Aggressive Behavior in my female animal

[Pekemom]

My female dog is overly aggressive with my male dog. Many times, she will mount him and proceed to make mating motions that are typically seen in males. Given the chance, she will always make him wait to eat, take his play things, and make him move from the spot where he sleeps. It has become such a problem that he will not even eat unless she has been kenneled out of his sight.

We have worked hard to train her, but to no avail. We have also tried to encourage him to be less submissive. We've read books and received training tips, but she refuses to become less aggressive. I've had other dogs before who have been difficult, but I've always been able to overcome their behavioral problems by doing my best to reinforce good behavior and become responsive to their needs. What can I do?

[Karen]

A few questions - are both dogs neutered? How old are they, and who came first? Have you done any obedience training with either? She sounds like she needs to learn that YOU - not she - is the BIg dog in the pack, and you are in charge.

Have you looked at NILIF - the "Nothing In Life is FREE" training method? There are several threads abut it here.

[Pekemom]

Neither of the dogs are neutered specifically because when they are older my fiance and I would like to breed them. The female is actually about 2 months younger than the male who is about 1 year and 2 months old.

We got the male first. Before we got the female, we had a Weim (female) who he was fairly dominant with (although it seemed to be more of a passive dominance). When we had to move to a very tiny apartment last Spring (for his job), my parents took the Weim in to live on their farm because we felt it unfair to keep her inside so much (she's extremely happy their).

We then got the female Peke to keep the male Peke company, and she decided she would dominate the household. We tried our hardest to instill the training methods we had learned from training our Weim, but she refuses...even to the point that she still is not 100% potty trained. We crate her, but she doesn't seem to mind peeing where she sleeps-even when we take her out as often as possible (including weekdays when we stop in at lunch to let her out). The vet says it isn't a physical problem, just behavioral. I love her to death, but I'm so tired of being her doormat.

[Giselle]

Hi Pekemom, as you can see, I'm also a Peke owner and I'm a HUGE Peke aficionado. I used to mentor with several renowned Peke handlers and breeders, and I'm still madly in love with the breed. First, I noticed that you mentioned breeding. Because I love this breed so much, I have to ask: Are your pups being shown or do you plan to show them? Or are they being worked in the obedience or agility or similar ring? In other words, are they being proven? The reason I ask is because there are a LOT of homeless Pekes out there, almost all due to unnecessary breeding. If you are showing the dogs and everything, kudos to you! And if you are showing, who'd you get them from? :) I may know the breeder! But if your pups are solely pets, I highly encourage you consider neutering and spaying them. At this point in time, there are just too many homeless Pekes out there to encourage breeding JUST for producing pets.

Re: Potty training. Take it two steps back and use the tether method (keep a leash on her and tie it to your waist). Since your female has gotten used to peeing where she sleeps, you can't use that natural deterrent anymore. So, rather, you'll have to keep her by your side and take her out everytime you see her sniffing. This tether method makes sure that you won't miss a signal.

Re: Female's dominance over the male. It's actually very common for the female to dominate the male, especially in unaltered dogs. I try not to mess with the dog's pecking order too much because too much human intervention can do more harm than good. However, to reassert yourself as THE one and only leader, I also recommend NILIF: http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm
Especially in regards to feeding, I would try "cooperative feeding". In other words, have both female and male sitting in front of you. Give the female a treat while simultaneously giving the male a treat. Then give the male a treat. IMMEDIATELY treat the female thereafter. A clicker works wonderfully for this. Repeat this enough so that the female regards you giving resources to the male as a good thing. And if she ever gets too rough with him or if she starts to border on bullying, take a can of pennies or use a very low, loud "NO!". And then redirect her to her toy or her bed or her area, whatever. Just remember: whenever you punish, you have to immediately follow up with a redirection. Good luck!

[Pekemom]

The only probably with the stern/load "NO" is that it doesn't tend to phase her. Because the male is so passive, he tends to take every "NO" as if he is the one being punished. So, telling her no only scares him and he goes and hides behind the recliner while she seems not to even care. I think that his sensitivity is why I have not used these techniques with her more (I used them with our Weim and they worked well-but that was when he was a pup). The clicker seems to have helped somewhat, so I'm trying to continue using it to help her. I've been taking extra time each day to work with her and have been trying to teach her a few simple commands because I feel that will help instate my (and my fiance's) position in the household better.

I believe I will try the tether method with her and see how it works though. We try to keep her crated while we are gone and at night, but I hate to keep her crated while we are home.

We won't be breeding them any time soon, but I doubt we'll show them. I know in a lot of areas Pekes are overbred, but I honestly have not seen it as an issue around here. Before we bought each of ours, we searched the local shelters and such for a few weeks hoping to find one (or a Peke mix). When we could not find one each time, we bought our Pekes from a couple who bred them about an hour from here because we could not find anywhere else around here to acquire this specific breed. I will look into it more, however, and see if overbreeding has become a problem here and then base my decision off of that. I wouldn't want to exacerbate the problem.


Edit: My fiance made a funny comment after reading what I wrote. He said Pekes probably aren't over bred here in Coon-hound country so I needn't worry. :P Of course, he thinks we should look into it as well.

[carrie]

I would agree STRONGLY with what has been said already about Peke overbreeding. Yes there are too many Pekes around but the real point about the overbreeding is that they have been, as a breed, bred too genetically similar to each other. Responsible breeding is the only way out for so many popular breeds. Kennel Club standards (worldwide) have encouraged breeding practices that shrink the genetic diversity in so many breeds ( a bit like cousins and siblings breeding in humans!). This leads to a less healthy gene pool and common defects that are usually killed off in a more natural setting become the normal, or at least greatly increased, in the decreased genetic material available.

Straight away, I urge you to get both dogs neutered. Do not breed from these dogs. Please.

I am not saying that you should never breed. Please, learn about the gentics, the pedigrees, the particular problems associated with Pekes - and there are many (would you really want to put your bitch through this process without knowing all you can know?) - and what you will do if your pups or bitch are at risk during whelping, what you will do if a pup is badly deformed at birth etc.

Before you even think of breeding, please, seperate these dogs until they are neutered.

The training/behavior problems are really secondary to the intention to breed these animals.

[Pekemom]

It seems like you posted your opinion assuming several things about me.

One is that overbreeding is a problem in MY area. Overbreeding of animals in general is a problem, yes, but I've only ever seen one Peke around my area or the area I grew up just 5 hrs away from here. This area is more known for retrievers and hunting animals or Shih Tzus.

Another is that I know little about breeding when, in fact, I grew up on farm where we bred horses and dogs (Weims, Retrievers, Beagles, and Mini Collies). I know the risks and demands of breeding animals and I also do not believe animals should only be bred for show. The majority of people who wish to own pets cannot afford to show their animals, nor do they want to. I do not think companionship is a second rate reason to breed or own animals. I also do not think the lack of desire or money to show animals reflects that someone will not take care of their pets. I feel that I invest more time, money, and energy into caring for my animals than most who own for companionship. I also do my research into my breed's special needs and try to prevent in any way possible health problems that I can help them to avoid.

And no...the training/behavior problems are not secondary. They may be to you, but I live with these two particular animals and I love them very much. I would like to help them be as happy as possible, and if they are misbehaving that means they want something from me. Thus, their behavior problems are very important to the entire household's happiness.

[Pekemom]

Re: Female's dominance over the male. It's actually very common for the female to dominate the male, especially in unaltered dogs. I try not to mess with the dog's pecking order too much because too much human intervention can do more harm than good. However, to reassert yourself as THE one and only leader, I also recommend NILIF: http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm
Especially in regards to feeding, I would try "cooperative feeding". In other words, have both female and male sitting in front of you. Give the female a treat while simultaneously giving the male a treat. Then give the male a treat. IMMEDIATELY treat the female thereafter. A clicker works wonderfully for this. Repeat this enough so that the female regards you giving resources to the male as a good thing. And if she ever gets too rough with him or if she starts to border on bullying, take a can of pennies or use a very low, loud "NO!". And then redirect her to her toy or her bed or her area, whatever. Just remember: whenever you punish, you have to immediately follow up with a redirection. Good luck!

NILIF sounds like one program that institutes several things that I've done with my dogs-especially the Weim. I always require the dogs "earn" their privileges. Even when letting them outside, they must sit until I say "ok". There are a couple of small things I haven't thought of doing, but I think we'll be implementing those things this week :D

[carrie]

Yes, behaviour and training issues are secondary when more litters of mutated domestic animals of any species or breed are conceived to suffer the same as their forefathers that were trained and kept properly. This is not an attack on you, honestly, and it is, obviously, my own opinion. But if a breed of cow was known to give great milk yields, put on fantastic muscle for the meat market and yet every third animal had a recognised genetic problem that meant you couldn't breed from it, it lost 50% of it's calves because of inbreeding would farmers breed from them? No! Unless cows suddenly became a fashionable pet and humans started to decide what made a cow "pretty".

It does matter how we train and treat the animals we have in our care right now, of course it does. My point was not against you in any way but if we do the right thing by the animals we have now, artificial creatures that suffer in great numbers to satisfy our (human) notions of perfection what makes us think that the next set of humans will behave any better than we have with the creatures we provide for them?

Scandal! Am I saying that it is alright for some breeds to go? Yes, I am.....and yet, no I'm not. It would be so sad to let some of these breeds go without at least trying to breed back to original use of the dog. Labs, dalmations, Pekes, bloodhounds, dachsunds etc.

[Pekemom]

Despite all of your intense opinion-pushing, I still retain my stance that the most important point on this post is helping to rectify my dog's (or my) behavior problems.

There are millions of causes out there that I could push, but I'm letting these forums be just what they are...forums for those seeking advise on their animals' behavior and not forums discussing philosophy or ideologies etc...

If your so stuck on this issue, create another topic for it or join a lobbying group somewhere. If I were breeding the animals for show, no one would care. Why is it ok to breed for show and not companionship? Double standard...it's ok to breed animals to prance them around and show the pretty tricks they can do, but not ok to breed them for people seeking a companion who brightens the mood of a home, helps the owner deal with stress, and offers more loyalty than almost anything one can experience. There are many ways the mutation rate can be decreased in animals and much research has been done looking at methods of creating more genetic variation (i.e. genetic selection) within breeds.

I'm done with your topic and am still concerned with mine. It is somewhat rude to dismiss someone's question in such a manner, but I'm not going to bother with being offended.

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Another is that I know little about breeding when, in fact, I grew up on farm where we bred horses and dogs (Weims, Retrievers, Beagles, and Mini Collies). I know the risks and demands of breeding animals and I also do not believe animals should only be bred for show. The majority of people who wish to own pets cannot afford to show their animals, nor do they want to. I do not think companionship is a second rate reason to breed or own animals. I also do not think the lack of desire or money to show animals reflects that someone will not take care of their pets. I feel that I invest more time, money, and energy into caring for my animals than most who own for companionship. I also do my research into my breed's special needs and try to prevent in any way possible health problems that I can help them to avoid.


I will be another one to say please do not breed your dogs! There are waaaay too many animals in the shelters.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::(

[Giselle]

Guys, let's just remember that the more you rely on argumentative/confrontational/offensive wording, the less you will be listened to. ;) Talk about shooting one's self in the foot!

Pekemom, the difference between breeding for showing and breeding for companionship is that there are, essentially, millions of companion-quality dogs being euthanized yearly in our country alone. Even though the problem may be nearly non-existent in your area, every drop affects the entire bucket. The reason some of us (I say SOME because many people on here are pro-working dogs and not necessarily pro-conformation) can agree with breeding for conformation/show ring is because breeding to a standard attempts to preserve the breed. By keeping a uniform type and temperament via the show ring, breeders can help preserve the breed as it was originally intentioned. However, when one breeds for companionship, one can totally disregard the breed type and the breed morphs. That's why we have Pekes like this:
http://asapblogs.typepad.com/news/images/2007/07/10/pekingese_dog.jpg
When the original Peke should really resemble a heavier coated version of Chik T'sun of Caversham:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/LSophie/IMG_2291.jpg
Comparing these two images, you can see how quickly breed type is lost and how quickly that "Pekingese" no longer resembles a "Pekingese". So, that's my little spiel on it. You sound like a very knowledgeable, responsible, and openminded person, so I trust you will make a good decision :)

Back to the BEHAVIORAL issues...
If a verbal "NO" is too much for your male, simply use your female's name. The dogs can tell the difference. You can try, "AY *female's name*!!" That way, the verbal reprimand is clearly directed towards the female.

I HIGHLY recommend NILIF in the meantime. Really do implement it and be strict for now. NILIF is not just about earning privileges. It is also learning self-control. Dog has to "Wait" before coming in from the yard. Dog has to "Wait" before it can exit the front door. Dog has to give you eye contact before it can eat dinner. etc. etc. It's a comprehensive method. Use NILIF with everything all the time! :)

[Pekemom]

My issue is that breeding for show creates exactly the problem that Carrie was speaking of...low levels of genetic variation that cause animals within a breed to become more genetically similar thus creating more probability for mutation. Breeding for companionship is not as strict as breeding for show, so it seems to encourage more variation.

I do see how different the two pictures. I've actually noted myself that my two pekes, although thoroughly purebred, do not have the same length of hair as a traditional Peke. My younger one's hair has not grown out fully yet, though, but I'm fairly certain it will not have the volume of the traditional style. Like I said though, I searched the kennels for weeks looking for Pekes or Peke mixes around here to no avail. Hunting/working animals are much more prominent in the South. Here in the eastern part of my state, you don't find many small breeds other than Yorkies or Shih Tzus because most people want hunting companions or retrievers. In the west side where I grew up, there aren't even that many shelters for animals. Inevitably, breeds that are over 2,000 years old will develop some genetic problems (like the Shar Pei) over the course of years, so I understand the points made fully...I just wasn't a fan of the person before you seeming to assume I was ignorant to all of these issues.

My problem with calling Bianca's name is that I worry about associating her name in a negative manner may cause some problems...i.e. calling her name so she will come to me when she's outside playing may scare her instead of cause her to come to me. I've begun already reinstating the techniques in NILIF for my two. I'd used some of the ideas separately before when I read about some of them in training books. I like that NILIF incorporates all of the methods into one program to make it easier. She's in the rebelling stage right now, but she seems to be happy to learn the new commands we're trying to teach her. I hope that learning those commands will help her to respect her position in the household (not Alpha! :D) She seems to have mixed feelings right now...doesn't know if she likes it yet or not.

[Pekemom]

I really only signed up for these forums to find ways to better care for my animals and not to debate ideologies. All I'm doing is saying that breeding is not my concern at the moment. IF I were to breed my animals it wouldn't be for another year or more anyways....One person can only do so much and I already have several causes in my life outside of making people knowledgeable about breeding animals. When 20% of our nation's poorest people are children (we currently have a 12.6% poverty rate...higher than most countries), I find I take a stronger stance of the needs of them over any stance on animal breeding. If animal rights (or whatever it falls into) is your stance, that is great (I'm serious...it really is great). I don't see myself as a bad pet owner for simply not making such things my priority in life.

[carrie]

Whatever the intended use of an animal, I make no distinction in my opinion.

The point I was making was that it is only when the show ring is the destination for any animal that breeding for proper function and health suffers. It is then up to the people in charge of that ring that make the decisions about what makes a good breed type. Function and temperament are often stated in breed standards without proper testing of either. The animal in the show ring often has only to show the correct expression, gait and not growl at the judge for these to be "proved". I'm sorry I was not clearer in my original post, I am agreeing with you on the point that eventual use of the dog should not compromise the care taken in breeding it. I was wondering about the wisdom of breeding these animals at all and with what goal for increasing the health of the Peke population in general without solid bloodlines. You are starting with a pretty messed up breed, gentically, to start with. That was part of your post, this is a forum, it interested me, so I put my opinion in the open.

You suggested that I join a "group" or become an activist....?

We have never met, this is our first interaction. Maybe we could just talk for a bit before we direct each other away from a brilliant source of information, opinion and diversity? I have obviously offended you and I am sorry for that. It was not my intention at all. I tend to say what I think and I expect the same from others...I do not expect to upset or offend.

[Giselle]

No, her name is her name. She knows that. The name is simply used to get their attention. It's not a command that can be conditioned to contain a negative or positive connotation. It's not like how you can deteriorate a "Come" command if you always call the dog back to you for punishment. I think the reason for this is due to the sheer number of times you probably say your dog's name in a day. The proportion of how often you say your dog's name when you're in a positive mood is probably very high versus how often you say her name when you're disciplining (which, in turn, is probably very low). Thus, the positive really outweighs the negative.

Many "rebellious"/teenage dogs don't take to NILIF at first, but you'll all appreciate it in the long run. It's akin to raising teenage children ;)

[bckrazy]

Hi Pekemom. :)

I am glad you joined PT for advice... Giselle, especially, is a freakin' dog training genius. I honestly feel that YOU need to step in more regarding the relationship between your dogs - YOU need to let Bianca know when it's time to back off, not wait around for your male dog to do it. He is obviously a more submissive dog, and not only does the bullying make him fearful of Bianca, he will also lose his trust in you as the benevolent leader and protector.

I would feed them in crates, seperated, at every meal if you cannot be right there supervising. DEFINITELY cut off free-feeding if that's what you do currently, because Bianca will end up pudgy and your boy will end up under-fed. For supervised meals, I would feed each from a bowl several feet from the other, and stand in between them. If Bianca goes for his food, quickly correct her with a "NO", block her from getting there, and direct her to her own bowl.

As far as the humping, my dogs hump, too. They hump when they're playing. It's just a dog behavior... it is for play, demonstrations of dominance, excitement, and even just as a way to expend energy. Let them do their thing, unless your male seems scared or agitated. Has your female ever hurt him? Does she start fights? I would definitely set boundaries with the female (and the male) - not allowing her on furniture, not allowing her to guard toys/food/beds, and practicing NILIF religiously should really help to calm her down.


I really only signed up for these forums to find ways to better care for my animals and not to debate ideologies. All I'm doing is saying that breeding is not my concern at the moment. IF I were to breed my animals it wouldn't be for another year or more anyways....One person can only do so much and I already have several causes in my life outside of making people knowledgeable about breeding animals. When 20% of our nation's poorest people are children (we currently have a 12.6% poverty rate...higher than most countries), I find I take a stronger stance of the needs of them over any stance on animal breeding. If animal rights (or whatever it falls into) is your stance, that is great (I'm serious...it really is great). I don't see myself as a bad pet owner for simply not making such things my priority in life.

The thing is... breeding practices DO concern "caring for animals". I'm glad you are waiting to breed, and not jumping into it. Dogs certaintly shouldn't be bred before they're 2+ years old and full grown, anyway. Plenty of people breed dogs the instant it's possible, when they're still pupies themselves, and it's great that you know better.

You are not a bad pet owner if you don't research responsible breeding practices. However, that would make you a bad dog breeder. Would you buy ANY kind of product, or service, from some one who had only a basic idea of what they were doing, who weren't dedicated to doing it reputably? To become a breeder is to become invested in breeding; it is your choice whether or not to do it responsibly, but you're invested regardless. Bringing lives into this world, social, intelligent, fairly long-lived (15+ years for Pekes) lives, really shouldn't be taken lightly. Pekingese in particular is a breed that is incredibly prone to health issues and birthing issues, in addition to being a breed that is rampant with BYBs who are breeding away from their original standard. Consider a $1000 c-section, an injured/dead Mother dog, etc, etc... just for the fun of breeding? All I advise you to do is THINK, long and hard, about the seriousness of breeding before you do it; research is a good thing, the more you know, the better. http://www.learntobreed.com is a very informative website.

I strongly encourage you to, when your dogs are 2+ years old and if you still plan on breeding, get their hips, elbows, patellas, and backs x-rayed, their hearts checked, and their eyes CERF'ed. To not do at least this is literally playing russian roulette with the lives of their unborn puppies. It is also important to consider the temperament of both of your dogs - an "aggressive", dominant, pushy female and a shy, flighty male? I don't know your dogs, you know them. Honestly consider, objectively, if they are good examples of their breed.

[Pekemom]

The thing is, I do step in when Bianca bullies my male animal. The problem is, she does it a LOT. He hates it, and will many times try to climb up to the highest parts of the furniture where she can't reach him (since she is still small). She is constantly trying to drag him into playing with her when he obviously doesn't want to...even if he has been playing with her and tries to stop the play, she doesn't let him until she is ready. We have stopped allowing her on furniture because it became an issue that she started getting on the coffee table and knocking drinks over. Koie generally waits to be asked onto the couch or recliners, but Bianca seems to think she owns them. We also stop her from "stealing" her toys if she becomes too persistent with the behavior-meaning, if she repeatedly takes things from him in a short period of time. I just hate getting up and interfering with it so much because he seems to think HE is the one doing something wrong. So, instead of her changing the dominant behavior he becomes even more submissive.

My fiance and I have been feeding Bianca on one side of the dog gate and the male on the other. We were concerned as well that she would begin overeating. We regulate the servings they get, so we didn't want her taking his since he's already such a picky eater.

The male used to be much more assertive before we got Bianca. With our Weim, he was much more dominant-never let her take his food, never let her push him around, and normally "won" playtime wrestles. He's always been laid back, but it's so strange that he quit being assertive when Bianca came into our home. We're doing our best though to regulate a bit better, and have read (and are implementing) NILIF. It seems like she's becoming very nervous though, so I hope eventually she gets more comfortable with it.



In response to BK, the reason why I wanted to wait in the first place is so my animals would be more mature. I've seen what can happen to females who are bred the instant the first come into heat, and I've seen that it can cause a whole litter of pups to die. I've done my research on Pekes, and what I've learned from it is that I need to do more. I would never breed my animals without being entirely prepared-whether it be financially or simply being knowledgeable. My point is, I'm still considering the option, but not pursuing. Neither me or my fiance have decided if we want to breed our animals. That is why I don't like being forced into a decision that I would like to decide for myself through research and serious consideration. I definitely see your viewpoint, and it is one that I will actively take into consideration when it is time to make the decision. On the other hand, we will probably decide within the next few months what we want for their future because there would be no reason postponing neutering if we decide not to.

[Giselle]

Ah, I see the problem.

Rather than stepping in and doling out constant punishment and corrections, recall Bianca. The recall takes care of both major issues: it stops Bianca from bullying Koie and it redirects her attention back to you (it gives her a positive, alternative behavior).

So, every time you see Bianca bullying Koie, immediately recall her. Reward her. Send her back out to do something else or redirect her with a toy, command, whatever. Initially, you'll be doing a lot of recalls, but that's perfectly normal and it's good. The more you recall and the more you reward her for a good recall, the stronger this behavior becomes and the less she will bully Koie. It becomes a transfer of value. The value of coming back to you becomes higher than the value of bullying Koie. As you can probably tell, you'll need a very strong recall to begin with, so start reinforcing your "Come's" now. Reward often and make it a game.

[Giselle]

By the way, Pekemom, I can see that you're putting a lot of thought into your pups and I really do commend you for keeping such an open mind. But the issue of pet overpopulation is just as bad, if not worse, down South/in the boonies. I was reading an article about pilots who fly pets from overpopulated areas into areas with less of the problem. Here's a quote:

The mission-of-mercy relocations are flown by general aviation pilots who have signed on with the recently formed Pilots N Paws, a Web-based message board where pilots can access information about animals in need.

Once the electronic connection is made, dogs plucked by rescuers from death row — mostly in the South where sterilization rates are low and pet overpopulation is rampant — are loaded onto small planes and flown one, two or six at a time to rescue groups and shelters that have available space.

Some food for thought :)

[Pekemom]

I don't exactly live in the "boonies" at the moment, but the problem is actually less in places like that because there are fewer people in more agricultural areas. The problem comes closer to the small towns where certain laws concerning animals aren't priority-mainly leashing. This allows animals to run around and do as they please. The South historically has higher rates of poverty and lower income households (mainly due to the coal industry and agricultural roots). This higher concentration of lower income families who cannot afford neutering and so forth allows for the animal populations to get out of control. That isn't exactly the problem of overbreeding that has been eluded to since people aren't choosing to breed the animals, the animals just aren't being controlled.

The area I live in now (towards the mountains) has less of a problem with what I just mentioned than the area I came from. You just don't see as many dogs running around wild here-I'm not sure if it's due to the mountains, more species of wildlife, or just stricter enforcement of laws and neutering. Areas like this are areas that house more breeders, but the types of breeds being bred here are mainly limited to a few varieties.

Honestly, I don't understand why shelters charge so much in adoption fees in areas that have problems like this. I have seen people whose animals have a litter simply give the pups away for free. People are much more likely to want free animals than pay for animals from a shelter (at least the lower income families I mentioned). I don't think this is anything bad on their part-they aren't purposefully encouraging certain breeding issues. I also don't think that families should be excluded from enjoying the happiness that animals bring to a home simply because they aren't as affluent or as knowledgeable as other families.

The only reason I'd want to breed my animals is that I enjoy them. I like the breed quite a bit. I've not found any Peke breeders in this area because they aren't a popular breed here. Many members of my family have fallen in love with the breed too, but they've not found any Pekes to adopt. I'm sure when I say I'd possibly like to "breed" my animals one day makes some think that I'd be breeding my animals twice a year and selling off litters of 7, 8, 9 pups...that isn't the case. I'd likely not breed them often....and like I've stated, I've not decided either way yet.

[mruffruff]

Shelters charge the fees they do because of the services they have provided for the animal. In South Carolina, any animal leaving the shelter must, by law, be spayed or neutered. All shots need to be up to date. And some of the animals have been housed and fed for some time, until they are healthy enough to be adopted. Adopters should not need to see a vet for the first year. In the case of very young animals, the adopters are given vouchers for the spay/neutering, to be used at the appropriate time.

Some shelters are willing to work with lower income families so they can have the pet they want. I know ours does. Ours also has 'two-fer"s where the price includes two animals.

"Free" animals aren't really free if you are a responsible owner. An initial vet bill for shots and spay/neutering can run over $150 in most places.

I have to agree that the leash laws aren't enforced enough. In fact, most of the animal laws are considered nuisance laws by the enforcement agencies.

Often in the 'boonies' the litters are disposed of quickly when they are born. Some are food for larger animals and some die of starvation/hypothermia, etc.

I hope that the litter you plan to have is pre-adopted. That is, that you have good homes for each of the pups before you begin the breeding process.

[dogsonly95]

maybe your femdog is PMS-ing or she feels suspicious of your male dog.
has he done anything to you or her in the past that would make her feel this way?