Why isn't MORE being said -

[Freedom]

about Palin and the aerial wolf hunts? Seems like an important point to me! She is in support of this horror.

[moosmom]

Sandie,

I did mention in another thread. She's put a bounty of $150 per head. Sickening isn't it.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I have trouble making peace with her "pro life" stance when she kills moose. :(

An animals life is just as important to it as ours is to us. :(:(

[lizbud]

I mentioned that in another thread & listed it as one of the reasons she's
not someone I'd vote for in any elected office.:(

[JenBKR]

Personally I have no problem with hunting when it is for food. While I could never do it myself, I believe that it is much more humane than commercial meat. That being said, I could not support hunting for sport. I didn't know anything about her supporting wolf hunts. So very sad :(

[caseysmom]

Personally I have no problem with hunting when it is for food. While I could never do it myself, I believe that it is much more humane than commercial meat. That being said, I could not support hunting for sport. I didn't know anything about her supporting wolf hunts. So very sad :(

They are not hunts they are aeriel shootings. This is not about hunting....well actually it is its to get rid of the wolves so the people can have more to hunt.

[shais_mom]

I have trouble making peace with her "pro life" stance when she kills moose. :(

An animals life is just as important to it as ours is to us. :(:(

True - but if she is hunting for food, I don't have a problem with it. If she is hunting Moose for the pure sport of it and leaves the dead animal where it lays to rot or be scavenged by another animal then I'm not in favor of it.
I couldn't or wouldn't hunt but don't have a problem with people who do it responsibly.
Not a vegetarian and don't think I could ever be I enjoy a nice hamburger and a juicy steak way too much.
That stated, this is only my opinion on hunting of meat animals. I do not agree with bear hunting or the wolf hunting.
The hunting of racoons around here has went down drastically in the last couple years and b/c of that we are being over run with racoons in town. They are losing their food sources and are now coming into town for food.
The local natural wildlife reservation had an over population of deer a few years ago, so they brought in coyotes to keep the deer population, now the coyotes have over bred and they brought in RATTLESNAKES for the population of coyotes.
Yea makes sense to me, my tax dollars at work.

[Marigold2]

This woman is against so many things I hold dear.
I truly believe in my heart she is evil. Her self-righteous, holer then God attitude is going to take away woman's freedom and bring about a true division in woman. She will bring about so much hurt and pain and send all of us back into the dark ages and back alleys.
She is a religous fanatic who thinks her way, her beliefs and her God is the correct and only way.
She will turn America into an Iraq for woman.
A true Christian does not try and force their beliefs upon others.
A true Christian lets everyone judge what is right and wrong and lets us decide the fate of our own soul.
She is as so many others before her, trying to rule the world with her own religous beliefs. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Seperation of church and state is what this country was founded on.

[Freedom]

Apologies to Moosmom and Lizbud, I guess I missed those posts. Sorry!

[kitten645]

I agree with all the statements made here. I'm merely hoping she is given enough rope to hang herself and quick. How incredibly idiotic to think that women will vote for women no matter what her qualifications! I see that as a slap in the face to feminists everywhere.
Claudia

[Puckstop31]

Sandie,

I did mention in another thread. She's put a bounty of $150 per head. Sickening isn't it.


Please note that the bounty was found to be unconstitutional and ZERO dollars were ever paid out.

Also, is this not the BB where we are asked to walk a mile in somebodies shoes before we judge? In this case, I am talking about the Alaskan people who, from what I have been told by an ACTUAL Alaskan, NEED the Caribou to survive.

There is WAY more to this story than just what our media is giving you.

[Puckstop31]

I have trouble making peace with her "pro life" stance when she kills moose. :(

An animals life is just as important to it as ours is to us. :(:(

I've said it before and I will say it again... This line of thinking is very disturbing to me. Don't get me wrong, I love my pets and treat all animal life humanely. But to put an animals life on even par with a human life....

If you REALLY believe our lives are equal, you should set your pets free. Because to keep them in captivity, if they are your EQUAL, is akin to slavery is it not?

[Logan]

A true Christian lets everyone judge what is right and wrong and lets us decide the fate of our own soul.

I believe that a true Christian is accepting and leaves judgement to God.

[Puckstop31]

I'll post his here too. Just in case. LOL

Interesting...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986/page/3

Seems to be that a lot of the rumors about Mrs. Palin are FALSE or are taken WAY out of context. Shocker.

[shais_mom]

This woman is against so many things I hold dear.
I truly believe in my heart she is evil. Her self-righteous, holer then God attitude is going to take away woman's freedom and bring about a true division in woman. She will bring about so much hurt and pain and send all of us back into the dark ages and back alleys.
She is a religous fanatic who thinks her way, her beliefs and her God is the correct and only way.
She will turn America into an Iraq for woman.
A true Christian does not try and force their beliefs upon others.
A true Christian lets everyone judge what is right and wrong and lets us decide the fate of our own soul.
She is as so many others before her, trying to rule the world with her own religous beliefs. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Seperation of church and state is what this country was founded on.

a true Christian isn't judgemental and accepts people for what/who they are.
What is it you are doing in judging her over what you've read from the media true or not.
I have a cousin whose maternal family is extremely Christian and extremely judgemental. But they claim to have been there for her and her family when they need it. Yea they sure were there for her. They were right there when the church they attended KICKED her off their church membership b/c she got a DUI at 19. Were they there when she cried and cried over it b/c she just knew that no one was going to love her anymore and everyone was going to hate her? Heck No, her grandpa is the preacher of that church he probably whited her name out himself. They sat there on their pedestals looking down their noses at her. The ones that were there for her was my family, her dad's side. Christians as well, but a completely different form of Christianity.

[shais_mom]

Please note that the bounty was found to be unconstitutional and ZERO dollars were ever paid out.

Also, is this not the BB where we are asked to walk a mile in somebodies shoes before we judge? In this case, I am talking about the Alaskan people who, from what I have been told by an ACTUAL Alaskan, NEED the Caribou to survive.

There is WAY more to this story than just what our media is giving you.

I agree.
1) in response to this quote its pretty easy for those of us in states that do not have wolves and/or/moose Caribou to be so judgemental over the wolf hunts. I love wolves, I think they are beautiful creatures, so read that before calling me a wolf hater. :rolleyes: I'm sorry but if a Caribou or a Moose is running at me and the only thing that's going to save me is someone pulling out a gun and shooting it. PLEASE GOD let that person have a gun!!

I've said it before and I will say it again... This line of thinking is very disturbing to me. Don't get me wrong, I love my pets and treat all animal life humanely. But to put an animals life on even par with a human life....

I also agree.
2) I LOVE my dog. And I LOVE my Cats. They are my children. But it says so in the Bible to not put an animal over a child. Sure their lives (animals in general) are precious to them but do not make the mistake of putting them up there on the pedestal with that of a human.
This reminds me of a conversation I had awhile back with a Pakistani ER doctor and a pregnant ER nurse who were asking me how much money I would spend on my dogs vet care. I felt like I was being made fun of, and put on the spot. I was highly defensive AND offended. I said "how much would you spend on your child" which in turn offended the pregnant nurse b/c "its different" True. It is different. My dog and a child aren't the same. But to put me on the spot like they did and make me so uncomfortable for loving my dog wasn't right either. I finally said, 'ummmm HELLO. this isn't happening. what business is it of yours anyway' and that ended the conversation.

[K9soul]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086

I love that, love The Daily Show. Jon Stewart for pres! :D :p

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I agree.
1) I'm sorry but if a Caribou or a Moose is running at me and the only thing that's going to save me is someone pulling out a gun and shooting it. PLEASE GOD let that person have a gun!!


But they weren't killing in self defense. They were deliberately hunting them to kill them.

You are right. Animals aren't the same as people. In some cases they are a higher life form. Like Mark Twain said: man is the only animal that blushes, or has a need to. :love:

[shais_mom]

But they weren't killing in self defense. They were deliberately hunting them to kill them.

You are right. Animals aren't the same as people. In some cases they are a higher life form. Like Mark Twain said: man is the only animal that blushes, or has a need to. :love:

Actually if the wolves are killing Alaskans Caribou that is a natural food source for them and part of their livliehood, they are killing in self defense.
I liken it to the sheep farmer or cattle farmer that has to kill the wolves/coyotes/moutain lions/bears/wild dog packs/etc that are killing their animals which is their livliehood. Do I like it? No. But as someone who raised sheep for many years and had them used as target practice by someone up to no good, I can certainly understand where they are coming from. Yep, that means I lost about 4-5 sheep one year to someone shooting them for no reason.
That Said - I couldn't hunt nor could I do the things that come with it.
Animals as a higher life form, I understand that. They do not sin, they do not swear. Yes, I believe all of them go to heaven b/c they belong there.

[Puckstop31]

But they weren't killing in self defense. They were deliberately hunting them to kill them.

You are right. Animals aren't the same as people. In some cases they are a higher life form. Like Mark Twain said: man is the only animal that blushes, or has a need to. :love:

:eek:

So, let me get this straight...

- Some animals hunt and kill other animals for food. Meaning they deliberately kill them.

- Animals are "in some cases" a higher life form. If they kill, for food, how does that make humans bad for doing the same thing?

[lvpets2002]

:o Keep the comments coming.. I find all of this reading very interesting.. We for sure learn by reading right.. Hey we are better than the media..:cool:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

:eek:

So, let me get this straight...

- Some animals hunt and kill other animals for food. Meaning they deliberately kill them.

- Animals are "in some cases" a higher life form. If they kill, for food, how does that make humans bad for doing the same thing?

Because we were given the freedom of reasoning and choice. Few animals kill just for the sport of it. Men can survive by being vegetable eaters, some animals can't. We can reason and invent alternate ways of surviving, animals can't.

[RICHARD]

Again, When man boxes off areas that animals live they protect and sometimes disrupt all living things in that area. This is all simple science and the rule of "Only the Strong Survive".


Get a pool and fill it with 100 goldfish. soon you'll have 200 if you care and fee them.

Put a shark in the pool, THe shark needs to eat, soon you have 1 shark and no gold fish. Because the shark won't eat fish flakes, It will die of hunger

When we start to mess with the balances of nature we screw things up.

Same thiing with wolves.IF we leave them alone in areas set aside as conservation parks, they will overhunt the other animals in the area until there is no more food.

Man sometimes has to step in, and as nasty as it sounds, take care of the messes he made and try to set things right.

[lizbud]

Because we were given the freedom of reasoning and choice. Few animals kill just for the sport of it. Men can survive by being vegetable eaters, some animals can't. We can reason and invent alternate ways of surviving, animals can't.



I agree with you 100 %. Both in this post and the previous post quoting
Mark Twain.:)

Here's another quote "lifted" from Finn's Mom

"The idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that is wrong with the world. - Dr. Paul Farmer "

[shais_mom]

Again, When man boxes off areas that animals live they protect and sometimes disrupt all living things in that area. This is all simple science and the rule of "Only the Strong Survive".


Get a pool and fill it with 100 goldfish. soon you'll have 200 if you care and fee them.

Put a shark in the pool, THe shark needs to eat, soon you have 1 shark and no gold fish. Because the shark won't eat fish flakes, It will die of hunger

When we start to mess with the balances of nature we screw things up.

Same thiing with wolves.IF we leave them alone in areas set aside as conservation parks, they will overhunt the other animals in the area until there is no more food.

Man sometimes has to step in, and as nasty as it sounds, take care of the messes he made and try to set things right.

ITA Richard. Well said!!!
I suppose this is why I stay out of the dog house b/c each person feels just as passionately about their issue as the next and in some cases no one is going to change the minds of the other.

[shais_mom]

But they weren't killing in self defense. They were deliberately hunting them to kill them.

You are right. Animals aren't the same as people. In some cases they are a higher life form. Like Mark Twain said: man is the only animal that blushes, or has a need to. :love:

But if something was threatening my liveliehood then you bet I would defend it and them hunting the wolves that are killing the caribou and I can just about bet money that if they are killing caribou then they are also killing sheep and horses and cattle as well then in that case - it is the farmer/rancher's self defense.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

ITA Richard. Well said!!!
I suppose this is why I stay out of the dog house b/c each person feels just as passionately about their issue as the next and in some cases no one is going to change the minds of the other.

That's ok! We can still care about each other even if we have different opinions. :love::)

[RICHARD]

That's ok! We can still care about each other even if we have different opinions. :love::)

I don't watch the show, Entourage, But I know about the saying that one of the characters has....


Hug it out!;)



SM,
THanks for following my typing, spelling and dropping words! My mind runs faster than my fingers.

[Karen]

But if something was threatening my liveliehood then you bet I would defend it and them hunting the wolves that are killing the caribou and I can just about bet money that if they are killing caribou then they are also killing sheep and horses and cattle as well then in that case - it is the farmer/rancher's self defense.

http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/wolves_what_food.htm

A good article on what wolves eat in Alaska - and neither sheep, horses, nor cattle are included. Just FYI.

We have messed up the ecosystem a whole lot, in my opinion. We drove the wolf to near extinction in much of the Eastern portion of the Northern US - and now have out-of-control deer populations. Sure, no one wants to kill Bambi, so they kill of its predators, but do they want to see forests depleted, and "Bambi" dying of starvation by the side of the highway, licking salt from the road?

I am not making that up. I have seen that, driving through upstate NY as a child. Carcasses of starved deer frozen onto the hillside, a live on here or there, just skin and bones, and you could see into the woods because there was no underbrush - the deer had eaten it all ...

We should NOT mess with the wolves in Alaska any more than we should have down here. IMHO.

[Puckstop31]

Because we were given the freedom of reasoning and choice. Few animals kill just for the sport of it. Men can survive by being vegetable eaters, some animals can't. We can reason and invent alternate ways of surviving, animals can't.

And yet Animals are superior to us?

But I digress.... Have you ever done any honest research into just how much honest and controlled hunting actually does more than anything else in keeping animal populations healthy? Like, imagine a world without deer hunting. Do you know what would happen? Deer population explodes, deer eat large amount of farmers corn... Corn drives a large part of our food supply, either directly or indirectly. Wanna pay 8 bux a gallon for milk?

Now I can understand how some people can feel the way they do about hunting and hunters. Perhaps in your mind I am just some evil kind of animal and that is OK. I just take heart in the fact that I KNOW the work I do with the NRA, NWTF, my hunting license fees, my 'gun club', ammo taxes, and so forth do more to expand and preserve animals and their habitat than will ever be made 100% known or understood to the public.

/rant :)

[caseysmom]

Okay to lighten things up a flock of turkeys was just walking down my very suburban street and I thought of you puckstop:D

[sparks19]

Okay to lighten things up a flock of turkeys was just walking down my very suburban street and I thought of you puckstop:D

BE QUIET!!!!!

LOL

I'm getting burnt out on Turkey talk lol. I'm tired of waking in the night to hear " *cries* come back turkey... come back" LOL just kidding He doesn't talk in his sleep... only snores. But I do hear about turkeys a lot. If he doesn't get one this year I don't know how I will make it through :D

[caseysmom]

BE QUIET!!!!!

LOL

I'm getting burnt out on Turkey talk lol. I'm tired of waking in the night to hear " *cries* come back turkey... come back" LOL just kidding He doesn't talk in his sleep... only snores. But I do hear about turkeys a lot. If he doesn't get one this year I don't know how I will make it through :D

He could have picked one off sitting on my lawn:D One of the neighborhood teenagers came flying around the corner, I thought for a minute I should start warming up the oven:D

[RICHARD]

I have to post a thougt...

I have seen tons of videos about people who have exotic animals that they have adopted into their lives. Pigs, horses, crocs and the duck that would fly along the car of the person who was 'adopted' by that animal.

Each of us has that one pet/family member that is extraordinary because of the attachment we have with them.

MY pet is a --------. All other -------- are not as special as mine.

-----------

One of the most impressive things that I have ever heard of is the reverence that hunters, who rely on the earth and the bounty from it, have.


Many cultures will stop after they kill game for food and say a prayer-to the land, the soul of the creature and their luck in being able to feed their family.

Today we send out the 'bread winner' to earn money so we can bypass the nasty side of gutting any meat we put on the table. Subtract 150 years from the calendar and and try to find a nice steak in town!

They saddest part of 'bringing home the bacon' is that we would starve before we would kill an animal for food. If we respect the world around us and
can use thought and care about the living things in it, we will be that much more informed as to how the world works.

----------------

In some cultures or religions people will say a prayer before a meal, to honor the animal that sits in the plate on the table.

Why?

I can only guess.

But, I suspect it's an acknowledgement of the person, circumstance and luck that was able to fill the plate. It's a homage to the land and how it was not to be taken for granted.

We all know how to order thru the drive-in at the local fast food joint.

If we have to forage for ourselves how do we get a meal?

I do know how to dress an animal in order to use the meat for food. I read it in a book and hope that I well never HAVE to do it. People who do provide meat for their families should not be treated as cruel.

I stop and wonder if I had to stay at home and send my GF, SO, wife to pick up a pound of moose meat from the local treeline.

I'd starve if I waited for a 'modern' woman to gut, skin and butcher my dinner.
I do not mean this as a slam to gals here in 2008. It's just a reminder that any woman is just as good a man should we need to depend on each other.

Native Americans ranked women the same as a good tool, a horse or and asset to live. Not because they were material objects0it was they were needed to survive
Show me a gal who hunts, fishes and doesn't need me me to go out and kill a meal?

She is golden.

Women should not be thought of as equal.
Women are not strong.
Women are figure heads.
Women are dumb beings who don't have any voice.
Women cannot do anything on their own.

My RB GF was special. She went from boats in the San Pedro harbor to sleeping on the ground in the mountains of SoCal.

But, I'd would have tossed her aside in an instant.
She never learned how to start a fire with a magnesium 'match'.
;)

[Puckstop31]

He could have picked one off sitting on my lawn:D One of the neighborhood teenagers came flying around the corner, I thought for a minute I should start warming up the oven:D


You wound me so. :(

:D



This spring was really frustrating. I took a noob along with me. (Don't get me wrong, he is one of my best friends and a life long hunter. Just not a turkey hunter and turkey hunting is WAY more challenging.) He would not sit still. He kept moving and rolling and making noise. LOL Tool. Anyway, one morning I worked one in really, really close. Like 10 more feet and my buddy would have had a shot. Don't know what happened but he got scared. I think his line of sight to the decoys was blocked by this old tree. Once he could not see "the prize", he bailed. LOL

First time I ever got one that close and did not harvest it. But, what are ya gonna do? LOL It still was a lot of fun and a great rush. He was gobbling up a storm and eating up my calling. Odd that he gets lazy that close. Ya win some, you lose some.


May I ask where in California you live? I have not heard of good turkey hunting in Cali.

[RICHARD]

One of the neighborhood teenagers came flying around the corner, I thought for a minute I should start warming up the oven:D


Was it Hansel or Gretel?

[caseysmom]

You wound me so. :(

:D



This spring was really frustrating. I took a noob along with me. (Don't get me wrong, he is one of my best friends and a life long hunter. Just not a turkey hunter and turkey hunting is WAY more challenging.) He would not sit still. He kept moving and rolling and making noise. LOL Tool. Anyway, one morning I worked one in really, really close. Like 10 more feet and my buddy would have had a shot. Don't know what happened but he got scared. I think his line of sight to the decoys was blocked by this old tree. Once he could not see "the prize", he bailed. LOL

First time I ever got one that close and did not harvest it. But, what are ya gonna do? LOL It still was a lot of fun and a great rush. He was gobbling up a storm and eating up my calling. Odd that he gets lazy that close. Ya win some, you lose some.


May I ask where in California you live? I have not heard of good turkey hunting in Cali.


I am in a suburb of Sacramento, actually there are lots of turkeys roaming around where I work also.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

And yet Animals are superior to us?

Now I can understand how some people can feel the way they do about hunting and hunters. Perhaps in your mind I am just some evil kind of animal and that is OK. I just take heart in the fact that I KNOW the work I do with the NRA, NWTF, my hunting license fees, my 'gun club', ammo taxes, and so forth do more to expand and preserve animals and their habitat than will ever be made 100% known or understood to the public.

/rant :)

Well, I've never had a animal break into my house and rob me at gun point or deliberately hurt me for no reason. So, yes, they are superior to us in lots of ways.

FYI, my parents and brother all hunted and taught me how to shoot. I just decided to never kill. The evil is what you hunt and the intent behind it. Watching an animal fight for its live has never pleased me.
I just rather shoot animals with a camera and let them live in the peace they have granted me.

[shais_mom]

I guess I can see several points in agreement with everyone.
I couldn't hunt but am glad for those that do b/c of overpopulation of the deer in our areas. I don't think its evil. I don't think the wolves should be killed UNLESS they are attacking farm animals or a person's livliehood.
We have very little predatory animals in our 'neck of the woods'. Other than coyotes. And not all coyotes can take down a deer. So therefore hunting is needed in our areas or we will be overrun with deer. So therefore I do not see hunting as evil nor do I see the people that do it as evil. The concept of being evil b/c you hunt is completely foreign to me. Being evil b/c you hunt humans is a different story of course. But that's neither here nor there and for a different thread.

[lizbud]

Well, I've never had a animal break into my house and rob me at gun point or deliberately hurt me for no reason. So, yes, they are superior to us in lots of ways.

FYI, my parents and brother all hunted and taught me how to shoot. I just decided to never kill. The evil is what you hunt and the intent behind it. Watching an animal fight for its live has never pleased me.
I just rather shoot animals with a camera and let them live in the peace they have granted me.


We could be long lost twins.:D I again agree 100%.:)

Unless I am being attacked by an animal, or my family is at death's door
due to lack of food, I could not take it's life for sport.

[shais_mom]

Pam made so much sense in her final quote in this thread that I just had to borrow it.
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=145681


Originally Posted by Pam
I think this is my last Dog House post. My daughter told me on Sunday that it is a waste of time to post here and she is correct. Peoples' minds are made up. (sp?)

ditto -

I read this thread to try to ed-u-cate myself and all that it has turned into is a pi$$ing contest against some people (members here) I shouldn't be surprised tho. B/c it always seems to happen.





Sayonarra!



Sayanarra Dog House. It will be awhile before I'm back.
You say to-mate-toe I say toe-maah-toe. It all comes down to the same thing -
Its all about trying to prove someone wrong and someone right. No one wants to concede that each may be right in their own context.
Stick a fork in me b/c I'm done.