yogurt drops

[wolfsoul]

just curious...all rat owners speak up! how much does it cost to buy yogurt drops in ur area? here u get this tiny little bottle (about the size of a regular bottle of pills) for $8!!! ahk, it expensive!

[luckies4me]

Oh god I sure hope you did not buy a box of Kaytee yogurt drops???:eek:


Please check the label for this Ethoxyquin and if it's in the ingredients toss them right away then go to my feeding article and click the links about this dangerous additive that kills and deforms animals!!!!

[wolfsoul]

no i dont buy yogurt drops, they r waaaay too expensive for me...i might as well just give them yogurt lol...why? ive never heard of those b4...i dont think my petshops have the same things as everyone elses cuz im always hearing of these things ive never seen before lol...whats the big deal with this kind? dangerous right? everything they sell seems to be dangerous, and they dont even care....thats y when im older, i wanna have a pet shop/shelter (a mix of the two! :D ) and i will post up signs in the front warning of the dangers of everything bad that other petshops sell, and they will all come crawling to me mwahahaha!!! lol jk, but i would never sell bad things, live pine or cedar shavings.

[Aspen and Misty]

Mine was $3.19. They love yogies, hope will do anything for them :D


Ash

[luckies4me]

LOL! :p

I can just imagine your evil petshop plan like a cartoon or something, ROTFLMAO!

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
Mine was $3.19. They love yogies, hope will do anything for them :D


Ash


Check your ingredients! Please!!! Look for Ethoxyquin...it's a killer!:eek:


I have a safe brand..let me see what it is...one sec....

Ok the brand is Vitakraft.;)

Mine cost around 3 bucks.

[Aspen and Misty]

Hmm let me check................................


Nope no Ethoxyquin in there. :D Mine is made by Eight In One Pet Products. :D

Ash

[luckies4me]

OOH that's a good brand too! They use Vitamin E instead of Ethoxyquin :)

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by luckies4me
LOL! :p
I can just imagine your evil petshop plan like a cartoon or something, ROTFLMAO!

Yeeeessss...mwahahahaha!!! evil petshop!!! ahem..uhhhh i mean...nice...petshop...heh...heh...heh..ahem..heh ...im not crazy...*eye twitches*

[Cincy'sMom]

I usually pay about $3- $3.5 for the Vitakraft. My dogs love them! They also love the fruit covered yogurt sold for small animals!

[popcornbird]

So the yogurt drops are not safe? Phew! I was just going to buy them for my birds for Eid! They never got them before, and I wanted to try it out! Thanks for telling!

[Desert Arabian]

My rats refuse to eat Vitakraft drops (they LOVE Kaytee). They hate them so much, Skittles THREW hers out of the cage!! I was sitting at my desk doing homework and I heard something drop on the floor, I looked, and there was a yogurt drop on the floor. LOL. Plus, Vitakraft drops are pure sugar...along with other sugary ingredients.

[zippy-kat]

Originally posted by luckies4me
Please check the label for this Ethoxyquin and if it's in the ingredients toss them right away then go to my feeding article and click the links about this dangerous additive that kills and deforms animals!!!!

I visited your homepage... didn't find the feeding article.... ?

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
My rats refuse to eat Vitakraft drops (they LOVE Kaytee). They hate them so much, Skittles THREW hers out of the cage!! I was sitting at my desk doing homework and I heard something drop on the floor, I looked, and there was a yogurt drop on the floor. LOL. Plus, Vitakraft drops are pure sugar...along with other sugary ingredients.


Kaytee is a killer! Did yo go to my links on my feeding page? It also deforms animals, especially dogs. My link also has info on corn toxicity.


Here is the link again...also for Zippy Kat. BTW I have yet to add pages to my site...I don't even have all my rats up, I just added my does page today!


feeding part 1 (http://www.geocities.com/luckies4me/feeding.html)
feeding article 2 (http://www.geocities.com/luckies4me/feeding2.html)


Please note that I am STILL not done with the second page as you can plainly see.

[Desert Arabian]

I have been to your website hundreds of times luckies...;) :p

So far Kaytee isn't a killer so far because it hasn't killed my rats, nor made 'em ill.

Ethoxyquin is the 20th ingredient listed...which means there is hardly any in there. (As you know, as you read and ingredient list, the further you go, the smaller the amount of that ingredient.)

[luckies4me]

But why would you want to risk their health? Ethoxyquin has killed TONS of animals!!! Please go to this site to learn more..they also have a movie that is VERY good.

My view is, even if it is a little bit it can cause so much harm and I would rather not risk my rats life than to feed something that has just a bit because the truth is evena little tiny bit if fed over and over and ove effects them. ;)

Ehtoxyquin (http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/mp30/ethoxyquin.html#)


Note that it has been found in research that several lab rats have suffered serious birthing complications etc. when fed even small portions of this chemical..and it is not really regulated by the USDA and Food and Drug Administration.

You can find several articles online and also talk to your vet about the effects of this chemical on rats.

[Desert Arabian]

Not once did I see the word "rat" mentioned in that article about dogs and the effects of Ethoxyquin on them. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[wolfsoul]

i wouldnt risk it either...when i found out about pine shavings being bad for pocket pets, i threw them away...two full bags of pine shavings...and it didnt even make my rat sick...there was some porphyrin, but the vet told me that that was normal and that its nothing to worry about *makes a voodoo doll of vet* mwahaha *ahem* lol

[luckies4me]

It doesn't have to mention rats. Do a search and you wil find articles that mention rats. If it does that to dogs which are so many tims bigger than rats (and the same amount is used in foods) imagine what it could do to an even smaller animal such as a rat! Scary stuff! You should watch the video!:eek:

[Desert Arabian]

Just because it affects dogs DOES NOT mean it can affect rats. They are two total different species. For example, we can eat 3 chocolate bars and not die, if a dog eats 1 chocolate bar it can be fatal.

Wolfsoul- It worries me to read your posts.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by luckies4me
It doesn't have to mention rats. Do a search and you wil find articles that mention rats. If it does that to dogs which are so many tims bigger than rats (and the same amount is used in foods) imagine what it could do to an even smaller animal such as a rat! Scary stuff! You should watch the video!:eek:
video! weee now i have to watch it!

[luckies4me]

Yes but it does effect rats...which is what I am saying.

I amspending WAY too much time here lol...I need to get going so I will talk to you all later. Cya!:)

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
Just because it affects dogs DOES NOT mean it can affect rats. They are two total different species. For example, we can eat 3 chocolate bars and not die, if a dog eats 1 chocolate bar it can be fatal.

Wolfsoul- It worries me to read your posts.

she said that other sites mention rats though...maybe check and see?
y does reading my posts worry u?:confused: its not my fault i asked how much yoggies r and it led to this...if u ask me, its better it led to this...now ppl can be more educated on the affects of such things as these.

[Aspen and Misty]

This is one interesting thread! LOL

Ash

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
This is one interesting thread! LOL

Ash
lol no doubt...its cuz i made it :D lol just kiddin witcha

[Desert Arabian]

I'm not worried about the thread you make...I am worried about the things you are doing to you rats.

You used pine bedding/bought pine bedding. When you did your research before you bought rats (that's what your supposed to do) didn't you read about how cedar and pine can kill rats?????? :confused: :confused: If it wasn't for Luckies clearing up your mistakes i.e. over dosing rats on suppliments and vitamins and saying it's ok to give rats Hamster food, you would be educating the public in a bad fashion. I tried to hold this in for a long time, but I can't hold it any longer....I'm sorry but I tried REALLY REALLY REALLY hard.

(That's all I'm gunna say....don't need to fight/argue. ;) :) )

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
saying it's ok to give rats Hamster food,

You can feed rats hamster food. I never knew that, o gee. This Luckies4me, always teaching people ;)

Ash

[Desert Arabian]

No...it's not a good idea to give rats hamster/gerbil food. Luckies just cleared that up for everyone. :cool:

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
No...it's not a good idea to give rats hamster/gerbil food. Luckies just cleared that up for everyone. :cool:

I know I was just kiddin, LOL. N/nm if you read this

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
I'm not worried about the thread you make...I am worried about the things you are doing to you rats.

You used pine bedding/bought pine bedding. When you did your research before you bought rats (that's what your supposed to do) didn't you read about how cedar and pine can kill rats?????? :confused: :confused: If it wasn't for Luckies clearing up your mistakes i.e. over dosing rats on suppliments and vitamins and saying it's ok to give rats Hamster food, you would be educating the public in a bad fashion. I tried to hold this in for a long time, but I can't hold it any longer....I'm sorry but I tried REALLY REALLY REALLY hard.

(That's all I'm gunna say....don't need to fight/argue. ;) :) )
like i said, i didnt have the internet, and i couldnt find any books on rats, so i just asked the petshops and the vet....they told me what they thought they knew was good or bad, and they really didnt say much in the bad section...they told me that shavings are fine, that gerbil and hamster food is healthy to use for a full diet, that porphyrin is normal and nothing to worry about...i got upset one day when i saw Frisco bruxing cuz i didnt know what it was so i took him to the vet (against my mothers will...got in biiig trouble) and he said that frisco has brain damage and that it would also contribute to his hyperactive behaviour....they told me all this crap and when i finally got the internet, i realised that they were wrong...
as u can see, i corrected myself when talking about the gerbil/hamster food...she was referring to the stuff with alphalpha and corn in it, and i was referring to just the regular mix of seeds kind (the kind that IS safe)

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


I know I was just kiddin, LOL. N/nm if you read this

Oh..ok...sorry...I'm a little dumb/slow when it comes to jokes. Hehe. :p :p :o

P.S. I answered your rat cage price question under Rat Cages

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover


Oh..ok...sorry...I'm a little dumb/slow when it comes to jokes. Hehe. :p :p :o

P.S. I answered your rat cage price question under Rat Cages

LOL, I didn't think anyone would get it :rolleyes: stupid joke any way ;)

I know that is outragiouse I would never ever pay that much!

Ash

[luckies4me]

YLL a link or links if I find more about Ehtoxyquin effecting rats...very scary stuff!:eek:

rats (http://www.theaviary.com/ethoxy.shtml)


"Ethoxyquin has low oral toxicity in test animals. The oral LD50 of 20% and 50%, ethoxyquin in rats is 800-1,000mg/kg and the oral LD50 for 70% ethoxyquin in rats is 3,300 mg/kg. The oral LD50s in mice for 0.125% and 0.25% ethoxyquin are 85.7 -94.0 mg/kg and 98.5-112.1 mg/kg, respectively. This compound is a mild skin and eye irritant in test animals. Ethoxyquin was found to significantly decrease body weight, food intake, and occasionally growth rate in rats, cows, dogs, chickens, and mice exposed to prechronic and chronic doses in animal feed. In these studies, ethoxyquin caused a significant increase in liver and kidney weights in test animals. In male rats, adverse effects observed included scars on kidneys, inclusions in hepatic cells, and kidney lesions in the higher dosed groups (500-4000 ppm). Effects characteristic of chronic glomerulus nephrosis in male rats exposed to 4,000 ppm ethoxyquin were observed. In dogs fed doses of ethoxyquin ranging from 10-100 mg/kg, adverse effects observed included anorexia, abdominal pain, and increased liver and kidney weights. Dose-dependent exogenous pigment was seen in all groups. These animals also exhibited an increased fat content in the collecting tubules of kidneys, suggestive of fatty nephrosis. Limited data were found on the carcinogenic potential ofethoxyquin. This chemical has been found to be a weak bladder carcinogen in rats."

[luckies4me]

And if you can undertand any of this, lol...


http://www.biochemj.org/bj/279/bj2790385.htm


and another:
http://budgies-n-tiels.com/ethox.html


I am sure you can find more on your own;)

[ChewmonkeyBC]

Iv never bought yogurt drops for my ratties....but i think around here a small(very small)box is about 3-4 dollars?just guessing.......

[popcornbird]

Kaytee? Killer? Whatever! My friend's cockatiel is 25 years old. He eats Kaytee, and has been eating Kaytee seeds forever. The vet says he's one of the healthiest birds he ever met. I don't think Kaytee would be such a well known brand sold everywhere, a food that all animals consume on daily bases if it was so bad.

[Desert Arabian]

POPCORNBIRD- I LLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU! OMG- FINIALY, SOMEONE WHO ARGREES WITH ME (AND MY MOM) ABOUT THIS KAYTEE B.S!!

Ok...sorry, lol....just had to share my excitment. :D :D :D

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Kaytee? Killer? Whatever! My friend's cockatiel is 25 years old. He eats Kaytee, and has been eating Kaytee seeds forever. The vet says he's one of the healthiest birds he ever met. I don't think Kaytee would be such a well known brand sold everywhere, a food that all animals consume on daily bases if it was so bad.
u make a good point, but i wish i could agree with u about the whole not selling them if they were bad thing...what about pine and cedar shavings? they still sell those, and they kill, yet people buy them every day :confused: triaminic used to carry a drug that killed hundreds of innocent children...:( ....ciggarettes! alchohol! i can name a million things that take peoples and animals lives every day, but people just dont see the light! :mad:
im not trying to start anything, and personally, i dont belive that there is a really high chance of anything since there is such a small quantity, as suggested with ur friends bird...i wouldnt risk using kaytee though, because even if their isnt a high chance, there is still a chance.
luckies4me do u have any statistics on kaytee? i would now like to know just how high the risk is....

[popcornbird]

I just checked my birds' seed bag. It does not have ethoxyquin in the ingredients. Does that mean its alright? I don't know, but when I got my birds, everyone told me kaytee is the best brand. I always buy kaytee because its the one with the clearest ingredients in cockatiel food, and everyone told me its the best. Now I'm confused. :(

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by popcornbird
I just checked my birds' seed bag. It does not have ethoxyquin in the ingredients. Does that mean its alright? I don't know, but when I got my birds, everyone told me kaytee is the best brand. I always buy kaytee because its the one with the clearest ingredients in cockatiel food, and everyone told me its the best. Now I'm confused. :(
it shouldnt be in the seeds...its a drug, so it should only be in the yoggies...unless they have something else out there with that in it....eep now im gonna be paranoid lol

[popcornbird]

I just asked about kaytee and ethoxyquin on a cockatiel board. I'll tell you their response tomorrow hopefully. Most people there are VERY knowledgable about birds. I know its bad for rats as luckiesforme stated, but I need to know if its ok for birds and if kaytee is an good brand for bird seed. I'll let you all know what they say.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by popcornbird
I just asked about kaytee and ethoxyquin on a cockatiel board. I'll tell you their response tomorrow hopefully. Most people there are VERY knowledgable about birds. I know its bad for rats as luckiesforme stated, but I need to know if its ok for birds and if kaytee is an good brand for bird seed. I'll let you all know what they say.
yes, thats a good idea..after all rats and birds are 2 very different species..

[Desert Arabian]

Ethoxyquin is a preservative, by the way.

[luckies4me]

Yes it's a preservative but it's also a chemcial. The company who makes it packages it in bottles that have skulls and crossbones on it....what does that tell you? It's poison.


Kaytee knows they are doing tons of things wrong and that is why they NEVER reply to letters asking about Ethoxyquin that they use in their products. If you wish, write them yourself and you will get NO response, like I did.


Here is a snippet from the bird site....I will send you the link to the bird site that talks about Ethoxyquin in bird feed as well....

THERE IS NO NEED TO RISK THE HEALTH OF YOUR ANIMAL. WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE...FOR YOUR ANIMAL TO DIE? THEN YOU WILL CHANGE FOOD? THAT'S JUST WRONG, WHY TAKE THE RISK?


"
Ethoxyquin
By Gillian Willis
There was a considerable amount of discussion regarding ethoxyquin as a preservative in bird diets on CAGTAG-L back in March of this year. I have gathered a lot of material on ethoxyquin, but just haven't had the time to go through it all and to come up with some conclusions regarding its safety or otherwise.

Ethoxyquin is not used as a preservative for HUMAN foods with the following exception: . It is permitted to "promote colour retention" in paprika and ground chili pepper in a maximum concentration of 100 ppm.

The maximum allowable residue in eggs, meat, poultry, apples, pears, poultry fat and livers for HUMAN use is 0.5 ppm.

In ANIMAL feeds, the maximum allowable concentration of ethoxyquin is 150 ppm.

Lafebers provided me with information on the concentration of ethoxyquin in their avian products and it is less considerably less than 150 ppm. Neither Kaytee nor Roudybush responded to my letters requesting information on the concentrations of ethoxyquin in their products.

So what are the potential concerns regarding ethoxyquin? This chemical is not innocuous as has been suggested. Attached is part of an earlier post of mine in response to a question regarding the safety of ethoxyquin for birds:

"Interesting question. I was not familiar with the ethoxyquin controversy. However after quickly perusing the toxicity data (abstracts) there may be reason for concern. The acute oral LD 50 of ethoxyquin in rats is 800 mg/kg and in mice it is 1730 mg/kg.

Its chronic toxicity in animals is reported as "apparently low."
Chronic feeding studies in rats of 0.2 % of ethoxyquin in the diet caused transient depression in growth rate, At necropsy, damage to kidneys, liver and thyroid gland were seen in many of the male rats but not in the females.
In another study, diets containing 0.5 % ethoxyquin fed to rats for up to 18 months, produced renal lesions in all of the study animals.
Continuous administration to rats fed a diet of 0.2 % ethoxyquin, caused tumors in some of the animals according to one study.
Toxicity in chicks was "significantly greater when the diet was low in protein." (Details of this study were not given).
The above abstracts suggest that long-term exposure ito this chemical in our birds is a reason for concern."
As I have mentioned, I do not have the information together in order to offer you guidance as to whether you should use ethoxyquin-preserved avian diets or not. You will have to decide what you feel most comfortable with. There are good diets available that contain no preservatives and others that contain preservatives that have been approved for human use. Ethoxyquin has not been approved as a preservative for human use."



Now I am not saying I know everything and I have yet to study EVERYthing there is out there about this chemical, but if is even the slightest chance of my animals getting sick of of this I won't use it, period. Which is why my animals and I eat organic foods as much as we can, I hate pesticides and chemicals etc. I am not saying Kaytee is going to kill every animal but it's really remarkable that they NEVER answered my questions about the drug nor tons of other peoples, whereas other bird feed companies did respond and gave the actual amount they use in their products. To me if a company does not respond that makes me a little suspicious. Feed what you want, after all it is you as the owner who makes the end decision. But it is healthier to use a product that is naturally preserved with Vitamin E and not a chemical. Sorry but it just seems like common sense to me.
:confused:

Now of course there are a lot of vets/people etc. who think this chemical preservative is safe and fine, but for me I just simply won't use it. I have talked to vets/dog breeders etc. and by hearing what the say it has certaintly changed my view on this product.

I too used to feed Kaytee to my tiels and then I switched them to pellets which are a lot better for birds. We then grew our own seed and gave that to the birds as treats.

It's up to you, take the risk or don't....but I'm not, period.

[Jessica12345]

we got a big pack (about 4 inch. high and 2 inch. wide) for 5$

[Aspen and Misty]

Originally posted by Jessica12345
we got a big pack (about 4 inch. high and 2 inch. wide) for 5$


Of what? Yogies? Or of Kaytee food? I also use Kaytee food. I use there lab blocks and seed mixes and my ratties love it, expesially there Huney kind, mm mmm. :D


Ash

[wolf_Q]

I have a small can of Vitakraft choc-yogurt drops for my dogs...I'm not sure if this is the same thing you were referring to. They love them! :)

[Jessica12345]

yogies:D

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by Aspen and Misty



Of what? Yogies? Or of Kaytee food? I also use Kaytee food. I use there lab blocks and seed mixes and my ratties love it, expesially there Huney kind, mm mmm. :D


Ash


Does their lab blocks contain Ethoyxquin? I am just curious because a friend told me they are going to start using Vitamin E now instead of Ethoxyquin in which all their products would be deemed safe. :)

[Aspen and Misty]

I dunno. I don't keep the bags. There food goes straight into a container and the bags are throwin away.

Ash

[popcornbird]

OMG! I got like a billion responses! :eek:

Here is some of what they say.
They said there have been theories that it is bad, however, it has been added to pet and human foods for decades and has never been proven as a cause of problems. Many of them said their Avian vets recommended Kaytee as a good seed brand for their birds.



Here's what a person said:


The scientific studies show that Ethoxyquin is causes problems in dogs. There haven't been any scientific studies to show that it causes problems in birds. I searched the internet for legitimate scientific studies where there is evidence that this causes problems in birds and I have not been able to find even one. This is an interesting article that seems less prejudiced by all the hype. Hope this helps some. Iris

Here are some links they provided me with.

http://www.lafeber.com/articles/ethoxyquin.htm

http://www.siriusdog.com/ethoxyquin.htm

And here's what one more person said:



"5. Why do you use ethoxyquin as a preservative?
Kaytee does include the preservative or antioxidant, ethoxyquin as an ingredient in the fortified foods and treats we manufacture. The exact® product line contains ethoxyquin or a natural preservative (mixed tocopherols) depending on the product. Antioxidants prevent the destruction of nutrients, and prevent rancidity (fat oxidation) which creates off-flavors and off-odors that dramatically decrease palatability and food consumption. Ethoxyquin is an FDA approved and dependable antioxidant. Kaytee formulates the products with levels of ethoxyquin less than the recommended use and has been tested and fed to over 100 species of birds at the Kaytee Avian Research Center for over 17 years with no related concerns. For more information please see the Kaytee Technical Focus, Antioxidants and Preservatives. "

"Approximately 400 birds at the Kaytee Avian Research Center were maintained at F.D.A. approved levels of ethoxyquin (20% higher than the normal use level) for a period of five years with no unusual neoplastic activity observed. In canines, the most ethoxyquin sensitive species known, levels of approximately four times the approved use levels are required to induce cellular changes indicative of the onset of cancer. Monitoring has been continued at the lower, recommended level for an additional 11 years (16 years in total) without any negative results.

For the last 11 years, over 4,000 exotic birds (100+ species) have been fed recommended levels of ethoxyquin and been monitored (blood chemistry, CBC, etc.) by veterinarians at the Avian Research Center. Any mortality experience in the flock has been specifically evaluated by histopathology for ethoxyquin-specific changes that will occur in liver tissue when toxic levels are present. To date, no ethoxyquin-related tissue changes have occurred, even in the 16 year feeding group. This is the only test ever conducted on ethoxyquin use in psittacine species and is now one of the longest and largest tests conducted in any specie. There is no legitimate reason to believe that any of the commercial antioxidants are a significant risk compared to the risk of unprotected food products. "

-this is from www.kaytee.com/ask_the_experts/antioxidants_and_preservatives/

I am guessing this is a 'yes'


http://www.kaytee.com/ask_the_experts/faq/

I feel much better now. What do you all think?

[luckies4me]

Oh no! You shouldn't do that. If your pet (any kind) should happen to get suddenly ill sometimes the vets ask you what is in the ingredients to determine if there is a certain reaction to food etc.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by luckies4me
Oh no! You shouldn't do that. If your pet (any kind) should happen to get suddenly ill sometimes the vets ask you what is in the ingredients to determine if there is a certain reaction to food etc.

Shouldn't do what? :confused:

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by popcornbird
OMG! I got like a billion responses! :eek:

Here is some of what they say.
They said there have been theories that it is bad, however, it has been added to pet and human foods for decades and has never been proven as a cause of problems. Many of them said their Avian vets recommended Kaytee as a good seed brand for their birds.



Here's what a person said:



I feel much better now. What do you all think?


Um...... I posted most of that myself. Yes some people don't think it is bad but a LOT do and I simply won't take the chanc, and PCB if you KNEW pellets are a much better diet than seeds.

[popcornbird]

Ohhhhhhhhhh. You mean throw the bag away? I do that too! :(

[luckies4me]

PCB: This whole topic was about rats, and how Ethoxyquin is bad for rats which is all the study I have done...and on dogs.

If you feel it is safe for your birds by all means use Kaytee...but I won't use it for my rats. Like I said we always fed our tiels Kaytee when we bred them. Now though all our birds are fed pellets which are a lot healthier.


BTW I see you figured it out lol so I won't say anything about your question.:p

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by luckies4me



Um...... I posted most of that myself. Yes some people don't think it is bad but a LOT do and I simply won't take the chanc, and PCB if you KNEW pellets are a much better diet than seeds.

I KNOW about pellets and I KNOW what my birds need to eat. My birds don't eat only seed. They eat a variety of veggies, rice, whole grain bread, and other healthy foods along with seeds. Seeds are a neccessity, but should not be the only thing a bird gets. Pellets are recommended for birds that do not get other foods in their diet, but even then, it is recommended that they still get seed in their diet. I know what my birds need to eat. I've had them for 3 1/2 years, did tons of research, asked the vet MANY times. My birds eat a very balanced healthy diet. I asked the vet and the people on the cockatiel board if they have to have pellets, and they said its important if they don't eat enough veggies and other foods along with their seeds. My birds LOVE veggies and eat it everyday. And I posted what they said because I promised to let everyone know what they were saying. I like to get more opinions than one, ok? :rolleyes: I know you were talking about rats, but I became concerned, hoping that wouldn't be the case with birds too, and wanted to make sure.

[luckies4me]

You don't really have to keep the bag, I have a list of ingredients I write down for each new food. Once I bought these neat little birdy and small animal treats (they sell them at Petsmart) and in two hours after feeding them to my birds they both died within 30 minutes of eachother....and I had had these budgies for years!


The only way we figured out what the problem was was by looking at the ingredients in the treats...which contains some kind of chemical preservative.

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by luckies4me
You don't really have to keep the bag, I have a list of ingredients I write down for each new food. Once I bought these neat little birdy and small animal treats (they sell them at Petsmart) and in two hours after feeding them to my birds they both died within 30 minutes of eachother....and I had had these budgies for years!


The only way we figured out what the problem was was by looking at the ingredients in the treats...which contains some kind of chemical preservative.

OMG! :eek::eek: WHAT WAS THAT TREAT?

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by popcornbird


I KNOW about pellets and I KNOW what my birds need to eat. My birds don't eat only seed. They eat a variety of veggies, rice, whole grain bread, and other healthy foods along with seeds. Seeds are a neccessity, but should not be the only thing a bird gets. Pellets are recommended for birds that do not get other foods in their diet, but even then, it is recommended that they still get seed in their diet. I know what my birds need to eat. I've had them for 3 1/2 years, did tons of research, asked the vet MANY times. My birds eat a very balanced healthy diet. I asked the vet and the people on the cockatiel board if they have to have pellets, and they said its important if they don't eat enough veggies and other foods along with their seeds. My birds LOVE veggies and eat it everyday. And I posted what they said because I promised to let everyone know what they were saying. I like to get more opinions than one, ok? :rolleyes: I know you were talking about rats, but I became concerned, hoping that wouldn't be the case with birds too, and wanted to make sure.


Umm... I don't know where you get off saying I said you don't know how to feed your birds. I know you take care of them well or else they wouldn't look healthy..and I have seen your pics of them, they look healthy. So you don't have to give me the roll eyes effect ok? I never said you didn't know how to take care of your pets....you are about the only person I talk to that has actually done research on their birds!

[luckies4me]

Originally posted by popcornbird


OMG! :eek::eek: WHAT WAS THAT TREAT?


I don't remember what is was called but I can find out. I just need to go to the Petsmart site and look. They are little tiny berry treats..they made my rats very ill with diahrea too but they killed my birds very fast, and my birdies were rescues too. Tweety and Snowflake. :( Now I only have two budgies, my Bourkes and that's it. :( They all lived together too.

[popcornbird]

That's ok. I'm sorry that I misunderstood you. My apologies. But anyway, my birds refuse to touch pellets but they love veggies, and the vet told me that a seed and veggie diet is actually better than an only pellet diet. They need variety, and they get that. :)

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by luckies4me



I don't remember what is was called but I can find out. I just need to go to the Petsmart site and look. They are little tiny berry treats..they made my rats very ill with diahrea too but they killed my birds very fast, and my birdies were rescues too. Tweety and Snowflake. :( Now I only have two budgies, my Bourkes and that's it. :( They all lived together too.

:(:(:( So sorry to hear about your birds. You should've sued them! Were they nutriberries? I've never given them to my birds but people on tiel talk do all the time.

[luckies4me]

I don't think they were Nutriberries no. The weird thing is that only two of my budgies died and the other two were unaffected, but my rats got sick too. The vet had no clue why that happened and was really shocked that the birds died so fast. I had to keep them in my freezer all weekend until I could get an appointment on Monday and then they did a necropsy on both of them. :eek:

[popcornbird]

:(:(:( Poor babies. I can't believe they would sell something so dangerous at the pet store. Do you think they could have chocked on it or something like that?

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by YellowLabLover
Ethoxyquin is a preservative, by the way.
oh ok i thought it was a drug, thanx!

[luckies4me]

It's a preservative but it is a chemical preservative used as a rubber stabilizer.:)

[Daisylover]

Geez, I wish bunny people would get this excited about the fallacy that alfalfa pellets are ok for adult rabbits and that pine and cedar shavings are acceptable to use as well.......

Just because the pet suppliers say these items are ok and the pet stores sell them, doesn't mean that these products are healthy for use with animals. You gotta remember that these guys are out to earn a buck and do not necessarily have the best interests of our animal friends at heart. And a lot of them are in denial anyways and won't believe what scientific tests have shown because "we've ALWAYS sold this product"..... :mad: In fact, I asked a pet store the other day why they didn't sell timmy hay-based pellets and they said their distributor didn't have them on their order inventory list. So the other part of the problem is what the pet stores can purchase, then resell. I told them I thought it was crazy that they had no say in who they can order from. What a racket.

What a bunch of (for the lack of a word that I could use here) hooey!!!!

[CathyBogart]

Originally posted by popcornbird
I just checked my birds' seed bag. It does not have ethoxyquin in the ingredients. Does that mean its alright? I don't know, but when I got my birds, everyone told me kaytee is the best brand. I always buy kaytee because its the one with the clearest ingredients in cockatiel food, and everyone told me its the best. Now I'm confused. :(

If it does not contain the Ethoxyquin then it should be all right. I did find a link from an avain website on the dangers of the preservative. Sorry if this has already been posted, but here it is:

http://www.avianweb.com/ethoxyquin.htm

I could not ever see myself feeding this stuff to my animals, even if some people have had luck with it. I've had customers tell me at work that Cedar bedding has worked great for them for years. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying to talk them out of using it.

Here's a good thread on the Rat Fan Club forums, a "What did you do wrong with your first rat" thread. A lot of people said they used pine shavings and/or fed Kaytee.

http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index.php?action=display;board=8;threadid=13543;st art=0#136646

[Desert Arabian]

Ethoxyquin is not a pesticide..... it is a preservative....

[wolfsoul]

where does it say pescticide? :confused: i only see preservative

[Desert Arabian]

She changed it....she edited the post.

[luckies4me]

Who edited the post?


Guys it is both a preservative and a chemcial, not a pesticide.

[luckies4me]

Thank you WolfChan....I practically LIVE at the RFC!:p

[Desert Arabian]

Originally posted by luckies4me
Who edited the post?


Guys it is both a preservative and a chemcial, not a pesticide.

WolfChan

Yea, I know that.

[luckies4me]

Ok lol... I thought you were talking about me at first.

[CathyBogart]

Have you ever been so stuck in one debate that your thoughts continued on into the next thing you tried to do? Yes, I fixed my post. :P It was only up that way for ~10 minutes, probably less, before I realized that my brain was still at kingsnake.com.

:P