Canine Epilepsy - Please help a very worried owner!

[Cody's Papa]

Hello all! My little baby boy Cody (http://dogoftheday.com/archive/2008/January/02.html) has recently had 3 seizures inside of 24 hours. The vet is fairly certain it's epilepsy; tommorrow morning, we will likely start him on Phenobarbital.

I'm already looking online for as much information as I can, and we've received quite a lot of information from our vet already. I'm just looking for a little comfort here - I'm scared out of my wits! Cody is only 4 years old, I'm very worried.

Anyone else out there live with dog seizures that can offer a little comfort?

[Taz_Zoee]

I have very little experience with it. But my Aussie, Zoee, has had what we believe to be seizures. Luckily hers are spread very far apart and so far are petit-mal. This past Easter morning was the most recent episode, and she had a couple that day. But my vet said since it's not happening more frequently there is not much to do at this time. She gave me some doggie valium for when she does have them. If they do become more often Phenobarb would be our next step.
Here is my thread I had about Zoee. Seizures (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=140583) The part about her seizure starts on post #11. Denyce suggests to try changing food, that worked for her.

Were these three seizures the only ones he has ever had? And what level are they? Can you describe what happens to him?
I'm asking these questions, because I'm thinking if it was the one and only time he may not need to go on the Phenobarb. But that also depends on the severity of the seizures.

[4 Dog Mother]

My dog Snoopy started having seizures when he was 2 years old. When they come like your puppy's did it is caused a cluster. Because he did have so many within the 24 hours, they will most likely start him on phenabarbital. Finding out what exactly is causing them is very difficult and can be very expensive. Even if they do a lot of testing they cannot always find an answer. For some dogs you can often find a trigger - a certain type of food, treat, a change in normal schedule. We never found one for Snoopy.

Snoopy did well for the first couple of years on the phenabarbital. But even taking it he would occasionally have a seizure - in the beginning he would even go 4 or 5 months without another seizure. Then they would start clustering again and we would have to increase the phenabarbital (which I am not spelling right). About 2 years after his first one they had to add potassium bromide. Lots of dogs live long relatively long normal lives with seizures.

The most important thing for you is to remain calm when he is having them. Do not try to put your hands anywhere near his mouth. His jaws will lock and he cannot open them so if your hand is in there, you will be hurting. I always petted Snoopy and talked calmly to him. It always seemed to help him. When he came out of the seizure he would be disoriented and would run into walls, furniture, etc. And he would be very agitated. We were also given Valium so if he started having them, we could give it to him and hopefully stop any further seizures.

Snoopy mostly had grand mal seizures. Which means he lost all control of his bodily functions. He would pee, poop and drool. As Taz_Zoe said there are different levels depending on what happens during the seizures. A friends dog would just stop and stare and not know what was going on around him. Another friends dog just had a seizure every 4 or 5 months so they didn't do anything. Sometimes it is easier putting up with the seizures than the side effects of the drugs.

PM me or post more and I will tell you what I can. Diana

[Cody's Papa]

I have very little experience with it. But my Aussie, Zoee, has had what we believe to be seizures. Luckily hers are spread very far apart and so far are petit-mal. This past Easter morning was the most recent episode, and she had a couple that day. But my vet said since it's not happening more frequently there is not much to do at this time. She gave me some doggie valium for when she does have them. If they do become more often Phenobarb would be our next step.
Here is my thread I had about Zoee. Seizures (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=140583) The part about her seizure starts on post #11. Denyce suggests to try changing food, that worked for her.

Were these three seizures the only ones he has ever had? And what level are they? Can you describe what happens to him?
I'm asking these questions, because I'm thinking if it was the one and only time he may not need to go on the Phenobarb. But that also depends on the severity of the seizures.
They were very severe grand mal seizures. Excessive foaming, loss of bodily functions, followed by a VERY agitated state of aggressive barking and confusion. He simply wasn't himself. All three lasted only 2-3 minutes. We haven't witnessed the last 2; they occurred while being monitored at the vet, but from what they told us, they weren't as bad as the original. He's been "clean" now for over 24 hours. The vet wants to see one more before starting him on Phenobarbitol.

They were the only one's he's ever had in 4 years.

[Taz_Zoee]

I was hoping Diana would see this thread and post. I'm glad your vet isn't just going to immediately put him on the Phenobarb. Who knows it could be several months before he has another one (I'm hoping this is the case for you). And like Diana said, the side effects of drugs can be worse than occasional seizures. I was very glad Zoee didn't have to be on it. BUT if they get worse then I will do whatever it takes for her.

I will be hoping Cody does not have any more clusters or even single seizures. I know, first hand, how scary they are. I also did as Diana said, just sat with her and pet her. Although, she would try to climb into my skin. She'd probably climb up on top of my head if I let her.

Maybe you could ask your vet for Valium just in case??

[joycenalex]

alex the wonder dog lived with idiopathic canine epilepsy for over 11 years. he lived very well, happily and long. he too would have grand mal seizures where he would lose consciousness, foaming, occasionally lose bladder control. duke, who i adopted at age 10 or 11, knowing that he had very very mild epilepsy, but when he had a seizure, he would lose bowel and bladder control. i konw 2 other long lived dogs who have lived more 10 years with epilepsy. i have lots of experience and hope to share. join us at www.canine-epilepsy.com, www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com and the yahoo group k9epilepsy. there is a paper published by dr william thomas of the university of kentucky vet school that is invaluable for your vet to read, i have copies of the valium protocol that dr mark podell, formerly of the osu vet school wrote, and i can send you these references for you vet to read.
it's truly awful to watch your well loved dog having one, but we can help you find ways to help your dog. PM me, there's more i can share..there is hope. kindest regards, joyce

[dreamparkingspace]

I don't have epilepsy, though my sister does (she has taken Keppra and Lamictal in the past) and I have personally been prescribed almost every anti-convulsant there is in the past as well I must admit in order to treat schizoaffective disorder (to treat the bipolar part -- schizoaffective = schizophrenia + bipolar), and I do know quite a bit about psychiatric drugs because I've taken so many in my life and mental illness is very common in my family, except I have never been prescribed phenobarbital. I know that is one of the older anti-convulsants, which isn't used as often anymore (at least in humans). If I were you I'd ask your vet as many questions as you can about which anti-convulsant is the safest for your dog, which is most effective, which has the least side effect profile, what he/she would use if they were in your position, etc. My Grandma was on phenobarbital for several years after she had a brain anyeurism, and if I remember correctly it helped with headaches but made her sleep a lot, again though, don't know if this applies to dogs.

Hope this is helpful. Feel free to email me.

[critters]

http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=a098013e80c7520b27154e73c89cc383

[Denyce]

Hi I am so sorry you are having to watch your baby go through this.

Our husky Sequoia started having seizures shortly after we rescued her 5 years ago. We first thought it might have been the whip worms she also had but the seizures continued. They were not as bad as your dogs. She would have one about every 2-3 months and they would last anywhere from 2 minutes to almost 45. That last was one of the last seizures she had. We didn't put her on any meds except we kept Phenobarb and valium to help keep them from continuing. She would alert us each time she started to seize and we could get a Phenobarb pill in her before her jaws would clench. This went on for a couple of years.

Then the horrible pet food recalls happened. We had been feeding her Nutros Natural Max since we had rescued her. While that formula wasn't on the list I just hated seeing new foods being added daily it seemed and I thought..."That is it. I have had it with grains and glutens!"

We switched her to Innova Red Meat small bites formula in April of 2007. She hasn't had a seizure since. The one in March of 2007 had lasted 45 minutes of her whole body clenched and foaming/drooling. I thought we were going to lose her. It was terrifying but we live so far from the vets and the stress of moving her during a seizure meant we just had to try and be calm during it and pray a lot.

I know Innova is expensive and I don't have any "proof" that the grains and glutens caused her seizures. But I will not switch her off that food unless I can no longer get it because they quit making it. It has been 16 months she has had a seizure. She is 7 and a half years old now and looks incredible. I will try and post a recent pic soon.

I don't know what you are feeding but I would talk to your vet about switching. Our vet also feeds Innova and is convinced that the food change is what made a difference with her.

Denyce

[dreamparkingspace]

That's cool that a change to healthier dog food may have in some way reduced seizures in your dog. That 45 minute seizure must have been hard to watch. I'm glad your dog seems to be doing much better Denyce.

Also, I noticed a lot of you mentioned "Valium" as a way of treating seizures. I've never heard of such a treatment. In fact I've heard the opposite...that coming off tranquilizers increases the seizure risk. So how does Valium fit in to reducing seizure risk?...It seems like it's just a tranquilizer that would get a dog drunk...

[Denyce]

it is a liquied valium that is given in the anus during a seizure in order to try and relax the dog and stop the seizue I beleive. If anyone else knows better please correct me. We never used it although the last one we wished we had it then. We didn't get it until the next day in preparation for the next one. Which never happened. :D

Of course you all realize I am knocking on wood like mad. My desk, my head...whatever else seems wooden like.

[shepgirl]

You're right about the liquid valium. The reason for that is that in animals you insert rectally and it has almost immediate benefits. For humans who are convulsing they will inject the valium intravenously to abort the seizure immediately. For animals, not everyone would be able find the vein and inject and it would take too long to get to a clinic , thus the liquid to insert rectally.

[Falconara]

Our Mutt Jay started having seizures around June of last summer (1yr old).

The first several seizures where Grand Mal Seizures and usually ended with a fair amount of disorientation and aggression...the very first one he ended up biting Dad afterward.

We took him to the vet and our vets started him on Potassium Bromide -- which is a liquid substance...they frontloaded him on it (he was mouth shy from that for months...so we ended up squirting the medication on bread and putting a wee bit of parmesian on top for him to munch down), and now we give it to him every night.

We started him on about 2.5 mL, then 3.5mL, and now we're at 4.5mL and steady....he kept having seizures every once and a while for the first few months -- which is why we updated the dosage...but at the time they were petit mal...which was definetley an improvment...we also didnt have the aggressiveness after those either.

So far we havent had a seizure in a few months -- the last one started with an eye twitch (which is how it always starts) and I put my hands on his head and rubbed and soothed and that seemed to break it. The medication made him gain alot of weight...and we dont feed him much...mostly caloric filler like green beans so he doesnt scavenge...and we run together....but he's mostly in shape now despite the weight.

Another thing we noticed was the first time we had a seizure came right around the time I went to get Ruby...and since Ruby was a rabid catfood eater we moved the catfood -- for most animals Taurine is a non-essential Amino Acid...meaning they can produce it on their own...for cats however it is not....so there is a great deal of it in their food.

There was a study done in 2003 by Torres et all looking at Newfies and their Taurine levels. What they found was that some large breed dogs do in fact have a Taurine Deficiency, which can lead to Cardio Mylepothy and Seizing. As a result we have been supplementing Taurine (along with the KBr) just in case....methionine can also be used....or, if you dont want to purchase the goey stuff, Beef heart is a great source....there hasnt been alot of research on it...but enough to make me worry about Jay which is why he is on it.

Hope that helps

~Cate

[Medusa]

My RB Charmin had epilepsy; it began after the birth of her only litter of pups. (She had 2.) She was a peke-a-poo and she was put on phenolbarbitol at one year of age. She lived to 18 1/2 and the phenolbarbitol gave her no problems whatsoever and no side effects. It started working for her almost immediately but she did have one grand mal. I stroked her and softly called her name and that brought her out of it. As I said, she lived to a ripe old age and finally died of a heart attack. I'm sorry that you're experiencing this; it's kinda scary when it first happens but I myself had seizures as a child, so I could relate perfectly to what Charmin was going through. Take heart; I hope the meds start working right away and that you have Cody w/you for a long time. Don't be scared. Keep the faythe. (Glad I ventured over into the dog section for a change. :))

[pomtzu]

Don't rule out diabetes as a cause for the seizures. I had 2 Lhasa Apsos that were diabetic and one of them was very difficult to regulate even on insulin. She would have a seizure if her blood sugar dropped very low.

[sassyvega]

Our beagle/shepherd/mutt Vega started having seizures about 5 yrs ago. Always had grand mal 2-3 months apart. Had a cluster about a yr ago that lasted a whole weekend:( Put him on pheno after that. He's had 1 grand mal and other mild seizure activity since then. He has gained about 6 lbs. He recently(last few days) has started acting kinda manic though and I'm wondering if this is seizure activity.(see my post in behavior section).

[GiantSchnauzer]

My first Giant started having seizures at 1.5 yrs of age. It was heartbreaking to have a young dog diagnosed with epilepsy. She was on Phenobarb and Potassium Bromide. I don't remember the dosage as it was 8 yrs ago.
As others have said the side effects of the meds can be worse than the seizures. The KBr did a number on her already dysplastic hips.
Every dog is different. Your dog may not have any more seizures.
I wish you the best with Cody.