** 2 NEW FAMILY MEMBERS** pictures too

[Desert Arabian]

Yup....suckered mom again...got two new baby ratties. They are little sisters, and they are very tiny. From their nose to the root of the tail they are about 3.5"- 4" long. I named them Chloe and Daisy. They are extremely soft and their tails feel like a string of velvet. Here are some pictures of my little babies.
This is a facial shot of Chloe:
http://members.aol.com/OrliBloom177/chloe1.jpg
This is a top shot of Chloe:
http://members.aol.com/OrliBloom177/chloe2.jpg
This is a facial shot of Daisy:
http://members.aol.com/OrliBloom177/daisy1.jpg
This is a top shot of Daisy:
http://members.aol.com/OrliBloom177/daisy2.jpg

Hope you like them. As they settle down and get accustomed to thier new house I will take more pictures of them. :D :D :D :D

[Jessica12345]

I can only see the first pic of chloe, but he/she (?) is so cute!:D

[Desert Arabian]

I know, something is funky with AOL (OF COURSE!), we are trying to fix the pictures right now. :) /:(

[RockyRoad]

Congratulations on the new additions! Chloe is sooo adorable!:)

[primabella]

chloe's a cutie! congrats :D

[luckies4me]

Awww I love agouti hoodeds!!!! :D Agouti is actually my favorite color. ;)


They look to be only four weeks old, perhaps three and a half weeks, they are tiny. But oh so very cute! Just make sure both are girls lol, males can retain their testicles for a long time.

[luckies4me]

OMG I see testicles on the first pic!!!!:eek: Or am I just blind?

[jenluckenbach]

they are so cute !!! Your Mom's a good person, many a parent say "no" or "No more" pets! Have fun with them.

Oh my , they are both so precious !!! Congrats!!

[luckies4me]

Nevermind lol, I am pretty sure that is your finger and the ratties foot lol. :p



You should post more pics of the others too! :D



Did you see my new ratty pics???

[Jessica12345]

aaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! they are soooooooooooo adorible! oh my! *mommy, can i get a rat?* lol:D

[tikeyas_mom]

cute rats They must be happy to be with you :). Can rats be housed together? Just wondering.. I might get 4 feeder mice soon as pets. They sell for like 49 cents.. :) I want femals. They can be housed together so thats good ,, :)

[Desert Arabian]

Luckies- I made a thread a while back with new pictures of the ratties, didn't you see it? It's called "Alrighty, you asked for it (pictures)". Yea, that is my finger in the first picture. LOL.

Tikeyas_mom- rats would go insane if they weren't kept together...they have to have company. They are EXTREMELY social animals.

I am so in love with these stinkers. They run spasticly on their wheel. The other rats refuse to touch a wheel, even when they were little. OMG- it is so funny to watch them run in the wheel, oh geeze, can't even imagine what Dudley will think. Hehe. :p


Your Mom's a good person, many a parent say "no" or "No more" pets! Have fun with them.
She tries to say "no", and she always said "No more rats!" after we got Fred and Oscar. But their cute little faces sucker my mom easily, and that's what did her in. :p

[CathyBogart]

Is Daisy odd-eyed or is it just that picture and I'm insane? ^_^

They're both darling, congratulations on having such an easily suckered mom!!!

[luckies4me]

I haven't seen too may odd eyed agoutis, unless they are blazed bandeds, and from the pic I would say no, it's just a glare. :)

[All Creatures Great And Small]

I know better - usually I can resist the little faces in the glass cases, but this time - well, look at them!
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/NewPoo1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/NewPoo2.jpg
And of course, you can't bring just one home, since the babies have to be segregated from our big boisterous adults, and they would need each other for company in their separate enclosure....just like when we bought Fred and Oscar together.
Ah well, what's 2 more when you already have 5 - they don't eat much or take up much room anyway - ;) :D

[luckies4me]

Just curious but are your ratties being quarantined at all? :confused:

[Tina]

Congrats!!:D They are both so adorable!!

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by luckies4me
Just curious but are your ratties being quarantined at all? :confused:

Yes...it is noted in the post above yours.

since the babies have to be segregated from our big boisterous adults They are in a 20 gallon tank...and will be in there for a couple of weeks. They haven't even seen the other rats through the glass. :( /:)

[luckies4me]

They aren't being quarantined ina seperate building? SDA and Sendai virus spread through air, so quarantine won't work unless it's a seperate building with a different air supply.

[Desert Arabian]

Ok...I'll go put them out in the shed.

Or maybe I can drop them off at our cottage (200 miles away). WAIT! The storage garage is closer, only up the road...I can take them there.

[Desert Arabian]

Just kidding, by the way

[luckies4me]

LOL I thought you were kidding, wouldn't do any good now anyways. *sigh*


Hey, go to this link:

It is a memorial as well as info on Sendai and SDA


rat viruses, why quarantine is important (http://www.rodentfancy.com/sda.shtml)


:)

[shais_mom]

Won't they freeze?
And if they are in a glass enclosure, isn't that the same as being a different building??

[Desert Arabian]

I guess not..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by shais_mom
Won't they freeze?
And if they are in a glass enclosure, isn't that the same as being a different building??



NO it is NOT the same. They need a different air supply. If they are in a tank, they still breath the same air as the others!


Please read the link I provided, which has a lot more info.

[luckies4me]

"Because these viruses can spread by aerosol, a separate cage or even a separate room in the house is not effective for quarentining."



another link (http://www.rodentfancy.com/rmfe/virus.shtml)



This link provides more info as well.

[Desert Arabian]

I'll get the newspaper out first thing tomorrow and look around for a duplex or apartment somewhere close. Maybe a pent-house in Florida, that sounds nice to me. Warm tropical air, 2,000 miles from my other rats-impossible to infect the big ones with cooties.

I'll have to see what mom thinks we should get.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
I'll get the newspaper out first thing tomorrow and look around for a duplex or apartment somewhere close. Maybe a pent-house in Florida, that sounds nice to me. Warm tropical air, 2,000 miles from my other rats-impossible to infect the big ones with cooties.

I'll have to see what mom thinks we should get.


Why do you make fun of this? These viruses are deadly! They can kill all your rats in a matter of days.

You don't need another apartment, you can use a heated detached garage or have a friend quarantine for you. WOuldn't you HATE to kill all your rats because you failed to preperly qaurantine.

[All Creatures Great And Small]

Well, here we go again with the hysteria -

Luckies, you can't be serious about this quarantine business when it comes to 2 pet store rats in a single family home. They have already been exposed to the air in the fairly crappy pet store they came from, so they probably have any number of diseases already. Kind of like shutting the barn door after the horses get out. Fred and Oscar came from the same pet store, we kept them separated the same way, in the same room but in a different aquarium, and they have not infected or killed any other rats in the house - in fact, they were the lucky ones who DIDN'T get the pneumonia that the girls did. We don't have a heated attached garage; in a Wisconsin winter that would be nearly impossible as well as ridiculous - the garage would have to be insulated as thickly as the house to stay at 70 degrees, and the heating bills would be astronomical, unless you're suggesting they could get by in a 50 degree room. We'd just be exposing them to all the chemicals in the garage, as well as infected air from all the neighborhood squirrels and chipmunks, not to mention lowering their resistance to illnesses by exposing them to a drafty, stinky garage.

Oddly enough, we don't have friends who enjoy rats, especially to the point that they would be willing to take them on in their home. If we had friends who had rats, why would they want to take in our possibly diseased rats to breathe all over their rats, anyway? They're OUR pets, so they will live in OUR house, infested as it may be. We're not running a world-class breeding facility, just enjoying the company of a few pets that we wanted to rescue from a cruddy pet store.

[luckies4me]

Yes I am serious, because it doesn't matter if you brought ONE rat in, they have the potential to carry a deadly virus, why would you want to take the risk? Yes as of now it won't do any good because if they had anything most likely the other rats do too already. And it's not hysteria, it's common sense.

[luckies4me]

WHO's PETS ARE AT RISK?

1. Any pet owner who obtains a pet from a petstore or a breeder who did not properly quarantine.

2. Any pet owner who attends pet rodent shows.

3. The pets of any person who takes in and places rescues if proper quarentines and safety measures are not taken.

4. Any person who breeds rodents- no matter how many or few- even a pet owner who has a pet become pregnant once by plan or accident- if that person never did a quarentine for the original animals brought into the home for breeding as they could be harboring infection that is passed on to the offspring.

5. Any person who handles rodents in a store, shelter, etc and then immediately goes home and handles their own pets.

6. Any person who's pet rodents may come in contact with wild rodents, even if they do not have physical contact but are in the same area. (eg: some wild mice have gotten into your home)

7. Anyone who pet sits rodents, especially if done in the house or if out of the house if the person immediately goes home and handles their own pets




SDA is usually transmitted by respiratory aerosol- in other words, simply by their sharing the same air. Outside of the host body, it lasts long enough that you can carry it on your hands or clothes and thus transfer it to previously uninfected animals. Sendai is carried in the respiratory tract. We still aren’t certain how it is transferred but it is suspected to be transmitted in the same ways SDA is.


Text books are written for labs mostly, so they suggest that if barriers do not keep the virus out, to eliminate (kill) the infected animals and start over. Obviously, this is unacceptable for the fancy. The textbooks do describe another method: a strict quarantine for 6 - 8 weeks.

To be effective, a “quarantine” must mean a total shutting down of the rodentry. It means no introduction of new animals, no placement of animals, no breeding of animals (as the babies would perpetuate the life of the virus). There must be no contact with other rodentries or animals. Attend no shows. If visiting with friends or family with pet rodents, explain the virus to them so that everyone disinfects between visits. If taking rats or mice to a vet, be sure the vet knows so you aren’t scheduled to come in when another fancier is there with their pets.
Because these viruses can spread by aerosol, a separate cage or even a separate room in the house is not effective for quarentining.

If you are a breeder or rescuer and will be bringing in new rats periodically or frequently showing, you should find a separate building to quarantine new animals in. A friend or family member may be willing to let you use their home, basement or garage (if it is heated in winter and air-conditioned in summer). Another option is for a group of fanciers to work together, where they take turns housing the quarantined animals while the established animals stay in other fancier’s homes.

Most texts say that quarantine for SDA or Sendai needs to last six to eight weeks. If the virus is contracted when you already have animals pregnant, you need to wait for them to give birth, raise the young and then start counting quarantine after the babies have shown and recovered from symptoms (usually just after they wean).


“Why should I quarantine ? My animals are healthy & aren’t infecting anyone else’s.”

Appearing to be in good health does not mean an animal is not infectious. In fact our recent outbreak of SDA was traced back to rats acquired from a breeder who insisted that the above was true because their rodentry had a closed breeding system (that is, they bred only offspring of animals they had bred themselves, and did not acquire animals from other sources). At some time, there was an outbreak and the surviving rats recovered and possessed a natural resistance. Because this person continued to breed, the new litters in turn become infected, recover and have resistance. So long as you continue to breed, you are bringing in new blood, and you are keeping the virus alive in your rodentry.

As this person kept a closed rodentry, their rats had little opportunity to pick up other new infections (e.g.: respiratory illnesses), so they basically created a situation similar to what is described in many scientific texts. When one of their rats came in contact with ours, the result was an outbreak in our animals. It’s very similar to when Europeans first traveled to other countries, illnesses that were “annoying colds” to Europeans caused widespread death among American, African and Australian natives.

“If you breed with the virus present and the result is animals that are naturally resistant and have fewer symptoms and deaths- then shouldn’t we intentionally expose our animals, and let the virus stay (enzootic)?”

No. In the case of SDA, the only way it can exist in your colony without causing problems is if you have no (or very few) other infections. Remember, SDA is deadly to so many rats because they already have Mycoplasma pulmonis among several other infections in them. You would still need to quarantine out of fear of other bacterial and viral diseases- all you need is a new strain of myco or staph or another illness to come by and the effect will be deadly.

In the case of Sendai, while there is a resistance, it is acquired at a great price. The virus causes scarring to the lungs which can be permanently damaged. With damaged lungs, your rat will be harder hit by other respiratory diseases. Finally, a person cannot choose to breed with a virus like this present and not cause harm to the rest of the fancy. When this person places animals will they inform the buyer that the animal carries certain viruses? Will that person in turn breed the animal, and if so, will they be so honest? Experience tells us this won’t happen- once animals bred in an infected rodentry are placed- the infection spreads.

[wolf_Q]

Luckies, ...what do YOU do with all those rats you bring into your house all the time? Do you have a heated garage? Or better yet...a separate home just for new rats in your back yard? Just curious. I don't think everyone has the access to a separate building to quarantine rats.

Chloe and Daisy are adorable! Loved the pics! :D You make me want to get some ratties!

[All Creatures Great And Small]

OK, whatever, you know everything about rats and we know NOTHING - we shouldn't even be allowed to own any, because we are horrible pet owners. Happy now? Why do you have to go into this textbook-quoting mode whenever anyone mentions anything about their pets? OK, WE GET IT - YOU ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE. We know where to find rat info links without you as the middleman, so you can stop preaching to us now. We've also owned rats for 3 years now, all of them came from pet stores, and they all lived their normal though short lifespan, so I guess we have at least ONE clue.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by wolf_Q
Luckies, ...what do YOU do with all those rats you bring into your house all the time? Do you have a heated garage? Or better yet...a separate home just for new rats in your back yard? Just curious. I don't think everyone has the access to a separate building to quarantine rats.

Chloe and Daisy are adorable! Loved the pics! :D You make me want to get some ratties!


Well I have a friends apartment that I use, which is about a few steps away, as well as our house (not our apartment) as well as other friends houses which do not have any other rodents.

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by All Creatures Great And Small
OK, whatever, you know everything about rats and we know NOTHING - we shouldn't even be allowed to own any, because we are horrible pet owners. Happy now? Why do you have to go into this textbook-quoting mode whenever anyone mentions anything about their pets? OK, WE GET IT - YOU ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE. We know where to find rat info links without you as the middleman, so you can stop preaching to us now. We've also owned rats for 3 years now, all of them came from pet stores, and they all lived their normal though short lifespan, so I guess we have at least ONE clue.


NO I do not know everything about rats, as owners and breeders we are always learning, that is part of the fancy.


I never said you should own rats, believe me, you guys know a hell of a lot more than others do! But I don't think it is right to make fun of this in the way you two did. These are lives we are talking about, they are not just animals that you can throw away or replace in a moments notice. I am pretty sure you two would be sad to lose your rats to some disease. I know I would.


I understand that some people do not have this kind of acess, but if you don't why get others rats and risk it? Either way, they are your pets and you will do whatever you want.


As you can see I gave links and was not "bitching" or anything, I was being nice when your daughter had to come back with some immature response as if these disease mean nothing.


That is all I am going to say, if you want to PM me that's fine. I really do think your ratties are cute though and I wish you luck with them and all the others. If I come off as a "knowit all" I am sorry, but these animals mean a lot to me evenif they are not mine, my goal is to educate others and that is what I do, even if they don't listen. That is just me, sorry.

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by luckies4me
But I don't think it is right to make fun of this in the way you two did. These are lives we are talking about, they are not just animals that you can throw away or replace in a moments notice. I am pretty sure you two would be sad to lose your rats to some disease. I know I would.

I wasn't making fun of the disease...just your posts (and hysteria).


I was being nice when your daughter had to come back with some immature response as if these disease mean nothing.

Yup that's me.....the one with a HUGE sense of humor, and a LARGE heart for my rats, and a TINY CRAPPY DRAFTY 1960's house where we are all forced to breathe the same air.

[Desert Arabian]

I am still trying to catch a picture of them running in the wheel, but so far not luck. And of course, when I don't have the camera ready, they run in the wheel together.....:D