Politics and religion.

[blue]

Stupidly. (http://news.google.com/news?client=opera&rls=en&q=stupidly&sourceid=opera&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=N0FpSvnVFI7uswOy1oGYBQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1) That is all.

[RICHARD]

Im loving how butthurt the local CA beaurocrats are over the buget cuts.

Don't forget us poor bees turds that have to live here!;):D

---------------

I have to say this about the 'stupidly' comment and invite to the WH for a beer with the jack ass professor...


This would be my answer if I was the cop-

Thanks, but no thanks for the invite.

As prez, you probably have more important things to do than to host a beer bash in the home the taxpayers fund.

I think my fellow taxpayers would agree that a meeting with the prof, while drinking beer, isn't really going to change what happened-your friend and I just didn't have a good day, due to the fact that the race card was played during the incident......

Actually, I may change my mind, Beer and BS go hand in hand.

To be so naive to think that a 'beer at my house' will change race relationships is just about right for the current regime.

If that's the case, budget for free beer in racially diverse cities.

You'll create jobs for brewers, cops, doctors, lawyers, ambulance drivers, paramedics......
:rolleyes:

[Medusa]

Don't forget us poor bees turds that have to live here!;):D

---------------

I have to say this about the 'stupidly' comment and invite to the WH for a beer with the jack ass professor...


This would be my answer if I was the cop-

Thanks, but no thanks for the invite.

As prez, you probably have more important things to do than to host a beer bash in the home the taxpayers fund.

I think my fellow taxpayers would agree that a meeting with the prof, while drinking beer, isn't really going to change what happened-your friend and I just didn't have a good day, due to the fact that the race card was played during the incident......

Actually, I may change my mind, Beer and BS go hand in hand.

To be so naive to think that a 'beer at my house' will change race relationships is just about right for the current regime.

If that's the case, budget for free beer in racially diverse cities.

You'll create jobs for brewers, cops, doctors, lawyers, ambulance drivers, paramedics......
:rolleyes:

Obama speaks of "transparency". IMO, this is very transparent. This won't improve race relations one whit. It's so that he can protect his arse. He showed his arse by answering the question that never should've been asked in the first place.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Not all the crackpots are in Northern California!

Here is verbatim a letter to the editor from my local newspaper here in Southern California


Letter-writer Paula Finnegan is either too young or blinded by liberal glasses if she gives Cronkite a pass on exposing his liberalism [“Chronicling Cronkite,” July 21]. Does she realize there are a lot of widows of servicemen who died in Vietnam because of his nightly lies and liberal bias? He was instrumental in losing that war.
S. Saline

I never saw that in any of his obituaries! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

BBWWWAAAAhahahahhahahahahhahahahaha!

What a bunch of maroons!

It wasn't a black man who was breaking into the esteemed professors's it was a HISPANIC!

I bet the cop was praying for a "latino" to be a suspect....we usually run, the cops beat the crap out of us and THEN we have the charges dropped. Mr. SmartGuy got off easy- what a piker.....


I am really disappointed the cop agreed to go, everyone has a price. But, a bottle of beer, for pete's sake?

The Secret Servce is now looking for contractors to widen the door jambs for their visit.

Imagine getting all the Testicular Fortitude in the room!

[RICHARD]

Congratulations to Pancho Barnes for making it to the Supreme Court!

;)

[Grace]

Pancho Barnes (http://www.panchobarnes.com/pancho.html)

[catland]

I guess we can remove our favorite VP candidate from this forum, turns out she's actually a poet.:eek:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/william-shatner-makes-pal_n_246034.html

[sasvermont]

I happened to have been watching Conan last night when the "poetry" was read. You know, it wasn't bad at all. Unfortunately, the origin of the poem was meant to be a sentence of sorts. I thought the concept of turning the jumble into a poem was quite clever. Maybe Sarah should consider a career change and start to work some of the little, off-beat coffee houses.:):):):):o:)

[lizbud]

Pancho Barnes (http://www.panchobarnes.com/pancho.html)


What a interesting character. I would have loved to have met her
in person.:)

[RICHARD]

What a interesting character. I would have loved to have met her
in person.:)

One of the more interesting women to have put a mark on history?

I was watching PBS last night and they did a small story on the first Black woman to get a pilot's license. She had to go to France to get it and this was in the 30's?.:rolleyes:


This makes me laugh when everyone talks about women politicians. The 'real' women went out and did things they wanted to do 50-60 years before bras were burnt and S-A-X was revolutionized.

That is why SS isn't anything special.

She's a dolt who probably could not name 3 women who paved the way for her to become a SCJ.

There are MANY women in history who have done more, accomplished more and have been lost in the books of time-When you look at PB-flying around in a wood, wire and canvas plane and compare her to the wise latina lawyer sucking up to politicians to get a job?

Please.

SS may look like PB, but I can assure you that Barnes was far more deft, fearless and a real icon compared to some women here in the year 2009.

Barnes was a real woman.

WTF good would an encyclopedia have done for her?;):D

[blue]

RICHARD, you inform and bring the funnay like no other.

[blue]

I guess we can remove our favorite VP candidate from this forum, turns out she's actually a poet.:eek:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/william-shatner-makes-pal_n_246034.html

If anybody took that clip seriously, what am I thinking of course people took it seriously! People think the Daily Show is actually news, and now Conan is a news source.

[lizbud]

That is why SS isn't anything special.

She's a dolt who probably could not name 3 women who paved the way for her to become a SCJ.





Do you mean this" dolt" I wish I had a resume that was half as good.

http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Sonia_Sotomayor

[Edwina's Secretary]

Obviously "dolt" and not "anything special" are VERY relative terms!:D:D

She is probably a "twit" too...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Do you mean this" dolt" I wish I had a resume that was half as good.



Hmmmmm,

I was talking about my "old bag".:eek::rolleyes:

[lizbud]

Hmmmmm,

I was talking about my "old bag".:eek::rolleyes:



Hummmmm, just don't make me come over there.;)

[RICHARD]

Hummmmm, just don't make me come over there.;)

LOL, are you left or rightie?:D

--------

If my bag could talk you would be easily amused! :D

[Puckstop31]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2-Obama-officials-No-apf-2491158742.html?x=0&.v=7



President Barack Obama's treasury secretary said Sunday he cannot rule out higher taxes to help tame an exploding budget deficit, and his chief economic adviser would not dismiss raising them on middle-class Americans as part of a health care overhaul.


And why, dearest Timmy, is the deficit exploding again?

Health care reform? That has not even been passed into law yet, thus not having had ITS opportunity to fail and thus "require" you to raise our taxes even more....



"Most private forecasters -- and let's use their judgment -- suggest you're going to see unemployment start to come down maybe beginning in the second half of next year," Geithner said, adding those same economists predict positive growth during the second half of this year.

Not if you increase taxes you moron. You are supposed to be the "smartest econonmist out there."


But then again.... Is everything still going according to plan?

[blue]

Is everything still going according to plan?

Yes.

[RICHARD]

Now, DO you really think that it is a wise decision to send Bill Clinton to try and secure the release of those two ding a lings (pun intended) in North Korea is a good idea?

You have to read this while doing BC's voice.

"Hey Barack, I hear you got two young women that need help?"
"I think I could get them out, they'd really be thankful and maybe....."


THUNK!

"What was THAT for, Hillary?":eek:

-------------------

http://www.kfsm.com/news/ktla-obama-posters,0,932295.story


Funny, the last president was seen sporting horn and cloven hoofs and no one cared about that?

I wonder why our new pres has been deemed off limits to a little political buffonery?

Morons.

[RICHARD]

Again, I apologize for Baba Boxer and Nutsy Pelosi.

I have yet to see any reports of people wearing swastikas or showing up 'well dressed' to the forums where the politicians are getting hammered for their presentations of the regime's HCR!

----------

And what is it? Health care reform, insurance reform or ??? It changes as the problems mount for the prez!?!:confused:

[lizbud]

Again, I apologize for Baba Boxer and Nutsy Pelosi.

I have yet to see any reports of people wearing swastikas or showing up 'well dressed' to the forums where the politicians are getting hammered for their presentations of the regime's HCR!

----------

And what is it? Health care reform, insurance reform or ??? It changes as the problems mount for the prez!?!:confused:




Quit whining about your Calif. Senators. Indiana has some of our own we
try to keep track of.

[RICHARD]

Quit whining about your Calif. Senators. Indiana has some of our own we
try to keep track of.



Obviously your senators are more well mannered and more in tune with the masses, THAT is why we have never heard of them and would not know them if we saw them on TV.

Quit promoting their invisibility.:eek:;)

[lizbud]

Obviously your senators are more well mannered and more in tune with the masses, THAT is why we have never heard of them and would not know them if we saw them on TV.

Quit promoting their invisibility.:eek:;)

If you never heard of Senator Richard Lugar, you are seriously stupid
about Politics.

[Edwina's Secretary]

If you never heard of Senator Richard Lugar, you are seriously stupid
about Politics.

You must understand Liz...some people in California think that it...and they...are the center of the universe and of far more interest and importance than anywhere else! :D;):D It is one of the things that makes living here so...interesting....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Grace]

What on earth is going on with people these days?

A Democratic Congressman from Maryland, Frank Kratovil, was hung in effigy last month - all because of health care.

[blue]

What on earth is going on with people these days?

A Democratic Congressman from Maryland, Frank Kratovil, was hung in effigy last month - all because of health care.

Wasnt Bush, burned in effigy? McCain, and Obama where both hung in effigy last year correct? So whats new?

What did this Lugar fellow do? Is he related to Lex?

[RICHARD]

If you never heard of Senator Richard Lugar, you are seriously stupid
about Politics.

I am seriously stupid about politics, at first I thought it was some kind of mental block, now I know it's just plain stupidity-with a little depravity and a dose of anger tossed in to really unbalance me. :(

Thank god I live in Cah Lee Fuh Nee Ah, where most of us are Dangerously Stupid, so I don't seem so out of place.;)

I dont pay too much attention to the people running other states, I have to try and vote out the idiots running mine. Hence the whining!

It started out a mumbling, then humming, now whining. You should see me when i toss a snit. It's not funny, really!

[Puckstop31]

What on earth is going on with people these days?

A Democratic Congressman from Maryland, Frank Kratovil, was hung in effigy last month - all because of health care.

I think it is a shame that people have to resort to extreme stuff like this to get the arrogant jerks to listen. But, alas, they still won't.

But they WILL approve another $500 million for fancy airplanes for themselves.

The people are angry and justly so. I don't know about you, but I don't want the feds to have a "debit" feed into my bank account... So they can take taxes that way. Its in the "health care" bill. They say that they don't want to destroy private insurance.... Then why deny me the ability to renew my private insurance when it expires? Its in the bill....

The people are angry because this is NOT about health care. Its about what most politicians want. Power. Ask yourself... Ask yourself why is this such a freaking emergency NOW? POTUS took 6 months to figure out what dog they wanted... But they want to shove a 2 trillion dollar bill up our rears, like that? The people are angry because they do not listen to us. We are sick of being talked down to.

Also, never forget that the primary purpose of the 1st Amendment is to protect "offensive" political speech.


The last line of the Declaration of Independance....

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."


Do you feel that any Congress or President in the past 20 years has been truly worthy to be cast in the same mold as the men who wrote this? Rather than pledging THEIR lives, THEIR fourtunes and THEIR <snicker> sacred Honor... They do just the opposite.


The people are angry and rightly so. If they do not start listening to us, I fear for what might happen.

[RICHARD]

Wasnt Bush, burned in effigy? McCain, and Obama where both hung in effigy last year correct? So whats new?

What did this Lugar fellow do? Is he related to Lex?


At first I thought Lugar was the dude that invented the pistol.

He's just another Dick, Like me!:)

--------------------

500 million for planes?

Yep, they take the food out of the mouths of the people working on the f-22s, but get themselves a nice ride?


Nutsy Pelosi doesn't need the plane....she already has government subsidised transit.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Thank god I live in Cah Lee Fuh Nee Ah,
where most of us are Dangerously Stupid,
so I don't seem so out of place. ;)

... It started out a mumbling, then humming, now whining.
You should see me when I toss a snit.
It's not funny, really!

Maybe not *phunnie* ...

But I'll still pay to watch!
When's the next show start?

;)

[Puckstop31]

Better yet... If he plan is so great, why is Congress exempt from it?


"The house of representatives ... can make no law which will not have its full operation on themselves and their friends, as well as the great mass of society. This has always been deemed one of the strongest bonds by which human policy can connect the rulers and the people together. It creates between them that communion of interest, and sympathy of sentiments, of which few governments have furnished examples; but without which every government degenerates into tyranny."
Federalist No. 57, February 19, 1788

[RICHARD]

Maybe not *phunnie* ...

But I'll still pay to watch!
When's the next show start?

;)

Welcome back, my friends, to the show that never ends!
We're so glad you could attend, Come inside, come inside!
:D

It's actually quite boring.

My snits consist of thinking up funny names for elected officials and bathing in water heated by the sun.

We are the center of the universe.

Why else would we have asteroids passing thru, banging into stuff?

-------------

Sometime the "self importance" thing rubs off on people who don't realize it.:confused::cool:;)

[RICHARD]

A Democratic Congressman from Maryland, Frank Kratovil, was hung in effigy last month - all because of health care.

I wouldn't mind being "hung" in effigy. It only makes the lore that much more interesting?:(:rolleyes::confused:;)

[Grace]

I just received this in an email, and it seems to fit right in with the current conversation.


A busload of politicians were driving down a country road when all of a sudden, the bus ran off the road and crashed into a tree in an old farmer's field.

The old farmer, after seeing what had happened, went over to investigate.

He then proceeded to dig a hole to bury the politicians.

A few days later the local sheriff came out, saw the crashed bus, and asked the old farmer where all the politicians had gone.

The old farmer said he had buried them.

The sheriff asked the old farmer, 'Were they all dead?'

The old farmer replied, 'Well, some of them said they weren't, but you know how them bastards lie.'

[RICHARD]

Thought I'd throw a little more symbolism into the mix!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/rush-limbaugh-compares-new-health-care-logo-to-nazi-swastika.html

Now, this coming from Lush Limbaugh doesn't make it any more pertinent than any other bobo's observation. I just wanted to lighten up the current conversation.

----------------

Grace,
Farmers can often tell what a crop/animal needs just by looking at it.
I find his assessment of the politicians to be within the realm of reason.

God, Now we just have to find enough farmers to run the country!:D

[Grace]

I just had a wonderful thought - let's herd Nancy Pelosi, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Barbara Boxer, and anyone else you deem fit, into a nuclear sub.

Same sub will be piloted into the middle of an ocean of your choice. The skipper will then disembark, taking with him the nuclear core.

Let them sit and stew for awhile. Who would last the longest?

[RICHARD]

I just had a wonderful thought - let's herd Nancy Pelosi, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Barbara Boxer, and anyone else you deem fit, into a nuclear sub.

Same sub will be piloted into the middle of an ocean of your choice. The skipper will then disembark, taking with him the nuclear core.

Let them sit and stew for awhile. Who would last the longest?

Actually, can't we sink the sub, with the core in it?
Just to make sure?

(Limbaugh, He's lost weight and is more likely to cannibalize the rest?:eek:)

-------

I never was a fan of any of the TV/Radio pundits. I'd watch-Now a days we have to see what everyone says and make up our own minds about the 'news'

I'd listen, but now, more than ever, most of them cut off people when they do not get the answer they want. Hannity is the best at this tactic.


----------

P.S. Why doesn't Nutsy P. -that's her Rap Name- go out and meet the masses before she promises she has enough votes to pass any laws? In typical out-of-touch lawmakers logic, she sends all the poor reps to take the heat for her and the HCR debacle.....


Isn't it funny that the Dems held their forked tongues when the Code Pink AHs, Anti War AHs, Anti Capitalism AHs that broke up/spoke up at other town meetings? Now that they are getting the same treatment they begin to cry and snivel about the same tactics???



Send out security! or in the immortal words of an idiot trouble maker?


Don't Tase me, Bro!!!

[Grace]

Actually, can't we sink the sub, with the core in it?
Just to make sure?

(Limbaugh, He's lost weight and is more likely to cannibalize the rest?:eek:)

I was rethinking this. We should sink it, and fix it so they can't bring it up by themselves. Let them have AC and water - and let them eat cake!




I'd listen, but now, more than ever, most of them cut off people when they do not get the answer they want. Hannity is the best at this tactic.

So you really should tune in Rachel Maddow one evening. She does not cut guests off, nor does she talk over them. She interviews all sorts - last night there was some far right person. You could sort of tell from her expressions how she felt about him. But she was consistently polite, and thanked him for coming on.



P.S. Why doesn't Nutsy P. -that's her Rap Name- go out and meet the masses before she promises she has enough votes to pass any laws? In typical out-of-touch lawmakers logic, she sends all the poor reps to take the heat for her and the HCR debacle.....

Just for you, dear - How Nancy will spend the August recess. (http://http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25859.html)

[RICHARD]

Just for you, dear - How Nancy will spend the August recess. (http://http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25859.html)

RM reminds me of my older sister.:eek: Not a good thing, Oh, I do tune in to her show also-not for long, but I do tune in!

The link doesn't go!

I'll find it on the site!

[Grace]

That's strange. Can you just do a copy and paste of this -

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25859.html


That one works for me - right now.

[RICHARD]

What?

No shopping or traveling?

I stand corrected! She's a real great politician!:D

----------

Have you ever seen her hubby?

I wanted to see what he looked like, but have passed on 'googling' him. I want to wait until he appears on his own accord- No, not driving an Accord,
That family seems like the Town Car Elite!:D

[catland]

If you never heard of Senator Richard Lugar, you are seriously stupid
about Politics.


Lugar? Is this another 2nd amendment issue?

----
"stupid" (by meriam webster) slow of mind : obtuse b : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner c : lacking intelligence or reason : brutish

maybe "ignorant" fits better?

"ignorant" 1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics>

[lizbud]

So you really should tune in Rachel Maddow one evening. She does not cut guests off, nor does she talk over them. She interviews all sorts - last night there was some far right person. You could sort of tell from her expressions how she felt about him. But she was consistently polite, and thanked him for coming on.




Last nights show was especially interesting. She doesn't ask the "usual"
questions which makes for a good conversation.

[RICHARD]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-naw-pelosi-hoyer-health11-2009aug11,0,4079175.story

Reporting from Washington — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, insisting at the start of a long and politically heated summer congressional recess that healthcare reform can be achieved this fall, today are calling the disruption of "town-hall'' meetings by vocal protesters "simply un-American.''

"We believe it is healthy for such a historic effort to be subject to so much scrutiny and debate,'' Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Hoyer (D-Md.) write in an Op-ed essay published by USA Today.

Since I stupidly obsess about my reps, I am going to call Steny Hoyer a moron, just to balance things out. And I am going to make fun of his name, too! Steny?

Dissent is good?

Yeah, when she is not the subject of the public's ire..
I love it.

When our reps start asking that the attendees show courtesy at these THMs they should be reminded that they show us no courtesy when they go to Washington and make us believe they are there in our best interest.

The new, young, hip regime in power is going to have to deal with the old, cunning and way smarter voting blocs. BO didn't count on people, who have worked most of their lives to get what they have, getting mad.

In Health Care, the rule is 'We cannot give you the care you grew up with, so suck it up."

-------------------------------


Now, I don't think that anything good comes out of people yelling at each other, but these two dimbulbs should keep their opinions to themselves. It's really UnAmerican to call Americans UnAmerican.

I am going to move to Russia next year. Their president doesn't play basketball.

He rides horses, sans T-shirt and is way more manly than OUR president.



I have seen my leader bowl.:rolleyes:

[Medusa]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-naw-pelosi-hoyer-health11-2009aug11,0,4079175.story

Reporting from Washington — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, insisting at the start of a long and politically heated summer congressional recess that healthcare reform can be achieved this fall, today are calling the disruption of "town-hall'' meetings by vocal protesters "simply un-American.''

"We believe it is healthy for such a historic effort to be subject to so much scrutiny and debate,'' Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Hoyer (D-Md.) write in an Op-ed essay published by USA Today.

Since I stupidly obsess about my reps, I am going to call Steny Hoyer a moron, just to balance things out. And I am going to make fun of his name, too! Steny?

Dissent is good?

Yeah, when she is not the subject of the public's ire..
I love it.

When our reps start asking that the attendees show courtesy at these THMs they should be reminded that they show us no courtesy when they go to Washington and make us believe they are there in our best interest.

The new, young, hip regime in power is going to have to deal with the old, cunning and way smarter voting blocs. BO didn't count on people, who have worked most of their lives to get what they have, getting mad.

In Health Care, the rule is 'We cannot give you the care you grew up with, so suck it up."

-------------------------------


Now, I don't think that anything good comes out of people yelling at each other, but these two dimbulbs should keep their opinions to themselves. It's really UnAmerican to call Americans UnAmerican.

I am going to move to Russia next year. Their president doesn't play basketball.

He rides horses, sans T-shirt and is way more manly than OUR president.



I have seen my leader bowl.:rolleyes:

So, if it's healthy for HCR to be the subject of scrutiny and debate, then how are the protesters un-American. That makes no sense. :rolleyes:

[Grace]

So, if it's healthy for HCR to be the subject of scrutiny and debate, then how are the protesters un-American. That makes no sense. :rolleyes:

It makes more sense if the entire article is read.

(Nancy Pelosi/USA TODAY)

We believe it is healthy for such a historic effort to be subject to so much scrutiny and debate. The failure of past attempts is a reminder that health insurance reform is a defining moment in our nation's history — it is well worth the time it takes to get it right. We are confident that we will get this right.

Already, three House committees have passed this critical legislation and over August, the two of us will work closely with those three committees to produce one strong piece of legislation that the House will approve in September.

In the meantime, as members of Congress spend time at home during August, they are talking with their constituents about reform. The dialogue between elected representatives and constituents is at the heart of our democracy and plays an integral role in assuring that the legislation we write reflects the genuine needs and concerns of the people we represent.

However, it is now evident that an ugly campaign is underway not merely to misrepresent the health insurance reform legislation, but to disrupt public meetings and prevent members of Congress and constituents from conducting a civil dialogue. These tactics have included hanging in effigy one Democratic member of Congress in Maryland and protesters holding a sign displaying a tombstone with the name of another congressman in Texas, where protesters also shouted "Just say no!" drowning out those who wanted to hold a substantive discussion.

Let the facts be heard

These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades.

Health care is complex. It touches every American life. It drives our economy. People must be allowed to learn the facts.



Entire article here. (http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unamerican-attacks-cant-derail-health-care-debate-.html?loc=interstitialskip)


I'm not gung-ho on the health care thing right now, but I do think constant disruptions of these meetings will certainly not educate anyone.

[Medusa]

It makes more sense if the entire article is read.


Entire article here. (http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unamerican-attacks-cant-derail-health-care-debate-.html?loc=interstitialskip)


I'm not gung-ho on the health care thing right now, but I do think constant disruptions of these meetings will certainly not educate anyone.

I have read the article and it still makes no sense to call people un-American for protesting. They call it "drowning out the facts"; that in itself is insulting because it implies that only their side have the facts, i.e, the truth. Shout downs don't solve anything but I can certainly understand frustration at the feeling of not being heard.

[Grace]

it still makes no sense to call people un-American for protesting.

I've been thinking about this, and, of course, you are correct. Protesting is part and parcel of the history of this great country.

It's the yelling and screaming that bother me the most. And I know there was plenty of that in the 18th century. But when folks yell and scream at each other, no one gets the message - so how are we to make sense of it all?

[lizbud]

Talking & asking questions are fine, but coming to meetings with a
protest rant, is not helpful at all. Not letting all voices be heard is not
democracy. Shutting off the normal give & take of a discussion, just
builds frustration & halts progress.

[Puckstop31]

Talking & asking questions are fine, but coming to meetings with a
protest rant, is not helpful at all. Not letting all voices be heard is not
democracy. Shutting off the normal give & take of a discussion, just
builds frustration & halts progress.


Sayeth the crazy Code Pink protestors. LOL


There are elements on both sides that partake of this behavior. I have seen video of morons being stupid and I have seen arrogant members of Congress ignoring and denegrating their constituents.


So much for "dissent being the highest form of patriotism".

[Grace]

Sayeth the crazy Code Pink protestors. LOL


Are you referring to women against the war? I had to google Code Pink, as I didn't know what it was.

If it is, then I guess I should join, as I have been against the war since Bush launched it in 2003.

[Puckstop31]

Are you referring to women against the war? I had to google Code Pink, as I didn't know what it was.

If it is, then I guess I should join, as I have been against the war since Bush launched it in 2003.


If in-human screaming in a high pitch voice, with the objective being drowning out the person speaking is your goal.... You would fit right in with Code Pink.

Code Pink are 60's era hippies who never grew up. But, they certainly do have their right to free speech. In fact, I encourage them to exercise that right.... Because everytime they do..... They show their ignorance.


Personally, I am torn on the current conflicts. Having been deployed to less than desirable places at government expense, i've seen this enemy, face to face. Had the motive been real, we could have ended it LONG ago. But sadly, the motive is to make money for certain companies.... So the war drags on.

I learned everything I needed to know the day we were read our ROE in October 1993. Thus the reason why I HATE our current government. How many GREAT men and women have been buried in the name of politics? By BOTH sides... I can name a few. I consoled on of their mothers, at his funeral.

Vote them ALL out. ANY incumbent. Make this a government OF THE PEOPLE.

[blue]

Are you referring to women against the war? I had to google Code Pink, as I didn't know what it was.

If it is, then I guess I should join, as I have been against the war since Bush launched it in 2003.

Code Pink calls the USMC criminals, and you think you should join Code Pink.

Code Pink has a counter recruitment movement for military service, and you guess you should join Code Pink.

It now seems to me, the purpose of your "In Memoriam (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Memoriam)" thread isnt supporting our men and women in uniform.

[Grace]

Code Pink calls the USMC criminals, and you think you should join Code Pink.

Code Pink has a counter recruitment movement for military service, and you guess you should join Code Pink.

It now seems to me, the purpose of your "In Memoriam (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Memoriam)" thread isnt supporting our men and women in uniform.

Did you read what I wrote - I had to google Code Pink, as I didn't know what it was.

I did not know what it was: I had to google to find out. I saw it was a group of women against the war. I am, and have been since 2003, against the war.

I did not know the things you just mentioned - maybe they are true - maybe not.

[Grace]

If in-human screaming in a high pitch voice, with the objective being drowning out the person speaking is your goal.... You would fit right in with Code Pink.

Code Pink are 60's era hippies who never grew up. But, they certainly do have their right to free speech. In fact, I encourage them to exercise that right.... Because everytime they do..... They show their ignorance.


Personally, I am torn on the current conflicts. Having been deployed to less than desirable places at government expense, i've seen this enemy, face to face. Had the motive been real, we could have ended it LONG ago. But sadly, the motive is to make money for certain companies.... So the war drags on.

I learned everything I needed to know the day we were read our ROE in October 1993. Thus the reason why I HATE our current government. How many GREAT men and women have been buried in the name of politics? By BOTH sides... I can name a few. I consoled on of their mothers, at his funeral.

Vote them ALL out. ANY incumbent. Make this a government OF THE PEOPLE.

I am not a screamer. My mother raised me to be polite. I would be totally embarrassed to have my picture plastered across the pages of the press as some have been this last week.

Hippie - no, never.

[blue]

Did you read what I wrote - I had to google Code Pink, as I didn't know what it was.

I did not know what it was: I had to google to find out. I saw it was a group of women against the war. I am, and have been since 2003, against the war.

I did not know the things you just mentioned - maybe they are true - maybe not.

I did read what you wrote, I even reread it as I responded.

I came to the conclusion I did because I reread what you wrote. You didnt see the link for Code Pink calls marines war criminals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmdrkmtkCw4) when you Googled (http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=code+pink&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) Code Pink? Or on Code Pinks website you didnt see....


What is Counter-Recruitment?

Counter-recruitment is a national movement to resist the recruitment of young people into the US military.

Counter-recruitment has several components: informing youth of the realities of military service; resisting recruitment through the schools via JROTC and testing; taking action on military sexual trauma; offering career alternatives to the military; vigiling and protesting in front of military recruiting offices; giving support to war resisters and veterans; and building awareness of militarism in our culture.

Our section on national counter-recruitment groups lists 21 active groups. Behind those websites and organizations stand combat veterans, researchers, high school teachers, civil rights attorneys, sexual abuse survivors, mothers and fathers, city government officials, students and artists. CODEPINK is proud to bring our lively woman-centered activism to the movement.

link. (http://www.codepinkalert.org/article.php?id=3911#crdefined)

[Puckstop31]

http://www.codepinkalert.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aAU76bqL4Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmdrkmtkCw4


I was not a Marine. I was a United States Army Soldier. I had the privilidge of serving in combat. My best friend died while serving his country. It should have been me. Really.


These morons have NO IDEA what it costs to be free.


Again, I encourage them to speak freely. The simply show how stupid and ignorant they are. I LOVE it when they talk about "freedom of speech" and then denegrate the men and women who ensure it.

[Puckstop31]

I am not a screamer. My mother raised me to be polite. I would be totally embarrassed to have my picture plastered across the pages of the press as some have been this last week.

Hippie - no, never.

I know that.


Thank you. You are a model of grace... Grace. :)

[Grace]

I did read what you wrote, I even reread it as I responded.

I came to the conclusion I did because I reread what you wrote. You didnt see the link for Code Pink calls marines war criminals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmdrkmtkCw4) when you Googled (http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=code+pink&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) Code Pink? Or on Code Pinks website you didnt see....



link. (http://www.codepinkalert.org/article.php?id=3911#crdefined)

I googled them - quickly saw on wikpedia they were an organization for women against the war. I did not visit their website; I did not read any further than I just said: I did not see any videos.

You can believe me or not - I really don't care.

[Grace]

I know that.


Thank you. You are a model of grace... Grace. :)

Thank you, Puck.

[blue]

I googled them - quickly saw on wikpedia they were an organization for women against the war. I did not visit their website; I did not read any further than I just said: I did not see any videos.

You can believe me or not - I really don't care.

I have no doubt you Googled them. I am at a loss why you would go to wikipedia and not check out their site for yourself.

I really am begining to think that you do not care, in memorial (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/memorial).

[Grace]

She can't seem to get out from under his shadow :(


KINSHASA, Congo (AP) — U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's temper flared on Monday when a Congolese university student asked her for her husband's thinking on an international financial matter.

A week after former President Bill Clinton traveled to North Korea to secure the release of two detained American journalists and stole the limelight from the start of his wife's first trip to Africa, Clinton was clearly displeased by the question at town hall forum in Kinshasa.

''You want me to tell you what my husband thinks?'' she replied incredulously when the male student asked her what ''Mr. Clinton'' thought of World Bank concerns about a multibillion-dollar Chinese loan offer to the Congo.

''My husband is not secretary of state, I am,'' an obviously annoyed Clinton said sharply. ''If you want my opinion, I will tell you my opinion. I am not going to be channeling my husband.''

The question was left unanswered as the moderator of the event quickly moved on.

[Puckstop31]

I have no doubt you Googled them. I am at a loss why you would go to wikipedia and not check out their site for yourself.

I really am begining to think that you do not care, in memorial (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/memorial).


Give her some time to check it out.

Grace is not like the others Dan. She might disagree, but she is honest.

[blue]

Give her some time to check it out.

Grace is not like the others Dan. She might disagree, but she is honest.

I agree she is honest.

This might be a reason why she might reconsider joining Code Pink....

http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/code-pink-murder-troops.jpg

ETA: That pic looks chopped so here are a few others.

http://caosblog.com/images/moas.jpg

http://caosblog.com/images/freepcodepink.jpg

http://caosblog.com/images/picture_040_small.jpg

[blue]

I have to make a public apology to Grace.

I quoted and linked the word "memoriam (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/memoriam)" which isnt a word according to http://dictionary.reference.com/. However in memoriam (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/in+memoriam) is, and Grace has properly used it.

I could be an AH and just edit my previous posts, but I will man up and simply apologize.

[Edwina's Secretary]

She can't seem to get out from under his shadow :(

As it turns out...the translator made a mistake. The student was asking what President Obama thinks about the issue.

I don't blame her....I would be annoyed if someone asked my what my husband thinks about an issue. Reminds me of the first time I served on jury duty and the attorney asked me what my father did for a living - not what I did, not what my mother did -

[RICHARD]

And your special guest referee for today's event is Senator Arlen Spector!
:D

With no 'disrespect' meant to our wonderful lawmakers?

Ya get what you sow, morons.

-------------

Watch the prez' THM meeting today.....

That should be interesting.

---------------

Poor Hillary,

She put on the 'shrew' in Africa, eh?

Now, her reaction wasn't very politically correct was it?

Of course she can't channel Bill. why would she want to do THAT!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Now here is one wild and wacky woman!

Orly Taitz (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/08/03/msnbc_taitz/index.html)

How did she get in the country???

And here is a great clip of screeching in a high pitch voice, with the objective to drown out the person speaking... you know...also known as a person interested in a rational discussion of healthcare?

rational? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc)

It is going to be a long season!

[RICHARD]

Please.

Health INSURANCE Reform.

It's all wordage and unwillingness of people to see the direction the wind blows.

HCR and HIC are two different topics, What an incredible snow job we are getting from the current regime.

Health INSURANCE merely means you will get to see/talk to a doctor, Health care happens AFTER HE TELLS YOU you need to have your hang nail surgically removed.

It's like buying a ticket to an event/concert/game.

The people with money can afford to sit up front and SEE the event.

The people in the back are in the buidling and can barely make out the stage.

The people outdoors are SOL.


The only thing that HIR does is give you the chance to see a doctor, then take the chance that your ins co will tell you your procedure/tests are not covered.

If insurance companies are forced to test everyone, everytime- who will pay for that. And what will that do to premiums/costs.

---------

Before I forget.

Since I am against the current way BO is planning to go aobut HIR/HCR He insinuates that I am part of the problem. Please, This FW does not know the first thing about HOW med care is administered and how it works for and against the public.

INstead of taking on the COSTS of healthcare, he's taking on the way it is administered.

There no progress to be made here.
This is just a waste of time and the morons chanting, Yes We Can are just as much to blame.

Yes we can, but how much will it cost us?

--------

Let the stuttering begin.

[lizbud]

Did you read what I wrote - I had to google Code Pink, as I didn't know what it was.

I did not know what it was: I had to google to find out. I saw it was a group of women against the war. I am, and have been since 2003, against the war.

I did not know the things you just mentioned - maybe they are true - maybe not.


Now now ,Grace, don't go confusing Frick & Frack with actual facts.:D

[RICHARD]

Grace,

Number 8?

Catcher's interference.;)

-------------------

I have to say this-

Are the same people who do not want the gov't. listening to you phonecalls? Reading your emails and getting into your computer over the internet, in favor of having their medical history online and accessible to any hacker who decides to hack the system?

HAHAHAHAHA,

Wait until you are in the Doc's office and he cannot get any info about you because-

The system is slow today?
The system crashed!
I don't have a password?
I forgot my password?
My nurse who does the data entry/computers is sick today?


I worked for a HMO who had the effing worst comp systems on the planet.


I loved the days it rained because the system was a POS and I could count on doing 50% less work becuase the wiring was half asrsed and prone to problems.

----------------------


DO NOT BE FOOLED INTO BELIEVING THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT DICTATE YOUR HC.

I will say this again-

Look at the government standards for how long you can stay in a hospital bed-and what they reimburse for those stays, Then ask a provider about how timely those reinbursements are.

[Grace]

Now now ,Grace, don't go confusing Frick & Frack with actual facts.:D

Thanks lizbud - I needed that right about now http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif

[Grace]

Grace,

Number 8?

Catcher's interference.;)

Shouldn't this be in the baseball thread http://bestsmileys.com/sports2/24.gif

[Edwina's Secretary]

Now now ,Grace, don't go confusing Frick & Frack with actual facts.:D


Liz, Liz, Liz...are you suggesting photoshopped photos completely changing the message aren't "factual"????

I am shocked...absolutely shocked.

[RICHARD]

Shouldn't this be in the baseball thread http://bestsmileys.com/sports2/24.gif

Forgive me, I was just being stupid again.;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Look at the government standards for how long you can stay in a hospital bed-and what they reimburse for those stays, Then ask a provider about how timely those reinbursements are.

And then look at the SPD from your insurance company and see how long THEY let you stay in a hospital bed.

And ask a provider how timely THOSE reimbursements are!

I am confused by people who have no problem having their healthcare controlled by a for-profit insurance company yet go crazy at the idea of the government. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

It seems to me if it is good enough for the military...it should be good enough for the rest of the country.

[lizbud]

Thanks lizbud - I needed that right about now http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif



Yeah, I figured you did. :D Sometimes it's hard to take the high road
in these "discussions".

[RICHARD]

I trust Wilford Brimley and his degree in medicine more that I trust any elected Meat when it comes to medical advice.

:eek:

[Edwina's Secretary]

I trust Wilford Brimley and his degree in medicine more that I trust any elected Meat when it comes to medical advice.

:eek:

That is like saying insurance salespeople decide the premiums that will be charged. It is not how business - nor government - works.

There are working for the federal government many well-educated, knowledge people in the field of healthcare. The National Institutes of Health, for example is quite full of people who know a heck of a lot more about health, medicine and medical care than a former hospital clerk.

They don't make as much money as they could if they worked for...say a drug company...but they do it because it is something they believe.

To suggest that "any elected Meat"...(does that mean an elected official??) would be giving medical advice or making medical decisions without the support and input of medical professionals is disingenuous at best and an example of the fear tactics so prevalent in these discussions.

[mrspunkysmom]

I am confused by people who have no problem having their healthcare controlled by a for-profit insurance company yet go crazy at the idea of the government. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

It seems to me if it is good enough for the military...it should be good enough for the rest of the country.

I agree! I am now grown up army brat and I miss that part of the military. It worked just as well as this pay system. Now the military has their own version of HMO for retiress and their families but the charge is like $300 per year not per month with very few copays and those are for hospital stays.

But the insurance company is left out of it. and you can't sue the doctors. I wonder if behaviors would change if the doctors didn't have insurance companies to back them up.

[RICHARD]

But the insurance company is left out of it. and you can't sue the doctors. I wonder if behaviors would change if the doctors didn't have insurance companies to back them up.



There is TONS of stuff that goes on behind the scenes of a hospital visit/stay. I worked for an HMO, so the billing is a tad different.

Doctors have to submit paperwork to the insurance then the insurance has to claim with the Gov't. How much time does that take?

At my prev employment the ins/billing'coding was all done within the HMO, a bit faster, but still, the government is still involved.

If you want to find out about how a HMO/hospital/doctor submits a claim for patients, check out what a ICD-10 and DRG is.

A doc/hospital submits a code for your illness (The insurance being the go between) and the government pays the AVERAGE of the stay-depending on the code it's submitted under.

If you go in for an appnedectomy and get an infection you are seriously screwed. The facilities will do their damndest to 'advise' the physician that they must discharge you when the DRG says you need to go home.

MY former HMO told the docs NOT to order tests in order to keep costs down.

I'd tell the story of my GF's son who broke his arm and the doc told the parents, "aspirin and ice"! The child wailed thru the night and a SECOND visit to the MD, with an xray- confirmed a broken bone.

-----------------

An HMO runs just like gov't provided ins-you sign away your rights to sue or persue any legal action, should you want to have a resolution for a problem, call their ombudsman and they will gladly try to help you. THe operative word is TRY.


The real problem is the 'news blackout' about how and why med insurances are run. I do not mean to demean anyone on the site or this thread but-

Y'all needs to do your homework.

The way the president, the congress and the house or reps are trying to curry your favor about how and why the insurance/health care need to be voted on and passed make me laugh at the people who really want to have their government involved in your health and care.

I can probably go back and dig up quite a few posts about how DHS is looking at or private computer files and the anger and paranoia that people voiced in those posts, Yet, with a new regime and even more government scrutiny regarding blood tests, pap smears, Tb tests, prostate checks and a slew of other 'private' tidbits of your life they plan on housing in a HUGE data base-the same "the sky is falling" liberals have no problem with that.

Wonderful and amazing!

The hilarity comes at your expense.

A community organizer who want the government to change, is annointed as the end all, be all answer to all the problems we have.

We just have to let him become the new government and all the stupidity of the past gov't. will be resolved.

Repeat after me.

When this CF of an experiment fails, I will be true to my fellow citizens and apologize for being starstruck and claiming that "anyone but Bush" was good for the country.

You wanted it, you got it.;)

[blue]

Yeah, I figured you did. :D Sometimes it's hard to take the high road
in these "discussions".

You should try taking the high road sometime and see how it feels.

[blue]

Now now ,Grace, don't go confusing Frick & Frack with actual facts.:D

Grace got her info from wikipedia. I quoted Code Pink right from their website on disrupting military recruiting. Less recruiting means more forced retention of military members, not very supporting of our troops on the ground is it?

So lets see you bring some facts.



Liz, Liz, Liz...are you suggesting photoshopped photos completely changing the message aren't "factual"????

I am shocked...absolutely shocked.

What is shocking is the chopped photos are the end result of Code Pinks efforts.

[Puckstop31]

Praise God that SOMEbody on "the other side" gets it...

Camille Paglia


Buyer's remorse? Not me. At the North American summit in Guadalajara this week, President Obama resumed the role he is best at -- representing the U.S. with dignity and authority abroad. This is why I, for one, voted for Obama and continue to support him. The damage done to U.S. prestige by the feckless, buffoonish George W. Bush will take years to repair. Obama has barely begun the crucial mission that he was elected to do.

Having said that, I must confess my dismay bordering on horror at the amateurism of the White House apparatus for domestic policy. When will heads start to roll? I was glad to see the White House counsel booted, as well as Michelle Obama's chief of staff, and hope it's a harbinger of things to come. Except for that wily fox, David Axelrod, who could charm gold threads out of moonbeams, Obama seems to be surrounded by juvenile tinhorns, bumbling mediocrities and crass bully boys.

Case in point: the administration's grotesque mishandling of healthcare reform, one of the most vital issues facing the nation. Ever since Hillary Clinton's megalomaniacal annihilation of our last best chance at reform in 1993 (all of which was suppressed by the mainstream media when she was running for president), Democrats have been longing for that happy day when this issue would once again be front and center.

But who would have thought that the sober, deliberative Barack Obama would have nothing to propose but vague and slippery promises -- or that he would so easily cede the leadership clout of the executive branch to a chaotic, rapacious, solipsistic Congress? House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, whom I used to admire for her smooth aplomb under pressure, has clearly gone off the deep end with her bizarre rants about legitimate town-hall protests by American citizens. She is doing grievous damage to the party and should immediately step down.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Obama's aggressive endorsement of a healthcare plan that does not even exist yet, except in five competing, fluctuating drafts, makes Washington seem like Cloud Cuckoo Land. The president is promoting the most colossal, brazen bait-and-switch operation since the Bush administration snookered the country into invading Iraq with apocalyptic visions of mushroom clouds over American cities.

You can keep your doctor; you can keep your insurance, if you're happy with it, Obama keeps assuring us in soothing, lullaby tones. Oh, really? And what if my doctor is not the one appointed by the new government medical boards for ruling on my access to tests and specialists? And what if my insurance company goes belly up because of undercutting by its government-bankrolled competitor? Face it: Virtually all nationalized health systems, neither nourished nor updated by profit-driven private investment, eventually lead to rationing.

I just don't get it. Why the insane rush to pass a bill, any bill, in three weeks? And why such an abject failure by the Obama administration to present the issues to the public in a rational, detailed, informational way? The U.S. is gigantic; many of our states are bigger than whole European nations. The bureaucracy required to institute and manage a nationalized health system here would be Byzantine beyond belief and would vampirically absorb whatever savings Obama thinks could be made. And the transition period would be a nightmare of red tape and mammoth screw-ups, which we can ill afford with a faltering economy.

As with the massive boondoggle of the stimulus package, which Obama foolishly let Congress turn into a pork rut, too much has been attempted all at once; focused, targeted initiatives would, instead, have won wide public support. How is it possible that Democrats, through their own clumsiness and arrogance, have sabotaged healthcare reform yet again? Blaming obstructionist Republicans is nonsensical because Democrats control all three branches of government. It isn't conservative rumors or lies that are stopping healthcare legislation; it's the justifiable alarm of an electorate that has been cut out of the loop and is watching its representatives construct a tangled labyrinth for others but not for themselves. No, the airheads of Congress will keep their own plush healthcare plan -- it's the rest of us guinea pigs who will be thrown to the wolves.

With the Republican party leaderless and in backbiting disarray following its destruction by the ideologically incoherent George W. Bush, Democrats are apparently eager to join the hara-kiri brigade. What looked like smooth coasting to the 2010 election has now become a nail-biter. Both major parties have become a rats' nest of hypocrisy and incompetence. That, combined with our stratospheric, near-criminal indebtedness to China (which could destroy the dollar overnight), should raise signal flags. Are we like late Rome, infatuated with past glories, ruled by a complacent, greedy elite, and hopelessly powerless to respond to changing conditions?

What does either party stand for these days? Republican politicians, with their endless scandals, are hardly exemplars of traditional moral values. Nor have they generated new ideas for healthcare, except for medical savings accounts, which would be pathetically inadequate in a major crisis for anyone earning at or below a median income.

And what do Democrats stand for, if they are so ready to defame concerned citizens as the "mob" -- a word betraying a Marie Antoinette delusion of superiority to ordinary mortals. I thought my party was populist, attentive to the needs and wishes of those outside the power structure. And as a product of the 1960s, I thought the Democratic party was passionately committed to freedom of thought and speech.

But somehow liberals have drifted into a strange servility toward big government, which they revere as a godlike foster father-mother who can dispense all bounty and magically heal all ills. The ethical collapse of the left was nowhere more evident than in the near total silence of liberal media and Web sites at the Obama administration's outrageous solicitation to private citizens to report unacceptable "casual conversations" to the White House. If Republicans had done this, there would have been an angry explosion by Democrats from coast to coast. I was stunned at the failure of liberals to see the blatant totalitarianism in this incident, which the president should have immediately denounced. His failure to do so implicates him in it.

As a libertarian and refugee from the authoritarian Roman Catholic church of my youth, I simply do not understand the drift of my party toward a soulless collectivism. This is in fact what Sarah Palin hit on in her shocking image of a "death panel" under Obamacare that would make irrevocable decisions about the disabled and elderly. When I first saw that phrase, headlined on the Drudge Report, I burst out laughing. It seemed so over the top! But on reflection, I realized that Palin's shrewdly timed metaphor spoke directly to the electorate's unease with the prospect of shadowy, unelected government figures controlling our lives. A death panel not only has the power of life and death but is itself a symptom of a Kafkaesque brave new world where authority has become remote, arbitrary and spectral. And as in the Spanish Inquisition, dissidence is heresy, persecuted and punished.

Surely, the basic rule in comprehensive legislation should be: First, do no harm. The present proposals are full of noble aims, but the biggest danger always comes from unforeseen and unintended consequences. Example: the American incursion into Iraq, which destabilized the region by neutralizing Iran's rival and thus enormously enhancing Iran's power and nuclear ambitions.

What was needed for reform was an in-depth analysis, buttressed by documentary evidence, of waste, fraud and profiteering in the healthcare, pharmaceutical and insurance industries. Instead what we've gotten is a series of facile, vulgar innuendos about how doctors conduct their practice, as if their primary motive is money. Quite frankly, the president gives little sense of direct knowledge of medical protocols; it's as if his views are a tissue of hearsay and scattershot worst-case scenarios.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/08/12/town_halls/

[RICHARD]

Praise God that SOMEbody on "the other side" gets it...

Camille Paglia



http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/08/12/town_halls/

Great article.

Great summation-

What was needed for reform was an in-depth analysis, buttressed by documentary evidence, of waste, fraud and profiteering in the healthcare, pharmaceutical and insurance industries. Instead what we've gotten is a series of facile, vulgar innuendos about how doctors conduct their practice, as if their primary motive is money.


------------------------

Just got the news that an HMO is giving out 1,600 pink slips AFTER a 1.1 billion dollar profit report.

House keepers, biz office and transcriptionists are part of the work force getting axed.

Lovely.

[lizbud]

You should try taking the high road sometime and see how it feels.



I know how it feels, you should try it.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Just got the news that an HMO is giving out 1,600 pink slips AFTER a 1.1 billion dollar profit report.

House keepers, biz office and transcriptionists are part of the work force getting axed.

Lovely.

This statement supports....we've gotten is a series of facile, vulgar innuendos about how doctors conduct their practice, as if their primary motive is money....

Well done! You have made the best argument for healthcare reform - get the profit motive out of it....

[RICHARD]

Sheila Jackhole Lee is a POS.

I swear, When they flush her in the next election, I will drink until I pass out.



Let Us Pray.

Dear Republican Jesus,

(Democratic Jesus won't go near this topic.)

Please uncover the blind eye of the voters that put her into office. Let them see that THEIR rep has no respect for anyone she represents. I would like for her to become entangled with a scandal that chases her from office, But I'll get with my connections I have in Eternal Damnation, they have no problem with enticing morons to run afoul of what is good on the planet..



Amen!

[Grace]

Sheila Jackhole Lee is a POS.

I swear, When they flush her in the next election, I will drink until I pass out.

Let Us Pray.

Dear Republican Jesus,

(Democratic Jesus won't go near this topic.)

Please uncover the blind eye of the voters that put her into office. Let them see that THEIR rep has no respect for anyone she represents. I would like for her to become entangled with a scandal that chases her from office, But I'll get with my connections I have in Eternal Damnation, they have no problem with enticing morons to run afoul of what is good on the planet..

Amen!

Richard, go take a Valium right now :)

Are you referring to her talking on her cell while that young woman was asking her a question? I agree, she is a POS - and her day will come. Sooner, rather than later.

[RICHARD]

Richard, go take a Valium right now :)

Are you referring to her talking on her cell while that young woman was asking her a question? I agree, she is a POS - and her day will come. Sooner, rather than later.

LOL,

I have cold Tecate, limes and salt. And a vodka chaser for the meteor shower later on.

It's all about the nerve??

Of course, no one will call her out about it because that would be a "racist", eh?

I don't encourage people shouting other folks down, but having people call her up - that may have been in the same room- screams about her callousness and disregard toward the people she represents.

I am off to the medicine cabinet.

I have to shave.;)


------------------
http://content.comicskingdom.net/Mgoose/Mgoose.20090811_small.gif

[blue]

I know how it feels, you should try it.

Ill stay in the median between the roads. Your idea of the high road means talking down to people and being condescending, as proven by your response.

[blue]

You have made the best argument for healthcare reform - get the profit motive out of it....

Paging Lady's Human....

I made the same argument that insurance should be done by non profit corperations but others thought that was stupidly.

[Puckstop31]

This statement supports....we've gotten is a series of facile, vulgar innuendos about how doctors conduct their practice, as if their primary motive is money....

Well done! You have made the best argument for healthcare reform - get the profit motive out of it....


In typical "Media Matters" style, you pick a line and take it WAY out of context. Lets see what the whole paragraph looks like, shall we?

"What was needed for reform was an in-depth analysis, buttressed by documentary evidence, of waste, fraud and profiteering in the healthcare, pharmaceutical and insurance industries. Instead what we've gotten is a series of facile, vulgar innuendos about how doctors conduct their practice, as if their primary motive is money. Quite frankly, the president gives little sense of direct knowledge of medical protocols; it's as if his views are a tissue of hearsay and scattershot worst-case scenarios."


Looks a little different in context, eh?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Looks a little different in context, eh?


No

[Edwina's Secretary]

From yesterday's LA TIMES


Hundreds of people spent the night outside the Forum in Inglewood in hopes of getting free medical and dental care.

More than 2,000 sought services on the first day of the medical clinic -- and hundreds were turned away. People were lined up Tuesday night, hoping to get in. The MTA announced it was extending service of Line 115 because of "overwhelming demand" for service to the clinic, which runs for eight days.

The Remote Area Medical Foundation is a trailer-equipped service that has staged health clinics in rural parts of the United States, Mexico and South America. It brought its health camp to urban Los Angeles County on Tuesday to begin a stint that the group's officials described as its first foray into a major urban setting.


Organizers expected big crowds in a county with high unemployment and an estimated 22% of working-age adults lacking health insurance.

On Tuesday, the turnout was so large that hundreds had to be turned away.

"We're shorthanded," said the mobile clinic's founder, Stan Brock. About 100 dentists were needed, but only about 30 showed up Tuesday. Twenty eye doctors were required, but only about five were on hand, Brock said.

The mobile clinic, based in Knoxville, Tenn., has staged 576 medical clinics over the last 25 years. They have treated nearly 380,000 patients and provided care valued at $36.9 million, said Executive Director Karen Wilson. The group raises money through contributions.

Doctors, nurses and other medical workers who donated their time said most visitors' ailments were basic. But "many have chronic diseases -- high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma -- conditions we can't deal with in just one day," said Dr. Nancy Greep of Santa Monica. Some had problems, such as a recurring cancer, that demand long-term treatment.

-- Bob Pool and Kimi Yoshino

[Puckstop31]

No


???


"as if". As in she thinks it is wrong to assume that a doctors primary motive is money. Some? Sure. Most? I highly doubt it. Worse is the fact that this nonsense seems to eb an official government position... Who in the hell does he think we are?

During my 35 years so far, i've been in and out of the medical system quite a bit. Being a hockey player and an outdoorsman. I can honestly say I have never felt as if they were rushing me through anything in the name of money. WERE they? Maybe. But if they were, so what? I got the care I needed and they made the money they earned.


Now, of course something needs to change. The article you shared as case in point. But my God.... Have you read what they want to do? Why not bring the hammer down on insurance companies? Why not REQUIRE employers to provide some sort of coverage to employees? Why not REQUIRE insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions? Why does government always think they are the answer?

The government either knows and does not care... Or, as I suspect, so bloody arrogant and out of touch as to REALLY think that the massive uproar over this issue is "fake" or "astro turfed". Made worse by, rather than trying to convince us of their plan's merits, they try to sidestep and shut it down.

[Medusa]

The government ...so bloody arrogant and out of touch as to REALLY think that the massive uproar over this issue is "fake" or "astro turfed".

This would be my guess as is demonstrated by Lee on her cell phone, totally ignoring the constituent's question. Rather than apologize when called out for it and told that she was behaving rudely, she said "I am NOT rude!" Well, they can all keep up their insults and name-calling, their dismissiveness and their rudeness and condescension but come election time when they extend their oily hands and smile their Cheshire cat grins, we'll remember how people were treated and it will be reflected in the voting booths.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Indignation over the conduct of some politicians at town hall meetings would ring more true if behavior such as this Rude? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc) at a town hall meeting about healthcare elicited something more than deafening silence from those same people!

Goose/gander anyone?

[cassiesmom]

from the article Edwina's SEcretary posted: "More than 2,000 sought services on the first day of the medical clinic -- and hundreds were turned away. People were lined up Tuesday night, hoping to get in. The MTA announced it was extending service of Line 115 because of "overwhelming demand" for service to the clinic, which runs for eight days.

The Remote Area Medical Foundation is a trailer-equipped service that has staged health clinics in rural parts of the United States, Mexico and South America. It brought its health camp to urban Los Angeles County on Tuesday to begin a stint that the group's officials described as its first foray into a major urban setting."

I hope to go on a work trip with Remote Area Medical. I didn't know they were starting up inner city services. In addition to doctors they also use nurses. You can go to parts of Kentucky, Tennessee or Virginia. It makes me really sad that in America, in 2009, there are so many people who need care that they're being turned away.

[Puckstop31]

Indignation over the conduct of some politicians at town hall meetings would ring more true if behavior such as this Rude? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc) at a town hall meeting about healthcare elicited something more than deafening silence from those same people!

Goose/gander anyone?

Like I say all the time... Every group has morons. But they are a very small % of most groups. Of course, the media would have us believe otherwise.

"Indignation over the conduct of some politicians at town hall meetings..." You say, until the next time we have a conservative in office. THEN such idinignation will be just, eh?


<sigh>

[Medusa]

I saw Lee on TV last night in an interview w/Greta Van Susteren and she kept talking over Greta, who was as polite as possible under the circumstances. She told Lee that this is why people are upset w/her, that she doesn't listen so Lee said "Go ahead. I'm listening. I'm listening. I'm listening. I'm listening. Go ahead. I'm listening" and on and on. Really? If you're talking, you're not listening. I had to finally mute the TV for a few seconds until I could see that she stopped talking and started listening. She said that she wants the woman who was asking her question while Lee was on her cell phone to come to another town hall meeting so that she can apologize. So what prevented her from apologizing to the woman that night? Even last night on Greta's show her apology was "Sorry!" I'm all for forgiveness but clearly Lee's apology is insincere. She wants the woman to inconvenience herself and go to yet another town hall meeting to ask the question that was ignored the first time? It should've been over and done.

[Edwina's Secretary]

It makes me really sad that in America, in 2009, there are so many people who need care that they're being turned away.

Isn't it so sad, CM? "As you are to the least of my people, so shall you be unto me" apparently is not part of the credo of many in this country.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I saw Lee on TV last night in an interview w/Greta Van Susteren and she kept talking over Greta, who was as polite as possible under the circumstances. She told Lee that this is why people are upset w/her, that she doesn't listen so Lee said "Go ahead. I'm listening. I'm listening. I'm listening. I'm listening. Go ahead. I'm listening" and on and on. Really? If you're talking, you're not listening. I had to finally mute the TV for a few seconds until I could see that she stopped talking and started listening. She said that she wants the woman who was asking her question while Lee was on her cell phone to come to another town hall meeting so that she can apologize. So what prevented her from apologizing to the woman that night? Even last night on Greta's show her apology was "Sorry!" I'm all for forgiveness but clearly Lee's apology is insincere. She wants the woman to inconvenience herself and go to yet another town hall meeting to ask the question that was ignored the first time? It should've been over and done.



Like I say all the time... Every group has morons. But they are a very small % of most groups. Of course, the media would have us believe otherwise.

Yup. It fits here too!

[RICHARD]

Precious.

Oh, the people are being rude to their elected officials!

Hehehehehe.

Our 'reps' have been rude to us by constantly following the dollar as opposed to following the (blue) collar.

I like that people are voicing their anger.
I like that they are calling out the pompous jerks some of us elected to office.
I am glad that they are getting the same kind of reaction that I get when I say/do something stupid.
I am glad that these reps are 'offended' by the reaction at the THM.
I am glad that there is a call to get these people OUT of office the next time
we have elections.

Today I heard something that I thought I'd never hear about HIC/HCR-
Tort reform.

This is wonderful!
Maybe people are becoming more interested/schooled/informed about the reasons for the high cost of medical care?

Again, WONDERFUL!

--------------------------------

I am supposed to feel sorry for some AH that doesn't have time to read a 1k page bill that impacts OUR lives?

I am supposed to feel sorry for some AH that shows up in my town to tell me how 'wonderful' this reform bill will be for me-and I should take my blind faith and let them run with it?

Oh my lord, these people are rude at these meetings?!?!?!?!

It was quite all right when our last president was in office, but now it's boorish and rude?

Groucho Marx said it best, "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."

Hmmmmm.....I guess I'll have to cash in my political affiliation. But then again, What kind of food to the serve at a 'communist party'? I never have had caviar, but I am ready!


-----------------------------


Janice Dean, the weather machine, on FOX news has predicted a hurricane will make it to the Gulf of Mexico next week-should it come ashore here in the U.S. let us hope that FEMA and the prez have their stuff together.:eek:

I mean, gosh, I'd hate to have some pop/rock/actor have to claim that the president don't like 'white' people.:eek:;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Precious.

Oh, the people are being rude to their elected officials!


No RICHARD. MORONS are being rude to their fellow citizens who might, just might want to ask some intelligent questions and hear the reply.

The last administration. Surely you jest? The last administration had "First Amendment Zones" where protestors were corralled so the president would not have to see or hear them.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Puckstop31]

Isn't it so sad, CM? "As you are to the least of my people, so shall you be unto me" apparently is not part of the credo of many in this country.

You keep saying this... I can only assume by doing so you think that I and people like me don't care about these people? Or that the only way to help them is YOUR way...

There are so many ways for the less than fortunate to get help. I've spoken here before about many non-governmental organizations that do more, with half the budget of government agencies... Another local one, Water Street Rescue Mission. They feed, clothe, house and educate a great many homeless people. Yet, they are rarely fully utilized. Why? Because all they ask in return for using their facility and services is attendance at a HALF HOUR, non-denominational worship service, once a week.

Just because some of us don't want to do it YOUR way, does not make us uncaring or uncompassionate.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I can only assume...

There you go again! Assuming... It is not a good practice.

[Puckstop31]

There you go again! Assuming... It is not a good practice.

Then set me straight. WHY do you keep using that quote? What else could it mean?

Or are ya just gonna go "Media Matters" on me here? Pick something out of context and build your whole rebuttal around it?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have never used that quote on PetTalk before. If you have something on your conscious - please do not put it off on me.

I do not make assumptions about the "hidden meaning" of your posts. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

[Medusa]

I also find it interesting that at the town hall meeting w/Lee, the audience was relatively quiet and respectful while the woman was asking her question. Lee chose to ignore her. Perhaps people feel that they need to shout to be heard. I'm not condoning it but I do understand it.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Talking about birth certificates and waving yours around in a baggie does not seem to me to be...well... constructive! The woman in the clip was called upon by the speaker. It was after that she became... it appears crazed.

[Puckstop31]

I have never used that quote on PetTalk before. If you have something on your conscious - please do not put it off on me.

I do not make assumptions about the "hidden meaning" of your posts. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

My conscience is clear, has been for a quite some time. Now I know what you are going to say, but I know that you have said that before, more than once. Funny I can't find it now. Oh well....


Be that as it may... Perhaps you might answer my query? If you did not say..


"As you are to the least of my people, so shall you be unto me" apparently is not part of the credo of many in this country.

...to imply people like me (those who oppose THIS PARTICULAR HCR bill) don't care about those less fortunate.... What did you mean? You have said that my assumption was wrong. So I am going to do what you ask and give you the courtesy of not assuming what I think it means. So can you please clarify what you meant by that?

[Medusa]

I daresay that it's because I care about others that I don't like this particular HCR bill or, as it's now apparently called, the insurance reform bill. I need not agree w/the bill or w/any one person in particular nor am I required to take someone's litmus test in order to be deemed compassionate.

[Puckstop31]

ANOTHER example of Barack Obama, being just another politician.


From the... Huffington Post of all places...


A memo obtained by the Huffington Post confirms that the White House and the pharmaceutical lobby secretly agreed to precisely the sort of wide-ranging deal that both parties have been denying over the past week.

The memo, which according to a knowledgeable health care lobbyist was prepared by a person directly involved in the negotiations, lists exactly what the White House gave up, and what it got in return.

It says the White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government's leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada -- and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html

[lizbud]

ANOTHER example of Barack Obama, being just another politician.


From the... Huffington Post of all places...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html


This was posted on ResistNet too, but that doesn't mean it's true.

[Edwina's Secretary]

My conscience is clear, has been for a quite some time. Now I know what you are going to say, but I know that you have said that before, more than once. Funny I can't find it now. Oh well....


Be that as it may... Perhaps you might answer my query? If you did not say..



...to imply people like me (those who oppose THIS PARTICULAR HCR bill) don't care about those less fortunate.... What did you mean? You have said that my assumption was wrong. So I am going to do what you ask and give you the courtesy of not assuming what I think it means. So can you please clarify what you meant by that?

There you go again -- telling me what I have written. You can't find it because...I never wrote it before. Are you calling me a liar? In any event it is a bibical quote - not usually considered offensive or needing clarification.

And you are reading too much into what I said. Here is what I wrote...


Isn't it so sad, CM? "As you are to the least of my people, so shall you be unto me" apparently is not part of the credo of many in this country.

Where does that say anything about "people like you" an offensive phrase I would not use anyway? Where does it say anything about "you people" who oppose universal healthcare?

If you think it is about you...that is not my problem.

It means exactly what it says.

[Puckstop31]

There you go again -- telling me what I have written. You can't find it because...I never wrote it before. Are you calling me a liar? In any event it is a bibical quote - not usually considered offensive or needing clarification.

And you are reading too much into what I said. Here is what I wrote...



Where does that say anything about "people like you" an offensive phrase I would not use anyway? Where does it say anything about "you people" who oppose universal healthcare?

If you think it is about you...that is not my problem.

It means exactly what it says.


If you do not intend to offend people ES, its a little late for that. LOL

But I digress....

Thanks for the typical non-answer. If it "means what it says", then I guess I am right. Cool.

[Puckstop31]

This was posted on ResistNet too, but that doesn't mean it's true.


Riiiiiiggggggggggghhhhhhhhhtttttttttt.....


THIS time the "HuffPo" is wrong? :rolleyes:

Do you realize.... Ehhh, never mind.

[Edwina's Secretary]

If you do not intend to offend people ES, its a little late for that. LOL

But I digress....

Thanks for the typical non-answer. If it "means what it says", then I guess I am right. Cool.

Offend people...well that is certainly the pot calling the kettle black!:D:D:D

I am really sorry you cannot understand a simple sentence....


Isn't it so sad, CM? "As you are to the least of my people, so shall you be unto me" apparently is not part of the credo of many in this country.

Oh wait. It is two sentences. Is that what is causing you a problem?:D:D

Let me make this clear. I don't take orders. I made a statement. You decide it is about you. For no discernible reason. Everything is not about you. And expect me to clarify my statement.

Right. Get a dictionary if you must, but stop expecting me to help you understand such a simple statement. Geez

[lizbud]

Sara, now you've got the poor boy stuttering.:) Backpedaling is very
difficult for the slow witted.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Really! I make a statement. He "edits" it to be about him (isn't everything:rolleyes:) and "assumes" it to say something I didn't and then demands I "defend" my statement.

Here is something I have stated before. What arrogance. What hubris.

[Medusa]

Not a lot of traffic on the high road today.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Not a lot of traffic on the high road today.

Isn't that the truth! <<head shake>>

[Puckstop31]

You two.... LOL


Who do you think you are fooling with this bullcrap?


I've talked to some sorry people before.... But, you have taken it to a new level. Congrats!


Liz... Who was back tracking again? There was only one person in this thread who refused to answer a simple question. Only one who resorted to (as usual) denegrating the person who brought the question. Just like the President....


As plastic as a GI JOE toy...

[Puckstop31]

Let me make this clear. I don't take orders. I made a statement. You decide it is about you. For no discernible reason. Everything is not about you. And expect me to clarify my statement.

Right. Get a dictionary if you must, but stop expecting me to help you understand such a simple statement. Geez


Now to you, my dear....


Like I said in my last post... Your lack of a clarification seems to justify my translation of the sentence in the context used. And thus, you, as usual, are denegrating any person who does not "think" like you do.


I say again.... Who do you think you are fooling with your bullcrap?

[blue]

Who do you think you are fooling with your bullcrap?

She doesnt see it as BS, she actually believes it. She isnt trying to fool anybody. Dick Morris spelled out this type of thinking in "Bias".

[Medusa]

Not a lot of traffic on the high road today.

In all lanes.

[RICHARD]

In all lanes.

I thought the 'cash for clunkers' program was working?:confused:;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Like I said in my last post... Your lack of a clarification seems to justify my translation of the sentence in the context used. And thus, you, as usual, are denegrating any person who does not "think" like you do.


I say again.... Who do you think you are fooling with your bullcrap?

Poor, poor Puckstop...the world really does not revolve around you and what you want.

I do not give a rat's behind what you think of me...you just are not that important!

I'll make you a deal...stop putting words in my mouth to try and stem your guilt and I will put you back on ignore.

[Edwina's Secretary]

In all lanes.

Exactly!

[Cinder & Smoke]

I'll make you a deal...
stop putting words in my mouth to try and stem your guilt and
I will put you back on ignore.

:cool:

Now THERE's a new wrinkle ...

Earn Your Way into being put on ignore. :p

Begs the question: What's the next plateau?

:D

[Puckstop31]

I will put you back on ignore.

Atta girl! Can't answer the question honestly, dodge a bit then put me "back" on ignore. With the last barely concealed personal insult before.

You are a wonderful human being. :D

[Grace]

Not a lot of traffic on the high road today.


In all lanes.

And in both directions.

[RICHARD]

:cool:

Now THERE's a new wrinkle ...

Earn Your Way into being put on ignore. :p

Begs the question: What's the next plateau?

:D

Oh, We had a talk show here in El Lay and when the callers into the program were done, they would ask the host if they could commit "caller suicide" - hang up on themselves!;), I'd laugh every time I heard someone do it....

I guess you could commit 'poster suicide' and turn off the computer?

:confused::o

[Edwina's Secretary]

I asked you nicely Puck.

I have no choice but to assume your posts imply you have deep shame and guilt.

That is my translation of your words.

I hope you are able to find some relief from the pain your guilt causes you...other than lashing out at other people.

[Edwina's Secretary]

:cool:

Now THERE's a new wrinkle ...

Earn Your Way into being put on ignore. :p

Begs the question: What's the next plateau?

:D

One can only hope....

[Puckstop31]

I asked you nicely Puck.

I have no choice but to assume your posts imply you have deep shame and guilt.

That is my translation of your words.

I hope you are able to find some relief from the pain your guilt causes you...other than lashing out at other people.

Did you not get on my case for assuming?

But I digress, again.


Again, guilt has nothing to do with this. See, I know you are clever enough to never really answer a straight question. You are a master at deception and double speak. All you EVER do is try to turn a person's words against them. A little straight up honesty from you would be refreshing. Or are you ashamed of how you feel? What other REAL reason would there be for you to so frequently dodge easy to answer questions?

So, i'll ask again. This time i'll phrase it for you so it is a simple yes or no answer....

When you said...


Isn't it so sad, CM? "As you are to the least of my people, so shall you be unto me" apparently is not part of the credo of many in this country.

...were you implying that anybody who is NOT in support of THE CURRENT HCR bill(s) uncompassionate to the issues at hand?

Yes or No?

[lizbud]

Again, guilt has nothing to do with this. See, I know you are clever enough to never really answer a straight question. You are a master at deception and double speak. All you EVER do is try to turn a person's words against them.





Like a little chesse with that whine?

[Edwina's Secretary]

And in both directions.

I completely agree with you two. There was not a single post on this thread yesterday that was on the high road!

[Medusa]

Or today either.

[Grace]

Trying to get this thread back on track.

Kenneth Bacon died today. He was 64, a former Wall Street Journal reporter and Pentagon spokesman during the Clinton presidency. He wrote an essay for the Washington Post back in July.

A Cancer Patient's Perspective (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR2009072002386.html)

His obituary is here. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/15/AR2009081501336.html?hpid=moreheadlines)

Looking at the difficulty he had getting treatments approved, I think we are all doomed without insurance reform.

[blue]

From this patient's perspective, the current reform effort must do five things:

(1)-- Emphasize prevention, early detection and early intervention.

(2)-- Maximize online efficiencies to reduce paperwork and streamline data.

(3)-- Protect the patient-doctor relationship.

(4)-- Address the insurance/quality-of-care gap.

(5)-- Increase funding for medical research.

I believe only #2 is addressed in the current HCR bill.

[RICHARD]

Looking at the difficulty he had getting treatments approved, I think we are all doomed without insurance reform.

We are all doomed!

Look,

How many people die each year from-
Carbon Mono poisoning?
Tire blowouts on the freeway?
Dropping a hair dryer into the bath?
Lightning?
Miley Cyrus' videos?
Doing stunts at an amusement park?

The emphasis is on NUMBER 1 - early prevention and screening!


Half of us could give a flying shiat about inflating tires, changing motor oil, changing the batteries on a fire/CM detectors.......

So what makes anyone think about taking a mammogram, blood, pap, prostate or ? test.

LOL, the ONLY way to make it work is to make HC screening MANDATORY.

A few thousands dollars of tests could prevent HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars in treatment and surgeries....But, it will not happen until everyone is screened thoroughly.

sad, but true.


-------------


Why is the owner of GOOGLE so buddy buddy with the WH?

ANd why do they have people's email addys?

I just signed up for email newsletters for the NASA site..... NOw the guvmint and the revnewers know where I compute from?


Where are all the people who do not want to share their emails with Big Brother?

[Edwina's Secretary]

This assault rifle at presidential event (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32457652/ns/politics-white_house) makes me so very sad and so very sick and so very ashamed.

Are these men so desperate for attention or so small that they must take assault rifles with them??

Where are the people who were so concerned about Air Force One being flown over Manhattan...that was so frightening...and this isn't????

[lizbud]

This assault rifle at presidential event (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32457652/ns/politics-white_house) makes me so very sad and so very sick and so very ashamed.

Are these men so desperate for attention or so small that they must take assault rifles with them??

Where are the people who were so concerned about Air Force One being flown over Manhattan...that was so frightening...and this isn't????


Where are the President's security people? It might be legal by a State's
statute, but they shouldn't permit this around any President. There are two
many wingnuts that might think they are right to kill a public official.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Where are the President's security people? It might be legal by a State's
statute, but they shouldn't permit this around any President. There are two
many wingnuts that might think they are right to kill a public official.

Gosh Liz...can't interfer with their Second Amendment Rights! Uzzis in our schools, churches, shopping malls, movie theaters, hospitals, workplaces, and town hall meetings...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Grace]

Where are the President's security people? It might be legal by a State's
statute, but they shouldn't permit this around any President. There are two
many wingnuts that might think they are right to kill a public official.

They were outside - the President was inside - none of them got anywhere near him. And if they had wanted to go inside, they would have relinquished the weapons.

In Arizona, one can legally carry just as they were doing. As was stated in the CNN article -

The individuals would never have gotten in close proximity to the president, regardless of any state laws on openly carrying weapons, he said. A venue is considered a federal site when the Secret Service is protecting the president and weapons are not allowed on a federal site, he added.

In both instances, the men carrying weapons were outside the venues where Obama was speaking.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And what was the point? To merely endanger the people who were there, but not the president? Does a weapon like that REALLY belong in a crowd of people?

I somehow expect if I walked around Columbine High School carrying a weapon like that - people would be appalled. Oh what I am I saying...maybe not.

[Grace]

Gosh Liz...can't interfer with their Second Amendment Rights! Uzzis in our schools, churches, shopping malls, movie theaters, hospitals, workplaces, and town hall meetings...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

In Arizona, you CANNOT carry in the following places -

1. Anywhere you can consume alcohol on the premises. If you can drink alcohol there, you cannot legally carry a firearm there.

2. School grounds (K-12, Colleges, Universities, etc.)

3. Private property (stores, malls, etc.) that post a sign stating that they do not permit firearms. Also, they can prohibit without a sign by informing you directly that they do not permit firearms on their property.

4. Federal Office Buildings (BIG no no)

5. Some State Government buildings including courthouses.

6. Post Offices

7. Nuclear or Hydroelectric Generating Stations

8. Polling places on election day

9. National Parks or Game Preserves

10. Correctional Facilities

11. Airports (inside the security cordon)

12. Indian reservations ( You need to check with the tribal police, it is about a 50/50 split who does and who doesn't.)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I believe they just amended that law...you can now take your Uzzi into a bar or any other establishment that serves liquor.

guns in bars (http://news.aol.com/article/arizona-guns-bars/551844)

[Grace]

And what was the point? To merely endanger the people who were there, but not the president? Does a weapon like that REALLY belong in a crowd of people?

I somehow expect if I walked around Columbine High School carrying a weapon like that - people would be appalled. Oh what I am I saying...maybe not.

I asked my husband that very question - what was the point? Personally, I thought it was pretty stupid, but legally they can do it.

Douglas did say that in some places it is legal to carry open, but the minute you remove the gun from the holster/carrier it become illegal, and off you go to jail.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I do not know the technicalities of taking a gun slung over your shoulder off to shift the weight or taking a gun off your shoulder to kill...and when that becomes illegal...nor do I particularly want to know.

I realize they were legally carrying those guns. There are many things that are legal.

And stupid and sick and reprehensible.

There is a thread about little girls in beauty pagents. Those are legal...but stupid, sick and reprehensible.

[RICHARD]

JUst because the guy was black he should not be able to carry?;)

LOLOLOLOL, if he was white it would be the second coming of Hitler.

----------------------

No Shoes
No Shirt
No Shotguns!!!


I thought it was great that this citizen went out with a gun on his back.

I can assure you that both men were treated with respect for the day! Since the prez has HCR, nukes in the hands of the Pakis and what to do with Afghanistan on his mind, he should not be bothered.

He is the prez, you know?

[Edwina's Secretary]

JUst because the guy was black he should not be able to carry?;)

LOLOLOLOL, if he was white it would be the second coming of Hitler.



I do not know the race of any of the men who carried guns.

Is that important to you?

[lizbud]

They were outside - the President was inside - none of them got anywhere near him. And if they had wanted to go inside, they would have relinquished the weapons.

In Arizona, one can legally carry just as they were doing. As was stated in the CNN article -


I remember President Kennedy being killed in public by a nut with a rifle.:(
There seems to be no way to limit the sale of guns to stable people.

[RICHARD]

I'm squealing like a teen!


I just heard that Carly Fiorina is going to run against that twit, Bobwa Boxer!


Carly for Cah lee fuh Nee Ah?


DONE!:D:D:D:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

I'm squealing like a teen!


I just heard that Carly Fiorina is going to run against that twit, Bobwa Boxer!


Carly for Cah lee fuh Nee Ah?


DONE!:D:D:D:D

Oh please. You and the two other people who will vote for her....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Grace]

I remember President Kennedy being killed in public by a nut with a rifle.:(
There seems to be no way to limit the sale of guns to stable people.

I just finished a book about the Secret Service. Back in 1963 Kennedy was warned, repeatedly, not to go to Dallas. By Senator Fulbright, by Adlai Stevenson, and others. Back then only 2 Secret Service agents had gone to Dallas to check things out. Not one building on the route was checked. These days, whenever there is a motorcade, buildings along the route are checked. Empty offices are sealed shut. Presidential cars are bullet proof.

Today, Oswald would not have been able to reach that window. Kennedy would not have been in an open car.

[blue]

This assault rifle at presidential event (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32457652/ns/politics-white_house) makes me so very sad and so very sick and so very ashamed.

Are these men so desperate for attention or so small that they must take assault rifles with them??

Where are the people who were so concerned about Air Force One being flown over Manhattan...that was so frightening...and this isn't????

In modern times, I have never heard of an American being saddened, sickened, or ashamed of another American exercising thier Rights before. This isnt any of the horrible things our country did or condoned of in the past, these are decent law abiding citizens.

They arent desperate for attention, they are tired of their elected officials riding roughshod over their Rights. Way to insult law abiding Americans.

These men were polite, patient, and understand with the pro Obama supporters that were bussed in for the rally.

Arizona wasnt subjected to a horrifying event the way New York City was, way to belittle an entire city.

P.S. Thats a carbine, not an assault rifle.


Where are the President's security people? It might be legal by a State's
statute, but they shouldn't permit this around any President. There are two
many wingnuts that might think they are right to kill a public official.

According to U.S. Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan when asked if the people carrying firearms posed a threat to the POTUS,


Of course not.

Source (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/obama.protest.rifle/index.html).


Gosh Liz...can't interfer with their Second Amendment Rights! Uzzis in our schools, churches, shopping malls, movie theaters, hospitals, workplaces, and town hall meetings...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cant have people legally carrying firearms in public, that might endanger criminals.

Its Uzi BTW.


They were outside - the President was inside - none of them got anywhere near him. And if they had wanted to go inside, they would have relinquished the weapons.

In Arizona, one can legally carry just as they were doing. As was stated in the CNN article -

The POTUS was never in any danger, so lets criminalize law abiding citizens is what they are saying. Lets not let the law get in the way of irrational thinking Grace.:D


And what was the point? To merely endanger the people who were there, but not the president? Does a weapon like that REALLY belong in a crowd of people?

I somehow expect if I walked around Columbine High School carrying a weapon like that - people would be appalled. Oh what I am I saying...maybe not.

Who exactly was endangered? The people who fear inanimate objects? How many O supporters in that crowd were carrying a knife or know martial arts? Arent they considerred a risk to the public at large, and if not why not?

Alot less kids might have died at Columbine if somebody did have an AR 15 carbine on hand, not you obviously.


I believe they just amended that law...you can now take your Uzzi into a bar or any other establishment that serves liquor.

guns in bars (http://news.aol.com/article/arizona-guns-bars/551844)

From the article ES posted.


The measure would ban drinking while packing and allow restaurants to deny entry to gun-toting citizens by posting a sign next to their liquor license.

I can see how that would put alot of people at risk. :rolleyes:


I do not know the technicalities of taking a gun slung over your shoulder off to shift the weight or taking a gun off your shoulder to kill...and when that becomes illegal...nor do I particularly want to know.

Ignorance must be bliss.


I realize they were legally carrying those guns. There are many things that are legal.

And stupid and sick and reprehensible.

There is a thread about little girls in beauty pagents. Those are legal...but stupid, sick and reprehensible.

Stupid and sick and reprehensible for demonstrating American Rights, another first Ive seen. Stupid and sick and reprehensible for being law abiding citizens.


JUst because the guy was black he should not be able to carry?;)

LOLOLOLOL, if he was white it would be the second coming of Hitler.

Exactly!! IT would be a much bigger story if it had been a white guy with the AR 15.


I do not know the race of any of the men who carried guns.

Is that important to you?

I think this is the first time Ive seen where ES has colorblind glasses on.

This guy looks really dangerous.:rolleyes:

http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/albums/857054/Patriot.jpg

http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/albums/857054/Patriot2.jpg

http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/albums/857054/Patriot3.jpg

Youtube vid. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63GiXzpfGhA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgunsnet%2Enet%2Fforums%2Fshowthr ead%2Ephp%3Ft%3D361329%26page%3D2%26pp%3D30&feature=player_embedded)


I remember President Kennedy being killed in public by a nut with a rifle.:(
There seems to be no way to limit the sale of guns to stable people.


I just finished a book about the Secret Service. Back in 1963 Kennedy was warned, repeatedly, not to go to Dallas. By Senator Fulbright, by Adlai Stevenson, and others. Back then only 2 Secret Service agents had gone to Dallas to check things out. Not one building on the route was checked. These days, whenever there is a motorcade, buildings along the route are checked. Empty offices are sealed shut. Presidential cars are bullet proof.

Today, Oswald would not have been able to reach that window. Kennedy would not have been in an open car.

Liz, I dont think I could have said it better then Grace. There are now laws about who can legally own a firearm. Today LHO would not be able to own a firearm legally, but those laws only apply to Law Abiding Citizens.

[Edwina's Secretary]

These days, whenever there is a motorcade, buildings along the route are checked. Empty offices are sealed shut. Presidential cars are bullet proof.

Today, Oswald would not have been able to reach that window. Kennedy would not have been in an open car.

Sad but true. With all these nutcases we have today who have to make up for all their feelings of inadequacy with guns.... so very sad.

[blue]

Hey Grace how does Douglas feel about being characterised of having an inadequacy for owning firearms?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Just the nutcases blue...just the nutcases...you know...people who are more interested in the color of people's skin than the content of their...guns?

[blue]

Just the nutcases blue...just the nutcases...

So you caved and took me off ignore. :D

OK Grace, how does Douglas feel about being characterised as small or desperate for attention, just for being a law abiding citizen? How about being characterised as a wingnut thinking its OK to kill a public official, just for being a law abiding citizen? Or characterised as endangering irrational people, just for being a law abiding citizen? Lastly how does he feel about being called a nutcase, just for owning fireams?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Can't stand up for yourself...eh.. blue. Have to hide behind other people.

Sad....but not surprising.:D:D

Perhaps you can call in reinforcements???? Or "man up"...

So...only Law Abiding Citizen owns guns these days...

Yeah...right.

The guy who shot all the women at the gym...was he a "Law Abiding Citizen"...

Please.

Of course there are "Law Abiding Citizens" who own guns.

There are also..."NutCases" who own guns.

The problem is...how do you tell the difference?

Some people seem to think it has something to do with race???

[blue]

Can't stand up for yourself...eh.. blue. Have to hide behind other people.

Sad....but not surprising.:D:D

Where havent I stood up for myself?


Perhaps you can call in reinforcements???? Or "man up"...

So...only Law Abiding Citizen owns guns these days...

Yeah...right.

Legally own firearms, yes only law abiding citizens legally own firearms. Your problem with legal gun owners is what exactly?

Do you allways need to be insulting to make your points?


The guy who shot all the women at the gym...was he a "Law Abiding Citizen"...

Please.

You do know what a law abiding citizen is dont you? Im begining to wonder.

Please indeed.


Of course there are "Law Abiding Citizens" who own guns.

There are also..."NutCases" who own guns.

The problem is...how do you tell the difference?

THe law abiding ones are the ones obeying the laws, it isnt that hard to determine the difference.


Some people seem to think it has something to do with race???

The MSM and you are the ones obsessed with race.

ETA: It was you who couldnt "woman up" by putting me on ignore. You get bent when people assume about your posts yet you are free to do so about other peoples posts. You whine when people call you on your posts, saying they are assuming. Then you not only assume but twist what others post to insult them.

[Grace]

To answer blue's questions - my husband could care less what people think of him.

He's a firm supporter of, and believer in, the Second Amendment.

[RICHARD]

Is it time to break out the smoothies?

I spit my beer all over my shorts reading some of the stuff.

I found the mention of Columbine, along with guns to be particularly funny and distasteful.

-------------

Blue,
Shame on you, the Baja 100 is a Mexican Race.:D

Thanks for posting the pics.

Now, I know I should NOT say this?

I was thinking that it was going to be Bubba Joe - dressed like I dress-
In surplus khaki and a boonie hat, carrying an SKS with bandoleers crossing his chest.


I laughed, laughed and laughed and laughed some more.......I guess BO won't invite this CITIZEN for beer anytime soon?



No one was hurt, wounded or maimed. People had guns out in the open and no one got shot..Shiat, here in Lost Angeles the LAPD would have started a running gun battle with the people TALKING to the people that were packing!

--------------------
The last time I heard that someone was ashamed/embarrassed/hurt about 'her country' (and had her proper britches crapped) was a woman who was traumatized until recently, Then she got proud and status. I think she may be a politician's wife.:rolleyes:

Hey, she came from Chi Town.

[blue]

He's a firm supporter of, and believer in, the Second Amendment.

As are the people described in this thread as being desperate, small, wingnuts, stupid and sick and reprehensible.

I care because the MSM locks on to these decriptions.

[blue]

Is it time to break out the smoothies?

I spit my beer all over my shorts reading some of the stuff.

I found the mention of Columbine, along with guns to be particularly funny and distasteful.

THats alot of smoothies.


Blue,
Shame on you, the Baja 100 is a Mexican Race.:D

Baja 1000, someday I hope to watch it live and in person. Somehow I doubt ES is aware of this historic race.


Thanks for posting the pics.

Somebody had to, I hope you watched the video of him as well. According to CNN there was another person toting a an AR 15 carbine who was an O supporter yet he somehow didnt make the news.


Now, I know I should NOT say this?

I was thinking that it was going to be Bubba Joe - dressed like I dress-
In surplus khaki and a boonie hat, carrying an SKS with bandoleers crossing his chest.


I laughed, laughed and laughed and laughed some more.......I guess BO won't invite this CITIZEN for beer anytime soon?

Even the Democraticunderground thought it was a white guy and was throwing him to the wolves as being a racist until it was pointed out that the dude was black.

BO invite a pro Second Amendment person for a beer, that is Funnay!!!


No one was hurt, wounded or maimed. People had guns out in the open and no one got shot..Shiat, here in Lost Angeles the LAPD would have started a running gun battle with the people TALKING to the people that were packing!

Of course no one was hurt. These are law abiding Americans deffended by United States Secret Service and Arizona Police Officers against Acorn memebers and Obama supporters.


The last time I heard that someone was ashamed/embarrassed/hurt about 'her country' (and had her proper britches crapped) was a woman who was traumatized until recently, Then she got proud and status. I think she may be a politician's wife.:rolleyes:

Hey, she came from Chi Town.

http://www.geocities.com/mpetrie98/ThatsRacist2.gif

[RICHARD]

http://www.geocities.com/mpetrie98/ThatsRacist2.gif

Are you going to pay for the beer I keep spitting up!?!?!?!?;)

[blue]

Are you going to pay for the beer I keep spitting up!?!?!?!?;)

Obama will replace it for you.

[RICHARD]

Obama will replace it for you.

Ain't drinking no Bud Light....I am going whole hog on the beer.

Coors!:eek:;)

[blue]

Ain't drinking no Bud Light....I am going whole hog on the beer.

Coors!:eek:;)

This is the new Peoples Paradise! THat means youll take what our benevolent leader gives you and youll like it!

Now that the only affordable cars are being crushed. Soon the poor not only wont be able to buy cars, they wont be able to afford beer. Look for the .gov take over of American breweries.

Wait, are there any large American breweries left?

[RICHARD]

This is the new Peoples Paradise! THat means youll take what our benevolent leader gives you and youll like it!

Now that the only affordable cars are being crushed. Soon the poor not only wont be able to buy cars, they wont be able to afford beer. Look for the .gov take over of American breweries.

Wait, are there any large American breweries left?

Dude,

I can see someone trading a Buick Grand National to get 4.5k (that you and I anted up for) - the car, restored, is worth twice that much and the idiot gov't. OKed them being scrapped.:rolleyes:

UGH.............

The only American breweries are the micro jobs. Too expensive and hard to find......:(:mad:

[Edwina's Secretary]

To answer blue's questions - my husband could care less what people think of him.

He's a firm supporter of, and believer in, the Second Amendment.

My issue is not with whether or not what these guys did was legal. It is whether or not it was stupid.

It is legal for the Philadelphia Eagles to hire Michael Vick.

But many think it is reprehensible ...thread (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=154908)

It is legal to tart up your daughter and parade her around...

But many think it is sick...thread (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=150403)

It is legal to own guns and assault rifles...

But to take those guns to a crowded public event when the president is speaking...

Is stupid...and sick and reprehensible.

[Miss Z]

Having followed the last few pages of this thread intently, may I take this chance to applaud Edwina's Secretary. I think you are spot on in what you have to say.

Having seen those pictures of the man with the rifle, or whatever it was, slung over his back, to me that is shocking and not normal. How civilisation can exist when people with giant weapons slung publically and casually over the shoulder are free to walk about in the streets, I don't know. They must pass little kids in the street, what do they think? That's it's alright to walk out of the house looking like you're going into battle?

It was mentioned somewhere that it's daft to fear an inanimate object. Honestly, I will fear a gun unless it's in the hands of a trained professional, i.e. the police. It is not inanimate when it's in the hands of someone you cannot trust.

It may be legal to own a gun in those states and walk around with it like an accessory. But just how far is a photograph like that from the current scenes in Afghanistan?

[RICHARD]

Having seen those pictures of the man with the rifle, or whatever it was, slung over his back, to me that is shocking and not normal.It may be legal to own a gun in those states and walk around with it like an accessory. But just how far is a photograph like that from the current scenes in Afghanistan?

Dude,
Like, what is the gun law in England?

I seem to remember that most of the Bobbies don't pack heat, so a picture of a citizen packing must really chill the soul?

The 'farness' of the pic and what goes on in Afghanistan is a stretch.

People in AFG are usually riding around in Toyota P/U, pointing THEIR guns at folks, threatening to cut off the thumbs of people who vote.

We look like a bunch of gun toting morons because all the people who are afraid of guns stretch the truth and panic when they see people packing heat.

The 'danger' of guns is the idiots who can't be trusted to handle-no, I take that back-it's the idiots who see a picture of a guy with a gun and begin to panic.

They don't trust themselves to handle a firearm, so the project their ineptness, mistrust and inability to even touch a gun, onto everyone they see who openly carries a firearm.

Most of the time it's an idiot with grudge, an idiot with no brains or stupid kids playing with guns that get killed.:eek:

A couple of weeks ago I saw a story where cops shot a guy to death - shot some 40 times - and officials were trying to figure out if the shooting was justified.

Plus you read about the SWAT cops that killed a baby carried in the arms os some idiot that was holed up in a business?

Most of the time we have to worry about the cops -trained professionals-who shoot a guy 40 times and if they happen to shoot and kill a bystander, oh well, too bad.

It's part of the job!

[Miss Z]

The gun laws, as far as I am aware, lists most cartridge weapons under Section 1 - illegal firearms. You can apply for a gun license if you want to shoot game on your own land, go target shooting, or are in a field that requires it, i.e an armed police officer or large animal veterinary surgeon.

You are not allowed to use such a fire-arm to attack or defend yourself, nor is it permitted outside of its designated area of use.

What I meant by the Afghanistan comment was more to do with principle than the technicalities of a terrorist regime.




The 'danger' of guns is the idiots who can't be trusted to handle-no, I take that back-it's the idiots who see a picture of a guy with a gun and begin to panic.

They don't trust themselves to handle a firearm, so the project their ineptness, mistrust and inability to even touch a gun, onto everyone they see who openly carries a firearm.


I don't consider myself an idiot for thinking that if I bumped into someone with a rifle on their back that I'd run a mile. No, I can't handle a firearm, but I also can't jump 10 feet in the air.

In my lifetime, I can recall many tragedies involving firearms from the US. I can't recall half as much that have occurred in the UK. People walking into public areas and opening fire at random would shake this nation to its core.




Most of the time we have to worry about the cops -trained professionals-who shoot a guy 40 times and if they happen to shoot and kill a bystander, oh well, too bad.

It's part of the job!

When Jean Charles de Menezes was shot on the London Underground in 2005, shortly after the London bombings, it certainly wasn't met with a reaction of 'oh well, it's part of the job!'. There have been endless enquiries and lawsuits and police apologies over the issue. But perhaps the difference is because the effect of guns is so much more abhorred over here, and, as you like to put it, we don't take kindly to 'packing heat'.

[RICHARD]

The gun laws, as far as I am aware, lists most cartridge weapons under Section 1 - illegal firearms. You can apply for a gun license if you want to shoot game on your own land, go target shooting, or are in a field that requires it, i.e an armed police officer or large animal veterinary surgeon.


What I meant by the Afghanistan comment was more to do with principle than the technicalities of a terrorist regime.

In my lifetime, I can recall many tragedies involving firearms from the US. I can't recall half as much that have occurred in the UK. People walking into public areas and opening fire at random would shake this nation to its core.



We are a nation of gun owners. THat will not change anytime soon.

We also have laws that say you can't attack or (sometimes) defend ourselves with our firearms.

We also have laws that prohibit carrying heat in certain places.

My complaint is about the people who think that the U.S. is nothing but a nation of goofy, lawless, gunpacking paranoid idiots-most of those people live here!

Principle vs. technicality?

The only technicality is the people in the back of the Toyota will think nothing of shooting you, and they will do it as a matter of principle.:confused:

I am sorry if you thought I was ragging on you. I was merely defending my country from the folks that live here and find it such a ghastly place to live in.:eek::rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

We are a nation of gun owners.


Wrong RICHARD. We are NOT a nation of gun owners. Where on earth do you come up with the stuff???

We are a nation DIVIDED on the issue of guns. Some people very strongly believe in gun ownership...some very strongly do not.

We are also a nation divided on the meaning of the words in the Constitution. Yes, yes...I know what you and your fellow travelers think it means.

But you do not speak for the entire nation...anymore than I do.

[lizbud]

Wrong RICHARD. We are NOT a nation of gun owners. Where on earth do you come up with the stuff???




Richard got carried away with all that soaring rhetoric.:)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I was merely defending my country from the folks that live here and find it such a ghastly place to live in.:eek::rolleyes:

Are you picking on those people who complain about the government all the time???:D:D

[Grace]

This puts a whole new light on those carrying guns in Phoenix. From the Arizona Republic -


by Scott Wong - Aug. 19, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

The protester carrying an AR-15 rifle outside President Barack Obama's speech in Phoenix on Monday staged the "publicity stunt" with the help of two local Libertarian groups that have worked with the man on Ron Paul's presidential campaign.

Before attending a pro-Obama health-care reform rally outside the Phoenix Convention Center, the man who identified himself as "Chris" met with members of RP4409 and Freedom's Phoenix. That's according to Freedom's Phoenix Publisher Ernest Hancock, who is credited with coining and designing the logo for the "Ron Paul r3VOLution."

In a YouTube video, Chris displays his semi-automatic rifle which he says "aids me in my resistance efforts."

"We will forcefully resist people imposing their will on us through the strength of the majority with a vote," Chris later tells an Obama supporter in the video. "Just because you sic the government on people doesn't make it morally OK to steal money from people. Taxation is theft."

Chris declined to reveal information about himself. Hancock said he is a Valley resident, an independent conservative and a John Birch Society member.

Chris, who also had a 9mm pistol, was one of a dozen demonstrators openly carrying firearms to the rally, a display that drew national media attention. Under Arizona law, openly carrying firearms in public is legal.

Hancock told CNN's Rick Sanchez on Tuesday that the gun display was planned well in advance. Hancock met with a Phoenix police officer last week, informing him that he and others in his group planned to bring firearms.

When Sanchez suggested many people would see it as a "publicity stunt," Hancock responded: "Absolutely."

Ernest Hancock was once associated with a group called the Viper Militia. None of whom I would want as neighbors.

[Puckstop31]

You are not allowed to use such a fire-arm to attack or defend yourself, nor is it permitted outside of its designated area of use.



This is key....

The American founding fathers believed (Federalist #87, amongst others) that a human being has an inherit right to defend him/herself and his/her family from those who would deny their right to life from others. I agree with them. I pray to God I never need to (again) exercise that right.

The US 2nd Amendment CONFIRMS a God given right. It does not grant one.

There are idiots in every group. Idiots should not define the entire group.

I pray to God that my firearms are only ever used to harvest game animals.

Your nation is different. Thats cool.

[Edwina's Secretary]

This puts a whole new light on those carrying guns in Phoenix. From the Arizona Republic -



Ernest Hancock was once associated with a group called the Viper Militia. None of whom I would want as neighbors.

Wow. truly frightening.

I need to get back to Chicago.....

[RICHARD]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/8/19/128952127983374222.jpg

People are worried about a black guy with a gun strapped on his back?

What about Grandma?

She's got her finger on the trigger of an RPG and doesn't look like she has anyone with her.....

"Come on grandma!, Let's go grab a Coke!"

"NO Imperialist Western Devils drink COKE!, Let me go!!!"

:eek:

[blue]

Dude,

I can see someone trading a Buick Grand National to get 4.5k (that you and I anted up for) - the car, restored, is worth twice that much and the idiot gov't. OKed them being scrapped.:rolleyes:

UGH.............

The only American breweries are the micro jobs. Too expensive and hard to find......:(:mad:

Between the scams and Big Brother, only 20% of the C4C money has made it to the dealerships. When I find that link again Ill post it.

Micro brew is plentyfull and decently priced here in AK.


My issue is not with whether or not what these guys did was legal. It is whether or not it was stupid.

It is legal for the Philadelphia Eagles to hire Michael Vick.

But many think it is reprehensible ...thread (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=154908)

It is legal to tart up your daughter and parade her around...

But many think it is sick...thread (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=150403)

It is legal to own guns and assault rifles...

But to take those guns to a crowded public event when the president is speaking...

Is stupid...and sick and reprehensible.

Now exercising your Rights and obeying the Law is stupid...as well as sick and reprehensible. Got it.:rolleyes:

Vick does not have a right to a job and the Eagles dont have a right to prevent Vick from working. Reprehensible or not, and I agree that it is, its not against any law I know of. The court of public opinion rules for Vick and the Eagles.

The day they make tarting up your daughter illegal and brings the charge of child endangerment/abuse cant come quick enough, untill that happens Ill just agree with that its reprehensible.

But to say exercising a Right and obeying the Law is stupid, that is reprehensible.


Having followed the last few pages of this thread intently, may I take this chance to applaud Edwina's Secretary. I think you are spot on in what you have to say.

Seeing how you are from England I can understand your agreement with ES. However this isnt England, our cultures reguarding firearms are very different. A government can controll its population easier if they are unarmed.


Having seen those pictures of the man with the rifle, or whatever it was, slung over his back, to me that is shocking and not normal. How civilisation can exist when people with giant weapons slung publically and casually over the shoulder are free to walk about in the streets, I don't know. They must pass little kids in the street, what do they think? That's it's alright to walk out of the house looking like you're going into battle?

Its very normal for the Swiss, but firearms in their culture are even more ingrained then in the USA. A person open carrying in Alaska wont get a second glance, the same person in California would be, at best arrested, and at worst shot for exercising their Right to do so.

A majority of, not all, of Alaskan kids are taught to respect firearms and firearm safety, and a majority, not all, of Californian kids are taught that firearms are evil and people that use them are evil. Those are generalizations, the exceptions only prove it as true.


It was mentioned somewhere that it's daft to fear an inanimate object. Honestly, I will fear a gun unless it's in the hands of a trained professional, i.e. the police. It is not inanimate when it's in the hands of someone you cannot trust.

Any object in the hands of somebody you cannot trust is a tool that can cause great harm to many people. The English dont even trust firearms to ordinary police officers if IRRC. It is insane to freak out when you see a firearm in a holster, or slung on someones back. If someone is brandishing any weapon, then it is OK to freak out.

I do have to admit having a semi auto AK 47 clone slung on my back in a high school was kinda wierd.


It may be legal to own a gun in those states and walk around with it like an accessory. But just how far is a photograph like that from the current scenes in Afghanistan?

The people with guns in Afghanistan, for the most part, arent trying to make a point to their government. They are making a point for whatever ruling tribe is in the area to the local population.


Dude,
Like, what is the gun law in England?

Stricter the CA.


I seem to remember that most of the Bobbies don't pack heat, so a picture of a citizen packing must really chill the soul?

The 'farness' of the pic and what goes on in Afghanistan is a stretch.

People in AFG are usually riding around in Toyota P/U, pointing THEIR guns at folks, threatening to cut off the thumbs of people who vote.

We look like a bunch of gun toting morons because all the people who are afraid of guns stretch the truth and panic when they see people packing heat.

The 'danger' of guns is the idiots who can't be trusted to handle-no, I take that back-it's the idiots who see a picture of a guy with a gun and begin to panic.

They don't trust themselves to handle a firearm, so the project their ineptness, mistrust and inability to even touch a gun, onto everyone they see who openly carries a firearm.

Most of the time it's an idiot with grudge, an idiot with no brains or stupid kids playing with guns that get killed.:eek:

A couple of weeks ago I saw a story where cops shot a guy to death - shot some 40 times - and officials were trying to figure out if the shooting was justified.

Plus you read about the SWAT cops that killed a baby carried in the arms os some idiot that was holed up in a business?

Most of the time we have to worry about the cops -trained professionals-who shoot a guy 40 times and if they happen to shoot and kill a bystander, oh well, too bad.

It's part of the job!

Fairly well summed up RICHARD.


The gun laws, as far as I am aware, lists most cartridge weapons under Section 1 - illegal firearms. You can apply for a gun license if you want to shoot game on your own land, go target shooting, or are in a field that requires it, i.e an armed police officer or large animal veterinary surgeon.

I dont need a license or a permit to own a firearm or to carry open or concealed.


You are not allowed to use such a fire-arm to attack or defend yourself, nor is it permitted outside of its designated area of use.

I would think it wont take to much to ban the carrying of knives or the licensing of martial arts training for self defense in the UK.


What I meant by the Afghanistan comment was more to do with principle than the technicalities of a terrorist regime.

Seeing how the English saw our Founding Fathers as a terrorist regime, I can see your point.


I don't consider myself an idiot for thinking that if I bumped into someone with a rifle on their back that I'd run a mile. No, I can't handle a firearm, but I also can't jump 10 feet in the air.

In England you probably would be an idiot if you didnt jump and run a mile. If you where in Arizona and bumped into someone with a firearm, Im sure you could laugh it off as a cultural diference.


In my lifetime, I can recall many tragedies involving firearms from the US. I can't recall half as much that have occurred in the UK. People walking into public areas and opening fire at random would shake this nation to its core.

The majority of the recent mass shootings in the USA took place in Gun Free Zones. Areas where the shooter/criminal is the only one with a firearm.


When Jean Charles de Menezes was shot on the London Underground in 2005, shortly after the London bombings, it certainly wasn't met with a reaction of 'oh well, it's part of the job!'. There have been endless enquiries and lawsuits and police apologies over the issue. But perhaps the difference is because the effect of guns is so much more abhorred over here, and, as you like to put it, we don't take kindly to 'packing heat'.

To Bobbies and the local government should have been grovelling for forgiveness for killing an innocent man, requardless of how the UK feels about firearms.


We are a nation of gun owners. THat will not change anytime soon.

I am sorry if you thought I was ragging on you. I was merely defending my country from the folks that live here and find it such a ghastly place to live in.:eek::rolleyes:


Wrong RICHARD. We are NOT a nation of gun owners. Where on earth do you come up with the stuff???

Our Country was started by the Shot Heard Around the World.


We are a nation DIVIDED on the issue of guns. Some people very strongly believe in gun ownership...some very strongly do not.

We are also a nation divided on the meaning of the words in the Constitution. Yes, yes...I know what you and your fellow travelers think it means.

But you do not speak for the entire nation...anymore than I do.

We are a nation of people where a minority who do not believe in the Constitution are trying to Divide the nation.


Are you picking on those people who complain about the government all the time???:D:D

So you didnt complain during the 8 years of ShrubCo?


Ernest Hancock was once associated with a group called the Viper Militia. None of whom I would want as neighbors.

He obviously wasnt a close enough associate or he would have been convicted as well.

Obama is an associate of known terrorists, Im sure you wouldnt have a problem with them as neighbors.

[blue]

Wow. truly frightening.

I need to get back to Chicago.....

Standing up to your government is frightening?

Yeah no guns in Chicago. :rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

I was merely defending my country from the folks that live here and find it such a ghastly place to live in.:eek::rolleyes:


I was rereading some of this thread to find out who are these people you are talking about???

Probably something like this??


Thus the reason why I HATE our current government.

[Miss Z]

My complaint is about the people who think that the U.S. is nothing but a nation of goofy, lawless, gunpacking paranoid idiots-most of those people live here!

I am sorry if you thought I was ragging on you. I was merely defending my country from the folks that live here and find it such a ghastly place to live in.:eek::rolleyes:

Oh gosh, no, that was never my intention! I'm a firm believer in not tarring everything with the same brush. Personally, I love the way things are run in America, in general. Every branch of politics is far from perfect, British politics being very, very far indeed. I suppose we are just a more tightly-run country and we let too much compassion override our politics (the release of the Libyan Lockerbie criminal a prime example), so the idea of people walking around with guns just does not seem right to me.

I stick by that idea; that guns should be kept out of the hands of everyday people; but it's not my country and I accept that. I merely like to be involved in threads like these for my education on such issues. :)


I would think it wont take to much to ban the carrying of knives or the licensing of martial arts training for self defense in the UK.

I found this comment interesting as the answer is you're right, at least as far as knives go; it is an offense to carry such blades around with you, other than pocket knives. You cannot buy a knife, razor, axe, etc, until you are 18. However, this law doesn't seem to be being enforced enough, as young, stupid people are still getting hold of them and are roaming around, unchecked, in public.

We're having a tough time with knife-crime in the London area. I support 100% the stricter legislations on knife carrying that are being brought up in Parliamentary debate. Too many lives are wasted by idiots getting hammered out of their heads and stabbing to death the next person they meet in the street.

[Puckstop31]

I was rereading some of this thread to find out who are these people you are talking about???

Probably something like this??

There you go again... Cherry picking a sentence out of context.


Oh well. Its no use.

"A zebra cannot change it's stripes."

[Edwina's Secretary]

Speaking of people you might not want to live next door to...

From yesterday's Orange County Register...

An Anaheim woman shot her longtime neighbor in his shoulder after he politely asked her to stop trimming ivy from his side of a shared fence.

Anita Judith Spriggs, 66, then stuffed her gun in an oven mitt, cut a hole in the drywall of a bedroom and tried to hide the package as police surrounded her house....

She is charged with attempted murder and assault with a semiautomatic firearm.

[Edwina's Secretary]

A t-shirt of course!


President Bush's speech at the state capitol in Charleston, W.Va., on Independence Day in 2004, invoked the nation's highest ideals: "On this Fourth of July, we confirm our love of freedom, the freedom for people to speak their minds. ... Free thought, free expression, that's what we believe," Bush told the crowd.

Ringing words. Unfortunately, the White House advance team didn't get the memo. Or the message.

More than an hour earlier, the advance officials, working with local police, had confronted and ejected a young couple who had come to the speech wearing T-shirts that fit any reasonable definition of free expression. The front of both shirts bore the name "Bush" surrounded by a circle with a slash through it; the back of Jeffery Rank's shirt carried the slogan "Regime Change Begins at Home" and Nicole Rank's shirt read, "Love America, Hate Bush."

The Ranks refused demands to take the shirts off, turn them inside out or leave. Though they were on public property and not being disruptive, they were handcuffed, arrested and charged with trespass. The charges were later dropped, and with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union, the Ranks sued the White House advance personnel for violating their First Amendment rights.

Last week, the government settled the case, admitting no wrongdoing but agreeing to pay the Ranks $80,000. That avoidable expenditure of taxpayer dollars speaks volumes about who was wrong here.

Article (http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/08/bush-hails-free.html)

Perhaps if they had been disruptive they would not have been arrested!

[lizbud]

Oh gosh, no, that was never my intention! I'm a firm believer in not tarring everything with the same brush. Personally, I love the way things are run in America, in general. Every branch of politics is far from perfect, British politics being very, very far indeed. I suppose we are just a more tightly-run country and we let too much compassion override our politics (the release of the Libyan Lockerbie criminal a prime example), so the idea of people walking around with guns just does not seem right to me.



I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question please.

May I ask you a question about English Laws & customs . I read a column
on BBC about three people who had been sentenced for the death of a
child. The Police seemed to be saying that they need protect these criminals after
they served their sentences , and they will receive police protection. Is that normal
for England? They sure wouldn't earn any protection from society after
they were out of prison.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8196143.stm

[blue]

Oh gosh, no, that was never my intention! I'm a firm believer in not tarring everything with the same brush. Personally, I love the way things are run in America, in general. Every branch of politics is far from perfect, British politics being very, very far indeed. I suppose we are just a more tightly-run country and we let too much compassion override our politics (the release of the Libyan Lockerbie criminal a prime example), so the idea of people walking around with guns just does not seem right to me.

I stick by that idea; that guns should be kept out of the hands of everyday people; but it's not my country and I accept that. I merely like to be involved in threads like these for my education on such issues. :)

The UK has alot more controll over its citizens then the USA .gov has. I wont ever go the Las Vegas because it has more cameras then London, I would be willing to go to London however. The UK used to be a very firearm oriented place, its been legeslated out to the point where ordinary citizens are fearfull of even seeing a cop with a firearm, my opinion on the subject.


I found this comment interesting as the answer is you're right, at least as far as knives go; it is an offense to carry such blades around with you, other than pocket knives. You cannot buy a knife, razor, axe, etc, until you are 18. However, this law doesn't seem to be being enforced enough, as young, stupid people are still getting hold of them and are roaming around, unchecked, in public.

We're having a tough time with knife-crime in the London area. I support 100% the stricter legislations on knife carrying that are being brought up in Parliamentary debate. Too many lives are wasted by idiots getting hammered out of their heads and stabbing to death the next person they meet in the street.

Crime goes up when the means to defend yourself are taken away. The criminals dont care what weapons they cant legally have, making law abiding citizens victims.


Speaking of people you might not want to live next door to...

From yesterday's Orange County Register...

An Anaheim woman shot her longtime neighbor in his shoulder after he politely asked her to stop trimming ivy from his side of a shared fence.

Anita Judith Spriggs, 66, then stuffed her gun in an oven mitt, cut a hole in the drywall of a bedroom and tried to hide the package as police surrounded her house....

She is charged with attempted murder and assault with a semiautomatic firearm.

Ild say she had a mental issue, Ild love to see how she bought the firearm in the first place. If she has a previous history somebody is going to share a cell along side her.

Late in 2004 a man shot and killed Darrell Abbott of Pantera and Damage Plan by a man whoes mom bought him a firearm, it was illegal for her son to own a firearm for mental reasons. To my knowledge the mother was never charged with a crime she admitted to.


A t-shirt of course!


President Bush's speech at the state capitol in Charleston, W.Va., on Independence Day in 2004, invoked the nation's highest ideals: "On this Fourth of July, we confirm our love of freedom, the freedom for people to speak their minds. ... Free thought, free expression, that's what we believe," Bush told the crowd.

Ringing words. Unfortunately, the White House advance team didn't get the memo. Or the message.

More than an hour earlier, the advance officials, working with local police, had confronted and ejected a young couple who had come to the speech wearing T-shirts that fit any reasonable definition of free expression. The front of both shirts bore the name "Bush" surrounded by a circle with a slash through it; the back of Jeffery Rank's shirt carried the slogan "Regime Change Begins at Home" and Nicole Rank's shirt read, "Love America, Hate Bush."

The Ranks refused demands to take the shirts off, turn them inside out or leave. Though they were on public property and not being disruptive, they were handcuffed, arrested and charged with trespass. The charges were later dropped, and with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union, the Ranks sued the White House advance personnel for violating their First Amendment rights.

Last week, the government settled the case, admitting no wrongdoing but agreeing to pay the Ranks $80,000. That avoidable expenditure of taxpayer dollars speaks volumes about who was wrong here.

Article (http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/08/bush-hails-free.html)

Perhaps if they had been disruptive they would not have been arrested!

The Ranks were trying to attend a private event, what about the man arrested for wearing a McCain/Palin tshirt the night of the Presidential election?

-------------------

How about MSNC editing the coverage of the man carrying the AR 15 at the Arizona Obama rally? How else are they going to say the protesters are racist?

Link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI)

[RICHARD]

How about MSNC editing the coverage of the man carrying the AR 15 at the Arizona Obama rally? How else are they going to say the protesters are racist?

Link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI)

Is this the Contessa Brewer clip?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL,

WHITE PEOPLE WITH GUNS!!!!!!!!!

If it wasn't for white people with guns, I wouldn't have the nice life I have now!

Thank you Pale/Ashen/Off White Folks for doing all the work that Hispanic/Latino people won't do!;)

[blue]

Is this the Contessa Brewer clip?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL,

WHITE PEOPLE WITH GUNS!!!!!!!!!

If it wasn't for white people with guns, I wouldn't have the nice life I have now!

Thank you Pale/Ashen/Off White Folks for doing all the work that Hispanic/Latino people won't do!;)

WHITE MALES WITH GUNS!!!!!!

I like how Conny and the black dude directed all their questions at the white dude, and not one mention that the man with the AR 15 was black. No media bias there.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sure are obsessed about race, aren't you RICHARD?

I suppose that is easier than dealing with substance!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[blue]

Sure are obsessed about race, aren't you RICHARD?

I suppose that is easier than dealing with substance!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I have never seen RICHARD accuse anybody of being racist.

[blue]

N u a n c e

Oh wait, its you who routinely calls people racist or sexist. N u a n c e indeed.


Quoted Before the Delete by ES!!!

[Miss Z]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question please.

May I ask you a question about English Laws & customs . I read a column
on BBC about three people who had been sentenced for the death of a
child. The Police seemed to be saying that they need protect these criminals after
they served their sentences , and they will receive police protection. Is that normal
for England? They sure wouldn't earn any protection from society after
they were out of prison.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8196143.stm

Ah yes, the baby 'P' case. A very sad story indeed, and one that our social services has received a lot of criticism over.

That is correct, once released from prison these people do have a right to call for police protection (although as far as I'm aware, it is for a limited period of time only. Quite how long that is, I don't know. It varies from case to case). This happens often in cases of a sensitive nature, particularly those involving children.

The 'idea' is that the criminals have served their punishment in prison, and that upon their release they are likely to be subject to further abuse and discrimination from the public, job interviewers, etc. In order for the people in question to continue with their lives without the risk of assualt, or worse, the police protection is there to ensure that.

I must say that in the majority of cases like this, those convicted are kept anonymous, thus police protection is not usually needed. However, for some reason or another, the anonymity request expired.

It's an issue that divides our nation, just as ES explained that gun laws divide America. Many people feel very, very strongly that ex-cons should pay the full penalty for the crime they committed, and should 'get what they deserve'. Others question whether that sort of attitude breaches human rights and that, if someone was wrongly convicted, which does happen occasionally, they would be subject to undeserved hatred and hardship for the rest of their lives.

It's another issue of perhaps considering compassion a little too much in politics.


Crime goes up when the means to defend yourself are taken away. The criminals dont care what weapons they cant legally have, making law abiding citizens victims.


I think in the UK it's more to do with a lack of fear of being caught and reprimanded. We have far less on-the-beat bobbies than we used to so this sort of crime is much easier to get away with. Also, we keep letting all our petty to moderate criminals out early on 'good behaviour' because we don't have enough prison space to cram them all in. I don't think it's got much to do with self defence, except in Manchester/London gang culture, which do not count for all stabbings.

[RICHARD]

I have never seen RICHARD accuse anybody of being racist.

But, I am a fan of Racism.


http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/mmartin00/cup/index.html


----------------------------

My attempt at humor stems from the 'historical record' that states the the European settlers came to America/the Americas with guns promptly took it over.

Contessa to me, Conny to you???:p

I may be a tad jealous.

Oops! Does that qualify me as a sinner and a racist?:eek:

[lizbud]

Oh wait, its you who routinely calls people racist or sexist. N u a n c e indeed.






The word NUANCE makes no sense in that sentence.:rolleyes:
You not only don't you do NUANCE, you don't know it's meaning either.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But did you see Liz? It appears blue has a crush on both you and me....

He has both our names as his signature! :D

[lizbud]

Ah yes, the baby 'P' case. A very sad story indeed, and one that our social services has received a lot of criticism over.

That is correct, once released from prison these people do have a right to call for police protection (although as far as I'm aware, it is for a limited period of time only. Quite how long that is, I don't know. It varies from case to case). This happens often in cases of a sensitive nature, particularly those involving children.

The 'idea' is that the criminals have served their punishment in prison, and that upon their release they are likely to be subject to further abuse and discrimination from the public, job interviewers, etc. In order for the people in question to continue with their lives without the risk of assualt, or worse, the police protection is there to ensure that.

I must say that in the majority of cases like this, those convicted are kept anonymous, thus police protection is not usually needed. However, for some reason or another, the anonymity request expired.

It's an issue that divides our nation, just as ES explained that gun laws divide America. Many people feel very, very strongly that ex-cons should pay the full penalty for the crime they committed, and should 'get what they deserve'. Others question whether that sort of attitude breaches human rights and that, if someone was wrongly convicted, which does happen occasionally, they would be subject to undeserved hatred and hardship for the rest of their lives.

It's another issue of perhaps considering compassion a little too much in politics.





Thanks for explaning. Seems like the victim's rights are overlooked
in that case.IMO.

[lizbud]

But did you see Liz? It appears blue has a crush on both you and me....

He has both our names as his signature! :D

Oh, and I thought I was his favorite.:D Well, if I have to share the honor,
you 're the one I would pick. LOL :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

The word NUANCE makes no sense in that sentence.:rolleyes:
You not only don't you do NUANCE, you don't know it's meaning either.

So Liz...if someone does not know the difference between calling someone a racist and being racist would that be an example of not doing nuance?

I think perhaps it is a deeper lack of comprehension?

[blue]

The word NUANCE makes no sense in that sentence.:rolleyes:
You not only don't you do NUANCE, you don't know it's meaning either.

Of course it makes no sense, ES deleted her post.


But did you see Liz? It appears blue has a crush on both you and me....

He has both our names as his signature! :D


Oh, and I thought I was his favorite.:D Well, if I have to share the honor,
you 're the one I would pick. LOL :D


So Liz...if someone does not know the difference between calling someone a racist and being racist would that be an example of not doing nuance?

I think perhaps it is a deeper lack of comprehension?

You two are way too full of yourselves.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Oh, and I thought I was his favorite.:D Well, if I have to share the honor,
you 're the one I would pick. LOL :D

Have you noticed...when either of us posts he has to respond?

Ah..unrequited love!:D;)

[RICHARD]

I love it when serendipity and providence collide.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/strips/mallard/2000/MFT20090821.jpg

Thanks Fillmore!

LOL,

As it turns out, people are so hard-wired into the freedom of speech mode, they don't have the "Freedom of Listen" gene anymore.

What is it with the feelings of Verboten Taboo or the "Thing that shall not be spoken of." make me laugh. We are all supposed to sit down, behave and figure out why the world sucks. When we do sit down, someone in the back yells at the people who are trying to get shiat done. It goes something like this, "What are you AHs doing?"

Someone else yells back and the progress is wiped off the board!

I don't carry around the guilt nor the weird "I can't talk about THAT" hangup.

If you think about it long enough, you can pretty much clean up any topic, discuss it and maybe laugh about it?:eek::rolleyes:;)


There are a group of Young, Stupid and woefully bright Am/Mexs that still think that Cah lee fuh Nee Ah belongs to Mexico.

Back in school I had run ins with these idiots all the time. I was once accosted because I wasn't "mexican" enough to participate in a show of "Cultural Pride".

So,
I think these morons can take the state back for Mexico on their own. Upon further review of the clubs and assocs. that promote "chicano" ethics I found that they are just as racist as the racists they 'fight'.

Their politics are nothing special and when any hispanic gets a job, it's always the "First Mex/Am, Hispanic,Spanish" person to do XXXXXXXX.


Hehehehe,

I wanted to be the First American of Mexican Descent from the Hood to climb Mount Everest. Ain't gonna happen because the Cops probably have chased some other poor Mexican up the hill during a car chase.

I really hate it when people pussyfoot-this is a pet site, after all:D-around issues and can't help but pull out the "race cards".


Look, All you All got blamed for the "Dirty Blankets and Disease" that came from Europe.....So you have this guilt thing going and have to fiercely defend yourselves when we deal with each other.

It was all an unfortunate, weird sickness thing that no one could have predicted. I laugh when I hear that accusation come up.

Two film clips that I love to see on the tube are the interviews with the illegal alien in CA and the racist in GA.


I should say that the illegal alien is a racist effer, too!

He's here leaching off the system and then he claims that the WHITE FOLKS won't give him insurance, jobs and ????? He already has his 48 kids in school -on my dime- and he's complaining?

Then you get old Bubba sitting on this tractor, spitting Redman into the dust, saying something like, "They should sen allllllll dem wetbacks back to MESICO where they belong".

There is a delicious irony about this.....Two racists knot heads that probably work for/with each other. The farmer grows the food for the IAs kid and the IA turns bolts at the tractor house.

We all need and have to deal with each other.

The only real thing that separates the groups of people on the planet is that half of them pee standing up.

But that's biology, not Politics and Religion.:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Some men took guns to large public events where the president is speaking....OH MY Gosh...One of them is black!!!

How many words does it take to try and justify/rationalize making that about race...............555!

[Miss Z]

Thanks for explaning. Seems like the victim's rights are overlooked
in that case.IMO.

No problem, and I, personally, agree with you.

[RICHARD]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32503068/ns/us_news-weird_news/?GT1=43001

More pictures of scary white people with guns!:D:eek:;)

-------------

Before I go on, I want to apologize to all the pink (and color gradients there of) people out there that I may have offended.

I also want to apologize for the Alamo, the fort and not the car rental place.
Taco Bell and the faux chalupas, Making you all celebrate Cinco de Mayo and the awful Tequila Hangovers that follow and for Bill Richardson.

I really want to believe he does have Latin roots, but his last name is way too anglo-cized for me to get behind his cause(s).

I'll have to apologize for Sonia Sotomayor before hand! God knows what mistakes a wise latina will make in the future.

I want to apologize for all the kids that go to spring break in Mexico and come back sunburned, drunk, pregnant, ill or pick up an STD.

I will not apologize for Montezuma's Revenge.

We warn you about the water all the time.

I kinda have to apologize for all the complaints generated about the Frito Bandito, Taco Bell Dog and Juan Valdez, the coffee dude.

JV is actually Columbian, so I have limited authority to speak for him.

So, now that we have all the 'racial' stuff out of the way, can we go back to talking about politics?


-------------------------

Seriously.

Why are the 'astroturf' people at the THMs so riled up?

YOU work/have a career for a couple of decades and have money taken out of your checks for your "Maidandcare" then wake up one morning and have the idiot you voted into office tell you you are SOL.

Then you are going to tell me that you are going to NUKE the law into effect?

Nuclear was a pretty funny word when it was mispronounced for eight years, now you want me to understand and welcome it when it's pronounced 'correctly' and it's being used to shove a HIR/HCR bill up my wazoo????

Ai Dios!

I can hardly wait for the 2010 elections.

I am going to vote hard and fast, Then ask the politicians to squeal like a pig.
It's gonna be fun being on the giving end this time around.:eek:;)

[lizbud]

Of course it makes no sense, ES deleted her post.

You two are way too full of yourselves.


No sweetie, it's a question of english grammer. AND.....

We can't help it if we are blessed.:)

[RICHARD]

No sweetie, it's a question of english grammer. AND.....



I had a Mexican Grammer and she lived to be almost 100. She didn't speak English but my other Grammer did.:confused::eek:

[Grace]

I also want to apologize for the Alamo, the fort and not the car rental place.
Taco Bell and the faux chalupas, Making you all celebrate Cinco de Mayo and the awful Tequila Hangovers that follow and for Bill Richardson.

I really want to believe he does have Latin roots, but his last name is way too anglo-cized for me to get behind his cause(s).



Regarding Bill Richardson. His father - William Blaine Richardson Jr.

His mother - His mother, María Luisa López-Collada Márquez is the daughter of a Spanish father from Villaviciosa, Asturias, Spain and a Mexican mother.



I think that qualifies him as somewhat Hispanic.

[lizbud]

I had a Mexican Grammer and she lived to be almost 100. She didn't speak English but my other Grammer did.:confused::eek:



You are a nut.:D I gotta go watch the evening news.:eek:

[Edwina's Secretary]

He's here leaching off the system

Unless you are talking about urinating again:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It is leeching not leaching.....

What ...you think you are the only one who can be petty?;)

[blue]

Some men took guns to large public events where the president is speaking....OH MY Gosh...One of them is black!!!

Not according to MSNBC. They said that those men, legally exercising their Rights, are racists. Can a black man call another black man a racist?:confused:


No sweetie, it's a question of english grammer. AND.....

We can't help it if we are blessed.:)

How is this for not making sense?

http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/albums/857054/NuanceSquirrel.jpg

Yall sure cant help the huge egos or the hubris either. :D

[RICHARD]

Regarding Bill Richardson. His father - William Blaine Richardson Jr.

His mother - His mother, María Luisa López-Collada Márquez is the daughter of a Spanish father from Villaviciosa, Asturias, Spain and a Mexican mother.



I think that qualifies him as somewhat Hispanic.

I knew that. I was just being stupid.

So, Dad's hood gets a shout out and Mexican g-mom don't get jack?

My grandfather was from Spain and G-ma was from Guadalajara-Y que?

Dad married some gal from from Van Nuys, CA and managed to give us his mom's maiden name.

So, I managed to keep my 'heritage' and rather simple last name intact.;)

--------------------

María Luisa López-Collada Márquez

ANy relation to the Pina-Colladas?:rolleyes::mad::eek:

[Grace]

--------------------

María Luisa López-Collada Márquez

ANy relation to the Pina-Colladas?:rolleyes::mad::eek:

You probably should ask Orc about that :love:

[blue]

ANy relation to the Pina-Colladas?:rolleyes::mad::eek:

http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/albums/857054/PinaSquirrel.jpg

[RICHARD]

There we go....A little levity never hurt anyone!:D

[Grace]

Is that Orc? Somehow I thought he was larger, and sort of gray?



http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/albums/857054/PinaSquirrel.jpg

[Edwina's Secretary]

We can't help it if we are blessed.:)

Looks like our "blessing" continues!:D:D:D

[RICHARD]

Is that Orc? Somehow I thought he was larger, and sort of gray?

Beer goggles make everthing look better!:D:eek:

[blue]

Looks like our "blessing" continues!:D:D:D

Oh look. Another huge ego with hubris to boot.

[Edwina's Secretary]

So Liz...if women who chase younger men are called Cougars...what are younger men called who chase older women?:D:D

[blue]

So Liz...if women who chase younger men are called Cougars...what are younger men called who chase older women?:D:D

I know its hard, but dont flatter yourself. The older women younger men chase are cougars, the older women who chase younger men are not called cougars.


Ive seen your pic, you are no cougar.

[blue]

In an effort to take the spotlight away from the ego maniacs that think this thread is about them....

/Rant On

$2 Million to go to Brazil thanks to Obama.


U.S. Export-Import Bank promised Petrobras, Brazil's state-owned oil company, $2 billion in loan guarantees to help finance lucrative drilling off the shores of Rio De Janeiro.Source (U.S. Export-Import Bank promised Petrobras, Brazil's state-owned oil company, $2 billion in loan guarantees to help finance lucrative drilling off the shores of Rio De Janeiro.).

With all the oil we Know is here in the USA, lets fund drilling off of Brazil. Makes sense right? No it doesnt! They dont even have to drill here with the amount of finds that have been capped. What we lack is refinery cappacity. One also might question why we have so much of our refining cappacity in Hurricane Alley.

Why increase our refineries output when the current push is to go green? Because our infrastructure is based on fosile fuels. Electric or Hybid cars, the electricity has to come from somewhere, batteries are not 100% efficient, so the electricity is produced from fosile fuels. Speaking of batteries, if you want a hybrid or electric car, you support strip mining if you expect the end product to be affordable. What happens to the batteries when they can no longer hold a charge, they get recycled. Recycled into what exactly?

/Rant off.

Regaurdless of the above rant, how many barrels of oil are sitting under our feet? We are importing millions of barrels of oil and gas because we dont have the cappacity to refine what we currently have in the ground on our own soil.

[RICHARD]

I may be mistaken but wasn't this month the worst for casualties in Afghanistan?

Where are those pesky war protestors?

[Grace]

I may be mistaken but wasn't this month the worst for casualties in Afghanistan?

Where are those pesky war protestors?

So far this month is second to July. But there are several days left, and the way things have been going . . . . . . .

As for the protesters, one of them is sitting right here, in front of my computer, checking to see if anymore of our soldiers, sailors, marines have died since my last In Memoriam posting.

[Grace]

And Cindy Sheehan, well as ABC News puts it -


If it's August, it must be time for Cindy Sheehan to drop in on a presidential vacation.

[RICHARD]

So far this month is second to July. But there are several days left, and the way things have been going . . . . . . .

As for the protesters, one of them is sitting right here, in front of my computer, checking to see if anymore of our soldiers, sailors, marines have died since my last In Memoriam posting.

Hmmmmm. It's 100 degrees outdoors!

[lizbud]

In an effort to take the spotlight away from the ego maniacs that think this thread is about them....

/Rant On

$2 Million to go to Brazil thanks to Obama.

Source (U.S. Export-Import Bank promised Petrobras, Brazil's state-owned oil company, $2 billion in loan guarantees to help finance lucrative drilling off the shores of Rio De Janeiro.).

With all the oil we Know is here in the USA, lets fund drilling off of Brazil. Makes sense right? No it doesnt! They dont even have to drill here with the amount of finds that have been capped. What we lack is refinery cappacity. One also might question why we have so much of our refining cappacity in Hurricane Alley.

Why increase our refineries output when the current push is to go green? Because our infrastructure is based on fosile fuels. Electric or Hybid cars, the electricity has to come from somewhere, batteries are not 100% efficient, so the electricity is produced from fosile fuels. Speaking of batteries, if you want a hybrid or electric car, you support strip mining if you expect the end product to be affordable. What happens to the batteries when they can no longer hold a charge, they get recycled. Recycled into what exactly?

/Rant off.

Regaurdless of the above rant, how many barrels of oil are sitting under our feet? We are importing millions of barrels of oil and gas because we dont have the cappacity to refine what we currently have in the ground on our own soil.

Did it again twit. Oh ,and your source link didn't work.:rolleyes:


Want the real facts? Check it out here..........

http://www.exim.gov/brazil/pressrelease_082009.cfm

[pomtzu]

Did it again twit. Oh ,and your source link didn't work.:rolleyes:


Want the real facts? Check it out here..........

http://www.exim.gov/brazil/pressrelease_082009.cfm

Twit???? That's not very nice. Maybe the pot calling the kettle black.....????

And the "real" facts???? I guess that could depend on which source you care to believe. :eek:

[RICHARD]

:confused:BO's Jr press secretary should think about running for office. This guy is smarter, can talk without a teleprompter and off his cuff.

--------------------

I was thinking about how TK's political career would have been had he not been driving on that bridge way back when.

Then, I compared his experience being a senator with the current WH occupant.

Somehow I think the country was shortchanged.

Wow, fate can be cruel. :(

[lizbud]

Twit???? That's not very nice. Maybe the pot calling the kettle black.....????

And the "real" facts???? I guess that could depend on which source you care to believe. :eek:


Geeze.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[pomtzu]

Geeze.:rolleyes::rolleyes:


You got that right!!! :p

:D :D :D :D :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

As for the protesters, one of them is sitting right here, in front of my computer,.

And here...although I do my check on Sundays...

When I was digging out the squirrel photos last night I came across photos of the anti-war march I attended in San Francisco in 2003.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I know its hard, but dont flatter yourself. The older women younger men chase are cougars, the older women who chase younger men are not called cougars.


[COLO="White"]Ive seen your pic, you are no cougar.[/COLOR]

How did I miss this?? blue...you are wrong again...


The most commonly-accepted definition of a cougar is a woman 40 years of age or older who exclusively pursues very young men.

And I know how important links are to you so... What is a cougar? (http://womensissues.about.com/od/startingover/f/FAQCougar.htm)

And you are quite right that I am not a cougar...I am a happily married woman...but ...my husband is a few years younger than I am!:D:D

[Grace]

And you are quite right that I am not a cougar...I am a happily married woman...but ...my husband is a few years younger than I am!:D:D

As is mine :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

As is mine :)

Does that make us cradle robbers...or comitted former cougars??:D:D

[Grace]

Does that make us cradle robbers...or comitted former cougars??:D:D

According to your definition of cougar, I don't qualify, as I was younger than 40 when Douglas and I started dating. As for cradle robbing, I don't think so.

I think it means we are wise women. When we find the right one, we don't get tangled up with what others may say. We go for it :D:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

I had just turned 40 when I started dating my husband.....oh no...I AM a cougar!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

:D

[phesina]

Here's what wikipedia has to say on their page on "Age disparity in sexual relationships" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar_%28slang%29#Slang_terms):

Cougar—a woman over 40 who sexually pursues younger men, typically more than eight years her junior. The term appears to have been coined by Canadian website Cougardate.com and has been used in TV series, advertising and film. The 2007 film Cougar Club was dedicated to the subject and in Spring 2009 TV Land aired a reality show called The Cougar.

[Grace]

I had just turned 40 when I started dating my husband.....oh no...I AM a cougar!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

:D

E.S., check out Phesina's post - a woman over 40. You made it just under the wire :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

But you know....this still leaves my original questions unanswered.

The older woman is called a cougar...what is the younger man called?

Other than very fortunate??;):p;)