Advice on chronic urinary problems..

[JustineNYC]

Hello everyone. I have a 4 year old Mackeral tabby cat that has had urinary problems for about 2 years. After about 5 visits to the vet where they were just giving me antibiotics because they said it was a common UTI, a dr said Irwins diet had to be changed. The dr squeezed his bladder and bloody urine came out with sand looking granules in it.

They put him on Hills C/d and he did well for a few months. The flare ups of not be able to urinate stopped. Then out of nowhere Irwin who is neutered, starts spraying. He used to do that when he couldnt pass urine. I went back to the dr and explained that I didnt think his urinary problems were fixed because he sprays when he is ill and it hurts to urinate in the litter box. The dr took x rays and told me his bladder was fine and it was probably just a habit. That was in March.

Last night, Irwin jumps up on the bed and squats and wham, red urine everywhere. It was like him saying, IM SICK AGAIN.

I took him to an animal medical center, and after 568$ I am still discouraged. Their doing a urine analysis, and blood work, the cat still has crystals and hes on CD.

I have to call back on Thursday and the dr will most likely change Irwin to something called "S/O" Is that better for him? He said they dont use CD anymore.

His X rays showed no stones, but the lining of his bladder is thicker then it should be. The dr said this is probably something chronic with him, and we can treat with anti inflammotories and the right diet.

What is the right diet? Any advice?

Sorry that was long! I love this little guy.

[catmandu]

MY CATS DID WELL WITH THE MEDICAL FORMULA, I CANT REMEMBER THE LETTER AND THE EUKANUBA CANNED VET FOOD.
GOOD LUCK WITH IRWIN, AND OUR PRAYERS ARE COMING FOR YOU BOTH!!!:cool::love:

[carole]

My lexie the black kitty in my siggy had a UTI about two years ago, thankfully because of PT i knew straight away to get her to the vet, she was diagnosed with struvite stones and put on Royal Canin SO, it was a challenge at first to get her to eat them, originally she was put on HILLS, she hated them and became contispated, i dislike Hills myself, Royal canin is supposed to be much more palatable, so far she has been fine, fingers and paws crossed, Irwins problems seem a little different to my lexie, she had no blood at all to be seen,so i am not sure if this would work for Kitty or not, ask your vet,but just wanted you to know i have had success so far, hope kitty gets better soon and stops spraying, sometimes stress or change makes them do that as well. good luck:)

[catnapper]

Welcome to my world with Pouncer. Life was one long circle of rushes to the vet, medicine, special diet. He was diagnosed with chronic cystitis and I was told to watch that he drank enough water. He was put on special food, antibiotics, steroids to help inflamation, and even a few rounds of valium to help de-stress him.

Round and round we went until he nearly died a couple times. I had enough! I had surgery to turn him into a girl cat (the female opening is larger, therefore crystals don't block and he doesn't get sick as often)

The surgery was in October. It was nearly $1,000. I'd do it all over again because I got my boy back. He's playful and bratty again, opposed to moody and hiding all day long. I still have to take him to the vet for sickness.... only this time instead of blocking he's going for UTI's, which males with this surgery are more susceptible.

[Grace]

Grady had an episode with hematuria and frequency back in May. After 2 separate urinalysis, X-rays and an ultrasound, he was diagnosed with both kinds of crystals. Tried him on almost every prescription diet on the market - he wouldn't go near any of them.

The important thing is giving them lots of fluids. So he gets regular canned food, to which we add about 2 cc of water for every feeding. We even give him water with a syringe - just squirt it in his mouth throughout the day.

Catty1 also suggested cranberry powder. That's been a blessing. I give him approximately 50mg each day - mixed in with his food. I think he likes it. And it did clear up the hematuria.

I know he should be on a special diet - but he is supposed to avoid stressful situations, and that food was a big stress to him.

[JustineNYC]

This is my little patient Irwin....

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g156/HomeDepotGurl/l_d642568a7cb365f10d758c31ad609002.jpg

Good news is he will eat anything, so whatever food they give me, he'll eat for sure and I can mix it with water no problem. Its just a matter of finding a food that wont make him sick.

Im curious, does anyone feed dry to their cats with urinary problems? I read to avoid dry food. Are the crystals ever really gone? Or when you have a cat like this, is it more about minimizing crystals and just trying to flush him out as much as possible.

I really hope the food switch will work. The vet said the S/O food neutralizing the urine. This has been a long battle. This all seems like a band aid over a gushing wound, and we havent gotten to the bottom of it yet.

I asked the vet what is the treatment if this is a chronic thickening of the bladder wall type thing he explained, and he said diet change and maybe low doses of anti inflammatories here and there. That doesnt sound like a 'cure'

The doctor also gave me supplements. He said some people believe the glucosamine helps with cases like this. Its called "Synovi feline" andits a joint care supplement powder.

Thanks for your posts and well wishes!!!

[catnapper]

Pouncer eats dry and wet. I give the wet because he simply won't drink enough throughout the day otherwise. I would prefer no wet food because it causes such a mess with the other cats in the house -- you can't give one cat wet food and not the others. You also can't give one cat different food than the others, so they all eat prescription food. And yes, the prescription food makes a HUGE difference. I noticed whenever I tried to save $20 a month by not giving prescription food, the following month I got a $250 vet bill because opuncer got sick.

You patient looks like mine :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/kasdesign/My-Boy-Pounce.jpg

[Catlady711]

Most cats, particularly males tend to have crystals in their urine. Most of the time it doesn't cause any problems, but once in a while it can. Things like stress, Ph balance upset, food changes, infections etc. can cause things to go haywire.

Did the vet that did the urinalysis happen to mention anything about the leukosites (sp?) or Ph balance? Leukosites tend to show infection, and an off Ph balance can lead to infections or stones. Antibiotics would take care of infections and there are meds to help with the Ph balance. My Cami takes one called MethioForm tabs.

There are two types of crystals, one can be dissolved with a special diet and the other can't. The one that can't is the Oxilate crystals. Did your vet specify which crystals your kitty has? http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_feline_oxalate_bladder_stones.html

At our hospital we use both Hills C/D and Royal Canin S/O with similar success, it's just a matter of which food the cats prefer. You're fortunate that your cat isn't picky. The pet store urinary foods do seem to have some effect on minor urinary problems, but major problems like your cat has requires a special diet which while more expensive will do a better job.

Wet food and plenty of water do help to keep things flushed out. Adding a pet water fountain may help encourage your cat to drink more water as well as using more canned food to add water to the diet.

There has been research into using glucosamine supplements with urinary problems and research suggests it helps. We do use that at our hospital as well although ours is Cosaquin. While I can't say for certain exactly what percent it helps with the problem, it doesn't have bad side effects, and has the added benefit of helping joints stay healthy as the cat ages.

Anytime there is an infection or irritation in the bladder the lining of it will be thicker, and may always be even after the problem gets resolved because of scar tissue.

As a precaution you may want to take regular urine samples to your vet, say like once a month for a while then maybe twice a year once things settle down. That way you are more likely to catch a problem before it gets bad.

In some cases cats can have cronic problems to which no one knows exactly how to 'cure' it. Best thing in those situations is to manage the symptoms as they pop up. I'm sure your vets are just as frustrated as you are with the whole situation with your kitty. Their job is to help animals and they also get frustrated when they can't fix everything.

I hope your vets can find the right food/med combo that helps your kitty from having frequent flare ups. Good luck.

[Jessika]

:o I'm very surprised they did manual expression when your cat obviously has large crystals... that can easily cause blockage and rupture the bladder :( Males especially block VERY easily. Poor baby :(

Though I don't normally recommend it, Science Diet does have good veterinary formulas for urinary problems as well as Purina too. Sorry I can't be of much help other than that!

[JustineNYC]

Most cats, particularly males tend to have crystals in their urine. Most of the time it doesn't cause any problems, but once in a while it can. Things like stress, Ph balance upset, food changes, infections etc. can cause things to go haywire.

Did the vet that did the urinalysis happen to mention anything about the leukosites (sp?) or Ph balance? Leukosites tend to show infection, and an off Ph balance can lead to infections or stones. Antibiotics would take care of infections and there are meds to help with the Ph balance. My Cami takes one called MethioForm tabs.

There are two types of crystals, one can be dissolved with a special diet and the other can't. The one that can't is the Oxilate crystals. Did your vet specify which crystals your kitty has? http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_feline_oxalate_bladder_stones.html

At our hospital we use both Hills C/D and Royal Canin S/O with similar success, it's just a matter of which food the cats prefer. You're fortunate that your cat isn't picky. The pet store urinary foods do seem to have some effect on minor urinary problems, but major problems like your cat has requires a special diet which while more expensive will do a better job.

Wet food and plenty of water do help to keep things flushed out. Adding a pet water fountain may help encourage your cat to drink more water as well as using more canned food to add water to the diet.

There has been research into using glucosamine supplements with urinary problems and research suggests it helps. We do use that at our hospital as well although ours is Cosaquin. While I can't say for certain exactly what percent it helps with the problem, it doesn't have bad side effects, and has the added benefit of helping joints stay healthy as the cat ages.

Anytime there is an infection or irritation in the bladder the lining of it will be thicker, and may always be even after the problem gets resolved because of scar tissue.

As a precaution you may want to take regular urine samples to your vet, say like once a month for a while then maybe twice a year once things settle down. That way you are more likely to catch a problem before it gets bad.

In some cases cats can have cronic problems to which no one knows exactly how to 'cure' it. Best thing in those situations is to manage the symptoms as they pop up. I'm sure your vets are just as frustrated as you are with the whole situation with your kitty. Their job is to help animals and they also get frustrated when they can't fix everything.

I hope your vets can find the right food/med combo that helps your kitty from having frequent flare ups. Good luck.

Thank you, your post was very informative!

I dont remember what kind of crystals they were unfortunately, with the urine analysis because the last one was Feb of 2007. I just remember the doctor telling me he had to be on the CD diet and I was happy that it seemed to work and a few months past where we actually did not need an emergency visit.

Irwin is already on a special diet and I can see the crystals in his urine (which is very dark btw) so that would sound like their Oxilate crystals then? The crystals not helped by diet? Unfortunately my boys arent water drinkers. My females fight over the water bowl and if its empty they will sit in the sink to give you a hint.

This is a new hospital we went to today that has treated some very ill cats Ive taken in off the street so I know their good. They did a urine analysis today and I get the results Thursday so Im sure Ill know more then. He said once we get a look at that, we can go forward with how to treat him. In the meantime he is on antibiotics, anti inflammatories and the supplements. Ill probably end up going back Thursday to pick up the S/O.

The doctor who used to treat Irwin retired so today I gave the new vet the whole story and told him to start from scratch and lets find out whats going on with this cat.

New doctor, new plan, so well see.

[JustineNYC]

:o I'm very surprised they did manual expression when your cat obviously has large crystals... that can easily cause blockage and rupture the bladder :( Males especially block VERY easily. Poor baby :(

Though I don't normally recommend it, Science Diet does have good veterinary formulas for urinary problems as well as Purina too. Sorry I can't be of much help other than that!

Im not sure if that was his intent. They all seem to feel the bladder during the exam, I guess for stones? The vet today laid him down and felt his bladder too. That day we got a little surprise.

Today the bladder was empty.

I saw what it looked like on the table, just like sand.....I cant imagine what that feels like to pass that. Ouch.

[Jessika]

There are actually a large number of different type of crystals, but the two most common being struvite and calcium oxalate. Most, if not all crystals, can be eliminated by specific dietary changes, so the best advice I can give is discuss with your vet about which specific crystals he has and then what diets work best to eliminate those types of crystals.

Calcium oxalate crystals are also common artifacts found from refrigerating urine samples (found some in my dogs in lab the other day from a sample a little over an hour old that I'd refrigerated for a little less than 30 mins), but can have diagnostic value as well. Since you say they obtained the sample from a manual expression and you can see them in his urine when he urinates it isn't likely they are artifact.

[Grace]

Irwin is already on a special diet and I can see the crystals in his urine (which is very dark btw so that would sound like their Oxilate crystals then? The crystals not helped by diet? Unfortunately my boys arent water drinkers. My females fight over the water bowl and if its empty they will sit in the sink to give you a hint.


His urine could be dark because it is concentrated, or that could be old blood. His urine should look like yours does - clear, pale yellow.

[columbine]

I'd suggest a second opinion, with urinalysis done by an in-house lab, which would probably mean bringing him to a major veterinary hospital that doesn't have to send the samples out for testing elsewhere.

Your vet needs to know what kind of crystals they are to know what to do.

In the meantime, there are a lot of different ways to encourage a cat to drink more water and help dissolve the crystals. A lot of cats really enjoy drinking from a water fountain that keeps the water moving. My little scaredycat was actually afraid of a fountain, but turned out to vastly prefer drinking from a glass bowl in the living room to drinking from a steel bowl in the kitchen! You just never know.

He now also gets a joint supplement called Cosequin, that turns out to also be good for urinary complaints - and HUMANS were the "guinea pigs!" Some smart doctor noticed that female humans who took glucosamine and chondroitin (the ingredients of Cosequin) for their joints stopped having such frequent urinary problems. It turns out that glucosamine/chondroitin strengthens the protective glycosaminoglycan (GAG) inner layer of the bladder and urethra, so cats who've had urinary problems in the past often get joint supplements because they help with that too.

Love, Columbine

[Anikaca77]

I don't know much about chronic urinary problems but I hope this new doctor will help your baby out. He reminds me of my Anika. Prays being sent that things will work out.

[Kirsten]

Hi Justine, and hi Irwin! :) Irwin is such a handsome guy!

What you describe sounds very much like my Luna's history, she started dealing with UTIs when she was 2, and was eventually diagnosed with struvite crystals.

You've already got a lot of information here, but what I'd like to add is that I think you should contact the vet who diagnosed the crystals and ask which kind of crystals Irwin had. That's important for the treatment. With struvite crystals (the ones Luna has), it's often that the pH-value of the bladder is too basic, so you can help the cat by adding an acidic supplement to the food (I have a paste for Luna called Uro-Cyt). With calcium oxylate crystals, it's the other way around, I think, but I'm not sure.

Additionally, Luna is getting homoeopathic remedies like Cantharis or Berberis when she has an episode, and it seems to help her to recover. Many others made some good experiences with Cranberry extract.

Judging from the fact that your vet recommended Hill's c/d, I think Irwin has most likely struvite crystals as c/d is low on magnesium. Low magnesium is always part of a struvite crystal diet.

Be prepared that Irwin might always have episodes where the UTI and the crystals return. These things can easily become chronic. It's the same with my Luna. It's important to watch these cats closely, as the crystals may cause a blockage, which especially may happen in male cats because of their longer urethra. That's why some males get their penis amputated, which really seems to help them.

Anyway, it's a long road to go, and many here are dealing with it. It's often frustrating, but you'll get a lot of advice and moral support here! :)

Kirsten

[carole]

Lexie's special food is dry only, she is not supposed to have anything else at all, she does drink plenty though,she does sneak the other cats food on occasion which worries me, they might leave a few biscuits and she is a real sneak , i cannot watch her 24/7, so far so good, been two years now, and her's are the struvite stones, yes you should find out from your vet which kind Irwin has, BTW what a beautiful boy he is indeed.:)

[Vio&Juni]

Irwin is a very handsome boy and I know how you feel that you can't help him.

We had the same problem with our Pichu for a few times, he had to be catheterized three times, next it was to be the surgery, same as Catnapper mentioned. The vet I took him to the last time suggested I feed him with food that makes his urine more acid - she suggested some kind of wheat grits or porridge - they call it kasha in Russian. I make a pot of grits with chicken good for one week for all three of mine, and just warm some up with some canned food every time I need to feed them. It was difficult to get Pichu to eat it (the other two that didn't need it, loved it), but finally he just accepted it. We also give them only distilled water for drinking, I don't know how much that helps, but it can't hurt.

I have to say that ever since Pichu started this new diet, he's changed so much. You can see it in his eyes that he's healthy, he turned into the mighty hunter, he's playful and loving. And of course, no more stinky spots in the house.

I really do not trust AT ALL the cat food producers - around March, a few months after I started this new diet, I got some diet food that was supposed to be "PH control" from a major cat food brand. "PH control" - yeah, who can check it anyway. A few days after I started giving poor Pichu the dry food, he got sick again. Luckily, I switched back to the home-made food quick enough.

[krazyaboutkatz]

I'm so sorry to hear about Irwin's problems.:( He sure is a handsome boy. My Storm was blocked 2 times and he then had to have the PU surgery to turn him into a girl. He was on Royal Canin Urinary S/O formula both canned and dry and he seemed to like it. I then started feeding all of my cats this food.

Unfortunately my cat Starr became very sick and now he must be on a grain free diet because he has colitis and IBD. My cat Pearl has also become allergic to grains. Now they're all eating Innova Evo canned and dry food which is a grain free food and they all love it. Both my regular vet and my holisitic vet said that Storm could also eat this food as long as I give him plenty of canned food mixed with water.

Storm's been on this diet for a little over a year and he's done very well on it. His last urinalysis was normal. He had the struvite crystals and he had also been having a few UTI's. Now he loves eating his food and he can't get enough of it. Since this is a high protein food, all of my cats have also lost of little weight so now they're in much better shape. My holistic vet also told me that sometimes grains can cause urinary problems in some animals so I'm glad that I made the switch.

When Storm was on the regular Innova dry and canned food which has rice in it, he did become sick and he developed struvite crystals again so I now know that grain free is the way to go. I hope that you'll be able to find the right diet to put Irwin on and that he'll do well on it. Good luck.:)

[JustineNYC]

Well I just spoke to the doctor and the good news is he said Irwins bloodwork was perfect. About the urine test, he said obviously the sample was very bloody, he said they didnt find any crystals which he doesnt necessarily believe, and the PH was normal. He said he isnt crazy about C/D, and he'd like to put him on the S/O, so Im going tomorrow to pick some up. Hopefully between the supplements, the new food and keeping him nice and hydrated, Ill see an improvement.

He asked how hes been doing on the medicine and supplements and I told him so far so good. I know he feels better because he is using the litter again.

Can someone direct me to the cranberry powder some of you use?

[Grace]

Well I just spoke to the doctor and the good news is he said Irwins bloodwork was perfect. About the urine test, he said obviously the sample was very bloody, he said they didnt find any crystals which he doesnt necessarily believe, and the PH was normal. He said he isnt crazy about C/D, and he'd like to put him on the S/O, so Im going tomorrow to pick some up. Hopefully between the supplements, the new food and keeping him nice and hydrated, Ill see an improvement.

He asked how hes been doing on the medicine and supplements and I told him so far so good. I know he feels better because he is using the litter again.

Can someone direct me to the cranberry powder some of you use?

I'm glad to hear things are somewhat under control.

I buy cranberry powder in capsules for human use. I got 90 for $10.59. I just pull apart the halves of the capsule and sprinkle a very small amount on some of Grady's food. Mix it in well, and he eats it without any trouble.

Then I put the capsule back together and continue to use it until it is empty. The capsules I buy have 800 mg in each - so you sort of have to estimate. Each capsule should last me about 2 weeks. I give him 50 mg each day.

You can get them at any Health Food store - I got mine at Meijers which is like a Target store. Probably in a pharmacy also.