View Full Version : Sould all dogs be trained?

11-19-2000, 11:39 AM
To train or not to train that is the question and I am stuck in the middle http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/confused.gif and i`m not sure if I should train my new puppy or not because some one told me that most dogs who are trained are misrable http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif because their owners are pushing them so hard, have any ideas?thanks.

11-19-2000, 12:28 PM
Whoever told you that was not only wrong, but hurtful, too. All dogs should be trained, in a loving and kind way. Being trained actually makes a happier dog, because the dog now knows what is the right thing to do, and how to make the owner happy! EVERY dog should be trained, the most miserable dogs I have seen were ones with no training. In many breeds, there is a need to be a "working" dog, so training also lets these dogs know what their "job" is! Love and praise and treats help make training both useful and fun!

11-19-2000, 02:24 PM
The untrained dog, at best, thinks of itself as the alpha dog in the pack. In the domestic dog the pack consists of the people and animals that share the dog's territory. That doesn't sound too bad at all until you take into account that an alpha has the responsibility of deciding just about everything that the pack does, from defending territory to what and when they are going to eat. Take into account all the things in a man made world that a dog would not encounter in the wild such as cars and shops and laws. The untrained dog may decide that the territory has to be defended from EVERYTHING that steps foot within the boundary, which the dog has decided and you don't know, including the mailman, the local priest, your cats or next doors kids. The dog also has the responsibility of disciplining the pack when they do something wrong - think about that for a few minutes! The alpha dog also decides who leaves the den and when - remember this a best case.
Most dogs will simply be in a constant state of anxiety not knowing who is the leader, who is in charge and where the direction they crave is coming from. They will be unsettled, uncontrollable and destructive. House training is a taught behaviour. Walking on a lead is taught. Coming when called is taught.
Naturally the dog is a follower, it needs structure, rules and direction. It is not, as we are, always looking to be first, it is looking for a competent and fair leader and then it feels safe and secure.
It is, in fact, cruel to deny the dog this leadership and almost impossible to live with a totally untrained dog.

11-19-2000, 02:41 PM
Well I dont think the person at the Shelter knew much about dogs.

11-19-2000, 03:11 PM
Every dog should get obedience training. Use a gentle hand, be kind, use tons of praise and small cookies. Make it fun. Don't make it work. I don't know of any "dog people" who would advise against obedience, but if someone did indeed say such a thing to you, disregard it. They obviously are not dog people. You lab may get big. He may start to like to pull you around on the leash, and he may think that he has to jump on someone in order to say "hi" to them. That's one thing for a 3 pound dog, that's quite another for a lab. It will strengthen the bond between dog and handeler...I guarantee it! He will have a new found respect for you, he will get a chance to prove his love to you, he will have a better time around other dogs, as it also teaches dogs how to socalize properly with one another.

If and when you do obedience, use a gentle hand. Just keep that in mind. Make it fun. That's all that you have to remember. If you are not having fun then chances are Goblin is not having fun either and that will defeat the purpose of obedience. Just make it into a game with TONS of rewards. Most of the obedience places I have seen focus on having fun. Just research it a bit and make sure you find a place that does positive reinforcement training (with praise, lots of cookies etc.)

Hey, find a good training school, sign up for a class and in 3 weeks, if you don't find it fun and you don't enjoy it and Goblin hates going to class and hates learning things to better his behavior then just stop going and forget what we all told you http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif I am willing to bet tho, that if you do sign up for a class and take him to class that you will both enjoy it very much and you will be glad you did it.

11-19-2000, 04:00 PM
Ok. I didn't read what everyone posted but here's my opinion.
All dogs should be trained, Untrained dogs are embarasing when they out in public, they don't listen to you in an emergancy.

When to train: From the start, when max was 2 months old he knew how to sit. lay down, & stay. I know someone who has another rottie who is untrained (& 2 other dogs untrained) & they don't listen to her, they tear up her house.

Training isn't a bad thing. It's kind of like teahing a child, infact thats what it is. You don't want a 5 year old crying there head off when they don't get there way, or a teenager who dose things behind you'r back..
I did take Max to Dog training school. No not the kind where you send the dog there & in 3 weeks you have a perfectly normal well behaved dog.
Not gonna happen!!
We went every Thursday I was the handler & so on & so fourth.

Either way you look at it
Training you'r dog will not only help you but help you'r dog. Look in to Kennels that offer training classes.
Please Trainm you'r dogs. I've seen so many bad things happen to untrained dogs.
I could write a list of them if you want. but then nobody would read this.

Good Luck
Tori ~

11-20-2000, 10:13 AM
I cannot believe someone at a shelter would tell you not to train your dog, when one of the most common reasons owners surrender dogs to shelters is: Lack of training!

Please do train your dog as others have suggested. My dogs LOVE doing training, I havent done a class in awhile, although they each did at least two obedience classes. Doing training is some of the most fun I have had with my dogs, and they with me. After all, they get TONS of attention, praise, treats and made of like they are the most clever dogs to ever roam the earth. What dog wouldn't love that?

Sophies Daddy
11-20-2000, 04:39 PM

One of the greatest things that you can do with a dog is to obedience train. As stated above, your dog will appreciate understanding it's place in your household and will love you all the more for it. Training should begin early as well. The main reason for this is that the larger your lab gets, the harder it will be to manage as an untrained dog. Simple dominance exercises, which help your dog understand that you are the alpha dog, are much easier to begin as a puppy than when your dog is 85lb+.

Another great side effect of training is what you will learn about your dog. A good obedience instructor will tell you a background on the commands and actions and how they relate to dog society. Your dog only understands your commands as a translation into "dog language." He or she may resist some commands or may easily conform, but these behaviors will tell you what type of personality your dog has better than if the dog could tell you him/herself.

Through obedience, you will interract with the dog and learn dog language as well. The more you understand your dog's behavior, the better you will be able to detect your dog's mood. You will be able to tell when your dog is feeling happy, sad, whether it is hurt, sick, upset, making up to you, etc.. I don't expect you to be sniffing buts or marking your neighborhood, but understanding your dog makes these behaviors a lot less disgusting.

As for making your dog miserable, look at Sophie's pictures. She has placed in the top three for the event in all of her obedience competitions and she is still the happiest dog alive! She gets excited as soon as she recognizes where we are going and I have heard the same thing about other dogs from my students.

Just be sure train your dog in a positive manner, ask LOTS of questions of your instructor, listen to your instructor, go to class every time, and practice every day (about ten but no longer than 15 minutes each day). Give your dog plenty of attention at home too, as if he/she is part of your family. You won't believe in how short a time you and your dog have a relationship you could never have imagined!

P.S. Slip-chain (choker) and prong collars are not inhumane if used as intended. They are not punishment devices, but attention getters if used properly. I recommend the use of a slip-chain collar for all but the soft throated breeds (your dog isn't). If you allow your dog to pull on the collar or choke your dog with it, you are not using it properly and you are only hurting your dog. For medium and large breeds that pull regardless of the slip-chain collar, a prong collar is a good tool. The proper use of the collar allows the dog to correct itself. Any corrections using this collar should be brief and not using much force. Failure to use these collars properly is probably the main reason for miserable dogs in training and inability of trainers/parents to make progress in obedience. You will only hurt your relationship with your dog. Your instructor can help you in the proper use of these tools.

Another useful tool is the haltie or Gentle Leader type collar. While this collar is the most humane way to curb pulling, some dogs may react violently to it, which is a bad thing if you are trying to train your dog, and people on the street sometimes confuse it as a muzzle which is bad for your dog's socialization.

Food and positive voice is by far the best motivator and, when used in conjunction with a proplerly used collar, it not only establishes you as a desirable provider, but also establishes you as a controller. Both of these things are essential in teaching your dog that you are Alpha. While some newer schools will try to eliminate one or the other, in my experience the combination of the two works best. I recommend that you find a school with a good balance between the two. Visit a few schools before you choose. Look for a school that uses lots of treats, happy voices, and stresses proper use of a collar. Try to eliminate fad schools that claim that they can train your dog through psychology: I have visited such schools and spoken to their students. Most dogs make very little or very slow progress and generally don't accept the authority of the owner/parent. If they cannot help you train your dog, they will blame it on your dog, you, or may even, as happened in one case of a dog who is currently in my class, recommend that the dog be put to sleep (this dog was simply very dominant, bored, and smarter than its parents and their daughter. It got a rise out of challenging them and did so in threatening dog-language ways. After getting the dog into my class, he quickly became my best student and the family is no longer having a problem with him! They are planning to compete with him and I believe that he can go very far.)

Good luck and happy training http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif!

[This message has been edited by Sophies Daddy (edited November 20, 2000).]

11-22-2000, 05:52 AM
Well I was pretty shocked too but I figured she knew more about it than me.

11-25-2000, 03:34 PM
I called the shelter and told them the womens name and they said she does not even work in the Dog section she works in the Cattery.I feel like an idot I should`ve asked first where she works!!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

11-25-2000, 04:25 PM
I would condider writing a letter of complaint to the manager of the shelter. This woman should not be handing out advice to people who have the best interests of the dogs at heart. She is giving dangerous advice and anyone who follows it is very likely to return their dogs to the shelter within a few days!!

Sophies Daddy
11-25-2000, 11:11 PM
I agree, this woman should not be giving advice! Maybe, because she works in the cat section, she is a cat person as well. She might want the dogs to come back http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/wink.gif.

This person should at least be reprimanded for her actions. It was very irresponsible of her to give you that response.

[This message has been edited by Sophies Daddy (edited November 26, 2000).]

11-26-2000, 03:37 PM
Well you wont believe what I saw http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/mad.gifwhen I was taking my dog in for a check up .I saw that woman talking to people with thier dog and she was giving them advise.So I got the manager and he restricted her to only giving people with cats advise. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

11-26-2000, 08:11 PM
I'm glad you told the manager about that lady

11-29-2000, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by carrie:
I would condider writing a letter of complaint to the manager of the shelter. This woman should not be handing out advice to people who have the best interests of the dogs at heart. She is giving dangerous advice and anyone who follows it is very likely to return their dogs to the shelter within a few days!!

Well I`ll have to try in case she goes back into the dogs again!!!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gifThanks!

12-04-2000, 05:44 PM
Hi my friend has a sheltie. Do you have pictures of your sheltie?? Please email me if you do.

12-05-2000, 07:33 PM
Well Retriever,

I dont have a Sheltie but if you don`t know what they look like just imagine what a Collie looks like minaturized. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

12-08-2000, 08:17 PM
Every dog needs to be trained. How far you go with it depends on you and your dog. Our first dog was shown for obedience - winning a Companion Dog certificate from the AKC. The last 3 all went to dog training classes until they knew the basics like sit, stay, down, come and heel. Not that most of them heeled very well because we were pretty content just having them walking beside us without pulling!! They all thrived on the training because basically they wanted to please us. We never started formal training classes until they were six months old. However, with our new puppy Molly - who we got at 7 weeks - the Vet said to start teaching her at home immediately using small treats and lots of praise. He said that pups that young are like little sponges and absorb everything very quickly. Was he ever right!! She already had learned sit, down, and most importantly come by the time she started her first puppy obedience class at 3 1/2 months. She then learned to walk on a leash without pulling. Unfortunately she was afraid of other dogs - and wouldn't play with the other puppies so we enrolled her in a second puppy class at a different school just for the socialization (she was too young to start beginner's training). She has since learned stay, is working on heel and plays joyfully with our neighbor's 120 lb Rottweiler. Molly is a 13 lb Miniature Schnauzer and loves her training. We've even taught her to do fun things like chase a ball or frisbee, bring it back and drop it. We find this a great plus as she gets a lot of exercise - and we are getting too old to chase her!! The more she learns the happier she is - as are we. Enjoy!!