Ms. Pelosi, Meet A,B,C,D,E,F,G and H!

[RICHARD]

My state senator, the esteemed Nancy Pelosi, and Speaker of the House -commented about contraception and how it would effect the economy if 'unwanted' babies were never to be concieved.

Apparently my Senator thinks that if these children were not born, money could be saved -No medical care, school, food and other essentials!

What a wonderful idea, Maybe she can 'head them off at the pass' and promote abortion too?


Ms Speaker? I would ask you to recognize the woman who delivered the 8 babies, AT ONE TIME NO LESS, at the Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Facility yesterday!

I am sure you can draft up some kind of bill or legislation honoring this feat and the woman who pulled it off! (I am counting on you to do the flip flop kind of thing that all politicians do all the time!)

--------------------------

These are the kind of stories that happen all the time, time being the key word. Politicians make really dumb statements, then have something like this happen in THEIR back yards.


Unless these parents have megabucks, these kids will become a sideshow media circus- Jon and Kate? YOUR 15 MINUTES ARE DONE!

Companies will fall all over themselves to court, promote and make these poor kids a media circus. They will get a bus, 4 washers and dryers, Pampers until mom potty trains the lot of them.

The docs will walk the halls of the hospital basking in their 15 minutes until some one pulls 9 outta the hat!:eek:;):mad:

Incredible!:confused::rolleyes:

[kuhio98]

I couldn't believe my ears when I saw Ms. Pelosi's interview. Yes, we all know that the more children you have, the more costly it is.

What's next? A one child policy like China? :eek:

[RICHARD]

I couldn't believe my ears when I saw Ms. Pelosi's interview. Yes, we all know that the more children you have, the more costly it is.

What's next? A one child policy like China? :eek:

She has no concept of life or being able to afford kids-remember, she asked for a bigger airplane to fly her family back and forth from Cah lee fuh nee ah to D.C..

I do not advocate any kind of fertility drugs or having more that four kids at one time. I have a problem with people wanting a 'litter' and putting the babies thru extended periods of hospitilization. Some parents go for the multiples, then should one of more dies, they have this giant pity party and we are supposed to feel badly for them- The forced the issue and it's really sad that thise kids have to die over a parents stupidity.

I am only talking about 6 or more births at once and have already have discussed the parents who do the one or two in-vitro pregnancy. This gal obviously did the fertility thing and I feel that that's just wrong.

[Catty1]

I think the "multiples" do result from fertility drugs, but the parents don't plan for huge multiple births!

I suspect these news stories are news because they are such large numbers.

Most parents likely have the one or two they wanted, or sadly - none at all, in spite of the expense and efforts.

[RICHARD]

The parents are the the nutcases that will do anything for kids.
The woman gets pregnant, puts the kids and herself into danger by going on with the births, Should one or two not survive, they chalk it up to divine intervention, should all survive they chalk it up to divine intervention and never look back.

The last two days there was the story of the quints that were born 13 years ago and the parents who's kids were killed in an auto accident, then decided to 'replace' them with a set of triplets.


What a freak show.:rolleyes:

[Catty1]

Those 'nutcases' are driven by a primal desire to have children that is beyond what I can understand; it's what is at the root of a species to preserve itself.

Along with love, hope, despair and even love.

Not a place to expect cold logic and rational thinking. It may come from the doctors - but will not be heeded by the parents. It may be their only chance to have kids.

[rosethecopycat]

My state senator, the esteemed Nancy Pelosi, and Speaker of the House -commented about contraception and how it would effect the economy if 'unwanted' babies were never to be concieved.

Apparently my Senator thinks that if these children were not born, money could be saved -No medical care, school, food and other essentials!

What a wonderful idea, Maybe she can 'head them off at the pass' and promote abortion too?


Ms Speaker? I would ask you to recognize the woman who delivered the 8 babies, AT ONE TIME NO LESS, at the Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Facility yesterday!

I am sure you can draft up some kind of bill or legislation honoring this feat and the woman who pulled it off! (I am counting on you to do the flip flop kind of thing that all politicians do all the time!)

--------------------------

These are the kind of stories that happen all the time, time being the key word. Politicians make really dumb statements, then have something like this happen in THEIR back yards.


Unless these parents have megabucks, these kids will become a sideshow media circus- Jon and Kate? YOUR 15 MINUTES ARE DONE!

Companies will fall all over themselves to court, promote and make these poor kids a media circus. They will get a bus, 4 washers and dryers, Pampers until mom potty trains the lot of them.

The docs will walk the halls of the hospital basking in their 15 minutes until some one pulls 9 outta the hat!:eek:;):mad:

Incredible!:confused::rolleyes:

She can have another 8 in nine months, correct?

[RICHARD]

She can have another 8 in nine months, correct?


LOL,

With six you get eggrolls.:rolleyes:

Yes she can. And it's possible that she would- There was an interesting story about what the docs can suggest in this instance. The diff with invitro and fertility drugs is that with In vitro the doc will implant fetilized eggs. With drugs the ovaries are stimulated to release eggs.


Again, I was working on the same floor as the NICU and seeing preemies struggle to live, it's a real shame that people place children in such dire circumstances.

[phesina]

I heard on the news today that she is a single mother and already has something like 5 or 6 other kids. ..?

[Hellow]

I can understand people /adopting/ or /fostering/ that many kids - not giving birth to that many yourself.

[RICHARD]

She had 6 kids, two are twins.


I just cannot believe it.

--------

Rose,
If she has more kids she belongs in a museum.

[Cataholic]

I think it is very easy, in the warm comfort of our own homes, to second guess this woman. There are so many things that go into this, and as Catty said, that primale (sic) urge to bear children (that not everyone might have) is strong. I would imagine, but, do not know, that her plan wasn't to have 8 infants. But, once one conceives, how does one bear the thought of determining just who shall live? I couldn't do it.

The nature of the fertility drug/assistance path is so expensive. Implanting two eggs, finding a level of hormone that would only encourage an extra egg or two, isn't as easy as it seems. With the expense of the procedure, many DO opt to over do it, in order to secure one 'for sure' fetus, while minimizing expense.

There are many in our country that receive government assistance of some kind. There are people that routinely go on unemployment cause the nature of their job is seasonal. There are people that go on disibility, WC, that get assistance..that is thier 'right'. The big corporate sponsors that want to donate? Who cares, that is private money.

As to Jon and Kate, plus 8, while I think she could do with some serious counseling for passive/aggressive behaviour, OCD and general manners, they seem to support themselves without public assistance.

[lvpets2002]

:o Richard at least Jon & Kate only have eight kids.. You forgot about the Dugger Family that just had their 18th child.. Its horibble how the media supports these familys.. You do know that this women that just had the eight babies does not even know who or where the father is.. These fertlized eggs she had emplanted in her.. I just dont get it due to she had 6 kids at home already.. I guess its how bad do you want to be in the media..:rolleyes:
She had 6 kids, two are twins.


I just cannot believe it.

--------

Rose,
If she has more kids she belongs in a museum.

[Catty1]

Like Cataholic said, she refused embryo reduction (nice phrase, huh?). I would think normally that not all eight would survive, so letting 'Nature take its course' or 'God decide' was the plan.


http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/health/news/article_1456749.php/US_octuplet_mum_already_had_six_-_refused_embryo_reduction__Roundup__

US octuplet mum already had six - refused embryo reduction (Roundup)
Health News

Jan 30, 2009, 14:48 GMT

Los Angeles - The mother of octuplets born Monday in California already had six children under the age of seven, but declined to abort some of the eight foetuses, her mother said in a Los Angeles Times interview Friday.

The mother has not been officially named. But grandmother Angela Suleman said the woman's refusal to undergo a so-called reduction was taken on moral grounds. 'What do you suggest she should have done? She refused to have them killed,' Suleman said. 'That is a very painful thing.'

Suleman acknowledged that raising 14 children would be difficult, especially since the father is due to return to Iraq shortly where he serves as a military contractor.

The mother, aged 33, was offered a selective abortion, Dr Harold Henry at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Centre said. The woman had consulted the doctors in her 12th week of pregnancy.

News that the mother already had six young children before giving birth to the octuplets is likely to increase the controversy surrounding the use of fertility treatments, especially the implanting of multiple embryos which can lead to high risk pregnancies and health problems for the babies, who are usually born prematurely.

'When we see something like this in the general fertility world, it gives us the heebie-jeebies,' Michael Tucker, a clinical embryologist in Atlanta and a leading researcher in infertility treatment, told the newspaper. Tucker added that in his opinion, 'if a medical practitioner had anything to do with it, there's some degree of inappropriate medical therapy there.'

The six boys and two girls were delivered within five minutes of each other by Caesarean section Monday morning. The delivery surprised doctors who had been expecting 'only' seven babies.

Two of the newborns who had initially been put on ventilators, were now breathing on their own.

The mother is the second person ever to have delivered a set of living octuplets. The last octuplets known to have survived birth were born in Houston in 1998. One of the babies died one week later.

On Wednesday, the mother could see her babies for the first time in their incubators at the intensive care ward. According to People magazine, she was not allowed to hold her babies yet, but watched them sleeping.

The babies weighed in at between 880 grams and 1.47 kilograms each. All eight will spend about two months in an incubator, the hospital said, but the mother, who plans to breastfeed all her children, will be able to leave hospital in one week.

[Grace]

Her other children's ages are 7, 6, 5, 3 and 2 year old twins. I doubt there was ever any question of her not being able to have a child.

IMVHO this woman needed psychiatric care instead of embryo implantation.

[lvpets2002]

:p Aint that the Damn Truth.. :rolleyes: LOL
Her other children's ages are 7, 6, 5, 3 and 2 year old twins. I doubt there was ever any question of her not being able to have a child.

IMVHO this woman needed psychiatric care instead of embryo implantation.

[RICHARD]

Let's review,

A single mom? 14 kids?

HMMMM!

I don't think that J and K + 8 live off of his salary alone. My dad raised six as a 'laborer' and my mom working part time, then full time when we were old enough.


J+K+8 'live' off of their program, the kindness of others and corporate 'sponsors'.

I happened by a spot when the kids had a birhday-even I have a curiosity about that trainwreck- and the mom was unpacking some shirts that were sent by a 'fan'. They also had some huge benefactors when they were first born.

As for the vacations?

Dizzyland and the producers of the program look for opportunities to showcase
the family out in public. I watched the Dizzyland episode and had to laugh about the accomodations and all the 'perks'.

Unless I win the lottery, I would never even dream of going and spending a week there, let alone with 8 kids. It's all donated thru the public relations offices of DL and the DISC Channel. The foot forward -or 20 feet - isthey want to portray is the Magic Kingdom is great place to take a litter of children for fun and games.

"LooK! IF John and Kate do it! We can with our 3-1-4-5-7-? kids!

Think of it on real terms.

Hotel SUITE! for 5 days? Tickets to the park? 200 dollars for the adults, 240 for the kids, and the prices are guesstimates? Food and god knows what else!

We have a Six Flags up the road- I was given a comp ticket when they were 10 bucks. NOw?

That may be a burger, coke and fries after I pay 45 to get in.

--------------------------


Embryo Reduction?

Every facet of the world has their 'non offensive terminology'.

Some kids took grandma's car, got pulled over and ran from the cops.
The 14 y.o. that was driving got the car up to 90 and crashed it. The cops sugar coat the crash with termiology, abbreviations and other PR drivel because they don't want to acknowledge that they chased a car full of kids to death- If I remember one was 11 and another was 15?

[Grace]

More news on this. It appears she does have a husband.

Suleman said she was concerned about her daughter's homecoming because her husband, a contract worker, is due to return to Iraq.

From the LA Times-

The mother of a woman who gave birth on Monday to octuplets said her daughter already has six children at home and was undergoing fertility treatment.

The Los Angeles Times reported on Thursday that Angela Suleman said her daughter had the embryos implanted last year, resulting in the eight births.

"They all happened to take," Suleman told the Times.

According to an earlier report, she did not show up at Kaiser until she was close to 12 weeks along. So they did not implant the embryos.

My question - what doctor in his/her right mind would treat a woman for infertility when she had undergone 5 pregnancies, resulting in 6 children over the previous 6 years?

[RICHARD]

More news on this. It appears she does have a husband.

Suleman said she was concerned about her daughter's homecoming because her husband, a contract worker, is due to return to Iraq.

From the LA Times-


According to an earlier report, she did not show up at Kaiser until she was close to 12 weeks along. So they did not implant the embryos.

My question - what doctor in his/her right mind would treat a woman for infertility when she had undergone 5 pregnancies, resulting in 6 children over the previous 6 years?


Grace,

I worked for the "permanente" for a long time-they did what was good 'for the company' quite a few times. How's about the OB docs stalling a New Year's Eve birth to get the "first kid of the year" on their resume. I think that's what happened in Orange COunty this year.

They have a PR machine next to none!


http://www.myfoxla.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8181252&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Enough said?;)

The reports from the local news media was that she was single and living with mom.

The more I hear, the more I question the whole idea, story and morals.:rolleyes:

[Grace]

Just found this -

From CBS News -


CBS News has learned that the family of the octuplets born this week outside Los Angeles filed for bankruptcy and abandoned a home a little over a year-and-a-half ago.

Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman says the mother is in her mid-thirties and lives with her parents.

There's been no mention of the octuplets' father, Kauffman observes.

The grandfather, she adds, is apparently going to head back to his native Iraq to earn money for the growing family. He told CBS News he's a former Iraqi military man.

Kauffman reported Thursday, and the octuplets' maternal grandmother now confirms to the Los Angeles Times, that the babies' mother already had six young children.

And a family acquaintance had told Kauffman that two of the six other kids are twins, and the six range in age from about two to about seven.

The mother's name is still being kept under wraps.
But her mother, Angela Suleman, also tells the newspaper her daughter conceived the octuplets through a fertility program.

Suleman told the Times her daughter had embryos implanted and, "They all happened to take."

On The Early Show Friday, the scientific director of an Atlanta-area fertility clinic blasted whichever clinic did the implantations, saying he's "stunned."

Doctors at the hospital where the octuplets were born, Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center in Bellflower, Calif., some 17 miles southeast of L.A., say the patient came to them already three months pregnant.

Asked at a news conference whether fertility assistance should be provided for a mother who already has multiple children, Dr. Harold Henry, part of the team that delivered the octuplets, said, "Kaiser has no policy on that, adding that doctors counseled the woman on her options.

"The options," said Henry, "were to continue the pregnancy or to selectively abort. The patient chose to continue the pregnancy."

Dr. Karen Maples, who also helped deliver the octuplets, read a statement from the mother saying, "My family and I are ecstatic about all of their arrivals."

The woman and her children live in a neighborhood of small, one-story homes, Kauffman reports, all with two-to-three bedrooms at most. Soon, she pointed out, there will be 14 children and at least three adults living in one of the homes -- until the grandfather heads back to his native Iraq,

Kauffman says unanswered questions include where the woman got the fertility treatments and how they were paid for.

On The Early Show Friday, Michael Tucker, scientific director of Georgia Reproductive Specialists, says all these developments leave him "stunned. As the story's unfolded and it's gone from the potential use of just fertility drugs, or misuse thereof, to actual, apparently, IVF (in-vitro fertilization) with transfer of embryos, this is just remarkable to me that any practitioner in our field of reproductive medicine would undertake such a practice."

Tucker, who has a doctorate in reproductive physiology, says it's "absolutely" possible the octuplets' mother got pregnant with them by taking fertility drugs on her own without the help of a clinic, "and that seemed the most plausible scenario, simply because the profession, we're policed by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, has focused so minutely on the fact that we need to reduce the number of embryos that we transfer. We really are all about seeking the one, the one embryo that's going to make the healthy, single-born baby.

"And this kind of multiple plethora excess of babies is too much of a good thing. And it's rather a slap in the face of the whole profession, simply because it's going in the wrong direction.

"And it's unfortunate, because the media pick up on this and seem to go, I think, Arthur Kaplan from UPenn (University of Pennsylvania) said the media tend to go goo-goo gaga over this and, in fact, it's really a bit of a medical disaster."

"Had she walked into a fertility clinic and said, 'Listen, I've got other children, the oldest seven, the youngest two,' co-anchor Julie Chen asked Tucker, "is there any ethical responsibility on the clinic's part to say, 'I'm not going to treat you,' or, 'You know what? This is not a good idea?" '

"Suffice to say," Tucker responded, "I've been in this business for 25 years now. And it's pretty much standard practice in all clinics to have some form of psychological evaluation of the patient. Also, their sociological circumstances. And I'm stunned, actually, that a clinic would proceed to treat a patient in this circumstance and then even to get to perhaps the transfer of embryos and ponder the transfer in, I believe, the lady's mid-30s, a 35-year-old -- she should be receiving two embryos, maximum, as a transfer into her uterus to have had eight transferred is somewhat -- is extremely irresponsible."

[RICHARD]

This story is better than a circus!

[Grace]

This story is better than a circus!

Gets better with each passing hour. From YAHOO news -


Grandma: Octuplets mom obsessed with having kids
By RAQUEL MARIA DILLON, Associated Press Writer
Jan 31, 10:30 am ET

LOS ANGELES – The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said.

Angela Suleman told The Associated Press she was not supportive when her daughter, Nadya Suleman, decided to have more embryos implanted last year.

"It can't go on any longer," she said in a phone interview Friday. "She's got six children and no husband. I was brought up the traditional way. I firmly believe in marriage. But she didn't want to get married."

Nadya Suleman, 33, gave birth Monday in nearby Bellflower. She was expected to remain in the hospital for at least a few more days, and her newborns for at least a month.

A spokeswoman at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center said the babies were doing well and seven were breathing unassisted.

While her daughter recovers, Angela Suleman is taking care of the other six children, ages 2 through 7, at the family home in Whittier, about 15 miles east of downtown Los Angeles.

She said she warned her daughter that when she gets home from the hospital, "I'm going to be gone."

Angela Suleman said her daughter always had trouble conceiving and underwent in vitro fertilization treatments because her fallopian tubes are "plugged up."

There were frozen embryos left over after her previous pregnancies and her daughter didn't want them destroyed, so she decided to have more children.

Her mother and doctors have said the woman was told she had the option to abort some of the embryos and, later, the fetuses. She refused.

Her mother said she does not believe her daughter will have any more children.

"She doesn't have any more (frozen embryos), so it's over now," she said. "It has to be."

Nadya Suleman wanted to have children since she was a teenager, "but luckily she couldn't," her mother said.

"Instead of becoming a kindergarten teacher or something, she started having them, but not the normal way," he mother said.

Her daughter's obsession with children caused Angela Suleman considerable stress, so she sought help from a psychologist, who told her to order her daughter out of the house.

"Maybe she wouldn't have had so many kids then, but she is a grown woman," Angela Suleman said. "I feel responsible and I didn't want to throw her out."

Yolanda Garcia, 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for Nadya Suleman's autistic son three years ago.

"From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself, saying she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all," Garcia told the Long Beach Press-Telegram.

"She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how can you afford that and go to school at the same time?"' she added. "And she said it's because she got paid for it."

Garcia said she did not ask for details.

Nadya Suleman holds a 2006 degree in child and adolescent development from California State University, Fullerton, and as late as last spring she was studying for a master's degree in counseling, college spokeswoman Paula Selleck told the Press-Telegram.

Her fertility doctor has not been identified. Her mother told the Los Angeles Times all the children came from the same sperm donor but she declined to identify him.

Birth certificates reviewed by The Associated Press identify a David Solomon as the father for the four oldest children. Certificates for the other children were not immediately available.

The news that the octuplets' mother already had six children sparked an ethical debate. Some medical experts were disturbed to hear that she was offered fertility treatment, and troubled by the possibility that she was implanted with so many embryos.

Others worried that she would be overwhelmed trying to raise so many children and would end up relying on public support.

The eight babies — six boys and two girls — were delivered by Cesarean section weighing between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces. Forty-six physicians and staff assisted in the deliveries.

[Edwina's Secretary]

This story is appalling on so many different levels.

Our planet cannot support people having so many babies. This story was on the radio followed by a story on water rationing coming to OC.

This woman is selfish (if she is sane enough to be called that.) I object to paying for her children -- those 46 people in the delivery room, the schools, the water, the roads, the parks, the waste created by her 14 children. And I do pay for them...my taxes, my medical premiums, my quality of life.

And the doctors who wash their hands and say it is not their responsibility to tell a woman how many children she can have make me sick.

Because it is a local story it is getting much publicity here. I heard on the car radio the original news conference. It is interesting how the news coverage has gone from "isn't it exciting?" to "isn't it appalling?" so quickly.

Just because technology allows us to do things doesn't mean we should.

[RICHARD]

Seriously?

I heard the family had a few properties and can afford to have a kenne-home filled with kids.

So what.

Like my mom said, "As long as you are not using............Who cares."

:D:eek::cool::p

[Daisy and Delilah]

Sorry if this is already a thread somewhere.

What does everyone think of the story of the woman in Whittier, CA, giving birth to octuplets? I'm reading that she already has 6 children between 2 and 7. She has no husband and went through IV(Invitro fertilization)for all the children, including the octuplets.

Opinions please........:confused:

[Cinder & Smoke]

'Mommy' says she's gonna move out ...

from the Associated Press via MSNBC.com >>>

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/APTRANS.gif updated 1/31/2009


LOS ANGELES - The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived
all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed
with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said.
Angela Suleman told The Associated Press she was not supportive when her daughter,
Nadya Suleman, decided to have more embryos implanted last year.
"It can't go on any longer," she said in a phone interview Friday. "She's got six children
and no husband. I was brought up the traditional way. I firmly believe in marriage.
But she didn't want to get married." ...
[There's more ...]

Entire Article is at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28948599/

[pomtzu]

Don't get me going on that one. Let's just say that my thoughts are all negative - especially when it comes to who is paying for all of this! She should have been spayed long ago!!! :mad:

[Grace]

Sorry if this is already a thread somewhere.

What does everyone think of the story of the woman in Whittier, CA, giving birth to octuplets? I'm reading that she already has 6 children between 2 and 7. She has no husband and went through IV(Invitro fertilization)for all the children, including the octuplets.

Opinions please........:confused:

You're smack dab in the middle of a topic about that very event. There are opinions flying all over this topic. Please join in - the more the merrier :)

[Moesha]

You're smack dab in the middle of a topic about that very event. There are opinions flying all over this topic. Please join in - the more the merrier :)

She had started a new thread about this topic. Karen merged that thread into this one.

[shais_mom]

I think the whole thing is ABSURD. I TOTALLY agree with whoever said she needed counseling instead of fertility drugs.
While I certainly do not think that doctors have the right to tell someone how many children they should have, this woman, who claims she got paid to have the kids should have been stopped.
One of the older children also has autism I believe. While I have nothing against people having more than 1-2 children, (its their right of course) I firmly believe in the concept of only having 2 to replace yourself and spouse, etc. (can't remember what it was called) but those people that have more than 2 children apparently are just taking up my allotment. ;)
This woman is no different than a collector of dogs or cats, she is just choosing to have kids. Why would you want to do that to your body like that? Crazy.
This woman is no different than the local trash I see every week coming into my ER who has 5 kids but 3-5 different fathers. And is on welfare. It just cost her (US) a LOT more to have 14 kids.

[Grace]

She had started a new thread about this topic. Karen merged that thread into this one.

I had no idea. Is there notification when that happens?

[Grace]

I think the whole thing is ABSURD. I TOTALLY agree with whoever said she needed counseling instead of fertility drugs.
While I certainly do not think that doctors have the right to tell someone how many children they should have, this woman, who claims she got paid to have the kids should have been stopped.
One of the older children also has autism I believe. While I have nothing against people having more than 1-2 children, (its their right of course) I firmly believe in the concept of only having 2 to replace yourself and spouse, etc. (can't remember what it was called) but those people that have more than 2 children apparently are just taking up my allotment. ;)
This woman is no different than a collector of dogs or cats, she is just choosing to have kids. Why would you want to do that to your body like that? Crazy.
This woman is no different than the local trash I see every week coming into my ER who has 5 kids but 3-5 different fathers. And is on welfare. It just cost her (US) a LOT more to have 14 kids.

Oh boy, do I agree with you!! And that concept of only replacing ones self - Zero Population Growth.

[Moesha]

I had no idea. Is there notification when that happens?

I don't think so. I only knew it because I had seen her thread and posted a link pointing to this one. Karen let me know that she had deleted my post when she merged D&D's post with this thread. It does look funny if you are reading along and then see her post asking about opinions about the topic being discussed. :) I just thought I'd clarify why it was there.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Sorry everybody. I didn't notice that the topic was already being covered. Karen PM'd me to let me know that she was merging.
I was only looking for the word "Octuplets" in the title and I missed it.:)

Anyway......I was reading this story earlier. I went to the website for the Whittier newspaper. I can't believe this woman had 6 children and wanted IV for "just one more child". I can understand that it would be hard to make a decision to abort to reduce the quantity of eggs. What I don't understand, why did a woman with 6 children need more children at all?

I was a single mother so that isn't a question in my mind. I am a huge supporter of single momhood. That's not really the point. However, husband or no husband, she's going to need alot of help.

How does she expect to care for these children? Did she think about who would pay to raise them? Raising 14 children is going to be difficult for her. Her father is willing to take care of them financially with his salary from his job in Iraq. Her mother says she's always been obsessed with having children. Ay yi yi!!

I really don't know what to say about this. It's mind boggling.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[RICHARD]

Sorry everybody. I didn't notice that the topic was already being covered. Karen PM'd me to let me know that she was merging.
I was only looking for the word "Octuplets" in the title and I missed it.:)



Admit it, You have problems with the alphabet!;)

I would not have posted the story had not the esteemed senator from the Great Late State of Cah lee fuh Nee Ah, not come out and put her stilleto in her kisser!;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Whether she can "afford" them or not, whether she has a husband or not are irrelevant facts to me.

The planet cannot afford them.

People bitch and moan about the government interferring in our lives. If we continue to do stupid things we get laws to try and control our behavior. Someone has to if we cannot control ourselves.

I consider anyone giving birth to so many children no better than a backyard breeder or someone who does not spay or neuter pets.

Irresponsible! I cannot understand why there are television shows that glorify people who have lots of children. (Or so I have heard...:rolleyes:)

[Daisy and Delilah]

Admit it, You have problems with the alphabet!;)

I would not have posted the story had not the esteemed senator from the Great Late State of Cah lee fuh Nee Ah, not come out and put her stilleto in her kisser!;)

GUILTY as charged :)

ES: Very well said. TLC is promoting everything these days. It really annoys me to see so many ads for shows that are that ridiculous.:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Cinder & Smoke]

The planet cannot afford them.

I consider anyone giving birth to so many children no better than a
backyard breeder or someone who does not spay or neuter pets.

Irresponsible!
I cannot understand why there are television shows
that glorify people who have lots of children.
(Or so I have heard ... :rolleyes: )

You must have missed the Today Show when they 'featured' this SuperSized Family >>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28948599/

"Meet the Duggar family — all 19 of them ...
Arkansas couple believe children are ‘special gifts from God’ "

:(

[Medusa]

Before I nodded off last night, I saw on TV that it will cost a minimum of $480,000.00 for hospital care for the octuplets and that's on top of the cost of the invitro process itself. I'm sure this woman has this much money put aside for just such an occasion and won't have to rely on the dole at all. :rolleyes:

[pomtzu]

Before I nodded off last night, I saw on TV that it will cost a minimum of $480,000.00 for hospital care for the octuplets and that's on top of the cost of the invitro process itself. I'm sure this woman has this much money put aside for just such an occasion and won't have to rely on the dole at all. :rolleyes:

But of course! :rolleyes: Just like she has the income to provide care for all 14 (and herself) for at least the next 18 years! :mad:

[Puckstop31]

Whether she can "afford" them or not, whether she has a husband or not are irrelevant facts to me.

The planet cannot afford them.

People bitch and moan about the government interferring in our lives. If we continue to do stupid things we get laws to try and control our behavior. Someone has to if we cannot control ourselves.

I consider anyone giving birth to so many children no better than a backyard breeder or someone who does not spay or neuter pets.

Irresponsible! I cannot understand why there are television shows that glorify people who have lots of children. (Or so I have heard...:rolleyes:)

Hmmmm... Facist much ES?

Where do you get off saying this was a stupid thing to do? And as for having too many children, don't worry... We are aborting WAY more than people like her can make up for.

Why can't you looney lefties just be happy? I don't care what YOU do, as long as you stay out of my life. Why can't we ALL do that? Why do SOME have to think they know better for everybody else?

Kinda funny to hear this from the person whose mantra often is "we have to do it for the children".

[pomtzu]

Hmmmm... Facist much ES?

Where do you get off saying this was a stupid thing to do? And as for having too many children, don't worry... We are aborting WAY more than people like her can make up for.

Why can't you looney lefties just be happy? I don't care what YOU do, as long as you stay out of my life. Why can't we ALL do that? Why do SOME have to think they know better for everybody else?

Kinda funny to hear this from the person whose mantra often is "we have to do it for the children".

And I guess it makes no difference to you, that you and all the other taxpayers are footing this bill, and will for years to come??? :mad:

[Edwina's Secretary]

As a local story this gets so much coverage here. One of the things that was said is that hospitals routinely write off much of the cost of this type of multiple births. So she won't have to worry too much about that $480,000. (Although that seems a little low to me. I have seen claims of $250,000 for premie twins...)

When a hospital "writes off" services provided that means you and I pay for it.

[Puckstop31]

And I guess it makes no difference to you, that you and all the other taxpayers are footing this bill, and will for years to come??? :mad:


OK.... So you have issues about paying for this, you know, some less fortunate children's well being. What might your stance on public funding of abortion be?

Better yet, what is your stance on the "stimulus" bill making its way through Congress?

[sparks19]

I do think this woman is looney for having so many kids... but what about the Dr's responsibility in this?

She has 6 kids and goes in for fertility treatments and GETS it? Someone on another board compared it to someone with no pain going in to get pain drugs and getting them.

and I'm not claiming to know much about fertility treatments but I do know a few people who have had them done and I'm really curious how she ended up with EIGHT viable eggs. From what I hear any responsible dr will not implant more than 3 eggs TOPS. So did these eggs REALLY divide that many times or did she get WAY too many eggs.

I say THAT's the kind of stuff that should be "controlled" if we are talking about controlling peoples actions. Stop these Dr's that do this. But I am certainly not about to jump on the mandatory "spaying" of women bandwagon. That's a little ridiculous to me.

I don't agree with what this woman did... it's the kids that are going to suffer. but I'm not about to demand a one child per family law. this IS America isn't it?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I do think this woman is looney for having so many kids... but what about the Dr's responsibility in this?

She has 6 kids and goes in for fertility treatments and GETS it? Someone on another board compared it to someone with no pain going in to get pain drugs and getting them.

and I'm not claiming to know much about fertility treatments but I do know a few people who have had them done and I'm really curious how she ended up with EIGHT viable eggs. From what I hear any responsible dr will not implant more than 3 eggs TOPS. So did these eggs REALLY divide that many times or did she get WAY too many eggs.

I say THAT's the kind of stuff that should be "controlled" if we are talking about controlling peoples actions. Stop these Dr's that do this. But I am certainly not about to jump on the mandatory "spaying" of women bandwagon. That's a little ridiculous to me.

I don't agree with what this woman did... it's the kids that are going to suffer. but I'm not about to demand a one child per family law. this IS America isn't it?


And the doctors who wash their hands and say it is not their responsibility to tell a woman how many children she can have make me sick.

Look Sparky! We agree on this! :D:D:D

[Grace]

I'm really curious how she ended up with EIGHT viable eggs. From what I hear any responsible dr will not implant more than 3 eggs TOPS. So did these eggs REALLY divide that many times or did she get WAY too many eggs.

That's the $64,000 question. We have not yet heard from her original doctor. Her mother said, a day or so ago, that all her pregnancies were the result of IVF. She also said that there were 8 embryos remaining, and all of them were implanted. Since there are no more embryos, one could possible hope that she will have no more children.

[pomtzu]

OK.... So you have issues about paying for this, you know, some less fortunate children's well being. What might your stance on public funding of abortion be?

Better yet, what is your stance on the "stimulus" bill making its way through Congress?

I'm not talking abortion or the stimulus bill - I talking about MY money and that of all U.S. taxpayers, more than likely supporting these children of this totally reckless woman. What she did IMO is the most selfish and irresponsible act I have ever heard of. I think it's fairly accurate to assume that she will be receiving assistance for herself and her children for many years to come.
And what about all the deserving people in this country who practically have to beg for assistance, and in many cases this is denied to them. What about the elderly and disabled and handicapped who can't pay for prescriptions, who go hungry, are cold and even freezing to death in their own homes because they can't pay their utility bills? So many ask for assistance and are denied because the few hundred dollars they get from Social Security each month is "too much money" to qualify, and others are just to proud to ask! The majority of these folks have no retirement plan or 401K plan to draw from. What about the unemployed (thru no fault of their own) who are losing everything because of this crappy economy - don't they deserve assistance more than this woman?
I'm really sick of the illegals, deadbeats, and moochers who live off the taxpayer, and have never contributed anything, yet get every freebie under the sun, just for the asking. Free medical care, housing, food stamps, education opportunities, for themselves and all their children. This woman fits right in, and I certainly don't want to hear anyone defending her and citing her primal instinct to reproduce. Spare me please!!!!! She's nothing more than a college educated nutcase. I'm sure she flunked Common Sense 101. :mad:

[pomtzu]

That's the $64,000 question. We have not yet heard from her original doctor. Her mother said, a day or so ago, that all her pregnancies were the result of IVF. She also said that there were 8 embryos remaining, and all of them were implanted. Since there are no more embryos, one could possible hope that she will have no more children.

There was a discussion on t.v. among some medical experts where they agreed it borders on medical malpractice to implant 8 embryos. The dangers to the mother and babies is astronomical, and even tho the odds of all 8 "taking" would be slim, it happened in this case.

[RICHARD]

Before I nodded off last night, I saw on TV that it will cost a minimum of $480,000.00 for hospital care for the octuplets and that's on top of the cost of the invitro process itself. I'm sure this woman has this much money put aside for just such an occasion and won't have to rely on the dole at all. :rolleyes:

Kaiser is a non profit hospital that is a HMO.

If she can afford the premiums, it won't cost anyone anything-except the people in the plan..


We DON"T KNOW if she had the procedure done here in the U.S. where repro med is regulated. She live a stroller's push away from the border and she may have done like many people here in the states-gone across the border for treatment-


I think all the panic is pretty PREMATURE (Pun Intended) and we shouldn't count our embryos before they hatch.

[Grace]

[B][SIZE="5"]

. . . . . . . . and we shouldn't count our embryos before they hatch.

Too late, Richard. They hatched last week, all 8 of them.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Kaiser is a non profit hospital that is a HMO.

If she can afford the premiums, it won't cost anyone anything-except the people in the plan..



Boy are you naive as to how medical care is paid for in this country!

[RICHARD]

Next time I give advice to people who ask about medical billing I'll have to charge them for being uninformed.:confused::rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

Next time I give advice to people who ask about medical billing I'll have to charge them for being uninformed.:confused::rolleyes:

That's okay. It was worth exactly what I paid for it!:rolleyes::confused:

[pomtzu]

Kaiser is a non profit hospital that is a HMO.

If she can afford the premiums, it won't cost anyone anything-except the people in the plan..



I seriously doubt a woman with 6 kids, unemployed, living with her parents, and lost her home to foreclosure, could afford private insurance premiums. And it won't cost anyone anything??? I guess she won't be seeking public assistance for herself and 14 kids??? Think again! :rolleyes::mad:

[lizbud]

There was a discussion on t.v. among some medical experts where they agreed it borders on medical malpractice to implant 8 embryos. The dangers to the mother and babies is astronomical, and even tho the odds of all 8 "taking" would be slim, it happened in this case.



Here is a good article about the ethics of Drs. who would implant that many
embryos in anyone.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/30/embryos.ethics/index.html

[Daisy and Delilah]

sparks: I read that her mother said there were fewer than eight implanted embryos. She stated to the media that the eggs divided.

I also read that she told the doctor she had no more children. I believe it was in the Whittier newspaper.

[RICHARD]

I seriously doubt a woman with 6 kids, unemployed, living with her parents, and lost her home to foreclosure, could afford private insurance premiums. And it won't cost anyone anything??? I guess she won't be seeking public assistance for herself and 14 kids??? Think again! :rolleyes::mad:
I worked for Kaiser for 30 years.

Go online and see what the monthly rates are. If anything, to have coverage you have to either be employed by someone who offers the coverage, work for the company or pay for your insurance.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Or be sent to that hospital because it has the best neonatal program in the area.

According to the news conference the day she delivered she was sent to Kaiser in Bellflower because of their neonatal staff.

Are you REALLY suggesting a person who is on public medical insurance isn't sent to the best hospital for their condition?

Perhaps it has been a while since you worked for Kaiser?

How much would you like to bet whether she had Kaiser coverage? Or whether she was sent to Kaiser and they accepted her and agreed to "absorb" much of the cost so that ONLY those who have Kaiser coverage or are taxpayers are on the hook?

At the end of the day, I don't care if she is insured or not, married or not, none of that. I...and those of you who pay taxes, consume water, breath air, or are otherwise alive....will pay for this woman's children.

[pomtzu]

At the end of the day, I don't care if she is insured or not, married or not, none of that. I...and those of you who pay taxes, consume water, breath air, or are otherwise alive....will pay for this woman's children.

My point exactly! :mad:

[Medusa]

[QUOTE=RICHARD;2118099]Kaiser is a non profit hospital that is a HMO.

If she can afford the premiums, it won't cost anyone anything-except the people in the plan../[QUOTE]

Why are you shouting? Or is it that you think that we are vision impaired?

One way or another, it's probable that the burden of paying for all of this will fall on the taxpayer or she'll get corporate donations, etc. I, on the other hand, may need another bone graft on my jaw and my insurance company to which I struggle to pay huge premiums every month, won't pay for it. Do you not see the inequity of this or shall I type in bold large fonts in order to get the point across?

[RICHARD]

Why are you shouting? Or is it that you think that we are vision impaired?

equity of this or shall I type in bold large fonts in order to get the point across?


Why quote large type fonts?

Now I am deaf.

The government will only pay a portion of this hospitilization.

The rest the company will eat. IT's great PR and the docs are loving it.:rolleyes:

[Medusa]

Why quote large type fonts?

Now I am deaf.

The government will only pay a portion of this hospitilization.

The rest the company will eat. IT's great PR and the docs are loving it.:rolleyes:

You did not address one thing I said, Richard.

[JenBKR]

Wow - just disgusting. The idiot doctor(s) who kept giving her IVF should have to foot the bill.

I can't imagine having to take care of 14 children. Not just financially, the day to day work that goes into caring for children. She sounds like a nutcase to me - and she's studying to be a counselor! :eek:

[Grace]

Now she's looking for the gravy train.


Octuplets' Mom Wants $2 Million From Oprah, Media Deals
Monday , February 02, 2009


The mother of octuplets born in California last week is seeking $2 million from media interviews and commercial endorsements to help pay the costs of raising the children, the Times of London reported.

Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert. It was learned last week that she already had six children before giving birth to eight more. She now has 14 children younger than 8 years old.

Although still confined to a Los Angeles hospital bed, Suleman reportedly intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week — media mogul Oprah Winfrey and Diane Sawyer.

Her family has told agents she needs cash from media deals.

Suleman is being deluged with offers for book deals, TV shows and other business proposals, but according to her publicist she hasn't decided what she might do once she leaves the hospital.

On Friday she retained the Killeen Furtney Group public relations firm to handle what company President Joann Killeen says are hundreds of offers arriving daily. They include requests for paid interviews, TV show appearances, book deals and other opportunities.

Killeen says Suleman is "the most sought after mom in the world right now," but she hasn't decided what she'll do next, other than care for her children.

But Suleman's earning power could be diminished by the growing ethical and medical controversies surrounding her octuplets' birth. Experts believe that the unnamed fertility specialists who gave her in vitro fertilization (IVF) should not have implanted so many embryos, and in choosing to carry all eight to term, Suleman ignored guidelines, risking both the babies' health and her own.

Public reaction has been mixed: Many have asked how an unemployed single mother can raise 14 children, as her first six have already strained the family budget. Angela and Ed Suleman, Nadya’s parents, bought her a two-bedroom bungalow in the Los Angeles suburb of Whittier in March 2007, but soon fell on hard times and had to leave their own home.

[pomtzu]

Now she's looking for the gravy train.


Gee - isn't that a surprise??? :rolleyes:

And she plans a career as a t.v. childcare expert???? LMAO!!! Is this woman for real????

[pomtzu]

You did not address one thing I said, Richard.

Just like Puckstop tried to turn my post into a matter of abortion and the stimulus package, when my issue was tax payer money paying for this fiasco. Don't ya just love when they don't have an answer, they change the subject or tiptoe around it??? :rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

You did not address one thing I said, Richard.

I believe in certain circles that would be called passive aggressive behavior.:D:D:D

Before the latest news gets blamed on "the media" let's all take a vow to refuse to watch, read or purchase anything with any stories about or by this woman. "The media" only gives us what we want. Let's tell them we don't want any more attention going to this pathetic creature!

[Puckstop31]

Just like Puckstop tried to turn my post into a matter of abortion and the stimulus package, when my issue was tax payer money paying for this fiasco. Don't ya just love when they don't have an answer, they change the subject or tiptoe around it??? :rolleyes:


:confused:

My apologies as I obviously did not properly communicate what I was trying to get across.... I simply find it interesting that so many people are all of a sudden PO'ed about this woman getting public assistance.

What do you think the stimulus plan IS? TAXPAYER money going to lots of things WE should not be paying for.

And I DO love it when you all tip toe around or change the subject. Not trying to thread jack, but nobody ever really did answer my questions about the "stimulus" plan put forth by our new President.

And don't worry... I don't actually expect one either. So carry on.

Oh, for good measure... :rolleyes:

[Grace]

And I DO love it when you all tip toe around or change the subject. Not trying to thread jack, but nobody ever really did answer my questions about the "stimulus" plan put forth by our new President.

And don't worry... I don't actually expect one either. So carry on.


Then why do you even bother to ask? :confused:
_________________________________________________

Getting back to the subject at hand - babies -

I feel so very sorry for the children of this person. They did not ask to be born into this situation. I wonder what lies ahead of them now.

[caseysmom]

Then why do you even bother to ask? :confused:
_________________________________________________

Getting back to the subject at hand - babies -

I feel so very sorry for the children of this person. They did not ask to be born into this situation. I wonder what lies ahead of them now.

Seems like a passive aggressive behavior to me:D

[pomtzu]

:confused:

My apologies as I obviously did not properly communicate what I was trying to get across.... I simply find it interesting that so many people are all of a sudden PO'ed about this woman getting public assistance.

What do you think the stimulus plan IS? TAXPAYER money going to lots of things WE should not be paying for.

And I DO love it when you all tip toe around or change the subject. Not trying to thread jack, but nobody ever really did answer my questions about the "stimulus" plan put forth by our new President.

And don't worry... I don't actually expect one either. So carry on.

Oh, for good measure... :rolleyes:

I don't like to debate politics or religion as I admit I am far from an expert on either subject. And don't try to turn that one around and imply that the issue of the octuplets is strictly political, when what I am trying to convey is a matter of ethics.

So here's a couple of thoughts on the stimulus plan:
NO - we should not be paying for this woman's reckless behavior when deserving people are doing without.
NO - we should not continue to bail out big corporations with billions of taxpayer dollars so that they can turn around and reward their top guns with millions in bonuses! (of our money)

Yes - I have a problem with the fairness of these acts. Don't you???

[Grace]

Seems like a passive aggressive behavior to me:D

http://bestsmileys.com/thumbs/7.gif

[Edwina's Secretary]

http://bestsmileys.com/thumbs/7.gif

<<snicker>> (sorry...don't know the smilie for that!)

[JenBKR]

Ya know, I don't necessarily think that we should have a 'limit' to the amount of kids people have, but honestly sometimes I think that people should have to take some kind of test before they are allowed to have kids. Between this loon, and all of the other threads in the doghouse right now about people killing their kids.....ugh

[Edwina's Secretary]

Ya know, I don't necessarily think that we should have a 'limit' to the amount of kids people have, but honestly sometimes I think that people should have to take some kind of test before they are allowed to have kids. Between this loon, and all of the other threads in the doghouse right now about people killing their kids.....ugh

I don't disagree - have long been an advocate if we require a license to drive a car why not to have kids. The problem is...who would write the test?:D:D

[pomtzu]

I don't disagree - have long been an advocate if we require a license to drive a car why not to have kids. The problem is...who would write the test?:D:D

Maybe Richard and Puckstop??? :eek:

[Puckstop31]

Seems like a passive aggressive behavior to me:D


LOL.... PUH-lease. When have I ever been "passive" about anything?

:D

[Puckstop31]

I don't like to debate politics or religion as I admit I am far from an expert on either subject. And don't try to turn that one around and imply that the issue of the octuplets is strictly political, when what I am trying to convey is a matter of ethics.

Understood.


So here's a couple of thoughts on the stimulus plan:
NO - we should not be paying for this woman's reckless behavior when deserving people are doing without.

I agree, about the reckless part. But like it or not, the kids are here. What would be cool is if some big evil corporation gave her stuff, not money.



NO - we should not continue to bail out big corporations with billions of taxpayer dollars so that they can turn around and reward their top guns with millions in bonuses! (of our money)

Yes - I have a problem with the fairness of these acts. Don't you???

I agree.


Yet, you voted for a supported a guy whose first major piece of legislative agenda promises nothing but MORE of such things. Interesting.

[Puckstop31]

Ya know, I don't necessarily think that we should have a 'limit' to the amount of kids people have, but honestly sometimes I think that people should have to take some kind of test before they are allowed to have kids. Between this loon, and all of the other threads in the doghouse right now about people killing their kids.....ugh

Wow... I would expect such nanniness from ES or Liz... (Do they even have kids?)

You would REALLY want the government controlling such a intimate part of your life?

[Puckstop31]

Maybe Richard and Puckstop??? :eek:

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!!


Not in a million years. In my world, the book of laws would be about 3 pages long, double spaced. ;)

I mean God summed it up on two stone tablets. LOL

[pomtzu]

Yet, you voted for a supported a guy whose first major piece of legislative agenda promises nothing but MORE of such things. Interesting.

That's a rather strange statement considering I don't believe I ever revealed to anyone here on PT, who I voted for!

And no - I don't intend to do so now, either! :p

[Puckstop31]

That's a rather strange statement considering I don't believe I ever revealed to anyone here on PT, who I voted for!

And no - I don't intend to do so now, either! :p

LOL... Nice.


I'd be willing to make a rather large wager on that. :)

[Grace]

I mean God summed it up on two stone tablets. LOL

Don't forget the Five Books of Moses, the Written Law, the Torah; otherwise known as the first five books of the Old Testament.

[pomtzu]

I'd be willing to make a rather large wager on that. :)


And all I can say to that is that there's a sucker born every minute. :D
A fool and his money are soon parted. :D

[JenBKR]

Wow... I would expect such nanniness from ES or Liz... (Do they even have kids?)

You would REALLY want the government controlling such a intimate part of your life?

Not saying that it could ever actually happen...but come on. I get so disgusted sometimes. It makes me sick to think that someone could hurt or neglect their child. I think of all the people who would be wonderful parents, who try so hard, but are not able to have kids, and then I read the threads and other stories about kids who have been killed by their own parents...it just bothers me, a lot. I think that having my own child has made me more emotional about the whole thing too. I would love to adopt a child who needs a loving home, but I doubt that I would be able to afford it. Someday I hope that changes. Anyway, I kind of blabbered off topic...did any of that even make sense? :)

[RICHARD]

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!!


Not in a million years. In my world, the book of laws would be about 3 pages long, double spaced. ;)

I mean God summed it up on two stone tablets. LOL


LOLOLOLOL,

Send me a hard copy.......I'll sign it.:D


People make it sound like every 'abuse' 2ill cost them tons of money. spread across the 200 mill real taxpayers, its not even cents, for each one of us.

We really get a problem with some dopey chick who decides to have a litter- then we give an AJ like Madoff, who swindled 50 billion from real people across the country, barely a second glance.

8 babies or 50 billion dollars, what is more offensive to you?


Of course we all complain about keeping the Government out of our business, phone calls and email-then we get all huffy about someone having 14 kids.

We all support all the other people on state and government aid, what is a few more?

Oh, I forgot!

Please Uncle Sam, Don't make laws the punish me or the illegals, but in the same breath we want to have laws that prohibit women having babies?

Get real.

You want Uncle Sam out of people's lives and computers, but want to have him peeking into a GYN/OB exam room?


Do Not Make Me Laugh.

It's part of life now, Number 1 or get off the pot.

-------------


I'll address stuff when I get some answers to my questions?:D

[Grace]

We really get a problem with some dopey chick who decides to have a litter- then we give an AJ like Madoff, who swindled 50 billion from real people across the country, barely a second glance.

8 babies or 50 billion dollars, what is more offensive to you?


Both are offensive to me.

I don't want Uncle Sam peeking into my bedroom or doctor's exam room. What happens in either place is none of his business - and that includes whether I choose to get pregnant or stay pregnant.

Madoff is also offensive to me, for other reasons. However, his victims are adults, able to make decisions; hers are infants. Personally I think both of them should have been neutered at birth. They disgust me.

[RICHARD]

Both are offensive to me.

Personally I think both of them should have been neutered at birth. They disgust me.

I have worked with people who operate on the same level as kindergarteners.

To me, the childern are more victims than some AHs who want more money and invest in a 'get rich scheme'.

Los ninos no tiene culpa.

It's the people who believe they are 'grown up' enough to operate in the world that are scary.;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Please Uncle Sam, Don't make laws the punish me or the illegals, but in the same breath we want to have laws that prohibit women having babies?


Show me one place...just one place...in this thread where ANYONE has suggested a law that prohibits women or men from having children.

Other than a joking reference to having to have a license to have children... SHOW ME.

But of course...you cannot.

Because it isn't there.

So instead you will make some inane blather about this and that and the usual nothing.

Gosh...is THAT passive aggressive.

I have to ask the question...who is talking about the government here? About making laws...other than you of course.

[blue]

Gosh...is THAT passive aggressive.


No. Its two new behaviours, projecting and outright aggression.

[RICHARD]

No. Its two new behaviours, projecting and outright aggression.

Don't fall into the "I am an amateur psychologist and this is what is the matter with YOU!" routine.;)



I am crazy and I know it!

[blue]

Don't fall into the "I am an amateur psychologist and this is what is the matter with YOU!" routine.;)



I am crazy and I know it!

I stayed in a Holliday Inn last night.

[DJFyrewolf36]

I feel bad posting when I KNOW I don't have anything relevant to add to the topic but I just had to say lurking here is quite entertaining.

:D I love the DH sometimes

[RICHARD]

I stayed in a Holliday Inn last night.

Love it!:D



DJ,
Don't be going serious on us, O.K?:D

[Medusa]

I stayed in a Holliday Inn last night.

Now that's funny!

And, Richard, you still did not address what I asked because you were on your pulpit. Seeing that you may have lost your way since the question was asked so far back, I asked why you felt the necessity to "shout" by replying in large bold fonts. I'm not vision impaired either.

I also asked if you see the inequity of this "woman who lives in a shoe" getting donations from private corporations, asking for a couple of mil for her story, possibly getting a reality show, etc. all because she's obsessed w/child bearing (according to her parents) and was able to find an unethical doctor who would comply w/her wishes, while I and others like me are struggling to pay my monthly premium to an insurance company who has turned me down for necessary surgery on my jaw. We're talking about ethics and fairness, Richard, not about Big Brother.

FWIW, I believe that human females are not meant to have litters; animals are. Women are not built for it; animals are and even they have problems w/multiple births sometimes. Now consider that she has six other children to care for and ask yourself if it's reasonable or ethical to add more children to the mix. We PTers struggle w/our consciences whenever we take in a new pet because we know that it's a lifelong commitment and one that we had better be able to afford. It appears that she didn't even give this situation that much thought or consideration and these are human beings we're talking about!

[pomtzu]

Everytime I hear something else about this woman, I can't help but think of something I read here on PT just about every day. It's in caseysmom's siggy - "Don't breed or buy while shelter dogs die."
If this person is so freakin obsessed with children, she could easily have kept the population down, simply by adopting or fostering. But I suppose that wouldn't have been an option for her, since adopting costs money, and it's looking more every day that she is at the very far end of that equation. :mad:

And as far as the book deals, movie deals, interviews, talk shows, etc, etc, etc,.... I hope and pray that all these materialize and she makes big bucks, and in doing so, can't qualify for so much as one thin dime in assistance! :p

[pomtzu]

We all support all the other people on state and government aid, what is a few more?



We do????? I thought I made myself quite clear on my views of illegals, deadbeats, and moochers who get freebies, while the folks that are entitled to assistance, go begging!

Obviously you are a selective reader!!! :rolleyes:

[Grace]

Everytime I hear something else about this woman, I can't help but think of something I read here on PT just about every day. It's in caseysmom's siggy - "Don't breed or buy while shelter dogs die."
If this person is so freakin obsessed with children, she could easily have kept the population down, simply by adopting or fostering. But I suppose that wouldn't have been an option for her, since adopting costs money, and it's looking more every day that she is at the very far end of that equation. :mad:

And as far as the book deals, movie deals, interviews, talk shows, etc, etc, etc,.... I hope and pray that all these materialize and she makes big bucks, and in doing so, can't qualify for so much as one thin dime in assistance! :p

Wonderful post. Thanks, Ellie.

[sasvermont]

We cannot dictate how many children one wants or bring into this world. Not yet, anyway!

Do I think this woman will be a good mother? Who knows at this point. She will need a team of people to help with taking care of the infants.

I just read (not necessarily true) on the INTERNET news (Goggle) web site, that she has hope in getting $2,000,000 in TV, book deals. I think they should make her payoff her hospital bill straight off, then set up trust funds for the dozen + kids.

Does anyone know what religion she affiliates herself with, if any?

I, too, think she needs a good deal of mental health counseling.

FYI:
Several factors contribute to the development of a multiple pregnancy:

Heredity: A history of multiple births on a woman's side of the family increases her chances of having a multiple pregnancy.

Race: Women of African descent are the most likely to have multiple pregnancies.

Number of prior pregnancies: Having more than one previous pregnancy, especially a multiple pregnancy, increases the chance of having a multiple pregnancy.

Delayed childbearing: Older women who get pregnant are more likely to have multiples.

Infertility treatment: Fertility drugs, which stimulate the ovaries to release multiple eggs, or assisted reproductive technology (ART), which transfers multiple embryos into the womb (such as in vitro fertilization, or IVF), greatly increase a woman's chance of having a multiple pregnancy.

It's the last two factors that have been on the rise in the last couple of decades and are probably responsible for the increase in multiple births.


I guess I would not care much about this if I thought she and her parents could afford to keep these children healthy and alive. I DO resent that she is not paying for the delivery of these children, as far as I know. I heard an early report that the initial cost of each child to be in intensive care for the first few weeks would be at least $300,000 (each). You do the math.

I didn't read all the earlier posts, so please forgive me if I repeated what someone else has already posted.

One more time, I do not agree with her having all these children, but she did. Also, I suspect she medicated to increase the egg fertility, dropping way more egss than would have been implanted if she did the IVF routine. I just cannot imagine any doctor implanting that many embryos.

:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

We do????? I thought I made myself quite clear on my views of illegals, deadbeats, and moochers who get freebies, while the folks that are entitled to assistance, go begging!

Obviously you are a selective reader!!! :rolleyes:

NO I read your post.

I have a very wonderful view on illegals-My dad was once an illegal, got his green card and was able to finally get off his arse and become a naturalized citizen.

The most wonderful story about his quest to become a citizen of the U.S. was the verbal test he was given before the ceremony.

HE was asked about the three branches of government and in his haste to answer and nervousness, he said, "The Army, Navy and Marines!"

The woman saw he was nervous and said to him, "That's good enough for me!"

So the INS/ICE thought enough of some dumb, old Mexican green card holder to let him become a citizen.

Sometimes we toss out the jewels before we know how valuable they are to us.

P.S. My dad was caught, tossed into the jail on Terminal Island near Lost Angeles, deported and came back under the law.

Funny, I always wonder how a jailbird became my hero!:confused::eek::o

[RICHARD]

Now that's funny!

And, Richard, you still did not address what I asked because you were on your pulpit. Seeing that you may have lost your way since the question was asked so far back, I asked why you felt the necessity to "shout" by replying in large bold fonts. I'm not vision impaired either.




Because, I felt like it?

If you check around the feet of any 'preacher' you'll find his shoes are as dirty as the people that will listen.

I try not to take things too seriously-little things like san serif, bold or italics aren't bugaboos to me.

I often post messages that people ignore, I got it out of my system on a thread that won't change anyone's mind, the world or the way things run on the planet.

IT's off my chest and I apologize if it fell on anyone's toes.

[pomtzu]

NO I read your post.

I have a very wonderful view on illegals-My dad was once an illegal, got his green card and was able to finally get off his arse and become a naturalized citizen.

The most wonderful story about his quest to become a citizen of the U.S. was the verbal test he was given before the ceremony.

HE was asked about the three branches of government and in his haste to answer and nervousness, he said, "The Army, Navy and Marines!"

The woman saw he was nervous and said to him, "That's good enough for me!"

So the INS/ICE thought enough of some dumb, old Mexican green card holder to let him become a citizen.

Sometimes we toss out the jewels before we know how valuable they are to us.

P.S. My dad was caught, tossed into the jail on Terminal Island near Lost Angeles, deported and came back under the law.

Funny, I always wonder how a jailbird became my hero!:confused::eek::o

And I'm referring to the illegals who choose to stay illegals and NOT get off their "arse" as your father did!!! Therein lies a big difference - and those are the ones I have issues with - along with the deadbeats and moochers that I think I may have mentioned as well. :rolleyes: At my age - I'm sure I'll not live long enough to see much improvement in the way the tax dollar is given away so freely to some, yet not for others. :(

And you avoided any comment on my question/statement on "We do"??? Maybe YOU do, but I think the majority would say "We don't"!!!

[Medusa]

Because, I felt like it?

If you check around the feet of any 'preacher' you'll find his shoes are as dirty as the people that will listen.

I try not to take things too seriously-little things like san serif, bold or italics aren't bugaboos to me.

I often post messages that people ignore, I got it out of my system on a thread that won't change anyone's mind, the world or the way things run on the planet.

IT's off my chest and I apologize if it fell on anyone's toes.

Hmmm, yet you commented when I replied to your quote, saying that you were deaf now because it was in bold print. Do I detect a double standard here? Seems to me that lately you're always saying things because you feel like, everyone else's feelings be damned.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Kaiser is a non profit hospital that is a HMO.

If she can afford the premiums, it won't cost anyone anything-except the people in the plan..



Well...well...well... on the radio this morning the daily report on this woman :rolleyes: mentioned she is on MediCal (the state program of medical care for the indigent)! So I guess it IS costing something to other than "the people in the plan..."

Of course, this was followed by a report on California having the worst credit rating of the 50 states.

Again, my issue is abuse of finite resources.

[pomtzu]

Well...well...well... on the radio this morning the daily report on this woman :rolleyes: mentioned she is on MediCal (the state program of medical care for the indigent)! So I guess it IS costing something to other than "the people in the plan..."



Oh my-my! I'm soooo surprised! :rolleyes::mad::(

[sasvermont]

I had a feeling the health insurance issue was going to be public assistance. That really, really, irks me because she cannot afford to take of these children - let alone pay the insurance.

"As the stomach turns" - stay tuned!

:mad:

[RICHARD]

OH MY!

I was wrong.


I'd like all of you to take a post-it and write on it, "I DON'T WANT my hard earned money to go for this travesty of health care." and attach it to your tax return.

It works for me. I have never been charged for anything that I have made a note of. I never get a bill or notice!

Now, That is what I love about my government and the people who are too lazy to write a short note to the people in charge!

[Edwina's Secretary]

OH MY!

I was wrong.


I'd like all of you to take a post-it and write on it, "I DON'T WANT my hard earned money to go for this travesty of health care."

It works for me. I have never been charged for anything that I have made a note of. I never get a bill or notice!

Now, That is what I love about my government and the people who are too lazy to write a short note to the people in charge!

Can't just say "I was wrong" and be done with it can you? You have to insult people to boot. I guess we should be amazed you said you were wrong.

You were wrong. And you would have been wrong even if she did pay premiums to Kaiser. Just as you write above (I think) we all pay for it, regardless. Just because someone has medical insurance does not mean that no one but those who are also in that medical plan pay the expenses.

There are limited resources -- medical care, water, clean air, food, energy.

We need to start to understand that and act accordingly.

[cassiesmom]

this woman obsessed w/ child bearing (according to her parents)
Just a question, can this be considered a psychological obsession? Is there a diagnosis for an unreasonable obsession with pregnancy and birth? Because maybe that would have been a reasonable argument for the physicians to not implant all eight.



Consider that she has six other children to care for and ask yourself if it's reasonable or ethical to add more children to the mix.
Question again. If it is unreasonable or unethical for this woman with six children to bear eight more - which I definitely think it is, for reasons that have been well articulated elsewhere in this thread - what can be done about it? And whose responsibility is it - the medical community, the legal system, etc.? It is not biophysically responsible for this woman to have borne eight children at once. A bad decision on the doctor's part to allow the treatment to go forward. It is not fiscally responsible because all of the babies will incur massive medical bills that the mother is obviously not able to pay more than a minuscule portion of. They may very well have long-term complications of prematurity. None of the 14 will get the share of their mother's attention that they deserve. And there are other women in this world dealing with infertility.

[RICHARD]

Just a question, can this be considered a psychological obsession? Is there a diagnosis for an unreasonable obsession with pregnancy and birth? Because maybe that would have been a reasonable argument for the physicians to not implant all eight.


Question again. If it is unreasonable or unethical for this woman with six children to bear eight more - which I definitely think it is, for reasons that have been well articulated elsewhere in this thread - what can be done about it?

Yes, the grandma talked about it this afternoon, the mom was an only child and had problems with ther being an OC.:(

IF she had was implanted here in the U.S. 'ethically' there is a cutoff to the number of embryos that can be implanted., I am not familiar with what they would do to the clinic or physician. This may bring in new standards to bear against U.S. physicians, but if she went out of country to have it done there is pretty much nothing that can be done to sanction the parties who did it.


Oh, I talked to my tax man and he said it was quite all right to ask that none of my taxes be paid out to support this woman....

As if that was possible.

[blue]

There are limited resources -- medical care.

And your thoughts on Nationalized Healthcare are?

[Cinder & Smoke]

And your thoughts on Nationalized Healthcare are?

:mad:

I think this case of the 14 :eek: Kids is fast turning into an example of
"Nationalized Healthcare for the Few".

There's NO doubt (in my mind) that ALL these 14 Kids will be well cared for
(medically) for the rest of their lives - the News and the Public Outcries will
make sure of that.

And WHO's paying?
Good ole Cal-ee-fornia - with a lotta help from ALL of us in the form of
Federal subsidies to California.

Hope ya'll enjoy YOUR share of "our" Kids.

:rolleyes:
:mad:
:(

/s/ :( Phred

[Medusa]

She may not get all the donations, etc. that she hopes. People in this country are getting fed up w/bail outs of all kinds, companies are going out of business and/or laying off people daily at an alarming rate and there may not be the resources to contribute to this woman and her situation. It may not turn out the way she wants it to at all.

[pomtzu]

Obviously Big Brother can't tell a woman how many children she can or can't have, but can't Big Brother tell her how many that she will get public assistance for? Since I've never been on the receiving end of the hand out system, I don't know what limits, if any, that a woman is restricted to.
So before I say any more to upset the minorities here, does anyone know if there is a cap on the amount of money a woman can receive? Does she get a set amount for each child, or is it on a scale and the amount decreases with each additional child? :confused: Inquiring minds want to know!!!

ETA - Clarification
When I made reference to "minorities" - I was meaning the one/s here that don't seem to feel that giving away tax money to this person is a big issue. I don't want to start a civil war here on PT!

[KYS]

She doesn't have a job but wants lots of children which
is her dream.

Her dream is fine as long as she can care for and afford to care for them with-out my hard earned money..
At this point I hope she gets lots of $$$ deals so the tax payers do
not have to foot the bill. JMHO
Who was this Dr. anyway who implanted her when she already had 6 children and no job?

http://news.aol.com/article/octuplets-mom-speaks/331827?icid=100214839x1217997509x1201254495

[RICHARD]

She doesn't have a job but wants lots of children which
is her dream.

Her dream is fine as long as she can care for and afford to care for them with-out my hard earned money..
At this point I hope she gets lots of $$$ deals so the tax payers do
not have to foot the bill. JMHO
Who was this Dr. anyway who implanted her when she already had 6 children and no job?

http://news.aol.com/article/octuplets-mom-speaks/331827?icid=100214839x1217997509x1201254495


We are stuck with the bill, yet all the people who don't want the government or big brother getting involved with the 'sectshul' habits of the North American
Morons aren't happy either way.


Woman want to have birth control covered by BB, but don't want the men to have Viagra?

We want to have kids but don't want BB to control the embryo implantation numbers? " I want three and then tie the tubes!"

You can go to a clinic and get invitro 7 times like this woman has had, but other woman want the insurance to cover the cost of them getting treatments to get pregnant?


EFF THAT.

If you can't do it on your own, do a Angelina, I can't stand that kook, but at least she goes and takes care of the anklebiters from other countries.

This whole scene just shows the frantic labels we have put on motherhood and how 'invalid' women are if they can't become mothers.

We think that it's o.k., like the woman who lost her three kids in an accident then gets in-vitro to replace them, like three new humans will ever take up the room in her heart!

Then we have problems with some idiot who squeezes out eight at once?


-----------------

In the early years of EABs (abortions) you had to go see a shrink, now you can toss out any reason to kill a kid,

THe opposite is true with kids. No woman feels fulfilled unless they spend money trying to get pregnant..

I am tired of spending MY TAX dollars funding fertility clinics for women who are dumb enough to believe that popping out a kid makes them a More Valuable Person in the world.

[Grace]

Ellen Goodman has an opinion piece about this mess. the last paragraph pretty much sums it up -



But right now, a reproductive business that generates so much controversy has produced a remarkable consensus. Infertility treatment for an unemployed, single mother of six? Eight embryos in one womb? There must be a proper word in the medical literature to describe this achievement. I think the word is "nuts."

[Edwina's Secretary]

We are stuck with the bill, yet all the people who don't want the government or big brother getting involved with the 'sectshul' habits of the North American
Morons aren't happy either way.


Woman want to have birth control covered by BB, but don't want the men to have Viagra?

We want to have kids but don't want BB to control the embryo implantation numbers? " I want three and then tie the tubes!"

You can go to a clinic and get invitro 7 times like this woman has had, but other woman want the insurance to cover the cost of them getting treatments to get pregnant?


EFF THAT.

If you can't do it on your own, do a Angelina, I can't stand that kook, but at least she goes and takes care of the anklebiters from other countries.

This whole scene just shows the frantic labels we have put on motherhood and how 'invalid' women are if they can't become mothers.

We think that it's o.k., like the woman who lost her three kids in an accident then gets in-vitro to replace them, like three new humans will ever take up the room in her heart!

Then we have problems with some idiot who squeezes out eight at once?


-----------------

In the early years of EABs (abortions) you had to go see a shrink, now you can toss out any reason to kill a kid,

THe opposite is true with kids. No woman feels fulfilled unless they spend money trying to get pregnant..

I am tired of spending MY TAX dollars funding fertility clinics for women who are dumb enough to believe that popping out a kid makes them a More Valuable Person in the world.

Wow...that has to be the most misogynistic rant I have seen! Just Wow!

Why do you hate women so much???....and please...after reading the above there is NOTHING you can say that would suggest you do anything but hate women.

[blue]

Wow...that has to be the most misogynistic rant I have seen! Just Wow!

Why do you hate women so much???....and please...after reading the above there is NOTHING you can say that would suggest you do anything but hate women.

After reading your posts in this thread, about having to pay for this womans children with your tax dollars, I dont see much of a difference between his post and your posts.

Im suggesting that if a woman wrote what RICHARD did you wouldnt have a problem, but since RICHARD isnt a woman, yes I'm assuming here, you have a problem with what he wrote.

So why do you hate men and single mothers?

[Edwina's Secretary]

.

So why do you hate men and single mothers?

Okay...I understand "one for all and all for one"...but try ...reading. I have said repeatedly my issue is not with this woman's marital status, nor her ability to pay.

My issue is with the limited resources of the planet and people overbreeding. Married, single, divorced, widowed...don't care.

So please...to use your usual line....could you please show me WHERE I have demonstrated hate of single mothers or men? How about a link?

And didn't anyone every tell you about Assuming????

How about putting up or shutting up?

[blue]

Okay...I understand "one for all and all for one"...but try ...reading. I have said repeatedly my issue is not with this woman's marital status, nor her ability to pay.

My issue is with the limited resources of the planet and people overbreeding. Married, single, divorced, widowed...don't care.

So please...to use your usual line....could you please show me WHERE I have demonstrated hate of single mothers or men? How about a link?

And didn't anyone every tell you about Assuming????

How about putting up or shutting up?

You first. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that RICHARD hates women.

To quote you.


How about putting up or shutting up?

ETA: You have made the grand assumption that RICHARD Hates women.

[blue]

I did.

Coward.

No you didnt. Hypocrite.

[blue]

Well played....for a fouth grader.

According to you, RICHARD not wanting want to pay for said mothers 14 children he is a misogynist. You dont want to pay for said mothers 14 children, you are a misogynist and a hypocrite.

Edit: I got the quote in before you could delete your post!

[Edwina's Secretary]

You first. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that RICHARD hates women.

To quote you.



ETA: You have made the grand assumption that RICHARD Hates women.

In other words...you are unable to back up your statement that I "hate men and single moms." Got it. Odd...since earlier you wrote that.... from what I had written in this thread....you knew it.

Oh yeah...there is nothing that is "grand" nor is an "assumption" about my statement.

[Edwina's Secretary]

According to you, RICHARD not wanting want to pay for said mothers 14 children he is a misogynist. You dont want to pay for said mothers 14 children, you are a misogynist and a hypocrite.



Could you show me where I said I did not want to pay for "said mothers 14 children"?

Or, for that matter, where R said that?

[blue]

In other words...you are unable to back up your statement that I "hate men and single moms." Got it. Odd...since earlier you wrote that.... from what I had written in this thread....you knew it.

Oh yeah...there is nothing that is "grand" nor is an "assumption" about my statement.


Could you show me where I said I did not want to pay for "said mothers 14 children"?

Or, for that matter, where R said that?

I dont need to, you did it for me.
ETA: Im not the one who felt the need to delete a post in this thread.

[RICHARD]

I dont need to, you did it for me.
ETA: Im not the one who felt the need to delete a post in this thread.

Dude.

I am the hypocrite here in the dog house.

Please do not try to give away my title without consulting with me.

Thanks.;)

-----------


My government merely does what I tell it to do.

I ask for my tax dollars not to pay for things, I attach my request to my taxes and they oblige me and my wishes.

I am really surprised no one else has thought of this novel approach to making sure their tax dollars are spent wisely.



P.S. If no one saw the humor in that, heaven help us. On second thought, heaven has more pressing matters at the moment.

[Daisy and Delilah]

What are everyone's thoughts on the interviews with the mother of the octuplets? Does she look like she's overplumped her lips or is it just me? Not that there's anything wrong with this.:rolleyes:

For some reason, I just don't like this woman. I can't explain it.

[caseysmom]

What are everyone's thoughts on the interviews with the mother of the octuplets? Does she look like she's overplumped her lips or is it just me? Not that there's anything wrong with this.:rolleyes:

For some reason, I just don't like this woman. I can't explain it.

Her own mother calls what she has done deplorable...that pretty much sums up how I feel also.

[Medusa]

What are everyone's thoughts on the interviews with the mother of the octuplets? Does she look like she's overplumped her lips or is it just me? Not that there's anything wrong with this.:rolleyes:

For some reason, I just don't like this woman. I can't explain it.

The comparison to her w/Angelina Jolie is a little freaky for me. She's got the lips and the hair and now she has enough kids to start her own country. The differences between the two women is that Jolie can afford all those kids and she's adopted many rather than have them through IVF.

[lizbud]

The comparison to her w/Angelina Jolie is a little freaky for me. She's got the lips and the hair and now she has enough kids to start her own country. The differences between the two women is that Jolie can afford all those kids and she's adopted many rather than have them through IVF.



Wow, I had these same thoughts.:) An Angelina wanna be.:rolleyes:

[sasvermont]

Yes, her lips do look a bit fake. I tried to compare them to an earlier photo but was unable to see the details on my lousey TV. I think she is a nut case for sure and wouldn't be surprised that this entire child thing is based on her being a wanna be Angelina. Now, let's see, who could we send in to be Brad.


I watched her one interview with Ann Curry. I had to listen to her reasons etc. I am convinced she is a nut case now. A few of the babies were actually cute .... while a few of the others seemed oh so tiny and fragile.

Oh well, this too shall pass.

:rolleyes:

[Grace]

After seeing some of her interview with Ann Curry, and reading her mother's most recent comments - I'm wondering if Child Protective Services will be called into this case?

[Daisy and Delilah]

I think she must have gotten her lips done so she would be ready for the cameras. She may have had somebody come into the hospital to do it for her???

In the Ann Curry interview, her face looks plastic. I have to say she looks remarkably well for a woman that's just had 8 babies. I would hate to think what I would look like after the big event.:eek:

[RICHARD]

I really would like to see any of you try to deliver 8 babies and not have any body parts swell up.

I have to clear something up for the dense of brain cells. MY not wanting to 'pay' for the kids was a poke at the people who really believe the every tax dollar they earn goes to one thing only in the grand scheme of things.

Hey, I don't mind kicking in a few bucks for their care in the long run-I really find that the people who can't find any pity in their hearts for the kids really sad. THey had the same choice of parents that we all had.

Of course, My parents hated me and told me that they would have skipped over my birth and gone on to my other siblings.:rolleyes:


And for the record I was the one that called her an Angelina-sight unseen.

[Medusa]

Hey, I don't mind kicking in a few bucks for their care in the long run-I really find that the people who can't find any pity in their hearts for the kids really sad. THey had the same choice of parents that we all had.

And for the record I was the one that called her an Angelina-sight unseen.

We're not playing "Can you top this?", RICHARD, so you needn't worry about being bested. And I don't recall anyone saying that they don't have compassion for the babies or her other children.

[Grace]

I love this quote from an article I just read -

Judging from photos taken inside Angela's three-bedroom home, into which the whole clan is crammed, this is a family that would give Mary Poppins a stroke.

Angela is the grandmother of all 14 kids.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I really would like to see any of you try to deliver 8 babies and not have any body parts swell up.


I can see almost everything swelling except the lips!!:eek:

I was doing some reading on the internet last night. It seems that alot of people are wondering how she can afford her "new look".

I saw some older pictures of her. It's a drastic change. She was obviously planning this in advance, if anyone had any doubts.:rolleyes: Visions of mega bucks are dancing in her head.

[lizbud]

[QUOTE=Daisy and Delilah

I was doing some reading on the internet last night. It seems that alot of people are wondering how she can afford her "new look".

[/QUOTE]


I read that she got a very large settlement for a incident in the mental
health hospital where she used to work. She won over 100k in damages
awarded her for her injuries.

[sasvermont]

I thought she said/they said, she received a total of $165,000 in disability payments relating to the incident at the mental institution where she worked and that those payments just recently stopped. It was my understanding that the payments were made to her over a period of a few years. It is not uncommon to pay a lump sum up front when paying out on a disability. The insurance company usually pays off the medical liens and compensates for lost wages to date then pays the balance in monthly installments or until the person is no longer disabled. I have not a clue as to how she was paid. I suspect she knows how to milk the system at this point.

Having worked for a law firm that handled workers compensation cases, I have seen my share of scams. There are legitimate claims too, don't get me wrong, but I would say there are more scams than legitimate ones.

I think she is so stupid that she will end up doing herself in with all of the negative publicity she is opening herself up to right now. She will probably find someone to pay her large sums of money early on, but think how many years she will need to live off her parents, to survive.

I don't know why this woman irks me so. I suspect it is her stupidity - (lack of common sense) reminds me of some political figures we've discussed here lately. Actually, she reminds me of a "Stepford Wife"......remember that movie?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_eGvDykDM&feature=related

I predict that she will fade into the sunset after the children are discharged from the hospital.


P. S. Maybe Richard could befriend her and take care of her....and her many children. He lives nearby, right?

[pomtzu]

I read that she got a very large settlement for a incident in the mental
health hospital where she used to work. She won over 100k in damages
awarded her for her injuries.

I heard that too. Too bad she can't part with some of it and help take care of her 14 obligations.
I thought she looked remarkably good for just having 8 kids too - as much as I dislike her - I have to admit it. Most women (including myself), don't look that good so soon after having one! The wonders of makeup and the camera!
I heard on the news last night, that by the time all babies get out of the hospital, that the bill is expected to be between 1.5-3 mil. That's a big stretch, but even if it's on the low side, that's not exactly pocket change. And I for one, am one that objects to having to foot her bills. Hmmm - did I mention that before??? :rolleyes:
And I hate her "Miss Goody-Two-Shoes" attitude that I've seen in her interviews. I'm with Terry (D&D) - I just don't like her........

[Edwina's Secretary]

According to the news here she used her settlement for her back injury to pay for the invitro treatments.

[lizbud]

Well, all her problems are solved. She will use her student loans
to raise these children.:rolleyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29117041/

[Grace]

This woman is certifiable - IMHO. All she thinks about is herself.

I hope child welfare will get involved soon. I feel so bad for those kids.

[pomtzu]

According to the news here she used her settlement for her back injury to pay for the invitro treatments.

Well I imagine that lugging around those 8 babies didn't help her back any! :rolleyes: But that's okay - publicly funded medical care will take care of that for her too! :mad:

[Daisy and Delilah]

I also saw some pictures of the inside of her house. The place looked like a disaster area. Already crowded as can be, where will she put all these babies??

I barely had time to do anything when I was raising just two children. If they continue to live in the current house, she's going to have to rent a front end loader to get some of the clothes, toys, etc, moved so they can walk through the place. :rolleyes:

[lvpets2002]

:o Ummppss Now there is a No Good Idea..Somemore of her Non-Smart Thinking.. She is just trying to be a copy-cat of three differant other peoples life styles.. Now her dad said at one time there would be a bigg house somewhere they would all go with the babies when they all get out of the hospital..
Well, all her problems are solved. She will use her student loans
to raise these children.:rolleyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29117041/

[RICHARD]

P. S. Maybe Richard could befriend her and take care of her....and her many children. He lives nearby, right?


I offered my tax dollar to support her and her brood.

I am not into the Angelina Jolie looking gals. I'm more into redheads and blondes. Altho, I'd go for a roll in the hay with Kate Walsh. She could have all the kids she wants, and then some.

Actually, I am willing to share the expenses with my other CA taxpayers. They have way more sense then I do. <snort>

[lvpets2002]

:o The way I see it is before all is said & done we will all be supporting this family thru Welfare == to Taxes..
I offered my tax dollar to support her and her brood.

I am not into the Angelina Jolie looking gals. I'm more into redheads and blondes. Altho, I'd go for a roll in the hay with Kate Walsh. She could have all the kids she wants, and then some.

Actually, I am willing to share the expenses with my other CA taxpayers. They have way more sense then I do. <snort>

[Edwina's Secretary]

Actually, I am willing to share the expenses with my other CA taxpayers. They have way more sense then I do. <snort>


Finally! You have said something true on this thread! :D:D

[pomtzu]

Finally! You have said something true on this thread! :D:D

Tee-hee-hee!!!

[Grace]

Oh my goodness - can you believe this?


Octomom Now Accepting Cash & Credit Card Donations Online

Want to help a woman support 14 children, including octuplets? Just click on her new Web site – MasterCard, Visa, American Express and Discover all accepted.

The Nadya Suleman Family Web site provides a PayPal link for donations from the public, plus a street address to mail in money and items, care of Suleman's publicists.

Established on Tuesday afternoon by husband-and-wife reps Joann Killeen and Mike Furtney, who are working for free for the controversial Suleman (who is receiving food stamps and other public assistance), the site also has photos of the six boys and two girls as well as a page to send comments.

The reps wouldn't say how much money has come in so far, but that Suleman already has received offers for baby clothes and cribs – as well as offers of donations for her older six children.

"We're getting so many calls and people writing in," Killeen says. "It's nice to see so many people are opening up their closets and hearts."

HERE (http://www.thenadyasulemanfamily.com/) is the link.

[Karen]

Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

[Medusa]

Oh my goodness - can you believe this?



HERE (http://www.thenadyasulemanfamily.com/) is the link.


Wow.

[pomtzu]

Absolutely ludicrous!!!

[RICHARD]

I like it!

I think that Stan Lee can make her into a comic book hero..


OCTOMOM, purveyor of childbirth and can milk the system with powers above those of mortal woman!

OCTOMOM, Able to leap piles of diapers in a single bound!
OCTOMOM, By day, an abnormal wacko with no sense of right!
OCTOMOM, Who can polarize threads with her reproductive powers!
OCTOMOM, Who will not sleep a wink for the next four years!

Look, Pushing the strollers!
It's a mom, it's a shame! No......
IT's OCTOMOM!!!!!

----------

Guess who will play her in the Lifetime Movie?

[caseysmom]

I left her a comment....

[Moesha]

I'm not going to click on the link, but for those of you that did, I have a question. Are there ads there? So would she be getting money from advertisers just for people looking at the web page even without donating?

[caseysmom]

No, there are no ads. I doubt if any companies want to be associated with her.

[blue]

I left her a comment....

Do you have to leave a comment to read the other comments, or am I not seeing the right link?

[Nomilynn]

I'm wondering if comments are screened.. I only found a space to leave a comment, not read any of them. When you left the comment, could you read others?

[moosmom]

Anyone care to comment on this unemployed idiot and her 14 illegitimate children???

Selfish and inconsiderate. I feel bad for her Mom. Her mother actually went to the doctor and begged him not to do this. She's living on a $50,000 student loan (she's not going to school) (how ya gonna pay that kinda money back with no job??) and doesn't consider food stamps as aid. Only a temporary thing. Her six kids at home have medical problems. I feel VERY sorry for the residents of the State of California.

Personally, I think those babies need DCF help.

Oh yeah, and now she's got a website up asking for DONATIONS!!!!:eek:

What Chudzpah!!

[Daisy and Delilah]

Donna, there's another thread about this under the "Ms. Pelosi" heading.

This woman is a piece of work. It seems she's spent alot of time on getting herself dolled up and prepared for all the money she wants to haul in. Too bad she doesn't seem to have time to act like a mother and be a little humble for what's just happened.

This has to be one of the craziest things I've ever heard about. I'm flabbergasted every time I hear more about it. I really believe this woman planned this thing from the beginning for her own welfare. Maybe the children should be taken away from her because I think she's a certified wacko.:( :eek: :mad:

[Sirrahsim]

A lot of student loans are cancelled in the event of the death of the "student". I have heard that more people than you might think just plan to make minimum payments all their lives and have no real plan to actually pay back the full amount.

I agree that DCF should be involved.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I don't see any place where we can read the comments. It's probably part of the facade they've added to make the site look more appealing.

I would love to read the comments she's getting. I think they all would be screened and censored out.:eek: :eek: :eek:
I can't imagine anyone saying anything encouraging to her.:(

[sasvermont]

I left a comment and did not see any previous comments. They didn't seem available. My guess is that was not a mistake.

I suggest we find the web page for the handlers and send them a comment. What sleeze bags.

I am sure there are folks out there wanting to donate things to this woman and I think that may be her main saving grace. I wonder how much money she will get in donations. I wonder if any companies will endorse her adventure?

:rolleyes:

I watched another clip on the news about another interview she gave and it mentioned in the summary that she will have at least 10 children in diapers at the same time.

[Randi]

My question - what doctor in his/her right mind would treat a woman for infertility when she had undergone 5 pregnancies, resulting in 6 children over the previous 6 years?
My question too. :confused: I doubt it would be allowed here!

A few centuries ago, it was normal to have up to approx. 6-10 children, but imagine if this goes on and on and on.... how long do you think our planet can cope?

[sasvermont]

http://killeenfurtneygroup.com/Index.cfm

I sent an email.

:mad:

[caseysmom]

I don't see anywhere to read others comments...that no doubt would be entertaining:D

[RICHARD]

NO, The California Idiot is right here.


You are thinking about OCTOMOM!:confused:

[Taz_Zoee]

She is getting exactly what she wanted. Publicity and $$$$. I wonder how much 20/20 paid her for the first interview with her? It's just SICK!!!

Oh, and I thought I had heard that her mother moved out and wanted nothing to do with them. :confused:

Yeah, I heard about the website asking for donations this morning on the radio. And like the DJs said, some people will donate because if you think about it...it's not the babies fault. They didn't ask to be brought into this world (especially under these circumstances), but ultimately they would be the ones to suffer without help. It's just a sad stupid tragedy. And I would hope that doctor(s) would lose their practice.

[RICHARD]

My question too. :confused: I doubt it would be allowed here!

A few centuries ago, it was normal to have up to approx. 6-10 children, but imagine if this goes on and on and on.... how long do you think our planet can cope?

Randi,

Last century my mom had six......;)

The 'moral' outrage is really funny out here. Instead of being angry at the stupid doctor, the masses are angry at the stupid woman.

Yes, we all pay taxes and have to support this debacle in human form, but no one seems to mind that we all have to pay for the stupid people who the government has to help out because they bought houses they could not afford, invested money they had in stupid stocks. We have to hand out money to banks and other businesses because of their stupidity.

It's far easier to unload on some dumb dingleberry because she has a face and is not a faceless giant of industry.


Also, there are the arguements about the government regulating the 'birth' industry- Women complain about it all the time, but want their cake too.

If the government stepped in an outlawed all in-vitro births you would have a real hell storm here in the U.S.

It's o.k. for some women to have a set of twins or triplets-but by the same token, there are the people/couples so effing desperate to have their 'own' kids that they would have four or five embryos implanted to be guaranteed one child.

It's the circus that AMerica is sometimes!:rolleyes:

[Laura's Babies]

This discussion was on Dr. Phil yesterday and this is what they said.. She had all her kids this way. She was implanted with SIX each time and most of the time she only had 1 baby, once she had twins. This time she was implanted with 8 and when the doctor realized she had 8 babies in there, selective reduction should have been done..

However, they were mostly angry and blamed the doctor for ever implanting her anyway given that she already had 6, no job, no income or means of support and seems to have mental problems. Just lookimng at her income level, he should have refused. Just looking at the fact that she already have 6, he should have refused.

Someone from the Dr. Phil show went into the home with a camera and they already have kids stacked everywhere in there. There is NO room in that house for more kids.. Dr Phil said one thing she never considered was that they could take all those kids away from her and that is what he thinks needs to be done.. I agree.. Forget the cost of taking cost of all of them for a minute.. How many people is it going to take to feed those babies in one day, to change the diapers, to bathe them. How does she plan to keep up with the laundry? it will take more than 2 people, that is for sure!

I think they said she already has 2 special need kids at home and they expect that several of these will be special needs. She just will not be able to do it without tons of help. Who does she think is going to help?

[gini]

When it is all said and done...............my heart just breaks for the 14 children she has had.

[Daisy and Delilah]

The Whittier Daily News website has some pictures of the inside of the house. Unreal!! I believe that's where I saw them--it might be a link I accessed from there. Also, pictures of her awhile back, looking like a totally different person. I had originally thought she had her lips done but now I think it's more than that.:rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes:

I also feel sorry for those poor kids. How can she pretend to be such a great mother when she seems to have herself as the number one priority? She angers me to no end!!

[Daisy and Delilah]

The single fact that she had 6 children and wanted more through IVF is enough to make me highly suspicious of her. Especially not in her situation. This was a plan and she's succeeding at achieving her goal, slowly but surely.:(

[Karen]

My question too. :confused: I doubt it would be allowed here!

A few centuries ago, it was normal to have up to approx. 6-10 children, but imagine if this goes on and on and on.... how long do you think our planet can cope?

That's because it was rare for them all to survive to adulthood! And growing your own help was cheaper than hiring help to work the farm/fields ...

[Randi]

Yes, that's true, Karen, and it's still like that in undeveloped countries, but in the Western world it's not neccesary anymore.

I think China is handling it well!

[lvpets2002]

That's because it was rare for them all to survive to adulthood! And growing your own help was cheaper than hiring help to work the farm/fields ...

:o Yes that is very true.. And yes they All lived off of their own farms.. They milked their own cows & grew their own veggies & had their hogs & cattle for meat.. I see this silly women living off of the Media & goverment handouts & ect.. She just makes me want to do this..

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/lvpets2002/15225.gif

[Catty1]

This letter to the editor in the Calgary Sun today (Feb 12) struck a chord. I think this sums it up, though it was about the 60 year old here who had twins. (She also has a large, supportive extended family which includes a husband and a sibling or two).


PREGNANCIES SEEM SELFISH

Re: Give new mom a break, Martin Hudson, Feb. 8. While I do agree with the spirit of the column and am trying not to judge, I would never state an opinion on whether they are unfit or not. But there seems to be a running theme in all the reports; from both of these women there is a lot of "me" and "I wanted" and "I need." It seems these births are all about them and what they wanted but not what perhaps would be best for the child or children. A selfish theme of "I want" with these pregnancies does not bode well for their upbringing. Like kittens and puppies, babies are a temporary state and parents are actually supposed to be raising future adults, a state in which children spend the majority of their time on earth. If you know you will not be around for their adolescence or you are a single mother of 12 to 15 children and have no time at all, how it is in the child's best interest to be born or it is just because you "want" something? Selfishness may not be crazy but perhaps it is worse. If they were truly crazy they would not have been allowed to breed.

Shannon Navarrete

[Freckles]

Dr. Phil's show for 2/12/2009 is titled "Octuplets Scandal".

[RICHARD]

This letter to the editor in the Calgary Sun today (Feb 12) struck a chord. I think this sums it up, though it was about the 60 year old here who had twins. (She also has a large, supportive extended family which includes a husband and a sibling or two).

Couples today do not give the same respect that parenthood is due...
When is anyone gonna bag on the father? I can guess it would have happened even is she didn't know the guy, but when is everyone going to make a beeline to his doorstep and look for accountability?

Again,

There are a few people are stupid, selfish and oh, so idiotic when it comes to 'making' babies.

I go back to the woman in Cah Lee Fuh Nee ah that lost her three kids when a truck hit the car they were in. She goes to have three to replace the lost kids, by in-vitro and her life is complete again.

I say BS and it shows that some people refuse to move on and live a normal life- This couple decides to get a replacement set of kids.

Me? I'd be too heartbroken to even think about 'replacing' my children.


It's all done, because they can do it and there is no respect for 'birthing' children anymore. In-vitro for the selfish, is just about status and some parents parade the kids around with the modifier- This is our little miracle!


I can hardly wait until we can order 'Kustom Kids' and then watch the eff ups that will come from that!

Don't mess with mom nature!

[pomtzu]

I go back to the woman in Cah Lee Fuh Nee ah that lost her three kids when a truck hit the car they were in. She goes to have three to replace the lost kids, by in-vitro and her life is complete again.

I say BS and it shows that some people refuse to move on and live a normal life- This couple decides to get a replacement set of kids.

Me? I'd be too heartbroken to even think about 'replacing' my children.


!

I'm not comparing pets to kids here, but isn't this the same as many people do when they lose a furbaby? Somehow your life is very empty and lonely when you lose a beloved animal, just as a human's is when they lose a child, so you get another to fill the void. Saying that you're making a replacement is rather harsh. Some people want a child in their life to love, and tho the one they had is gone, there can be another, but never a replacement. No different than getting another dog, or cat or bunny - or whatever!

Octomom didn't lose any - just added more to her already chaotic life.

[Grace]

Has anyone noticed her hands? In the video you can see her perfect nails - how does one manage that taking care of 6 kids? How does one afford the cost?

[phesina]

When is anyone gonna bag on the father? I can guess it would have happened even is she didn't know the guy, but when is everyone going to make a beeline to his doorstep and look for accountability?


EXCELLENT, Richard.

[phesina]

Has anyone noticed her hands? In the video you can see her perfect nails - how does one manage that taking care of 6 kids? How does one afford the cost?

I noticed them, too. Those white-capped fingernails as she powders the tiny baby's butt..

[Edwina's Secretary]

I go back to the woman in Cah Lee Fuh Nee ah that lost her three kids when a truck hit the car they were in. She goes to have three to replace the lost kids, by in-vitro and her life is complete again.

I say BS and it shows that some people refuse to move on and live a normal life- This couple decides to get a replacement set of kids.

Me? I'd be too heartbroken to even think about 'replacing' my children.


I become so angry every time you MISREPRESENT this situation.

This couple had three children. The children were killed in a tragic accident. The mother was driving -- stopped on an exit ramp when she was rear-ended by a semi traveling at a high rate of speed.

The children were all killed.

Because of her age, remaining childbearing years and other medical consideration she, her husband and her doctors chose invitro.

Because of her age three embryos were implanted in the hopes of one healthy child. All three "took" and she was delivered of triplets.

They very much wanted to be parents. I do not think it was a "miracle" but rather a private decision and a medical outcome.

I do not know how I would feel or what I would do if my three children were killed and neither do you RICHARD. You do not know you would be "too heartbroken" to think of having more children.

And I think your statement that they should "move on and live a normal life" and to suggest they were after "replacement children" is disgusting.

However, very typical that you speak of "her" and what "she" did wrong immediately after complaining about people not holding fathers responsible.

If you actually read anything about this story you would know how often she and her husband have spoken of that their lives will never be the same and will always ache for the loss of the three children. But of course, you know better than they do.

[Edwina's Secretary]

In-vitro for the selfish, is just about status and some parents parade the kids around with the modifier- This is our little miracle!



And this statement...In-vitro is for the selfish...is the second most offensive thing you wrote.

Petty, jealous, sour, and yes...selfish.

[blue]

I become so angry every time you MISREPRESENT this situation.

This couple had three children. The children were killed in a tragic accident. The mother was driving -- stopped on an exit ramp when she was rear-ended by a semi traveling at a high rate of speed.

The children were all killed.

Because of her age, remaining childbearing years and other medical consideration she, her husband and her doctors chose invitro.

Because of her age three embryos were implanted in the hopes of one healthy child. All three "took" and she was delivered of triplets.

They very much wanted to be parents. I do not think it was a "miracle" but rather a private decision and a medical outcome.

I do not know how I would feel or what I would do if my three children were killed and neither do you RICHARD. You do not know you would be "too heartbroken" to think of having more children.

And I think your statement that they should "move on and live a normal life" and to suggest they were after "replacement children" is disgusting.

However, very typical that you speak of "her" and what "she" did wrong immediately after complaining about people not holding fathers responsible.

If you actually read anything about this story you would know how often she and her husband have spoken of that their lives will never be the same and will always ache for the loss of the three children. But of course, you know better than they do.


And this statement...In-vitro is for the selfish...is the second most offensive thing you wrote.

Petty, jealous, sour, and yes...selfish.

The angry is strong with you.

[pomtzu]

The angry is strong with you.

Justifiably so IMO. I have to agree 100% - that the situation was misrepresented yet again. ES said exactly what I was trying to express a few posts earlier, however, she has a way with words that I lack.
Just the suggestion that the children of the ones that were lost in the accident were merely replacements, is so cruel, heartless and narrow minded. I found it to be quite offensive, and anyone that has children (and MOST who don't), would never believe it was the intention of having another child/children merely as a "replacement".

Total your car in an accident, and most likely you can replace it with one exactly like it. Would you even WANT to do the same with a child????

[Grace]

He's at it again -

Dr. Michael Kamrava, the in-vitro fertilization specialist responsible for Octomom, has over-impregnated another woman - this time with quadruplets.

This time a 49 year old, with 3 grown children, married for the 2nd time, and wanting a baby. Word is he implanted 7 embryos this time.

LINK (http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-me-octuplets13-2009feb13,0,457763.story)

[DJFyrewolf36]

WARNING: This is a personal opnion, disagreement is bound to happen so lets leave it at that ;)

I have lost a child. My first child was stillborn at full term. I now have a healthy, happy wonderful little boy that I love with all my heart. Do I think I was emotionally ready after my daughters death to have another child? No I honestly do not. The thought of getting pregnant again scared the ever living cr@p out of me. Would I have sought out a way to get pregnant again by any means? No I wouldn't have. For some reason God wanted me to have another child. For some reason God wanted to call my first child home. I believe everything happens for a reason. When a woman is impregnated to me it seems as if people are putting trust in science rather than God. THEY want a child right THEN so they take it upon themselves to make a decision that might not be best for the mother or the children involved. Conversely, I didn't want a child however I became pregnant and I learned from the situation. I count my child as a blessing, even doubly so because I was told I could never have children naturally again. My little boy wants for nothing and I will fight to the death to make sure it stays that way! This woman in my opinion does not want children for the joy of having children. She wants children for the joy of having attention. If she TRUELY wanted these kids, she would accept the blessings of others with humility and try her hardest to make sure she was giving each and every one of those kids the attention they deserve and need from their mother instead of parading around like a media whore (pardon my language but it fits).

Maybe not all in-vitro parents are selfish people, in fact I am sure of it. The ones that ARE selfish are those who do it simply for the attention they know having a child will get them. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong with this woman and the way she is presenting herself.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Maybe not all in-vitro parents are selfish people, in fact I am sure of it. The ones that ARE selfish are those who do it simply for the attention they know having a child will get them. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong with this woman and the way she is presenting herself.

I could not agree with you more. The Octomom is nuts. Plain and simple. I do not think she has enough self-awareness to realize how selfish her conduct is -- but it is.

However, to make ANY comparison to her and the couple who tragically lost their children is obscene.

I cannot help but wonder what kind of a "normal" life the OP thinks the couple will EVER live after losing their children. As you have so eloquently shown us the pain does not go away whether you have more children or not.

I am happy for you in your son...

[DJFyrewolf36]

I could not agree with you more. The Octomom is nuts. Plain and simple. I do not think she has enough self-awareness to realize how selfish her conduct is -- but it is.

However, to make ANY comparison to her and the couple who tragically lost their children is obscene.

I cannot help but wonder what kind of a "normal" life the OP thinks the couple will EVER live after losing their children. As you have so eloquently shown us the pain does not go away whether you have more children or not.

I am happy for you in your son...

I am honestly glad to see we agree on something :) Thank you for your reply! I can say from personal experience that there is no "normal" life after losing a child, none whatsoever.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The angry is strong with you.

You betcha! Arrogance, lack of compassion, hubris, misogyny...have that affect on me. And when they are all together in one post....

I forgot ignorance!

[caseysmom]

Now now ES be a good girl and don't question the men with guns!

And...just for you....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDOvgcAGOok

[RICHARD]

Has anyone noticed her hands? In the video you can see her perfect nails - how does one manage that taking care of 6 kids? How does one afford the cost?

It's a new invention for moms, they are indicators for moms with multiples.
They turn brown when you change too many diapers.:eek:

----------------+
Disclaimer.

Don't read my posts if you feel that your head may explode after you do so.

I'd hate to have harmed someone by having them read an opinion.

Please be warned that I will post and you will be upset.

Get over it. It's just an opinion and I happen to pass over quite a few posting that I choose not to read or reply to. And if you choose to read them, read carefully and que no se te sube la azucar.


Get over your bad selves. I did and it's refreshing.


The three kids born to the crash mom ARE REPLACEMENTS. That woman was just as effing goofy as the OCTOMOM- She could have had one kid and stopped, This loon went for three at once and what else would that imply?
People are way more stupid that we give them credit for.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The three kids born to the crash mom ARE REPLACEMENTS. That woman was just as effing goofy as the OCTOMOM- She could have had one kid and stopped, This loon went for three at once and what else would that imply?
People are way more stupid that we give them credit for.

I have no intention of stopping as long as you continue to post your warped lies that you pass off as opinions.

I have known women who had invitro -- and there was nothing selfish about it. After women are past a certain age the doctors implant more than one embryo because the chances are less that any will take. A friend of mine who is over 40 had five implanted. None took.

Your ignorance is astounding. But more than that is your antipathy toward women. Obviously you stopped reading this story when you had enough to castigate another woman.

Now run along and post another thread about "your perfect woman" or "valentine's day" or the like to try and cover for your misogyny.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Now now ES be a good girl and don't question the men with guns!

And...just for you....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDOvgcAGOok

I have a theory about men with guns but that is for another thread...:D;):D

Funny video...

[blue]

You betcha! Arrogance, lack of compassion, hubris, misogyny...have that affect on me. And when they are all together in one post....

I forgot ignorance!

Why is it I get the feeling if Richards name was Richardina you would have agreed with her posts?


I have a theory about men with guns but that is for another thread...:D;):D

Im sure your theory is as insulting, belittleing and degrading as the rest of your theories and opinions of others who dissagree with you.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Why is it I get the feeling if Richards name was Richardina you would have agreed with her posts?



Im sure your theory is as insulting, belittleing and degrading as the rest of your theories and opinions of others who dissagree with you.

How droll....

Give it a try Blue. Post that this couple who chose to use invitro after their three children were killed made a choice that was right for them and NOT a sick replacement child thing. See if I agree with you? ;-)

[Puckstop31]

Ya know.... If you really cared about these children, or anybodies children, we would be talking about this "stimulus" bill that is about to flush our kids future down the tubes.

And speaking of ignorance... I wonder if anybody in Congress has read an honest history book?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

-- Cicero , 55 BC

[Karen]

Please get this thread out of the realm of personal attacks. Belittling others is not necessary, and not part of the spirit of Pet Talk. I think we all know how certain of you feel about each other, and don't need to see it reiterated again and again. It is not helpful, conducive to dialogue, or good for the community.

I do agree that "Octomom" - who should be referred to as Tetradecamom, as she now has 14 children - is not stable or sane, and that her physician, if he had knowledge of her mental state, should be investigated and disciplined.

I hope all her children get enough love and support and care from the extended community, and their health and well-being are not further compromised by Ms. Suleman's mental issues. They will all be in my prayers. They did not ask to be born, after all.

[DJFyrewolf36]

Please get this thread out of the realm of personal attacks. Belittling others is not necessary, and not part of the spirit of Pet Talk. I think we all know how certain of you feel about each other, and don't need to see it reiterated again and again. It is not helpful, conducive to dialogue, or good for the community.

I do agree that "Octomom" - who should be referred to as Tetradecamom, as she now has 14 children - is not stable or sane, and that her physician, if he had knowledge of her mental state, should be investigated and disciplined.

I hope all her children get enough love and support and care from the extended community, and their health and well-being are not further compromised by Ms. Suleman's mental issues. They will all be in my prayers. They did not ask to be born, after all.

I agree completely. I see both sides of this argument and see good points in both. However I think people can agree to disagree ;)

[pomtzu]

The three kids born to the crash mom ARE REPLACEMENTS. That woman was just as effing goofy as the OCTOMOM-

IMO - you know not of what you speak!

BTW - do you have any children? Just curious.............

[Daisy and Delilah]

WARNING: This is a personal opnion, disagreement is bound to happen so lets leave it at that ;)

I have lost a child. My first child was stillborn at full term. I now have a healthy, happy wonderful little boy that I love with all my heart. Do I think I was emotionally ready after my daughters death to have another child? No I honestly do not. The thought of getting pregnant again scared the ever living cr@p out of me. Would I have sought out a way to get pregnant again by any means? No I wouldn't have. For some reason God wanted me to have another child. For some reason God wanted to call my first child home. I believe everything happens for a reason. When a woman is impregnated to me it seems as if people are putting trust in science rather than God. THEY want a child right THEN so they take it upon themselves to make a decision that might not be best for the mother or the children involved. Conversely, I didn't want a child however I became pregnant and I learned from the situation. I count my child as a blessing, even doubly so because I was told I could never have children naturally again. My little boy wants for nothing and I will fight to the death to make sure it stays that way! This woman in my opinion does not want children for the joy of having children. She wants children for the joy of having attention. If she TRUELY wanted these kids, she would accept the blessings of others with humility and try her hardest to make sure she was giving each and every one of those kids the attention they deserve and need from their mother instead of parading around like a media whore (pardon my language but it fits).

Maybe not all in-vitro parents are selfish people, in fact I am sure of it. The ones that ARE selfish are those who do it simply for the attention they know having a child will get them. To me, there is something fundamentally wrong with this woman and the way she is presenting herself.

Very well said. I loved reading it. I can tell it's straight from your heart.

[Grace]

If you really cared about these children, or anybodies children, we would be talking about this "stimulus" bill that is about to flush our kids future down the tubes.

The stimulus is being discussed here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=150250), here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=150539), and here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=150392).

Is it necessary to bring it into this topic?

[RICHARD]

Please get this thread out of the realm of personal attacks.

I do agree that "Octomom" - who should be referred to as Tetradecamom, as she now has 14 children - is not stable or sane, and that her physician, if he had knowledge of her mental state, should be investigated and disciplined.




I don't take things personally.


LOL, I was a total loss at anything "math"- I appreciate your correcting me by naming the proper term!

--------------

I do not have any children, Fortunately, I realized that I my desires to have a whole shiat load of kiddies would fit into my ethnic and religious upbringing, But, LO! God blesseth me with common sense, the realization that I am a better person when I can give kids back to their parents and thought that the
planet I grew up in is not the same planet they would be left with.

Plus, If I cannot behave on this website, what would my offspring be like?


Also, I didn't want them to hang around with ninnies who run the country, always have the "right" opinion and will not take responsibility for screwing up my earth.:(

-------------------

Blue,

Richardina? I'll call my next goldfish that in your honor.:cool:

I think that some people are obsessed with stupidity (Me) and are on some kind of stalking trip!:D:confused:

[pomtzu]

--------------

I do not have any children,



I didn't think so. No one that has/had children would ever agree with your thoughts on "replacements". Again - IMO :p

[Edwina's Secretary]

I didn't think so. No one that has/had children would ever agree with your thoughts on "replacements". Again - IMO :p

Potmtzu...I would expand on that...I don't think anyone who has ever loved a child would ever agree with those thoughts on "replacements."

[DJFyrewolf36]

I've had kids and I know there are some people whou would think of children as "replacements".

Its a sad fact that for any obsurd notion there is SOMEONE on this planet that proves it to be true. Its just the way this world works :(

[RICHARD]

I didn't think so. No one that has/had children would ever agree with your thoughts on "replacements". Again - IMO :p

So, that discounts my opinion?

The woman had three kids thru AI, what do you think she was thinking at the time?:confused:

--------------
Grace,

I thought at least one person needed 'stimulus' to get er done!:D

[pomtzu]

So, that discounts my opinion?

The woman had three kids thru AI, what do you think she was thinking at the time?:confused:



Everyone has an opinion - just as everyone has an...........well - I think you know how that one goes! :p

And I think she was thinking of having another child, since when multiples are implanted, they don't very often all take - if any at all!!! You can't "replace" a child with another - and I'll argue that one till my last breath! You can make room in your heart and in your life for another and different one, but you can never "replace" the one that is gone!!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

I've had kids and I know there are some people whou would think of children as "replacements".

Its a sad fact that for any obsurd notion there is SOMEONE on this planet that proves it to be true. Its just the way this world works :(

I am so sorry you have known such people.

Perhaps we need to define "replacement."

I have told my husband if anything happens to me the best way he can honor my memory is to find someone to be with.

Not a replacement for me.

If being with me made his life richer and better, I would want him to have that experience again. Why should he be alone because I am gone? It does me no good.

And I know he has a big enough heart to have loved me and to love again.

If what has been described on here as "replacement children" were such...wouldn't that by extension mean every couple that has more than one child is "replacing?"

People can survive loss and love again...that doesn't mean they are replacing the lost one...just that they enjoyed loving so much they want to continue doing it.

Pomtzu says it so beautifully...
You can make room in your heart and in your life for another and different one, but you can never "replace" the one that is gone!!!

[cassiesmom]

I was waiting on a long checkout line at the supermarket today and the cover of one of the tabloids suggested something about this mother that gave me the shivers. It has a picture of her next to a picture of Angelina Jolie, and it said that she wants to look like Angelina Jolie (even had plastic surgery to achieve that goal) and to have a big family like her. (shiver) It seems to me a bad reason to have octuplets. I can't help but wonder if all of this publicity is only compounding the problem. If the press left her and the babies alone, might that be a reality check for her?

[DJFyrewolf36]

Again I find myself agreeing with you, ES. I would want my husband to move on with his life too if anything were to happen to me. However I at least was talking about people who have a child to literally replace a lost one, giving it the same name and not telling it about its sibling...never mentioning anything about what happened at all. It seems like something you'd see in books but Ive known someone that this happened to. Her parents never told her about what happened and it wasnt until she was an adult that she found some paperwork pointing her to the truth. People like that are truely disgusting IMO. Moving on is one thing, something like this is quite another.

Cassiesmom: I think that if she didn't get any special attention for her first six, she wouldn't have tried a stunt like this to get even more attention. Right now the best thing for this situation is for people to just ignore her but she has good publicists who have made this in to a money making circus act. Hopefully all this wont negitively impact the children but I have a feeling that it will. :(

[Edwina's Secretary]

Fyrewolf....that is a sad story. But there are people who abuse their children, nonetheless I am not prepared to assume everyone who has children abuses them. Likewise, I am not willing to assume because a couple loses their children in a tragic accident and decide to have more children they are engaged in some sick "child replacement" thing. (Especially since, as has been pointed out repeatedly, they did not go into the invitro to have three children...it happened - it was not planned.)

And I agree with you and Cassiesmom. This woman needs LESS publicity. I turn off the t.v. if she comes on and will not buy magazines with anything about her.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have been trying to figure out why Nancy Pelosi's name is in the title of this thread.

Is there any reason other than the OP's obsession with superior women?

[blue]

I have been trying to figure out why Nancy Pelosi's name is in the title of this thread.

Is there any reason other than the OP's obsession with superior women?

Im trying to find the news clip RICHARDwina was basing this thread on.

But are you realy call Nancy "Mussolini" Pelosi superior? And if you are please explain who she is superior to.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But are you realy call Nancy "Mussolini" Pelosi superior? And if you are please explain who she is superior to.

I have no idea who Nancy "Mussolini" Pelosi is but I am referring to the Speaker of the House...the third most powerful politician in the United States.

You may have heard of her. :D:D

And are you stalking me? You seem to attack me whenever I post without adding anything to the thread.

[blue]

I have no idea who Nancy "Mussolini" Pelosi is but I am referring to the Speaker of the House...the third most powerful politician in the United States.

You may have heard of her. :D:D

And are you stalking me? You seem to attack me whenever I post without adding anything to the thread.

So you know who Nancy Pelosi is but not Nancy "Mussolini" Pelosi is, Ill clue you in they are the third most powerful polititian in the USA.

So power means superior to you?

And I could ask you the same question about stalking, at least when I reply to your posts I dont make belittling or insulting comments about you.

[Edwina's Secretary]

So...to get back on subject...what does Nancy Pelosi have to do with this woman birthing 14 children?

Anyone know?

[caseysmom]

So...to get back on subject...what does Nancy Pelosi have to do with this woman birthing 14 children?

Anyone know?

Because she has spoken of birth control in her life...come on ES:D

[blue]

So...to get back on subject...what does Nancy Pelosi have to do with this woman birthing 14 children?

Anyone know?

Because the OP from the OP decided it should.


My state senator, the esteemed Nancy Pelosi, and Speaker of the House -commented about contraception and how it would effect the economy if 'unwanted' babies were never to be concieved.

This might be the video RICHARDwina was referring to, link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by4AIUqzhmw&feature=related). In this video, Mussolini in a skirt Pelosi dosent refer to 'unwanted' children, but children in general. Less money for children's health and education equals more money for the states fiscal health.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Because she has spoken of birth control in her life...come on ES:D

Oh of course! So let me see if I understand. Birth control is a bad thing...14 children is a good thing???

Where would I be without you to explain these things to me CM???;):rolleyes::D:D

[blue]

Because she has spoken of birth control in her life...come on ES:D

A mother of 5, grandmother of 7, Mrs Pelosi telling others how many kids they should have so she can have more state and federal funds to further her own idealisms? Idealisms that in the end will not affect her in any way shape or form, finacially, or socially.

Pushing for more federal dollars, on top of the California state dollars, for contraceptives for US citizens as part of a stimulus package, thats saying lets spend money to save money.

None of us want our tax dollars to go to this womanedit*OctoMom*, but I would not deny the children my tax money if it meant their lives.

My conclusion from Mrs Nancy Mussolini Pelosi's statement is, its cheaper to abort then support.

[blue]

I missed this one.


How droll....

Give it a try Blue. Post that this couple who chose to use invitro after their three children were killed made a choice that was right for them and NOT a sick replacement child thing. See if I agree with you? ;-)

Droll?

If a couple who just lost their three kids, uses invitro to have 3 more kids, as tragic as the situation may be, without any other knowlege of the family history, I would call that replacing the three dead children.

I didnt call it sick, in fact I could allmost maybe understand the reasoning behind it, but I would still call it replacement.

Even if you ever even remotely agreed with me on anything, I doubt you would admit to it.

ETA: I could even see a dad who just lost his three children push his wife to have invitro to replace the kids he tragicaly lost.

[pomtzu]

I missed this one.





If a couple who just lost their three kids, uses invitro to have 3 more kids, as tragic as the situation may be, without any other knowlege of the family history, I would call that replacing the three dead children.

I didnt call it sick, in fact I could allmost maybe understand the reasoning behind it, but I would still call it replacement.



ETA: I could even see a dad who just lost his three children push his wife to have invitro to replace the kids he tragicaly lost.


That's idotic - blu. I know for sure that you don't have any kids, the same as Richard! You CAN'T EVER replace a child that has been lost.

[Medusa]

You CAN'T EVER replace a child that has been lost.


In actuality, that is true. However, there are people who believe that you can. When I was first married, my husband and I went to our family dr. for complete physicals. When the dr. heard that I was on birth control and was considering having my tubes tied, he said "You should reconsider. If something should happen to your son, (this was my second marriage) God forbid, you'll want to have more children". I said "No, I wouldn't. I'd be too heartbroken. Besides, you can't replace children like cattle". He said "You would change your mind and then it would be too late". However we feel, there are still people who feel that if a child dies, you can possibly fill the void w/another one. I think the word "replacement" is what seems offensive to some. I do understand it in theory but in practice it's another matter.

[pomtzu]

In actuality, that is true. However, there are people who believe that you can. When I was first married, my husband and I went to our family dr. for complete physicals. When the dr. heard that I was on birth control and was considering having my tubes tied, he said "You should reconsider. If something should happen to your son, (this was my second marriage) God forbid, you'll want to have more children". I said "No, I wouldn't. I'd be too heartbroken. Besides, you can't replace children like cattle". He said "You would change your mind and then it would be too late". However we feel, there are still people who feel that if a child dies, you can possibly fill the void w/another one. I think the word "replacement" is what seems offensive to some. I do understand it in theory but in practice it's another matter.

That's the exact same situation I encountered years ago. I expressed the desire to my doctor to have my tubes tied after my 2nd child, and he asked the same question - what if something happened to one or both of my children - and I said the same thing - that they could never be "replaced"!

[Medusa]

they could never be "replaced"!

And, of course, they couldn't be replaced. My point is that the word "replacement", however offensive to some, stresses the point that there is a void in the family that, in their opinion, needs to be filled. Having a family is of the utmost importance to many and if, for instance, an only child was taken from them, I can understand their wanting to have more children. I wouldn't see it as trying to replace the lost child and it's doubtful that they would see it that way too. They would be, IMO, trying to have their normalcy, their family, again. They would always revere their child's memory but having more children doesn't detract from their child's legacy. If anything, it enhances it because it's a testament to the impact that the child made on their lives.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And, of course, they couldn't be replaced. My point is that the word "replacement", however offensive to some, stresses the point that there is a void in the family that, in their opinion, needs to be filled. Having a family is of the utmost importance to many and if, for instance, an only child was taken from them, I can understand their wanting to have more children. I wouldn't see it as trying to replace the lost child and it's doubtful that they would see it that way too. They would be, IMO, trying to have their normalcy, their family, again. They would always revere their child's memory but having more children doesn't detract from their child's legacy. If anything, it enhances it because it's a testament to the impact that the child made on their lives.

That is exactly the point some of us have been making. This couple, who chose to have more children after losing their three were called "sicko" (she was anyway) for wanting "replacement children." What Pomtzu and I at least have been saying is the are not "replacements" nor is the action "sicko."

It offends me to see this couple labeled in this way.
Thank you for understanding.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Pushing for more federal dollars, on top of the California state dollars, for contraceptives for US citizens as part of a stimulus package, thats saying lets spend money to save money.



No, that's saying "let's spend money for the good of the country, its people and it limited resources." Less unplanned/unwanted pregnancies means less abortions, less poverty, less child abuse, less water rationing, less overcrowding. Those are good things.

Btw...who is your ghostwriter?;)

[RICHARD]

I think the word "replacement" is what seems offensive to some. I do understand it in theory but in practice it's another matter.

How does "New Kids on the Block" sound?

That would be a great name for a band.

---------

I think I heard about the 49 year old woman who is having quads soon just reinforces my idea that all this baby farming should be looked at closely.


I heard a doc that specializes in OB that 20-80 percent of preemie MB kids suffer from life long physical/health problems.


Poor kids, They can't pick their parents, the parents pick them.:(:rolleyes:

[pomtzu]

Let me just throw one more comment in for the vultures:

Regarding the woman that had invitro after her 3 children died - some here feel she was a "sicko" and guilty of producing "replacements".........what if she had tried and happened to get pregnant "naturally"?? Then what? Does that somehow make it "acceptable"? IMO - there is absolutely no difference what-so-ever!

You "replace" a car - you "replace" a pair of shoes, since you can get another the same or very similar. You don't get a "replacement" child - you get a totally different and unique individual!

[RICHARD]

A VULTURE CIRCLING IN!

Now a woman who IVFs a litter of kids because she had money to get them is no worse that a woman who has money and NKOTBs a set of triplets to makeup for the three she lost in an accident is different?

I really don't see the diff. The crash mom- again I am probably wrong about this- probably make some ducats off of the trucker, the company he drove for and what ever insurance the family had.....So why not?.

Go toss a few K at a physician and farm out three kids at once to ease the pain.

Again, How can anyone look into the faces of those children and not think that? ANd what kind of freaky bedtime stories will the kids get....

"These are pics your dead siblings-they died in a car crash.....You never met them, but then god blessed us with you three and now we are happy!"


That puts an effing blanket of security onto the kids, eh?


"Mommy, if one of us dies will you have more kids?"

LOL,
Bad enough we all get the "was I adopted" ideas as we grow up.....now the kids have to worry about being replaced. I really want to see the CF that family grows into.

[pomtzu]

A VULTURE CIRCLING IN!

Now a woman who IVFs a litter of kids because she had money to get them is no worse that a woman who has money and NKOTBs a set of triplets to makeup for the three she lost in an accident is different?

I really don't see the diff. The crash mom- again I am probably wrong about this- probably make some ducats off of the trucker, the company he drove for and what ever insurance the family had.....So why not?.

Go toss a few K at a physician and farm out three kids at once to ease the pain.

Again, How can anyone look into the faces of those children and not think that? ANd what kind of freaky bedtime stories will the kids get....

"These are pics your dead siblings-they died in a car crash.....You never met them, but then god blessed us with you three and now we are happy!"


That puts an effing blanket of security onto the kids, eh?


"Mommy, if one of us dies will you have more kids?"

LOL,
Bad enough we all get the "was I adopted" ideas as we grow up.....now the kids have to worry about being replaced. I really want to see the CF that family grows into.

You are so far off base here that it's really pathetic. I can't believe that a grown, and supposedly intelligent man, can be so blind. Why is it so difficult for you to see that some people aren't complete without children in their lives, to love and to carry on a part of themselves for generations to come? To even think that this woman was taking advantage of the people responsible for the death of her children is absolutely ludicrous! She wanted another child, and the good Lord saw fit to bless her with three more. How terrible!! (in your opinion)! And what a childish statement to make in reference to "freaky bedtime stories". But there really isn't much point in dragging this out - because you will continue to spout off more nonsense. :mad:

[blue]

That's idiotic - blue. I know for sure that you don't have any kids, the same as Richard! You CAN'T EVER replace a child that has been lost.

No you cant replace the lost children outside of cloning.

The replacement is filling the void left from the loss of the children.

Thanks for the judgement and insult.

[blue]

No, that's saying "let's spend money for the good of the country, its people and it limited resources." Less unplanned/unwanted pregnancies means less abortions, less poverty, less child abuse, less water rationing, less overcrowding. Those are good things.

If spending money for the good of the country was the issue, they would let us keep more of it to spend to build the economy.

We already have millions if not billions spent on preventing births, do they really need millions more to stimulate the economy?

An area dosent have to be overpopulated to have poverty, child abuse, or water rationing.


Btw...who is your ghostwriter?;)

Are you insulting me again? Or are you saying I should author Obama's next "self written" book?

[blue]

FWIW, I can see how a parent who lost a child would push to have another to fill the void left by the death of one child or all of their children.

I can understand that, I would not consider it sick but only natural.

[RICHARD]

She wanted another child, and the good Lord saw fit to bless her with three more. How terrible!! (in your opinion)! And what a childish statement to make in reference to "freaky bedtime stories". But there really isn't much point in dragging this out - because you will continue to spout off more nonsense. :mad:

Thank you for discounting my opinion- it's now 75 percent off!:cool:

The lord also put the good invitro doc on the planet, please credit him for that?

------------

Blue,

Your observation is correct!

I have to add that some areas with the most 'upper crust' habitants are also morally bankrupt.:rolleyes:

[pomtzu]

FWIW, I can see how a parent who lost a child would push to have another to fill the void left by the death of one child or all of their children.

I can understand that, I would not consider it sick but only natural.

And I do believe that's what I've been saying all along!!! :rolleyes: My issue has been with the reference to "replacement" children - in particular the mother who had invitro after she lost her 3 children. Perhaps you haven't read all the posts??????????

[Medusa]

Ok, I don't feel like going back and reading 17 pages of this thread but I'd like to know who referred to the children as replacements anyhow? :)

[pomtzu]

Ok, I don't feel like going back and reading 17 pages of this thread but I'd like to know who referred to the children as replacements anyhow? :)

See post #183

[Medusa]

See post #183

Got it. Thanx.

[sasvermont]

I saw a quick clip on her last evening, I believe. It was an interview with her PR agent - former PR agent. She (the agent) mentioned death threats and crude comments being passed through the agent to the Mom. I think I saw a comment from the Mom that she never expected such horrible reactions.

Well, it is too late to get a re-do on this. Isn't it!

I hope some rich soul steps in and gives this lady help with her children. I don't think too many "ordinary folks" will be doing so, from the looks of it. It won't be me, that's for sure.

I did see a clip of her first six children and boy are they good looking children. They looked loved and happy. I suspect the G-parents get lots of the credit for that. Then you add the next eight to the mix and it equals disaster as far as I am concerned.

Maybe she should move to a farm and start putting all those kids to work on the land! Isn't that how it was in the early pioneer years? Even the toddlers worked, feeding the chickens.

California is not the place for this woman and her crew.

I do believe the limelight has come to bite her in the butt.

Maybe she can move in with Richard and his cat.:p

[Edwina's Secretary]

FWIW, I can see how a parent who lost a child would push to have another to fill the void left by the death of one child or all of their children.

I can understand that, I would not consider it sick but only natural.

I am glad we agree Blue. This is what I have been saying as well.

[blue]

I guess the problem has been, some of us have no problem using the term replacement when it comes to a child and others find it highly offensive.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I guess the problem has been, some of us have no problem using the term replacement when it comes to a child and others find it highly offensive.

Not exactly......that is a part of the discussion...but the contention is because one poster has said there is something ...I am not sure of the exact words...but sick or perverted about having more children when you have lost yours. The poster suggested they should just go on an lead a "normal" life.

Yes, the word "replacement" strikes some as offensive but far more offensive is to suggest, as this poster did, that there is something selfish and wrong about having more children.

Here's ONE quote made about this couple who lost their children and were able to have more children through in-vitro...


The three kids born to the crash mom ARE REPLACEMENTS. That woman was just as effing goofy as the OCTOMOM