Itching, Scratching

[Bonny]

Last Thursday I took Baxter back to the veterinary. In August he had given him an ivomec shot & steroid shot along with front line for two months & said allergies to weeds etc. Well I am really getting frustrated. He just isn't getting any better. I had purchased Old Gold with Aloe to put on him when he itched, & gave him a serious of vinegar baths along with washing rugs & couch cover where he sleeps. I took him back to the vet on Thursday last week. He was given an ivomec shot & steroid shot thinking mites? Doc scraped of some skin scab, hair, & notice d yah his skin is reddened in areas. I mentioned lyme disease. So he drew some blood it came up negative to lymes, heart worms, etc. Baxter is still itching & we have a return visit in 7-10 day. The only thing I can think of is maybe his dog food? My other dog Missy itches some also & had been checked out with Baxter last August. She does not have the reddened skin or almost hairless areas from scratching. Our grandpuppy has stayed at our house & does not scratch & has eaten the dog food. I just can't figure this out. I guess last summer lots of dogs had allergies & were treated for it. Right now there is 24' of snow so there is no pollen in the air. Go Figure! This is driving me nuts! Baxters coat looks healthy shinny & clean. The places of itching are his flank area, ears, & tail, along with an area on his hind leg. Any in put would be appreciated.

[Queen of Poop]

My RB dog Sami developed food allergies when she was 8 years old. She could no longer eat beef. A simple change of food and all her skin issues disappeared.

[pomtzu]

It could very well be food allergies. Myndi and Sparky always had itchies - especially Myndi - and had to have a Pred shot every few month. I switched them to a grain free diet back in October, and it has made a world of difference. No more scratching and biting at themselves, Sparky's eye discharge has gone away, and their coats are in much better condition - nice and soft and silky.

What I use is Dr Harvey's Veg to Bowl - it's dehydrated veggies that you add water to, and add your own protien source like chicken, beef, eggs, etc. It's a little on the expensive side, but it's worth every penny to see how much better my pups are doing.

You can order on line and have it shipped to your house, unless you can find a pet supply store in your area that carries it. Different places on line have different prices too, so I searched until I found the cheapest.

[Bonny]

We went for a vet visit this morning. It took Baxter a good 5 days to stop a lot of his itching. There is still a spot on his leg where the hair is thin & the skin is red. Doc gave Baxter another ivomec shot & we talked nutrition. I was given some free samples with veal & rice in them. We talked about reading labels on pet food bags. The first two ingredients are the most important. It would take up to six weeks if we changed to another dog food to show any signs of change. Right now we will wait six weeks to see how the shots work. It could be something in our house he is sensitive to also. I even wondered if the laundry soap I used to wash the couch cover & quilt were affecting Baxter. I just may end up getting rid of the couch. We talked about mites in the couch. I have covered the cushions in the couch with plastic garbage bags, & wash the couch cover once a week along with the floor quilt. The couch gets vaccumed too but it is old old. At least he has stopped scratching & itching & we have something to go on now.

[micki76]

Has he been checked for Malassezia (yeast infection)? It generally presents in the areas you're describing and is usually caused by allergies. You might want to try some fish oil caps to boost the immune system and use a shampoo for yeast. We use Melasab shampoo (http://www.malasebshampoo.com/).

Here's a couple of articles on it, but you can google and find more info. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2102&aid=321 and http://www.westiemed.org/health/malassezia/ Chester's never looked as bad as the dogs in these articles, thank goodness. Just VERY red and he's unable to leave it alone. :(

My allergy dog, Chester, has had two yeast infections and the dermatologist has been the only one to figure it out both times. One vet was convinced he had mange, even though he'd been scraped for that upmteen times over the last 11 years. 30 days of oral meds and baths twice a week with the Melasab shampoo cleared it up, but it took a long time and Chester was in an e-collar for most of that time.

I seriously doubt your dog is allergic to your couch or even your laundry detergent. It's most likely either the grains or the protein source in the food, or external allergens like pollen (there is cedar in the air and other allergens even in the winter) or mold & fungus. We've had cold weather here, but Chester's been flaring for 3 weeks due to the junipers.

I wish you the best of luck!

[Bonny]

I wonder if the ivomec & Cortizone shots cover yeast infection? The cortizone is suppose to be good up to six weeks. When I farrowed sows years ago they would get a yeast infection we called it greasey pig. We offered them showers with the garden hose & once they were weaned off their babies they could go roll in the mud & the greasey pig would leave. We kept them in a clean environment but they really needed to get out in the dirt & mud to keep their skin free of infections. I went to the web sites & it seems to bother certain breeds of dogs too.

[Freedom]

If you switch to a high quality grain free food, you will see improvement in as little 3 days, may take up to a week.

Try a grain free kibble, if you don't want to go to the Veg to Bowl which Ellie/Pomzu mentioned.

Also, track down this book and give it a read:
The Whole Pet Diet, by Andi Brown.

I found it at my library. She gives so much information on which foods do what, which herbs will help. AND she includes recipes.

I am currently using the Veg to Bowl, and the Spot's Chicken Stew recipe from the book. NO issues! Itching stopped, the gunk build up in Marlin's eyes cleared up. Poor guy has lived with that for his 11 years and by switching foods, it cleared up in less than 5 days.

The veal and rice is nice, but I bet it is costly and who knows, the rice may still be an issue.

Good luck, which ever route you choose. Learning about nutrition and reading labels is just as important for our pets as it is for ourselves.

[Bea]

Try an all natural diet. So much healtier! No defiencies like commercial brands show! No skin issues ever!

[kokopup]

Koko had a similar problem and I spent a fortune on Vet bills until I decided to put her on a corn free diet, now she is no longer itching. I have found that this is a vets # 1 complaint ( and income producer) and the easiest way to solve the problem is by the owner doing a little study about pet allergies and make his/her own changes. It is a hit and miss proposition and you can try different
things without a vet. Throwing Steroids at the problem just mast symptoms and does not find the problem. IMO... Unfortunately most of our medical community takes the same approach, treat symptoms, to heck with the real problem.

[Bonny]

Our veterinary gave us a paper about the real scoop on pet foods. He talked about by products as being an inexpensive way to increase the protein content of the food. The sheet reads avoiding anything with by products in it. By products can contain feet, feathers, skin, intestines lung, brain, bone or blood.The fillers like ground corn, wheat middlings, wheat & corn glutens, sorghum etc. can cause dogs to develop allergies to these ingredients. He mainly pointed out protein as the first ingredient on the bag label with a source of carbohydrates as the second ingredient like rice or potato. At the vets office they favor Canidae/Felidae, California Natural, & EVO pet foods. I didn't get a chance to read any labels because I had Baxter with me at the time. I plan to visit the vets office to look at what they have, there are two co-ops that sell dog food. I plan to spend some time going around reading labels. I was given 5 sample bags to take home & Baxter liked the food he has never been a picky eater. The itching has stopped for now.

[MonicanHonda]

Steroids shouldn't be used, just like humans, for any amount of time. I'd honestly rather not have them used at all. My dog Remy was on them (my mother in law has her) and I was even iffy to allow her to use them on Remy... but I figured it's only once... so it won't be too bad.

I, like others, agree on a natural diet, whether it be homecooked, which takes a lot of prep time, or a raw diet. These take a lot of studying...

See Spot Live Longer by Steve Brown
Raw Food Diet
Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale
and Work Wonders by Tom Lonsdale are good books.

Well, maybe you don't believe in these two ways of feeding, or feel that you don't have enough time to read about them (once you start reading it's not as stressful or confusing as you think it would be.) So hey, you want to stay on a premade diet.

The next best diet would be dehydrated raw. The Honest Kitchen, Sojos, Ziwi Peak. But these can be very expensive for large dogs, if that is what you have.

The next, is a GOOD grain free food. Take a look at 'Food Pets Die For.' It's a VERY informative book. Having protein as your number one source isn't the only thing you should be looking for. There are many things that go into dog food that is horrible. Although, it does sound like your vet knows what it's talking about if they sell Natura products and Canidae. The Evo and Canidae Grainfree is a good one. California Naturals is for dogs with severe allergies. But it still has grains... so that may not be your best choice. But you can always try it if you suspect protein as the allergy because it has single protein sources. If you suspect it's grain, some good grain free foods consist of Evo, Orijen, Acana, Timberwold... I think I would first suspect grains too.

EDIT: Thought of a couple more grain free. I was in a rush before. Wellness Core, Solid Gold Bark at the Moon, Before Grain, and Blue Buffalo Wilderness.

[Bonny]

Baxter is a 7 year old Australian Cattle dog & weighs in at 45 pounds. We are looking at an indoor/outdoor dog. I take the dogs out everyday for a good mile to five mile walk this year snowshoeing for me with all the deep snow. The dogs find all kinds of protein in the woods & fields besides being fed their dog food. I am opting for a dog food with protein & rice. The sample doc gave us went well with Baxter. What gets me both dogs were itching & they are not related. The other dog Missy is a 2 1/2 year old Australian Shepherd. Everything came about when Baxter killed a manged raccoon. Besides that our sons black lab. rolled on the raccoon too & is around our dogs everyday & he doesn't have an itch problem. There are fox with mange & coyotes running around our area. I am going to ask about Malassezia-yeast infection. I don't know if the ivomec or steroids would take care of that. Baxter has had two steroid shots in the last 6 months. Maybe the dog food we feed both our dogs has something wrong with it? The lab eats it also when he is here. It is a process of limination & we will try the dog food next. Actually Missy is not scratching anymore & with the shots Baxter has stopped itching. There is a 6 week waiting period to see if he starts the itching again. I do feed some left overs & everything is pretty much homeraised around here. I will do some more reading & research that has been mentioned above. :)

[kokopup]

By Bonny

I am going to ask about Malassezia-yeast infection. I don't know if the ivomec or steroids would take care of that.

Yeast is a fungal infection and steroids if anything may make it worst. The topical shampoo treatment would be a shampoo like human SELSUN BLUE. or any shampoo for sebboria. If a topical treatment isn't effective then a systemic oral antifungal like Ketoconazole should be used.

Ivomec is for parasites like heartworms.

[Bonny]

I know ivomec is used to treat worms along with sucking & biting lice & mange mites. Doc drew blood from Baxter before he would give him the shots & checked for heartworms & lymes disease. The itching has stopped don't know if it is the steroids or the ivomec? Doc said the steroids would last up to six weeks. Yeast infection can be internal too. So wondered about it too? Maybe I should be giving Baxter yougart if we are talking about the same yeast infection that humans get? I know birds can get a yeast infection in their crops & yogurt can be used to get rid of the infection. Some questions to ask the veterinary for sure.

[maquignon]

Most common food allergens are corn, wheat, soy, gluten, yeast, chicken and beef. Does your food contain any of them? If so, find a food that doesn't contain any of those. I recommend Blue Buffalo Lamb and Brown Rice. It has none of them.

[Indigo Bully Connection]

Last Thursday I took Baxter back to the veterinary. In August he had given him an ivomec shot & steroid shot along with front line for two months & said allergies to weeds etc. Well I am really getting frustrated. He just isn't getting any better. I had purchased Old Gold with Aloe to put on him when he itched, & gave him a serious of vinegar baths along with washing rugs & couch cover where he sleeps. I took him back to the vet on Thursday last week. He was given an ivomec shot & steroid shot thinking mites? Doc scraped of some skin scab, hair, & notice d yah his skin is reddened in areas. I mentioned lyme disease. So he drew some blood it came up negative to lymes, heart worms, etc. Baxter is still itching & we have a return visit in 7-10 day. The only thing I can think of is maybe his dog food? My other dog Missy itches some also & had been checked out with Baxter last August. She does not have the reddened skin or almost hairless areas from scratching. Our grandpuppy has stayed at our house & does not scratch & has eaten the dog food. I just can't figure this out. I guess last summer lots of dogs had allergies & were treated for it. Right now there is 24' of snow so there is no pollen in the air. Go Figure! This is driving me nuts! Baxters coat looks healthy shinny & clean. The places of itching are his flank area, ears, & tail, along with an area on his hind leg. Any in put would be appreciated.

I'm so sorry you and baxter are going through this. IMO, you should find a new vet. Yours is just taking your money, and not helping you find a real solution to your problems....


Ivomec is in the flea and tick control already... this can cause adverse reactions when used in conjunction with Ivomec used propperly for dogs. Also, this is a product when "injectable" is really used on cattle and pigs. Ivomec is not FDA approved for this, but it is a common pest control (often used for mange mites)in dogs. It even says not for dogs on the box. When treating a dog with Ivomec it is given orally not as an injection. To "cure" your dog of parasites the Ivomec is given for several days to several months, daily. Not speratically.

It could be a food allergy in conjunction with an enviornmental allergy. The way to go about doing this the most cost effective way is to go into your vets office armed with information. I will help you as much as possible since I've been through the ringer with allergies, and i'll cut to the chase and not try to sell you on the bogus crap that doesn't work which the vet will try to push on you first.

If your dog is scratching to the point of opening his skin.... he has a secondary infection which requires antibiotics. Depending on your dogs weight.... I have a 45-50 pound dog who is put on Ciprofoxacin 500 MG... another hint for you... those "steroid shots" do not show you improvement for another 5 days or so. Antibiotics and steroids are generally what most vets will give you to TREAT the symptoms, not preparing you for your next round with allergies. Also, benadryl only serves as a sedative, and will NOT help your dogs discomfort. It is a common myth. Your vet can write you a prescription to be filled at your local pharmacy for Hydroxazine... Now, there are two different kinds of Hydroxazine... one is basically benadryl...the other actually freaking works haha The hydroxazine that you want is Pamoate.

I'm assuming your pup has an infection inside the ears which are swollen huh? Baytril is the best... You want a good wash/rinse wait fifteen minutes then administer the baytril (often times doctors will push zymox which is a crappy product). You may want to check into a medicated Shampoo like KetoChlor which will make a coating over your dogs skin and fur so that the enviornmental allergens as well as keeping any yeast from building up on his skin.


Finally, what food are you feeding? You should try out single protein sourced foods which are also grain free... COMPLETELY grain free, don't get the stuff that has oats and what not in it. Fish is the most hypoallergenic protein source for dogs, so that's a good start. Which ever food you choose to go with, stick with it for at the least 2-3 weeks to see the final outcome. If you notice inflamation coming back, switch to another single protein source. Vets will often times push their food products like Science Diet, Purina Pro Plan Ect.... don't fall for it... You're going to be paying 3 times more than you need to.

[Bonny]

It was Jan 15th Baxter went into the vet & he told me to give it 6 weeks if the itching didn't stop. The itching has stopped so far. I changed the dog food over to Nutri Source for Large Dogs. It contains lamb meal, brown rice, white rice, fish meal (a source of fish oil) oatmeal, beet pulp, flax seeds,natural flavors, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols & citric acid),dried egg product, sunflower oil, brewers yeast, with the usual supplements vitamins,etc. It does meet the nutritional levels establiashed by the Assoc of Amer. Feed control officials AAFCO Dog food nutrient profiles for all life stages if that means anything? I got the dog food at a local coop & both my dogs are eating it. Corn is the first thing that came to my mind to avoid that in their dog food. Although they will grab it out of the field when we are out walking & chew on a cob & now it is all covered over with snow so they can't do that & in April the ground will be plowed over. There is barley in the Nutri Source? There we go with a grain along with the rice. Doc mentioned potatos as a second ingredient. I didn't buy dog food from the vets but went to the coop because I know the guy that sells the dog food cares about the product he sells to people & the dogs that eat it.

The skin scratching was open in some areas before I took Baxter in it looked like scrapes from his scratching with his claws. That has healed nicely now. His ears were scabby & had sores in them at the time but not swollen. His ears look clean now. But I wonder how long will this last?

We have used the ivomec on our cattle for worms,lice, mange. So there is no version for dogs or cats in the form of ivomec? There is another veterinary I was thinking of taking Baxter to if the itching comes back. I have all my receipts with what has been done with Baxter to show him.

I have written down the meds., etc so will take that info with me if the itching returns. Thank you at least a person has something to go by.:)

[Indigo Bully Connection]

It was Jan 15th Baxter went into the vet & he told me to give it 6 weeks if the itching didn't stop. The itching has stopped so far. I changed the dog food over to Nutri Source for Large Dogs. It contains lamb meal, brown rice, white rice, fish meal (a source of fish oil) oatmeal, beet pulp, flax seeds,natural flavors, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols & citric acid),dried egg product, sunflower oil, brewers yeast, with the usual supplements vitamins,etc. It does meet the nutritional levels establiashed by the Assoc of Amer. Feed control officials AAFCO Dog food nutrient profiles for all life stages if that means anything? I got the dog food at a local coop & both my dogs are eating it. Corn is the first thing that came to my mind to avoid that in their dog food. Although they will grab it out of the field when we are out walking & chew on a cob & now it is all covered over with snow so they can't do that & in April the ground will be plowed over. There is barley in the Nutri Source? There we go with a grain along with the rice. Doc mentioned potatos as a second ingredient. I didn't buy dog food from the vets but went to the coop because I know the guy that sells the dog food cares about the product he sells to people & the dogs that eat it.

The skin scratching was open in some areas before I took Baxter in it looked like scrapes from his scratching with his claws. That has healed nicely now. His ears were scabby & had sores in them at the time but not swollen. His ears look clean now. But I wonder how long will this last?

We have used the ivomec on our cattle for worms,lice, mange. So there is no version for dogs or cats in the form of ivomec? There is another veterinary I was thinking of taking Baxter to if the itching comes back. I have all my receipts with what has been done with Baxter to show him.

I have written down the meds., etc so will take that info with me if the itching returns. Thank you at least a person has something to go by.:)


Since he had his steroid injection about 2 weeks ago, watch and monitor for any inflamation over the next week to two weeks. It takes a few days to do it's job in the body, and it takes a few weeks to leave the body. Does that make sense? The injection treats the inflamation which is probably why the scratching has subsided for now. Oh girl, I know all about the scabs on the ears and tummy. I would suggest to keep on that food until the steroids have finished running it's course through Baxters body to have a true evaluation of his progress. If Baxter is anywhere near the mess that Neela is brewers yeast and oatmeal MAY be a problem. lol I know I may sound like I'm contradiciting myself, but Rice and potatoes really shouldn't worry you, it's all of the other crud (i've learned about that through my raw trials with neela).


There is a form of Ivomec which is designated for dogs, but it is an oral administration, as well as it has a different percentage... the cattle version uses 1% and the dog percentage is .05% it's a huge difference.
Suuuper cheap heartworm/parasite preventative link hehe I've known kennel owners who have used it for decades.
http://69.39.232.66/~heartwor/

When I said the skin has opened because of a secondary infection it is due to the scratching. When an allergic dog has an infection it looks like even worse allergies to us humans with the naked eye lol.

I am realllllly surprised he didn't give you any antibiotics.

EDIT: I have probably spent close to 4,000 trying to find out what really works... If I would have known what I do today about the products out there for my dog i probably would have spent like 500.00

EDIT EDIT: lol... i understand why the vet told you to change for 6 weeks for this go around... the steriods are pumping through baxters little body and won't leave it for a few weeks to show you the results of the food.

[Indigo Bully Connection]

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s10/shana_wakenshaw/dogmeds.jpg

Here's a photo of some of the products that I have around the house. Some are good, some are not lol.

[Bonny]

Baxter did not have big scabs on his belly but the skin was red & the hair hair thin or missing. This is what was given January 6th at the vets. Heartworm & Tick panel, skin scraping, injection IM/SQ 1st GROUP, Injection IM/SQ 1st, depo medrol 0.5ml, ivomec inj. What I can understand is he was given the ivomec & steroid shot. Doc didn't think the ears were that bad, but then another Doc from the same firm was out here to treat a calf & looked at Baxters ears & told me to take him in because he didn't have anything along to treat Baxter with. Two different vets., with two different opinions from the same firm.

On January 15th Baxter had a return visit over an exam recheck & another ivomec inj., & now the six week wait along with some free food samples I was given by Doc for Baxter to try & he like the food samples. It is dog food for dogs that have allergies. I plan to stop in when I go to town this week & take a look at their dog food & price it too. There were no antibiotics handed out but then they can cause yeast infections in some cases.

I have never heard of Blue Buffalo. What part of the country or world do you live Maquignon? Once again all the supplements & crap they put into the dog food besides the basic stuff they need has to have some kind of affect on their organs. Where is Ralph Nader when you need him. :mad:

[Indigo Bully Connection]

Baxter did not have big scabs on his belly but the skin was red & the hair hair thin or missing. This is what was given January 6th at the vets. Heartworm & Tick panel, skin scraping, injection IM/SQ 1st GROUP, Injection IM/SQ 1st, depo medrol 0.5ml, ivomec inj. What I can understand is he was given the ivomec & steroid shot. Doc didn't think the ears were that bad, but then another Doc from the same firm was out here to treat a calf & looked at Baxters ears & told me to take him in because he didn't have anything along to treat Baxter with. Two different vets., with two different opinions from the same firm.

On January 15th Baxter had a return visit over an exam recheck & another ivomec inj., & now the six week wait along with some free food samples I was given by Doc for Baxter to try & he like the food samples. It is dog food for dogs that have allergies. I plan to stop in when I go to town this week & take a look at their dog food & price it too. There were no antibiotics handed out but then they can cause yeast infections in some cases.

I have never heard of Blue Buffalo. What part of the country or world do you live Maquignon? Once again all the supplements & crap they put into the dog food besides the basic stuff they need has to have some kind of affect on their organs. Where is Ralph Nader when you need him. :mad:


Blue buffalo is not the best for a hypo allergenic dog. I've noticed a couple of posts where this person is an avid fan of B.B. If the food that your vet gave you does not work out...Check out

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/allergy.html

I'm getting ready to give Wellness Core a shot since the above company isn't giving me everything i need for my healthier dogs ( I want more protein and fat intake). The wellness core has a similar ingredients list as Natural Balance, but more fat and protein which my dogs need because they are very active. You do need to take into consideration, yes, you will be spending more on dog food, but you will save a heap on vet bills, and they get to eat less too :)

I know what you meant as far as the belly... I'm trying to think of a way to describe it... uhhh... raw lol that's the best way I can describe it.

Did I read you right? Your veterinarian gave the Ivomec IM? I don't understand why your veterinarian was giving Ivomec in the first place when the skin scrapes came back negative.... and why he was giving Ivomec as a one time only treatment? Please excuse me, I talk as things float through my head lol.

I received the absolute best results as far as allergy avoidance when I was feeding raw, but because of my allergy girls issues I couldn't feed the necessary organ meats :(Raw is definitely not for someone with a weak stomach as well as someone who hasn't done a crap load of research on it.

Yes, you are right that antibiotics can cause a yeast infection IF they are taken for too long of a period, and if the dog already has an issue with yeast prior to the antibiotics it can let it over run the dog if precautions are not taken. That's why the Baytril and the ketochlor will clear that part up.

PM me with your zip code and I'll hunt down alternative places that carry these quality dog foods.

[Bonny]

Baxter was given two ivomec injections within a 10 day period. I was to watch if the itching contiuned which it did. I think that is why Doc wanted us back in 10 days. I know this much I bet Baxter doesn't have a worm in him.

Are your dogs young that they can't keep the weight on. I know my grandpuppy a black lab was so high strung we couldn't keep a pound on him & Baxter as a pup up to two years of age was so active we couldn't keep a pound on him either. Max got taken in & castorated last spring as a 4 year old. He has really put the pounds on & looks really good. He is still very very active but his dog food must be sticking to his ribs now. My poor female Missy is always battling the bulge since she had her female surgery at about 10 months of age. She is now going on 3 years. Hormone changes or lack of them really makes a difference as far as weight goes.

I do make a lot of my meals from scratch & have a garden in the summer. After 3 days if we don't eat everything the dogs get it. I don't like to waste food but there is a rule three days in the refrigerator is 3 to many. They usually get left over potatos which are good for them. I feed them left over vegetables also. I will stick with this bag of dog food for now & finish it out. They do eat less of it. It is all that supplement stuff they put into the dog food that gets me. :eek:

[Indigo Bully Connection]

Baxter was given two ivomec injections within a 10 day period. I was to watch if the itching contiuned which it did. I think that is why Doc wanted us back in 10 days. I know this much I bet Baxter doesn't have a worm in him.

Are your dogs young that they can't keep the weight on. I know my grandpuppy a black lab was so high strung we couldn't keep a pound on him & Baxter as a pup up to two years of age was so active we couldn't keep a pound on him either. Max got taken in & castorated last spring as a 4 year old. He has really put the pounds on & looks really good. He is still very very active but his dog food must be sticking to his ribs now. My poor female Missy is always battling the bulge since she had her female surgery at about 10 months of age. She is now going on 3 years. Hormone changes or lack of them really makes a difference as far as weight goes.

I do make a lot of my meals from scratch & have a garden in the summer. After 3 days if we don't eat everything the dogs get it. I don't like to waste food but there is a rule three days in the refrigerator is 3 to many. They usually get left over potatos which are good for them. I feed them left over vegetables also. I will stick with this bag of dog food for now & finish it out. They do eat less of it. It is all that supplement stuff they put into the dog food that gets me. :eek:

What supplements are you referring to? The only "unnecessary" supplement that i gave when feeding raw was Bone Meal, so she could get the calcium that she needed. I gave fish oil, plain yogurt as well as apple cidar vinegar, lard, and a multivitamin. All of those were necessary for a balanced diet because it's homemade. to get the most use of those veggies for Baxter you should purrade them. it breaks down the cell walls and makes the vegetation more absorbable.

With a quality kibble you should not have to worry about any of that.. it doesn't hurt to give the oils, apple cidar vinegar either. The apple cidar serves for a natural flea and tick preventative. that you can throw into their water bowl :) the oils help the coat and nails.

yes, the dogs that I want the higher protein and fat for are more active than the others. They never stop go go goin lol.

Keep me posted on baxter please bonny!

[MonicanHonda]

For a GOOD hypoallergenic food, I would go with California Natural or Natural Balance. CN is made by Natura, which is a very good food maker.

[Bonny]

What I meant by supplements are the supplements put into the dog food bags. You have the ingredients & when you get down further on the bags there are the added supplements is what I call them vitamins,etc. At the very bottom of the Nutri Source bag the last thing is rosemary extract for example.

Your dogs are young dogs growing like teenagers then where they burn off their food faster then they can consume it. It sounds like a lot of work but if you can put some extra pounds on your dogs it sounds good.Thank you for the advice & I have taken notes & plan to use them the next round which I hope doesn't come around. So far so good with no itching.

Thank you MonicanHonda I added the dog foods to my list of dog foods to look for & at. :)

[Bonny]

Some good news. Baxter is no long scratching or itching & his coat is nice & shiney. I changed his dog food over to Nutri Source for the last 5 weeks. I am pleased with the results. :)