Disaster Discussion

[Karen]

Okay, the news out of the Gulf area got me wondering about something that I know may be a difficult subject for some people, and maybe contentious, so I'm just gonna start it out here in the Dog House.

When there is a mandatory evacuation of an area, do you think it is the responsibility of residents to leave in a timely fashion if they are able? I understand disabled or elderly folks who cannot leave on their own, but what about the people who could have left and chose not to? Do they bear any responsibility for the expense and effort that goes into rescuing them when the time comes?

Just wondering what others think. There always seem to be those who say, "I 'toughed it out' when storm X came through, I'm not leaving!" but then end up having to be rescued from the rooftop when the area floods ...



No, I am not bitter and cynical and think they should be left to drown, but ... do they bear any responsibility at all?

[pomtzu]

I may be old fashioned, but no one is going to force me out of my home, even with a mandatory evacuation.
So many people refuse to leave because of possible looting, or having to leave their pets behind, and I would fall into the same class as these people. Fortunately in New Orleans, they now welcome pets to shelters to entice people to leave, whereas when Katrina hit, this wasn't an option available to them.

I really don't know if people who have to be rescued should have to be responsible for some sort of payment. Most people probably wouldn't have the means to pay anyway, so it might be easier to get blood out of a turnip! :eek:

[Lady's Human]

Once mandatory evac orders are issued, unless you have med or transportation issues keeping you from leaving, you're on your own.

There should be enough notice with satellite mapping, etc. to get everyone out in some semblance of order.

[moosmom]

I'm with Pomtzu!!! Unless my cats go with me, I AIN'T GOING!!!

As far as paying for my rescue, let 'em bill me!!! Like Pomtzu said, I'd like to see them get blood out of a turnip!!!

[Karen]

I may be old fashioned, but no one is going to force me out of my home, even with a mandatory evacuation.
So many people refuse to leave because of possible looting, or having to leave their pets behind, and I would fall into the same class as these people. Fortunately in New Orleans, they now welcome pets to shelters to entice people to leave, whereas when Katrina hit, this wasn't an option available to them.

I really don't know if people who have to be rescued should have to be responsible for some sort of payment. Most people probably wouldn't have the means to pay anyway, so it might be easier to get blood out of a turnip! :eek:

So if, for example, flood waters began to rise and your home and belongings were in danger, you wouldn't expect to be rescued?

[pomtzu]

So if, for example, flood waters began to rise and your home and belongings were in danger, you wouldn't expect to be rescued?

Where I live, the whole state would already be under water, if it was rising at my house! :eek:

Seriously tho - no - I wouldn't "expect" to be rescued. I made the decision to stay in the first place, and I would have to suffer the consequences. Of course, I would hope that someone would rescue me and my family and all the pets in the house.

[Karen]

Where I live, the whole state would already be under water, if it was rising at my house! :eek:

Seriously tho - no - I wouldn't "expect" to be rescued. I made the decision to stay in the first place, and I would have to suffer the consequences. Of course, I would hope that someone would rescue me and my family and all the pets in the house.

In the flood example, you might be safe, but what about fire, etc? That can happen anywhere, though those of us in the damper areas have less to worry about!

[Lady's Human]

The issue with rescue isn't the bill.

The issue is the poor National Guardsman or police officer who has to put his/her life on the line to save people who disregarded the evac order.

Bad enough for them to have to put up will the ill tempers people have during mandatory evacuations, but to have to go back in to a disaster area to rescue those who wouldn't leave despite orders is a touch too much to ask.

[pomtzu]

In the flood example, you might be safe, but what about fire, etc? That can happen anywhere, though those of us in the damper areas have less to worry about!


Fire is a different story. I'd be outta there so fast that I'd be starting my own fires from my wheels spinning. I'd toss in the car whatever of value that I had time to gather, get the pups, and head for wetter ground!~~~~~and wait and pray that I have a house to go back to when the smoke clears. I am absolutely petrified of fire!

People that stand their ground and refuse to leave in a fire situation, have little to no chance of being rescued.

[mon]

This is a wierd sorta topic.Very hard call. At the end of the day, everyone will have to take responsibility for the choices they make. We all do. Dead or alive for not evacuating, rescue workers risking their lives to help the folks and stranded animals. Face it, not a very safe place to live but i'm not sure if I was born there it would be easy to go. Not sayin' I'm just sayin'.

[mon]

My cousin is a fire chief in Richmond, ready to risk his life for others everyday. Hate to see him lose his life cuz someone was too silly to go to safety when they had good time and warning to do so.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Happens here in SoCal all the time. Wild fires and people don't want to leave. I understand how they feel but agree -- if they have to be rescued - it should be their expense.

[mon]

I guess folks who don't leave might be financially incapable or think they are. How does one fine someone with no loot :confused:

[mon]

You could fine them, yes indeed. No one would recieve nary a cent.

[mon]

Just sounds like a lotta paperwork and wasted energy to me.People do whatever they want it seems

[Grace]

I think in some situations, the authorities will spell it out - if you don't leave when they tell you to, you are on your own. As someone previously said, why should emergency personnel be expected to risk their lives to save someone stupid?

There was some unexpected, very fast rising flooding in Louisiana yesterday, and people had to leave with what they on at the time. No time to pack anything. Saw some film on the news this evening where some of the residents went back to get their pets - the water had started to recede so it was safer. Anyway, this one guy had several dogs and 23 cats - everyone of them survived by going to the 2nd floor. They were all rescued without incident :)

[Lady's Human]

I guess folks who don't leave might be financially incapable or think they are. How does one fine someone with no loot :confused:

In a mandatory evac, the Guard normally has cargo truck available to move those with no means of egress.

Comfortable? Hack no. However, a bumpy ride vs. drowning, I'll take getting knocked around a bit by bumpy roads.

[smokey the elder]

With the shift to allowing pets in shelters, it becomes a little more clear, IMO, that people should obey mandatory evacuations. I live 2 miles away from a nuclear power plant, so I'm mindful of the (hopefully low) possibility of needing to do so. But, the reason it's not 100% clear is if you have a situation like I do. I have several feral cats that live indoors. However, I think I have a workable intermediate solution where I'd catch who I could, then open the windows for the ferals to "self-evacuate" and try to re-trap them later. (The ferals live indoors as I'm on a busy street and would prefer they not get turned into rugs.)

[Randi]

I think it's pretty stupid not go leave if there is a mandatory evacuation. Especially, if you can take your pets along. About ten years ago, we had a huge fire in one of our buildings, it started 5:00 in the morning and a friend of ours lived right on the edge of it, two floors below the roof. He had packed his most precious possessions, phoned us and came over.

This is what we saw out of our window.

[catland]

If I were to choose to stay behind after a mandatory evacuation, then I would consider the rescuers to be off the hook as far as trying to save me at the risk of their own safety.

I don't plan to be rescued. I'd rather be a rescuer than a rescuee.

I took a FEMA class the fall after Hurricane Katrina and learned some of the basic skills to learn how to help at the citizen level. My husband and I have discussed where we would go in case of an emergency since I work on the other side of the river and am 20+ miles from home. We don't really get disasters here in Oregon, but the one concern is that we're overdue for a major earthquake which of course would totally mess up the freeways, bridges, etc.

[mon]

Wow, sure hope no one was hurt in that fire! I was just wondering... so thought I'd just put this out there, if anyone thinks people behave differently when there is a full moon? I would swear that my mum acts even odder than usual when there is a full moon. If that's even possible :D

[Asiel]

In the case of a wildfire I would leave and no one would have to tell me-- but for anything else I would stay put in my home-- no one tells me when to leave, I control my own destiny and that of any pets that are with me at the time.

[Alysser]

You can't expect me to leave my dog to save my sorry butt. In CERTAIN situations, like fires or bad hurricanes, I'd leave. But floods, tropical storms, etc...I'd choose my own route. I'd probably wind up leaving before it got too bad anyway, and find a safe place for me and MY DOG. You couldn't ask me to leave my dog behind to burn in a fire or drown, sorry. I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

[Karen]

When they issue a "mandatory evacuation" order, Alysser, they don't tell you how you have to go or anything! They just care that you get yourself and your pets/family safely away.

It's funny, because there are signs left over from I guess the Cold War around the Boston area directing people along an "evacuation route," and I have seen them on Cape Cod as well. But here in the Boston area, there are bigger, better roads that have been built since these signs were up, and on Cape Cod, there are limited choices how you're gonna get off the Cape anyway - there are just two big bridges that cross the Cape Cod canal, so unless your car floats, you've only got two choices anyway!

[chocolatepuppy]

My most likely disaster is tornadoes and there is no evacuating from them! Just hit the basement! I do worry about train derailments though. I live between two tracks. I would evacuate if needed, with furkids. The problem is, what if I'm not home? I've seen two trains derail in the 18 years I lived here. One was right on my street. Last year a train derailed up in town and they did evacuate but not as far as my street. I had already gone to work. I would leave work in a heartbeat to come back and get my furkids, but what if they wouldn't let me back in?:(

[RICHARD]

Moving from CA to KY, the state not the jelly, I am more aware of the weather than I am of the world moving under my feet.

Earthquakes are pretty bad. You do not know when they will hit (I was on the can once when an aftershock shook the building I was in) and being prepared is quite a bit different than waiting for a storm to come thru.

I was on the 10th floor of a hospital when the storm sirens went off (we have talked about them before and us 'old folks' know the fear of hearing one of those in the late 60's/early eighties)

The nurse comes in and pulls the curtains closed, the bed curtain closed and walks out the door.

Not a good feeling when you really don't know what is going to come down.

-------------------

Bascially?

I have my BC, school diploma and all my other certs and papers in a binder, those and the cat's carrier are ready to roll, after that?

I don't have alot, so whatever a storm, hurricane, tornado doesn't take? I'll be happy with that.

---------------------------

9/10ths of surviving a disaster happens afterwards, if you do not prepare beforehand and survive?

Good luck with trying to make it past the first 72 hours.

Back in 1971 Sylmar earthquake, we were huddled in the driveway when I asked my mom to call the police.

She looked at me and said, "The police have bigger things to worry about."

And to this day, I refuse to think that any emergency service will drop everything to come to my house.

You have to learn to sink or swim.

[emily_the_spoiled]

The one good thing that came out of Katrina was that the Federal government pass the PETS Act. This basically says that if there is a human shelter opened there MUST be a place for pets to be placed also. In Florida many of the shelters will actually allow you to take your pet to the human shelter. In Maryland, they don't but we open shelters within a reasonable distance from the human shelter so that people can take care of their pets.

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/storms/story/2012-08-30/Isaac-pets-emergency-plan-Katrina/57454202/1

[mrspunkysmom]

The one good thing that came out of Katrina was that the Federal government pass the PETS Act. This basically says that if there is a human shelter opened there MUST be a place for pets to be placed also. In Florida many of the shelters will actually allow you to take your pet to the human shelter. In Maryland, they don't but we open shelters within a reasonable distance from the human shelter so that people can take care of their pets.

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/storms/story/2012-08-30/Isaac-pets-emergency-plan-Katrina/57454202/1

I must have missed that news. I've been aware that shelters now let you bring pets or have another space for them, but I didn't realize that it was a law that forced the issue.

I know if I had to evacuate the area, stuff would get in the car in this order: cats, meds, food, computer, clothes and other necessities.

[Steve Arnold]

As someone who lived through the second costliest natural disaster in the country after Hurricane Katrina - the Iowa floods of 2008 - I can say that the reason why no lives were lost here is that for the most part people followed the mandatory evacuations when they were issued. 20,000 people were displaced in Cedar Rapids and the evacuation was surprisingly smooth. (I was not personally affected, my parents home was not affected and I live in another community that was flooded but my home is a mile from the water.) But both our communities were hard hit.

Provisions were made by the city for pets from evacuated homes. Kennels were provided in a safe place far from the water. The few people who did need to be rescued were mostly because they were afraid they wouldn't be allowed to take pets with them. The rescues performed were surprisingly dangerous because of the swift current of the river and the fact that the flood water was seriously contaminated by farm chemicals from flooded farmland up river and the fact that the Cedar Rapids sewage treatment plant was flooded and raw sewage was going directly into the floodwater because there was no other option.

One of the most moving photos of the flood was from a small town in the path of the flood water with a herd of cows stranded in a small patch of high ground around a house - but the cows did survive.

The closest call my family had personally was that on the day before the bridges were to close, two days before the crest in Cedar Rapids, my parents had my older dog at their house to take to the groomer, as the flood was cresting in my town that day and I wouldn't have been able to get down. All the bridges in town but one were scheduled to close that afternoon, But the water was coming in so much faster than expected that the bridges were closed several hours early. They had a harrowing time getting across the river on the one remaining bridge to pick him up - the traffic was unbelievable and they were driving in water up to their hubcaps. A twenty minute trip took almost two hours, but they got the dog home safely. The next day all the bridges across the river were closed, and I was very relieved. I was without my dog until the water began to go down but at least he was safe with my parents.

So, yes, people need to take those mandatory evacuation orders seriously and move when they are told to move. I'm glad the rules have changed so that pets are accounted for!

[Karen]

How nice to know that in some places, folks actually heed the evac orders! Thanks for sharing that story with us!