Boy shot, killed trick-or-treating; two injured **Update #62

[Catty1]

I guess the monsters really do appear on Hallowe'en :(:mad:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081101/world/trick_or_treat_killing

Sat Nov 1, 1:55 AM

By The Associated Press

SUMTER, S.C. - A 12-year-old boy trick-or-treating with his family was shot from inside a home Friday and killed, and his father and brother were wounded by the gunfire, authorities said.

A suspect was in custody and police called the shooting an isolated incident. The family was headed home from a city-sponsored event downtown when they decided to stop at a few homes, Sumter Police Chief Patty Patterson said. The father and his four children approached a home with a porch light on about 8:30 p.m. while their mother waited nearby in a vehicle.

As the family was at the door, they thought they heard fireworks. The 12-year-old boy, his father and brother were all hit by the gunfire. The boy died at a hospital, Coroner Verna Moore said. The other two children were not hurt.

The boy's father and brother were taken to a hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. Patterson has not released the man's name or the identities of the family.

She also would not release any more details about the shooting.

The police said there were other people inside the home at the time of the shooting, but she didn't expect any of them to be charged.

A neighbor said he heard a loud noise about the time of the shooting and thought it was simply Halloween mischief.

"I thought, trick-or-treat night - pranks go down. Anything goes," said Lenwood Dixon, 49. "I heard a noise like maybe gunfire, then my daughter saw a bunch of lights flashing and saw some cops."

"I'm surprised. Since I was here, I'd never heard of anything like that happening. It's a quiet neighborhood," he said. "You don't see many children in the neighbourhood. It's more elderly."

[Karen]

Tragic.

[Medusa]

Oh my. So sad.

[Taz_Zoee]

Oh my, so very sad. A family celebrating a kids holiday and something like this happens. Horrible. :(

[Edwina's Secretary]

I say it again...guns. :-(( :-((

[Medusa]

He feared that the trick-or-treater was a robber, police say.

http://www.yahoo.com/s/980668

[Catty1]

And he's an ex-con. The porch light was on...didn't he SEE it was a child? :(

[BC_MoM]

:( They will be in my prayers.

[Lady's Human]

And I'll say it again.


What was a convicted felon doing with a firearm?

Enforce the laws we have on the books.

[sparks19]

And I'll say it again.


What was a convicted felon doing with a firearm?

Enforce the laws we have on the books.

AGREED

But didn't you know... the gun pulled the trigger all on it's OWN. don't punish the poor criminals :(

tragic story. I really feel for this boys family.

[Edwina's Secretary]

When your child is dead....does it matter who gets punished? What was a convicted felon doing with a gun?...because he could. Such a sickness...So tragic...

[Lady's Human]

And again....if the EXISTING LAWSwere being enforced, the convicted felon would not have had the firearm.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And again....if the EXISTING LAWSwere being enforced, the convicted felon would not have had the firearm.


But he did. And a child is dead.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I would edit but that seems to bother some...so...

another child is dead.

[Lady's Human]

And your solution would be to shred the second amendment, rather than insist exisiting laws be enforced.

[blue]

LH, the answer the liberals have is to sidestep the constitution with new laws, like Clinton did with the AWB on the Second Amendment.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And your solution would be to shred the second amendment, rather than insist exisiting laws be enforced.

You and I do not interpret the Second Amendment the same way.

But it is a choice...which do you care more about preserving -- guns or children?

[blue]

You and I do not interpret the Second Amendment the same way.

But it is a choice...which do you care more about preserving -- guns or children?

I know this was addressed to LH, but the answer is both.

[Lady's Human]

Rights, and let people take responsibility for their actions. Had the felon with multiple convictions been in jail, this wouldn't have happened.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Rights, and let people take responsibility for their actions. Had the felon with multiple convictions been in jail, this wouldn't have happened.

But the felon wasn't in jail and the boy is dead.

Along with the eight other children killed on average every day in this country by firearms.

(About 100 children are abducted each year in this country by strangers. That is 100 too many. But they get far more advocacy than the 9 children killed each day on average by firearms in this country.)

It is sad that some value guns more than children.

[Lady's Human]

Define "children"

If you're using CDC stats, then those "children" include those in the 18-21 y/o age group, who are hardly children.

[blue]

But the felon wasn't in jail and the boy is dead.

Along with the eight other children killed on average every day in this country by firearms.

(About 100 children are abducted each year in this country by strangers. That is 100 too many. But they get far more advocacy than the 9 children killed each day on average by firearms in this country.)

It is sad that some value guns more than children.

The source on your statistics please.

[Lady's Human]

The CDC actually reports 10 deaths per day for children in their stats for the year 2000.......HOWEVER....

They band the age groups, deaths ages 15-19 and 20-24.......

which means 24 year olds could be (and were) counted as children using their banded stats.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr48/nvs48_11.pdf

[blue]

If you check the CDC stats a child is more likely to die by falling, drowning, or desease then from a gunshot.

[Lady's Human]

Ban 5-gallon buckets!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Define "children"

If you're using CDC stats, then those "children" include those in the 18-21 y/o age group, who are hardly children.

American Academy of Pediatrics. Do I understand then that you think it is okay to kill people after they reach a certain age? Once the are 18 what the heck?

It is a flawed argument to try and compare guns and 5 gallon buckets. Five gallon buckets exist to contain water or other materials. Guns exists to kill.

[lvpets2002]

:( This is such a Horrible & Tragic Story.. How Horrible for the family..

[mruffruff]

How can anyone justify an AK47? Law abiding citizens don't want them.

[Lady's Human]

As usual, the media blows it. Actual AK-47 assult rifles are very, very difficult to get, and there aren't many in the US.

ES, it's not that there's a magical age where it's "okay" to kill someone, but to say that something needs to be done to "protect the children" while using stats which include 24 year old adults is disingenuous at best.

[Cataholic]

If you check the CDC stats a child is more likely to die by falling, drowning, or desease then from a gunshot.

And, we actively work to keep those tragedies from happening, too. You know, safety latches on windows, fences around pools, immunizations?

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES, it's not that there's a magical age where it's "okay" to kill someone, but to say that something needs to be done to "protect the children" while using stats which include 24 year old adults is disingenuous at best.

Okay...so if it is only five children a day...is that okay? (And I found stats as high as 15 children a day are killed by firearms but choose to go with the more conservative number.)

You quibble with the numbers to avoid addressing the issue.

What is the number of children killed by firearms on average each day in the country that is acceptable?

[Lady's Human]

Regardless they aren't killed by the gun, they're killed by whoever pulls the trigger. A gun is an inanimate object, and cannot do anthing by itself.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Regardless they aren't killed by the gun, they're killed by whoever pulls the trigger. A gun is an inanimate object, and cannot do anthing by itself.

Riiiigghhhttt. Fall back on that old one!

Like the kid who shot himself in the head at the gun show. It was his own fault! He pulled the trigger.

[Lady's Human]

ES, we will never, ever agree on this issue. Why, praytell, must you keep starting this argument?

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES, we will never, ever agree on this issue. Why, praytell, must you keep starting this argument?

Why, praytell, do you? Go back to page one...I posted...you counterposted.

Although all you have done is bob and weave!

[Lady's Human]

Es, every, and I mean EVERY time someone makes a post about something even remotely involving a firearm, you start preaching about how evil they are.

They're tools, inanimate objects, and cannot harm anyone without outside intervention (i.e. someone pulling the trigger).

The stats you posted are hypebole, as is everything else you post on this topic.

It's a simple matter, really, a multi-time convicted felon (at 22 this should raise alarms to begin with) acquires a weapon illegally (whoever sold it to him should be going to jail as an accessory to murder) and uses it in the manner one would expect from a felon.Shouldn't have happened, and had the law been followed wouldn't have happened.

Preach all you want about guns, but the implement isn't the issue here. It doesn't matter how many laws you pass, they are going to get broken. There are over 22,000 gun control laws on the books in the US. If they aren't enforced, they cannot work.

Instead of complaining about the inanimate object, which is completely nonsensical, why not complain about the felon?

[RICHARD]

Sex leads to all death on the planet.
A couple has sex, a pregnancy occurs and either-
A) Evil people who kill are born or
B) The rest die of disease, accidents or old age.

Genitals are dangerous too.:eek:

[Edwina's Secretary]

What a pity I cannot be as calm and rational as you are.

Give me a break. You are near hysterical on the subject.

Blathering on with the same tired old rationales.

Interesting to note that I get LOTS of opportunities to "preach"!

Plenty of people...including plenty of kids getting killed -- by firearms.

So what about the kid at the gun show? What about kids playing with daddy's (or mommy's) gun? What about the kid playing in the front yard when hit by a drive by shooter -- who just stole the gun from someone's home.

Dead is dead. You can rationalize the death of children all you want. It doesn't bring them back.

[Lady's Human]

Plenty of kids and adults getting killed by lots of things, yet firearms deaths make national news.The kid drowining in the bathtub just isn't as juicy a topic for the media.

Take away the tool and the death is just another obit. If there's a gun invoved hysteria takes over., and it's on headline news/yahoo/cnn/breitbart in an instant.

If it bleeds, it leads.

[blue]

Plenty of people...including plenty of kids getting killed -- by firearms.

Even more die in traffic accidents, like a firearm cars and trucks are tools and are driven everyday by people with revoked or suspended licenses. Its not the tools its the lack of enforcement.


So what about the kid at the gun show? What about kids playing with daddy's (or mommy's) gun? What about the kid playing in the front yard when hit by a drive by shooter -- who just stole the gun from someone's home.

The kid at the gun show should have been better supervised, that was a tragic example of why firearm safety is so important. If you are a parent with firearms in the house, firearm training needs to start as early as posible. Children need to learn if they come across an unsecured weapon not to touch it and to find the nearest adult to secure it. The wrong thing to do is to make it a thing of mystery, that will only make the child more interested and determined to investigate. What about the children hit by a stolen vehicle, or a drunk driver?


Dead is dead. You can rationalize the death of children all you want. It doesn't bring them back.

Yes dead is dead and you can rationalize your fear/hatred of firearms using the deaths of children, thats not going to stop them from dieing.

A question for you, how many children are still alive due to the responsible use of firearms?

[RICHARD]

Dead is dead.

Ergo cogito sum of a beech just shot me dead.

Ergo cogito, not any more.:(

[sparks19]

But that's OK... because cars are used to get people around... even if the drivers DO use them to get around... who CARES if they kill thousands upon thousands upon thousands... cars have other uses so let them kill people.

funny how no one has commented on my post in the firearms thread about a woman to saved herself from a repeat rapist by exercising her right to bare arms after she was raped the FIRST time and police didnt do anything to protect her. but who cares about the lives lost because they couldn't protect themselves. Lets concentrate on the lives taken by CRIMINALS becasue they use firearms that they shouldn't have had if the laws were enforced.

[Edwina's Secretary]

If it bleeds, it leads.


If nothing else shoots, get a gun.

[blue]

If nothing else shots, get a gun.

Or go the route the thugs in England and Canada went, get a long bladed kitchen knife.

If you had your way ES, that woman in St Louis would have been attacked/raped a second time. I guess kids are more important, I hate to make that assumption but you leave me little choice.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Yesterday five homeless people were shot to death in a camp beside a busy highway. All traffic was shut down on another LA highway because a man was brandishing a gun on the overpass.

And that was just on my way to work!

Sad, sad, sad.

[Lady's Human]

And by the FBI stats, yesterday firearms were used a few thousand times in self defense.

Sad, sad,sad, that people can defend themselves. We should really all be relying on the police..... even though it takes upwards of an hours for a response out here.

[RICHARD]

Sad, sad,sad, that people can defend themselves. We should really all be relying on the police..... even though it takes upwards of an hours for a response out here.

Call the cops out here, I live about 7 blocks away from the station that gave you the Rodney King beating, and you can wait about 45 minutes.

Now, if you get a car chase going, you can have about 6 cars, a chopper and some jail time in minutes!:rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

Today was the funeral of a young man here. Shot and killed just days after his wedding. Cops shot him by mistake. He did nothing but open his front door.

He will not be there for the birth of his daughter in December.

He is dead.

[Lady's Human]

And why were the cops there with guns drawn? I'm sure all was completely innocent.

I thought police were the ones who were qualified to use firearms?

And again, today, firearms were used in self defense thousands of times. thousands of rapes, robberies and murders not committed because law abiding citizens had a firearm to defend themselves with.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And again, today, firearms were used in self defense thousands of times. thousands of rapes, robberies and murders not committed because law abiding citizens had a firearm to defend themselves with.


Yeah right. More of your invisible statistics?

[Lady's Human]

Willful ignorance on your part. The information is out there, you just can't bring yourself to OPEN YOUR EYES.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Willful ignorance on your part. The information is out there, you just can't bring yourself to OPEN YOUR EYES.

So what did you think of the studies on the Academy of Peds website? About how firearm training does nothing to enhance the safety of children? Thate a home with firearms is unsafe for children?

No, YOUR EYES ARE WIDE SHUT.

You think only you are entitled to opinions?

Is it because you think you are right and do not want to hear anything that might suggest otherwise or because you think anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and you don't want to hear anything that might be contrary?

[Lady's Human]

AmPeds stats are countered by the success of the NRA's child's firearm safety training courses.

Unlike some, I'm perfectly willing to look at opposing data, as opposed to some who refuse. I highly doubt you even read the Lott report after finding that it's over 10 years old.

[Edwina's Secretary]

AmPeds stats are countered by the success of the NRA's child's firearm safety training courses.


Flail, flail, flail away LH....NRA...yeah...THERE'S a group with NO political agenda! Please....

[Lady's Human]

And Am Peds DOESN'T have a political agenda?

:rolleyes:

These are the same people who told pediatricians to survey their patients to find out how many parents had guns in the home, and to try and guilt the parents into removing them if they did.

We haven't had to switch pediatricians, though, so it was evidently a less than unanimous response from the Doctors.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And Am Peds DOESN'T have a political agenda?

:rolleyes:

These are the same people who told pediatricians to survey their patients to find out how many parents had guns in the home, and to try and guilt the parents into removing them if they did.

We haven't had to switch pediatricians, though, so it was evidently a less than unanimous response from the Doctors.

Ooooo an eye roll...I thought those the tool of the Liberal Left???

Yes, of course Am Peds has a political agenda...it is called CHILDREN... not guns...CHILDREN

Is that a bad thing?

[Lady's Human]

Am Peds has a political agenda.......

Nanny state BS.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Flail, flail, flail....

Now pediatricians are bad....

what's next??? Kindergarten teachers?

Oh wait...I know...anyone who disagrees with you.

[Lady's Human]

ES< as usual, you're putting words in my keyboard.

Am Peds is more than likely about as representative of their members as the United Methodist Church leadership or APWU leadership. More often than not the leadership of the group comes out with a statement on behalf of the members that has the membership going "huh?"

[RICHARD]

http://petoftheday.com/talk/attachment.php?attachmentid=40723&stc=1&d=1225858593


I woke up one morning and realized that there are two kinds of people on the planet.

The first are the ones that are absolutely 100% grounded in what they believe in and the second group-

We believe in pictures transmitted thru the air, numbers printed on pieces of paper, the magic of science and medicine.

Oh and when arguing with anyone about firearms, you can always win because the other person is unarmed.:eek:

[blue]

Any group that is anti anything is going to post biased statistics in their favor. People who are anti anything are going to site the groups as their source to back up their argument and opinion.

I choose to look at the raw data from the CDC or FBI before believing what AmPed or the NRA puts out as statistics.

[Catty1]

Poor kid was shot 13 times.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,446005,00.html


Quentin L. Patrick, 22, is charged with murder and three counts of assault and battery with intent to kill, Patterson said.

Patrick has multiple convictions for possession with intent to distribute, is a felon and is prohibited from possessing a firearm, police said.

First Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin McDonald said Saturday he will ask the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to investigate. Patrick and his live-in girlfriend, 19-year-old Ericka Patrice Pee, are being held at Sumter-Lee Regional Detention Center.

They were home with her 2-year-old daughter and tried to leave after the shootings, after grabbing $7,500 in bundled cash, police said. Pee is charged with obstruction of justice.

"Patrick admitted to law enforcement that he fired his AK-47 weapon, emptying the weapon," Patterson said. "Patrick advised law enforcement that he had been shot before and would not be shot again." He also feared being robbed, he told police.
__________________

[blue]

Ive owned 3 AK 47 semi auto clones for 7 years. Ive eluded to the amount of magazines I have for these rifles. In those seven years they have not been fired at person or animal. Barring a violent uprising they never will, except to protect my family, friends, pets, and our property.

In other countries he could have answerred the door with an axe or machete, would there be the same outcome? I can only say maybe.