Politics and religion.

[Puckstop31]

I am still waiting... No, PLEADING with the Obama people here to make the case to me for his economic plan. No baiting or trolling... I want to hear it from one of the people who believe in him.

All I need to know is the answer to one question. How does raising ANY taxes help? The last thing we need now is petty class warfare.

[RICHARD]

Multi-tasking?

Has anyone ever walked into a shop/business to be greeted by the clerk/associate on a cell phone, computer, register and talking to a customer at the same time?

The kind of service you get really bites.

Chances are a mistake will be made somewhere along the line and an unhappy consumer/customer is born! I really do not like anyone running the country with an iPhone shoved in their head, their chief of staff whispering in their ear, a computer screen on their lap and a stupid idea in their head.

I want someone who will take the most important problem fix that and work their way from there. You split you attention between jobs, you will get a half assed result.

---------------

And here is another thing that makes me laugh about the naivete and stupidity of people who think that the president "Has his finger on the button"

NO single man, president or otherwise can 'push the button' all on his own.
He has staff that will help him decide if there will be any kind of retaliatory or first strike against anyone.

So stop it! The red button only exists in movies and comic books.

The Dems say that the GOP works with the fear factor when it comes to campaigns. The dems have used the 'button' analogy and a commercial where they have some doctors telling the voters about JM melanoma and how bad his odds are of another bout with it.

I had to laugh because they have the GQ looking doc, with a stethoscope draped over his shoulders talking about JM's cancer. They then show a side photo of JM looking like a frankenstein monster.

I really trust a doctor, who probably has never been near JM, on a commercial set wearing a stethoscope.
PLEASE!!
----------------

Stop with the stupidity and madness-Where is Susan Powter when you need a bit of direction.

I started out being neutral and leaned to the left, right, left, right and now
I am sitting down and laughing. The last 12 months have been entertaining and before that the speech at the 04 Democratic Convention where some unknown nitwitgave a talk and blinded everyone to the fact that there were/are other people more that fit for the nomination of presidental candidate!

It's coming down to the slickest line of BS that gets slung last.

ME? I want the winner to be the person that causes the population the worst case of pain and misery! I love to watch people elect and defend the biggest morons on the planet. I thought NP wa going to set the Congress straight.

That bag of wind has flipped more times that a underage Chinese gymnast, and is dopier than a Tour de France cyclist.

Enough already, I really DGAF about multitasking, stopping a campaign or melanoma. Prove to me that you will at least try to make change-not steal it from my pockets.

Community organizers are some of the shadiest people on the planet. Some of the people I have read about in the paper make me laugh. The 'gang counselor' that was bagged with Meth and guns, The city councilman who spent my tax money sending flunkies on personal errands-The COs job is to stir the neighborhood pot and when things don't get changed, they shrug shoulder and go on to the next 'problem'.

Multi-tasking?

No, Political ADHD! Just pay attention to what you are doing at the moment.
the simpler things can wait and you will grow in your ability to chew gum, breathe, read -then sign a bill/law that will take care of all the cronies who put you into the White House-all at the same time.

-----------


We need someone like the new PM of Israel - A funny name with a serious job.
And those crazy Israelis! Didn't they learn when Golda was running the show?
Of course the newbie, probably has never been a PM before, does that disqualify her?;):confused::eek:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Did you see where McCain really cheesed David Letterman off ? :D

Aparently he was to be on Letterman's show Wednesday night but canceled an hour before because he was, um, RUSHING off to catch a plane to DC to solve the "crisis".

Letterman found out McCain was instead in makeup getting ready to do an interview with Katie Couric. Letterman really blasted McCain on his show and offered to give McCain a ride to the airport. :D

I wonder if Letterman will still vote for him.


Lo and behold!!! McCain decided to go to the debate tonight after all. Yea, after Obama said he would talk to the people without him. Obama called McCain's bluff and won this round!!!

[RICHARD]

Did you see where McCain really cheesed David Letterman off ? :D

Aparently he was to be on Letterman's show Wednesday night but canceled an hour before because he was, um, RUSHING off to catch a plane to DC to solve the "crisis".




I could see if it was Hanna Montana, Clay Aiken or the last person that was voted off Dancing With The Stars that stood him up.....

Since when does a politician have to keep a promise?;)

[smokey the elder]

It would be the logical way to do it, but would never happen. Too elitist.

And the pool of presidential candidates as it exists now isn't?:confused: You need at least 10 million dollars to even think about becoming President. You don't get that working at Wally World.

[RICHARD]

And the pool of presidential candidates as it exists now isn't?:confused: You need at least 10 million dollars to even think about becoming President. You don't get that working at Wally World.


At 8.50 an hour?

7776470.5882352352941176470588235 hours, before taxes.

Many pres bids are financed by entities that are more like the human side of a ventriloquist pair. The candidates need someone with a hand down their pants to make their mouths move and eyes to blink.;)

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Yep, Ole honest Abe L. would never get elected today. He wasn't rich enough. :rolleyes:

[lizbud]

Yep, Ole honest Abe L. would never get elected today. He wasn't rich enough. :rolleyes:


It's the political party that choses the candidate and raises the money
for them to run in the first place, but it sure is expensive nowadays.

It's really hard to believe Lincoln was in the same political party as Bush
and McCain.:rolleyes: They have really lowered the bar since the old days.

[RICHARD]

Yep, Ole honest Abe L. would never get elected today. He wasn't rich enough. :rolleyes:

IF he wasn't so fricking lazy and counted up all the pennies he owns?:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

Here's a question that I pondered for all of three seconds.

If BO was a community organizer, just like JC, where are all the reports/news clips of the wonderful things he's done?

I figure if he can claim that on a resume', why not give us some hard facts to judge him by.:confused:

----------

Another thing about the debate.

What was the "That's not true!" statement getting tossed in while JM was talking?
That's one of the "dem' tactics I have noticed the party has adapted lately. SHOUT PEOPLE DOWN!!!!! Sheesh. what a marroon!:rolleyes:

[caseysmom]

My daughter had to critic the debate for a political science class. It is pretty interesting, things that we would not have noticed if she had not been asked to notice. One of the questions is whether or not the canditate looks into the camera or do they look around at other things and look down.

McCain always looked down and around and pretty much anywhere but the camera, Obama stared right into the camera.

[blue]

Obama stared right into the camera.

The telepromter is in line with the camera isnt it?

[RICHARD]

The telepromter is in line with the camera isnt it?

On a camera? Yes.

The other setup for a TP is one monitor set-up on either side of a podium/stand. Those are the square panes of glass that you see on the stage.

The monitor where the text is displayed is set pointing upwards.
The pane of glass that reflects the text is slanted 45 degrees (top edge of the glass from a vertical position) toward the person that is giving the speech.

The camera mounted TP hangs off the front of the camera and the pane of glass is set in in front of the lense so the person can read text and look 'into' the camera.

---------------

Each candidate has speech writers and "consultants" who advise them as to where to look, which hand gestures that aren't cool and what not to do while on camera/stage.

Do not confuse anything you see as sincere when a politician speaks.

As in a regular conversation with someone, looking away when you are speaking to them is considered rude and shows disrespect to that person.

BO was schooled to look into the camera, to make a connection with the audience. That's an old one. Politicians are told that eye contact is essential when talking to people. That was a mistake on BO's part. He's debating JM, not the audience. Looking down and checking a cheat sheet and making tic marks on the copy is not a bad thing. It means you are prepared with 'notes' for your presentation, it also means you need help to set up a thought or answer to a question.

Three things about Obama- He is only eloquent when being fed a speech, He cannot speak off the cuff or deviate from a script- His Ums and Ahs are part of his character that his toadies cannot control about him.

His bravado only serves to get him farther up the creek when he gets caught up in the crowd reaction. He starts to puff out his chest and starts to pace.

The last thing is the facial/body language. He 'jumps' onto the stage like an sports figure taking the court. He does the bounce, hand clap and pointing into the audience.

That entrance, the 'talking smack/rile up the audience' is more suited to sports gamesmanship. It shows that you are there to be lauded by the audience-Not the other way around. You are supposed to be there for the people...Entrances like that are just "HEY LOOK AT ME, IT"S ABOUT ME!" - It just puts the person above the crowd and not 'inviting' them to a level where everyone is equal.
--------------------

Clinton 'invented' the CREDIT CARD gesture because his toadies thought that his finger pointing gestures were standoffish. They told him to use it instead of a finger.

The CCG is the fist balled up with the thumb on top, like you were handing off a credit card. YOu see it all the time now. Another 'gesture' for politicians who talk with their hands? Holding on the side of the podium.

When you listen or see a politician talk, stop and look at their gestures, tones and the cadence in their speech. You'll see a how insincere/honest they are.

Check it out.:eek:

[lizbud]

I sort of like this idea.:D There were minutes in the first debate where
it was really necessary.:D:D

New Debate Rules Allow For One 15-Second Strangulation
September 25, 2008 |

OXFORD, MS—Amid discussions of possibly postponing the debate altogether, Sens. Barack Obama (D-IL) and John McCain (R-AZ) were able to agree Thursday on a new guideline that would allow each candidate one 15-second strangulation during Friday night's presidential debate. "Both candidates will receive two minutes to answer each question, five minutes for discussion, and a one-time-only option to walk over to their opponent's podium and cut off his oxygen supply for up to 15 seconds," a statement from the Commission on Presidential Debates read in part, also specifying that debate moderator Jim Lehrer can exercise his own discretion in determining whether or not the strangulations go over time. "After being choked, the candidate, if still standing, may counter with one of his two allotted empty beer bottles to the head." Because many have agreed the new rule will benefit McCain, the commission has also allotted Obama an optional double-thumbed eye gouge.

[RICHARD]

I sort of like this idea.:D There were minutes in the first debate where
it was really necessary.:D:D

New Debate Rules Allow For One 15-Second Strangulation
September 25, 2008 |

OXFORD, MS—Amid discussions of possibly postponing the debate altogether, Sens. Barack Obama (D-IL) and John McCain (R-AZ) were able to agree Thursday on a new guideline that would allow each candidate one 15-second strangulation during Friday night's presidential debate. "Both candidates will receive two minutes to answer each question, five minutes for discussion, and a one-time-only option to walk over to their opponent's podium and cut off his oxygen supply for up to 15 seconds," a statement from the Commission on Presidential Debates read in part, also specifying that debate moderator Jim Lehrer can exercise his own discretion in determining whether or not the strangulations go over time. "After being choked, the candidate, if still standing, may counter with one of his two allotted empty beer bottles to the head." Because many have agreed the new rule will benefit McCain, the commission has also allotted Obama an optional double-thumbed eye gouge.


Can you post a link to this story?;)

Actually the next debate will have MMA rules in place, No biting, strikes to the back of the head, no bending fingers, gouging or kicking or knee strikes to the head when your opponent has knees on the ground.

[lizbud]

Can you post a link to this story?;)

Actually the next debate will have MMA rules in place, No biting, strikes to the back of the head, no bending fingers, gouging or kicking or knee strikes to the head when your opponent has knees on the ground.


Actually, I do.:) What's MMA?

[RICHARD]

Actually, I do.:) What's MMA?

Cage fighting/mixed martial arts!:D
Wouldn't that be a hoot?

JM in a pair of boxing shorts!:eek::rolleyes::(

[Puckstop31]

LOL

So much for an impartial moderator at the veep debate.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76645

Oh and before you rag on WND as a biased source, (which it can be at times) please preorder the book... ;)

http://www.amazon.com/Breakthrough-Politics-Race-Age-Obama/dp/038552501X

[RICHARD]

LOL

So much for an impartial moderator at the veep debate.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76645

Oh and before you rag on WND as a biased source, (which it can be at times) please preorder the book... ;)

http://www.amazon.com/Breakthrough-Politics-Race-Age-Obama/dp/038552501X


Well, I can see that the converstation will be like should BO lose in November with that twit.

WHat royalties are you getting by selling the book?;) I can get it in the 99 cent bin at the local Target in Feb!:D

[Grace]

Regarding Ifill's book - it's not as though anyone was trying to hide the existence of it. From Politico -




October 01, 2008
Categories: Debates
Ifill's book was no secret

Michelle Malkin and World Net Daily have made a lot of noise today about the fact the Gwen Ifill, the moderator of Thursday's debate, has a new book coming on Inauguration day about Barack Obama and the politics of race -- leading to the front of Drudge.

Fox's Greta Van Susteren reports that the McCain campaign didn't know about it.

"I am stunned….the campaign (actually both) should have been told before the campaign agreed to have her moderate. It simply is not fair -- in law, this would create a mistrial."

But one didn't have to go the lengths of oppo research to find out about a book that was hiding in plain sight on Amazon. Not to mention, She discussed it with Howard Kurtz last month in the Washington Post, in the only profile she's done before the debate. (And I'd imagine someone in the campaign should have read it).

To the extent she can carve out any spare time, Ifill is working on a book called "Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama." She focuses on the Democratic nominee and such up-and-coming black politicians as Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick and Newark Mayor Cory Booker.

"We're very lazy when we think about race in this country," Ifill says. "We try to put it in a box. It's Jesse versus Al, or Jesse and Al versus everyone else," she says, referring to Jackson and Sharpton. "We love simplistic conflict. There's a whole group of people who have Ivy League degrees and immense accomplishments who actually benefited from the things their parents were fighting for."

Regardles, the story's getting major play on cable, especially Fox News.

Speaking with Bill Hemmer, Fox analyst Juan Williams spoke admirably of Ifill as a journalist but admitted that "it looks like she has some investment" in the outcome of the election, and that "there's a perception problem." The FoxNews.com headline: "VP Debate Moderator Pens Pro-Obama Book."

I think Malkin and other critics have a right to raise questions about whether Ifill should be moderating, but at the same time, it's not as if the veteran PBS journalist has been keeping the book under wraps until now. It's also a logical question to ask whether an Obama book would sell better or worse depending on the outcome of the election. I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that if Obama's sworn in on the Jan. 20 pub date, it will likely sell more copies.

So why is this coming up less than 36 hours before Palin and Biden hit the stage?

By Michael Calderone 09:44 AM


Seems like some were not doing their homework?

[Puckstop31]

Regarding Ifill's book - it's not as though anyone was trying to hide the existence of it. From Politico -




Seems like some were not doing their homework?

Whatever... Not doing homework, whatever.

Do you think it's fair that the moderator for the debate stands to profit from an Obama victory? Do you think there might be just a smidge of bias???

[Grace]

Whatever... Not doing homework, whatever.

Do you think it's fair that the moderator for the debate stands to profit from an Obama victory? Do you think there might be just a smidge of bias???

Makes no difference what I think, nobody will listen to me, or you for that matter. Bias - possibly; but now that this is all over the news, it would seem Ifill would bend over backwards to be fair and balanced.

If anyone had bothered to ask me what I would like to see at a VP Debate - I would like it to be more free-wheeling like that between McCain and Obama; I would like to have seen Rachel Maddow as moderator.

[RICHARD]

I would like to have seen Rachel Maddow as moderator.


All political stuff aside.

What is it with Madcow?

Her adam's apple is second to the the other gal, can't think of her name at the moment- and the weird head bob/jut that she does when she wants to make a point.

She remindes me of a Women's Studies teacher at the local community college. The kind of personr that you see on a campus sidewalk, then cross to the other side of the street because you just don't want to deal with saying 'Good afternoon/morning" to her.:eek:

[lizbud]

All political stuff aside.

What is it with Madcow?

Her adam's apple is second to the the other gal, can't think of her name at the moment- and the weird head bob/jut that she does when she wants to make a point.

She remindes me of a Women's Studies teacher at the local community college. The kind of personr that you see on a campus sidewalk, then cross to the other side of the street because you just don't want to deal with saying 'Good afternoon/morning" to her.:eek:


What's wrong Richard, Rachel doen't show enough cleavage for ya or do
you just try to avoid intelligent women? :D

Here's something more your style I think......:p:p A nude Sarah Palin.:eek:


http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-sarah-palin-nude-0930,0,273867.story

[Grace]

All political stuff aside.

What is it with Madcow?


What's not to like, Richard? She is intelligent, polite, self-deprecating, and, I think, attractive.

And what could you possibly find wrong with this -

“I don’t get mad because somebody has a different perspective than me,” she explains. “I get mad at people who are screwing things up in the country, and screwing things up in the world. But if you disagree with me about even serious issues, and you’re willing to debate them with me in a civil way without being insulting, I’m going to enjoy that conversation.”

[RICHARD]

What's not to like, Richard? She is intelligent, polite, self-deprecating, and, I think, attractive.

And what could you possibly find wrong with this -

LOL, I am only a fan of cleavage on the WEATHER CHANNEL!!:rolleyes:

I agree that it's the people who are screwing up the world. I just have a problem with the way she delivers the news and the little snarky thing she does at the end. I know she has to do the Olbermann thing too-be a little over dramatic too!

IF you want the truth?

She reminds me too much of my knuckleheaded sister- They both could use a little more makeup- I dislike the mortuary approved generic spatula applied makeup. She is attractive but it's her manner that bugs me-My sis is very snarky, I WANT COLOR IN MY NEWREADERS!.:D

P.S. I did look at the nude SP painting, that would tell me more about the Bush Doctrine.

[lizbud]

LOL

So much for an impartial moderator at the veep debate.




So much for a non biased website. The WND site is a hoot.:D

[sparks19]

So much for a non biased website. The WND site is a hoot.:D

That was already addressed :) and is why a link to her book was also posted :D

[Grace]

George Stephanopolous moderated a debate between Obama and Hillary Clinton and he once WORKED for Bill . Did that upset anyone posting in this thread?

[lizbud]

That was already addressed :) and is why a link to her book was also posted :D


I already know of her book. She's a Obama supporter in her private life.

She is not a political operative & can conduct a debate as well as any
other qualitied news person. She is also well regarded in her field.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And she writes about Colin Powell in her book. He worked for GWB! It is a right wing conspiracy run amuk! :D:D:D:D

[RICHARD]

I KNOW WHAT IT IS ABOUT RM.....

I just figured it out.....

She drops and tilts her head to the left.....That reminds me of some teachers I had.
They had the same thing doing...like to make a point. Check out the Uncle Sam "I WANT YOU!" posters....same thing!:eek::D

[Puckstop31]

I already know of her book. She's a Obama supporter in her private life.

She is not a political operative & can conduct a debate as well as any
other qualitied news person. She is also well regarded in her field.

But you cannot deny that she stands to make a profit from an Obama victory. Of course that won't bother YOU, but it bothers a lot of other people.

But in the end, I am prepared for an Obama victory. You lefties are going to get what you always wanted. Full control. Lets see what you can do with it. Ya think civil liberties are crapped on now??? LOL But with you guys it will be "for the children", so it will be OK...


<sigh>

[RICHARD]

"Can I call you Joe?"


LOLOLOLOLOLOL,
If Dick CHeney is evil,
Joe Biden is --------?

------------

Main streeters?
Out of touch?


I will be glad when this is all over and I don't hear some of the 'catch phrases'

When people endlessy slip those into a conversation, blog, commentary-it shows just how stupid and brainless they are.

Someone makes a comment with a 'secret password' in it and everyone begins to endlessly parrot the same darn thing over and over again.


-------

Kathleen Parker came out on MSNBC and was talking about the emails she has recieved from people regarding her 'rant' about SP and how she should step down.

Why do AH who conjure up a-holery in the media get bent when people go nuts over what they post/write/submit?

They have freedom of speech and should put a little thought into the responsibility that goes along with it. Make stupid statements/write a column?
You made it, stand by it and take ownership, KP is another cow that starts to make noise when she thinks she needs to be milked.:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/sandra-bernhardt-gets-away-with-racist-anti-palin-tirade/2/

This is precious.

And it is very true.:rolleyes:

I Love when people spew politically incorrect trash talk, then mention that they were taken out of context.

I guess a candidate and the people who raise funds for them really don't care what happens as long as they pick up a few bucks for their candidate. I love my freedom of speech-and I cannot say it enough-with the responsibility that goes along with it.

Now, If I say that Bernhardt is a hack, white loser biatch and so nasty that no sane man would want to engage in any kind of interaction with her, that earns me a woman hating, misogynistic, racist AH card, RIGHT?

So what.

She gets really does get a pass for being mean spirited, doesn't she?

Well, like the other slimeballs mentioned in the article, they are serious but, we should turn a cheek to SB because it's part performance, comedy, schtick and earns money for her!

I love that about America. We toss out overthought outrage over some fat, drug abusing mouthpiece on the radio, then give a skinny, ugly woman abusing mouthpiece on stage a free pass.

I hope the Republican ticket does win, again, for the simple fact that I am not willing to see a bunch of hate mongering, politically incorrect morons become unemployed. God help us when people like Bill Maher, Bernhardt, Michael Moore and Maureen Dowd go jobless.

The GOP probably ain't no better, But I would rather be associated with a group that is THOUGHT to be incorrect with their views about life in the Air Age than with a group that says what is on their minds, back tracks when they are confronted, then bask in the support-or nonjudgement- from their peers.

Sometimes it's better to align yourself with the people who may be phony than it is with the people who jump right out there and talk smack under the freedom bestowed by the history of performing arts.

The not-so-attractive, malnourished, unkept, foul mouthed disgrace to women is another ideal that I don't have to worry about. I am a man and really don't and wouldn't care what Bernhardt says or does-I am amazed that noone has come forth to say anything about the content of her comments.

Where are Jackson and Sharpton in all this? Isn't that a stereotype regarding black men in New York? Where are the rape centers calling for some kind boycott against her shows for suggesting rape against women? Where is the mayor of the town, decrying the portrayal of the area?

Yep, SP may not be the brightest star in political heaven, but she stands head and shoulders when compared to a woman who has the charm of a 10 dollar hooker, the looks of a starving third world gal and the mouth.......well,
I have used the pit toilets at campsites that were far more appealing and friendly than this gal's oral cavity.

------------

Please god-
I would love nothing better than to have the GOP ticket win the election. I
love the discourse, discomfort, snapping teeth and jaws of the jackals who
turn politics into venom so powerful, it rots the soul from their chests, the sanity from their minds and any type of humanity from their being.

Of course, If the Dems win, I will be a good loser, I'll continue to live in the country, pay taxes and dream the American dream. I will harbor no malice in my heart.

We have lost our humility, sense of right and common courtesy.

But hey!

We still have porn, guns, gambling, cheap alcohol and stupid comedians, so all is not lost!

AMEN.;)

[lizbud]

Wow. such venom. :eek: You must be a deeply unhappy guy.:(


Cheer up Richard. Just think, in another 4 or so years, we get to do it all again.:)

[RICHARD]

Wow. such venom. :eek: You must be a deeply unhappy guy.:(




Are you taking me out of context? You can't use the term venom, I used it first.

Actually, I am pretty happy at the moment. As a matter of fact, I am very happy.

So what did you think about SB and her comments? I can see that you choose to comment on my outlook and ignore her "unhappiness".

I didn't advocate any personal assault/sex crime on SB. I did make some comments about her looks, her mouth and attitude.

So what?

I am the unhappy one? What about Randi Rhodes-former mouth piece of Air America-

"Geraldine Ferraro turned out to be David Duke in drag ... What a wh*** Geraldine Ferraro is! She's such a f*****g wh***! I wanna see her have to stand beside her husband at one of those mandatory 'I have sinned against you; I'm a w***e' kind of a press conference. Mr. Ferraro should have to stand next to his wh*** of a wife ... Hillary is a big f***** wh***, too. You know why she's a big f****** wh***? Because her deal is always, 'Read the fine print, a*****e!'"

Stephanie Miller and her comments on her 'comedy' show?
Rachel Madcow and her wacky bent on issues?

These 'ladies' are touted as hosts on a 'progressive' media network. This is progress?

Let's not forget Ann Coulter and her F@g comment?

Thank you for calling me 'unhappy' for my comments. I really don't know where that puts me on the scale compared to the fine talents I mentioned before.

Golly Gosh! (That's my main street persona talking! ;)) If I am unhappy, the puckey that comes out of the mouths of those babes must reek of bile, sulfur and rotten garbage.

Unhappiness suits me just fine, I couldn't imagine living as a miserable hate filled woman for the rest of my life.

----------

MY posts are hyperbole and not to be taken seriously. I do stand by them and have no control over perception or how they are interpreted by the gentle reader.

[Lady's Human]

Just think, in another 4 or so years, we get to do it all again.

Great, Liz, just when I was looking forward to this ending, you remind me we have to go through it all again.

And it won't be in four years.......The hopeful primary candidates will start runnig right after the mid-terms.......if they wait that long.

[Puckstop31]

A little something about hockey moms...

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=384038

A little of both "sides".

[RICHARD]

HEY!
SP was in So Cal yesterday for a fundraiser in Carson, CA!

I was really excited so I planned accordingly.

I stayed home an watched sports all day!

IT was raining!:rolleyes:

[Grace]

HEY!

I stayed home an watched sports all day!

IT was raining!:rolleyes:

Which sports? Football, baseball, both - maybe a bit of hockey thrown in for good measure?

[sparks19]

Which sports? Football, baseball, both - maybe a bit of hockey thrown in for good measure?

So did we... well Brian did. He watched football, baseball and we would have watched hockey but the second game wasn't available for local viewing... which is Bull lol... we pay $140 for center ice and can't get the game lol. At least we can watch the games today. but the football (college) and baseball were almost enough to lull me to sleep lol.

[Grace]

So did we... well Brian did. He watched football, baseball and we would have watched hockey but the second game wasn't available for local viewing... which is Bull lol... we pay $140 for center ice and can't get the game lol. At least we can watch the games today. but the football (college) and baseball were almost enough to lull me to sleep lol.

Which 2nd game? It's pre-season now, and I don't think Center Ice goes into effect until the season starts for real.

We had the game from Stockholm, but there are some pre-season that we're not getting. And if they really wanted the Swedes to come out, they should have sent the Wings over - we have 7, or 8, or maybe 9 Swedes now. The King was in Michigan a week or so ago, and had a get-together with the Swedish Wings.

[sparks19]

Which 2nd game? It's pre-season now, and I don't think Center Ice goes into effect until the season starts for real.

We had the game from Stockholm, but there are some pre-season that we're not getting. And if they really wanted the Swedes to come out, they should have sent the Wings over - we have 7, or 8, or maybe 9 Swedes now. The King was in Michigan a week or so ago, and had a get-together with the Swedish Wings.

We got the Rangers/Lightning game in Prague... but we didn't get the Penguins/Sens game in Stockholm. for some reason we could watch one but not the other lol. LAME. Yeah Center Ice doesn't show pre season games... which kinda stinks

[Puckstop31]

SWEEEETTTTTT.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10062008/news/nationalnews/homeless_driven_to_vote_obama_132395.htm

[blue]

"I never voted before," Woods said, because of a felony conviction that previously barred him from the polls. "Without this service, I would have had no way to get here."

What happenned, I thought felons could not vote period?

[RICHARD]

I have to laugh about Bruce Springsteen and his acoustic concert he did at a political rally the other day.

I never really followed the "Boss". I have one of his albums and he has three songs that I liked.

I never went to any of his concerts-he's one of those 'sincere' rockers that I didn't find that entertaining.

----------

Tim Russert, the recently deceased news anchor/host, was a huge fan of BS's
and met him on one occasion. TR had invited him to go on his show for an interview. BS told Russert that he didn't want to get involved with a 'political'
TV show, and turned him down.

On the tribure show for TR one of the guests said that Russert was disappointed by BS and his refusal to participate.


At a concert soon after TR's death SpringSPLEEN dedicated a song to Russert, "Born in the U.S.A.'

BS appearance at this political rally made me laugh at the "phonyness" of a person who would turn down a chance to sit down with one of the brightest news personalities of our time-just to show up at a gathering for some political buffoons afterwards.

Moron.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Let's pretend I am a chef. World famous chef.

I listen to music and there is music I like very much and music I don't like. I can't read or write music and don't know a chord from a note. But I know what I enjoy and what I don't.

There is a man with an outstanding tv show about music. He and his guest are all very involved in music. He invites me to be a guest on his tv show. I decline because I do not feel I am qualified to discuss music the way they do. I am a chef, not a musician.

Later, I cook dinner for one of my favorite musicians.

Does that make me a buffon? Or a phony?

Or much smarter than a moron?

[blue]

Let's pretend I am a chef. World famous chef.

I listen to music and there is music I like very much and music I don't like. I can't read or write music and don't know a chord from a note. But I know what I enjoy and what I don't.

There is a man with an outstanding tv show about music. He and his guest are all very involved in music. He invites me to be a guest on his tv show. I decline because I do not feel I am qualified to discuss music the way they do. I am a chef, not a musician.

Later, I cook dinner for one of my favorite musicians.



I dont see the coralation.

[RICHARD]

I dont see the coralation.

ME either. It must be the fork I shoved my eye and knife in my ear.:eek:

[Edwina's Secretary]

Of course neither of you see the "coralation" although I have no idea what that word means.

And if neither of you sees the correlation either....what can I say? Did I use too big of words?

[Puckstop31]

Of course neither of you see the "coralation" although I have no idea what that word means.

And if neither of you sees the correlation either....what can I say? Did I use too big of words?

How can she get away with this kind of crap when I cannot?

<sigh>

[blue]

Of course neither of you see the "coralation" although I have no idea what that word means.

And if neither of you sees the correlation either....what can I say? Did I use too big of words?

Perhaps its because you used a bad analogy?

[RICHARD]

How can she get away with this kind of crap when I cannot?

<sigh>

Help me get this fork outta my eye and I might be able to explain it to you?
;)


Talk about mean spirited!

[blue]

Help me get this fork outta my eye and I might be able to explain it to you?
;)


Talk about mean spirited!

Where I come from its


Spork, Neck, Curb.

Now that is mean spirited.

[sparks19]

How can she get away with this kind of crap when I cannot?

<sigh>

Because she is passive aggressive :)

that's why. If you disguise you retorts as being a "friendly question" you can get away with it :D

Surround yourself with flowers and you will smell good despite no deodorant :)

[blue]

Of course neither of you see the "coralation" although I have no idea what that word means.

And if neither of you sees the correlation either....what can I say? Did I use too big of words?

I appologise for my bad spelling.


7 dictionary results for: correlation
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
cor·re·la·tion [kawr-uh-ley-shuhn, kor-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. mutual relation of two or more things, parts, etc.
2. the act of correlating or state of being correlated.
3. Statistics. the degree to which two or more attributes or measurements on the same group of elements show a tendency to vary together.
4. Physiology. the interdependence or reciprocal relations of organs or functions.
5. Geology. the demonstrable equivalence, in age or lithology, of two or more stratigraphic units, as formations or members of such.

I hope this helps your confusion.

[RICHARD]

Surround yourself with flowers and you will smell good despite no deodorant :)

Don't stand,
Don't stand,
Don't stand, so close to me!:)

[blue]

Don't stand,
Don't stand,
Don't stand, so close to me!:)

Good song, sub par bass player IMO.

[RICHARD]

Let's pretend I am a chef. World famous chef.

I listen to music and there is music I like very much and music I don't like. I can't read or write music and don't know a chord from a note. But I know what I enjoy and what I don't.

Does that make me a buffon? Or a phony?

Or much smarter than a moron?



After further review....


It would make you Emeril Lagasse. Now you just have to find Doc Gibbs.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I appologise for my bad spelling.


I'd keep that dictionary close by!

[blue]

I'd keep that dictionary close by!

Dictionary.com is on my Opera Speed Dial on this comp.

[lizbud]

Interesting question of fact that I read today. What political candidates,
now running for Prez & Vice Prez ,have been charged & found guilty of ethics
violations by their respective bodies of government?

Answer: John McCain & Sarah Palin. It's true. McCain by Congress & Palin
by the Alaska Legislature.

[blue]

Im well versed on the Palin Troopergate fiasco, but could you expound on McCains ethics violation please?

[lizbud]

Im well versed on the Palin Troopergate fiasco, but could you expound on McCains ethics violation please?



Just look up The Keating 5 Scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

[Lady's Human]

It's a damned shame the investigation sinto ACORN and voter fraud won't be complete before the elections.

Dallas Cowboys registered to vote in NV, 40,000 felons registered in FL, Dead people registered and voting from the grave.....

[blue]

Just look up The Keating 5 Scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

From the article you linked.


Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

[lizbud]

From the article you linked.


McCain was censored for lack of ethics & lack of judgement. He had to
get on his knees and beg to keep his job.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/24/john-mccains-keating-five_n_128807.html

[blue]

McCain was censored for lack of ethics & lack of judgement. He had to
get on his knees and beg to keep his job.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/24/john-mccains-keating-five_n_128807.html

You couldnt find a less biased website as a source? Your second link showwed nothing in the way of him being censored or begging to keep his job.

Try this one, source (http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/mccain/articles/2007/03/01/20070301mccainbio-chapter7.html).


In the end, McCain received only a mild rebuke from the Ethics Committee for exercising "poor judgment" for intervening with the federal regulators on behalf of Keating. Still, he felt tarred by the affair.

"The appearance of it was wrong," McCain said. "It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."

McCain noted that Bennett, the independent counsel, recommended that McCain and Glenn be dropped from the investigation.

[Puckstop31]

Mickey is a Democrat? Who knew?

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/article852295.ece


I wonder why we don't hear more about ACORN? Oh wait... I know. LOL

[Puckstop31]

"Investigators probing ACORN have learned that an Ohio man registered to vote several times and cast a bogus ballot with a fake address, officials said yesterday, as they revealed that nearly 4,000 registration applications supplied by the left-leaning activist group were suspect. "

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm



"Teenager Freddie Johnson said he was offered smokes and dollar bills to fill out voter registration cards. "

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1223973289273860.xml&coll=2



And of course.... BO "distances" himself from ANOTHER shady "friend".

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394051071230749.html?mod=djemEditorialPage



BO has a clear lead. Why does all this need to happen? OR, if he really has nothing to do with it, condemn it.

[RICHARD]

From ACORN grow mighty OAFS.
:rolleyes:

If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny.


MORONS.

[blue]

Screw it, Im tired of the stupid sh!7 from both campaigns. Im back to my original plan, NObama, No McSame.

Voting Libertarian Party for POTUS and, AIP for everything else.

[Edwina's Secretary]

When we were relocated to SoCal four years ago I wanted to register to vote. There was a stand outside the grocery store. I asked if I could register even though I as yet had nothing to show I lived in California.

No problem.

I began filing out the paperwork. I checked Independent. The man working the registration told me no, I had to register as Republican. I told him I had been registered to vote since my 18th birthday and had never registered for any party.

He replied he would not get paid unless I registered as a Republican.

I guess he did not get paid.

Later I saw in the news some fuss about it.

Shenanigans in voter registration is as old as dirt and is not the sole preserve of any party!

But when you are desparate....

[Puckstop31]

Any party paying people to try and register FIRST time voters? No problem.


Paying people to register people, multiple times? Dead people? Felons? Not so much.

Mickey Mouse? Come on. LOL At least put SOME effort into it.

ETA - I do agree with you however that voter registration fraud is not the domain of any one party. All the more reason to wipe the slate clean!!! Vote for ANYbody other than either of these clowns. Send the message that we are done with the parties dividing us.

[JenBKR]

When we were relocated to SoCal four years ago I wanted to register to vote. There was a stand outside the grocery store. I asked if I could register even though I as yet had nothing to show I lived in California.

No problem.

I began filing out the paperwork. I checked Independent. The man working the registration told me no, I had to register as Republican. I told him I had been registered to vote since my 18th birthday and had never registered for any party.

He replied he would not get paid unless I registered as a Republican.

I guess he did not get paid.

Later I saw in the news some fuss about it.

Shenanigans in voter registration is as old as dirt and is not the sole preserve of any party!

But when you are desparate....

Whoa...now that's a bit much. I think that would make me want to register for the other party! Hopefully he got in trouble for that one. Guess I should be glad that I registered to vote in the computer era, where I was able to do it online. ;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Hopefully he got in trouble for that one.

There was a bit of a fuss in the newspaper for a while about how voter registration was being done but I don't think anything came of it. That is just how things are done here in SoCal I guess!

[lizbud]

Voter registration fraud is quite different then voter fraud. Nobody really
expects Mickey Mouse to actually show up to vote do they?

[Puckstop31]

Voter registration fraud is quite different then voter fraud. Nobody really
expects Mickey Mouse to actually show up to vote do they?

LOL. Keep dancing. You are missing the point. Why don't ya google it and figure it out?

I'll help.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93R8IE00&show_article=1

[RICHARD]

Dallas Cowboys registered to vote in NV,

They can read a playbook, but geography may not be a strong suit.;)


The only thing that really pulls me into this year of politics is the Health Care issues.

Let me tell you, gentle reader, that if you want to get totally screwed if you get sick, vote for the idiot who wants to nationalize health care.

There will be blood, when and if the government takes over the HC system.
People should look to the idiots driving the bus to reform the system, not take it over.

The level of care will suffer and the statement about getting the same level of care that either one of those two gets, as members of the Senate, makes me want to pull down my pants to clear the smoke from my crotch.

You won't get anywhere near the care or facilities they enjoy. Matter of fact,
the health plan that I worked for encouraged the "partners" -doctors and the patients were 'customers' - not to order diagnostic screening like x-rays, blood tests and other tests.

If you hate to see people dying in facilities waiting to see a physician, wait for socialized HC, 12 hour ER room visits will be the norm.

Pack a lunch, sweater and War and Peace. You might get over your illness before you see a doctor.

On second thought, make out a will while you wait,.:rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

How fascinating RICHARD that you know what the medical care system would be like under a single payer system as opposed to the system we currently have.

I again bring up the statistic that our system is 37th in the world in care, #1 in cost.

I just finished the medical benefit renewal for a client of mine. They are a small, strugglng manufacturing company in LA County.

Thanks to an outstanding broker we were able to bring it in at a 6% increase. Family coverage is $1,434 a month.

It is not a top plan -- middle of the pack I'd say. We did that by carving out some things -- employees will have to pay more. And both the company and the employees will pay 6% more than they are paying now.

I find it interesting that so many other countries can figure out a way to go to a single payer system and provide better care than we do. I have more faith in the people of the United States than to say we cannot do what others have done.

(And those who are going to respond with anecdotal experience of bad service in other countries -- I am sure there are service issue. But here too. How many people have died in waiting rooms this year?)

[RICHARD]

What?

I find it interesting that someone is interested in the interesting costs of having a HC system interested in giving a person coverage at just under 1500 dollars, without having to pay interest,

I guess it is true what people say about reading comprehension.

Some people get it.

----------

If you are interested about costs and numbers.....37, 1, 25 or 6 two four?
Look into what med implants cost. And why they cost so much. Then find a few salespeople to speak to.

With apologies to all who have relatives in that field-Most of them are greedy AHs with the soul of a gnat, they have no qualms about getting a contract at any means and will literally try to tell you that the sun sets in the east.

[Randi]

All I'll say about this is that I'm happy to pay a higher tax and know that everyone in Denmark can be treated for free in a hospital, and of course go to a doctor free of charge. We do pay some for dental visits, though.

This is how our system works: http://www.im.dk/publikationer/healthcare_in_dk/all.htm

[RICHARD]

All I'll say about this is that I'm happy to pay a higher tax and know that everyone in Denmark can be treated for free in a hospital, and of course go to a doctor free of charge. We do pay some for dental visits, though.

This is how our system works: http://www.im.dk/publikationer/healthcare_in_dk/all.htm

The HC system here in the US is very costly because of the laws, the lawsuits and the beliefs - propagated by stupid TV shows - that you can have a pill or procedure that will cure you of everything.

----------

I have used this example time and time again.

A stainless steel screw, used to fix fractures in bones, can cost around 50-60 dollars. THat was a few years ago. Because the screw has a special bit to insert it and a special thread the costs go up because the facility has to purchase or rent a special drill to use. Then the costs to keep that driver in service are another consideration.

For sixty dollars you can purchase a few boxes of stainless steel screws at a home repair center.

There are tons of costs related to the screw. Research and development, manufacturing, insurance and ???? Many people will RUN to a lawyer and in some cases rightly so, should a medical device fail or not work.

On TV there are regular ads from lawyers that ask, 'if you took X medicine, or had X treatment and your loved one died or is still ill, call our office, you may be eligible for a cash settlement for you pain and suffering...."

It makes me think of people getting paid to be ill, as sucky as that sounds-

Malpractice is another consideration, but why would a doctor make mistakes like that?

IT's a mess and money has a great deal to do with it.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The HC system here in the US is very costly because of the laws, the lawsuits and the beliefs - propagated by stupid TV shows - that you can have a pill or procedure that will cure you of everything.


What an attempt at a vast oversimplification of a very complex issue. There are lots of things that make our health care system the most expensive.

And anyone who doesn't think it is already "socialized" is not looking at the big picture. Group insurance is a form of socialization. Every time someone in the plan gets medical treatment -- everyone in the plan indirectly pays. Every time you buy goods or services you are paying for the medical care of the employees involved in the entire chain of production.

I think $16,800 to pay for medical insurance for a family (3 or more people in the family) is expensive. Add on to that deductibles and co-pays.

If you could buy that coverage -- if not provided by your employer -- it would be closer to $20,000 a year. If you could get it. Every been prescribed an anti-depressant? You probably are uninsurable. Any cancer, asthma, heart murmur in your medical history? Most likely uninsurable.

There is a whole lot of greed to go around. Drug companies, medical providers, medical devise companies, lawyers, and patients.

But assigning blame or whining about what is wrong doesn't do much toward correcting the situation! And it needs correcting. I would like to see the U.S. move up to maybe...15th?

[RICHARD]

What an attempt at a vast oversimplification of a very complex issue. There are lots of things that make our health care system the most expensive.

But assigning blame or whining about what is wrong doesn't do much toward correcting the situation! And it needs correcting. I would like to see the U.S. move up to maybe...15th?


Bone density scans can be done on a skull.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Bone density scans can be done on a skull.

You've been out of the business for a while RICHARD. Things may have changed.

[RICHARD]

I have a grand time reading thu a post that just lists costs of insurance without really knowing WHAT GOES INTO THOSE COSTS AND WHY HC premiums are out of sight.

It's like assigning blame and whining about an issue without ever knowing why costs are out of hand. Ignorance is bliss, market it and you can outsell alcohol.

Tell me about the annual costs for HC and I'll tell you why they cost so much.
Your whining about the money part of it shows the ignorance of lay people to look into the whys and hows of HC and the cost to the public.

Next time you need medical care, pull out a 20 dollar bill, soak it in alcohol and rub it on the affected area.

THat is the way that people view HC, it's all about money. Tell a person WHY it costs so much and you may make an impression.

People get mad when you take money from theiir wallets.

Tell people why you are doing it and they understand and just may want to get involved with a cause.


Giving discount HC premiums to folks who may need the "full monty' would make me sleep well at night.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have a grand time reading thu a post that just lists costs of insurance without really knowing WHAT GOES INTO THOSE COSTS AND WHY HC premiums are out of sight.

It's like assigning blame and whining about an issue without ever knowing why costs are out of hand. Ignorance is bliss, market it and you can outsell alcohol.

Tell me about the annual costs for HC and I'll tell you why they cost so much.
Your whining about the money part of it shows the ignorance of lay people to look into the whys and hows of HC and the cost to the public.

Next time you need medical care, pull out a 20 dollar bill, soak it in alcohol and rub it on the affected area.

THat is the way that people view HC, it's all about money. Tell a person WHY it costs so much and you may make an impression.

People get mad when you take money from theiir wallets.

Tell people why you are doing it and they understand and just may want to get involved with a cause.


Giving discount HC premiums to folks who may need the "full monty' would make me sleep well at night.


And you are not a lay person? Oh please RICHARD. So now you are an expert in the complex issue of the cost of healthcare...because once upon a time you worked in a hospital? Just because I work in a munitions factory does not make me a military expert!

But there you have it once again...everyone except you is stupid and ignorant.

[RICHARD]

Selliing someone HC coverage and not having any idea of WHY it costs so much is hilarious.


People shrug their shoulders and get the coverage because they need it, they sign the check and never ask why.

Reminds me of the home loan crisis. Every AH that sold a house was only interested in their bottom line-nothing else.

You can't tell a client why their coverage will cover some things and not others. You may as well stick a knife in your neck.

It's bad salesmanship and the truth does not make for giving people a basic, if not inflated, sense of physical well being.

---------

Again,
Don't bother with my posts, It's hard to understand what I say thru the seat of my pants. When I wear underwear it's more difficult.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Selliing someone HC coverage and not having any idea of WHY it costs so much is hilarious.


People shrug their shoulders and get the coverage because they need it, they sign the check and never ask why.

Reminds me of the home loan crisis. Every AH that sold a house was only interested in their bottom line-nothing else.

You can't tell a client why their coverage will cover some things and not others. You may as well stick a knife in your neck.

It's bad salesmanship and the truth does not make for giving people a basic, if not inflated, sense of physical well being.

---------

Again,
Don't bother with my posts, It's hard to understand what I say thru the seat of my pants. When I wear underwear it's more difficult.


For the record...I do not sell my clients insurance. Another reading comprehension problem? I help them buy the insurance coverage.
And from people who are far more knowledgable about group insurance than someone who once worked in a hospital!

Why it is you think NO ONE but you understands why medical insurance and medical care is so expensive?

[Puckstop31]

Initeresting commentary.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122420205889842989.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

"Americans voting for "change" should know they may get far more than they ever imagined."


BO as President? Fine. BO as President with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in charge of a filibuster proof Congress? :eek: You know, the Congress with the lowest approval ratings, EVER.


But, like I have said before.... We will get the government we deserve. The more we look to "Big Brother" to solve our problems... Well, we will get what we deserve.

[RICHARD]

Did anyone notice the crowd at that roast yesterday?

Did people stand up when JM approached the dais? I noticed that the 'unbiased' were knocking chairs over to give BO a standing O.

I really didn't pay attention to it because, as one commentator lamented, "People are losing their homes, jobs and money and these two are joking about it.

I did catch the clip of JM on the Less-than-man Show and the look on Dave's face when JM told him he was going to pay more in taxes.

ANd what is the "John", instead of "Senator" trip that everyone is on?

I can hardly wait to see Dave falling over himself to interview Senator O-blah-ma:rolleyes:

[Puckstop31]

A good speech by JM. Still not voting for him, but he says the things that need to be said. Still, if he could follow through with just half of this....


It's great to be here in Miami. Florida is a must-win state on November 4th, and with your help, we're going to win Florida, and bring change to Washington, DC. We had a good debate this week. You may have noticed-- there was a lot of talk about Senator Obama's tax increases and Joe the Plumber. Last weekend, Senator Obama showed up in Joe's driveway to ask for his vote, and Joe asked Senator Obama a tough question. I'm glad he did; I think Senator Obama could use a few more tough questions.

The response from Senator Obama and his campaign yesterday was to attack Joe. People are digging through his personal life and he has TV crews camped out in front of his house. He didn't ask for Senator Obama to come to his house. He wasn't recruited or prompted by our campaign. He just asked a question. And Americans ought to be able to ask Senator Obama tough questions without being smeared and targeted with political attacks.

The question Joe asked about our economy is important, because Senator Obama's plan would raise taxes on small businesses that employ 16 million Americans. Senator Obama's plan will kill those jobs at just the time when we need to be creating more jobs. My plan will create jobs, and that's what America needs.

Senator Obama says that he wanted to spread your wealth around. When politicians talk about taking your money and spreading it around, you'd better hold onto your wallet. Senator Obama claims that wants to give a tax break to the middle class, but not only did he vote for higher taxes on the middle class in the Senate, his plan gives away your tax dollars to those who don't pay taxes.

That's not a tax cut, that's welfare. America didn't become the greatest nation on earth by redistributing wealth; we became the greatest nation by creating new wealth.

This is the choice that we face. These are hard times. Our economy is in crisis. Americans are fighting in two wars. We face many enemies in this dangerous world, and many challenges here at home.

The next President won't have time to get used to the office. He won't have the luxury of studying up on the issues before he acts. He will have to act immediately. And to do that, he will need experience, courage, judgment and a bold plan of action to take this country in a new direction. We cannot spend the next four years as we have spent much of the last eight: waiting for our luck to change. We have to act immediately. I said it at the last debate: I'm not George Bush; if Senator Obama wants to run against George Bush, he should have run for President 4 years ago. We need a new direction now. We have to fight for it. I've been fighting for this country since I was seventeen years old, and I have the scars to prove it. If I'm elected President, I will fight to take America in a new direction from my first day in office until my last. I'm not afraid of the fight, I'm ready for it.

I'm not going to spend $700 billion dollars of your money just bailing out the Wall Street bankers and brokers who got us into this mess. I'm going to make sure we take care of the people who were devastated by the excesses of Wall Street and Washington. I'm going to spend a lot of that money to bring relief to you, and I'm not going to wait sixty days to start doing it.

I have a plan to protect the value of your home and get it rising again by buying up bad mortgages and refinancing them so if your neighbor defaults he doesn't bring down the value of your house with him.

I have a plan to let retirees and people nearing retirement keep their money in their retirement accounts longer so they can rebuild their savings. I will protect Social Security so that retirees get the benefits they have earned, and I will bring both parties together to fix Social Security so that it is there for future generations.

I have a plan to hold the line on taxes and cut them to make America more competitive and create jobs here at home.

Raising taxes makes a bad economy much worse. Keeping taxes low creates jobs, keeps money in your hands and strengthens our economy.

The explosion of government spending over the last eight years has put us deeper in debt to foreign countries that don't have our best interests at heart. It weakened the dollar and made everything you buy more expensive.

If I'm elected President, I won't spend nearly a trillion dollars more of your money, on top of the $700 billion we just gave the Treasury Secretary, as Senator Obama proposes. Because he can't do that without raising your taxes or digging us further into debt. I'm going to make government live on a budget just like you do.

I will freeze government spending on all but the most important programs like defense, veterans care, Social Security and health care until we scrub every single government program and get rid of the ones that aren't working for the American people. And I will veto every single pork barrel bill Congresses passes.

If I'm elected President, I won't fine small businesses and families with children, as Senator Obama proposes, to force them into a new huge government run health care program, while he keeps the cost of the fine a secret until he hits you with it. I will bring down the skyrocketing cost of health care with competition and choice to lower your premiums, and make it more available to more Americans. I'll make sure you can keep the same health plan if you change jobs or leave a job to stay home.

I will provide every single American family with a $5000 refundable tax credit to help them purchase insurance. Workers who already have health care insurance from their employers will keep it and have more money to cover costs. Workers who don't have health insurance can use it to find a policy anywhere in this country to meet their basic needs.

If I'm elected President, I won't raise taxes on small businesses, as Senator Obama proposes, and force them to cut jobs. I will keep small business taxes where they are, help them keep their costs low, and let them spend their earnings to create more jobs.

If I'm elected President, I won't meet unconditionally with the Castro brothers, while they keep political prisoners in jail, stifle free media and block free elections in Cuba. When I am President, we are going to pressure the Cuban government to free their people. The day is coming when Cuba will be free. I will open new markets to goods made in America and make sure our trade is free and fair. And I'll make sure we help workers who've lost a job that won't come back find a new one that won't go away.

If I'm elected President, I won't make it harder to sell our goods overseas and kill more jobs as Senator Obama proposes. I will open new markets to goods made in America and make sure our trade is free and fair. And I'll make sure we help workers who've lost a job that won't come back find a new one that won't go away.

The last President to raise taxes and restrict trade in a bad economy as Senator Obama proposes was Herbert Hoover. That turned a recession into a depression. They say those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. Well, my friends, I know my history lessons, and I sure won't make the mistakes Senator Obama will.

If I'm elected President, we're going to stop sending $700 billion to countries that don't like us very much. I won't argue to delay drilling for more oil and gas and building new nuclear power plants in America, as Senator Obama does. We will start new drilling now. We will invest in all energy alternativesÊ-- nuclear, wind, solar, and tide. We will encourage the manufacture of hybrid, flex fuel and electric automobiles. We will invest in clean coal technology. We will lower the cost of energy within months, and we will create millions of new jobs.

Let me give you the state of the race today. We have 18 days to go. We're 6 points down. The national media has written us off. Senator Obama is measuring the drapes, and planning with Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid to raise taxes, increase spending, take away your right to vote by secret ballot in labor elections, and concede defeat in Iraq. But they forgot to let you decide. My friends, we've got them just where we want them.

What America needs in this hour is a fighter; someone who puts all his cards on the table and trusts the judgment of the American people. I come from a long line of McCains who believed that to love America is to fight for her. I have fought for you most of my life. There are other ways to love this country, but I've never been the kind to do it from the sidelines.

I know you're worried. America is a great country, but we are at a moment of national crisis that will determine our future. Will we continue to lead the world's economies or will we be overtaken? Will the world become safer or more dangerous? Will our military remain the strongest in the world? Will our children and grandchildren's future be brighter than ours?

My answer to you is yes. Yes, we will lead. Yes, we will prosper. Yes, we will be safer. Yes, we will pass on to our children a stronger, better country. But we must be prepared to act swiftly, boldly, with courage and wisdom.

I know what fear feels like. It's a thief in the night who robs your strength. I know what hopelessness feels like. It's an enemy who defeats your will. I felt those things once before. I will never let them in again. I'm an American. And I choose to fight.

Don't give up hope. Be strong. Have courage. And fight.

Fight for a new direction for our country. Fight for what's right for America. Fight to clean up the mess of corruption, infighting and selfishness in Washington.

Fight to get our economy out of the ditch and back in the lead.

Fight for the ideals and character of a free people.

Fight for our children's future.

Fight for justice and opportunity for all.

Stand up to defend our country from its enemies.

Stand up, stand up, stand up and fight. America is worth fighting for. Nothing is inevitable here. We never give up. We never quit. We never hide from history. We make history.

Now, let's go win this election and get this country moving again.

[lizbud]

Did anyone notice the crowd at that roast yesterday?

Did people stand up when JM approached the dais? I noticed that the 'unbiased' were knocking chairs over to give BO a standing O.

I really didn't pay attention to it because, as one commentator lamented, "People are losing their homes, jobs and money and these two are joking about it.

I did catch the clip of JM on the Less-than-man Show and the look on Dave's face when JM told him he was going to pay more in taxes.

ANd what is the "John", instead of "Senator" trip that everyone is on?

I can hardly wait to see Dave falling over himself to interview Senator O-blah-ma:rolleyes:


A bitter pill to swallow hey, Richard. LOL.:D Better get a bigger glass of water.:D

[RICHARD]

A bitter pill to swallow hey, Richard. LOL.:D Better get a bigger glass of water.:D


What are you talking about?

Merely observational tidbits. I do wat humble pie every once in a while, It's not bad for me and teaches me to read the menu a little closer.

Everyone should try some, It really won't kill you.

--------

This from St Louis.

"I won't give tax breaks to people who don't work,
I'll give the tax breaks to people who do work...."


Uh, If you don't work you don't pay taxes.

[sasvermont]

Well, Colin Powell just endorsed Obama on Meet the Press! I think this is the final nail in the McCain/Palin coffins.

I know, some folks are going to say it is an ethnic vote, African American/black endorsing African American/black. Both men are not 100% AA.

I think I may not have to move from the USA in November, as threatened. I have time to wait, and there is still a possibility that the outcome will be different than what I hoped for, but ..... we shall see.

Note to self: Cancel the moving company for November.....

;)

[Catty1]

Sas - I have a rollaway cot that can tide you over! :D

[lizbud]

Well, Colin Powell just endorsed Obama on Meet the Press! I think this is the final nail in the McCain/Palin coffins.

I know, some folks are going to say it is an ethnic vote, African American/black endorsing African American/black. Both men are not 100% AA.

I think I may not have to move from the USA in November, as threatened. I have time to wait, and there is still a possibility that the outcome will be different than what I hoped for, but ..... we shall see.

Note to self: Cancel the moving company for November.....

;)


:):) I tuned in to the program, just as he made that announcment. Didn't
see the whole interview, but I'll check it out later on the news website.

[lizbud]

Just saw the entire interview. Wow.:) It was a very well thought out
opinion and given flawlessly by Colin Powell. I believe there are many other
well respected Republicans who agree with him. Great interview. Links
here.........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27265369/

[RICHARD]

Well, Colin Powell just endorsed Obama on Meet the Press! I think this is the final nail in the McCain/Palin coffins.

I know, some folks are going to say it is an ethnic vote, African American/black endorsing African American/black. Both men are not 100% AA.



So CP's endorsement is worth what?

One vote? His own?

To even suggest that it's an "ethnic thing" smacks of a little "Racecardism".
Everyone screams about it when they THINK some makes a statement that might be racist, But it's quite O.K. to come out suggest it and then bring in BO's and CP's background.


Amazing.

[caseysmom]

Thanks for posting that Lizbud I have always respected Colin Powel he is a very intelligent man and now he can be an ally to Obama to help mend our relations with the world...its all good.

[lizbud]

Thanks for posting that Lizbud I have always respected Colin Powel he is a very intelligent man and now he can be an ally to Obama to help mend our relations with the world...its all good.



Actually, Cp is a man I would have crossed party lines to vote for as Prez.:)

(not in this election, but in previous campaigns)

[RICHARD]

Actually, Cp is a man I would have crossed party lines to vote for as Prez.:)



Me too, because he seems to have a little more substance than one of the current choices, but he also has goals.

CP's endorsement comes late in the game and has to be looked at as a push for a cabinet slot. No problem there. We have already had men and women as SofS and they have made some in roads for our foreign policy. CP won't make that much of a dent or a difference. Now, if he was GORT- from the Day the Earth Stood Still-I'd have to say he'd kick some foreign arse.

It's a slow news day when a retired military officer steals the news for his one vote for president.:confused:

[Edwina's Secretary]

This place is getting more fun by the minute! What a pity I have to go to work and miss some of it.

[Edwina's Secretary]

CP's endorsement comes late in the game and has to be looked at as a push for a cabinet slot.

Couldn't possibly be that he wanted to wait and see the debates...the candidates positions? Nah!


We have already had men and women as SofS and they have made some in roads for our foreign policy.

We have had men and women as Secretary of State???

As opposed to what? Cats and dogs??

[Puckstop31]

We have had men and women as Secretary of State???

As opposed to what? Cats and dogs??

Seriously?


This is all you can say to that? THAT is the context you see this in?

You are either really arrogant or really stupid.

Personally, I think you are very intelligent... WAY passive aggressive, but still intelligent. Why hide it? Just say what you mean and mean what you say. It's not like you ever fool anyone.

Most of the people who discuss here can do so without the bullcrap. I have admittedly failed recently and AM trying to "do better". I ask that you just stop with the passive aggessive thing. Pretty Please? Just play your cards straight up.

[RICHARD]

Dear Mean People Overseas,

Please send us a crisis to test the mettle of Barack Obama in the first six months of his presidency.

It's called On The Job Training.

Thank You.

[beeniesmom]

Dear Mean People Overseas,

Please send us a crisis to test the mettle of Barack Obama in the first six months of his presidency.

It's called On The Job Training.

Thank You.

Why would you wish something like that to the US? :eek:

[RICHARD]

Why would you wish something like that to the US? :eek:

Listen to what Joe Biden said earlier today. He said that people overseas would create a crisis in the first six months of BO's admin if he won the office.

I was just paraphrasing him. That is the stupidity of politics.

Send him an email about it.:rolleyes:

-------------------

I guess it sounds 'really stupider' when I say it. Of course, the media won't make such a huge deal about it anyway.

[RICHARD]

What was the deal with all the people hammering Baldwin and his SNL appearance?

I didn't see the SNL show, aside from the baldwin/palin/micheals skit-and then I saw 30 seconds of it.


Apparently some bloggers and libs are ticked off that AB didn't hammer SP on the show. He was too nice to her and it was too much humor for their pointed evil minds?

They said the he 'sold out' for doing the sketch with her.

And poor Tina Fake, she left the show and only got famous doing an impressions and skits that she didn't even create- she was hardly mentioned.

WOW!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Dear Mean People Overseas,

Please send us a crisis to test the mettle of Barack Obama in the first six months of his presidency.

It's called On The Job Training.

Thank You.


Wow! That is rather pathetic RICHARD!

[blue]

Wow! That is rather pathetic RICHARD!

Realy?


Mark my words, it will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.

Source. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html)

[RICHARD]

Realy?

Source. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html)



LOL,
Thanks, blue.

Like I said, it sounds "more stupider" when I say it. Send an email to the person who said it first. He's a leader. I am just a run-of-the-mill AH with no political ideals or desire to play second fiddle to a community organizer.

I like JB, He reminds me of the old man in CHRISTMAS VACATION.


And remember folks!

Reading is fundamental but comprehension will make you look decently intelligent!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Dear Mean People Overseas,

Please send us a crisis to test the mettle of Barack Obama in the first six months of his presidency.

It's called On The Job Training.

Thank You.

I realize you hate Obama, but I am still rather appalled that you want something bad to happen to the United States because of your hatred for Obama.

Oh well. True colors will out!

[RICHARD]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,441301,00.html

I wonder how the episode went over with the racists and rednecks in Pennsylvania?

Interesting.

[JenBKR]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,441301,00.html

I wonder how the episode went over with the racists and rednecks in Pennsylvania?

Interesting.

That show has always looked stupid to me so I have never watched it....since I am one of the racist rednecks in PA, perhaps I should be offended. I am more offended by John Murtha- http://www.gopusa.com/news/2008/october/1016_murtha_pa.shtml



Unless someone else called us hicks racist that I don't know about.....

[RICHARD]

Unless someone else called us hicks racist that I don't know about.....

I had to do a double take when I saw/heard the vid clip- I suppose he'll come back and say he was 'taken out of context'.:confused:

One thing that I have found disturbing is the Spanish language news coverage of the election.

Here in So Cal there are 7 cable channels in spanish and they have been running ads/psa spots for people to register to vote.

One station/channel is Univision, owned by NBC. NBC's slant is more toward electing the Democratic Party and their programming, aimed at the spanish speaking community, reflects it.

The news anchors always give a raving review of BO's poll leads, his public speeches and promises-and then begin the pleas to register to vote.

THere are many illegal aliens in the Southland and many of them believe that they do have a right to vote in the election. During those psa announcements they talk about a person's right to vote and never address the possibility that
the people registering may be committing a crime.

Another cause for concern is the registration, at such a late date for elections, does not give the local registrar ample time to verify information on the forms.

That, and the funny business with the ACORN organization, should be considered when setting deadlines for registering people for elections.

This is a mess that has a simple solution.:rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

You may remember my story about the Orange County Republicans registering voters outside grocery stores and accepting the validity of my registration without any proof of residence.

Of course, they were most unhappy when I insisted on registering Independent.

He did not tell me I might be committing a crime.

Does that give you as much concern as ACORN?

[jennielynn1970]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,441301,00.html

I wonder how the episode went over with the racists and rednecks in Pennsylvania?

Interesting.

Since when are rednecks and racists only in PA??

You want to expound on that comment, Sir Richard??

I'm not a redneck, and I am not racist.


Oh, and for the record, I happen to like Family Guy, if only for the musical montages they do. The humor on there is quite odd. I'd much rather watch Everybody Loves Raymond (on at the same time here, 11pm). I still don't get the talking dog and talking baby that wants to kill it's mother. It's a very odd show.

[JenBKR]

Since when are rednecks and racists only in PA??

You want to expound on that comment, Sir Richard??

I'm not a redneck, and I am not racist.


Oh, and for the record, I happen to like Family Guy, if only for the musical montages they do. The humor on there is quite odd. I'd much rather watch Everybody Loves Raymond (on at the same time here, 11pm). I still don't get the talking dog and talking baby that wants to kill it's mother. It's a very odd show.

I believe he is referring to the remark made by Murtha about western Pennsylvanians (see my earlier post with the link).

[jennielynn1970]

I saw your post, but his post, with comment, was before yours, and had the link for Family Guy.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Since when are rednecks and racists only in PA??




Oh no! There are racists in California too. Some people don't think Mexican immigrants are intelligent enough to know you must be a citizen to vote.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[JenBKR]

I saw your post, but his post, with comment, was before yours, and had the link for Family Guy.

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure where he was going with the Family Guy link...this IS Richard we are talking about!! ;):p

[RICHARD]

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure where he was going with the Family Guy link...this IS Richard we are talking about!! ;):p


LOL, just trying to jar some brain cells around and to see if anyone even paid attention to Murtha.

IT was a little joke, I was connecting the cartoon about JM and SP being the favorites for the Nazi party, as suggested by the guy that created Family Guy, and the comment by Murtha.

[Puckstop31]

It would seem Chicago is the second city no more... At least in some ways.

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.homicide.rate.2.847736.html

[Edwina's Secretary]

Yesterday a client called me about a problem with an employee. The employee was hysterical -- crying, etc. Clearly from the description of her behavior she needs medical help.

The problem? She belongs to an HMO and the next available appointment to see a doctor is November 22.

The company is helping her get the medical assistance she needs.

Next time someone tells you about other countries with Universal Healthcare and the long waits people must endure...think of Anna!

[jennielynn1970]

I have PPO Health Plan, pretty close to the HMO. I've never had a problem with waiting to get an appointment, just getting off from work to get an appointment, or trying to schedule an appointment while working 2 jobs.

If all else fails, I go to the ER and it costs me $35.00

I think with HMOs you have to submit an ER visit a little differently, but if she needs medical attention and can't get in with her regular physician, you go to the ER. Or find another physician who also accepts that insurance. Normally there is more than ONE physician who accepts that insurance (unless the company was really cheap and went with some totally unknown insurance company).

[Edwina's Secretary]

Blue Cross. Fairly well known. She will not go to the emergency room as the deductible is $1,500 -- which she cannot afford. When you make $9.00 an hour that is alot.

An HMO does not pay ANYTHING if you go to another physician. That is the difference between a PPO and an HMO. NO out of network benefits.

These are the people who fall through the cracks. They have a job. They do not qualify for government assistance. But for affordable insurance you have many co-pays -- that they cannot afford to pay.

You have excellent coverage if ER is only $35.00.

[jennielynn1970]

She does have a choice as to who she picks as a primary care physician, does she not? I mean, is there only one primary? Will they allow her to change her primary to one that has better office hours?


Our school district offered us a choice (after BC/BS split) of keeping our traditional coverage (with deductibles) or a PPO. Every family is different, and certain coverages work better for certain people. I chose the PPO. I get the doc for $10, and the ER for $35. When I started at BASD, my copay per paycheck was $9.00 (a steal). Since then it has gone up to $20 (this is after 11 years). Up until this school year, it didn't matter if you were one person, or a family of 8, you got the healthcare for the same copay deduction from your paycheck. You'd be amazed at the amount of teachers who complained about having the copay per paycheck go up. I was part of the bargaining committee, and I wanted to tell them to go look at private companies and see how much those people pay for their insurance. (You can't please everyone, and some of the teachers I work with are the whiniest people I've ever met...)

Our medical insurance is bargained for, and everyone of our teachers is covered by the insurance, whether you have coverage through your spouse or not. Some people get ticked off by that, although it's a fairly small group that has that issue, but they still are not given the choice as to whether they want the insurance or not (this copay that is deducted from our paycheck includes prescription coverage.. $10 per Rx for up to 90 days a Rx, and also dental coverage). So, yes, we do have good coverage, and at a very reasonable cost to the employees.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Yes, you do have exceptional coverage. And a very low premium contribution for employees. However...someone somewhere is paying the rest of the premium.

No, in an HMO you do not have Primary Care Physicians. You select a clinic. That is the end of the selections you have.

She does not speak English which limits her options.

You should know you really have exceptional coverage -- that is pretty much unheard of outside of public employees or some very large employers.

Your plan would be just unaffordable for the average employer.

[jennielynn1970]

Yes, you do have exceptional coverage. And a very low premium contribution for employees. However...someone somewhere is paying the rest of the premium.


You should know you really have exceptional coverage -- that is pretty much unheard of outside of public employees or some very large employers.

Your plan would be just unaffordable for the average employer.

The "someone" paying the rest of the premium would be our school district.
This would also mean that it's being paid for, in part, by taxes.

I know we have exceptional coverage. I worked elsewhere before becoming a teacher. I know how much it costs for coverage if your employer doesn't pay for the bulk of it like the employer I have now. Like I said, I helped with the bargaining for it. I was on the exec. committee of our union.

What I'd like to see is the people I teach with realize that as well when all they do is bitch and moan about a higher copay being deducted from their paycheck.

[Puckstop31]

The "someone" paying the rest of the premium would be our school district.
This would also mean that it's being paid for, in part, by taxes.

I know we have exceptional coverage. I worked elsewhere before becoming a teacher. I know how much it costs for coverage if your employer doesn't pay for the bulk of it like the employer I have now. Like I said, I helped with the bargaining for it. I was on the exec. committee of our union.

What I'd like to see is the people I teach with realize that as well when all they do is bitch and moan about a higher copay being deducted from their paycheck.


I like you a little bit more everytime you post Jen. LOL We still disagree on a lot of stuff, but seeing you post this... :love:

Very little makes my blood boil more than issues surrounding our public schools. The ingratitude of people "in the system" just amazes me. School districts going on strike because they are "only" getting a 3% raise. Or because they might have to pay 3% of their health premium. Or raising property taxes so they can build a million dollar FOOTBALL stadium.

You want to see the public school system excel? Do away with the unions. Let the great teachers excel... Let the bad teachers pound sand. Let parents choose what school their kid goes to. Allow teachers to kick disruptive students out.

But if I could change only one thing? Stop funding schools with property taxes. Increase the sales tax. My home should be MY home. I should not be renting it from the government.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The "someone" paying the rest of the premium would be our school district.
This would also mean that it's being paid for, in part, by taxes.

What I'd like to see is the people I teach with realize that as well when all they do is bitch and moan about a higher copay being deducted from their paycheck.

You should talk to your employer about publishing a benefits statement. There are lots of good vendors out there who prepare them. It is a way to show employees the value of the benefits they recieve but don't pay for directly.

Most employer pay an additional 40 cents in benefits for every dollar in direct pay. Employee tend to think if they don't pay for it, it is "free."

I would guess that plan you negoitated costs around $800 per month or more for single coverage. You pay $20 I think (I am not sure how often you are paid.)

Most employers today require employees to pay 20 - 25% of the cost of the premiums.

Unfotunately most employees only realize the value of their benefits when they lose them and have to go COBRA!

[Grace]

Vote for ANYbody other than either of these clowns.

Puckstop, I know you said in at least one other thread that you were voting for neither of the major candidates. Thought you might enjoy reading THIS (http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews_opinion/2008/10/editorial_mccain_and_obamas_sh.html). Lead editorial in my local Sunday paper. This newspaper is normally on the very liberal side, so this surprised me.

[Puckstop31]

Puckstop, I know you said in at least one other thread that you were voting for neither of the major candidates. Thought you might enjoy reading THIS (http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews_opinion/2008/10/editorial_mccain_and_obamas_sh.html). Lead editorial in my local Sunday paper. This newspaper is normally on the very liberal side, so this surprised me.


Excellent article Grace. Thank you for sharing. It pretty well sums up just about everything.

Add to that Obama's disdain for individual liberties that get in the way of his agenda and McCain's age, coupled with a poor choice for a running mate...


Yikes...

Like the article says, whoever wins, I hope he proves us wrong.

[lizbud]

Puckstop, I know you said in at least one other thread that you were voting for neither of the major candidates. Thought you might enjoy reading THIS (http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews_opinion/2008/10/editorial_mccain_and_obamas_sh.html). Lead editorial in my local Sunday paper. This newspaper is normally on the very liberal side, so this surprised me.


Grace, here is a well considered & thoughtful editorial endorsement
that I was happily surprised to read. It complements both sides, but does
make a thoughtful choice. IMO.

http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/567867.html

[Grace]

Grace, here is a well considered & thoughtful editorial endorsement
that I was happily surprised to read. It complements both sides, but does
make a thoughtful choice. IMO.


Thanks for the link. I had heard on the news that they had endorsed Obama, but had not had the opportunity to read it.

[blue]

Please keep in mind the ADN is a left leaning publication that is a part of The McClatchy Company and is not owned by Alaskans.

[RICHARD]

I just saw this on a CNN special w/D.L. Hughley.


"Sarah Palin is the second woman nominated to run for Veep.
Joe Biden was the first.":D

[Edwina's Secretary]

I just saw this on a CNN special w/D.L. Hughley.


"Sarah Palin is the second woman nominated to run for Veep.
Joe Biden was the first.":D

How droll. But wouldn't that make her the third?

[blue]

Geraldine was a man!

[RICHARD]

Geraldine was a man!

The short hair may have thrown you off!;)

[blue]

The short hair may have thrown you off!;)

Transgendered then.

[jennielynn1970]

Now, now , now... just because she sports the Ellen Degeneres look doesn't mean she plays on the same field. Be nice boys!

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/jenn_librarian/ferraro1-sized.jpg

[blue]

Isnt Ellen the "Man" in the relationship?

[RICHARD]

Now, now , now... just because she sports the Ellen Degeneres look doesn't mean she plays on the same field. Be nice boys!



And by the way, the term "boys" is very derogatory.

--------


GF is way better looking.

-------------

http://minimovie.com/film-128454-Dancing%20With%20the%20Political%20Stars

------------

Did anyone see the Code Pink moron that came on stage during and tried to arrest Karl Rove?

SHe tried to slap a pair of cuffs on him while she said, "citizen's arrest".
I love stupidity, it means I don't have to lower myself to get a laugh.:eek:

[jennielynn1970]

Isnt Ellen the "Man" in the relationship?

Don't really know. But if Portia DeRossi liked me, I think I'd be whatever role she asked me to (and I don't play on the same team, thank you). :p ;)

[jennielynn1970]

And by the way, the term "boys" is very derogatory.



I call myself a girl. Is that derogatory? Boys, girls, men, women, guys, gals. Same thing.

[RICHARD]

I call myself a girl. Is that derogatory? Boys, girls, men, women, guys, gals. Same thing.

Let me pull out my ghetto slang book and fling a few across your bow?:D

[jennielynn1970]

That would be Urban Dictionary, not Ghetto, if you want to be PC. ;)

[Puckstop31]

Opinions can change, values rarely do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck


1.) BO wants to take your money and give it to people who did not earn it.

2.) BO thinks the Constitution is the PROBLEM in this country.


Think long and hard about this people. Go past some petty feelings. THINK about what that means.

[Grace]

1.) BO wants to take your money and give it to people who did not earn it.

2.) BO thinks the Constitution is the PROBLEM in this country.



1. The Bush administration is handing out buckets of $$$ (our money) to the banks - did they 'earn' it? What about sugar subsidies?

2. Hmmm, and wasn't it George Bush who said about the Constitution of the United States - “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

[Puckstop31]

1. The Bush administration is handing out buckets of $$$ (our money) to the banks - did they 'earn' it? What about sugar subsidies?

2. Hmmm, and wasn't it George Bush who said about the Constitution of the United States - “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

Come on Grace... I'd expect a deflection like this from the lefty drones here, but not you.

You are using Bush's actions as a excuse for BO doing the same thing? What? I thought BO was a man of "change". But it just seems like he IS more of the same...

Do you think wealth SHOULD be redistributed? Do you think the Constitution is the problem and not the answer?

[lizbud]

I've got a news flash for everyone, the government already taxes people
and "distributes the wealth" the way it sees fit. It's nothing new. Only thing
that should change is who gets the "perks". The wealthy & well connected,
or the average ,middle class folks who support (with taxes) their government.

[Grace]

I am saying that redistribution of money, in this country, is nothing new. Farm and sugar subsidies, graduated income tax, bailout of banks. I’m not saying I approve; I’m just stating a fact of life.

As for the Constitution, while it may be a problem for Obama, it was a bigger one for Bush. His administration has trashed it. I most certainly did not approve of that - but then he didn't request my approval :rolleyes:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I've got a news flash for everyone, the government already taxes people
and "distributes the wealth" the way it sees fit. It's nothing new.

Yep, instead of playing Robbin Hood and taking from the rich and giving to the poor, they are taking from the poor and giving it to the rich!!!

Do oil companies REALLY deserve billions of dollars in profits while lots of people can't afford to heat their homes? :(

It's becoming whoever is the biggest crook wins!

[Puckstop31]

I've got a news flash for everyone, the government already taxes people and "distributes the wealth" the way it sees fit. It's nothing new.


I am saying that redistribution of money, in this country, is nothing new. Farm and sugar subsidies, graduated income tax, bailout of banks. I’m not saying I approve; I’m just stating a fact of life.

As for the Constitution, while it may be a problem for Obama, it was a bigger one for Bush. His administration has trashed it. I most certainly did not approve of that - but then he didn't request my approval

OK, so we KNOW the government does it. Both "sides" do it. Yet we are willing to keep on letting them do it by putting them back in office?

Grace - You think BO will get your approval to further negate the Constitution? Look, we all know that Bush is the devil and most of what he did was bad. Lets move past that and NOT put another person, just like him OR WORSE in the White House. BO is on record, many, many times now, saying that the Constitution is the problem. Not that we don't adhere to it, but that it is THE problem. If that does not scare the crap out of you.... Well, then there really is no hope and it will come, eventually, to open armed conflict. Why? Because there are way to many people who took an oath to uphold and defend that document and what it stands for... Against ALL enemies, foreign or domestic. I took that oath, to defend the document and what it stands for, not the men and women in DC raping it. I keep my word. It is not time yet, but those storms clouds are getting nasty.

If there ever was a case for a 3rd party... This election is IT.

[Puckstop31]

Do oil companies REALLY deserve billions of dollars in profits while lots of people can't afford to heat their homes? :(




If they EARNED it, yes. But you want to go after a REAL evil greedy company? Pick on Google. Pick on Microsoft. Pick on APPLE.

8% "windfall" profits, that kind of money is chicken feed compared to Google.

[lizbud]

If they EARNED it, yes. But you want to go after a REAL evil greedy company? Pick on Google. Pick on Microsoft. Pick on APPLE.

8% "windfall" profits, that kind of money is chicken feed compared to Google.


Sorry, but they have to get in line behind all the wall street investment
firms and large banking firms that need some of our"wealth" to put them back
in business.:rolleyes:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

OK, so we KNOW the government does it. Both "sides" do it. Yet we are willing to keep on letting them do it by putting them back in office?

Grace - You think BO will get your approval to further negate the Constitution? Look, we all know that Bush is the devil and most of what he did was bad. Lets move past that and NOT put another person, just like him OR WORSE in the White House. BO is on record, many, many times now, saying that the Constitution is the problem. Not that we don't adhere to it, but that it is THE problem. If that does not scare the crap out of you.... Well, then there really is no hope and it will come, eventually, to open armed conflict. Why? Because there are way to many people who took an oath to uphold and defend that document and what it stands for... Against ALL enemies, foreign or domestic. I took that oath, to defend the document and what it stands for, not the men and women in DC raping it. I keep my word. It is not time yet, but those storms clouds are getting nasty.

If there ever was a case for a 3rd party... This election is IT.

The Constitution is not THE problem!!! It's the idiots who don't follow it. Bush had the support of Congress before he invaded Iraq, no matter what they are trying to make everyone believe now. I don't recall anywhere in the Constitution saying go invade another country if you don't like their leader!!!

If the Constitution falls, so does our country. At least it can't be amended by just one person.

By the way, I've heard the European Union is wanting to take over the banking systems of the world. Now THAT scares the bejeebers out of me. :eek:

[Puckstop31]

Sorry, but they have to get in line behind all the wall street investment
firms and large banking firms that need some of our"wealth" to put them back
in business.:rolleyes:

So you agree the bailout bill is bad?

[Puckstop31]

The Constitution is not THE problem!!! It's the idiots who don't follow it. Bush had the support of Congress before he invaded Iraq, no matter what they are trying to make everyone believe now. I don't recall anywhere in the Constitution saying go invade another country if you don't like their leader!!!

If the Constitution falls, so does our country. At least it can't be amended by just one person.

By the way, I've heard the European Union is wanting to take over the banking systems of the world. Now THAT scares the bejeebers out of me. :eek:

OK, so we AGREE.

A vote for Obama is a vote for doing away with the Consitution. A vote for McCain is a vote for more of the same "back room" redistirbution of wealth.

Pick your poison. OR Vote for a 3rd party.

Bush will be a saint compared to either one of these clowns. Think about THAT.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

If they EARNED it, yes. But you want to go after a REAL evil greedy company? Pick on Google. Pick on Microsoft. Pick on APPLE.

8% "windfall" profits, that kind of money is chicken feed compared to Google.

If I were president, you can bet your underwear, I would go after them if they were a US comany and subject to taxes!!! :p

[Puckstop31]

A long but excellent editorial. And NEUTRAL. Please read the whole thing. The best part is at the end.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=6099188&page=5

[Grace]

A long but excellent editorial. And NEUTRAL. Please read the whole thing. The best part is at the end.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=6099188&page=5

THIS (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=6099188&page=1) is the link you should have posted. Yours takes one to the 5th page of the article, and I would have read only that. But you said the article was long, and that one page was short.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Since I voted yesterday, it's too late for any one to change my mind! :)

I did see a funny commercial by McCain today. He said he would not sign ANY bill that had ANY pork attatched to it. I remember lots of people saying the same thing when running.

Only problem is, the only way they can get bills passed that they want, is if they allow pork that the congress wants. Same way congress sneaks the big raises they get every year by everyone while pretending they are not getting them. :D

Stick them in a long bill and don't allow line by line veto!!! :rolleyes:

[Puckstop31]

THIS (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=6099188&page=1) is the link you should have posted. Yours takes one to the 5th page of the article, and I would have read only that. But you said the article was long, and that one page was short.


:o

Thanks Grace. I am such a tool. LOL

[lizbud]

BO is on record, many, many times now, saying that the Constitution is the problem. Not that we don't adhere to it, but that it is THE problem. If that does not scare the crap out of you.... Well, then there really is no hope and it will come, eventually, to open armed conflict. .




Shall I warn the FBI now that you are inviting armed conflict among
citizens after this election? Do you realize how you sound saying all
this stuff?

Please, pretty please, show me your proof of Obama saying this the US
Constitution is a problem in any way.

[lizbud]

Just wanted to share my very favorite cartoon of the day.:D


http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/cartoon/2008-10/43075357.jpg

[Grace]

Since I voted yesterday, it's too late for any one to change my mind! :)


And I voted last week.

[Puckstop31]

Shall I warn the FBI now that you are inviting armed conflict among
citizens after this election? Do you realize how you sound saying all
this stuff?

Good God Liz... You are such a drama queen. Please get over yourself.

I pray every day that it does NOT come to that. But I fear it might. And yes, I realize how I sound saying this. The scary truth is, well, scary.


Please, pretty please, show me your proof of Obama saying this the US
Constitution is a problem in any way.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=79225

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11OhmY1obS4

Now I know you are going to rip the source. But listen to the Youtube link. the read this article...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=6099188&page=1


If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be OK.

But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can't do to you. Says what the federal government can't do to you, but doesn't say what the federal government or state government must do on your behalf.

And that hasn't shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court-focused I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that.


The man wants to modify the Constitution. He wants it to be a document of entitlement, rather than a document of FREEDOM. He thinks the Constitution CONSTRAINS people.

I have read just about every word of the Federalist Papers. I have done extensive reading and research into the founders, their ideals and their motives. The documents they created are the greatest documents of governance in history. Perfect? No. But they must have done something right. Weare, in a short span of time, the most free, prosperous and influential nation in history.

To put it in one sentence... The man wants to turn it into a document of entitlements, and change it from a document of FREEDOMS.

I challenge you to actually READ the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. Tell me what you think. Then compare it to the "government" we have today.

[lizbud]

You have seriously misunderstood what was being discussed & what Obama was trying to show to whomever he was speaking to.

The constitution was mentioned & so was the Warren Court, but his main
points in the conversation was about neither.

[RICHARD]

lol,

Bill Bratton, the uber general of the LAPD, did broach the idea of having more cops on board for election night in case there was social unrest due to the results of the election.
Many police chiefs across the country have already stated this concern....
I think that it may be a thinly veiled racist desire to keep the peace.

And on the female front?

In West Hollywood a hanging effigy of Sarah Palin hangs on the side of a home- Now, where are all the women that should take exception to this show of woman hatred-there was an interview with the two men that put it up as 'installation art".


I love El Lay!

[Puckstop31]

You have seriously misunderstood what was being discussed & what Obama was trying to show to whomever he was speaking to.

The constitution was mentioned & so was the Warren Court, but his main
points in the conversation was about neither.

Right Liz... I am the one who misunderstood. You are so infinetley more clairvoyant than I, than anybody for that matter. It's not like I have spent most of my adult life spending time reading, discussing (honsetly... not with intellectual juveniles...) and studying our founders and what their intent was for our country.

Liz, there is not one intellectually honest bone in your body. You would not see the truth if it slapped you in the face with a brick. See, I admit it when I am beaten.... I am honest enough and wise enough to know that we learn more from failure than success...

So tell me... What WAS his point? The more detail you can provide, the better, please.

[blue]

But Puck, that interview was 7 years ago. According to my coworker it has no bearing on NObama's views now. Surely NObama in his work in the State and Federal Senates he has grown to respect the Constitution and its intent.

I couldnt type that with a straight face.

[jennielynn1970]

In West Hollywood a hanging effigy of Sarah Palin hangs on the side of a home- Now, where are all the women that should take exception to this show of woman hatred-there was an interview with the two men that put it up as 'installation art".


How does someone do that?? That would be like hanging a dummy of a black person from a noose in a tree.

I may not be pro-Palin, but geez... that's going a little too far.

[RICHARD]

How does someone do that?? That would be like hanging a dummy of a black person from a noose in a tree.

I may not be pro-Palin, but geez... that's going a little too far.

They spoke to the gents who seemed a little "effete"-they probably were upset about SP having more money to dress up and nicer than they do.
I think it was the FBI or SS that were parked outside the residence and I guess they were in for a visit and intelligence BBQing (grilling) from them.

----------

Now,

There was a cardboard BO that was hung from a tree outside a school. Someone hung him with fishing string from a tree branch and put a sign on it that said something about rejects.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,305246,00.html

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/54960.html

Here are two links to the story.

Now, It you want to look at the 'racist' side of the story, you can conjure up
white sheets, burning crosses and lynching.....

Or you can see the hanging of the cutout with a piece of fishing string, something not as obvious and probably not as offensive . What if they had hung it by the ears? Or punched a hole thru his head?

The AHs that see evil behind every bush and under every rock are the same people that won't hesitate to blow something out of proportion for their cause-or to improve a "victim status".
I laugh when I see Al Sharptongue and the rev Jerkson jump thru hoops to prove that world is full of hate - instead of trying to bring people together they only jump the gap to prove there is a chasm between everyone.

It's all in bad taste. The Palin hangers have the same right to 'clown' on her, but it's only a crime when your skin, religion or race is involved.

Being obvious with a noose is one thing, fishing string is stretching it.

--------------

I also saw a sports report on a white sports writer that did a story about a coach who was on a black athlete's case. He wrote something like 'Coach X is tightening the noose on Player Y"

That turns out to be a "racist" commentary because a black player was involved.

Supidity is alive and well in America.

[jennielynn1970]

It's all in bad taste.

That's about the size of it.

[Puckstop31]

Some more evidence Liz.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122515067227674187.html


These numbers ought to raise serious concern because of Mr. Obama's extreme left-wing views about the role of judges. He believes -- and he is quite open about this -- that judges ought to decide cases in light of the empathy they ought to feel for the little guy in any lawsuit.

Who needs LAWS? Let your heart be your guide. :rolleyes:



This raises the question of whether Mr. Obama can in good faith take the presidential oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution" as he must do if he is to take office. Does Mr. Obama support the Constitution as it is written, or does he support amendments to guarantee welfare? Is his provision of a "tax cut" to millions of Americans who currently pay no taxes merely a foreshadowing of constitutional rights to welfare, health care, Social Security, vacation time and the redistribution of wealth? Perhaps the candidate ought to be asked to answer these questions before the election rather than after.

But you CAN'T ask those questions. If you do, he shuts you down.

Facist much?

[momoffuzzyfaces]

How does someone do that?? That would be like hanging a dummy of a black person from a noose in a tree.

I may not be pro-Palin, but geez... that's going a little too far.

They were talking about this on Headline News today. Apparently because it was of a woman and near Halloween, the FBI doesn't think it's a hate crime!!!! I bet their mommas are proud!!! :rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

They were talking about this on Headline News today. Apparently because it was of a woman and near Halloween, the FBI doesn't think it's a hate crime!!!! I bet their mommas are proud!!! :rolleyes:

Well, it's tit for tat. Some other moron hung a BO dummy in his front yard. That was on the tube today.

Talk about opening your home up to some Halloween hijinks!:rolleyes:

[lizbud]

Right Liz... I am the one who misunderstood. You are so infinetley more clairvoyant than I, than anybody for that matter. It's not like I have spent most of my adult life spending time reading, discussing (honsetly... not with intellectual juveniles...) and studying our founders and what their intent was for our country.

Liz, there is not one intellectually honest bone in your body. You would not see the truth if it slapped you in the face with a brick. See, I admit it when I am beaten.... I am honest enough and wise enough to know that we learn more from failure than success...

So tell me... What WAS his point? The more detail you can provide, the better, please.


Okee Dokee,:) Sometimes I think you are channeling this women.:)

Palin Suggests Obama Would Re-Write Constitution
October 29, 2008 7:57 AM

ABC News' Imtiyaz Delawala Reports: Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin went beyond her running mate's recent attack on Sen. Barack Obama -- inaccurately claiming that Obama called the lack of "redistributive change" during the civil rights movement a "tragedy" -- and used Obama's 2001 interview to insinuate that he wants to re-write the U.S. Constitution and appoint radical Supreme Court justices and judges who would confiscate the property of American citizens.

At two rallies in Western Pennsylvania last night, Palin referenced at the top of her remarks a 2001 public radio interview with Obama that surfaced this week, in which Obama discussed the role of the courts in the civil rights movement.

"There he was talking about the need for quote 'redistributive change,'" Palin said on the campus of Shippensburg University Tuesday night. “Sen. Obama said that he regretted that the Supreme Court hadn't been more radical. And he described the Court's refusal to take up the issues of redistribution of wealth as a tragedy. And he said he also regretted that the Supreme Court didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers there in the Constitution”


Obama had in fact argued the opposite in the 2001 interview, saying that the civil rights movement had become too focused on making change through the judicial system, rather than from the ground up through community organizations.

But Palin used Obama's words to follow an argument Sen. John McCain has made this week that Obama has long-advocated for "spreading the wealth." "Obama says that he wants to spread the wealth," Palin said to boos from the crowd. "In other words he thinks that it's your job to earn the wealth and it's his job to spread it."

But Palin then went beyond any argument McCain has made, using the 2001 interview to insinuate that Obama wants to re-write the U.S. Constitution and appoint radical Supreme Court justices, while also suggesting that under Obama, judges would confiscate the property of American citizens.

Referencing the interview, Palin said, "So you have to ask, is this a suggestion that's he’d want to re-write the founding document of our great nation to accomplish his goals. And what does that say about his ideas on future Supreme Court justices?"

"Let me remind Barack Obama of something else. When judges don’t confiscate your property and your hard-earned -- all of your hard-earned money and then re-distribute that, he may call that a tragedy. But I call it fairness and adherence to our U.S. Constitution," Palin added later in her remarks.

In the interview, Obama described one of the "tragedies of the civil rights movement" was that "the civil rights movement became so court-focused".

"I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways, we still suffer from that," Obama said in the interview.

When a caller asked whether economic redistribution should come through the courts or the legislative process, Obama replied, "I'm not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts. The institution just isn't structured that way."

Obama's 2001 interview made no mention of judges confiscating property. The Palin campaign did not provide clarification on what Palin was referring to with the remark.

Palin said the 2001 interview revealed Obama's "real ideology" and that his goal to "spread your wealth around" would only spread "scarcity and poverty and bureaucracy" and would stifle the country's entrepreneurial spirit. She asked those in the crowd to support the Republican ticket to preserve the "uniquely American system that our founding fathers created."

"Sometimes in politics it's those candid little moments that give us the whole picture," Palin said at a second rally on the Penn State campus in State College, PA last night. "But our opponent's ideological commitment to spread your wealth around has been tried in other societies, and the only thing it ever spreads is scarcity and poverty and bureaucracy, and it stifles the entrepreneurial spirit that made this country the greatest country on Earth."

The comments were similar to remarks Palin made at rallies this weekend in Iowa, where the Republican vice presidential nominee seemed to move from accusing Obama’s economic plans of having elements of socialism to also allude to the problems faced by communist systems.

[Puckstop31]

Okee Dokee,:) Sometimes I think you are channeling this women.:)




Sigh... Typical Liz. Deflect and avoid a real answer.

You asked me for evidence. I provided some. THIS is what I get.

Again, please tell me what YOU think he meant by those comments?

[RICHARD]

The thing I find most hysterical is that there are comments, tapes, videos and other media that's been 'taken outta context, 'massaged, misconstrued and misquoted' that BO has made. He will not and cannot defend himself or take the time set the record straight about any of his gaffes.

Every GOP challenge is an attack on BO's character, patriotism and race-BO has his minions constantly defending him-and never really answering any of the questions from the media.

What does he mean?

He could easily end all speculation about his radio comments and the supposed dinner party he had with Mr. PLO spokesperson captured on tape and owned by the El Lay Times.....

What about medical and school records he has not released?

BO isn't anyone that wants or thinks he should be forthright with anyone asking questions about who he is and what his agenda might be.

That's one of the basic reasons that I really do not care for him or his politics.
He's got 'typical politician" written all over.

The BO mystique is nothing more that a curtain put up by him and his handlers.

IT amounts to the old line about "ignoring the man behind the curtain".

It's just a man pulling levers, making noise and spewing flames to distract his followers and keep them from realizing that he's just another idiot, running for office and making promises he cannot keep.

[blue]

The back pedal has begun in the Barry Camp.


October 31, 2008
Barack Obama lays plans to deaden expectation after election victory

Barack Obama’s senior advisers have drawn up plans to lower expectations for his presidency if he wins next week’s election, amid concerns that many of his euphoric supporters are harbouring unrealistic hopes of what he can achieve.

The sudden financial crisis and the prospect of a deep and painful recession have increased the urgency inside the Obama team to bring people down to earth, after a campaign in which his soaring rhetoric and promises of “hope” and “change” are now confronted with the reality of a stricken economy.

One senior adviser told The Times that the first few weeks of the transition, immediately after the election, were critical, “so there’s not a vast mood swing from exhilaration and euphoria to despair”.

The aide said that Mr Obama himself was the first to realise that expectations risked being inflated.

In an interview with a Colorado radio station, Mr Obama appeared to be engaged already in expectation lowering. Asked about his goals for the first hundred days, he said he would need more time to tackle such big and costly issues as health care reform, global warming and Iraq. “The first hundred days is going to be important, but it’s probably going to be the first thousand days that makes the difference,” he said. He has also been reminding crowds in recent days how “hard” it will be to achieve his goals, and that it will take time.

“I won’t stand here and pretend that any of this will be easy – especially now,” Mr Obama told a rally in Sarasota, Florida, yesterday, citing “the cost of this economic crisis, and the cost of the war in Iraq”. Mr Obama’s transition team is headed by John Podesta, a Washington veteran and a former chief-of-staff to Bill Clinton. He has spent months overseeing a virtual Democratic government-in-exile to plan a smooth transition should Mr Obama emerge victorious next week. The plans are so far advanced that an Obama Cabinet has been largely decided upon, with the expectation that most of his senior appointments could be announced shortly after election day.

Yet Mr Obama and his aides are under no illusions about the size of the challenges the Democrat will inherit if he enters the Oval Office. Tom Daschle, the party’s former leader in the US Senate and a strong contender for the post of White House chief-of-staff in an Obama administration, said last month that the winner next week would have only a 50 per cent chance of winning a second term in 2012.

Not only will the next president take office with the country sliding into a potentially long recession — and mired in debt — but the challenges abroad are immense. There is an unfinished war in Iraq, a worsening situation in Afghanistan and an unstable and nuclear-armed Pakistan to contend with. Iran appears intent on acquiring the bomb and there remains the ever-present threat from al-Qaeda and Islamic extremists.

If he wins, Mr Obama will inherit a Democratic-controlled Congress, and might even have the benefit of a 60-seat filibuster-proof “supermajority” in the Senate. Such a scenario would allow him to push through legislation largely unfettered by Republican opposition. Yet it also means that should the country still be mired in recession in three years’ time, voters — who have short memories — will probably blame him and the Democrats on Capitol Hill. Those stakes have led Mr Obama to conclude that while expectations need to be tempered, big things need to be achieved very early in his first term, when he will still have the political capital to achieve some of his most ambitious legislative goals.

Having promised “real” change, the pressure will be on him to deliver. In the Colorado interview, Mr Obama added: “The next president has got to come quickly out of the box.”

The early priorities being lined up if he takes power are a mixture of symbolism and substance. He plans to make a major address in a big Muslim country early in his first term. Having pledged on the campaign trail to close Guantanamo Bay, he is also determined to make early moves to rid America of the controversial prison. Yet what to do with the remaining inmates looms as an intractable problem, as many of their home governments refuse to allow them to return.

Mr Obama’s first legislative goals will be to follow through on his pledge to cut taxes for the middle class and raise them for the wealthiest Americans, and to push through a hugely expensive Bill to provide near-universal health insurance.

[Puckstop31]

Liz... Your silence is deafening. ;)

[Grace]

Liz... Your silence is deafening. ;)

Perhaps she has other things on her mind right now.

[blue]

Perhaps she has other things on her mind right now.

Like maybe actually reading the constitution. I doubt it but we can hope.

[Puckstop31]

Something to think about on Tuesday.

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."

–Abraham Lincoln

[beeniesmom]

Like maybe actually reading the constitution. I doubt it but we can hope.


Actually she is having a serious medical condition that could kill her taken care of in the next few days. If you were to visit other areas of this site, you'd know.
Do you even own pets or do you come here just to instigate and create ill feelings?

[Ginger's Mom]

Something to think about on Tuesday.

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."

–Abraham Lincoln

It's funny, I guess it shows why Abraham Lincoln was such a great orator. I agree with the above quote, and yet, I am pretty sure that I have a totally different interpretation of it than you do.

[Grace]

Actually she is having a serious medical condition that could kill her taken care of in the next few days. If you were to visit other areas of this site, you'd know.
Do you even own pets or do you come here just to instigate and create ill feelings?

Thanks for posting this. I did send both blue and Puckstop a private message just this morning - enlightening them. Or so I hope.

[caseysmom]

Actually she is having a serious medical condition that could kill her taken care of in the next few days. If you were to visit other areas of this site, you'd know.
Do you even own pets or do you come here just to instigate and create ill feelings?

Thank you!

[jennielynn1970]

Actually she is having a serious medical condition that could kill her taken care of in the next few days. If you were to visit other areas of this site, you'd know.
Do you even own pets or do you come here just to instigate and create ill feelings?

Look, not taking sides here, but why is it ok for Liz to make a snarky comment to Blue and Puck, but it's not ok for them to make a comment to her because she's ill?? She made some not so nice comments to Blue right after his friend (who was his boss) died.

I'm wondering if maybe she's made comments like that because she is ill. Not an excuse, but maybe that's part of it, ya know??

It's also very possible that Blue and Puck didn't read her post about her condition. I hope that she has a good outcome with it. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes, it's a scary condition.

Everyone needs to show some compassion. Let me leave it at that.

[caseysmom]

Lizbud has been a member here for almost a decade, Blue joined a month ago and pretty much had the guns drawn and the insults flying from the get go...its really hard to feel the same.

[beeniesmom]

You know Jenn, one thing is making nasty comments sometimes and then balancing it out with posts about lighthearted things, and another is being a downright jerk all the time. I've been attacked by lizbud myself a few times but it was all in good fun. Some people here take things too personally.

Let's just get along. I really care about all of you.

[jennielynn1970]

Lizbud has been a member here for almost a decade, Blue joined a month ago and pretty much had the guns drawn and the insults flying from the get go...its really hard to feel the same.

I just mean that we all need to show compassion. Whether a new member, or a member who has been here for a decade. No one should be treated any differently. We all deserve to be shown compassion.

[caseysmom]

I just mean that we all need to show compassion. Whether a new member, or a member who has been here for a decade. No one should be treated any differently. We all deserve to be shown compassion.

I think thats something we can all agree on.

[lizbud]

I don't need a pity party, thanks. I've become aware of how precious
time is & decided to re-order the priorities in my life. I would much rather
take long walks with my pups in this beautiful fall weather, then argue with
someone on PT.

I've decided playing with my cats & enjoying them as they sun bath in
the afternoon sun through the glass storm door. Don't you love to see
your animals in contented rest. (They sleep in the strangest positions):)


Anyhoo, I decided to drop all exerises in futility, and post when I have
time & the subject interests me. Isn't that what we all do after all.:D

[RICHARD]

I don't need a pity party, thanks.

Well, at least explain where they are in relation to the Green and Libertarians?:confused::eek:

[Catty1]

Well, at least explain where they are in relation to the Green and Libertarians?

RICHARRRRRRRD!!!!

You is SUCH a brat!:rolleyes::D

[blue]

Perhaps she has other things on her mind right now.


Actually she is having a serious medical condition that could kill her taken care of in the next few days. If you were to visit other areas of this site, you'd know.
Do you even own pets or do you come here just to instigate and create ill feelings?


Thanks for posting this. I did send both blue and Puckstop a private message just this morning - enlightening them. Or so I hope.

I read the thread when it was first posted and didnt add anything as I have no experience with the procedure or illness. I didnt connect the lack of responses by Liz to her thread and what she is going through do to my lack of an attention span, and my own medical issues along with everything else that has gone on recently.

Liz I appologise for any snide, snarky, or sacastic comments Ive made while you are dealing with the issues you are dealing with. I pray and wish you the best with what you are going through.

[lizbud]

Well, at least explain where they are in relation to the Green and Libertarians?:confused::eek:



:D I think they are related to the Gloomy party.

[RICHARD]

:D I think they are related to the Gloomy party.

Buena Suerte, tomorrow.

When you sit down with the doctor get a big room, You'll have a tons of PTers there with you.

Write all your ?? down and don't worry-sometimes there are male nurse around.

--------------

I have resigned myself to not watch any TV today. I went next door to visit my mom and she had the tube on.....I didn't pay any attention and still haven't turned on my TV. Even the stupid Rock and Roll radio station was pushing the 'vote'.

Eff this. IT's alllllmmmmmooooooosssssstttttt over. Time to plug in DVD!:D

[Puckstop31]

Funnay email my Mom forwarded to me...


I received the letter below from a fellow businessman and good friend and I must agree with his decision on how to choose in a must lay off situation. Please join me in sending this off to every business owner that you know.




Name taken off open letter....


Subject: If you must lay off employees in 2009


As a business owner who employs 30 people, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barack Obama will be our next President, and that my taxes and fees will go up in a BIG way.


To compensate for these increases, I figure that our customers will have to see an increase in my fees of about 8%. I will also have to lay off six of my employees. This really bothered me as I believe we are family here and didn't know how to choose who will have to go.

So, this is what I did. I strolled thru the parking lot and found eight Obama bumper stickers on my employees' cars. I have decided these folks will be the first to be laid off.


I can't think of more fair way to approach this problem. If you have a better idea, let me know. I am sending this letter to all business owners that I know.


:p

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I can't believe anyone thinks this is funny. Why not fire the ones who voted Republican. They had more to do with the messed up economy! :p Obama is not even in office yet!

[blue]

I can't believe anyone thinks this is funny. Why not fire the ones who voted Republican. They had more to do with the messed up economy!

Care to back this up with some facts? Ill even take theories at this point as long as they have at least some factual backing.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Care to back this up with some facts? Ill even take theories at this point as long as they have at least some factual backing.

Sure! Look at the shape of the country today and compare it to eight years ago. :rolleyes:

[blue]

Thanks for being specific.:rolleyes:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Thanks for being specific.:rolleyes:

You're welcome!!! :D

Ok, banks weren't failing like they are now, not so many forclosures on homes, unemployment not as bad, stock market stable, businessess were more stable, no war sucking the life out of our country or people, I was younger...

oh, wait, I can't blame the government for that, can I? ;)

[lizbud]

I can't believe anyone thinks this is funny. Why not fire the ones who voted Republican. They had more to do with the messed up economy! :p Obama is not even in office yet!


There was an article in local paper about a small tire shop owner had
decided to fly the American flag upsidedown outside his business as a
show of disgust that Obama won the election. All his employees decided
to quit their jobs if he didn't fly the flag correctly. The owner backed down
and righted the flag. Owner said he was going on vacation & couldn't get
a trained group to replace them.:)

[blue]

You're welcome!!! :D

Ok, banks weren't failing like they are now, not so many forclosures on homes, unemployment not as bad, stock market stable, businessess were more stable, no war sucking the life out of our country or people, I was younger...

oh, wait, I can't blame the government for that, can I? ;)

This should cover a fair portion of why we are where we are, link (http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/08/LessonsFromTheBailout.htm).

[caseysmom]

Need to rant...my sister and hubby are staunch republicans and still love Bush..no problem thats their peroggative, I have never once said anything about politics to them since the seem to feel so strongly about it, my sis is more important to me that political bs.

They stop by unexpectedly and see my Obama book on the coffee table and totally and seriously rip me about it...excuse me this is my house and you stop by unannounced and I am made to feel like I have done something wrong...just a rant...

[RICHARD]

I won't be posting here anymore until I get the pencils I shoved in my ears removed.

This weekend I was treated to the worst possible experience ever. Our esteemed mayor was on the tube - photo op, can't miss that- and he stuttered his way thru a few press conferences.

Holy kee-rist,
I cannot stand to listen to any politician that stutters thru any interview.

I swear, it makes me want to kick my T.V. IF THEY KNEW HOW THEY SOUND they would take some diction or classes to slap the UM/AH and UHs outta their vocabulary.

I find that the difference between a well rehearsed speech and a blithering idiot speaking off the cuff is very telling when dealing with politicians.

[Puckstop31]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94ISTF80&show_article=1

:rolleyes:

Right... Like those clowns in DC know how to run a business. Who in the hell are they to tell these companies how to run a business?

Now I am not advocating they bail them out anyway.... But hte arrogance of those people is getting to me... LOL

Can we start the revolution soon, please?

[RICHARD]

I have had a freaking FIELD DAY with how EVERYONE has tapped into the political happenings of this week.

Sports, business, comedy, including politics.

SHUT UP and let the guy get the seat warm, OK?

--------

I tuned into the Motorsports radio program I listen to and it's about what the pres will do about sponsorships, owners and drivers.

I tune into sports and it's all about what the pres will do about team, playoffs and his love of basketball-now, if that borders on a stereotype?

This morning I was listening to a talk show and this is the commercial that I heard.


"We have a new president who has a clear vision and now SO CAN YOU! You can have LASIK surgery done for........."


Please,

We don't even know what he thinks or how far in advance he's looking.


It's funny and sad that all these outlets are suddenly interested in politics as fodder for the listening audience.

I have had a news blackout at my house and want the Pomp and Circumstance over with as soon as possible. Get working and do the job.
The American public will wake up tomorrow with the usual arse full of political hangover and it will be business as usual,


Complain, complain, complain!:eek::p:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

My gosh, Nancy Pelosi is a hoot!


Contraception to keep the unwanted pregnancies down so we all don't have to pay for them?The topic may be a little past her recollection so....


Why not install cameras in people's bedrooms?:D

I really love NP, she reminds me that I do have some knowledge compared to other people in the world.

[RICHARD]

I have to laugh at THIS one.


I make a mistake on my Income Tax and I will get my arse hauled off to jail.


This moron makes a 34,000 dollar mistake and get to be Head Yahoo of the Department of Whatever?

Great Picking Mr. Pres! and thanks for giving him your Seal of Approval, Lower Level Representatives of the Working Class.

I hope my government give me the forgiveness they have shown this AH.;)

[RICHARD]

I thoroughly enjoyed the Prez' speech tonight.

I LMFAO everytime the Senator from Cah lee fuh nee ah JUMPED OUT OF HER seat to applaud. She gave away every 'talking point' in the speech so badly I forgot what he said and am really sorry that I didn't watch it and use her actions as a drinking game!

-----------------

I am so glad she was able to make it back from Italy and Afghanistan.
Media for her is everything!:rolleyes::eek:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I enjoyed the Pres speech tonight too. I got a big kick out of seeing some of the Rep's expresions. Some looked like they were sucking lemons; or maybe sour grapes.

Let's face it. He has to do something and their big bailout laid an egg. :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I enjoyed the Pres speech tonight too. I got a big kick out of seeing some of the Rep's expresions. Some looked like they were sucking lemons; or maybe sour grapes.

Let's face it. He has to do something and their big bailout laid an egg. :)

And weren't they all over Obama wanting his autograph for the folks back home! They find Obama's ideas so awful...but 68% of their constituents like what he is doing...:D

And the rebuttal guy...is he a former grade school principal???? He sure talks like he is addressing the incoming first graders!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I don't recall anyone asking for GB's autograph! :D

[lizbud]

And weren't they all over Obama wanting his autograph for the folks back home! They find Obama's ideas so awful...but 68% of their constituents like what he is doing...:D

And the rebuttal guy...is he a former grade school principal???? He sure talks like he is addressing the incoming first graders!


I was a little surprised to see all these folks wanting a autograph from Obama. I don't blame them, I would too, but it did surprise me it happened in the House chamber.

Gov Jindal's speech was panned by everyone in the GOP camp.:D Only
Rush came to his defense. Jindal is supposed to be the GOP's answer
to Obama. :rolleyes:

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/25/rush-mentors-jindal/

[Puckstop31]

Tick.....Tock.....Tick......Tock.....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html?mod=djemEditorialPage


"Mr. Obama is very good at portraying his agenda as nothing more than center-left pragmatism. But pragmatists don't ignore the data."


The President is clearly not a stupid man. He has to know, from history, what happens when you do the things he is trying to do. So that begs the question...WHY? A professor of Constitutional Law? Perhaps he studies it so that he can figure out ways around it? He is on record as saying the Constitution is too LIMITING. (DUH! That is what the framers intended for it.)

[RICHARD]

I had to laugh at the "I never had a helicopter before" statement..

He didn't see the need to stop the order for a cheaper one?

It costs us just as much as AF1...

What a marroon!

----------

Are the EARMARKS everyone is talking about smudges he leaves on the doorjambs?:confused:

[blue]

A little quick history...


While Americans, through ignorance or purpose, show contempt for our Constitution, I doubt whether they are indifferent between a growing or stagnating economy. Dr. Higgs tells us some of the economic history of the U.S. In 1893, there was a depression; we got out of it without a stimulus package. There was a major recession of 1920-21; though sharp, it quickly reversed itself into what has been call the "Roaring Twenties." In 1929, there was an economic downturn, most notably featured by the stock market collapse, after which came massive government intervention -- you might call it the nation's first stimulus package. President Hoover and Congress responded to what might have been a two- or three-year sharp downturn with many of the policies President Obama and Congress are urging today. They raised tariffs, propped up wage rates, bailed out farmers, banks and other businesses, and financed state relief efforts. When Roosevelt came to office, he became even more interventionist than Hoover and presided over protracted depression where the economy didn't fully recover until 1946.

Full text here (http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/09/TheHellWithOurConstitution.htm).

Article by DR Robert Higgs is here (http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0209/p09s01-coop.html).

[Puckstop31]

.... He is declaring war on investors, entrepreneurs, small businesses, large corporations, and private-equity and venture-capital funds.

That is the meaning of his anti-growth tax-hike proposals, which make absolutely no sense at all — either for this recession or from the standpoint of expanding our economy’s long-run potential to grow.

Raising the marginal tax rate on successful earners, capital, dividends, and all the private funds is a function of Obama’s left-wing social vision, and a repudiation of his economic-recovery statements. Ditto for his sweeping government-planning-and-spending program, which will wind up raising federal outlays as a share of GDP to at least 30 percent, if not more, over the next 10 years......


There is a growing sense of buyer’s remorse.



http://www.cnbc.com/id/29434104

Buyers remorse? Gee, who woulda thunk it? A guy with almost NO real leadership experience.... But gives on hell of a speech. Sounds like, dare I say it? Adolf Hitler?

Change we can believe in!!!! We will all be equally miserable!!! WOO HOO!

(Except our dear leader, he will NEVER feel the pain.....)

[blue]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9106/9b7449186431048fcbdfea6.png

[Puckstop31]

A little lighter now.... I thought this oddly appropriate.

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-02-28/


Replace "Law" with "Constitution"

[blue]

Apperently the Germans feel Obama is the Second Coming...

http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/imagehosting/76949a6c6b94b481.jpg

[RICHARD]

I guess I have to eat some crow.


Not even two months into the new president's term and I do see the difference in the country.


I had lunch with my sibs at a mall and I noticed a machine next to the carousel that said CHANGE on the front of it. When I paid the bill, I handed the folder with my money inside to our server and he came back later and told me he would be back with my CHANGE. I did ask him if BO was in the mall, he said, 'NO!' That made me believe that we can have change with him in office.


God bless America and the new president.

:rolleyes::confused:

[RICHARD]

Dear My President,

Why are you sending Ms. Clinton to the Middle East with 900,000,000 dollars for the Gaza Strip?

How will that money be spent? OR how many skyrocket missles can you buy for the idiots that are running the place?

Instead of making or giving them incentives - Don't shoot off rockets, blow up buses or kidnap people, maybe?- for a time period say every month, you just give them some money, hope they behave themselves and pray.

900,000,000?

We could take care of the OCTOMOM, her kids and have something left over to feed some of the poor effers in Appalachia here in the states.

Nice going-we'll talk to people, then give them money.
If we can't kill them with kindness, lets give them money to kill someone else.

Maybe we can convince them to be our BFFFs?


Best FN FRIENDS FOREVER!:D:rolleyes::mad:

[momoffuzzyfaces]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29434104

Buyers remorse? Gee, who woulda thunk it? A guy with almost NO real leadership experience.... But gives on hell of a speech. Sounds like, dare I say it? Adolf Hitler?

Change we can believe in!!!! We will all be equally miserable!!! WOO HOO!

(Except our dear leader, he will NEVER feel the pain.....)

Yea, he should just stop trying to clean up the messes of the past Presidents and let our county finish going to hell in a hand basket.

Let all the banks fail, and the stock market too and all the businesses. Who needs em? When we are all poverty stricken we can then start all over from the ground up. At least we will all be equal then. :p

[Puckstop31]

Yea, he should just stop trying to clean up the messes of the past Presidents and let our county finish going to hell in a hand basket.

Let all the banks fail, and the stock market too and all the businesses. Who needs em? When we are all poverty stricken we can then start all over from the ground up. At least we will all be equal then. :p

Tell me how spending money we don't have and raising taxes on the people who make jobs is going to help?

Better yet, learn about the depression of 1920-21. See how we got out of that, FAST. Then see what happened in 1933. See how LONG it took to get out of that one.

There is a lot of culpability to go around, but the lions share of it rests with arrogant and corrupt government..... From both parties. It gets worse with a over educated, under wise, wanna be communist dictator in the White House.

People who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

The government is who created this mess. That's why it needs to change before the mess can be cleaned up. Do you really think that if any other person had been elected, things would have been better? If so, I have a bridge I'll sell you in never never land.

By the way, it was the GOVERNMENT who got us out of the depression by putting people back to work doing work for the states building roads and things. I do know my history. My family lived through it!

And who are they going to raise taxes on, people who have no many now?
:rolleyes:

[Puckstop31]

The government is who created this mess. That's why it needs to change before the mess can be cleaned up.

So 2 wrongs do make a right?


Do you really think that if any other person had been elected, things would have been better? If so, I have a bridge I'll sell you in never never land.

Either of the two main options we were given would have gotten us to this point.

Thats why I voted for Bob Barr.


By the way, it was the GOVERNMENT who got us out of the depression by putting people back to work doing work for the states building roads and things. I do know my history. My family lived through it!

Umm, no. WW2 got us out of the depression. All the first new deal did was make busy work, but it did ZERO to contribute to the long term health of the economy.

Free economies are cyclical, they ebb and flow. The best thing to do is let it ebb and flow. But career politicans can't let that happen. Not when people can't afford their cigarettes or big screen TVs any more. Not when the people who suck on the government tit keep voting for more and more of MY money.

You know your history? Read Cicero. Read the Federalist Papers. Don't regurgitate the BS that is contained in public school textbooks. (Remember, their content is regulated by the feds.... In direct conflict with the 10th Amendment...)


And who are they going to raise taxes on, people who have no many now?
:rolleyes:

No, they are going to tax my business. The US already has the 2nd highest corporate tax rate on Earth. You would not belive the things that are done to hide income. All that is needed is to let us keep OUR money. I'd love to hire 2-3 new techs... But I am holding off, because if Dear Leader raises my taxes, I can't afford to and stay in business.

This is what we get when public schools feed the PC version of history to our kids and we elect a man who has never lead a business , telling business how to run.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Ok, fine!!! Get rid of all government. I hope you have a big gun and are a good shot so you can protect yourself and your business. You will need it to protect yourself from the vultures who will swoop down on you. :eek:

And if war is so great for the economy; we should be all rolling in clover. We've been at war for over 5 years in Iraq!

[lizbud]

And if war is so great for the economy; we should be all rolling in clover. We've been at war for over 5 years in Iraq!


Nice one Moff.:) If pucky is so dissatisfied with the way America
government works, he should either run for office himself or move to
an island far, far away.:D

[cassiesmom]

I just heard on the news that the government is giving AIG even more money because it is too big a corporation, with too much at stake, to be allowed to fail. But I don't understand how the government pouring more and more money into AIG, or large banking corporations, or the big auto makers, is going to make things better for little old me in Chicago. I'm just trying to hang on to my job and my place and keep my old car running since I can't get a loan for a new one. I am thoroughly lost with this whole economic downturn, recession thing. Looks bad to me.

[blue]

Try this.


There Is No Santa



Here is what my George Mason University colleague Professor Richard Wagner wrote, which was published by Office of the House Republican Leader: "Any so-called stimulus program is a ruse. The government can increase its spending only by reducing private spending equivalently. Whether government finances its added spending by increasing taxes, by borrowing, or by inflating the currency, the added spending will be offset by reduced private spending. Furthermore, private spending is generally more efficient than the government spending that would replace it because people act more carefully when they spend their own money than when they spend other people's money." A short translation of Wagner's comment is: There is no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy. Let's examine the ruse.

Suppose the value of all that we will produce in 2009, our gross domestic product (GDP), totals $14 trillion. There cannot be any disagreement that if Congress spends $4 trillion, of necessity there is only $10 trillion left over for us to spend privately. In other words, if Congress is going to spend $4 trillion, it must find a way to get us to spend $4 trillion less. The most open and aboveboard method to force us to spend less privately is to tax us to the tune of $4 trillion.

You might say, "Congress doesn't have to tax us $4 trillion. They could tax us $3 trillion and run a $1 trillion budget deficit." You have that wrong. There is no way for Congress to spend $4 trillion out of our 2009 $14 trillion GDP by getting us to spend only $3 trillion less privately. It has to be $4 trillion less. Another method to force us to spend less privately is to print money and inflate the currency. Rising prices reduce our ability to spend privately since each dollar we hold will not buy as much. Another way is for Congress to borrow, thereby reducing our ability to spend privately. By the way, all of this means that in any real economic sense the federal budget is always balanced. That is, if Congress spends $4 trillion we must privately spend $4 trillion less whether it is accomplished through taxation, inflation or borrowing.

The stimulus package being discussed is politically smart but economically stupid. It's that bedeviling, omnipresent Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy problem again. Let's say that Congress taxes you $500 to put toward creating construction jobs building our infrastructure. The beneficiaries will be quite visible, namely men employed building a road. The victims of Congress are invisible and are only revealed by asking what you would have done with the $500 if it were not taxed away from you. Whatever you would have spent it on would have contributed to someone's employment. That person is invisible. Politicians love it when the victims of their policies are invisible and the beneficiaries visible. Why? Because the beneficiaries know for whom to vote and the victims do not know who is to blame for their plight.

In stimulus package language, if Congress taxes to hand out money, one person is stimulated at the expense of another, who pays the tax, who is unstimulated. A visual representation of the stimulus package is: Imagine you see a person at work taking buckets of water from the deep end of a swimming pool and dumping them into the shallow end in an attempt to make it deeper. You would deem him stupid. That scenario is equivalent to what Congress and the new president proposes for the economy. A far more important measure that Congress can take toward a healthy economy is to ensure that the 2003 tax cuts don't expire in 2010 as scheduled. If not, there are 15 separate taxes scheduled to rise in 2010, costing Americans $200 billion a year in increased taxes. In the face of a recession, we don't need that.

[blue]

Nice one Moff.:) If pucky is so dissatisfied with the way America
government works, he should either run for office himself or move to
an island far, far away.:D

If Lizzy is so dissatisfied with the way American Government was supposed to work, and worked for 200 years, she should move rather then make America like the governments she so admires.

[Puckstop31]

Ok, fine!!! Get rid of all government. I hope you have a big gun and are a good shot so you can protect yourself and your business. You will need it to protect yourself from the vultures who will swoop down on you. :eek:

And if war is so great for the economy; we should be all rolling in clover. We've been at war for over 5 years in Iraq!

Did I say get rid of all government? Heck no. Good grief. LOL

But the ROLE of government here is, IMO, WAY, WAY more involved in our lives than it should be. I believe in the individual and giving the individual as much personal liberty as possible. Because at our core, I know we are a GOOD people. We are not the people the news and our schools tells you we are.

I do have several big guns and I am more than capable of using them to protect myself, my familiy and those I love. I PRAY that I never, ever have to.

LOL. I love how you and the cheerleader think Iraq is a war comparable to WW2. I thought you said you knew your history? During WW2, our country mobilized on a massive scale. The US mobilized 92 ground combat divisions, a huge Navy and Air Force and the structures to move and supply it. This kind of mobilization requires huge efforts from industry... (Jobs, jobs, jobs...) Now granted, this money was provided from the public coffers, but it was spent, mostly, on things that created REAL jobs and products/services. The size of our force has barely changed for Iraq as it is a wholly differnt kind of conflict, that I personally belive is time to be done with. There has been nowhere near the amount of industry required to support opertations in Iraq/Afghanistan, compared to WW2.


Again, with your "arguements" as proof.... Those who do not understand our history (IN CONTEXT) are doomed to repeat it.

[RICHARD]

The US mobilized 92 ground combat divisions, a huge Navy and Air Force and the structures to move and supply it. This kind of mobilization requires huge efforts from industry... (Jobs, jobs, jobs...) Now granted, this money was provided from the public coffers, but it was spent, mostly, on things that created REAL jobs and products/services.

Agreed,
One of the giant changes in the world since "the Wall" came a tumblin' down is the fact that we didn't have to produce /make/design materials/concepts or systems to keep the 'evil USSR' from taking over the planet.

We now find out that they were indeed a paper tiger, but the industries that those shmucks forced us to build were great for our economy.

GM, Raytheon, Martin, Lockheed all had HUGE government contracts and were giants among the economy here in So Cal. I can imagine that most of the workers never thought about what they did was really devoted to war.

Do we need a good war to improve our economy?

I pray that we don't, but sometimes it looks like that's what happens to get countries out of an economic funk.

------------------------

Hey, if the 900,000,000 BO has promised to the Gaza Strip helps the Hamas, Hezbollah and PLO keep attacking Israel we stand to make the money back and then some, when we sell more arms and shiat that blows up in arms deals.

Then we get blamed for selling them arms, while the American Public forgets that we sent those morons (GAZA) money that they just funnel into more terrorism! Not a blip on the screen from anyone about the nine hundred million dollars that we will give away-those are the kinds of investments that got us into trouble in the first place.


Change? I don't think so.:rolleyes:

[RICHARD]

LOL, I can see that my tax dollars are running the WH in times of war against nasty radio show hosts, Like the economy is tanking dude and all you care about is a blow hard talking head?

Even GWB had his stinky fingers in more than one dish at a time!
This guy cannot multitask at all1

[blue]

Its all part of distracting the public from the massive tax increases, and its targeting the middle class and poor.

[RICHARD]

I heard that Kay King, lapdog for the SOTH -Nancy the blitherer-sent some really funny emails to the Air Force regarding their inability to furnish her with the G5 jets she 'needed' to get around.

Very funny and very demanding.

What a stupid pair of twits.:D

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29616975/

LOL, if MSNBC posts it, it must be true?

[blue]

Nancy the blitherer is third in line for the big chair. Of course she deserves a G5 and fighter jet escort to Calli every weekend, you cant expect her to stay in touch with her constituent's by flying comercial.

[RICHARD]

Nancy the blitherer is third in line for the big chair. Of course she deserves a G5 and fighter jet escort to Calli every weekend, you cant expect her to stay in touch with her constituent's by flying comercial.

I can hardly wait for election time so we can get rid of N the B, Baba Boxer and Diane Frankenstein.

-----------

And whats the deal with Maxine "the mouth" Waters. What a fricking blowhard that fool is. This week I was buoyed by Jackie Speiers (sp?) She doesn't want the bailout money for Cah Lee Fuh Nee Ah!:eek::D

She renewed my faith in CA politics and the women who run the state!:D

---------

I heard that that SOB OBL made a tape and mentioned the Gaza Strip........

After we promised to give them 900 million the FN ingrate is criticizing us?


Why, I otta.......

[lizbud]

I heard that Kay King, lapdog for the SOTH -Nancy the blitherer-sent some really funny emails to the Air Force regarding their inability to furnish her with the G5 jets she 'needed' to get around.

Very funny and very demanding.

What a stupid pair of twits.:D

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29616975/

LOL, if MSNBC posts it, it must be true?


Richard, Richard, tsk tsk, you must expand your reading library. Try this
link to better distinguish truth from rumors. It won't hurt a bit, I promise.:)

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/sliming_pelosi.html