Bad Dog Dandruff and Hair Loss in NM

[mwormser]

Help Anyone! Two years ago my 11 years old Golden Retriever / Black lab mix Jet, started getting bad dandruff and lost his hair. After losing his hair he developed scabs, which are still present. The hair grew back, somewhat.

My vet didn’t know what it was so he sent me to a dog dermatologist. Over $3000 later Jet still looked the same .He checked for cancer and was negative. He had many blood tests, yeast tests, fungus tests, cancer tests stool tests, urine tests, mites, fleas, and on and on All negative. The only test that was positive was a bacterial infection. One month of Cephelexin, nothing. One month of Cipro, still nothing.

After 6 months, I went to a recommended holistic vet. Over $2,000 later and more tests, the Vet didn’t know why Jet wasn’t responding to herbs.

Then to a Doctor of Oriental Medicine and more herbs. Nothing.

I went back to my regular vet and said to send the file to a vet school. The school had no recommendations. I read an article about Colostrum and am trying this. I am also shampooing him every 4-6 days with a mixture of 4% Chlorhexiderm and Betadyne. It works on the dandruff but his huge scabs won’t go away.

Jet is a trooper. He has been through a lot. Thankfully, the skin problem doesn’t make him itch.

If anyone reading this letter has had a similar experience please tell us what you did. Jet and the family thank you very much.

Martin Wormser

[Katy's Mum]

All I can say is that it sounds like my Katy (Welsh Terrier) but she gets the itchy part as an add on.

Hers is due to a dust mite allergy but that took the skin specialist 18 months to work out. Thankfully her hair has grown back and she only has the occasional breakout and never as badly as the original one when she lost most of her hair. She was on a monthly injection to help but after about 2 years it appears to have lost its strength so we are back to the corozone injection once a month.

I have found Aloe Vera gel helps in her ears when they are giving her problems, but it does make her skin lovely and soft and gets rid of the flaky scabs, which to me look like what we call "cradle cap" which you get on some babies heads shortly after they are born - I remember rubbing slightly warmed olive oil in my daughters head to help lift the flakes of skin off.

Good luck with the search for an answer. :love:

[mwormser]

Dust mite allergy? Interesting since it stared when we moved to NM 3 years ago. Monday Jet had a cortizone injection and started Cephalexin. Tomorrow starts Prednisone.

Thanks martin and Jet

[mwormser]

Now that I'm thinking about it, The bedding came from California 3 years ago.
Even though we wash the cover once a week, the inside has never been washed.

Time for new bedding. We'll try this. Thanks

martin

[Karen]

Yes, and if you can, keep the plastic cover on the bedding, then put a washable cover over that. I am a human with a severe dust/dust mite allergy, and kept the "packing" plastic on my box spring by doctor's orders. We also regularly wash the mattress cover, as well at sheets and comforter.

Also, if he lays on a certain section of carpet - vacuum that regularly with a HEPA filter-equipped vac. And scoot him out of the room when you're doing the vacuuming, too!

[Catlady711]

Since you said it didn't start until you moved did any of the vets do allergy testing or skin scrapings? I didn't notice those listed specifically in your post.

Whatever it is I hope your poor baby gets straightened out soon.

[mwormser]

Yes, the dog dermitologist did several scrapings and biopsy. I'm not sure there was an allergy test per se. Possibly, the vet who saw the severty of his skin, thought it wasn't. We did change his food many times. Was on a fish diet for a month, so it's not a food allergy.

I'll ask my regular vet who is back treating him although all vets are stumped. He is being treated now with cephelexin and prednisone.

Seems to be working. He looks OK. Although his scabs are large. Gross.

I did go to Costco and bought all new bedding for Jet. Threw out all the old dog beds. They were a couple of years old.

Thanks martin and jet

[Catlady711]

Yes, the dog dermitologist did several scrapings and biopsy. I'm not sure there was an allergy test per se. Possibly, the vet who saw the severty of his skin, thought it wasn't. We did change his food many times. Was on a fish diet for a month, so it's not a food allergy.

I'll ask my regular vet who is back treating him although all vets are stumped. He is being treated now with cepelexin and prednisone.

Seems to be working. He looks OK. Although his scabs are large. Gross.

I did go to Costco and bought all new bedding for Jet. Threw out all the old dog beds. They were a couple of years old.

Thanks martin and jet

I believe allergy testing is done by blood samples, and I'm pretty sure they have to be off all medications for a time period prior to testing. I would think that the dermatologist probably has done those tests but found inconclusive results, I just can't imagine a dermatologist not doing allergy testing.

Good luck, hope the new bedding works to help.

[pomtzu]

I had the same problem with my Pom. She had very bad dandruf - most on her hind quarters and on her back by her tail. It always flared up with the onset of Fall. She had huge dandruf flakes - some the size of a quarter - and then she would lose her hair and get the oily scabs. Her blood work showed that her thyroid was somewhat sluggish and she was put on meds for that, had cortizone and pred shots for a while, and I added Omega 3 fish oil to her diet, and all that helped. She no longer gets any shots on a regular basis - maybe just 2 or 3 times a year when needed - and all the nasty oil, scabby type dandruf has gone away. She still gets a little "regular" dandruf - but just tiny flakes - nothing severe like she used to. I still tell her that she's a "flake"! :p

[mwormser]

Thanks pom, He has been on thyroid for 2 years now. Got his cortisone shot, on prednisone and cephelexin. Dandruff down a little. Still has HUGE scabs.

Interesting, a lot of the scabs are on his hind quarter. I shaved some of the dried ones off and the skin looks OK. It's so gross.

m

[zippy-kat]

Have you heard of Shapley's MTG?

http://www.shapleys.com/products_view.aspx?articleid=17

I use it on my horse to promote hair growth (mane/tail as well as cuts/scrapes). And I've found that working it into her skin, also helps protect my hands from this dry climate. (I live in the southern part of NM.)

It's a little oily so after application you might want to crate Jet (or, if he'll tolerate it, put a tshirt on him) to protect your furniture, carpet, etc. MTG has a strange smell - it's not unpleasant yet it's not exactly welcoming either.

A 32oz bottle should set you back about $15.

Good luck!

[Flatcoatluver]

That sounds a lot like the problem I had with Zoey my flat-coat. She used to have really bad dandruffy skin, scaps, and would pull out her hair. I found out it was a food allergy.

For the first couple years of her life she had no problems with food at all, and then when she started getting all the skin issues I switched her from kirkland dog food to a higher quality dog food. That didn't work. I have probally tried over 25 different dog foods until I switched her over to EVO innova at night and raw in the AM. Finally the dandruff and scaps went away and she also stopped pulling her hair out.

I would look at what your feeding her as well. Just a thought.

[mwormser]

Hi flat coat,

The dog dermatologist made me give Jet fish for a month and there was no difference. I have tried several different foods. He now get cooked chicken,
Delightly seasoned in a crock pot :)) and Keen, similar to Force. It's a dry meat and grain powder which you mix with water. Nothing is working.

His scabs are getting worse. He is on Cephelexin 500 mg 2Xday and Prednisone 1Xday. Nothing works.

Here are some pics. Hope they work.

Good thought though. I'll change his diet again. Possibly the kibble I was feeding him 3 years ago before this happened. I think it was crappy Pro plan.
Just thinking (out of the box).

martin and jet

[Flatcoatluver]

Aww poor Jet, that looks a lot like what Zoey used to have and it bothered her so much. I also use a powder on Zoey's food in the pm called NutriVed O.F.A Granules (Microencapsulated) I got this fromthe vet and it has helped her skin and coat sooo much. Good Luck!

[pomtzu]

Those pics look exactly like what my Pom used to look like. Has he had is thyroid tested lately to see if maybe his dosage needs to be adjusted? Just a thought.............

[mwormser]

Thanks, going to the vet next week. He will get a throid test. He is on a low dose. He gets .6 mg L-thyroxin. Maybe he neds a higher dose although he was on a higher dose last year.

Will try Nutrived OFA Granules for Dogs. Looks great. Maybe I'll take some too. :)

Thanks for the replies. Something has to work.

martin and jet

[shepgirl]

Those pictures look identical to my what my cousin's dog had. They tried everything on her with no results. One vet suggested it was caused by the immune system and said to try the dog on raw food diet. It took about a month and she has no sores, hair loss or dandruff. Has beautiful skin and shiny coat. Don't know if it would work for your dog, might be worth trying.

[mwormser]

SHEPGIRL, just switched to raw food yesterday. I'll tell you, if Jet isn't hungry, then there is really something wrong. What a pigdog he is. He loves his duck.

FLATCOAT, Can't find anyone in town that sells Nutrived OFA. Am ordering is online today.

ZIPPYCAT, Can't find anyone who sells MTG in town. Am ordering it today.

Jet's scabs are growing. I also believe his immune system is down. I will try anything.

Thanks for all the replies.

martin and jet

[mwormser]

CATLADY711, I went to the Vet and he did an allergy test. It takes 2 weeks to get back. If allergic, the company makes a serum.

SHEPGIRL Still on raw food. He loves it.

FLATCOAT The vet said stick with the raw food diet for a couple of weeks. If the condition still doesn't change them try the Nutrived OFA.

ZIPPYCAT The vet said to hold off for now the the Shepleys MTG.

All of you thanks for your input.

Jet is still on Cephalexin and Prednisone.

I just hope something works although all the Vets say he has a chronic problem and he will not be entirely get cured. :confused:

Jet will be 12 next year and he is still a happy go lucky buddy. The skin condition really doesn't seem to bother him much. He's a trooper.

Martin and jet

[polarpooch]

Sounds similar to what our old poodle had when he got to his senior years-around 11 or 12. He was scabby, flakey, had lots huge patches of hair missing, and all the hair on his tail fell out. He was a mess. And he smelled awful. After many tests (including cancer tests and allergy screening), lots of money, lots of drugs, it turned out to be his thyroid that was causing most of his problem. (which had been tested before, by the way) The vet put him on a dose of medication for the thyroid, and it helped him quite a bit. He never did totally recover from the condition, however. It was something we just had to manage. He required baths in a special treatment shampoo, and an Rx salve for his scabbies when he'd scratch open a sore (which happened less frequently after the thyroid meds). Sometimes he'd need to be on a course of antibiotics, because his sores would get infected. We also gave him benedryl and a low dose aspirin occasionally, on vet's recommendation, just to make him feel better. But he never seemed to mind any of it. He lived till he was 16. Don't know if this helps. But I can say, it sure was a maddening process trying to figure out what was wrong with him. Best of luck.

[mwormser]

Thanks Polar,

Jet went to the vet yesterday. He did an expensive allergy screening and a thyroid test. He has been on thyroid pills since this horrible experience started. Maybe his thyroid has changed. Maybe a higher dose. One vet lowered it from .8 mg and is now getting .6 mg.

martin and jet

[shepgirl]

You have to give the dog about a month for his system to clear up on raw. Then his immune system starts picking up and it just disappears. You could try bathing him with a medicated shampoo every second day to help the itch and the pain. Good luck, I know it's no picnic.

[mwormser]

Thanks Shep, He gets a bath (shhhh don't say it too loudly) at least once a week with 4% Chlorhexiderm shampoo. He looks great after for about 4 days then the dandruff comes back.

His thyroid test came back. He is in the normal range but on the high side of normal. Which can cause other problems.

He gets a patty of duck in morning and night. It's mixed with a little Force.

Luckily my brother owns Long Leash on Life, a pet food store in Albuquerque.
longleashonlife.com. (They don't sell anything on their web site) He is just too busy. Recession has not hit any pet food store.

martin

[shepgirl]

Chlorhexiderm is a good shampoo used by many vets for skin conditions. I know giving it time is really hard but I guess it's like some conditions in humans, they just need time. If you don't see improvements in a month I would do another blood panel. Sounds a lot like food allergies.

[gargoylegabe]

hi martin and jet.

i was looking at your pictures and it looks damn similar to what my black lab mix has. kind of white clumpy scabs that creates a lot of dandruff and bits of hair loss. i believe i read that it doesn't itch excessively, which is consistent with my dog snefru, although it looks like it should itch him more. anyway, i'm curious as to your current findings. i wish you luck, and thank you for sharing.

[flip195]

Did they check for cushing, that is how my dog started then her coat started to lighten.

[mwormser]

4 vets can't figure it out and don't know what it is. I find that very odd.

The only thing that apperars to work is the 4% chlorohexaderm shampoo.

It keeps the dandruff down but does nothing for the scabs. I end up using my fingernails and scraping them off. It's gross. If I could wash Jet every day, I think it would keep the scabs down but that's not possible. I end up doing it once a week or less. Seems like 4 days is the best.

Cushing? I'll have to look that up.

Good luck with Snerfu. And yes thankfully, it doesn't itch him.

One other thing I didn't mention is that his toenails are pithy, curving and thin. Another side effect of his dissability.

martin

[mwormser]

Just put in a call to my vet. Chushing sounds almost like what he has.

Thanks martin

[kokopup]

Sorry to be posting late in your problem but I would like to relate how Koko was treated. Koko is a Golden/lab mix also. She had the same issues as your dog so we ended up at Auburn University School of Veterinary Medicine. They did all the allergy scratch and blood test that showed her allergic to common things like dust mites etc. She also had a low normal thyroid. When we started her treatment her back was one big crusted scab and dandruff so bad that it filled the brush when we brushed her. She was bald in spots all over her back and tail.

The School came up with an allergy shot that we had to first administer every other day and has now gotten down to once a month. She was on Cephalexin and Prednisone what seemed like and eternity. The first at home treatment was a bi-weekly shampoo in a lime/sulphur concoction that we had to leave on her. She recieved this shampoo twice weekly for a month. Since then I have shampooed her once a week in Virbac Etiderm Shampoo.

I have changed her food to eliminate all corn and beef. She is now on a "Chicken, Rice and Oatmeal" by Nutro.

The Auburn vet elected not to treat her thyroid even though my local Vet was.

She has TOTALLY cleared up and her coat now does not have a single trace of dandruff and no scabs. Every one comments on how shiney and soft her coat is. This time last year it was dry brittle and falling out. Her normally bushy tail was bald in spots.

I guess we were lucky that the Auburn Schools approach has been successful for us. I wish you luck.

[kokopup]

Quote by mwormser


Just put in a call to my vet. Chushing sounds almost like what he has.


Unless your dog has been getting to much Prednisone I doubt it has cushings. I haven't heard of any symptoms in your post that would lead me to believe this is the case. Cushings can be brought on by over adminstration of glucocorticoid drugs like prednisone. Otherwise it is usually a tumor or old age that can bring it on.

[mwormser]

Thanks for the info. The vet didn't seem to think it was Cushings either. I did order an allergy shot. It take 10 days to manufacture.

The question is, How much money should you spend on a 12 year old dog? Granted I love my Jet and we have been through a lot together but it has already cost me 6K in tests with no diagnosis.

martin

[kokopup]

It is always a hard call when it comes to our pets and when is enough, enough. I have spent a fortune on Koko so I know how you feel. I have probably spent 6k+ on her and she is just 4 now. I had a $3700 bill for double CCL surgery when she was less than one.

Although 12 is considered old in retriever years I know you still want to do all you can to keep your beloved Jet comfortable..

You might try some of the things I posted that worked with Koko. I think her food was one of the issues we were fighting in addition to the allergies to household mold/dust mites etc. If she still has scabs you might try the lime/sulphur treatment along with the Etiderm shampoo.

Good luck to you and Jet.

[mwormser]

Didn't know I had to give him shots. Hate needles. I thought it was going to be 1 big shot the vet gave him. This is the last medical thing I can do besides bringing him to the Mayo Clinic for dogs, where ever it is.

martin and jet

[kokopup]

I give Koko her shot once a month. I hate shots myself but I have found that Koko doesn't even know when I give her the shot. The shot in combination to finding her the right non allergic food has her completely free of scale and dandruff. I hope the shots will help your dog. Give it time to work. It took several months before we say results. The Lime/sulphur dip along with the Etiderm shampoo helped clear up the lesions that she already had. These are things you can do yourself also.

[mwormser]

KOKO, I think they are working. It's been 2 months and the scabs are much smaller. No more gigantic ones. I just shaved his hair and his skin looks ok.

He looks funny since I only shaved his back and sides.

I wash him 1 a week in Chlorhexaderm 4% and a Chlorhexiderm spray.

martin

[kokopup]

Good to hear that you are starting to see results. I know it seemed like
forever before I saw results ,but the lesions did heal and have stayed
away. I had given Koko a lab cut last year and the sores were very visible
with her short hair. This year there are no scabs or dandruff and her coat
is nice and shiny.

Hang in there.

Bill

[abbyfischer]

hi i hope that your dog is doing better sometimes a change in food to a natural raw meaty bone diet can help really helped a friends spaniel when she tried it. just a thought!!!

[mwormser]

2 days ago I got a bottle of 45 ppm colloidal silver. I started spraying it on Jet's head which was full of scabs. Very very gross.

I think it's working. His skin is looking better and no new scabs are forming.

Today I am getting some colloidal silver for him to take internally in his water.

It's been only 2 days and I will keep you informed.

martin

[mwormser]

Hello all,

After 4 years and $8,000 plus in every test possible, visits, specialists, special diets, shots, creams, special shampoos and more, I CURED MY 13 year old OLD BUDDY MYSELF!;)

So how did I do it? It's an interesting story.

I just spent the last 4 years of baths for Jet with a special shampoo, using my fingernail to scrape off his scabs, which he had all over his body. The scabs would never heal. It was the ultimate in grossness. SEE THE PHOTOS I POSTED. GAARRROOOSSSS. And it smelled to high heaven. The blood on the walls and carpet made my wife cringe. My wife wanted to put him down.

In February, I got a case a case of Ringworm. It started out as a 7 raised red bumps. After a couple of weeks of scratching, I went to a dermotologist. She tested it for ringworm. It was negative! So the dermotologist then gave me some cream to stop itching and went of vacation for 3 weeks. Over the 3 weeks, I got the worst case of ring worm anybody has seen. On my stomach a circle of 10". It was pure torture. Saw the dermo after 4 weeks and she tested it. Walaaa, it was ringworm. She put me on ring worm pills. (My wife knew it at the beginning)

After 6 weeks the, ringworm got smaller and the pills were working. Still isn't totally gone yet. It's been 5 months.

I asked the dermo, why she didn't recognize this as possible ringworm. She said it is sometimes likely that the first test of ringworm is negative for fungus. I asked my neighbor, an ER doc and he confirmed this.

(I didn't ask the dermo, knowing this, why didn't you just treat me for ringworm?) It would have saved me 4 months of pure torture of itching.

Anyway, I said to myself, maybe the dog dermatologist's lab result also tested negative for fungus. So I looked on the internet about dog fungus and saw they gave the same medicine as I was taking!!!!

So, I gave him 1/4 of a 250mg terbinafine (lotrimin) After 1 1/2 months, the scabs virtually disappeared. A couple of days ago, I bathed him and found a couple of bb sized scabs. His hair growing back and for 13 he's got a new life. (I know he going to doggie heaven but at least he's going with a shiny healthy coat of hair)

WE'RE NOT DONE YET WITH THE STORY.

So, I called my vet and said I cured Jet. All you vets (3 of them) and a specialist didn't know it was a simple fungus infection. All is need is a perscripion of 250 terbinafine at Walmart for $4 a month. Cut in 4's, that's $1 a month.

You see, I have given Dr. Bolton in Albuquerque 10 thousand+ of dollars in business in the past 5 years. He has seen Jet with his scabs a dozen or more times. In fact, he saw him last February and said he is not going to last past the Fall. He's 13.

Did he give me prescription for terbinafine?

HELL NO. HE WANTED TO SEE HIM FOR A $50 OFFICE VISIT. The vet wanted more money, even though he said, himself, Jet is going to die this year. Even though I spent thousands at his office. Is it greed. Is it arrogance. I just don't know.

He is fired. So Dr. Bolton, if you are reading this, YOUR'E FIRED.:p

Also the dog dermotologist, Dr. Thomas Lewis of Albuquerque NM and Chandler AZ, you are going to get one hell of a letter. This whole thing snowballed with your fungus tests which were negative and you could have treated him with a simple medicine. :mad:

AM I ANGRY? YOU BET I AM.

[Catlady711]

I can't blame you for being angry. Even if the test was negative for Ringworm, a vet with very much experience should have recognized the symptoms and possibly done a trial treatment just to see if it would help.

Where I work they also sometimes use a Woods Lamp (blacklight) to help in diagnosing Ringworm. But often they'll pull on years of experience with the symptoms despite negative test results and have had much luck with it.

I don't know that your bad experience with vets is just greed, or a fear of making a medical decision based on experience vs having proof positive lab results to confirm them. Sometimes vets, and human doctors, get so frightened of not being 100% positive on something until they have lab work to back it up that they won't do anything without it. I think it hinders them.

Glad to hear that after all that your dog is scab free now.

[mwormser]

CAT, I agree with you but I think arrogance comes into play also. Even my dermotologist didn't treat me for ringworm until it REALLY looked like ringworm.

OTOH isn't ringwrom and fungus infection basic dermotology 101?
4 years of scraping off bloody scabs every 5-7 days is mind boggling.

Shouldn't they be responsible? I already talked to 1 arrogant vet. Still have to talk to the other 2 who have no idea I cured Jet for $2.

martin