McCain/Palin ??? [Archive]

Giselle

08-29-2008, 05:44 PM

Palin:
- 44 year old mom
- won Miss Wasilla beauty pageant
- majored in journalism; was a sports reporter
- rose from mayor to governor in the past 8 years

Hmm...and this is coming from a campaign that has been consistently and fervently attacking Obama's readiness to lead the country and his lack of national experience.

I'm sorry, but, imo, this is obviously a move to gain Hillary's feminists who have been put off by the Biden ticket. And it is a cheap cheap shot. Not to mention Palin is staunchly pro-life. I doubt the ultra-feminist types are going to fall for that...

McCain is old and has battled melanoma. Chances aren't low that Palin might have to assume the Presidency. I don't know about you, but that scares me.

Disclaimer: Obviously, I'm liberal and lean heavily towards Obama.

RICHARD

08-29-2008, 06:13 PM

I loved Palin for doing the Monty Python stuff.

-----------------------

Here's my thing about who get's elected.

I look at the presdential office as the guy who drives a bus.

We are along for the ride.

So, I would rather have some old guy that will get us to where we are going before we crash and burn, and maybe the 'back up 'driver can save us before that happens?

On the other hand, why have some rookie come on board for on the job training while some old dude gives him directions from the back seat?

Neither has given me any real answers about what they will do to improve the state of the union.

BO isn't an ordinary politician. He's a used car salesman.
JM is the kind of car salesman that will tell you, "I guarantee it's a good car buy it or get the eff off my lot."

Somehow I'd rather be treated rudely and know it's a good car, than have some dope tell me, "buy this car, As Is......":rolleyes:

Young and Stupid or Old and Infirm?:rolleyes:

I wonder what Will Rogers thinks about it!

kuhio98

08-29-2008, 07:18 PM

As an Alaskan, I am shocked at this decision. I never saw it coming.

I have met Sarah Palin and like her very much. I work with her husband in Prudhoe Bay. They are devoted to their family. She just had her son in April! He was born with Down Syndrome. So, I'm very surprised she accepted this offer.

Some friends "Outside" were asking me about the unique names of their children:

Track - Son. I think he was named for one of their favorite sports
Bristol - Daughter named after Bristol Bay in Alaska
Willow - Daughter named after a town in Alaska
Piper - Daughter. Piper is a type of airplane
Trig Paxson Van Palin - Son. Not sure about Trig, but Paxson is a place in Alaska and Sarah and her husband are Van Halen fans

Puckstop31

08-29-2008, 07:54 PM

You lefties should be very afraid. Sarah Palin is exactly the correct choice. She will energize a lot of people like me who USED to be Republicans, but bailed on the party because they were becoming just a liberal as the Democrats.

A.) Hard working mother of 5.
B.) Has at least some EXECUTIVE experience, unlike the 'messiah'.
C.) Has a son who is about to deploy to Iraq. No more sophmoric arguements about "you would not do this if it was YOUR son" from the left.
D.) She is a lifetime NRA member. She has a pic of a Elk she harvested on her bio page. Awesome.
E.) She has repeatedly called out REPUBLICANS who are corrupt.
F.) Very fiscally conservative. A good steward of OUR money.

I feel she is exactly what this nations needs. Somebody from the real world, not yet corrupted by the insanity of Washington DC. Lets just hope McBush slips on that banana peel a few weeks after inauguration day.

Libs... Be VERY afraid of this woman. She is smart, beautiful, hardworking, independant and not afraid to speak her mind. The only way you smear her is to lie and lies always see the sunshine, sooner or later.

And as my sig says... The Dems opened the door when the messiah chose Biden. An old school, Washington DC insider. I thought his theme was "change".

Hmmmmm....

sparks19

08-29-2008, 08:07 PM

Since it was announced that she was chosen why has it been crammed down our throats that she is a beauty pageant winner?

Does the fact that she is beautiful mean she isn't qualified? and it seems to be women who can't get past the fact that she won a beauty pageant. So WHAT? What does that have to do with ANYTHING?

didn't realize there was a rule that said you had to be old and ugly to be qualified :rolleyes:

Pam

08-29-2008, 08:18 PM

sparks19

08-29-2008, 08:21 PM

and how do you know she isn't capable? because she's only a governor?

From what I can tell... America's best bet may be someone who hasn't been corrupted yet... who is still a real person and not just a dummy with someone's hand up their butt making their mouth move.

She may turn out to be great. I have faith in her abililties.

Afterall... it has been proven that experience doesn't equal a good president lol if all it took was experience then we wouldn't be where we are right now. :)

Puckstop31

08-29-2008, 08:29 PM

As I see it Obama and McCain have both made their first major decisions in this race to the White House - the selection of a running mate. Obama has selected someone that is more than qualified to take over the reins in these unstable times. McCain, on the other hand, has shown very bad judgment. Eventually he will realize he just lost any hope of winning this election. If this is representative of the type of decision that he would make as president thank goodness he showed us ahead of time.

Well, well... Thus is the difference between people like you and people like me.

I see this as a brilliant choice BECAUSE she is outside the DC establishment. It is obvious that in the last 50+ years, neither party has done squat to help us, WE THE PEOPLE. I think this is the first good choice he has made in his run for office. Before this, I was going to write in Bob Barr.

Keep telling yourself that he will see he has lost hope. What you fail to see is that this choice will energize the millions of people like me... Former Republicans who left the party because of it's move to the left. Sarah Palin is a true conservative/libertarian.

Yes, you all SHOULD be very afraid of her.

I can't wait to hear how Obama plans to actually deliver his promised Utopia. You know, without taxing to death the people who give us all jobs. People like me. Small business people. People who work 70 hours a week. People who have to find ways to 'pay' ourselves OUR hard earned money in ways so the worthless government does not STEAL it.

Why is it that you on the left hate success so much? ;)

Pam

08-29-2008, 08:41 PM

Why is it that you on the left hate success so much? ;)

I am not on the left. Just ask anyone here who has been reading my posts for 8 years. I have voted both ways, Democratic and Republican, over the past several decades.

RICHARD

08-29-2008, 08:50 PM

Since it was announced that she was chosen why has it been crammed down our throats that she is a beauty pageant winner?

Because she would never bring it up in a conversation, because we think of any BP entrant as either a Hooter's girl, dental hygenist or a lingerie model?

She's breaking a mold here. The least that anyone can do is think about Geraldine Ferraro, Hillary and now Sarah Palin.

History always remembers the "first ones" chosen. We got past the first woman as a VP runner, Presidential candidate and now there's a real possibility to get a woman into office.

-----------------

She's a man's kind of woman. I just saw her pulling salmon nets into a boat, she jogs, she hunts, she played basketball in school, she gets double points from me if she drinks beer and watches sports with her husband

She could have talked her son out of enlisting-He signs up on 9/11 and will be deployed on 9/11- she goes ahead with birthing a child she knew has Down's and managed to have three more kids in between.

No experience? I guess you have to become a lawyer to get experience in life?;) Just kidding!

Karen

08-29-2008, 08:55 PM

My first thought was that it was a transparently blatant attempt at courting dissatisfied Hillary fans.

Nothing I have heard since has dissuaded me of that notion, though I know more about her now than I did before.

This should be a fascinating election and campaign.

Giselle

08-29-2008, 09:01 PM

C.) Has a son who is about to deploy to Iraq. No more sophmoric arguements about "you would not do this if it was YOUR son" from the left.

:confused:

And Biden has no children?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20316309/

RockyRoad

08-29-2008, 09:22 PM

I knew nothing about Palin and had never heard of her prior to McCain`s decision. The first thing I thought of it was an attempt at winning Hillary`s feminist voters. I thought it was a shaky move for him. Then, I did my research and learned more about her, and she`s grown on me a lot. I agree with all the reasons Puckstop stated of why she is a good person and a good representative of her party. I was praying for Romney to get the nod, but I never really expected him to. However, I`ll be voting for my candidate primarily because of him, not because of his vice president. I don`t really know what this one is going to turn into, though, I think independents are going to have a big impact.

Because she would never bring it up in a conversation, because we think of any BP entrant as either a Hooter's girl, dental hygenist or a lingerie model?
I`m in school to become a dental hygienist, does this mean I can look forward to a Beauty Pageant in my future too? :p:rolleyes:

sparks19

08-29-2008, 09:44 PM

I just wanted to post something a friend of mine said. I had emailed him asking how he felt about her as he is from Alaska and has some personal (so to speak) experience with her in government....

Palin has not only standards but experience McCain and Obama lack. She has stood up to oil companies, other local polititians and utillities, cut taxes, and told the feds we dont need their money. She is down to earth as you have seen, more outside the beltway then those who are outside the beltway. She is pro developement, not just here but country wide. If she is as pro American as she is pro Alaskan she should be the going for president not the VP.

I guess she's not just a pretty face... she might actually have some substance. and she may not have the "experience" of a lifetime corrupt politician but she seems to have the experience we need the most... standing up to people who are trying to screw us. If she can keep this going in the white house and get McCain to go along with the same idea... I think she's wonderful

jazzcat

08-29-2008, 10:26 PM

I like this choice. I think it was a great idea to get out of the good ole boy network. Seems like change is such a big theme, well she is definitely a change and I think a refreshing one at that.

I had to put both party tickets to my test. Which one rolls off the tongue easier - Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin. The GOP wins that one for me, too much b-b-b, I feel like I'm stuttering with Obama/Biden. Pretty scientific, huh?:p

RICHARD

08-29-2008, 10:42 PM

I`m in school to become a dental hygienist, does this mean I can look forward to a Beauty Pageant in my future too? :p:rolleyes:

That's up to you, I am still trying to decide what I want to be after I grow up.
Do not panic- that is an old joke about exotic dancers. They dance to get money to pay for DH school. They only plan on doing it for a year then go to school.

Actually, since you are already in school you are disqualified from BPs and dancing. Sorry.

------------------------

We could always see it President Camacho from the movie "Idiocracy" is interested in running again.

Now, he was a leader!

RockyRoad

08-29-2008, 11:34 PM

That's up to you, I am still trying to decide what I want to be after I grow up.
Do not panic- that is an old joke about exotic dancers. They dance to get money to pay for DH school. They only plan on doing it for a year then go to school.

Actually, since you are already in school you are disqualified from BPs and dancing. Sorry.

Fortunately, I`m not in that situation, so I guess that does indeed disqualify me. Can`t say I`m too sorry!

Suki Wingy

08-30-2008, 01:52 AM

I don't know, but what I see is a skrewy last attempt to gain voters because she's a woman and believes in "all that good old fashion stuff." As soon as I heard I couldn't help but think McCain just skrewed himself over on that one. Better luck in 4 years?

In fact, she and I could not be farther apart on the things that I really care about.

RICHARD

08-30-2008, 04:41 AM

Now, isn't an election the attempt, first and last, to gain more voters than the other guy?

Isn't that what a woman has been struggling for for the last how many years?

This woman is a joke to the men who want to keep their women right where they want them, in the bedroom and kitchen, She's also a joke to the women who think that they should stay in the bedroom and kitchen.

All of a sudden a woman is given the chance to shine and the machistas and women aren't really sure about some dame who shoots her own basketballs and meat, knows a first down from a touchdown and is not just another pretty face, she was a beauty queen.

It's the same dopey reasons we fear an auricularly enlarged dopey rookie senator/lawyer with some ideas that change from day to day.

I've been bored with the half lawyer/half senator that has promised us to end a war so we can continue it a few miles down the road. That wants to raise taxes to lower prices. He promises to give everyone cheap health care- and you will get exactly that- cheap health care. But it won't be free and heaven help you all when you have to see your government appointed physicians!

Palin hasn't promised anything yet. She's the understudy, waiting in the wings.
We haven't heard her 'voice' yet.

We have already seen 'BO the rock star and president' for the last year- Talking 'bout my g-g-g-g-generation....(pun intended). ANd change, change, change!

It is time to take away some of the power from the white, black and in between dudes that run stuff into the ground. LOL, instead of tough talking
males, I think a softer touch may be needed. When was the last time we were given a hug, had our boo-boos attended to and told not to cry?

IT ain't no goofy fricking senator cruising an airport restroom that's gonna make me feel better about my country.

It may be a political dare that JM has taken, but you have to give him credit for giving her a chance. All the pundits said that BO and HRC were an unbeatable combo. We'll never know.

I really want to see a woman as Vice President.

Why? I want to see the men sweat and women wrinkle their noses. I want to hear all the nasty jokes about how another old dude and young black dude were no match for and old guy and a relatively unknown gal.

Will it matter much? Only to the who lose this election. They'll cry and moan about how the votes weren't counted right, machines failed and the results were announced to soon so us idiots on the West Coast can throw up our arms and say, "My vote won't count!"

It's time to celebrate! Women got out of the kitchen, got to vote, ran for office and won and now we can really step out onto the world scene and say that we are catching up to some of countries that are being steered by a woman at the helm.

As the paragon of wit and intelligence, Bill Maher is already making jokes, He said something like this last night, "If something happens to McCain, he can pass the controls to the stewardess."

Poor gals, you are still drink servers, pillow fluffers and barf bag handlers to some men.

You got the chance, take it and run-before the AHs that call themselves men take it away from you.;)

sasvermont

08-30-2008, 07:03 AM

I was floored to see Palin's name. I think it was a wrong move. I could be wrong. I don't think she has enough experience and exposure to be vice president. We shall see, and soon.

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 07:19 AM

I am not on the left. Just ask anyone here who has been reading my posts for 8 years. I have voted both ways, Democratic and Republican, over the past several decades.

Voting D or R does not mean anything. There is so little difference between the parties now. But if you are a BIG fan of Joe Biden, you certainly are not a social or fiscal conservative.

Just sayin'

To SAY nice things is one thing... To come up with ways to pay for them is another. You know, rather than bone the people who got off their bums and EARNED it.

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 07:24 AM

My first thought was that it was a transparently blatant attempt at courting dissatisfied Hillary fans.

Of COURSE it was. But as a bonus, Mrs. Palin actually has some values to back it up with.

Nothing I have heard since has dissuaded me of that notion, though I know more about her now than I did before.

Of COURSE not. ;)

This should be a fascinating election and campaign.

+100 :) I was so not interested until this.

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 07:27 AM

:confused:

And Biden has no children?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20316309/

Well... Good for him. Really.

But he IS a JAG officer. I doubt he ever leaves the wire. But still, good for him.

This makes me want to find out what Palin's son does. Is he a pointy edge guy or a REMF.

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 07:29 AM

Marigold2

08-30-2008, 08:16 AM

Oggyflute

08-30-2008, 08:24 AM

She's a man's kind of woman. I just saw her pulling salmon nets into a boat, she jogs, she hunts, she played basketball in school, she gets double points from me if she drinks beer and watches sports with her husband

How good is that! :D (positions are available down here, if things don't work out ;))

IRescue452

08-30-2008, 08:36 AM

Another anti-change conservative? Might as well give her a strap-on and call her one of the good ol' boys.

pomtzu

08-30-2008, 08:44 AM

I would hate to think that McCain won the election because of Palin, but I do believe he made his selection of her with the idea of getting Hillary supporters' votes. This is not an election based on gender, just as it isn't based on color. At least I hope it isn't either of these!

Suki Wingy

08-30-2008, 11:02 AM

I don't care that she's a woman. I care about the fact that she is against everything I believe in when it comes to big topics.

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 11:08 AM

I think it's a good choice for McCain's camp.
She will get the female vote and some of the mucho male vote.
For me she will not. A hunter. I would never vote for a hunter. Pro-life will not get my vote either.
Being both a hunter and pro-life doesn't make any sense to me at all.
How you can look an innocent animal in the face and blow it's heart out :(:(:(:( that is murder.

You equate harvesting a game animal with murder. That is so insane, I really can't put it in words. MURDER. That tells me that hunters should be arrested and put in jail. Is that what you really think? REALLY?

FWIW, hunting is about WAY, WAY more than the kill. You clearly have no idea what it is about and I doubt you ever care to. Before you truly HATE something, you should learn the truth about it.

Oh and get ready to cry, alot. LOL Dove season opens on Monday. Then, Deer and Fall Turkey's not long after that. :love:

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 11:09 AM

I don't care that she's a woman. I care about the fact that she is against everything I believe in when it comes to big topics.

Yeah, that damn freedom and our ability to keep OUR money.

This board is SO entertaining.

sasvermont

08-30-2008, 11:34 AM

sparks19

08-30-2008, 11:57 AM

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 12:14 PM

I had a feeling this topic would draw some interesting comments. I am not enjoying some of the tones, but it is in Dog House, where it belongs. I hope everyone will remain civil.

And I hope everyone will vote! :eek:

;)

I'll try, mom. LOL

But hey, politics is a contact sport. Sometimes you get a bruise. Just like life SHOULD be. Sadly too many people feel that 'somebody' should keep them safe, warm, fed etc... That 'somebody' is YOURSELF. Not me, not the government... Of course in times of trouble we all need somewhere to turn. That is what family, church, clubs, community is for.

I know I sometimes come across as harsh and well, usually I mean to. But I am very passionate about these things. Spent to many years in crappy places fighting for this country to allow certain people to piss away all the freedom bought with blood.

All this being said, I would love to have a beer with anybody in this debate. I am sure we could have a great time, as long as we don't talk about this. LOL

Miss Z

08-30-2008, 12:19 PM

Possibly being terribly British here, but ....

Libs... Be VERY afraid of this woman.

...noticed this posted somewhere and had to comment.

Why should political rivals 'fear' the other's candidates? What on earth is politics like over there? :confused:

Secondly,

This has got to be one of the most silly thing I have ever read. Are you being serious?

"Something smaller than a pea." Well, that 'pea' has its own DNA. Your arguement almost sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that abortion is not murder. http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/wink.gif

Yet you equate harvesting a game animal with murder. That is so insane, I really can't put it in words. MURDER. That tells me that hunters should be arrested and put in jail. Is that what you really think? REALLY?

FWIW, hunting is about WAY, WAY more than the kill. You clearly have no idea what it is about and I doubt you ever care to. Before you truly HATE something, you should learn the truth about it.

Oh and get ready to cry, alot. LOL Dove season opens on Monday. Then, Deer and Fall Turkey's not long after that. http://petoftheday.com/smiles/PetTalk_heart.gif

Eesh, did you step out the door with your left foot this morning? :rolleyes: There was no need to reply that rudely to Marigold.

I am pro-choice too when it comes to abortion. I believe a very young foetus is not truly 'alive' until it can experience senses, particularly pain. OK, it has DNA. So does every nucleus in every cell of the human body. I don't feel terrible if I shake my head and wipe out tens of thousand of them in the space of a few seconds.

It is far more cruel to bring an unwanted child into the world, or risk the life/health of the mother in birth, than to abort the pregnancy early on.

Anything you kill when hunting has DNA, if that is so significant to you.

I am vegetarian, so please hold the 'it's-no-different-to-eating-a-beefburger-so-don't-be-hypocritical', in case anyone would like to voice that. ;)

It takes a little man to demand a woman to cry. A really little man. I'm really surprised you added that.

RICHARD

08-30-2008, 12:38 PM

Might as well give her a strap-on and call her one of the good ol' boys.

Hmm, interesting comment. Nope, she'd still be a woman.

What is the age limit for THE SECTION at the back of the video rental store?

ON second thought, you should have that keyboard washed out with soap.
-----------------------------------

LOL, things were civil until woman was mentioned, then the fit hit the shan. That's reallly telling. People let themselves be swayed by an orator with 'rock star good looks'. When a candidate shows up that does have resume and we know about every core value she has in 5 minutes, she's a
a hack, a political ploy and everything that woman are against.

Maybe the kitchen and bedroom are proper places after all.:(:rolleyes:

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 02:37 PM

Possibly being terribly British here, but ....

...noticed this posted somewhere and had to comment.

Why should political rivals 'fear' the other's candidates? What on earth is politics like over there? :confused:

Two people separated by a common language. LOL

"Fear", as in be worried about. As in she will be a factor that will cause Obama's supporters heartburn because she is that good.

Sheesh.

Eesh, did you step out the door with your left foot this morning? :rolleyes: There was no need to reply that rudely to Marigold.

I am pro-choice too when it comes to abortion. I believe a very young foetus is not truly 'alive' until it can experience senses, particularly pain. OK, it has DNA. So does every nucleus in every cell of the human body. I don't feel terrible if I shake my head and wipe out tens of thousand of them in the space of a few seconds.

It is far more cruel to bring an unwanted child into the world, or risk the life/health of the mother in birth, than to abort the pregnancy early on.

Anything you kill when hunting has DNA, if that is so significant to you.

I am vegetarian, so please hold the 'it's-no-different-to-eating-a-beefburger-so-don't-be-hypocritical', in case anyone would like to voice that. ;)

It takes a little man to demand a woman to cry. A really little man. I'm really surprised you added that.

My turn to roll my eyes at you.

:rolleyes:

I said own DNA, as in different. As in different DNA than the mother. Thus, to me, it is a separate human life and not just a 'gob of cells' inside the mother. And come on... Give me a LITTLE bit of credit. Or, should I thank you for pointing out the glaringly obvious?

As for the crying thing.... Well, nearly everybody here thinks I am some kind of monster, so I will just play my part.

Why do so many people on this BB take everything to literally? Can none of you see sarcasm? Or only when it is the kind said during something you agree with?

sasvermont

08-30-2008, 02:48 PM

Bonny

08-30-2008, 03:07 PM

Who knows for sure but the voters of this fine country. Everyone seems to be preaching we need to get rid of the old & bring in the new. Well, I would call this really bringing in the NEW. :D

Miss Z

08-30-2008, 03:20 PM

My turn to roll my eyes at you.

:rolleyes:

I said own DNA, as in different. As in different DNA than the mother. Thus, to me, it is a separate human life and not just a 'gob of cells' inside the mother. And come on... Give me a LITTLE bit of credit. Or, should I thank you for pointing out the glaringly obvious?

As for the crying thing.... Well, nearly everybody here thinks I am some kind of monster, so I will just play my part.

Why do so many people on this BB take everything to literally? Can none of you see sarcasm? Or only when it is the kind said during something you agree with?

What is it that you would like credit for? Your opinions? Or that you don't equate cells of the body to a very young foetus?

As for the sarcasm thing, I used sarcasm right here.

I don't feel terrible if I shake my head and wipe out tens of thousand of them in the space of a few seconds.

So yes, thank you, I like and do understand the concept of sarcasm. :D

Maybe my sarcasm and your sarcasm are different, because all I saw in your reply to Marigold was spite.

The monster thing - is it supposed to make me feel sorry for you? :confused: I was quite vexed by that. It's a shame you feel you have to present yourself in that way. People meeting me in person for the first time could, and have, gotten the impression that I'm common and not much more than a young face. It doesn't mean I try to conform to that image that is so opposite to the real me. Sorry, but you lost me on that one.

I will now back out this thread for I have no further contribution on the trials and tribulations of US politics, and I don't want to get too off topic from the OP.

sparks19

08-30-2008, 03:30 PM

Who knows for sure but the voters of this fine country. Everyone seems to be preaching we need to get rid of the old & bring in the new. Well, I would call this really bringing in the NEW. :D

Agreed :D

People complain that life long politicians are corrupt and we need people who haven't yet been corrupted by the "system". then they complain that people who aren't yet corrupted by the system aren't experienced enough.

Which is it?

I'm willing to try someone new. Can't get any worse than the choices we do have or have had in recent past. I think we've pretty much hit political "rock bottom"

Edwina's Secretary

08-30-2008, 03:37 PM

Agreed :D

People complain that life long politicians are corrupt and we need people who haven't yet been corrupted by the "system". then they complain that people who aren't yet corrupted by the system aren't experienced enough.

Yes, that's what I wonder. Why do people complain about Barak Obama not being experienced enough?

Bonny

08-30-2008, 03:40 PM

sparks19

08-30-2008, 03:44 PM

Yes, that's what I wonder. Why do people complain about Barak Obama not being experienced enough?

I dont know. I haven't and I don't know anyone who has used that as a reasoning not to vote for him. So I couldn't tell you.

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 04:32 PM

Maybe many of us just don't like sarcasm!

I appreciate the fact that everyone has their point to get across, but the more civilized we are the less off track we get.

We all know that you are smart. What I find difficult to understand is why you must spoil that with sarcasm.

Just my opinion. Doesn't make me right!

Well... Tough. LOL Just because you don't like or cannot appreciate sarcasm is not my problem. But I bet if somebody who said something to/about me that was sarcastic, you would enjoy it. Or if sarcasm is used in a way that makes you agree with it...

I don't see it as spoiling the arguement. I see it as a little spice. This IS the internet afterall. We certainly are not going to solve the worlds problems here. But it sure is fun to talk about it. Yes, fun. I can plainly see that my point of view on most things is in the vast minority here. That is the very reason I like to post about this stuff here. You never learn anything when all you do is talk/argue with people you agree with. Kinda like why our public schools suck. Nobody is ever allowed to fail or get burned and we rarely learn things from success. We learn by failing, then getting up, dusting off and moving forward.

I get it that you are (right now) a Republican.

:eek:

How dare you insult me like that? LOL I am a Libertarian in point of view, but registered as an independant. I was voting for Bob Barr until Palin got into the mix. She is a true conservative with Libertarian leanings and she really has the potential to be part of the winning ticket. That gets her that much closer to the big prize.

Miss Z

08-30-2008, 04:36 PM

OK, sorry people, I do have to post one more time (:() because I feel this may be constructive to the thread.

You are a Brit! Why should you be concerned about how we Americans vote or feel about our candidates? This is a free country we all have our separate opinions to the issues at hand & will vote accordingly when the time comes. May the best qualified black, white, male, female, democat, republican, WIN. Oh I love my country the U. S. A. Land of the free home of the brave!!!

Ooook. :eek:

Nice of you to pour all your patriotism down my throat.

I happen to love my country too - land of Harry Potter and Leona Lewis. :rolleyes: ;)

My country is also free; I'm sorry your knowledge of the world is so limited that you did not already know that. If you have ever been to the UK and experienced our culture, perhaps then you would realise the startling differences between our political systems, and why sometimes I find it difficult to grasp America's way of thinking. My bad entirely.

Also perhaps if you knew anything of British PC, you would know that anyone who dared to bring race or religion against a candidate would have their head on the block instantly. We are the most ridiculously PC nation in the world. Heck, you can get in trouble over here for ordering a 'black' coffee! So I am afraid you are mistaken if you took my post as an insult to Barack Obama.

Please point out to me where I tried to change someone's opinion about their preferred candidate, or where I claimed I knew how your political system should be running.

I'm 16 - I haven't yet gained enough experience of politics in my own country to dare to challenge that of someone else's.

I initially replied to this thread as I was shocked to see a vehement reply, and I thought I should inquire about the 'fear' comment to make the post relevent to this topic.

OK, finally onto the bit which I think is useful to the thread.

Why shouldn't I be concerned with how America votes?

You are, are you not, an ally of Great Britain, fighting with us in Iraq and Afghanistan?

You are, are you not, one of the top economic powers in the world?

You are, are you not, a nation which could help to pull us through climate change?

You believe that I should be unconcerned to how America votes? Eesh, I'm almost as concerned about how you lot vote as I am how we vote in Great Britain! Get it wrong and the whole world can be in catastrophe!

Do not think that because the majority of people on this board are from across the pond that I should feel I have to exclude myself from their discussions, Bonny. I have as much right as you to post on whatever topic I like. So what if I want to read threads like this and learn about how things work over there? Where is the problem in that?

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 04:39 PM

What is it that you would like credit for? Your opinions? Or that you don't equate cells of the body to a very young foetus?

As for the sarcasm thing, I used sarcasm right here.

LOL. NO. I want you to think enough of my intellect so that you would not assume I do not know that EVERY living thing has its 'own' DNA. Are you following this now? Your original responce sounded to me like you were trying to inform me that everything has DNA. I know that. LOL

Oh, and if that was sarcasm.... I didn't get it.

Maybe my sarcasm and your sarcasm are different, because all I saw in your reply to Marigold was spite.

Well, thats good. Because there was supposed to be a little spite in my responce. Because IMHO, she said something very dangerous.

The monster thing - is it supposed to make me feel sorry for you? :confused: I was quite vexed by that. It's a shame you feel you have to present yourself in that way. People meeting me in person for the first time could, and have, gotten the impression that I'm common and not much more than a young face. It doesn't mean I try to conform to that image that is so opposite to the real me. Sorry, but you lost me on that one.

<sigh>

Did we just not discuss the whole sarcasm thing? No, I don't want you to feel sorry for me. LOL That is actually comical to think about.

I LIKE to present myself that way, HERE. Think of me as an actor playing a role. ;)

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 04:42 PM

Also perhaps if you knew anything of British PC, you would know that anyone who dared to bring race or religion against a candidate would have their head on the block instantly. We are the most ridiculously PC nation in the world. Heck, you can get in trouble over here for ordering a 'black' coffee! So I am afraid you are mistaken if you took my post as an insult to Barack Obama.

If that is how you define 'freedom', I want nothing of it.

sasvermont

08-30-2008, 04:46 PM

Adding.....:rolleyes:

Miss Z

08-30-2008, 04:49 PM

Oh, and if that was sarcasm.... I didn't get it.

Fair enough, we don't understand each other, what's new? :D

Did we just not discuss the whole sarcasm thing? No, I don't want you to feel sorry for me. LOL That is actually comical to think about.

I LIKE to present myself that way, HERE. Think of me as an actor playing a role. ;)

Once again I find it strange why you like to present yourself as that, but it's OK, I don't need for it to be related as acting to work out that perhaps being challenged gives you a thrill. Glad to have made your day!

I wasn't going to feel sorry for you anyway, so sorry I can't add some comedy into the mix. Gah, nobody's perfect, I suppose.

ETA:

If that is how you define 'freedom', I want nothing of it.

You are welcome to not have it?

I'm sorry I can't change some of the wrongs in my country for you.

Killearn Kitties

08-30-2008, 05:04 PM

You are a Brit! Why should you be concerned about how we Americans vote or feel about our candidates?
The economies of Europe and the United States are inextricably linked. That makes it of interest to us who America elects.

Karen

08-30-2008, 05:39 PM

Remember, even in the course of political discussions, this is still Pet Talk, so keep things polite and safe for children to read.

And remember, often something intended as sarcasm can be misread - posts on an online board don;t have a "tone of voice" to indicate sarcasm, or facial expression to do so, so be careful what you type, and if you want something to be taken as sarcasm, you'd better add "meant sarcastically" after it to be sure.

RICHARD

08-30-2008, 06:08 PM

Oh, I heard a wonderful talk show and I forgot to see what/who it was becuase I was interrupted.

I was in the kitchen and nearly dropped a skillet with hot grease in it.

A woman came out and pooh-poohed the talk about Palin not having any experience.

She said that SP has MORE experience that the other three bobos combined.

She ran a small city for three terms. ( I think that was her run), then she ran a state, not for an extended period of time, but enough to get the drift.

She also 'ran' her own 'army', The Alaska National Guard-to which the male guest said that it wasn't the same as running the '82nd Airborne Division'.
Gotcha, it's true.

What have the other three done except run an state office under the pretense of representing the state they are from? Really, what does a senator do? Is that a real job? :rolleyes:

I'll give McCain and Biden a nod in the experience box- So that leaves us with a lawyer who sat around and decided when and who he was going to work for. It must be nice to tell someone, "I can't help you, the law is against you."

Now, how will that work in the 'big' picture? Gonna feel comfortable telling a country or region, TFB, it's not our problem? Or "Can you stop killing people for a minute while we talk?"

I heard a poigant story about how BO could not make it to the Dem Convention in Los Angeles. Why? His credit card limit didn't allow him a rental when he got to the airport. He came to El Lay and didn't have the funds to rent a fricken car?

Now, that may not sound like a whole lot.....But, If you fly halfway across the country for a convention and haven't taken the steps to insure you have enough funds to rent a car, it shows what kind of attention you have to details.

I think we can ill afford to put someone into office that can't get from point A to point B because they can't think ahead..:rolleyes:

lizbud

08-30-2008, 07:05 PM

I like and do understand the concept of sarcasm. :D

Maybe my sarcasm and your sarcasm are different, because all I saw in your reply to Marigold was spite.

The monster thing - is it supposed to make me feel sorry for you? :confused: I was quite vexed by that. It's a shame you feel you have to present yourself in that way. People meeting me in person for the first time could, and have, gotten the impression that I'm common and not much more than a young face. It doesn't mean I try to conform to that image that is so opposite to the real me. Sorry, but you lost me on that one.

I will now back out this thread for I have no further contribution on the trials and tribulations of US politics, and I don't want to get too off topic from the OP.

Zara, do you know the game of Hockey? This guy has taken a few to
many pucks to the head.:D Just consider the source,ok? He's posting again
after a long absence & loves to argue just for the sake of arguement. This
is not to be taken seriously. :)

kuhio98

08-30-2008, 07:46 PM

I'm just glad we can discuss politics here.

On another board, I posted my surprise (more like shock and awe) at McCain's choice for VP.
I never even considered our Govenor as an option. In no way did I attempt to pursuade anyone to vote for McCain. In no way did I imply that I supported -- or did not support -- this choice.

Another member posted that they could never vote for a person who hunted. I responded that many Alaskan's hunt -- and eat what they hunt and that though I don't hunt, my freezer is full of fish that I caught. And that I would never vote -- or not vote -- for someone based on one issue.

The board moderated posted that they would prefer there be no more political discussion. Sheesh!

You shouldn't judge the world based upon just your little corner of it. Half of Alaska's population does not live near a grocery store. Hunting is not against the law. Many Alaskan's hunt for subsistance. That may not be the norm in your area of the world.

With all the huge problems going on in the world right now, I can't imagine voting -- or not voting for someone -- based upon whether they hunted. :confused:

kuhio98

08-30-2008, 07:51 PM

Somehow I have the feeling that McCain cooked his own goose and gave the presidency to Obama. When I heard who he picked as his running mate, I said "WHO??" Of course I will check this gal out further before I make my final decision but I sure would like to ask Mccain "what were you thinking???" Anybody have the same thoughts here? :confused:A newcomer COULD be a good idea. She hasn't made deals with anyone to get into power. She hasn't made any promises to big wigs for their support. In her 16+ years in public office, she has had Republicans, Democrats, Independents and Libertarian's on her Staff. She doesn't owe anyone any favors -- and no one party owes her anything.

caseysmom

08-30-2008, 08:38 PM

I think his choice was brilliant. I also agree about hunting being a non issue, if you eat meat your much more humane hunting that buying meat that was butchered in a meat packing plant, if you don't believe me read fast food nation.

I like her and I think he made a wise choice, will it get me to change my vote...probably not but it has got me thinking and its not because she is a woman, its the kind of woman she is.

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 08:59 PM

Adding.....:rolleyes:

LOL, I love how so many people on this BB just ignore the people they disagree with.

WEAK.

And stop... Your breaking my heart.

Lady's Human

08-30-2008, 09:03 PM

It has nothing at all to do with being weak.

It as to do with realising the fact that this is first and foremost a PET discussion forum, and it's just not worth getting that upset over what are, to the purposes of this board, ancillary issues.

We're here for pets, not politics.

Suki Wingy

08-30-2008, 09:14 PM

Yeah, that damn freedom and our ability to keep OUR money.

This board is SO entertaining.

Actually, I can not bring myself to ever vote for a person who is against abortion, against same sex marriage, and supports the hunting of apex predators, and even pays people per head on them. I really don't mind if you hunt game animals to use for your own food and resources, but the ecosystem is a lot more delicate than most people care to think. Every little thing is interconnected and drastically reducing numbers of apex predators, like grey and timber wolves, can do quite a lot more harm than it can ever do good. Call me crazy, but I think keeping the ecosystem in balance is jut as important as health care.

In my own little convoluted and delusional mind, people would be smart enough and ethical enough to have an anarchy, but I know that will never happen because not everyone has the same ethics and not everyone is wise enough to leave people who don't think the same way as them alone, or to take it upon themselves to do what they can to help others who may be in need of a little help.

I am probably going to get flamed badly for saying that but that is what I believe in, and I respect everybody's opinion, without first jumping down their throats because it's different from mine. Plus, I know how to use the block feature.

Puckstop31

08-30-2008, 09:15 PM

Zara, do you know the game of Hockey? This guy has taken a few to
many pucks to the head.:D Just consider the source,ok? He's posting again
after a long absence & loves to argue just for the sake of arguement. This
is not to be taken seriously. :)

Awesome. Somebody gets me. LOL

This BB is so "nanny state", and absurdly PC is is almost comical. You all say it is "for the children". When you say that, a chill runs down my back. if you cared about the kids, you let them learn to fail. You would teach them that sometimes people will do and say things that 'hurt' them or that they disagree with. We need to teach them how to deal with that.

To bury their heads and hide it... The worst thing you can do.

I for one, will teach my daughter to be strong and to stand up and fight for what she believes in. Even if things get rough from time to time. It might not be the "prettiest" thing, but it is the truth and the truth has nothing to hide.

Now I know what you will say... Yes I was a bit harsh in one post here. But I MEANT for it to be. Does not any one else see how harmful equating legally harvesting game animals to MURDER is? Of course we shuld treat our pets with care. We should treat domestic farm animals humanely. We should care for and nurture nature. But to put wildlife on the same level as humans... That is just so like PETA. If that is true, we are ALL criminals because we own pets. If we OWN pets and they are on the same level as us, dose this not make us slave owners?

I'll leave ya all with this. I am not the big meanie I seem to be. I STILL weep for my Teddy. I weep when I think about my daughter and how she is growing up so fast. But I really weep when I see how weak willed we are becoming as a society. How wide open to nanny state fascism we are making ourselves. We are becoming fat and lazy. We look to someone ELSE for the answers to our mostly imagined problems.

So to tie this all back to the main point of this thread. I like Sarah Palin because she is none of the things I describe in the previous paragraph. She is a GOYA (get off you bum) kind of person. She is a person who tells you to look to your self to make your life better, because that is the only way it can REALLY happen. If you look to someone 'else' to make your problems go away, you make yourself nothing but a slave.

So put that in your "consider the source" pipe and smoke it. :)

sparks19

08-30-2008, 09:49 PM

A newcomer COULD be a good idea. She hasn't made deals with anyone to get into power. She hasn't made any promises to big wigs for their support. In her 16+ years in public office, she has had Republicans, Democrats, Independents and Libertarian's on her Staff. She doesn't owe anyone any favors -- and no one party owes her anything.

Good post.

It's nice to hear the point of view from someone who has some experience with her politics and her accomplishments.

Thanks for posting :)

sparks19

08-30-2008, 09:54 PM

Actually, I can not bring myself to ever vote for a person who is against abortion, against same sex marriage, and supports the hunting of apex predators, and even pays people per head on them. I really don't mind if you hunt game animals to use for your own food and resources, but the ecosystem is a lot more delicate than most people care to think. Every little thing is interconnected and drastically reducing numbers of apex predators, like grey and timber wolves, can do quite a lot more harm than it can ever do good. Call me crazy, but I think keeping the ecosystem in balance is jut as important as health care.

.

Now this I can get on board with. I do not support hunting just for a pelt if you aren't going to use the meat. I don't know many REAL hunters that do either. But I know there are a lot of buttheads out there that do this. That is not something I will ever agree with.

Ted Nugent was on the Glenn Beck show last night and they were talking about hunting. He was saying that everything he harvests during his hunts he donates to homeless shelters. Every ounce of meat goes to feed starving families. I love that idea. There are a lot of hunters that do the same thing and I think it's wonderful to "spread the wealth" so to speak.

But I don't support hunting strictly for fur or antlers. If you hunt it... EAT IT.

Grace

08-30-2008, 10:03 PM

A question from Sarah Palin - What does a VP do?? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gkPXSDtGQ)

Apparently, being VP is important someway, somehow . . . . . not too long ago, when there was talk of the possibility that Obama would select Governor Kaine of Virginia as his Vice President, Fox News correspondent Karl Rove said, ''With all due respect again to Governor Kaine, he's been a Governor for three years. He's been able, but undistinguished. I don't think people could really name a big, important thing that he's done ... [Kaine] was mayor of the 105th largest city in America. And again, with all due respect to Richmond, Virginia, it's smaller than Chula Vista, California; Aurora, Colorado; Mesa, or Gilbert, Arizona; North Las Vegas, or Henderson, Nevada. It's not a big town.'' . . . . Yet, Kaine is Governor of a state with 8 million compared to Palin with 600,000. And he was mayor of Richmond (200,000) compared to Palin being a mayor to Wasilla (6,000).

Interesting.

Alysser

08-30-2008, 10:14 PM

You are a Brit! Why should you be concerned about how we Americans vote or feel about our candidates? This is a free country we all have our separate opinions to the issues at hand & will vote accordingly when the time comes. May the best qualified black, white, male, female, democat, republican, WIN. Oh I love my country the U. S. A. Land of the free home of the brave!!!

And your point is? Maybe if Zara knew nothing on the subject in question, you could say something to her, but she obviously does. Who cares if she is british? Seriously, enlighten me. This is a public forum FOR PUBLIC opinions, excuse Zara for expressing her thoughts on a PUBLIC MESSAGE BOARD in a free country. :rolleyes:

rosethecopycat

08-30-2008, 10:23 PM

We could always see it President Camacho from the movie "Idiocracy" is interested in running again.

Now, he was a leader!

"Shut up, shut up and sit your monkeya** down. Chill out."

****Everyone needs to see this clip (contains adult language)******
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxJnf5tkfoo

Set a mere 500 years into the future, it's us, if we're not careful.

VOTE FOR: Camacho/NotSure for President of America!

Right on Richard. (Idiocracy is in my top movies of all time!)

IRescue452

08-30-2008, 10:55 PM

You people from other countries want to know why some people say to "fear" this woman? If the U.S. is how people define freedom, I'm moving to Cuba. The U.S. is the land where hate crimes are seen as a normal part of daily living and your side winning in each issue can mean the difference between whether or not you can sleep safely at night. Fear is a big part of why some people vote. Sometimes I feel like the religious wars in the middle east are more sedate and peaceful than the political wars in the U.S.

P.S., Note how I don't call the United States by the term "America". This is not America, America covers everything from Canada down to Argentina. Somewhere along the years the people of the U.S. lost their brain power and came to think of our country exclusively as "America". Everytime I hear somebody talk about doing something bad about illegals from Mexico and then in the same breath they say the phrase "God bless America" it makes me sick to think how idiotic they sound. Using the term America to denote the U.S. makes us sound like a bunch of uneducated morons.

kuhio98

08-30-2008, 11:33 PM

Two things I'm sure about ~ No matter who wins the next election....

Almost 50% of the US population will be disappointed

and

The US will survive

Luckily, no one person can hold office long enough to destroy the country.

If we only had 1 political party, we would have doomed ourselves long ago.

Karen

08-30-2008, 11:45 PM

Note how I don't call the United States by the term "America". This is not America, America covers everything from Canada down to Argentina.

In most senses, people use "The Americas" to refer to the continents, and America to refer to The United States of America. This does not make us ignorant. After all, we refer to ourselves as "Americans" - not as United Statesians. I am not saying that other residents of North America, South America and Central America aren't "American" in that they live in The Americas, but each country has its own designation for nationality.

RICHARD

08-31-2008, 12:07 AM

"Shut up, shut up and sit your monkeya** down. Chill out."

VOTE FOR: Camacho/NotSure for President of America!

Right on Richard. (Idiocracy is in my top movies of all time!)

I came in in the middle of the movie and was mildly offended. Then I had to watch the whole thing to find out why. Seems that I was laughing all the way through. It was very entertaining and a real statement as to how 'dumbed down' we will get in the next few years.

Gotta go, I got a BRAWNDO in the fridge.....;)

P.S., Note how I don't call the United States by the term "America". This is not America, America covers everything from Canada down to Argentina. Somewhere along the years the people of the U.S. lost their brain power and came to think of our country exclusively as "America".

Then explain this to me?:confused:

http://abc.go.com/primetime/uglybetty/index?pn=bios#t=actor&d=27065

RICHARD

08-31-2008, 01:18 AM

Record fish caught on toy rod

A man in the US has managed to catch and land a record-breaking catfish on a Barbie fishing rod just 2-and-a-half feet long.

David Hayes and his 3-year-old granddaughter Alyssa were angling in the pond behind his Wilkes County home when she asked him to hold her rod while she nipped to the loo.

"They hadn't no more than closed the door than the cat hit the cricket and took off," Mr Hayes told the Hickory Daily Record.

"He turned the water over and I saw his tail was about as wide as my two hands."

Alyssa returned to find her grandad battling with the monster fish.

"She said, 'Papa, you're going to break my rod,' because it was bent double," said Mr Hayes.

After 25 minutes, the pink plastic toy prevailed and Mr Hayes landed the 21 lbs,1oz catfish on the 6 lbs test line.

At 32 inches long, it was 2 inches longer than the rod.

A state fisheries biologist from North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission has certified the record, which was nearly three pounds over the previous mark.

-----------

I wonder if they make a Sarah Palin Signature Model?:confused:

Miss Z

08-31-2008, 04:34 AM

You people from other countries want to know why some people say to "fear" this woman? If the U.S. is how people define freedom, I'm moving to Cuba. The U.S. is the land where hate crimes are seen as a normal part of daily living and your side winning in each issue can mean the difference between whether or not you can sleep safely at night. Fear is a big part of why some people vote. Sometimes I feel like the religious wars in the middle east are more sedate and peaceful than the political wars in the U.S.

Thanks for your opinion on my question.

Whilst I very much enjoyed my recent visit to the USA and found 99.9% of the people very polite, accepting and friendly, there were certain things that caught my eye as being not quite right, in my view.

Not that I expected everything to be the way it is in the UK. Our people and government are far from perfect too. Just the way a few people phrased things, and things I noticed about some people made me think, "There really are still some boundaries here." I think the fear comment just reminded me of that.

Can't say I saw any 'hate crimes', but I am not a US resident so I wouldn't know. I did however watch a lot of coverage of the election, and saw that there is a surprising amount of mud slinging in that.

Obama, the biggest celebrity in the world? Hardly.

The majority of people I met were like the majority of people on PT, kind and curteous and non-prejudiced. I therefore have no doubt that 99.9% of Americans will vote fairly and intelligently.

moosmom

08-31-2008, 04:58 AM

Zara,

In my 55 years have never seen an election WITHOUT mud slinging. It's pathetic. It's like two kids, "nanner, nanner, nanner". That's why I don't discuss politics or religion for that matter. It just stirs up alot of dirt, gets people PO'd and causes arguments.

Stay strong, girl. You are far more mature in your years than some of the trolls on this board. That's why I like you so much!!!

RICHARD

08-31-2008, 09:31 AM

Thanks for your opinion on my question.

Whilst I very much enjoyed my recent visit to the USA and found 99.9% of the people very polite, accepting and friendly, there were certain things that caught my eye as being not quite right, in my view.

The majority of people I met were like the majority of people on PT, kind and curteous and non-prejudiced. I therefore have no doubt that 99.9% of Americans will vote fairly and intelligently.

Someone circulated a memorandum saying that you were coming-we had to be on our best behavior!;)

I hope you are correct in thinking we will vote intelligently.I only pray that is the case.:)

Catty1

08-31-2008, 09:37 AM

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/umedia/20080831/cp.971ac233fb53811b127fa198ae0b07ce

Bonny

08-31-2008, 09:44 AM

I do understand the Brit way of things I have a full blooded Brit sister in law. She was a full fledged republican until her son was sent to Iraq. Now she is has decided the war was wrong because her son was sent Iraq. He is a military career person & it was his time to serve. He did over seas service to get out of going to Iraq but it caught up to him eventually. You never know how you are going to be affected by world politics. My sister in law and her family survived the Blitz & decided they had enough & moved to the US after war II & became US citizens. Anyone at anytime is affected one way or another by the actions of everyone.

Edwina's Secretary

08-31-2008, 12:05 PM

Here are some positions Ms. Palin has taken:

- opposes abortion even in cases of rape or incest
- sued the federal government to have polar bears taken off the endangered species list
- has said creationism should be taught in schools
- advocated a constitutional ban on providing healthcare benefits to same -sex partners

Suki Wingy

08-31-2008, 03:37 PM

All are very strong reasons I should not vote for a ballot with her on it.

Edwina's Secretary

08-31-2008, 10:07 PM

Oh what a dilemma the Republicans have! Do they have a convention if New Orleans is under threat again???

Of course...drawing attention to NO reminds people of just how DREADFULLY the current administration dropped the ball the first time. But then again...it IS an excuse to Keep Boy George and Dead Shot Dick away from the convention.

So now McC is not going to the convention until later in the week if at all. What will he do to save NO?? Will he stick his finger in the levees to prevent them from breaking? Will he turn back the winds and cause them to return to Cuba to wreak more havoc there? Or will he just stand around trying to look presidential for the photo opts? Let me guess! He will have on either a windbreaker or be in rolled up shirt sleeves. Something very macho. A very concerned look on his face as some poor local points out the obvious to him...

Even Laura Bush and Cindy McCain have been taken off the speaking schedule. Need lots of fingers for those levees!

But here is my favorite quote from McC about the situation....

“This is a time when we have to do away with our party politics and we have to act as Americans,” uh...what were they acting as before? Brazilians?

sparks19

08-31-2008, 11:09 PM

I don't know... but if tragedy strikes New Orleans again... there better be fingers pointed at those who are truly responsible. Those levees should have been built up LONG before even Katrina... but NOOOOOOOOOOOO buildling a new sports stadium was more important *tsk tsk*

jazzcat

08-31-2008, 11:20 PM

Oh what a dilemma the Republicans have! Do they have a convention if New Orleans is under threat again???

Of course...drawing attention to NO reminds people of just how DREADFULLY the current administration dropped the ball the first time. But then again...it IS an excuse to Keep Boy George and Dead Shot Dick away from the convention.

So now McC is not going to the convention until later in the week if at all. What will he do to save NO?? Will he stick his finger in the levees to prevent them from breaking? Will he turn back the winds and cause them to return to Cuba to wreak more havoc there? Or will he just stand around trying to look presidential for the photo opts? Let me guess! He will have on either a windbreaker or be in rolled up shirt sleeves. Something very macho. A very concerned look on his face as some poor local points out the obvious to him...

Even Laura Bush and Cindy McCain have been taken off the speaking schedule. Need lots of fingers for those levees!

But here is my favorite quote from McC about the situation....

uh...what were they acting as before? Brazilians?
:confused:
Wow.

So I guess this means you will only buy the magazines with a cover of Obama in a windbreaker/rolled up shirt sleeves? I'm sure you'll have many to choose.

kuhio98

08-31-2008, 11:49 PM

Well, if you want to point fingers, you have to start with Mayor Ray Nagin and Governor Kathleen Blanco. They were onsite and dropped the ball.

Edwina's Secretary

08-31-2008, 11:53 PM

There is plenty of blame to go around. I just don't like to see ANY politician making hay out of the situation.

Lady's Human

09-01-2008, 12:23 AM

Karen

09-01-2008, 12:33 AM

Methinks ain't anybody gonna be making hay - mud, yes, sandbags, maybe. Hay floats - and gets moldy when wet.

I think that at this point, whatever else is in the news, good, bad, or otherwise, both campaigns will be all over it. I only hope the people who are about to be slammed the Gustav in the gulf Coast, and then Hanna on the Southeast coast will get some kind of help and benefit from the fuss the election season will add.

Edwina's Secretary

09-01-2008, 12:40 AM

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

If they went ahead with the convention as planned, Sara, you'd be the first or second person on this board complaining that the republicans were insensitive to the needs of LA by holding the convention as planned.

Which would you prefer?

Of course, you haven't said a damned word about the stories about Sen. Obama mobilizing his campaign staff to collect donations for New Orleans. That's not making hay?

Oops, sorry, it's okay for Sen. Obama, it's just Sen. McCain you don't want making hay out of it.:rolleyes:

Do me a favor and do not be so presumptive as to tell me what I will or will not do. I realize you pretty much know everything, but you do NOT know me.

And you might practice your reading. I said ANY politician. And I do think they should hold the convention. I do not see where a bunch of politicians will do any good standing around watching a hurricane.

Lady's Human

09-01-2008, 12:51 AM

For starters, in the last couple threads we've had discussions in, you're the one who needs to practice reading comprehension.

You said ANY politician, but you only complain about McCain making hay.........and say they should hold the convention as planned.

Why? So you can then go on and bash the President, the Governor of LA and others in the administration who were scheduled speakers for playing party politics while LA suffered?

RICHARD

09-01-2008, 01:34 AM

So I guess this means you will only buy the magazines with a cover of Obama in a windbreaker/rolled up shirt sleeves? I'm sure you'll have many to choose.

What about the screensavers, too?:confused:;)

-----------

I loved the way Nagin spoke down to the citizen's, "get your butts out"????

LOL, Had that been any other hack the people would have risen up and claimed some kind of hurt for being disrespected.

I also enjoyed the way that he put it on the people, "We can't protect you!" So, now he can blame everyone who didn't listen.

And seriously, what about BO making this one state his cause? What about the other 56 states?

Hearts and minds-because the votes will follow.

Oh, I forgot, he is the president!:eek::rolleyes:

Pam

09-01-2008, 06:58 AM

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

If they went ahead with the convention as planned, Sara, you'd be the first or second person on this board complaining that the republicans were insensitive to the needs of LA by holding the convention as planned.

Agree totally with you LH. Also, like Karen, I believe that both sides are going to be "all over this" ..... and I hope for the right reasons.

Bonny

09-01-2008, 08:18 AM

Slinging Mud! Watch Out! I think they will need an equal amount of Republicans & Democrats to stick their fingers in the levees. Maybe this time the hurricane will wash New Orleans out to sea. Humans are so dumb! Lets rebuild so we can get swamped & lose everything so we can start all over again. Dah! Head for high ground & build there. I don't feel sorry for anyone that can't learn the first time around.

Marigold2

09-01-2008, 10:22 AM

Apperently this woman thinks she is the moral police, she must have a private pipe line to God.
We might as well all move to Iraq if this is the way the US is turning. Teaching creationism in school:mad::mad::mad:
That's just insane. What about freedom of religon, which also means freedom from religon. Will we be burned at the stake if we don't agree.
I think she should tell Ellen that Porta can't have healthcare.
This woman is a danger to our freedom, and for all who are gay, for all who can't afford to raise a child or don't want to.

Here are some positions Ms. Palin has taken:

- opposes abortion even in cases of rape or incest
- sued the federal government to have polar bears taken off the endangered species list
- has said creationism should be taught in schools
- advocated a constitutional ban on providing healthcare benefits to same -sex partners

Lady's Human

09-01-2008, 10:52 AM

Gov Palin on teaching Creationism in schools:

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are appointed by the governor and confirmed by the Legislature.

"I won't have religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism," Palin said.

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html

Polar Bears have been discussed in another thread, the Polar Bear population is at it's highest point since record keeping began, yet they are still listed as endangered?

Doesn't make sense, and she was right to do what she did, IMHO.

Constitutional ban on benefits to same sex partners?

Yes, but as Governor vetoed a bill which would have denied those benefits as unconstitutional. In other words, a constructionist view of the Constitution.

rosethecopycat

09-01-2008, 12:06 PM

I loved the way Nagin spoke down to the citizen's, "get your butts out"????

I love the way this guy talks.

I'm changing my vote now to:

Camacho/Nagin

pomtzu

09-01-2008, 12:13 PM

Maybe this time the hurricane will wash New Orleans out to sea. I don't feel sorry for anyone that can't learn the first time around.

This was a rather flip comment to make. Would you think the same way if New Orleans had been your home for your entire life, and everything and everyone that meant anything to you was firmly rooted there???
And as far as not learning the first time around??? - how many wars have we been involved in?
But then - this being a Democracy - I suppose you're entitled to your opinion and your freedom to say what you think. Afterall - those wars helped you retain that freedom!

RICHARD

09-01-2008, 01:31 PM

About the polar bears and related "protected species"-

Eviro-mentalists always want to protect a species by cordoning off the areas where those animals/plants/ecosystems exist.

At times closing off those places can hurt the things that people try to protect.

Take you neighborhood and put up a fence in a radius of one mile. Nothing comes in or out. When you start to get hungry make do with what is in the area. Soon you'll see that it cannot be done.

The largest animals will take over, for a while. Because they are top o' the food chain they will dominate until the smaller prey are eliminated. Birth rates go up -no one to keep their numbers in check- until the land cannot support them. Nature reverses course, birth rates go down as well as the size of the larger animals. They die off because of lack of food, then the smaller animals-who were not part of the happy meals, start to overpopulate-and what does that do?

IT tosses the whole ball of wax out of kilter and defeats the reasons we wanted those areas kept pristine.

--------

IT's the same arguement about what is taught in school.

We only teach what WE want to the kids. THe biggest farce are the hot heads who think that a 'little god' in the curriculum will ruin the planet.
So what? The kids that have a problem with it are the same ones that are brought up to be intolerant slugs by their parents.

The same unyielding AHs who will take the country to task about the words "In God We Trust" on our currency. Again, IF IT BOTHERS YOU DON'T USE IT, write checks or go find a country where the bills have 8 zeroes after the ones!

Parents try to protect their kids from god in the classroom and our bills and coins but have no problems with a cable box with porn channels in their bedrooms, never bother to find out that biatches hoes and G's live inside their iPods and mp3s and that kids are having more sex and less babies because we have to give them classes on birth control!

We all want freedom of mind and speech until we hear an opposing view, then we shout that person down, exercising our right-and stomping the living crap out of theirs - to have an opinion.

IT really is time to get over our bad selves.

There are times I do wish we lived in China, Venezuela or Cuba. That way we would only have a few opinions and we wouldn't waste our time on stupid arguements like Bears, pregnancy and god.

Oh about Ellen and PORTIA, They can afford the best healthcare possible-
It's the poor gay couple that can't hire nannies, fly first class or live in houses that are worth more than the GNP of some nations, that need help.

That's another fallacy we have.
The F.N. morons like Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, Neil Young and Michael Moore can bash the U.S. and it's policies, but when we take them to task for what they say WE CAN'T USE OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

IT's oh-so-easy to abhor another person's beliefs or a government's stand on things until we look a little farther into our own world. Then we start making excuses.;)

----------------

RTCC,

I love that ticket. Can we keep the cabinet the same?;)

Edwina's Secretary

09-01-2008, 02:07 PM

Take you neighborhood and put up a fence in a radius of one mile. Nothing comes in or out. When you start to get hungry make do with what is in the area. Soon you'll see that it cannot be done.

Are you talking about the wall McC wants to put up on the border again?:D:rolleyes::D

Giselle

09-01-2008, 02:25 PM

Pam

09-01-2008, 03:11 PM

This was a rather flip comment to make. Would you think the same way if New Orleans had been your home for your entire life, and everything and everyone that meant anything to you was firmly rooted there???

I agree with you. That was an extremely insensitive thing to say. Should all of the people in California just relocate too due to the earthquake potential? Easier said than done. Until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes.....

These people deserve our prayers.

Bonny

09-01-2008, 03:23 PM

RICHARD

09-01-2008, 03:34 PM

Ooooh, Palin. Maybe teaching sex-ed would have been a good idea :rolleyes:

I'm sure you all heard, but if not...
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palin-backed-abstinence-education/

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/palins-release-statement-on-daughters-baby/

Oh please.

If I ever have a child I will have their genitals sewn up.
How many kids have their parents hammer the idea of waiting for their marriage to have sex? Is she the only woman who's daughter got knocked up when the parents were promoting abstinence?

I have to laugh at these stories-tell me a family who hasn't run into those problems? How many of my friends have kids who got knocked up before they were married, were underage?

I have a niece who got preggers while she wasn't married and in school.

Does that make my brother a bad parent?

MY mom has a saying that fit this scenario-
Who cares what anyone does, as long as they do not use my arse to do it!

When the next 'unplanned pregnancy' pops up in a household 'near' yours, remember the disdain you have for this woman.

One size fits all.

----------

Palin also smoked pot and was photographed in a t-shirt that said, "I may be broke, but I am not flat busted".

She partied and has breasts.

Again, she's probably more qualified that some women who are tee-totalers and flat chested?:rolleyes:

-------

Bonny,
Humans will never stop because there are wars.

pomtzu

09-01-2008, 03:57 PM

Does it make sense to spend Zillions of dollars of the tax payers money State & Federal to make the same mistakes over & over? That is what New Orleans is about zillions of dollars wasted! Lack of Common Sense!

Wars! They will never stop as long as there are humans.

Oh silly me!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes: Of course not. :rolleyes::rolleyes: What a lack of understanding of common sense I must have!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: If the taxpayer's money is used for a project such as this, then how will the government ever be able to continue to pay $800 for a toilet seat, $500 for a coffee maker, $400 for a monkey wrench, $100 for a hammer, etc, etc etc. And don't forget all the money that is given for grants to study such important issues as the "love life of an East Siberian clam" for example. :mad::mad:

sasvermont

09-01-2008, 04:17 PM

RICHARD

09-01-2008, 04:36 PM

And don't forget all the money that is given for grants to study such important issues as the "love life of an East Siberian clam" for example. :mad::mad:

Seafood porn isn't too bad. The last DVD I bought cost me 15 clams.:rolleyes:

--------------

Here's the deal.

We have to pay attention to the hacks who govern at local levels first.

The moron who is the mayor in Lost Angeles has many stupid pet projects, he also let the last two school heads run the school district into the ground.

I don't have kids, so why should I care about the schools?

It ticks me off when I see AHs like Antonio Villaraigosa get into office by talking a good game and using the fact that he is a Mexican to persuade the idiots to put him into office. That SOB is out of office next and I'll make sure that I'll vote for anyone who runs against him. (taking notes Barack?)

Not my first choice for El Jefe de El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de la Porciúncula (The Village of Our Lady, the Queen of the Angels of Porziuncola), but he's in charge, until the next bobo comes in.

Think globally, elect locally.:rolleyes:

lizbud

09-01-2008, 05:00 PM

kuhio98

09-01-2008, 05:08 PM

Sorry folks, not much has impressed me about Palin. I still think she is a poor choice by McCain....and she is becoming less impressive as the days go on.....I wouldn't want her for my VP or Pres.

Doesn't make me right. Just my opinion. :eek:

I really admire and respect her, but I'm still scratching my head over this choice. :confused:

Earlier in this thread, I said it could be a good choice because we're always saying that we want new blood or an outsider that will go and shake up Washington and the good 'ole boy club.

But, I'm reminded of Jimmy Carter. Now, I was too young to vote in those days, but I remember being so excited about this nice guy going to Washington. Well (in my opinion) it was a disaster. He couldn't get Congress to pass most of his proposals. None of them owed him any favors (I guess). They wouldn't work with him and he didn't have "clout" on his side to make it happen.

In my opinion, his political experience (as Govenor of Georgia) was no help whatsoever. Maybe it would be different if the "outsider" is the VP, I dunno.

It seems that the years after the Presidency, have been his most productive and successful.

Like I said, I'm still scratching my head over this choice.

Pam

09-01-2008, 07:10 PM

Seafood porn isn't too bad. The last DVD I bought cost me 15 clams.:rolleyes:

LOL! :D :D :D

Back to the original topic though. I just heard that he only ever spoke to her once before the announcement the other day. Talk about a snap decision. :confused: I would have rather seen him give her a cabinet position if he felt he had to put her somewhere. :confused:

Edwina's Secretary

09-01-2008, 07:47 PM

When the next 'unplanned pregnancy' pops up in a household 'near' yours, remember the disdain you have for this woman.

One size fits all.

Thank goodness! No more Brittany (or Brittany's sister) bashing then?:D:D:D

It is so delicious when the hypocrisy begins to flow!

Pam

09-01-2008, 07:58 PM

If Palen becomes too much of a liability to McCain I think it is possible that we could see her resign from the ticket. George McGovern in 1972 selected a running mate (Thomas Eagleton) whom it was later found out had undergone electroshock therapy for depression and he dismissed himself from the ticket. So you see strange things have happened and could still happen.

Edwina's Secretary

09-01-2008, 08:35 PM

Thank you Pam! My mother and I were having the same conversation and could NOT remember the names. I knew it was a guy from Missouri and the shock treatments....

Is it too late to call her???:D

RICHARD

09-01-2008, 08:35 PM

Hypocritical?

Hmmm,
I remember when the United States used napalm and killed thousands of people in Iraq.

If you think hypocrisy is delicious, have a serving of humility and a sip of owing up to dumb statements.

Bon apppetit.

Edwina's Secretary

09-01-2008, 08:37 PM

Lady's Human

09-01-2008, 08:51 PM

Sara, the US hasn't used napalm since Vietnam.

Napalm has killed no one in Iraq.

Bonny

09-01-2008, 09:45 PM

The late Seduam (sp?) Insane used nerve gas to kill a bunch of innocent Kurdish people that live or did live in northern Iraq.

Edwina's Secretary

09-01-2008, 09:52 PM

Sorry LH...I was being a smart aleck. I have no idea what R was talking about so I made a smart response.

I am sure I have been wrong about some things. I doubt...sorry I know...there is no one who gets into these passionate and political discussions who has not been wrong about some fact or other or maybe even a bunch of them. Again...including me. (and you:p)

But what I hope I have never been is a hypocrite. I hope I have not espoused one set of rules for one group of people and a different set of rules for another. Based on how I feel about those people.

I do not express my opinion on some rather personal things - even things about which I have very strong opinions. Those opinions are for my family. And my close friends.

But I cannot but help enjoy...when people who have been very vocal in judging all too human behavior find themselves on the other side now defending the same behavior.

I try very hard (and I am sure I do not always succeed!) not to get on a high horse about how others live their life. I do not care who someone sleeps with - if it is not me, my husband or a child - it is not my business to judge (okay...except for a little delicious gossip with my girlfriends!)

So when pontificators get tripped up...well sorry...it is a bit fun!

rosethecopycat

09-01-2008, 10:28 PM

RTCC,

I love that ticket. Can we keep the cabinet the same?;)

Yes, we'll definitely keep Ms. Fun Bags.

And now to elect:
Dwayne Ellesando Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho/Clarence Ray Nagin, Jr.

Slogan: It's got electrolytes....

Go to: 4:07 in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NlbhcCJlRg

Lady's Human

09-01-2008, 10:28 PM

On a side note......

Would someone please explain to me how peace protests inevitably turn violent?

Hypocracy anyone?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080901/D92U49RO0.html

I loved the peace protesters on Iceland.....

They came to our field site after breakfast, walked around with signs for about 2 hours, broke for a picnic lunch for 1 1/2-2 hours, then protested again for about 2 hours, and went home for dinner.

They even had pleasant chats with our gate guards.

Edwina's Secretary

09-01-2008, 10:54 PM

I loved the peace protesters on Iceland.....

They came to our field site after breakfast, walked around with signs for about 2 hours, broke for a picnic lunch for 1 1/2-2 hours, then protested again for about 2 hours, and went home for dinner.

They even had pleasant chats with our gate guards.

How delightfully....peaceful!:D

RICHARD

09-01-2008, 10:55 PM

Yes, we'll definitely keep Ms. Fun Bags.

And now to elect:
Dwayne Ellesando Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho/Clarence Ray Nagin, Jr.

Slogan: It's got electrolytes....

Oh, IT's even funnier in GERMAN! I am going to have to buy the DVD.

I think the slogan should be, "I like money!" LOLOLOLOL

Thanks!

LH,

I don't want to be a smartarse here but...

Peace protesters....
ANti -War protesters.....

The ANti-War protesters come out dressed as peace protesters then ruin it for everyone.:(

Another reason that I laugh when I see the cops club the crap outta them.

Act stupid? Get your rear kicked.

GO POLICE.

sparks19

09-02-2008, 12:53 AM

Apperently this woman thinks she is the moral police, she must have a private pipe line to God.
We might as well all move to Iraq if this is the way the US is turning. Teaching creationism in school:mad::mad::mad:
That's just insane. What about freedom of religon, which also means freedom from religon. Will we be burned at the stake if we don't agree.
I think she should tell Ellen that Porta can't have healthcare.
This woman is a danger to our freedom, and for all who are gay, for all who can't afford to raise a child or don't want to.

Well what about those who don't believe in Evolution.

should THAT be taught?

Some people don't believe in it and there is no scientific PROOF that that's what happened. but THAT seems to be OK.

that seems to be OK with those who don't believe in any faith or religion yet it doesn't matter how it affects those who DP believe in faith or religion. there is no PROOF... DON'T teach it... PERIOD. Any mention of evolution could be JUST as offensive to the faint of heart as creationism.

I'm sick of the God hating just becasue some don't believe in it... but if families don't want evolution taught they are to go ELSEWHERE to learn.

Lady's Human

09-02-2008, 12:58 AM

Again, Marigold, in her comments about creationism being taught in the classroom, it's clear that her point was not the it should be taught as part of the lesson, but that discussion should be allowed if it came up.

sparks19

09-02-2008, 01:09 AM

Interesting... Basing people on the actions of their teenagers. If their kids were out murdering people... OK. That's over the top.

But how many of you can HONESTLY say that you never caused your parents any gray hairs? You NEVER did wrong? YOu NEVER made any mistakes a a child/young adult. should your parents pay today for your mistakes when learning to become an adult?

I am adult enough to admit that my mistakes when i was old enough to know better (not talking infant/toddler)were NOT my parents fault. My parents did their BEST to teach me right from wrong. I wasn't allowed to just roam the streets, have boys sleep over, do drugs... etc etc. And I suspect none of you were allowed to either. But I will bet everything I have that you have made mistakes. do you believe your parents should pay for that?

Perhaps you do... makes me sad. I take full responsibility for my mistakes as a teen... and now my mom and I are best friends. I can't WAIT to talk to her on the phone everyday. I weep because she is so far away from me and I can't see her whenever I want to. she did the best she could without chaining me to the house. And while some may have issues with me... she has done a darn good job. I don't have a criminal record, I never got sent to the principals office, my only ride home in a police car was when I was out riding my bike when I was 16 and I hurt myself and couldn't get to a phone or anything and it was just my luck that a cop came by and pulled over to help me. Officer Noel... I will never forget him and the help he offered me. YOu may not like my views but i am a good person and I try to spread that to others in my daily life... SO... should my parents be crucified because I made some mistakes? should yours?

I am willing to bet that your parents did the best they could to raise you and yet you still went out as a teen and did things that you KNEW you shouldn't do... even the "small" things. Sorry but at 17.... your parents can't hold you under lock and key. It's just foolish to believe otherwise. People make mistakes.

Marigold2

09-02-2008, 09:00 AM

Not believe in Evolution? :eek::eek::eek: Why it's all around you. Every new rose bush, tomato, zinnia color, designer dog are all part of evolution. Weather man made or actually coming about on it's own it's all changing and evolving. We are taller now then 100 years ago. So we have evolved as well. Sometimes it's a seed being carried by a bird across the states and a new plant comes into being, having to adapt and adjust to a new climate. Evolution is a science, always changing, always growing as is our planet. Just look at how dogs and cats have changed because a human hand helped with breeding. Evolution you bet. All the millions of plants, birds, insects that evolved without us evening knowing. All the mystery in the ocean we can't understand, all these creatures evolved to their climates and conditions. Just as we have. Look at the pigmey people. Shorter, smaller because they don't have as much food as we do. We are not better then them, just different. They have adapted and evolved to survive that area.
Evolution also as far as I know does not start wars. It's a science. It is also not a moral issue unless you enter something like test tube babies into the mix.

As for teaching religon in school which one should we teach? Jewish, Budda, Hindu, Jevhovah Witness, Baptist, Lutheran? Should we eat meat on Friday?
Should we go by the Jewish calender? Not believe or teach that Jesus is our savior? When was the last time a Jewish person said to you "Hey you are praying to the wrong dude, he was just a carpenter and now I am going to make sure your child learns that in school"
Tell our children that giving blood to a dying child is a sin? Or do we go by the Catholic religon and not use birth control? So many options. Perhaps we should teach the Jewish religon on Friday, Catholic on Thursday, Budda on Monday.
Seperation of church and state is one of the most important and sane things this country stands for. We need to keep our moral views out of our neighbors lives.
School is not a place for any religon, it's a place to learn, grow and accept others regardless of what they believe at home. Otherwise we become another Iraq were we are told what to believe, how to live, how to pray.
This is America and no one has the right to tell any one how to pray. Nor if sex before marriage is correct, or how many kids to have (as long as you can afford them hopefully) or not to give blood.
Do I believe in God, oh yes, do I pray everyday oh yes. I also pray that others have that freedom and that it is not in vain to all those that died giving it to us.
Loving God, praying should never be something that is forced on anyone, we should not be told who to pray to, when, where or how. No how to live our lives, as long as we don't hurt others, what we do in our homes, our bedrooms, is no ones business.

Well what about those who don't believe in Evolution.

should THAT be taught?

Some people don't believe in it and there is no scientific PROOF that that's what happened. but THAT seems to be OK.

that seems to be OK with those who don't believe in any faith or religion yet it doesn't matter how it affects those who DP believe in faith or religion. there is no PROOF... DON'T teach it... PERIOD. Any mention of evolution could be JUST as offensive to the faint of heart as creationism.

I'm sick of the God hating just becasue some don't believe in it... but if families don't want evolution taught they are to go ELSEWHERE to learn.

Bonny

09-02-2008, 12:31 PM

but then not everyone. The other day I heard a cute little joke about God & why he/she decided to make humans he was bored watching the apes & monkeys. He/she decided to create more entertaining speices.:D

Miss Z

09-02-2008, 02:01 PM

In my schooling system, evolution is taught in biology.

All the six main religions are learned about in religious studies.

In BOTH subjects, the beliefs of theists and atheists are discussed. No shoving down throats, no abhorring one or the other.

Should this not be the way forward in ALL schools?

moosmom

09-02-2008, 02:39 PM

Palin being named McCain's running mate has made my decision who I'm voting for easy.

Palin has put a bounty of $150/head in the hunting of wolves in Alaska. She has also okayed the drilling of oil in her neck of the woods. She is a diehard NRA member (nothing wrong with that).

Our country is in total disarray because of global warming. The icebergs are melting fast and furiously causing a domino affect with the animals whose lives depend on those icebergs. The forests that the animals live are being ripped apart.

What will a woman with 5 children do if, God forbid, something happens to McCain who is 72 is, which I doubt, elected into office? Will she be able to run this country in his absence??? Don't think so. She doesn't have the experience.

VOTE OBAMA!!!!

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 03:34 PM

For starters, my apologies to all for my off the hook posts earlier in this thread. I let my passion get the best of me.

Palin has put a bounty of $150/head in the hunting of wolves in Alaska.

I gotta admit this one makes me scratch my head a little. But I want to know more than just the side of the story we have been told.

She has also okayed the drilling of oil in her neck of the woods.

So drilling on about 1000 acres of the extreme north slope, a barren wasteland, is a bad thing?

Our country is in total disarray because of global warming. The icebergs are melting fast and furiously causing a domino affect with the animals whose lives depend on those icebergs. The forests that the animals live are being ripped apart.

I first refer you to this article.

http://www.dailytech.com/Sun+Makes+History+First+Spotless+Month+in+a+Centur y/article12823.htm

I sadly do not have it handy, but I saw an article that had some pretty strong evidence that linked global temperature to the suns activity. I mean, that just makes sense. This is not to say that we should not be good stewards of our planet. I support, both with my money and my time, the activities of several organizations that probably do more to protect our environment than you would want to believe. The two biggest ones are the NRA and the National Wild Turkey Federation.

But I digress...

Surely our environment needs some TLC, but I do not subscribe to the sensational ideas you put forth. "Total Disarray?"

Ice Melting?

http://www.randomjottings.net/archives/003023.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0110/p14s01-sten.html

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=851

It seems the topic is still a matter of scientific debate.

FWIW, I pay a great deal of attention to the global warming debate. It matters to me because in the next year or so, my family is going to roll the dice and buy a sizeable farm in South Dakota. I am getting back to my roots and I am going to spend the rest of my days working the land. So this issue matters to me. Alot.

What will a woman with 5 children do if, God forbid, something happens to McCain who is 72 is, which I doubt, elected into office? Will she be able to run this country in his absence??? Don't think so. She doesn't have the experience.

Here is what I do not understand... This woman is everything the womens liberation types want all women to be. Yet, now she is being derided for it. Can one of you ladies explain how it is all of a sudden a BAD thing to be a working mother?

VOTE OBAMA!!!!

Because he is better than YOU! ;) LOL

Edwina's Secretary

09-02-2008, 03:41 PM

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 03:47 PM

Pam

09-02-2008, 03:48 PM

Perhaps I am not "with it" but isn't there some embarrassment involved in being a 17 year old unmarried and pregnant?

Aww c'mon Sara, even you know that isn't true. Back when I graduated high school (in 1964 :o ) we had two KNOWN pregnancies and who knows how many others went off somewhere to have their babies or to kill them. Even Obama took the high road on this, as I expected him too, by saying that his own mother was 18 when she had him. I am sure it was not convenient for her as a teen to have a bi-racial baby either back then. Think of the whole abortion situation that we have now. What if Obama's mother had chosen that route. Who would the Democrats have for a candidate now? :) Don't get me wrong - I think McCain really blew it with his selection but I applaud Palen's daughter for her decision to keep this baby!

sparks19

09-02-2008, 03:51 PM

Perhaps I am not "with it" but isn't there some embarrassment involved in being a 17 year old unmarried and pregnant?

I am surprised that a mother would subject her daughter to the incredible scrutiny - late night tv show jokes and everything else that goes with it by being selected as a candidate for vice president. In this circumstance I would think you would want to protect your daughter from that.

(And before anyone gets all uppity about making jokes about the children a.) I agree but b.) there is reality. Was it Rush Limbaugh who make the joke that the Clintons had a dog in the White House and then put up a photo of Chelsea??)

To be honest... teen pregnancies are becoming more and more common (or at least aren't hidden from the world) and carry less stigma as time goes on. Not saying I agree with teen pregnancy. But it's definitely not like it used to be. many of these girls attend school right up until the birth and in a lot of places this is a common sight to see. For some odd reason... some teens actually strive to acheive this.

It's not an ideal situation... but nothing to be embarassed about IMO. this is not a time to be embarassed.. this is a time to step up and handle your responsibility no matter what anyone says.

Edwina's Secretary

09-02-2008, 03:52 PM

caseysmom

09-02-2008, 03:54 PM

sparks19

09-02-2008, 03:55 PM

We must have gone to different schools Pam! I remember one girl who got pregnant in high school and she "went away". It was very hush-hush.

I still would want to spare my daughter the embarrassment.

So, I'm sorry, I didn't know there is no embarrassment to being an unwed mother at 17! A different world indeed!

it certainly is... we were just talking about this on another pet forum. How they wouldn't even show desi and Lucy sitting in bed as a married couple. My mom told me about how "Wake up little Susie" was banned from radio play because it implied that the girl and the guy spent the night together.

Now we have movies about teen pregnancy... bordering on comedies. songs talk about sex all the time, we have movies with full frontal nudity that are not considered pornography and it's not unusual to see teens caught in bed together on TV shows.

Very different world.

Pam

09-02-2008, 03:56 PM

We must have gone to different schools Pam! I remember one girl who got pregnant in high school and she "went away". It was very hush-hush.

I still would want to spare my daughter the embarrassment.

So, I'm sorry, I didn't know there is no embarrassment to being an unwed mother at 17! A different world indeed!

Yes, one of the girls that got pregnant in my high school was one of my very best friends! It totally blew me away. She carried the baby almost to the end of the school year and I remember many mornings seeing her head off to the ladies room with morning sickness. It was a hard time back then, but not now at all. As far as sparing embarrassment within one's family - when you decide to run for office your life becomes an open book. You either take the heat or get out of the kitchen. :p

Pam

09-02-2008, 03:57 PM

Obviously this is a bit of a scandal otherwise it wouldn't be all over the news even in this day and age. Especially when you have taken the moral high road. Do I think its anybodies business, heck no leave the kid alone.

It's sad that it is even an issue. I couldn't help but think as I watched some of the coverage that this was just childish pure and simple to even mention it. :rolleyes:

Lady's Human

09-02-2008, 04:00 PM

The story from Gloucester about the girls getting pregnant made news because it was a pact between several high school aged girls to purposefully get pregnant. The school administration supposedly knew about it, and the reason it made national media was because the school admins did nothing about it.

Teen pregnancy has and will always be around, what differs is in how it is handled.

There is an article in Time about how the residents of Wasalia, AK view the "problem", and in their view it's a) not a big deal, and b) none of anyone else's damned business.

caseysmom

09-02-2008, 04:01 PM

It's sad that it is even an issue. I couldn't help but think as I watched some of the coverage that this was just childish pure and simple to even mention it. :rolleyes:

Yes it is definetely below the belt I think children are off limits. I don't think this will hurt her at all, good for her supporting her daughter through thick and thin.

sparks19

09-02-2008, 04:01 PM

It's sad that it is even an issue. I couldn't help but think as I watched some of the coverage that this was just childish pure and simple to even mention it. :rolleyes:

I agree. this has so little to do with the election itself and the candidates policies etc etc why is it even mentioned?

it could be worse. She could be out running around doing drugs and get involved in criminal activities. So she had sex and got pregnant... it happens. and she is stepping up and taking responsibility and it sounds like the father of this child is doing the same.

pomtzu

09-02-2008, 04:10 PM

Here is what I do not understand... This woman is everything the womens liberation types want all women to be. Yet, now she is being derided for it. Can one of you ladies explain how it is all of a sudden a BAD thing to be a working mother?

I'm a lady and I don't think there is anything BAD about being a working mother - IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB!!! Sorry, but Obama will get my vote based on the selection of Palin by Mcain. I don't think there's anyone out there that hasn't given the thought to the idea that McCain stands a very good chance of not even being around long enough to complete a whole term. Then what???? I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want to take a chance on Palin - I'm just not a gambler. She may have many good qualities and abilities, but being the leader of this great country isn't one of them. Ten or fifteen years from now might be a different story.

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 04:22 PM

I'm a lady and I don't think there is anything BAD about being a working mother - IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB!!! Sorry, but Obama will get my vote based on the selection of Palin by Mcain. I don't think there's anyone out there that hasn't given the thought to the idea that McCain stands a very good chance of not even being around long enough to complete a whole term. Then what???? I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want to take a chance on Palin - I'm just not a gambler. She may have many good qualities and abilities, but being the leader of this great country isn't one of them. Ten or fifteen years from now might be a different story.

Fair enough. Still, the same could be said for Obama. I mean, he does not want to be a heartbeat away from being POTUS, he wants to BE the POTUS.

I am sure its been hashed out before, but at least Palin has some executive experience.

Than main reason I like Palin is because of her LESS government stance on things. More government = less freedom. You can be free or you can be "safe". I choose free. But that is just me I suppose.

Pam

09-02-2008, 04:29 PM

I am sure its been hashed out before, but at least Palin has some executive experience.

That is not enough for most of us. Last night I watched Larry King and he had on James Carville (who I have never cared for) and some others on his panel. I almost felt sorry for the McCain people trying to defend his selection. Carville hit them and hit them hard with some of his questions which they tried to not answer. What qualifications does she have to lead this nation with three wars ongoing at this time? I guess we are to assume that McCain will handle the wars and she will handle the economy. :rolleyes: Neither thought gives me great comfort. I think McCain has shot himself in the foot big time, but not because there is anything wrong with Ms. Palen. She is just the wrong gal for the job IMHO.

moosmom

09-02-2008, 04:42 PM

Sparks19,

Don't forget all the illegitimate "baby bumps" seen in the tabloids. Does Brad and Angelina ring a bell?? What kind of message does that send? It's pathetic. Here in CT, the more kids you have, the more welfare you get. Nice, huh?? Back in the late 60's we also had a girl that "went away". I ran into her a couple of years ago and she wound up marrying the guy who got her pregnant way years later.

I do applaud Palin for standing by her daughter. I'd do the same if it were my daughter. It has absolutely nothing to do with the campaign for President.

lizbud

09-02-2008, 04:49 PM

That is not enough for most of us. Last night I watched Larry King and he had on James Carville (who I have never cared for) and some others on his panel. I almost felt sorry for the McCain people trying to defend his selection. Carville hit them and hit them hard with some of his questions which they tried to not answer. What qualifications does she have to lead this nation with three wars ongoing at this time? I guess we are to assume that McCain will handle the wars and she will handle the economy. :rolleyes: Neither thought gives me great comfort. I think McCain has shot himself in the foot big time, but not because there is anything wrong with Ms. Palen. She is just the wrong gal for the job IMHO.

Scandals aside, I agree with you on this. :)

Any person considering a run for public office has to know their whole
life story is going to be public knowledge. Palin can't be surprised at the
hoopla over personal stories in the news.

Not many people outside Alaska even heard of Palin before this, so yeah,
expect to hear a lot more as more is known.

pomtzu

09-02-2008, 04:49 PM

You can be free or you can be "safe". I choose free.

The way I see it - we have both. Do you really think Palin has the ability and experience to keep it that way if she were put in the position where she had to? :(

RICHARD

09-02-2008, 05:01 PM

It's sad that it is even an issue. :

It cyclic!

It was an issue that needed to be 'taken care of''.
Then it became a non-issue for a while-Now it's back in the news again.

It's glamorized when it's a teen star and it's condemned when it's happens in a political family. SP's daughter isn't a political figure or media figure.

Anyway, you have to blame it on the schools for letting the boys swim in the same pool as the girls.:p

----------------------

Scientist just noted that the month of August was sunspot free.

For the first time since 1913 scientist noted that there was zero sunspot activity. Sunspots, which have an effect on weather patterns across the globe, increase the average global temp. No sunspots mean that the average temps will drop and may put the earth into 'mini ice ages'.

These lower temps shorten the seasons and make it hard to grow food crops.

Check it out.

Pam

09-02-2008, 05:17 PM

elizabethann

09-02-2008, 05:50 PM

I don't know about y'all, but I am looking forward to the VP Debates (more than I normally am). It will be a great debate.

pomtzu

09-02-2008, 05:51 PM

I also heard this morning (I think it was on Good Morning America) that Palen's husband had a DUI about 20 years ago. Now that is "up to date Breaking Headline News!" :p:p:rolleyes::rolleyes: Honestly, they are turning over every rock they can find to the point of being absolutely ridiculous!

I saw that too. Pathetic nit-picking!!! Who cares??? And what does it have to do with anything related to the v.p. position anyway!!!! About as much as her daugter's pregnancy I figure!

sasvermont

09-02-2008, 06:19 PM

I too am sick of all the airing of the dirty laundry. It does give you some insight in to what these folks have been doing over the past 20 years. I can honestly say that I have not gotten a DUI or had my daughter get pregnant at age 17.

My concern is........ that one would hope that our elected officials are a cut above the average citizen. I don't feel that Palin is a cut above at all. I don't think there are too many government officials in the cut above category, to tell you the truth. I have a feeling that "the cut above folks" don't run for office! We are stuck with the people who dare run. Then we get to hear about the short comings. And they seem to be endless.

I don't feel Palin represents my beliefs and/or standards. Just plain and simple. I don't want Palin or McCain, representing me or my country. I am not in love with Obama and/or Biden, just not embarrassed by them. I trust they will put the best people possible on the staff and in the cabinet and keep their noses clean. I like Michelle Obama and family. I don't know much about Biden's wife and/or his family.

It's a crap shoot for sure.

:eek:

moosmom

09-02-2008, 07:48 PM

but at least Palin has some executive experience.

Ya mean she can take dictation???:p Just kidding. I couldn't resist.

It seems every election has it's share of "skeletons" that seem to appear from nowhere. Politicians should expect to be under the microscope when running for office.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw naked parties!

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 08:57 PM

The way I see it - we have both. Do you really think Palin has the ability and experience to keep it that way if she were put in the position where she had to? :(

Pam, this is for you too. :)

OK, I guess I can best answer this question by giving you a little blurb about me and what I really believe in. Like a 50,000 ft level look.

I am a Libertarian at my core. But not as extreme as many people who are also Libertarians. I really believe in the American people. Deep down, I do not really think the majority of us are the kind of people who sit around and wait for others to do things for us. When push comes to shove, WE make it happen. Thus, for We The People to truly excel, we need the government to get OUT of our way, not in it more. Now, yes it is true that in many ways, this kind of thinking is harsh. Because in "my" world, when you buy a house that is out of your means and get evicted... Tough. Did not plan properly for your retirement and are broke? Tough! Hope your family or community can help you. Do not take this to mean I do not have compassion, because I do. I just KNOW at my core, that we are better than any of the nonsense FORCED on us by a government that is corrupt to its core and power MAD.

Thus, the primary reason I really like Sarah Palin. She is SO far outside the beltway. Also, I know that there is a grand difference between knowledge and wisdom. I feel that Palin is wise. Sure, she is not perfect, but who is? Also, I believe she is humble enough to realize that the most important part of being POTUS is surrounding yourself with good people. Good people who really will tell her she is wrong. Frankly, this is my number one issue with Obama. (Numbers two and three come in a sec....LOL) He just comes off as a know it all. "I can do this.... I will do that...." That is change? More promises that he cannot even come close to delivering, save from taxing us into submission?

Next, grouped in with my 3 main issues is the issue of the 2nd Amendment. The Amendment that protects all our other rights. It does not grant a right, it affirms a God given right. The right for ME to protect myself and my family from tyranny... Be that it comes from Washington DC or a home intruder. Clearly, Barack Obama is in no way a friend of the 2nd Amendment. Of course, he pays lip service to it, but his voting record is crystal clear. Sure, he is not so stupid as to go for an outright ban, he will just try to make it next to impossible, to buy firearms or ammunition. Wanna see the next revolution in the USA? Do that. Seriously. There are tens of millions of people who will NOT let that happen. Serious people who are not the "gun nuts" you think of. Sarah Palin is a lifetime NRA member. Nuff said.

And finally, the economy. Barack Obama is an out right marxist. What else to you call a proposal to TAKE money from oil companies and give it to people? If windfall profits were truly his issue, why not Google? Why not Microsoft? Why not AL GORE? All the things he proposes are going to cost a truckload of money. Where does it come from? His plan calls for increasing taxes on companies and cutting "middle class" taxes. That is not a tax cut, that is just swapping numbers around. Do you think that those tax increases will not find their way into the price of products? The Nanny State, telling you serfs how to live. Talk about fascism....

So yes, I really believe Sarah Palin has what it takes to be a great leader. She is not perfect, but she is a REAL change in the direction I want to see the country go.

I'll add, just for the record, I oppose her on the issues of abortion and on her stance on same sex issues. We can get into that if you like. LOL I'm here all week, try the fish. :)

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 09:01 PM

Ya mean she can take dictation???:p Just kidding. I couldn't resist.

It seems every election has it's share of "skeletons" that seem to appear from nowhere. Politicians should expect to be under the microscope when running for office.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw naked parties!

LOL, true enough.

As for your first sentence... Being Govenor of a state is not executive experience?

But you say the rest like she is whining about the coverage. I have not seen anything that has her complaining. Pundits, sure, but her directly? No. She seems like a tough woman, so I wish they would let her respond. I'd love to see what she has to say. Me thinks it would be the verbal version of flipping the bird. LOL

If you have something that has her complaing about the coverage directly, please share. I'd truly like to see it.

Grace

09-02-2008, 09:34 PM

Edwina's Secretary

09-02-2008, 09:38 PM

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 09:55 PM

Well, Puckstop, if I didn’t know better, I would think you are the man I married.

He is also a Libertarian. The best Presidential candidate he ever voted for was Harry Browne.

He says the current occupants of the White House should be tried for war crimes. One reason he does not tolerate McCain is McCain-Feingold. He agrees with your assessment of Obama. Unlike you though, he doesn’t think much of Palin because she is too socially conservative, and according to articles he’s read, her management style is to bully and demand political loyalty – sort of what we’ve had for far too many years. And she is running with McCain.

Douglas is a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter, another lifetime NRA member.

Well, well... LOL

I stop short of war crimes. Because as far as I know, it is not YET a crime to be stupid. You will get no arguement from me that the conflict was, especially in the inital aftermath, HORRIBLY mismanaged. Criminially so? Not so sure. Understand that I have real life, face to face exposure to the Islamic Extremeist. They are a threat. But this threat could have been dealt with in MUCH better ways.

Like I said, I am not 100% TOTAL hard core Libertarian. Mainly because I am a man of the Christian faith and I believe we need a differnt foreign policy than from what the Libertarians believe in.

A bully? I bet MEN wrote that. LOL ;) But like I said, she is not perfect, but INHO, much better than any other options.

Then, yes, she is running with McBush. Thats a tough one to swallow, but a little easier than the socialism of Obama.

Simply put, IMHO, she is the least of the evils and has the outside the beltway upside. Will it stop the nearly inevitable (again, IMHO) revolution? Doubtful. But ya never know.

I applaude him for his lifetime NRA membership. I am one also, I truly believe in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and the right for ALL humans to have the right to defend themselves from tyranny, no matter what form it takes.

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 09:59 PM

I agree that Palin's children (or any other candidates' children) should not be a factor in the election.

And, if it is true that parents cannot be held accountable for the actions of their teenage children, I assume we will not hear anything about Palin's son joining the military.

I agree.

With the caveat that she will easily be able to deflect the concept of, "you would not do this if YOUR son was in the military." Assuming she would be inthe position to take some sort of action.

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 10:03 PM

A article I found about the Palin "wolf cub" issue.

http://www.adn.com/wildlife/story/491012.html

Thoughts?

sparks19

09-02-2008, 10:12 PM

Nope... I don't think she should get credit for her son joining the military. He should receive the credit for that. My point about her being held responsible for her daughter getting pregnant was that I doubt she was egging her on and pushing for this to happen. I doubt she said "Come on honey... go and have sex and get pregnant. it's the right thing to do" I doubt it.

it was only ten years ago that I was that age and as much as some people would like to believe parents have total control.... at that age they don't. there is nothing a parent can do to stop their son or daughter from having sex if that is something the teen wants to do. short of chaining her to the house. We don't know that she didn't teach her daughter how to protect herself. People who use protection get pregnant all the time. it happens. Is it ideal? Nope.

the daughter and the boyfriend are stepping up to the responsibility. and their family is supporting them. What more could anyone want? the daughter made a mistake and she is prepared to take responsibility for it. I think that speaks volumes.

If palin had have thrown her daughter out and disowned her for getting pregnant... now THAT I would have a problem with. they are your children for better or for worse.

Like my Aunt Nancy says "Kids... sometimes all you can do is stand beside them and support them"

Puckstop31

09-02-2008, 10:15 PM

One more...

http://wcbstv.com/campaign08/joe.lieberman.republican.2.808783.html

"Punish" him for speaking his mind? Party is more important than policy? Party is more important that what you believe?

*Yeah, yeah... The R's do the same thing. That is not my point. My point is this is an example of why we need NEW blood. People who are not yet corrupted by the Washington DC mindset. Yeah. McCain is one of those guys... But Palin is not.

Suki Wingy

09-02-2008, 10:41 PM

A article I found about the Palin "wolf cub" issue.

http://www.adn.com/wildlife/story/491012.html

Thoughts?

I'd like to know a few more statistics before I can make any decisions about the article. Grey wolves actually survive most of the year on rodents. In the past, hunters have actually depleted caribou numbers due to over hunting, and blamed it on wolves. I don't know where the numbers are today on caribou and wolves, and really anything.

I don't like to make any decisions or develop an opinion really until I know all I can know on a subject. I hate it when others jump up too.

I actually finished my application at University of Alaska at Fairbanks for Wildlife Biology, but never sent it in because I don't know anyone from that area and I've never been anywhere near there.

rosethecopycat

09-02-2008, 11:08 PM

I am a Libertarian at my core. But not as extreme as many people who are also Libertarians. I really believe in the American people. Deep down, I do not really think the majority of us are the kind of people who sit around and wait for others to do things for us. When push comes to shove, WE make it happen. Thus, for We The People to truly excel, we need the government to get OUT of our way, not in it more.

Likewise. So am I.

Next, grouped in with my 3 main issues is the issue of the 2nd Amendment. The Amendment that protects all our other rights. It does not grant a right, it affirms a God given right. The right for ME to protect myself and my family from tyranny...

In the event of a home invasion, in FL, I can go to jail, protecting my cat's lives.

And finally, the economy. Barack Obama is an out right marxist. What else to you call a proposal to TAKE money from oil companies and give it to people?

It's called a seizure.
And Comrade Obama supports it.
I'd tell the oil companies to go ahead and blow themselves up before being seized.

Some people need to go ahead and read some Ayn Rand.

Grace

09-03-2008, 06:45 AM

This is the candidate my husband would like to win -
Ron Paul (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/02/paul.convention/index.html)

pomtzu

09-03-2008, 08:12 AM

Also, I believe she is humble enough to realize that the most important part of being POTUS is surrounding yourself with good people. Good people who really will tell her she is wrong.)

Interesting concept, but who does she choose? From all that I have been hearing and reading about her, all of her admirerers seem to think she is the ONLY "non-corrupt, outside the beltway" politician! So she has to choose insiders which puts this idea back to square one. :eek:

Puckstop31

09-03-2008, 08:30 AM

This is the candidate my husband would like to win -
Ron Paul (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/02/paul.convention/index.html)

I'd vote for him, if it were not for his foreign policy. Get out of Iraq? Sure thing. Remove ALL of our forces from any overseas basing? Not so much. Sorry Ron, but this is the 21st century.

Puckstop31

09-03-2008, 08:36 AM

Interesting concept, but who does she choose? From all that I have been hearing and reading about her, all of her admirerers seem to think she is the ONLY "non-corrupt, outside the beltway" politician! So she has to choose insiders which puts this idea back to square one. :eek:

LOL. I said GOOD people. They are out there. We just don't know them yet. Which to me, would strengthen the fact that they are good people. They want to stay out of the limelight.

She would not have to pick politicians either. In fact, I would hope she would not. A CLEAN sweep would be wonderful, eh?

Fear of the unknown is not a good reason to avoid taking a chance. The only way to overcome your fear is to face it head on and kicks its bum. LOL

pomtzu

09-03-2008, 09:40 AM

LOL. I said GOOD people. They are out there. We just don't know them yet. Which to me, would strengthen the fact that they are good people. They want to stay out of the limelight.

She would not have to pick politicians either. In fact, I would hope she would not. A CLEAN sweep would be wonderful, eh?

Fear of the unknown is not a good reason to avoid taking a chance. The only way to overcome your fear is to face it head on and kicks its bum. LOL

A clean sweep would hardly be practical or possible unfortunately.

So she chooses "good unknowns". Untried, inexperienced, unqualified - just like she is. Isn't that the very reason why the majority of the people don't feel that she is ready for this appointment? I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to "take a chance" with my freedom and safety nor that of my children and grandchildren who will still be here long after I'm gone!!!

This is a vicious circle - I'm getting dizzy!!!!! :eek:

Puckstop31

09-03-2008, 09:48 AM

A clean sweep would hardly be practical or possible unfortunately.

So she chooses "good unknowns". Untried, inexperienced, unqualified - just like she is. Isn't that the very reason why the majority of the people don't feel that she is ready for this appointment? I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to "take a chance" with my freedom and safety nor that of my children and grandchildren who will still be here long after I'm gone!!!

This is a vicious circle - I'm getting dizzy!!!!! :eek:

Untried? Inexperienced? How do you know? Just because a person does not have GOVERNMENT experience does not mean they are not unqualified.

Indeed, the founders never intended for there to be career politicians.

What would you define as qualified? Just curious.

As for taking a chance with your freedom and safety... You are only promised freedom here, not safety. And from what I read in this thread, I think we all have a varying definition of what freedom is. Further, what does the government have to do with your safety? Physical and Fiscal security should be the responsibility of the individual. IMHO, of course.

An interesting read.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122039919493892941.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries

pomtzu

09-03-2008, 10:24 AM

Further, what does the government have to do with your safety?

I am SHOCKED that you said that!!!!! If that's the case, then why the h3ll are troops in Iraq and dying over there every day?? Why did they get sent there in the first place? Have you forgotten about 911 already? Didn't the thousands of people that died a horrific death think that they were "safe"? Isn't it the aim of our government to protect this country and those that live here from any invasion by those out to destroy our freedom and safety? And 911 is only a single example! How many others are there??? - I couldn't even begin to count them! :mad::mad::mad:

Qualified?? - "competent and fitted as by training or experience". Plain and simple.

Grace

09-03-2008, 11:41 AM

I'm sure John McCain is basically a nice person; as is Sarah Palin.

The big problem I have with this ticket - they are endorsed by the current occupant of the White House. That is enough to drive me, and many of my friends, in another direction - any direction.

Pam

09-03-2008, 01:28 PM

This is the candidate my husband would like to win -
Ron Paul (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/02/paul.convention/index.html)

Most of the people in my family supported Ron Paul and I liked a lot of what he said. I just received this link from my brother, probably RP's biggest supporter. It's a shame that he has had to hold his own convention as opposed to having a say at the Republican Convention.

http://news.aol.com/elections/conventions/republicans/article/thousands-gather-for-ron-paul-rally/156573?icid=200100397x1208940596x1200508518

Logan

09-03-2008, 01:29 PM

I have been reading with interest since this post started. Thank you for the insight and entertainment.

I've decided that I love my pets the most. :) And I am a Republlican. I try to be open minded, but when it comes down to it, I am a Republican. Period. I know some of you are not surprised by that statement. LOL!!! :o I will always vote for the person, not the party. I even voted for Ernest Hollings in one SC Senate Race, so don't give up on me.

In the meantime, I will enjoy watching how this plays out. Economiically, I was probably more prosperous in my business life when Bill Clinton was in office than any other time in my adult life, up until this year. The Democrats have always been more favorable towards small business, especially the Small Business Administration, which is where I make my living, than Republicans. We'll see how this all pans out. I am keeping an open mind, but I do know that at heart, where my values are concentrated, I am a Republican.

Have fun and play nice. :)

Puckstop31

09-03-2008, 01:36 PM

I am SHOCKED that you said that!!!!! If that's the case, then why the h3ll are troops in Iraq and dying over there every day?? Why did they get sent there in the first place? Have you forgotten about 911 already? Didn't the thousands of people that died a horrific death think that they were "safe"? Isn't it the aim of our government to protect this country and those that live here from any invasion by those out to destroy our freedom and safety? And 911 is only a single example! How many others are there??? - I couldn't even begin to count them! :mad::mad::mad:

I misunderstood you, sorry. On that scale, certainly the government has a role. I thought your were talking about individual personal safety.

I have more to add, but I am short on time. :)

Qualified?? - "competent and fitted as by training or experience". Plain and simple.

That is still a relative thing. Can you be specific as to what a person must have/done/be for them to be qualified in your eyes?

catland

09-03-2008, 02:36 PM

I've only skimmed through this thread, so be patient if I'm repeating someone. I think the VP search team was told to find a very conservative evolutionist Christian. Also, doesn't hurt if there are some ovarys included.

First, yes, shades of Eagleton, as long as McCain doesn't back her "1000%", she might have a chance.:eek:

Second, sorry Murphy Brown, but it appears that Dan Quayle was right afterall. :(

If McCain keeps her through September I'll be surprised.

One of my favorite parts so far (this stuff is great, you couldn't make it up if you wrote for Northern Exposure), is with the abuse of power scandel (which isn't at all funny btw) which includes the allegations about the ex-brother in law which include "illegally shooting a moose".

pomtzu

09-03-2008, 03:19 PM

I misunderstood you, sorry. On that scale, certainly the government has a role. I thought your were talking about individual personal safety.

I have more to add, but I am short on time. :)

That is still a relative thing. Can you be specific as to what a person must have/done/be for them to be qualified in your eyes?

I don't know why you would think I was referring to my own personal safety, since this whole topic has been government - it's potential leaders - their ability/inability to govern, etc. I was making reference to the nation as a whole. I felt that was the issue - not me, me, and me.

Qualified? - I suppose I could go on and on, but I'm sure you're looking for specifics to pick apart and misconstrue. It's not my desire to make this thread a debate between the two of us, and I'm sure no one else really wants that either.

Yeah - I think I know exactly what you're thinking, but please don't even go there. NRN (no response necessary)

p.s.
And I am no big fan of Obama either. I just happen to think that all things considered, he is the lesser of the 2 evils.

RICHARD

09-03-2008, 03:34 PM

Some people need to go ahead and read some Ayn Rand.

You know, It's not nice to suggest reading material without giving people a starting point.;)

The Fountainhead? Atlas Shrugged? We the Living?

I'll dig out my copies start my assignment.:)

rosethecopycat

09-03-2008, 03:40 PM

You know, It's not nice to suggest reading material without giving people a starting point.;)

The Fountainhead? Atlas Shrugged? We the Living?

I'll dig out my copies start my assignment.:)

Atlas Shrugged hits more of the topic points discussed here, but a better starting point is Fountainhead.

From Idiocracy to Ayn Rand, I'm there with you R.

Pam

09-03-2008, 03:42 PM

Hubby had an interesting thought last night. He said McCain should have picked Colin Powell as his running mate. If McCain is looking to capture the female vote with SP maybe he could try and steal away some black votes from Obama. :p :rolleyes: Honestly, it is strange to even contemplate how these men come up with their selections. I am sure that Colin Powell has had enough of the political scene. Maybe he was asked and turn it down anyway.

caseysmom

09-03-2008, 03:57 PM

Puckstop31

09-03-2008, 04:12 PM

I don't know why you would think I was referring to my own personal safety, since this whole topic has been government - it's potential leaders - their ability/inability to govern, etc. I was making reference to the nation as a whole. I felt that was the issue - not me, me, and me.

I wrote the first responce in a hurry. Did not read it well or think it through. Sorry.

Palin - Little to no foreign policy experience. Bottom of ticket. But she will have good people around her. She will learn. Also, she has not said, at least that I have seen, anything about what her foreign policy might be like.

Obama - Little to no foreign policy experience. Top of ticket. But her will have some decent people around him. So he will learn. However, Obama HAS defined what some of his foreign policy might be like and it worries me a little. He plans to try to negotiate with countries like Iran. As long as Iran is ruled by people who prefer a system of government that is suited to the 8th century... His foreign policy just comes off as a little naive to me.

What is worse?

Qualified? - I suppose I could go on and on, but I'm sure you're looking for specifics to pick apart and misconstrue. It's not my desire to make this thread a debate between the two of us, and I'm sure no one else really wants that either.

I am sorry that I have made you feel this way. I really am not looking to pick apart or misconstrue anything you might have to say here.

Yeah - I think I know exactly what you're thinking, but please don't even go there. NRN (no response necessary)

p.s.
And I am no big fan of Obama either. I just happen to think that all things considered, he is the lesser of the 2 evils.

:D I think that what you were thinking I was thinking is wrong. (Say THAT 3 times fast, LOL)

The Puckstop31 that started this thread is gone. I made my apology for saying some boneheaded things earlier. FWIW, I am enjoying this back and forth with you and the others. This election is going to be an important one and it is good for We The People to talk about it.

Puckstop31

09-03-2008, 04:13 PM

Better yet condoleeza rice I think she would have been a great pick.

I agree. Talk about foreign policy experience!!!

RICHARD

09-03-2008, 04:55 PM

Atlas Shrugged hits more of the topic points discussed here, but a better starting point is Fountainhead.

From Idiocracy to Ayn Rand, I'm there with you R.

After XX many years, the opening 'scene' of the FH sticks in my mind. I was at the old swimming hole in my mind.

I suspect the only reason you is with me is you like money, and I have electrolytes.

Did you know that Georgia is part of Florida?:o

--------------

With all the supposition about who shoulda picked who to run with, it's interesting to see how we all think the 'also rans' would stack up with the candidates. I do think that there were many thoughts as to who would be the best VP pick but I think that the media, parties and voters are too hung up on
the "four more years of" idea.

I don't know if there is a Magic 8 ball, tarot cards or ouija board at work here.
We really can't tell what is going happen should either one be elected. The basic idea of an election is to promise the shiat out of your run, then go back on them when you hit the driveway and Rose Garden.

Way back when, was it the elder Bush?, made the promis of no new taxes.
"READ MY LIPS, NO NEW TAXES"
When ever I hear that phrase I grab my lips with my hands and move them around because there is no way that I can imagine anyone making a statement like that without some kind of external help. Of course, we can't know where those promises came from, he had his pants up.

Ergo,
When I hear any politico speak with his pants up or her skirt coveing their rear ends, I am not assured that they are telling me the truth.

Picking a president, VP or party is relatively easy.

Don't go by color, creed or what THEY believe. Measure it out by what you believe, what you want and what you hope for yourself, family and country.

Match them up and you have a winner.

Do I really care about who divorced who? Who's pregnant and which star supports who?

No, I do care about character and how they spin a story. If they come out sheepishly and say, "I screwed up..." Good. If they talk thru the seat of a 1,200 dollar pair of suit pants, I can't get behind them. You end up with a smell in the air that you just can't stand and they do not have the couth to excuse themselves. If you do not acknowledge things, they didn't happen.

----------------

Like my Aunt Nancy says "Kids... sometimes all you can do is stand beside them and support them"

I like Aunt Nancy.:)

PS31,

About qualifications?

Here is the way that I look at the race.

I own a multi million dollar business. I have to hire a manager/president to run it.

Do I put a numbskull in to get OJT? Or do I settle for a numbskull that has a bit more life experience and I feel that I can trust?

The people of the U.S. have this idea regarding lesser evils, parties, four more years, charisma and believing promises from men and women who will lie to you and I to get a job.

Treat it like a job interview, after all we do own the 'company' and I'll be dipped if I will give the job, and my country, away.

Pam

09-03-2008, 10:30 PM

The Puckstop31 that started this thread is gone. I made my apology for saying some boneheaded things earlier. FWIW, I am enjoying this back and forth with you and the others. This election is going to be an important one and it is good for We The People to talk about it.

It takes a big man to write that. I too owe you an apology. I think Gov. Palin has changed many minds tonight and you were one of the early ones to adopt a wait and see attitude. CNN said she "hit it out of the park" tonight and I have to agree. We'll have to see how this thing plays out. Never a dull moment with this election. ;)

Jessika

09-03-2008, 10:42 PM

I think too many people are concerned with electing the "lesser of two evils". That isn't how it should be!! We have the ability to write down anyone on the ballot, we don't HAVE to vote for Obama, or McCain, heck you could write in Mickey Mouse's name on the ballot if you wanted to! If you think it comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils, or voting for someone only because you don't want the other person in office, then look around at other politicians, who DO you agree with? Write them in, do something!

I personally am NOT a fan of Obama, and I'm really not a big fan of McCain either, but I really like Palin.

Puckstop31

09-03-2008, 10:49 PM

:)

Thanks Pam. Now, PM Edwinas Secretary and all the others who put me on their ignore list. Tell them to take me off so we can have honest discussion. LOL My passion gets the best of me at times.

I don't know if she hit it out of the park... But it was a stand up triple for sure. I only wish she would have told us more about her self and talked LESS about BO. Personally, if you watched this speech with an open mind, the issue of who is more experienced has been put to bed. Also, I need to dig a little more on BO's voting record. 130 "Present" votes while in the Illinois Legislature? Hmmmmmmm..... Can he really handle the "3am call" on his own??? What really qualifies him to lead? What has he lead? What is his definition of leadership?

I want to sleep on it and digest it a bit more... Can't wait to get back at it tomorrow.

G'night. LOL

sparks19

09-03-2008, 10:59 PM

I must say I really enjoyed listening to her speak.

I too wish it was less about Obama... the whole night not just her. I really liked the part when Rudy said about how it was unbelievable that her abilities as a mother and whether or not she would have time to take care of 5 children if she got the VP. NEVER have they EVER or WOULD they ever ask a man that. couldn't that be said about any candidate with children who aren't adults already? Seems a little biased and borderline sexist. She has a husband and I'm sure he's very capable of taking care of the children too. I know my husband can be totally trusted with our daughter and I would feel comfortable if him and I switched "jobs" and he became a stay at home dad and I went to work.

But I think I have TWO favourite parts. One is funny and the other serious. First of all I loved how she talked about how she said "no thank you" to congress when they wanted to fund the bridge building and said that if they wanted that bridge they would build it themselves. I am REALLY on board with "the American people can do it without government" idea. the funny one... I loved the hockey mom joke lol. "What's the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull? Lipstick" LOL wonderful and very true. I am not a hockey mom... YET. but I am a hockey aunt, a hockey sister, a hockey wife and just an all around hockey fan and THAT is true lol. We are sweet and cuddly most of the time... but mess with one of our own and you are dead meat LOL.

shais_mom

09-03-2008, 11:00 PM

I normally stay outta the dog house but in order to educate myself I read this thread in its entireity. I'm not sure I'm more educated or not.
I think that its going to be a tough call.
I'm not entirely sure some areas of this country are ready to welcome an African American man (qualified or not) as President. Those same areas of the country probably aren't ready to see a woman as VP either.
Her family's decisions and life choices just like the other canidates shouldn't be brought to the table. There isn't a parent of a teenager out there that agrees with all of the decisions their kids make. There are several parents on this board alone that I can name that would DISagree with their kids decisions. Mrs. Palin is no different.
A lot of areas I agree with her - a lot I don't - just like everyone else - there isn't one candidate that I would agree with completely I'm sure. But I'm sure a LOT of people are going to relate to Mrs. Palin with a child in Iraq, a pregnant teenager and a baby with Down's Syndrome. right or wrong - I think that is going to be the way it is.

shais_mom

09-03-2008, 11:37 PM

RICHARD

09-04-2008, 12:04 AM

Shai,

OF course you got something out of this thread.

It makes you want to find out more about the election.

I had to laugh about the ideas where people won't vote for XXXXX because they DO/DON'T --------

When we pick friend, GF or BF we are more than likely to forgive the fact that they snore, don't dance, don't pull down the toilet seat, hog the remote, gossip, drive too fast or ????????

We are so much more tolerant about someone we live/associate with, but we get to be so intolerant about some sap that will never ever come to your house and ask you, "What's the matter, friend?"

I like the fact that people say, "I'll vote for the lesser of two evils" -Ever try to look at what makes a person shine? I like the fact that BO is a trailblazer for the Dems. It takes a concerted effort to run for President. After that, when I scratch his surface? Nope, He doesn't show me anything. His pomposity and slickness make me wonder about who he really is. His wife gives me the heebee jeebies-talk about hard looking woman/eyes. She's a career hardarse. THat is a soul-less vessel right there. BO does have the gift of gab.

But I don't read no goobledy-gook, Boyee!!!!

I am sorry, but I can't support anyone that I can't believe in.

JM? He's like the old uncle that lives down the street. You know he's related to you and he fought in a war and then?????? You kinda know about what he is about because he's been there so long you can ignore him.

The lesser of two evils? Probably, but he's an evil you know and know where he lives!

Keep thinking and don't believe anything you see.

Feel it and know what it does.

Pam

09-04-2008, 06:33 AM

When we pick friend, GF or BF we are more than likely to forgive the fact that they snore, don't dance, don't pull down the toilet seat, hog the remote, gossip, drive too fast or ????????

LOL! Richard you take this thread in many directions and I just had to tell you that this comment hit very close to home. My hubby does all of the above except gossip. Do you have wires hidden in my house? :D:D

Staci, I am glad you joined in the discussion. You make many good points as most of the people in this thread have. Just ignore the ones that are rude. I think that is why this thread has remained so civil and interesting. It's going to be a wild ride folks. 60+ days and counting! :)

pomtzu

09-04-2008, 07:02 AM

I wrote the first responce in a hurry. Did not read it well or think it through. Sorry.

The Puckstop31 that started this thread is gone. I made my apology for saying some boneheaded things earlier. FWIW, I am enjoying this back and forth with you and the others. This election is going to be an important one and it is good for We The People to talk about it.

Thank you, but an apology wasn't expected or necessary. Afterall - this is the Dog House! I guess maybe you're not as big a jerk as I thought you were afterall!!! :D:D LOL

It's just that you struck a nerve on the issue of government and security, and of course 9/11 is a prime example. The images of that day are burned forever in my mind and I'll never be able to get rid of them. I pray that no one will ever have to experience anything like that again.

As to those that pointed out our liberty to "write in" a candidate rather than choose the lesser of 2 evils - that's like flushing good money down the toilet - IMO of course. I hardly think my write in for Kinky Friedman will change the overall outcome of the election!!! :(

lizbud

09-04-2008, 09:28 AM

A lot of areas I agree with her - a lot I don't - just like everyone else - there isn't one candidate that I would agree with completely I'm sure. But I'm sure a LOT of people are going to relate to Mrs. Palin with a child in Iraq, a pregnant teenager and a baby with Down's Syndrome. right or wrong - I think that is going to be the way it is.

Sen Biden's son Beau is a Captain in the Delaware National Guard and
his unit has been called up. He leaves for Iraq in October. I'm pretty sure
Biden could make a big deal out of this by speaking publicly about his son
and Military service, but he doesn't.

shais_mom

09-04-2008, 11:07 AM

Sen Biden's son Beau is a Captain in the Delaware National Guard and
his unit has been called up. He leaves for Iraq in October. I'm pretty sure
Biden could make a big deal out of this by speaking publicly about his son
and Military service, but he doesn't.

From what I've seen - and my experience/exposure is limited. I haven't watched any of the debates, Gov. Palin isn't making a big deal out of it either. Its the bane of our existence the media.

I am not politically passionate about anything, which is why I usually stay out of the dog house, b/c I can't contribute much. But the one thing that makes my blood boil, is when people (including people here) especially celebs like Alec Baldwin etc say, like they did the last election, if Bush got President again, they were moving to Canada or TimBukTu. And shock of life, they haven't gone anywhere, imagine that. B/c if they move to another country no one gives a rat's arse about WHO they are and they can't throw around their name along with their political aspirations.
blech - leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

catland

09-04-2008, 02:41 PM

IF we elect someone soley on their personal life and whether or not they have a teenage pregnant daughter, then we get what we deserve. (btw - my mom is a hockey mom of five kids, and thankfully she is nothing like this woman)

No matter your politics, history is being made, making this a very exciting election. McCain's selection of a woman was a brilliantly played chess move - I just wish he had found a different woman, and not someone who comes with her own special prosecutor.

Her politics disturb me. Creationism belongs in the church and not in the schools (unless someone wants to teach a course in comparative religions and discuss several creation theories and myths).

RICHARD

09-04-2008, 02:42 PM

LOL! Richard you take this thread in many directions and I just had to tell you that this comment hit very close to home. My hubby does all of the above except gossip. Do you have wires hidden in my house? :D:D

OH, you are ratting out you hubby for his foibles and WHICH anniversary is coming up?;)

BTW, it's a camera and I won't tell you what he does when you are out of the room.:rolleyes:;)

For me it's 'good dicussion' time. When I'd get stuck in a problem or friendly arguement I always tried to put it into a simple frame of reference.

It softens the passion in the idea and makes you realize that it's the same situation, without the harsh points.

------------

Two men walked into the bathroom. As the first one approached the urinal he noticed a five dollar bill at the bottom, he stopped and reached for his wallet.

The second man asked him what he was doing. The first one pointed and said, "Look! There's a fiver in the urinal!" with that,he reached into the wallet, pulled out a 20 and threw it down next to the other bill.

He squatted down and pulled both from the water at the bottom of the fixture.

The second man recoiled in horror and said, "Why did you do THAT?"

The first man, holding the wet bills by the corner answered, "Do you think I'd stick my hand down there for just a five dollar bill?"

You can put money into the toilet, just don't pull the handle?:confused:

----------------

Biden is a very modest man.

I don't think that he'll mention his time in the service. Patriots never brag.

Pam

09-04-2008, 03:55 PM

Sen Biden's son Beau is a Captain in the Delaware National Guard and
his unit has been called up. He leaves for Iraq in October. I'm pretty sure
Biden could make a big deal out of this by speaking publicly about his son
and Military service, but he doesn't.

It has been mentioned and even his son mentioned it at the Democratic Convention when he said he will be away at the time of the election and went on to explain. I think anyone heading to war is to be commended and it doesn't bother me if they mention it. God bless the troops - ALL of them! I think anyone who watched Biden's speech saw that he and his family are very close and his son is one special man. ;) Let's hope that ALL of our people can come home very soon and stop counting how many times military service is mentioned.

shais_mom

09-04-2008, 05:54 PM

It has been mentioned and even his son mentioned it at the Democratic Convention when he said he will be away at the time of the election and went on to explain. I think anyone heading to war is to be commended and it doesn't bother me if they mention it. God bless the troops - ALL of them! I think anyone who watched Biden's speech saw that he and his family are very close and his son is one special man. ;) Let's hope that ALL of our people can come home very soon and stop counting how many times military service is mentioned.

well said!

cassiesmom

09-04-2008, 08:21 PM

Before I heard her speak, I was one of many people going, McCain picked who? I was hoping he would have chosen Mitt Romney. I work in a union-organized office where there are a lot of Obama fans. I'm still not sure who to vote for. McCain was looking a little old last night. Palin's point about Obama having written two memoirs, but no major legislation is an interesting one. He hasn't been in the Senate that long and our other senator (Durbin, also a Democrat) has some long coat tails for Obama to latch on to. I just want someone who can get us out of Iraq quickly and without a lot more young soldiers dying or being injured, figure out how to get us off of foreign oil, and improve health care.

JenBKR

09-04-2008, 08:28 PM

I just want someone who can get us out of Iraq quickly and without a lot more young soldiers dying or being injured, figure out how to get us off of foreign oil, and improve health care.

AMEN! That's exactly what I would like to see.....but who will get that done? I'm honestly not sure, not at all.......

caseysmom

09-04-2008, 08:52 PM

I am enjoying Cindy's speech very much I like her better than Sarah.

Jessika

09-04-2008, 08:56 PM

I was hoping he would have chosen Mitt Romney.
Hubby and I are HUGE Romney fans. If this election doesn't go in a desirable route I'm thinking of writing him in on my ballot.

Grace

09-04-2008, 09:59 PM

Just read this over at CNN -

Barack Obama's campaign for president has raised $10 million since Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin spoke Wednesday night, the campaign announced, calling it a "one-day record."

Palin, the governor of Alaska, launched harsh attacks on Obama, accusing him of being two-faced and a political lightweight with no significant legislative accomplishments.

"Coverage of the Palin attacks on the news this evening just pushed us over $10 million," Obama spokeswoman Jen Psaki said in an e-mail to reporters Wednesday night.

The Republican Party announced earlier in the day it had raised $1 million in the wake of Palin's speech.

Puckstop31

09-04-2008, 10:29 PM

Just read this over at CNN -

What is that saying about a fool and their money? ;)

Grace

09-04-2008, 10:39 PM

What is that saying about a fool and their money? ;)

So, are you calling me a fool?

Puckstop31

09-04-2008, 11:00 PM

So, are you calling me a fool?

For donating money to a political campaign?

Errr... I plead the 5th.

I see it akin to paying the idiot tax. (AKA, the lottery.)

These are just my opinions of course.

rosethecopycat

09-05-2008, 07:21 AM

Pam

09-05-2008, 07:26 AM

For donating money to a political campaign?

Errr... I plead the 5th.

I see it akin to paying the idiot tax. (AKA, the lottery.)

These are just my opinions of course.

Count me in as another one who has never given a thin dime to a political party and who has no intentions to do so in the future. My son contributed to Ron Paul's campaign so I guess the apple sometimes does fall far from the tree. ;)

Puckstop31

09-05-2008, 08:15 AM

Barack Obama's campaign for president has raised $10 million since Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin spoke Wednesday night, the campaign announced, calling it a "one-day record."

That spells Dem fear to me. They are worried now.

There is the fear factor... But then there is...

A.) Political Ads annoy me and it is what most of that money is spent on. These ads cater to the lowest common denominator. The voter who can be swayed by a 30 second sound bite. Sad, eh?

B.) I thought the Democratic party was the party of the 'common' man. The 'common' folks have enough money in this (according to the Dems), 'terrible economy' to donate 10 MILLION dollars in one day? Or could it be they are taking money from George Soros type 537 organizations? Or even, *shudder* EVIL corporations?

Whatever... LOL Then there was that line from BO, bragging about how much money he has spent so far... Yeah, not so sure that is something a POTUS candidate should brag about, eh? LOL

Pam

09-05-2008, 08:24 AM

A.) Political Ads annoy me and it is what most of that money is spent on. These ads cater to the lowest common denominator. The voter who can be swayed by a 30 second sound bite. Sad, eh?

Oh boy are you right. Yesterday I spent two hours in the car on a round-trip to see my mom. In that two hour period Obama came on the radio with the same ad 4 times and it made me angry more than anything. A nurse practitioner is the speaker in the ad and she says that McCain's view on abortion will cause pain and possible death to women. HOW ABOUT THE FETUS?? The woman does have a choice. Sorry for being so graphic, but she can choose a "coat hanger" or choose to have the baby and give it up for adoption. Should she die from her own attempt at aborting the baby she has brought it upon herself. The baby has no choice at all. If I hear this ad again I will scream! Oh and my "friend" Nancy Pelosi (thank you for the spelling correction Liz) sees nothing wrong with partial birth abortion. How absolutely evil and barbaric! :mad:

Grace

09-05-2008, 11:37 AM

Political Ads annoy me and it is what most of that money is spent on.

They drive me crazy - especially the robo calls. We got one on Sunday afternoon, from McCain. Give him credit, when I called back the number listed on our caller ID, we were offered a choice - push button #1 and our number would be placed on their do-no-call list.

One down, hopefully none to go.

After the last election I spent lots of time trying to get our names, addresses and phone number removed from the databases of both political parties. So far it appears that only the Democrats got the message.

Grace

09-05-2008, 11:38 AM

For donating money to a political campaign?

Errr... I plead the 5th.

I see it akin to paying the idiot tax. (AKA, the lottery.)

These are just my opinions of course.

FYI, I have never donated to any political party. Now my husband is a different matter. He is a regular supporter of the Libertarians.

Grace

09-05-2008, 11:42 AM

Memo to Sarah Palin -

Jesus was a community organizer,
Pontius Pilate was a governor.

GHWB was referring to community organizers/workers in his Thousand Points of Light speech all those years.

Without community organizers, this country would be in much worse condition than it currently is.

sparks19

09-05-2008, 12:37 PM

They drive me crazy - especially the robo calls. We got one on Sunday afternoon, from McCain. Give him credit, when I called back the number listed on our caller ID, we were offered a choice - push button #1 and our number would be placed on their do-no-call list.

One down, hopefully none to go.

After the last election I spent lots of time trying to get our names, addresses and phone number removed from the databases of both political parties. So far it appears that only the Democrats got the message.

We dont' receive any calls from anyone. I wonder if it's because we have Vonage and the numbers aren't listed anywhere like the phone book or 411 unless we actually register it ourselves.

Makes me happy LOL at least that's one less place I have to be bombarded by it lol

RICHARD

09-05-2008, 01:34 PM

Jesus was a community organizer,

And he got some scars to prove it.

I think that BO is a lawyer first. LOL, I tend to see politicians as homeless people. They sit around with their hands out, living in government subsidized homes and taking free meals from people who think they are helping them.
--------

LOL, I love the pomposity attached to a statement like that.

"I know, let's say we got 10 million dollars on one day".

"I LIKE MONEY" - Frito Pendejo/Idiocracy.

As my math teachers would say. Show your work. Politicos don't work, they panhandle.

In the years past I have sent Monopoly money to the candidates.

I have to sit down and write an I.O.U. to Obama. McCain will get my Monopoly money this time.

Grace

09-05-2008, 02:04 PM

We dont' receive any calls from anyone. I wonder if it's because we have Vonage and the numbers aren't listed anywhere like the phone book or 411 unless we actually register it ourselves.

Makes me happy LOL at least that's one less place I have to be bombarded by it lol

I think your Vonage is keeping you from receiving junk calls. I would seriously think about doing that or using my cell phone exclusively. However, we live at the bottom of a hill in the country, and it's difficult to get a cell down here. Our IP isn't the most reliable - and I would hate to be stuck without any phone.

sparks19

09-05-2008, 02:24 PM

I think your Vonage is keeping you from receiving junk calls. I would seriously think about doing that or using my cell phone exclusively. However, we live at the bottom of a hill in the country, and it's difficult to get a cell down here. Our IP isn't the most reliable - and I would hate to be stuck without any phone.

Yeah... definitely doesn't sound like a good idea where you are located.

rosethecopycat

09-05-2008, 07:24 PM

I have to sit down and write an I.O.U. to Obama. McCain will get my Monopoly money this time.

BO seems to know about redistribution of wealth, I don't think he'd know what to do with an I.O.U.
I guess he'd tear it up and give it out to people who don't have any I.O.U.'s

P.S. I like money.:p

AbbyMom

09-05-2008, 07:59 PM

GHWB was referring to community organizers/workers in his Thousand Points of Light speech all those years.

And here all this time I thought he was talking about "A thousand pints of Lite." ;)

JUST KIDDING!!!

:D

Edwina's Secretary

09-05-2008, 08:10 PM

I think it is terribly sad...but terribly typical of the Cons to sneer at someone beginning their career in public service as as community organizer.

They say they don't like big government - but the government has grown bigger every time they are in office. They say they support community-based solutions yet belittle the experince gained there (as if being mayor of a town about the size of the high school I attended is impressive!)

Say one thing...do another...you were expecting something different from this group???

sparks19

09-05-2008, 10:42 PM

RICHARD

09-05-2008, 11:54 PM

BO seems to know about redistribution of wealth, I don't think he'd know what to do with an I.O.U.
I guess he'd tear it up and give it out to people who don't have any I.O.U.'s

P.S. I like money.:p

Or "Flip Flop" it and think it was a grant to the U.O.I. (University of Illi-annoyed?)

JM might but another house or a hotel with the monopoly money?;)

Whose the Sekreteri of edukashun?
--------------------
AM,

I don't blame him, I'd go on a month long bender as soon as my term was over.:rolleyes:

-----------

What does a community organizer do?

Make sure the houses are all in line?

The house numbers go in order?

Alphabetize the neighbor hood phone directory?

WHat does a senator do?:o
--------------
Some side notes.

Who does that Palin kid belong to? I think John Edwards
What was Cindy McCain wearing under her 30 gazillon dollar outfit?
I vote for bikinis and a nice lace pushup?
Was SP riding a snowmobile outside the marriage?
Why won't Oprah let SP on her show/
LOL, That shows her character. She has BO on her "tribute to all things Winfrey hour" But now she won't have any of the candidates on until after the election. I bet Omarosa Obama gets the call!
Betcha!
JB's war record is amazing!
Does jm talk slow or is it me?

Cinder & Smoke

09-06-2008, 08:25 AM

Say one thing ... do another ...
you were expecting something different from this group???

Any group ;)

BOTH sides of the coin are equally guilty of this kind of thing.
It happens every election year.

Isn't that the truth!?

It really galls me when The Candidate "promises" to
"(fill in the lame promise)"

* Reduce Taxes
* Increase Programs
* Reduce Spending
* "GIVE" us anything
* and a dozen other hollow 'promises'

Do they REALLY Think that I 'buy' that stuff??

(On second thought, I guess I do *buy that stuff* ---
Every time I pay my Taxes!) :mad:

:p

I wonder how may MILLIONS of votes "NONE of the Above"
would receive if that choice was offered on Election Day?
:rolleyes:

sparks19

09-06-2008, 12:06 PM

Isn't that the truth!?

It really galls me when The Candidate "promises" to
"(fill in the lame promise)"

* Reduce Taxes
* Increase Programs
* Reduce Spending
* "GIVE" us anything
* and a dozen other hollow 'promises'

Do they REALLY Think that I 'buy' that stuff??

(On second thought, I guess I do *buy that stuff* ---
Every time I pay my Taxes!) :mad:

:p

I wonder how may MILLIONS of votes "NONE of the Above"
would receive if that choice was offered on Election Day?
:rolleyes:

I know lol isn't it funny how all of those things contradict each other. Lower taxes but more programs, reduce spending but give us anything.

WAKE UP PEOPLE... it CAN'T be both lol Nothing is free... it all has to be paid for somehow lol

RICHARD

09-06-2008, 12:23 PM

Isn't that the truth!?

Do they REALLY Think that I 'buy' that stuff??

(On second thought, I guess I do *buy that stuff* ---
Every time I pay my Taxes!) :mad:

Technically, We rent, We pay for it every year?:(;)

Edwina's Secretary

09-06-2008, 06:48 PM

I know lol isn't it funny how all of those things contradict each other. Lower taxes but more programs, reduce spending but give us anything.

WAKE UP PEOPLE... it CAN'T be both lol Nothing is free... it all has to be paid for somehow lol

This has long been my argument about GWB. He starts a war and lowers taxes. You cannot fight a war with LESS money.

So, he borrows the money to pay for it from the Chinese.

Soon the Chinese will own the U.S.

Solid Econ 101 as he likes to say.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

p.s. Many of the expenses for his war are not included in the budget deficit. It would be even LARGER if all the expenses were included.

Grace

09-06-2008, 07:34 PM

So, he borrows the money to pay for it from the Chinese.

Soon the Chinese will own the U.S.

Maybe they already do, and no one has told us :eek:

Puckstop31

09-06-2008, 07:47 PM

Maybe they already do, and no one has told us :eek:

Perhaps... So what is the answer? (I hate that I still have to add the disclaimer, but here goes... I would have replied to ES, but she is still 'ignoring' me. Childish, but what are ya gonna do. I apologized for being a tool.)

Seriously, I am certianly no expert in macro-economics, but really, what is the answer to this issue? Sure, we would all like stuff to be "made in the USA". But the facts are this... The cost of US produced goods rarely comes close to that of goods made overseas. Generally, the overseas product is also of superior quality.

What is to blame for that? Unions? Our fat arsed lazy selves? What?

FWIW, I care very much about this issue. I has a great deal to do with my business.

We know the problem, lets hear some solutions. Here are mine.

1.) Limit Labor Unions. Yes, a fair wage should be expected, but $30 an hour to push a button in a steel plant?

2.) Eliminate sales tax on US produced goods.

3.) Education. Lets actually teach our kids real world skills, rather than worry about sex ed and all the nanny state crap.

I've got more, but lets hear yours. :)

Edwina's Secretary

09-07-2008, 12:29 PM

I wonder how many Americans realize the government is borrowing money to pay for the Iraqi War?

The baseline budget numbers alone are mind-numbing: more than $490 billion in federal spending on the Iraq war so far -- including interest on the war debt. That's nearly 10 times the $50 billion the Bush administration originally estimated the war would cost.

The untold story -- one every American needs to hear -- is that the costs of this war go beyond these budget numbers. The Congressional Joint Economic Committee has determined that if the President's 2008 funding request is approved, the full economic cost of the war -- including the economic impact of deficit financing, the future care of our wounded veterans, and disruption in oil markets -- will total $1.3 trillion just by the end of 2008.

That's $16,500 for every family of four. And, if this war continues, that figure could jump to almost $37,000 for a family of four over the next decade.

And that war debt? From whom are we borrowing? Who will our children and grandchildren owe money to? To whom will this country owe?

Sparks19 is right.
Lower taxes but more programs You cannot lower taxes and make more war!

lizbud

09-07-2008, 01:26 PM

I was floored by this statement coming from the McCain camp on when
they will "allow" palin to speak to any newsmedia. She wants Americans
to vote her into the 2nd highest office in the country, but she is not
capable of answering any questions? If she's not up to tough political
questions, she should just say so.

Palin Media Avoidance Watch: Day 9 -- McCain Camp Says She Won't Do Interviews Until It Knows She'll Be Treated with "Deference"
September 07, 2008 9:41 AM

Rick Davis, campaign manager for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., just told Fox News Channel's Chris Wallace that McCain running mate Gov. Sarah Palin won't subject herself to any tough questions from reporters "until the point in time when she'll be treated with respect and deference."

Davis assailed the way the media had discussed Palin and her family in the last week and said the campaign would wait until a less hostile media environment.

So when will she subject herself to questions?

"When we think it's time and when she feels comfortable doing it," Davis said, praising a Fox News Channel profile of Palin that ran last night.

Why is she scared of answering questions? Wallace asked.

"She's not scared to answer questions," Davis said, "but you know what? We run our campaign not the news media."

Wallace said inappropriate intrusions into Palin's family and personal life aside, there are legitimate questions about whether she is prepared to be vice president.

"Sarah Palin will have the opportinity to speak to the American people," Davis said. "She will do interviews, but she'll do them on the terms and conditions" the campaign decides.

In fairness, an Alaska TV reporter did get to ask Palin a question Thursday, something along the lines of

"Governor, we feel like we're losing you - are you still going to be there for Alaska?"

- jpt

Grace

09-07-2008, 01:31 PM

Why is she scared of answering questions? Wallace asked.

That's what I've been asking myself recently. You better believe if Obama shut himself off from the press, there would be tougher queries than that one by the Republicans.

Grace

09-07-2008, 02:04 PM

From POLITICO -

Palin agrees to interview
By: Mike Allen
September 7, 2008 02:57 PM EST

Under pressure for being shielded for questioning, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) has a agreed to sit down with Charles Gibson of ABC’s “World News Tonight,” according to an ABC News official.

No other interviews are scheduled. It will be the first TV interview for Palin since she was named 10 days ago as running mate to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.).

Palin had planned to return to Alaska this weekend but is so popular on the stump that she is going to stay out a few more days before returning home. One of her sons deploys to Iraq on Thursday.

Palin plans to sit down with Gibson later this week in Alaska, the source said.

The McCain campaign kept her off Sunday shows this weekend and plans to be sparing with high-risk network encounters, which they contend are unimportant to voters despite the media’s fixation on them.

But McCain officials could see her reticence was feeding the narrative of her being unprepared for the job.

Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, her counterpart on the Democratic ticket, challenged her Sunday to submit to network questioning.

““She's a smart, tough politician,” Biden told Tom Brokaw in a “Meet the Press” interview live from Wilmington, Del. “So I think she's going to be formidable. Eventually, she's going to have to sit in front of you like I'm doing and have done.
Eventually, she's going to have to answer questions and not be sequestered.
Eventually, she's going to have to answer on the record.”

RICHARD

09-07-2008, 02:07 PM

Oh my word. Pun intended.

The same reason the Bo won't do interviews is not the probably the same reason that SP will not.

But then again, If you ummm and ahhhh a great deal, that may look like you are not prepared or can't answer a question, In SP's case she might not be trusted to keep from pulling out a gun during the convo...

One of the late night talk show hosts did a joke about that...

What is it with VPs and guns, What could possibly go wrong?:p

Edwina's Secretary

09-07-2008, 02:12 PM

Wow! :eek::eek: Unless the press tells the story the way they want it told - no interviews. More of the same as we get today!

Unfortunately, digging dirt on candidates and their families is as American as apple pie. Andrew Jackson's marriage to his wife before her divorce was final was a major scandal in its day and a big issue in the campaign. Some say it killed her.

Abraham Lincoln's wife also took a lot of heat from the press. She was from a slave owning family.

Negative press is what drove Nixon to make the famous "Checkers" speech and more recently we had the infamous Swift Boating. Anyone remember some hosility toward Kerry's wife? I can recall some pretty nasty things said about her right here on PetTalk! About her voice, her looks, her money.

I assume they are keeping Palin off the radar to control the message and to train her to talk about something other than mooseburgers.

Pity they don't think her capable of handling the heat.

Edwina's Secretary

09-07-2008, 02:17 PM

The same reason the Bo won't do interviews is not the probably the same reason that SP will not.

That's odd. I heard Barak Obama being interviewed on one of the Sunday morning talk show this morning. It was a pretty tough interview. And he handled some questions well and some questions not so well.

But he was interviewed.

Or does Bo refer to someone else?

Grace

09-07-2008, 02:55 PM

I assume they are keeping Palin off the radar to control the message and to train her to talk about something other than mooseburgers.

Pity they don't think her capable of handling the heat.

She is being prepped. I read in last night's paper -

Experts Helping Palin Brush Up on Foreign Policy

ST. PAUL, Minn., Sept. 4 -- Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman is among several national security experts helping brief Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin on foreign policy issues as she prepares to hit the campaign trail while cramming for a debate with her Democratic opponent, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (Del.), in less than a month, according to officials from Sen. John McCain's campaign.

Tubby & Peanut's Mom

09-07-2008, 04:18 PM

Or "Flip Flop" it
I'm going to take this totally out of context because "flip flop" is one of my latest pet peeves - amongst many others (but I had to read/reply quickly because we're getting to our destination).

It's one of my pet peeves because he Republicans made such a big deal about it during the last electrion with Kerry, and they had already started on it in this election with Obama. Then I hear......at first Palin supported the "bridge to nowhere" but then "changed her position" and now she opposes it.

Why is it that when Republicans are speaking, Democrats "flip flop" and Republicans "change their position?"

I just don't understand why it has to be this way? Why can't everyone just realize that politicians - like everyone else in the world - can change their minds as they learn more about and issue/subject? Why must it be put in a negative light (when Democrats are involved) and be labeled as flip flopping instead of being heralded as "Hey, this man/lady must be intelligent. He/she looked into the details of the issue and realized the error of his/her ways?" (as it is when Republicans are involved).

Maybe if flip flopping hadn't been such an issue during the last elections, our fine sitting president (snicker) might not have been such a bull head......oh.....that's a topic for another conversation........:rolleyes:

Oh, and when I first logged onto PT today this topic was the first listed in the Dog House section and after reading the title of the thread, why was I not surprised to see Edwina's Secretary as the last poster to the thread?

lizbud

09-07-2008, 04:45 PM

I'm going to take this totally out of context because "flip flop" is one of my latest pet peeves - amongst many others (but I had to read/reply quickly because we're getting to our destination).

It's one of my pet peeves because he Republicans made such a big deal about it during the last electrion with Kerry, and they had already started on it in this election with Obama. Then I hear......at first Palin supported the "bridge to nowhere" but then "changed her position" and now she opposes it.

Why is it that when Republicans are speaking, Democrats "flip flop" and Republicans "change their position?"

I just don't understand why it has to be this way? Why can't everyone just realize that politicians - like everyone else in the world - can change their minds as they learn more about and issue/subject? Why must it be put in a negative light (when Democrats are involved) and be labeled as flip flopping instead of being heralded as "Hey, this man/lady must be intelligent. He/she looked into the details of the issue and realized the error of his/her ways?" (as it is when Republicans are involved).

Maybe if flip flopping hadn't been such an issue during the last elections, our fine sitting president (snicker) might not have been such a bull head......oh.....that's a topic for another conversation........:rolleyes:

Oh, and when I first logged onto PT today this topic was the first listed in the Dog House section and after reading the title of the thread, why was I not surprised to see Edwina's Secretary as the last poster to the thread?

It's so good to hear from you again.:D Hope you're able to pop in
a little more often.:)

RICHARD

09-07-2008, 06:08 PM

"changed her position"

But doesn't "honey, let's change position" sound far more romantic than "honey, let's flip flop" when you are dealing with politicians and who is in bed with them?;)

Puckstop31

09-08-2008, 07:13 AM

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/obama-verbal-slip-fuels-his-critics/

The reason I post this is... NOW context matters? I don't care about BO's religion, but I do care about the press suddenly caring about context. It never mattered before, so why now?

Puckstop31

09-09-2008, 08:12 AM

Interesting...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986/page/3

Seems to be that a lot of the rumors about Mrs. Palin are FALSE or are taken WAY out of context. Shocker.

Puckstop31

09-09-2008, 08:21 PM

Somebody's getting nnneeerrrrvvvvoooouuussssss......

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!! I LOVE it.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-says-mc-1.html

Puckstop31

09-09-2008, 08:25 PM

Oh yeah... REALLY desperate.

http://wcbstv.com/politics/paterson.mccain.palin.2.813646.html

If I were a Democrat, i'd be worried about the very lame accusations. It sounds WAY desperate. LOL

"Change" my arse. OB is running a campaign that is the same as every campaign in modern history, either side.

RICHARD

09-10-2008, 01:22 AM

"Change" my arse.

:eek:

PS,
I am sure you have has the proper instruction on 'field stripping' your rear end.;)

Puckstop31

09-10-2008, 08:07 AM

:eek:

PS,
I am sure you have has the proper instruction on 'field stripping' your rear end.;)

ROFL!!!!

Sure.

LOL :p

momoffuzzyfaces

09-10-2008, 12:24 PM

"Change" my arse. OB is running a campaign that is the same as every campaign in modern history, either side.

Oh, yeah, right!!!! :rolleyes: Like McCain isn't doing the exact same thing!!! :p Just because he picked a woman to run with him doesn't mean change. HE will be president not her if they are elected.

Wake up people. No matter who is elected, we will have the same old mess in 4 years. Until we get people in government working for the common people instead of the special interests with the money, we are in for more of the same. Notice how the problem of immagration has been silenced lately. Meanwhile, every day, thousands still sneak into the US across the borders. :rolleyes:

Puckstop31

09-10-2008, 12:39 PM

Oh, yeah, right!!!! :rolleyes: Like McCain isn't doing the exact same thing!!! :p Just because he picked a woman to run with him doesn't mean change. HE will be president not her if they are elected.

Wake up people. No matter who is elected, we will have the same old mess in 4 years. Until we get people in government working for the common people instead of the special interests with the money, we are in for more of the same. Notice how the problem of immagration has been silenced lately. Meanwhile, every day, thousands still sneak into the US across the borders. :rolleyes:

I said, ""Change" my arse. OB is running a campaign that is the same as every campaign in modern history, either side."

This means I KNOW McBush is doing the same thing.

I also agree with you 100% on the second paragraph.