pitbulls

[doxielover959]

I love pitbulls. They are so beautiful and friendly! But one thing always goes through my mind when I think about them: are they born with their instinct to fight or are they trained to do that? Thanks to all that respond :)

[Jessika]

I believe that there is some instinct, yes, but the majority of it like 99% is taught and how they were raised.

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Yes, Pit Bulls do have some instinct, but as Jessika said, it depends on how they are raised.

[binka_nugget]

I love pitbulls. They are so beautiful and friendly! But one thing always goes through my mind when I think about them: are they born with their instinct to fight or are they trained to do that? Thanks to all that respond :)

Some Pitties come from generations of fighting dogs. They will likely have some instinct to fight, or at least have the tendency to be dog aggressive. Dog aggression does run in the breed but like Jessika said, how they are raised plays a huge role (a greater role in my opinion). Dog aggression and human aggression should never be confused though. :)

[Suki Wingy]

Just wanted to add, what runs through my mind 95% of the time I see a pittie is "He looks like he wants a hug!" :D :p

[Danegirl2208]

American pit bull terriers were bred for generations, and generations to have that willingness and ability to fight...it is NOT trained into a dog.

[Jessika]

American pit bull terriers were bred for generations, and generations to have that willingness and ability to fight...it is NOT trained into a dog.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree... I have met too many pitties from "fighting" lines that turn out to be absolute sweethearts... in the hands of the right and responsible owners.

I'm not shunning the fact altogether; try to get my Aussies to stop herding the cats and I'll beg to differ, but my point being is since I don't reinforce their herding instincts, it doesn't become problematic. RESPONSIBLE pit owners know their histories and know their instincts to know the proper environment to bring them up in as well as how to properly train and handle them, therefore I honestly and truly believe it is at least 90% in how they are trained and raised, and the environment they are raised in.

[Danegirl2208]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree... I have met too many pitties from "fighting" lines that turn out to be absolute sweethearts... in the hands of the right and responsible owners.

I'm not shunning the fact altogether; try to get my Aussies to stop herding the cats and I'll beg to differ, but my point being is since I don't reinforce their herding instincts, it doesn't become problematic. RESPONSIBLE pit owners know their histories and know their instincts to know the proper environment to bring them up in as well as how to properly train and handle them, therefore I honestly and truly believe it is at least 90% in how they are trained and raised, and the environment they are raised in.

I didn't say pit bulls from fighting lines or even a pit bull that has been fought can't be a sweethearts. I have met many game bred pit bulls..and yes they were all sweethearts.

I am not putting down the breed in any way..this breed is my passion (right along with Danes). But we can not sugercoat the facts. I am in no way saying that every pit bull is always looking for a fight...and they were not bred to do so. They were bred to never back down from whatever task they are asked of..and in the case of fighting that trait is what made them the "perfect" in the ring.

Not every pit bull has that trait, nor is every pit bull dog aggressive. But it would be a mistake not to keep the breeds history in the back of your mind.

[Animalhouse26]

I say both. I know of a LOT of pitties that are good with other dogs there whole life, as where some can not be around other dogs at all.. Whether there genes are great or not. When someone gets one, have the impression that at about age 3.. Things sometimes change! No matter HOW Much you socialize them... or how you raise them. They were bred to be great Family pets however... if you have a Human aggressive one.. that is the owners fault more or less. This is IMO Of course. Pittie Stuff is always soo 2 sided though. :-)

[CDarkastle7]

Hi,
I have a dog that looks like a St. Bernard but acts like a pitbull. He is actually a mix. He turns a year old at the end of this month, but he is so hyper, any suggestions?:confused:

[caseysmom]

Darkcastle, he is adorable!

[CDarkastle7]

;) Thanks, it's weird because he learns so fast he is just really stubborn. When he was little he whined a lot and now that he is older he whines even more. It's kinda funny it's like he is trying to communicate with me. lol When I say something to him if he doesn't like it he whines.... but all in all he is one of the smartest dogs I have ever owned. What kind do you have? :)

[kittycats_delight]

Your cutie definately looks like he could have some pittie in him. My brother's pittie is a big ol baby and extremely intelligent. Stubborn as a mule and loves to be loved. He sulks just like a kid when he doesn't get his way or has to do something he doesn't want to. Sounds a bit like your guy huh?

BTW...he is gorgeous! What is his name?

Michelle

[buttercup132]

Do you know for sure that he has Saint B in him?
He just looks like a pit/lab.

[CDarkastle7]

His name is Bear, yes we know for sure because the daddy was a pure breed St. Bernard and his mommy a full breed Pitbull. He only got the looks of the st. Bernard. Droopy face and color and lots and lots of drool just like beetoven. lol but sometime when I look at him he looks like a pitbull too. But he def. acts more pitbullish! He is very rough in his play, and yes he loves to be loved! We have been trying to teach him walking easily on the leash but he is so strong but he's learning. When it comes to commands he does very well unless his stubborn side kicks in. lol :D

[Jadapit]

Bear is adorable. I think his face looks like a pit bulls.:love:

I own a pit bull and they are very, very hyper. Never ending energy. I walk Ebony every day, we walk, run. I live right by the high school so on the weekend I take all the dogs to the ball field (its fenced in) I play frisbee with Ebony, she loves that. She would do that all day long if I let her. Ebony and one of my other dogs Diamond are best of friends. They rough house a lot, that helps wear her out somewhat.

Ebony, turned 3 in March she has settled down somewhat but she still has plenty of energy.;) Do you have anywhere you can take Bear to let him run off leash? We are able to do that a lot because there is tons of wide open space where we live. I bet there are days you have a hard time keeping up with Bear. I know I had those days with Ebony. LOL.

[CDarkastle7]

Your pets sound Great! Bear isn't able to get off his leash we live on a pretty busy road, not only that but the road is close to the yard so I am too afraid to because the people drive around this corner we have really fast and I wouldn't want anything to happen to him. But, we take him to the park and he loves that. I want to try a frisbee with him, I think he would have fun with that. lol I see all the dogs do that now but I am not sure how he will respond to it. We have a lot of room for him to run around inside, but yeah it's not the same. I try to take him for a lot of walks to keep him healthy and to tire him out so he isnt a boring couch potato lol. Yes, I have a really hard time keeping up with him he is just so strong! He loves attention though, as most dogs do. He will get his ball and sit next to me and just whine at me, so I know he wants to go to the park and play. It is funny! :D We try to do as much as we can with him so he doesn't become a lazy dog! That and the vet said he will have problems with his hips and back legs if we don't keep him active when he get older that is. That's great that Diamond is there so they can play together, I dont think my boyfriend would like it if I brought home another dog though lol. I actually wanted to get one of Bear's brothers so they could stick together and be buddies but I knew they would be big and it's just too much for us!.
Take care, talk to you soon.

Colleen

[Spicy_Bulldog]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on this forum. Hope to have many more.

To help in answering your question. Yes Pit Bulls have an instinct to fight. They have been bred for pit fighting for many, many generations. So via selective breeding they might have dog aggression or a fight drive. They are not trained to fight. They will either fight or not. Those that fight will either continue or they will quit. Those that will continue fighting no matter how long its been, how much injury they have, how tired they are ect were the dogs that were bred. The dogs that would quit would not be breed.

Things like good wrestling ability or hard bite have also shown to be genetic. These things can really not be taught so much either, but show to run in certain lines.

The age at which the dog becomes aggressive/interested in fighting might vary from line to line as well. Some lines might be early starters, those dogs would be very young say 6-9 months (sometimes you see younger pups) and want to fight. Others might be later starters and not show a desire to fight/aggression until they are 3 or 4yrs old. Typically most will say that they will turn on or become aggressive around 1-2yrs of age, when they are mature or maturing. They might be less tolerant of dogs. The signs are staring the other dogs down, low rumbling growl, whining, screaming, these are just some which show that the dog wants to fight. In certain cases the dog will head straight for a fight, because the owner has other dogs and they get along and play so the dog has the opportunity to start a fight with one.


I guess we will have to agree to disagree... I have met too many pitties from "fighting" lines that turn out to be absolute sweethearts... in the hands of the right and responsible owners.

I'm not shunning the fact altogether; try to get my Aussies to stop herding the cats and I'll beg to differ, but my point being is since I don't reinforce their herding instincts, it doesn't become problematic. RESPONSIBLE pit owners know their histories and know their instincts to know the proper environment to bring them up in as well as how to properly train and handle them, therefore I honestly and truly believe it is at least 90% in how they are trained and raised, and the environment they are raised in.

What bloodlines were the dogs from? What were the ages of these?

Of course in the right hands they make great dogs. I wouldn't expect them to be less then sweethearts. They need responsible owners, those who realize that dog aggression or fighting ability is something their dog might develop. They must know that they shouldn’t trust the dog won’t ever fight, that the dog park is not a smart place for a pit, that they shouldn’t be left unsupervised with other dogs. It seems some people want to believe its all in how you raise them and that certain breeds are not really prone to dog or human aggression, just taught to be bad. This can actually be counter productive, newbies getting such a breed can lead to disaster, heartache, headache and even tragedy. Confusion, panic, worry why did he attack and try to kill that other dog, we never trained him to fight. For another breed why was he aggressive with that person, we didn’t train them to guard. It comes with the breed. Without accepting these traits one can’t be prepared to content with them.

Any good breeder knows that temperament can be genetic, that even personality traits can be passed on. If this was all just a scam and it came from 90-99% of training and raising there wouldn’t be a need for selective breeding.

In the case of pit fighting if it was simply due to mostly training then any breed could be trained to success. The fact is that its bred into them, not trained.

Since Pit pups can/have killed each other or seriously injured one another it is innate to them. You can’t train this type of thing in an 6-8wk old pup even if you wanted to.

Since litters might have to be separated due to serious fighting it is innate.

If it was all due to training (with only as little as 1-10% natural) then why not simply train good fighting dogs. Why was Honeybunch waited upon to turn on after she wouldn’t fight? Why not just train her to fight? Why wait on any dog to turn on? Why not just train the dogs to be aggressive and fight? Why would anyone (who’s a dog fighter of course) want to wait up to 3yrs for a dog to become dog aggressive when they could train this into the dog?

They can not have so much credit, not even 90% let alone 99. 1% would not be a big foundation to work on anyway. You’d have no luck there. They raise the dog up, when it turns on, they let it fight pitting it with another. Well that’s not really training a dog. It doesn’t require much of the owner, they just sit back and wait, patience is maybe it. They can’t take credit except conditioning if it were a match dog. Good conditioning can not make a dog game but it could help in a win. It can’t make the dog a better fighter, but it could help the dog sustain longer instead of needing to be picked up which would result in a loss. In that case they can take credit for good conditioning of their fighting dog, but not their dogs drive or gameness. The dog either has it or it does not. They would not waste the time on a dog that didn’t have it at all. If the dog had to be trained that would be a red flag. The dog is likely going to quit because it does not even really want to fight out of its own desire in the first place. Then that’d be a waste of time/money.

There is also that fact that dogs of cur blood decent would be just as good of fighters as those of fighting lines if all they’d need was training. Yet we know that is not the case.

[Danegirl2208]

wlecome to pet talk spicy...EXCELLENT post.

[lute]

Pit Bulls, when properly socialized don't have a mean bone in their body. Just like ANY other breed. They get a bad reputation. The news only tells the bad side. Never the good side of this breed. Never say how devoted they are to their families, How they are smart as a whip and easily trainable.

I myself have owned a Pittie. One of the best dogs I've ever had! Here are some pics of Brick. Look at these pics and tell me that Pitties are uncontrollably aggressive.


Brick being a goof.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/new%20camera%20pics/dogs/Picture012-3.jpg
Brick and me. He was such a lover. Not a mean thing about him.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/Picture019.jpg
Brick snuggling with the first pup I bottle fed. He loved this pup like it was his. Even tried to nurse it.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/rescues/Picture027-1.jpg
Me and Brick. He was my best friend. Unfortinatly he was too energetic and
I didn't have the fenced yard that he needed to burn that energy.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/rescues/Picture.jpg

[Blackrose]

Since we're posting Pittie photos.... :D My friend has a Pittie whom I consider my "god dog". We actually may be taking Sasha, the Pittie, in when my friend goes to college. Just depends on the home situation. I LOVE this dog - she is such a sweet heart. Very smart and athletic. She's smaller than Chloe but can clear a 4' gate from a stand still with room to spare! Such a rock solid, strong, adorable, wonderful, stable dog. She doesn't get along well with strange dogs (aka, random dog we meet on the street), but she loves to play with other dogs after a proper introduction at a house.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/Shara459/Foster%20dogs/Sasha001.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/Shara459/Foster%20dogs/Sasha003.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/Shara459/Foster%20dogs/Sasha002.jpg

[Spicy_Bulldog]

Pit Bulls, when properly socialized don't have a mean bone in their body. Just like ANY other breed. They get a bad reputation. The news only tells the bad side. Never the good side of this breed. Never say how devoted they are to their families, How they are smart as a whip and easily trainable.

I myself have owned a Pittie. One of the best dogs I've ever had! Here are some pics of Brick. Look at these pics and tell me that Pitties are uncontrollably aggressive.


Brick being a goof.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/new%20camera%20pics/dogs/Picture012-3.jpg
Brick and me. He was such a lover. Not a mean thing about him.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/Picture019.jpg
Brick snuggling with the first pup I bottle fed. He loved this pup like it was his. Even tried to nurse it.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/rescues/Picture027-1.jpg
Me and Brick. He was my best friend. Unfortinatly he was too energetic and
I didn't have the fenced yard that he needed to burn that energy.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/rescues/Picture.jpg

Yes Pit Bulls are like other breeds, just like any other breed they can have inherit temperament problems. Aggression, shyness, skittish, ect. Good breeders breed for proper temperament. Building on a solid foundation with training and socialization is your best bet for a balanced, confident, sociable dog.

Brick is a beautiful dog. I absolutely love brindles like him! What a stunner. Your jeans look like mine at times.


Since we're posting Pittie photos.... :D My friend has a Pittie whom I consider my "god dog". We actually may be taking Sasha, the Pittie, in when my friend goes to college. Just depends on the home situation. I LOVE this dog - she is such a sweet heart. Very smart and athletic. She's smaller than Chloe but can clear a 4' gate from a stand still with room to spare! Such a rock solid, strong, adorable, wonderful, stable dog. She doesn't get along well with strange dogs (aka, random dog we meet on the street), but she loves to play with other dogs after a proper introduction at a house.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/Shara459/Foster%20dogs/Sasha001.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/Shara459/Foster%20dogs/Sasha003.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/Shara459/Foster%20dogs/Sasha002.jpg

That will be cool if you take her. Yes 4ft is very easy for a Pit to clear. Does she have any Bull Terrier in her lineage? She is pretty. Another brindle!

[Spicy_Bulldog]

I love seeing everyones Pit pics. I've got tons of pics myself. Love APBTs!

Here is some of my pics.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/Santanachasefp.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/Stormchasergethide2.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/Zarastalking.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/May%202008%20II/Ryuplayful.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/May%202008%20II/Ryutug2-1.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/May%202008%20II/Alnbou3.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/Thunderoutside.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/April%2008/ryunthunderdball7.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/April%2008/nd41808b.jpg

This is a pile of bull
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/May%202008%20II/bullpile.jpg

[Blackrose]

That will be cool if you take her. Yes 4ft is very easy for a Pit to clear. Does she have any Bull Terrier in her lineage? She is pretty. Another brindle!
I don't know what her lineage is. My friend got her from someone who took her for one of their friends after they couldn't afford to feed her anymore. Sasha was given to Brittany saying, "She's pure, but no papers and may be pregnant."
No idea of the age, how far along she may be, nothing. Brittany ran into the original original owner and when Britt asked about Sasha's age he said, "Oh, I don't know....a year, maybe?"
We took Sasha to the vet and they said she was at least 2 1/2 and wasn't pregnant, but from the looks of her had had a litter before.
So who knows where she came from or what she has in her. I love her though. :) Her only fault is because she was passed around so many times she has some mild seperation anxiety (thus the reason she was clearing the gates), but it would be easily worked with.

And Spicy, you have some good looking dogs! Very muscled and lean - how a Pittie should be, not the pigs that some people are breeding.

[Reachoutrescue]

In my experience, Pit Bulls are a great breed. I have rescued, fostered, and owned them for over 4 yrs now. Yes, I know that is not much experience, but I have learned a lot and am still learning. I have fallen in love with the "Bully Breed" dogs. Pitties, Staffs, and AmStaffs are all misunderstood breeds...they just want to please thier owners and be loved....don't we all?

Allow me to show my love and add to the pictures!!

Memphis and Casper (member him??)
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/Memphis.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/Casperonhisnewporch.jpg

Baby and Penny
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/Baby1-6-07.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/penny2015weeks.jpg

Jameson and Rex
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/jameson.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/Rascal.jpg

Bentley and his Rainbow Bridge Mom, Lady....You all remember her I'm sure.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/Bentley3.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/Ladyandpups071.jpg

Beautiful (with my oldest son) and our boy Scruff (with some rescue kitties)
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/AssortedPics001-1.jpghttp://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/Reachoutrescue/RESCUE/AsstRescPics007.jpg

I have TONS more, but that would be a whole new thread of its own!!!

[luvofallhorses]

Everyone who knows me I LOVE, LOVE pit bulls. :love: they are by far my favorite breed. I am so passionate about them any "bully" breed really but especially pit bulls. :love: they are the clowniest, goofiest, most loyal, friendly, and they want to please you and they do it so well! they have the best "smiles" and kisses in the whole wide world! :love: I hope to own one someday, rescued of course. I just adore this wonderful breed to KNOW them is to LOVE them! :D I have came across so many pit bulls while volunteering and working at the shelter I just have fallen head over heels for them. there is nothing better than seeing a smile and face like this. this is Montee, he's where I work and the most awesome guy. I would take him home in a second if I could if we didn't have a house full! he's such a great ambassador for the breed.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/houndlicious/furkidspix2023.jpg

:love::love::love::love::love:

[Spicy_Bulldog]

Its so cool seeing people that love the Pits and bullies. I hope more can learn about them and grow to know the real breed.

Reachoutrescue that is a nice group of dogs. I like Baby the best, but they're all cute. Another person with tons of pics! I don't feel so alone..lol I too had one named Bentley, a female, she was a rescue.

Loveofallhorses Montee looks like such a sweet dog. He's cute too.


I don't know what her lineage is. My friend got her from someone who took her for one of their friends after they couldn't afford to feed her anymore. Sasha was given to Brittany saying, "She's pure, but no papers and may be pregnant."
No idea of the age, how far along she may be, nothing. Brittany ran into the original original owner and when Britt asked about Sasha's age he said, "Oh, I don't know....a year, maybe?"
We took Sasha to the vet and they said she was at least 2 1/2 and wasn't pregnant, but from the looks of her had had a litter before.
So who knows where she came from or what she has in her. I love her though. :) Her only fault is because she was passed around so many times she has some mild seperation anxiety (thus the reason she was clearing the gates), but it would be easily worked with.

And Spicy, you have some good looking dogs! Very muscled and lean - how a Pittie should be, not the pigs that some people are breeding.

Sounds like another shady person. I'm glad she is such a great dog, I hope you get the chance to have her. No matter what her lineage is she looks like a happy dog and very pretty too.

Had to throw a couple more pics..

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/Dog%20Album/Maxi/Maxibabygirl.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/Dog%20Album/Maxi/Maxibabygirl2.jpg

[luvofallhorses]

He is such a wonderful dog, Spicy. :) He gives so many kisses and he LOVES milkbones. :) He just loves everything and everyone. He was really good with my co-workers' dog I forgot she was out there and she is a longhaired chihuahua and he just tried to kiss her. :) his "owners" suck though he actually jumped off a bridge we think he was pushed off.
:mad: he is fine though he had to have 5 teeth extracted he fell on his face and he hurt his leg but he's all fine now and all ready to go for adoption once he has another check up at the vets. If I didn't have a house full, he'd so come home with me. :D


your pups are gorgeous. :love: Blackrose I am in love with Sadie! ReachoutRescue, I love all of those babies. God, I just adore the breed. :love: everyone has such beautiful dogs. :)

[Blackrose]

Sounds like another shady person. I'm glad she is such a great dog, I hope you get the chance to have her. No matter what her lineage is she looks like a happy dog and very pretty too.

I know. She came from a bad part of town and my friend has had more than one person say she would be a good fighting dog. :eek: I'm glad that Britt is the one who took Sasha in, even though Britt is the less than ideal owner. She lets Sasha run loose (unspayed near a busy road), does no training with her (but has no problem yelling at her when she does something "wrong"), and only walks her for a total of three blocks a day (when she stayed with us I took her on a two mile walk once a day and the dog could have easily jogged twice the distance).
IMO, it is a bad situation for a sensitive, intelligent, athletic, active dog like Sasha. But at least she's not being fought, isn't in the shelter, and has food, vetcare, toys, and a warm place to sleep.

I hope I can take her in too. My mom, however, will be less than thrilled. She doesn't like Pit Bulls and she says that Sasha gives her the creeps and she feels like she's going to be eaten. :rolleyes:
My younger brother, however, ADORES Sasha. He was really attached to the Leader Dog puppy we raised, Sadie, and he's really missed having "his" dog. When we watched Sasha he really clicked with her. I think he likes her as much as I do. Nobody else in the family minded her either, even my dad (which just about blew my socks off).

[lute]

Tracy, I love seeing all the Pitties you've saved! They are all very special dogs!

[Spicy_Bulldog]

He is such a wonderful dog, Spicy. :) He gives so many kisses and he LOVES milkbones. :) He just loves everything and everyone. He was really good with my co-workers' dog I forgot she was out there and she is a longhaired chihuahua and he just tried to kiss her. :) his "owners" suck though he actually jumped off a bridge we think he was pushed off.
:mad: he is fine though he had to have 5 teeth extracted he fell on his face and he hurt his leg but he's all fine now and all ready to go for adoption once he has another check up at the vets. If I didn't have a house full, he'd so come home with me. :D


your pups are gorgeous. :love: Blackrose I am in love with Sadie! ReachoutRescue, I love all of those babies. God, I just adore the breed. :love: everyone has such beautiful dogs. :)

OMG people like that just make me angry. "Falling" off a bridge! :mad: I'm glad to hear he is doing so well. Hopefully he'll get a real home with people that deserve him.


I know. She came from a bad part of town and my friend has had more than one person say she would be a good fighting dog. :eek: I'm glad that Britt is the one who took Sasha in, even though Britt is the less than ideal owner. She lets Sasha run loose (unspayed near a busy road), does no training with her (but has no problem yelling at her when she does something "wrong"), and only walks her for a total of three blocks a day (when she stayed with us I took her on a two mile walk once a day and the dog could have easily jogged twice the distance).
IMO, it is a bad situation for a sensitive, intelligent, athletic, active dog like Sasha. But at least she's not being fought, isn't in the shelter, and has food, vetcare, toys, and a warm place to sleep.

I hope I can take her in too. My mom, however, will be less than thrilled. She doesn't like Pit Bulls and she says that Sasha gives her the creeps and she feels like she's going to be eaten.
My younger brother, however, ADORES Sasha. He was really attached to the Leader Dog puppy we raised, Sadie, and he's really missed having "his" dog. When we watched Sasha he really clicked with her. I think he likes her as much as I do. Nobody else in the family minded her either, even my dad (which just about blew my socks off).

Hopefully you'll get her and take plenty more pics! While she might not be in the best home, I agree that sounds like a decent home. Better then many dogs get.

[lute]

He is such a wonderful dog, Spicy. :) He gives so many kisses and he LOVES milkbones. :) He just loves everything and everyone. He was really good with my co-workers' dog I forgot she was out there and she is a longhaired chihuahua and he just tried to kiss her. :) his "owners" suck though he actually jumped off a bridge we think he was pushed off.
:mad: he is fine though he had to have 5 teeth extracted he fell on his face and he hurt his leg but he's all fine now and all ready to go for adoption once he has another check up at the vets. If I didn't have a house full, he'd so come home with me. :D

Poor dog!:( It may be possible that he jumped though. Brick use to go cliff diving in the river. He wasn't afraid of anything.

[CountryWolf07]

My brother brought home a 6 month old pit bull over the weekend, and his only intention was to keep her safe and not fall into the hands of the people who'd treat her wrong. Unfortunately, my two dogs, did not like her at all. I don't know why, but, Anna (husky) was very, very protective of Rosie (beagle) and all the puppy wanted to do was to dominate the beagle. Rosie just kept hiding and tried to avoid her while Anna growled and protected her. However, we had to give her back, so I hope that puppy finds a good home someday. What I have noticed was that she had SO MUCH energy, and she was strong like an ox. Wow. I do think they're sweet dogs, but, they are not for me.

[luvofallhorses]

Montee the one I posted a picture of he's fine, his "owners" sucked anyways they just bred him and bred him for money his original name was Money for that reason. :rolleyes: he's the best example of the breed and he got adopted last week to an amazing home with a young boy who he loves. :love: I miss him but they said they'd bring his sweet face to visit, he really makes me smile. :) I just fell so in love with him. I am a huge pit bull/bully breed person! :love:

[buttercup132]

:( Krista thats horrible

[Moesha]

My aunt was walking her dog today and they were attacked by two pitbulls that had gotten loose. Baskerville has some pretty deep wounds but should be ok. When they went to the owner's house he cursed at them and told them he'd said not to walk by his house because his dogs would get out. My aunt and uncle called the police to come out and tell him that they are free to walk on the road by his house.

[luvofallhorses]

:( Krista thats horrible

yeah but atleast he found the best new home. :) they LOVE him. :love: the vets LOVED him, too when he was at the hospital. :) he has that great affection of love you can't help but fall in love when you see his sweet handsome face. :) :love: he was for sure a staff favorite. :D that picture is my desktop background. :) he is such a happy, gentle, sweet, handsome soul. I wish everyone could meet him, he would definately change anyone's mind if they don't like pit bulls or are afraid of them. :) a little kid stuck his hand in his kennel the kid was like 3 years and Montee just licked it. :)

[Spicy_Bulldog]

My aunt was walking her dog today and they were attacked by two pitbulls that had gotten loose. Baskerville has some pretty deep wounds but should be ok. When they went to the owner's house he cursed at them and told them he'd said not to walk by his house because his dogs would get out. My aunt and uncle called the police to come out and tell him that they are free to walk on the road by his house.

What? Did they not give him a dog at large ticket? Is he going to pay the vet bills (if he went to the vet)? It seems like they should be doing more then telling him that your Aunt can walk her dog. Do they have leash laws there? Unfortunately we don't have one here so my dogs have been attacked several times and charged many other times. Even when I lived where there was a leash law though the same thing happened. Also I don't understand his logic. If he KNEW the dogs would get out why did he not fix the problem?! I don't understand some people at all.

[Moesha]

I don't know the answers to most of your questions. I'm dog/housesitting this week and had just heard that news from my mom. She didn't know many details. Baskerville did go to the vet. They decided not to put in stitches and try to let the wounds heal that way instead of taking a chance they wouldn't heal all the way down. She has a pretty big wound on her leg that if she starts to lick, she'll have to have a cone. Other than that I don't know much about it. I do know Baskerville was on her leash. I'm going to call my cousin in a while and ask for more details and check on them.

[Blackrose]

My brother brought home a 6 month old pit bull over the weekend, and his only intention was to keep her safe and not fall into the hands of the people who'd treat her wrong. Unfortunately, my two dogs, did not like her at all. I don't know why, but, Anna (husky) was very, very protective of Rosie (beagle) and all the puppy wanted to do was to dominate the beagle. Rosie just kept hiding and tried to avoid her while Anna growled and protected her. However, we had to give her back, so I hope that puppy finds a good home someday. What I have noticed was that she had SO MUCH energy, and she was strong like an ox. Wow. I do think they're sweet dogs, but, they are not for me.
They are really strong (and active too)! Chloe and Sasha both play with the leash in the same way...when they get very excited they'll grab ahold and start tugging. I let Chloe do it because it is a reward for her and she'll spit the leash out when I say, "Knock it off," but when Sasha started tugging on the leash I thought I was going to be pulled flat on my face! She also likes to play tug with her rope toys and I don't think I could ever win if I tried. LOL


My aunt was walking her dog today and they were attacked by two pitbulls that had gotten loose. Baskerville has some pretty deep wounds but should be ok. When they went to the owner's house he cursed at them and told them he'd said not to walk by his house because his dogs would get out. My aunt and uncle called the police to come out and tell him that they are free to walk on the road by his house.
What kind of screwed up person is that? It shouldn't be that hard to keep your dogs contained on your property! I'm glad Baskerville is allright...my dogs and I have been jumped by loose dogs plenty of times on walks but I don't think I've ever had an owner yell at me not to walk by because their dog was out...

[tigerkat]

:love: pit bulls are the best dogs.
i will never go a day without any of mine!!!
:love:

[Pawsitive Thinking]

In the proper hands they are wonderful dogs

[Suki Wingy]

Moesha, you should try and convince them to get the irresponsible owners to pay the vet. It's their fault the dogs were running off leash. It's idiots like that that can ruin any breed.

[lute]

In the proper hands they are wonderful dogs

I'm am not bashing your comment at all. For some reason when I read it, it struck me funny. When talking about pit bulls this comments comes up a lot. I've even said it myself. BUT if you think about it, like I just happened to, wouldn't this go for ALL breeds? Not just the bully breeds? Any dog can be made aggressive. IMHO this comment can hinder the connection we try to make with Pit Bulls becomming good companions for normal every day people who think these dogs should be exterminated. It makes the dog sound like it IS a danger and you have to know how to "control the beast" in order for it to be a good dog. This couldn't be further from the truth. Infact the way to have a good level headed Pit Bull as a loving companion is good socialization as a puppy and a firm but not too firm owner. The same goes with any breed. There is nothing good socialization and training can't do.

I guess maybe I put too much thought into this small saying. For some reason or another it just struck me tonight.

[Suki Wingy]

I've always thought the same. My dog's been attacked once, and lunged at twice, I can assure you, it was the owner's faults.

[leansnslobbers]

I don't see anything wrong with what Brody's Mom said. There are some dogs that are well known for not being "beginner" breeds, and the pit bull would typically fall into that classification. That doesn't mean that they are bad dogs, it just means it takes someone who understands the breed and knows what they entail.

For the average dog, there is a small scale of forgiveness for novice ownership. Not for pit bulls. If you make a mistake with a pit bull, the whole breed suffers.

So yes, in the right hands, they make superb pets. In the wrong hands, they'll end up just another statistic. :(

Just my two cents.

[Spicy_Bulldog]

I'm am not bashing your comment at all. For some reason when I read it, it struck me funny. When talking about pit bulls this comments comes up a lot. I've even said it myself. BUT if you think about it, like I just happened to, wouldn't this go for ALL breeds? Not just the bully breeds? Any dog can be made aggressive. IMHO this comment can hinder the connection we try to make with Pit Bulls becomming good companions for normal every day people who think these dogs should be exterminated. It makes the dog sound like it IS a danger and you have to know how to "control the beast" in order for it to be a good dog. This couldn't be further from the truth. Infact the way to have a good level headed Pit Bull as a loving companion is good socialization as a puppy and a firm but not too firm owner. The same goes with any breed. There is nothing good socialization and training can't do.

I guess maybe I put too much thought into this small saying. For some reason or another it just struck me tonight.

Yes it is true of all breeds, but we are talking of Pits not all breeds. So that is why they are saying in the right hands they make wonderful dogs. It doesn't at all sound like controlling the beast. It sounds like you need to be a responsible owner with them, they are blaming bad owners for the bad dogs and know that in the right hands Pit Bulls are wonderful.

Training and socialization doesn't remedy everything, it can help and control somethings. A lot of people also do not offer training or socialization that is why they said in the right hands, in the hands that will train and socialize instead of owners who will not do those things.

Pit Bulls are a wonderful breed in general and only take a responsible, sensible owner, the problem is those seem to be in short order lately. So I think that is why they were saying it, not because Pit Bulls are dangerous beast or anything. Pit Bulls can have a horrid life and be excellent dogs, just sweethearts who only need a little training. They have been bred to be friendly, forgiving and trusting.

[Blackrose]

Yes it is true of all breeds, but we are talking of Pits not all breeds. So that is why they are saying in the right hands they make wonderful dogs. It doesn't at all sound like controlling the beast. It sounds like you need to be a responsible owner with them, they are blaming bad owners for the bad dogs and know that in the right hands Pit Bulls are wonderful.

Training and socialization doesn't remedy everything, it can help and control somethings. A lot of people also do not offer training or socialization that is why they said in the right hands, in the hands that will train and socialize instead of owners who will not do those things.

Pit Bulls are a wonderful breed in general and only take a responsible, sensible owner, the problem is those seem to be in short order lately. So I think that is why they were saying it, not because Pit Bulls are dangerous beast or anything. Pit Bulls can have a horrid life and be excellent dogs, just sweethearts who only need a little training. They have been bred to be friendly, forgiving and trusting.
So true. But I do understand what Lute is saying.
I recentally read of a Cairn/Poodle mix that attacked an infant while it was asleep. Long story short (and lots of questions about the mom's competancy) the infant lived but needed reconstructive surgery and the pup was put down.
Now. Let's say I posted that article online on a dog forum (I actually did). How many replies do you think it would get that said all Cairnoodles ( :rolleyes: ) are inherintally aggressive, they should be liscensed like we liscense guns, they would never trust them, that groomers, doggy daycares, parks, and other places as such have the right to discriminate against them, and that insurance policies shouldn't cover them.
Funny, because a Pittie attacked a boy and the boy needed reconstructive surgery and those were the exact words that were coming out of people's mouths. It was the dog's fault. And yet, when I posted about the Cairn/poodle mauling, everyone was blaming the mother - not the dog. There were no sayings of "in the right hands this dog can be a wonderful mix". Nope, and BSL wasn't brought up at all.

Go figure.

I think the problem today is that is the Pitties turn in the "limelight". It was the Rotties, Dobermans, Chows, and GSDs. Those breeds were once the "pitbulls" of today. I'm just waiting for the focus to shift off of Pitties and onto another breed of dog...I'm just afriad of what it is going to be.

[lute]

So true. But I do understand what Lute is saying.
I recentally read of a Cairn/Poodle mix that attacked an infant while it was asleep. Long story short (and lots of questions about the mom's competancy) the infant lived but needed reconstructive surgery and the pup was put down.
Now. Let's say I posted that article online on a dog forum (I actually did). How many replies do you think it would get that said all Cairnoodles ( :rolleyes: ) are inherintally aggressive, they should be liscensed like we liscense guns, they would never trust them, that groomers, doggy daycares, parks, and other places as such have the right to discriminate against them, and that insurance policies shouldn't cover them.
Funny, because a Pittie attacked a boy and the boy needed reconstructive surgery and those were the exact words that were coming out of people's mouths. It was the dog's fault. And yet, when I posted about the Cairn/poodle mauling, everyone was blaming the mother - not the dog. There were no sayings of "in the right hands this dog can be a wonderful mix". Nope, and BSL wasn't brought up at all.

Go figure.

I think the problem today is that is the Pitties turn in the "limelight". It was the Rotties, Dobermans, Chows, and GSDs. Those breeds were once the "pitbulls" of today. I'm just waiting for the focus to shift off of Pitties and onto another breed of dog...I'm just afriad of what it is going to be.

Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about. Like you said, when talking about most other breeds or mixes other than pitties you get a totally different excuse of "who's" fault it is.

I just hope that someday nobody thinks of any breed as dangerous. Look deeper into the issue. See that any breed turns out this way by fault of the owner.

[Jessika]

We had a guest speaker come in to school, she is a lawyer with the ASPCA and a huge Pit fan. She would tell us all kinds of stories, but one that stuck out the most was -

she had two print-outs of probably 25 or so different breeds, and only ONE picture on each was an actual Pit Bull. She asked the class to try to identify the pit bull on the first slide. Every single one of us got it wrong. She asked us to identify the Pit Bull on the second slide. All but one student got it wrong.

She says she uses that when she gives presentations to police and other public forums and really pushes the whole BSL is wrong deal and a lot of times it's misidentification. When she shows it to police, how many times out of hundreds do you think they identified it correctly? That's right -- none.

So it's amazing to me that pittys have such a bad rap... but yet... no one can actually IDENTIFY one correctly in the first place!!!


She also told me another story about how DNA testing saved this dog's life. A man's dog was going to be PTS for no reason other than he RESEMBLED a pit bull (I say resembled, because the owner fought that he was indeed not a pit bull). Authorities of course said he was one and he was scheduled to be PTS. The owner decided to get DNA testing to confirm that his dog was not a pit, and the results came back, and he wasn't. The dog was released back into his custody and he still lives happy today :)


Another statistic, if I may... She also presented us with statistics on dog fighting going back probably till the 1920's or so. As far back as records go in the US, anyway. Of every single dog mauling ever, no death has ever occurred from a neutered pit bull male, translating to: responsible dog owners who spay and neuter their pets (and pits, of course), are MUCH less likely to become aggressive and "maul".


I just think, if more people were educated about what a pit actually LOOKS like first instead of lumping all the bully breeds together, and of course SPAY AND NEUTER, which to me is OBVIOUS, that's a step in the right direction...

[Blackrose]

I just think, if more people were educated about what a pit actually LOOKS like first instead of lumping all the bully breeds together,
That too. here is a story to give you a laugh:

My family and I were at my grandparents' house. Across the street was the HUGE Doberman barking his head off at us (he was in a fence, thank God, but considering the fence was only about four feet high....). My older brother (he was probably 18 at the time) looks at the dog, then looks at me and asks, "Is that a Pit Bull?" I just start busting up laughing and he can't figure out what is so funny. I tell him no, it is a Doberman, and he gets this sheapish look on his face and says, "Oh, ya, I knew that. I just couldn't remember what they were called." :rolleyes:

Just goes to show you how the common public identifies breeds.

[Spicy_Bulldog]

So true. But I do understand what Lute is saying.
I recentally read of a Cairn/Poodle mix that attacked an infant while it was asleep. Long story short (and lots of questions about the mom's competancy) the infant lived but needed reconstructive surgery and the pup was put down.
Now. Let's say I posted that article online on a dog forum (I actually did). How many replies do you think it would get that said all Cairnoodles ( :rolleyes: ) are inherintally aggressive, they should be liscensed like we liscense guns, they would never trust them, that groomers, doggy daycares, parks, and other places as such have the right to discriminate against them, and that insurance policies shouldn't cover them.
Funny, because a Pittie attacked a boy and the boy needed reconstructive surgery and those were the exact words that were coming out of people's mouths. It was the dog's fault. And yet, when I posted about the Cairn/poodle mauling, everyone was blaming the mother - not the dog. There were no sayings of "in the right hands this dog can be a wonderful mix". Nope, and BSL wasn't brought up at all.

Go figure.

I think the problem today is that is the Pitties turn in the "limelight". It was the Rotties, Dobermans, Chows, and GSDs. Those breeds were once the "pitbulls" of today. I'm just waiting for the focus to shift off of Pitties and onto another breed of dog...I'm just afriad of what it is going to be.

Yes I saw the article on DF. A doodle mix is not a breed of controversy that is why you do not see those things being said.

Pit Bulls are considered dangerous, killers, people just have to live with that if its the breed they want. Their in the negative light and bring in the ratings. People have many misconceptions about them. The only thing we can do is fight them and educate and remember we can't change everyone's minds.

However I do not feel that the poster was at all attacking Pit Bulls, only stating with good people they are good dogs.

I feel like you are just preaching to the choir about it and that the poster did not mean to offend. They were actually saying what you'd want them to say, that it isn't the dogs fault, it is the irresponsible owners fault. Just like people say about the doodle mix, that is what the poster here stated about Pit Bulls.


Another statistic, if I may... She also presented us with statistics on dog fighting going back probably till the 1920's or so. As far back as records go in the US, anyway. Of every single dog mauling ever, no death has ever occurred from a neutered pit bull male, translating to: responsible dog owners who spay and neuter their pets (and pits, of course), are MUCH less likely to become aggressive and "maul".

Do you mean statistics on dog biting?

LOL none of my intact male Pit Bulls have ever tried to bite anyone, let alone maul them. Just because someone choses not to s/n doesn't make them irresponsible. My dogs are not likely to become aggressive, man biters, dangerous, ect because they are bred properly, socialized to people and it is in their nature to be friendly to everyone they meet.

[Blackrose]

I feel like you are just preaching to the choir about it and that the poster did not mean to offend. They were actually saying what you'd want them to say, that it isn't the dogs fault, it is the irresponsible owners fault. Just like people say about the doodle mix, that is what the poster here stated about Pit Bulls.

Just to clear anything up, I wasn't offended. ;) Don't know if it came across that I was, but I wasn't.

[lute]

LOL none of my intact male Pit Bulls have ever tried to bite anyone, let alone maul them. Just because someone choses not to s/n doesn't make them irresponsible. My dogs are not likely to become aggressive, man biters, dangerous, ect because they are bred properly, socialized to people and it is in their nature to be friendly to everyone they meet.

I agree and disagree with you. It all depends on which dogs you keep intact. I have show dogs and pets. (All my dogs are companions first, but you know the difference I'm talking about.) ALL my "pets" are spayed/neutered. There is absolutely no reason for them to be intact. Having them spayed/neutered eliminates the chance of unwanted litters and prevents certain kinds of cancer in both sexes. In females you also don't have to bother with heat cycles. My show dogs are not spayed/neutered for obvious reasons. As soon as the dog is done showing/breeding it will be altered. No reason for them to be intact.

I strongly believe that unless the dog is actively showing/breeding it should be altered. All this crap you hear from people saying how "the dog wouldn't be a male without his balls!" or "I couldn't put my baby through surgery!" I see it as if your dog needs to keep intact to show Masculinity the owner has some sort of problem with their own Masculinity. If you can't put your poor baby through surgery just go ahead and run that risk of the dog getting pregnant and needing a c-section. That is a MUCH more dangerous surgery than a simple altering.

[Spicy_Bulldog]

I agree and disagree with you. It all depends on which dogs you keep intact. I have show dogs and pets. (All my dogs are companions first, but you know the difference I'm talking about.) ALL my "pets" are spayed/neutered. There is absolutely no reason for them to be intact. Having them spayed/neutered eliminates the chance of unwanted litters and prevents certain kinds of cancer in both sexes. In females you also don't have to bother with heat cycles. My show dogs are not spayed/neutered for obvious reasons. As soon as the dog is done showing/breeding it will be altered. No reason for them to be intact.

So it sounds like you agree with me then, not disagree. I did not say that no dogs should ever be spay/neutered. Having intact dogs doesn't make someone irresponsible is what I said. You have some intact yourself (like you said for obvious reasons showing/breeding) do you feel that you are irresponsible? Do you feel that your male dog is going to kill someone? Having them s/n does eliminate chances of certain cancers and increases the chances of others, especially if done early (pediatric s/n) in life. There are also other health factors in s/n vs intact. You will find positive and negative in both. My main concern in intact females is pyometra. Most pet owners they should s/n because of the possibility their dog could breed a female or their bitch become pregnant. Most are not responsible enough to have intact dogs, don't need intact dogs and it is stressful/taxing on them with the females at times. I never said that this was not the case.

What breed to you breed? Got any pics? Sorry I'm still kind of new.

[Jessika]

Do you mean statistics on dog biting?

LOL none of my intact male Pit Bulls have ever tried to bite anyone, let alone maul them. Just because someone choses not to s/n doesn't make them irresponsible. My dogs are not likely to become aggressive, man biters, dangerous, ect because they are bred properly, socialized to people and it is in their nature to be friendly to everyone they meet.

Did I say that owners who don't spay/neuter are irresponsible?? I just said that spaying and neutering IS responsible, and I do feel that way, and I'm sorry if you don't agree but that's what I think.

And I also said that neutered males are LESS LIKELY to bite, not they won't completely, whereas intact males ARE MORE LIKELY to bite, but not that they will.

And I'm obviously not talking about responsible pet owners... sure, dog bites and attacks can happen even with the most responsible owners, but it is more likely to occur with IRRESPONSIBLE owners, and irresponsible owners are obviously not going to get their pet from a responsible source, so most likely their pits will be poorly bred.

Don't be so quick to assume what I'm saying is against you, in fact we're really on the same side of the fence on this. My previous post was referring to irresponsible owners, and if you aren't irresponsible then there is no reason to take offense to anything that I've said.

[Spicy_Bulldog]

Did I say that owners who don't spay/neuter are irresponsible?? I just said that spaying and neutering IS responsible, and I do feel that way, and I'm sorry if you don't agree but that's what I think.

And I also said that neutered males are LESS LIKELY to bite, not they won't completely, whereas intact males ARE MORE LIKELY to bite, but not that they will.

And I'm obviously not talking about responsible pet owners... sure, dog bites and attacks can happen even with the most responsible owners, but it is more likely to occur with IRRESPONSIBLE owners, and irresponsible owners are obviously not going to get their pet from a responsible source, so most likely their pits will be poorly bred.

Don't be so quick to assume what I'm saying is against you, in fact we're really on the same side of the fence on this. My previous post was referring to irresponsible owners, and if you aren't irresponsible then there is no reason to take offense to anything that I've said.

I wasn't taking offense, sorry I didn't mean it that way. I was just saying that if someone doesn't s/n doesn't make them irresponsible is what I meant.

I guess my questions is why is a dog who is intact more likely to bite?

I know you were not speaking in absolutes, but saying things like more or less likely is still saying that one has a tendency over the other and basically as it reads it going to be more likely to happen, I just don't think it is true in general. In certain situations, a dominant male with temperament disorder around a female in heat and child gets bit. A neutered male wouldn't be frustrated and trying to get the female to breed with him who keeps pushing him and see the kid as a threat and have a temperament issue that escalates. So I do believe dogs with certain temperament problems might be more inclined to bite in certain situations then those who are not. Males as a whole I don't think so. A stable dog with proper handling and training who is intact is not going to be more likely to bite you then one that is not. I've been bit and know people who have been bit/attacked by both intact and s/n animals. I have been bit by an intact Chow and a neutered Poodle.

I think you proved the point that dogs owned by irresponsible people are probably more likely to bite and less likely to be neutered. To me doesn't translate to intact males are more likely to bite, it just happens that more irresponsible people own intact males.

I know what you mean about irresponsible people and all, but I just wanted to make it clear (about some responsible owners have intact dogs) and didn't mean to cause controversy.

The only kind of attack people have to worry about from my intact males is being licked and rolled on.

[Jessika]

As far as being intact versus spayed/neutered and biting goes, it boils down to hormones, and hormones have a huge role in a dog's temperament and actions. Not to say that all intact dogs will react violently in the same situations, but it's just more likely. This goes for -any- dog and -any- animal, not just pits.

You don't have to convince me that responsible owners can have pets that aren't spayed and neutered, as I said I used to be one of those, and my dog never got into a fight, was never aggressive, only got loose while in heat once (when I wasn't home and a family member was keeping an eye on her), and she never got pregnant. So I know it is entirely possible. I don't judge responsible or irresponsible owners solely on whether or not their dogs are fixed, in fact I try not to judge at all.

Oh, also another side note, I know in similar situations dogs can react one way or the other whether they are altered or not, it just so happens that statistically altered male pit bulls have never been the cause of a single human death in the history of dog attacks/bites in either the US or Missouri (I believe in the US though), and altered dogs - especially males - aren't driven by hormones as much as an intact dog would. I do not have the source of that information since it was given at a presentation from a guest speaker, however I can try to obtain it if you'd like since I found it -very- interesting.

I will say though, every pitty I've met in person, altered or not, has been a huge love-bug!

[lute]

So it sounds like you agree with me then, not disagree. I did not say that no dogs should ever be spay/neutered. Having intact dogs doesn't make someone irresponsible is what I said. You have some intact yourself (like you said for obvious reasons showing/breeding) do you feel that you are irresponsible? Do you feel that your male dog is going to kill someone? Having them s/n does eliminate chances of certain cancers and increases the chances of others, especially if done early (pediatric s/n) in life. There are also other health factors in s/n vs intact. You will find positive and negative in both. My main concern in intact females is pyometra. Most pet owners they should s/n because of the possibility their dog could breed a female or their bitch become pregnant. Most are not responsible enough to have intact dogs, don't need intact dogs and it is stressful/taxing on them with the females at times. I never said that this was not the case.

What breed to you breed? Got any pics? Sorry I'm still kind of new.

The only reason I said I disagreed with you is when you made the statement about not spaying/neutering is not a sign of irresponsibility I took it as you don't spay/neuter simply because you don't want to. I didn't realize you showed dogs. So yes, I agree with you.

No, I do not feel that my male would kill someone. Yes, I feel responsible because I do spay/neuter when the dog is done showing/breeding. Also dogs that do not turn out will be spayed/neutered.

The breed will be breeding is Australian Shepherd. I am working my way up to be a breeder. I feel you have to earn your title as a breeder. You can't just breed a litter and call yourself a "breeder". As of right now I am only working with a breeder. I do have a male Aussie I am getting ready to start showing. Hopefully everything passes and he can sire some successful litters!

These are a couple pics of my Aussie boy, Talon. He was about 4 mos in these pics. He's almost 7 months now.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/new%20camera%20pics/dogs/Picture007-2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/new%20camera%20pics/dogs/Picture005-2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/BeanieGracie/new%20camera%20pics/dogs/Picture008-3.jpg

[leansnslobbers]

I think the unaltered/altered debate (for me, anyways) boils down to this...

The people who have unaltered pets because of laziness or machoisms, are not likely responsible owners anyways. These are likely the same people whose dogs who are chained 24/7 with little to no socialization...teased and tormented by the neighborhood children, fed crappy food (and yes, I do believe that sometimes there is a correlation between crappy food and some types of behavior problems) encouraged to be "tough" etc.

Then there is another class of owners with unaltered dogs - people who show, people who do performance and feel that their dogs need to be "complete" to perform at their best, people who cannot alter their dogs because of some health reason (such as myself with my dane). These are responsible owners who are not apt to contribute to the other qualities that can lead to bad behavior.

There's no doubt in my mind that hormones can lead to aggression..but a responsible owner knows their dog well enough to head it off before it reaches a dangerous point. An irresponsible owner laughs, ignores it, or thinks it's cool until it's too late.

/ramble

[Big Poppa]

I love seeing everyones Pit pics. I've got tons of pics myself. Love APBTs!

Here is some of my pics.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/Santanachasefp.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/Stormchasergethide2.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/Zarastalking.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/May%202008%20II/Ryuplayful.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/May%202008%20II/Ryutug2-1.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/May%202008%20II/Alnbou3.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/Thunderoutside.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/April%2008/ryunthunderdball7.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/April%2008/nd41808b.jpg

This is a pile of bull
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b122/dadogs/May%202008/May%202008%20II/bullpile.jpg

My Pit is almost 4 months and weighs about 26 lbs. The sire weighs 90lbs and the Dam weighs 70lbs. By the weigh i got the runt, if that matters at all

[Spicy_Bulldog]

My Pit is almost 4 months and weighs about 26 lbs. The sire weighs 90lbs and the Dam weighs 70lbs. By the weigh i got the runt, if that matters at all

Are you asking about the size as an adult? The parents were large for APBTs. If you got the runt they might be small now but runts can catch up with their littermates/parents. You have to look at the pedigree also. Parents can potentially produce larger or smaller pups then themselves depending on whats behind them. I'd say your dog might not get quite as big as the parents but then again could have a growth spurt so it is hard to predict. Some have different growth rates and might seem like they will be very large but then slow down and not grow much. Others do the opposite and seem like they will stay small then have a couple growth spurts.

While the parents were large your pup isn't so much larger then your average APBT pup. At close to 4 months my more recent pups have been 14-20lbs but won't be so big as adults. One is about full grown now and 33lbs. Maybe your dog will be about 50-60lbs.