Update on Puddy; she's gone*9/29* see post #421

[Medusa]

I bought a new fountain online today called a Drinkwell. It was mentioned in a thread, (forgive me, I can't recall where) and it has a flow like a faucet rather than the fountain she now has. I'm hoping that she'll like it enough to give up the corner of the countertop so that she can be near the sink. She did sleep in her carrier again last night but she's been lying on the countertop again all day. I guess when she gets uncomfortable, she'll get down, right? I'm not usually a fuss budget (boy, does that term date me) but I so want her to be comfortable.

[Moesha]

I bought a new fountain online today called a Drinkwell. It was mentioned in a thread, (forgive me, I can't recall where) and it has a flow like a faucet rather than the fountain she now has.

What is your cat thinking? (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=145608&page=2) That's the thread. I just read it.

I hope you figure out something that will help Puddy behave more like her old self. I hope the vomitting doesn't happen again either.

[Catty1]

Would it be worth getting a reading from Brody's Mum or Nancy?


Just a thought.

HUGS and prayers to you and Puddy. :love:

[jazzcat]

Just want to offer some (((HUGS))).

[Emeraldgreen]

Dr. Lee sounds like a fantastic vet. I hope that it does turn out to be an autoimmune response to the Epogen and not something more serious. As you said, if she returns to the countertop after tomorrow's shot, it's likely you'll have your answer.
I'm glad she is still eating and hanging in there as best she can.


I'll ask him but he said that I'm jabbing her once a day, squirting meds down her throat twice a day, jabbing her again for another reason once a week, I have to brush her teeth every day, rinse her gums w/Chlorhexadine; he said that too much could stress her out and have a reverse effect on her. But I'll ask nonetheless; it couldn't hurt to ask.

Do you think that Dr. Lee would approve you cutting back on the brushing of her teeth and rinsing of her gums just for now until she gets through this part? I'm just imagining that feeling so lousy can only be harder with having objects and liquids in her mouth. But her dental condition may be serious enough to maintain this routine so only you and Dr. Lee will know what's best. Hopefully she will be back to her old self soon! Prayers going out for you both. :love:

[Medusa]

Would it be worth getting a reading from Brody's Mum or Nancy?


Just a thought.

HUGS and prayers to you and Puddy. :love:

I did get a reading from Nancy. Very nice lady but she didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know.

[Medusa]

Dr. Lee sounds like a fantastic vet. I hope that it does turn out to be an autoimmune response to the Epogen and not something more serious. As you said, if she returns to the countertop after tomorrow's shot, it's likely you'll have your answer.
I'm glad she is still eating and hanging in there as best she can.



Do you think that Dr. Lee would approve you cutting back on the brushing of her teeth and rinsing of her gums just for now until she gets through this part? I'm just imagining that feeling so lousy can only be harder with having objects and liquids in her mouth. But her dental condition may be serious enough to maintain this routine so only you and Dr. Lee will know what's best. Hopefully she will be back to her old self soon! Prayers going out for you both. :love:

I guess what I should've said is that I'm supposed to brush her teeth daily. I cut back to a couple of times a week for the very reason you mentioned, Lara. I do squirt the Chlorhexadine in her mouth daily, though, because she does have gingivitis and she needs it. I use it myself and it does help, although I'm waking up w/blood in my mouth again, too. The last round of antibiotics cleared it up but after a couple of weeks, it started again, so I'm dealing w/that, too. I haven't been able to get in to see my dr. because of missing so much work and running back and forth w/Puddy but I finished my Rx yesterday, so I'm sure he's going to insist that I see him. Yay.

[slick]

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/message.cfm?l=eng&cid=6644002

Love slick :love::love:

[Medusa]

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/message.cfm?l=eng&cid=6644002

Love slick :love::love:

Thank you, Slick, I love this. And thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to think of my Puddy. I used to light candles on this site all the time. Thanx for the reminder. :)

[Medusa]

After her Epogen injection yesterday, Puddy went underneath my bed, not hers, and stayed there. Finally last night she came out for some fudgesicle but she went right back when she was finished. During the night, I heard what sounded like Puddy running in place. (I have hardwood floors so I hear everything.) She flew and I mean flew out from under the bed as though she was shot out of a cannon, ran into the hallway and peed on the runner. Her litterbox is literally steps away from the runner. I don't know if she couldn't make it or if it was a revenge pee. I had asked Dr. Lee if she could possibly feel sick after the shot, such as humans sometimes do after a flu shot or whatever, and he said that it's doubtful because runners wouldn't be able to take it and then run their races. I'm thinking that she just couldn't make it to her litterbox but then why wouldn't she just have peed under the bed? She peed right in the sink in front of me last week, if you'll recall. Another strange episode in the Puddy saga.

Just a few minutes ago I could hear her meowing upstairs, as though she was calling me. Then she came downstairs, walked around in the kitchen a bit, then went to the basement and walked around, then came back up and paused at the top of the basement stairs, then went upstairs again to her carrier. It's as though she was looking for something. So I thought maybe she wanted breakfast (it's Sunday so I slept in and hadn't fed them Fancy Feast yet), so I fed everyone but she wouldn't come out of her carrier to eat, so I carried her downstairs and she ate quite a bit, then back up to her carrier she went. At least I can see that she has the energy to walk up and down two flights of stairs. LOL

[pomtzu]

She's testing you! :(
I think she just didn't make it in time to get to the litterbox and wouldn't pee under the bed since this is one of her sleeping spots. She peed in the sink - but she doesn't actually sleep IN the sink, but go try to figure why she did that! And I'd take it as a good sign if she charged out of there like her back side was on fire, and also that she went down the steps on her own. At least she had the energy to do it!
It's stange, but it does sound like she's looking for something, but what? I still have the feeling that it's her advancing age and perhaps some senility that's behind all of it, but I'm no doctor!
Be that as it may, the crew here is still in her corner and saying prayers that things will improve - for BOTH of you! :love:

[slick]

This is a very long thread and I quickly browsed through it.
Forgive me if you've already done this but have you had her read by Nancy?

[Medusa]

This is a very long thread and I quickly browsed through it.
Forgive me if you've already done this but have you had her read by Nancy?

Yes, I have. Very nice lady indeed but she didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know but it was worth a try.

[jennielynn1970]

My one cat, Taz, used to pee in the sink. I had double bowls, and he would stand on the middle part of it, and pee into either side. I'm not sure why he did this, if he started it up at my mom and dad's when they weren't looking (my mother would have had a heart attack), but this was a good 8 years ago, and my one boyfriend lived with me. We were supposed to take turns cleaning the litter boxes (cause he claimed Boris as his own), and he slacked off. It got me ticked off, and I was being stubborn and not cleaning when he was supposed to, but that didn't really help the kitties much. I think it was Taz's way of saying "Stop arguing and just clean my darn potty!"

Although, have to say, even after that, and it was cleaned on a regular, daily basis, he still did that.

So strange.

[Medusa]

My one cat, Taz, used to pee in the sink. I had double bowls, and he would stand on the middle part of it, and pee into either side. I'm not sure why he did this, if he started it up at my mom and dad's when they weren't looking (my mother would have had a heart attack), but this was a good 8 years ago, and my one boyfriend lived with me. We were supposed to take turns cleaning the litter boxes (cause he claimed Boris as his own), and he slacked off. It got me ticked off, and I was being stubborn and not cleaning when he was supposed to, but that didn't really help the kitties much. I think it was Taz's way of saying "Stop arguing and just clean my darn potty!"

Although, have to say, even after that, and it was cleaned on a regular, daily basis, he still did that.

So strange.

Well, she only did it that one time and she did it right in front of me, so I'm not sure what that was about. She has her own litterbox in her own room, the little diva, and I clean it twice a day, so I don't that was an issue, especially since she's exhibited other bizarre behavior. She's one for the books, that's for sure!

[Medusa]

So much for saying that she only peed that one time. Since then she's peed on the hall runner and I walked into my bedroom just now and caught her peeing on the hardwood floor. It was a lot, too. So now she's banned from my bedroom. She's been sleeping under my bed but no more. I honestly don't know what's going on w/her. She can easily make it to her litterbox; I've watched her do it. I don't know if she's senile or sending me a message or what. I think she's just plain miserable. I put a call in to Dr. Lee but he's gone for the day, so he'll call me tomorrow morning. I hate giving her one more med but I'm going to ask him if I can safely put her on Clomicalm. I can tolerate an awful lot but inappropriate peeing really tries my patience. I know she's sick and if she was too weak to make it to the litterbox, no problem. But that isn't the case. I'm at my wits end. Truly.

[jenluckenbach]

To be honest, Clomicalm is to reduce stress (correct?). This does not sound like stress. To me it is either she CANNOT make it to a box or she DOESN'T CARE IF she makes it to a box. Unless she has been a problem pee-er in the past, I would doubt if this is caused by attitude.
For the record, if this is your breaking point, it is legitimate. People, no matter how noble, can only handle so much. You have to honestly ask yourself how much can you take?

I think she's just plain miserable
If she IS miserable, I think you KNOW what you have to do.

I apologize if any of this sounds harsh or heartless, but it is not meant to be. It is life...............

Hugs and prayers are with you now, more than ever.

[Medusa]

Thanx, Jen, I appreciate the encouraging words a lot. You've been a good friend through all of this, all of you have. I'll admit to having a weak moment when I posted this. I was so shocked when I saw her pee like that. She's never done that; she's always been the model cat. The only time she's ever peed outside the box is when she's had a URI and she just went off Zenaquin for a URI, so I doubt that's it. If this was all she was doing, it might be different but the constant sitting on the countertop or sleeping under my bed, not socializing, all of it, it's just too much. It's breaking my heart. I don't want this to be about me; it's about Puddy. I just cannot fathom having her PTS for inappropriate peeing. I've got to have confirmation that she is indeed miserable and doesn't want to go on. Yet, I roasted a chicken w/stuffing for dinner and I took some white meat w/a little broth on it to her and she scurried down those little steps so fast, I could hardly believe it. And she ate almost all of the chicken. That tells me that she still has the will to live.

Clomicalm is for behavior problems, inappropriate urinating being one of them. I just want to be sure that it won't hurt her, given all of her other problems. I'm just sick at heart right now. I cooked that dinner and can't eat any of it. All I do is cry. I've had pets all my life and if I need to have her PTS, this won't be the first time I've done it but it would be the first time that I'll feel that a part of my soul has died, too. I've never loved an animal the way I love Puddy.

[Grace]

I know why she was put on the Epogen, but did she act this way at all before it was started? And it is the only new medication she's on, correct?

Before I would say good bye to her, I would stop the med and see how she is.

[carole]

Mary would inappropriate peeing just be part and parcel of having kidney failure, that is what Puddy has isn't it?

Mary keep loving her as much as you do, just know that part of loving her is knowing when to let her go, so hard with kidney kitty's as one day they are so bad and the next they perk up like Puddy does.

I feel your'e pain and i too will be faced with the same decisions as you further down the track, it makes an already devastating decision just that much harder to make.

You know your'e kitty best and what is for the best,I was thinking though apart from the necessary medications, if it were me i would not add anymore, they could be adding to her problems, you know how many side effects medication can have, and they may not necessarily be making her feel better, just worse, anyhow that is purely my opinion, and it is entirely your right and decision to do what you think is for the best, i am thinking of you and Puddy, take care, and HUGS.

[cassiesmom]

I roasted a chicken w/stuffing for dinner and I took some white meat w/a little broth on it to her and she scurried down those little steps so fast, I could hardly believe it. And she ate almost all of the chicken.
Thatagirl, sweet Puddy!

[Medusa]

I know why she was put on the Epogen, but did she act this way at all before it was started? And it is the only new medication she's on, correct?

Before I would say good bye to her, I would stop the med and see how she is.

I'm thinking back and it does seem that she started this weird behavior after she started the Epogen. But if I take her off it, then her anemia will be so bad that she won't have any energy at all. Her energy level does seem to have improved; you should've seen how fast she came down that little staircase and went to her food dish. I'm hoping Dr. Lee will have some answers for me tomorrow. Every time I think I'm done crying, the tears start up again. I'm exhausted. If my head and my heart would just be congruent, I could make a decision one way or the other. Right now, I'm frozen.

[carole]

Mary i can understand how torn you are inside about what to do next, maybe you should ask Dr lee, be straight to the point and see what he say's he may be able to take the decision out of your hands, if you know what i mean, or at least help you make one, in the meantime , try and get some rest and remember you are amongst friends here who really care about you and Puddy, HUGS:love::love:

[Emeraldgreen]

Oh my goodness Mary, you two have been through so much! It seems that her inappropriate urinating is getting more and more excessive. It might be that she is dealing with a UTI and she may be associating an uncomfortableness that she might be feeling is connected with the use of the actual litter box. I found this quote on the net tonight:

"Inappropriate urination can be as a result of a urinary tract infection (UTI) or constipation, whereby the cat associates the litter box with the pain of the UTI or constipation, so starts urinating and/or defecating elsewhere."

It would be great if you could get a urine sample and bring it in to the vet. Those little pellets that are like litter but allow you to collect a urine sample are called No-Sorb.

Or you could put the plug in your drain in the sink and then check it every now and then and if she uses it, you could use a syringe to draw up a sample. I know it wouldn't be entirely sterile but it might be worth a try.

"UTIs and kidney infections may also damage your cat's kidneys further, so if your cat urinates or defecates in the wrong place more than once, you should go to the vet as soon as possible in order to have tests done and treatment begun if necessary."

I've read that you can't determine if a cat has a kidney infection through collecting a sample using NoSorb though and that a urinalysis and/or blood work is what is needed to show if a cat has a kidney infection or not.

I found the following quote on a site about kidney infections:

"In older cats, if you notice anything different about their behavior, like not using their litterbox, or blood in their urine, it is in your aging cat's best interests to get him/her to a vet as soon as possible. Older cats are more susceptible to kidney infections and disease than younger cats."

But I seem to remember that Puddy has been on or is on meds for a UTI or something similar. I will have to go look through some of your older threads.

I have one other idea about her excessive and inappropriate urination.

It is kind of a weird thought but after I read this quote:

"In animals, erythropoietin has one major use: the treatment of anemia due to chronic renal disease. Since most erythropoietin is produced by the kidney it should make sense that a damaged kidney cannot produce normal amounts of erythropoietin and anemia results."

I started thinking, what if her kidneys have been helped by the Epogen to the point that the sub-q fluids are not as necessary as they once were and now Puddy's body has too much fluid on board?
I started thinking about that the more I read about Erythropoietin and how it is a synthetic form of the naturally occurring hormone normally produced in the kidneys. If a cat has suffered a reduction in this hormone for a length of time and then becomes dependent on sub-q fluids to help the kidneys along, it seems like it could make sense that the kidneys might not need both fluids and the hormone at the same time because maybe it's too much help. I don't know if there is a direct connection between the hormone and urinating but the kidneys themselves are related to urinating so if changes are happening within the kidneys with the addition of meds, it seems possible that the act of urinating might be effected as it is the 'end' result of what is happening in the kidneys.
I don't know how often you are giving sub-q's at this point but you might want to try backing off on it (if your vet okay's it) and see if the inappropriate peeing decreases.
Does that make sense?I might be grasping at straws here but I want to help you so much to find some answers. I know this has been so hard on you and it would be for any of us if it was happening to one of our pets.

In the meantime, since the runner in the hall seems to be her fav spot for peeing out of the box, could you put a tarp down, folded in the shape of the runner (to fool her of course!) and then put some towels on top or an old blanket that you could toss in the wash each day until this thing is figured out? I can only imagine how frustrating this is becoming for you and something has got to give and soon. I'm praying for resolution and that you and Puddy will both find healing ASAP! Whatever you decide, Puddy has an awesome mom and she surely knows how much you love her. :love:
p.s. I'm sure you've come across this site in your searches of CRF over the years but just in case I'll include it here because it seems to have a ton of info on it, including a bunch about Anemia and Epogen. Here is the link (http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#UTIs).

[Medusa]

Oh my goodness Mary, you two have been through so much! It seems that her inappropriate urinating is getting more and more excessive. It might be that she is dealing with a UTI and she may be associating an uncomfortableness that she might be feeling is connected with the use of the actual litter box. I found this quote on the net tonight:

"Inappropriate urination can be as a result of a urinary tract infection (UTI) or constipation, whereby the cat associates the litter box with the pain of the UTI or constipation, so starts urinating and/or defecating elsewhere."

It would be great if you could get a urine sample and bring it in to the vet. Those little pellets that are like litter but allow you to collect a urine sample are called No-Sorb.

Or you could put the plug in your drain in the sink and then check it every now and then and if she uses it, you could use a syringe to draw up a sample. I know it wouldn't be entirely sterile but it might be worth a try.

"UTIs and kidney infections may also damage your cat's kidneys further, so if your cat urinates or defecates in the wrong place more than once, you should go to the vet as soon as possible in order to have tests done and treatment begun if necessary."

I've read that you can't determine if a cat has a kidney infection through collecting a sample using NoSorb though and that a urinalysis and/or blood work is what is needed to show if a cat has a kidney infection or not.

I found the following quote on a site about kidney infections:

"In older cats, if you notice anything different about their behavior, like not using their litterbox, or blood in their urine, it is in your aging cat's best interests to get him/her to a vet as soon as possible. Older cats are more susceptible to kidney infections and disease than younger cats."

But I seem to remember that Puddy has been on or is on meds for a UTI or something similar. I will have to go look through some of your older threads.

I have one other idea about her excessive and inappropriate urination.

It is kind of a weird thought but after I read this quote:

"In animals, erythropoietin has one major use: the treatment of anemia due to chronic renal disease. Since most erythropoietin is produced by the kidney it should make sense that a damaged kidney cannot produce normal amounts of erythropoietin and anemia results."

I started thinking, what if her kidneys have been helped by the Epogen to the point that the sub-q fluids are not as necessary as they once were and now Puddy's body has too much fluid on board?
I started thinking about that the more I read about Erythropoietin and how it is a synthetic form of the naturally occurring hormone normally produced in the kidneys. If a cat has suffered a reduction in this hormone for a length of time and then becomes dependent on sub-q fluids to help the kidneys along, it seems like it could make sense that the kidneys might not need both fluids and the hormone at the same time because maybe it's too much help. I don't know if there is a direct connection between the hormone and urinating but the kidneys themselves are related to urinating so if changes are happening within the kidneys with the addition of meds, it seems possible that the act of urinating might be effected as it is the 'end' result of what is happening in the kidneys.
I don't know how often you are giving sub-q's at this point but you might want to try backing off on it (if your vet okay's it) and see if the inappropriate peeing decreases.
Does that make sense?I might be grasping at straws here but I want to help you so much to find some answers. I know this has been so hard on you and it would be for any of us if it was happening to one of our pets.

In the meantime, since the runner in the hall seems to be her fav spot for peeing out of the box, could you put a tarp down, folded in the shape of the runner (to fool her of course!) and then put some towels on top or an old blanket that you could toss in the wash each day until this thing is figured out? I can only imagine how frustrating this is becoming for you and something has got to give and soon. I'm praying for resolution and that you and Puddy will both find healing ASAP! Whatever you decide, Puddy has an awesome mom and she surely knows how much you love her. :love:
p.s. I'm sure you've come across this site in your searches of CRF over the years but just in case I'll include it here because it seems to have a ton of info on it, including a bunch about Anemia and Epogen. Here is the link (http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#UTIs).

Y'know, Lara, you and I are of the same mind. Puddy has been fighting me tooth and claw during her subQ treatments and that's odd because she's always just sat there calmly, even purred during it. Yes, in the beginning she put up a fuss but after a few treatments, she got used to it and no more fussing. Yesterday, she carried on so badly that she pulled the needle out and so I stopped the treatment. The reason I started her back on daily treatments is because she was so dehydrated. After a treatment, she always has a sack of fluid under her right front leg but for a while, this wasn't occurring. Dr. Lee said "Wow, she's absorbing all that fluid because she's so dehydrated" so I kept up the dailies. I decided yesterday after she fussed so much to skip today and see how she does.

Last night she paced nearly all night. She has one funky claw that grows weird and I'm not able to clip it down the way it should be so I heard that claw "tap tap tap" on the hard wood floor all night. I'm waiting to hear from Dr. Lee yet this morning; I'm anxious to hear what he has to say about all this.

[smokey the elder]

When my Luna (RB) was at the end stages of his kidney failure, he became incontinent.:(

[Medusa]

I just got off the phone w/Dr. Lee and he feels that she more than likely has yet another bladder infection. He said "When it stings to urinate, a cat will go right where s/he is even if the litterbox is right there". So he's starting her on another round of Clindamycin and he said that I could back her off the subQ's to every other day if my instincts are telling me to do so. He's concerned, though, that fewer subQ's may set her back because when he last saw her, she was lying in a ball, so I have to observe her and, if she regresses, to immediately give her a subQ. I told him how she paced all night and he said "The very fact that she has the energy to pace is a good sign. She's been checked for diabetes, thyroid and everything else we can think of and she has none of these, so she's probably become nocturnal. She's a mixed up kitty." So I'll start her on the Clindamycin today and see if it stops the inappropriate peeing.

I feel bad that I lost it yesterday. None of this is Puddy's fault. I'm sleep deprived; I know that's half of it. The other half is seeing my girl act like someone else's cat. I miss my TV partner. No more sleeping on my chest while I give her a noggin noogie.

[greendoor678]

Hopefully the UTI meds will help. Though, it does seem like patching up one problem leads to another problem. I wonder if she were an outdoor cat how she would react? (Of course, I don't mean putting her outdoors). But growing up in the country, whenever I had a cat with medical problems he/she would wander off into the woods and we would never see them again.
We would always say that they went away to die because they were generally always very close to the house, then they would just go away, like they were walking towards the light.
Devastating to think about PTS your Puddy. I just wonder if patching up each problem is really enhancing her quality of life? I do hope the UTI meds and adding a day between sub-q will help.

[Medusa]

Hopefully the UTI meds will help. Though, it does seem like patching up one problem leads to another problem. I wonder if she were an outdoor cat how she would react? (Of course, I don't mean putting her outdoors). But growing up in the country, whenever I had a cat with medical problems he/she would wander off into the woods and we would never see them again.
We would always say that they went away to die because they were generally always very close to the house, then they would just go away, like they were walking towards the light.
Devastating to think about PTS your Puddy. I just wonder if patching up each problem is really enhancing her quality of life? I do hope the UTI meds and adding a day between sub-q will help.

Well, seeing that Puddy has only one kidney and that one isn't working too well, it's understandable that she would get continuous UTI's. I don't see it as a patch job so much as continuing to treat her remaining failing kidney but I can see why you would think that because I felt that way, too, in the beginning. When Puddy was curled up in a ball, I thought it was nearing the end. But she's got energy now so I think Dr. Lee is right; it's the bladder infection that's acting up and causing her to pee everywhere. I feel neither better nor worse about this. I'm kinda in limbo now.

[Catty1]

The Epogen does seem to be helping her! I'll mention the alternative med in case it becomes useful. darbepoetin (Aranesp ®)

Lara, I don't think Epogen makes the kidneys better...but maybe the one remaining kidney doesn't work as hard because the anemia is being healed? That could be.

Hopefully the Clindamycin works - Puddy wouldn't be the first kitty to have a recurrence of a UTI! When something "normal" happens during crisis illness, it easily becomes part of the crisis.

HUGS and prayers to you and Puddy.

[Lisacl]

I will be thinking of Puddy. :love:

[Medusa]

She hates it. It's so neat, too, because it has a spigot just like a sink and the water flow can be controlled, so I have it streaming just as I do w/the bathroom sink for her. She isn't having it. She is so exasperating! But she got another shot on Saturday and showed improvement, so we're going back to shots twice a week. I have to pick up more syringes at Dr. Lee's today. I asked about darbopoetin and he said that it's more than double the cost of Epogen, so that isn't doable anyhow. And he said no iron shots. Iron supports red blood cells but Epogen produces them and he said that he isn't big on iron shots or supplements so no iron shots either. She's definitely nocturnal now; she's tap tap tapping on the floor all night, jumping up on the sink, jumping down, going back and forth from her food dish to under my bed to up on the sink. (Yes, I allowed her back into my bedroom at night because I can't hear what's going on w/the door closed.) All in all, I feel she's improved somewhat but she's still acting weird; the senility probably.

[Emeraldgreen]

Darned finicky cats! Do you think you could return it or would your other cats appreciate it? I once bought a pet fountain and then sold it to a friend for her cats because mine were afraid of it.
I'm glad to hear that she is back with you in your room. :) I'm sure she is happier being with mom. It sure must be tough on your sleep pattern though with her nocturnal activities. I guess the fact that she is active at all though is a blessing.
Does the Clindamyacin seem to be helping with the accidents?

[Medusa]

Darned finicky cats! Do you think you could return it or would your other cats appreciate it? I once bought a pet fountain and then sold it to a friend for her cats because mine were afraid of it.
I'm glad to hear that she is back with you in your room. :) I'm sure she is happier being with mom. It sure must be tough on your sleep pattern though with her nocturnal activities. I guess the fact that she is active at all though is a blessing.
Does the Clindamyacin seem to be helping with the accidents?

I'm sure the rest of the Fur Posse would like it; they have two others that they enjoy. I just thought that this one would please Her Highness because it looks like a faucet and the flow is the same but no, of course not. The Clindamycin isn't helping w/the peeing. I spoke w/Dr. Lee yesterday and I told him that I don't think her problem is medical; I think she has an attitude toward me now. She's pi$$ed at me, if you'll pardon the pun. I've removed the hall runner so that she won't pee on it any more but she still occasionally goes on the hardwood floor. I'm afraid it's going to warp if she continues w/this behavior. That's the one thing that really has me perturbed. Any other time when she's gotten mad at me, she'd take a swat at me or nip at my ankle when I walked by. This is not like her but there it is. I also thought that maybe she doesn't like her litterbox any more so I'm giving her a new one and I'm giving Cat Attract litter a try. I'm probably asking for trouble w/changing the brand of litter but I'm willing to try it, at least.

[Medusa]

I crawled into bed and became instantly sad that my bunkie was under my bed rather than in bed w/me watching TV and I started to cry. Puddy crawled out from under the bed, hopped up into bed w/me, climbed onto my chest and licked away my tears, then kissed me right on the lips. Then she moved to the pillow next to me and sat there as if she was saying "I'm staying right here until I know you're ok, Mom". We sat there for a few minutes, she purring, then she walked off the bed to the doorway, turned and looked at me and then went into the bathroom to lie on the countertop, as though she was saying "My work is done here". She slept on the countertop most of the night but I felt that she was letting me know that she's ok.

[pomtzu]

I crawled into bed and became instantly sad that my bunkie was under my bed rather than in bed w/me watching TV and I started to cry. Puddy crawled out from under the bed, hopped up into bed w/me, climbed onto my chest and licked away my tears, then kissed me right on the lips. Then she moved to the pillow next to me and sat there as if she was saying "I'm staying right here until I know you're ok, Mom". We sat there for a few minutes, she purring, then she walked off the bed to the doorway, turned and looked at me and then went into the bathroom to lie on the countertop, as though she was saying "My work is done here". She slept on the countertop most of the night but I felt that she was letting me know that she's ok.

I got LES just reading this! How sweet. She's still with you, still aware, and sounds like she's just not ready to go anywhere yet. This whole story has been so heartwrenching tho with all the ups and downs. If only Puddy could talk.......

[slick]

Oh Mary, that would just about do me in. LES....:(:(
What a sweet baby girl....she knows just when Meowmie needs her.

I'm so happy to hear that she's hangin' in there and I admit that I had to giggle at the post about the water fountain. Durn kats anyway!!

{{{hugs}}} to you and gentle kisses to Mz Puddy....:love:

[Taz_Zoee]

Oh my, I only read Mary's last post, but it also gave me LES. That is so sweet.
I can tell how much this girl means to you. And it is heartbreaking that you two are going through this rough time.
You and Puddy will be in my thoughts. (((HUGS)))

[Emeraldgreen]

Puddy is such a special girl! I'm so happy for you that you had that moment with her. Thank you for sharing it with us. :love:

[jenluckenbach]

LES here too. :love: What a sweet girl.

[ChrisH]

Another les afflicted reader here. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/CwmmawrJet/Smiles/grouphug.gif

[Scooter's Mom]

Mary that was so beautiful of Puddy. She loves you, too!

[Donnaj4962]

Oh my... LES here also. What a sweet baby girl, helping you as she did. What a precious gift from God she is! :love:

[Freedom]

Aw dear Puddy, taking care of her momma.

Hugs to you, Mary.

[Medusa]

I can't sleep in my bed tonight because Puddy peed in it. I heard her tapping on the floor so I went to investigate and she was eating. So I said "Aw, what a good girl!" and went back to bed. A few seconds later she came up into bed w/me and I thought we'd have another sweet moment like last night. No. She squatted. I yelled "Puddy! No!" Too late. Soaked through the comforter and sheets clear to the mattress. She ran underneath my bed until she saw I was busy cleaning up, then she ran into the bathroom. I'm going to have to stick to my banning her from my bedroom. I can't have her peeing on my bed. I had to scrub it w/Urine Gone and now here I sit at my computer. Gee, I wonder why I'm sleep deprived.

[pomtzu]

Oh my!!!! And just when it looked like she was heading in the right direction................:confused:

[Medusa]

Oh my!!!! And just when it looked like she was heading in the right direction................:confused:

Confused is right! I felt bad afterwards because I yelled at her but jeez! I had to strip the bed, scrub it and sleep in the guest room. It was hours before I could fall asleep. I know that it's behavioral because the litterbox was right beside where she was. She had to do some walking and then jump up on my bed. All I can think of is that she got another Epogen shot yesterday and that was my payback.

[Randi]

Oh dear, I was hoping Puddy was just doing a little better. It was SO sweet that she came up in bed and tried to comfort you - and now this. I am so sorry! :(

It seems you'll have to put her in your bathroom if you want any sleep - and I do hope you will!

Sending lots of positive thoughts to you and Puddy.

Big (((hugs)))

[jazzcat]

I'm sorry. Do you think it's behavioral or do you think she's confused?

[Medusa]

I'm sorry. Do you think it's behavioral or do you think she's confused?

I think that I may have just figured it out and I'm heartsick over it. I took a shower just a while ago and while I was in the shower, she was sitting on the toilet, instead of on the sink countertop, and she was crying. I got out of the shower and said "What's wrong, Puddy?" and she kept crying, then hopped back up onto the sink countertop and into the sink and peed. Sigh. Ok, she's done that before and I did have the bathroom door closed, so she couldn't get to her litterbox, so it's easily forgiven. So I proceeded to blowdry my hair, put on my moisturizer, etc. and she began to cry again, went into the sink and started scratching the sink. I thought "OMG, she's going to have a bowel movement!" So I quickly moved her to the litterbox and she did indeed go. So. I think her senility has taken over; she thinks the sink is her litterbox and if she has the urgency to go, she wants to be near it. She has her lucid moments but by far, she's more out of it than ever. Senility is one thing but if it's going to keep her from enjoying life forever and keep her emotionally chained to the bathroom sink countertop, then I'm afraid that I'd be doing her a disservice if I allow it to continue. I'm just heartsick about this. I fear that I've lost my little Puddy.

[jazzcat]

I think that I may have just figured it out and I'm heartsick over it. I took a shower just a while ago and while I was in the shower, she was sitting on the toilet, instead of on the sink countertop, and she was crying. I got out of the shower and said "What's wrong, Puddy?" and she kept crying, then hopped back up onto the sink countertop and into the sink and peed. Sigh. Ok, she's done that before and I did have the bathroom door closed, so she couldn't get to her litterbox, so it's easily forgiven. So I proceeded to blowdry my hair, put on my moisturizer, etc. and she began to cry again, went into the sink and started scratching the sink. I thought "OMG, she's going to have a bowel movement!" So I quickly moved her to the litterbox and she did indeed go. So. I think her senility has taken over; she thinks the sink is her litterbox and if she has the urgency to go, she wants to be near it. She has her lucid moments but by far, she's more out of it than ever. Senility is one thing but if it's going to keep her from enjoying life forever and keep her emotionally chained to the bathroom sink countertop, then I'm afraid that I'd be doing her a disservice if I allow it to continue. I'm just heartsick about this. I fear that I've lost my little Puddy.
Mary, the stories you have told reminded me of my dog Disney who had Canine Cognitive Dysfunction (dog alzheimer's) and that is why I asked if she might be confused. When it came to going to the potty Disney became very confused and since I worked with her about going in the appropriate place she eventually associated me with going and would sometime drop and go at the sight of me. It broke my heart.

I'm so sorry that Puddy is suffering the same horrible thing. (((HUGS)))

[Catty1]

Awww, Mary...:(

Just wondering if she acted weird immediately after each dose of Epogen...

It's sweet but painful how she cried to you as if for help. "Mommy knows!"

Would a covered litterbox in the bathroom help at all? (or uncovered if that doesn't gross you out).

I hope Dr Lee has some insight - even over the phone. I know she is taking lots of meds already - just wondering if Omega 3-6 oil mixed in with her food would help? My boys get about 1/2 tsp each if that, mixed up in their wet food.

I am so sorry this is happening...I do hope there is another answer.

HUGS! :love::love:

ETA - I am at work, but I just HAD to try and look something up. This page is interesting, and I copied this part from it:


Breathing becomes less efficient at delivering oxygen to the blood, because the lungs become less flexible and the muscles involved in breathing weaken. This may contribute to problems such as tiredness on exercise, and altered behavior associated with senility.

http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/aging.html

Also, Cognitive Dysfunction Syndrome (CDS):

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/elderly/senility.html


The cat’s response to this stress is to show more obvious signs of CDS (e.g. anorexia, hiding, and/or upset of toileting habits).


The most commonly seen changes include spatial (space) or temporal (time) disorientation, altered interaction with the family, changes in sleep-wake cycles, house-soiling with inappropriate urination/defecation, changes in activity, and/or inappropriate vocalisation (often displayed as loud crying at night)

Mary - in the second link, scroll way down for Max's case story. This article is in small print, but it does list treatment options. Just scan for the parts relating for that; it's a lot to read.

If nothing else, print out both links and fax 'em over to Doc Lee. Also - and I am not making this up - both pages referred to the Omega 3 - 6 stuff.

There IS a drug too, but that's not what poor Puddy needs!

Just trying to picture her with a wee kitty nebulizer for her doses of oxygen! :-)

[Medusa]

Awww, Mary...:(

Just wondering if she acted weird immediately after each dose of Epogen...

It's sweet but painful how she cried to you as if for help. "Mommy knows!"

Would a covered litterbox in the bathroom help at all? (or uncovered if that doesn't gross you out).

I hope Dr Lee has some insight - even over the phone. I know she is taking lots of meds already - just wondering if Omega 3-6 oil mixed in with her food would help? My boys get about 1/2 tsp each if that, mixed up in their wet food.

I found this online; she has nearly every symptom.

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/elderly/senility.html


I am so sorry this is happening...I do hope there is another answer.

HUGS! :love::love:

My bathroom is so small that, w/the little stairs that I put in there so that she can reach the sink, there's no room for a litter box. I'd have no way to get around in there. I'm going to leave a message for Dr. Lee to call me tomorrow morning. It's after the Epogen shots that she seems worse.

I found this online; she has nearly every symptom.

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/elderly/senility.html

[cassiesmom]

Thoughts and prayers for Puddy and her Mom

[Medusa]

I just realized that Candace and I posted the same link. I'm so stressed that I don't even know what I'm doing any more.

[Donnaj4962]

Oh Mary, I am so sorry. Our thoughts and prayers to you and your dear sweet Puddy. I hope that you can get some rest tonight, and that Puddy sleeps also. (((hugs))) to both of you. :love:

[Medusa]

Oh Mary, I am so sorry. Our thoughts and prayers to you and your dear sweet Puddy. I hope that you can get some rest tonight, and that Puddy sleeps also. (((hugs))) to both of you. :love:

I'd give up sleep every night forever if I could have my old Puddy back.

[Catty1]

Mary - I did an ETA on my post. Did you look at the second link, with the story of Max waaay down the page?

If nothing else, it may give you hope.:love:

[Medusa]

I just got off the phone w/Dr. Lee and he feels that Puddy may benefit from taking Selegilene which is used for Alzheimers patients. He said that it isn't approved for cats but then neither is Ametryptilene and it has been used successfully w/cats for behavior issues, so at this point in time, I feel I should at least give it a try. He also feels that giving her high doses of omega 3 fatty acids would be beneficial. I have some 3V caps that he gave me and I squirted some on her food this morning but she turned her nose up at it so Dr. Lee is going to give me some in a bottle that I can squirt down her throat. He said that it would probably be at least 10 days before I see any noticeable change but what else do I have but time? I've tried everything else. He also said that I can give her Ametryptilene at night to see if I can reverse her nocturnal habits. I don't want to keep her drugged so I'll see about that. He said that if I don't give it to her during the day that she should sleep fine at night and then be more alert during the day.

Please keep up the prayers for my Puddy girl. I've got to get my heart and head congruent before I make the ultimate decision concerning her. I walk a fine line here between wanting to improve her quality of life and simply wanting to keep her alive for my own selfish reasons. I've cried so much these past couple of days that I've given myself a screaming sinus headache and my face looks as though someone punched me. I'm going to keep trying w/Puddy until I run out of options or until I see that she no longer wants to be here.

[pomtzu]

Fingers and pooch paws crossed here in Delaware. :love:

[Catty1]

HUGS!

Too bad you can't squirt in the Omegas with the other squirty stuff.

Max the cat (in the second link I posted) went on the same drug. Just maybe the Omegas might work well well enough that another drug or two could be lowered.


Give this a chance...and see what happens in a couple of weeks. If she does a lot better, then you will feel better about what you are doing.

[Medusa]

HUGS!

Too bad you can't squirt in the Omegas with the other squirty stuff.

Max the cat (in the second link I posted) went on the same drug. Just maybe the Omegas might work well well enough that another drug or two could be lowered.


Give this a chance...and see what happens in a couple of weeks. If she does a lot better, then you will feel better about what you are doing.

I know, I wish I could combine the squirts, so to speak, but the aluminum hydroxide gel is milky (it's like Milk of Magnesia) and the other is oily, so it probably wouldn't mix well. Dr. Lee said that he hasn't seen any success w/the omega fatty acids in cats but he's more than willing to accommodate me. He said "Been on the internet again?" and he kinda chuckled. I admitted that I had and I told him about Max that was posted on the site and he said "Well, the internet is good and bad, Mary, but you're doing a great job and I'm willing to try if you are." That's all I needed to hear. I'm definitely going to give it a good try w/the drug, 10 days isn't all that long, and I'm going to wait even longer. As long as she isn't suffering and/or in pain, I'm going to keep on trying.

Also, I posted in General that I just noticed (duh!) that Dr. Lee has been giving me a hefty discount on the Epogen. It normally costs $48.50 + tax for each syringe but he's been giving it to me for $37.50 tax included. I didn't ask for the discount; he gave it to me on his own. He's quite a guy that Dr. Lee. Too bad he's married; he's quite handsome, too. Doggone it anyhow! LOL :p

[ChrisH]

Prayers & positive thoughts continuing for Puddy, and you too. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/CwmmawrJet/Smiles/Hugs2.gif

[momtomany]

Mary we will keep the prayers going for you and Puddy. I hope that these medicine will give you back quality time with Puddy.

[Emeraldgreen]

Please keep up the prayers for my Puddy girl. I've got to get my heart and head congruent before I make the ultimate decision concerning her. I walk a fine line here between wanting to improve her quality of life and simply wanting to keep her alive for my own selfish reasons. I've cried so much these past couple of days that I've given myself a screaming sinus headache and my face looks as though someone punched me. I'm going to keep trying w/Puddy until I run out of options or until I see that she no longer wants to be here.

You have taken such good care of Puddy, the best that is available and I can only imagine how hard this has been on you. I really do think that you will know 'when' it's time. You love her so much and if it were time, you'd know. Just follow your heart. This new treatment sounds promising and maybe it will help her turn a corner. I guess one day at a time is the only way to approach this.
Prayers going out to you and hoping that you will be kind to yourself and rest in the thought that you are trying so hard to 'listen' to Puddy and it's the best that anyone can do.
Prayers going out to sweet Puddy that she will be able to recover from what is happening and be the girl that you know so well. :love:

[Medusa]

I'm feeling more hopeful today. I was a wreck yesterday. Just knowing that I have some hope makes me feel better. I've had to help pets to the Bridge before but I always knew that it was an act of kindness but in Puddy's case, if I did it now, I'd feel like her executioner. It isn't that I'm not ready, it's that I know she's not ready. If I give this drug and the Omega fatty acids a good try and she hasn't improved, then I'll know what I have to do because living her life sitting on the bathroom countertop or underneath my bed while her tongue is sticking out just is not a quality life. But, as I said, I'm hopeful now and hope is all I need to keep me going.

Thank you all so much for your continued prayers and your kindness. It's what's keeping me going, that and my sweet Puddy's little face.

[Taz_Zoee]

Mary, I know you will do what is best for Puddy. It will be difficult, but the right decision.
Why can't they live forever? I know when that time comes for me to send my Tazmoe to the bridge, I will find comfort here with my PT family. People who know what you are going through and can relate on many levels.

I will be hoping these last efforts will help Puddy feel better soon and keep her with you for many more months (heck, maybe even years!:)).

[Medusa]

Mary, I know you will do what is best for Puddy. It will be difficult, but the right decision.
Why can't they live forever? I know when that time comes for me to send my Tazmoe to the bridge, I will find comfort here with my PT family. People who know what you are going through and can relate on many levels.

I will be hoping these last efforts will help Puddy feel better soon and keep her with you for many more months (heck, maybe even years!:)).

Thank you so much for that. I've made some pretty good friends here on PT, you included, and I think the world of all of you and value your friendship and encouragement. I just got in from Dr. Lee's; picked up her new meds, so off I go to start the process. That's if I can reach her and drag her out from under my bed. These meds aren't cheap either. (What is nowadays, though.) I've had a talk w/my Fur Posse and told them that they might all need to get jobs but so far, I've not gotten a good reception. Go figure. :rolleyes:

[slick]

Mary:
I have not posted in awhile but please know that I read this thread and pray for you and dear Puddy every day. All fingers and paws crossed here that the new meds work.

slick :love:

[Medusa]

Poor girl gagged something fierce and has been choking and vomiting ever since I gave it to her this morning. It smells so foul so I imagine that it tastes the same. I'm not giving it to her any more. The Selegilene is going to have to be enough. I can't stand seeing her go through this. She's been through enough. I feel awful. Sweet girl tried to make it to the litterbox, too, and just couldn't. (When she vomits, she runs to the litterbox.) I don't know how they treat cats w/the Omega fatty acids. I've put it on their food and they won't eat one bite of it and if they can't keep it down either, then what's the point. She's still upstairs vomiting. Great. Now all she needs is to get dehydrated. One step forward, two steps back.

I just now tried to get her to lick a little bit of a fudgesicle. Whenever I have an upset stomach, chocolate ice cream usually helps me and she loves her fudgesicles but she licked it a couple of times and turned away. Poor girl, her face actually had vomit on it, it was in her eyes and everything. I've never known a cat to retch like that. The house reeks of vomit and Omega fatty acids, which smells like sweaty feet and fish. This just really upsets me. This cat is never going to trust me again.

[Catty1]

HI, Mary - that's awful! Is it a "pure" Omega 3 - 6 or is it mixed in a fair amount of oil?

Gosh...you might just want to try salmon 3 - 6 oil - make sure from the store it is "stinky" - and just put it on her food. Or give her a bit of canned salmon with the oil every so often, or even get a small salmon fillet, steam it, break into small pieces, and freeze it.

I wonder if there is such a thing as yummy omega treats?

To be honest - when I first started my boys on it, I had to mix cheaper stinky wet food with their regular wet and Omega oil to get them to eat it. After a while, I was able to leave it out.

I hope the Segreline helps!

[Medusa]

HI, Mary - that's awful! Is it a "pure" Omega 3 - 6 or is it mixed in a fair amount of oil?

Gosh...you might just want to try salmon 3 - 6 oil - make sure from the store it is "stinky" - and just put it on her food. Or give her a bit of canned salmon with the oil every so often, or even get a small salmon fillet, steam it, break into small pieces, and freeze it.

I wonder if there is such a thing as yummy omega treats?

To be honest - when I first started my boys on it, I had to mix cheaper stinky wet food with their regular wet and Omega oil to get them to eat it. After a while, I was able to leave it out.

I hope the Segreline helps!

She wouldn't eat her wet food this morning at all. Part of the problem is that she's now nocturnal, so she eats at night and then doesn't want the wet food when I feed the rest of the Fur Posse. So I'll try her wet food tonight and see if she'll eat it then. She refuses to eat anything but Fancy Feast, the little diva that she is, and then in only small portions. The amount of oil that she needs, it's a 3-V w/fish oil and vitamin E, would overpower the wet food and I'm sure she won't eat it. I've thought about having the pharmacist put flavoring in it; he said that he has chicken and fish flavoring. Puddy doesn't like fish at all unless it's broiled tilapia or halibut, again diva tastes. :cool:

[Catty1]

She wouldn't eat her wet food this morning at all. Part of the problem is that she's now nocturnal, so she eats at night and then doesn't want the wet food when I feed the rest of the Fur Posse. So I'll try her wet food tonight and see if she'll eat it then. She refuses to eat anything but Fancy Feast, the little diva that she is, and then in only small portions. The amount of oil that she needs, it's a 3-6 combo, would overpower the wet food and I'm sure she won't eat it. I've thought about having the pharmacist put flavoring in it; he said that he has chicken and fish flavoring. Puddy doesn't like fish at all unless it's broiled tilapia or halibut, again diva tastes. :cool:

The pharmacist putting in fish flavouring sounds like a good idea. And maybe cut her dose down for now...at least she will be getting some of it.

BROILED! lol - yes, a little Diva! :D How are her spirits?

[Medusa]

The pharmacist putting in fish flavouring sounds like a good idea. And maybe cut her dose down for now...at least she will be getting some of it.

BROILED! lol - yes, a little Diva! :D How are her spirits?

She hates anything fishy unless, as I said, it's broiled halibut or tilapia. Her spirits are so-so. I could hear her tapping around all night and a couple of times she really beat feet to get to the litterbox or the faucet but she didn't come up in bed w/me. Ever since she peed in the bed, I've been nervous about that anyhow but, hopefully, that was a freak incident and won't happen again. She did play w/the Cat Dancer for a few minutes, so that's encouraging. She's still upstairs gagging right now. :(

[jenluckenbach]

Poor Puddy. I know how they act when something tastes foul. :(

Is it possible to just pop the gel cap in her like any other medication? (just a thought)

[Medusa]

Is it possible to just pop the gel cap in her like any other medication? (just a thought)

I thought about doing that, too, but the gel caps are big. She has a difficult time even swallowing half a small tablet of something. Both Dr. Lee and I thought that the liquid pump would work better for her. Wrong. I think I'm going to forego the oil for the time being and see how she does on the med. As it is, I have to squirt other stuff down her throat twice a day. She's finally calmed down now so I'm going to just let her sleep. What a journey this has been.

[Emeraldgreen]

I'm sorry to hear about Puddy's reaction to the Omega oil. With regard to giving it to her in other forms, my cats do not go for the fish flavoured suspension either. What about a transdermal gel for her ear? I have no idea if the Omega can be turned into a transdermal gel or not though.
I hope that she will be able to get some rest in the meantime and feel well enough for supper tonight.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Mary, I'm sorry to hear that Puddy is becoming senile.:( I sure hope that the new medicine will help her. My cats didn't like the Omega liquid fish oil either so I also stopped using it. The food that they're eating already has some in it any way. Lots of prayers and positive thoughts are being sent her way. Please take care. (((HUGS)))

[emily_the_spoiled]

I used to give one of my foster's the omega-3 oil that was unflavoured. You should be able to buy this at your local specialty pet store or online. Unfortunately it is usually not something that PetSmart or PetCo carries.

BTW I have seen the Seligine do incredible things for humans with Alzhiemer's so here is hoping the same thing will happy with Puddy

[greendoor678]

I hate to say this, but Puddy sounds absolutely miserable. I know you want to do what's best and not give up, but her quality of life sounds as though it is diminishing due to all of the meds she is getting trying to help her.

[jazzcat]

Oh, poor Puddy. How is she today? How are you?

[Medusa]

Oh, poor Puddy. How is she today? How are you?

I'm doing ok and Puddy seems to be doing ok, too. She fights me tooth and claw when I give her the half pill of Selegilene. I'll finish out the supply and ask Dr. Lee if it comes in liquid form. I've never had a problem pilling her before so I'm thinking that the pill must be bitter because she salivates and foams after I give it to her. She came up into bed w/me for just a few seconds last night as if to say "I know you freak out if I don't come and say 'hi' so here I am. Bye." LOL

[Medusa]

I hate to say this, but Puddy sounds absolutely miserable. I know you want to do what's best and not give up, but her quality of life sounds as though it is diminishing due to all of the meds she is getting trying to help her.

I have to give these new meds a chance. Dr. Lee said I probably wouldn't notice any change for at least 10 days, so I've got to be patient. I'm not going to give her the Omega oil any more. It just isn't worth making her sick. The shots and subQ's are easy enough so we'll see. She slept most of the night last night, so that's encouraging, too, especially for me since I've been running on empty for a couple of weeks now.

[jazzcat]

I would say that her bad experience with the bitter pill has made it even harder. I don't blame her. Hopefully you can get it in a liquid.

Back when Ripley was 10 and Jazz was a kitten he got violently ill right after I gave him a pill with peanut butter on it, his favorite. It wasn't the pill that made him sick it was a blood infection that was triggered from the URI he caught from Jazz. The uri was what I was pilling him for. Poor guy almost died and was at the vet for a week. Anyway he never forgot about getting sick after eating that peanut butter pill and will run away when he smells peanut butter, even six years later. I believe cats have a better memory than elephants.

[Medusa]

I believe cats have a better memory than elephants.

Amen, sista!

[Medusa]

I've been having trouble w/my jaw again and just couldn't eat dinner this evening, so after I went to bed tonight I laid there for quite a while, tossing and turning, then I realized that I was hungry, so I made half a sandwich. I like Buddig chicken and Puddy adores it but lately her appetite has been so-so. I brought the sandwich upstairs into the bedroom to see if she would smell it and come out from under my bed and voila! You should've heard those little paws scuffling! Then she came up onto the bed and just stared at me, so I gave her a little piece of chicken and she scarfed it down. I gave her another piece. Scarfed it again. So I kept tearing off little pieces and she essentially ate my half sandwich. LOL I had some low fat chocolate milk and after I drank it, she put her face right down into the glass and licked the sides. (Remember, she's a choc-o-holic like her Mom. Mmm, fudgesicles....)

I don't know why I felt compelled to tell you this. I just took it as a good sign, I guess, and wanted to share it w/you. I post when I'm stressed and sad over her, so I thought I'd post something positive for a change. Living alone, I don't have anyone to share these things with unless I call someone and if I bother them with "Puddy ate some chicken", they're gonna think I'm nuts. LOL Anyhow, thanx for listening to my ongoing saga about my Puddy girl. I appreciate all the comments and encouragement from so many of you.

[Catty1]

Awwww.....you and your Puddy can share eating in bed. :)

Great news!

[slick]

LES:(:(:( but happy tears. I'm visualizing this whole scenerio and have a big smile on my face. Nice jammies, by the way. ;)

I live alone too and yes it's hard sometimes. With the small troubles I've had with Max lately, I've only shared it with one friend who is an extreme animal lover and understands just as much as PTers.

Sweet, sweet Puddy! I sure wish I could meet you. :love: This is a good sign and I hope this means you are on the upswing.

{{{hugs}}} Mary. You are stronger than I'll ever be.:love:

[pomtzu]

Good for Puddy!!! I check every day for any posts about her, and when I don't see any, I start to get concerned. (You'd think she was mine!) Fingers, toes, and poochie paws still crossed in hopes that she continues on a positive path. I think of both of you often!!!! :love:

[mamaducky]

Mary, you're right -- we absolutely DO care that Puddy ate chicken!

I've been so stressed-out and overwhelmed by other stuff (long story) that I scarcely have time to lurk around, much less post on PT, but whenever I have a minute, I always pop over here and check on Miss Pudwah. I know it feels as though it's one step forward, three steps back sometimes, but there really have been a number of pretty encouraging moments scattered in there recently, and I'm going to keep praying that those good moments become the rule rather than the exception!

Meanwhile, please don't forget to take care of yourself. I worry about what effect this situation is having on your health -- which I know hasn't been top-notch recently anyway. I know that's easy to say and hard to do, but do try to get some rest and make some time to do something that's relaxing and enjoyable.

Much love,
Diana

[Medusa]

Ok, just a few minutes ago she decided that she now wants water out of the tub faucet. Lovely. She was in the tub meowing, so I thought "Uh oh, she thinks the tub is her litterbox now" but she she had her mouth up to the faucet. I cannot let water drip out of the tub; that isn't easy and besides, I don't think I can make it just drip and a steady stream of water out of that faucet would spell trouble. So I lifted her out of the tub and put her on the sink countertop and she drank the water there. (To think that drinking out of the bathroom sink faucet is now normal! LOL) What concerns me, though, is how weak her meow is. She sounds like a little kitten. She's going to get her Epogen injection in a few minutes, so I'm sure she's going to be mad at me again but it has to be done.

[Donnaj4962]

I am so glad to see that Miss Puddy are some chicken! That is wonderful! :)

How did the shot go?

I know that having her in bed with you and watching her enjoy that sandwich was so comforting. I can see your smile and hear your loving words to her as I type this!

[Catty1]

Um, Mary - you might want to amend your update line...it sounds like Puddy ate ALL of your sandwich! (well, the chicken part, anyway!) :D:love:

[katslady]

I am new to Pet Talk,and have been reading about Puddy. I just want to wish you and Puddy all the luck in the world. You are a great mom and I know she is happy to have you.Our prayers are with you. katslady

[Emeraldgreen]

PUDDY ATE SOME CHICKEN!!! *does happy dance in the den* :):):)

These are all of Puddy's supporters doing a group hug!
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/emeraldcreek/Hugs.gif

[Medusa]

As I mentioned previously, she acts as though she wants to drink out of the tub faucet but, obviously, I can't arrange that. It can't drip like the faucet can. I had just finished my bath tonight and she jumped into the tub while it was still draining. :eek: I'm sorry but I had to laugh. She was so shocked! She kept running in place, trying to get out and jump onto the toilet, so I picked her up and placed her there. She bellowed for a good 5 minutes afterwards, as though she was insisting that I turn that bath faucet on but no deal. Here are a couple of pix of her sitting on the tub. See what I mean about her tongue hanging out most of the time? I know some of you think it's cute but it unnerves me. Oh, she's back on the tub now, crying. Look at her wet tail in the first and second pix. LOL

[Catty1]

Hmmm...didn't this whole Puddy thing start with wondering why her tongue was hanging out? (Maybe not, my memory is not great on this). Was the reason found out?

It could just be the result of all she's gone through: "BLEH!"

You said she was BELLOWING for five minutes? At least that's closer to a hiss than she's been for a while. ;)

Hugs to you and pretty Puddy.:love::)

[Medusa]

Hmmm...didn't this whole Puddy thing start with wondering why her tongue was hanging out? (Maybe not, my memory is not great on this). Was the reason found out?

It could just be the result of all she's gone through: "BLEH!"

You said she was BELLOWING for five minutes? At least that's closer to a hiss than she's been for a while. ;)

Hugs to you and pretty Puddy.:love::)

Yes, it was her tongue hanging out first that got me worried. Dr. Lee said it could be a number of things, one of which is her gingivitis. It feels better if the tongue is hanging out. Another is senility. She's upstairs carrying on now, jumping down from the toilet and crying, then jumping back up and crying. Poor confused little girl. I wish her senility meds would kick in.

[Medusa]

Now she's in the tub, sitting under the faucet, her voice growing hoarse from meowing so much. Boy, am I ever tempted.....LOL

In the first pic, she's saying "Why won't the water drip? It drips from the sink faucet." Second pic: "Where's Mom? She needs to turn this thing on." and third pic: "I'll sit here all night if I have to". Yep, she'll have to.

[columbine]

Maybe something's making her feel hot or thirsty even when she really isn't? :confused:

Love, Columbine

[kittykatharine]

That is so silly :-), she really looks like she is saying she will wait all night for the faucet to start dripping. She really is a beautiful girl. The eating of your chicken sandwich really seemed to me like a good sign. Cats eat when they feel good, so she must have been feeling nice. I looked online for reasons for cats to let their tongue stuck out and the overwhelming response was gingivitis, like your vet suggested. Mary, you and beautiful Puddy are always in my thoughts and prayers. I hope everyday for improvements! :D:love::love::love:

[Catty1]

I wonder...if you went to a dollar store or something and got one of those rubber shower heads that fits over a faucet (no hardware - just putting the correct end over the faucet).

Maybe THAT would allow it to drip?

Have you tried turning the sink tap on when she is in the tub?

Silly girl! Hard to say if this is senility or Tortietude!;)

[Medusa]

I keep the sink faucet dripping all the time. I know it's the senility. I just put in a call to Dr. Lee to ask if the Selegilene comes in liquid form and it doesn't but they're going to have it compounded and delivered to me. I don't know how much good the pill is doing because she fights me so much that, by the time I get the pill in her, it's so soft and mushy that I doubt it's making much of an impact. Another sign of senility is night time crying and pacing, which she did most of last night. Sigh. So I turned the tub faucet on full blast, quickly turned it off again and then she went in the tub and drank the water that had pooled near the drain. That seemed to satisfy her. (So now I have to make sure that the tub is absolutely spotless, no bath oil residue, etc.) I had to do that several times but each time she drank and then went back under her bed. Not my bed, her bed. She's switched rooms again, too. I've never had problems pilling her until I squirted that *&%^& 3V liquid down her throat. Now she fights me. It hasn't been 10 days since I started her on the Selegilene, so once I get the liquid, I'm going to start the 10 days over again unless I feel she's in pain. She eats her Purina Cat Chow just fine, so I don't think the gingivitis is bothering her all that much. Dr. Lee is afraid to put her under to clean her teeth and I'm afraid, too.

[Emeraldgreen]

I had an idea while getting ready for work today. What if you put the new fountain you purchased for Puddy in the tub? I know you already leave the sink faucet running but since she is still insisting that the tub faucet be turned on, maybe this would be a temporary solution. I know she gave the fountain a thumbs down the first time but maybe she will accept it rather than no water at all in the tub. It might be too kookie of an idea though. lol

[Medusa]

I had an idea while getting ready for work today. What if you put the new fountain you purchased for Puddy in the tub? I know you already leave the sink faucet running but since she is still insisting that the tub faucet be turned on, maybe this would be a temporary solution. I know she gave the fountain a thumbs down the first time but maybe she will accept it rather than no water at all in the tub. It might be too kookie of an idea though. lol

You and I think alike, Lara. LOL I tried that and she gave it a thumbs down. I blast the water from the tub faucet, then she gets in and sits in the tub, doesn't care if she gets her fur all wet on her bottom. She looked up at me as if to say "Now how am I supposed to drink my water when this thing is in the way?" She slept most of last night, thank goodness, so I was able to catch up on my rest since I was able to sleep in today. She only had me run the tub water twice. Let's just hope she doesn't decide that she wants to drink water from the toilet. That could get ugly.

Thank you for the suggestion, though, Lara. It's so nice to know that my PT friends are actually thinking of Puddy and her welfare. :)

[emily_the_spoiled]

Would she drink water out of a bowl placed in the tub?

[Medusa]

Would she drink water out of a bowl placed in the tub?

I wish. No, she won't have anything to do w/water dishes or fountains now. It's so odd. I thought that perhaps she liked the taste of the water pipes so I put water in an iron skillet but no go. I guess it's just her senility, sweet girl. I can deal w/it but I'm pretty much stuck at home; can't plan a trip or anything. I was going to visit my sister in PA but there are so many instructions that I'd have to give my cat sitter that I don't think she can handle it. Plus she's begged me not to make her give Puddy any injections or subQ's, which I wouldn't ask her to do anyhow, but my cat sitter works so to ask her to be up all night, turning on the tub water and listening to Puddy tap tap tapping on the floor all night wouldn't be fair.

[Medusa]

In my last post, I wrote that she wouldn't have anything to do w/her water dishes or her fountain. Well, just a few minutes ago, she drank out of her fountain. Not a lot, just a few little sips, then she went into the bathtub and meowed for me to turn on the water. She had been licking her fudgesicle while I was sitting on the floor holding it for her, flunky that I am, and she was standing by the water fountain, looked over at it as though she had never seen it before, took a few sips and that was it. I guess she read my post and decided to prove me wrong. I swear. :confused:

[kittykatharine]

Yea for Puddy! Hopefully she is warming up to the fountain idea or maybe she is just proving you wrong :-). Sweet Puddy, I am thinking about you everyday. I am so glad she likes your fudgesickle, that gives her some nourishment and bonding time with you. :love::love::love:

[jennielynn1970]

LOL! Gotta love kitties. I bet she did read your post! She's smart! Cats probably know way more than they let on to us they know!

Big hugs to you and to Puddy! Hope you get more sleep now!

[Medusa]

The Selegilene arrived today and the pharmacy flavored it w/chicken flavor for me. Hopefully, I'll be able to get that into her w/no problem. (Sure, Mar.) This pharmacy is ok in my book. They included a Catdancer w/my order. I opened the box and, for a second, I thought perhaps I had opened someone else's delivery by mistake. They deal w/compounding for animals a lot, I guess, so I called them right away to tell them how much I appreciate their kind gesture. If anyone ever has to use a pharmacy for compounding, Roadrunner in AZ is pretty darned good!

[Medusa]

Puddy was up most of the night, crying in the bathtub, the echoes sounded like the Grand Canyon. She got her first dose of the liquid Selegiline yesterday. I don't even know why I'm writing this. I guess maybe just sharing it helps. Sorry.

[critters]

I reread 5 or 6 scattered pages of your post, trying to refresh myself on Puddy's problems, but I didn't read all of them. I'd bet Puddy's deaf, which would explain why she's so loud. My MamaCat, who's also deaf as the proverbial post, sounds like she's in the same room even when she's downstairs and at the other end of the house! LOL Could she have been objecting to being locked in the bathroom? As for the drip, my tub does it by itself, but I wonder if you could put a piece of aluminum foil or plastic wrap over the tub spout and put a little hole in it, making a drip out of a bigger stream of water? I'd try some stupid ideas like that to make her happy; she needs to drink, and at ancient ages I've been known to do lots of foolish things to make them happy!!

[Medusa]

I reread 5 or 6 scattered pages of your post, trying to refresh myself on Puddy's problems, but I didn't read all of them. I'd bet Puddy's deaf, which would explain why she's so loud. My MamaCat, who's also deaf as the proverbial post, sounds like she's in the same room even when she's downstairs and at the other end of the house! LOL Could she have been objecting to being locked in the bathroom? As for the drip, my tub does it by itself, but I wonder if you could put a piece of aluminum foil or plastic wrap over the tub spout and put a little hole in it, making a drip out of a bigger stream of water? I'd try some stupid ideas like that to make her happy; she needs to drink, and at ancient ages I've been known to do lots of foolish things to make them happy!!

No, Puddy isn't deaf. Her cry is so loud because she's in the tub/shower and it echoes. I also have a deaf cat and, believe me, she's loud. LOL Puddy drinks the water that's pooled at the drain and I give her subQ's so I know she's getting enough fluids. It's the senility that makes her cry and keeps her up at night. Also, she isn't locked in the bathroom. That's where she wants to stay when she isn't under her bed. She can roam freely upstairs all she wants. My vet suggested that I keep her isolated from my other cats because he thinks she's now too confused and fearful to be around them and I agree. I brought her downstairs w/me this morning, took her into the enclosed patio room which used to be her favorite hangout. I held her for a while and we looked out the windows together to bird watch, etc. but as soon as I put her on the floor, she ran out into the hallway and then just stood there as if she didn't know where to go. If this new med doesn't show signs of improvement in her in two weeks, then I guess I'll have to let her go, as insanely sad as that makes me. I just feel that I need to try every option and go down every avenue before I do it. Right now, she clings on to me for dear life when I pick her up. How will I ever be able to tear her away from me should the time come when I have to? It breaks my heart just to say it.

[Emeraldgreen]

I'm sorry things aren't improving. :( Maybe in a few days, the Selegilene will kick in. And as you said, if she isn't getting better, only worse, it may time to let her go. But I'm praying that this new med will help turn her around. Please let us know if there are any changes. {{{{HUGS}}}}}

[jazzcat]

I really hope you see some improvement from the new meds. It does sounds likes she very lost and confused. If the meds don't work I can certainly understand letting her go. Since I went through this with Disney I know how heartbreaking it can be but at this point it sounds like quality of life just isn't there.

[Catty1]

Mary, Puddy certainly knows who YOU are, who Mom is. And you're right, how could you put her to rest when she clings to you like that?

This maybe was suggested back in the thread - but have you had her read by Brody's Mum, or Nancy?

I don't have any $ for a few days, but I would help you to get a reading from both of them, to maybe give you some perspective.

{{{{hugs}}}}

Come on back, Puddy...come back, little girl :love:

[Medusa]

Mary, Puddy certainly knows who YOU are, who Mom is. And you're right, how could you put her to rest when she clings to you like that?

This maybe was suggested back in the thread - but have you had her read by Brody's Mum, or Nancy?

I don't have any $ for a few days, but I would help you to get a reading from both of them, to maybe give you some perspective.

{{{{hugs}}}}

Come on back, Puddy...come back, little girl :love:

Yes, I did have a reading by Nancy. I spoke w/her at length twice and she really didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know. She said that Puddy was "dried up". True. She's in renal failure and needs subQ's. And she said that she's tired. Again true. She's anemic. While she had insight, it is what I already knew. I'm not putting her reading down at all; it just didn't give me any more info that I could use.

[Catty1]

OK, I remember now.

Maybe get a second one by Brody's Mum...she might pickl up other things...like, how much does Puddy know about what is going on, as in how aware or out of it is she?

Poor wittle girl. I hope the liquid starts working soon. Give her lots of gentle hugs for me please. :love::love:

[Medusa]

I can't take much more. I've always been pretty strong but I've cried more in these last couple of months than I think I've cried my entire life. It seems all I do is cry. My son has been asking me to visit him in L.A. and I've always said "people first" but how can I leave her? If my son was ill, I'd be out there in a heartbeat if he needed me but I can't leave Puddy w/a catsitter or board her. I'm just so torn up inside. My poor little girl is lying under the bed or in the bathtub day after day after day. I'm assuaging my conscience by trying the Selegiline but I feel deep in my heart that it won't work. Who will guard my house when I leave for the day? As I'm walking out the door, I always say "Puddy, watch the house for Mommy". I can't take it! I can't take it!

[slick]

OH Mary, I'm sitting here at work with tears streaming down my face. :(:( I feel helpless and want to reach out and give you a geat big {{{hug}}}. You know, we all want to do as much as we can for our babies but we also need to take care of ourselves and our mental and physical health. If you are not alright, how can you take care of others??? Listen to me, that's the #1 rule I need to learn but it really is true.

None of us can give you the right answer, only you and dear Puddy can come to the right conclusion. In the meantime I'm sending lots of prayers to you and I'm asking God to wrap His arms around you and give you the strength to get through this, whatever the outcome is.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are stronger than I will ever be.

slick :love::love:

[jenluckenbach]

How heartbreaking this is. :( Prayers for strength ans peace ar coming your way.

[momtomany]

Prayers for you and Puddy are all I can offer. I am so sorry that you are going thru this.

[pomtzu]

Poor Puddy and poor Mom. Everyday I check in to see how everything is going - I sure wish it was better. Maybe the new meds will kick in and you'll see some improvement - Lord knows you've given her your all. I know how helpless you feel, but you really have to take care of yourself! Sometimes it's easier if our furkids make the decision so we don't have to. I've been thru both scenerios, and even tho neither is "easy", we don't have those self-doubts and what-ifs, since it was taken out of our hands. Whatever happens I'm sure that Puddy knows she has the best Mom a kitty could possibly wish for. Please know that I - along with so many other here - have you and Puddy in my prayers everyday.

[jazzcat]

Just heading out to spend the day with my Dad and wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you and Puddy. Lots of (((HUGS)))

[Donnaj4962]

Aww, Mary. I wish I could just give you a great big hug! (Puddy, too!)

I know that you are sad, and that you only want to do what's best for Puddy. You will know what is right and when.

God Bless you. I will continue to pray for you and Puddy and all of your other furposse.

(((hugs))))

[Catty1]

{{{{hugs}}}}...Whatever happens, Mary, know that you have done and are doing everything you can for dear Puddy.

I hope for her sake as well as yours that the med starts working in the next few days. I think you said you were starting the 10 days all over again?

It might take til 12 or 13 before you notice any change...I know it is SO hard to be patient, but Puddy deserves every chance and you are giving her that. :):love:

[zippy-kat]

{{hugs}}

You are always so supportive in your responses. I wish that I had eloquent words to instantly comfort you. Regardless, please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

You will do right by Miss Puddy. I know it's a heart break either way but you will do right by your girl. And we will support you in your decision(s).

{{hugs}}

[sasvermont]

Mary, the one thing we CAN do for our pets, when it is time, is to allow them to leave this world in a rather comfortable state. We cannot do that for humans. If it is her time, and only you and Puddy know that, then allow her to have peace. She doesn't sound happy to me. I could be wrong.

Anyway Mary, we will all support your decision. You have my nod to allow Puddy to be at peace with her illnesses. We are all going to go.... it may be her time.....

(((((((((((((((((Mary)))))))))))))))

[shais_mom]

I too like the other have nothing to say that will take the pain away. A magic pill that heals them either.
You are so caring and sweet to everyone, I'm so sorry you are going thru this.
You will do what is right for you and Puddy.
you are very strong.
I wish you luck and lots of hugs and love in your decision.

[carole]

Mary part of loving her is knowing when to let her go in peace and you will know, you really will,i realize how heartbreaking this is for you and i feel your pain, it is around the corner for me too, take comfort in knowing what a wonderful meowmie you have been to puddy and you know you are amongst friends who care for you and understand 100 per cent, giant gentle hugs to you both, and hang in there Puddy girl,if you can.

Mary i just wanted to add something, what helps me with my Ash is knowing that he has had a really good life, i know i have given him the best care, love i possibly can, it does not make it any easier, and when his time comes i will be heartbroken as you are,but it helps me deal with it, i know i am not there yet, but i am preparing myself for the inevitable, don't be so hard on yourself and remember just what a great kitty mum you have been to her and what a great life she has had, that is all any kitty can ever ask for, again i am thinking of you, and sending you hugs and love.,and i hope this can bring you some comfort at a time that is unbearable for you.

Mary it was my mother who made me think this way, sometimes i would discuss with her how i cannot bear the thought of either my mum or dad leaving me on earth, and she would always say to me, remember we are elderly and we have had a good life, keep that thought in your mind when the time comes, so i have adapted that way of thinking with my Ash, i hope you can with Puddy.

[Emeraldgreen]

Mary, I had planned to post again to offer support and to say that I too hope that you know that we are all here for you if you decide that it is Puddy's time. You will know what is best for her. But I stumbled across something tonight and I want to tell you about it. I've gone through this whole thread and I don't think it's been mentioned but please forgive me if it has.

Tonight I was researching online for ways to help make Jimmy healthier and I ended up on an IBD site that led me to another site with regard to B12 deficiency. I am so interested in this as I think Jimmy may very well be suffering from this but I was even more interested in what I was reading because Puddy popped into my mind instantly.

I will include the link to the sites but will also include some quotes below that I think could be relavent for Puddy.


What can cause deficiency of Vitamin B12 in cats? Anything that causes excessive drinking and/or urination (diabetes, hyperthyroidism, kidney disease, etc.) can deplete B12 and the other B vitamins as they are “washed out” of the body. Giving sub-q fluids could deplete vitamin B. Chronic diarrhea can also deplete B12 as most B-12 is lost in fecal matter. Cats with an inflamed gastro-intestinal tract (such as cats with IBD) may not absorb B12 properly as it’s absorbed in the intestines. Vitamin B12 deficiency can cause anemia, neuropathy, other neurological issues, etc.

Puddy falls into two of these categories with kidney disease causing excess drinking and the sub-q fluids she receives.
And the last sentence about B12 deficiency can cause anemia and neurological issues it seemed like it could fit.

Those quotes above came from this site (http://meowmeowmom.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/be-true-to-b12/).


Cobalamin (Vitamin B12) is a water-soluble, cobalt-containing vitamin with an important role in biochemical processes referred to as single carbon transfers. During these reactions, functional units such as methyl groups (-CH3) are transferred onto or between biologically important compounds. Cobalamin is a co-factor for at least three enzymes that carry out these types of reactions, acting as a transitional carrier of the single carbon group. A typical reaction catalyzed by a cobalamin dependant enzyme, methionine synthase, is illustrated in figure 1. Single carbon biochemistry is an area of great interest in the human population, as deficiencies in the activity of these enzymes may be associated with hyperhomocysteinemia. Hyperhomocysteinemia is a recognized risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Deficiency in cobalamin may also be associated with demyelinating neuropathies, dementia and megaloblastic
anemia (Pernicious Anemia) in human patients.


I'm not certain if this last sentence is saying that the dementia is associated in humans or both animals and humans. But since Puddy seems to have this, it was another red flag.


Cobalamin is non-irritant and may be given subcutaneously or intramuscularly, most clinicians deliver it subcutaneously


Vitamin B12 is stocked by all vets in injection form and is often prescribed to promote appetite, and help with anemia where a deficiency of vitamin B12 is the suspected cause.


And from the first site, I read that it is an option to inject the B12 into the bag of Lactated Ringers so a cat can receive it when they get their usual sub-q's. And from what I've read, it's not expensive.

The above quotes came from this site (http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin.shtml).

It's a bit harder to find symptoms for cats with B12 deficiency than people so I googled just B12 Deficiency symptoms and found these symptoms among many: (p.s. the below info came from this site (http://ezinearticles.com/?Vitamin-B12-Deficiency-Symptoms&id=373089).)
Nausea, insomnia, depression, dizziness, hallucinations, loss of memory and inflammed tongue! These all make me think of Puddy. She is awake all night, lying on that cool sink countertop, maybe because she is nausceous or dizzy. Her weird behaviour could be dementia or loss of memory and hallucinations. And the inflammed tongue is what really made me interested since she keeps sticking hers out. Maybe she is trying to 'cool it off' by sticking out of her mouth.

I wish I could look up more stuff but my hubby has kind of put a curfew on my computer time! LOL I feel like I'm 12. But I have been spending alot of time online lately so I promised to be off by 10:30 tonight.

I support you in any decision you make and pray that Puddy will be comfortable soon, in whatever way possible. I don't know if any of this info is of any help but I wanted to pass it along. {{{Hugs}}} :love:

[Kirsten]

Poor little Puddy, and poor you, Mary!!! :(

Maybe a test for B12-deficiency would really be worth a try?

Keeping the two of you in my thoughts,
Kirsten

[Medusa]

I apologize for not posting lately about Puddy. So many of you have been so helpful and encouraging, I don't want you to think for a moment that I'm ungrateful. I know that I've been remiss in extending birthday well wishes and prayers for those who have suffered tragedies and are experiencing pain in their lives and I apologize for that as well. I've just been physically and mentally exhausted, so much so, that I fell down the stairs the other day and got bruised up pretty good. I keep a baby gate at the top of the stairs in order to keep Puddy isolated from the rest of the Fur Posse. I can't put the gate at the bottom of the stairs because there are posts in the hand railing that the cats can squeeze through and go upstairs anyhow. Well, I always lift my legs over the baby gate rather than unlock it and remove it because I felt that was safer to do. I was wrong. I was so exhausted that I was careless; my foot caught on the gate and down I went. Fortunately, I only went half way down because I managed to grab onto the railing but I hit my back and ribs and the baby gate hit me in a very delicate area, if you get my drift. (It got caught between my legs.) It hurts a little to breathe and it's now painful to go to the bathroom, so Puddy and I make quite a pair. Plus I've been dealing w/this painful jaw and my surgeon told me that I can do one more round of antibiotics and, if it doesn't work, then we have to reassess. I know what reassess means: surgery.

I was nearly to the point of having Puddy PTS; I even called my local vet to talk to her about it because, even w/a shortcut to Dr. Lee's, it's a good 45 minute drive which will seem an eternity for such a task as I would be doing and I would probably lose my resolve. When I called to talk to Dr. Lee about it, I was told he's on vacation again and won't be back until Monday, so I talked to my next favorite vet there and he told me something that startled me. He said that the Selegiline usually takes 6-8 weeks before it starts working. I said "What? Dr. Lee said 10 days." He paused and said "Well, I guess he was thinking of the best case scenario and it's possible, I suppose, but really, this is a 'big picture' drug. You have to look at things long term". I was in my car when he told me this and I started crying so hard that I had to pull the car over. If Puddy didn't have chronic renal failure while operating on one kidney, anemia, gingivitis and a growth growing near her spine, I'd say that 6-8 weeks isn't that long. But she does have all those things and 6-8 weeks is terribly long. It isn't like Dr. Lee not to be a straight shooter, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He may be exhausted, too, and I don't begrudge him a vacation. I left a message for him to return my call early Monday morning and I'm going to mention the B-12 shots to him and if I detect anything in his response that doesn't sound right to me, then I'll know that Puddy's time has come.

Having lived alone for 12 years now, I've learned to carry burdens w/out complaint but things are so much easier to bear when you have a partner, even a roommate who can share your sorrow or, in this instance, look at Puddy and say "Yes, Mary, you're making the right decision" or "No, Mary, I'd wait". I'm having to use my best judgment and trust my instincts, which have never failed me before, but then, I've never observed senility in any of my pets before. This is by far the cruelest of conditions because animals can't talk and let us know if our definition of quality of life meets their definition. This is what has caused me so much inner turmoil, wondering whether I should wait just one more week or one more day and agonizing if I'm putting her through misery while waiting.

So. If after talking to Dr. Lee tomorrow I feel worse rather than better, then my decision will have been made. I spoke to my son on the phone yesterday and he said "Mom, I've talked to you 6 times in the last couple of weeks and all 6 times you've cried so hard. You can't keep going like this and neither can Puddy".

[pomtzu]

I was nearly to the point of having Puddy PTS; I even called my local vet to talk to her about it because, even w/a shortcut to Dr. Lee's, it's a good 45 minute drive which will seem an eternity for such a task as I would be doing and I would probably lose my resolve. .

Wow - pretty intense reading first thing in the morning........:(
I hadn't wanted to mention this before, but WHEN/IF you do decide to let Puddy go, would your vet come to your house? Maybe it's not an option and maybe you wouldn't want it that way, but it could be less stressful for both of you. I am fortunate to have a vet that does just this if the situation allows and it's not an emergency situation.
But of course we are all hoping you don't have to make this decision and she'll start showing improvement.
And please take care of yourself - and be CAREFUL!! All the posse needs you and you can't take care of any of them with a broken hip - or more!

[GILL]

Please next time open the gate. We use one between the TV room and kitchen and it is so easy to get caught on them. Let alone at the top of stairs.
The Crew is still praying and pulling for Puddy and you.

[Catty1]

Prayers for the best outcome for you and Puddy; I so hope she shows some improvement, as at least you would feel relieved.

Give her a kiss on the forehead for me.

{{{{hugs}}}}

[Kirsten]

Mary, it's easy to see how hard this is for you, and I totally understand! (((HUGS)))

I'm so sorry to read that you fell, and that you're in pain now. I hope you'll feel better soon.

You're in my thoughts. Please give Puddy some lovies from me if she wants to.

I'm sure you'll know in your heart when it's time. You can see it in their eyes when they're ready...

Kirsten

[Medusa]

I talked to my local vet about B12 after reading Emeraldgreen's post and she feels that Puddy would benefit from all the B vitamins and not just B12. So I stopped by and she gave me a syringe free of charge to inject directly into the Ringer's lactate bag for Puddy's subQ's. Otherwise, it burns upon injection and I don't want to cause her any more pain. She said it should also help w/her appetite, which is virtually nonexistent. She hardly touches her Purina cat chow, which she always loved and she won't eat Fancy Feast at all now. She likes tiny pieces of Buddig turkey meat and she slurps on a fudgesicle, that's it.

Here's what really upsets me, though: Dr. Lee told me it would be at least 10 days before I probably would see results from the Selegiline. (It'll be two weeks tomorrow.) The other vet said 6-8 weeks. The compounding pharmacy said 4 weeks and my local pharmacist said 2 weeks. My local vet said that she's only known cases of dogs being on it and she's never seen success w/it. So what am I doing then? How are we supposed to make an informed decision when there is such a difference of opinion about the efficacy of this drug? I'll have a real heart to heart w/Dr. Lee on Monday and, as I said before, if I don't get the answers that I want, then I'm going to release Puddy from this hell that I think I may be putting her through, even though I think she isn't in any pain. If I'm right, then Puddy and I will have been vindicated. If I'm wrong, God forgive me.

[Catty1]

She has been on it two weeks? When did you start the liquid form?

I wonder if the different time lines you have been told come from people who have actually USED it on an animal and seen results (aside from the person who used it on dogs and saw no difference, which doesn't mean it doesn't work at all - just not on some dogs she saw).

I hope the B vitamins perk her up.

I pray that Puddy turns the corner soon, and can enjoy her life a little more.

[Medusa]

When I checked her cat chow dish this morning, I could see that she had eaten, not a lot, but given that she hasn't been eating any of it at all, I'm somewhat encouraged. She still uses the tub as her litterbox, though. She spends a lot of time in that tub, even sleeping there. I have to clean her up a lot because she has litter caked to her bottom and she leaves a trail wherever she walks. Yesterday morning I heard her walking from her room to the bathroom, then she stopped and walked into my room. She used to hop into bed w/me in the morning and let me know that it was time to get up but this time she just walked in and stopped. I thought "She doesn't know where she is" so I called her name and said "Come on in bed w/Mommy" but she just turned around and went into the bathroom.

I feel so bad about her self imposed confinement, so I wrapped her in a towel and took her downstairs to the enclosed patio thinking that we'd do a little bird watching. Well, there must have been a hawk nearby because there wasn't a bird to be seen or even heard. So I took her w/me to the outdoor patio and sat down in a chair w/her still wrapped in the towel. She didn't seem anxious at all; she looked around a little but only for a minute. Then I could tell that she wanted down and there was no way I was going to put her on the ground, so we went back inside and I took her to the safety of her bathroom.

It's when she has the lucid moments such as described above that makes me have hope but when she's out of it, she's really out of it. Anyhow, just thought I'd fill you in on the latest.

[Catty1]

Mary...just maybe the med is starting to have an effect...and the B vitamins too.

Wishing you and Puddy increasing good moments!:love:

[Medusa]

Mary...just maybe the med is starting to have an effect...and the B vitamins too.

Wishing you and Puddy increasing good moments!:love:

That's what I'm hoping, Candace. When I cleaned litter boxes this morning, there was a pee clump in her litter box BUT Creamsicle, the little sneak, got into Puddy's room this morning. I heard her crunching on cat chow and thought it might be Puddy but it was Cgirl. So I can't say for sure if the pee clump was Puddy's or Cgirl's except that it was at the very edge of the box which is where Puddy likes to pee for some reason. I'll tell ya, for a CH baby, Cgirl sure manages to get around, undetected, too.

[carole]

Mary my vet has just put Ash on Anaplex, it is a steriod and vitamin D pill, this is to boost his appetite, like your puddy, he eats enough to feed a mouse, however this has only gotten really bad in the last few days, so far not a great improvement, but it is early days yet.

I can well understand where you are coming from with Puddy, i am almost in the same place with my Ash, i wish you both all the best and know i am always here for you, HUGS.

[Emeraldgreen]

I found a name for the inflammed tongue regarding a B12 deficiency and it is called 'Burning Mouth Syndrome'. If this is what she has, it makes so much sense that she adores those fudgesicles because not only are they yummy but they are wonderfully cold!! And I was thinking about the tub faucet. When I turn my tub faucet on cold, it is sooooo much colder than the sink and develops this condensation on the metal and frost even. I wonder if Puddy is preferring the tub faucet because it may be colder. Maybe she would like some icecubes to lick or a shallow bowl of icewater or since she doesn't 'do' bowls ;) maybe you could put the plug in your sink and put some water in there with a few ice cubes and see if she goes for it.
p.s. and if she is seeking out colder things, she might eat chilled Fancy Feast or other things.

[Medusa]

Wow, Lara, I don't know why I don't think to look these things up myself. My brain is so fried that it didn't even occur to me. I did try the ice cubes but, as you said, she won't drink out of a bowl. She no longer goes onto the sink countertop now; it's strictly the bathtub. She's too short to reach the tub faucet, so she drinks the water that pools near the drain, poor little girl. Maybe now that I started her on these B vitamins she'll discontinue that behavior. Thank you so much for telling me this.

P.S. I love PT! Where else can I find such wonderful friends who would take time out of their busy days to look up info like this for me?

[Medusa]

I decided to put ice cubes in a bowl in the bathtub and I guess that was the combination I had missed. I'd tried ice cubes in her water bowl, ice cubes in her fountain, her fountain in the bathtub but I'd never tried ice cubes in a bowl in the bathtub. (Getting all this?) You should've seen her drink! So I can see it now: I'll be doing ice cube runs in the middle of the night as they melt. That's ok. Anything's better than seeing her drink the pooled tub water. I wonder if all this has to do w/giving her the B vitamins. I don't know how quickly they work but it sure seems like that's the ticket. Lara, I don't know how to thank you. Maybe it's a fluke and she won't want to drink out of the bowl again but it sure did my heart a world of good. This time the tears are tears of joy. Bless you!

[krazyaboutkatz]

Mary, I've been reading this thread but I haven't had the time to post anything lately. I'm so happy to hear that the vitamin B12 seems to be helping Puddy.:)

As you know my Starr has colitis and IBD and he's received many vitamin B12 shots as well as acupuncture treatments with vitamin B12. It's really helped him and has given him his energy level back. I hope that it'll do the same for Puddy. She continues to remain in my thoughts and prayers. Please take care. (((HUGS)))

As far as how quickly the vitamin B12 works, I noticed it almost immediately in Starr. He was running and playing the very next day and seemed to have endless energy.

[Catty1]

Oh, Mary...eyes stinging just a bit here...:) How wonderful to see Puddy drink and drink - which is really good for her, of course, with the kidney problem. And maybe some of her yelling is from the 'burning mouth' - who knows?

Lara, you are a GENIUS!

Hmmm....try the cold smooth wet food, maybe? Cold baby food?

I think there's some better news ahead....:D :love:

[Medusa]

I was just nodding off in bed when I heard "tap tap tap" on the floor and I thought "Ok, here we go. Another night of yowling or maybe I've got to do an ice cube run". But no! Puddy came scampering in my bedroom, up the little ramp that I made for her and into bed w/me! She only stayed a few seconds and then went into the bathroom and drank out of the ice cube bowl but this is the most encouraged I've been in a week or more. I don't know if the Selegiline is working or the B vitamins or both but whatever it is, I'm so thankful. I AM SO THANKFUL! Lara, again, thank you for taking over where my fried brain left off. Ok, so I'm off to get another round of ice cubes and I'm putting some Fancy Feast in the fridge to chill for tomorrow's breakfast for Puddy. :D<<< Never thought I'd be posting one of these smilies in this thread.

P.S. It just dawned on me that she hasn't yowled at all today!

[Catty1]

Think you could install a Puddy-size ice cube maker by the tub faucet? :D

Wow...Mary...I guess it IS darkest before the dawn...and remember the Beatles: "Here comes the sun" :love::)

[jenluckenbach]

WOW, such promissing reports! Way to go Puddy! :D

[pomtzu]

That's great news to read this morning. It's heartwarming to see you post in a positive way, and I can almost picture you looking somewhat relieved and optomistic. Hopefully Puddy will continue to improve - poor girl has been thru sooo much! As has Mom!!
I don't mean to sound disrespectful with what I'm about to say - but why hasn't your vet been able to see the whole picture of what's going on with Puddy?? You'd think with the tongue/mouth issue would have been a clue in regard to the B12 - and it appears to be working for her. Maybe he was too focused on one problem and completely missed another?
Whatever - I'm just glad someone found this info for you and that it appears to be helping. Still keeping fingers, toes, and poochie paws crossed in hopes that Puddy continues to improve!!

[Medusa]

I don't mean to sound disrespectful with what I'm about to say - but why hasn't your vet been able to see the whole picture of what's going on with Puddy?? You'd think with the tongue/mouth issue would have been a clue in regard to the B12 - and it appears to be working for her. Maybe he was too focused on one problem and completely missed another?

You're not being disrespectful. Believe me, this is something I intend to discuss w/him tomorrow. He's been on vacation all week. I've always been his biggest champion; he has always appeared to have such good instincts. To be fair, I don't know if it's the B vitamins or the Selegiline or the combination of both that has worked and I'm not willing to risk Puddy backsliding to find out by process of elimination. I'm inclined to think that it's the B vitamins, though. (It isn't just B12; it's all the B vitamins that I'm giving her because my other vet, the local one, said that she feels Puddy could need all of them.) Maybe my vet is burning out, too. When I first took Puddy to him a couple of years ago, she was screaming in pain. He said that he had never heard a cat scream like that. My regular vet had retired and the new owners of the clinic, there were 4 of them, looked at her x-rays and watched her for 3 days in their hospital and still couldn't come up w/a diagnosis. I finally said "Either you figure this out or I'm taking her out of here now", which is what I did. Dr. Lee had saved Yodie's life so I took Puddy to him and, as soon as he pulled her x-ray out of the envelope, he said "She has an inflamed colon, you know that, right?" I said "No, I don't know that. How is it that you can see that so readily and 4 other vets couldn't?" He said "I can't explain that but she needs surgery now". When he opened her up, he said she had peritonitis. Why those vets couldn't see that, I have no idea. So, I'm willing to cut Dr. Lee some slack but not much because if her lack of B12 could've been solved months ago, then she's been put through this misery needlessly.

I'll post again later. I want to see how she does w/breakfast. She didn't touch any of her cat chow during the night but I baked a chicken breast for dinner and gave her some and she ate quite a bit of it, so maybe she just had enough to eat and didn't need the cat chow.

[Medusa]

When I cleaned the boxes this morning, there was a pee clump and a poop. (I don't believe the things that get me excited now.) And this time I'm sure it was hers because there's no way Creamsicle could've gotten into her room.

She didn't eat the chilled Fancy Feast but I'm thinking that she just wasn't hungry because she had chicken for dinner last night and that filled her up. I'll try it again later. She kept the Selegiline down w/no problem this morning. Yesterday she threw it up just seconds after I gave it to her and I didn't have the heart to give her more later in the day, so we skipped a day. It just must taste awful even w/the chicken flavoring added. The way the pharmacist explained it to me is "The cherry Nyquil tastes better than regular Nyquil but it's still Nyquil". Makes sense. So I imagine that the Selegiline must taste pretty awful w/out flavoring.

Well, a friend is picking me up shortly; we're going to browse a flea market today. Sure hope Puddy will let me use the shower.

[Catty1]

Sure hope Puddy will let me use the shower.

Well...start the shower with her in there! (JK)

Glad things continue to improve. Puddy will be feeling happier too!

Dr. Lee - maybe he IS burning out, simply because he has superior skills, and so many will seek him out over other vets (even in his practice). Bound to happen. Not blaming you at all - I am sure MANY have done that for very good reasons; but it may be costing him.

I hope he takes a week OFF...and not to go to a conference. You might jokingly ask him if he has been to HIS vet for a checkup lately. I am sure he will be happy to hear of Puddy's improvement. :)

It's good that you have another vet to check with - no one person can know or think of everything.

Have a good time at the market. :)

[Kirsten]

Wow, that's great that she used the litter box!! Sounds like things are indeed improving a bit! I'm also glad to hear that she ate the chicken!

Good luck for your talk with the vet tomorrow! ;)

Kirsten

[Emeraldgreen]

Oh my gosh, what fabulous posts!! I'm so glad that your girl is improving in different ways. Who knows what it is but don't stop!! LOL How great to see that grinning smiley you posted.

In response to the post about your vet not finding this regarding Puddy's tongue, I just wanted to add that nowhere on the internet could I find this tongue/burning mouth syndrome in connection with cats, just people. But it does seem likely that if it is a symptom for people, it could certainly be one for cats too. And because so many of her other symptoms line up with a B deficiency, it makes sense. What I'm wondering though is why the levels of Vitamin B wouldn't show up on bloodwork if they were low. But in any case, from what I've read, it's safe to give and if the body doesn't need it, it can get rid of it. There is an issue with what is water soluable and what isn't and one site said that B12 is and another said it wasn't but your vet should be able to give you a clear answer. :)

It is so funny how little things can be so exciting but I too was cheering away in my den when I read about the drinking and the litterbox use and lack of howling. It is all such good news. And if I've been able to help, I'm so happy because you guys helped me a millions times more with Tiger and Jimmy etc.. That is the wonderful thing about PT. A place where we can share stuff and bounce ideas of each other and think about each other's pets during our day to day activities. It is neat and I don't know what I would have done without it for the past year, it helped so much.

p.s. I found some more stuff supporting the concept that what is first thought to be dementia may be a vitamin B deficiency instead. This again is from a site with regard to people but I think it's really interesting.


CHRONIC VITAMIN B DEFICIENCY

Vitamin B deficiency can sneak up on you, because it doesn’t have to create serious health problems right away. In fact, medical researchers have discovered that very often there can be no detectable signs according to scientific instrumentation, that you are experiencing a deficiency. For example, “memory impairment due to vitamin B12 deficiency can precede blood symptoms of deficiency by years. Evidence that vitamin B12 deficiency accounts for some cognition deficits in older people comes from a study that revealed abnormal short-term memory in more than two-thirds of clients with pernicious anemia…The researchers recommend that a diagnosis of senile dementia should not be made, even in the absence of anemia, until vitamin B12 status is determined biochemically.” (Hamilton, p. 476) This means that it is possible that certain mental disorders can be directly attributable to vitamin B complex deficiency, and it is easier to first start replenishing stores of vitamin B complex than to begin treating difficult mental illnesses with drugs, therapy or psychological counseling.

Since Puddy has anemia and was acting a bit demented (that sounds so mean-lol) it hopefully could mean that it may not be dementia but a side effect instead. I'm praying that this is the case.
And the highlighted 'blue' part answers my question about the blood work I guess. :)


Eat more vitamin B-containing foods — oats, barley, wheat bran, avocado, salmon, Brazil nuts and others.
I guess Salmon is the only thing in that list that would be appealing to a cat. I can't remember if it is one of your cats or one of Candace's that doesn't like salmon.


It took a while to create a vitamin B deficiency, so it takes a while to reverse the problem; with severe cases it can take a year or so, with milder cases it can take just a few days.


The above quotes came from this site. (http://chetday.com/vitaminbdeficiencies.html)

[Medusa]

Well...start the shower with her in there! (JK)

Glad things continue to improve. Puddy will be feeling happier too!

Dr. Lee - maybe he IS burning out, simply because he has superior skills, and so many will seek him out over other vets (even in his practice). Bound to happen. Not blaming you at all - I am sure MANY have done that for very good reasons; but it may be costing him.

I hope he takes a week OFF...and not to go to a conference. You might jokingly ask him if he has been to HIS vet for a checkup lately. I am sure he will be happy to hear of Puddy's improvement. :)

It's good that you have another vet to check with - no one person can know or think of everything.


Have a good time at the market. :)

Yes, my son said "And why isn't your vet finding out all this stuff for you?" He said that I've spent entirely too much money to not have all the info I need from my vet. On the one hand, I can see his point. On the other hand, Dr. Lee is human like everyone else. He saw things in Puddy that other vets missed. Lara found info that he didn't find because he says "Well, the internet is good and it's bad". I can't really fault him, I guess, but I do intend to have a talk w/him tomorrow morning.

As for the shower, Puddy insisted on sitting on the edge of the tub while I showered. I was afraid she'd fall in because I like HOT showers and, after a minute or so, she jumped down and sat on the floor by the tub. But as soon as I was finished, she jumped back up. Now she's under her bed again. She ate another slice of Buddig turkey meat for breakfast, so maybe she just doesn't care much for Fancy Feast. I'll try it again tonight, though.

[Catty1]

Mary, just a couple of quotes from Lara's post:


In response to the post about your vet not finding this regarding Puddy's tongue, I just wanted to add that nowhere on the internet could I find this tongue/burning mouth syndrome in connection with cats, just people.

And from a quote she quoted :) :

For example, “memory impairment due to vitamin B12 deficiency can precede blood symptoms of deficiency by years.

You found Sergeline through the net - used mostly for people, though use of it in dogs and cats is on the net also. But it sounds like this Vitamin B thing isn't even mentioned in cats on the net - so even if Dr Lee was a Google hound, he would have found nothing.

Just a couple of things to bear in mind when you talk to him.;)

[Medusa]

Mary, just a couple of quotes from Lara's post:



And from a quote she quoted :) :


You found Sergeline through the net - used mostly for people, though use of it in dogs and cats is on the net also. But it sounds like this Vitamin B thing isn't even mentioned in cats on the net - so even if Dr Lee was a Google hound, he would have found nothing.

Just a couple of things to bear in mind when you talk to him.;)

When I Googled it, the very first link had to do w/cats and BMS but, admittedly, there wasn't much info. Apparently, a vet had written a newsletter about it, so even if it's rare, some vets do know about it. Dr. Lee is always taking classes, etc. so he should also keep up w/what's online. I don't intend to attack him; that isn't my style. I won't be confrontational. I just want him to be aware of what's out there on the net and that can be found by people astute enough to look for it. He's said to me on more than one occasion "But then, I'm old". He isn't old by any stretch. He's younger than I am. He's still my vet and he's a specialist and I'll always remember the time that he gave up precious weekend time w/his sons home from college to do emergency surgery on Puddy because I was so insistent that the other vet call him for an opinion. Rather than give his opinion, he came in and performed the surgery. Yes, Dr. Lee's the man. No worries.

[Catty1]

OK. ;) But I still want to know if he has seen HIS vet for a good once-over! :D And when is the last time you took REAL time off, Young Man??? :p:D

[Medusa]

OK. ;) But I still want to know if he has seen HIS vet for a good once-over! :D And when is the last time you took REAL time off, Young Man??? :p:D


Trust me, he takes plenty of vacation. His office mgr. told me that he and his family were in FL this week. He just took a week off not too long ago as well. He's also cut back on his hours. I don't know what I'll do if he retires. When my first vet retired, I cried buckets of tears because I had just gotten Creamsicle, my CH baby, and I was scared to death to have her spayed because she's also deaf. Well, she didn't come into heat until she was nearly 6 years old and by that time I had found Dr. Lee. My first vet is the most compassionate man I've ever met and he LOVES cats and does it ever show. When he came out of retirement, I felt all my dreams had been answered. I had Dr. Lee as a specialist and Dr. LeBeau for the every day stuff. But Dr. LeBeau retired again after only two years back in his practice. He's had a bad back w/multiple surgeries and I guess he just can't be on his feet for too long. So I cried again. But his associate, Dr. Butera, is the one who told me to give Puddy all the B vitamins and not just B12, and she gave me the syringe for free. She's very sweet and compassionate as well. So I'll be going to her more often, especially since she's only 6 minutes away and Dr. Lee is 45 minutes away w/the shortcut that I found. W/gas prices the way they are and w/a stressed out and sick kitty in the car, if I can cut my drive time down, I'll do it. But Dr. Lee knows Puddy and her history and he loves her, I can tell. His eyes crinkle up at the corners and you can't fake that. I love the guy. If he wasn't married........

[Moesha]

I've been out of town since Thursday. The place we were staying didn't have internet service. Last night I finally took my laptop to the Krystal parking lot and logged on. Of course I could only read a few threads and one of them was this one about Puddy. I told my sister and she asked me why I would want to read about such a sad situation. I couldn't explain it. I just got home tonight and am so thrilled to read the latest developments! I hope things keep improving!

[Medusa]

I've been out of town since Thursday. The place we were staying didn't have internet service. Last night I finally took my laptop to the Krystal parking lot and logged on. Of course I could only read a few threads and one of them was this one about Puddy. I told my sister and she asked me why I would want to read about such a sad situation. I couldn't explain it. I just got home tonight and am so thrilled to read the latest developments! I hope things keep improving!

Thanx, Moesha. I know, even my son who loves me and all of my cats asked "How's Puddy or should I even ask?". A couple of my friends are surprised that I didn't give up long ago. I will NEVER give up. But there will come a time when I'll have to let her go. That's totally different. PT prayers and words of encouragement mean the world to me.

[ChrisH]

Although I don't post I check every day on Puddy and you and was so happy to read of the recent steps forward she is making, may it continue so. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/CwmmawrJet/Smiles/Hugs2.gif

Prayers & positive thoughts continuing.

[Medusa]

I just cannot believe the difference in Puddy. Ok, she doesn't want to socialize yet; understandable. She's been through a lot, especially this past week. Her quality of sleep has been awful, so she needs her rest. But she ate cat chow during the night, used her litterbox and drank water out of her bowl. She still insists that I keep the water bowl in the bathtub, so I'm not sure why that is but compared to how she was last week, I don't really care.

Dr. Lee did not call me this morning; I had to call him and when he got on the phone he asked "How's our patient?" and I started right in w/the debate about the vitamin B complex and B 12. His response surprised me. Before becoming a small animal vet, he was an equine vet and he said that B 12 was regularly administered to horses to make them run faster but that he was never a proponent of it. What that has to do w/Puddy and all her symptoms, I have no idea. So I told him of the immediate change in her behavior, appetite, sleep pattern, litterbox habits, etc. since the B complex injection into her bag of fluids and he said "Oh yes, we do that here" and I said "Why was this never mentioned as an option for Puddy?" and he said "I'm just not a proponent of it. You certainly can't hurt her but I've never known it to really help". I was floored. I said "The change in her is undeniable. I'll concede that perhaps the Selegiline is kicking in and maybe the combination of both is what triggered the improvement but I'm unwilling to stop the Selegiline to find out". He said "Well, I wouldn't advise that". Sigh.

Then I asked him about Burning Mouth Syndrome and he said "Mmm hmm...." I paused, waiting for him to say something but he didn't, so I took that as meaning he didn't know what I was talking about and it wasn't my intention to challenge or corner him. I truly wanted his opinion on it or case histories or something, anything but "Mmm hmmm". I told him that I originally called him months ago because Puddy's tongue had been hanging out of her mouth and it so concerned me and we thought at that time that it may have been due to her gingivitis. Another "Mmm hmm". However, since the B complex injection, she hardly sticks her tongue out at all now. When I told him that all this info was discovered on the internet, I got his standard reply about the internet being good and bad. Now, how is all this bad, I ask you???

We finished the conversation w/him saying "I'm for what works and if you feel that the B complex is working for her, then by all means, keep it up. There are those who feel that it's effective". I replied with "Well, I'm in that camp". He chuckled and said "Ok".

After I spoke to him, I called my local vet and told her of Puddy's improvement and she even sounded surprised but said "Oh! Good!" So I'll be picking up another syringe for her subQ's today. The thing that frustrates me about her office is that they only have one person on the desk at all times. It's difficult for her to book appts., take care of incoming patients, answer calls, do computer work, etc. w/out confusion. And they're always training new people, so they never know who I am. Sometimes I have to spell my name for them repeatedly; today I had to spell it 4 times and after all that, she asked "What is this about again?" I became impatient and said "Please, can you let me speak to someone who is familiar w/my case? This is important! I know I'm not Dr. B's only patient but this is very frustrating." She offered to have someone return my call but, historically, I get the call at the end of the day and this couldn't wait. I need those vitamins today and not after they close their office. Finally, Dr. B picked up the phone. They also only have 2 vet techs there at a time, which is also another problem. They've inherited a HUGE client base from Dr. LeBeau and they're overwhelmed. I understand it and I can be patient but if it's a matter of urgency, then I have to go to Dr. Lee instead. I don't want to go to him for routine things. I love Dr. B and she's nearby but unless and until that office starts humming, I'll have to continue w/Dr. Lee for all my vet needs. However, when it comes to surgery, Dr. Lee is the man. He has an anesthesiologist there at all times and so many vet techs and people working the front desk that I've lost count. To be fair, he has a large clinic w/5 vets on staff, so maybe my comparison of the two offices is somewhat skewed.

Anyhow, the most important issue is that Puddy has improved a lot and I'm feeling hopeful for the first time in weeks. I know that she won't be w/me forever but until the time comes that I must say 'goodbye', I want her to be as comfortable and happy as possible. If it wasn't for Lara and her research, Puddy probably wouldn't be here today. I was going to make that call if she hadn't improved. The way I see it, Lara's research and many prayers from my PT friends saved Puddy's life, if only for a little while. Life is good.

ETA: She ate her Fancy Feast this morning.

[pomtzu]

What great news to read that Puddy is still making strides in the right direction. :D
But how frustrating that Dr. Lee can't be more consistent. If he uses the B vitamins at his clinic, I wonder why he never gave you the option of giving it a try on Puddy??? :confused: He uses it but is not a proponent of it - doesn't make sense - unless I'm missing something! :confused:
All that counts right now is Puddy - and if it's working along with her other med - then keep it up. When she makes her way in to the sun room to catch some rays, it will all be worth it! :D

[Medusa]

When she makes her way in to the sun room to catch some rays, it will all be worth it! :D

I'm w/ya on all of it but this sentence says it all, Ellie. And if she can throw in a hiss for good measure, then I'll know that my Puddy is back.

[Kirsten]

That's great that Puddy keeps improving! :) What a great advice it was when Emeraldgreen mentioned the B12 deficiency!!

However, Dr. Lee 's reaction is a bit strange, but most doctors don't like it when their clients do some research on their own.

Anyway, it seems to help Puddy, and that's all that counts!

(Too bad that Dr. B.'s office sounds so unorganized, she seems to be much nicer!)

Kirsten

[Medusa]

I can't say any more right now. I'm too sick w/grief.

[gini]

Oh, how my heart goes out to you. I just feel that Puddy will always be close to you. She knew how hard you tried and how much love you have for her. She will stay close to fill your heart with love and try to ease your grief.

These times are like no other and I wish that I could say just the right thing to ease your pain.

I am so very sorry.

[pomtzu]

OMG Mary - I'm sitting here just sobbing. Nothing I can say will ease your pain, but please know that you and Puddy are in my prayers. :love:

[momtomany]

Mary I know everyone is in shock. Know that we all are here for you and praying. I am so sorry.

[GILL]

I am so sorry, we try and try but some times there are other plans for our babies.

[jennielynn1970]

Oh god, Mary, I am so sorry to be reading this. I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better.

Sweet Puddy girl, rest now, and watch over your meowmy, know that she is in terrible shock and grief. Know that you are now well, and whole, and that all of us on Pet Talk will be thinking of you and your family tonight and wishing you all peace.

Godspeed to the Bridge, dear sweet girl.

((((HUGS))))) to you Mary.

[shais_mom]

I'm so sorry for your Loss Mary.
(hugs)

[Kirsten]

What???? :eek:

OMG, Mary, I'm really shocked!!!! :( :( :( Things just looked so good for her, now reading this was the last thing I expected!! :( :(

I'm really really sorry, it must hurt so much, especially after you just started to hope that there's a turn for the better.

I'm so very sorry about your loss!

(((HUGS)))

R.I.P. little Puddy, you have touched many hearts here. Now be young and whole at the Bridge again. :love:

Kirsten

[kittykatharine]

Mary,

I am so very sorry for your loss. I have been following this thread for a very long time, and I was so shocked to see she crossed the bridge. Please know that you were the best mom any kitty could ever ask for and Puddy knew you loved her with all of your heart. This is the saddest thing I have heard in so long. I am so so so sorry. Please if you need to talk to someone, do not hesitate to send me a PM. I am sending you a great big HUG through the computer screen. Puddy will be missed a great deal. :love::(:love:

[Grace]

I am so very sorry. {{{{{Mary}}}}}

[carole]

Dearest Mary, my heart goes out to you, just know puddy is now at peace and it was her time to go, i often read that sometimes they appear to become really better and then go, i have no idea why, you were a great meowmie,you gave her the best life possibly could, and i know you are grieving right now,but in time you will see that it was just Puddy's time.

A big giant gentle hug to you right now,i wish there was something i could say that would help to comfort you,but i know your'e heart is sad right now, just know we are all thinking of you at this very sad time in your life.:love::love:

[Medusa]

I had to go to Dr. Lee's to pick up Puddy's Epogen syringes and Dr. Butera's to pick up her B vitamins, so I was going to go to Dr. Lee's first but something told me to do it the other way around. I went to Dr. B's and brought the B vitamins home and checked on Puddy and she was in her carrier curled up, looking cozy. When I touched her, she meowed but it was forced and I could tell that she was struggling to breathe. I didn't want to take her to Dr. B's because when I went into that office today, they were packed and there was the usual confusion and so I called Dr. Lee's office and said "Alert him that I'm on my way". Puddy never made a sound during the entire drive there. They took us right in as soon as we got there.

Dr. Lee came back into the room and said "I want to do a chest x-ray" and I gave my permission, of course. He came back a few minutes later and said "I gave her a shot to help her breathe more easily and to kill the pain. Her lungs are filled w/fluid. You have two options: I can drain her lungs or you can ease her pain." I said "Ease her pain?" and he said "Put her to sleep". I asked "If you drain her lungs..." and he interrupted me and said "I don't even know if she'll make it." I said "And if she does?" He said "There's no guarantee that it won't happen again right away". So I said "No. She's been through enough. Let's end this, Dr. Lee". Then I said "I need to be w/her and hold her while you do it" and he said "Ok". He brought her to me and I held her. She tried to stand up, she took one last breath as though she was trying to grab onto air; she let out a cry and then she got still. I said "I think she's gone, Dr. Lee". Apparently, the shot that he gave her took her; he didn't even have to start the IV.

He said "I'm sorry, Mary. Puddy was a fighter right up to the very last breath. She was amazing." I asked him how this could happen; she had been doing so well the last couple of days and I told him "You know I would've said something when I talked to you this morning if she had shown any signs of not being able to breathe". He said "Because she's been lying around so much, it was easy for the fluid to accumulate in her lungs. It happens to humans, too. It didn't just happen. It's obviously been accumulating and she just now showed signs of it". I asked if I killed her w/giving her too many subQ's and he said "Nooooo! It's because of your good care of her that she lived as long as she did. No, Mary, Puddy had one challenge after another. She just said 'That's it. I can't take any more'".

He showed me her x-rays and her lungs were completely filled w/fluid and she had fluid around her heart, too. He said that she gasped so hard for air and fought so hard for life that her intestines were filled w/air and he showed it to me on the x-ray. He said "She fought to the very last second. That was Puddy". He gave me a hug a couple of times and said "Please be careful driving home". I could tell that he just did not know what else to say.

So I came home and dug her grave before it got dark. By the time I was done I was pretty sore, even from last week's fall, so I thought I'd take a hot bath. Of course, as soon as I went upstairs, I saw the bowl of water in the tub and that got me started again. You'd think I'd run out of tears by now. I'll write her tribute later. I just can't do it right now. The sun is setting and the night has never been my friend anyhow. How will I sleep w/out listening for that 'tap tap tap' on the hardwood floor?

[jenluckenbach]

{{{{HUGS}}}}

What more can I say???

But I can cry with you, as hard as if she were my very own. She didn't want YOU to have to suffer the pain of this decision. She was quite a girl.

Puddy, try not to give the Big Vet in the sky too much CAT-itude. OK? :love:

Many people will be missing you, tonight. :(

[Catlady711]

I am so sorry to hear about Puddy. You really did everything you could for her and much more than many pet owners out there would have. You have no reason to think otherwise. My thoughts are with you.

[rosethecopycat]

So sorry to hear that Puddy had to leave your side.
When things are quiet, you will hear her 'tap tap tap' in your mind and know she's there. Until you meet again, One Fine Day.

Godspeed, Puddy.

[katslady]

I am so sorry! God bless you both.katslady

[Scooter's Mom]

Oh, Mary. I am so sorry. You did so much for sweet Puddy. I am sitting here crying. Please know that Puddy loves you and one day you will hear the tap-tap-tap again; even if only in your dreams.

((Hugs)) to you.

[Medusa]

You can read my tribute to Puddy as an ETA in my first post of the Cat Memorial thread. Thank you all again, my dear friends, for your wonderful words of encouragement, support and sympathy. I treasure all of you.

[columbine]

{{{hug!}}} :(

Puddy, next time you see your Meowmie staring at the night sky, rip it with your claw so a bit of Light gets through. It'll let her know you're back to your old self.

Love, Columbine

[Emeraldgreen]

OMG. I'm so sorry. This is my first time on the computer today and I couldn't believe what I was reading. :( I'm going to post in Puddy's Memorial post right now. {{{{{hugs}}}}}:(:love:

[moosmom]

Mary,

I just got home from work and read this. I am so SO sorry for the loss of your Puddy.

You will be in my thoughts and prayers, dear friend. I think you have my number. Please call me if you need to talk, If you want me to call you, PM me and I'll call you in a flash.

RIP sweet Puddy.

[Karen]

Puddy has a thread in Cat Memorial, it is here (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?p=206813)