My kitty just diagnosed w/ CRF - need advice & prayers

[Ladybug70]

Hi all - haven't visited this site in a long time. My heart is breaking... just found out that one of my kitties has kidney failure (CRF)... his creatinine and BUN have skyrocketed over the past week (on 12/31 it was 81, on 1/04 it was 130 creatinine - normal is ~20). He is losing weight quickly, not eating, vomiting occasionally, drinking lots of water, not urinating much, and is very lethargic. Vet has ruled out kidney infections and other ailments through testing, although we are finishing out his course of antibiotics we started last week.

I've been taking him into the vet daily for subcutaneous fluid therapy for 3 days in a row. Another trip planned tomorrow. So far, no improvement in his appetite. Doctor wants to do another blood test tomorrow to see if kidney functions are improving at all.

Have any of you dealt with similar issues with your kitties? Our sweet lil boy is only 7 years (a bit young for kidney failure) and an indoor cat. He doesn't seem like he's in pain but he's not his usual sassy self, sleeps a lot, doesn't eat, vomits every now and then (although no food in it), and just looks depressed. Have any of you found any success with fluid therapy and/or other medications? I wish we could get his appetite revved up again. I also don't want to prolong things if ongoing treatments only mask the problems.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Please send up some kitty prayers for our sweet Blackie.

- Lisa

[carole]

I am very sad to read your thread regarding your kitty Blackie, especially as he is so young.

I can only offer you my advice from my own experiences, i have an elderly kitty with CRF, and i think it may be a slightly different scenario, Blackie being younger, you would want to explore every option available to you.

I think the best people are your vets who can tell you how to best deal with this, however there are a wise lot of people here who have dealt with it too.

With my cat he is on permanent Steroids, which help the appetite amongst other things, and a pill for his heart, i cannot remember how they all work exactly, but Ash (he is the grey one in my siggy,) has surpassed his expectations from the vets so far living a further 18mths with treatment, and of course i am here daily to take care of his needs.

They do get very bad teeth, caused by kidney failure, and Ash is too old and frail for another dental, but with a young cat it may be very different, i believe if you can brush their teeth on a regular daily basis that might help, but again check with your vet, you don't want to be causing them any extra discomfort if you don't have to.

Eating is indeed a challenge every day with Ash despite his medication, you could choose a special kidney diet, if the cat will eat it, we did not do that, as he would probably not like it,I have heard that about many kitties, and really he gets whatever he will eat, and i fuss around him continually opening can after can getting him to eat, patting him and doing anything that will make him eat, i also give him special kitty milk which has the lactose removed and extra vitamins in it, i have found this a godsend on the days he won't eat well, sometimes he won't eat until late afternoon, as kidney cats often feel sick ,with upset tummy's, you may well be able to medicate for this too, it just depends on what you want for you kitty, what is recommended and really what you can afford.

Weight loss is a normal part of CRF my ash went from a healthy 6.7kg to 4.1, and he is a large stature type cat, however he has maintained that weight for some time now.

My cat is now in the later stages of CRF,and his time is limited, but i just make sure he is comfortable as he can be, and will let him go in peace when i feel the time is right, he will not be allowed to suffer in anyway.


I think the fact my ole Ash is a very hardy old boy and the fact i take really good care of him, fussing over him, bringing him water throughout the day,and medicating him has contributed to his longer survival than normal, my vets are amazed he is still with us.

As you kitty is reasonably young you will want to pursue every avenue possible and give Blackie as long and a happy life as possible.
Also my vet re-assures me that Kidney cats are not in pain, but i do believe they have discomfort with their upset tums and teeth,but it is not excessive enough to warrant ending their lives IMO.

Many here do sub-Q's and have had success with them and swear by them, i do think this is a very personal choice and should be discussed with your vet at great length, as i did with mine, and then make your decision about that, do not feel you need to do anything that you are not comfortable with doing.

I wish you well and take heart that CRF kitties do and can live for a long time given the right care. HUGS.

By the way i think Blackie is simply gorgeous, reminds me of my girl Lexie minus the spot on the chest.

[Barbara]

I am sorry to hear this. My Filou has CRF now for over 4 years- and he survives, thanks to weekly sub-q fluids. It was diagnosed first when he was 9 and now he will be 14 in a months time.
But we were lucky to diagnose it early when the urea level was not as high as it may be now.
There are excellent websites out there:
http://www.felinecrf.com/

http://www.felinecrf.org/

In both you can see what the options are. The main thing is to get Blackie over the crisis right now. His levels may go down again and then you may be able to set up a regular routine.
Filou the little fighter sends purrs to Blackie.

[Medusa]

My Puddy had CRF for approximately 6 years. She lived to be 14 but she had a host of other problems as well. She had 6 good, quality years due to daily subQ fluids administered by me (your vet can show you how; it's so much easier on your cat and your finances). Puddy even had one kidney removed and still lived quite well for another couple of years afterwards. (No, I'm not saying that this will be the case w/your cat. Puddy was born w/one shriveled kidney.)

I also injected B vitamins directly into the port in the fluid bag and it made such a difference in Puddy's energy level, mental alertness and general all around well being. Some vets say that the B vitamins don't really make a difference, my vet said that as well, but I asked him to humor me anyhow and he was surprised at what I reported to him, so think about it.

There are also appetite stimulants that you can give your cat, Prednisolone is one of them, but your vet can tell you which one will work best, especially if your cat continues to be nauseated. Gotta get that nausea under control b/c Blackie won't want to eat otherwise.

I'm sorry that this is happening but don't despair. CRF is not a death sentence if caught early and a regimen of good vet care is maintained. If you decide to give the subQ treatments yourself, it'll become so second nature after just a few times that you'll surprise yourself and it saves so much stress on Blackie and time and money to and from the vet's office. Whatever you decide, I wish you many more happy years w/Blackie. Keep the faythe. :love: And welcome back. :)

[Anikaca77]

Prays coming sorry I don't have any advice for CRF but my prays are here for you.

Melissa

[Ladybug70]

Thanks to you all for replying so quickly! I really appreciate it. I'm encouraged by your experiences and we're willing to put up a fight for our sweet Blackie.

One small victory this morning... he ate some Hill's K/D dry food... at least 10-12 pieces! First time I've seen him eat something in 2 days. Now I hope he keeps it down. At least I know he's well hydrated... he drinks water often (plus the Sub-Qs). He was 15.5 lbs (7.03 kg) and is now 13.8 lbs (6.3 kg)... he's still a big/strong boy so I'm hopeful he can pull through.

Great suggestions from you all that I will definitely discuss with my vet. I'm willing to try anything... that Blackie and my bank account can withstand. I'll keep you all posted. Keep those kitty prayers coming!! It's great to be back on this board again... such wonderful people here!

Purrs,
Lisa

[Catty1]

I was trying to find the link to some CRF boards for you last night...I am so glad Barbara posted them. Your Blackie could have a good long life yet. PT prayers for the little one, and keep us posted!

Welcome back, too! :)

[Medusa]

Thanks to you all for replying so quickly! I really appreciate it. I'm encouraged by your experiences and we're willing to put up a fight for our sweet Blackie.

One small victory this morning... he ate some Hill's K/D dry food... at least 10-12 pieces! First time I've seen him eat something in 2 days. Now I hope he keeps it down. At least I know he's well hydrated... he drinks water often (plus the Sub-Qs). He was 15.5 lbs (7.03 kg) and is now 13.8 lbs (6.3 kg)... he's still a big/strong boy so I'm hopeful he can pull through.

Great suggestions from you all that I will definitely discuss with my vet. I'm willing to try anything... that Blackie and my bank account can withstand. I'll keep you all posted. Keep those kitty prayers coming!! It's great to be back on this board again... such wonderful people here!

Purrs,
Lisa

KD comes in canned, too. My RB Puddy loved it and normally she would only eat Purina Cat Chow dry and that's it. Any extra moisture that you can get into Blackie is worth a try. Glad to read that he's still a big strong boy. :)

[Barbara]

Filou loved most Royal Canin Renal Dry. And in the beginning he liked their small pouches of wet food. Unfortunately he changes his preferences every other week.

[kb2yjx]

We have dealt with kidney cats over the years, NINE of them!!!At one point in time, I was hydrating 5 cats! The sub q fluids are the best thing you can do for Blackie. If you learn how to give the fluids, you can order fluids on line and they are much cheaper than at the vet. I just ordered from Brico. They have special rates for the west coast. Barbara gave you one of the sites that I REALLY like the crf.org, Tanya's site. Helen, the woman who runs it, is WONDERFUL!!!! I found that eating canned kidney diet was the way to go. Our Tina Peepers eats the Royal Canin kidney diet and some of their LP dry.However, there came a time when one of our cats refused to eat the special, I would let them eat what they wanted. Feeding a special diet does no good, if the cat refuses to eat it!!! Molly lived several years while eating Friskies...BUT, if they like the special diet, HOORAY!!! It sounds like you are on top of things!!!! Will keep Blackie and you in my prayers, and a candle, too!!!
Good luck....Sandra

[kb2yjx]

An addition: I order my sq supplies, fluids, needles, and IV lines from Brico Medical Supplies. Here is their number: 1-866-589-0971....Also, the BEST item they sell, is an IV POLE!!! No more hanging the bag over the cabinet with a hanger.....Sandra

[Freedom]

My Mr. Amber Cat developed this when he was 8 years of age. Amber was also on sub q fluids. I did them here at home myself. I used a loop of sturdy string, over the hinge of a kitchen cabinet, and an S hook. That stayed in place. Time for the treatment, I'd hang the fluid bag from the S hook, and he was up on the counter top, a nice reach for me.

Amber had undiagnosed over active thyroid for some time, which lead to the kidney failure. So he was quite far along in the illnesses. We started the fluids at every other day; by the end of 6 months he was at 3 times per day. When he needed it 4 times per day, he was not happy in between treatments any longer it was just too much and I let him go to RB. It was very difficult, my first cat.

Earlier in the process, in between gtreatments he was his usual self.

I think he did have steroid pills too; hard to remember, he's been gone 8 years now.

Prayers from RI for you and your Blackie.

[Ladybug70]

Blackie has gotten some of his pep back in the last 15-16 hours! Last night and this morning he has shown signs of the lovable, sassy cat we know. Purring, "chirping", vigorous use of the scratching post, and enthusiastically "patrolling" our patio during his daily "outdoor time" (what he lives for).

And jackpot on the food situation! I found what Blackie will eat right now... baby food (per vet's recommendation)! Between last night and this morning, he's eaten a small jar. He licked the plate clean! I agree that if they won't eat the special diet food then you have to find what they will eat (he turns up his nose at the K/D kibble and soft food right now). So we gotta get that energy up! Vet also gave me the kitty version of "pedialite" yesterday... a powder to put in his water to help him get some nutrients.

My stomach is in knots as we'll get the results of his 3rd blood test today from the vet. Blackie went to the vet yesterday for his 4th daily Sub-Q and got more blood drawn. We're hoping that the creatinine and BUN numbers have stabilized.

Please keep your fingers and paws crossed for us!! I'm trying not to get too excited about the latest improvements as I know this will be a rollercoaster ride. I'm just so happy to see that little "spark" in his eyes again. I'll give you an update later today. Thanks again for all the great information and kitty prayers you've provided so far... our family is soooo grateful.

Purrs,
Lisa

[Medusa]

Hey, that's great news! My Puddy was on baby food for a while, too. As my vet said and you just concurred, if they won't eat the special diet food, it won't do any good, now will it? ;) Here's praying that Blackie continues to improve. Keep the faythe. :love:

[kb2yjx]

Lisa, Baby Food is used at our house, too!!! It is the ULTIMATE bribe food and they LOVE it!!! To get them off it, I have mixed the baby food with the food they are to eat. It was good to read the Blackie licked the plate clean!!!! Sandra

[Ladybug70]

So we got some mixed news yesterday from the vet. Blood results show that his creatinine and BUN are still WAY too high... but the numbers have stabilized and the creatinine has actually dropped ever so slightly (creatinine went from 11.4 to 9.7, BUN is still 156 - ouch!). Not the best news but Blackie is still showing signs of increased energy and an interest in eating. He's loving the baby food. I also got him some kitten milk that he seems to like and some alaskan salmon fancy feast "appetizers" (LOL)... but they are juicy and moist and he makes an attempt to eat a small portion (or at least lick up all the gravy). :) I just try to put something under his nose every 2 hours. The best news of all is that he hasn't vomited since Thursday morning!

We took him in to the vet yesterday for another fluid treatment (5th day in a row) and the doctor commented that Blackie looked like he felt a bit better. Since he won't get any fluids over the weekend, we're watching him carefully and still encouraging eating/drinking. We've let him out on our patio and he's loving it... even tried to escape over our patio wall (I don't blame him after all he's been through this week). ;) We also got out the laser toy for some mild playing and he really perked up! Just trying to keep him stimulated and happy.

Please keep kitty prayers going over the weekend as he won't get sub-Qs until Monday. So far so good.

Thanks again for all your comments, suggestions and well wishes!

Purrs,
Lisa

[Medusa]

Do you think you're now in a place where you can give Blackie the subQ treatments yourself? His creatinine is still very high and the fluids might make a difference. After my Puddy had a treatment, she always perked up and when she was at her worst, I was aggressive w/the treatments and administered them sometimes twice a day. Whatever you decide, I'm glad that Blackie is showing signs of improvement no matter what his levels are. Keep it up, buddy! :love:

[kb2yjx]

Paws and hands folded in prayer that your boy continues to EAT and have a good weekend!! I attached a photo of Miss BooBoo Kitty getting her sub q fluids with her private duty nurse, Nicholas, watching. Boo went to the Bridge at the age of 16 in 2004 and Nicholas in 2007, Boo was the first of my 9 kidney cats. She was a patient and kind teacher. I can never thank her enough!! Sandra

[Ladybug70]

What an adorable picture of Boo with Nicholas! :love:

Mary, the thought of doing the sub-Qs myself really scares me. I've been reading a lot online about how it's done. It seems daunting and time-consuming, but I'm also reassured that it gets easier to administer. If Blackie can only remain stabilized through daily sub-Qs, I'm concerned about whether that treatment will be sustainable for us (time and money wise). Last week was the exception and I was able to take some time off each day from work. Otherwise, both my fiancee and I work full-time and can't be home during the day to check on Blackie to make sure he's eating or give additional sub-Qs. I really want to be willing to do anything (that Blackie will allow) to keep him going. Trying to take it one day a time for now... the "what ifs" scare me right now. :(

[kb2yjx]

Please be reassured that giving the fluids at home by yourself is not as bad as you may think!!! I taught my husband how to do it! Also, it will save you $$. You can give the fluids in the anytime during waking hours. As far as time goes, I can run 100cc's in under five minutes or less, since it is given sub q(under the skin), you do not have to worry about blowing a vein, and if the cat gets fussy, that is a good thing. I warm the IV bag in warm water so it will be not a shock when it goes into the cat, have the cat on a soft cushion, and have nice soothing music on, they all seem to have liked Bach or Mozart....Once you get Balckie stable, things will be OK. I have had to give fluids every other day, daily, or like now with Tina Peepers, only three times a week....things will work out....hang in there. Please, if you have the time, go to Tanya's CRF site, I think cfr.org. Excellent advice is there....

[Ladybug70]

Hi,

For those of you have performed sub-Qs, can you give me an idea of how much it costs you on a monthly basis to do it at home (fluids, supplies, shipping, etc). Assuming sub-Qs 3x/week (200cc)? 5x/week? Daily? I'm trying to compare it to what the vet charges.

Also, did you buy directly from the vet or via medical supply company? Also, how did you handle disposing of medical waste (needles)? Thanks for your help.

By the way, Blackie is still hanging in there. Not great , but not bad either. Mild appetite, no more vomiting, and a little more energy. Still not his normal self (may never be). We're just taking it a day at a time. We're trying 3 sub-Qs this week with a blood test on Friday. Will meet next Monday with vet to review results and discuss next steps/options for long-term care. Keep those kitty prayers coming!

Purrs,
Lisa

[Medusa]

Hi,

For those of you have performed sub-Qs, can you give me an idea of how much it costs you on a monthly basis to do it at home (fluids, supplies, shipping, etc). Assuming sub-Qs 3x/week (200cc)? 5x/week? Daily? I'm trying to compare it to what the vet charges.

Also, did you buy directly from the vet or via medical supply company? Also, how did you handle disposing of medical waste (needles)? Thanks for your help.

By the way, Blackie is still hanging in there. Not great , but not bad either. Mild appetite, no more vomiting, and a little more energy. Still not his normal self (may never be). We're just taking it a day at a time. We're trying 3 sub-Qs this week with a blood test on Friday. Will meet next Monday with vet to review results and discuss next steps/options for long-term care. Keep those kitty prayers coming!

Purrs,
Lisa

I pay $10 a bag and they give me a bunch of heavy gauge #18 needles for $1 (b/c the treatment goes fast, usually in 5 min. or less; a lighter gauge needle might take up to half an hour for the treatment.) The lines are $2 each. Compare that to $10 for the treatment itself; I wasn't charged for the office visit, and you can see the savings. The vet I go to now charges $12 a bag and he's expensive so I know that if I had them give the treatments, I'd be charged for the treatment, the supplies and the office visit, too.

Puddy was getting 150 cc. a day so a bag lasted approximately a week. I also injected the B vitamins into the port in the bag but my vet gave it to me at no charge, so I don't know what that cost would be. In the beginning, Puddy was getting 2 treatments a day, though; then it came down to one a day, then twice a week, then once a week and she was even off the treatments for a while.

As for disposal, I kept a separate bag just for the discarded items. The needles are recapped so there's no danger of sticking anyone.

There are a few here on PT who buy their supplies online b/c it's less expensive but my local vet is less than 10 minutes away so I just go there. Hope this helps.

Glad to hear that Blackie is doing a little better. Keep it up! :)

[kb2yjx]

I just received an order of 12 1000 cc bags of Lactated Ringers solution, 6 IV lines. The cost(for the East coast delivery)was $65 and change. I am ahead on needles. I use Terumo needles 18 gauge 1 inch. Please try the Brico site for the rated to your area!!! They have all the prices for the IV bags, IV lines, needles, sharp boxes...etc....I will get the site for you!!

[kb2yjx]

www.bricomedicalsupplies.com Then go to the CRF section.....

[Ladybug70]

Thanks so much, Mary and Sandra. How often do you go through the IV lines? Sandra, you mentioned you ordered 6... how long does that last you? Just trying to figure out what the monthly cost would be for fluid (200 ccs 3-4x/week), needles, IV lines, etc. Thanks again.

My vet charges $20 fluid and $30 to administer it. I'm usually spending almost $60 per visit. To maintain 3x/week with occasional vet exams would be $800/month. Not doable!

Another question... with you administering the fluids at home, how often do you visit the vet for check-ups and blood tests to check kidney function?

Thanks... so sorry for the questions... just trying to get all information before I sit down with the vet in a few days.

Purrs,
Lisa

P.S. Blackie has been doing great in the last 24 hours. Lots of energy, eating KIBBLE (yes, kibble!), and being very affectionate...including his trademarked "murring" - term I use for his "musical purring"....kind of a cross between a sing-songy meow and purring. :) Truly music to my ears.

[Medusa]

Thanks so much, Mary and Sandra. How often do you go through the IV lines? Sandra, you mentioned you ordered 6... how long does that last you? Just trying to figure out what the monthly cost would be for fluid (200 ccs 3-4x/week), needles, IV lines, etc. Thanks again.

My vet charges $20 fluid and $30 to administer it. I'm usually spending almost $60 per visit. To maintain 3x/week with occasional vet exams would be $800/month. Not doable!

Another question... with you administering the fluids at home, how often do you visit the vet for check-ups and blood tests to check kidney function?

Thanks... so sorry for the questions... just trying to get all information before I sit down with the vet in a few days.

Purrs,
Lisa

P.S. Blackie has been doing great in the last 24 hours. Lots of energy, eating KIBBLE (yes, kibble!), and being very affectionate...including his trademarked "murring" - term I use for his "musical purring"....kind of a cross between a sing-songy meow and purring. :) Truly music to my ears.

Don't reuse the lines; one line per bag. Don't reuse the needles either, not just for sanitary reasons but also b/c it dulls the needles and will cause Blackie unnecessary pain. A fresh needle for each treatment, a fresh line for each bag.

As for vet visits, I leave that up to my vet. I could tell when Puddy needed to go in b/c her subQ's weren't perking her up. Usually after a treatment, she felt much better and was actually peppy at times. When she wasn't, I was on the phone to my vet.

You're spending a lot of money right now but that will decrease significantly once you start administering the subQ's yourself. Your vet or a vet tech will show you how. I'll say in advance that you'll more than likely screw it up the first couple of times. I sure did. My vet is 45 min. away but my local vet is less than 10 min. away and I called him crying b/c I not only couldn't get the needle in right, I poked myself in the thumb so hard that it turned blue. LOL He said 'Come in right now and I'll take my time w/you to show you how". Maybe I shouldn't have told you this but I just want you to know that it rarely goes smoothly right away. You'll be nervous but once you get over the initial nervousness, Blackie will relax and so will you and it will become second nature to you.

So glad to read that dear Blackie is doing better. Now that's the kind of report I like to hear! Never worry about asking questions. That's what this site is all about. I've learned so much on here that I'm amazed. :love:

[Ladybug70]

Thanks for the honest feedback, Mary. I know it won't be easy to do sub-Qs at first (and I'm a stress case to begin with - LOL).

So, I think I understand with the equipment/supplies: assuming I administer 200cc every other day, I'd probably go through one 1000cc bag, one IV line and 5 needles every 1 1/2 weeks... or 3 bags, 3 IV lines and 15 needles per month. Or double that if I have to go to daily injections.

I'll definitely price compare between purchasing through the vet vs Brico site (but looks like Brico is really reasonable - ~$100-$200/month w/ shipping!).

[kb2yjx]

I agree with Mary with the use of the needles!!! I keep the IV line for a month. I think you will find Brico very reasonable evne for the West Coast!! And Hugh is a very nice guy, please feel free to use my name as the one who gave your their info: Sandra, Flemington NJ. There are about 100 needles per box, which costs about $6.00+ change. As far as the vet goes, I watch the cat carefully, note eating, output, and behavior. If there is a significant change, I will call the vet...OR if the cat is going in for a vet visit(q six months) then bloodwork gets done. Please do not get stressed, you will see that once you get a handle on things, you will be a pro!!!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

LadyBug70, I hope your kitty will do well even with the CRF.

I think there is a Yahoo support group for CRF kitties. I have an on-line friend who helped her cat, who was 15 when diagnosed with CRF, live 3 decent quality years despite the diagnosis. She used special diet and meds, then started SubQ fluids for the last year or so.

[Ladybug70]

Hi all-

Just wanted to give an updated on our sweet Blackie. It's now been 3 weeks since he was diagnosed with CRF. We've been doing aggressive fluid therapy at the vet clinic but tapered back to 3x/week last week and this week.

We had another blood test this past Monday and since Blackie's overall behavior/symptoms have greatly improved over past 2 weeks, we were hopeful for better numbers. Unfortunately, the results are worse. His BUN, creatinine, potassium and phosphorus numbers are alarmingly high. So it's really amazing to see Blackie doing so well considering the numbers! He is alert, eating, washing himself, playing, cuddling, etc. and no vomiting in 2 weeks!

Given Blackie's strong will to fight the odds, our vet is recommending we ignore the blood results going forward and just continue with sub-Qs until Blackie tells us otherwise. The vet feels sub-Qs 2-3x/week should keep him stable for now. The vet is very supportive of us doing the sub-Qs on our own.

So, we are now taking the step to now learn how to do sub-Qs ourselves. The vet and his wonderful staff gave me my first lesson with Blackie at the clinic yesterday. I watched carefully... fortunately, Blackie seems to be an excellent patient and just sits quietly (with his head tucked into my stomach). Even the staff commented at how good he always is. Tomorrow, my fiancee will join me and we'll get another sub-Q lesson. This time I'll be handling the needle with the vet's supervision.

Wish me luck! :rolleyes:

Thanks for everyone's support and encouragement. I'm sure I'll need more of it once we start doing this at home... but just trying to take it a day at a time and not get too stressed about it.

Purrs,
Lisa

[kb2yjx]

You will be a pro in no time giving sub q, especially if Blackie is a good as you say!!!!!!!!

[Medusa]

Yes, you'll handle it just fine, no worries. It'll be so much better for Blackie and thus for you. AND for your finances. :)

[Ladybug70]

Well, I did it! I was able to successfully administer sub-Qs today for the first time. The vet assistant at the clinic was amazing (the whole staff has been so great to us over the last 3 weeks). They let me set everything up from start to finish, and talked me through it all. I thought I would hesitate when pushing in the needle but I felt so calm and confident with their help. Everything went perfectly. Blackie was just amazing. He just sat there and purred. My fiancee, David, helped me hold him and memorized all the steps in the procedure (thank goodness cuz I was only focused on THE NEEDLE part). :eek: 10 minutes and 200 CCs later...yay! Blackie was so calm and was in a great mood when we got home. It was David's first time watching sub-Qs and he was amazed by how simple/fast the whole procedure was and feels confident he can do it too.

The vet sent us home with 2 weeks' worth of fluid, IV lines and needles. Only cost me $45 (including today's supervised lesson)...compared to $60 PER VISIT. Wow - should only be a $100/monthly cost. Even if we have to go to daily sub-Qs at some point, ~$200/month... totally manageable... and worth it for our fur-baby. I'll just stop by every 2 weeks (they're 2 blocks from my house - so convenient!) to get a new supply and drop off the used needles. We're going to set up everything on a table in our guest bedroom and make it comfortable/cozy for Blackie. Our first solo sub-Q will be Sunday night or Monday morning. Wish us luck!

Thanks again for all your encouragement! If it wasn't for you all, I'm not sure I would have had the confidence to even try this option. Thank you for helping Blackie.

Purrs,
Lisa

[Medusa]

We all knew you could do it! :D

[kb2yjx]

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!! I am just concerned about giving 200 cc's. That happened with Boo, the fluids flushed out all the " good " bugs in her bladder, and she developed a UTI. How often are you giving 200cc's?

[Ladybug70]

We've been doing 200 CCs every 2-3 days for the past 2 1/2 weeks. He's a bigger boy... ~14 pounds.

[Ladybug70]

So, I knew I spoke too soon! The true test is being able to administer the sub-Qs at home (as you all warned). We've failed twice. Try #2 was tonight and it was worse than Sunday. Ironically, I have no problem putting the needle in, but Blackie just doesn't want to sit still. He's so well-behaved at the vet, but at home he's more rambunctious. We even tried putting some of his favorite food on a little plate in front of him to distract him. That helped for about 30 seconds and then he bolted... with a needle spraying fluids everywhere.

Any suggestions on how to keep the cat calm... or at least sitting still? We have everything set up in the guest room. Door is shut (so his brother won't come in). It's quiet and we have a nice table with lots of soft blankets that he likes. But he's just not having it.

I'm pretty frustrated. I'm panicked that if we don't get the fluids in very soon, I'll have to make a last-minute (and costly) trip to the vet tomorrow morning to have the fluids injected for us.

Any suggestions/tricks that have worked for you? Thanks so much!

Purrs,
Lisa

[krazyaboutkatz]

I'm sorry to hear this.:( I've been following this thread but haven't replied until now. When I've done this in the past and I was always by myself, I wrapped my cat in a towel and I put them in my small bathroom so they couldn't run away. I hung the IV bag over the bathroom door and I would then position my cat between my legs. Since I was by myself this was my only option. Hopefully you'll be able to work something out so that your cat will stay still long enough to have his fluids. Good luck.:)

Another option might be to buy a cat sack that you can zip the cat in and then you could just unzip the top part of the way to give him the fluids. I know that Drs. Fosters & Smith sells klaw kontrol bags which can be used to help medicate or trim a cats nails. I have a few of these. Some vet offices may even sell something similar. Here's a link: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3159. Here's another link to the cat sack: http://www.fourflags.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.3950/.f.

[Medusa]

I had to give my Boo subQ's for a while and he just refused to sit down. It's tough even inserting the needle when he's standing but I managed. When Pidgie would fight me, I gently took her front legs and stretched them out and I pushed down on her back so that she could see how I wanted her to sit that usually did the trick. All the while I was softly talking to her and telling her that it was ok. Puddy put up a real fight in the beginning but I guess when she saw that I wasn't giving up, she relented and after a while, she just accepted it. Hope this helps. :love:

[Ladybug70]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to take Blackie into the vet this morning to get fluids... gives us all a break from the "trauma" and hopefully he'll be ready to cooperate on Friday at home. He's not angry or violent - just strong, wriggly, and uncooperative.... my little ADHD cat. I will try your suggestions but want the kitty "straightjacket" to be the last resort... I fear he may get hostile with it on. Looking on the bright side, at least he's got lots of energy and spunk to break free! He must be feeling better. ;)

Thanks again. Any other tips welcomed.

Purrs,
Lisa

[kb2yjx]

Do not be discouraged!!! Spunky was my fighter!!!! Be sure to warm up the fluids, so it is not such a shock to Blackie when it goes in. Quiet music, Mozart or Bach. Boo would sit up, too, whenI gave her fluids, like Mary said, it is a bit more difficult to get the needle in, but if that is the way the cat wants it, OK. When I had to get the needle in Spunky, a WONDERFUL therapy cat/ horrible sub q cat, I would give him warmed chicken baby food with some cut up cheese. As soon as he was eating the mix, in with the needle, and wide open the IV control. Maybe you could give 100cc's instead of 200. It would go in much faster, and maybe Blackie would do better with that....GOOD LUCK!!! HANG IN THERE, all the sub q people have had problems, too! You will be able to do it!!! Sandra

[Killer Kitten]

You can also try using a cat bag. You can purchase them online, for your cat I'd recommend the large size. Just fasten the velcro around his neck, then tuck him into the bag and zip it up. Then just unzip at the spot you want to pop the fluids in. Generally even the most uncooperative cats give up once they're in the bag, they know they're good and caught. Lots of petting and praise while he's in the bag and offer his favorite treat.

If you can't find a proper cat bag you can improvise with a pillow case. And switch to 18g needles if you're not already using them, the fluids fly in much faster. Good luck with him.

Kimm

[Ladybug70]

Thanks again for the additional responses and encouragement. Good stuff! We are warming up the fluids beforehand. Also using 18-gauge needles. Thought we might need 20-gauge (to make it easier for us to push in)... but aren't having any problems with the 18-gauge and Blackie doesn't even flinch when needle is inserted. He just doesn't want to sit still long enough. Blackie loves the chicken baby food too. A friend of mine at work suggested using a soft cat carrier (with zipper top) as a "friendlier" version of the cat bag. Gives him some confinement without binding his legs.... but the cat bag may just do the trick for our feisty Blackie. As I'm sitting her typing this, he's going NUTS with the laser toy... and tackling his brother. Yep, he's definitely feeling better. :love::love:

Thanks again.

Purrs,
Lisa

[kb2yjx]

Blackie wants you to work it out and figure out what will be best for HIM!!! Keep the faith, you will be just fine!!! The 18 gauge needle has a larger bore, and the fluid will go in faster. At one time, I had a very petite girl, Molly Meu. The vet gave me 23 gauge needles and it took FOREVER for the 100cc's to go in. Molly, who had a great deal of patience, got impatient with the fluids that session. Next day, we were back to the 18 gauge needle!!
This is a photo of our Molly. She left for the Bridge 2/18/08. Her kidney disease was doing well, liver cancer was why she died....she ADORED my husband and was rescued from the VA hospital where I worked in 1994....such a special little girl....

[Ladybug70]

What a precious picture of Molly!

Well, David and I tried the sub-Qs at home again yesterday. We actually role-played first (without the cat) so we knew exactly what each of us was going to do. We also tried a slightly different set-up with the table, etc. Blackie could still sense something was up (it's hard to fake out a cat when you're stressed)... but we managed to do much better than last Tuesday's fiasco. We got him on the table but he just wouldn't lie down. He was sitting still, so I inserted the needle anyway but it meant the drip was slower than normal. We only got through 100 cc's before Blackie was D-O-N-E. Lots of growling and struggling, but David did a great job holding him down and "trying" to keep him calm. I think if the drip was running at normal rate, we would have gotten the 200 cc's in during the 3-4 minutes we had Blackie. I'm hopeful that next time we'll get him in a better position and can get the full dose in. WHEW - small victory... but we'll take it! :p

Purrs,
Lisa

[Barbara]

I know what you are talking about. Filou gets his fluids at the vet's only- for 4,5 years now every week. He is a very energetic wiggle worm but at the vet's he is a little bit intimidated which helps.
But even there once in a while he insists on pulling the syringe out.
He is good these days- active and naughty. So it's all worth while.
Good luck for Blacky- that he may be a fighter and survivor like Filou.

[TommyCat]

Hi,
I was reading your thread on giving fluids to Blackie. I had to give fluids to my precious Siamese Tommy kitty who crossed the RB in 2008. He had intestinal cancer and also some renal disease but not severe renal. He also got impatient with me, as I made some mistakes with getting the fluid into him until I got the hang of it. What I did was give him the fluids wherever he was resting. He had a favorite chair right by my patio window where he loved to sunbathe. I put a nail in the wall and hung the bag there and gave him the fluids. This may not be easy or work for you. I live in an apartment, so it was easy to just pound a nail in the wall. I know it's not easy. More than a few times I felt like driving to the Vet and having them do it, but he would get so upset at the Vet and would hiss and growl and fight them that I hated to put him thru it. Good luck to you and your precious Blackie.

[Ladybug70]

Two more sub-Q treatments under our belt since my last post... and it's starting to get better. David and I are both confident in the whole process... and clearly know what each of our roles is. Blackie is still a fighter but he seems to be giving in a little bit and "sitting" long enough for us to finish. The last couple of times he cooperated long enough for only 150 ccs in... but today we got the full 200 ccs in! Afterwards, he's resilient, active and in a good mood... especially when we give him his favorite wet food. Thank goodness!

Overall, Blackie is doing great...lots of energy and eating well (he seems to have put a little weight back on) and his coat is shiny again. We go back to the vet in 2 weeks for a monthly blood panel.

Thanks for all your encouraging words and support! Couldn't have done it without you.

Purrs,
Lisa

[Catty1]

Wonderful! We knew you could do it! :D Sounds like all of you, especially Blackie, are getting the routine down.:)

Please give Blackie some tummy rubs for me. :love:

[katladyd]

This post made me very happy. I hope Blackie just gets better and better!:love:

[kb2yjx]

What great news!!! Knew you could do it!!!! YEA!!! Sandra

[Medusa]

See there? Just a little more confidence and practice and voila! Good for you! :)

[Ladybug70]

Hi there -

Just an update for you all! Blackie had his one-month follow-up exam today with blood panel. I'm happy to report that Blackie is... according to our vet... truly a "miracle kitty." His BUN and creatinine numbers have dropped significantly... to a more acceptable, almost NORMAL level. Numbers are now 39 and 2.15, - originally 138 and 11.3. WOW! He's also gained 1 pound! I'm crying tears of joy tonight. We'll go back in a month to monitor, but we're off the Sub-Qs now (hallelujah!). We had tapered off to once a week recently as that was all our feisty Blackie would allow (he is STRONG)... and we saw no negative effects from it. So, we're off the fluids completely and will monitor accordingly. We'll just keep up with the moist and healthy diet. He's doing so well... back to his old self.

We're keeping our fingers crossed that he holds strong for many months/years to come. Thanks to you all for your great encouragement and advice.

Purrs,
Lisa

[katladyd]

Hooray for Blackie! And you.:)

[krazyaboutkatz]

This is wonderful news!!!:D I hope that he'll be happy and healthy for many more years to come.:)

[Medusa]

That's great news all 'round! :D

[Barbara]

Isn't it wonderful:D
This development is not so surprising in the beginning of renal failure. However he will need regular bloodwork to see how the levels develop. But anyway- his life span is now years to come :)

[carole]

I am very happy for you and Blackie, may his good health continue.

[Ladybug70]

Hey there -

UPDATE: One month later - Blackie's blood results are still good! BUN and Creatinine are still "high normal" but haven't changed in past month and are in acceptable range. Vet wants us to keep him on his special diet, but we don't have to resume SubQs (he's been off them for over a month and doing great - thank goodness!). Next blood panel not due until July! Yay! In meantime, his teeth/gums need some work, big time! So we'll get him in next month for some cleaning so that infection doesn't spread. Poor guy never catches a break. ;-)

Thanks again for all your advice and support over the last few months.

Purrs,
Lisa

[kb2yjx]

Lisa, what great news!! May it continue!!