Alaska funded Palin kids' travel

[jennielynn1970]

Not that it's never been done before by anyone else, but nice way to abuse power and use state money. :rolleyes: Imagine the kind of "perks" her kids will receive if she becomes VP.

ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Gov. Sarah Palin charged the state for her children to travel with her, including to events where they were not invited, and later amended expense reports to specify that they were on official business.

The charges included costs for hotel and commercial flights for three daughters to join Palin to watch their father in a snowmobile race, and a trip to New York, where the governor attended a five-hour conference and stayed with 17-year-old Bristol for five days and four nights in a luxury hotel.

In all, Palin has charged the state $21,012 for her three daughters' 64 one-way and 12 round-trip commercial flights since she took office in December 2006. In some other cases, she has charged the state for hotel rooms for the girls.

Alaska law does not specifically address expenses for a governor's children. The law allows for payment of expenses for anyone conducting official state business.

As governor, Palin justified having the state pay for the travel of her daughters — Bristol, 17; Willow, 14; and Piper, 7 — by noting on travel forms that the girls had been invited to attend or participate in events on the governor's schedule.

But some organizers of these events said they were surprised when the Palin children showed up uninvited, or said they agreed to a request by the governor to allow the children to attend.

Several other organizers said the children merely accompanied their mother and did not participate. The trips enabled Palin, whose main state office is in the capital of Juneau, to spend more time with her children.

"She said any event she can take her kids to is an event she tries to attend," said Jennifer McCarthy, who helped organize the June 2007 Family Day Celebration picnic in Ketchikan that Piper attended with her parents.

State Finance Director Kim Garnero told The Associated Press she has not reviewed the Palins' travel expense forms, so she could not say whether the daughters' travel with their mother would meet the definition of official business.

On Aug. 6, three weeks before Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain chose Palin his running mate, and after Alaska reporters asked for the records, Palin ordered changes to previously filed expense reports for her daughters' travel.

In the amended reports, Palin added phrases such as "First Family attending" and "First Family invited" to explain the girls' attendance.

"The governor said, 'I want the purpose and the reason for this travel to be clear,'" said Linda Perez, state director of administrative services.

When Palin released her family's tax records as part of her vice presidential campaign, some tax experts questioned why she did not report the children's state travel reimbursements as income.

The Palins released a review by a Washington attorney who said state law allows the children's travel expenses to be reimbursed and not taxed when they conduct official state business.

Taylor Griffin, a McCain-Palin campaign spokesman, said Palin followed state policy allowing governors to charge for their children's travel. He said the governor's office has invitations requesting the family to attend some events, but he said he did not have them to provide.

In October 2007, Palin brought daughter Bristol along on a trip to New York for a women's leadership conference. Plane tickets from Anchorage to La Guardia Airport for $1,385.11 were billed to the state, records show, and mother and daughter shared a room for four nights at the $707.29-per-night Essex House hotel, which overlooks Central Park.

The event's organizers said Palin asked if she could bring her daughter.

Alexis Gelber, who organized Newsweek's Third Annual Women & Leadership Conference, said she does not know how Bristol ended up attending. Gelber said invitees usually attend alone, but some ask if they can bring a relative or friend.

Griffin, the campaign spokesman, said he believes someone with the event personally sent an e-mail to Bristol inviting her, but he did not have it to provide. Records show Palin also met with Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Goldman Sachs representatives and visited the New York Stock Exchange.

In January, the governor, Willow and Piper showed up at the Alaska Symphony of Seafood Buffet, an Anchorage gala to announce winners of an earlier seafood competition.

"She was just there," said James Browning, executive director of Alaska Fisheries Development Foundation, which runs the event. Griffin said the governor's office received an invitation that was not specifically addressed to anyone.

When Palin amended her children's expense reports, she listed a role for the two girls at the function — "to draw two separate raffle tickets."

In the original travel form, Palin listed a number of events that her children attended and said they were there "in official capacity helping." She did not identify any specific roles for the girls.

In July, the governor charged the state $2,741.26 to take Bristol and Piper to Philadelphia for a meeting of the National Governors Association. The girls had their own room for five nights at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel for $215.46 a night, expense records show.

Expense forms describe the girls' official purpose as "NGA Governor's Youth Programs and family activities." But those programs were activities designed to keep children busy, a service provided by the NGA to accommodate governors and their families, NGA spokeswoman Jodi Omear said.

In addition to the commercial flights, the children have traveled dozens of times with Palin on a state plane. For these flights, the total cost of operating the plane, at $971 an hour, was about $55,000, according to state flight logs. The cost of operating the state plane does not increase when the children join their mother.

The organizer of an American Heart Association luncheon on Feb. 15 in Fairbanks said Palin asked to bring daughter Piper to the event, and the organizer said she was surprised when Palin showed up with daughters Willow and Bristol as well.

The three Palin daughters shared a room separate from their mother at the Princess Lodge in Fairbanks for two nights, at a cost to the state of $129 per night.

The luncheon took place before Palin's husband, Todd, finished fourth in the 2,000-mile Iron Dog snowmobile race, also in Fairbanks. The family greeted him at the finish line.

When Palin showed up at the luncheon with not just Piper but also Willow and Bristol, organizers had to scramble to make room at the main table, said Janet Bartels, who set up the event.

"When it's the governor, you just make it happen," she said.

The state is already reviewing nearly $17,000 in per diem payments to Palin for more than 300 nights she slept at her own home, 40 miles from her satellite office in Anchorage.

Tony Knowles, a Democratic former governor of Alaska who lost to Palin in a 2006 bid to reclaim the job, said he never charged the state for his three children's commercial flights or claimed their travel as official state business.

Knowles, who was governor from 1994 to 2002, is the only other recent Alaska governor who had school-age children while in office.

"There was no valid reason for the children to be along on state business," said Knowles, a supporter of Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. "I cannot recall any instance during my eight years as governor where it would have been appropriate to claim they performed state business."

Knowles said he brought his children to one NGA event while in office but didn't charge the state for their trip.

In February 2007, the three girls flew from Juneau to Anchorage on Alaska Airlines. Palin charged the state for the $519.30 round-trip ticket for each girl, and noted on the expense form that the daughters accompanied her to "open the start of the Iron Dog race."

The children and their mother then watched as Todd Palin and other racers started the competition, which Todd won that year. Palin later had the relevant expense forms changed to describe the girls' business as "First Family official starter for the start of the Iron Dog race."

The Palins began charging the state for commercial flights after the governor kept a 2006 campaign promise to sell a jet bought by her predecessor.

Palin put the jet up for sale on eBay, a move she later trumpeted in her star-making speech at the Republican National Convention, and it was ultimately sold by the state at a loss.

That left only one high-performance aircraft deemed safe enough for her to use — a 1980 twin-engine King Air assigned to the public safety agency but, according to flight logs, out of service for maintenance and repairs about a third of the time Palin has been governor.

[blue]

Still cheaper then the jet was costing us, even after brokering it off at a loss.

Tony Knowls did use states funds to fly his wife and children back and forth from Anchorage to Juneau.

[Twisterdog]

[COLOR="Blue"][B]"When it's the governor, you just make it happen," she said.

The state is already reviewing nearly $17,000 in per diem payments to Palin for more than 300 nights she slept at her own home, 40 miles from her satellite office in Anchorage.


Lovely. Fine example of ethics there.

[Puckstop31]

BO's house?

6 figures to BO from Fannie Mae?

And on.... And on.....And on....


They are ALL scumbags. You want REAL change? Vote for ANYBODY other than McCain or Obama.

[lizbud]

Lovely. Fine example of ethics there.



Yeah, All you Republican's, keep sending in that money. Palin needs more
clothes. $ 150,000 worth, so far.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14805.html

[RICHARD]

Yeah, All you Republican's, keep sending in that money. Palin needs more
clothes. $ 150,000 worth, so far.



I didn't contribute so I really have no say about it.


The GOP is run by all the rich people, they can worry about it.:eek::o;)

I wonder if they dudded her up in the undie department?
----------

No one had a problem with Madame Pelosi jetting across the country on their dime!:o

[Edwina's Secretary]

Over $4,000 for hair and makeup! Guess there was a little bit of lipstick involved after all! :D:D:D

[Grace]

$150,000 is more than her annual salary as Governor. And the stores are hardly the type that a Mrs. Joe SixPack would shop in.

I did read that the clothes would be donated to charity after the election. Otherwise they would be illegal.

[lizbud]

.

I did read that the clothes would be donated to charity after the election. Otherwise they would be illegal.


That's never stopped her before.:rolleyes: Or was that JUST a problem
of ethics?;)

[Karen]

No one had a problem with Madame Pelosi jetting across the country on their dime!:o

Sure they did, I remember media stories grousing about that ...

People will complain about anything, given the chance.

[RICHARD]

Sure they did, I remember media stories grousing about that ...

People will complain about anything, given the chance.


I know, I was being obstinant.

I think that the clothes, if they are auctioned off for charity, would be a good
thing. IT's funny how that part of the story was kinda left out of the reports.

[DJFyrewolf36]

A state official misusing funds?

Not in this country, never in a million years :rolleyes: :D

[Grace]

No one had a problem with Madame Pelosi jetting across the country on their dime!:o

Karen's right, Richard. They did complain, long and loud about that. And remember Clinton's haircut - or maybe you're too young for that :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

And don't forget Edward's haircuts that raised such a fuss!

[RICHARD]

Karen's right, Richard. They did complain, long and loud about that. And remember Clinton's haircut - or maybe you're too young for that :)

I complained about the way NP rolls too!

Let me put it to you this way, I am old enough to remember the 800 dollar toilet seats and hammers. Who is this Clinton you mentioned?

LOL, he held up traffic on the LAX runway for pete's sake! That was brash!:cool:

--------------

I had to laugh about a clip I saw from that hen-fest, The View.


Who is the big mouth that sits to left of center? Joy?

She makes me giggle, she is so absent of thought!

She said something like "SP is dressing with taxpayer money!"

LOL, the RNC got her the clothes and I thought that most of the cash comes from donations? If I have enough cash around to donate it, it's not mine anymore.

This is probably the same bimbo that watches those red carpet actresses dress up in thousands of dollars worth of clothes and jewelry and wets her self over how beautiful they are.

In the end it don't make a whit of difference who or what SP wears, She's already the unqualified animal killer and ethics ignoring woman candidate...so why is everyone getting all tweaked out about it?

People jumped all over me about commenting about BO's flag pin, now everyone has the sandpaper thong going about SP's clothes?

Someone made the comment that I was being juvenile by making light of a pin.

I admit it. I guess it doesn't count when women howl about other women's clothing?:confused:

[caseysmom]

The "hen fest"....how does Richard get away with this...is he like the crazy uncle we just ignore?

[Puckstop31]

The "hen fest"....how does Richard get away with this...is he like the crazy uncle we just ignore?

LOL

The same reason ES, Liz et all "get away" with their 'passive agressive' stuff.

Can you deny that the "view" is NOT a "hen fest"? It ain't sterotyping if it is truth. Why is the truth so "taboo" these days? Why is everybody so easily offended?

[caseysmom]

I have never seen the view its on when I am working I guess. One has to wonder why Richard is watching the "hen fest" :p

[blue]

Didnt Obama spend $500k in donations redoing his campaign jet? $150k in cloths that are gonna be donated or auctioned off seems less sticky.

[RICHARD]

I had to laugh about a clip I saw from that hen-fest, The View.




The clip was on a newscast leading up to the story about why the media is so harsh about SP and the way she rolls.


Again, I do invite you to ignore my posts......It's easy and I go away at the click of a button! I really don't add anything to any conversation, altho it is much better than picking the threads off my clothes while I sit in the corner and drool.

Thanks!

[caseysmom]

So you say...I thinks its Tivo'd right after "as the world turns"!

[RICHARD]

So you say...I thinks its Tivo'd right after "as the world turns"!

LOL, Tivo?

I don't even own a cell phone, so why would I waste money on that kind of stupidity?

Please put me on your ignore list.

Banality makes me laugh.

[caseysmom]

I would never dream of taking your laughter away...seems you need some lately.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Poor, poor little Ms. Palin...who has never said a nasty word about ANYONE!!!! Why would people pick on her??? So sweet and so gentle.

Again...as you sow, so shall you reap!

[sparks19]

So you say...I thinks its Tivo'd right after "as the world turns"!

BOOOOO as the world turns

Personally I'm addicted to the young and the restless... anything else just doesn't compare lol :D

[caseysmom]

I worked a swing shift for years and I got into All my children...never got into young and the restless or as the world turns.:D

[DJFyrewolf36]

LOL, Tivo?

I don't even own a cell phone, so why would I waste money on that kind of stupidity?

Please put me on your ignore list.

Banality makes me laugh.

Don't worry RICHARD, I waste enough cellphone network bandwidth to more than make up for your lack of one :D

Completely off topic but someone needed to insert more humor here ;)

[RICHARD]

Don't worry RICHARD, I waste enough cellphone network bandwidth to more than make up for your lack of one :D

Completely off topic but someone needed to insert more humor here ;)

Wanna go make some church signs with me?

[blue]

Lovely. Fine example of ethics there.

Now what about the per diem the fine congressmen and senator that reside in Juneau get? Im sure that was mentioned.

Im sure it was also mentioned that she eliminated the govenors driver and personal chef from her perks as Gov.

[lizbud]

Didnt Obama spend $500k in donations redoing his campaign jet? $150k in cloths that are gonna be donated or auctioned off seems less sticky.

The RNC spokesman said that the clothes bought for the convention
would be donated to charity, didn't say the ones bought afterwards on
the NY trip would be. Shopping in NY is where they dropped the big bucks.

[pomtzu]

I'll certainly be glad when this election is over and Sarah can go back to Alaska - I'm sick of hearing about her and everything concerned with her. I'm certainly not defending her, but was she supposed to get her wardrobe from Walmart? At least she's not keeping most of it. Can John Edwards donate his $200 haircuts to charity??? :rolleyes:

[lizbud]

I'll certainly be glad when this election is over and Sarah can go back to Alaska - I'm sick of hearing about her and everything concerned with her. I'm certainly not defending her, but was she supposed to get her wardrobe from Walmart? At least she's not keeping most of it. Can John Edwards donate his $200 haircuts to charity??? :rolleyes:


All the flap over Palin's new duds if really funny since she was to be the
"real hockey mom" from the sticks who was a real "outsider" & champion of
everyday people. How many people do you know who can afford that much
money for clothes?

[sparks19]

yes... how DARE real people have nice clothes. How DARE she be a real hockey mom and be well off. REAL people don't have money... and if you are "rich" you must not deserve it.

:rolleyes:

Like they would let her out to campaign in her camo gear or sweat pants. Then we would be complaining that she doesn't care enough to look presentable.

[pomtzu]

Hmmmm...I wonder????.....
Since party donations are being used for wardrobes - (good thing too since Sarah's husband wouldn't give a great impression in a snowmobile suit) - I wonder if Mrs. Plastic Barbie Doll (Cindy McCain) is taking advantage of the clothing deal? Probably is, since with 6 (or is it 7 - I lost count) houses to pay for, there can't be much money in that clothing budget!!!
Am I being a bit sarcastic today?? - you bet!!! :D

[Grace]

yes... how DARE real people have nice clothes. How DARE she be a real hockey mom and be well off. REAL people don't have money... and if you are "rich" you must not deserve it.

:rolleyes:

Like they would let her out to campaign in her camo gear or sweat pants. Then we would be complaining that she doesn't care enough to look presentable.

Oh for Heaven's sake, anyone can look presentable without spending that much money. I do it all the time - and I don't shop at Neiman-Marcus. Lands' End and LLBean are 2 of my favorite places. And I don't wear camo gear or sweat pants - at least not when I'm out in public. The pictures of her when she was only being Governor show she dressed quite nicely - and I'll bet those clothes didn't cost more than a year's salary.

[sparks19]

Oh for Heaven's sake, anyone can look presentable without spending that much money. I do it all the time - and I don't shop at Neiman-Marcus. Lands' End and LLBean are 2 of my favorite places. And I don't wear camo gear or sweat pants - at least not when I'm out in public. The pictures of her when she was only being Governor show she dressed quite nicely - and I'll bet those clothes didn't cost more than a year's salary.

So she is wearing designer labels right now. Big deal.

I just don't get all the uproar about it.

If someone was shoving money at me and saying "Go nuts... buy the best clothes you can find" you bet your sweet patooty that I would take them up on it lol.

[Grace]

So she is wearing designer labels right now. Big deal.

I just don't get all the uproar about it.

If someone was shoving money at me and saying "Go nuts... buy the best clothes you can find" you bet your sweet patooty that I would take them up on it lol.

But she didn't have the time to go shopping herself. She had a Personal Shopper - a man named Jeff Larson. The very same man behind the robocalls made in South Carolina in 2000; the calls implying that McCain had fathered an illegitimate black baby. Politics does make strange bed fellows . . . . . .

[lizbud]

yes... how DARE real people have nice clothes. How DARE she be a real hockey mom and be well off. REAL people don't have money... and if you are "rich" you must not deserve it.

:rolleyes:




Oh Pleeeze :) She is a state.Governor. I'm sure she has plenty of business
and formal clothes to wear in public. I'm sure Palin happily accepted the gifts,
just like you said you would. Doesn't it sound like the Republicans thought she
didn't look good enough in her own things?

IMO, they clothed her to distract folks from listening to whatever came
out of her mouth.:D (my bad):D

[sparks19]

Does any celebrity shop for themselves? They have personal shoppers, personal chefs, personal assistants (which are apparently different from personal shoppers and personal chefs) and for some reason people think celebrities are fantastic.

If I could afford to have someone shop for me I would. I hate clothes shopping (mostly because I can't find anything that fits or that I like lol... but that's a different can of worms :p )

[sparks19]

Oh Pleeeze :) She is a state.Governor. I'm sure she has plenty of business
and formal clothes to wear in public. I'm sure Palin happily accepted the gifts,
just like you said you would. Doesn't it sound like the Republicans thought she
didn't look good enough in her own things?

IMO, they clothed her to distract folks from listening to whatever came
out of her mouth.:D (my bad):D

Well apparently it worked because it seems to be causing a lot of uproar lol. so who is the fool? the people who try to distract using shiny things or the people who ARE distracted by the shiny things?

[pomtzu]

IMO, they clothed her to distract folks from listening to whatever came
out of her mouth.:D (my bad):D

Good one!!!

When I was working and had to dress the part every day, I bought most of my clothes at J C Penney. For instance, I could get a nice, professional looking suit for under $100, etc. Not a thing wrong with looking good at a reasonable price!

[Grace]

Does any celebrity shop for themselves? They have personal shoppers, personal chefs, personal assistants (which are apparently different from personal shoppers and personal chefs) and for some reason people think celebrities are fantastic.


Oh dear - now you're saying she is a celebrity? Isn't that an accusation used against Obama by McCain - in a very sarcastic way - awhile back. Comparing him to Paris Hilton. Now it seems he has his own celebrity ;)


I wonder if Cindy McCain is taking advantage of the clothing deal?

She doesn't need to. She has her own money, lots of it, that she can spend anyway she wishes. She does lots of good charitable work, all the while wearing simple slacks and tops; so if she wants to dress up - let her. As I said, it is her money.

The RNC paid for the Governor's clothes, and contributors are a bit uneasy about it.

[pomtzu]

She doesn't need to. She has her own money, lots of it, that she can spend anyway she wishes. She does lots of good charitable work, all the while wearing simple slacks and tops; so if she wants to dress up - let her. As I said, it is her money.



You missed the end - I said I was being sarcastic! :rolleyes:

[Grace]

You missed the end - I said I was being sarcastic! :rolleyes:

Yes, you did. I'm sorry. Begging your forgiveness?

[lizbud]

There is a very good charity that will gladly accept the clothes. It's
The Alaska Salvation Army.:)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-palin-wardrobe-salvation-army,0,1990771.story

[sparks19]

Oh dear - now you're saying she is a celebrity? Isn't that an accusation used against Obama by McCain - in a very sarcastic way - awhile back. Comparing him to Paris Hilton. Now it seems he has his own celebrity ;)



.

Uh.. yeah. She is a celebrity. the definition of a celebrity is a famous or well known person. Sarah Palin, John McCain, Barack Obama, Joe Biden... are famous and well known... They are CELEBRITIES. Whether they like it or not they ARE celebrities.

Now... that's not to say that ALL celebrities are like Paris Hilton (although she seems to have grown up as of late but there is no telling with her). Some celebrities are good, down to earth people... some are spoiled, high and mighty pompous boneheads.

ETA: I wonder if it would be better to donate and just sell the clothes in the store... or for them to sell them like they did the scarf and pin and collect the money and put it towards the shelter and the meals on wheels. I think selling the clothes and putting the money towards other things would do more than just selling the articles of clothing in the store. Imagine the money that they could raise.

[Edwina's Secretary]

This is simply too, too delicious! Is there a Neiman Marcus on Main Street in Wasilla?

I am thinking I could buy some fine clothes for $50,000 or even $10,000 for that matter!

And exactly HOW will they auction off ...donate...the story changes...the THOUSANDS of dollars spent on her hair and makeup???

BTW...at the hairdresser's I read Cindy's attire for the convention cost about $250,000.

Just a simple woman from the heartlands! Heck, Golly, Gosh...

I don't care if they wrap her in ermine or drench her in diamonds. It's not my money. And she remains a mean-spirited, not too bright politician tuned into WIIFM. With lipstick expertly applied.

What I enjoy is watching her apologists dance....everybody likes nice clothes! the clothes will be donated later! John Edwards had an expensive haircut too!

Please....keep the spin coming. It is so entertaining!

[Alysser]

I'll certainly be glad when this election is over and Sarah can go back to Alaska - I'm sick of hearing about her and everything concerned with her. I'm certainly not defending her, but was she supposed to get her wardrobe from Walmart? At least she's not keeping most of it. Can John Edwards donate his $200 haircuts to charity??? :rolleyes:

Hehe, this post gave me a good laugh. But in all seriousness I agree with the first statement. I wouldn't really mind McCain in office is we didn't have to worry about HER becoming president.

[Edwina's Secretary]

A fun article on the subject! http://www.slate.com/id/2202877

[sparks19]

all I see is a bunch of people complaining because she has extravagant things.

Call it "apologists dancing" if you wish lol but I just CAN'T see being THAT bitter and petty because someone is buying nice clothing lol.

WHY do you care? Seriously?

Do you judge people who walk down the street because they might have something BRAND NAME.

I certainly don't go out and blow the bank on clothing and shoes. But if I had the opportunity to buy a really great outfit I may just go for it. I am FAR from materialistic... probably the farthest thing you could get from it. I am a bargain shopper (when I do shop... which I don't like to do.. unless it's for baby clothes. Than you need to keep me on a short leash or I will break the bank). but I'm not going to judge someone else because they shop at neiman Marcus.

How petty and childish.

I mean... hate on her for her policies. That makes sense. but to nitpik her clothing and hair and makeup because it was expensive? That is just LOOKING for a reason to complain.

I personally don't know how much John Edwards spends on his hair cut, I personally don't know how much bill Clinton spent on cigars, I don't know how much anyone spends on their hair, make up and clothes... know why? Because IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. Who gives a rats patoot lol. They have the money... so spend it. I don't begrudge them because they have the money to do so.

[blue]

Its class warfare. Get the have nots to hate the haves, and its NObama '08.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I think it speaks to her character. We are not talking about a $850.00 suit...we are not talking about a once in a lifetime splurge on an outfit.

She claims to be Ms. Main Street Small Town America and spends $150,000 on clothes and what $4,000 on makeup and hair.

And she didn't blow her bank. She did it with the money contributed by loyal Republicans! OPM...Other People's Money!

Please..give me some more excuses! Call me more names. This is too, too fun!

[caseysmom]

ES...you always get accused of passive aggressiveness...wth what is the white characters that one can hardly read? I am not sure what passive aggressiveness is but if I had to guess it would be that!

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES...you always get accused of passive aggressiveness...wth what is the white characters that one can hardly read? I am not sure what passive aggressiveness is but if I had to guess it would be that!

I can't figure out the passive-aggressive thing either. I guess it is preferable to be aggressive-aggressive? You know...passive-passive is so old-fashion...and aggressive-passive..well...what can I say???

But I don't know what the white characters are? Perhaps I am being censored? Gosh darn Patriot Act!

[Edwina's Secretary]

. I am a bargain shopper (when I do shop... which I don't like to do.. unless it's for baby clothes. Than you need to keep me on a short leash or I will break the bank).


The outfit the RNC bought for her baby to wear on stage cost $100 -- for a onesie and hat.

Is that a bargain?

[caseysmom]

Maybe we should start saying you are aggressive challenged:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Maybe we should start saying you are aggressive challenged:D

I like that one! What do we call someone who has the...shall we say...opposite problem?:D:D:D

[JenBKR]

The 'psychology student' (or former student anyway) in me just had to respond to the question of passive aggressiveness...


Behaviors that help identify passive-aggressive behavior:

Ambiguity
Avoiding responsibility by claiming forgetfulness
Blaming others
Chronic lateness and forgetfulness
Complaining
Does not express hostility or anger openly (e.g., expresses it instead by leaving notes)
Fear of authority
Fear of competition
Fear of dependency
Fear of intimacy (infidelity as a means to act out anger): The passive aggressive often can't trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone.
Fosters chaos
Intentional inefficiency
Making excuses
Losing things
Lying
Obstructionism
Procrastination
Resentment
Resists suggestions from others
Sarcasm
Stubbornness
Sullenness
Willful withholding of understanding

A passive-aggressive person may not have all of these behaviors, and may have other non-passive-aggressive traits.

[sparks19]

excuses?

LOL no excuses.

I just don't dislike people for what they have or what they wear. I may dislike someone for their actions... but not the action of buy a suit that I couldn't afford.

there are lots of things to like or dislike about a person. choosing to get your panties in a twist over how much one spends on clothing... I just don't understand it. just seems... nitpiky and petty to me.

yeah... it came from donations to the RNC... but I find it foolish to donate to any campaign anyway because I find the uses for that money to be useless... like all of those LAME commercials that everyone is SO sick of. Staffing all those people to call and harass you at home to ask you for your support. I think these are all pretty sad uses for the donations. so does it really come as a shock that campaigns are putting money into makeup and hair (OH yes... even the men wear the make up and have the hair done... even though they may deny it lol)


and I just don't understand the logic that if you have the opportunity handed to you to shop at a world famous store and buy clothes that you haven't been able to purchase before then you MUST NOT be a REAL person.

I think this thread just proves exactly why they expect the candidates to dress to the nines... Image is everything so you BETTER look your VERY VERY best. YOu can say or do whatever you like but if someone doesn't like the way you look then you are on the chopping block :)

BTW... I like dancing :)

[blue]

She did it with the money contributed by loyal Republicans! OPM...Other People's Money!

Please..give me some more excuses! Call me more names. This is too, too fun!

She did it at the behest of her running mate, their campaign managers, and the handlers.

[sparks19]

The outfit the RNC bought for her baby to wear on stage cost $100 -- for a onesie and hat.

Is that a bargain?

lmfao... What? This is kind of stretching to make a point don't you think?

I didn't buy it for her. I'm not her personal shopper

Sorry I can only take responsiblity for the things I buy. I don't judge others for the things THEY buy. So not sure why what I buy should dictate what others buy. If you read what I said... I said I am a bargain shopper. not that I am HER personal bargain shopper or anyone else's or that I expect anyone else to shop the way I do lol.

$100 for a onesie and hat... I've seen more expensive for less.

but for me? No it's not a bargain. I like the 2 for $5 onesies or the outlet shopping :) but that's just ME. but I suppose I should hold everyone ELSE to the same shopping standards that I have lol How DARE they spend more than I do.

[Lady's Human]

You all REALLY remind me of the little old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night.

Pathetic when you lambaste a candidate for what they wear, and not one word on any issues.

[sparks19]

You all REALLY remind me of the little old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night.

Pathetic when you lambaste a candidate for what they wear, and not one word on any issues.

UH OH... those darn French Canadians... they are trouble :)

No offense to any british women... but I think elderly french Canadian women can only be topped by elderly British women. My grandmother... love her to bits but the first thing she says when someone walks into a room is "Lovely to see you dear... You look like you are putting on weight" THANKS Grandma lol

[Edwina's Secretary]

You all REALLY remind me of the little old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night.

Pathetic when you lambaste a candidate for what they wear, and not one word on any issues.

Then you haven't been reading carefully LH! I did lambaste her for her position on issues. And this has nothing to do with what she wears.

Dern it all...there you go misunderstandin' womin folk agin!

Gosh darn, I have a closet full of designer clothes (Of course I paid for them...not my husband...not a party.) This is about...

HYPOCRISY. You know...saying one thing and doing another. You might say...her character...or lack of it!

[kitten645]

:eek:http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/missmeow645/sp.jpg

[Edwina's Secretary]

:eek:http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/missmeow645/sp.jpg

Obviously before someone else was paying for her clothes!

[sparks19]

:eek:http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/missmeow645/sp.jpg

LMFAO....

I'd comment but... I can't say that I look much better when I spend the week in my jammies lol

SEEEEEEEE... Maybe she was a charity case like "what not to wear" :) No one believed me when I said that she better not show up in her camo gear or sweat pants to campaign. Or that.

Although I want to know what's on her legs... are they pants or boots? they look warm :)

[Lady's Human]

This entire thread (with the exception of the OP) is about nothing more than superficial crap that has nothing to do with whether GOv. Palin can do the job.

I stand by my comment. You really are a bunch of biddies at the bingo hall.

[blue]

Thats traditional dress for a group of Alaskan Natives, probably donated to her from one of the remote villages.


Although I want to know what's on her legs... are they pants or boots? they look warm :)

Looks like a tall pair of Mukluks.

http://z.about.com/d/shoes/1/0/0/q/mukluks.jpg

[jennielynn1970]

there are lots of things to like or dislike about a person. choosing to get your panties in a twist over how much one spends on clothing... I just don't understand it. just seems... nitpiky and petty to me.
I wouldn't care, but it wasn't her money. I can understand if she wanted to get a new wardrobe because she's getting a "new position".. you dress for the part when you change jobs. I get that. She just didn't spend her money for her new position. She spent other people's money.


yeah... it came from donations to the RNC... but I find it foolish to donate to any campaign anyway because I find the uses for that money to be useless...
So, the money that was spent from the donations for her outfits WAS foolish. You agree with that then, correct?



and I just don't understand the logic that if you have the opportunity handed to you to shop at a world famous store and buy clothes that you haven't been able to purchase before then you MUST NOT be a REAL person.
So, if you have the opportunity to take advantage of people, you should? Is that what you're saying? That if you are handed money and said "Here, we know you should be paying for this, but hey, they gave us the money, so even though we know ETHICALLY it's wrong, what the hey, do it anyway!"



I think this thread just proves exactly why they expect the candidates to dress to the nines... Image is everything so you BETTER look your VERY VERY best. YOu can say or do whatever you like but if someone doesn't like the way you look then you are on the chopping block :)

Again, you dress for the position you want to be in. Normally, however, people do that with their own funds. Not other people's money.

She wants to be in that position, maybe she should have spent her own money to look that part. I'm sure she can max out some credit cards, right?? ;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

This entire thread (with the exception of the OP) is about nothing more than
superficial crap that has nothing to do with whether GOv. Palin can do the job.

I stand by my comment. You really are a bunch of biddies at the bingo hall.

Here is the funny thing. Many people feel the fuss about Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, and the word "Messiah" to be
superficial crap that has nothing to do with whether Sen Obama can do the job...

where were you?????

That's right...no where to be seen!

[jennielynn1970]

You all REALLY remind me of the little old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night.

Pathetic when you lambaste a candidate for what they wear, and not one word on any issues.

I'm insulted you'd compare me to a French person. Or that I'd play bingo.

I'm not "lambasting" her for what she's wearing, but for how she obtained them.

(who uses the word "lambaste" these days? sounds like you're roasting a sheep! :p You sound like some old, jaded military man, LH.)

[jennielynn1970]

Looks like a tall pair of Mukluks.

http://z.about.com/d/shoes/1/0/0/q/mukluks.jpg

Oh, those look toasty!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

(who uses the word "lambaste" these days? sounds like you're roasting a sheep! :p You sound like some old, jaded military man, LH.)

Once they started allowin' womin folk in the army...well it ' bin all down hill since then!

[Grace]

This entire thread (with the exception of the OP) is about nothing more than superficial crap that has nothing to do with whether GOv. Palin can do the job.

I stand by my comment. You really are a bunch of biddies at the bingo hall.

If it bothers you so much, simply don't read it any longer.

[sparks19]

I wouldn't care, but it wasn't her money. I can understand if she wanted to get a new wardrobe because she's getting a "new position".. you dress for the part when you change jobs. I get that. She just didn't spend her money for her new position. She spent other people's money. ;)

Yeah... Other people's money that they DONATED for the RNC's USE. So when you donate money to a cause do you get to dictate how they use it? Likely not. it goes to whatever they see fit to use it for... kind of like our taxes :)


QUOTE=jenn_librarian;2079914]So, the money that was spent from the donations for her outfits WAS foolish. You agree with that then, correct?[/QUOTE]

I think just about all the bull they WASTE campaign money on is foolish yes... and YES I think spending campaign money on expensive clothes is foolish. However, this thread shows me WHY they feel the need to do that. Had she bought a $30 suit at Walmart people would complain "She can't spend a little extra on an outfit and we are supposed to believe she can be VP when she can't even dress in nice clothes and supports a company like Walmart... the horror" people just look at their appearance ... SAD that material things are what seem to matter most at a time like this.



So, if you have the opportunity to take advantage of people, you should? Is that what you're saying? That if you are handed money and said "Here, we know you should be paying for this, but hey, they gave us the money, so even though we know ETHICALLY it's wrong, what the hey, do it anyway!"

yes jenn... I'm for taking ADVANTAGE of people :rolleyes: seriously... am I new here? ridiculous. I do not believe for a SECOND that people sent in a list of what their donations should be spent on. You donate money... it goes to whatever they feel is nessecary. It may not be what YOU want... but again... apparently style matters over substance or we wouldn't have this debate going on. We look at what they LOOK like rather than WHO they are. kind of sad. but again... I believe taht donating to a campaign is a WASTE of your money. What does it accomplish?



Again, you dress for the position you want to be in. Normally, however, people do that with their own funds. Not other people's money.

She wants to be in that position, maybe she should have spent her own money to look that part. I'm sure she can max out some credit cards, right?? ;)


OOOOOOOH but then she wouldn't be a respsonbile PARENT. spending her family money on a wardrobe the RNC says she needs. She's already on the chopping block for running for VP with *gasp* children. Imagine if she spent all their family money on clothes that they demand she has.

Rock and a hard place. someone is always going to complain.

Yet no one complains about how much they spend on commercials that are POINTLESS and accomplish NOTHING. THAT'S OK right?

LOL we apparently need to agree to disagree here because I just CANNOT get on board with the idea that if she has nice clothes that it means she is a horrible person. DANG her for havin those clothes.

[sparks19]

Oh, those look toasty!!


yeah they do...

I kind of want a pair lol.

I lost one of my sherpa boots somehow... need new winter boots :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

LOL we apparently need to agree to disagree here because I just CANNOT get on board with the idea that if she has nice clothes that it means she is a horrible person. DANG her for havin those clothes.

Is this a round dance or a square dance? Or do you just not read what you don't want to read?

Once again...I know what she is...a mean-spirited, not too educated or learned woman who has drunk for many, many years from the public trough she claims to disdain. In other words...a dull hypocrite.

I don't care what she wears....(for the third or fourth time...)

[blue]

Anybody know what the DNC spent on Biden's wardrobe?

Bob Barr '08

[Edwina's Secretary]

She's already on the chopping block for running for VP with *gasp* children.

I realize you might not know this....not being an American and all...

But she is not the first woman to run for vp...nor the first woman to run for vp who also had children.

That would have been Geraldine Ferrero. In 1984. She has three children.

Her selection gave her running mate - Walter Mondale - a bump in the polls. It did not last until the election.

[blue]

That would have been Geraldine Ferrero. In 1984. She has three children.

Do you know what the ages of her children where in 1984?

EDIT: I found it. In 1984 her children where 18, 22, and 24. Not a fair comparison of the 2 canidates.

[Lady's Human]

ES, I haven't commented on Ayers or the "reverend" Wright because I share the concerns of those who brought it up as an issue. Sen. Obama has chosen to associate with a terrorist and a bigot, which shows serious flaws in judgement.

I also have doubts about the judgement of Sen. McCain and his choice of running mate, but it doesn't have a damned thing to do with what she's wearing.

Frankly, if I could pull the lever for "none of the above", I would.

[jennielynn1970]

yes jenn... I'm for taking ADVANTAGE of people :rolleyes:



hehe, it was me being sarcastic and a smart ass...

I kinda like being in an ornery mood. :p

[Lady's Human]

Jenn, I noticed the ornery mood. It's an improvement :p


Grace,


If it bothers you so much, simply don't read it any longer.

I started reading it because the OP brought up something that COULD have been pertinent to the ISSUES, but it quickly veered off course.

My apologies for intruding on your bingo game.

[jennielynn1970]

BTW... I like dancing :)

Can you dance like this??? ;)

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/jenn_librarian/ObamaPalinDWTS.jpg

[blue]

I started reading it because the OP brought up something that COULD have been pertinent to the ISSUES, but it quickly veered off course.

Also issues that keep getting ignored, like keeping the state funded plane being more expensive then taking commercial flights, that state Congresional leaders also take per diem payments in their own districts, the current AK gov driving herself and either her or her husband cooking for her family instead of having a personal driver and chef (perks the previous gov enjoyed), or the former AK gov using state funds for flights for his family.

I believe NObama is using campaign funds to fly to HI to visit his grandmother. Whether he uses the campaign jet or commercial travel it, like Palin's new wardrobe, is a non issue as they are using campaign funds for the trip.

[blue]

Can you dance like this??? ;)

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/jenn_librarian/ObamaPalinDWTS.jpg

Very nice chop, for bringing the funnay.

[jennielynn1970]

October 23, 2008
Look Is the Same; the Labels Have Changed
By ERIC WILSON

When Sarah Palin arrived at the governor’s mansion in Juneau, Alaska, for the first time in December 2006, she wore a pink turtleneck, a preppy track jacket and what appeared to be a knockoff Burberry scarf. She had often campaigned in fleece. Introduced as Senator John McCain’s running mate in Dayton, Ohio, in August, she wore red pumps that cost $89 from Naughty Monkey, a brand whose target audience is teenagers.

As a vice-presidential candidate, Ms. Palin’s look — which has apparently undergone a costly makeover — has not changed dramatically from a “Working Girl” formula of authoritative jackets paired with feminine skirts that seem calculated to suggest that she is ready to go to work on Day 1.

The Republicans spent about $150,000 on a clothing makeover for Ms. Palin and her family, according to financial disclosure forms. But looking at the before-and-after photos, it was not readily apparent what Ms. Palin got, exactly, from her shopping spree at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue.

What the number $150,000 suggests is that Ms. Palin traded up to designer versions of the clothes she wore before stepping onto the national stage, a surprising implication for a candidate who emphasizes her appeal to working-class voters.

“My first reaction when I heard about this was, ‘Honey, I could have dressed you for a lot less than that,’ ” said Cindi Leive, the editor in chief of Glamour magazine, which asked readers on Wednesday to vote in an online poll whether the expenses were too high; 72 percent said they were. “In general, she looks terrific,” Ms. Leive said, “but if you asked me to figure out where the $150,000 went, I’m not sure I could tell you.”

It is not yet clear whether Ms. Palin chose her new wardrobe or worked with stylists and other advisers, or what message her clothes were intended to broadcast. In fact, most of her bracelet sleeve jackets are so generic-looking that they could have come from any of the favored designers of Washington politicians: Oscar de la Renta, Escada and St. John.

The square ivory jacket she wore during her acceptance speech at the Republican Convention was a $2,500 silk shantung Valentino, reportedly bought at Saks. But the black wrap jacket she wore for the vice-presidential debate in St. Louis was a Tahari suit, according to a spokesman for the line, and costs less than $200; her shoes, according to the sleuths at ShoeaholicsAnonymous.com, were red imitation croc pumps from Kate Spade.

To her credit, Ms. Palin has been wearing those suits, and those awkward-yet-efficient, zip-close jackets (nothing says maverick like red leather) repeatedly over the last month, implying a sense of frugality that would belie the credit card statements of the Republican National Committee. To be scrupulously nonpartisan, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., her Democratic counterpart, seems to have a deep wardrobe of ties.

Some fashion executives went so far as to defend Ms. Palin for helping to support the economy.

“There’s no upside to looking frumpy or dowdy,” said Simon Doonan, the creative director of Barneys New York, where the campaign reported spending only $789.72, or enough for almost one outfit.

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES, I haven't commented on Ayers or the "reverend" Wright because I share the concerns of those who brought it up as an issue. Sen. Obama has chosen to associate with a terrorist and a bigot, which shows serious flaws in judgement.

I also have doubts about the judgement of Sen. McCain and his choice of running mate, but it doesn't have a damned thing to do with what she's wearing.

Frankly, if I could pull the lever for "none of the above", I would.

What about the judgement of Gov Palin...in accepting all that loot? That is what this thread is about. Sorry the humor and fun we were having with it confused you.

[lizbud]

Check out the "new and improved" Sarah Palin. Fancy duds for a plain old
hockey mom. Can you say, "all style & no substance". :)

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/popup?id=6088889

[Edwina's Secretary]

I started reading it because the OP brought up something that COULD have been pertinent to the ISSUES, but it quickly veered off course.

My apologies for intruding on your bingo game.

LH...I think I see the problem here. Men and Women communicate differently. And you seem to filter women's conversation through your very male/military paradigm. So rather than being insulted by your demeaning expression of how women talk...I'll suggest some reading for you to help you understand.

Deborah Tannen Phd is considered the pioneer in the study of the differences in communication styles between men and woman. She has written some excellent books on the subject. Available on Barnes and Noble as well as many other book sellers.

Another expert in the area is Anthony J. Ipsaro, Phd. He approaches the subject from the viewpoint of a white male. He uses Tannen's works and created a phd program in Men's Studies (as he says...Why only Women's Studies??) You can find some of his work on the internet.

I hired him a couple times for workplace training programs. What was interesting was men -- who thought they understood women because they have a mother, a wife, daughters, whatever -- were the most impacted by the program. I remember after the first session going out for drinks with a group and the choruses of "I never knew!" "Oh my gosh!" etc. etc.

So instead of calling us "hens" and "bingo playing old ladies" and other attempts at disparagement...maybe learn about how we communicate? Edit...I left out old biddies

[sparks19]

Is this a round dance or a square dance? Or do you just not read what you don't want to read?

Once again...I know what she is...a mean-spirited, not too educated or learned woman who has drunk for many, many years from the public trough she claims to disdain. In other words...a dull hypocrite.

I don't care what she wears....(for the third or fourth time...)


Do you teach dance lessons?

[sparks19]

Can you dance like this??? ;)

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/jenn_librarian/ObamaPalinDWTS.jpg

yeah right... maybe at night in my dreams I could dance like that lol.

I couldn't even wear the outfit and fake it lol.

LOL BTW... Obama can't dance like that either. I saw him try on Ellen :p then his wife came on and shamed him lol.

[Lady's Human]

ES, if you're going to put this in terms of men not knowing how women communicate, then why don't women learn to communicate with men (after all, you speak as if it's a disability, and in this society those who don't have the disability need to accomodate those who have it) rather than vice versa?

Funny, I have no trouble communicating with women on the job, or normally in any other interactions. Only HERE do I seem to have those problems. Notice I used a very, very specific reference for comparison. It's not a general reference at all.

It's not a communications issue, it's a couple of people who feel the need to disparage those who disagree with them, so they can continue to do their "superiority dance" blind to everything else around them.

[Edwina's Secretary]

ES, if you're going to put this in terms of men not knowing how women communicate, then why don't women learn to communicate with men (after all, you speak as if it's a disability, and in this society those who don't have the disability need to accomodate those who have it) rather than vice versa?

Funny, I have no trouble communicating with women on the job, or normally in any other interactions. Only HERE do I seem to have those problems. Notice I used a very, very specific reference for comparison. It's not a general reference at all.

It's not a communications issue, it's a couple of people who feel the need to disparage those who disagree with them, so they can continue to do their "superiority dance" blind to everything else around them.

LH...I certainly don't want you to learn anything new if you don't want to!

However...I would like you to go back to my post. I said men and women communicate differently. Disability? No. How women talk and men talk is different and things can get confused or misunderstood because of it.

For example...in this thread I cannot find where anyone criticized WHAT Ms. Palin wears...what was criticized and made fun of was the amount of money that was spent, the hypocrisy, and where the money came from.

You called it a hen party and a bunch of old ladies playing bingo. I am guessing those are not compliments?

You don't think what was being discussed are legitimate topics. I think they go to the question of character. Obviously some others do as well.

So instead of offering a specific reason why these are not legitimate concerns you...
disparage those who disagree with you, so you can continue to do your "superiority dance"

[lizbud]

However...I would like you to go back to my post. I said men and women communicate differently. Disability? No. How women talk and men talk is different and things can get confused or misunderstood because of it.



Well said. Now this is about the most dispassionate, legitimate, explanation
of communication styles as you will ever find. The fact that men & women
use different ways of speaking/writing than men, is just a proven fact.

It's only a disability if you make it one.:)

[K9soul]

I suspect it's more differing political views than a gender issue. There are plenty of left wing men out there, just not on this board, so somehow conflicts here end up a men versus women situation. I'm sure the guys here would be horrified at the blog entries of one of my favorite authors who is very outspoken in his political views :p. http://grrm.livejournal.com/

Plus, I think internet/text communication is quite different than in work or face-to-face interactions of daily life.

[lizbud]

Plus, I think internet/text communication is quite different than in work or face-to-face interactions of daily life.


Very true, but it can come down to a communication problem. For instance,
a man & women can have the same political views, but communicate their
thoughts in different ways.(styles)

[Karen]

I am surprised, quite, that you think LH cannot communicate with women. As the youngest of the family, he had a strong-willed mother and two older sisters - as well as an older brother, but the age spread is such that he was in college by the time LH hit kindergarten.

He was raised to communicate well with, and respect women.

Now, by the way I believe it was Richard, not LH who used the term "hen fest." I have never thought of "hen party" as a derogatory term, frankly, just a descriptive one of what often happens in a gathering of women - we talk, we chatter, the more of us, the more noise we make! Hen=female. Not that men don't gab, but their voices tend to be lower pitched, so it's a lower rumble of noise. A gab fest is a gab fest, but a hen fest is all girls.

[K9soul]

For instance,
a man & women can have the same political views, but communicate their
thoughts in different ways.(styles)

I agree with that, and that there are differences in the way men and women communicate. It can take work and learning on the part of both to better understand each other. But sometimes I think it's just a general personality clash more than anything to do with gender.

ETA: I personally wouldn't care for being referred to as part of a 'hen-fest' unless it was meant teasingly. Said seriously, it does seem somewhat condescending to me.

[sparks19]

I am surprised, quite, that you think LH cannot communicate with women. As the youngest of the family, he had a strong-willed mother and two older sisters - as well as an older brother, but the age spread is such that he was in college by the time LH hit kindergarten.

He was raised to communicate well with, and respect women.

Now, by the way I believe it was Richard, not LH who used the term "hen fest." I have never thought of "hen party" as a derogatory term, frankly, just a descriptive one of what often happens in a gathering of women - we talk, we chatter, the more of us, the more noise we make! Hen=female. Not that men don't gab, but their voices tend to be lower pitched, so it's a lower rumble of noise. A gab fest is a gab fest, but a hen fest is all girls.


They don't gab if there is a ball game on TV lol.

I find men are experts at communicating for an afternoon where not one word is uttered except "anyone want another beer while I'm up"

Like when we have a family gathering and all the cousins end up in the living room watching football. The ladies are in the dining room (usually indulging in the desserts lol) talking it up... and the living room is completely silent unless someone scores lol.

and when a group of women get together there is usually more than one conversation going on.. the talking gets loud, it gets fast and it gets high pitched and it SOUNDS like a hen house :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

He was raised to communicate well with, and respect women.

Now, by the way I believe it was Richard, not LH who used the term "hen fest."

A spirited defense of your little brother Karen! And my apologies if I misattributed one of the demeaning insults used against women.

He did use "Old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night." "Bunch of old biddies at the bingo hall."

I have to tell you...my strong-willed mother would have washed out my brother's mouth with soap if he had been so insulting to women!

[K9soul]

and when a group of women get together there is usually more than one conversation going on.. the talking gets loud, it gets fast and it gets high pitched and it SOUNDS like a hen house :)

I guess I'm more an exception to the norm then :p. I tend to become quiet in a large group or else speak lower one-on-one with someone off away from the main group. I hate competing with a lot of noise. In my ex's family gatherings however, the men were just as loud or louder than the women. It was a big family with a noisy bunch, where-as I was raised in a quiet house with just me and my mother. At the big gatherings, I always retreated to a quieter room after a couple hours to get a break!

[Edwina's Secretary]

If you read Deborah Tannen's book one of the things she talks about...when women talk to each other they nod. This is how women (normally) communicate. It is an indication of "I'm listening." If you look at a group of women talking they look like those dogs with the wiggly heads in the back of automobiles.

When men nod it is -- in "men speak" if you will, a sign of agreement.

The breakdown can occur when a woman is non-verbally saying "I am listening" and the man is non-verbally hearing "I agree with you."

And of course, when the man does not nod...women hear "not listening."

It is a very interesting area of study that crosses cultures as well.

And can be useful to understanding each other.

Perhaps this could be a visual that contributed to the term "hen party" all though I have never heard that term used in any "endearing" way!

[Karen]

A spirited defense of your little brother Karen! And my apologies if I misattributed one of the demeaning insults used against women.

He did use "Old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night." "Bunch of old biddies at the bingo hall."

I have to tell you...my strong-willed mother would have washed out my brother's mouth with soap if he had been so insulting to women!

My very strong-willed mother might have uttered either of those phrases.
One can respect women without having to never utter a critical word about anyone belonging to that gender. Heck, he'd be accused of pandering if he did.

Have you ever been to a bingo hall in an old mill town on a Friday night? It is quite an interesting experience - there was always plenty of smoke, at my height of 5' 6" I towered over nearly everyone, and the noise level of gossip and chatter could have fooled a casual observer into thinking the bingo was not taken very seriously! Woe be unto thee who made that mistake!

[Lady's Human]

ES, I wasn't insulting WOMEN in general. It was again, a specific comment on specific comments and behavior, not anyone in general.


When men nod it is -- in "men speak" if you will, a sign of agreement.

Bollocks, to be polite. As with all non-verbal communication, it is situational, and dependent on far more than just gender.

If that's a great revelation in the book, then the book should be in the recycling bin.

[lizbud]

I hate competing with a lot of noise. In my ex's family gatherings however, the men were just as loud or louder than the women. It was a big family with a noisy bunch, where-as I was raised in a quiet house with just me and my mother. I always retreated to a quieter room after a couple hours to get a break!


You would have had a hard time ( or be a different person) if you had grown up in my family. I was raised with four rowdy brothers & only one
sister who was 10 years younger than me.:) You had to speak up and
hold your own, or be lost in the shuffle.:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Gosh darn it LH...there you go bein polite and respectful again.

Let's see...what all are you an expert about....

By golly...the list is just too dang long.

Sorry Karen....but if that silly photo joke of women toting while men didn't was offensive enough to men for you to shut it down....

Can you REALLY say that to say to some that they are like "a bunch of old biddies" is not an insult???

I realize you have to take care of your brother and all but...

[Lady's Human]

Classic, ES.

If you can't debate, denigrate.

Karen doesn't "take care of me" nor do I take care of her.

You may want to take a course in civil debate, emphasis on CIVIL.

[lizbud]

I stand by my comment. You really are a bunch of biddies at the bingo hall.


There is no way to interpret this remark, but as a insulting, sexist, way
to refer to women you don't like or you don't agree with.

[lizbud]

If you can't debate, denigrate.




Exactly LH. Get a grip man.:D

[Lady's Human]

Liz, it's not sexist at all. I've used the same comment to refer to men.

To restate in in simpler terms,

It has nothing to do with gender, it's the behavior.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Classic, ES.

If you can't debate, denigrate.

Karen doesn't "take care of me" nor do I take care of her.

You may want to take a course in civil debate, emphasis on CIVIL.

As you denigate? "Bunch of biddies." Is that a debate tactic?

Or this...
If that's a great revelation in the book, then the book should be in the recycling bin.

Debate? Civil?

I challenge you to find where in this thread ANYONE has complained about WHAT Sarah Palin was wearing. It was about the cost of what she wore and where the money came from to buy the clothes.

You turned it from a discussion into a denigation...of the people who were posting.

Civility? Why don't you demonstate it to me? I've yet to see any from you.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Liz, it's not sexist at all. I've used the same comment to refer to men.

To restate in in simpler terms,

It has nothing to do with gender, it's the behavior.

And next will you tell us when you use this phrase...
Old French Canuck women at bingo on Friday night
to refer to men?

Please.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Liz, it's not sexist at all. I've used the same comment to refer to men.

To restate in in simpler terms,

It has nothing to do with gender, it's the behavior.

And nothing superior in this remark!

[Lady's Human]

When I've used that phrase to refer to men?

Easily.....American Legion meetings, Union meetings, work, ..........

and as Karen can attest, I'm not alone in the use of that phrase to refer to a behavior, regardless of gender.

As to the "expert" comment, I'll leave it alone, as we're not even in the same ballpark in regards to what constitutes an expert.

[sparks19]

I guess I'm more an exception to the norm then :p. I tend to become quiet in a large group or else speak lower one-on-one with someone off away from the main group. I hate competing with a lot of noise. In my ex's family gatherings however, the men were just as loud or louder than the women. It was a big family with a noisy bunch, where-as I was raised in a quiet house with just me and my mother. At the big gatherings, I always retreated to a quieter room after a couple hours to get a break!

LOL there are always exceptions to the rule :)

I am LOUD... I always will be loud lol. My whole family (with the exception of my mother) is LOOOOOOUUUUUUUDDDDDD. lol

So my father also doesn't fit into the category of "quiet if there is a ball game on" the only time he is quiet is when he is asleep lol.

:)

[RICHARD]

From MW dictionary=

Main Entry: fest
Pronunciation: \ˌfest\
Function: noun
Etymology: German, from Fest celebration, from Latin festum — more at feast
Date: 1889
: a gathering, event, or show having a specified focus <a music fest> —often used in combination <a gabfest>

-------------
Yes, I used the term henfest.

You say bollocks, I say huevos!

I saw a program where they were talking about the word misogyny and how man had never come up with a term for women that hate men-

I love to have a good debate with people and have noticed that when given a comment or answer to a post, some people cannot answer or will not answer in a way to promote understanding or civil conversation.

Nope, Just toss out an insult or accuse the post of misogyny or some other politically incorrect crime.

Most of us have a sense of humor when challenged, some of us mope about, our heads thumped and brains scrambled because some one challenged us with a thought that might be challenged-is ya had your wits about you and a little bit of self deprecation.

But no, we are too immoveable and steadfast in our stupor and belief that our opinion is all that matters.

From lipstick on a pig, henfests and French Canuckian women at bingo-
I dated a Chicago/French/Canuck woman and have to tell you she'd gladly admit to being a tough gal, then kick you arse afterwards- it's amazing that women aren't a little tougher and more resistant to a few little words or sayings on a website.

LOL, You pluck and trim, shave places that I'd never let any sharp metal near, tint you hair or take it off with chemicals that kill sealife, you undergo surgeries to expand and shrink body parts, give birth and iron then you feign injury at some old saying that men toss out at you?.


Sorry ladies, you lost me at that one.


Yes, I am laughing at the people that deserve it.:confused:

[RICHARD]

I find men are experts at communicating for an afternoon where not one word is uttered except "anyone want another beer while I'm up"



Please,
You know that is not true. To use a political term, You are out of touch.

We also know-

WHERE'S the remote.
Grab me some chips honey.
RUN!, RUN!, RUN!, &#$*&$
What the eff was that?
What the eff was that all about?
This ref/ump is blind/on the take!
You just had to hit/catch it, stupid!
GO!, GO!, GO!, GO!,GO!, GO!, Yah!!!!!!
and

This one isn't cold.:D

[RICHARD]

If that's a great revelation in the book, then the book should be in the recycling bin.

LOL, you may want to take a look at that sentence, I can see some followers of a certain religion taking that statement as an attack on a certain book,
King James or not!:rolleyes:;):confused:

[sparks19]

Please,
You know that is not true. To use a political term, You are out of touch.

We also know-

WHERE'S the remote.
Grab me some chips honey.
RUN!, RUN!, RUN!, &#$*&$
What the eff was that?
What the eff was that all about?
This ref/ump is blind/on the take!
You just had to hit/catch it, stupid!
GO!, GO!, GO!, GO!,GO!, GO!, Yah!!!!!!
and

This one isn't cold.:D

ah dangit.

I'm a failure lol.

How could I forget all of those. Except Brian doesn't ask me to grab the chips... probably because I have eaten them already lol

I guess I have just been too busy dancing :D But I like to have some fun in life instead of being a grumpus bumpus all the time :( (that's what we call Hannah, our one year old, when she is in a grumpy mood lol)

http://www.freefever.com/animatedgifs/animated/dancing23.gif

[jennielynn1970]

LOL, You pluck and trim, shave places that I'd never let any sharp metal near, tint you hair or take it off with chemicals that kill sealife, you undergo surgeries to expand and shrink body parts, give birth and iron then you feign injury at some old saying that men toss out at you?.


Sorry ladies, you lost me at that one.

Oh please, like men don't primp and trim!! Maybe you don't, but many men I know are worse than the girls.

I had a boyfriend who shaved more of his body than I did. And yeah, he shaved with a hand held razor(not electric) and he got it all! Kinda freaked me out, but I was told that where he grew up, many men shaved their bits. Something about cleanliness and all that, and having hair down there makes it hard to be fully clean.

He actually had me wax his back for him once or twice (hairy arab dude). Actually, that was kinda fun. Really was a tension release for me.. "Ready, one two three... RIPPPPP" :p :D

[sparks19]

Oh please, like men don't primp and trim!! Maybe you don't, but many men I know are worse than the girls.

I had a boyfriend who shaved more of his body than I did. And yeah, he shaved with a hand held razor(not electric) and he got it all! Kinda freaked me out, but I was told that where he grew up, many men shaved their bits. Something about cleanliness and all that, and having hair down there makes it hard to be fully clean.

He actually had me wax his back for him once or twice (hairy arab dude). Actually, that was kinda fun. Really was a tension release for me.. "Ready, one two three... RIPPPPP" :p :D

LMAO... it's not about cleanliness with men... it's because as I have heard.. it makes them appear ummm larger LOL. don't let them fool you. :D

lmao I remember one of my ex's... he was into lifting weights and being big and buff so he asked me to wax his chest. LOL it was hilarious. he started to sweat profusely and there was even a small amount of blood lol and he could barely contain the tears in his eyes.

I only had the wax for my eyebrows. I tried to do my legs on my own once... I only did a half a strip and that was enough for me lol. I heated the rest of the strip and slowly pulled it off and NEVER tried it again :D child birth was easier than waxing my legs lol

[lizbud]

Saw a funny cartoon today on the subject of Palin & clothes.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/cartoon/2008-10/43043782.jpg

[Lady's Human]

And Senator Obama's "rack of qualifications" is filled with what, exactly?

[lizbud]

And Senator Obama's "rack of qualifications" is filled with what, exactly?


AS compared to Sarah Palins????? Don't get me started.:)

[Lady's Human]

Please, as a couple of posters have asked in other threads, WHAT exactly are Sen. Obama's qualifications?

(Real world, academia doesn't count)

[lizbud]

Please, as a couple of posters have asked in other threads, WHAT exactly are Sen. Obama's qualifications?

(Real world, academia doesn't count)


Oh yeah, right. Heaven forbid we elect someone with a brain.:rolleyes:

[Lady's Human]

Academic honors equate to intelligence how? We've had people from both ends of the spectrum as President, I'll take the failed suit salesman from Missouri over the Fulbright scholar any day.

Gen. George S Patton, Jr. almost flunked out of West Point. Funny, I think he went on to have an above average career.

Labor Relations lawyers who work for the postal service routinely lose to Union officers in arbitration....and the union officers are frequently only part time arbitration advocates with no degree in law.

Educational achievements do not equal real world skill. Again, in REAL WORLD terms, what has Senator Obama achieved?

[RICHARD]

Educational achievements do not equal real world skill. Again, in REAL WORLD terms, what has Senator Obama achieved?

I do have a short list.

1.


THat's all I got.:confused:

[Edwina's Secretary]

What ARE the qualifications for president?

And what are McCain's qualifications? Prisoner of War? Senator? Rich guy?

Let's see...Bush was a failed businessman and a failed baseball team owner. And governor. And he has been a failure as a president. According to about 70% of the US population.

Abraham Lincoln? Not very "qualified."

George Washington? Thomas Jefferson? Harry Truman?

There is no training ground for being president.

[Lady's Human]

Agreed, but there are many, many people carping about the qualifications of Gov. Palin, hence the question.

If you're going to say one is unqualified, then please prove that the other IS qualified.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Okay...he knows where Russia is.

[Puckstop31]

LH... He is 'qualified' because he is the Democrat!!! Duh!! :)


Ladies, i'll concede that Mrs. Palin is less than 'qualified' to be POTUS.
So, how about you stop dodging the question and tell us why you think Obama IS? I cannot recall anybody here actually talking about, specifically, what they like about Obama's policies. I would especially like to hear what you think about his economic policies.

We all need to stop hating on the "other" guy. Rather we should talk about why "OUR" guy is better. Stop letting "party" or "left/right" divide us. That's what the parties WANT. They want us fighting each other, and not focusing on THEM.


A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Also, from the same document...


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government....

We should never forget who the TRUE ruling class of this country IS. We should be forever on guard to ensure our governments do not forget that. Personally, I believe they already have.

So, we can continue to bicker on about trvial fluff... We can continue to hate on each other. OR... We can focus on what really matters. Sending the message that we are paying attention. That we are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore.

Please... Vote your conscience on November 4th.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."
-- John Quincy Adams

[Edwina's Secretary]

Say LH...a question came to me last night.

I have noticed RICHARD frequently, repeatedly ranting about and ridiculing Obama's speech pattern.

Everyone has a speech pattern. Presidential speech patterns have kept comedians in business since dirt.

But is it a "qualification" for president? Does it have one dern thing to do with a candidate's ability to govern?

I rank it ...okay higher than "can he/she bake a cherry pie" but lower than "who pays for his/her wardrobe."

Yet, not once have I seen you chastise the author or call him a barnyard animal.

So what are the differences? Is it the ones doing the talking or the ones being talked about?