"Taboo, food"

[COCatMama]

There was a show on one of those 'discovery' type channels on satellite the other night, it is a show about 'taboo' subjects. The show that was on a couple nights ago, and they ran ads showing a poor dog that was about to be EATEN! this made me very very angry and i refused to watch the show. Other cultures may eat dogs and cats but i object to this, cats and dogs look at us as their friends/packmates and i think it is betrayal for people to kill and eat them. And no, I do not eat meat of any kind.

How horrible , lalania !! I once saw people eating brains out of an ape's scull ; I nearly fainted !!!:mad: :mad:

[COCatMama]

oh that's just SICK, we're so closely related to apes too....SOME PEOPLE are just twisted and evil I SWEAR!

[mugsy]

Not very appetizing I agree! I eat meat, but the thought of eating a companion animal just grosses me out. I do realize, however, that it is a cultural thing. I had a Taiwanese Socialogy prof at school that told us about his culture and what was considered delicacies and we all just about got sick. The monkey brains thing about did me in.

[COCatMama]

some ppl eat the brains while the animal is still alive, as far as I'm concerned that is just sick and wrong.

[mugsy]

I'm definitely not arguing that one!

[RockyRoad]

How gross!! I know that people in other countries have to eat those kind of things in order to survive!! Scary! On fear factor these people had to eat live slugs. That is really gross and mean because the slugs are living and they are getting killed by people eating them. Plus, they are slugs! Wouldn't they like eject their slime for protection or whatever they do? :mad:

[COCatMama]

I didn't even think slugs are technically edible, I thought they secrete some kind of chemical...*shrug*
People that do mean things to animals don't have a conscience as far as I'm concerned.

[mugsy]

The scary thing is that these practices are NOT survival motivated since they pay BIG bucks for these "delicacies" (forgive the spelling....I'm sick!lol)

[COCatMama]

looks okay to me! :D

[mugsy]

Oh good, I'm so glad I'm not TOTALLY braindead today!! God I feel like crap! And we get to get "dressed up" or at least dressed up for us since our main fashion statement is jeans, to go out to dinner this afternoon!! lol

[Soledad]

I think it's a bit ethnocentric to call people "evil" for eating dogs. But you are on solid ground, as you don't eat animals of any sort.

[COCatMama]

I think it is evil to eat live animal's brains. I don't see how could anyone would look into a dog's eyes and then kill it ...ick.

[kingrattus]

I love meat, but I would only eat herbavores (plant eaters), not carnavores (meat eaters)... Meat eaters eat plant eaters, not meat eaters eat other meat eaters... thats just wrong.... & I think humans r the only warmblooded creatures that eat live food, As far as I know all other warmblooded meat eaters kill their food first, so there is less suffering to their dinner (which is fine by me)... but eating monkey brains while the poo rthing is still alive, it 100% wrong & unmatural !!!

[titania]

Contrary to popular belief....Cats and dogs that are eaten in other countries look nothing like we think... they are hairless and raised specifically for food... while they also have other dogs which are strictly pets that they would never dream of eating.. how is this any differant then cows, rabbits, chickens or anything else we might eat... I have personally had many pet chickens who thought of me as the leader of thier flock.. I was thier companion.. yet I eat chicken... do you think that the animals we are eating are less social then dogs??? most people think pigs are twice as intellegant and social as dogs... yet we eat them... ??? I dont think I would personally eat dog or cat meat.. yet I do not think less of those who do in societies where it acceptable.... I do believe that the animal.. no matter what it is should be dead... live monkey brains..YUCK... I also do not condone the live frying, dismembering or boiling of animals.. which is how crabs, lobsters and many other seafood items are cooked.

In everyday life we disgust Hindus who believe cows are sacred, eat pork which many societies do not condone and Might I add we have most of the dirtiest animal production facilities in the world.

[popcornbird]

I've also had pet chickens (chicks) and I adored them more than anything. Thgey would follow me everywhere and trusted me more than anyone. Of course we NEVER ate those chickens, and never even thought of doing so, we eat chicken all the time and its actually my favorite meat. As for cats and dogs, I think its disgusting to eat such animals because, well, they aren't the "eatable" types. They are hunters, carnivores, made to hunt and eat meat, not be eaten. This is my humble opinion and others may think differently. Not all animals are animals that you should eat. I think its part of the human nature on what animals can be eaten and what animals can't, and I personally believe people who eat animals such as dogs and cats and monkey brains (ewww) are going against their nature. Its really gross. In my religion, there are certain animals we can eat, and certain animals we cannot eat. Pigs are totally forbidden for us to eat, and any carnivore animal is also frobidden. Donkies are also unlawful for us to eat. Although I love chickens (the animal) I still eat their meat. We are keeping our end of the food chain and nothing is wrong with that unless we break the boundaries and go around eating live animals (YUCK!) ! I think that is just sick. A friend of my dad's went to Korea once and went to a restaurant, but was forced to run out. WHy? Because he saw people eating what they called a "chilled monkey brain." They froze the alive monkey, then put it in a table with a hole in the middle, through which the head stuck out. The monkey was COLD but STILL alive! Then they, as he describes, cut the top of the monkey's brain while the poor monkey screamed his head off, and started to eat his brain with a spoon. :mad::mad::mad: OMG! I think I'm going to throw up! This is so disgusting! I better stop! :o:o:o

[Uabassoon]

how is this any differant then cows, rabbits, chickens or anything else we might eat... I have personally had many pet chickens who thought of me as the leader of thier flock.. I was thier companion.. yet I eat chicken... do you think that the animals we are eating are less social then dogs??? most people think pigs are twice as intellegant and social as dogs... yet we eat them... ??? I dont think I would personally eat dog or cat meat.. yet I do not think less of those who do in societies where it acceptable.... I do believe that the animal.. no matter what it is should be dead...

That's exactly how I feel. I don't eat meat, but to me eating a chicken is the same as eating a dog. Now when I did eat meat never would I have eaten a dog or a cat, but I still don't think it's any different. Growing up I had cows and goats as pets, so I decided that I couldn't eat meat anymore because to me cows and goats are a companion animal just like a dog or cat. Different cultures have different foods, but just because you wouldn't want to eat it doesn't mean it's wrong (well considering the animal has been dead first, because I do think that eating a live animal is totally wrong). I don't like Middle Eastern food I think it's tastes weird, but that doesn't mean I would call it gross or that it's wrong, I just think it's different and I don't like it. And I think of meat as the same way, I don't like it, I wouldn't eat it, but different people are raised different ways and to me a cow is just a loveable as a dog.

[Uabassoon]

I think that is just sick. A friend of my dad's went to Korea once and went to a restaurant, but was forced to run out. WHy? Because he saw people eating what they called a "chilled monkey brain." They froze the alive monkey, then put it in a table with a hole in the middle, through which the head stuck out. The monkey was COLD but STILL alive! Then they, as he describes, cut the top of the monkey's brain while the poor monkey screamed his head off, and started to eat his brain with a spoon. OMG! I think I'm going to throw up! This is so disgusting! I better stop!

That is so gross, I think if I saw that I would be screaming as loud as the monkey and I would have ran off too.

[lizbud]

Just would like to add something. This statement is totally
FALSE:

"A thought on animals as food...
Contrary to popular belief....Cats and dogs that are eaten in other countries look nothing like we think... they are hairless and raised specifically for food"

They look just like the dog next door, or your own pet.
It's not just dogs, but also cats that are eaten. They are
not eaten because they are starving for food. They are
sold to be eaten strickly for the money they bring. It seems
to be a cultural thing, but thank God, it isn't my culture.

I'm sorry folks, but it's wrong, wrong, wrong !!!

[titania]

Originally posted by lizbud

They look just like the dog next door, or your own pet.
It's not just dogs, but also cats that are eaten.


I can only go by my experiances... I had a friend who spent many years teaching in Asia.. mostly China and I saw pictures of the food dogs... They were hairless, black and pink and wrinkly.. to tell you the truth they looked alot like pigs.. but are actually an off shoot of the Shar pei breed.

I suppose it is different in other countries but from what I saw of the Chinese dogs they looked like pigs. Also the village that she taught in was fairly poor.. they ate dogs because they breed faster and took up less room then other meat animals... This same village had a German shepard and a couple of mutts that were treated like family. I don't think I would eat it but for these people they have no alternative... the land is needed for rice which is thier only income. To have clothing, housing and schooling for thier children they have to sell the rice.

As a side note... and a question... there are many people who say it is wrong to eat predatory animals...I was wondering how many of these people eat seafood? As most seafood is predatory... all of the fish.... some of the crustaceans, urchins, shark and octopus to name a few.... are they not also meat eaters???

[titania]

New York Times article by a New York Times Correspondent based at the time in Shanghai:

Chinese show their passion for dogs

RED MEAT: One man's best friend becomes another one's meal in ever-increasing numbers as dog farms are springing up around the country to keep up with demand

NY TIMES NEWS SERVICE, PEIXIAN, CHINA - July 2001

The people of Peixian love their dogs.

At seven each morning a crowd of local residents gathers under dusty roadside awnings on a street corner for their favorite breakfast: a bowl of steaming soy milk and a piece of pita-like flat bread wrapped around a rasher of dog.

"I eat breakfast here a couple times a month," Zhu Xinyong said recently as he chewed on a wad of oily reddish meat, pulled from the bone by hand.

Before pooch lovers revolt, or grow revolted, they should know that this has been going on here for about 2,000 years.

It started with Liu Bang, first emperor of the Han dynasty, who liked the taste of dog meat. Before becoming emperor he was an official here in Peixian, in today's Jiangsu Province, and frequented a local dog restaurant run by a man named Fan Kuai.

But Liu Bang never paid for his meals, so Fan Kuai moved his restaurant to the far side of a nearby lake, taking all of the boats with him to prevent Liu Bang from crossing the water.

When Liu Bang arrived at the lakeside, though, legend has it that a giant turtle emerged and carried him across, infuriating Fan, who killed the turtle, chopped it up and threw it into his dog meat stew. As punishment, Liu Bang confiscated Fan's knives, and the restaurateur was forced to use his hands to carve cooked dogs after that.

Ever since, turtle-flavored, hand-pulled dog meat has been a local specialty. It can be bought, vacuum-sealed in plastic and boxed in gift packs, at the airport in nearby Xuzhou.

However shocking to Westerners, the use of dogs in northeast Asian cuisine has gone on just about as long as there have been men and dogs in the region. It is a specialty meat in many parts of China, eaten occasionally in the winter for its supposed warming quality. But it is regular fare in Peixian.

"I eat it every day," said Han Fei, Peixian's biggest dog breeder and most likely China's, too. He describes himself as the "dragon head" of the industry, raising 100,000 dogs a year, almost all for slaughter at about six months of age.

Eating dog just about died out during the Cultural Revolution of 1966-76, when Red Guards rampaged through the country killing dogs, even those raised for food, because of their stigma as an extravagance of the bourgeoisie. The slaughter in Peixian left "dead dogs everywhere," Han recalled, waving flies away from his lunch, a plate of boiled dog sprinkled with peppercorns.

But dog meat is increasingly available now, and its popularity is growing as people become wealthier and their diets diversify:

To keep up with demand, dog farms have been springing up around the country and dog breeders have been experimenting with crossing larger foreign breeds with the leaner Mongolian dogs long favored for their meat.

Nowhere in China is that more common than in Peixian, a town where huge, amateurish portraits of collies and shepherds, spaniels and hounds stare out from walls everywhere.

Han raised his hand at his Dawn Fine Bred Meat Dog Center to encourage a bony Newfoundland to stand on its hind legs behind the rusty iron bars of its concrete pen.

"Crossbreeds grow faster," the taciturn Han said above the woof of Saint Bernards, Great Danes and Dalmatians penned in a long, bleak row.

The use of these breeds, particularly Saint Bernards, has outraged dog devotees in the West. One organization, called SOS Saint Bernard Dogs International, presented a petition signed by 11,000 people to the Swiss government in February, asking that the government intervene to stop China's use of "the most faithful friend of humans" for food.

The Swiss government expressed sympathy but said diplomatic interference was not "appropriate" in what was essentially a cultural matter.

The Saint Bernard advocates have since taken their case to the International Olympic Committee, asking its president, Juan Antonio Samaranch, to turn down China's bid to be the host of the 2008 Olympics because of the country's culinary use of a breed that has saved so many human lives.

But the outcry abroad has not reached Peixian, where residents seemed puzzled when told of the campaign. The foreign breeds come mostly from Russia, Han said. And they are not eaten, in any case, because purebreds are too valuable and all dogs taste pretty much the same.

A pedigree Saint Bernard or Dalmatian, for example, costs more than US$1,000. Crossing one of those dogs with a local bitch produces two litters of eight to 10 puppies a year. Each crossbred puppy grows to about 50kg in six months, when it can fetch about 400 yuan, (nearly US$50), half of that profit.

"It's twice as profitable as raising pigs," Han said.

There is not plenty for dog lovers to complain about in Peixian, where 300,000 dogs are butchered a year, half for local consumption and half for export to other parts of China and both Koreas.

But the killing of animals in any country is never pretty.

In a small village of brick-walled courtyards not far from Han's farm, Wang Junhua showed a visitor where he slaughters and skins as many as 20 dogs at a time: a series of bloody puddles beneath a crossbeam affixed to a line of weeping willow trees.

After it is slaughtered and skinned, the dog is quartered and soaked in cold water for about an hour before cooking. Wang stews his dog in a huge galvanized cauldron -- head, paws, tails and all. The intestines are stuffed into the stomachs and stewed.

As Wang fished in the cauldron for a dog's hindquarters, two large black masses of herbs wrapped in cheesecloth rolled to the surface.

He sells the dog hides to factories that make dog-fur hats, fur-lined pants and vests and even blankets favored by peasants during the frigid months.

[kohala]

Very interesting posts! Anyone who has ever enjoyed the cuteness of a lamb or baby deer, then had a delicious lamb chop or venison steak faces this human dilemna about food versus friend.
I am kind of chicken (no pun intended) about eating unusual foods, animal or vegetable. However, my concept of what is unusual is formed by the society and culture I live in. What I would find offensive or disgusting may well be common place or a delicacy in another place.
I am very familiar with the dietary laws (Jewish and Muslim - now there's an interesting commonality!!) against the eating of pork, yet there are areas of the world where pork and fish are mainstays. And, mostly, we all are familiar with the Hindi thing about cows. The only thing that'll keep me from a tender steak would be advancing arthritis, based on what I personally have learned and believe about the connection.
Everything is eaten, which is one of the links we all have on the planet. Even we become food, eventually, for the worms who tend the soil that produces the grazing grasses for the cows that our descendants will eat.
Many of the religious prohibitions against certain foods and food combinations come from health practices that were probably more easily explained at the time by proclaiming them to be religious taboos.
What I do find offensive is the casual killing of anything for profit and gluttony, rather than need.
In a world with such an unbalanced distribution of population, I am amazed I haven't heard of an area that eats excess humans!! Now there is something that would truly freak out a lot of people; I'm not one of them.
I'm glad I've never been too emotionally involved with a chicken or a turkey or a fish, as I really do enjoy them as a meal. Rrrrrroowr!!!

[lizbud]

I'm going to post two links here to organizations that
work against this kind of treatment of companion animals.
If you view these & read the articles and then tell people
that this is anything but a cruel & barbaric practice, then
I have nothing more to add. We live in different worlds of
thought on this subject.

http://www.acres.org.sg/campdog.htm


http://www.yourdog.net/dogs_in_asia.htm

[Kfamr]

Ewwww!:eek:

[kohala]

Originally posted by lizbud
I'm going to post two links here to organizations that
work against this kind of treatment of companion animals.
If you view these & read the articles and then tell people
that this is anything but a cruel & barbaric practice, then
I have nothing more to add. We live in different worlds of
thought on this subject.

http://www.acres.org.sg/campdog.htm


http://www.yourdog.net/dogs_in_asia.htm

"What I do find offensive is the casual killing of anything for profit and gluttony, rather than need." I appreciated the links, Liz - thank you!
Were economic santions against the products of the offending countries mentioned? We buy an incredible amount of our goods from countries that use cheap labor pools, and have no respect for human or any life form. It's something to consider when we shop.
Also, did you read Soledad's post in the thread for Veteran's Day, remembering our canine veterans? Our own military does not recognize dogs as more than property, as opposed to many other countries. I discussed this with a military security specialist at work the other day, and he said to his knowledge it still is true.

[COCatMama]

Well, for me it is wrong to eat *any* animal, so I don't. That includes fish btw. And I have seen photos of puppies that looked ALOT like golden retrievers hung up on hooks in a market, being sold for human consumption.

[kohala]

Originally posted by Lalania
Well, for me it is wrong to eat *any* animal, so I don't. That includes fish btw. And I have seen photos of puppies that looked ALOT like golden retrievers hung up on hooks in a market, being sold for human consumption.

That would hurt terribly to see.

BTW I commented in an earlier post :
"In a world with such an unbalanced distribution of population, I am amazed I haven't heard of an area that eats excess humans!! Now there is something that would truly freak out a lot of people; I'm not one of them. "

That was meant with extreme "tongue in cheek". I aplogize to the more sensitive of you for the callousless of the image. Some of us get a little too jaded as we get older in this callous world. I guess that's why a gentle, loving and supportive website like this is such a safe haven, and joyous retreat!

I just believe that you can't tell the rest of the world to "clean up their act" unless your own is totally together. I liked the threads Liz provided so much, though; It thrills me when I see or hear of the international community of human beings act together on inhumane issues.

[Cookiebaker]

I think Kayann summed it up quite appropriately:


Ewwww!:eek:

[lizbud]

Kohala,

Have you hear of WSPA ? It is a world wide organization
that champions animal causes all over the world. It has 35
member societies in the U. S. and 13 in Canada. There are
many causes to work for in the U.S., but stopping the eating
of companion animals is not one of them thankfully.

http://www.wspa.org.uk/


http://www.wspa-americas.org


They have very worthwhile goals.

[COCatMama]

Originally posted by lizbud
There are
many causes to work for in the U.S., but stopping the eating
of companion animals is not one of them thankfully.

http://www.wspa.org.uk/


http://www.wspa-americas.org


They have very worthwhile goals.

Um, so beating or neglecting a companion animal is wrong, but killing and eating them is okay!??! that makes 0 sense to me.

[kohala]

Originally posted by Lalania


Um, so beating or neglecting a companion animal is wrong, but killing and eating them is okay!??! that makes 0 sense to me.

Lalania, read a little more carefully!!! The good thing Liz refers to is the fact that consumption of companion animals is not an issue here!;)

[lizbud]

Kohala,

Thank You.:)

[titania]

Originally posted by Lalania


Um, so beating or neglecting a companion animal is wrong, but killing and eating them is okay!??! that makes 0 sense to me.


In my opinion.. beating and neglecting is far worse then eating... Before you say anything.. here is my argument...

Our society is constantly improving the conditions in which food animals are kept(Veal being the one exception). Especially with the growing desire for "Free-Range" meats, animal farming is becoming far more civilized. The animals live with the ability to run, interact and always have food and housing.... this is a far better situation then neglect or abused animals.

This brings about a serious question... why all the improvements in food animal care... and very little increase in the laws about abuse, neglect and killing of Companion animals???

[COCatMama]

I did read it....anyway, I agree that FARM ANIMALS should be free-range but they are still traumatized before they die in the slaughterhouses. I was referring to companion animals like horses, dogs and cats.