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ChrisH
03-20-2003, 12:37 PM
War has begun and I have cried today because of it, and I am sure I will shed many more tears before it is over. There is no going back now, no point in arguing and going over the whys and wherefores. It is done.
This is one news item I wanted you all to see, it made me sad for, and proud of, all the men and women of our countries that have to begin their walk on this path today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2866581.stm

Chris

RICHARD
03-20-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by ChrisH

This is one news item I wanted you all to see, it made me sad for, and proud of, all the men and women of our countries that have to begin their walk on this path today.






they do the hard work so we can live in easy peace.

All Creatures Great And Small
03-20-2003, 01:09 PM
Chris, thank you - that was a very interesting link, and I appreciated the chance to read it. Richard, you hit the nail on the head as usual.

NoahsMommy
03-20-2003, 01:54 PM
Oh my gosh! I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes...this is what we live for. DOING THE RIGHT THING, regardless of how hard and unpopular it is.

Thank you Chris for opening a new perspective on this to me. I am humbled that people in such a scary situation, will continue to do the right thing. This restores my faith in humanity...even during war.

Wow. Thank you.

mugsy
03-20-2003, 03:28 PM
Great article Chris. Richard, you are so right. The only thing that I have a problem with is that people who harass the soldiers when they come home. It just angers me...like it's their fault. And if it weren't for them then many people in this world would not have the freedoms that they have.

Thanks for sharing!!

Soledad
03-20-2003, 04:04 PM
Who is harassing soldiers? I haven't heard of that.

It is a sad day. Let us hope it all ends well.

RICHARD
03-20-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by mugsy
Great article Chris. Richard, you are so right. The only thing that I have a problem with is that people who harass the soldiers when they come home.



MIKE,
Cut and paste this on a card........show this around when you
get hassled when you come home.;) lol.

Cataholic
03-20-2003, 04:53 PM
Chris, that was an awesome link. It brings another dimension to this war. Thanks.

Jessica12345
03-20-2003, 04:56 PM
:( god bless america and those brave sodiers! :(

Soledad
03-20-2003, 04:56 PM
The anti-war movement has taken great pains to elaborate that they support the troops.

Dakota's Mommy
03-20-2003, 04:59 PM
I just hope and pray that when they time comes that they soldiers come home, these people stick to that and support our troops and don't treat them badly, I think that's what Mugsy meant to! (This has happened after wars before ex. Vietnam is one I know for sure)

Soledad
03-20-2003, 05:01 PM
Yes, and I hope they do that too. But why accuse people of something that hasn't even happened yet? Especially after many veterans who have been against the war have had their patriotism questioned over and over again, and no one here seems to have a problem with that??:confused:

Dakota's Mommy
03-20-2003, 05:18 PM
Sorry if that's what it seemed like, I'm not trying to accuse anybody of anything yet, I was just stating a fear that I have! Especially because my husband is one of those soldiers! I wasn't trying to offend anybody, attack anybody, etc., etc., etc.,. I'm just stating my opinion and fears for this whole situation as I'm sure many of us on here are!

RICHARD
03-20-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Dakota's Mommy
I just hope and pray that when they time comes that they soldiers come home, these people stick to that and support our troops and don't treat them badly, I think that's what Mugsy meant to! (This has happened after wars before ex. Vietnam is one I know for sure)


people opposed to the Viet Nam war would spit on soldiers in uniform and call them 'baby killers'. THAT is one reason that i hold the anti-war backers with such disdain...

I saw my first "war is not the answer" bumper sticker yesterday.

war may not be the answer, but it seems like people forget what the question was.

Soledad
03-20-2003, 05:21 PM
Yes, what was done to Vietnam soldiers was shameful. I sincerely doubt it will become a mainstream event this time around.

mugsy
03-20-2003, 08:17 PM
Soledad, I was referring to any war, unfortunately. I know that you separate the soldiers from the war issue, but many don't. Mike is living proof to that. The day he got off the plane from Iraq after Desert Storm a guy came up to him and spit in his face and on his uniform. I am sure that as many people are protesting this war, this one won't be any different. :(

Soledad
03-20-2003, 08:21 PM
That's disgusting and wrong.

There have been many articles out there in the Peace movement community pledging support for the troops. There is more organisation these days, so let's hope for the best!!

mugsy
03-20-2003, 08:32 PM
Agreed! I know I saw on Fox news tonight that there were protesters arrested today. I wonder if they were the ones that Richard was referring to. You know, it's always a few that ruin it for those who are trying to do it right. Although, I wish that now that the war has started, I wish they would stop. Not necessarily vocally support the war if they have problems with it, but, silently, by not disrupting the good thoughts flowing from the country.

HoRsELUvR
03-20-2003, 08:49 PM
people are being arrested for protesting?what happened to freedom of speech?

mugsy
03-20-2003, 09:12 PM
I don't think they're being arrested because they're protesting as much as it is that they are disturbing the peace by making their protest, and breaking law pretty much assures that you've crossed the line.

Soledad
03-20-2003, 09:13 PM
HOWEVER, I would just like to point out that there have been MANY protests lately and I haven't seen any coverage of many of them becoming violent.

Let's not focus on the few jackasses who get out of hand. I don't judge all pro-war people by the actions of those who go and vandalise mosques!!

mugsy
03-20-2003, 09:20 PM
too true Soledad. I am not trying to say that all protesters are doing that, but answering Horselover's question, that some of those few jackasses have broken the law and that's why they are being arrested, NOT that they are protesting. I would say that the vast majority of protesters are doing it peacefully and quietly, but the loud obnoxious ones (as in any case) are the ones who are getting the press.

KYS
03-20-2003, 09:25 PM
Chris, thankyou your article which brought tear to my eyes.
Richard right as usual, and mugsey I feel the same way.
I remember how are soldiers were treated when
they returned home from Vietnam.

Unfortunately these few Jackass's seem to
be comming out more and more. I was reading reuters
news about the arrests from the different states. : (

mugsy
03-20-2003, 09:32 PM
And my question to those morons who make the rest of the protesters look bad is, "How is what you're doing any better than what Bush is doing? Violence is violence and it doesn't solve a thing! At least in war the participants go in knowing that they may not come back (not a knowledge that I would care to live with thanks) and they are doing it to protect the idiots that pull this crap.

Soledad
03-20-2003, 09:36 PM
The only problem with that line of logic is that many protesters aren't opposed to ALL war or ANY violence, but this particular situation. So, I wouldn't say that just because you protest the war, you must also be a pacifist.

jackiesdaisy1935
03-20-2003, 10:00 PM
Chris, thank you so much for allowing us to read that article, I did have tears in my eyes, God Bless America, England, and all the Countries who are with us in this endeavor to free Iraq.

I belong to another dog community who is going to adopt a company of soldiers who are on the front lines, and our members are going to send little packages and letters to these men to let them know that we support their effort and appreciate the sacrifices they and their families are making for all of us.
Jackie, Perry and Miss Daisy

mugsy
03-20-2003, 10:20 PM
Jackie, I had the same thought. I'm going to check with my principal (since our school system seems to want to keep the discussion of war to a minimum :( ) and have a letter writing campaign to send to the troops.

jackiesdaisy1935
03-20-2003, 11:44 PM
Mugsy, I think that would be wonderful, I know the service men and women would love to hear from the kids, it would certainly help their morale.
Jackie

mugsy
03-21-2003, 02:41 AM
I was still subbing during Desert Storm and I know that at least 2 of the middle schools in FWCS had the kids write letters and many of them got responses back and actually got themselves a pen pal!!

RICHARD
03-21-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by mugsy
I was still subbing during Desert Storm and I know that at least 2 of the middle schools in FWCS had the kids write letters and many of them got responses back and actually got themselves a pen pal!!



you can go to the dod.gov website and click on the "DEAR ABBY"
link.....you can post messages to be read by the troops overseas.... the messages that brought tears to my eyes were the ones from Australia. what a classy bunch of people!

RICHARD
03-21-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935


I belong to another dog community who is going to adopt a company of soldiers who are on the front lines, and our members are going to send little packages and letters to these men to let them know that we support their effort and appreciate the sacrifices they and their families are making for all of us.
Jackie, Perry and Miss Daisy


please send them baby wipes!!!!! as stupid as this sounds a talk show host got a call from a woman who asked people to send baby wipes...water is at a premium and the soldiers need them to wipe their faces and hands!!!!!!
i am looking into getting a so cal company to donate some!

thanks!!!!

NoahsMommy
03-21-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
you can go to the dod.gov website and click on the "DEAR ABBY"link.....you can post messages to be read by the troops overseas.... the messages that brought tears to my eyes were the ones from Australia. what a classy bunch of people!
Richard,
That url wont work for me...is there another one I can try?

NoahsMommy
03-21-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
I belong to another dog community who is going to adopt a company of soldiers who are on the front lines, and our members are going to send little packages and letters to these men to let them know that we support their effort and appreciate the sacrifices they and their families are making for all of us.
Jackie, Perry and Miss Daisy
Jackie,
How did you go about doing this? I would like to do this as well. Can you PM me some information?
Thanks. :)

RICHARD
03-21-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by NoahsMommy

Richard,
That url wont work for me...is there another one I can try?

sorry i didn't post it as a URL..... i just typed dod.gov in my web browser........remember when you read my posts you are dealing with a moron!!

here's the address!

www.defenselink.mil/

KYS
03-21-2003, 08:08 PM
Thank you RICHARD for
the web site,
I just sent my e-mails out.

Twisterdog
03-23-2003, 06:36 PM
There is no going back now, no point in arguing and going over the whys and wherefores. It is done.

I agree with this. This war has pros and cons, and we could argue until we are blue in the face whether it should have happened or not. But the fact of the matter is, it is happening right now. And our neighbors, relatives, friends, co-workers, loved ones are now on the front lines of an actual war. IMO, the time for bickering and arguing is over. We are Americans, we live in America, and America is at war. We need to be patriotic and supportive.

The public is obviously not so anti-war ... or we would not have elected Bush president in the first place. He and his father both have a history of not shying away from conflict. If, in the future, the public becomes overwhelmingly anti-war, then we will elect a passifist (sp?) to office. We speak as a whole with who we elect, that is the way of a democaracy. If we were completely opposed to the idea of war and conflict, we would not have elected Bush and Cheney.

I find the entire concept of an actual, real war difficult to grasp, frankly. I think everyone under the age of forty in the USA does. We don't remember Korea, we don't remember Viet Nam. The only "war" we have any recollection of is Desert Storm ... which was frankly portrayed as a video game by the media. We have no idea, as a generation, what it is like to be at war, to lose someone in a war, etc. Our parents and grandparents know, but we have no clue.

And lastly, to end this long ramble, let me offer one of my favorite quotes .... "If you are not a liberal when you are young, you don't have a heart. If you are not a consevative when you are older, you don't have a brain." I have always liked this quote, because it seems SO true. For those of us in our thirties, forties, fifties, etc .... would we have felt the same way about this war if were in our teens or twenties? And for those of you in your teens and twenties ... don't be so quick to condemn the views of those older than you ... you haven't walked the miles that we have yet.

Just some food for thought .....

Soledad
03-23-2003, 06:46 PM
My parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles are all liberal and they're all over 40 and have many years of military service between them.

And, just as an aside, Bush wasn't elected. He was appointed.

I thought I'd add this as well:

"In Washington, about 200 American military veterans marched in opposition to the war. They laid wreaths at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial and other monuments and attempted to deliver a petition signed by more than 2,600 veterans to the White House.

The antiwar veterans were turned away by White House guards and told they would have to mail the petition. "

What's that about peace protesters being young, war-ignorant peaceniks??

micki76
03-23-2003, 06:52 PM
Thank you Richard. I've sent emails to each branch of the armed forces. I know it's not much, but besides praying, it's all I can do.

Twisterdog
03-23-2003, 07:57 PM
What's that about peace protesters being young, war-ignorant peaceniks??

Did I say that? Please show me where I said "all peace protesters are young, war-ignorant, peaceniks", please, I'd be most interested to see this. Or are you quoting someone else? Or are you just twisting words around? I really, really hate it when people generalize statements others have made, condense them, rearrange them, use them out of context .. and then try to pass them off as a direct quote. I sure hope that wasn't what you were trying to do to my post with that sentence. I'll assume not.

Soledad
03-23-2003, 08:56 PM
Good assumption!

jackiesdaisy1935
03-23-2003, 09:00 PM
I don't like the fact that we have wonderful, intelligent young men fighting over there in Iraq, more than likely the cream of the crop, I wonder what they are thinking when they are ready to lay down their lives for people they have never known, poor people who have been tortured, starved, and have had no say in their government.
What do these protesters say to them with their signs? We want peace? Why do you think these men are over there, do you think these young men love war? We have four young people who are prisoners, and others who were executed, they gave up their lives to help these people and keep the world free.

Don't you think it is time that we show these young people in uniform that we all want peace, tell them we understand their willingness to fight for what they believe in, that they have the courage of their convictions. That we care what happens to them.

I'm an old woman, not political, not very smart, there are a lot of things that could be better done in this country, but I'll tell you
the men and women over in Iraq whether they be from the good ole USofA or England are the best there is, that's for sure.
Jackie, Perry and Miss Daisy

Soledad
03-23-2003, 09:15 PM
Hi Jackie,

I support the troops. I know they are out there in the dead heat doing a job that I could not. They are brave, smart, focused, dedicated and loyal. No doubt about it.

My father is a Vietnam vet, my grandfather a Korean vet. I could go on, but a vast majority of my family has been in the service.

I have never claimed that the soldiers are warmongers. My discontent lies with the President and his administration. That is all. I think that the people who continue to go to peace vigils/stand ins are doing so to gather and hope/pray for the best possible outcome.

And Jackie, we all know you're smart.

Corinna
03-23-2003, 10:12 PM
I too don't like the war, but I like even less is people like Hitler, Saddam has to be stopped be fore he does more killing of his people. I too am very angry at France,and Germany. Do they not remeber how much american blood was shed for them in the past? I had a friend who was telling a group of my business assocites about his trip to Normandy and the memorials there. How could a country so thankful for us be so unhelpful and forget. My opinion cut all the millions we are sending them Now.
I just think of the people that they have already had contact with asking for food and water. The picture they showed on NBC of that 1st village and the man on his knees asking for them just mad me so sad. They are sarving and they leader is building palaces the size of shopping malls. The peace protesters should see that. Even city dwellers in Bagdad are hungry and just barly makiing it. If your not part of the regime you arn't worthy (according to Saddam.)
Ok my 2 cents worth, as I pray for my daughters best freind(neew mommy) and her husband as their ship has been called up (medical) I have no Idea who is going to be caring for the 4 month old baby.

jackiesdaisy1935
03-23-2003, 10:27 PM
Oh Soledad, I can't be too smart because I like President Bush, lol
Actually I thought he surrounded himself with some pretty smart cookies, men with lots of experience, he seems straight forward, honest, caring and believes in a higher authority then himself.
Just think he picked a woman as his national security advisor can't get any better than that, right? I don't think he is liked by the Hollywood crowd because he doesn't pander to them like the former playboy President that we had, lol.
Anyway thanks for telling me I'm smart, but I could never keep with up with the smart chickees we have on here. lol
Jackie

Chinadoll
03-23-2003, 11:02 PM
Chris-that was a good article. thanks for the link

As far as anti-war protests, yes they were upsetting to me. Although, from the majority of people I've spoken with and from what I've seen, anti-war protesters are not against our troops, rather they want to bring them home. That's what I told Joey when I e-mailed him about the protests. I know he and some of our friends from his Marine Corps unit were a tad upset when they heard of all the protests, said it made them question why exactly they're doing what they're doing, made them feel as if what they're doing is all for nothing. Of course, they really don't dwell on that. When I spoke with him last, they were just focused on getting the job done so he could come home.

For those looking to send care packages to troops...yes, one of the main items they need is BABY WIPES...lots and lots of baby wipes. For a list of items to send, check out :

http://www.operationshoebox.com

**Support our Troops**

Soledad
03-23-2003, 11:58 PM
Chinadoll - Thanks for your input. I will make people aware in the anti-war communities that I am a part of to make more efforts to be aware of military members and their families and to also get together to send packages, letters, etc.

Chinadoll
03-24-2003, 12:54 AM
Thanks Soledad...

When I wrote Joey about the protests, I did mention that part of what he is defending is free speech...and as stated in the First Amendment...the right of people to peacably assemble. Although upsetting to me at first when I saw the protests, I really have no problem with people against the war. They have a right to their own opinion. Heck, I even had my own questions with the course of action our government chose to take...but, war has started and right or wrong, oil or no, my only concern is for our troops.

Everyone's support of our troops is greatly appreciated.

Soledad
03-24-2003, 02:09 AM
Chinadoll -

I hope you pass onto Joey that as one war protester and peace vigil attendee that the vast majority of us have nothing but support for individuals in the armed forces. We have no issue with them whatsoever. We hope the best for them and know the sacrifices they are making. We just want the government to know what we're thinking as many of us are not sure that it will end with Iraq.

Chinadoll
03-24-2003, 02:41 AM
Thanks...I'll do that.

RICHARD
03-24-2003, 01:13 PM
i saw a real funny clip on the news this weekend....
a reporter went out to ask protestors some questions about the war and their opinions...

the gal reporter asked some pretty benign questions, why are you against the war? why are you here?

there was one gent who, flummoxed by the reporter's inquiry,
began to toss out some four lettered monologue....
it was funnier than the 'osbourne's'- after a few seconds you could not tell what the guy was saying! it was one BEEPfest.
he wasn't real smart..

it shows what a grasp the A.W.P.'s have of the situation. they
can't figure out the politics or the situation, so they lash out and
start to yell and scream when they cannot answer the question....remember, war is not the answer, lol!

also do not fall for the, "we support the troops, but condemn the
war" line of thought.......well if you support soldiers, you support war.......what are soldiers for????

and why is it that people get all riled up about a war half a world away and do not care about their own back yards? they'll waste a saturday/sunday to take a chance to get thrown in jail, but they refuse to take that saturday/sunday to volunteer in the community?

what a bunch of horse puckey..........there a pet reference!!!:rolleyes:

Twisterdog
03-24-2003, 09:55 PM
Excellent post, jackiesdaisy1935. Well thought out and well said.

And Richard, you simply crack me up! :D

Miss Meow
03-24-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by RICHARD
...also do not fall for the, "we support the troops, but condemn the war" line of thought.......well if you support soldiers, you support war.......what are soldiers for????


Defence, not attack :)

He he, I'll come and wash your windows for that one!

RICHARD
03-25-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Miss Meow
Defence, not attack :)

He he, I'll come and wash your windows for that one!


anything to come to california!
thanks, we are even..

mugsy
03-25-2003, 03:12 PM
Never turn down someone to do windows you silly man!! lol

Paul
03-25-2003, 03:36 PM
   The Whitehouse suggested today that the USA Freedom Corps (http://www.usafreedomcorps.gov/) website is the omnibus place for people looking to support the troops should go to for instructions. The help for troops and families (http://www.usafreedomcorps.gov/for_volunteers/spotlight/articles/200303-07.asp) page has information and leads to other websites.

      Paul