Why can't we all just get along?

[mamaducky]

Hi kids,

You all seem like such a wise bunch that I'm hoping you can give me some suggestions with what is turning into kind of a BIG problem!

We have three cats: Zorro and Einstein (males ages 7 & 6) have lived happily together since we brought them home from the Humane Society six years ago.

This past November, we took in Meg (female age 8), who had belonged to an elderly friend who wasn't really in the mood to have a cat anymore. We did all the "slow and steady" introductions that I'd read about in my pre-adoption homework, and things went all right for the first few months. Einstein and Megan get along fine, but Zorro (my sweet but somewhat neurotic alpha cat) and Meg have real problems.

Amazingly, I think the aggression between the two was originally instigated by Meg -- who will still jump hissing and spitting into Zorro's face unprovoked on occasion, even though he's easily twice her size and can (and has) given her as good as he's gotten. Though they usually manage to ignore one another, we usually have a minor scuffle (hissing and spitting) every day, and a major event (actual physical contact and even occasional biting) maybe once or twice a week.

Now, Meg (or at least I'm pretty sure it's Meg -- you know how it is with multiple cats) is having littering issues -- urinating and defecating in places such as the closet or the bathtub. I assumed this was because maybe Zorro was giving her trouble when she went down to the basement to use the litter box, so I put a litter box up on the second floor so that she could use it without being worried. It worked for a couple of weeks, but now she's back to finding alternative places to go.

I love all three of my wonderful cats, but my husband is quickly losing patience with Meg and her issues and is making noises about finding her a new home. Any ideas about how we can reduce the hostilities between my big guy and my little girl, and how I can get Miss Meg back to the litter box?

Thanks in advance!
Diana

[krazyaboutkatz]

Hi and welcome to PT.:) I would first take Meg to the vet to make sure that she doesn't have a UTI or something else wrong with her that might be causing her to pee inappropriately.

If everything checks out fine then I'd make sure that you have plenty of litterboxes. The rule of thumb is to have at least 1 for each cat plus an extra one so that would make 4 in your case. If you live in a house that has 3 floors then you also need litterboxes on every floor. You must also make sure to clean them out at least once every day or more often if needed.

If you have covered litterboxes, then I would take the hoods off because some cats don't like to use covered litterboxes. I had this problem with one of my cats even though he had used the covered litterboxes for quite a while. Meg may also not like the litter. Many cats don't like scented litters because it's too strong for their sensitive noses.

When I was having some peeing issues my vet recommended that I buy Cat Attract Litter By Dr. Elsey. You can buy it online or at Petsmart. Here's a link about it: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751734&cp=2767033.2845025. When I bought it I just put some of it on top of my cats old litter and they used it right away. I'm now using Dr. Elsey's Precious Cat Ultra Scoopable Litter which is an unscented litter and my cats really seem to like it.

I would also try using some Feliway Plugins and I'd also buy some Feliway spray to spray in the areas where Meg has already peed. You also need to buy some kind of enzyme cleaner so that your cats won't smell the pee areas and continue to pee there. I use Simple Solution which I buy at a pet store and it seems to do the trick.

If nothing seems to work then you may want to consider putting Meg on prozac or another type of tranquilizer to help keep her calm. I like using holistic things so I'm currently using Calm Spirit Teapills on a few of my cats. My holisitic vet recommeded this and it takes at least 2 weeks to see any affect. You can buy these pills online but I'd talk to a vet first. I hope that something will work. Good luck.:)

[Medusa]

If, after having Meg checked out to be sure she's free of physical problems that could be causing the inappropriate behavior, she still continues in this way, talk to your vet about a medication called Clomicalm. It's usually prescribed for dogs but can be safely administered to cats. I've had 4 of mine on it for several years now w/no side effects whatsoever. It's a mild antidepressant that has taken care of aggressive behavior and inappropriate urination and defecation. It usually comes in 20 mg. pills which are cut into quarters, so that each cat gets 5 mg. at night before bed. It's said to take a while to work but, fortunately, it started working immediately for me. It saved my household and my sanity. See what your vet has to say about it. :)

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Poor Meg - maybe she knows that she wasn't wanted in her old home any more and is taking it out on Zorro as she senses he is the easier target.

I hope she checks out okay with the vet and that they all get along soon

[mamaducky]

You've all made such great suggestions, and have made me feel a lot less panicky about the whole situation.

Meg, despite her present issues, is SUCH a sweet girl, and I'm just determined to make it work for her. I'm taking her to the vet on Monday (would go sooner, but my 2-legged baby is graduating high school TOMORROW!), and will see what he has to say.

Meanwhile, I'm off to try the Cat Attract litter and get hold of some enzyme spray to get rid of the smelly spots!

Thanks again!
Diana

[cristy]

You said that your husband was starting to get aggrevated with Meg. Make sure that he isn't treating her any different. When I moved in with my husband my cat started peeing an pooping everywhere....I was SHOCKED because Jasper had NEVER had a single issue before. It wasn't until he disappeared for three days (he crawled into a hole in the wall under the sink!!!) and had me frantically casing the neighborhood that steve told me how evil he was being to my poor baby. He didn't hurt him or anything, but I always left a heating pad on in his cat bed and when I went to work, steve would turn it off...just to be mean! I was soooo angry!! Once steve realized that if he wanted me around he was going to have to be nice to Jasper too they became the best of buds. Now, he spoils Jazzy more than I do and Jaz hasn't had an issue since. I'm not suggesting that your husband is abusing Meg, just that maybe she senses his displeasure and is acting out. Sounds like she has had quite a bit of upheavel lately!

[Pawsitive Thinking]

You said that your husband was starting to get aggrevated with Meg. Make sure that he isn't treating her any different.

That is a very valid point Cristy. It certainly won't be making Meg feel any more secure

[mamaducky]

Yes, those are all certainly good points.

The funny part, however, is that Megan adores both my husband and my 18-year-old daughter -- I'm only sought out when it's feeding time! (Go figure...) In the 5+ months we've had her, her relationship with her "Dad" has been very good.

Though Stephen is distinctly unhappy about the littering accident situation (which has cleared up entirely with the placement of boxes on each floor -- though he doesn't like that either), he's very fond of Meg. He blames Zorro for being mean to her -- but Zorro is such a dyed-in-the-wool mama's boy that it doesn't bother him much if someone else is ticked off at him.

Come to think of it, since Meg is not nuts about Zorro, that might be why she's not so crazy about me either! Lordy, this whole cat psychology thing is more than I can handle on a Friday morning!:eek: For now, I'm just stepping forward in faith that I'll be able to find answers to make the situation work out.

Thanks again, all of you, for your help and advice!

[mamaducky]

Hi all,

Well, I just brought Miss Meg back from the vet, and it turned out to be a pretty well-timed visit. Turns out she had a bite that had abscessed over the past couple days, and we were able to get that cleaned out and taken care of. (And yes, I feel absolutely awful that I hadn't noticed it -- but since she rarely lets me pet her at the best of times, I don't get the chance to get up close and "purr-sonal" like I do with the other two.)

Anyway, the vet is going to see her in 2 weeks after she's had her course of antibiotics, and will do blood work to make sure she's not hyperthyroid -- which he says can sometimes cause aggressive behavior. (That would REALLY suck...!)

He sent me home with a can of Feliway aerosol spray, as they were out of diffusers at their office -- and though he told me to spray "prominent objects" in rooms where she hangs out, I'll admit to still being a little confused. I'd LOVE it if you all could give me some pointers on how best to use the Feliway spray.

I kind of feel as though I'm living in a 4-legged soap opera; this is going to get better, right? :confused:

[Jessika]

No suggestions other than what has already been posted... just wanted to pop in and say I hope your kitty gets better SOON and also to say... howdy, neighbor! :) What part of St. Louis are you from?

[mamaducky]

Howdy to you as well!

I'm out here in beautiful Ballwin -- west St. Louis County!

[Jessika]

Howdy to you as well!

I'm out here in beautiful Ballwin -- west St. Louis County!

Oh awesome! I go to school in Westport, currently live in Lake St. Louis (moved back from Branson in December) but grew up in St. Peters! :) Nice to see someone who knows what I mean when I say those places instead of just giving up and saying St. Louis... hehe.

I frequent the Wentzville dog park, Quail Ridge, a lot :)

[krazyaboutkatz]

Hi all,

Well, I just brought Miss Meg back from the vet, and it turned out to be a pretty well-timed visit. Turns out she had a bite that had abscessed over the past couple days, and we were able to get that cleaned out and taken care of. (And yes, I feel absolutely awful that I hadn't noticed it -- but since she rarely lets me pet her at the best of times, I don't get the chance to get up close and "purr-sonal" like I do with the other two.)

Anyway, the vet is going to see her in 2 weeks after she's had her course of antibiotics, and will do blood work to make sure she's not hyperthyroid -- which he says can sometimes cause aggressive behavior. (That would REALLY suck...!)

He sent me home with a can of Feliway aerosol spray, as they were out of diffusers at their office -- and though he told me to spray "prominent objects" in rooms where she hangs out, I'll admit to still being a little confused. I'd LOVE it if you all could give me some pointers on how best to use the Feliway spray.

I kind of feel as though I'm living in a 4-legged soap opera; this is going to get better, right? :confused:

Hi, I'm sorry to hear that Meg has an abcess:( but I'm so glad that you brought her to vet where it was caught. So did the vet take a urine sample? If so I guess it was normal and that she didn't have a UTI which is good. Hopefully her thyroid test will be normal as well. I hope that Meg will feel better soon and heal up quickly.

You can buy the Feliway spray and plugins as most pet stores and even online. Use the Feliway spray in the areas where Meg has peed and in areas where she hangs out the most. Hopefully it'll make her feel less stressed out and calmer. Don't spray it near or in or on any of the litterboxes because then your cats won't want to use them.

When I used the spray I would spray my hallway and other areas where the plugins didn't reach in the morning and again at night before I went to bed. My peeing problem mainly occurred at night or in the early morning hours. How's the cat attract litter working? Hopefully you'll soon have a very peaceful house. Good luck and please keep us updated.:)

[mamaducky]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear that Meg has an abcess:( but I'm so glad that you brought her to vet where it was caught. So did the vet take a urine sample? If so I guess it was normal and that she didn't have a UTI which is good. Hopefully her thyroid test will be normal as well. I hope that Meg will feel better soon and heal up quickly.


The inappropriate peeing and pooping stopped as soon as I put a litter box on the main floor of the house (there had previously been boxes in the basement & second floor, but not the first floor). All three of the cats ADORE the Cat Attract litter -- when I put it into a new box on the second floor, Zorro just got in and rolled around in it! (I'm happy to report that he stopped that once they started using it as an actual litter box -- that would have been weird, even for him!)

Now my big concern is finding a way to end the aggression between Meg and Zorro. The vet did mention using meds for Meg, but only as a last resort. For now, I'm just doing my best to keep them separated -- which should get easier once I'm not at school all day. I've also ordered a Feliway diffuser online, along with the book "Cat Vs Cat".

Think good thoughts for us, won't you?

[cristy]

I'm so glad that the peeing and pooping has stopped!! If you look on here, there are many many people with multiple cats. In our home, we have had rescues in and out for the last 6 or 7 years while Jasper has been here. Sometimes they get along and sometimes they don't, but eventually they have ALL dealt with each other when they realized that "Hissy" fits weren't going to get rid of each other!! Cats are like people, all have different personalities and some just don't ever get along. That said, even if Meg and Zorro never become friends they will eventually just agree to disagree and probably stay away from each other. You might always have some spitting and hissing when paths cross, but as long as the hardcore physical stuff stops...and it will...things will be ok.

[Catty1]

Here's an idea so you don't have to worry about diffusers and all that stuff....

I have one cat who uses Feliway - my vet ok'd it instead of a medication. He was wild his first 2 - 3 years, and even good stress affected his health via a urine infection.

Spraying it in his favourite areas...there were a lot of them. I tried spraying a bit of rag which I would lay beside him - but he would get up and move, of course, and not get the 4 hours exposure.

So - I got a stretchy collar that comes off instantly if he and his brother are playing hard(don't get the breakaway), and I shake the Feliway bottle and squirt a tiny bit into his collar (don't put on fur or skin).

My vet LOVED the Feliway Collar idea and has recommended it to other clients.

Maybe she would let Hubby put a collar on her? :)

[mamaducky]

What a spiffy idea!

Right now, the Calico Queen is wearing a collar to keep her from licking where the vet cleaned up her abscessed bite, and doesn't seem to mind it much. (BTW, she's obviously feeling a LOT better to have that taken care of, and is significantly less grumpy than she was for the past couple of days, poor baby.) But the fact that this soft collar (more like a poncho -- quite the fashion statement) isn't bugging her says to me that she'd likely do well with a stretchy collar.

Here's something I find interesting: Even though I am not even on Meg's "cuddle time" list -- though she spent a couple of hours on Daddy's lap this evening -- Meg is willing to let me do the "caretaker" stuff, such as cleaning the place where the vet opened up the abscess with peroxide, and holding her still to give her a liquid antibiotic & her pain meds. It's nice to know that she obviously trusts me to take care of her -- it shows me that she knows I love her!

Thanks again to all of you for the good ideas and encouragement. I am NOT giving up on this situation, and I know we'll get through it!

[mamaducky]

Hi friends,

Here's my update on the Meg & Zorro soap opera: ;)

The combination of Feliway and having her "owie" better has made a HUGE difference with Meg. She's significantly happier and more relaxed, and has even started cuddling with me! :love: :love: And as I'd said earlier, the inappropriate peeing/pooping went away as soon as I put a litter box on the first floor of our house. So, in one way, we're a bunch better.

However... Zorro is still not being very nice to Meg. He very rarely (less than once a week) actually initiates a physical altercation with her, and frequently leaves her alone entirely during the day, but he also often "holds her hostage" under the kitchen table. (You all probably know what I'm talking about -- he just lies there nonchalantly on the floor about two feet away from her, acting innocent, while everybody knows he's just waiting for her to come out from under that table...!)

Now, I recently finished the book "Cat vs. Cat", by Pam Johnson-Bennett, and her advice in this situation is to start the introduction process all over again. She also says not to let the "aggressor" have the "prime territory" that he's defending to begin with -- otherwise, his aggressive behavior will be reinforced. Having never had a cat conflict before, it sounds like good advice to me -- especially since I haven't seen Meg on the second floor of our home in quite a while, even though she used to enjoy coming to snuggle with my daughter. I have little doubt that Mr. Zorro has something to do with that...

What this means in my house is that I'm going to have to isolate Zorro from the other cats. He's reeeeallly not going to like it, and I'm going to have immense guilt -- especially since he, of all of them, is "my" cat. Of course, I'm absolutely willing to deal with that if it's going to ultimately make the situation better among them all.

One of my questions at this point is, how will I know when it's OK to let him back out again? When we were introducing Meg, it wasn't particularly hard to keep her in her "safe room" -- wherever it happened to be -- because she didn't really feel the need to be out and about yet in a new environment. With Zorro it'll be another story altogether; he'll be yowling up a storm and pretty hacked off at being stuck in one place, regardless of how much time I spend with him or how pleasant I make it for him.

So, what do you all think? Does it sound like the right solution? Do you have other ideas or things that have worked for you? I'd love some input!

Hugs,
Diana