Gun control discussion

[lizbud]

It's pretty insulting to be thought of as a 'wannabe Rambo' because I like to shoot a gun or want to own one.




Said nothing about indivdual gun owners .Said something about the"Rambos" who delude themselves into believing that arming themselves
will somehow protect us all from tyranical goverment excesses.

[chocolatepuppy]

But I sure as heck wouldn't keep my gun on the dresser like you do. :eek: If I had one it would be on the nightstand - it's much closer than the dresser and I wouldn't even have to get out of bed! :p:D

Ok Ellie! :p It's only three steps to my dresser. I can grab my gun and switch the safety off in the dark.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Look at how we talk to and about people. Look at how we TREAT people. We wonder why people lose it and want to take everyone out. No wonder kids think there is nothing wrong with torturing students they don't like, look at how the adults behave.

I certainly agree with you Sparky. Seeing how some people on this thread behave and 'speak" to others...I can see why they feel they need guns! :D

[mon]

Since we are all having such an advanced, intelligent conversation on gun control. Well, I have 3 guns. One I keep in my underwear drawer simply for kicks. The other one I use to shoot at the mailman if he does not deliver the mail on time, the third one is a rifle that I keep locked and loaded. Just in case I feel freaked out or threatened and wanna blow someones brains out.

[Lady's Human]

I certainly agree with you Sparky. Seeing how some people on this thread behave and 'speak" to others...I can see why they feel they need guns! :D

Sweetie, run along now, okay, sunshine?

The big people were having a discussion without your stupidity, run along and play.

[blue]

Hear this all the time & wonder if people really believe what they are saying.A USA military could take down whole other Nations within days will be held in check by a group
of wannabe Rambos with their trusty "firearms". It's laughable. Evidently, repeating this phrase in every discussion about gun control, somehow makes them feel invincible.

The Viet Cong wore us down even though the USA had the superior fighting force. The Afghans wore down the Soviets, even though the Soviets had the superior fighting force.

What you arent taking into account is the ordinary armed citizen in the USA who arent the "Rambo" type. Rambo did not exist during the Revolutionary War, ordinary citizens did. The writers of the Second Amendment were ordinary citizens and they toppled the British control of the Americas.

An individual, as you term "Rambo" would do nothing against a tyrannical government, but as a group armed citizens can keep government in check if the will and means is there. You seem to want to take the means away.

Back in the 80s a Russian warship docked in Anchorage, a local was able to ask the captain how the Soviet Union would do in a land invasion of the USA. The captain wasnt concerned about the US military but as to how well armed the citizens are.


How come, say for instance Canada, England, Germany, Denmark, countries with strong gun-control laws, are not tyrannical dictatorships?

And why are these countries not overrun with gun violence, gun crimes, gun deaths? After all, the bad guys can always get guns, but the good guys can't. How come bad guys aren't going around shooting up schools, theaters, malls, churches all the time in those places?

None of the countries you listed are Democratic Republics, so you are comparing apples to oranges. I would call all of the countries you named as overbearing governments with very little interest in privacy, England is a prime example of lack of individual privacy.

I think Ladys Human covered Switzerland,


Yes Liz, all these wannabe Rambo types really are laughable, but also frightening - you never know when something ticks them off and they go beserk. It has happened again and again and will propbably continue. :(

The Rambo wannabe's arent the ones shooting up the "Gun Free Zones". Its the criminals, the unhinged, and the suicidal's. Like you point out below they dont need a fire arm.


In Denmark, ordinary citizens are not allowed to have guns. Some morons do go around with knives, though, but this was not common just a few decades ago. A law was implemented a few years ago... you're not allowed to go around in public with knives longer than 7 cm. See below:

"In public places, colleges, youth clubs, leisure facilities and the like, it is prohibited to carry a knife or dagger, except as part of a profession, for hunting, fishing or sport or another similar creditable purpose. The ban does not include folding knives with blades of more than 7 cm, which can not be locked in the unfolded position. "

So banning firearms does not keep someone intending to kill from killing. A man in China recently tried to kill a number of children with his car.

Final thought, where have the most recent, the last 20 years, mass shootings taken pace in the USA?

[blue]

Said nothing about individual gun owners .Said something about the"Rambos" who delude themselves into believing that arming themselves
will somehow protect us all from tyrannical government excesses.

When I mention being armed, Im not talking about the individual. The Second Amendment is not that simple.

[Lady's Human]

A tank in urban territory is extremely vulnerable.

An F-16 is useless when your own civilians are around.

Modern arms and tactics are essentially useless when the enemy is among your own citizens. Any serious, well planned uprising would render most of the military useless. There are literally thousands of nasty ways to render modern weapons moot. Just ask the Afghans, the VC, the fuzzies, the Basques, the IRA, and any number of ultimately successful insurgent groups.

If it's so useless, why does the US have a large military unit specifically tasked with supporting, training, and helping insurgents? Ask the governments in the Horn of Africa how useful modern weapons are against an internal uprising.......

[blue]

Very, and I mean very, few of the US military will disarm the USA populace by force.

[Lady's Human]

Very, and I mean very, few of the US military will disarm the USA populace by force.

I'd give the general response to an order like that, but this is a family board.

[blue]

I'd give the general response to an order like that, but this is a family board.

:Like:

[lizbud]

No desire to be Rambo. Would just like to protect myself in my own home.


I don't disagree with you.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The NRA Claims the AR-15 Is Useful for Hunting and Home Defense. Not Exactly.
By Justin Peters

On Dec. 24, in Webster, New York, an ex-con named William Spengler set fire to his house and then shot and killed two responding firefighters before taking his own life. He shot them with a Bushmaster AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle—the same weapon that Adam Lanza used 10 days earlier when he shot and killed 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary. James Holmes used an AR-15-style rifle with a detachable 100-round magazine this past summer when he shot up a movie theater in Colorado. (Though the AR-15 is a specific model of rifle made by Colt, the term has come to generically refer to the many other rifles built to similar specifications.)

Three makes a trend, as we all know, and many people have reacted by suggesting that the federal government should ban the AR-15 and other so-called assault weapons. Gun advocates have responded with exasperation, saying that, despite appearances, AR-15-style rifles are no more dangerous than any other gun. In a piece today on humanevents.com titled “The AR-15: The Gun Liberals Love to Hate,” NRA president David Keene blasted those critics who “neither understand the nature of the firearms they would ban, their popularity or legitimate uses.” Keene noted there are several valid, non-murderous uses for rifles like the AR-15—among them recreational target shooting, hunting, and home defense—and argued that law-abiding firearms owners shouldn’t be penalized because of homicidal loners who use semi-automatics like the AR-15 for criminal purposes.

I generally consider myself a Second Amendment supporter, and I haven’t yet decided where I stand on post-Newtown gun control. I would own a gun if New York City laws didn’t make it extremely difficult to do so. But I nevertheless find Keene’s arguments disingenuous. It’s odd to cite hunting and home defense as reasons to keep selling a rifle that’s not particularly well suited, and definitely not necessary, for either. Bolt-action rifles and shotguns can also be used for hunting and home defense. Unfortunately, those guns aren’t particularly lucrative for gunmakers. The lobby’s fervent defense of military-style semi-automatic weapons like the AR-15 seems motivated primarily by a desire to protect the profits in the rapidly growing “modern sporting rifle” segment of the industry.

The AR-15 was designed in 1957 at the behest of the U.S. Army, which asked Armalite to come up with a “high-velocity, full and semi auto fire, 20 shot magazine, 6lbs loaded, able to penetrate both sides of a standard Army helmet at 500 meters rifle,” according to ar15.com. When it entered Army service in the 1960s, it was renamed the M16, in accordance with the Army Nomenclature System. “AR-15” came to refer to the rifle’s semi-automatic civilian equivalent. From 1994 to 2004, AR-15-style rifles were subject to the now-expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Since then, the rifle and others like it have become tremendously popular. Last month, I estimated that upward of 3.5 million AR-15-style rifles currently exist in the United States. People like the rifle because it is modular and thus customizable (one article calls the AR-15 “perhaps the most flexible firearm ever developed; in seconds, a carbine can be switched over to a long-range rifle by swapping upper receivers”), because it is easy to shoot, and because carrying it around makes you look like a badass.

But the AR-15 is not ideal for the hunting and home-defense uses that the NRA’s Keene cited today. Though it can be used for hunting, the AR-15 isn’t really a hunting rifle. Its standard .223 caliber ammunition doesn’t offer much stopping power for anything other than small game. Hunters themselves find the rifle controversial, with some arguing AR-15-style rifles empower sloppy, “spray and pray” hunters to waste ammunition. (The official Bushmaster XM15 manual lists the maximum effective rate of fire at 45 rounds per minute.) As one hunter put it in the comments section of an article on americanhunter.org, “I served in the military and the M16A2/M4 was the weapon I used for 20 years. It is first and foremost designed as an assault weapon platform, no matter what the spin. A hunter does not need a semi-automatic rifle to hunt, if he does he sucks, and should go play video games. I see more men running around the bush all cammo'd up with assault vests and face paint with tricked out AR's. These are not hunters but wannabe weekend warriors.”

In terms of repelling a home invasion—which is what most people mean when they talk about home defense—an AR-15-style rifle is probably less useful than a handgun. The AR-15 is a long gun, and can be tough to maneuver in tight quarters. When you shoot it, it’ll overpenetrate—sending bullets through the walls of your house and possibly into the walls of your neighbor’s house—unless you purchase the sort of ammunition that fragments on impact. (This is true for other guns, as well, but, again, the thing with the AR-15 is that it lets you fire more rounds faster.)

AR-15-style rifles are very useful, however, if what you’re trying to do is sell guns. In a recent Forbes article, Abram Brown reported that “gun ownership is at a near 20-year high, generating $4 billion in commercial gun and ammunition sales.” But that money’s not coming from selling shotguns and bolt-action rifles to pheasant hunters. In its 2011 annual report, Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation announced that bolt-action hunting rifles accounted for 6.6 percent of its net sales in 2011 (down from 2010 and 2009), while modern sporting rifles (like AR-15-style weapons) accounted for 18.2 percent of its net sales. The Freedom Group’s 2011 annual report noted that the commercial modern sporting rifle market grew at a 27 percent compound annual rate from 2007 to 2011, whereas the entire domestic long gun market only grew at a 3 percent rate.

As the NRA’s David Keene notes, a lot of people do use modern sporting rifles for target shooting and in marksmanship competitions. But the guns also appeal to another demographic that doesn’t get nearly as much press—paranoid survivalists who worry about having to fend off thieves and trespassers in the event of disaster. Online shooting message boards are rife with references to potential “SHTF scenarios,” where SHTF stands for “shit hits the fan”—governmental collapse, societal breakdown. (Adam Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza, has been described as “a gun-hoarding survivalist who was stockpiling weapons in preparation for an economic collapse.”) An article on ar15.com titled “The Ideal Rifle” notes that “the threats from crime, terrorism, natural disaster, and weapons of mass destruction are real. If something were to happen today, you would need to have made a decision about the rifle you would select and be prepared for such an event. So the need to select a ‘survival’ rifle is real. Selecting a single ‘ideal rifle’ is not easy. The AR-15 series of rifles comes out ahead when compared to everything else.” Depending on where you live, it’s perfectly legal to stockpile weapons to use in the event of Armageddon. But that’s a far different argument than the ones firearms advocates have been using since the Newtown shootings.

As I said, I generally think of myself as a Second Amendment supporter, and a month ago, I would’ve probably agreed with the NRA’s position. But the Newtown shooting caused me to re-examine my stance—as is, I think, fitting—and to question some of the rhetoric advocates use to defend weapons like this. In his piece at Human Events, Keene ridiculed the notion that AR-15-style rifles ought to be banned just because “a half dozen [AR-15s] out of more than three million have been misused after illegally falling into the hands of crazed killers.” But the AR-15 is very good at one thing: engaging the enemy at a rapid rate of fire. When someone like Adam Lanza uses it to take out 26 people in a matter of minutes, he’s committing a crime, but he isn’t misusing the rifle. That’s exactly what it was engineered to do.

[Lady's Human]

AR-15s are highly accurate and are used for hunting coyotes and other animals. They are also not limited to the .223 caliber listed in the article, but are available in 9mm carbine versions which would be ideal for home defense, as well as other calibers.

Would the writer ban the firearms because they look like a military weapon? He certainly seems hung up on appearances. Re-enacting the 1994 AWB would do just that, and accomplish absolutely nothing. It did nothing to restrict the sale of high capacity magazines, as there are many available on the civilian market. They aren't serial numbered items and are frequently found at flea markets, and many find their way into civilian hands accidentally after being lost in the field or on firing ranges in the military. It didn't really ban any weapons, as manufacturers retooled slightly to make the firearms meet the restrictions. Out went the plastic pistol grip stocks, in came wood stocks with thumbholes.

Are they going to ban 3-d printer files of magazines? Given the seamless nature of 3-d printing, I'd bet they'd be less prone to jamming than their stamped metal brethren in addition to being nigh impossible to ban. The only thing you'd need to purchase would be a spring, and a really industrious person could easily make even that piece.

[RICHARD]

I fear hot brass down my shirt.

[blue]

Video of Lanza's trunk was a shotgun, not an AR of any type. No AR clone was found in the school, only handguns, 4 of them.

Never let a good tragedy go to waste.

Where do mass shootings take place?

[blue]

I fear hot brass down my shirt.

Stay to my left then.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Gun Deaths vs. Car Deaths
A new Violence Policy Center (VPC) state-by-state analysis of government data comparing firearm deaths and motor vehicle deaths shows that gun deaths outpaced motor vehicle deaths in 10 states in 2009, the most recent year for which state level data is available. Nationally, there were 31,236 firearm deaths in 2009 and 36,361 motor vehicle deaths according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

Alaska: 104 gun deaths, 84 motor vehicle deaths
Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths
Colorado: 583 gun deaths, 565 motor vehicle deaths
Indiana: 735 gun deaths, 715 motor vehicle deaths
Michigan: 1,095 gun deaths, 977 motor vehicle deaths
Nevada: 406 gun deaths, 255 motor vehicle deaths
Oregon: 417 gun deaths, 394 motor vehicle deaths
Utah: 260 gun deaths, 256 motor vehicle deaths
Virginia: 836 gun deaths, 827 motor vehicle deaths
Washington: 623 gun deaths, 580 motor vehicle deaths

The Study (http://www.vpc.org/studies/gunsvscars.pdf)

Now...watch the red herrings that will be tossed into the discussion! Always good for a laugh...albeit a sad laugh...

[blue]

How many of those where suicides?

ETA: Funny how IL and DC arent on that list.

[Lady's Human]

Gun Deaths vs. Car Deaths
A new Violence Policy Center (VPC) state-by-state analysis of government data comparing firearm deaths and motor vehicle deaths shows that gun deaths outpaced motor vehicle deaths in 10 states in 2009, the most recent year for which state level data is available. Nationally, there were 31,236 firearm deaths in 2009 and 36,361 motor vehicle deaths according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

Alaska: 104 gun deaths, 84 motor vehicle deaths
Arizona: 856 gun deaths, 809 motor vehicle deaths
Colorado: 583 gun deaths, 565 motor vehicle deaths
Indiana: 735 gun deaths, 715 motor vehicle deaths
Michigan: 1,095 gun deaths, 977 motor vehicle deaths
Nevada: 406 gun deaths, 255 motor vehicle deaths
Oregon: 417 gun deaths, 394 motor vehicle deaths
Utah: 260 gun deaths, 256 motor vehicle deaths
Virginia: 836 gun deaths, 827 motor vehicle deaths
Washington: 623 gun deaths, 580 motor vehicle deaths

The Study (http://www.vpc.org/studies/gunsvscars.pdf)

Now...watch the red herrings that will be tossed into the discussion! Always good for a laugh...albeit a sad laugh...

With no explanation of the methodology and cherry picked statistics, it's meaningless. All it is is a 4 page position paper.

[Karen]

But it does mean that in 40 states, car deaths outpaced gun deaths.

[blue]

For some reason the states with the highest gun control laws were left out of that study.

[Lady's Human]

But it does mean that in 40 states, car deaths outpaced gun deaths.

True. However, it also shows bad methodology, as most statistical studies discard the anomalies, rather than using them as political fodder.

In addition, until you look at precisely what statistics they looked at (which isn't precisely referenced in the footnotes) the stats are relatively meaningless.

The Postal Service used intentionally misleading statistics to show that closing certain processing plants saved them money. Pay a good statistician enough and they'll prove whatever you want them to.

[RICHARD]

Stay to my left then.

No thanks, I'll stay on the RIGHT side. The 'left' is way too safe for me?;)

--------------------------

Let's talk about Eric Holder and 'fast and furious', then Rahm Emanuel and the "Chi-Town 500"


http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/010213-639108-500-murders-rahm-emanuel-chicago-gun-ban.htm

[Edwina's Secretary]

AR-15s are highly accurate and are used for hunting coyotes

So it takes a weapon that shoots what - 20 - 30 bullets a minute - to take out a coyote???? Really?

I guess that is why the call him Wiley. The coyote that is. Certainly not the "marksman!":D:D:D

And yes Karen - there may be 40 states where gun deaths don't yet outnumber auto deaths. Just give the NRA time.

When you consider the number of people exposed to autos vs the number of people exposed to guns...well...it is embarrassing, isn't it?

Of course there is this...once again...the irrefutable fact - a vehicle that kills is not being used as it is designed. A gun that kills is being used as it is designed.

[Lady's Human]

So it takes a weapon that shoots what - 20 - 30 bullets a minute - to take out a coyote???? Really?

I guess that is why the call him Wiley. The coyote that is. Certainly not the "marksman!":D:D:D

No, it doesn't take that many rounds to "take out" a 'yote. However, the .223 is an excellent round for coyote hunting, as it has an extremely flat trajectory, and the AR-15 is an extremely accurate platform. Combine the two and you have an excellent tool for removing problem varmints from long range, and you don't normally get close to a coyote.




And yes Karen - there may be 40 states where gun deaths don't yet outnumber auto deaths. Just give the NRA time.

When you consider the number of people exposed to autos vs the number of people exposed to guns...well...it is embarrassing, isn't it?


Given that there are 270 million firearms in the US, and the number of automobiles is a fraction of that, which one is statistically more likely to do you harm over the tool's lifetime?

Besides, with concealed carry permits, how do you KNOW how many firearms you are within range of on any given day?


Of course there is this...once again...the irrefutable fact - a vehicle that kills is not being used as it is designed. A gun that kills is being used as it is designed.

It's not irrefutable. A HMMWV (hummer, for those in the civilian world) is designed for the military, hence, by extension, designed to kill. The same goes for the ever popular Jeeps. A firearm is a tool designed to propel a projectile at high speed. What one does with that projectile is entirely the decision of the person pulling the trigger. There are rounds with absolutely scary velocities that are absolutely useless outside of the target range. It's a tool. Period.

[blue]

So it takes a weapon that shoots what - 20 - 30 bullets a minute - to take out a coyote???? Really?.

AR-15s are accurate.

Most varmint rifles will hold 20-30 rounds.

Would you rather varmints be shot inhumanely with inaccurate firearms?

[blue]

Maslack recently proposed a bill to register “non-gun-owners” and require them to pay a $500 fee to the state. Thus Vermont would become the first state to require a permit for the luxury of going about unarmed and assess a fee of $500 for the privilege of not owning a gun.

http://2012thebigpicture.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/vermont-to-require-non-gun-owners-to-pay-a-fine/

[RICHARD]

But it does mean that in 40 states, car deaths outpaced gun deaths.

So, if someone yells "Shot Gun" before a car trip, I need to panic?;)

[lizbud]

Interesting article.;)




Todd Hartley

Columnist, screenwriter, playwright, lyricist, novelist, blogger and stand-up comedian

I'm With Stupid: The Longer the Weapon, the Shorter the Tool

Posted: 01/04/2013 4:10 pm

Australia , Congress , Gun Control , Gun Rights , Assault Weapons , Australia Gun Laws , Firearms , Gun Control Debate , Gun Control Laws , Gun Laws , Gun Lobby , Comedy News
.


Now that we've finally decided we can actually have a conversation about gun control in this country, I think those of us who are in favor of tougher measures have to face one unavoidable truth: Trying to control guns now is a case of shutting the barn doors after the horse gets out.

Gun-rights advocates are quick to point out, correctly, that as of 2009 there were more than 310 million nonmilitary firearms in the United States. That works out to a rate of about one gun for every U.S. citizen. No other country comes close to such a high rate of ownership. Even if all gun sales were to stop tomorrow, there would still be 310 million guns out there.

One option that has been floated is to enact a program modeled on the one Australia passed following a mass shooting in 1996. A mere two weeks after 35 people were killed in Tasmania, the Australian government approved new gun-control laws and began a buyback program that resulted in 650,000 automatic and semi-automatic weapons being turned in and destroyed. There hasn't been a mass shooting in Australia since.

Of course, this being America, the home of the Second Amendment, I harbor no illusions that such a program will ever become reality here. The gun lobby in this country would never allow something so sensible, and our elected officials, worthless as they are, clearly don't have the guts to make it happen anyway. Thus, I think we need to look at other ways to curb gun violence.

In the absence of a plan to reduce the number of firearms out there, I think the only feasible option is to try to change people's attitudes toward guns. Right now, for whatever reason, gun owners think of themselves as rugged sportsmen and bold, brave defenders of family, liberty and personal property. Whether that self-image is the least bit true is subject to debate, but I think we can change that view with a little effort.

Do you remember a few years ago when people were buying millions of Hummers? To me, those Hummer owners were a lot like gun owners. They had an inflated sense of their own self-importance, and they thought owning a massive tank-like vehicle made them somehow more virile and masculine. Then the rest of us pointed out that owning a Hummer was an obvious sign of a person making up for a physical shortcoming, and Hummer went out of business virtually overnight.

So, since I'm not particularly concerned about the National Rifle Association ruining my political career, I'll be the one to say it: If you own multiple guns or feel the need to possess a military-style assault weapon, it's because you have a small penis.

Let me clarify that statement a little, if I may. Owning a handgun to protect your home and your family is fine. Owning a rifle or shotgun for hunting or target shooting is also fine. But owning lots of guns or pseudo-machine guns means you have a tiny wiener and you're incredibly self-conscious about it. That's the plain and simple truth, even if it's not true.

Now, I know a lot of you are probably saying to yourselves, "But Todd, plenty of women also own guns. What about them? Do they have small penises, too?"

My answer to that question would be: Yes. Yes they do. Women who own assault weapons have tiny penises, just like their male counterparts. That would explain why they're angry enough to buy a weapon whose sole purpose is to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

To those of you out there who, like me, have had enough of all the shooting and killing in this country, I encourage you to spread the rumor that when gun owners talk about their 9 mms, they're actually referring to their genitalia and not the caliber of their weapons. With any luck, we can stigmatize gun ownership and encourage people to give up their firearms willingly.

And to those of you out there who own assault weapons or numerous pistols, I encourage you to seek less violent ways to make up for your shortcomings. There are thousands of "natural male enhancement" products out there, and if Austin Powers is to be believed, Swedish-made penis-enlargement pumps might actually work. Give those a try. Surely there's some product out there that can make up for your puny wiener more effectively than arming yourself to the teeth.

Todd Hartley hopes the NRA doesn't sabotage his bid to join the local PTA. To read more or leave a comment, please visit zerobudget.net.

[Karen]

Interesting article.;)

Not!

This strikes me as being just as blatant an attempt to generate response from outraged people as any 11-year-old's troll attempts on online forums. Will not even dignify it with a comment on it.

[RICHARD]

Gonna take a shower and look in the mirror before I jump in.

My dad owned quite a few guns and he was 'packing heat'.

Thank god for genetics.:)

[lizbud]

Not!

This strikes me as being just as blatant an attempt to generate response from outraged people as any 11-year-old's troll attempts on online forums. Will not even dignify it with a comment on it.


Believe it or not, it is from the comedy section of Huffpost.

[Edwina's Secretary]

No, it doesn't take that many rounds to "take out" a 'yote. However, the .223 is an excellent round for coyote hunting, as it has an extremely flat trajectory, and the AR-15 is an extremely accurate platform. Combine the two and you have an excellent tool for removing problem varmints from long range, and you don't normally get close to a coyote.

Besides, with concealed carry permits, how do you KNOW how many firearms you are within range of on any given day?



It's not irrefutable. A HMMWV (hummer, for those in the civilian world) is designed for the military, hence, by extension, designed to kill. The same goes for the ever popular Jeeps. A firearm is a tool designed to propel a projectile at high speed. What one does with that projectile is entirely the decision of the person pulling the trigger. There are rounds with absolutely scary velocities that are absolutely useless outside of the target range. It's a tool. Period.

Somehow I cannot help but believe you do not need an assault weapon to kill a coyote. Native Americans were able to do it rather well without. Sounds like shooting wolves from helicopters to me.

I suppose a gernade would be an "excellent tool" for getting rid of possums as well. But that doesn't mean I need gernades to do it.

Thank you for making my point about concealed carry. I do not know how many firearms are within my range on any given day. And I think that is a terrible shame. And morally wrong.

It is so very kind of you to translate HMMWV to English for poor people who do not have your military linguistics. But your logic is about as faulty as it can be. Because something is designed for the military does not in any way shape or form means it is designed to kill. To use your logic Ready to Eat Meals are designed to kill. (Insert joke here) Medals for valor are designed to kill. John Phillip Sousa music was designed to kill.

Irrefutable. Vehicles are designed to move goods or people from one place to another. When used correctly they do not cause death. Gun, rifles, firearms are designed to kill people. When used correctly they cause death. Indded a tool. A tool to kill.

[Karen]

One does not NEED a gun to kill a coyote, any more than one NEEDS a fork to eat his or her food. They are both just tools that let the person accomplish the task more efficiently, with less mess.

[Edwina's Secretary]

One does not NEED a gun to kill a coyote, any more than one NEEDS a fork to eat his or her food. They are both just tools that let the person accomplish the task more efficiently, with less mess.

You are kidding right? That an assault rifle kills a coyote with "less mess"??? An animal killed with multiple bullets is "less mess" than an animal killed with one or even two clean shots. It seems to me if someone is not good enough shooter to kill the animal without "mess", they should find some other form of recreation - or occupation.

Even I, not closely tied to anyone who shots animals...can't buy that one!

Anymore than I can buy that jeeps and HMMWV were designed (although adapted would be the better word) to kill. These are vehicles designed to move people or goods from place to place - albeit those people may be involved in killing other people. Tanks are vehicles designed to kill people. (I know this because, during WWII, my dad was involved in designing and testing tanks.) Perhaps your brother has confused them.

Although I have had a bit of fun with the visual of a jeep being used to kill the enemy. I imagine folks at Camp Pendleton practicing killing people with jeeps. Very fun. Silly, but fun!

[DriftyAlison0]

My opinion on guns-its not the guns that kill people, its the people behind the gun that kills people. Sure ban the automatics and AK 47's and the other military weapons and keep normal pistols (shotguns for hunters) alone. One why punish the ones who uses the guns right for the idiots who don't and the bad guys will go to the black market and still have guns.

[Karen]

You are kidding right? That an assault rifle kills a coyote with "less mess"??? An animal killed with multiple bullets is "less mess" than an animal killed with one or even two clean shots. It seems to me if someone is not good enough shooter to kill the animal without "mess", they should find some other form of recreation - or occupation.

You don't seem to realize that these weapons being talked about in the press can (and often are) be used to fire a single shot at a time. Not everyone who uses them just holds down the trigger until a clip runs out. And being able to kill a predatory animal accurately, with one clean shot, is way less messy. So you think farmers, ranchers, or other defending their animals should come up with another "occupation" if they cannot kill the predator neatly, but don't think they should be allowed to use an accurate weapon? You are contradicting yourself.

Just saying ...

[blue]

Does wood furniture on an AR make it less scary?

55746

Maybe girly it up a little.

55747

55749

Should bolt action ARs be regulated?

55748

[Lady's Human]

You are kidding right? That an assault rifle kills a coyote with "less mess"??? An animal killed with multiple bullets is "less mess" than an animal killed with one or even two clean shots. It seems to me if someone is not good enough shooter to kill the animal without "mess", they should find some other form of recreation - or occupation.

Even I, not closely tied to anyone who shots animals...can't buy that one!

That is because your logic, as usual, is nonexistent. An AR is a highly accurate platform. As such, you don't need more than one or two shots to put down a coyote. However, like most predatory canines, they move in packs. You may need to shoot more than one. My neighbor raises horses. He uses a semi automatic rifle to eliminate problem animals as he isn't a professional sniper. Sometimes it takes more than one shot to eliminate the animal. Should he give up farming because he doesn't meet your bar as a marksman?



Anymore than I can buy that jeeps and HMMWV were designed (although adapted would be the better word) to kill. These are vehicles designed to move people or goods from place to place - albeit those people may be involved in killing other people. Tanks are vehicles designed to kill people. (I know this because, during WWII, my dad was involved in designing and testing tanks.) Perhaps your brother has confused them.

No, I haven't confused anything. One of the requirements for WW2 jeeps was that they would be able to use various and sundry weapons in several different types of mounts. Hence, they were designed to kill. HMMWVs mount several different types of weapons from different weapons stations as well. They were, in fact, designed as killing machines. I know a little bit about both weapons systems, I've used both. First hand, not what my father told me at the kitchen table. Gunnery table 8 exists for a reason.



Although I have had a bit of fun with the visual of a jeep being used to kill the enemy. I imagine folks at Camp Pendleton practicing killing people with jeeps. Very fun. Silly, but fun!

Again, various gunnery tables involve the use of jeeps with ring mounted weapons (when they were still in the system) and HMMWVs. Not silly at all, except in your mind.

[Lady's Human]

Blue, if you add wooden furniture and take away that evil, evil bayonet lug, they are definitely less scary. Just ask Sen. Feinstein!

[Lady's Human]

Thank you for making my point about concealed carry. I do not know how many firearms are within my range on any given day. And I think that is a terrible shame. And morally wrong..


You being harmed by a person with a concealed carry permit is almost a zero probability event.

You being harmed by someone with a vehicle is almost a statistical certainty.

However, you rail and gnash your teeth about the near-zero probability event, and blithely ignore the statistically certain event?

Then you have the gall to accuse another person of using no logic?

[blue]

You being harmed by a person with a concealed carry permit is almost a zero probability event.

You being harmed by someone with a vehicle is almost a statistical certainty.

However, you rail and gnash your teeth about the near-zero probability event, and blithely ignore the statistically certain event?

Then you have the gall to accuse another person of using no logic?

Logically, you are more likely to encounter a mass murder in a gun free zone.

Logically, gun crimes occur more in areas with high gun restrictions.

Logically, more gun crimes occur in high population areas.

Logically you are safer in sparse population areas with few firearm restrictions.

Common link with mass shootings, what drugs where they taking?

http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/the-giant-gaping-hole-in-sandy-hook-reporting/

ETA: Logic matters very little if at all to those who live in fear. I know people who refuse to ride a bus without a helmet.

[cassiesmom]

We are only nine days into 2013 and there have already been 13 murders in Chicago. Mostly on the South Side and mostly gang-on-gang shootings. I hope the task force headed by VP Biden looks at the reasons why young people join gangs and obtain guns. I don't think they can address gun violence without also looking at other issues like poverty, education, stability of the family, and just creating a better future for young people than gang membership, prison, or early death. Mayor Emanuel announced that he wants the community policing program in the city administered on a local level instead of by the department central administration, so they can try to do more in their immediate communities where the police are working. VP Biden, I'm sure Chicago is not the only big city dealing with gangs, drugs and gun violence. HELP!

[mon]

C'mon folfs, you can but an illegal firearm in Canada B.C. whenever u please. All ya need is the balls to go downtown and buy 1 off a freaky criminal. You can also legally get 1 easily. Just sayin'.

[mon]

All I am saying is that people break laws. No matter what they are, if they feel like it. Make all the gun control laws you please. Dude wants a gun, Oh I'm pretty sure he or she will finf one.

[pomtzu]

Philadelphia stats:

On New Year's Day 2013, 3 people were shot and killed in the City of Brotherly Love! Yes - Happy New Year, Philadelphia! :rolleyes:

Total not available for January yet, but December was pretty brutal........
105 gun related injuries
23 of those died the day of the shooting

I don't see an end to all of this madness - unfortunately. :mad:

[Edwina's Secretary]

All I am saying is that people break laws. No matter what they are, if they feel like it. Make all the gun control laws you please. Dude wants a gun, Oh I'm pretty sure he or she will finf one.

Teenagers will get and drink alcohol regardless of laws...so why bother having any laws? People will drive drunk - no matter what if they feel like it so...why have controls on it? People will drive any speed they want - no matter if there are speed limits. Make all the speed limits you want...guy wants to speed...he or she will.

The hallmark of a civilization is the willingness and will to establish rules and standards of behavior - even if some people will break the laws nonetheless.

Just saying.....

[Edwina's Secretary]

That is because your logic, as usual, is nonexistent. An AR is a highly accurate platform. As such, you don't need more than one or two shots to put down a coyote. However, like most predatory canines, they move in packs. You may need to shoot more than one. My neighbor raises horses. He uses a semi automatic rifle to eliminate problem animals as he isn't a professional sniper. Sometimes it takes more than one shot to eliminate the animal. Should he give up farming because he doesn't meet your bar as a marksman?



No, I haven't confused anything. One of the requirements for WW2 jeeps was that they would be able to use various and sundry weapons in several different types of mounts. Hence, they were designed to kill. HMMWVs mount several different types of weapons from different weapons stations as well. They were, in fact, designed as killing machines. I know a little bit about both weapons systems, I've used both. First hand, not what my father told me at the kitchen table. Gunnery table 8 exists for a reason.



Again, various gunnery tables involve the use of jeeps with ring mounted weapons (when they were still in the system) and HMMWVs. Not silly at all, except in your mind.

Keep on paddling. At least you may convince yourself! Guns are good. Guns are good. Guns are good. Close your eyes and repeat...guns are good...

But insulting my father? Really, really low. He knew more about machines than you could ever, ever know. I guess his 32 patents don't compare to your exalted knowledge. Really, really low. A pity your father didn't tell you about decency at the kitchen table. Mine did.

[mon]

I'm not quite sure that we need to get nasty with one another or feel the least bit wierd if we all have a difference of opinion on a subject. It's not like one persons opinion is going to change anything one way or another. I get that if I break the law I should be punished to the full extent of the law. Bring it on. I try not to do it personally and I don't wanna pack heat. Call me stupid, a pacifist or nieve. It is MY choice.

[blue]

Keep on paddling. At least you may convince yourself!

He is correct. The original specs for the GP, the first Jeep, was for a weapons platform. The Hummer, or originally the HMMWV, was designed as a weapons platform.


But insulting my father? Really, really low. He knew more about machines than you could ever, ever know. I guess his 32 patents don't compare to your exalted knowledge. Really, really low. A pity your father didn't tell you about decency at the kitchen table. Mine did.

The only one violating civility, and decency here is you. There was no insult to you or your father by LH, you are trying to be a victim with that.

Here is an observation, your father was probably a humble man who did not brag about his patents, and did not brag about his knowledge of machinery to others. He also probably would have gotten along with LH.

If I am wrong however, he would probably be as indecent as you are on the internet, if not more so.

I only say that because my own father has been a thin skinned a$$ on the web far far longer then I have. Only difference is I have a far thicker skin then him, or you.

[Lady's Human]

Keep on paddling. At least you may convince yourself! Guns are good. Guns are good. Guns are good. Close your eyes and repeat...guns are good...

But insulting my father? Really, really low. He knew more about machines than you could ever, ever know. I guess his 32 patents don't compare to your exalted knowledge. Really, really low. A pity your father didn't tell you about decency at the kitchen table. Mine did.

How was I insulting your father? Your self-righteous pap comes to the fore again. You brought your father's skills into this as proof of YOUR knowledge of systems. One of my ancestors was a master builder in a shipyard for a very famous ship that was a technological leap ahead of its competition. That relationship doesn't mean I can build a fir frigate from the keel up. My father is a powerplant engineer. While I am intensely familiar with the systems involved in a steam powerplant, it doesn't mean I can build one. We are not the Poslenn'ar, we do not have genetic memory. Your father may well have been a highly competent engineer. That means nothing in relation to your knowledge of a tank.

As to my own abilities, I am a technician, not an engineer. We fix what the engineers fark up.

I merely exposed it as what it is, with no mention whatsoever of your father's skill. His skill doesn't translate into your abilities. Nice try, dearie. Try again.

By the by, I know a great deal about decency and respect. Respect and decency are earned parts of social interaction. You, Madame, have earned exactly what you are getting.

[RICHARD]

Oops!!!!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257966/Paul-Ali-Slater-Intruder-shot-times-face-neck-cornering-mother-kids-attic.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

[Alysser]

Oops!!!!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2257966/Paul-Ali-Slater-Intruder-shot-times-face-neck-cornering-mother-kids-attic.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Silly Richard, she shouldn't have had the gun to protect herself with in the first place! Why post such a story?! ;)

[chocolatepuppy]

Silly Richard, she shouldn't have had the gun to protect herself with in the first place! Why post such a story?! ;)

I agree! I'm wondering what she could have done differently to protect herself and her children without shooting that poor guy.
After all he was just wandering through her home uninvited after breaking in and she didn't even know who he was.

[chocolatepuppy]

This happened a year ago. Again, what could she have done differently? The police were still not there after 20 minutes.
Maybe she should have waited to see what the two guys breaking down her door for 20 minutes wanted.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder911-operators-shoot/story?id=15285605

[lizbud]

This happened a year ago. Again, what could she have done differently? The police were still not there after 20 minutes.
Maybe she should have waited to see what the two guys breaking down her door for 20 minutes wanted.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder911-operators-shoot/story?id=15285605



I remember reading that story. I am so glad she had a gun & wasn't afraid to use it. I don't want to think what could have happened to
her and the baby if those guys managed to get inside. She was very brave woman.

[chocolatepuppy]

I remember reading that story. I am so glad she had a gun & wasn't afraid to use it. I don't want to think what could have happened to
her and the baby if those guys managed to get inside. She was very brave woman.

I remember when this happened. It haunts me. No I don't have a three month old baby and am not quite that far away from civilization, but still.

[blue]

Ill just leave this here.

The Truth About Assault Weapons (http://www.assaultweapon.info/)

[Karen]

Clearly presented, thank you for posting it.

[Lady's Human]

I'd love to read the link, Blue, but I'm at work.......and the filters block me from going to look for a nail gun (makes it hard to look for tools at times...), never mind a page about weapons. I'll have to read in the AM.

[RICHARD]

Silly Richard, she shouldn't have had the gun to protect herself with in the first place! Why post such a story?! ;)

Because I wanted to show that driving with blood in your eyes could cause an accident?:eek:

[blue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Louie and me]

Sorry - I have tears in my eyes.....from laughing.
I've never seen such a load of self serving, biased twaddle.
Glad it was put out by the NRA and not you Blue. I expect it from them.

[sasvermont]

If I could find the "like" button, I would have "liked" Louie and Me's comment. So true. I laughed and laughed and then got bored with it. Such rubbish (at least the part I was able to watch )...... Come on Blue, you can come up with something better than that! I am sure. :p

[cassiesmom]

There was a fatal shooting at a basketball game between two Chicago public high schools. The game had been moved to Chicago State University - a neutral location; there was an ample police presence inside the gym and metal detectors were used to screen everyone. Lots of police outside the arena too. It's possible that the shooter might have been in a car on the campus and not have even gone to the game. I also heard on the radio that the victim was probably just in the wrong place at the wrong moment. More very tragic and sad news in Chicago.

[Louie and me]

Just something I wanted to say for clarification.

It was suggested recently, very politely, that I should butt out of the gun control debate since I was not American and so as not to offend I have done that until today.
Here’s why I care. For most of my 35 year career I traveled throughout the US working with hundreds and hundreds of grassroots volunteers. Politics, religious beliefs, ethnic origins where never part of the equation. Just a bunch of hard working people trying to make their communities better places and providing comfort for those in need.. I spent most of my time in the US toiling alongside volunteers in their communities, fundraising for children’s causes, providing disaster relief support from Canada when needed. As a result I made many, many friends and many have continued to be friends since my retirement.
I have no doubt that some of these volunteers hunted, some of them likely had hand guns for protection and some may even have been or still be members of the NRA. I fully respect their rights under the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. I just don’t want to ever read or hear one of them has been killed watching a movie, or their children killed at school or they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time during a drive by shooting. Over 900 people have been killed by firearms in the US since Sandy Hook , that’s just 35 days. I want them to be safe.

[Cataholic]

Louie and Me- I wouldn't pay any attention to anyone that tells you to butt out of any conversation based on your nationality. You have the right to express your opinion just as much as anyone else. Consider anyone getting riled up enough to tell you to butt out just not comfortable with the views that you are expressing.

[Louie and me]

Thanks Cataholic - it was a very respectful objection but at the same time I was sure more than one poster resented my opinion on a particularly sensitive American matter. That's why I wrote this piece. I really do care about the issue not just on a "holier than thou" basis.

[RICHARD]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/1st-graders-booted-playing-cops-robbers-article-1.1241260

Maybe we need a tighter control on people who see boogey men down dark alleyways?

-----------------------

I can hardly wait for the schools to ban girls from playing with dolls because that may lead them to wanting to get pregnant and become mother or kids who crash Hot Wheel cars into each other - that may lead them to be reckless or NASCAR drivers?


---------------------------

The more I watch the news outlets, the more I am entertained by the puppetheads who really do not know what they are talking about.

"High capacity bullets" was my fave from this past weekend.


Kids with loaded fingers don't scare me, It's the people with empty heads that freak me out.

[Lady's Human]

Ban jeeps. I want everyone to be safe, they have an inordinately high accident rate due to high center of gravity and poor handling characteristics.

Ban minivans. They have a high passenger capacity, and an inordinately high number of people are killed in each minivan accident as compared to an average sedan. More people inside, more possibility of death.


Ban 5 gallon buckets. Kids drown in them, and more true children (not 21 year old gangbangers, sorry, CDC, those aren't "kids) are killed by drowning in buckets than are killed by firearms.

Ban 15 passenger vans. Combine the comments about jeeps and minivans and you've got a rolling nightmare on the highway.

Limit horsepower and torque specs for motor vehicles. People are killed constantly by excessive speed, no need for anyone to be able to exceed the speed limit.

Hell, let's just wrap everyone in bubblewrap, feed 'em a nutritionally correct IV solution and keep them nice and safe inside from cradle to grave. Make everyone a shellperson, life's just too damned hazardous.

[RICHARD]

Ban jeeps. I want everyone to be safe, they have an inordinately high accident rate due to high center of gravity and poor handling characteristics.

Ban minivans. They have a high passenger capacity, and an inordinately high number of people are killed in each minivan accident as compared to an average sedan. More people inside, more possibility of death.


Ban 5 gallon buckets. Kids drown in them, and more true children (not 21 year old gangbangers, sorry, CDC, those aren't "kids) are killed by drowning in buckets than are killed by firearms.

Ban 15 passenger vans. Combine the comments about jeeps and minivans and you've got a rolling nightmare on the highway.

Limit horsepower and torque specs for motor vehicles. People are killed constantly by excessive speed, no need for anyone to be able to exceed the speed limit.

Hell, let's just wrap everyone in bubblewrap, feed 'em a nutritionally correct IV solution and keep them nice and safe inside from cradle to grave. Make everyone a shellperson, life's just too damned hazardous.

55869

Ban roll on?

----------------

One day I was ogling one of the new Boeing airplanes - It was supposed to be the largest passenger cargo jet in the world - and one of my pals looked at me and said, "Great, another way to kill more people in one accident......"

[pomtzu]

55869

Ban roll on?



It is said that the mind is a terrible thing to waste. No one can say that about you - yours is in high gear 24/7! :D

[RICHARD]

Terrorist Barbie?

http://news.yahoo.com/pa-kindergartner-suspended-bubble-gun-remark-035057936.html

I betcha Ken is somewhere breathing a sigh of relief that justice has prevailed.

55873

[lizbud]

When I read the headline i thought maybe the Indy show ran out of his favorite "shootin iron". Clowns.:rolleyes:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/man-accidentally-shoots-himself-in-the-hand-outside-indy-1500-gun-and-knife-at-the-state-fairgrounds

[RICHARD]

Where is Phil Robertson when you need him?

[RICHARD]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55649700-78/yorgason-carry-kelley-gun.html.csp

I love it.

I betcha JCP loved it too, underwear sales probably went up 300%.

------------------------------

911, how can I help you?

Caller: I am here at JC Penney and I want to report a man with a large gun here in the store.....

911: A man with a gun?

C: Yes, a man with a large gun on his back.

911: And what is the man doing?

C: He's browsing the men's section, I think you need to send someone out here...

911: Exactly what is he doing?

C: He is standing at a display looking through the clothing there..

911: And where is the gun?

C: On his back.

911: On his back?

C: Yes, on his back.

911: Is he threatening people with it?

C: No, he is just shopping!

911: Shopping?

C: Shopping.

911: So, what is the emergency?

C: There is a man here with a gun on his back, shopping!

911: Shopping? Has he pointed the gun at anyone or threatened anybody?

C: No, but I am afraid.....It's a man with a gun, shopping!

911: Shopping?

C: Yes, shopping.

911: So....what is the emergency?

C: THERE IS A MAN AT JC PENNEY WITH A GUN ON HIS BACK, AND HE IS SHOPPING!

911: I'll send a car out to investigate..........

[RICHARD]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/york-youth-soccer-club-bans-high-fives-handshakes-201533800.html

Now, in an extended effort to keep the children safer while on the soccer pitch, players are no longer allowed to shoot the ball on goal.

Taking shots on goal are now discouraged because of the danger that a child may be hurt from a direct hit or a riccochet.

-----------------

President Obama has also looked into banning 'shooting guards' and shooting the ball in youth, college and professional basketball games.

Las Vegas is looking into banning crap games - Shooting dice can be deemed as an unsafe activity.

Shooting the Breeze at the watercooler can be cause for suspension or termination at some businesses.

"Shoot" as an alternative curse word will no longer be tolerated.

The NHL hockey season was also in danger of being totally cancelled because the players sticks were not registered.

Microsoft has been asked to remove bullet points from their PowerPoint software and all U.S. companies will begin to remove bulletin board from their premises to reduce the possibility of workplace violence........

[RICHARD]

Stupid adults..............

http://news.yahoo.com/two-women-wounded-gunfire-las-vegas-soccer-field-012936996.html

Not the kind of shootout you want to see a game end in?:rolleyes:


At least it wasn't sudden death?:o

[Catty1]

And then there are accidental shootings...

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/20/five-hurt-in-accidental-shootings-at-gun-shows-around-the-u-s/

Five woundings at three gun shows. I'm not saying ban gun shows; just where do accidental shootings fit into the stats?


Accidental gunfire at three gun shows around the United States on Saturday left five injured, authorities said, the same day that thousands of gun advocates gathered peacefully at state capitals around the U.S. to rally against stricter firearm limits.
Three people were injured in Raleigh, North Carolina, at the Dixie Gun and Knife Show at the state fairgrounds, a quarterly event that usually draws thousands of people. State agriculture department spokesman Brian Long said a 12-gauge shotgun discharged as its owner unzipped its case for a law enforcement officer to check at a security entrance.
Two bystanders were hit by shotgun pellets and taken to a hospital. A retired deputy sheriff suffered a slight hand injury.
Related


School hires armed security guard in wake of Sandy Hook shooting. Guard promptly forgets gun in washroom (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/18/school-hires-armed-security-guard-in-wake-of-sandy-hook-shooting-guard-promptly-forgets-gun-in-washroom/)
Paul Russell: Canadians voice surprising support for the NRA (http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/19/paul-russell-canadians-voice-surprising-support-for-the-nra/)


Long said the shotgun’s owner, 36-year-old Gary Lynn Wilson, brought the weapon to the show to find a private buyer. Sheriff Donnie Harrison said it was too early to know whether Wilson might be charged.
In Indiana, police said a 54-year-old Indianapolis man was injured when he accidentally shot himself while leaving a gun show.
State Police said Emory L. Cozee was loading his .45 calibre semi-automatic when he shot himself in the hand as he was leaving the Indy 1500 Gun and Knife show at the state fairgrounds. Loaded personal weapons are not allowed inside the show.
Cozee was hospitalized for treatment. Police say the shooting was accidental and no charges will be filed.
Meanwhile, authorities in Ohio said a gun dealer in Medina was checking out a semi-automatic handgun he had bought when he accidentally pulled the trigger, injuring his friend. The gun’s magazine had been removed from the firearm but one round remained in the chamber, police said.
Police Chief Pat Berarducci said it appears the bullet struck the floor and the man was wounded in the arm and leg. Berarducci said the man was taken by helicopter to a Cleveland hospital. His condition was not immediately known.
The gun rallies held Saturday coincide with President Barack Obama’s unveiling of a sweeping package of federal gun-control proposals in the wake of a Connecticut elementary school shooting that killed 20 first-graders and six educators last month.

[Lady's Human]

In the case of the shotgun, according to the comments on the local media's website, the shotgun was actually discharged by the officer who was supposed to be clearing it, not the owner of the firearm.

Of course Police never make mistakes, and the media doesn't give any bias to the coverage.

The dumb redneck just makes for a better story, so accurate or not, run with it.

[blue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miEmIfhfxuc

[lizbud]

Quote from article on gun show shooting. " he accidentally pulled the trigger"


Never undestood how this can happen. Either you pull it or you don't, nothing accidental about it.

[RICHARD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk&feature=player_detailpage

[Lady's Human]

Quote from article on gun show shooting. " he accidentally pulled the trigger"


Never undestood how this can happen. Either you pull it or you don't, nothing accidental about it.

I can think of a number of ways it can happen, mainly involving a piece of the case hitting the trigger while opening the case, however, the Army's term for it is negligent discharge, which is completely accurate.
Unless it's in a holster, there shouldn't be a round in the chamber, and only an idiot carries locked+cocked. That's why they make double action triggers.

[lizbud]

I can think of a number of ways it can happen, mainly involving a piece of the case hitting the trigger while opening the case, however, the Army's term for it is negligent discharge, which is completely accurate.
Unless it's in a holster, there shouldn't be a round in the chamber, and only an idiot carries locked+cocked. That's why they make double action triggers.


Not that dumb thing. This dumb thing. http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/man-accidentally-shoots-himself-in-the-hand-outside-indy-1500-gun-and-knife-at-the-state-fairgrounds

[Lady's Human]

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/30208-nbc-admits-no-assault-rifle-used-in-newtown-shooting/

The perp didn't even use the assault rifle, it was found in his car. The initial reports were correct.

Now can we get a nationwide retraction of the story and a nationwide end to the hullaballoo over a non-issue?

[Karen]

I will not hold my breath - if there is a retraction it will likely be done as quietly as possible, if at all.

[RICHARD]

MSNBC was covering the Texas college incident on "The Cycle" Tuesday.

The pinheads on the show had a few people (experts and the like) calling into the show and the hosts kept
trying to work the "assault weapon" angle into the report.

When it was determined to be an arguement between two people and no reports of an AW were to be found?

They tried to work GWB as the reason for the shooting. j/k... They dropped the report and went on to blathering on about politics.

[Lady's Human]

Gang bangers in Houston. I was truly shocked. I was in Houston years ago to do some equipment installs for a NG unit.......their armory was inside a double row of fencing topped by razor wire, and we were advised to park IN the armory, which goes against normal policy.

[Karen]

But because this time, they took the violence onto a college campus, the whole media world notices ...

[Edwina's Secretary]

I see the Weekend Warriors are still sharing their in-depth knowledge of nothing!

SNAFU!!

[blue]

I see the Weekend Warriors are still sharing their in-depth knowledge of nothing!

SNAFU!!

Que?

[Lady's Human]

I see the Weekend Warriors are still sharing their in-depth knowledge of nothing!

SNAFU!!

Glad you could make that stellar, enlightening contribution dearie. Thanks for stopping by.

BTW, sweetheart, don't ever call someone a weekend warrior if you don't (and you obviously don't) know what in hell you're talking about.

[lizbud]

I see the Weekend Warriors are still sharing their in-depth knowledge of nothing!

SNAFU!!



Yep, you've called it Sara. :) Same echo chamber, same low watt verbiage.

[Lady's Human]

Low watt verbiage?

Calling someone a weekend warrior is hardly a comment deserving of a polite response, along with the rest of the insulting, derisive horse manure Sara has been spreading in the thread.

I have an extensive first hand knowledge of weapons and systems. The one discussing the issue with no knowledge is ES.

[Alysser]

The Harrisburg, PA Outdoor show has been cancelled due to them banning assault rifles, many vendors, including Bear Archery (my personal favorite) pulled out of the show to make a stand. I think that's a good thing, however, I am a little disappointed I don't get to go now. Good thing me and my dad didn't purchase any tickets. :p

[blue]

Yep, you've called it Sara. :) Same echo chamber, same low watt verbiage.

You and ES are the ones with the low watt verbiage, and the same echo chamber.

Highest gun crimes happen in areas with the highest "Firearm Laws". Chicago being a prime example, CT Sandy Hook being the latest. Gun free zones are killing more people then gun "FREE" zones.

Im not sure if your heads are in the sand, or in your @$$.

Lose the Second Amendment, the first isnt far behind.

[cassiesmom]

Highest gun crimes happen in areas with the highest "Firearm Laws". Chicago being a prime example.

Illinois is the only state currently without a concealed carry law. But there are gang members out there carrying guns in the hood every day. A girl was shot and killed yesterday just one week after being in President Obama's inauguration parade with her school band. There was a story on the news about a mother who has lost all four of her children to gunshots. Newt Gingrich recently described Chicago as "Murder Capital of the World". The problem isn't just guns in lower-income neighborhoods, but also gangs and drugs. VP Biden, please come to Chicago and see what's happening - sometimes in places not very far from the Obama family's home. People are dying every day and it's got to stop.

[RICHARD]

I guess we do need tighter gun control laws.

A woman with a gun could be dangerous?

55910

[Randi]

I guess we do need tighter gun control laws.

A woman with a gun could be dangerous?

55910
Just as dangerous as a man with a gun, but in the end, let's hope that intelligence win and the gun laws are changed! What a peaceful world we could live in. :)

[RICHARD]

Just as dangerous as a man with a gun, but in the end, let's hope that intelligence win and the gun laws are changed! What a peaceful world we could live in. :)

I am for tighter gun control laws - background checks and tighter rules concerning ownership and the sales of any weapons.

The problems arise when you have people who

Don't want their health/mental records looked at.
Do not want to be bothered to go to a gun safety class.
Do not want to register their weapons - for fear that the gov't. will come for them.
People who have an irrational fear about weapons and the people who own them.

Not all people who own guns want

Assault weapons
Machine guns
Large capacity magazines

The people that are visible in the media and the government DO NOT speak for the people who enjoy owning and
using guns for sport or hunting.

One of the funniest 'talking points' in the media is the portrayal of gun owners being "Gun Nuts" and wanting to have machine guns, hand grenades and living in bunkers with a year's worth of food.

It's a sensational look at the whole gun issue.

----------------------

Here in America we have a saying that goes soemthing like this.......

We have the freedom of speech, but that does not give is the right to scream "FIRE" in a crowed theater.

It would cause a panic and people will get hurt.

The people screaming 'FIRE' are the same people that are going on and on about the evils of gun ownership.
Most of them would not own a firearm, hold a firearm or go to learn the proper use of and shooting one.

It's just like me commenting on birthing a baby.

I can watch it, but I can't comment on it because it's not me on the table.;)

[Lady's Human]

Just as dangerous as a man with a gun, but in the end, let's hope that intelligence win and the gun laws are changed! What a peaceful world we could live in. :)

Changing the firearms laws in the United States to end gun violence it putting a band-aid on arterial bleeding.

Legal firearms owners aren't the problem.

Criminals who break the laws are the problem. Felons cannot legally own guns.

With that being the case, combined with the fact that 90+% (FBI stat, want the precise figure, look it up, it's readily available) of those who commit crimes with firearms were already convicted criminals BEFORE they ever got their hands on a firearm (read.....they were already legally unable to purchase a firearm), it clearly shows the problem isn't firearms. It's societal.

Legalize marijuana and decriminalize certain other drugs and the funding for the gangs dries up.

Provide realistic education for children that enables them to get employment on graduating high school and gang membership isn't so "cool".

Make parents be parents, and take children away from those who are categorically unable to care for them.(yes, that may mean recreating orphanages. Regulated, they would be a damned sight better than what many children have as parents)

Open mental health records to the NICS system.

All of this would have an effect on firearms issues.

None of this would affect already lawful owners.

[blue]

Silence from the the ES echo chamber, typical.

[pomtzu]

Silence from the the ES echo chamber, typical.

Why don't you just drop it???? Oh - I know why - you just can't stand peace. :mad:

[blue]

Why don't you just drop it???? Oh - I know why - you just can't stand peace. :mad:

Why so angry?

[pomtzu]

Why so angry?

I don't see any anger in that statement - other than the little "mad man".

I just find it extremely annoying when one has to the stir the pot to keep a confrontation going. Taunting people into a response is childish - like you tried in another thread where a totally innocent comment was made about "snow", and you had to make a totally uncalled for and inappropriate comment about/to the person who posted it.

[Randi]

Pomtzu, his signature says it all! :rolleyes:

[blue]

I don't see any anger in that statement - other than the little "mad man".

I just find it extremely annoying when one has to the stir the pot to keep a confrontation going. Taunting people into a response is childish - like you tried in another thread where a totally innocent comment was made about "snow", and you had to make a totally uncalled for and inappropriate comment about/to the person who posted it.

Its funny you dont find it annoying when ES or Liz does the same thing on a far more regular basis, double standard maybe?

I kinda like that I have my own post stalker now with you.

So, why so angry?

[pomtzu]

Its funny you dont find it annoying when ES or Liz does the same thing on a far more regular basis, double standard maybe?

I kinda like that I have my own post stalker now with you.

So, why so angry?

Me a stalker??? - that's really funny. All you need to do is look in the mirror to see who is the stalker here - a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Don't flatter yourself by thinking that I am following you.

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Liz or ES, but I most definitely disagree with you and your rude and crude tactics. I suppose that your comment about "snow" wasn't rude and crude ??? - but there you go again - the pot calling the kettle black. Obviously that shoe fit you very well and you are very familiar with snow in all of it's forms.

And I still see no anger in anything I've posted. Try disgust on for size.

And I'm curious, blue, so maybe you can answer this for me. This is a pet forum - right??? Well then why is it that you never (except on an extremely rare occasion), post anything about pets - be it yours or anyone else's??? You come here only to be rude and crude - abrupt and abrasive - as you choose to call it. Why don't you take your nastiness to a forum that would appreciate your m.o. - I've heard that there are plenty of them out there and I'm certain that you would be more than welcome to join many of them.

Nope - still no anger on my part.

Have a super happy day!!! :rolleyes:

[sasvermont]

And I'm curious, blue, so maybe you can answer this for me. This is a pet forum - right??? Well then why is it that you never (except on an extremely rare occasion), post anything about pets - be it yours or anyone else's??? You come here only to be rude and crude - abrupt and abrasive - as you choose to call it. Why don't you take your nastiness to a forum that would appreciate your m.o. - I've heard that there are plenty of them out there and I'm certain that you would be more than welcome to join many of them.

I totally agree with Pomtzu. Just for the record.:)

[RICHARD]

Regarding the media and them feeding the outrage about the Sandy Hook shootings?

IF there was few minutes at the end of any new broadcast devoted to clearing up mistakes made during the show?

There probably would be NO news on the tube.

----------------------

During my bouts of insomnia I tune into the rebroadcasts of the days news, any talking head will make me stop and listen.

For the BS, the hairdos and to watch people foam at the mouth.

I also watch for stupidity. Then I watch some more and in the a.m. I do a little searching on the interwebz.

If it's there, I am a French model, right?

------------------------

Last night I managed to catch the last 5 minutes of my favorite stooge, Rachel Maddow.

She is still reporting that an 'assault rifle' was used in the Sandy Hook shootings, contrary to popular belief.

I flipped the channel to FOX news and there was a discussion about the father of a child shot during the massacre.

Bill O'Really (My spelling) was going on about a report from Martin Bashir, an MSNBC puppet head.

MB played a tape from a hearing where the dad was supposedly heckled by 'gun nuts' at the hearing.

----------------------

The tape played, without the cute editing, was nowhere near a crowd heckling that father.

During his testimony, the gentleman challenged the people in attendance as to why they needed assault weapons and the extended magazines.

He stoppped and said there was no one "brave enough" to answer his challenge, after silence from the crowd, he repeated his challenge and a few people spoke up.

A gentleman (one of the politicos) then asked the crowd to quiet down, or the gallery would be cleared.

---------------------

The snappy editing and sloppy reporting made is sound like the GUN NUTS in the seats were acting like morons and disrespecting the man/hearings.

There is enough of a problem with idiots shooting up public areas - now we have to worry about the media making up stories, fanning the flames and never being help responsible for lying to the people who 'rely' on them for a story.

I guess it's true that 'truth be damned'?:mad::rolleyes:

[blue]

Me a stalker??? - that's really funny. All you need to do is look in the mirror to see who is the stalker here - a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Don't flatter yourself by thinking that I am following you.

I only respond to you when you are direct with me, I respect you.


I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Liz or ES, but I most definitely disagree with you and your rude and crude tactics. I suppose that your comment about "snow" wasn't rude and crude ??? - but there you go again - the pot calling the kettle black. Obviously that shoe fit you very well and you are very familiar with snow in all of it's forms.

And I still see no anger in anything I've posted. Try disgust on for size.

I find jokes about liberals and hard drugs funny. Cocaine=snow add in a liberal complaining, funny and I fail to find it crude. Now the urine freezing before it hits the ground, crude? Yes, still funny.


And I'm curious, blue, so maybe you can answer this for me. This is a pet forum - right??? Well then why is it that you never (except on an extremely rare occasion), post anything about pets - be it yours or anyone else's??? You come here only to be rude and crude - abrupt and abrasive - as you choose to call it. Why don't you take your nastiness to a forum that would appreciate your m.o. - I've heard that there are plenty of them out there and I'm certain that you would be more than welcome to join many of them.

I lurk mostly. I dont need my ego fed by the cute things my dogs or cat do so I dont post those. I do enjoy the posts of others, I just dont feel the need to comment. I also dont have the experience to comment in the posts needing expert help.


Nope - still no anger on my part.

Lot of text for no anger issues with me.


Have a super happy day!!! :rolleyes:

Appreciate the happy thoughts while I am under the weather.

To add. Im not much liked here, by you and others. Im sure if I where to start commenting in the general areas my anti fan club would start hijacking innocent threads to attack me, the Echo Chamber.

[blue]

I can expound my response if the previous wasnt sufficient, Pom or sasvermont. Just let me know where I was insufficient.

[pomtzu]

I can expound my response if the previous wasnt sufficient, Pom or sasvermont. Just let me know where I was insufficient.

There you go again - you just can't drop it. However, I'm dropping it, as it really isn't worth my time.

[blue]

Thank you Pom for letting me know my response was sufficient.

[Lady's Human]

To get back on topic....

Finally a statement of fact about the issue from Vice President Biden:

"Nothing we are going to do is fundamentally going to alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down," Biden said, echoing remarks President Barack Obama made in January when he said "there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely."

That being the case, let's try just for a moment enforcing the laws currently on the books, eliminating the barriers against including psychological information in NICS checks, and move on without restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens.

[lizbud]

"Nothing we are going to do is fundamentally going to alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down," Biden said, echoing remarks President Barack Obama made in January when he said "there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely."




The same could be said about traffic offenses, shoplifting, cheating on your income taxes, harrassing your next door neighbor or deciding to hold a party right in the middle
of downtown traffic.

We will never completely stop people from doing any dumb thing they think up to do, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make it unlawful. Think about it. We can't NOT ACT
just because some people will break the law anyway.

Just because the constitution allows citizens to buy a weapon doesn't mean they can purchase ANY type of weapon their little hearts desire. Would you like your neighbor to have
a cannon in his front yard? Having limits can be a good thing.

[Lady's Human]

The same could be said about traffic offenses, shoplifting, cheating on your income taxes, harrassing your next door neighbor or deciding to hold a party right in the middle
of downtown traffic.

We will never completely stop people from doing any dumb thing they think up to do, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make it unlawful. Think about it. We can't NOT ACT
just because some people will break the law anyway.

Just because the constitution allows citizens to buy a weapon doesn't mean they can purchase ANY type of weapon their little hearts desire. Would you like your neighbor to have
a cannon in his front yard? Having limits can be a good thing.

A cannon? No problem. As long as the requisite legalities are taken care of, no issues whatsoever.

The examples you list are examples of people breaking existing laws. There's no constitutional right to do any of the things listed. However, there is a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, upheld by the SCOTUS as an individual right. There are already limits on that right that have been enacted in law and adjudicated as appropriate limits. There is no need for further limits, despite the fearmongering by the media. Had psychiatric conditions been a limiting reason to restrict access to firearms, most of the recent events wouldn't have occurred, however, the right to patient privacy is evidently more important than a truly effective NICS system.

[RICHARD]

A cannon? No problem. As long as the requisite legalities are taken care of, no issues whatsoever.

The examples you list are examples of people breaking existing laws. There's no constitutional right to do any of the things listed. However, there is a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, upheld by the SCOTUS as an individual right. There are already limits on that right that have been enacted in law and adjudicated as appropriate limits. There is no need for further limits, despite the fearmongering by the media. Had psychiatric conditions been a limiting reason to restrict access to firearms, most of the recent events wouldn't have occurred, however, the right to patient privacy is evidently more important than a truly effective NICS system.

http://carbide-cannons.carbidecannon.org/

----------------

Just had a discussion about Sandy Hook versus Aurora (versus Columbine/VA Tech and every other mass) shooting.

I guess some high school kids being shot wasn't as bad as a theater full of people, but a school full of kids gets people to 'act'?

I find it kinda strange that we refuse to put the same price on every life.

------------------

The Diane Feinstein gun act is exactly that, an act.

It's a stupid, minimalist approach (Can you say pretend) to a the existing gun laws.

I had a great laugh about DF going after a gun with a folding stock.

What?

WIH does a folding butt stock have to do with the lethality of a gun?
If you decide carry 12 ten round magazines how is that different than carrying 4 thirty round mags?
Does a foregrip on a gun make it deadlier?

You'd have to ask her, I really don't have an answer.

[cassiesmom]

To get back on topic....

Finally a statement of fact about the issue from Vice President Biden:

"Nothing we are going to do is fundamentally going to alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down," Biden said, echoing remarks President Barack Obama made in January when he said "there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely."

That being the case, let's try just for a moment enforcing the laws currently on the books, eliminating the barriers against including psychological information in NICS checks, and move on without restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens.


Dear VP Biden: Have you paid any attention to what's happened in Chicago this week? A girl with a very promising future was killed when she happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you, as the head of the task force, think that nothing you might do will help -- what does that say to America? Do your best to at least try to come up with something. Meanwhile, if you could help those charged with enforcing the current laws to do their jobs better, that would be a good start. Especially here in Chicago where the people are doing the shooting are at risk of ending up dead or imprisoned. Please listen to all the pastors and mothers and other people who are saying that something must change.

[Karen]

Dear VP Biden: Have you paid any attention to what's happened in Chicago this week? A girl with a very promising future was killed when she happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you, as the head of the task force, think that nothing you might do will help -- what does that say to America? Do your best to at least try to come up with something. Meanwhile, if you could help those charged with enforcing the current laws to do their jobs better, that would be a good start. Especially here in Chicago where the people are doing the shooting are at risk of ending up dead or imprisoned. Please listen to all the pastors and mothers and other people who are saying that something must change.

I feel sorry for the mothers and families of Chicago (and everywhere) whose lives are marred by this violence. But I doubt the guns involved were purchased legally, or the perpetrators have any fear of repercussions from using them illegally. More needs to change in the culture of these neighborhoods - wherever they are - than any law will fix, no matter how far-reaching and specific. Serious, long-term work needs to be done addressing the causes of the violence, which is more to the heart of the matter than the guns by which it gets expressed.

I do think we also need to address the mental health aspect of this, in most "school shootings" cases that make the news, there were red flags raised about the mental health of the eventual shooter, but because of patient privacy laws, nothing was done. But targeting the weapons themselves is far simpler and politically more newsworthy than addressing that difficult, complex, legally and ethically difficult issue of mental health.

[Lady's Human]

CM, if the inanimate objects were the heart of the problem, then there would be far more violent deaths in, for instance, rural areas of upstate New York than there are in Chicago, as firearms are far more prevalent in rural areas than they are in cities.

Most people have them, no one, frankly, cares. As stated earlier in the thread they are simply a part of the landscape.

It's not the firearms, it's the people. You could address the tools all day long, but unless you do something about the root cause of the violence then nothing will change.

[RICHARD]

CM, if the inanimate objects were the heart of the problem, then there would be far more violent deaths in, for instance, rural areas of upstate New York than there are in Chicago, as firearms are far more prevalent in rural areas than they are in cities.

Most people have them, no one, frankly, cares. As stated earlier in the thread they are simply a part of the landscape.

It's not the firearms, it's the people. You could address the tools all day long, but unless you do something about the root cause of the violence then nothing will change.

Assign Eric Holder to monitor the guns. They'll disappear....

[cassiesmom]

CM, if the inanimate objects were the heart of the problem, then there would be far more violent deaths in, for instance, rural areas of upstate New York than there are in Chicago, as firearms are far more prevalent in rural areas than they are in cities.

Most people have them, no one, frankly, cares. As stated earlier in the thread they are simply a part of the landscape.

It's not the firearms, it's the people. You could address the tools all day long, but unless you do something about the root cause of the violence then nothing will change.

There seems to be a lot of finger-pointing. Mayor Emanuel should do something. Or the Chicago schools should do more. Or it's up to Gov. Quinn and the legislature to make better laws. Or the police aren't doing enough. Or the problem is lack of jobs. Or the problem is drugs. Or someone needs to do something about family instability. Round and round we go. There seem to be a lot of causes but no way to hit any one of them hard enough to have a big effect on the violence.

[mon]

If we're gonna over simplify this, I must get this off my chest. My friend says, buy all the guns ya want. Make 'em all legal. Even automatic weapons. Just don't sell ammunition. Guns don't kill folks, bullets do.

[blue]

If we're gonna over simplify this, I must get this off my chest. My friend says, buy all the guns ya want. Make 'em all legal. Even automatic weapons. Just don't sell ammunition. Guns don't kill folks, bullets do.

We can always reload our own ammo. It's easily done.

[phesina]

People say enforce the laws we already have.

Just what are some of the laws already on the books, and why aren't they being enforced?

[Lady's Human]

People say enforce the laws we already have.

Just what are some of the laws already on the books, and why aren't they being enforced?

The shooter in Binghamton a few years back had a pistol permit. He got the permit because the local chief didn't want to deal with a discrimination suit. One of the references the shooter used basically told the police that they wouldn't want the person to have firearms. That is supposed to be an immediate disqualifier. It was ignored.

Fund NICS. Many records aren't getting into the database because there's no funding for a complete implementation.

As much as I hate the Lautenberg act, if you're going to have it on the books, enforce it. Every soldier has to undergo a complete legal check for suitability to carry firearms. Because of funding, many civilians slip through the cracks (If you have a domestic violence conviction of any kind or a restraining order, you're not supposed to have access to firearms)

Eliminate the doublespeak. Even if the Federal Government passes a NICS check including mental health, Massachusetts, for one, has laws on the books barring ANY mental health records screenings. The state injunction against it is far stronger than the federal laws, yet Massachusetts has one of the strongest AWB in the country in place.

There are over 22,000 laws on the books governing firearms between federal and state legislation, including restrictions against those with mental illness acquiring weapons. There is, however, no mandated mental health records check. There are laws barring those who have committed felonies and some misdemeanors from acquiring firearms, but the records check system is underfunded at the Federal level and not funded at all in some states (looking at you, Missouri). Before passing more laws, rationalize and enforce the ones we've got.

[RICHARD]

White House Recipe for Skeet.

Serves 4

Take four skeet - if you go skeet shooting you must follow a few simple steps.

Boil two gallons of water and place the skeet in for approximately 60 seconds, this will allow you to
take the feathers off the birds.

Gut the birds and remove the head and feet - you can keep them for stock.

------------------

Take a pair of kitchen shears and cut the breastbone, then lay flat.

-----------------

Take half a cup of soy sauce, 1/2 teaspoon of ginger, 1/2 teaspoon of salt and pepper, Mix thoroughly.

Place the skeet in a plastic bag and pour the marinade in.

Place into the fridge for 2-3 hours.

------------------

To cook your skeet, you can bake or grill. When temperature - taken from the thigh - reaches 170 degrees the skeet are ready.

[pomtzu]

White House Recipe for Skeet.

Serves 4

Take four skeet - if you go skeet shooting you must follow a few simple steps.

Boil two gallons of water and place the skeet in for approximately 60 seconds, this will allow you to
take the feathers off the birds.

Gut the birds and remove the head and feet - you can keep them for stock.

------------------

Take a pair of kitchen shears and cut the breastbone, then lay flat.

-----------------

Take half a cup of soy sauce, 1/2 teaspoon of ginger, 1/2 teaspoon of salt and pepper, Mix thoroughly.

Place the skeet in a plastic bag and pour the marinade in.

Place into the fridge for 2-3 hours.

------------------

To cook your skeet, you can bake or grill. When temperature - taken from the thigh - reaches 170 degrees the skeet are ready.


I didn't know that clay pigeons had feathers, nor did I realize that they are edible. :eek::D

[Lady's Human]

Looks similar to the recipe for crow they use on Capitol Hill.

[RICHARD]

I didn't know that clay pigeons had feathers, nor did I realize that they are edible. :eek::D

Wait a minute, so what was the presidentshooting at?;)

[Lady's Human]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/politics/gallery/presidents-guns/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

To back up President Barack Obama's statement that he goes skeet shooting regularly, which some Republicans questioned, the White House released this photo of Obama firing a rifle at Camp David in August. See more commanders in chief taking advantage of their right to bear arms.

Guys, if that's a rifle, then I'm Japanese.

[Karen]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/politics/gallery/presidents-guns/index.html?hpt=hp_c2


To back up President Barack Obama's statement that he goes skeet shooting regularly, which some Republicans questioned, the White House released this photo of Obama firing a rifle at Camp David in August. See more commanders in chief taking advantage of their right to bear arms.

Guys, if that's a rifle, then I'm Japanese.

You mean any long gun isn't a rifle, and any gun with a clip isn't an assault rifle? Gee, you mean types of guns have actual names that have meaning?

Maybe someone should take out a full-page ad in some national venue explain the difference between a shot gun, a rifle, a pistol, a revolver, and all the way down the line! It would have to have pictures as well as words, though ...

[RICHARD]

You mean any long gun isn't a rifle, and any gun with a clip isn't an assault rifle? Gee, you mean types of guns have actual names that have meaning?

Maybe someone should take out a full-page ad in some national venue explain the difference between a shot gun, a rifle, a pistol, a revolver, and all the way down the line! It would have to have pictures as well as words, though ...


A shot guns shoots 'shot' - or little pellets of different sizes. They also can shoot slugs or flechettes. Slugs are just like bullets, large hunks of lead. Flechettes are small darts.

When the shot or flechettes leave the barrel they are concentrated - as the go down range they spread out and make it easier to hit what you shoot at.

A shotgun slug is like a large bullet, it's used for large animal hunting.

A shotgun is 'loaded' by moving the foregrip back and forth. There are some old shot guns that use a bolt action method of getting a shell into the breech to shoot.

A bolt action gun is primed by grabbing a lever and moving it backwards to eject the old shell and place a new shell into position.

-------------------------------------------

A rifle is named for the spirals cut into the barrel.

As the bullet leaves the barrel the rifling spins the bullet making it fly straighter - it's a long range weapon.

----------------------------

A revolver is a gun - like a six shooter - that the Cowboys used to use.

It's named for the cylinder that revolves to put a bullet into position to fire.

It doesn't eject empty cartridges.

A pistol, is a magazine fed gun that does eject spent shells, the magazine goes into the grip of the gun.
A magaine is usually a 'box' with a spring at the bottom that feeds the rounds into the chamber to be fired.

-----------------------


More often than not, the politicos talking about GC don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

-----------------

if I made a mistake somewhere, someone will correct me!

[Karen]

Richard, I know all that - I meant for the world's media to see and be quizzed on, so they don't make mistakes like calling the shotgun the president is holding a rifle!

One does not grow up in a family with a grandfather who was chief of police (retired) and a Dad who did Small Arms Repair in the Army without knowing about guns, the different kinds, weights, purposes and ammunition. And to never kid around with them, and other rules that were drilled into us before we were ever allowed to touch any!

[RICHARD]

Richard, I know all that - I meant for the world's media to see and be quizzed on, so they don't make mistakes like calling the shotgun the president is holding a rifle!

One does not grow up in a family with a grandfather who was chief of police (retired) and a Dad who did Small Arms Repair in the Army without knowing about guns, the different kinds, weights, purposes and ammunition. And to never kid around with them, and other rules that were drilled into us before we were ever allowed to touch any!

In my best Emily Litella voice......Never mind!

[lizbud]

" A magaine is usually a 'box' with a spring at the bottom that feeds the rounds into the chamber to be fired."


I thought a"magaine" was a very very bad headache.:D:D J/k

[RICHARD]

" A magaine is usually a 'box' with a spring at the bottom that feeds the rounds into the chamber to be fired."


I thought a"magaine" was a very very bad headache.:D:D J/k

It is, if you get pistol whipped?:eek:;)

[Karen]

Now now, both of you!

A magaZine - either a box-shaped object with an internal spring that feeds the next round into the chamber of the gun, or a printed publication covering news of varying degrees of interest and accuracy - either definition can be used to give a migRaine to the person in question.

As can spelling mistakes and pedantic corrections!

[lizbud]

It is, if you get pistol whipped?:eek:;)


Just funning with ya.:)

I know what they are. My Dad brought one home after WWII.

[RICHARD]

Just funning with ya.:)

I know what they are. My Dad brought one home after WWII.

I found my dad's magazines once.

I could never figure out how people could play volley ball in the nude, yet never get dirty.:confused:

[blue]

I'll just leave this here.

Caught on Camera: Joe Biden admits gun control will not stop mass shootings or save lives - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTyoppK_aDM)

[blue]

The important part, from women with a concealed carry license that wants to deny that right to others.


“The Senators feel the best course of action is to remove all weapons from law enforcement and private citizens so no one else gets hurt,” said a Senate communications intern. “When the gunman realizes that nobody else is armed, he will lay down his weapons and turn himself in…. that’s just human nature.”

Link. (http://www.palookavillepost.com/2013/02/07/feinstein-and-boxer-ask-californians-to-lay-down-their-weapons-during-statewide-manhunt/)

Feinstein is obviously in a demented state, and should have her concealed carry permit revoked.

[chocolatepuppy]

Originally Posted by Senators Feinstein, Boxer

“The Senators feel the best course of action is to remove all weapons from law enforcement and private citizens so no one else gets hurt,” said a Senate communications intern. “When the gunman realizes that nobody else is armed, he will lay down his weapons and turn himself in…. that’s just human nature.”

Really???:rolleyes:

[lizbud]

Could the source of that statement be any more vague? I think not.

[Karen]

The article starts "Feinstein and Boxer Ask Californians to Lay Down Their Weapons During Statewide Manhunt

(PP)- As an ex-Los Angeles police officer killed three people and went on a deadly shooting rampage in a vendetta to punish those he attributed for his firing, California Senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer pleaded for calm, and asked both law enforcement and civilians to lay down their weapons.

An intense manhunt for Christopher Dorner that aroused fear across several states and Mexico focused late Thursday on Big Bear Lake, about 80 miles east of Los Angeles, where police found a burned-out pickup truck that belonged to the ex-military and former police officer Dorner.

Throughout the day, Senators Feinstein and Boxer made desperate pleas for their California constituents to turn in their guns and not confront the crazed gunman because this would be a perfect test of their anti-gun proposals."

So it is colored somewhat by the situation, still kind of off, but the context does matter!

[pomtzu]

Another nut with a gun.........www.abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=8988226

This happened this a.m. about 30 miles north of here in the New Castle County Court House. How did this nut case get thru security with a gun - if there was a security check - and I can't imagine there not being one as you enter the building. When I filed my divorce papers some years ago in Family Court locally in Dover (Kent County), I went thru a security check right inside the front door!!! I'm baffled......

This Thursday, my son has to testify in a case at the Kent County Court House. I think he should go dressed in full body armor!

[RICHARD]

The article starts "Feinstein and Boxer Ask Californians to Lay Down Their Weapons During Statewide Manhunt

(PP)- As an ex-Los Angeles police officer killed three people and went on a deadly shooting rampage in a vendetta to punish those he attributed for his firing, California Senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer pleaded for calm, and asked both law enforcement and civilians to lay down their weapons.

An intense manhunt for Christopher Dorner that aroused fear across several states and Mexico focused late Thursday on Big Bear Lake, about 80 miles east of Los Angeles, where police found a burned-out pickup truck that belonged to the ex-military and former police officer Dorner.

Throughout the day, Senators Feinstein and Boxer made desperate pleas for their California constituents to turn in their guns and not confront the crazed gunman because this would be a perfect test of their anti-gun proposals."

So it is colored somewhat by the situation, still kind of off, but the context does matter!

Why would the people be in danger when this Dorner has targeted uniformed PD?

Feinstein and Boxer are lacking the basic sense of what the 'little people' are about and keep getting elected because people 'know' who they are.

------------------

I guess the two women in that truck the cops fired up should have been more careful and confronted the police in such a careless and reckless manner.....

IF anything that goes to the problem of hiring trigger happy people to the police force.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[RICHARD]

One thing that has amazed me about the media coverage of the rogue ex-cop is the absence of the "Anti-gun" talk on the air.

This nutball is a 'product' of the same system meant to protect us.


So, do we look the other way and ignore the fact that even the people 'trained' to serve and protect are just as apt to become unhinged?

-------------------------

Chris Matthews on the coverage of the standoff - his question to another talking head - "He has an automatic weapon, what does that mean?'

It means you don't need the clutch to use it.


------------------------

If is was some punk cop killer you can bet that dianee feenstein, nutsy pelosi and baba boxer would be screaming from the top of the capitol buildings that "Criminals are loose with weapons of mass destruction!!!!"

What do they have to say now?

This mutton head has killed 4 people, wounded 3 more - he put the LAPD an edge so they go on and shoot up a truck with two women delivering newspapers in the A.M.?

The only people that I don't fear of being armed is me.

I know what end is up and what I'd shoot at.:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

http://news.yahoo.com/bill-allowing-guns-trunks-advances-tennessee-010910078.html

So, cops have to be careful with elephants now?

[cassiesmom]

A girl with a very promising future was killed when she happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There have now been two arrests in this case, which has made the national news. Two gang members were arrested. It's thought that Hadiya and the group of kids she was with were mis-identified by the shooters as members of a rival gang. The CPD Superintendent attributed the arrests to "good police work".

So, again, nothing changes. Two more young African American men will probably go to prison for a long time for this. But it's not likely to decrease the overall incidence of gun violence related to gang membership in Chicago. Could someone please do something to get the guns out of the hands of the wrong people. I know that in the past white people have looked the other way when the perps and the victims are non-white. This case is different, though. Everyone is saying something must change immediately if not sooner.

[Lady's Human]

Sadly, the political will to make significant change in the "gangsta" culture just doesn't exist.

It's not something that DC can toss together a piece of legislation, trot out to the Rose Garden for a presser and a signing ceremony, and be done.

Therefore, it isn't going to happen.

[RICHARD]

Joe Biden says I can have a shotgun.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX7vwivR6cE&feature=player_embedded

[blue]

joe biden says i can have a shotgun.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix7vwivr6ce&feature=player_embedded

SO, MUCH, WANT!!!!! small text.

[RICHARD]

SO, MUCH, WANT!!!!! small text.

I just want a house with a back yard big enough so I could shoot a shotgun w/o people complaining!:D

[Bonny]

Would you consider a water gun? :D

[Karen]

Or a pellet gun? ;)

[blue]

People have been making fire arms as a hobby from the beginning. Now you can print your own AR lower.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/download-this-gun-3d-printed-semi-automatic-fires-over-600-rounds/

[Lady's Human]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/piers-morgan-gun-control-oscar-1743189

Congrats to the Gun Control loon (and no, not all people in favor of gun control are loons, but some certainly fit the bill) for his viewership, which evidently totals more than the population of the United States. His show even out-draws the Super Bowl!!!

From the article:

Piers’ fame is at an all-time high and his nightly CNN show is watched by between 300 to 500 million people.

[Lady's Human]

And in other Gun -related news, the NRA is sponsoring the April Texas race.

Sounds like the BATFE needs to sponsor a car. After all, NASCAR has its roots in running illegal shine, it's primary series sponsor for 2 decades was Winston, the major primary sponsors for 2 teams are Budweiser and Miller, it's only logical.

:p

Better yet, have the BATFE provide the pace car.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/piers-morgan-gun-control-oscar-1743189

Congrats to the Gun Control loon (and no, not all people in favor of gun control are loons, but some certainly fit the bill) for his viewership, which evidently totals more than the population of the United States. His show even out-draws the Super Bowl!!!

From the article:

Piers’ fame is at an all-time high and his nightly CNN show is watched by between 300 to 500 million people.

Well, since that article came from the UK, I'd be a bit skeptical of it. Specially since no one I know of even watches his show. Can't possibly be the entire USA watching it. Of course, there might be other people in other countries watching it. :D:love:

[Lady's Human]

Okay, NY, CT and CO have now all passed laws banning possession of high capacity magazines.

Question?

Pvt. Snuffy is driving home from a national guard drill weekend.

He has his web gear because he's taking it home to clean.

In that web gear is his full battle load of 6 30 round magazines.

Does he get arrested for illegal possession when he gets pulled over for speeding? I hope so, after all, we're a nation of laws, not men. That arrest, moreover, means that he is no longer eligible to be in the military as he has committed a firearm crime, and his continued presence in the military would be a violation of the Lautenberg act. Ah well, $200,000 + down the bunny hole in search of political correctness.

Can we immediately arrest EVERY police officer in those states for possession of an illegal magazine? There are no exemptions in NY for police, can't imagine any other law reads differently as they were mainly pushed by the same people.

[Louie and me]

A five year old kills his two year old sister with his very own "Crickett" rifle! The company selling the children's rifles uses bright colors and calls them Crickett and Chipmunk. Aaaaargh Lord give me strength.

[Lady's Human]

A five year old kills his two year old sister with his very own "Crickett" rifle! The company selling the children's rifles uses bright colors and calls them Crickett and Chipmunk. Aaaaargh Lord give me strength.

And if it had been any number of other more common causes of death, it would have gone completely unreported. However, as this fits the agenda, it gets first page press.

If it bleeds, it leads.

[cassiesmom]

Okay, NY, CT and CO have now all passed laws banning possession of high capacity magazines.

Question?

Pvt. Snuffy is driving home from a national guard drill weekend.

He has his web gear because he's taking it home to clean.

In that web gear is his full battle load of 6 30 round magazines.

Does he get arrested for illegal possession when he gets pulled over for speeding? I hope so, after all, we're a nation of laws, not men. That arrest, moreover, means that he is no longer eligible to be in the military as he has committed a firearm crime, and his continued presence in the military would be a violation of the Lautenberg act. Ah well, $200,000 + down the bunny hole in search of political correctness.

Can we immediately arrest EVERY police officer in those states for possession of an illegal magazine? There are no exemptions in NY for police, can't imagine any other law reads differently as they were mainly pushed by the same people.

But he has to have that equipment because he is a National Guardsman. But if he is a gang banger on the south side of Chicago with those six 30-round magazines, then yes, arrest him for illegal possession. And go after whoever he got the magazines from. But the National Guardsman has a responsibility to possess the appropriate equipment issued to him. I think you should only bust the Guardsman if he lets those magazines get into the wrong hands.

[Lady's Human]

But he has to have that equipment because he is a National Guardsman. But if he is a gang banger on the south side of Chicago with those six 30-round magazines, then yes, arrest him for illegal possession. And go after whoever he got the magazines from. But the National Guardsman has a responsibility to possess the appropriate equipment issued to him. I think you should only bust the Guardsman if he lets those magazines get into the wrong hands.


There's no exception in the law for the National Guard. The Guardsman, as the law currently stands, would be arrested for illegal possession with a 1 year sentence for each magazine.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And so it goes...blah..blah..blah...

And our children keep on dying...

But it is okay... as long as it is not your child who dies!

[Lady's Human]

Checking back just to troll, ES?

How nice.


Explain to me how more laws (endangering a child is already illegal) would fix the latest headline? They wouldn't, more laws in fact would do nothing, but it would allow the politicians to fleece the rubes for another term in office, as they DID something. They didn't do anything substantial, but they did SOMETHING, and that's all that counts, isn't it?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The road to the complete nanny state is paved with the same material, and in both cases the pavement stinks of bovine excrement.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Whatever... I came back because some people...I am not sure if you are familiar with the concept of "people" ...wanted to celebrate my cats today. I honor them as they honor Edwina and Eddie.

You...you are still...apparently...fighting your war to justify your sad...sad..need to kill. Peace baby...peace.

[Lady's Human]

Justify my need to kill?

Are you off your meds? WTH?

[Edwina's Secretary]

How sad L H. I have read of people like you who, when confronted with the absurdity of their statements, resort to accusing others of "being off their meds."

Here's hoping you can look within yourself and find the cause of your anger and need for justifying "instruments for killing ".

[Lady's Human]

I'd make a comment about who really has a need to kill, but that subject has been banned for discussion.

My statements are far from absurd, however, you're too wrapped up in your own little world to see logic. You remind me of paid mourners, good actors and actresses but as real as a $3 bill. The only reason you make so much noise and bother about this issue is so you can feel good about doing the right thing, as opposed to actually getting out and doing something about it.

Internet activists like you are a dime a gross.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Poor, poor LH . If nothing else shoots ... Get a gun ...

Boom boom!

[Lady's Human]

My condolences for your mental state. To live in utter, abject fear of an inanimate object must be a terrible burden, particularly when there are inanimate objects and animate objects which are far, far more likely to bring you to harm, like your bathroom, the car you drive, or your doctor.

[RICHARD]

Checking back just to troll, ES?

How nice.


Explain to me how more laws (endangering a child is already illegal) would fix the latest headline? They wouldn't, more laws in fact would do nothing, but it would allow the politicians to fleece the rubes for another term in office, as they DID something. They didn't do anything substantial, but they did SOMETHING, and that's all that counts, isn't it?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The road to the complete nanny state is paved with the same material, and in both cases the pavement stinks of bovine excrement.

LOL,

The people who want the government to background check are the same people who fear Kroger shopper cards because they collect info on what we buy when we shop.

(Have you ever driven in CA? Those hellish roads are in need of paving...)

-----------------

The town hall meetings where the attendees are asking the politicos about their voting habits are pretty interesting.

If they don't answer the question in one meeting, what makes them think that they will get an answer the next time?

[RICHARD]

WTH, he did pass a background check.:confused::eek:;)

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/miami-cop-fired-8-times-141430862.html

---------------------------

Why make it a "universal" background check, start with planet earth.....

[Alysser]

Whatever... I came back because some people...I am not sure if you are familiar with the concept of "people" ...wanted to celebrate my cats today. I honor them as they honor Edwina and Eddie.

You...you are still...apparently...fighting your war to justify your sad...sad..need to kill. Peace baby...peace.

Did you honestly just say that? His need to kill? Really?? Really??

Why is there not a emi-con of someone banging their head against a wall?

Yep, sure, every single person who doesn't support a gun ban is all for killing. Yep, you really got it right.

This thread reminds me of a girl in my speech class who felt the need to tell someone after my demo speech on archery (ARCHERY) that she didn't understand the need for blood sports? What? Sureeee, bet that hay bales bleeding out real bad.

[cassiesmom]

I heard on the news tonight (on WBBM-AM radio for those of you in the Chicago area) that the NRA would like to give away guns in Chicago and other big cities affected by crime. Their rationale is that if more citizens were armed, crime would decrease. I don't know about other cities, but in Chicago I can just see those guns quickly falling into the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Giving more people guns is NOT likely to decrease crime, at least not in this town. It's going to take more police, more programs to strengthen families and keep kids out of gangs, and more opportunities for teenagers to have a life other than early parenting, welfare, prison or early death.

[Lady's Human]

I heard on the news tonight (on WBBM-AM radio for those of you in the Chicago area) that the NRA would like to give away guns in Chicago and other big cities affected by crime. Their rationale is that if more citizens were armed, crime would decrease. I don't know about other cities, but in Chicago I can just see those guns quickly falling into the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Giving more people guns is NOT likely to decrease crime, at least not in this town. It's going to take more police, more programs to strengthen families and keep kids out of gangs, and more opportunities for teenagers to have a life other than early parenting, welfare, prison or early death.

Sadly, that isn't going to happen,, because it takes more than a sound bite to actually fix social problems. Nothing proposed by either side is going to fix Chicago, or any other urban issues, for that matter.

[cassiesmom]

Sadly, that isn't going to happen,, because it takes more than a sound bite to actually fix social problems. Nothing proposed by either side is going to fix Chicago, or any other urban issues, for that matter.

That's how it's starting to look around here. The Chicago Police Department announced that they have already spent two thirds of their overtime budget for the entire year - just since January. Warm weather and festival season isn't even here yet and that's when things in Chicago tend to go all wonky. Nothing proposed by either side is going to fix Chicago until Chicago decides it doesn't want to be the dysfunctional, murder capital of America, city it has become. Apparently a teenage honor student and a 6 month old baby aren't enough collateral damage. They just keep shooting.

[chocolatepuppy]

Did you honestly just say that? His need to kill? Really?? Really??

Why is there not a emi-con of someone banging their head against a wall?

Yep, sure, every single person who doesn't support a gun ban is all for killing. Yep, you really got it right.

This thread reminds me of a girl in my speech class who felt the need to tell someone after my demo speech on archery (ARCHERY) that she didn't understand the need for blood sports? What? Sureeee, bet that hay bales bleeding out real bad.

Alyssa! You shot a bale of hay with an arrow??? :eek: :p
I bought a second gun. Guess I'm really needing to kill! Haven't shot anyone yet. My guns haven't got up and shot anyone yet either.;)
Have shot at the shooting range.:cool:

[Alysser]

Alyssa! You shot a bale of hay with an arrow??? :eek: :p
I bought a second gun. Guess I'm really needing to kill! Haven't shot anyone yet. My guns haven't got up and shot anyone yet either.;)
Have shot at the shooting range.:cool:

Yep, I left it out there bleeding in the woods too! :p Poor thing.

[Lady's Human]

Yep, I left it out there bleeding in the woods too! :p Poor thing.

What about all the paper targets I leave out to bleed out? Which feels more pain, hay bales or paper?

[Alysser]

What about all the paper targets I leave out to bleed out? Which feels more pain, hay bales or paper?

:mad: How dare you! Oh wait, I did the same thing ;)

I am not sure, how about the foam block in my yard, wonder if the neighbors have called the cops on us yet due to the gruesome sight.

[Puckstop31]

Is this too awful for this site? :) A neat, but very expensive thing to have happen. It is pretty cool, as long as it does not happen again.

56347

I call that a pretty tight group. LOL Could not do it again if I tried.

[Lady's Human]

Oh the humanity!!!!

How could you do that to an innocent block of foam and an equally innocent arrow!

[Puckstop31]

I know, right? ;) I even used a compound bow with a mechanical release. Some people call me a 'cheater' because of it. lol

[Alysser]

So much blood, you might be banned! ;)

Hehe, that's definitely some kind of accomplishment! :p I am lucky if I get a bullseye once in any round! If you use a Compound Bow and you still suck does that count as cheating :D

[RICHARD]

Saw a news report on a 'printable, plastic' gun that was successfully fired.

It was made on a used 8,000 dollar 3-D printer, some plans off the internets, about 40 dollars worth of material and about 6-8 hours of time.

The only metal part was a nail, used as a firing pin.

:eek:

[Puckstop31]

Hehe, that's definitely some kind of accomplishment! :p I am lucky if I get a bullseye once in any round! If you use a Compound Bow and you still suck does that count as cheating :D

Ha. Nope. :)

When I am gearing up for archery season (opens in late September, I start seriously shooting in late May) I shoot a dozen every day. I would shoot more, but my hunting bow draws at 68lbs so I don't want to wear my arm out too much. lol For me, the keys to accurate archery are 3 key points.

- Soft hands with your bow arm. Do not have too tight a grip. When you shoot the bow should naturally drop forward.

- Move your waist when making vertical aiming corrections, rather than moving your bow arm. You want your arms and head to be the same each time you shoot. This is especially true for tree stand type shooting. Being higher that your target changes the range you need to aim at. I need to get a range finder that takes angle into account.

- If you don't use one now, get a 'kisser button' on your string. That way you know that your form is correct each time you draw. A 'kisser' is a little piece on the string that you bring to the corner of your mouth when drawn and aiming.

Good luck!

[Catty1]

Saw a news report on a 'printable, plastic' gun that was successfully fired.

It was made on a used 8,000 dollar 3-D printer, some plans off the internets, about 40 dollars worth of material and about 6-8 hours of time.

The only metal part was a nail, used as a firing pin.

:eek:

The people who developed it will put a chunk of steel in it to trigger airport alarms. Right now they are made of lego plastic - they're good for about 2 uses and they break. At the moment, 3D printers can't print big items. This was made in Austin, Texas. Somehow that does not surprise me.

It's made by Defense Distributors, a non-profit. http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/06/worlds-first-plastic-gun-made-with-3d-printer-successfully-fired-in-the-united-states/

Sad thing is this process can be used to build new ears, noses etc for people who lose them due to accidents or illness. There are good and bad uses for everything.

[RICHARD]

The people who developed it will put a chunk of steel in it to trigger airport alarms. Right now they are made of lego plastic - they're good for about 2 uses and they break. At the moment, 3D printers can't print big items. This was made in Austin, Texas. Somehow that does not surprise me.

It's made by Defense Distributors, a non-profit. http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/06/worlds-first-plastic-gun-made-with-3d-printer-successfully-fired-in-the-united-states/

Sad thing is this process can be used to build new ears, noses etc for people who lose them due to accidents or illness. There are good and bad uses for everything.

The chunk of steel is an 'option' and doesn't affect the use if the weapon.:eek:

[Catty1]

I know, RICHARD. One can only hope that most people who might use this type of printer can't read the blueprints...:(

[Lady's Human]

These printers are just more proof that gun control is a farce. You'd have an easier time nailing jello to a wall. Criminals are going to get weapons. Why disarm the populace and make it easier for them?

BTW, you don't need to be able to read blueprints to use these printers, it's as easy as downloading a file and hitting print.

[Catty1]

These printers are just more proof that gun control is a farce. You'd have an easier time nailing jello to a wall. Criminals are going to get weapons. Why disarm the populace and make it easier for them?

BTW, you don't need to be able to read blueprints to use these printers, it's as easy as downloading a file and hitting print.

Oh ok, the head of DD was saying that he put the "blueprints" out there, but he could have been speaking figuratively. And yes, after that interview there was much discussion about gun laws etc.

They could always track who has those 3D printers - I mean, I think most folks would want the warranty on them! Even if they were sold or given to someone else, mandatory printer registration would give a bit of a trail to follow if necessary.

[Lady's Human]

Oh ok, the head of DD was saying that he put the "blueprints" out there, but he could have been speaking figuratively. And yes, after that interview there was much discussion about gun laws etc.

They could always track who has those 3D printers - I mean, I think most folks would want the warranty on them! Even if they were sold or given to someone else, mandatory printer registration would give a bit of a trail to follow if necessary.

Why trace an innocuous object like a printer? Create another black market? Someone with a mill, a lathe and a little skill could make guns in their home as it is if they were determined to.

It's not the tool, it's the sick individual behind the trigger you have to worry about.

We keep non-violent offenders in jail for comparatively heavy sentences for possession and possession with intent, but people who get jailed for violent crimes serve light sentences.

There's a whole bunch of things wrong with society, the availability of firearms of whatever sort isn't the problem. Banning firearms to reduce violent crimes is like putting a bandaid on a severed limb, stepping back, posing for the cameras and saying "there, all better, we fixed the problem!"

[RICHARD]

Why trace an innocuous object like a printer? Create another black market? Someone with a mill, a lathe and a little skill could make guns in their home as it is if they were determined to.

It's not the tool, it's the sick individual behind the trigger you have to worry about.

We keep non-violent offenders in jail for comparatively heavy sentences for possession and possession with intent, but people who get jailed for violent crimes serve light sentences.

There's a whole bunch of things wrong with society, the availability of firearms of whatever sort isn't the problem. Banning firearms to reduce violent crimes is like putting a bandaid on a severed limb, stepping back, posing for the cameras and saying "there, all better, we fixed the problem!"

Does anyone still make zipguns? Homemade guns! I saw one made from a car antenna and rubber bands, the other made from billet steel- both were ingenious designs and the car antenna model was easy to make.

The steel gun was made from one piece of steel by a guy that worked in a machine shop and unless you knew what you were looking at, you'd never realize it was a gun.

---------------

Now that there is a 'plastic gun' you have to look at all the problems it brings.

Just like a Xerox machine, there will be ways to track who buys it - either through sales/repair records.

Just like the sale of the meds that make meth, you probably will have to show some kind of ID to buy materials to make a gun?

You'll have to register the down loads of the program and how will they be tracked? The same way pirated music is tracked and those laws enforced?


Then you have to look at the viability of making a gun that probably won't last more than a few shots, has to be reloaded after each shot and may blow up in your face.

Although a disposable plastic gun makes certain crimes easier, I would not want to get into a shootout with one.

Something about watching Wile E. Coyote having a gun blow up in face that makes me hesitate.:o;)

[Lady's Human]

Lost in all the media sensationalism.....

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507,0,3022693.story

Gun crime has plunged in the United States since its peak in the middle of the 1990s, including gun killings, assaults, robberies and other crimes, two new studies of government data show.

[cassiesmom]

Now that there is a 'plastic gun' you have to look at all the problems it brings.



I've read about the plastic gun. I heard on the news that they're using a similar type of copier technology to develop tissue for burn patients and children born with malformations of their ears. But my question is this: if the gun is plastic, will it be able to pass through a metal detector without being picked up? Would the manufacturer have to "tag" it somehow?

[Lady's Human]

The "manufacturer" would be anyone with a 3-d printer, and basic computer skills. The ammo, however, would still show up on a metal detector. Without ammo, the firearm is useless. (Unless of course you have some of the experimental rounds that the Army was using in one test variant of the M-16, but the bullets were still metal, even though the casings and primer were plastic)

[blue]

Any USA citizen can manufacture a firearm legally, as long as it isnt for sale, without a serial number or "tag". This is true without using a 3D printer. I could make an AK-47 out of a shovel and it would be completely legal. No 3D printer needed.

[Lady's Human]

Any USA citizen can manufacture a firearm legally, as long as it isnt for sale, without a serial number or "tag". This is true without using a 3D printer. I could make an AK-47 out of a shovel and it would be completely legal. No 3D printer needed.

The difference is that most people would be physically incapable of making an AK out of anything besides a pile of AK parts.

What has the Brady bunch in a tither is that with 3-d printers anyone who can press the "print" button on a PC can make one.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Justify my need to kill?

Are you off your meds? WTH?

Apparently you have run out of your "little blue pills" again! Need to sublimate! Make sure everyone knows how...:eek::eek:

And ...as you will surely call me a troll or whatever...please show me the "rules" about how often one must post to be considered a legitimate poster? I see some folks who haven't posted in AGES and I missed where you bullied them for it???

[cassiesmom]

What has the Brady bunch in a tither is that with 3-d printers anyone who can press the "print" button on a PC can make one.


Anyone who can hit "print" on a PC and happens to have access to a 3-D printer. I can picture it now... a few days of someone staying at work late and bam, there are more guns on the streets.

In Maryland they passed a law requiring new gun owners to submit digital fingerprints to the state police. I heard on the news that Beretta and the NRA plan to challenge the law in court after it goes into effect October 1. I don't see the problem. They want their products to wind up in the hands of responsible gun owners, and responsible gun owners will get fingerprinted. Got a problem with that? Exhibit A: Hadiya Pendleton, who won't get to go to college. Exhibit B: Jonylah Watkins, who will never get to take her first steps.

[blue]

Exhibit A: Hadiya Pendleton, who won't get to go to college. Exhibit B: Jonylah Watkins, who will never get to take her first steps.

Where not killed by responsible firearm owners.

[Lady's Human]

Anyone who can hit "print" on a PC and happens to have access to a 3-D printer. I can picture it now... a few days of someone staying at work late and bam, there are more guns on the streets.

In Maryland they passed a law requiring new gun owners to submit digital fingerprints to the state police. I heard on the news that Beretta and the NRA plan to challenge the law in court after it goes into effect October 1. I don't see the problem. They want their products to wind up in the hands of responsible gun owners, and responsible gun owners will get fingerprinted. Got a problem with that? Exhibit A: Hadiya Pendleton, who won't get to go to college. Exhibit B: Jonylah Watkins, who will never get to take her first steps.

How would the fingerprinting law have helped either child?

The perps who killed them didn't acquire the guns legally.

[Lady's Human]

Want to control guns?

How about let's start enforcing existing laws.....

Like this:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/9286124/mike-goodson-new-york-jets-arrested-drug-weapons-charges

If it wasn't an NFL player, they'd still be sitting in jail waiting for their hearing.

DUI, accessory to DUI, pot (which I REALLY don't care about) and guns in the car, and they're back out on the street.

Enforce the damned laws. I'm willing to bet that if the laws as they stand were firmly enforced, people would be railing about how draconian they are. Controlling objects accomplishes nothing if society can't control people.

[RICHARD]

Want to control guns?

How about let's start enforcing existing laws.....

Like this:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/9286124/mike-goodson-new-york-jets-arrested-drug-weapons-charges

If it wasn't an NFL player, they'd still be sitting in jail waiting for their hearing.

DUI, accessory to DUI, pot (which I REALLY don't care about) and guns in the car, and they're back out on the street.

Enforce the damned laws. I'm willing to bet that if the laws as they stand were firmly enforced, people would be railing about how draconian they are. Controlling objects accomplishes nothing if society can't control people.

Hey, what ever happened to the American kid who got caught tagging and got his butt whupped?

I bet that took the wind outta his sails.......sometimes the best way is the hardest way.

[lizbud]

This Indiana case is a prime example of a person who should not be allowed to keep guns. After his arrest he was diagnosed
with a mental disorder & he now wants his guns back, all 48 of them. (His guns were seized after he was arrested)

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/man-wants-guns-back-that-bloomington-police-seized

[Karen]

I wonder what Indiana laws are regarding mental health issues ... and whether that diagnosis could be used to keep him from getting the guns back ... Mental health is such a hot-button topic, and so tricky to define and enforce ...

[Lady's Human]

I wonder what Indiana laws are regarding mental health issues ... and whether that diagnosis could be used to keep him from getting the guns back ... Mental health is such a hot-button topic, and so tricky to define and enforce ...

Indiana laws are actually immaterial in this case, as he has been diagnosed with a mental illness. If he is mentally ill and that holds up in a challenge, by Federal law he cannot possess firearms.