I'd Never Own A...

[ParNone]

I've been reading a book by Brian Kilcommons, a dog trainer,
who trained under Barbara Woodhouse, titled "Paws to
Consider". It's more or less an analysis of each of the breeds
to help people pick out the right breed for themselves.
There's a section were he listed the Not for Everyone Breeds,
based on his experience, which included dogs like Border Collies,
JRTs, Aussies, Saint Bernards, Weimaraners etc.

He also did some internet polling of other pet professionals and
came up with a list of least favorite breeds. I was shocked
to see my dog on the also ran list, so I thought I'd post it to see
others reactions:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd Never Own A...

When we asked other pet professionals (trainers, groomers, vet
techs, boarding kennel operators, and pet sitters) what their
least favorite breeds were, their top ten responses were as
follows:

Chow Chow (95% of our respondents listed Chows for
temperament reasons)

American Cocker (all defended some Cockers as nice, but others
were not)

Dalmatian

Lhasa Apso

Old English Sheepdog

Shar Pei (health and temperament reasons)

Akita

Bulldog (health reasons)

Rottweiler

Pit Bull

Also-rans were untrained German Shepherd Dogs, small Poodles,
Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Dobermans, Westies, Scotties, Irish
Setters, Saint Bernards, any wolf hybrid, Collies(health reasons)
and Yorkies.

Remember folks: We don't make the news, we just report it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Throughout the book as he's analyzing the breeds, he does make
note that most of the problem breeds are due to their popularity,
which led to bad breeding. So if you could get say a well breed
Cocker it'd be a great dog, it's just that your chance of finding
one isn't very good.

I'm kind of glad I didn't read this book before I went and got
my Collie, because based on his comments about them, it
probably would have given me pause.

Par...

[robinh]

I'm rambling, but... sometimes I think we would miss out on some of the most rewarding companions if we listened to the "professionals" tell us which dog we should or shouldn't have.

My boyfriend has had Chesapeake Bay Retrievers for over 40 years and he loves them. They are a high-energy, hard-headed breed, but once they figure out who is the alpha there is no more loyal and faithful companion. Since he and I have been together we've loved and lost set of parents (old age), their son (old age)and granddaughter (parvo). We now have another of the grandaughters. She is the nicest dog you'd ever want to meet. She is so loving she took in our dachshund when we first brought him home and has been his mom ever since.

We recently got a Yorkie puppy (my 20th anniversary present). Another one of those high-energy, hard-headed breeds, but she sure has been a joy. Her nickname is MollyMonster (because she gets into things faster than you can keep up), but that would not keep me from getting another of her breed.

I've learned a lot here on the PetTalkBoard about other breeds I never would have considered before. It's been really educational for me and I think I would rather trust the experience of a PetTalk friend who has had the pet in a home environment.

:o I hope this sounds right - I definitely don't want to come off sounding condesending or patronizing, but I think we all love our dogs - problems and all. Sometimes I just hate it when a "professional" tells me what I should and shouldn't have.

[primabella]

interesting...

i don't like to get too much feedback on a breed. when i was looking into different breeds, shelties were classified as "barkers with health problems" i found this everywhere i looked but realized that all dogs bark and all of them have their health problems. sometimes you just need to look at it in a bigger way. i don't know if i'm making sense :o anyways, we got the sheltie and he's not a barker at all (unless he's scared) and i'm hoping he lives a healthy life.
my uncle has owned two dobies and they are nothing but big sweeties! some feedback is good, but not too much when you start to really question yourself to the point where you start all over again. did that make sense? ;)

[robinh]

I think you said what I meant - just clearer and to the point. :o Wish I hadn't taken so many words to say the same thing. Thanks!!

[Desert Arabian]

Every breed barks (Basenji's yodel), every breed bites, every breed has health issues, every breed loves humans, every breed is special in their own little way.

That sounds like an interesting book- I might check it out.

As long as my dog loves me, I'll love it back just as much- I don't care what breed it is, or what "professionals" think about that breed (when I get a dog). A dog is a dog to me.

[jenluckenbach]

OK, as a pet professional (18 years worth) I will comment on the breeds listed (my opinion, only)
Chows...........Agree 100%. They cannot be trusted. they may not always be bad, but would you want to tempt fate with YOUR child?

Cocker..........Agree 95%. They used to ba a wonderful breed until over breeding RUINED them. They WILL have one of the following problems, if not more that one:
1) biter
2) bad, stinky, smelly skin and or ears
3) not house trainable (pees everytime you look at it)

Dalmation....all they need is an owner who is in control, not a dog that is in control

Lhasa......bad breeding is again your problem.

Sheepdog.....other than it being a grroming nightmare that no human (except a "show person") can handle I am not sure about them being on this list


Shar pei.....what they said

Akita......see dalmation

Pit bull.........I think this might be reputation alone scaring people

I'll skip the others that were grouped together except
Scotties......I have NEVER met a Scottie that did NOT bite. They all do.

Just my 2 cents

[ParNone]

Hi ya'll!

Great discussion going. I'm kind of twik or tween on this. I don't
think you should completely disregard a breed because of its
potential drawbacks, because yes all breeds have them. But I
also don't believe in going in blind to a breed either. Better to
know what the likely drawbacks are and make an informed
decision. I wish my 80+ year old grandparents had before they
got a JRT and were shocked that it was energetic to the max.

I have a friend who's been a dog groomer for about 8 years and
I did talk to her before I got a Collie and I did take her insight
into account before I got one. In fact, her words about the
grooming requirements of the Rough, influenced me to get a
Smooth and I'm glad I listened to her about that. At the time
I really did love the look of the Rough better, but now that I
have Oz and love him to death, I'm thrilled I don't have all that
hair to deal with. So I dunno I think I definitely give some
weight to a professional's view based on their experience.
And Jen, your comments echo my friend's almost verbatim.

Par...

[Nomilynn]

We had an Old English Sheepdog. I would love to have another one. She was the biggest sweetie. Other than being a bit of a dunce (she had a tendency to hit her head on things.. didn't really watch where she was doing :rolleyes: ) she was a great dog :) I don't know enough about the others to say anything.

[primabella]

Originally posted by robinh
I think you said what I meant - just clearer and to the point. :o Wish I hadn't taken so many words to say the same thing. Thanks!!

hey, great minds think alike! ;)

i agree with what YLL said - all dogs have their problems but are all special in their own way. i'll love any dog as long as they love me back :)

[robinh]

And everyone here has a great mind - they love their dogs (whatever kind they are).

I'll agree mine all have their quirks, but I really can't imagine my life without them. And the best thing about dogs is if you love them, they'll love you! :D

[Karen]

Both Shelties my bosses have owned when I have been working there were "barkers." That does seem to be a trait many Shelties have. Their old dog (now deceased of old age) barked at intruders, which included actual people, birds who flew by the window, family members she had known her whole life, leaves on the lawn outside, squirrels, people who sneezed, etc., etc. And by barked, I do not mean one yip. I mean repeated, loud, insistent barking for a least a minute most times.

That's, I think, what people mean by Shelties barking a lot.

Yes, our Great Dane barked, but only when it was important! You could go for weeks at a time without hearing her bark.

But I am sure there are Shelties who aren't "barky" and Danes who are, everything varies from dog to dog!

To exclude a who breed because of problems with some is just unfair!

[jenluckenbach]

Originally posted by Karen

To exclude a who breed because of problems with some is just unfair!
True. But when the GREATER majority of a breed is know to have a trait that would not work in your household, you should stay away from it.
example) for a minute we will assume 90% of shelties bark a lot and you live in a row home with paper thin walls and your immediate next door neighbor calls he cops when your golfish blows a bubble, you wouldn't PURPOSELY go get a sheltie, would you??

[delidog]

wow!!! how interesting!!!!!
I've read laot of him and his wifes' stuff...one of my favorites is
"Tales From the Barkside"...excellent book.....

sorry to see al those on "The List!!"

Dalmation?!?!?!?!?!
Spotties?!?!?!?
I won't tell Deli and Joey!!!!!;)

[KYS]

I am only a pet owner, but I am in the middle
on what the author wrote:

I do believe that when choosing a breed, you should
consider the main traits.
For me since I am on the couch potato side, I would stay
away from high energy dogs that
have a strong working drive.
But than again every dog somewhat molds into your
living routine up to a point. SO I guess I would use
the breed standard as a guide only, not to
be cut and dry.
I also think it is important for any potential dog owner
to do their homework. Their are way to many
dogs in shelters today, because a owner
could not handle their dog or the dog did not fit
into their life style.
Just my humble opinion.

[wolf_Q]

I'm surprised that Siberian Husky is not on the list!! I swear everyone thinks that they can't be trained...

Now, I've worked with dogs (like jenluckenbach...though not nearly as long!!) and I don't agree completely, but I do somewhat. I think the big problem is that these dogs are so *popular* that it comes down to bad breeding, and well, if there's more of one breed, there's going to be more with behavior problems. From my own PERSONAL EXPERIENCES (no, I have not seen enough examples of each breed to judge completely) I would never own...

Amerian Cocker Spaniel....I've gotta agree with Jenluckenbach...Ok, so I've met a few really great cockers, I've just met a lot more that I didn't like!

Akita....I have had 2 bad experiences with the akita puppy from hell. Evil, psychotic, unpredictable dog. On the other hand, I have had a few other akitas that were GREAT dogs. So, in no way am I saying akitas are evil, but I don't think this puppy had the right owners. I think akitas really need a firm owner and lots of socialization. But, just because of my experience with that dog, I'll admit...I'm a little timid of them....they are absolutely gorgeous dogs though.

Lhasa Apso, shih-tzu, maltese, mini poodle, mini schnauzer, maltese...Actually, if I had worked in grooming before getting Reggie and Smokey, I doubt I'd have those breeds. The thing is, we get SO MANY of those dogs, we get mean ones more often...if that makes any sense....we actually get a lot of nice ones too (especially schnauzers), it's just that so many small dogs are very nippy. My own poodle (Smokey) would gladly bite anyone who tried to make him do something he didn't want to!

American Eskimo. I've never met one that didn't completely FREAK OUT, and try to mangle me when clipping the nails. Other breeds I've noticed are crazy about nails are chihuahuas and min pins.

Just for fur reasons, I don't think I'd go for a dog with a real big, fluffy coat like a rough collie, as well, nobody knows how to brush their dogs.

Now the breeds that always get a bad rap....I have never met a mean german shepard, chow, rottweiler, or pit bull.

Anyway, grooming really is not the best judge to go on. Especially since most people do not try to socialize and get them used to this process, so well, they completely freak out about it. How would you like it if you were in a strange place and somebody was shaving your butt?? LOL. I'm sure if I met even some of the dogs who wanted to eat me in a different place, such as a home environment, they would not act the way that they did.

Popularity is a big price to pay for dogs...Somebody told me that the largest number of dog bites right now have come from Labrador Retrievers...I don't know if that's true, but I can believe it. Not because they are mean dogs, it's just because there are so MANY of them.

I guess not everyone agrees with me, but I really think it's important to research a breed before you get the dog. I'm with KYS! Obviously, the traits will vary with the dog....Nebo is a "typical husky" in some ways, and completely not in others! :rolleyes:

[lovemyshiba]

I was a little skeptical before we got Kito--everything I read about Shibas was about their strong desire to be independent, tough to train (but once you do, they never forget it), basically that they weren't the cuddly little furball that I had in mind. I'm so glad we have him though--he makes me so happy. He is PERFECT size for our apartment, and yes, he can be a little bossy, but can be put into his place by us. He knows that we are "above" him, the leaders of his pack (actually my husband is), and he does like to cuddle up with me in bed.
As for Abbey, well, I've always loved beagles--my mom never wanted one, she said they smell, but find me a dog that goes outside every day and doesn't get ANY smell to them.
I would never own---
dalmation--only because my mom has had 2--the first one was inbred, and went to a lot of doctors and had tests, and died before he turned one, this one she has now is just not friendly--and he has a lot of health problems
chow--I've never known one, but heard many things about them that I don't like
collie--there's one in my neighborhood, and she is the meanest thing, my dogs growl at her when they see her, and she tries to come after them and us
cocker spaniels--2 in my neighborhood, both are unfriendly (as are their owners), and I once was bitten by one
poodle--again, live near one, and it's a total spazz, and is very unfriendly

These are just my choices, I know there are a ton of wonderful chows, poodles, collies, and dalmations, and I hope no one takes offense to these--I'm basing it all on personal experience, and I'm sure the owners have a lot to do with the unfriendliness of these dogs.

[primabella]

Originally posted by jenluckenbach

True. But when the GREATER majority of a breed is know to have a trait that would not work in your household, you should stay away from it.
example) for a minute we will assume 90% of shelties bark a lot and you live in a row home with paper thin walls and your immediate next door neighbor calls he cops when your golfish blows a bubble, you wouldn't PURPOSELY go get a sheltie, would you??

i would if i didn't like my neighbor ;)

i know i would probably never own a dog who is a slow learner. i'm just impatient when it comes to training them. i was going nuts when mickey took forever to learn "sit". :p anyways, it varies among each dog. my dad was really worried about getting a sheltie because his friend told him a neighbor has one and she bugs him because she's a barker. i don't know. mickey just doesn't bark. unless he's scared, or barking at passerbys outside. it's a very unusual thing for him to bark. okay, i'll stop...i'm babbling here :D