Calloway's glucose STILL high at 469 on Feb 13th :(

[jennielynn1970]

This cat is driving me nuts! I've been treating him for diabetes now for 3 months, and we're still not regulated. I took him back to the vet today for a blood glucose check, and he was 412!! He's on Purina D/M food dry and canned. The only thing he gets that isn't diabetic in nature is treats, and he gets those twice a day for when he gets his insulin. He's such a good boy when he gets his insulin too, and the vet said treats were allowed, so I don't want to stop giving him those. He did say I could use the canned food as a treat, but they're expensive and I'll never get 2 cans of wet food eaten in a day. Even with the others, they won't finish that much canned food.

We're now up to 5 units of insulin twice a day. The vet also commented that Calloway has put weight back on, and that's not good. :o SIGH. Before it was "don't let him lose too much weight", then he gained some back, lost a little more, now gained some more back. He's still a little over 17lbs, and a chubber. So, what is it? Lose weight? Don't lose weight? I'm getting frustrated and confused by the different comments (2 different vets, same practice).

Anyone else deal with a cat with diabetes and having issues controlling the glucose levels? Anyone not having issues and have suggestions??

[Freedom]

How frustrating! I mean, it's not like my Dad, who keeps "cheating" and eating stuff he shouldn't, lol.

You may get more help from a pet diabetes forum? I know this one gets a lot of good reviews:
http://www.petdiabetes.net/

You can google and find cat specific ones as well.
cat diabetes forum
brings up plenty of options.

[Moesha]

It took me about 8 months to get Morgan's insulin regulated. But it was every time we went to have his sugar checked, we had to keep dropping the levels, well except for the first time. I went from 8 units once a day to 5 twice a day. From there it came down one unit at a time (like 4 twice a day, to 3 twice a day). He isn't on any insulin anymore and hasn't been for a year and a half. He eats a rationed amount of the DM dry. It is usually 3/4 to 1 cup of food a day. He would get a small spoon of wet food in the mornings before we found out about the diabetes. Then when he had to have the shots and the vet said that he needed to eat when we gave him the insulin, we started giving him another spoon of wet food in the evenings also. He is still on that schedule. He eats mostly dry and the wet food is his treat. Like I said though it is only a small spoonful, so what is left goes in the fridge. It takes him several days to go through a whole can. I don't use the DM canned food. I use mostly Nine Lives Tuna Select. It is very high in protein and low in carbs, even more so than the DM actually. That is his treat, although occasionally I will give him one or two tempations. There is a website that I can't find at the moment that lists the protein vs carb amounts in commercial cat foods.

I'm also housesitting a cat that showed up at my house 8 years ago and I found him a home. His mom is on vacation, so he is at my house. He is also diabetic. She didn't change his food. He eats Nine Lives dry. She doesn't regulate how much he eats either. He is regulated with 4 units twice a day. I guess a lot of it depends on the cat.

I also have other friends that had a very hard time regulating their diabetic cat. They used a different kind of insulin though.

My vet uses Vetsulin. My friends live in Knoxville and I forget which insulin they used, but I know it was much more expensive. What kind or brand of insulin does Calloway use? I hope you can get everything regulated for him. It is frustrating I know!

ETA: I found the website. There are links here to both wet and dry food charts. Here's the link. (http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm)

[jenluckenbach]

I am so sorry for Calloway. I only had 1 diabetic cat, and it was over 6 years ago, so my memory fails me. But getting him regulated was completely impossible. :( I wish Calloway a better outcome.

[jennielynn1970]

I gotta say, I don't only give him 1 or 2 Temptations, lol. Ooops. I guess I should start the canned food as his treat and do the fridge thing. I'll check out the Nine Lives canned food too.

I'll have to see what insulin he gets. I know it's $80 for the small bottle of it. I almost fell over when I saw the bill. Granted, the last bottle lasted for almost 3 months, but that was also with lesser amounts being used in the beginning.

The vet said to give him 1/2 c. of food a day. That's not much, and I know he'll lose weight on that, which will probably have the other vet telling me he lost too much too quickly, lol.

[Grace]

Never had a cat with diabetes, but I know it is difficult for a human to lose weight while on insulin, so maybe it's the same for a cat.

3 months is not a long time, though. It can take time to get regulated on any medication - to get the correct blood levels.

[Catlady711]

I know how frustrated you and Calloway are over the insulin. Sorry that things haven't straightened out sooner.

Some animals are fairly easy to get under control others are more difficult. It's probably not helping that you have two vets with dissagreeing opinons either.

From what I see at work the ones that seem to have steadier insulin levels were caught early and have a very strict routine for feeding times, amounts and excercise. Not sure if it's as applicable to cats, since we see way more dogs with diabetes than cats, but I'd imagine the principle would be the same.

Is there just one vet of the two that you trust more? Maybe just request to only see that one, that way you don't get conflicting information?

I hope things straighten out soon for both you guys.

[smokey the elder]

I have a diabetic, who was diagnosed 3 years ago. Moby is on what's called "PZI" (protamine zinc) insulin. I seem to remember it took about 6 months to get her regulated. She never went above 3 units twice a day (bid); now at 2 bid. There are different insulins that work better for some cats than for others. www.felinediabetes.com has a wealth of information; they are very big on blood testing. I'm not sure if you want to go there. I don't blood test Moby, but want to learn how to do it.

It's best to stick with one vet's protocol; vets have different strategies for managing diabetes.

Glucose levels (single-point) are not very accurate. Stress can spike glucose. Ask about "fructosamine" test. This measures longer-term regulation. Moby's fructosamine topped out at 565 (poor) and is now at 365 (very well regulated.)This test is typically done every 6 months. I get her kidney values tested at the same time.

[GILL]

Our Patch’s was over 17 when she passed and for 16 years she was diabetic.
It took 8-10 months too get close to regulating it. Then we would test every 6 months. We did have some close calls. It is extremely hard when you walk in and you r baby is comatose with her tongue hang out, so we did have a few runs to emergency.
But I would not have traded it.
So hang in there.

[krazyaboutkatz]

I'm sorry to hear this.:( Hopefully you'll be able to get him regulated soon. I'll keep him in my thoughts and prayers.

[bowlkat]

We have two (currently)-- one is now past the insulin phase, after about 3 years on it, and stable; the other is stable now, after about 7 months, BUT: The first insulin we tried, he had a massive reaction to it, and WENT MOSTLY BLIND.... it affected his optic nerves, some sort of inflammatory process, and he still has good and bad days, vision-wise, and 'good' isn't really good.... most of the time his eyes are just dilated way out and not seeing much at all. Also, it wasn't regulating his sugar or fructosamine levels worth a damn either. We switched him immediately to another type of feline insulin, the one the other cat had been using, and we got him stable, so he's very happy and healthy and weight-stable and all-- just, mostly blind. So we have two diabetic cats, one of whom is an official FDA Adverse Drug Reaction Report.

It simply takes time- as others have said, every cat is different and their metabolisms take time to adjust and readjust-- keep trying, watch the diet, monitor his sugar and fructosamine, and LOVE HIM-- it's no more fun for him than it is for you...... and I know varying recommendations from different vets can make you nuts, too, but everyone's just guessing, hoping to find the right levels and frequencies and then hoping the cat's metabolism doesn't change again......

[jennielynn1970]

Found this on his insulin bottle, not sure what "kind" it is.

Insulin PZI BCP

I haven't noticed any eye issues, thank god.

[Moesha]

That's the insulin my friends in Knoxville used. It was WAY more expensive than what my vet prescribed. They had trouble getting their kitty regulated with it, but I know many vets prefer it. How often does Calloway go in to be tested? Morgan went every 2 weeks.

[Emeraldgreen]

I'm sorry to hear that Calloway's insulin levels aren't regulated yet. That insulin is expensive! Barney was on Canninsulin and it was pretty cheap. The vet sent us home with half a vial and I think it was less than 15.00. Maybe you could see if another brand could be used that might be more effective for Calloway and cheaper for you. :)
I have been trying to keep Paddy on a stricter diet and now he is off the Temptation treats altogether and finaly lost a few pounds. I think they are pretty fattening but boy do they love 'em! He loves food so much though that I can give him dry food as a treat because he doesn't free feed so any crunchies are welcomed by him. He gets about a cup in total per day spread out.
Please give Calloway a BIG hug for me. :love:

[weluvcats]

Poor thing...I have never had a cat with diabetes, but I can imagine how difficult and frustrating it must be to get them regulated on their insulin.

I know how frustrating it is to get dueling opinions from different vets about the same thing. Do you have a favorite or regular vet that you prefer? If you can, try to stick with them, although I know it's not always possible to see them if they're in surgery, off for the day, or just booked. In the meantime, ask lots of questions, and trust your gut instincts.

Good luck, and hugs and prayers to you and Calloway!:love:

Judy:)

[jennielynn1970]

That's the insulin my friends in Knoxville used. It was WAY more expensive than what my vet prescribed. They had trouble getting their kitty regulated with it, but I know many vets prefer it. How often does Calloway go in to be tested? Morgan went every 2 weeks.

He goes in every two to three weeks. Every time he's been over 400!

I got home yesterday after work, and boy did he yell at me!!! I had only left out what was left of his morning serving to last through the rest of the day, which really wasn't more than 2 Tbsp. full. I left at 5:45am, got home at 4:45pm, and had one HUNGRY and unhappy camper, lol! He gave me the most annoyed sounding meow I've ever heard, and he looked totally ticked off. Ears to the side, little eye brows furrowed. He was really too cute, lol.

I'm hoping that maybe since I'm back to work, and he'll not be getting crunchies from me during the day (I thought he could have extra) maybe he'll be able to be regulated better??

I'll cut back on the Tempations, but I won't take them out all together. He's such a troooper with getting the shots and all, he really deserves SOME treats. Maybe that's just me projecting onto the cat how I'd feel, I dunno. I said Calloway and I are just meant to be, because we are both just very food oriented, lol. :o:p

[smokey the elder]

Every cat is different. PZI works for Moby; maybe it doesn't work for Calloway, or maybe not enough time has passed.

[funny felines]

ask the vet which is it? maybe tell them they keep telling you different things. probably they want the kitty to stay at a certain weight, not too thin but not overweight either, and I know that isn't easy. good luck . sending prayers for you kitty!!

[bowlkat]

FYI, the insulin our #1 diabetic cat used, and the one we SWITCHED our #2 diabetic cat TO, AFTER the inflammatory response that blinded him, is PZI. THAT is the GOOD one.......And YES, it is frightfully expensive, roughly 3-1/2 times the price of the bilge that blinded our guy...... and YES, the PZI, good as it is and expensive as it is, has also been DISCONTINUED-- we are working on existing stocks of manufactured PZI which expire in 2010, and praying that the company succeeds in getting FDA approval of their 'replacement' feline insulin BEFORE all existing PZI insulin expires. They've filed the NDA, now it's in FDA's hands. Meantime, we have a stable, happy, active, BLIND cat, whose diabetes is well-regulated and who's making the best of things.... it just took time.
So you all know: NO ONE we've dealt with in his situation has EVER seen this blindness reaction before--and we've dealt with a LOT of vets, generalist and specialist, in this guy's case-- so, it's NOT something anyone else should have to worry about or live in fear of. But getting your guy's diabetes regulated and stable is enough of a headache by itself.
Keep up the good work-- if he's bellowing for food and eating well, you're probably not TOO far from where you need to be-- next visit, double-check with the vet's and make sure your injection technique is OK, and injection-site0 location selection, and all that-- just keep taking any variables you can think of OUT of the picture, keep narrowing it down until his metabolism decides to be happy and regulated.....once it all falls into place, it's a wonderful thing. Even mostly to entirely blind, our guy is a VERY happy, healthy, good-living fellow now-- affectionate, playful, everything like it should be-- and since no one bothered to inform HIM that he's 'handicapped', the blindness doesn't seem to phase him much, he's adjusted, we just don't rearrange furniture much, is all (I'm not sorry for that excuse!). He's a happy guy and living a VERY good life, and telling us about it all the time-- which is the whole idea, right? HAPPY CAT, that's what we were after and that's what we've got!

Stay patient, stay informed, keep watching him, keep loving him-- and GOOD LUCK-- you'll get there- and both of you will love it when you arrive-

[Moesha]

How is Calloway doing?

[jennielynn1970]

He's being a grump and s*it about getting his injections now. He squirms, he cries, he basically makes me feel like crap about having to give him the injection. I switch shoulders so that it's not always the same one, and he gets treats while getting his meds, but it's not working like it was before. :(

I'm not sure where to go with it from here. I can't handle struggling with him every day. Mentally.. it's just draining on me. I know he needs it, but geez... I wish he'd make it easier.

We have a vet visit on Friday afternoon, so we'll have to see how bad his levels are again.


I'm wondering if there is a pill that I can give him (Jen L. mentioned one), but I don't know how well it regulates diabetes. I want him to be well. Not sickly and on death's door. He worries me all the time. He still drinks a ton of water. He still peees lakes in the litter box. His food is SOOOO controlled now... it shouldn't be like this.

UGH.:(:(


eta: my depression just makes this all the harder for me to do and so deal with, so if I seem to sound really down, that is one of the reasons.

[Medusa]

Oh Jenn, I'm sorry. Hopefully the vet will be able to ease your mind a bit. In the meantime, we'll send up some prayers that Calloway will be more cooperative. Keep the faythe. :love:

[jennielynn1970]

Was back to the vet today to do a glucose check. Ugh. STILL high. 469. This is with strict food consumption and only minimal treats. We're going from 5 to 6 units of insulin twice a day. His weight stayed about the same (16lbs 15oz), so that is a good thing. Don't want him to be losing or gaining anything major.

Now just to get this glucose dealt with. The vet wants to see him more frequently and try to be a little more aggressive (once a week).

She did say I can give him baby food as a treat as well, so I can always try that the next time I go shopping this weekend.


I talked to a colleague at school who is diabetic, and he wears an insulin pump (I'm guessing his is pretty serious for him to have that at such a young age.. maybe 30). He said his glucose, at the worst, hit 1000 and he lost his vision for 2 weeks because of the drastic measures they took. They got his glucose down within one hour, but the dosage was so high it put his body into shock and his vision went. How scary is that?!! He said his glucose was up and down a lot. One day a piece of pizza was fine for him to eat, the next day it made his glucose go through the roof. It was like no rhyme or reason. He was surprised that a cat could be diabetic, but he was very sympathetic about it.


Send up some prayers please that we can get his glucose down.

[nepeta]

Has your vet run a glucose curve on him? It might help


See for example
http://www.caninsulin.com/monitoring-blood-glucose-curves.asp

or


http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2130&aid=256

[Moesha]

I'm sorry to hear this about Calloway. Is it coming down? What was it the last time it had been checked? I can't remember if we checked Morgan's every week or every two weeks. Getting the right dosage is the hard part. I'm glad that they are going to check it more frequently.

[jennielynn1970]

It has been between 400 and 470 almost every time we go! It's never below 400. It's just really frustrating when you're doing all they tell you to do, and it still doesn't get any better.

He's sleeping now, like a sweetheart, and got a little bit of treats when we got home (had to wait almost 45 for the vet to get back from lunch to get the insulin and syringes and tell us what to increase the dosage to). I figured he earned them, lol, and she said some treats were ok.

[jennielynn1970]

Has your vet run a glucose curve on him? It might help


See for example
http://www.caninsulin.com/monitoring-blood-glucose-curves.asp

or


http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2130&aid=256

They haven't suggested any kind of study on him since the first time we discovered he was diabetic, back in October.

[Medusa]

Add my name to the list of those who are praying for dear Calloway. :love:

[jenluckenbach]

I am surprized they have not run an all day glucose curve (testing every couple of hours). That is what they did for my Y.Lee (the only experience I've had with diabetes).

[Moesha]

It has been between 400 and 470 almost every time we go! It's never below 400. It's just really frustrating when you're doing all they tell you to do, and it still doesn't get any better.


I know. The important thing is to keep doing exactly what you are doing. Keep that diet consistent then the only thing that will change it the amount of insulin. Hopefully eventually you'll see it coming down and hit the magic number that works for Calloway. Please remember we want to hear about how you and you sweet boy are doing. Keep us posted!

ETA: They did not do a curve on Morgan. I didn't even know anything about it until seeing it posted here.

[jennielynn1970]

I am surprized they have not run an all day glucose curve (testing every couple of hours). That is what they did for my Y.Lee (the only experience I've had with diabetes).

They only did that once, and that was the first time in October when he tested as diabetic, and we started at 1 unit in the AM and 2 units in the PM. Nothing since then. I was wondering if they'd want to do that again as well. I can ask Dr. Hess/Dr. Fanelli the next time I go in I guess.:confused:

We're up to 6 units, twice a day.

[Moesha]

I am actually surprised if his levels were always that high that they started with 1 unit. Morgan's initial reading was around 370, I think. He started at 8 units once a day. Then when that wasn't working, we went to 5 units twice a day and then worked our way down from there.

[jennielynn1970]

We've just been going up and up. :(

[krazyaboutkatz]

Jenn, I'm sorry to hear this.:( I'll keep him in my thoughts and prayers.

[Moesha]

How is Calloway?