Gun control discussion

[sasvermont]

Not all the information is in quite yet. I can't imagine mowing down kindergarten children and first graders. What a sick person he must have been. Mental health can be a fragile thing. I understand the killer had his brother's ID on him. Gosh, such damage to hundreds of people. Their lives will be a mess for years to come.

I hate guns. I would never own one. I see no reason why anyone needs an automatic "anything" gun-wise. Let's get the Glocks (?) off the street. I understand the killer went through hundreds of bullets ... many, many rounds.

This story makes me sick and angry.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Ah yes. Here we go again. Excuses, excuses, excuses. If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns! The Second Amendment! I need my gun to protect my family! They got the guns illegally so laws would do no good.

And..."in China they had a spat of knife killings." :rolleyes::rolleyes: Oh please - I have no idea what that has to do with anything but I would take my chances with a knife nut over a gun nut any day.

This is two of these public shootings in a week. In what is supposedly the season of peace and goodwill!!

In a week or two, when all the children are buried we will forget about it...until the next one. And there will be a next one.

Then once again we will hear... If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns! The Second Amendment! I need my gun to protect my family! They got the guns illegally so laws would do no good.

I guess we will continue to curse the darkness instead of lighting a candle.

[Lady's Human]

I guess we will continue to curse the darkness instead of lighting a candle.


Absolutely. After all, Hippa rights disallow mental health record checks with NICS. It's more important to sequester those records than to allow them in background checks.

[RICHARD]

Pork chop murder.


http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/roommate-killed-over-pork-chop-tom-hahn-accused-of-shooting-robert-gray-in-florida

Will the alledged shooter be grilled?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Absolutely. After all, Hippa rights disallow mental health record checks with NICS. It's more important to sequester those records than to allow them in background checks.

I would agree with you regarding mental health record checks. But there are also the "gun show" loop holes that should be closed. There are so many things that could be - and should be done.

Unfortunately we will hear about gun owners' rights and the politicians will be too scared to do what they should do.

p.s. It is HIPAA - Health Insurance Portability & Accountability Act.

[Lady's Human]

Unfortunately we will hear about gun owners' rights and the politicians will be too scared to do what they should do.



Rights that the vast majority of gun owners have never abused.

The politicians should be scared to touch basic rights. If they weren't I'd worry.

[lizbud]

gun laws are a tricky issue for sure. But every time there are rumors of tightening the reigns on gun owners, they just go out and buy more while they still can, trust me.


You can't tighten the reigns on the owners, but we can & should ban the sale of "assault " type weapons with the potencial to kill a whole bunch
of people with little effort by the shooter. Tell me what good use you know of for a weapon that shoots so many rounds of ammo in just minutes?

[Lady's Human]

Assault weapons are a scam foisted on the public to scare people.

I can think of a number of formerly legal yet now banned (they AWB killed the companies that made the weapons) semi-auto .22s that were banned because of cosmetics under the unlamented AWB. They were no more dangerous than a squirrel hunting rifle, but they looked scary!

The action of the weapon means absolutely nothing, unless you're going to restrict people to single shot weapons. and even then it's a specious argument.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Don't change anything...don't fix anything because in 1776 ...blah...blah...blah.

It is so sad.....

[Lady's Human]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Don't change anything...don't fix anything because in 1776 ...blah...blah...blah.

It is so sad.....

Who has said don't change or fix anything?

I mentioned repairing a very large and real loophole in current law. The gun show loophole account for a miniscule number of transactions. Just like the Assault Weapons ban, it's pointless window dressing with no real impact for anyone other than lawful gun owners.

Adding mental health records checks to the NICS system would close a huge loophole which allows many to acquire firearms who shouldn't have them.

[Lady's Human]

Blah, blah, blah ... still clinging to the right to have guns in your bedrooms.

If you're gong to insist on discussing this like a juvenile, please find another thread to pollute.

[Lady's Human]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Don't change anything...don't fix anything because in 1776 ...blah...blah...blah.

It is so sad.....

While we're picking nits, the US Constitution was debated and passed in 1787, became the law of the land in 1789, and the Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791. without the accompanying bill of rights, the Constitution would not have passed, as the states felt that the unmodified document gave the Federal Government too much power.

[robinh]

Read this on another site:

People are already offering up solutions to this tragedy. There isn't one.

Evil people exist. They always will. Some people are simply born broken. They want to rape, kill, hurt, whatever.

You can prepare for them, look out for them, and do your best to be vigilant, but you can't legislate them or counsel them to not be broken.

[cassiesmom]

Two police officers were shot and one of them was killed by a 15 year old in Memphis today.



That's awful. Police officers, my goodness. Gun laws are a very tricky issue indeed.


Adding mental health records checks to the NICS system would close a huge loophole which allows many to acquire firearms who shouldn't have them.
LH, a comment, though- mental health advocates aren't going to like this one; they are going to argue for the person's right to privacy. But I think my right to be safe from a person with a history of mental illness purchasing a gun trumps that person's right to privacy. If you step up to a counter and say you want to buy a gun, you should be prepared for your background to be checked. You don't like that, don't buy a gun. Or they will just get around it by acquiring a gun illegally.

[Lady's Human]

LH, a comment, though- mental health advocates aren't going to like this one; they are going to argue for the person's right to privacy. But I think my right to be safe from a person with a history of mental illness purchasing a gun trumps that person's right to privacy. If you step up to a counter and say you want to buy a gun, you should be prepared for your background to be checked. You don't like that, don't buy a gun. Or they will just get around it by acquiring a gun illegally.

There's no need to violate privacy, just have the system set up to flag the app for mental illness without specifying what the illness is. If the individual feels that they are being unfairly targeted for whatever reason, then let them go to court and have a judge rule on the issue.

I know people with absolutely immaculate records who could legally own firearms due to the NICS not having anything to do with a mental health check. Frankly a couple of them shouldn't be able to have anything more dangerous than a flexipen, but because their mental competency isn't part of the equation, they can legally own firearms if they so desired.

[aTailOf2Kitties]

the more I think about it, there are similarities between guns and pitbulls. People who have either one generally love them and don't want to give them up. Anyone who has been attacked or shot, wants them all destroyed or heavily restricted. Responsible owners can safely use dogs or guns to protect family and property, and irresponsible folks collect and show either of them off for "street cred" or to do harm.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

They said on the news this evening that the guns the guy used to kill the people at the school and his own mother, were all legally owned, by her!!!

Though I come from a hunting family, I hate guns. Specially the assult types. I don't buy the reasoning that you need one of those to go hunting. You don't need one to kill a deer or even a moose. Those are used for slaughtering on a large scale.

I also know, that if someone wants a gun badly enough they will get one. Even if gun sells were now banned, there are enough out there to arm a small nation.

So, I guess it boils down to I don't know the answer on gun control.

Where I would start, is putting metal dectors and an armed security guard or two in all the schools. Lock the schools down after a certain time each morning and not let any one in unless they are serched by the guards and go through the metal dectors. I know it will make the shools like prisons, but that is better than having children slaughtered. As for the cost: I'd think the gov would do well to cover that cost. I'd rather my tax dollars go for keeping children safe than sending money to countries who hate us.

Just my opinions! (don't yell at me when you disagree, my blood pressure is high enough):love:

[Edwina's Secretary]

LH, a comment, though- mental health advocates aren't going to like this one; they are going to argue for the person's right to privacy. But I think my right to be safe from a person with a history of mental illness purchasing a gun trumps that person's right to privacy. If you step up to a counter and say you want to buy a gun, you should be prepared for your background to be checked. You don't like that, don't buy a gun. Or they will just get around it by acquiring a gun illegally.

There are so many ways to get a gun that do not involve a background check! Gun shows, buy from your neighbor (or perhaps the guy who was trying to sell some guns last week and accidently killed his - what was it - 7 year old son??)

And I am talking about legal guns.

So excuse me for getting the YEAR in the 18th century wrong. It was still the 18th century. This is the 21st. Times change. Firearms change and increase in KILLING ABILITY. The country is bigger and full of more people than could have been dreamed of in 1776 or 1787 or 1789 or 1791.

The world is too different to hang your hat - or your "instrument of death" - on what was acceptable in the 18th century.

Unless, of course, you think that leeches and cupping are still great medical treatments???

[RICHARD]

Emeril Legasse is selling knives on a TV shopping network.

Anyone with a credit card can buy these.

We need laws to protect people.

------------------------------

The 'assault rifle' didn't come into play in this incident.

It was in the car - the damage was done with two easily concealable guns.

------------------------

The media covering this are a bunch of effing morons - I am watching Nancy Grace, waiting for the mention of her twins ........I especially find the interviews of the kids, "WHAT DID YOU SEE???????" to be so cruel and irresponsible - The lyrics of the song Dirty Laundry come to mind....

This is a brutal and senseless act by some idiot with guns he took from his mother.

The reporters use terms like "lethal weapon" - If you take the bullets out of a gun does it make it non-lethal?

Two pistols used, and now every gun on the planet is suspect?

-------------------------

I can see some yoyo being told he cannot buy a gun, walking out of the shop and running over 10 people because he's ticked off.

I am more afraid of some doofus with an ICBM or a handle on some material to make a dirty bomb.

-------------------

I make my living off the Evening News
Just give me something-something I can use
People love it when you lose,
They love dirty laundry

Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
I just have to look good, I don't have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down


We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
Comes on at five
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam
In her eye
It's interesting when people die-
Give us dirty laundry

Can we film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know, the boys in the newsroom got a
Running bet
Get the widow on the set!
We need dirty laundry

You don't really need to find out what's going on
You don't really want to know just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough love
Eat your dirty laundry

Kick 'em when they're up

Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're stiff
Kick 'em all around

Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybody's pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry

We can do "The Innuendo"
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done we haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry!

- D Henley

[Edwina's Secretary]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg23/EdwinaandEddie/guns_zps1c70bc22.jpg

[RICHARD]

Nancy Grace hammers home the news that the kid's bodies are still lying where they fell and what about the poor parents.

Nothing like an effing ghoul making sure we hear every gory detail.

--------------

Actually?

Our media is pretty tame compared to the media in Mexico.

There is a mexican 'rag' called ALARMA. (I wondered if it was still being published all these years later, and yep it's still going strong........)

We called it the "crash book" because of the pictures in it.

They had no problem publishing photos of people that had died grisly deaths - Nothing like seeing a person all tangled up in a death pose after an auto accident.

The Media down Mexico Way is nothing like the morons we have here in the US.

----------------

Cue the intro of the "School Shooting Massacre" with the eerie music in the background.

[RICHARD]

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2012/12/after-the-newtown-shooting-americas-gun-shame.html

...... and that ain't Bull Stuff, people!

Well, at least we don't shame people into suicide for passing on a prank phone call?

It's always a huge story when it happens here in the States, yet we kinda pass off the story about kids and other innocents getting slaughtered in places we can't find on a map?

The Brits are an amusing bunch, they have the answers but refuse to share them with us.:eek:

[Edwina's Secretary]

Yes...let's not look at the results of gun violence! It might offend the sensibilities of the much-cossetted gun lovers!

We prefer death and carnage pretty? Come back tomorrow night and the person who was shot will be perfectly healed.

Oh please.

[Alysser]

The guns were legally registered in his mother's name:
-In CT, you can't possess a handgun under the age of 21.
He was 20.
-You must complete a handgun safety course, give fingerprints and have your background to obtain a firearm in your name.
He didn't. He stole them all from his mom.

His mom, a responsible gun owner, had her guns stolen by a psycho who clearly didn't give a rats a$$ about laws of any kind, let alone small petty ones like that.

I don't understand what you anti-gun people think stricter gun laws or bans are going to do, I really don't. They are called criminals for a reason, I don't get what you think a few laws are going to do. That really makes no sense to me, whatsoever.

[Edwina's Secretary]

What makes you think his mother was a "responsible gun owner?" She had a son with mental illness and three accessible instruments of death ...aka guns. If THAT is responsible gun ownership...god help us all.

[chocolatepuppy]

I don't understand what you anti-gun people think stricter gun laws or bans are going to do, I really don't. They are called criminals for a reason, I don't get what you think a few laws are going to do. That really makes no sense to me, whatsoever.

Agree 100%. My gun is still sitting on the dresser.

[RICHARD]

"Richard" is brimming with specious reasoning.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Those dang motes.

[Lady's Human]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Agreed, especially when filled with bias which precludes them from seeing the other side of the discussion.

Gun control is impractical, especially in the US. Guns don't bother me, they are inanimate objects with no will or motivation of their own. It bothers me far more that mental illness is brushed under the rug and ignored. Easier to go after the low hanging fruit than have a serious discussion about solving the real problem. The FBI can set up sting operations which "catch" people in the act of plotting possible terrorist acts, (when in many cases it's questionable whether the person would have gone down that particular road without "help" from the sting op), yet we do nothing about ensuring those who are mentally ill are taken care of. Easier to clean up the mess and ignore it until next time.

We trample all over some people's rights under the aegis of stopping terrorism, but ignore societal issues like mental illness treatment because fixing that particular issue would be too messy. Much like the current budget issues, we prefer to just stick a bandaid on the problem and let someone else come up with a solution at a later date.

I'm willing to bet that someone failed to follow school security protocols, but the AAR won't come for some time. By that time the Media will have moved off the story and gone back to whatever the Kardashians are doing.

[Randi]

But I think my right to be safe from a person with a history of mental illness purchasing a gun trumps that person's right to privacy.
Well said and I agree, of course.


His mom, a responsible gun owner, had her guns stolen by a psycho...
A responsible gun owner?? :rolleyes: If she had been, this would not have happened!


Many argue that having a gun is to protect themselves, but would you really shoot an intruder, or someone who breaks the law out in the street? The police are there for protecting people and I suspect they are highly trained in when and where to use a gun - well, even some policemen have misjudged a situation, so why do you think you can judge better?

[cassiesmom]

School security protocols- my mom told me that the school principal and psychologist tried to head off the shooter and he just shot them and kept going. I know at the schools where my family members teach, there is one entrance to the building that isn't locked after school begins. If anyone needs to get into school during the day you have to go through the front door and be checked in.

A question for those of you who understand this better than I do. What was the intent of the writers of the Bill of Rights when they included the Second Amendment? Was it to allow people to have guns in case they were needed for military service? Was it to allow an individual citizen, not necessarily a militia member, to have a gun? Now we have modern police forces and extremely efficient guns and rifles. They couldn't have seen either of those coming.

And another question. All the news reports have said this is an idyllic suburban community. Why, then, did the shooter's mother have guns in her possession?

I read a column by Mel Robbins in which she argues that taking a look at mental illness needs to be a part of ending these types of shootings. I think she's on to something.

[pomtzu]

If this guy's mother was the gun(s) owner, and was a "responsible" gun owner, I can't help but wonder if this responsible person had the guns under lock and key. If she did, she might still be alive - along with the 20 children and 6 adults that are dead because of her guns! :mad:

[Bonny]

School security protocols- my mom told me that the school principal and psychologist tried to head off the shooter and he just shot them and kept going. I know at the schools where my family members teach, there is one entrance to the building that isn't locked after school begins. If anyone needs to get into school during the day you have to go through the front door and be checked in.

A question for those of you who understand this better than I do. What was the intent of the writers of the Bill of Rights when they included the Second Amendment? Was it to allow people to have guns in case they were needed for military service? Was it to allow an individual citizen, not necessarily a militia member, to have a gun? Now we have modern police forces and extremely efficient guns and rifles. They couldn't have seen either of those coming.

And another question. All the news reports have said this is an idyllic suburban community. Why, then, did the shooter's mother have guns in her possession?

I read a column by Mel Robbins in which she argues that taking a look at mental illness needs to be a part of ending these types of shootings. I think she's on to something.

If the guns were owned by the mom then you wonder how mentally stable she was? Did she drive her son to do this horrific crime? You just don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

[Alysser]

I'm sorry, I misworded that. I should have added presumably in front of it to prove my point. They never said if the guns were locked up or not. He killed her at home, I think he would have stopped at nothing to get these guns, and I'm sure she could not have prevented that after he showed up at her house.

You honestly think if they were this wouldn't have happened? I am sure this would have happened either way, unfortunately.

[RICHARD]

I once sat on a jury for a case involving a mentally unstable man and a gun.

--------------

The parents of this kid called the cops when their son got the gun out of the car trunk and threatened them with it.

The story was that the father took the gun from the son, to keep it out of his hands, put it into the car and left the keys on a hook in the kitchen.

------------

So, if we convicted the son (the charge was minor one) he would get help for his short-circuit.t

--------

My problem was the fact that the parents didn't take the proper steps to assure their kid DIDN'T have access to the gun. Had they taken the steps to get the gun out of their household/easy reach, they would not have to have gone thru the incident.

Are we going to dog-pile on the mom for not securing the weapons? And if she did take the steps to secure them how did the shooter get past them?

---------------------

The mental illness issue is an important one.

People are willing to overlook the 'kooky uncle', 'different son', 'crazy brother' as someone who is a PITA and pretty harmless until they fall off their swing.

After that, you can go in front of the camera and say "he did seem to be a little odd....." or " I was waiting for him to snap....", "I USED TO KNOW HIM, HE SEEMED LIKE A REGULAR GUY."

Or the standard, "I am not surprised this guy snapped."

----------------

I go nuts when the media begins to compare it, rate it?, on the Top Ten List of nutbags with guns.

"This is the second highest, third highest, Number One!!!!!!! body count on record!"

My other peeve is with the 'reporting' - it's a bunch of AHs reading tweets and regurgitating it as truth. In El Lay you are more likely to see a reporter with a mike in one hand and reading off a cellphone they have in the other hand.

The media, in their haste to bring you the 'inside scoop', will broadcast any tidbit, then correct it as time goes on.

The horror is two people getting shot in a school, the unreal nightmare is the changing numbers as the facts come out.

---------------

I just saw a murder suicide story that happened at the Excalibur Hotel/Casino.

We can't go shopping, to school or gambling w/o being subjected to possibly being killed?

I am going to stay at home, with my guns.

I feel much safer there.

[Alysser]

RICHARD, I think the mental illness factor is always overlooked and is very important too.

I also have a problem with the way media does things when these tragedies occur. I never understood the "rating" system. It's like giving them glory or something. They freak people out for a few days, and what if in the mean time, someone else starts planning something with all the ideas they get from this one? Who is to say this kid wasn't watching the news when the Aurora CO shooting happened? Who is to say he didn't get any ideas from the media.

[chocolatepuppy]

Many argue that having a gun is to protect themselves, but would you really shoot an intruder, or someone who breaks the law out in the street? The police are there for protecting people and I suspect they are highly trained in when and where to use a gun - well, even some policemen have misjudged a situation, so why do you think you can judge better?

Again, I say, in my situation, what police? I shudder at the response time to my house if someone is coming in my back door in the middle of the night.
Five minutes *if* the city cops will come out here? The Sheriff, is he 10 or 20 minutes away at this time?

[RICHARD]

RICHARD, I think the mental illness factor is always overlooked and is very important too.

I also have a problem with the way media does things when these tragedies occur. I never understood the "rating" system. It's like giving them glory or something. They freak people out for a few days, and what if in the mean time, someone else starts planning something with all the ideas they get from this one? Who is to say this kid wasn't watching the news when the Aurora CO shooting happened? Who is to say he didn't get any ideas from the media.

Yes, I firmly believe that there is some idiot out there with the idea they have a 'better plan'.

---------------
Back in the day, I wanted to write for a newspaper. We toured the El Lay Times building and came across the 'morgue'

It was a collection of obituaries of famous people who hadn't died yet. They updated the stories and just had to fine tune the facts so that they could put it into the paper ASAP.

When I see the bumpers to the news programs and the ominous/sad/sinister music, I laugh.

Not at the story, but at the people who think up the catchy phrasing and pick the music.


What do you do for a living?

I write the tunes for FOX/MSNBC/CNN, when something bad happens.....

[RICHARD]

Again, I say, in my situation, what police? I shudder at the response time to my house if someone is coming in my back door in the middle of the night.
Five minutes *if* the city cops will come out here? The Sheriff, is he 10 or 20 minutes away at this time?

I lived 8 blocks from the LAPD station and if I needed a cop, I had to wait 40-60 minutes?

Um......No.

I may not have that much time.

[chocolatepuppy]

I lived 8 blocks from the LAPD station and if I needed a cop, I had to wait 40-60 minutes?

Um......No.

I may not have that much time.

Exactly. You may have seconds to react if someone's on their way in, should I waste that dialing 911?

I might shoot myself? My dogs? Cats? I'll take my chances.

[RICHARD]

Exactly. You may have seconds to react if someone's on their way in, should I waste that dialing 911?

I might shoot myself? My dogs? Cats? I'll take my chances.

I once was listening to a guy talk about a shotgun for home protection.

I had this vision of shooting one inside of a house and just how much damage it would do.

That's not really protecting your home?:o:eek:

----------------------

Just flipped the channel to MSNBC and heard a woman talk about her daughter and signing a press release at the beginning of the semester, so, if the child was approached by the media after any event, she would be allowed to talk to the press.

-------------------

I hate cars because people get drunk and kill with them
I hate money, because it causes gambling.
I hate cameras because they can be used to record porn.
I hate porn because it makes people go to strip bars and throw money at women.
I hate cars because the are used to drive to the strip bars.
I hate money because that buys the gas, to get to the strip bars.

[Randi]

I know they can get a gun somehow, but the less of them there are, the more difficult it would be. I also know that if these morons didn't have a gun, they'd probably use a knife, but how many people can you kill with a knife before someone stops you?

I hope for everyone's sake that the weapon laws will be tightened.

[phesina]

A person in a small town in Connecticut has a Glock, a Sig-Sauer, and an AR-15 type rifle. This is heavy duty stuff. Jack Reacher would not have such an arsenal. But we still have the right to have them on our dressers, don't we? More likely to shoot a family member or companion animal in any case.

A kindergarten teacher in an idyllic small New England town.. Instead, the family member shot her.

[chocolatepuppy]

I once was listening to a guy talk about a shotgun for home protection.

I had this vision of shooting one inside of a house and just how much damage it would do.

That's not really protecting your home?:o:eek:



My home? My home is insured and is a material thing. My furkids and myself are living beings. Do I want to die and have them die at a scumbag criminals hand in my own home? NO! If it comes down to me or a criminal, I prefer this criminal die than us! Actually, I prefer one shot and the criminal run, but whatever it takes.

[lizbud]

"Richard" is brimming with specious reasoning.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Agreed. When confronted with obvious truth about the gun culture in the good old USA, just change the subject.


ps. Thanks for sharing the article.

[lizbud]

Banning ALL guns will likely never happen in the USA. Banning the sale of all automatic, semi auto guns could happen.
What earthly reason could anyone have for owning a weapon whose purpose is to kill as many people/animals as possible
in the shortest amount of time? There was, for a short time, a ban on these kinds of guns & it was allowed to expire. Why?

[jackie]

Banning ALL guns will likely never happen in the USA. Banning the sale of all automatic, semi auto guns could happen.
What earthly reason could anyone have for owning a weapon whose purpose is to kill as many people/animals as possible
in the shortest amount of time? There was, for a short time, a ban on these kinds of guns & it was allowed to expire. Why?

I agree one hundred percent.

Someone will pop back up and restate that the Newtown killer used handguns, not semi automatics, but I think the American right to bear arms is outdated.

"guns don't kill people, people kill people". That may be true, but they sure make it easy to kill many people in a short amount of time.

Even if they banned the sale of all guns now, there are so many in circulation, it probably wouldn't make a dent. :(

[RICHARD]

Guns do not kill people, bullet do, unless you are pistol shipped to death?

----------------

I can go to Dick's sporting goods, buy a semi automatic rifle, come home, go on the web and within a few days, have the parts to convert it to an full rock and roll gun.

I just typed in a phrase on the websearcher thing and came back with 525,000 hits for ways to fix my gun to shoot like an MG.

I could also buy 15-30 round mags or a kit to convert a gun to use those mags.

The conversion kits are legal.


------------------
So,
We limit large mags and assault rifles.

You get an idiot that will show up with a 9mm pistol, that shoots 13 rounds, he pulls out another 13 shooter, then pull out a ANOTHER pistol - even a small .32 cal gun has 8 rounds.

That's 32 rounds w/o having to reload.

So while I am trying to become one with the tile floor, he's going to have time to reload at least one gun, shoot another 13 rounds.

There's 45 shots, not counting the rifle he may have been carrying and depending on how many shots that gun is capable of?

An idiot with the drive, hatred and means, can carry a small lethal arsenal.

-------------------------------

Who was the joker that shot up the island overseas?

Or did we forget that incident.

[Lady's Human]

Actually, Richard, anyone selling parts to convert a semi-auto to FA to unlicensed people is breaking a few federal laws.

In addition, to meet Federal requirements for sale, a semi atuo is supposed to require more than 8 hours of work by a competent (read: Skilled) gunsmith to convert to full auto, and no competent gunsmith is going to touch any work of the sort.

[Lady's Human]

A person in a small town in Connecticut has a Glock, a Sig-Sauer, and an AR-15 type rifle. This is heavy duty stuff. Jack Reacher would not have such an arsenal. But we still have the right to have them on our dressers, don't we? More likely to shoot a family member or companion animal in any case.

Heavy duty stuff? Really?

Please, that's not even serious target shooter levels of stuff.

Nowhere near avid collector stuff.

Media, media, media.......

You're living proof of how easy it is to sensationalize and "put the skeer" in people.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I REALLY hope these are facetious comments, otherwise there is just no hope.

This is just someone who really really loves his guns trying to put the "skeer" in you while he sneers at you.

I fear there is no hope. We, as a nation, will just allow the insanity to go on. Too, too many people are more in love with guns than they are with their neighbor.

[Karen]

This is just someone who really really loves his guns trying to put the "skeer" in you while he sneers at you.

I fear there is no hope. We, as a nation, will just allow the insanity to go on. Too, too many people are more in love with guns than they are with their neighbor.

You are wrong. His point was those guns were not as "dangerous" in terms of what serious gun collectors handle as the media has made them appear. And gun can be deadly. I have handled far more "deadly" guns than those myself.

I know plenty of gun owners who still have plenty of love for their neighbors, and respect for them. And who would, if it came down to it, be as willing to defend their neighbor or a stranger as themselves if the situation called for it.

Gun ownership has nothing to do with one's love of his or her neighbor, or one's desire to make the world a better place for his or her children.

[Lady's Human]

I REALLY hope these are facetious comments, otherwise there is just no hope.

They aren't facetious at all.

I have a strange feeling that your definition of hope and mine are two radically different things. There is always hope. However, hope is not a method, and you cannot legislate evil out of existence.

[Edwina's Secretary]

You are wrong. His point was those guns were not as "dangerous" in terms of what serious gun collectors handle as the media has made them appear. And gun can be deadly. I have handled far more "deadly" guns than those myself.

I know plenty of gun owners who still have plenty of love for their neighbors, and respect for them. And who would, if it came down to it, be as willing to defend their neighbor or a stranger as themselves if the situation called for it.

Gun ownership has nothing to do with one's love of his or her neighbor, or one's desire to make the world a better place for his or her children.

You are entitled to your opinion Karen. I am entitled to mine. I don't want to live next door or even down the street from someone who has guns. (Yes, I suppose I do. But not that I know of.)

Would those gun owners give up their guns if it could bring back those 20 children? Of course they will say..."it won't bring them back so what is the point?" I still ask - would they give up their guns if it would bring back those children?

And why does it take three guns - or 17 guns as I posted about earlier to make a house safe. What kind of attack are they repelling and how does someone shot three guns at a time?

But logic is never the point is it?

[Lady's Human]

But logic is never the point is it?

No, logic isn't the point of this discussion in any way, shape or form.

Otherwise people wouldn't be so scared of inanimate objects, would have far more fear of evil, and would rarely drive, as you are logically far, far more prone to die while driving than being shot.

[Lady's Human]

In addition,

I don't "love" guns or any other inanimate object.

I love my family, both fuzzbutts and humans, and God.

I see firearms as useful tools and a hobby, and this discussion as further evidence of the erosion of the rights of a free society.

[RICHARD]

Actually, Richard, anyone selling parts to convert a semi-auto to FA to unlicensed people is breaking a few federal laws.

In addition, to meet Federal requirements for sale, a semi atuo is supposed to require more than 8 hours of work by a competent (read: Skilled) gunsmith to convert to full auto, and no competent gunsmith is going to touch any work of the sort.

Thanks for the clarification.

I grew up in the barrio, where full auto meant two things, A machine gun or a station wagon filled with my people.
I was offered full auto guns, to purchase, a few times.

No one offered receipts, asked questions or asked for ID.

So, I am a little stupid when it comes to stuff like that?;)



---------------------------

Another miracle of 'mexican know how' was a zip gun.


You could take a car antenna, rubber bands and a little time to make a very lethal .22 caliber one-shot, gun.

Lethal because the bullet tumbles right after it's shot, just like an AR.

I also saw a machined ZG, made from billet steel, that was absolutely a work of art.

[Alysser]

This is just someone who really really loves his guns trying to put the "skeer" in you while he sneers at you.

I fear there is no hope. We, as a nation, will just allow the insanity to go on. Too, too many people are more in love with guns than they are with their neighbor.

This has got to me one of the MOST ridiculous things I have ever read. No one I know of who is against gun control is "more in love with gun then they are their neighbor" and I am sure that applies to very very little gun owners.. Let's stop making rash generalizations about gun owners simply because you fear the object.

As long as you keep trying to harp on "Gun Control", this will happen, until you start looking at the bigger picture and the REAL issue here, the person behind the gun, and not the inanimate object that has no control over itself.

[blue]

Heavy duty stuff? Really?

Please, that's not even serious target shooter levels of stuff.

Nowhere near avid collector stuff.

Media, media, media.......

You're living proof of how easy it is to sensationalize and "put the skeer" in people.


I REALLY hope these are facetious comments, otherwise there is just no hope.

He is right, those are very mild firearms. No where near serious or heavy duty stuff. My Glock .40 and two semi auto AKs arent in the heavy duty league.


I don't want to live next door or even down the street from someone who has guns.

I own 3 firearms, 3 of your neighbors at least own 1 firearm. You should actually sleep better knowing that they do. The average Alaskan owns 7 times the firearms I do. I know a number of people who have walk in gun safes. Rember that if you ever visit Alaska again, that and we dont regulate concealed carry, any legal firearm owner can carry without restriction.

[cassiesmom]

If the guns were owned by the mom then you wonder how mentally stable she was? Did she drive her son to do this horrific crime? You just don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

I heard on the news that she had the guns because she was a gun collector and shooting enthusiast, but also because she feared changes in the economy. But why did she need an assault rifle? That just does not make sense to me. I also heard that the children who were killed were 6 and 7 years old. How tragic.

There were also 10 shootings in Chicago overnight. We have issues with gun rights in our own back yard.

[Lady's Human]

A kindergarten teacher in an idyllic small New England town.. Instead, the family member shot her.

Scratch the surface of that small, idyllic New England town and you'll find the same puss and corruption as anywhere else, and in some cases worse.

[Edwina's Secretary]

This has got to me one of the MOST ridiculous things I have ever read. No one I know of who is against gun control is "more in love with gun then they are their neighbor" and I am sure that applies to very very little gun owners.. Let's stop making rash generalizations about gun owners simply because you fear the object.

As long as you keep trying to harp on "Gun Control", this will happen, until you start looking at the bigger picture and the REAL issue here, the person behind the gun, and not the inanimate object that has no control over itself.

Wha..wha...what??? Please speak English???

[Edwina's Secretary]

In addition,

I don't "love" guns or any other inanimate object.

I love my family, both fuzzbutts and humans, and God.

I see firearms as useful tools and a hobby, and this discussion as further evidence of the erosion of the rights of a free society.

And I see those "inanimate objects" as instruments of death. Tools..yeah...hobby...O K... erosion of a free society...as it was defined...in 1791..or whatever....

[Edwina's Secretary]

This has got to me one of the MOST ridiculous things I have ever read. No one I know of who is against gun control is "more in love with gun then they are their neighbor" and I am sure that applies to very very little gun owners.. Let's stop making rash generalizations about gun owners simply because you fear the object.

As long as you keep trying to harp on "Gun Control", this will happen, until you start looking at the bigger picture and the REAL issue here, the person behind the gun, and not the inanimate object that has no control over itself.

No rational discussion... just insult those who think diffferently than you do..right???

[Lady's Human]

No rational discussion... just insult those who think diffferently than you do..right???

I don't think Alysser was insulting anyone.

It was merely a statement of opinion, and further from insulting anyone than your constantly derisive comments about those who disagree with you.

[Alysser]

No rational discussion... just insult those who think diffferently than you do..right???

I don't understand where I insulted you in the least.

Making generalizations that people love an inanimate object over PEOPLE isn't insulting?? Like, come on really??

[Randi]

I wonder how many of the victims (the children) parents have guns in their houses and whether they want to keep them or not. I would imagine that their views might change, but who knows. It also seems to me that most of the people in favor of guns are the God loving people and the Republicans in the US.

[Lady's Human]

You know this for a fact, do you? I live in a small village - think I better clean my assault rifle. The gun lovers rhetoric is putting the skeer in me.

Just FYI, I'm in the military & know a bit about the subject of weaponry. I would never keep any in my home.


Yes, I know that for a fact. I grew up in a small New England town. Just as much crime and scandal as anywhere else, just looked prettier in photos.

I'm retired from the military. Qualified expert on damned near everything in the US small arms inventory up to a ma deuce, and spent plenty of time as a weapons range safety NCO, Observer Controller, and a slew of other training positions. Your point?

[catlady1945]

Yes, I know that for a fact. I grew up in a small New England town. Just as much crime and scandal as anywhere else, just looked prettier in photos.

I'm retired from the military. Qualified expert on damned near everything in the US small arms inventory up to a ma deuce, and spent plenty of time as a weapons range safety NCO, Observer Controller, and a slew of other training positions. Your point?

My point (and I do have one) is that amateurs with guns are scary and dangerous.

[Lady's Human]

Incompetent professionals with weapons are more so.

Back to the point, the problem isn't the weapon, it's the person. If you're not competent to the point of being comfortable around weapons, perhaps you need more training, especially if you're in the military. The last thing I want in a unit is someone who's uncomfortable around the tools of the trade.

[sasvermont]

I don't know why parents let their guns be available to kids! I have friends who hunt and their hunting rifles/guns are LOCKED at all times. They unlock the case when they take them and their older children, hunting.

I would never own a gun. It is my choice. I think folks should have a choice.

Why this latest killer's Mom had such assault weapons in her "collection" makes no sense to me. It came back to bite her in the butt, if you will. I wonder if she could have lived with herself, had her son not killed her first.

Responsible gun owners need to be just that. Responsible. Mentally ill people should not have guns/knives etc. Maybe we should lock down the mentally ill?

I think every town, has a collection of people ready to POP. I know my town does. The one I can think of in my town, is mentally unstable. It is just a matter of time until something awful happens. Just last week, this person took a drug over-dose then set his Mom's house on fire, in three places in the house. He survived, taken to the hospital and the house was damaged lots. What do you think his next step will be? His Mom is the sweetest person in the world. He has been through and is in counselling. I don't know if he is medicated. He is a time bomb. I hope they keep him in a mental hospital for a long time. Sad, but true. He is mentally ill. His DAD is mentally ill and has been for years. But he has rights....

Shall I go out and buy a gun to protect myself?

[chocolatepuppy]

I don't think Alysser was insulting anyone.

It was merely a statement of opinion, and further from insulting anyone than your constantly derisive comments about those who disagree with you.
Agree.

I wonder how many of the victims (the children) parents have guns in their houses and whether they want to keep them or not. I would imagine that their views might change, but who knows. It also seems to me that most of the people in favor of guns are the God loving people and the Republicans in the US.

Some parents may go out and buy a gun to try and save their remaining children from a wacko.

I love the Lord, but don't want to meet him anytime soon.

[RICHARD]

I do like guns - not love them.

I like to look at photos of them and if I get to see one in person? Good, Shoot one? Better.

---------

I don't hunt, but I love to target shoot. I find that the precision and challenge of TS to be a way to forget what bugs me.

When I cannot shoot live ammo? I have an Air Soft gun, a .22 cal pellet gun and a Nerf gun that use around the house.

I used to be able to use the suction tipped Nerf darts on my old TV, not so much on the big screen.

------

I don't 'pack/carry' and I don't fear anyone who does. To me a gun, any gun is a precision tool.

To me? It's not for shooting people or animals.

And while shooting a gun, and hitting what you aim at, isn't the necessary skill needed these days?

It's good to know that I can do it, with reasonable results, and I don't fear the idea, mechanics or the presence of a firearm.


-------------

Oh, BTW?

If you ever have been around a person with a GSW? You do have a heightened appreciation for gun safety and the rules for using and storing guns...

[Catty1]

Totally out of this context, I was told by a friend years ago that if I (for example) was to carry any type of weapon to protect myself I had better be sure I knew how to use it.

RICHARD:
And while shooting a gun, and hitting what you aim at, isn't the necessary skill needed these days?

I can totally understand people wanting to get a gun to protect their family - but training in its use and SAFE STORAGE of same need to be part of the equation.

[Alysser]

It also seems to me that most of the people in favor of guns are the God loving people and the Republicans in the US.

This is true to a certain extent.

Personally, I am as close to the middle as you can possibly get and I am not religious in the least.

[Edwina's Secretary]

This has got to me one of the MOST ridiculous things I have ever read. No one I know of who is against gun control is "more in love with gun then they are their neighbor" and I am sure that applies to very very little gun owners.. Let's stop making rash generalizations about gun owners simply because you fear the object.

As long as you keep trying to harp on "Gun Control", this will happen, until you start looking at the bigger picture and the REAL issue here, the person behind the gun, and not the inanimate object that has no control over itself.

You certainly topped me for ridiculous!

I do not fear the object. I fear the people who feel the need for the object. And that is the BIGGER picture.

However, we do both agree. It is the person behind the gun.

And in the joyous season???? A shooting at a mall very neat to me last night.

[lizbud]

From a CNN report.


The gun control debate

The deadly shooting that shattered this quiet New England town also reignited the ongoing debate about gun laws in America.

Adam Lanza was found dead next to three guns -- a semiautomatic .223-caliber rifle made by Bushmaster and two handguns made by Glock and Sig Sauer, a law enforcement source told CNN. All belonged to his mother.

Carver, who performed autopsies on seven of the victims, said the wounds he knew about were caused by a "long weapon" and that the rifle was the primary weapon used.

Nancy Lanza was a gun collector and recently showed off a newly bought rifle to fellow Newtown resident Dan Holmes, who owns a landscaping business in the town.

Besides the three weapons found at the school, the shooter also had access to at least three more guns, a law enforcement source said.

[pomtzu]

The following is JMHO - for what it's worth.....:rolleyes:


Every time there is another horrific tragedy involving guns, this thread rears it's ugly head and the debate/discussion/argument starts all over again. And what does it accomplish???? - nothing as far as I can tell. There are pros and cons to both sides of the gun ownership issue, and nobody is right or wrong. Everybody has an opinion in the matter and I don't believe that they should be chastised for stating it. Perhaps the energy wasted here would be better spent making your views known to your state representatives, so that perhaps they can take it to the national level. I personally do believe that this latest massacre in CT has given a lot of officials who seemed indifferent to the issues, a big wake-up call, simply because it took so many very young and innocent lives. The loss of any life in a scenario such as this is senseless and cruel - but for little children only 6 and 7 years old it is beyond senseless and cruel. It was barbaric and unthinkable - yet it happened.

It's time to think of and do something constructive, rather than continuing to be destructive and critical of others who don't necessarily agree with you.


And like I said: JMHO

[lizbud]

There is no reason for this discussion to turn into personal attacks on each other. Everyone has their own thoughts & opinions.
It also is not the place to put someone down because they may not know the correct name for a particular weapon. We are not
all military ordinance experts, so lets not quibble over technical terms of a weapon. It's hurtful & doesn't led to any good end.

The more I hear and read about this terrible event, the more I believe this is more than a gun issue, it is also a mental health issue.
The shooter was obviously mentally suspect & should probably should have been in treatment somewhere.

[cassiesmom]

I live in an upper middle class midwestern town. We probably have as much scandal as anywhere else, but like LH said, we make it look pretty good in photos. And we have the means and resources to hide it pretty well.

Connecticut has some of the most stringent gun legislation in the nation and yet a bunch of guns were found and used by a young man who should never have had access to them. Why did the mother not get rid of her entire collection when she knew that something wasn't right with her teenage son?

I know for a fact that there is less crime here than in other places. We had our own unspeakable tragedy almost 14 months ago when a 9th grader was stabbed to death, in her home, by an intruder because she interrupted a robbery. Put the name Kelli O'Laughlin into any search engine and there you will find the story.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That's where we are right now with better gun rights. These shootings happen over and over. We mourn, we grieve, we lower flags to half staff, and we say that something has to change. I'm with Pomtzu - the time has come to do something constructive.

"Give us grace so we'll be safe." -- The Prayer, Yolanda Adams

[Lady's Human]

No, logical extension of your statements, combined with the absolutely juvenile and hyperbolic tone of your earlier posts. If you are comfortable with the tools of the trade, why then are you scared to keep them in your house? No difference between your bedroom and a barracks room in reality.

Pom, I agree with your suggestion that people write their legislature, and have not commented on this thread in some time. However, we have a few posters here who evidently feel the need to constantly post here every time someone stubs their toe with a firearm, and the constant derision of their posts gets increasingly old.

[Lady's Human]

It also is not the place to put someone down because they may not know the correct name for a particular weapon. We are not
all military ordinance experts, so lets not quibble over technical terms of a weapon. It's hurtful & doesn't led to any good end.
.

The comments about how terrible and evil"assault weapons" and "automatic weapons" are straight out of the media's agitprop playbook, and have been corrected in here repeatedly. If people read and comprehended the comments that have been made multiple times rather than making knee jerk responses to posts, then the correct nomenclature would easily be seen. In addition, the comment that "that's some serious hardware" was made by someone who claims to be military, in which case they should bloody well know that that "serious hardware" isn't that "serious" at all.

There are a lot of pointless, hurtful comment in the thread, and most of them are coming from the people who constantly bump this thread for whatever reason to show how turrible them big bad guns iz.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Blame the media! Apparently some people think we all are too stupid to have a thought that is not put in our heads (empty as they are!) by the evil media!

I post in the thread often. I am not ashamed of that. I also make my opinion known to my government representatives.

Somehow I think shooting your son to death, a three year old shooting his father to death - little bit more than a toe stub. Now the guy who shot himself in the winky...

I'm thinking
absolutely juvenile and hyperbolic tone might be defined as this
turrible them big bad guns iz

[Lady's Human]

Blame the media! Apparently some people think we all are too stupid to have a thought that is not put in our heads (empty as they are!) by the evil media!


Speaking of hyperbole, now calling something straight out of an agitprop playbook is blaming the media? I'm not stating that no one can have these thoughts on their own, however, it's........amusing..........to say the least how well interlocked the statements about certain topics are.

If you're admitting you're head is empty, I'm not going to argue.

[RICHARD]

Speaking of hyperbole, now calling something straight out of an agitprop playbook is blaming the media? I'm not stating that no one can have these thoughts on their own, however, it's........amusing..........to say the least how well interlocked the statements about certain topics are.

If you're admitting you're head is empty, I'm not going to argue.

I heard one puppethead on MSNBC state that something had to be done about 'large capacity ammo'.

I laughed.

-------------------
And in the spirit of the season?

"You'll put your eye out with that thing....."

[Lady's Human]

It should be "your head is empty" - - - - you're head is empty = you are head is empty. Calm down!

Calm down?

A typo is a sign of agitation? Damn, the interwebz (facebook in particular) must be full of very irate individuals, and one of my former commanding officers must have been a raving lunatic! LOL

[RICHARD]

The following is JMHO - for what it's worth.....:rolleyes:


Every time there is another horrific tragedy involving guns, this thread rears it's ugly head and the debate/discussion/argument starts all over again. And what does it accomplish???? - nothing as far as I can tell. There are pros and cons to both sides of the gun ownership issue, and nobody is right or wrong. Everybody has an opinion in the matter and I don't believe that they should be chastised for stating it. Perhaps the energy wasted here would be better spent making your views known to your state representatives, so that perhaps they can take it to the national level. I personally do believe that this latest massacre in CT has given a lot of officials who seemed indifferent to the issues, a big wake-up call, simply because it took so many very young and innocent lives. The loss of any life in a scenario such as this is senseless and cruel - but for little children only 6 and 7 years old it is beyond senseless and cruel. It was barbaric and unthinkable - yet it happened.

It's time to think of and do something constructive, rather than continuing to be destructive and critical of others who don't necessarily agree with you.


And like I said: JMHO



First you have to find out who is taking cash from the gun lobbyists.

NOTHING will ever be done about the current gun laws, all the politicians pay lip service to us to make us believe they are concerned.

Dianne Feinstein is one of the effing puppetheads that is anti gun, while all the while traveling with armed security guards and packs heat herself.


She's an opportunist, a snake oil-salesman and a true knee jerk politician, check out her grandstanding re Conneticut

[sparks19]

Since I can't find a thread dedicated to the tragedy here I figure I'll share it here

I just thought this was beautiful and touching. Warning: Religious content. I thought it was a lovely way to picture these babies instead of the horrifying last moments of their lives



Twas' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38 when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven's gate. Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air. They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there. They were filled with such joy; they didn't know what to say. They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day. “where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse. “This is heaven" declared a small boy. "We’re spending Christmas at God's house”. When what to their wondering eyes did appear, but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near. He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same. Then He opened His arms and He called them by name. And in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bring those children all flew into the arms of their King and as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace, one small girl turned and looked at Jesus' face. And as if He could read all the questions she had He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of mom and dad. “then He looked down on earth, the world far below He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe, then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand, “Let My power and presence re-enter this land! “May this country be delivered from the hands of fools” “I’m taking back my nation. I'm taking back my schools! “Then He and the children stood up without a sound. “Come now my children let me show you around. “Excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran. All displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can. And I heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight, “in the midst of this darkness,” I AM STILL THE LIGHT."

I also think this blog gets to the root of the issue of violence in this country. Sorry if it's been posted already

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html

Treat the illness instead of a side effect.

One last thing, how can we sit and talk about loving our neighbors when we are all exchanging such vitriol and disdain towards each other :( We should be embracing each other instead of arguing. I know this post may be met with opposition but I just don't have it in me at this time to fight.

[RICHARD]

From a CNN report.


The gun control debate

The deadly shooting that shattered this quiet New England town also reignited the ongoing debate about gun laws in America.

Adam Lanza was found dead next to three guns -- a semiautomatic .223-caliber rifle made by Bushmaster and two handguns made by Glock and Sig Sauer, a law enforcement source told CNN. All belonged to his mother.

Carver, who performed autopsies on seven of the victims, said the wounds he knew about were caused by a "long weapon" and that the rifle was the primary weapon used.

Nancy Lanza was a gun collector and recently showed off a newly bought rifle to fellow Newtown resident Dan Holmes, who owns a landscaping business in the town.

Besides the three weapons found at the school, the shooter also had access to at least three more guns, a law enforcement source said.

Thanks.......

Again, I commented on what the news reports stated and again, in their haste to beat the competition, they leave out a few salient details and lead me down the wrong road?;)

[pomtzu]

Thank you Tanya - not only for posting that interpretation of the beginning of a new life for those children and the message that it sent - but for choosing to not be confrontational.

[Lady's Human]

One last thing, how can we sit and talk about loving our neighbors when we are all exchanging such vitriol and disdain towards each other :( We should be embracing each other instead of arguing. I know this post may be met with opposition but I just don't have it in me at this time to fight.

The continuation of this thread by certain individuals is all about vitriol, condescension and self righteousness.

I have asked in the past that certain parties refrain from using tragedies to push a political agenda, and have been told in no uncertain terms to go to hell.

[RICHARD]

The continuation of this thread by certain individuals is all about vitriol, condescension and self righteousness.

I have asked in the past that certain parties refrain from using tragedies to push a political agenda, and have been told in no uncertain terms to go to hell.

I thought I was going to have to end up spending enternity by myself.:D

[lizbud]

The comments about how terrible and evil"assault weapons" and "automatic weapons" are straight out of the media's agitprop playbook, and have been corrected in here repeatedly.

If people read and comprehended the comments that have been made multiple times rather than making knee jerk responses to posts, then the correct nomenclature would easily be seen.


Corrected by who? You?? How do you know where they get their ideas? Why do you feel responsible to correct others ideas and opinions. Why not just express your opinion
and let everyone else express theirs?????

[Lady's Human]

Corrected by who? You??

Corrected by several. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Calling an apple an orange doesn't make it one.

I challenge people's opinions, as do many here. Pardon me for not giving you the echo chamber you so desperately desire.

[Lady's Human]

One of the amusing conundrums posed by modern tech is going to rear its ugly head shortly and directly relates to gun control......

What are the chicken littles in the tech world going to do when they realize that you can buy (coming shortly to a Staples near you) an HP 3d printer, load up an autocad 3d file, and print yourself the frame for a glock?

Are you going to ban 3d printers?

[Catty1]

They got this guy in time...

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/indiana-man-with-47-guns-arrested-after-school-threat-1.1081439

[lizbud]

I challenge people's opinions, as do many here. Pardon me for not giving you the echo chamber you so desperately desire.


The only desperate desire I have is to watch American Funniest Home Videos. :D:D It's Christmas themed.

[Steve Arnold]

Less than an hour ago I was reading the stories of the children murdered in this incident and crying with each one. As a retired elementary teacher, every new face of one of these victims left me more wrung out, thinking of all the hundreds of children I knew through my 32 years in the classroom. Then I make the mistake of opening up this thread and reading it. I don't have the stomach for the tone of this discussion. I'm sorry I stuck my head in to check it out; I won't be looking at this thread again.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Speaking of hyperbole, now calling something straight out of an agitprop playbook is blaming the media? I'm not stating that no one can have these thoughts on their own, however, it's........amusing..........to say the least how well interlocked the statements about certain topics are.

If you're admitting you're head is empty, I'm not going to argue.

Opps! You missed a word!
the media's agitprop playbook

I too have asked repeatedly that people not use tragedies to push political agendas....but you just keep doing it.

[Lady's Human]

Opps! You missed a word!

I too have asked repeatedly that people not use tragedies to push political agendas....but you just keep doing it.

You have trolled the internet for most of the time this discussion has been allowed, posting incident after incident to stir the pot and fuel your ego and your crusade. There have been many tragic accidents and intentional incidents involving motor vehicles, but they don't involve your personal bugbear, so you don't post about those. Instead you consistently use tragedies and use the deaths of others to stroke your own ego.

You haven't asked anything of the sort, and get madder than a wet hen when the discussion turns against you, as shown by your constant derisive comments and slams directed at those who disagree with you.

By the by, leeches are very much a part of modern medicine, so nice try, but no cigar.

[sasvermont]

Such nasty comments. I will not visit this place for a long time. Shame on you all.

[RICHARD]

55548

[phesina]

Thank you, Richard!

[Miss Z]

Regarding the idea of 'using tragedies to push political agendas': I understand that the Republican/Democrat divide can run very deep on this forum. I would hope that those on either side of the political spectrum would not dust off their own stance on gun laws and then apply it to this tragedy, but rather acknowledge the tragedy, and all that it entails, and apply THAT to their stance on gun laws. What's the point of politics if it's unadaptable? What drives politics if not turmoil and outcry?

If parties and their supporters were to put age-old sentiment above what's happening here-and-now, then there'd be no point to any of them. I'd like to see opposing parties (in the UK too) work together a little more in times like this and set out clear goals for tackling crime, instead of using every tragedy to bicker about everything hypothetical and trivial, and thus achieve nothing.

[Puckstop31]

I can only begin to imagine what this father must feel like. But this man is my new hero. A story I am certain will not make the "usual" media outlets. (Nothing editorial here, links to the actual statements.)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/grieving-father-memorializes-6-year-old-daughter-and-has-kind-words-for-ct-school-killers-family/

The light will always push away the dark.

[pomtzu]

I can only begin to imagine what this father must feel like. But this man is my new hero. A story I am certain will not make the "usual" media outlets. (Nothing editorial here, links to the actual statements.)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/grieving-father-memorializes-6-year-old-daughter-and-has-kind-words-for-ct-school-killers-family/

The light will always push away the dark.

I saw this interview live on Saturday, and I had a difficult time holding back the tears. What a strong, amazing, compassionate and forgiving man. He's an inspiration to all.

[Lady's Human]

Regarding the idea of 'using tragedies to push political agendas': I understand that the Republican/Democrat divide can run very deep on this forum. I would hope that those on either side of the political spectrum would not dust off their own stance on gun laws and then apply it to this tragedy, but rather acknowledge the tragedy, and all that it entails, and apply THAT to their stance on gun laws. What's the point of politics if it's unadaptable? What drives politics if not turmoil and outcry?

If parties and their supporters were to put age-old sentiment above what's happening here-and-now, then there'd be no point to any of them. I'd like to see opposing parties (in the UK too) work together a little more in times like this and set out clear goals for tackling crime, instead of using every tragedy to bicker about everything hypothetical and trivial, and thus achieve nothing.


The real issue here is that gun laws wouldn't have prevented this, but better mental health care might have. It's almost impossible for a parent to legally commit a child, which is purely wrong.

[Bonny]

The real issue here is that gun laws wouldn't have prevented this, but better mental health care might have. It's almost impossible for a parent to legally commit a child, which is purely wrong.

Just turned on Katie. Two very loving forgiving parents were just interviewed. The father said the young man who did the shooting had it rougher then him. What a brave father he is & so forgiving. He has made the world a better place already. God Bless Him & All The People Affected By This Tragedy

[Catty1]

LH - have a look at the "I Am Adam Lanza's Mother" posted in this forum. It addresses the mental health aspect and the Dems are saying they have to look at that in addition to any weapons controls.

[Lady's Human]

Don't need to, I have a coworker who has a stepchild with severe bipolar. Took the child to the ER after the child physically assaulted both parents, had the police meet them there to restrain the child, and the ER doc refused to commit the child because 20 minutes after the attacks the kid was "just fine, there's no reason to commit the darling"

[RICHARD]

So.......I can buy any gun I want now and if I should have some kind of mental problem later on....

:confused:

-----------------------------

i used to work with a reserve police officer for a small PD.


One day I walked around the corner and saw her with a bottle of nail polish, painting 'smilie faces' on the hollow point bullets. She packed a small .32 cal pistol as an off-duty piece and had unloaded the mag to do her thing.

I looked and did whatever I had to do, when I walked back she stopped me for my advice.

I kinda laughed then went to the bosses office to let her know.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Intelligent, effective and sensitble gun control is possible. Just ask the Australians!

Australian Gun Control in Response to a Mass Shooting (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/16/opinion/australia-gun-laws/index.html)

How very, very odd that advocating for sensible gun control is politizing while hysterically advocating against sensible gun control is not?

And no Miss Z - it is not about Republicans and Democrats. There are Dems who oppose gun control and Reps who do not. The accusation of "political agenda" is just a red herring that people throw in to try and put off the discussion of sensible gun control until the lastest tragedy is forgotten.

And mental health is only a piece of the equation. The man who shot a car full of teenagers because they were playing music in their car too loud for him would probably not count as mentally ill.

It is complicated and will not be solved until people can rationally discuss why as a nation we have such an outrageous number of deaths by gun.

[lizbud]

Just turned on Katie. Two very loving forgiving parents were just interviewed. The father said the young man who did the shooting had it rougher then him. What a brave father he is & so forgiving. He has made the world a better place already. God Bless Him & All The People Affected By This Tragedy


I saw the program. I kinda wanted to get away from all the talk about this whole tragedy & there it was again.:( Katie did a good job
with the right spirit to have a talk to some ofthe people involved in the shooting. The Father was unbelievably kind & forgiving in his
talking about the shooter. Did you notice the Mother's reactions. She broke my heart.:( I wanted to put my arms around her. She is still
very much in shock & dealing with her loss of her daughter, minute by minute as she said, rather than day by day. :(

[blue]

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=36ad8bc22d612b2ca8645f59506d611a&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pirate4x4.com%2Fforum%2Fgener al-chit-chat%2F1109422-facts-about-mass-shooting.html&v=1&libid=1355824770314&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2Farticles %2F335739%2Ffacts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pirate4x4.com%2Fforum%2Fgener al-chit-chat%2Findex3.html&title=Facts%20about%20mass%20shooting%20-%20Pirate4x4.Com%20%3A%204x4%20and%20Off-Road%20Forum&txt=The%20Facts%20about%20Mass%20Shootings%20-%20John%20Fund%20-%20National%20Review%20Online&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13558259111754

A few things you won’t hear about from the saturation coverage of the Newtown, Conn., school massacre:

Mass shootings are no more common than they have been in past decades, despite the impression given by the media.

In fact, the high point for mass killings in the U.S. was 1929, according to criminologist Grant Duwe of the Minnesota Department of Corrections.

Incidents of mass murder in the U.S. declined from 42 in the 1990s to 26 in the first decade of this century.

The chances of being killed in a mass shooting are about what they are for being struck by lightning.

Until the Newtown horror, the three worst K–12 school shootings ever had taken place in either Britain or Germany.

Almost all of the public-policy discussion about Newtown has focused on a debate over the need for more gun control. In reality, gun control in a country that already has 200 million privately owned firearms is likely to do little to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals. We would be better off debating two taboo subjects — the laws that make it difficult to control people with mental illness and the growing body of evidence that “gun-free” zones, which ban the carrying of firearms by law-abiding individuals, don’t work.


Advertisement

First, the mental-health issue. A lengthy study by Mother Jones magazine found that at least 38 of the 61 mass shooters in the past three decades “displayed signs of mental health problems prior to the killings.” New York Times columnist David Brooks and Cornell Law School professor William Jacobson have both suggested that the ACLU-inspired laws that make it so difficult to intervene and identify potentially dangerous people should be loosened. “Will we address mental-health and educational-privacy laws, which instill fear of legal liability for reporting potentially violent mentally ill people to law enforcement?” asks Professor Jacobson. “I doubt it.”


Gun-free zones have been the most popular response to previous mass killings. But many law-enforcement officials say they are actually counterproductive. “Guns are already banned in schools. That is why the shootings happen in schools. A school is a ‘helpless-victim zone,’” says Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff. “Preventing any adult at a school from having access to a firearm eliminates any chance the killer can be stopped in time to prevent a rampage,” Jim Kouri, the public-information officer of the National Association of Chiefs of Police, told me earlier this year at the time of the Aurora, Colo., Batman-movie shooting. Indeed, there have been many instances — from the high-school shooting by Luke Woodham in Mississippi, to the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, Colo. — where a killer has been stopped after someone got a gun from a parked car or elsewhere and confronted the shooter.

Economists John Lott and William Landes conducted a groundbreaking study in 1999, and found that a common theme of mass shootings is that they occur in places where guns are banned and killers know everyone will be unarmed, such as shopping malls and schools.

I spoke with Lott after the Newtown shooting, and he confirmed that nothing has changed to alter his findings. He noted that the Aurora shooter, who killed twelve people earlier this year, had a choice of seven movie theaters that were showing the Batman movie he was obsessed with. All were within a 20-minute drive of his home. The Cinemark Theater the killer ultimately chose wasn’t the closest, but it was the only one that posted signs saying it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals. All of the other theaters allowed the approximately 4 percent of Colorado adults who have a concealed-handgun permit to enter with their weapons.

“Disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks,” Lott told me. “A couple hundred people were in the Cinemark Theater when the killer arrived. There is an extremely high probability that one or more of them would have had a legal concealed handgun with him if they had not been banned.”

Lott offers a final damning statistic: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

There is no evidence that private holders of concealed-carry permits (which are either easy to obtain or not even required in more than 40 states) are any more irresponsible with firearms than the police. According to a 2005 to 2007 study by researchers at the University of Wisconsin and Bowling Green State University, police nationwide were convicted of firearms violations at least at a 0.002 percent annual rate. That’s about the same rate as holders of carry permits in the states with “shall issue” laws.

Despite all of this evidence, the magical thinking behind gun-free zones is unlikely to be questioned in the wake of the Newtown killings. Having such zones gives people a false sense of security, and woe to the politician or business owner who now suggests that a “gun-free zone” revert back to what critics would characterize as “a wild, wild West” status. Indeed, shortly after the Cinemark attack in Colorado, the manager of the nearby Northfield Theaters changed its policy and began banning concealed handguns.

In all of the fevered commentary over the Newtown killings, you will hear little discussion of the fact that we may be making our families and neighbors less safe by expanding the places where guns aren’t allowed. But that is precisely what we may be doing. Both criminals and the criminally insane have shown time and time again that those laws are the least of the problems they face as they carry out their evil deeds.

— John Fund is a national-affairs columnist for NRO.

[Louie and me]

I readily admit that I am very biased in this situation however, I am prepared to compromise. Let's say that individuals do have the right to bear arms providing the arms are the same ones (not replicas) manufactured and available at the time the 2nd amendment was written. It was ratified in 1791 I believe?

[Lady's Human]

I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I've hit the point of not caring one whit.

There are many, many things about Canadian law, the laws of the Euro zone, and other places that frankly I don't like.

Ya know what? I don't live there.

The laws don't affect me.

As such, I don't comment on the internal politics of other nations unless it has a direct, material effect on the United States.

Our Constitution has no material effect on Canada or the UK. (Miss Z, this isn't aimed at you in any way, shape or form). It's our peculiar document.

Leave its workings to the people it effects.

[Louie and me]

Point taken.

[lizbud]

I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I've hit the point of not caring one whit.

There are many, many things about Canadian law, the laws of the Euro zone, and other places that frankly I don't like.

Ya know what? I don't live there.

The laws don't affect me.

As such, I don't comment on the internal politics of other nations unless it has a direct, material effect on the United States.

Our Constitution has no material effect on Canada or the UK. (Miss Z, this isn't aimed at you in any way, shape or form). It's our peculiar document.

Leave its workings to the people it effects.



That was about the nicest SHUT UP I've ever heard. I for one appreciate views from "outsiders" on any subject. We are too close to the problem to see all
facets of this issue. It helps to get a view from anyone who can view this from another perspective.

[Catty1]

NRA goes unusually silent after Connecticut school shooting

The Associated Press
Published Tuesday, Dec. 18, 2012 7:18AM EST
Last Updated Tuesday, Dec. 18, 2012 8:16AM EST
WASHINGTON -- Where is the NRA?
The largest U.S. gun-rights organization -- typically outspoken, even after shooting deaths -- has gone all but silent since last week's rampage at a Connecticut school left 26 people dead, including 20 children.
The National Rifle Association's Facebook page has disappeared. The NRA has posted no tweets. It makes no mention of the shooting on its website. None of its leaders hit the media circuit Sunday to promote its support of the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment right to bear arms as the nation mourns the latest mass shooting victims and opens a new debate over gun restrictions. On Monday, the NRA offered no rebuttal as 300 anti-gun protesters marched to its Capitol Hill office.


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/nra-goes-unusually-silent-after-connecticut-school-shooting-1.1083429#ixzz2FQ5wojsM

[Catty1]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/note-michael-moore-2


I am truly beside myself this time. I tried to ring a warning bell about this a decade ago. The disease has only gotten worse.

But...you feel something different in the air across America tonight, don't you? People have had it and the outrage is loud and visible. I'm convinced the majority of Americans will now back strong gun control laws. And a better mental health care system. And perhaps a few are willing to look at the deeper issue of how this country officially sanctions violence as a means to an end.

The NRA, for the first time ever, has gone silent. They've taken their Facebook page down. They know they can't show up in Newtown next week and stick it to the people there, like they usually do after one of these mass killings. Let's face it, the gun lobby tonight is on the ropes. Now is the time to act. We can't let this sad moment pass without a true response and a president willing to be a strong leader.

I'll send some more thoughts tomorrow, but for now I thought I'd share with you what I've been sending out over Twitter this weekend. (If you're not on Twitter, please consider it. I know – not one more social media stop, please! But I've found it to be a quick and easy way to communicate with millions. Please give it a try. (http://twitter.com/mmflint) I send things out on it every day and I'd like you not to miss them.)

Here's my Twitter feed since the shootings on Friday:

[Bonny]

NRA goes unusually silent after Connecticut school shooting



Blue's article 375# has something in there an article by John Fund NRO National Rifle Organization? Not sure if affiliated with NRA or they are the same or NRO is a misprint?

[Lady's Human]

Blue's article 375# has something in there an article by John Fund NRO National Rifle Organization? Not sure if affiliated with NRA or they are the same or NRO is a misprint?

The article is from NRO, National Review Online.

[Catty1]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324407504578186523224794006.html


By ISABELLA STEGER (http://online.wsj.com/search/term.html?KEYWORDS=ISABELLA+STEGER&bylinesearch=true) Private-equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP is seeking to sell the company that makes a gun used in last week's shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.


Some time on Monday, Walmart.com removed a listing for the Bushmaster Patrolman's Carbine M4A3 Rifle; the move was first reported by the Nation magazine.

A Wal-Mart spokesman said the gun was never available for purchase online, only at some of the retailer's stores, but wouldn't comment on why the chain removed the website listing, which included customer reviews.
The rifle was still available Monday for purchase in Wal-Mart stores, including a supercenter in San Marcos, Texas, according to a clerk there.

Story with different details here: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/private-u-s-equity-firm-to-sell-stake-in-gunmaker-after-u-s-shooting-1.1083513

Yet people are rushing out to buy guns.

[RICHARD]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324407504578186523224794006.html





Story with different details here: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/private-u-s-equity-firm-to-sell-stake-in-gunmaker-after-u-s-shooting-1.1083513

Yet people are rushing out to buy guns.

Why?

Because like the media, the soul-less lawyers are circling under the surface ready to file any lawsuits.

I looked at my roomie and told her, "I can hardly wait for the lawsuits to start."

-----------------------

I can bet a million dollars that the school district will get sued for having a window so close to a locked door.
And moron could see that a window, next to a door that allows access via and electric lock and CCTV setup, really isn't 'safe'.

------------------

Why did is the NRA silent?

MY guess is if they had put out any kind of media statement, people would be fanned into self immolation.

Instead of having a calm discussion about gun ownership, people rush to judgement about people who own or like guns.

We are all tossed into the same box as some moron that shoots up a school/theater/mall.

I do like my guns, not to the point where I am going to have them pried from my cold dead fingers...

Where people find cigars and wine to be things to be appreciated?

Talk about mouth cancer and driving into a car of people after a few bottles of Merlot.

-------------

The people that are using this incident for airtime should be ashamed of themselves.....

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, Nancy Pelosi wants 'assault magazines' to be outlawed. My mom used to beat my arse with a rolled up monthly.

--------------

I guess people really don't understand that any gun used against another person is an 'assault weapon'.

People get lost in the wordage and definitions.

------------

Jesus wept.

[RICHARD]

I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I've hit the point of not caring one whit.

There are many, many things about Canadian law, the laws of the Euro zone, and other places that frankly I don't like.

Ya know what? I don't live there.

The laws don't affect me.

As such, I don't comment on the internal politics of other nations unless it has a direct, material effect on the United States.

Our Constitution has no material effect on Canada or the UK. (Miss Z, this isn't aimed at you in any way, shape or form). It's our peculiar document.

Leave its workings to the people it effects.

We did steal the music to "My Country, 'Tis of Thee" from the brits.......So, they may have a point?

[cassiesmom]

I read in the paper that school has resumed and the kids are being driven to a vacant school in a nearby town. It didn't say how long they would continue to use that building but I think it's good that they were able to get it ready quickly.

And sadly, that the first few funerals for the children have been scheduled. The local funeral home is going to be very busy between now and Christmas. :(

[Catty1]

N.R.A. STATEMENT:

The National Rifle Association of America is made up of four million moms and dads, sons and daughters – and we were shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the news of the horrific and senseless murders in Newtown.
Out of respect for the families, and as a matter of common decency, we have given time for mourning, prayer and a full investigation of the facts before commenting.
The N.R.A. is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.
The N.R.A. is planning to hold a major news conference in the Washington, D.C., area on Friday, December 21.
Details will be released to the media at the appropriate time.
www.nra.org

[Karen]

We did steal the music to "My Country, 'Tis of Thee" from the brits.......So, they may have a point?

It's not like that's our national anthem, and besides, that tune existed long before our country did, and t is in good musical tradition to borrow old tunes for new uses. The author of the tune is unknown, and it may originate in plainchant, but a 1619 attribution to John Bull is sometimes made. So no one is even sure who write the tune!

[Miss Z]

As such, I don't comment on the internal politics of other nations unless it has a direct, material effect on the United States.

Our Constitution has no material effect on Canada or the UK. (Miss Z, this isn't aimed at you in any way, shape or form). It's our peculiar document.

Leave its workings to the people it effects.

No worries, LH, and point well received. However, seeing as the decisions the USA makes usually affects the rest of the world in some shape or form, may I indulge you that our interests in you are probably more significant than your interests in us. :D

---

As for the music, you're welcome to 'My country, 'tis of thee' ... could you also please claim One Direction as your own whilst you're at it?

[Edwina's Secretary]

It's not like that's our national anthem, and besides, that tune existed long before our country did, and t is in good musical tradition to borrow old tunes for new uses. The author of the tune is unknown, and it may originate in plainchant, but a 1619 attribution to John Bull is sometimes made. So no one is even sure who write the tune!

The Star-Spangled Banner is set to the tune of a popular British song written by John Stafford Smith for the Anacreontic Society, a men's social club in London.

So despite the xenophobics/chauvinists - Fortress America has borrowed freely and interacted frequently!

[Lady's Human]

The Star-Spangled Banner is set to the tune of a popular British song written by John Stafford Smith for the Anacreontic Society, a men's social club in London.

So despite the xenophobics/chauvinists - Fortress America has borrowed freely and interacted frequently!


And exactly who is a xenophobe or a chauvinist?

[Asiel]

I've been following these threads since the first one and I find something so wrong with this whole picture.
What in h*ll is wrong with everyone? Fighting about gun control and it just gets more and more insulting and vicious at times. Who gives a shiat about gun control right now...for one thing gun control won't change anything...it's the idiot or sicko behind the gun and not the gun that kills.

Is everyone forgetting that 20 babies were killed and 8 adults? Why is no one even mentioning this sad fact and discussing this instead of gun control--right now the only thing I can think of are those poor little innocent kids , babies in my opinion, it brings tears to my eyes each time I hear more about it on the news.

The kid had Asperger's and the mom had ms...why did she have guns in the house in the first place is the only thing I can think of.She was home schooling him, did she ignore the signs...did he shoot his own mother to save her from her cruel disease? I would be more interested in knowing the cause and never mind gun control...any person wanting to kill can get a gun whether they are banned or not.

[Asiel]

Sparks-- I wanted to thank you for the lovely post, it made me feel so much better to read something so beautiful...

And momoffuzzyfaces I totally agree with you--this was my first thought also to prevent this from happening again.

[Karen]

Asiel, don't believe everything you hear in the media, last I knew it was just anecdotal reports that the kid has Aspergers, and I did not see anywhere mentioned that the mother had MS. Some reports say "autistic," others say "Aspergers" but none of it was confirmed or diagnosed, just different people's opinions. This thread is just for the gun control side of things, there is another thread "the I am Adam Lanza's Mother" thread that touches more on the mental health side.

[cassiesmom]

Charlotte Allen, what rock did you just crawl out from under? Are you flippin' kidding me?! *banging head on table* She contends in the National Review that the Newtown shooting could have been prevented if adult men had been present. If there had been any adult men there, what do you think we would have now, Ms. Allen? Dead adult men.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335996/newtown-answers-nro-symposium#

[pomtzu]

Charlotte Allen, what rock did you just crawl out from under? Are you flippin' kidding me?! *banging head on table* She contends in the National Review that the Newtown shooting could have been prevented if adult men had been present. If there had been any adult men there, what do you think we would have now, Ms. Allen? Dead adult men.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335996/newtown-answers-nro-symposium#

What a freakin idiot! Maybe we missed the memo that stated that men are bulletproof. :rolleyes: I'll have to remember to grab a man and put him between me and someone that might be shooting at me.

[Catty1]

U.S. gun laws show difficulty of stemming violent acts




Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-gun-laws-show-difficulty-of-stemming-violent-acts-1.1086472#ixzz2Fc0T5VhQ


One of the commenters raises a point about restricting the ammo available for sale. I agree with that, especially if guns purchased before a certain date can be kept.

Another commenter rants that Obama should work with the NRA. The NRA has stated willingness to help, and has yet to make their official public statement at a press conference tomorrow. I think this commenter needs to re-read a few news stories.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Charlotte Allen, what rock did you just crawl out from under? Are you flippin' kidding me?! *banging head on table* She contends in the National Review that the Newtown shooting could have been prevented if adult men had been present. If there had been any adult men there, what do you think we would have now, Ms. Allen? Dead adult men.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335996/newtown-answers-nro-symposium#

Apparently Ms. Allen is under the impression men can stop bullets with their.....??

Actually - there were at least two men in the school at the time. The head maintenance man and a male teacher.

Opps!

[blue]

U.S. gun laws show difficulty of stemming violent acts




Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-gun-laws-show-difficulty-of-stemming-violent-acts-1.1086472#ixzz2Fc0T5VhQ


One of the commenter's raises a point about restricting the ammo available for sale. I agree with that, especially if guns purchased before a certain date can be kept.

Ban certain types of ammo, more people will start reloading their own. If you ban the ammo my firearms shoot, I would start reloading my own.

[Lady's Human]

If you ban ammo sales you better follow that by banning sales of lead and lead alloys, smelting pots, swagers, molds, ad nauseum.

And regardless of how much you ban, ammunition will still be produced by private parties.

[RICHARD]

Wordage makes me laugh.

--------------

I love it when people on one side of an arguement gets blindsided by key phrases.

You have the anti gun yo-yos who think that a ban of 'assault style weapons' will cut down on murders.

You then have the NRA yo-yos that will go with the ban and get around it by changing the look of an ASW.

I believe assault rifle is just as deadly as a cheap arse .32. You may not be able to shoot one million bullets with one trigger pull, but what is the difference?

-----------

Ban ASWs, large capacity mags and what happens next?

Someone shows up with a bigger bag of guns...

-----------

Sheeple will go along with a ban on LCMs and that will be fine and dandy.

When I see the guy walk into the store/shop/theater with a rifle, I know things are going to get ugly - quickly. But I know that he has a low capacity magazine, so I have a chance to run.

But, what about the idiot with the messenger bag with a couple of pistols, extra mags and the idea that he's going to shoot up the place?

-------------

Whatever band-aid fixes there are to the gun buying laws, there still be some kid shooting his brother in mom and dad's bedroom, an innocent by-stander killed in a drive by or a cop gunned down at a traffic stop.

It's not the guns, its the people handling them.

[Edwina's Secretary]

So there you have it. Nothing will work shout the naysayers! So we should do....nothing.

Until of course, the next mass execution of innocents.

At which time we will again nash our teeth and moan and complain.

And do nothing. Because the naysayers say nothing will work.

How sad. I thought we are a nation that is creative and innovative and "get it done?"

Nope. We will continue to curse the darkness instead of lighting a candle. :(:(

[Asiel]

Asiel, don't believe everything you hear in the media, last I knew it was just anecdotal reports that the kid has Aspergers, and I did not see anywhere mentioned that the mother had MS. Some reports say "autistic," others say "Aspergers" but none of it was confirmed or diagnosed, just different people's opinions. This thread is just for the gun control side of things, there is another thread "the I am Adam Lanza's Mother" thread that touches more on the mental health side.

Karen I wasn't going by the media-- I know how they can exagerate stuff. The Asperger's has been diagnosed , and it's another form of autism, very different as matter of fact. All degrees of it. And yes, the mother did have ms...that was also confirmed and not in the media. Yes I did follow the media but it was mostly because of the kids and the sadness of the whole thing., there was just a mass shooting in a movie theatre and I did follow the story but it didn't really have the same impact---where kids are concerned ( and I considered these babies) then that throws me over the edge.
I wasn't pointing a finger at anyone in particular, probably just the ones that were bickering and arguing.
Like I said...momoffuzzyfaces seems to have come up with the sanest answer.

I did read the "I am Adam Lanza's Mother" -- it's sad that mental illness is never considered important enough to take it seriously.

[mrspunkysmom]

Like I said...momoffuzzyfaces seems to have come up with the sanest answer.

I did read the "I am Adam Lanza's Mother" -- it's sad that mental illness is never considered important enough to take it seriously.

I've just been listening and taking it all in. Don't even have a suggestion that's different. I do have a question about what MOFF said. I can't find that post.

I do know that mental illness is misunderstood and overlooked. And is hidden a lot of the times. My mother always said it was the quiet ones that were scariest. I've always taken that advice to heart.

I know this won't leave this forum: In the wake of the latest mass murders, a boy at our school was expelled. Apparently he was in possession (trunk of his car) of many types of weapons. We are rural and hunting and gun ownership is a cherished right. Was this bad judgment? I pointed out that even if he intended no harm, it was known that he had the weapons and someone that intended harm could have used them. Someone knew he had them and turned him in that Friday. Fortunately many people knew he had them so hopefully he won't know who turned him in.

I've related what was in the news, so I am violating no confidences.

That being said, even my ultra conservative brother thinks that the 2nd amendment is overrated. It wasn't intended for these times and that the average person has no need for an arsenal, let alone any assault weapons. I agree.

I do understand some people's fear of a gov't that has no respect for the people. I think they are a little bit crazy, but it is so easy for things to get tilted the wrong way. A well regulated militia? The armed forces? Or private militia's? Any way, I do think there needs to be some way of regulating access to weapons and types of weapons allowed. Some weapons just make it too easy to kill and you can't take it back at all after that.

After all, there are regulations and requirements to drive a car, perform in many occupations like medicine, education, construction, etc. Why do we not have betters checks and balances for guns?

[RICHARD]

I've just been listening and taking it all in. Don't even have a suggestion that's different. I do have a question about what MOFF said. I can't find that post.

I do know that mental illness is misunderstood and overlooked. And is hidden a lot of the times. My mother always said it was the quiet ones that were scariest. I've always taken that advice to heart.

I know this won't leave this forum: In the wake of the latest mass murders, a boy at our school was expelled. Apparently he was in possession (trunk of his car) of many types of weapons. We are rural and hunting and gun ownership is a cherished right. Was this bad judgment? I pointed out that even if he intended no harm, it was known that he had the weapons and someone that intended harm could have used them. Someone knew he had them and turned him in that Friday. Fortunately many people knew he had them so hopefully he won't know who turned him in. I've related what was in the news, so I am violating no confidences.

That being said, even my ultra conservative brother thinks that the 2nd amendment is overrated. It wasn't intended for these times and that the average person has no need for an arsenal, let alone any assault weapons. I agree.

I do understand some people's fear of a gov't that has no respect for the people. I think they are a little bit crazy, but it is so easy for things to get tilted the wrong way. A well regulated militia? The armed forces? Or private militia's? Any way, I do think there needs to be some way of regulating access to weapons and types of weapons allowed. Some weapons just make it too easy to kill and you can't take it back at all after that.

After all, there are regulations and requirements to drive a car, perform in many occupations like medicine, education, construction, etc. Why do we not have betters checks and balances for guns?

The law in most states says that you CANNOT BEING FIREARMS ONTO SCHOOL PROPERTY, THERE IS ALSO A PERIMETER RULE.

If this idiot did so, he should pay the price, also, why should people fear retribution if they are doing the right thing?

Idiots get to drive, become doctors, teachers and construction workers.

When you crack the secrets of the mind - check the internet for examples of stupidity and then we will make progress.

[blue]

So there you have it. Nothing will work shout the naysayers! So we should do....nothing.

Until of course, the next mass execution of innocents.(

Eliminate gun free zones.


That being said, even my ultra conservative brother thinks that the 2nd amendment is overrated. It wasn't intended for these times and that the average person has no need for an arsenal, let alone any assault weapons. I agree.

I do understand some people's fear of a gov't that has no respect for the people. I think they are a little bit crazy, but it is so easy for things to get tilted the wrong way. A well regulated militia? The armed forces? Or private militia's? Any way, I do think there needs to be some way of regulating access to weapons and types of weapons allowed. Some weapons just make it too easy to kill and you can't take it back at all after that.

After all, there are regulations and requirements to drive a car, perform in many occupations like medicine, education, construction, etc. Why do we not have betters checks and balances for guns?

The black powder rifle, was once an assault weapon. The flint lock rifle, was once an assault weapon. They were weapons of war, as archaic as they may seem today. A Free People should be able to stand up to a hostile .gov as the founders did with the Government.

The Government was once ruled by the people, and the Government feared the people. Today the .gov rules the people and is not afraid because it has continued to disarmed the people.

If a weapon is available to the local PD, it should be legal to the populace and not considered an assault weapon.

The flint lock of our for fathers age, is todays M16A4.

[Lady's Human]

So there you have it. Nothing will work shout the naysayers! So we should do....nothing.

Until of course, the next mass execution of innocents.

At which time we will again nash our teeth and moan and complain.

And do nothing. Because the naysayers say nothing will work.

How sad. I thought we are a nation that is creative and innovative and "get it done?"

Nope. We will continue to curse the darkness instead of lighting a candle. :(:(

Actually, if you go back several pages, a suggestion was made.

However, it didn't involve your personal goal, so you ignored it and replied with your usual snark about a typo.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Actually, if you go back several pages, a suggestion was made.

However, it didn't involve your personal goal, so you ignored it and replied with your usual snark about a typo.

Well if there is anyone who knows "snark" it is you!:D:D

(Just for fun...apparently you consider it "snark" when I correct you about the name of a law...is it also "snark" when you correct people about - well everything?)

But of course! It must have been a suggestion that involves your personal goal.

If you are referring to doing something about mentally unhealthy people getting guns - I don't disagree. Of course who will define mentally unhealthy is the challenge. (I will volunteer.) What's more - no
background checks are required when buying guns at gun shows - among other "loopholes." So mentally unstable person will not be prevented from buying guns at gun shows even if HIPAA allows access to mental health records. And of course, they can just "borrow" mom or dad's guns - or get a friend to buy for them.

There are many things that can be done to reduce this national problem - but among them has to be controls on guns.

[Lady's Human]

Straw purchases are illegal and result in federal time for the purchaser. (unless, of course, the straw purchase has been blessed off in advance by a federal agency, right Whitey?)

The "Gun show loophole" is both overstated and misreported. Dealers at gun shows are required to do NICS checks on purchasers, just like they are required anywhere else. The sole exception to NICS checks involves private party to private party sales, which in many states still involve NICS checks.

Guns are already controlled. The notion that it's just the wild west out there and you can just run into your local hardware store and plunk down a sawbuck and walk out with a gun is largely just that....a myth. It's one that certain parties prefer to portray as fact, but it's a myth.

How's gun control working for Chicago? NYC? While we're at it, how'd prohibition go? The war on drugs?

Yeah, bans and strict controls work ever so well.

[cassiesmom]

Question. Is there solid proof, one way or the other, that increased violence on TV, in movies and video games can increase a person's tendency to commit violent acts? I've heard "yes it does" and "no it does not" on the news. TV and movies have become so much more graphic in the violence they depict. I quit watching Criminal Minds for quite awhile because the stories went from suspenseful to downright violent. They must have had a lot of complaints because it seems to be scaled back somewhat.

[blue]

but among them has to be controls on guns.


Yeah, bans and strict controls work ever so well.

Prohibition work well for us.

[Lady's Human]

Prohibition work well for us.

It worked well for the Kennedy clan, it bankrolled their way into the White House and into the political realm for three generations.

[mrspunkysmom]

The law in most states says that you CANNOT BEING FIREARMS ONTO SCHOOL PROPERTY, THERE IS ALSO A PERIMETER RULE.

If this idiot did so, he should pay the price, also, why should people fear retribution if they are doing the right thing?

Idiots get to drive, become doctors, teachers and construction workers.

When you crack the secrets of the mind - check the internet for examples of stupidity and then we will make progress.

Fear Retribution? Because those that think they have been wronged do stupid stuff! Revengeful stuff! Being right doesn't mean much if you are injured or dead.

Yes a few always slip through the cracks, but before someone carries a gun in my classroom or home I would like to know that they are well trained. 2nd amendment rights? I have the right to determine what someone brings on my property, something the NRA disagrees with, at least as far as guns are concerned.

Disappointing coming from you, Richard. Being an idiot has nothing to do with being sane or stable. Of course this might have to do with the personal definition of idiot. This has much less to do with common sense and intelligence and much more to do with values and social connections with people.

I'm through trading barbs. I forgot these threads are about insulting others and not having meaningful discussions about a topic of concern.

[Lady's Human]

Fear Retribution? Because those that think they have been wronged do stupid stuff! Revengeful stuff! Being right doesn't mean much if you are injured or dead.

Yes a few always slip through the cracks, but before someone carries a gun in my classroom or home I would like to know that they are well trained. 2nd amendment rights? I have the right to determine what someone brings on my property, something the NRA disagrees with, at least as far as guns are concerned..

You can most certainly bar people from bringing firearms onto your personal property. The second amendment bars GOVERNMENT from banning the possession of firearms, and does in no way, shape or form bar you from banning them on your own property. As an illustration, the Government cannot bar a topic of discussion from this forum, but Karen can ban any discussion she desires to ban.

[RICHARD]

Fear Retribution? Because those that think they have been wronged do stupid stuff! Revengeful stuff! Being right doesn't mean much if you are injured or dead.

Yes a few always slip through the cracks, but before someone carries a gun in my classroom or home I would like to know that they are well trained. 2nd amendment rights? I have the right to determine what someone brings on my property, something the NRA disagrees with, at least as far as guns are concerned.

Disappointing coming from you, Richard. Being an idiot has nothing to do with being sane or stable. Of course this might have to do with the personal definition of idiot. This has much less to do with common sense and intelligence and much more to do with values and social connections with people.

I'm through trading barbs. I forgot these threads are about insulting others and not having meaningful discussions about a topic of concern.


You'd be hard pressed to come up with an excuse for bringing a firearm, any firearm onto school property.

Just like the people who accidentally bring a firearm into an airport because they 'forgot'.

I know what is in my possession pretty much all of the time and if I don't, I shouldn't be worrying about retribution,
I am worried about finding a lawyer and how much this eff-for-all is gonna cost me.

I'd like to think I am sane and stable, but I have my moron/idiot moments - I am not afraid to admit that.....but I sure ain't gonna go after someone that turns me in for my stupidity. I got some bigger fish to fry.

[lizbud]

Fear Retribution? Because those that think they have been wronged do stupid stuff! Revengeful stuff! Being right doesn't mean much if you are injured or dead.

Yes a few always slip through the cracks, but before someone carries a gun in my classroom or home I would like to know that they are well trained. 2nd amendment rights? I have the right to determine what someone brings on my property, something the NRA disagrees with, at least as far as guns are concerned.

Disappointing coming from you, Richard. Being an idiot has nothing to do with being sane or stable. Of course this might have to do with the personal definition of idiot. This has much less to do with common sense and intelligence and much more to do with values and social connections with people.

I'm through trading barbs. I forgot these threads are about insulting others and not having meaningful discussions about a topic of concern.


It would be a pity if this were your last post on this subject. Clarity of thought and expression is always a good thing.:)

[lizbud]

Interesting article on successful marketing of lethal weapons.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/20/opinion/waldman-guns-manhood/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

[Karen]

Interesting article on successful marketing of lethal weapons.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/20/opinion/waldman-guns-manhood/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

I have two responses to that, Liz -

1. What weapons are NOT lethal? Isn't that sentence redundant?

2. It is an article on an ad campaign - who is to say whether it worked at all, or had any impact whatsoever?

[RICHARD]

55570

If we outlaw guns, how will we defend ourselves from pirates?

[lizbud]

I have two responses to that, Liz -

1. What weapons are NOT lethal? Isn't that sentence redundant?

2. It is an article on an ad campaign - who is to say whether it worked at all, or had any impact whatsoever?


The article was talking about the marketing of the weapon used in the Newtown shooting. (A ultra lethal weapon)

Probably was redundant.

The ad also was very successful. That particular weapon was flying off the shelves in every gunstore in the country.
Now that the "pro gun" folks are convinced that all weapons will be banned by the ( Goverment) AKA. (the bogeyman)

http://www.bushmaster.com/index.asp

[cassiesmom]

"The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." -- National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre
You're missing the point. The goal is to keep the gun away from the bad guy in the first place!! Hello?!!? And what if you put someone in a school who claims to be a good guy but is actually bad? Then you have an adult with a gun in close proximity to children on a daily basis. Wasn't that the whole problem to begin with?

[Miss Z]

I'm not sure why it was only this evening whilst watching the news that I was reminded of the 1996 shooting in Dunblane, Scotland. I apologise if this has been mentioned before since I've skipped a fair few pages on this thread. The Dunblane shootings were similar in many respects to the recent shootings in Connecticut - a quiet, unassuming town, and many young children (and I believe teachers too) were shot dead before the gunman turned the gun on himself. The British tennis player, Andy Murray, was a survivor of the shooting.

I was very young at the time of the incident, about the age of the primary school children killed. I can't really recall the impact it had on my school life, but my parents can. Security at the school gates became paramount, with secretary-operated buzzer systems installed pretty much everywhere and alarm systems upgraded to the latest technology. Furthermore, following the incident almost all handguns were banned from private ownership without a licence. I cannot comment on what happened to those guns already in private ownership. Yet since then, we have had no massacres at any educational institution. In my 20 years, I can recall one other mass shooting in the UK. I can recall many more for the USA.

So no, banning something will never entirely eliminate the problem. Unless we could ban nut-jobs, perhaps. Indeed, mental health checks can only be helpful before a gun is sold to a member of the public, but how well would they be followed up? I can be sane today, but bonkers tomorrow. No-one necessarily need know I'm bonkers until I, say, pick up my gun and go on a shooting spree...

[Lady's Human]

Interesting article on successful marketing of lethal weapons.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/20/opinion/waldman-guns-manhood/index.html?hpt=hp_c2


I read that piece this morning and rolled my eyes.

Bushmaster (who didn't really need much marketing or a competent marketing department, as they make one of the best rifles of that type on the market) took a common comment (Dude, really? You'll lose your man card for that!) and turned it into a weak marketing campaign aimed at......people who were already going to purchase a weapon anyway.

This isn't Joe Camel, the Marlboro man, or the mass media campaigns trying to get you to drink brand X beer.....it's an ad aimed at people who were already going to make a purchase.You're not going to see ads for S+W during the evening news, though I'd welcome those in place of the endless stream of ads for Viagra, Cialis, or any of the other products in that vein that are slathered everywhere.

[Lady's Human]

"The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." -- National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre
You're missing the point. The goal is to keep the gun away from the bad guy in the first place!! Hello?!!? And what if you put someone in a school who claims to be a good guy but is actually bad? Then you have an adult with a gun in close proximity to children on a daily basis. Wasn't that the whole problem to begin with?

So cops shouldn't have weapons either? After all, one of them could (and has, on occasion) turned into a bad guy with a gun.

[pomtzu]

My grandson's high school went on lockdown today. A nice quiet school in a suburban/rural setting - much like in Sandy Hook. However, this school does have a city cop stationed inside the school at all times when there are students present. This didn't deter one student tho - who pulled a gun in class today in the classroom next to where my grandson was at the time. Another student screamed "he's got a gun" - everyone hit the floor and the cop came running at full speed. The student with the gun got tazered and "escorted" to the police station. Every school district with about a 25 mile radius was notified and they all went into lockdown mode. Don't know if the kid with the gun had ill intentions, or he was just being a smart-ass. Either way - too scary to suit me!

All of this insanity needs to end!!!!

[Lady's Human]

All of this insanity needs to end!!!!

Want to help the insanity stop?

Stop glorifying these twits in the Media. Instead of Adam Lanza, refer to the perp as "Idiot #XYZ"

Just a thought.

If you knew you were going to get called a jackass in mass media for being a twit and pulling a gun in a school, would you still do it? They're pubescent publicity stunts.

[RICHARD]

You're not going to see ads for S+W during the evening news, though I'd welcome those in place of the endless stream of ads for Viagra, Cialis, or any of the other products in that vein that are slathered everywhere.

And, what vein may that be?:eek::mad:;):o

[cassiesmom]

So cops shouldn't have weapons either? After all, one of them could (and has, on occasion) turned into a bad guy with a gun.

LH, that was also one of the points the NRA vice-president made in his talk. But police officers generally aren't in elementary schools for 6 to 8 hours a day and 5 days a week. The NRA vice-president talked about Secret Service agents, the military and gave the example of a police officer responding to your 911 call.

I understand his point, but I'm not sure that's the answer. For example. The school nearest to me is a single story building. It takes up almost the whole block. Classrooms and offices on the long sides, one short side is the gymnasium and the other short side is the multi-purpose room, which is where the kids have lunch, some assemblies, PTO and school board meetings, band and choir concerts and other school programs. There are entrances on all four sides of the building and the multi-purpose room has two entrances of its own. Would they put an officer at every entrance? They lock them all from the outside after school starts, and you have to ring the bell at the one nearest to the school offices if you need to get in during the day. What if the officer was at the front door and someone bashed their way in through a side door? Or through a window -- ??? Bullet proof glass? Alarms and cameras at all the entrances? What if two bad guys with guns and there is only one officer? Where does it end?

[pomtzu]

If you knew you were going to get called a jackass in mass media for being a twit and pulling a gun in a school, would you still do it? They're pubescent publicity stunts.

I don't doubt that some are stunts, but what about the ones that aren't - the ones that leave multitudes dead??? Columbine......VA Tech.....Sandy Hook - just to name the most notable. There have been numerous other ones where "only a few" lives were lost, and therefore they were forgotten rather quickly!:( Even one life lost is one life too many.

[mrspunkysmom]

It would be a pity if this were your last post on this subject. Clarity of thought and expression is always a good thing.:)

Thanks Liz

[Edwina's Secretary]

So you think you can ban weapons from your home? Guess again. Earlier I posted other random shootings. One was an appliance repairman who had a concealed carry permit and always carries a gun in his pocket. (Shot himself in the winky as a result.)

So apparently now I must ask the Sear's repairperson if he or she is 'packing heat.' He could just as easily have shot the home owner or the homeowner's cat after all. And if they are - can I bar them from my house? And how long will I have to do without a working frig while Sear's finds a repairperson who does not routinely pack a gun?

More guns. That is the best thing the NRA can come up with?

The gun show loophole is not a big thing! Really? 40% of the guns bought are bought without the need for a background check. No criminal check, no mental health ...nada.

I do agree with LH on one thing. I work very hard to never know the names of these idiots. While still realizing the reasons they do what they do is far more complex than just the publicity.

And yes Karen - weapons are lethal. It is just some are more efficiently lethal than others. And some - guns, bombs, and land mines come to mind, exist for no reason except to be lethal.

I had been waiting for the comparison to Prohibition. But let's compare cigarettes. According to some folks there is no reason to restrict guns because Americans will just find ways to violate the law...an interesting commentary in itself. But following the logic - let's get rid of all the laws restricting cigarettes! Let children buy and smoke! Let smokers smoker whereever and whenever they want to do so. On airplanes...in restuarants...in movie theaters. After all - Americans who want to smoke are going to smoke no matter what. What about their rights??? Give teachers guns? Fine - let them smoke in the classroom too. Hospitals, church - let there be no place where freedom is curtailed!

I believe societies have the right to ban some things. Things that go against the common good. There will always be people who will violate the law. But do we stoop to the lowest common denominator?

[Lady's Human]

So you think you can ban weapons from your home? Guess again. Earlier I posted other random shootings. One was an appliance repairman who had a concealed carry permit and always carries a gun in his pocket. (Shot himself in the winky as a result.)

There are many versions of "no trespassing" signs, and if the sign is clear, that carrying a weapon on your property will be considered unlawful trespassing, there's not much someone can do about it if you call the police and report them and bar them from your property.




The gun show loophole is not a big thing! Really? 40% of the guns bought are bought without the need for a background check. No criminal check, no mental health ...nada.


Where did that stat come from? I find it difficult to believe, particularly as I have purchased firearms and know what one needs to do to legally acquire them.




I had been waiting for the comparison to Prohibition. But let's compare cigarettes. According to some folks there is no reason to restrict guns because Americans will just find ways to violate the law...an interesting commentary in itself. But following the logic - let's get rid of all the laws restricting cigarettes! Let children buy and smoke!

Kids who want to smoke smoke. it's a fact of life. If you can't even keep cigs out of the hands of kids, how effective is law enforcement going to be at another ban? Kids get booze, marijuana, ecstasy, ad nauseum, and they're all illegal already.

[Edwina's Secretary]

There are many versions of "no trespassing" signs, and if the sign is clear, that carrying a weapon on your property will be considered unlawful trespassing, there's not much someone can do about it if you call the police and report them and bar them from your property.

But that is not the point. Someone can come in your home - such as a repairperson and you do not know if they have a concealed weapon or not. The person is not trespassing. Do I have to post a "gun-free zone" on the front door? Isn't it a bit unfair that the repairperson does not have to announce they have a gun but I have to announce I do not want guns in my house? So much for that "my home is my castle" thing! Perhaps require people with concealed weapons to wear a special patch?



Where did that stat come from? I find it difficult to believe, particularly as I have purchased firearms and know what one needs to do to legally acquire them.

An interview on the radio this morning with the director of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.


Kids who want to smoke smoke. it's a fact of life. If you can't even keep cigs out of the hands of kids, how effective is law enforcement going to be at another ban? Kids get booze, marijuana, ecstasy, ad nauseum, and they're all illegal already.

If that is the attitude - why have any laws? Let's throw all the laws out - because some people are going to break the law anyway! And then there is that was not my point. My point was about laws regarding WHERE you can smoke.

[Lady's Human]

My point is simple:

We as a society can regulate effectively, but bans have always been completely and totally ineffective.

There's a long history in the US of rum running, drug smuggling, and other dodges, and there are too many intelligent people who see a buck to be made if they can avoid John Law. Heck, we even smuggle 3L per flush toilets, and there's nothing customs has been able to do to stop it. :p

As a society we're extremely skilled about getting around bans and prohibitions of all sorts, a gun ban would just be one more avenue to make money.

[RICHARD]

'Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace, goodwill toward men”-Luke 2: 14

----------

I'd settle for one of the three, guess which one...........

[Catty1]

An interesting viewpoint (on which I have no opinion):

http://newcity.com/2012/12/19/dime-stories-the-year-of-the-gun/

[RICHARD]

Want to help the insanity stop?

Stop glorifying these twits in the Media. Instead of Adam Lanza, refer to the perp as "Idiot #XYZ"

Just a thought.

If you knew you were going to get called a jackass in mass media for being a twit and pulling a gun in a school, would you still do it? They're pubescent publicity stunts.

How's about the twits in the media?

I have to laugh at a few of the puppetheads who look into the camera and start to tear up - it's not for the victims, it's for the ratings......

---------------


Here's a little tidbit for consumption.

Back in the 70's and early 80's, New Years in El Lay County was pretty much a Wild West show....at about 5 minutes to midnight you would hear people in the area around my mom's house open up with AUTO-EFFIN-MATIC weapons. (All you people with an aversion to guns probably have the same aversion to guns being fired........just sayin.........)

Having never been to war, or heard what war sounds like?

It sounded like a bad Hollywood B movie.

If you were out and about you had to make sure we were under a roof or some protected area to keep from possibly being struck by falling bullets.

At my mom's old house there was a patio area that was covered with corrugated plastic and you could hear the buck shot sprinkling across it...

--------------------------------

After a few instances of people getting nailed with spent rounds, the C of LA took a huge stand against beanheads shooting into the air. (pun intended)

http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/30/local/me-3440

The last few years I spent in El Lay County there was pretty much no noise - it you don't count car horns, people yelling or a few illegal fireworks being lit.......

---------------------

Everyone put their "assault machine extra capacity latte weapons" away for the holidays and things, with the help of a very strict and no-nonsense tolerance for pinheads, morons and idiots?

Things did get better.

Maybe people do listen?

[Edwina's Secretary]

My point is simple:

We as a society can regulate effectively, but bans have always been completely and totally ineffective.

There's a long history in the US of rum running, drug smuggling, and other dodges, and there are too many intelligent people who see a buck to be made if they can avoid John Law. Heck, we even smuggle 3L per flush toilets, and there's nothing customs has been able to do to stop it. :p

As a society we're extremely skilled about getting around bans and prohibitions of all sorts, a gun ban would just be one more avenue to make money.

Last time I check there have been no mass murders with toilets.

Fine - if regulate is better than legislate - let get cracking and make some REAL regulations about guns. I am more afraid of the Rambo wannabee who thinks he or she can outshot the bad guys, the person who is so afraid of things they must have a pistol on them at all times, or the person who owns a gun but keeps it where it can be easily used by a child, a deranged adult, or stolen.

[RICHARD]

"W-w-w-w-w-wh-h-h-h-h-h-h-y-y-y-y-y-y-y me-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e--e-e-e?"

- Nancy Kerrigan.

[Lady's Human]

Last time I check there have been no mass murders with toilets.

Fine - if regulate is better than legislate - let get cracking and make some REAL regulations about guns. I am more afraid of the Rambo wannabee who thinks he or she can outshot the bad guys, the person who is so afraid of things they must have a pistol on them at all times, or the person who owns a gun but keeps it where it can be easily used by a child, a deranged adult, or stolen.

I think the person whose fear is running their life is you. You certainly seem to spend an inordinate amount of time railing against objects that are less likely to harm you than a car or a doctor.

[lizbud]

I think the person whose fear is running their life is you. You certainly seem to spend an inordinate amount of time railing against objects that are less likely to harm you than a car or a doctor.


Sounds like a snarky comment, minus any real value.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sounds like a snarky comment, minus any real value.

Well of course it is snarky.

But I also find it terribly funny. A person who is so afraid of other people...so very afraid he needs to have guns around for protection to suggest someone else is afraid!! (Although it might be lions and tigers and bears he is so afraid of I suppose.)

Now would that be ironic as well as funny? Or just hypocritical?

I wonder how many times I have said it is not the gun - the inanimate object - I fear - it is the person who is so afraid of the world around they need a gun. Is is ten, 20? Why look! In the very post he quotes I said it!

Tiresome to hear the same - totally inaccurate - snark isn't it?

[blue]

I am far more fearful of other drivers then I am of other gun owners. I have been tboned twice while driving, both times the other driver at fault. I have also been shot at twice, once within less then a foot of my head.

Most of my neighbors fire into their back yards and it doesnt bother me, the hills make good backdrops. Ive lived here 10 years and it happens every day or so.

ETA to point out the obvious: Post 443 is complete and total snark.

[blue]

It appear it's only okay to make snarky remarks when you are against firearms.

How so?

ETA: and its appears btw, how is that for snark?.

[blue]

I believe societies have the right to ban some things. Things that go against the common good.

You normally post the communist line, for the greater/common good. What could you be for, that is against against the the common good? You have my curiosity.

[Lady's Human]

I'm not afraid of people.

I have firearms for the same reason I have a chainsaw, a tiller, a generator, an axe (or 3) and many other tools. Situational preparation. It's not fear, it's logic.

[RICHARD]

I'm not afraid of people.

I have firearms for the same reason I have a chainsaw, a tiller, a generator, an axe (or 3) and many other tools. Situational preparation. It's not fear, it's logic.

oh, but you do not mention the length of the chainsaw blade.


Why do we need an 18 inch blade when a 14 incher will do?:confused:

[Catty1]

RICHARD, for some reason I thought you might like this...


55651

[RICHARD]

RICHARD, for some reason I thought you might like this...


55651

I guess I am the Tan Version of the AWM!!!


Thanks.;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I'm not afraid of people.

I have firearms for the same reason I have a chainsaw, a tiller, a generator, an axe (or 3) and many other tools. Situational preparation. It's not fear, it's logic.

So let's see. It's logic. Trees need trimming....the garden needs tilling...power sometimes goes out....people need shooting?

Sorry...as Spock would say..."Captain...that is not logical!"

[blue]

Perhaps require people with concealed weapons to wear a special patch?

Like a Gold Star or a Pink Triangle?



An interview on the radio this morning with the director of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

An unbiased group if there ever where one.


My point was about laws regarding WHERE you can smoke.

You can make me smoke outside, why wouldnt I leave my fire arm locked in my car if you didnt want it in your house?

Have you ever lived where nature can enter your yard? Coyotes, moose, or bears? Wolves maybe?

If I remember right you have visited AK. Would you visit again knowing any resident could be carrying a concealed firearm without a license?

You are also aware that full auto firearms are still legal in California?


So let's see. It's logic. Trees need trimming....the garden needs tilling...power sometimes goes out....people need shooting?

Sorry...as Spock would say..."Captain...that is not logical!"

Spock has shot people, and aliens, with a phazor and killed them, so sometimes its logical.

[Lady's Human]

So let's see. It's logic. Trees need trimming....the garden needs tilling...power sometimes goes out....people need shooting?

Sorry...as Spock would say..."Captain...that is not logical!"

It's completely logical when the sheriff is 1/2 hour away, or when animal control's reaction to a report of a dangerous animal in the area is "You've got a rifle, don't you?".

And yes, sometimes people need shooting.

[cassiesmom]

Perhaps require people with concealed weapons to wear a special patch?


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was the NRA executive vice-president who spoke about starting a national registry of people with mental illnesses. Would that include anybody who has ever taken an antidepressant or an anti-anxiety med? Heck, I've been a citizen of the Prozac Nation- do I need a special patch? H'll probably want a national registry of introverts next. We're quiet, thoughtful and some people consider us a little odd. All characteristics of the perpetrators of these tragic shootings. Maybe I need a patch for that too.

Seriously ... yes, there are things in my life that I regret, and things I would love to do over. But I'm not about to go out and start shooting people. I am trying to do a better job at not dwelling so much on past things, but to use it as a way to live differently in the future. I'm grateful for encouragement (and the occasional, virtual smack on the back of the head) from my PT Friends!

[cassiesmom]

WEBSTER, N.Y. (AP) — The police chief in Webster, N.Y., says that four firefighters were shot while responding to a blaze in the town near Rochester and that two are dead.

Chief Gerald Pickering says "one or more shooters" fired at the firefighters Monday morning. Officials say they had arrived at the scene of the blaze near the Lake Ontario shore around 6 a.m.

Officials say a fire started in one home and spread to two others and a car.

How sad. Firefighters were shot while doing their job.

[lizbud]

How sad. Firefighters were shot while doing their job.



What will the NRA suggest for firefighters now? Machine guns atop every fire engine? Tanks & other armored vehicles
proceed every fire run?

[chocolatepuppy]

It's completely logical when the sheriff is 1/2 hour away, or when animal control's reaction to a report of a dangerous animal in the area is "You've got a rifle, don't you?".

And yes, sometimes people need shooting.

Wow LH, it sounds like you live in my neighborhood. And over the years how many times has a law officer told someone, "if you shoot someone, drag them in the house"

Sometimes, you have to be the one to save yourself.

[Edwina's Secretary]

It's completely logical when the sheriff is 1/2 hour away, or when animal control's reaction to a report of a dangerous animal in the area is "You've got a rifle, don't you?".

And yes, sometimes people need shooting.

Sorry. I grew up in the country where we could not see the closest neighbor. I lived in the city of Chicago for over 20 years. Lived in Guadalajara for two years.

Never, not once, not one single time, was I so afraid that I felt the need to be ready to kill someone.

Logic has nothing to do with it.

[pomtzu]

Sorry. I grew up in the country where we could not see the closest neighbor. I lived in the city of Chicago for over 20 years. Lived in Guadalajara for two years.

Never, not once, not one single time, was I so afraid that I felt the need to be ready to kill someone.

Logic has nothing to do with it.

But have you ever been home - alone or otherwise - when someone was trying to break into your house?

I'm not for or against a gun for personal protection and I don't personally own one. And since I indeed was home when someone was trying to break in, and I live in a rural area with only the state police at our disposal and figuring about an hour to get here once called, then I would have been on the pro-gun side at that time. Fortunately, the rest of the family was home and my son took care of the situation without any weapon or assault, and it got reported to the state police. If I lived alone 24/7, then I probably would take steps to assure that I was as safe as possible, and if it included owning a gun (after gun safety and operating courses), then I most likely would. I don't "like" them, but I have a healthy respect for them - taught to me by my ex who was in law enforcement for the majority of his working days, and was a Marine and weapons instructor at The Basic School in Quantico, VA in his military days.

[mon]

There is no right or wrong on this subject in my opinion. I do believe that violence of any kind is wrong.

[Lady's Human]

Sorry. I grew up in the country where we could not see the closest neighbor. I lived in the city of Chicago for over 20 years. Lived in Guadalajara for two years.

Never, not once, not one single time, was I so afraid that I felt the need to be ready to kill someone.

Logic has nothing to do with it.

There's a complete disconnect, and you will never understand an opposing point of view as long as you deride the very basic viewpoint of being prepared as fear.

I assure you it's been a very, very long time since I've feared another human.

To illustrate it in another way, some people carry a AAA card, others carry tools, a couple of critical spares, and make sure they do a maintenance check on their vehicles before leaving on a trip. Guess which option I take?

[Edwina's Secretary]

But have you ever been home - alone or otherwise - when someone was trying to break into your house?

I'm not for or against a gun for personal protection and I don't personally own one. And since I indeed was home when someone was trying to break in, and I live in a rural area with only the state police at our disposal and figuring about an hour to get here once called, then I would have been on the pro-gun side at that time. Fortunately, the rest of the family was home and my son took care of the situation without any weapon or assault, and it got reported to the state police. If I lived alone 24/7, then I probably would take steps to assure that I was as safe as possible, and if it included owning a gun (after gun safety and operating courses), then I most likely would. I don't "like" them, but I have a healthy respect for them - taught to me by my ex who was in law enforcement for the majority of his working days, and was a Marine and weapons instructor at The Basic School in Quantico, VA in his military days.

Well...let's see. My apartment was burglarized...the police think while I slept. I lived alone - single female for over 20 years. Car was stolen. Oh! And I was mugged outside the Walgreen's. Still...never felt the need for the "option" that enabled me to kill.

Make no mistake. That is what a gun is. The option to kill. The means to kill. A "tool" that has no purpose except to kill.

I check my oil...I prepare my vehicle...I do all that stuff. But prepare to kill?? No thanks.

LH - you claim
I have a complete disconnect because I deride the very basic viewpoint of being prepared as fear (even though you are the one who introduced fear to the discussion...) What will it take to help you see the "other side?" You know...to connect to the light?

Oddly enough...I remember this commandment..."thou shall not kill..." and I don't remember any qualifiers! (Such as...unless you fear people wearing hooded sweatershirts in the rain....or unless the other people have their music too loudd...or unless...) But then...perhaps the rules have changed since my education????

[Lady's Human]

The commandment "thou shall not kill" is a mistranslation. That original text translates to something along the lines of don't kill innocents.

Were the commandment as you stated accurately translated into the KJV (which it wasn't) no follower of Joshua could have been following Mosiac law. Being that they were following orders from the man upstairs, however........

Nice try, I'll give you an 8 for effort, regardless of the over simplification of the argument.

As to seeing the other side of the argument, I see it, but reject the logic behind it. Relying on someone else to take care of issues just isn't something I'm inclined to do, particularly when the clean up crew is 1/2 hour away.

Congratulations on the record of being a victim, not sure how it's material ot this discussion, but it does clearly show you as someone who's more prone to relying on others for your security. After the first incident I'd have done something to prevent the others, but you're obviously of a different mindset.

[pomtzu]

I don't believe that because you own a gun for protection, that it means you have it to shoot to kill. Shoot to disable would work just fine in most cases. And if I did have a gun, I certainly would NOT have a permit to carry one with me - it would only be for my protection in my own home. But since I will never be in a position where I live alone, then this is all just "ifs" in my case. I have no problem with people who choose to have a hand gun in their home for their personal safety - it's the morons who collect many different guns and assault rifles and end up killing senselessly and viciously because something in their head goes screwy.

JMHO - be it right or wrong.............

[RICHARD]

I don't believe that because you own a gun for protection, that it means you have it to shoot to kill. Shoot to disable would work just fine in most cases. And if I did have a gun, I certainly would NOT have a permit to carry one with me - it would only be for my protection in my own home. But since I will never be in a position where I live alone, then this is all just "ifs" in my case. I have no problem with people who choose to have a hand gun in their home for their personal safety - it's the morons who collect many different guns and assault rifles and end up killing senselessly and viciously because something in their head goes screwy.

JMHO - be it right or wrong.............

And we get back to the age-old question about what exactly are the clues to someone going screwy??:confused:

The last moron - and just how the eff does a convicted murderer get a gun - shoots up a group of first responders, AFTER killing his sister and after killing his G-ma with a hatchet?

If we had a little rule about an "Eye for an eye" and had put this AH to death when presented with the chance?

We probably would not be having this conversation.

Also, why does the media find the need to hammer home the brand of a weapon?

In the years when the 'drive-by' shooting was in vogue, the media reported that the gangs were using "AK-47s" then cut to the film of the police emptying the car of bad guys and guns.

The guns were little .22 cal Rugers or shotguns....The medias obsession with putting an name/marque to a gun is 'funny' and just prods the next nut to fall from the trees.


-----------------

Another problem we have is not wanting to betray a loved one, neighbor or friend because of their odd behavior. And how many times has odd behavior turned into mass murder?

----------------

Here in town, one of the elected officials is due to see the judge for his third DUI offense in four years.

He hasn't killed anyone, yet, but why do we take the chance and not make it tougher to drive AFTER your first offense?

And why doesn't the media make light of the kinds of cars these fools drive?

I would like to know, that way I could give them a wide berth when I am on the road..........:rolleyes:

[pomtzu]

Richard - my point is: who, in the first place, needs an arsenal of weapons in their home - be it hand guns or "assault type" weapons.?? Just about anyone can flip and go screwy (including you or me :p), but someone with only that one handgun that they originally had for their own personal protection, will do a whole lot less damage than the person who has enough firepower to outfit a small army!

[RICHARD]

Richard - my point is: who, in the first place, needs an arsenal of weapons in their home - be it hand guns or "assault type" weapons.?? Just about anyone can flip and go screwy (including you or me :p), but someone with only that one handgun that they originally had for their own personal protection, will do a whole lot less damage than the person who has enough firepower to outfit a small army!

When my dad died, he had 13 long guns and 7 pistols.

He wasn't a collector, but he liked guns. He loved to shoot and he was feared at the shooting comps he entered - the most common complaint from the younger men was, "why do I have to shoot against (My Dad)?". Pops was 25-40 years older than most people in the groups he shot against and he won many prizes and trophys. (He shot small and large bore pistols and rifles, so he had a variety of "shooting irons" in his arsenal).

I inherited most of the collection and would like to purchase one more rifle (along with a safe).

I find some guns to be pieces of art and think that target shooting is a challenge, sport and way to relax. The mental and physical demands of TS are pretty intense and I do find it fun.

That said? I don't find consider my guns as protection or an arsenal, I don't fear them, nor would I disrespect them. They are put away and I don't think about them until I need to move them, pull them out to see that they are not rusting or to make sure they are still there.

There are responsible gun owners and idiots, just like cars, bicycle, motorbike and ?????? owners.

Yes, guns are meant for 'one reason' but that doesn't mean that they cannot be used in other manners?

[pomtzu]

Well - I stated my opinion so now I'll just shut up - again!!! This thread could probably go on for the next 10 years without any resolution/compromise/half-hearted agreement - and everyone will continue to argue/debate/discuss/criticize, etc, the same points over and over again - tho they just might use different wording so it doesn't appear that they are being redundant!

[blue]

DC police to investigate TV show incident - Crime Scene - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/dc-police-to-investigate-tv-show-incident/2012/12/26/c4ede51a-4f2e-11e2-950a-7863a013264b_blog.html)

Posted at 03:21 AM ET, 12/26/2012
DC police to investigate TV show incident
By Martin Weil

The D.C. police confirmed reports Wednesday that they are looking into an incident in which David Gregory, the host of the television show “Meet the Press,” displayed what he described as a high-capacity ammunition magazine.

Asked about media reports saying that authorities were looking into the incident, Gwendolyn Crump, the police spokeswoman, responded early Wednesday by e-mail: “Yes. We are investigating this matter.”

The incident came as Gregory was interviewing Wayne LaPierre, the CEO of the National Rifle Association, about measures that Gregory suggested might reduce the potential for mass killings, such as the one that occurred in Connecticut. .

In asking his guest on the NBC show whether high-capacity ammunition magazines should be banned, Gregory held an object in his hand and said it was a magazine that could hold 30 bullets.

In its firearms regulations, the The D.C. Code stipulates that “No person in the District shall possess, sell, or transfer any large capacity ammunition feeding device” whether or not it is attached to a firearm.

“Meet the Press,” generally is produced in the District.

After the TV show aired, references to the incident began to appear online, questioning whether the code had been violated.

Reports about the incident aired Tuesday on media outlets. Some of the reports indicated that police would try to determine whether the object was an actual high-capacity magazine.

At the hour at which reports of the inquiry were confirmed early Wednesday, it appeared impractical to obtain response from the television show, or the NBC network which carried it.

By Martin Weil | 03:21 AM ET, 12/26/2012

[RICHARD]

Karen Finney, a puppethead news reader for MSNBC was a fill-in on one of the regular programs today and she was going on and on about assault weapons and the AH who shot the firemen.

She made a comment about a "High Drum Magazine" for an assault rifle.

----------------

You have to laugh at the lengths that the media goes thru to get a story straight.

MORONS.

[Edwina's Secretary]

As to seeing the other side of the argument, I see it, but reject the logic behind it. Relying on someone else to take care of issues just isn't something I'm inclined to do, particularly when the clean up crew is 1/2 hour away.

Congratulations on the record of being a victim, not sure how it's material ot this discussion, but it does clearly show you as someone who's more prone to relying on others for your security. After the first incident I'd have done something to prevent the others, but you're obviously of a different mindset.

And there is where your so-called logic fails. In none of those situations would a gun have been of any use to me.

Muggers do not walk up to you and announce..."Madame, I am about to mug you so please prepare your weapon." It happens so fast. My friend who was with me and on the pay phone (pre-cell phone ubiquity) did not even see it. Had I a gun in my purse - there would have been an armed mugger afterwards.

My car? - I do not spend all night sitting outside guarding my car with a loaded gun. That's how it is when you park on a city street.

The buglary? The police believed it was my landlord - a pot smoking idiot who was angry that I was moving out. As I sleep through the whole event - assuming that is when it happened, what good would a gun have done?

And I would not think any of those situations warranted the death sentence. Rambo wannabes who fancy themselves precision sharpshooter have watched wwwwaaayyy too many movies!

Instead of a gun...I learned to be more alert about my surroundings...more careful about where I go, more sure to park my car where I should, have better locks on my doors. I got smarter. As any cop will tell you - avoiding dangerous situations is far better than being armed.

Relying on other people. I don't think so! I preferred to rely on my own good sense rather than an inanimate object.

By the way....

I do hope you will get the Pope straightened out on his misunderstanding of the Ten Commandments!:D:D

[Lady's Human]

Relying on other people. I don't think so! I preferred to rely on my own good sense rather than an inanimate object.

By the way....

I do hope you will get the Pope straightened out on his misunderstanding of the Ten Commandments!:D:D

Hebraic Insight…

The Jewish sages note that the word “ratsakh” applies only to illegal killing (e.g., premeditated murder or manslaughter) — and is never used in the administration of justice or for killing in war. Hence the KJV translation as “thou shalt not kill” is too broad.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Hebraic Insight…

The Jewish sages note that the word “ratsakh” applies only to illegal killing (e.g., premeditated murder or manslaughter) — and is never used in the administration of justice or for killing in war. Hence the KJV translation as “thou shalt not kill” is too broad.

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
00120 Vatican City, Italy, Europe

E-mail: [email protected]

Let him know....

How could so many people have been so wrong for so long...until you came along to straighten them out!

[Lady's Human]

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
00120 Vatican City, Italy, Europe

E-mail: [email protected]

Let him know....

How could so many people have been so wrong for so long...until you came along to straighten them out!

Not I, I'd put more stock in Hebrew scholars than the translators who created the KJV. The KJV bible, while wonderfully thundering language, is rife with inaccuracies in translation, and this has been known for quite some time.

[mon]

My dad was hansome and the finest person you could ever meet. He was a collecter of a few things and thought 2 357 magnums in his safe was a plan. He had them for 20 years. When he was 67 and his second wife left him, he took one out and blew his brains out. Sure there were more reasons but that's what he did 3 weeks before Chritmas 11 years ago. Pretty hard to live with that one. I got some wicked pepper spray for Christmas, to each his own I guess.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Mon...my deepest and sincerest condolences. I know your pain.

LH...I should think a "religious scholar" would know that the King James Version of the Bible is not the version used by the Catholic Church?

It's not my book but I do find it rather...situational ethics...Thou shall not kill does not apply if you think the person needs killing. Does that extent to the other nine? Keeep the Sabbath Holy - unless there is a football game on? Thou shall not steal - unless the person really doesn't need it.

They are the commandments - not the suggestions as someone once said to me. To suggest it is okay if it is a "legal" kill...whose laws define legal?

And how many of the rabbis were there when Moses got the tablets anyway?

I am sorry but I can only give you a 4.5. Interesting discussion but holes in it that a 747 could get through.

[Lady's Human]

LH...I should think a "religious scholar" would know that the King James Version of the Bible is not the version used by the Catholic Church?

I'm well aware that the Catholic Church does not use the KJV, after all, it was a text made by heretics to let the masses read the bible in their native language, however, most bibles translated prior to archeological discoveries in the latter part of the 20th century have inaccuracies because they are translations of translations, without the strict code of Hebrew scholars.

As to the leading part of that statement, I don't claim to be a religious scholar, for that matter I have little truck with any "religion".

Just for a little clarification on that statement, the Pharisees were religious. John had faith.




It's not my book but I do find it rather...situational ethics...Thou shall not kill does not apply if you think the person needs killing. Does that extent to the other nine? Keeep the Sabbath Holy - unless there is a football game on? Thou shall not steal - unless the person really doesn't need it.

YOu don't believe? Fine, stop denigrating others faith. I know you find conversation minus derision to be a nearly impossible bar for you to get to, but please try.





They are the commandments - not the suggestions as someone once said to me. To suggest it is okay if it is a "legal" kill...whose laws define legal?

And how many of the rabbis were there when Moses got the tablets anyway?

They are commandments, not suggestions....however, go back to the language they were originally written in, and they are far different in meaning from the religious dogma. As to how many rabbis were there when Moses got the tablets? None, however, the Hebrew scholarly traditions have maintained a fairly rigid record through the years.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Congrats LH! I think you made it two or three posts without giving in to the apparently irresistible urge to insult me. Well done!

You are the one insulting religion with your "reinterpretation of the Ten Commandments" to conveniently match your political agenda.

Talmudic wrangling is interesting but even the learned rabbis do not know in what language the tablets given to Moses were written. And how translated how many times? No one, not even you, knows in what language - or was it language or images? That God used to communicate his commandments.

[Lady's Human]

Congrats LH! I think you made it two or three posts without giving in to the apparently irresistible urge to insult me. Well done!

You are the one insulting religion with your "reinterpretation of the Ten Commandments" to conveniently match your political agenda.

Talmudic wrangling is interesting but even the learned rabbis do not know in what language the tablets given to Moses were written. And how translated how many times? No one, not even you, knows in what language - or was it language or images? That God used to communicate his commandments.

It's not MY reinterpretation of the ten commandments. There are multiple sources that disagree with both the literal translation into English and the interpretation(s). In addition, it goes well beyond solely Hebrew scholars, that Messianic Jewish commentary I used was just an example of one.

As to insults....

In the entire time the Dog House has existed, you have gone out of your way with multiple individuals to insult, denigrate and deride, consistently derailing peaceful discussion and dragging it down to the gutter. If someone disagrees with you, you don't find it enough to simply state your disagreement, you insist on using personal attacks in one form or another, as if disagreement with the esteemed ES is conclusive evidence that the individual is sub-human.

Frankly, sunshine, I've had it.

[Lady's Human]

I don't think you're going to get what you're hoping for.......

[RICHARD]

55700

"Take two tablets and call me in the morning..."

"The Rosetta Stone? This ain't!"

"Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger!"

"Does this look like English to you?"

"....When you pry them from my cold, dead hands."

[blue]

I don't think you're going to get what you're hoping for.......

Where is the Like button?

[Edwina's Secretary]

As to insults....

In the entire time the Dog House has existed, you have gone out of your way with multiple individuals to insult, denigrate and deride, consistently derailing peaceful discussion and dragging it down to the gutter. If someone disagrees with you, you don't find it enough to simply state your disagreement, you insist on using personal attacks in one form or another, as if disagreement with the esteemed ES is conclusive evidence that the individual is sub-human.

Frankly, sunshine, I've had it.

Now that...is the pot calling the kettle black!

You could not have made a better description of your own behavior if you tried!

I won't bore folks here with my opinion of your behavior. Trust me...Sunshine...I don't need to do so. It is obvious to everyone. (Okay, maybe everyone except blue and family...)

[blue]

Now that...is the pot calling the kettle black!

You could not have made a better description of your own behavior if you tried!

I won't bore folks here with my opinion of your behavior. Trust me...Sunshine...I don't need to do so. It is obvious to everyone. (Okay, maybe everyone except blue and family...)

Thanks for the honorable mention sweetness.

Unlike you I am well aware of when I make a dig on someone. You on the other hand are completely clueless that you are acting in an insulting or passive aggressive manor when you post. You have no idea that your everyday comments, that are normal for you and those that suck up to you, are insulting to even hard core liberals.

Face it you dont value Liberty, and you enjoy lording over others in your career.

ETA: To be clear, I do not believe ES is honest enough with herself to see that she is being, belittling, insulting, or ignorant with others. She actually believes she is above everybody else. I wouldnt be surprised if she lives in a gated community that employs armed guards, but at the very least she live in a Home Owners Association and is active in it.

[Lady's Human]

I won't bore folks here with my opinion of your behavior. Trust me...Sunshine...I don't need to do so. It is obvious to everyone. (Okay, maybe everyone except blue and family...)

Frankly, sweetie, I don't care what your opinion of my behavior is. You're so blind to how offensive you truly are that you'll never, ever see the light.

Conversely, honey, I know exactly how offensive I'm being to your delicate sensibilities, and could be far, far more offensive, however, I choose not to out of respect for both others on the board and the owner.

[Lady's Human]

Maybe just generally offensive. I wonder how you get away with your comments .... oh wait, related to the moderator (uh, huh)... anyone else would be deleted.

To clarify one thing, no, my relation to the mod in reality keeps me on a tighter leash than anyone else on the board.

I know where the lines are drawn, and as Karen well knows, my comments are VERY restrained from what they would be in person.

[Lady's Human]

Jeeze, wouldn't like to meet you when yur packin' heat.

Verbal repartee has what exactly to do with physical temperament? I'd personally be far, far more worried about certain people here when they're outwardly very, very calm.

[Lady's Human]

LMAO!!!!!

Froth? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly what part of the military were you a part of? The KPs?

[Lady's Human]

Lots of foaming at the mouth gun nuts on this forum. Am I right?

The silence is deafening.

Thanks for playing, sweetie, have a nice day.

[Lady's Human]

Did you want to challenge me to a duel? (smirk)

Why? While I'm truly wondering where that pathetic attempt at whatever you intended it to be came from, I have an additional question:

Are you going to come unarmed?

It is, after all the same way you've attempted to enter this discussion.

[Lady's Human]

Don't need arms against people with empty heads.

Gotta go now, duty calls, gotta defend the free world against the civilian nut jobs. Tough job, but somebody's got to do it. Take care, pal - don't take any wooden Glocks.

With what?

Your mighty dishtowel? Or have you upgraded to a serving spoon?

[Alysser]

I promised myself I'd stop coming on this thread before I get accused of "jumping on people who don't agree with my opinion" again.

It's purely amusing and actually fascinating to me how the only people being jumped on and ganged up on are people who oppose gun control and when the one being jumped upon says something remotely defensive they are accused of going against someone who "simply has a different opinion", as Spock would say..."fascinating".

This thread has done nothing but pit two sides against each other. Fine. We can't change your opinion, you can't change ours. I truthfully don't understand the point of it anymore.

[RICHARD]

The thread is like watching John McEnroe and Andre Agassi play tennis.

Agassi hits one over the net, McEnroe missed the ball and starts screaming like a little biatch.

----------------------------

There's discourse and intercourse.

Intercourse is fun, discourse is a little more distant.

-----------------------------

The problem is that 'people' are way too quick to label someone as a 'gun nut' because they want to possess or shoot any firearms.

I probably am nuts, but I have a hearty eff u to the people who are far crazier that I am - that believe just because I like guns I am a 'nut' incapable of owning one RESPONSIBLY.

I don't know about anyone's mental status and personally don't care.

That is your problem.

------------------------------

I am not particularly fond of reptiles, snakes to be truthful, but I am not going to start picking fights with people on the reptiles threads.

Posting a story where some idiot lets his child get squashed by a boa that he let roam the house is just asking for trouble.

There are tons of people who are responsible reptile/snake/lizard owners out there and posting my fear of them - and telling people that they are 'nuts', 'stupid', 'morons' is kinda rude, stupid and disrespectful.

The same can be said about pit bull owners? Car owners who drag race on city streets? People who smoke in bed and light the bed on fire?

------------------------

One thing?

I do laugh at people who shoot their nutz off with a gun, I pity the people who accidentally kill a loved one with a gun and I hate the morons who think that a gun is the best way to solve a problem in their lives.

-----------------------


One other thing?

When you come to a discussion, make sure you have enough ammo to keep in the fight, I get it that you don't like guns - you have stated that opinion ad naseum - when you run out of bullets, yelling at the other person is pretty futile.

Now, I'll get slammed for making that comparison - bullets/arguements - and people will look at it like I advocate 'gun stupidity,' but I don't care.

-------------------------------

Rudeness is rudeness and if you go back and reread parts of the thread and don't see it?

[RICHARD]

Don't need arms against people with empty heads.

Gotta go now, duty calls, gotta defend the free world against the civilian nut jobs. Tough job, but somebody's got to do it. Take care, pal - don't take any wooden Glocks.

I have a BIL who was an LAPD cop and he had an attitude that "civilian nut jobs" were all that he dealt with.

I gave is a first thought and wondered how he was able to discern the NJs from the sane people to the bordeline NJs.


I do respect the people who take care of us civilian nut jobs.

But, sometimes I wonder about the professional nut jobs that seem to slip thru the cracks.:eek:


-------------------


Isn't a nut job the same as neutering?

[chocolatepuppy]

Lots of foaming at the mouth gun nuts on this forum. Am I right?

Just ... WOW!:eek:

[pomtzu]

Just ... WOW!:eek:

Agreed! What a pleasant individual, huh? And happy holidays to her too.....................:rolleyes:

[phesina]

Gotta go now, duty calls, gotta defend the free world against the civilian nut jobs. Tough job, but somebody's got to do it.

Do you have a job doing something like this?

[Alysser]

Do you have a job doing something like this?

Hopefully not, she'd probably assumes everyone who owns a firearm is a nut job.

[blue]

Hopefully not, she'd probably assumes everyone who owns a firearm is a nut job.

Thats what the main stream media wants you to believe. Its what ES wants you to believe.

An armed populace ensures a Democratic Republic remains intact. Tyrants and dictators understand this, that is why they enjoy a disarmed populace. ES would rather be a subject then a free citizen.

[lizbud]

An armed populace ensures a Democratic Republic remains intact. Tyrants and dictators understand this, that is why they enjoy a disarmed populace. ES would rather be a subject then a free citizen.


Hear this all the time & wonder if people really believe what they are saying.A USA military could take down whole other Nations within days will be held in check by a group
of wannabe Rambos with their trusty "firearms". It's laughable. Evidently, repeating this phrase in every discussion about gun control, somehow makes them feel invincible.

[phesina]

An armed populace ensures a Democratic Republic remains intact. Tyrants and dictators understand this, that is why they enjoy a disarmed populace. ES would rather be a subject then a free citizen.

How come, say for instance Canada, England, Germany, Denmark, countries with strong gun-control laws, are not tyrannical dictatorships?

And why are these countries not overrun with gun violence, gun crimes, gun deaths? After all, the bad guys can always get guns, but the good guys can't. How come bad guys aren't going around shooting up schools, theaters, malls, churches all the time in those places?

[Randi]

Yes Liz, all these wannabe Rambo types really are laughable, but also frightening - you never know when something ticks them off and they go beserk. It has happened again and again and will propbably continue. :(

In Denmark, ordinary citizens are not allowed to have guns. Some morons do go around with knives, though, but this was not common just a few decades ago. A law was implemented a few years ago... you're not allowed to go around in public with knives longer than 7 cm. See below:

"In public places, colleges, youth clubs, leisure facilities and the like, it is prohibited to carry a knife or dagger, except as part of a profession, for hunting, fishing or sport or another similar creditable purpose. The ban does not include folding knives with blades of more than 7 cm, which can not be locked in the unfolded position. "

[Catty1]

Harper is as close to a dictator as we ever have had - and I hope he is thoroughly booted in the next election.

[sparks19]

Look at how we talk to and about people. Look at how we TREAT people. We wonder why people lose it and want to take everyone out. No wonder kids think there is nothing wrong with torturing students they don't like, look at how the adults behave.

[RICHARD]

Hear this all the time & wonder if people really believe what they are saying.A USA military could take down whole other Nations within days will be held in check by a group
of wannabe Rambos with their trusty "firearms". It's laughable. Evidently, repeating this phrase in every discussion about gun control, somehow makes them feel invincible.

Well, since we are talking about 'wannabe Rambos' let's talk about the "Stupid peaceniks", can we?

It's pretty insulting to be thought of as a 'wannabe Rambo' because I like to shoot a gun or want to own one.

That would be just like me saying that people who want green energy or drive hybrid cars are treehugging idiots.
Or that women who like cats are lonely and incapable of having a relationship with others, especially men.

---------------------

I haven't really read anything about people being Rambo or wanting to be Rambo - on this thread.

Of course, if I want to own a gun, bullets and want to target shoot on the weekends, that makes me a 'clear and present danger' to the people around me?

What an effing laugh.

I fear the idiots that drink and drive, talk on a cell phone, smoke cigarettes while driving -I fear people who smoke in bed, prepare my food or someone who decides that a nice biohazard in my water or air is the answer to THEIR problems?

----------------------

I do not think my guns are an extension of my penis, neither is my car, wallet or tax bracket.

I find the insinuation that I am a "rambo" because I like guns to be a direct reflection of the people who either do not like, trust or would not be able to handle a gun or the responsibilities of owning firearms.

If you don't like it or cannot handle it, suck it up.

My lifestyle choices shouldn't bother you - nor should my responsible ownership of any firearm.

[chocolatepuppy]

Hear this all the time & wonder if people really believe what they are saying.A USA military could take down whole other Nations within days will be held in check by a group
of wannabe Rambos with their trusty "firearms". It's laughable. Evidently, repeating this phrase in every discussion about gun control, somehow makes them feel invincible.

No desire to be Rambo. Would just like to protect myself in my own home.

[pomtzu]

No desire to be Rambo. Would just like to protect myself in my own home.

But I sure as heck wouldn't keep my gun on the dresser like you do. :eek: If I had one it would be on the nightstand - it's much closer than the dresser and I wouldn't even have to get out of bed! :p:D

[mon]

I am not really sure what there is to discuss. Folks who want guns get them. Those who do not, do not. Right , wrong, legal or illegal. People have the free will to get what they want. As far as the law goes.... :rolleyes:

[Karen]

But I sure as heck wouldn't keep my gun on the dresser like you do. :eek: If I had one it would be on the nightstand - it's much closer than the dresser and I wouldn't even have to get out of bed! :p:D

All depends on how your furniture is set up ... At the old house, my dresser was right next to the bed (old New England house, second floor room with sloping ceilings ...) and it was where my glasses rested at night - close enough so I could reach them without any effort!

[RICHARD]

..France counts 1,193 cars torched on New Year's Eve

Associated Press – 54 mins ago.

PARIS (AP) — Hundreds of empty, parked cars go up in flames in France each New Year's Eve, set afire by young revelers, a much lamented tradition that remained intact this year with 1,193 vehicles burned, Interior Minister Manuel Valls said Tuesday.

His announcement was the first time in three years that such figures have been released. The conservative government of former President Nicolas Sarkozy had decided to stop publishing them in a bid to reduce the crime — and not play into the hands of car-torching youths who try to outdo each other.

France's current Socialist government decided otherwise, deeming total transparency the best method, and the rate of burned cars apparently remained steady. On Dec. 31, 2009, the last public figure available, 1,147 vehicles were burned.

Like many countries, France sees cars set on fire during the year for many reasons, including gangs hiding clues of their crimes and people making false insurance claims.

But car-torching took a new step in France when it became a way to mark the arrival of the New Year. The practice reportedly began in earnest among youths — often in poor neighborhoods — in the 1990s in the region around Strasbourg in eastern France.

It also became a voice of protest during the fiery unrest by despairing youths from housing projects that swept France in the fall of 2005. At the time, police counted 8,810 vehicles burned in less than three weeks.

Yet even then, cars were not burned in big cities like Paris, and that remained the case this New Year's Eve. Minister Valls said the Paris suburban region of Seine-Saint-Denis, where the 2005 unrest started, led the nation for torched cars, followed by two eastern regions around Strasbourg.

For some, the decision to tell the public how many cars have been burned on New Year's Eve is a mistake.

Bruno Beschizza, the national secretary for security matters in Sarkozy's UMP party, said on iTele TV that publishing the numbers motivates youths to commit such crimes. "We know that neighborhoods compete," he said. Gang rivalries center on who can torch the most cars, with claims made on social networks like Facebook and Twitter, he said.

------------------------------------------

Don't they make BIC lighters in France?

WHO NEEDS A LIGHTER WITH THOUSANDS OF LIGHTS?

[pomtzu]

All depends on how your furniture is set up ... At the old house, my dresser was right next to the bed (old New England house, second floor room with sloping ceilings ...) and it was where my glasses rested at night - close enough so I could reach them without any effort!

What I said was meant only as a "tongue-in-cheek" statement. :D I figured we needed something to lighten the mood of this thread! :eek::p

[Lady's Human]

How come, say for instance Canada, England, Germany, Denmark, countries with strong gun-control laws, are not tyrannical dictatorships?

And why are these countries not overrun with gun violence, gun crimes, gun deaths? After all, the bad guys can always get guns, but the good guys can't. How come bad guys aren't going around shooting up schools, theaters, malls, churches all the time in those places?


Switzerland isn't "overrun" by gun violence either, though they require people to have firearms.
Statistically, gun violence is no worse now than it ever has been, and in reality the statistics have dropped. What's different is the fact that blood sells advertisement, and certain organizations have agendas to push.

While we're tossing around other countries' statistics, how about we get police in the US the same density as they have in European countries, and give them the same powers they have in Europe? Napoleanic law is far, far different from English common law and the US constitution.