Moral Dilemma

[Pinot's Mom]

I'm having a real dilemma.

Very dear friends of ours, who have a great deal on their plate (3 kids under 9, 3 kitties, 25 chicks (as in egg producing), a bee hive, an organic garden for their catering business...) have an older kitty who we'll call Puss. He is 19 years old, showing some signs of age, but nothing serious. They want to put him down because there seem to be behavior problems in the younger kitties. Am I wrong in thinking this is cruel?

[Medusa]

It doesn't make sense to me. They want to have the old cat PTS b/c the younger cats are misbehaving? :confused:

[Freedom]

:(:(:(

[lvpets2002]

:( Thats so Sad.. Well what I would have to ask them is == Hey if you are about to give birth to a new baby ,, then does this mean you will have your grandfather put to sleep??

[Catty1]

Is there any way you can 'poof' him, even with permission, and give him his own room at your place temporarily?

Poor guy - all he did was get older!:(

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

It is such a personal decision, deciding to euthanize...But if the cat is not ill...All I can say if it were mine, I'd provide him with his own room and spend as much time in there with him as I could. Let him finish living his life as King of His Room.

[Prairie Purrs]

This brings tears to my eyes. What I wouldn't give to have my kitties live to 19 or beyond! And what a horrible lesson for the children to teach them that they can just dispose of an older pet when it gets inconvenient.

[gini]

This brings tears to my eyes. What I wouldn't give to have my kitties live to 19 or beyond! And what a horrible lesson for the children to teach them that they can just dispose of an older pet when it gets inconvenient.

All I can do is echo Prairie Purr's thoughts. A kitty gives you 19 wonderful years - and this is your thanks?:eek:

[krazyaboutkatz]

This brings tears to my eyes. What I wouldn't give to have my kitties live to 19 or beyond! And what a horrible lesson for the children to teach them that they can just dispose of an older pet when it gets inconvenient.
I totally agree. I hope you can talk some sense into them or get the older cat into a much better loving home. Please keep us updated.

[pomtzu]

Ugh!!! Makes no sense at all. Just cruel and heartless IMO. :mad:

I would definitely view my "friendship" with this couple in a different light if I was in your position.

[Asiel]

Ugh!!! Makes no sense at all. Just cruel and heartless IMO. :mad:

I would definitely view my "friendship" with this couple in a different light if I was in your position.

My thoughts exactly. It's sad enough when you have to do it out of necessity without doing it for no good reason.:mad:

[Pinot's Mom]

I know, this is driving me crazy. I wish I could take Puss in myself, but that might be a death sentence in itself with Pinot's status. I hope either they back off this decision or the vet refuses.:( Puss is such a sweetie...

[Medusa]

Can you tell them about Pidgie who lived to be 21 1/2? Maybe that will change their minds. To be PTS b/c of old age is just plain heartless.

[Cataholic]

There is simply no way that I would be able to NOT discuss this with them, vehemently. I would point blank make my position known. And, my friendship would be strained, at best.

Have you said anything to them???

[Catty1]

If you know who their vet is...maybe you can give him/her a heads-up and say you will look for a home for this kitty. Or offer that to these 'friends'.

Maybe there is a seniors' home looking for a resident kitty. A senior kitty!

I just don't understand their mindset. SHEESH!

[krazyaboutkatz]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot today. Maybe you should tell them to just rehome the younger cats because Puss was there first. Usually younger cats are much easier to place and will adapt to their new homes much faster too.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I am wondering...
Are the younger kitties actual kittens?
Did these people educate themselves on what it's like to add kittens to an only older cat? Did they do a proper integration? And do they fully appreciate how lucky they are to have a 19 year old cat without a lot of difficult-to-manage health issues? I'm guessing it's a no to all but the first of these questions.

This families children definitely don't need to learn that just because something is old, it gets disposed of.

I know what it's like to have people as friends with pets which they don't treat properly, or at least properly in my opinion. Of the closest families to me either by friendship or blood relations, 5 have pets and only 1 of them treats their pets even close to what I think is right. It's hard to hold your tongue. You have to weigh: Is my friendship with these people worth letting our differences in what we do with pets slide? Or is the way I think pets should be treated strong enough to strain or end a friendship? I'm not confrontational enough to say a whole lot to our friends who, in my opinion, are lacking in their pet parenting....so I pretty much let the pet thing slide and keep our friendship going. It doesn't always sit well with me to be that way, but.....

[Pinot's Mom]

Momto4:The kittens were adopted last Christmas and are just over a year old. They did not do a proper integration and are really very lackadaisical in their treatment of all the kitties. Every time I go over there I pay special attention to Puss because I know he gets no attention whatsoever and I make sure he has food and water. The cats are indoor/outdoor at will and can spend a good deal of time outside before anyone lets them in. I hate it, but, as you said, I'm not confrontational, either. I did tell the husband what I thought of his plan with Puss, and what could be causing the problems (the problem, by the way, is the young ones have started improper bathroom habits; no wonder!), but it fell on deaf ears.:(

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Ah, deaf ears...one of the worst things a person can have no matter what you are trying to enlighten them about.
Poor Puff. I will send vibes that some other solution comes up besides euthanization!

[pomtzu]

Sounds like you're up against a brick wall Maggie. What a shame that this is happening. It seems like they shouldn't have any pets at all since they pay no attention to them. I can't imagine why they would go to the "bother" of taking on 2 more, when they ignore old Puss. Poor kitty. I hope your friends don't carry out their plan to eliminate him - it just breaks my heart thinking about it. :(

[Pinot's Mom]

Ellie, you're right, they should not have cats. They regard cats as something I can't fathom. My kitties have always been family and I just don't get it. They are really warm, generous, loving people who don't think kitties need any loving or care. It just doesn't compute.:(

KAK: they will not think of rehoming the little ones.

[Indigo Bully Connection]

This is really disturbingly disgusting to me. I don't get it :confused::confused: I can't believe they're really considering doing this!

[carole]

What i don't get here is the logic behind this decision, it just does not add up,maybe they just cannot be bothered with taking care of an elderly puss and knowing that in time he will get things wrong with him and need care,but yes they are being unkind in their decision IMO, to think i do anything i possibly can to keep my ole Ash going and he is only 14 with CRF, and they cannot give this old cat the time of day.

Hopefully what goes around comes around, they will be old one day, maybe no-one will want to care for them either. GRRR...is all i can say.

Please keep trying to talk with them and see if you can make any headway, you may well be able to turn their thoughts around to not making such a decision, it is just as well Puss is none the wiser isn't it?

[aTailOf2Kitties]

sure is nice of everyone here to determine who should and shouldn't own pets:rolleyes:

[Cataholic]

sure is nice of everyone here to determine who should and shouldn't own pets:rolleyes:

Not sure I quite follow you here. We are on a pet forum. We have been told that this family intends to PTS an otherwise healthy senior cat because it is old. Really, that doesn't seem like the type of person that should have cats (or any pets). Where are you finding fault with people's reactions? You agree with this practice?

To the OP and those talking about being non-confrontational, I am curious. Are you saying that you don't say things to people when confronted with situations like this? To the OP- have you come right out and expressed your feelings on this very topic? I can't imagine not saying anything. Those animals have no voice but ours. No friendship- be it friend OR family- can mean that much to me that I can't speak out on what I see as the ills of this world.

I am true to myself, first. This has nothing to do with being confrontational (though, of course, I have no problem with that), this has to do with being true to yourself, to standing up to what you consider inhumane treatment to animals.

You say, "They are really warm, generous, loving people who don't think kitties need any loving or care. It just doesn't compute." This makes no sense. Why would you want a friendship with these type of people? If your friendship can't be traded on to teach, educate, influence others in the way they treat/view those dependent on it, what good is it?

When it comes to some things, and the humane treatment of animals is one of them, one is either in it with me, or against me.

[carole]

Cataholic does raise some valid points, i too was rather surprised at your reaction,and did not know quite what to say about it, but she has summed it up. Why would you find fault with people's reactions here?

[Pinot's Mom]

Cataholic-just to let you know, I have voiced my opinion and concern. They don't think their treatment of the kitties is out of line. In the husband's words, they have food, and a roof over their heads when they want it. He also figures he's given Puss 19 "good" years he wouldn't have had as they took him in off the street. I disagree and will try to change things if I can.

[pomtzu]

sure is nice of everyone here to determine who should and shouldn't own pets:rolleyes:

I too found this post as strange to say the least, but having been viewed as a poster that's confrontational at times, I figured I'd just leave it alone.

Thank you Cataholic for expressing what I was thinking.

[carole]

I think we should give Pinots Mom more credit here and have faith in her, i am sure she will do her best to change their minds, you can only do so much, people have different ideas, some would consider our love and care towards our pets extreme and nutty even,unfortunately not everyone feels as we all do,and what Pinots mom expressed about their feelings is more common than not.

Let us just keep hoping she can change their minds, I know she will do her very best, good luck, as i am sure you are going to need it, and bless you for trying.

[aTailOf2Kitties]

why do I find fault with this thread? Because it's nobody's business. If Pinot's Mom knows these people, she needs to deal with them herself, not spread their business on an internet forum.

Puss is their cat, not ours. Obviously if they feel they cannot give him the care he really needs then it's up to them to find him a new home or humanely PTS.

Plenty of people out there have pets that are just that...pets. They're not family members, they're not children, they're animals. As long as they receive proper vet care and some sort of attention on a regular basis, I'm not gonna judge someone for not coddling their animals. Would you rather a dog be a backyard pet, or just die in a shelter. Should "barn cats" all be killed to save them from a life outdoors?

Puss has obviously been cared for to some extent or he wouldn't have lived to his advanced age. If this family feels that Puss isn't happy any more or requires more attention than they can give him, then let them find a new home or PTS rather than let him slowly decline.

Bottom line, I refuse to "throw somebody under the bus" just because they don't care for their animals as much as I do for mine. I sure as hell ain't gonna share their business with other people who don't know them just to make myself feel better for butting in.

I'm not gonna pass judgement until I hear Puss' owners give their side of the story. If I told someone I kicked a dog and they spread it all over the internet, then everyone here would be ready to firebomb my house. Never mind that I kicked that big dog to get him to let go of the little dog he was attacking. There are 2 sides to every story and in Puss' case we've only seen one. Do you know what I'm getting at?

[Pinot's Mom]

Yes, I do understand what you're saying, and your point of different treatment of pets is why I made the original post. I have a dilemma and wanted others opinions from a place where pets are first and foremost. These people mean a great deal to me and my husband, and this hurts me. I have not spread this all over the internet, I have not used their names, I have been doing what I can to try and save the life of a kitty who has done nothing wrong except to get older. I appreciate your input, aTailof2Kitties, it's another point of view.

Thank you carole, pomtzu, Indigo Bully, momto4 and others who have written positive support; it means a lot. I will keep doing my best.

[carole]

I am glad she came back and posted about her comment, because i have to say a lot of it does make sense and i cannot argue with most of it,neither do i want to.

In Pinots Mom's defence though i have to say as she stated she has not put this on here with any bad intentions, just as she said herself for advice, there is nothing wrong with that, and we do not know these people and their identity is safe,so no harm done there.

I just hope you can find a happy solution Pinots mom that will ease your mind,and still keep your friendship in tact, i understand where you are coming from and you do have a dilemma somewhat to deal with,again all the best of luck.,here is hoping for a positive outcome.

[pomtzu]

Well Maggie - you know that I back you. I'm hoping you can convince your friends to rethink this whole thing.

[Medusa]

Perhaps if you show your friends some of the replies on this thread, they might have a change of heart. If the old cat was sick the kind thing would be to have it PTS but it isn't; it's simply old and there's no good reason that I can think of to have an old cat PTS. My Pidgie was a testament to what a quality life an old cat can live w/hardly any extra care involved. She needed meds twice a day; big deal. I hope all my Fur Posse live as long.

[lilybean]

It is such a personal decision, deciding to euthanize...But if the cat is not ill...All I can say if it were mine, I'd provide him with his own room and spend as much time in there with him as I could. Let him finish living his life as King of His Room.

YES. I totally agree. I can't imagine doing that to a cat I have had that long. :( Let him live out the end of his life in dignity if he is not ill. I'm so sad for this boy, I pray they have a change of heart or that someone can help him.

[carole]

Pinots Mom can you find out why they have chosen this option, is it because they don't want to wait until he is ill, or they cannot be bothered with him now he is old, i feel somewhat confused on their reasonings.

I could well understand if he were ill and they chose not to medicate and prolong his life, that is a very personal decision and some people believe when old age and illness strikes a pet then the best and most humane option is to euthanize,and not prolong life with meds.

This decision they seem to have made just does not really make sense to me and i cannot understand their logic,if you can explain would be helpful.

[Pinot's Mom]

Sorry, carole, didn't mean to ignore your question - I'm out of town and not checking that often.

The "reason" is that the one year olds have started going to the bathroom all over the house and for some reason they think it has something to do with the older kitty.:confused:

[carole]

Ah Yes i remember you posting that now, but thought surely there must be another reason, that is absurd, you really must try and talk with your friends, you say they are loving,caring people and good friends, so you should be able to talk freely with them about it and hopefully convince them differently,maybe their kitties have UTI's or something, i bet they never considered that might be a cause for them peeing where they should not.

Good luck with trying to change their minds, as this really is the most unfair thing i have ever heard.

[Catty1]

I think the problem is with the younger kitties...maybe THEY should have a vet checkup. I mean - what if they have their way with the older kitty and STILL have the same problem? I am thinking if you put to them the MONEY aspect - that they would then have extra vet bills, and it is more economical to get the young ones checked first, they might do that.

Considering they don't 'listen to reason', they might listen to the money/hassle of extra vet trips perspective.

[Taz_Zoee]

I think the problem is with the younger kitties...maybe THEY should have a vet checkup. I mean - what if they have their way with the older kitty and STILL have the same problem? I am thinking if you put to them the MONEY aspect - that they would then have extra vet bills, and it is more economical to get the young ones checked first, they might do that.

Considering they don't 'listen to reason', they might listen to the money/hassle of extra vet trips perspective.

This is what I was going to say! Give them suggestions on ways to eliminate the pottying issue the younger cats are having. Vet check, feliway calming spray or plug in....I can't think of any other ideas at the moment. Maybe tell them that it may not be the older cat at all that is causing this (you may have already done this). Anyone else have suggestions on what they could do in terms of the younger kitties not using the box???

[krazyaboutkatz]

You can also tell them to buy some Cat Attract Litter by Dr. Elsey which they can get at Petsmart. I know it's on the expensive side but it works. It helped me when I was also having inappropriate peeing issues. I just put some of it on top of the old litter that I was using. They may also need more litter boxes. Even though the cats are indoor/outdoor,they may not like using the bathroom outside. They should have at least 3 litter boxes in low traffic places so that they'll have some privacy. Some cats also don't like covered litter boxes. Good luck.:)

[Cataholic]

Also, keep in mind that cats DO NOT like scented litter. Their noses are so much more sensitive/powerful then ours. Imagine going into a bathroom, choking on perfume each time...
Don't know why they sell it!!!

[krazyaboutkatz]

This link has been posted before but I'll post it again here: http://www.catinfo.org/litterbox.htm. It has a lot of great information. I too use unscented litter. I can't stand the scented litters because they're too strong for me.

[Pinot's Mom]

Thank you all for your suggestions - I will see them tomorrow and update.

[Pinot's Mom]

My husband and I spent the afternoon at Puss's house. Puss, I'm sorry to say, is really now on the decline. After my discussion with the husband, the kitties were isolated, and it was determined it was actually Puss that is doing the improper bathroom habit. He is also VERY slow, and is not cleaning himself well. The younger kitties have no animosity toward Puss. There is a vet visit scheduled for all the kitties in about a week. Again, thank you all for your suggestions. I'll update after the visit.

[carole]

Well at least they have taken the time to find out what is actually happening, i guess Puss's days are numbered though by the sounds of things, if they were thinking of putting him to sleep before hand, they will feel they have more just cause now, he probably is unwell,i suppose it depends on what is wrong with Puss as to what is ahead, if he is sick they will probably choose to have Puss put to sleep, and I feel that will be their choice.and i would not question their decision,let us hope the outcome is more positive than i am thinking right now, and Puss gets a reprieve.

[Medusa]

If Puss is doing those things, he may be really sick w/a UTI and in pain. Can you take him in to the vet before a week passes? Having had only a bladder infection myself, time is of the essence and it's very painful, too.

[krazyaboutkatz]

I'm sorry to hear that Puss's health is declining.:( Hopefully it's just a UTI and can be easily treated with some antibiotics. If he's had this for quite a while it can turn into a kidney infection which would be a lot worse. Lots of prayers and positive thoughts are being sent his way. Please continue to keep us updated.

[Catty1]

Any news?

[Pinot's Mom]

I haven't gotten any news.:(
I have left a message and written on facebook, but haven't heard a response. I know they have been really occupied so they haven't had a chance to call, it's not that they are upset with me or anything. I'm trying to find out.

[mrsmagoo]

I'm having a real dilemma.

Very dear friends of ours, who have a great deal on their plate (3 kids under 9, 3 kitties, 25 chicks (as in egg producing), a bee hive, an organic garden for their catering business...) have an older kitty who we'll call Puss. He is 19 years old, showing some signs of age, but nothing serious. They want to put him down because there seem to be behavior problems in the younger kitties. Am I wrong in thinking this is cruel?


maybe puss should of been thought of first before getting any more , i have a 14 yr old cat id love a kitten but i wont get one not yet ,yes i think this is cruel and id be shocked if the vet allows this to happen poor cat :(
my cat is old and needs to go to the toilet quickly we have a litter tray now problem solved and hes happier about it as well he doesnt have to race outside anymore :)

carol

[carole]

Are there any updates, with hopefully some positive news for us?

[Pinot's Mom]

:(I regret to inform everyone that Puss has crossed over to the Bridge. He had become so aggressive towards the other kitties and was improperly peeing everywhere. I will write more later, but I knew you wanted to know.

[carole]

I thought this would be the case, thanks for letting us know, sad that Puss has gone to the RB, but it sounds like he was in renal failure to me, so probably a blessing maybe? i dunno?

[krazyaboutkatz]

:(I regret to inform everyone that Puss has crossed over to the Bridge. He had become so aggressive towards the other kitties and was improperly peeing everywhere. I will write more later, but I knew you wanted to know.
Maggie, I'm so sorry to hear this.:( RIP sweet Puss.:(

[Medusa]

How very sad indeed. RIP, dear Puss. Now you're at peace at last.

[catmandu]

Is that Poor Old Cat whos also known as Pusseidon.
Its a sad story but Pusseidons young and happy again and in Paradise with Our Awesome Angel Army!!!

[Tommiesmom]

Either the younger cats or older cats misbehave, when there are new cats/kittens that come into a household. One set is either establishing his/her place if that cat was there first, and the younger ones are trying to establish there place. Unless one of them or any are sick, don't put the cat down. There was love involved when all were obtained.:)