dog, don't remember what it was called but it was a very good movie.

RICHARD
03-28-2003, 10:56 AM
fox news did an excellent story on K-dog, the mine sweeping dolphin last night...very insightful and educating......

what a job they do.....i don't think we have to worry about them being abused or being put in harms way any more than a bomb sniffing dog.....as a matter of fact if i was a dolphin i'd sign up...


at the beach all day, just swimming......:)

Logan
03-28-2003, 11:02 AM
My understanding of the dolphins is that they have the ability to sense the mines without activating them. If they can do this, and save human lives in the process, why wouldn't we want them to? They have vets and many caregivers that provide them safety and good care.

I guess if I have to vote one way or the other, my vote would be yes, in order to save human lives!!

RICHARD
03-28-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Logan
My understanding of the dolphins is that they have the ability to sense the mines without activating them. If they can do this, and save human lives in the process, why wouldn't we want them to? They have vets and many caregivers that provide them safety and good care.

I guess if I have to vote one way or the other, my vote would be yes, in order to save human lives!!

one scene showed a trainer brushing the dolphins teeth......
the dolphin was leaning up against the edge of the pool with his mouth open getting a teeth cleaning (electric tooth brush to boot!) my mom thought that was one of the funniest things!

when they sense a mine in the water they drop a buoy that marks the spot - then divers swim in to destroy the mine.

kingrattus
03-28-2003, 07:58 PM
go dolphins go!!
More dolphins should be used, it would prob. prevent alot of whale deaths aswell & other wayer animals/fish/birds

HoRsELUvR
03-29-2003, 09:25 PM
I guess it could prevent other animal deaths,but i think that the dolphins could be put in danger.

wolfsoul
03-29-2003, 11:37 PM
NO! This is our fight! The humans' fight! Why should we bring the animals into this?!
Czechoslovakian wolfdogs are being used in European wars and are trained to send messages during times of warfare..
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images6/Czechoslovakian_Wolfdoga18.jpg
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images3/CzechoslovakianWolfdognancy.jpg
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images6/Czechoslovakian_Wolfdogjo3_25-12-2000.jpg

And rats are being used to detect mines

http://www.mgm.org/shared/pictures/research/rats-detection1.jpg
http://www.mgm.org/shared/pictures/research/rats-rewarding.jpg

It makes me sad to think of how many of these animals die each day, performing duties for us.

Paul
03-29-2003, 11:54 PM
   From the Times Online, Takoma the dolphin is Awol (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-627180,00.html). I wonder why they say AWOL and not MIA. Here is an older story (http://www.usatoday.com/life/world/iraq/2003-03-26-dolphins_x.htm) with a photo that mentions Takoma from USA Today. I hope Takoma is ok.

      Paul

Logan
03-30-2003, 12:15 AM
I'll bet he is ok, Paul, just having "fun" with the freedom. Hope they will get a report soon. Seem like they would have some kind of homing device on him, doesn't it?

Ann
03-30-2003, 11:20 AM
I'm completely against it. Just because we humans are dumb enough to start wars doesn't mean we have the right to drag animals into it.

Aside from the animals already mentioned in this thread chickens and pigeons are also used, to detect the presence of biological and chemical weapons.

A scary fact: 5000 dogs were used by USA's troops in Vietnam, but only 140 came home. Not because the rest were all killed, but because they were abandoned.

Even if we didn't have modern technology to replace these innocent animals with I'd still be against it.

Pam
03-30-2003, 11:23 AM
Ann you really need to have the flag of Iraq next to your distasteful quote and not the United States flag, even though the people of Iraq are certainly not to blame for the actions of their sick dictator.

jackiesdaisy1935
03-30-2003, 11:32 AM
I also take offense to you having the United States flag flying by your name. I agree with Pam put the Iraqi flag or the Swedish flag by your name or no flag even better. I do not appreciate your
descreation of our flag. Take it off!
Jackie

RICHARD
03-30-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Pam
Ann you really need to have the flag of Iraq next to your distasteful quote and not the United States flag, even though the people of Iraq are certainly not to blame for the actions of their sick dictator.




pam,

why are you bothering the children???? let me do it!!!!!




and then?????

why the obsession on the past???

no wonder no one takes pacifists seriously. they are too busy seeing where they have been as opposed to where they are going...

if you are gonna judge the US on what we have done in the past
great......but why keep repeating it like parrot????

change your tune, then you MAY get an audience and someone
that will debate you..

xo

micki76
03-30-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Ann
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
I also take offense to you having the United States flag flying by your name. I agree with Pam put the Iraqi flag or the Swedish flag by your name or no flag even better. I do not appreciate your
descreation of our flag. Take it off!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's funny, you are so touchy about people saying anything bad about your country but you will take any chance you get to ridicule other people's countries. Sorry, but it won't work on me. Not only couldn't I care less if people dislike Sweden (especially since I share their sentiments in many instances) but I also know that you do not know what you speak of.


Gee Ann, I think the point was more that she's offended by your "use" of "our" flag with your quote. I don't see her "ridiculing" your country here, or any other country for that matter. I'm pretty sure she suggested the swedish flag because you're from sweden. I also saw no one saying they dislike sweden. :confused:

I personally don't care if you fly Old Glory in your signature, but I don't like it conjunction with your quote. Our flag has wiped up much more of our countrymens blood than it's ever covered up.

Please remove either the quote or our flag.

Paul
03-30-2003, 01:41 PM
   If Takoma had a tracking device then the enemy could find him. I hope Takoma has just found a new home in the wild.

   I don't think there are any more military chickens in Iraq. The story I saw said they had died and were replaced with pigeons.

      Paul

Pam
03-30-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Ann
It's funny, you are so touchy about people saying anything bad about your country but you will take any chance you get to ridicule other people's countries.

Ann to my knowledge NO ONE HERE has ever ridiculed another county. It is the United State of America that is being maligned and yes I have a problem with that! I'm sorry that you can't see that but I guess it is a question of your maturity. The Dog House was created by Karen and Paul to have a place to put our feelings. So far as I can see the dialogue there has been pretty peaceful and some meaningful points are being made on both sides. It's too bad you can't contribute some intellectual thought here but you rely on offensive signatures and nasty statements to get your point across. We know where you stand, so you can give it up. Go visit some anti-American websites (I am sure there must be some out there) and have a good old time. I am sure you will feel very at home there. Some day you will grow up. :rolleyes:

wolfsoul
03-30-2003, 04:57 PM
As I type this, innocent people in Iraq are killed. That is not the past.
But it's not the Americans' fault what's happening. Do you think that the soldiers fighting out there want to fight? You say that innocent people in Iraq are dieing, well the American soldiers are innocent, they are people, and they are also in Iraq. What started this was not the Americans. It was a not-so-nice man who wants power more than anything else. Maybe Bush issued war, but it was going to start anyways. Whether Americans started it or not, it would have come. So let's please not fight about this. It is the past, because there isn't anymore we can do. It started already.

Jessica12345
03-30-2003, 08:40 PM
dolphins are my favorite animals in the whole world!

i have many dolphin books, and they *sometimes* get killed in these tasks. While some people are trying to save them from being endangered, others are making them endangered. I hate it! of course, i have been obsessed with dolphins since i was in 1st grade. but even if it was a different animal... i wouldnt support it. They dont get hurt often but it makes me mad. We are risking animals lives instead of our own. would we do that with our friends? probibly not. so why with animals?:(