Politics and religion.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I said nothing about the "same opportunity". I said the "same working conditions."

Big difference.

Most union employees - private or public work very hard as well.

Your attitude toward those who are not you is typical.

Your attitude is precisely the reason some employees feel the need for a union.

People do not like patronizing elitists.

Go figure....

[Puckstop31]

I said nothing about the "same opportunity". I said the "same working conditions."

Big difference.

Most union employees - private or public work very hard as well.

Your attitude toward those who are not you is typical.

Your attitude is precisely the reason some employees feel the need for a union.

I think that when a person chooses to join a union, that act is the one of denying themselves the working conditions I enjoy. I never forced anyone to join a union.

Did I ever say that most don't work hard? Of course I didn't. You need that the be the paradigm so your arguement works. The 'bad guy' to you has to be MEAN. You 'progressives' are so predictable. Everyone is some sort of victim, except the people who actually make it to the top. Success is bad for the people who are not, right?

I'd never, ever, hold any one back who wants to really chase their own happiness. When you really shoot for that star, you are going to fall down, often. If you wait around for somebody top pick you up, you get passed.


So, if that is the attitude you are talking about, my belief that any individual can attain whatever their dreams are, on their own...*** Wicked.

ETA: Allow me to preclude a possible responce. I realized that something I said could be taken the wrong way.

"On their own"... Of course I did not get where I am ALL on my own. I have a supportive family, friends, vendors, employees, and clients who helped us (us, my employees benefit as well... Bringing others along on my success if you will.) I am on my own in that the only group I belong to that helps me along is being a United States Citizen.

Nothing can compete with free individuals chasing their dreams. THAT is something I can get united on.

[wombat2u2004]

Unions are a bunch of commo's here.
They'll not give a second thought about sending an honest businessman or employer broke.
When I had my building company I never hired a union member. Why ???
Because they are troublemakers and think that the world owes them a living.
Not true. I studied at night for 7 long years plus worked physically on building sites by day to get my licence, whilst others sat in the pub and drank beer all day.
Do I owe them ???? Nope....nothing.
The men I employed, worked hard, were paid well, and everyone was happy.
No unionists in my outfit. Ya wanna join the union ??? Then hang up ya hammer, cos ya ain't welcome in my team.

[Bonny]

I think that when a person chooses to join a union, that act is the one of denying themselves the working conditions I enjoy. I never forced anyone to join a union.

Did I ever say that most don't work hard? Of course I didn't. You need that the be the paradigm so your arguement works. The 'bad guy' to you has to be MEAN. You 'progressives' are so predictable. Everyone is some sort of victim, except the people who actually make it to the top. Success is bad for the people who are not, right?

I'd never, ever, hold any one back who wants to really chase their own happiness. When you really shoot for that star, you are going to fall down, often. If you wait around for somebody top pick you up, you get passed.


So, if that is the attitude you are talking about, my belief that any individual can attain whatever their dreams are, on their own...*** Wicked.

ETA: Allow me to preclude a possible responce. I realized that something I said could be taken the wrong way.

"On their own"... Of course I did not get where I am ALL on my own. I have a supportive family, friends, vendors, employees, and clients who helped us (us, my employees benefit as well... Bringing others along on my success if you will.) I am on my own in that the only group I belong to that helps me along is being a United States Citizen.

Nothing can compete with free individuals chasing their dreams. THAT is something I can get united on.

Pucky, Do you have profit sharing & benefits in your business? Years ago I worked for a small privately owned publishing company they did have union workers with apprentices that eventually worked their way into the union (bindery & pressmen). Just curious to know how things have changed over the last 46 years with small business which I would rather work for any day But with the option to join a union too.

[Puckstop31]

Pucky, Do you have profit sharing & benefits in your business? Years ago I worked for a small privately owned publishing company they did have union workers with apprentices that eventually worked their way into the union (bindery & pressmen). Just curious to know how things have changed over the last 46 years with small business which I would rather work for any day But with the option to join a union too.

Yes. At the end of the year, we give all employees a bonus based on net profit and time with the company. Nothing is guaranteed on that front, but we are open about it. We give a run down of the yearly financials at a special meeting in January. We also offer a health insurance plan and a 401k (Oppenheimer) with a 3% company match.

Also, we all get automatic raises for earning Microsoft certifications that help us get new competencies in the Microsoft Partner Program. That is a open offer and totally on the employee to do.

[Bonny]

The incentive to improve yourself as an employee & adding to the companies progressiveness is right up there. A+++

[Edwina's Secretary]

What uppity hooey.

Apparently some people's knowledge of American history and what made this country great does not include the industrial revolution. (Pity. But then, it goes with the incorrect use of "paradigm" and the bad spelling. Education is everything!)

But it might help them understand this quote (which yes, I have quoted before)..."as you are to the least of my people...so shall you be onto me."

I have represented management in election campaigns with the Teamsters, the UAW, the Machinists. I have negotiated union contracts with (not against) the Teamsters, Machinists, IBEW, and the CTM. I have "won" more than I "lost."

Let me make something clear - I am the granddaughter of a poor immigrant. But I am not a victim. I own my own company. I have never belonged to a union. No one in my family has ever belonged to a union. Everyone in my family is a college graduate with a professional career.

But every member of my family understands what it means to struggle to achieve. They understand the need for a level playing field.

I do not expect others to be just like me. There are far more intelligent and capable people than me. And there are those who have not had the advantages I have had. And there are people who work for employers that deserve unions. And there are people who work for employers that do not deserve unions.

That doesn't make them victims. Nor inferior. Nor superior.

But I cannot abide people who say..."I did not need a union - so no one else does."

Elitist. Arrogant. Ignorant.

[Puckstop31]

This is my last post on the topic. So, feel free to get the last word when I am done if your little ego requires it.


What uppity hooey.

Apparently some people's knowledge of American history and what made this country great does not include the industrial revolution. (Pity. But then, it goes with the incorrect use of "paradigm" and the bad spelling. Education is everything!)

And I'm the elitist? LOL

"Education is EVERYthing?"

Again... I'M the elitist? Bill Gates may beg to differ. But what do I know?

Of course I know the history of the industrial revolution. What, are you trying to get me to say "that was then and this is now?"


But it might help them understand this quote (which yes, I have quoted before)..."as you are to the least of my people...so shall you be onto me."

Wow. You know my charitable giving habits? Smart AND clairvoyant! WOW!

Yes, i'm a big meanie because I want people to succeed.

Just because I don't agree with you, i'm a big evil meanie? Again, you 'progressive' types are SO predictable. The "other guys" HAVE to be mean for your arguement to hold water.


And there are people who work for employers that deserve unions. And there are people who work for employers that do not deserve unions.

That doesn't make them victims. Nor inferior. Nor superior.

But I cannot abide people who say..."I did not need a union - so no one else does."

This is why progressives always lose the arguement when it sees the light of day. You always have to turn the tables on the arguement and put words into peoples mouths. Did I say no one else deserves a union? Nope. All I am saying is that when a person makes a choice to join a union, there are benefits and there are consequneces. Period.

As to public employee unions.... I've said I do not agree with how the WI governor is trying to do this. But I DO agree that a public employee union cannot have the same unlimited bargaining rights as a union that works "with" a private company.



Elitist. Arrogant. Ignorant.

As it always is if one does not agree with the all knowing ES.

How do you get away with calling people names? I want in on that cabal.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

So, what does everyone think of Charlie Sheen? :love:

[wombat2u2004]

This is my last post on the topic. So, feel free to get the last word when I am done if your little ego requires it.


As you slide down the bannister of life Pucky, you will sometimes get a splinter in the butt. But never mind old mate, it's just dead wood. ;)

[wombat2u2004]

So, what does everyone think of Charlie Sheen? :love:

I really don't know what happened. There is another thread that says "2 men and a kid" has been axed because he went nuts or something ????
Can anyone enlighten me ???
I mean, I've always liked him....I think he's a good actor.

[Grace]

So, what does everyone think of Charlie Sheen? :love:

I think Charlie and Moamer Kadhafi are cut from the same cloth. They both appear to be delusional, totally out of touch with reality :rolleyes:

[wombat2u2004]

I think Charlie and Moamer Kadhafi are cut from the same cloth. They both appear to be delusional, totally out of touch with reality :rolleyes:

Gaddafi is a ratbag....he always has been.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Kadhafi was saying on the news that all the protesters in his country really LOVE him. Yea, right! So why are you killing them bird brain? :rolleyes:

[Karen]

I really don't know what happened. There is another thread that says "2 men and a kid" has been axed because he went nuts or something ????
Can anyone enlighten me ???
I mean, I've always liked him....I think he's a good actor.

It's been an escalating cycle of acting out, culminating in the last week or so with several media interviews, in which he said all sorts of regrettable things sounding pretty egotistical, and maybe insane, insulting the shows producers and staff, etc.. See any US "entertainment" site for more info ...

[cassiesmom]

So, what does everyone think of Charlie Sheen? :love:

I heard part of his radio interview from the Alex Jones show. He was talking about a mile a minute- the interviewer couldn't get a word in edgewise. And what he said made very little sense. I'm thinking he's either manic/bipolar or had taken too much medication (legal or otherwise). His behavior over the past year or so has been very erratic.

[RICHARD]

U.S. - get out of North America.

[blue]

What uppity hooey.

Apparently some people's knowledge of American history and what made this country great does not include the industrial revolution. (Pity. But then, it goes with the incorrect use of "paradigm" and the bad spelling. Education is everything!)

But it might help them understand this quote (which yes, I have quoted before)..."as you are to the least of my people...so shall you be onto me."

I have represented management in election campaigns with the Teamsters, the UAW, the Machinists. I have negotiated union contracts with (not against) the Teamsters, Machinists, IBEW, and the CTM. I have "won" more than I "lost."

Let me make something clear - I am the granddaughter of a poor immigrant. But I am not a victim. I own my own company. I have never belonged to a union. No one in my family has ever belonged to a union. Everyone in my family is a college graduate with a professional career.

But every member of my family understands what it means to struggle to achieve. They understand the need for a level playing field.

I do not expect others to be just like me. There are far more intelligent and capable people than me. And there are those who have not had the advantages I have had. And there are people who work for employers that deserve unions. And there are people who work for employers that do not deserve unions.

That doesn't make them victims. Nor inferior. Nor superior.

But I cannot abide people who say..."I did not need a union - so no one else does."

Elitist. Arrogant. Ignorant.

Did the union or the tax payer pay for your service?

If the unions paid your bill I have no problem with you. If you ever negotiated a union contract on tax payers dollars, our problem will continue.

[wombat2u2004]

It's been an escalating cycle of acting out, culminating in the last week or so with several media interviews, in which he said all sorts of regrettable things sounding pretty egotistical, and maybe insane, insulting the shows producers and staff, etc.. See any US "entertainment" site for more info ...

Thanks for that K. Yes, I can see he's really turned into a Looney Toon.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Disagree with Eliminating Bargaining Rights (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/02/6171265-nbcwsj-poll-62-against-stripping-public-employees-bargaining-rights)

According to a poll by NBC News and the Wall Street Journal 62% of Americans oppose the plan of the governor of Wisconsin.

[Bonny]

Did the union or the tax payer pay for your service?

If the unions paid your bill I have no problem with you. If you ever negotiated a union contract on tax payers dollars, our problem will continue.

Edwina Secretary you never answered the question? I am interested in knowing?

Unions are necessary believe me, especially if you are working for a large cooperation like UPS. They walk all over their employees & even do with a union in place. They have great benefits, pay is good, but boy you better not scratch the paint on their vehicles & it is written up as an accident. Three accidents or any speeding tickets even on your own personal time & you are fired.

[Puckstop31]

An interesting blog post. There is a link in this post to another interesting post of his as well.

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2011/03/libya-and-second-amendment.html

[wombat2u2004]

An interesting blog post. There is a link in this post to another interesting post of his as well.

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2011/03/libya-and-second-amendment.html

That was a good read Puck.
But there are a couple of small typo's, and also I think they missed out on a comma somewhere.
You know "Education is everything"....so therefore I will just have to discount the whole blog. ;)

[cassiesmom]

So, what does everyone think of Charlie Sheen? :love:


I heard part of his radio interview from the Alex Jones show. He was talking about a mile a minute- the interviewer couldn't get a word in edgewise. And what he said made very little sense. I'm thinking he's either manic/bipolar or had taken too much medication (legal or otherwise). His behavior over the past year or so has been very erratic.

I can't help but wonder... don't narcissists thrive on other people's attention to them? So what would happen if Charlie Sheen suddenly stopped being tabloid front-page news? He's become so bizarre; just swing the cameras toward someone else for awhile.

[Edwina's Secretary]

That was a good read Puck.
But there are a couple of small typo's, and also I think they missed out on a comma somewhere.
You know "Education is everything"....so therefore I will just have to discount the whole blog. ;)

I think you should just accept the "paradigm" of it..."per say"...:D:D:D:D

[blue]

Edwina Secretary you never answered the question? I am interested in knowing?

Its part of her M.O. Most union contracts dictate that the other party, not the union, pays for the negotiator. So if ES, or her company, negotiated for any union against the tax payers, odds are the tax payers paid for her or her companies services.


Unions are necessary believe me, especially if you are working for a large cooperation like UPS. They walk all over their employees & even do with a union in place. They have great benefits, pay is good, but boy you better not scratch the paint on their vehicles & it is written up as an accident. Three accidents or any speeding tickets even on your own personal time & you are fired.

Unions are necessary as a reminder to bosses, owners, corporations, and ceos and stockholders you frak with us we can shut you down. Ill walk away or bide my time till I can get a better job then rather then willingly join a union. At my new job Ive already pissed off the IBEW members, Ive told them Ill sign the card to listen to their speal but I would vote no to organize. I was on the IBEW blacklist early on as an electrician and that was the best decision for both the union and me.

Ive never worked for a company as large as the one that currently employs me, but if somebody I outperform gets ahead because of time spent rather then performance Im gone.

[Lady's Human]

Its part of her M.O. Most union contracts dictate that the other party, not the union, pays for the negotiator. So if ES, or her company, negotiated for any union against the tax payers, odds are the tax payers paid for her or her companies services.


Wrong. Both sides have their own negotiators, paid for by the individual parties.

[blue]

Wrong. Both sides have their own negotiators, paid for by the individual parties.

But if its a public labor union, wouldnt the tax payers pay for both sides?

ETA: The USPS is paid by forced public dollars and taxes. So any USPS negotiator is paid for by Gov force with tax dollars.

[Lady's Human]

But if its a public labor union, wouldnt the tax payers pay for both sides?

ETA: The USPS is paid by forced public dollars and taxes. So any USPS negotiator is paid for by Gov force with tax dollars.

The Union side is paid for by the dues collections from the salaries of the workers who are Union members.

As to the USPS being funded by taxpayer money, that isn't even remotely true. Outside of the money paid by Congress for free mailing for the blind, the USPS collects no tax money.

Any more myths you'd like to perpetuate?

[Bonny]

The Union side is paid for by the dues collections from the salaries of the workers who are Union members.

As to the USPS being funded by taxpayer money, that isn't even remotely true. Outside of the money paid by Congress for free mailing for the blind, the USPS collects no tax money.

Any more myths you'd like to perpetuate?

Not trying to perpetuate anything. So if you don't join the USPS Union you are out of luck if you lose your job. Or you have to pay someone to represent you & then hopefully get your job back if you are fired. Then if you should get your job back would it be a living hell at the work place. Maybe that is why there have been so many shootings?

[Lady's Human]

By decision of the USSC, the Union has to represent everyone who works under the Contract(s), whether or not they're a scab.

If you get fired from the Post Office, chances are better than even you'll get your job back, unless you were fired for a felony. Management is so competent in the USPS that regardless of how many times they lose a removal case they keep screwing up the same issues.

Management is the party who makes life in the Post Office so much fun. They are largely people who couldn't hack it in craft for one reason or another, and were promoted to a supervisory position where they couldn't do much damage. Unfortunately, they Post Office also promotes from within soo...........

There is a major call from NAPS (National Association of Postal Supervisors) for the USPS to do something about the little tyrants who are in charge, but change is hard to come by, because they'd have to remove their fellow executives. Instead of firing them, they just get moved from place to place until they retire.

[Puckstop31]

I think you should just accept the "paradigm" of it..."per say"...:D:D:D:D

Lets see...

Dictionary.com

Paradigm-
1. Grammar .
a. a set of forms all of which contain a particular element, especially the set of all inflected forms based on a single stem or theme.
b. a display in fixed arrangement of such a set, as boy, boy's, boys, boys'.
2. an example serving as a model; pattern.
Use paradigm in a Sentence
See images of paradigm
Search paradigm on the Web

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1475–85; < Late Latin paradīgma < Greek parádeigma pattern (verbid of paradeiknýnai to show side by side), equivalent to para- para-1 + deik-, base of deiknýnai to show ( see deictic) + -ma noun suffix


—Synonyms
2. mold, standard; ideal, paragon, touchstone."


I can accept a misuse of a word. I certainly was not an English major. My admittedly poor use of written communication is probably why I was just a "B-" student. I've just always been a better public speaker as opposed to being a writer.

Perhaps you (or any of the other English majors out there?) can explain to me how I used the word incorrectly? I ask because I was trying to convey that you needed the "standard, current thought, commonly understood standard, etc..." to be what I described.

[blue]

The Union side is paid for by the dues collections from the salaries of the workers who are Union members.

As to the USPS being funded by taxpayer money, that isn't even remotely true. Outside of the money paid by Congress for free mailing for the blind, the USPS collects no tax money.

Any more myths you'd like to perpetuate?

No. I have to apologize for my spreading of myths and untruths. I did not think my argument through and did zero research.

I do appreciate your answers, and for correcting me.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I can't help but wonder... don't narcissists thrive on other people's attention to them? So what would happen if Charlie Sheen suddenly stopped being tabloid front-page news? He's become so bizarre; just swing the cameras toward someone else for awhile.

Charlie Who??? :D:D:D

p.s. - I too hate to perpetuate but...never did I say I did any work for or in the public sector. Never have. I have always worked in the private sector - directly for many years and as a consultant. Nor did I say my company does contract negotiations. We do not.

But do carry on!

[Edwina's Secretary]

. So if you don't join the USPS Union you are out of luck if you lose your job. Or you have to pay someone to represent you & then hopefully get your job back if you are fired. Then if you should get your job back would it be a living hell at the work place.

Bonny - here's a little of how it works in the private sector...

The National Labor Relations Board sets the rules for the private sector. If the employees of a company vote to be represented by a union (btw...number one reason - as LH so pointly demonstrates - poor supervisors) then the company and the union begin negotiations. One of the first topics - will it be an open shop or closed shop? In a closed shop you must, after a reasonable probationary period, join the union. "Union member in good standing" is a condition of employment. In an open shop you do not have to join the union. You will still be entitled to all the benefits - wage and benefits negotiated and representation by the union if you feel you have been treated unfairly. I do not know how well represented, but represented nonetheless.

You don't find many open shops except in Right to Work states. (Not to be confused with Employment at Will - that has nothing to do with unions!)

Right to Work states, Arizona and Iowa are two that come to mind, prohibit requiring union membership as a condition of employment.

Just as they say "there are no atheists in foxholes" nothing makes a "union lover" faster than an employee whose job is on the line!

[Bonny]

By decision of the USSC, the Union has to represent everyone who works under the Contract(s), whether or not they're a scab.

If you get fired from the Post Office, chances are better than even you'll get your job back, unless you were fired for a felony. Management is so competent in the USPS that regardless of how many times they lose a removal case they keep screwing up the same issues.

Management is the party who makes life in the Post Office so much fun. They are largely people who couldn't hack it in craft for one reason or another, and were promoted to a supervisory position where they couldn't do much damage. Unfortunately, they Post Office also promotes from within soo...........

There is a major call from NAPS (National Association of Postal Supervisors) for the USPS to do something about the little tyrants who are in charge, but change is hard to come by, because they'd have to remove their fellow executives. Instead of firing them, they just get moved from place to place until they retire.

Talking about management UPS seems to be able to get rid of their management but the USPS has to hang on to the idiots? Why can't they kick them out the door too? There is nothing like having to work under an idiot?:mad:

[Grace]

Does he really think people will buy this :confused: :eek: :confused:


Gingrich: Love of country contributed to affair

Newt Gingrich says his passion for his country contributed to his marital infidelity. In an interview posted Wednesday by The Christian Broadcasting Network, Gingrich - who recently converted to Catholicism - said he had sought God's forgiveness for mistakes in his past.


source (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GINGRICH_2012?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-09-16-48-51)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Does he really think people will buy this :confused: :eek: :confused:

source (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GINGRICH_2012?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-09-16-48-51)

I read today it is every comedian's dream. Think of the joke potential as he has left two wives - all I suppose because his passion for his job overcame his passion for his wife? Are we to assume, if elected president, he will fool around because of his passion for the job? Or will he not be passionate for his job and instead be faithful to his third wife?

Catholic is his third religion as well. I guess three is his lucky number?

That he was going after Clinton for having an extra-marital affair at the same time HE was having an extra-marital affair.

And don't you always wonder - how does it make wife number one and wife number two feel when he waxes on about how this marriage is the right one....

But it is all okay because he has asked God for forgiveness....oh please!

[phesina]

The boundless hypocrisy of Mr. Gingrich here.. with nice-Catholic-Wife#3 Callista with whom he was having a nice Catholic affair while still married to Wife #2.. just takes my breath away.

"What I can tell you is that when I did things that were wrong, I wasn't trapped in situation ethics, ... "

SITUATION ETHICS? HUH?????

"I was doing things that were wrong, and yet, I was doing them," he said. "I found that I felt compelled to seek God's forgiveness. Not God's understanding, but God's forgiveness."

GOD'S UNDERSTANDING? HUH?????????

Oh, it will be SO much fun if he does decide to run!

[Edwina's Secretary]

"I was doing things that were wrong, and yet, I was doing them," he said. "I found that I felt compelled to seek God's forgiveness. Not God's understanding, but God's forgiveness."

GOD'S UNDERSTANDING? HUH?????????

Oh, it will be SO much fun if he does decide to run!

Not wife number 2's understanding, not wife number 2's forgiveness????

(But of course, he was screwing her while still married to wife number one - to whom he presented his divorce demands while she was in hospital recovering from cancer surgery...so I suppose - to Newt's way of thinking - wife number 2 had it coming? After all...she DID fool around with a married man....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:)

Bring him on.

[Grace]

And let us not forget Mike Huckabee. He has the temerity to admonish Natalie Portman for being pregnant and unmarried after being less critical of Bristol Palin for doing the same thing.

Even Elisabeth Hasselbeck got on his case about that - “I think Mike Huckabee is a good guy when it comes down to it … but I really honestly beg [fellow conservatives] to kind of decide whether you’re going to condemn abortion or condemn women having children,”

[Lady's Human]

If the extremists on the right and left continue to be left in charge of their respective parties then all we can expect is more of the same.

Newt and Huckabee are both severely damaged goods, and wouldn't survive the primaries (one hopes). Too many chinks in their armor for them to survive the media firestorm which would ensue if they actually were nominated.

Both the far right and the far left need to learn a few lessons........overreach does no one any good.

Eliminating collective bargaining rights for public employees in Wisconsin is going to cost the GOP just as dearly in 2012 as the foibles of the Democrat Congresas and Senate cost them in the last election.

The idealogues need to be put where they belong, on talk radio and on the Opinion page of the newspaper. You cannot build a concensus from an absolutist position.

[cassiesmom]

I heard on news radio that the people in Libya who are anti-Qaddafi (sp?) are upset at the U.S. for not coming to their assistance. And that the U.S. can't appear to take the side of the opposition, but also can't appear to the rest of the world to support Qaddafi because it's generally thought that he needs to go. The commentator said the best option for the U.S. at this point is to continue to encourage Qaddafi to leave, and to look at other non-military options. Is that accurate? (I missed the beginning of the story) If we want Qaddafi gone, why can't we publicly take that position? And what's the relationship between a might/might not happen situation in Libya and oil prices?


Thanks,
elyse

[wombat2u2004]

I heard on news radio that the people in Libya who are anti-Qaddafi (sp?) are upset at the U.S. for not coming to their assistance. And that the U.S. can't appear to take the side of the opposition, but also can't appear to the rest of the world to support Qaddafi because it's generally thought that he needs to go. The commentator said the best option for the U.S. at this point is to continue to encourage Qaddafi to leave, and to look at other non-military options. Is that accurate? (I missed the beginning of the story) If we want Qaddafi gone, why can't we publicly take that position? And what's the relationship between a might/might not happen situation in Libya and oil prices?


Thanks,
elyse

Awwwww....they are upset about that ???? Maybe we should all go over there and sit and hold their hands for a while, maybe a shoulder to cry on.
Perhaps then they would give us a discount on the oil ????
I'm waiting to see what kind of fruitcake will replace Gaddafi.

[RICHARD]

When the posters reply
and you just don't know why
That's semantics.....:confused:

Sorry UPS....;)

[Grace]

For those of you in Massachusetts, did you know "the shot heard round the world" was fired in New Hampshire :confused:

American history, as written by Michele Bachmann. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51179.html)

[Edwina's Secretary]

For those of you in Massachusetts, did you know "the shot heard round the world" was fired in New Hampshire :confused:

American history, as written by Michele Bachmann. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51179.html)

She is quite cute as well. Think we can ship her off to Australia with the other historian?

[blue]

Keep digging that hole ladies.

[Grace]

She is quite cute as well. Think we can ship her off to Australia with the other historian?

I agree - she is quite attractive. And another plus for her - she didn't up and quit halfway through her first term in Congress. She stuck it out and is now in her third term. She also has 5 children, and has been a foster mom to 23.

I think Wom is the perfect answer - he seems to have more knowledge of American history than she does :D

[phesina]

For those of you in Massachusetts, did you know "the shot heard round the world" was fired in New Hampshire :confused:

American history, as written by Michele Bachmann. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51179.html)

When I lived in New England I often visited Concord and Lexington, NH.

[wombat2u2004]

I think Wom is the perfect answer - he seems to have more knowledge of American history than she does :D

Thankyou Gretchen.
She would be a sweet partner to have.
She has looks AND a sense of humour....now that TWO plus's.
I gotta tell ya.....there's some people here who have less sense of humour than a house brick.....the ones that THINK they are educated ;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sadly she lacks a brain to go with her looks and "sense of humor."

This was a prepared speech - not an "off-the-cuff." Doesn't she have some handlers who can connect the state she is in (physically ;)) with the appropiate information.

What she did would be a bit like making a speech in Alaska extolling the Civil War battles fought there.

[Grace]

It's not only long-ago history - she gets recent events wrong, also.


"I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out under another, then under another Democrat president, Jimmy Carter. I'm not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it's an interesting coincidence." -Rep. Michele Bachmann, on the 1976 Swine Flu outbreak that happened when Gerald Ford, a Republican, was President. (April 28, 2009)


This is the woman who wants to have lessons on the Constitution given to all Congressmen and women :rolleyes: At the very least, she should have someone proof-read her comments.

[Grace]

Thankyou Gretchen.
She would be a sweet partner to have.
She has looks AND a sense of humour....now that TWO plus's.
I gotta tell ya.....there's some people here who have less sense of humour than a house brick.....the ones that THINK they are educated ;)

I don't know who you are referencing here, John. I do know that I would prefer that people who represent me in Congress and/or Senate and/or White House have some semblance of knowledge. If one is going to speak about events that are documented in history books, one should be darn sure one has the facts correct, or one risks looking like a fool. If one does not know, one should keep one's mouth shut.

[Edwina's Secretary]

It must be difficult keeping history straight when you are busy worrying about ...light bulbs (http://100gf.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/michele-bachmann-vs-light-bulbs-information/)

This is what gets me about many of the Tea Party and their ilk....they prattle on about "The Founding Fathers" while being so ignorant about "The Founding Fathers." So they just rewrite history they way they think it should have been. Putting Lexington and Concord in New Hampshire - okay - many people are not good at geography :rolleyes: - but to say those "Founding Fathers" "worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States."

What...:eek::eek::eek:

The Declaration of Independence was 1776. The Civil War started in 1860. The 13th amendment went into law in 1865.

And they still weren't tired after working on something for 90 years? How old were these guys when finally "slavery was no more"? 150? Wow... Wouldn't it have been easier to write a constitution that prohibited slavery in the first place?

That depth of ignorance is startling on so many levels.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

If they were so concerned about making 'slavery no more' why did some of them own slaves, eh George Washington? :love:

[Bonny]

It must be difficult keeping history straight when you are busy worrying about ...light bulbs (http://100gf.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/michele-bachmann-vs-light-bulbs-information/)

This is what gets me about many of the Tea Party and their ilk....they prattle on about "The Founding Fathers" while being so ignorant about "The Founding Fathers." So they just rewrite history they way they think it should have been. Putting Lexington and Concord in New Hampshire - okay - many people are not good at geography :rolleyes: - but to say those "Founding Fathers" "worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States."

What...:eek::eek::eek:

The Declaration of Independence was 1776. The Civil War started in 1860. The 13th amendment went into law in 1865.

And they still weren't tired after working on something for 90 years? How old were these guys when finally "slavery was no more"? 150? Wow... Wouldn't it have been easier to write a constitution that prohibited slavery in the first place?

That depth of ignorance is startling on so many levels.

Those new light bulbs aren't living up to what they said they would. The light is dim & proper disposal is a problem. It is like nuclear power plant waste & what to do with it?

Weren't a good part of our founding fathers slave owners?:confused:

[Grace]

Weren't a good part of our founding fathers slave owners?:confused:


Yes they were - which begs the question what was MB thinking of when she said this -

"the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States....Men like John Quincy Adams, who would not rest until slavery was extinguished in the country."


Not only did she get the bit about slavery wrong, John Quincy Adams was only 9 years old while the Founding Fathers were doing their thing. She obviously got father and son mixed up along with the other errors.

[Edwina's Secretary]

And...John Quincy Adams died in 1848....still well before slavery was no more in the United States. He must have had a rather "unrestful" time in the grave for 20 years or so.

I wonder if Michelle Bachman knows her hero - John Quincy Adams - was a fan of high tarriffs (aka taxes) to be used to build infrastructure such as roads and canals and of a national bank?

Isn't that the kind of stuff the Tea Party doesn't like?

[wombat2u2004]

I don't know who you are referencing here, John. I do know that I would prefer that people who represent me in Congress and/or Senate and/or White House have some semblance of knowledge. If one is going to speak about events that are documented in history books, one should be darn sure one has the facts correct, or one risks looking like a fool. If one does not know, one should keep one's mouth shut.

Some semblance of knowledge ???? Well I'm sure she does have that.
Perhaps her forte is knowing more important things than history. Is she supposed to know EVERYTHING ???? Or do you think she should do what other so called smart people do....when in doubt consult a book ???? (Says a lot for knowledge that SMART people are supposed to have in the first place). :D

I find the woman unpretentious and well grounded in common sense....now that's gotta be better than some of the yoyo's who are in power who probably know the middle name of the first slave in the USA, but know buckley's about running a chook raffle.
I mean gee.......you have an ex movie star and body builder in power in Cal.,
because he is married to a Kennedy and has lots and lots of money ???? Says a lot for the voters in Cal. doesn't it ??? But you know, I'm just an Aussie, with my own humble opinion....who am I to suggest that Daffy Duck is more intelligent than Arnold.
Ya gotta look deeper than the big words and the bucks old mate. ;)

Disclaimer: Whilst every effort has been made to maintain correct spelling, perfect positioning of smilies, capital letters where required, a perfect understanding of what a GOP is etc etc; the writer cannot be held responsible for minor mistakes made in this post. The writer hereby "Without Prejudice" ADMITS that he has not a clue as to where the first shot was fired during your Civil War (but he does know how to build an Olympic Village).

[wombat2u2004]

Those new light bulbs aren't living up to what they said they would. The light is dim & proper disposal is a problem. It is like nuclear power plant waste & what to do with it?

I'm getting a little confuzzed here.
Everyone is carrying on about light bulbs and a polly's inadequate knowledge of history whilst nothing is being done about Arizona's problems.
Oh my goodness !!!! My house has just fell down. I'd better go cut the grass. :p

[Edwina's Secretary]

My definition of a "smart" or "educated" person is someone who knows what they don't know, know how to find out what they don't know and keeps an open mind to the answer.

Bachman does not know the basics - things most people in the US learn in 5th or 6th grade. If she didn't know what state the revolution started in...if she didn't know the position of the "Founding Fathers" on slavery, she could use Wikipedia - before opening her mouth and proving her embarassing ignorance.

Even an Aussie should be able to do the same. Arnold Schwartzenagger is no longer governor of California. By the way, he is also a Republican - so the Kennedy connection doesn't mean much. What the heck, he is not even the first "movie star" to be elected governor of California - that would be Ronald Reagan.

Arizona's problems - what a hoot! They have far less an immigration issue than Australia does. Now what is being done about those Aboriginal people?

[Grace]

My definition of a "smart" or "educated" person is someone who knows what they don't know, know how to find out what they don't know and keeps an open mind to the answer.

Bachman does not know the basics - things most people in the US learn in 5th or 6th grade. If she didn't know what state the revolution started in...if she didn't know the position of the "Founding Fathers" on slavery, she could use Wikipedia - before opening her mouth and proving her embarassing ignorance.

Even an Aussie should be able to do the same. Arnold Schwartzenagger is no longer governor of California. By the way, he is also a Republican - so the Kennedy connection doesn't mean much. What the heck, he is not even the first "movie star" to be elected governor of California - that would be Ronald Reagan.

Arizona's problems - what a hoot! They have far less an immigration issue than Australia does. Now what is being done about those Aboriginal people?

What she said :)

[Grace]

Concord Hymn by Ralph Waldo Emerson


Ralph Waldo Emerson was a key early American philospher, poet and writer, particularly known for his appreciation of individualism, self-reliance and intuition. He wrote this poem, which was sung as a hymn at a July 4, 1837 ceremony to mark the completion of the Concord Monument, to immortalize the resistance of American Minutemen to British forces on April 19, 1775. The poem's phrase "shot heard round the world" is now internationally famous for its description of the philosphical importance of the American revolution.

(I've seen the Monument mentioned here, and walked over the bridge - they are both in Concord, Massachusetts.)

By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood,
And fired the shot heard round the world.

The foe long since in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps;
And Time the ruined bridge has swept
Down the dark stream which seaward creeps.

On this green bank, by this soft stream,
We set to-day a votive stone;
That memory may their deed redeem,
When, like our sires, our sons are gone.

Spirit, that made those heroes dare
To die, and leave their children free,
Bid Time and Nature gently spare
The shaft we raise to them and thee.

[RICHARD]

The Wisconsin Dems
Tucked tail and ran.
All before the vote began.

The could not stay, the bunch were morons
They would not give the Repubs a quorum
Run to the next state.
Hide your faces.

They cannot vote with empty spaces.
Run and hide, Don't make a fight.
You show your colors, hidden from sight.

Chickens squawk, deer do run.
Out of politics, you've taken the fun.

Taken a stand, fight for us all,
But you choose to run to save your (bits)

The vote is done, you're taking smack
Maybe now, you all can come back.

----------------------

An educated person is one who knows when to let the other person use their tongues to get in trouble.

[wombat2u2004]

What she said :)

Dunno.....I have her on ignore.
That way I don't have to read rubbish ;)

[blue]

Dunno.....I have her on ignore.
That way I don't have to read rubbish ;)

And Wom delivers with the funnay!!

[RICHARD]

And Wom delivers with the funnay!!

Don't listen to him.

He's trouble.;)

[wombat2u2004]

Concord Hymn The poem's phrase "shot heard round the world" is now internationally famous for its description of the philosphical importance of the American revolution.

It is ???
Never heard of it.
Now why would the American Revolution interest anyone who isn't American ???

[blue]

Don't listen to him.

He's trouble.;)

Normally I dont, that post just made me giggle.

[blue]

It is ???
Never heard of it.
Now why would the American Revolution interest anyone who isn't American ???

Dont you collect war medals?

[wombat2u2004]

Don't listen to him.

He's trouble.;)

Only to some my friend....only to some.
Wom does not forget the dirty arrogance that he was met with on his first ever joining of this forum.
Yep.....an arrogance that can only be delivered by someone who's life must be so eFFed up that all they can do is deliver venom.
Ahhhhh....to be a veteran of someone elses war and be treated that way by their daughters......so sad.
But....one day....when she is old and grey, she will pass away, a bitter and hateful little person.

[wombat2u2004]

Dont you collect war medals?

I do mate. But not from that war.
I have a good USA Vietnam collection tho. ;)

[blue]

when she is old and grey

She isnt already?

ETA: And Wom drop the ... ... ... between thoughts it doesnt make you look smarter, it makes you look like a teenager or a grey haired old lady trying to look smart.

[Karen]

It is ???
Never heard of it.
Now why would the American Revolution interest anyone who isn't American ???

Just like we, as children in America, studied the wars in other countries, children not growing up in America may learn the story of the American Revolution. And that Revolution, though it had been brewing, and had many causes, had its first shots fired a few miles from where I sit typing this. So just as I learned that Archduke Ferdinand getting shot when his driver backed down an alley in Sarajevo started World War I, children in other countries may have been taught about the beginnings of the war at Lexington and Concord.

Does not world history interest everyone to some extent?

[wombat2u2004]

She isnt already?

ETA: And Wom drop the ... ... ... between thoughts it doesnt make you look smarter, it makes you look like a teenager or a grey haired old lady trying to look smart.

Dunno mate. Maybe she's still at the purple haired stage of life :rolleyes:
Sorry about the ..........blue. Habit you know. ;)

[wombat2u2004]

Just like we, as children in America, studied the wars in other countries, children not growing up in America may learn the story of the American Revolution. And that Revolution, though it had been brewing, and had many causes, had its first shots fired a few miles from where I sit typing this. So just as I learned that Archduke Ferdinand getting shot when his driver backed down an alley in Sarajevo started World War I, children in other countries may have been taught about the beginnings of the war at Lexington and Concord.

Does not world history interest everyone to some extent?

Hmmmmm....we didn't do American history at all. We did a lot on the English Revolution, but mostly either ancient history and Australian history.
But yeah, I am a history buff from way back, and if I do know anything about American History it's because I have picked up books and read about it.
But I have found world history interesting for my own enjoyment. Most people don't. If one asks me if I find American history in any way special or spectacular, I'd say no, even after visiting some of your battle parks.
Pretty ordinary stuff in my opinion. But I'm Australian, and I think our history is more colourful, as you believe that yours is. ;)

[Grace]

The Wisconsin Dems
Tucked tail and ran.
All before the vote began.

The could not stay, the bunch were morons
They would not give the Repubs a quorum
Run to the next state.
Hide your faces.

They cannot vote with empty spaces.
Run and hide, Don't make a fight.
You show your colors, hidden from sight.

Chickens squawk, deer do run.
Out of politics, you've taken the fun.

Taken a stand, fight for us all,
But you choose to run to save your (bits)

The vote is done, you're taking smack
Maybe now, you all can come back.



Richard - you're very talented :) This is really clever.

[Bonny]

Richard - you're very talented :) This is really clever.

To the point & on so truthful. :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

It is ???
Never heard of it.
Now why would the American Revolution interest anyone who isn't American ???

At last you have said something funny!

Now that you have admitted you are not familiar with it -how about shutting up about it?

[lizbud]

Now that you have admitted you are not familiar with it -how about shutting up about it?


They say the most that know the least, ie Palin,Bachmann, Beck, et al.:)

Isn't it wonderful to be a American and have foreigners tell you what our
Politics are all about? Hey, they even know our History...they read a book
somewhere.:D

...................:)

[cassiesmom]

The Wisconsin Dems
Tucked tail and ran.
All before the vote began.

The could not stay, the bunch were morons
They would not give the Repubs a quorum
Run to the next state.
Hide your faces.

They cannot vote with empty spaces.
Run and hide, Don't make a fight.
You show your colors, hidden from sight.

Chickens squawk, deer do run.
Out of politics, you've taken the fun.

Taken a stand, fight for us all,
But you choose to run to save your (bits)

The vote is done, you're taking smack
Maybe now, you all can come back.

----------------------

An educated person is one who knows when to let the other person use their tongues to get in trouble.

The Democrats from Wisconsin have left Chicago, though. They were here for almost a month.

[Bonny]

The Democrats from Wisconsin have left Chicago, though. They were here for almost a month.


Do you think they will get paid after they jumped ship?

[RICHARD]

Normally I dont, that post just made me giggle.

You should see him at work......

http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af68/xxlt/emu.jpg?t=1300143926

[momoffuzzyfaces]

The Democrats from Wisconsin have left Chicago, though. They were here for almost a month.

Hope you all made sure they paid their hotel bills before they left! :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

The Democrats from Wisconsin have left Chicago, though. They were here for almost a month.

Cassiesmom - they were actually in Rockford...my hometown. I was there during the standoff and Rockford is very proud to have provided refuge. So proud they have made an advertisment out of it...

Rockford Hideaway (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwcVHyk3FBE)

[Grace]

Cassiesmom - they were actually in Rockford...my hometown. I was there during the standoff and Rockford is very proud to have provided refuge. So proud they have made an advertisement out of it...

Rockford Hideaway (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwcVHyk3FBE)

Those two videos are a hoot!! Love the cheese heads in the second one :)

[cassiesmom]

Cassiesmom - they were actually in Rockford...my hometown. I was there during the standoff and Rockford is very proud to have provided refuge. So proud they have made an advertisment out of it...

Rockford Hideaway (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwcVHyk3FBE)

:o I thought they were at the Chicago Hilton and Towers! I heard on talk radio that's where they were!

Two of my favorite Rockford things -- the Anderson Japanese Gardens, www.andersongardens.org and Cheap Trick, www.cheaptrick.com. I'll probably never visit Japan, but the Anderson Gardens are so beautiful and peaceful. I've been there twice- the second time it was a cloudy, damp day, but the garden was still beautiful. And Cheap Trick- well, I was in 9th grade when their live album from Japan was released. they were all over the radio and I've liked them ever since.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Those two videos are a hoot!! Love the cheese heads in the second one :)

You are familiar with the typical headdress of Wisconsinites?

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg23/EdwinaandEddie/cheesehead.jpg

[wombat2u2004]

Isn't it wonderful to be a American and have foreigners tell you what our
Politics are all about? Hey, they even know our History...they read a book
somewhere.:D

...................:)

“When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities”
David Hume

P.S. Love your arrogance Lizzy......it is so.....YOU. ;)

[Grace]

That whole thing in Wisconsin in on hold for the moment. Judge Maryann Sumi of the Dane County Circuit Court, appointed by Republican Governor Tommy Thompson in 1998, has issued a temporary restraining order that prevents the law from taking effect.

source (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/us/19wisconsin.html?hp)

[Edwina's Secretary]

And...

The Arizona Senate rejected five immigration bills that were intended to force the US Supreme Court to resolve the issue of citizenship for the children of non-citizens who are born in the U.S. among other immigration issues.

Seems the Republicans were a bit divided ...

Birthright Citizenship (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/17/arizona-senate-rejects-birthright-citizenship-bills/?asid=76002d02)

[cassiesmom]

The Senate also defeated a bill to require hospitals to contact federal immigration officials or local law enforcement if people being treated lack insurance and can't demonstrate legal status.

The above quote is from the Fox News link Edwina's Secretary posted. I just found out that in Illinois, hospitals have the option, but are not required to contact the consulate or embassy of a patient's country of origin if the patient lacks insurance and is unable to demonstrate legal status. Or even if they can demonstrate legal status.

We have had some difficult situations at work recently where a patient is the citizen of another country and has significant health care needs (chemotherapy, intravenous nutrition, rehabilitative care, ongoing care for a high-risk pregnancy and I could go on and on). One was a lady in her 70s from a Middle Eastern country here visiting her adult child, who is a U.S. citizen. She came to the emergency department with complaints that could have been related to any number of problems, and sadly was given a life-changing diagnosis. She was here legally and while visiting her family, needed medical care. Others are not here legally and that poses another whole set of issues. Sometimes there is not much the embassy can do, but I just think they should be told. And contacting ICE, well, that just seems overly harsh to me. I don't think they can do much either.

Question: If my American husband and I are living in another country temporarily - and we have a child while we live there - is the child automatically a citizen of that country? Does the birthright citizenship scenario apply to countries other than the U.S.?

Thanks,
elyse

[wombat2u2004]

Question: If my American husband and I are living in another country temporarily - and we have a child while we live there - is the child automatically a citizen of that country? Does the birthright citizenship scenario apply to countries other than the U.S.?

Thanks,
elyse

"Jus Soli" does apply to other countries the same as the USA, but not all. That is because some countries have additional criteria that must be met...read on............

Acquisition of Australian Citizenship - Birth in Australia Between 26 January 1949 and 19 August 1986, except for children born to diplomats, any person born in Australia acquired Australian citizenship by birth automatically.

From 20 August 1986 a person born in Australia acquired Australian citizenship by birth only if at least one parent was an Australian citizen or permanent resident.

A child born in Australia (and who is not otherwise an Australian citizen) and who lives in Australia automatically acquires Australian citizenship on his or her 10th birthday, if the child has not been granted or otherwise acquired Australian citizenship in the meantime. This occurs automatically by operation of law, and applies irrespective of the immigration status of the child or his/her parents.

Children born in Australia who are stateless and not entitled to any other country's citizenship may in some circumstances be registered as Australian citizens.

[lizbud]

All this over a book burning that happened a month ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/02/afghanistan.pastor.protest/index.html?hpt=T2

[Grace]

And now one of the crazy people wants "retribution" -

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42386587/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

[phesina]

This joker "minister" said recently that he plans to show up in Dearborn, Michigan (Detroit suburb, home to the largest Muslim community in the U.S. [and also my home town]) on September 11 this year to burn a Koran in front of a mosque.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

This joker "minister" said recently that he plans to show up in Dearborn, Michigan (Detroit suburb, home to the largest Muslim community in the U.S. [and also my home town]) on September 11 this year to burn a Koran in front of a mosque.Is he trying to get himself killed? He is a perfect example of a bully: push push push until someone has enough and fights back. Then he will run crying that he is a victum. :rolleyes:

[wombat2u2004]

I wonder what the Westboro Baptist Church has to say about this.

[Grace]

I wonder what the Westboro Baptist Church has to say about this.

I wonder if they are related?

Long lost siblings, perhaps? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/church-that-torched-koran-has-divided-pastors-family-and-others/2011/04/03/AFuXx6XC_story.html?hpid=z3)

[wombat2u2004]

I wonder if they are related?

Long lost siblings, perhaps? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/church-that-torched-koran-has-divided-pastors-family-and-others/2011/04/03/AFuXx6XC_story.html?hpid=z3)

Hmmm, an interesting read. I think they are related. Closer than what we may think. Gives a whole new meaning to "Uncle Dad" doesn't it ??? :D

[phesina]

I just read that the "Reverend" Mr. Jones is moving up his planned visit to Dearborn to April 22 (i.e., GOOD FRIDAY!):

------->
... Jones plans to join an “anti-Sharia law” protest outside the Islamic Center of America on April 22 in Dearborn, Mich., which has a large population of Arab Americans. The protest has been organized by an obscure northern Michigan militia group called “Order of the Dragon.”
-----
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0402/Terry-Jones-How-free-speech-and-Quran-burning-can-lead-to-violence

He has his own wacko little church, so he's not from Westboro Baptist.. There's more than one "church" like this?

[wombat2u2004]

I just read that the "Reverend" Mr. Jones is moving up his planned visit to Dearborn to April 22 (i.e., GOOD FRIDAY!):

------->
... Jones plans to join an “anti-Sharia law” protest outside the Islamic Center of America on April 22 in Dearborn, Mich., which has a large population of Arab Americans. The protest has been organized by an obscure northern Michigan militia group called “Order of the Dragon.”
-----
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0402/Terry-Jones-How-free-speech-and-Quran-burning-can-lead-to-violence

He has his own wacko little church, so he's not from Westboro Baptist.. There's more than one "church" like this?

Good God. Can't they put a stop to this imbecile ????

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Well, looks like our congress has messed around and are not passing a budget - again!

Here is one way to stop them from shutting down the government:
make it clear that no congressmembers will get a pay check either since our military men and women won't. AND no vacations for congress unless and untill the budget is passed and FINALLY all congress people and the president will all be spanked hard if they don't pass it by the end of the day. sheesh

Enought messing around you dummies!!!! It's not like making a budget is NEW. It happens (or is SUPPOSED too) every year!!!!! :rolleyes:

BY the way, why don't we cut off monatary aid to countries who HATE us?

[Grace]

From USA Today -


By Catalina Camia, USA TODAY

Members of Congress say they'll donate their pay to the U.S. Treasury or charity if the government shuts down.



Add House Speaker John Boehner to the growing list of members of Congress who say they'll skip their paycheck if the federal government shuts down tonight.

By law, members of Congress and the president would continue to receive their pay in the event of a government shutdown.

Boehner is sending a letter to House lawmakers explaining how the House Administration can help them return their pay to the U.S. Treasury, which he plans to do.

Several lawmakers in both parties have said they will either donate their pay to charity or give it back to the U.S. Treasury if a budget deal cannot be reached and the government closes its doors at midnight.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has joined an effort led by Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., to get members of Congress to give up their pay. Manchin's "no budget, no pay," pledge has attracted support from two dozen lawmakers, including Republicans John McCain of Arizona and freshmen senators Mark Kirk of Illinois and Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania.

Boehner's annual salary is $223,500 -- the most for a member of Congress because he is by law second in line to the presidency. Reid earns $193,400. Members outside of the top leadership group receive $174,000 for 2011.


And from FOXNews -


Not only will neither chamber pass the other's no-pay bill, but the 27th Amendment to the Constitution provides that laws changing congressional pay don't take effect until the following term.

Issa noted this concern, as did Sen. Christopher Coons, D-Del. But Coons said the Constitution wouldn't prevent lawmakers from volunteering to give up their pay.

"There is a constitutional issue here. We might have to voluntarily give back our pay in the event of a shutdown. But I think the pain here ought to be spread broadly," Coons told Fox News. "The average folks out there watching this ought to know that we in Washington get it, that a shutdown is an embarrassing failure on our part to do the job we were hired to come here and do."

Dan Weiser, spokesman for the chief administrative officer of the House, said members of Congress have to receive their paychecks by law, but that, if they don't give them to charity, they can also use them to pay down the national debt. However, The Washington Post reported last month that just a few lawmakers have gotten in the habit of doing that, and that donations from Congress to the debt totaled just $15,000 in 2010.

[lizbud]

The looming government shutdown is a sad state of affairs, but even
worse is the awful news I heard about yesterday.:eek: Fox network is NOT
renewing Glenn Beck"s TV show.:(:( Where ever will I get the REAL INSIDE
SCOOP on politics now? :rolleyes::rolleyes: We are all doomed.:( :rolleyes:

[Edwina's Secretary]

The looming government shutdown is a sad state of affairs, but even
worse is the awful news I heard about yesterday.:eek: Fox network is NOT
renewing Glenn Beck"s TV show.:(:( Where ever will I get the REAL INSIDE
SCOOP on politics now? :rolleyes::rolleyes: We are all doomed.:( :rolleyes:

I heard and am desvastated. <<Snicker>> Who will idolize Sarah Palin now? Who will connect the conspiracy dots for us? Who will make the tea for the tea party???

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I REALLY am sorry to hear that. Don't agree with everything he says. But I liked him. :(

Looks like Spooky Dude finally got him off the air.

[Karen]

He's not dead, I'm sure he'll be all over other media outlets, like radio.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I just visited his web site. He's not been cancelled. He has just made a new deal with Fox. So we will wait and see.

[Grace]

Something a bit more cheerful -

From Politico -


Giffords office plans for shuttle
By: Meredith Shiner
April 8, 2011 01:38 PM EDT

The office of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) released details of her potential appearance at the launch of the the space shuttle, Endeavor, which her husband Capt. Mark Kelly is expected to command.

The launch is scheduled for April 29.

In a statement Friday, the recovering congresswoman’s office indicated staff is “making plans” for Giffords to attend, pending medical approval from the staff at TIRR Memorial Hermann Hospital, where she has been since the end of January when she suffered a gunshot wound to the head during a mass-shooting in Tucson.

“Our office is making plans for her to attend, pending medical approval,” the statement read. “Doctors overseeing the congresswoman’s recovery at TIRR Memorial Hermann Hospital in Houston will have the final word on whether Giffords will be able to attend the launch at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.”

Giffords’ office said the dates of her travel have not yet been determined and that she would not meet with the media or issue a statement from Florida if doctors clear her to attend the launch.

Instead, members of her staff plan to hold a press conference “to discuss the event and her reaction to her husband’s latest mission.”

Giffords’ chief of staff Pia Carusone and Communications director C.J. Karamargin, Giffords’ communications director are expected to speak on her behalf.

Attending the launch has long been the stated goal for Giffords, whose recovery so far has been cited by doctors as “miraculous.”

[blue]

Dont worry ladies, you can still listen to his radio show, and he will still be collaborating with Fox News Channel. No need to panic.

[lizbud]

Maybe now the loonies will shut up about this. :rolleyes: :):)


http://www.theindychannel.com/news/27686335/detail.html

[Grace]

Maybe now the loonies will shut up about this. :rolleyes: :):)


http://www.theindychannel.com/news/27686335/detail.html
Maybe yes; maybe no. The real loony loonies will not want to believe it.

http://swampland.time.com/2011/04/27/birtherism-is-dead-but-the-birther-industry-continues/?xid=thepage_newsletter


Vote for Donald Trump, the man who can make Bill O’Reilly look like the most sensible guy in the room. . .. . . . . . . . . . Gail Collins

[lizbud]

Maybe yes; maybe no. The real loony loonies will not want to believe it.

http://swampland.time.com/2011/04/27/birtherism-is-dead-but-the-birther-industry-continues/?xid=thepage_newsletter


Vote for Donald Trump, the man who can make Bill O’Reilly look like the most sensible guy in the room. . .. . . . . . . . . . Gail Collins



Great article Grace.:)

[blue]

Bout dang time. Go Trump for taking credit.

[Grace]

liz, I thought this was interesting, regarding the long-form birth certificates -


In recent memory, there have been two adoptee Presidents: one never elected, the other elected twice.

As adoptees, neither Ford nor Clinton would necessarily have been able to access their long-form birth certificate, let alone make it available for review by others. Adoptees need the permission of their birth parents to see the “long form” certificate.

Have we now reached the point where an adoptee cannot be President?* (Or, at least, a Democratic adoptee?)



*In fairness, Clinton was adopted by his stepfather and therefore could probably access his long form if necessary. So long as his mother is still alive at the time of the request.

[Puckstop31]

Obama is a very clever politician. He used this totally ABSURD 'birther' crap very well. If I was Obama, i'd want my opponents talking about it too. :rolleyes:

So while everybody is talking about the President's birth certificate, the REAL news of the day gets glanced over.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42784201

Gee... Who saw inflation coming?

Hooray for fake money! My daughter is totally screwed, but the boomers get to keep their SS! Woot!

[Bonny]

Obama is a very clever politician. He used this totally ABSURD 'birther' crap very well. If I was Obama, i'd want my opponents talking about it too. :rolleyes:

So while everybody is talking about the President's birth certificate, the REAL news of the day gets glanced over.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42784201

Gee... Who saw inflation coming?

Hooray for fake money! My daughter is totally screwed, but the boomers get to keep their SS! Woot!

Your daughter had better learn early to work hard, save, and invest. That is what we have done all these years along with our folks who lived through a depression & had nothing. Also tell her not to live beyond her means. Learn to save her pennies early on. If you don't need it you can do without. Forget about the SS thing get off of it. It is just a pettily part of what is wrong with our country.

The baby boomers give back to society by volunteering many many many hours. They are not leeches asking for handouts.

Medicare is not completely FREE. We have to pay into it along with acquiring a supplemental policy along with supplementing any drugs we may need.

[Puckstop31]

Your daughter had better learn early to work hard, save, and invest. That is what we have done all these years along with our folks who lived through a depression & had nothing. Also tell her not to live beyond her means. Learn to save her pennies early on. If you don't need it you can do without.

Well, as best we can, we already live this way. But saving our pennies won't matter a hill of beans if those pennies are worthless. THAT is what I am getting at.


Forget about the SS thing get off of it. It is just a pettily part of what is wrong with our country.

Sorry, but no. SS is NOT a "petty" thing. Were it run as was intended, it would be in fair shape. Right now, its full of IOUs. The Keynesian geniuses don't think that is a problem, 'because we just owe that money to ourselves'.

If that does not indicate a problem to you... There is nothing more to discuss.


The baby boomers give back to society by volunteering many many many hours. They are not leeches asking for handouts.

Heh... Until someone tries to cut it, to try to ensure that our posterity has SS available to them as well....

No, not all 'boomers' are leeches. But they sure did a good job setting up their posterity for failure.

Economics is not a game, it works on natural LAW. We can screw around and play games all we want... Sooner or later, the bills come due. The boomers don't really have to worry about that all too much. Hannah does.

Sucks to be born and already be in the hole a quarter million dollars.

[lizbud]

liz, I thought this was interesting, regarding the long-form birth certificates -


Probably wasn't just the "birther" thing alltogether, other factors were
in play with this particular President. I read a interesting article today
that explains the other factors quite well. There is a lot of truth to her
words & while I've heard it all before, this lady expresses it all nicely.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/28/ifill.birthers/index.html?hpt=Sbin

[Grace]

Probably wasn't just the "birther" thing alltogether, other factors were
in play with this particular President. I read a interesting article today
that explains the other factors quite well. There is a lot of truth to her
words & while I've heard it all before, this lady expresses it all nicely.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/28/ifill.birthers/index.html?hpt=Sbin

Oh, I do agree with her. Have felt that way since the very beginning.

There are just some people in this country that can't abide the thought of anyone other than an older, white male occupying the White House. If Hillary had been elected, someone would have concocted a crazy scenario about her.

[Grace]

I just came across this quote by Stephan Lewandowsky, University of Western Australia.

It sure fits with the birther business.


Ideology trumps facts.

And it doesn’t matter what the ideology is, whether socialism, any brand of fundamentalist religion, or free-market extremism. The psychological literature shows quite consistently that a threat to one’s worldview is more than likely met by a dismissal of facts, however strong the evidence. Indeed, the stronger the evidence, the greater the threat — and hence the greater the denial.

[lizbud]

I am so happy & proud of the people of Indianapolis.It was an immediate
and overwhelming rejection of Trump as a part of the 100th Indy 500 race
as the driver of the pace car. Right after it was publicly announced people
spoke up to say he was not wanted here.

All this from a deeply Conservative state & Republican majority in Indiana
political offices.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/indianapolis-500-boots-donald-trump.php?ref=fpb

[Karen]

Hee hee. I saw an opinion piece from a political columnist apologizing on behalf of the media for foisting Donald Trump on the rest of us. It gave me a wry sort of smile.

[RICHARD]

Birth certiicates?

I worked for a short time, long ago, as a Birth Certificate Clerk.

The whole 'birther' thing made me laugh, from the emails sent to me by friends claiming BO wasn't a citizen, to the prez himself.

The "short form" BC is merely a document from a hospital, signed by the parent(s) and the doc who delivered the child.

The long form is that same document, sent to the county or state registar who has recorded that birth in the states/county's archives/books.

Bo could have saved quite a bit of turmoil and bad press by releasing the LFBC.

Of course, Hawaii has some stupid laws regarding the release of a BC,wshich should be a matter of public record, so that just made it more of a problem fo BO.

Jeez, as if we do not have anything better to worry about.

[phesina]

I am so happy & proud of the people of Indianapolis.It was an immediate
and overwhelming rejection of Trump as a part of the 100th Indy 500 race
as the driver of the pace car. Right after it was publicly announced people
spoke up to say he was not wanted here.

All this from a deeply Conservative state & Republican majority in Indiana
political offices.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/indianapolis-500-boots-donald-trump.php?ref=fpb

Well done, Indy!!!!!

[cassiesmom]

I am so happy & proud of the people of Indianapolis.It was an immediate
and overwhelming rejection of Trump as a part of the 100th Indy 500 race
as the driver of the pace car. Right after it was publicly announced people
spoke up to say he was not wanted here.

All this from a deeply Conservative state & Republican majority in Indiana
political offices.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/indianapolis-500-boots-donald-trump.php?ref=fpb

Wow. He shouldn't be the one driving the pace car. Isn't David Letterman from Indiana? He should do it. Or Larry Bird. They would need a car with a high ceiling for him because he's so tall! Or someone who honorably served in Afghanistan or Iraq, or another military operation.

[RICHARD]

I think that DT running the pacecar has NOTHING TO DO with politics.



Get rid off Jim Nabors, instead.:p:confused::eek::D

[lizbud]

I think that DT running the pacecar has NOTHING TO DO with politics.




It was his outlandish poltical statements that got him un-invited.

As one of our local sports writers put it "We kept the clown out of town".

[RICHARD]

It was his outlandish poltical statements that got him un-invited.

As one of our local sports writers put it "We kept the clown out of town".

Rashard Mendenhall.

Kick him out of the NFL.

Morons, one and all.

Politics have nothing to do with sports - unless you do drive drunk or against traffic.

I have yet to see a clockwise lap done at Indy?
-------------------------

BO vanity made a totally stupid situation out of his BC.

It's his own cross to bear and he could have nipped it in the bud had he silenced the critics from the start.

Maybe that's what the country needs.

A clown to be president.



He can't do any worse that any other politician and their stupid hair cuts?

[Edwina's Secretary]

BO vanity made a totally stupid situation out of his BC.

It's his own cross to bear and he could have nipped it in the bud had he silenced the critics from the start.



Let's get this straight once and for all. Obama DID...repeat DID produce the evidence of his citizenship in 2008. Certificate of Live Birth.

When I first applied for a passport I had to request proof of my birth in the United States from the State of Indiana. They sent me a Certificate of Live Birth. That is the standard required by the United States of America for proof of citizenship. It is not a long form. It is a short form. It does not list the hospital or the doctor who attended. You see - some people are born at home. And without an attending doctor. Duh??

Because some morons felt it was necessary for him to produce more than that required by the State Department, US Military or any other body??

If he could have "nipped the morons in the bud" by asking the State of Hawaii to make an exception to its policies - why are there still morons blaming this nonsense on Obama?? Why are there still morons such as the guy I saw on Fox describing why they believe the document released by the State of Hawaii is a forgery??

Think about it. Morons say...I don't believe you were born in the United States. No reason - they just say it. And you produce the official document required by the government and the morons say - that is not good enough. And you would say...well okay - let me find something else you will not accept??? Please.

Talk about blame the victim....To suggest this idiocy was the result of his vanity (what vanity has to do with it is beyond me....it is not like he was hiding his age...) is...well...what is the word....

[RICHARD]

Reading is fundamental, comprehension is not.

Since we really have worn out the phrase "moron", shall we move on to the chuckleheads?

My main point, as veiled and thinly diguised as I have try to make it? Both sets of CHUCKLEHEADS (everytime you hear that phrase, you must take a drink of you beverage) are to blame for wasting time on the whole affair, Both the prez and the birthers.
I seem to have no patience for the CHUCKLEHEADS who promise "transparency, hope and change" nor do I have any love lost for people who run around and waste my effing time and space on my email accounts sending me stupid notes about BO being from Mars and following the Cargo Cult Religion of the Pacific.

I defend neither side and I surely don't endorse any CHUCKLEHEADS who fervently hide or try to expose people's citizenship.

I do take issue with people who lift passages and phrases from posts that I had to think of myself.

That should be a issue for the 2012 election.

CREATIVITY.

Being stuck with the same old tyme religion/politics kinda sucks.

I'd run for office, but I can barely walk at the moment......

[caseysmom]

Reading is fundamental, comprehension is not.

Writing is fundamental, being clear and to the point is not.

[Puckstop31]

FWIW... I agree with ES's recent post.

It is a utter waste of time and energy to go after the President on this, NON issue.

There are SO many other reasons, real reasons, to critique him. The entire 'birther' mess gives him plenty of ammo. Were I the President, I would have held this card in my hand as long as possible too.

When you hear the President or people close to him talk... Watch the other hand VERY closely. What are they distracting us from?

[RICHARD]

Writing is fundamental, being clear and to the point is not.

well, that just about seals it. I ain't writing the GAN anytime soon.

Thanks.:o:eek::(

[lizbud]

Trying to appear profound only to succeed in becoming obtuse.:)

[RICHARD]

Trying to appear profound only to succeed in becoming obtuse.:)

Don't know much about Geometry....

:D

[Catty1]

I read somewhere the Ford and Clinton were adopted...one of them had a stepfather so likely could get a long form BC. But what if one of them couldn't find one due to privacy laws etc?

[caseysmom]

well, that just about seals it. I ain't writing the GAN anytime soon.

Thanks.:o:eek::(

Dish it out then you gotta take it coming back...I just hate the personal insults...its gets old.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Since we really have worn out the phrase "moron", shall we move on to the chuckleheads?



How about we take Caseymom's advise and stop the insulting name calling all together - moron, chucklehead, whatever???

It just makes my blood boil when someone who has a different opinion is called a moron, pinhead, chucklehead.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I read somewhere the Ford and Clinton were adopted...one of them had a stepfather so likely could get a long form BC. But what if one of them couldn't find one due to privacy laws etc?

It doesn't matter. The long form is not required, is not the official document. It is just some nonsense made up by people who hate Obama.

I was disappointed Obama asked the State of Hawaii to make an exception and release it. It has not ended the issue for those who will never believe any document and, in my opinion, it gave credence to the whole totally bogus issue.

[RICHARD]

Dish it out then you gotta take it coming back...I just hate the personal insults...its gets old.

I have always invited people to ignore my posts.

RSVP?

[wombat2u2004]

I have always invited people to ignore my posts.

RSVP?

Bugger the invitations, just tell em to go take a hike ;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

It seems to me...if you don't want people to read and/or respond to your post...probably best not to post!

That way you can be sure it will be "ignored!"

[wombat2u2004]

WHAT ??????????? How the hell can something be ignored if it's not there in the first place?
My goodness, and you had us all fooled that you were intelligent.

[Grace]

This just in . . . . .


Donald Trump Believes He Can Win But Won’t Run

“I maintain the strong conviction that if I were to run, I would be able to win the primary and ultimately, the general election,” Trump said in a statement. “I have spent the past several months unofficially campaigning and recognize that running for public office cannot be done half heartedly. Ultimately, however, business is my greatest passion and I am not ready to leave the private sector.”

[pomtzu]

This just in . . . . .

Thank goodness he threw in the towel before he even got started. He knew he didn't have a chance of a snowball in hell. :eek: Hope he chooses to stay in the private sector forever. :p

I can't stand that pompous jerk!!!!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

I maintain the strong conviction that if I were to run, I would be able to win the primary and ultimately, the general election

What a coward! He says this and of course, avoids proving it by deciding not to run.

What the heck...I maintain the strong conviction that if I were to try and fly I would be able to fly not only across the United States but all the way around the world.

Ultimately, however, walking is my greatest passion and I am not ready to leave the ground.

[RICHARD]

You go Arh-nuld.

A democrat would never cheat on his wife.

Is it o.k. to call names, again?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Is it o.k. to call names, again?

No.

Cheating men seem to be...well universal. French, Austrian, Democrat, Republican, American.

[Bonny]

No.

Cheating men seem to be...well universal. French, Austrian, Democrat, Republican, American.

Now wouldn't this be called Gender Bias only picking on men? Are their any cheating women out there? :confused:

[wombat2u2004]

Now wouldn't this be called Gender Bias only picking on men? Are their any cheating women out there? :confused:

Well I guess for every cheating man there is a cheating woman ???? :p

[Lady's Human]

It does, as the song goes, take two to tango.

[wombat2u2004]

Hee hee. ARNOLD.......you've been TERMINATED. :p

[Edwina's Secretary]

Now wouldn't this be called Gender Bias only picking on men? Are their any cheating women out there? :confused:

Of course there are cheating women. However, most of them do not cheat on their wife. :D;):D


A democrat would never cheat on his wife I really don't think RICHARD meant that as gender bias, do you?

[Lady's Human]

Of course there are cheating women. However, most of them do not cheat on their wife. :D;):D


It IS the 21st century....:p

[Bonny]

Of course there are cheating women. However, most of them do not cheat on their wife. :D;):D

I really don't think RICHARD meant that as gender bias, do you?

Nah! not Richard. :eek:

Edwina's Secretary I though you were headed in that direction with those idolatrous men. Those cheating heart's just make you want to weep. :(

It takes two to tango & one to pay alimony & child support & in the 21 st Century & it could be either one.

Arnold is going to have to find a real job now. ;)

[wombat2u2004]

It does, as the song goes, take two to tango.

I seen a movie once where there were four of them doing the tango at the same time. :D:D

[blue]

I seen a movie once where there were four of them doing the tango at the same time. :D:D

Just once Im sure.

[RICHARD]

No.

Cheating men seem to be...well univesal. French, Austrian, Democrat, Republican, American.

And what about the boring women that cause them to cheat?

------------------------------

I do dislike women immensely.

Especially the woman doctor who is caring for me. She wants me to have a colonoscopy.

Whatta biatch, no?


And there is the woman who saved my life by nagging me and all those NURSES.

They just wanted to fawn all over me, bring me my meds and make sure I was doing well.


The effing nerve......

[wombat2u2004]

I've never heard of a cheating man being called a univesal before.
Is that a new American word ???

[wombat2u2004]

Just once Im sure.

I'll have to come clean here with you blue.
It was twice. ;)

[blue]

I'll have to come clean here with you blue.
It was twice. ;)

I giggled.

[lizbud]

Palin never disappoints.:)

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/06/sarah-palin-paul-revere-defends-herself-/1

[wombat2u2004]

Good on ya Sarah.
I'm all for ya honey. :D:D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Palin never disappoints.:)

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/06/sarah-palin-paul-revere-defends-herself-/1

She is such an embarrassment! I wish the "mainstream media" would do what she claims to want and just leave her alone!

[wombat2u2004]

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae186/wombat2u2004/sarah-palin-maybe.jpg

[Bonny]

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae186/wombat2u2004/sarah-palin-maybe.jpg

Sarah Palin is it 2012 already? I sure hope she doesn't get the other idiot politicians started on any early campaign. :eek:

Maybe the world will end & we won't have to put up with any if it?

[wombat2u2004]

Sarah Palin is it 2012 already? I sure hope she doesn't get the other idiot politicians started on any early campaign. :eek:

Maybe the world will end & we won't have to put up with any if it?

It's time for CHANGE Bonny.....from worse to better. ;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sarah Palin is it 2012 already? I sure hope she doesn't get the other idiot politicians started on any early campaign. :eek:

Maybe the world will end & we won't have to put up with any if it?

Too late for that Bonny...."other idiot politicians already started on early campaigns"?

Tom Huntsman, Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty, Newt Gingrich, Michelle Bachmann, Rudy Guiliani, Herman Cain, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum...

Had three drop out already! Donald Trump, Mike Hukabee and Governor Daniels.

But of course, Ms. Palin isn't campaigning yet. She is just on a "family vacation" in a bus with her name in HUGE LETTERS on the side of it and Fox personalities (I refuse to call them reporters!) on the bus with her.

I guess she just wants to share her tremendous knowledge of US history with her daughter. Maybe she can get Ms. Bachmann to help her - all about the Revolutionary War starting in Concord New Hampshire.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

What I find most amusing is these so called "patriots" who get positively orgasmic when they hear the words "founding fathers" don't have a clue about the history they profess to love.

[Bonny]

Too late for that Bonny...."other idiot politicians already started on early campaigns"?

Tom Huntsman, Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty, Newt Gingrich, Michelle Bachmann, Rudy Guiliani, Herman Cain, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum...

Had three drop out already! Donald Trump, Mike Hukabee and Governor Daniels.

But of course, Ms. Palin isn't campaigning yet. She is just on a "family vacation" in a bus with her name in HUGE LETTERS on the side of it and Fox personalities (I refuse to call them reporters!) on the bus with her.

I guess she just wants to share her tremendous knowledge of US history with her daughter. Maybe she can get Ms. Bachmann to help her - all about the Revolutionary War starting in Concord New Hampshire.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

What I find most amusing is these so called "patriots" who get positively orgasmic when they hear the words "founding fathers" don't have a clue about the history they profess to love.

Sounds like they all need to attend summer school & brush up on their history. :rolleyes:

[Puckstop31]

OK, so how DID it go down then? I'd love to read everyone's take on it. :)

[Edwina's Secretary]

Gosh Puck, I did not realize you too are not familiar with US history! I am sure your public library has lots of books you could check and use to brush up.

Then perhaps you could share them with Ms. Palin and Ms. Bachmann!:D

[Grace]

And it's Jon Huntsman (Jon Meade Huntsman, Jr), not Tom.

[Puckstop31]

Gosh Puck, I did not realize you too are not familiar with US history! I am sure your public library has lots of books you could check and use to brush up.

Then perhaps you could share them with Ms. Palin and Ms. Bachmann!:D

ES, never fails to entertain. :)

You REALLY should run for office. You have all the necessary skills.

[lizbud]

ES, never fails to entertain. :)

You REALLY should run for office. You have all the necessary skills.



Awww Puck, what's the matter? ES didn't want to play your game huh?
LOL :D

[lizbud]

Indiana has become the first state to pass Legislation to cut funding
to the state Planned Parenthood offices. The Gov signed the bill over local
protests. The Feds responded by say Indiana's new law is unconstitutional
and will not stand. This is believed to be a "test case" for other states who
are thinking of doing the same thing Indiana did.

http://www.theindychannel.com/health/28137157/detail.html

[Edwina's Secretary]

And it's Jon Huntsman (Jon Meade Huntsman, Jr), not Tom.

Sorry Grace! He is a bit of a newcomer. It will be interesting to see if he can get past the issue that he is a Republican who worked for Obama.

Liz - I have been following the issue in Indiana with Planned Parenthood and scartching my head. Why is it the same people who scream about woman on welfare having too many babies then turn around and scream about a NGO that offers low income women healthcare and contraceptives? I would think they would want contraceptives being handed out with food stamps.

Of course they also say the health services offered by Planned Parenthood are available at Walgreens. I have never thought of Walgreens as a good place to go for a Pap smear. Who knew??

[Grace]

Sorry Grace! He is a bit of a newcomer. It will be interesting to see if he can get past the issue that he is a Republican who worked for Obama.


Mr. Huntsman stated that he didn't work for Mr. Obama; he worked for the President of the United States.

When the President — any President — calls, he says, you answer.

[pomtzu]

Of course they also say the health services offered by Planned Parenthood are available at Walgreens. I have never thought of Walgreens as a good place to go for a Pap smear. Who knew??

Some of the images I get in my mind from comments that I read on this forum are absolutely hilarious. Thanks for the chuckle. :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Mr. Huntsman stated that he didn't work for Mr. Obama; he worked for the President of the United States.

When the President — any President — calls, he says, you answer.

I don't disagree. The question is whether the "base" can deal with it.

What is perceived as "baggage" will be big in this primary. Can Romney get past his support for gay marriage and medical coverage? Can Pawlenty explain his previous support of cap and trade. Will a change of heart be seen as "flip-flopping" or "seeing the light."

On the other hand - if a president whose foreign policy I passionately disagreed with asked me to serve as an ambassador, would it be the right thing to accept?

Lots of interesting questions this time...

[Grace]

I don't disagree. The question is whether the "base" can deal with it.

What is perceived as "baggage" will be big in this primary. Can Romney get past his support for gay marriage and medical coverage? Can Pawlenty explain his previous support of cap and trade. Will a change of heart be seen as "flip-flopping" or "seeing the light."

On the other hand - if a president whose foreign policy I passionately disagreed with asked me to serve as an ambassador, would it be the right thing to accept?

Lots of interesting questions this time...

He also supports civil unions - not as far as he should go, but at least a start. And he got liquor laws relaxed in Utah, so it is easier to get a drink. He had an 80% approval rating there when he took the Ambassador post.

I sort of like him - he's not as far to the middle socially as I would like, but he's way better than Santorum. Of course, most anyone is better than Rick.

Article from TIME about him. (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2071003-1,00.html)

[RICHARD]

OMG! a Dem caught in a sex scandal.

It's very sad that grown men have to resort to using the internet to harass women.

A Republican would just show up at the gal's house and show he's a man.

------------------------

As a politician and member of congress? Weiner came off as being a little to cocky and I think the rest of his term will show he is impotent as a politician.

And the way he stood so erect at the podium and gave that flaccid speech?

He may not recover from pulling a boner like that. :confused::(:o

[Grace]

He's a jerk - and not very attractive, either. An ugly jerk :D

[wombat2u2004]

Sounds like they all need to attend summer school & brush up on their history. :rolleyes:

Nope, not allowed to mate.
Schools use BOOKS. It has been pointed out to me previously by one of our forums esteemed armchair historians that American History is'nt correct if it is obtained from BOOKS.
I quote "Isn't it wonderful to be a American and have foreigners tell you what our Politics are all about? Hey, they even know our History...they read a book somewhere."
I must write to Professor Ian Tyrrell about that one.
But no....he's Australian. What would he know about American history ??? :D

[RICHARD]

Nope, not allowed to mate.
Schools use BOOKS. It has been pointed out to me previously by one of our forums esteemed armchair historians that American History is'nt correct if it is obtained from BOOKS.
I quote "Isn't it wonderful to be a American and have foreigners tell you what our Politics are all about? Hey, they even know our History...they read a book somewhere."
I must write to Professor Ian Tyrrell about that one.
But no....he's Australian. What would he know about American history ??? :D

Wom,

When a person takes the test to become an American they have to answer questions about our history.

Sad to say that many of these fledging citizen's know MORE about our history than us 'mericans do.

[wombat2u2004]

Wom,

When a person takes the test to become an American they have to answer questions about our history.

Sad to say that many of these fledging citizen's know MORE about our history than us 'mericans do.

That my friend, I wouldn't doubt.
I'm a bit of a history buff. I love it. ALL world history. I have a vast library on many subjects, but History books would have to form the bulk of it.
OOPS !!! Did I mention books again ??? :D:D

[Bonny]

That my friend, I wouldn't doubt.
I'm a bit of a history buff. I love it. ALL world history. I have a vast library on many subjects, but History books would have to form the bulk of it.
OOPS !!! Did I mention books again ??? :D:D

BOOKS that nasty word again.:eek:

When we were taught history in school we were given tests & forced to memorize dates, people, & places. I always thought well the only place I would be using this stuff is maybe on a quiz show like Jeopardy.

The nice thing about historical books, if you find a good author they can put you right there on the spot. :cool:

[Edwina's Secretary]

BOOKS that nasty word again.:eek:



That makes an interesting question...What's In Your Library?

I organize mine in sections...

- World History
- US History
- US Presidents - its own section
- Columnist who also write books - Bill Bryson, Molly Ivins, Mike Royko, etc.
- Cats
- Women's Biographies/history
- WWII
- Travel
- A small fiction section
- Reference books - silly and not
- Business books

What's in your library??

[Grace]

What's in your library?


Terrific question! I have mine in alphabetical order by author. All mixed in together. Books about sports, medicine, history of all kinds, biography, current events, a few fiction. Then there is my stacks of yet-to-be-read. Again, a mixture of all kinds.

As Thomas Jefferson once said, I cannot live without books.

[wombat2u2004]

BOOKS that nasty word again.:eek:

When we were taught history in school we were given tests & forced to memorize dates, people, & places. I always thought well the only place I would be using this stuff is maybe on a quiz show like Jeopardy.

The nice thing about historical books, if you find a good author they can put you right there on the spot. :cool:

Oh yeah. I have books like that, you just can't put them down.
Have you ever read "Blood and Thunder" by Hampton Sides ?
An excellent book Bonny. I'm about half way thru it.
Anyway, we'd best get off the topic of books, some may think we are illiterate or something. ;)

[Grace]

Anyway, we'd best get off the topic of books, some may think we are illiterate or something. ;)

Who - what - where - why?

[blue]

Awww Puck, what's the matter? ES didn't want to play your game huh?
LOL :D

I would trust Pucks knowledge of United States History more then ES's or yours.

Good try at a dig.

[RICHARD]

That my friend, I wouldn't doubt.
I'm a bit of a history buff. I love it. ALL world history. I have a vast library on many subjects, but History books would have to form the bulk of it.
OOPS !!! Did I mention books again ??? :D:D

You do what?

In the buff?;)

[wombat2u2004]

You do what?

In the buff?;)

It's kinda kinky I know.
But I love it :p

[wombat2u2004]

I would trust Pucks knowledge of United States History more then ES's or yours.

Good try at a dig.

Me to ;)

[Puckstop31]

Awww Puck, what's the matter? ES didn't want to play your game huh?
LOL :D

LOL Its like fishing in a barrell.

I get how this kind of thing works here, on Pet Talk and it is OK. No worries.

That said, i'm going to stand by my compliment. I really do think ES would make a fantastic politician.

[blue]

I really do think ES would make a fantastic politician.

Or win an Olympic Gold Medal playing Dodge Ball. Solo against the Chinese.

[Bonny]

That makes an interesting question...What's In Your Library?

I organize mine in sections...

- World History
- US History
- US Presidents - its own section
- Columnist who also write books - Bill Bryson, Molly Ivins, Mike Royko, etc.
- Cats
- Women's Biographies/history
- WWII
- Travel
- A small fiction section
- Reference books - silly and not
- Business books

What's in your library??


A lot of Dog, Cat, Bird, Insect, Reptile, Horse, Livestock, & Fish books with pictures in them. I have always loved books with lots of colored or black & white pictures. Then there are my golden books from when I was a kid, or more like I am still a kid at heart. I have a collection of historical fiction Laura Ingalls Wilder books & they have some pictures in them. Then there is the Dr Seuss books, Green Eggs & Ham & Marvin K Mooney are my favorites with a lot more colored pictures. There are some U.S. travel books with some more pictures. I have a lot of topo maps of the Rockies I have collected over the years. There are flower, weed, tree, & rock books with more pictures.

My historical stuff which lacks pictures is mainly on the American Indian. Garrison Keillor is a favorite of mine I like his Midwestern humor. I have two dictionaries which I use A LOT. There is an outdated paper back on the U.S. Presidents & it has pictures in it too. :D

[Bonny]

Oh yeah. I have books like that, you just can't put them down.
Have you ever read "Blood and Thunder" by Hampton Sides ?
An excellent book Bonny. I'm about half way thru it.
Anyway, we'd best get off the topic of books, some may think we are illiterate or something. ;)

Does it have pictures in it? What is it about? Do I have to read it in the buff?

[RICHARD]

Does it have pictures in it? What is it about? Do I have to read it in the buff?

About reading in the buff?

Not on leather, during a heatwave? ;):):eek:

[RICHARD]

If anyone is interested in a good 'reference' book about the words we use here in the states?

http://www.amazon.com/Listening-America-Illustrated-History-Splendid/dp/0671527983

I bought this years ago and still pick it up to glance thru it.

It's a great book and good for some giggles about the language.

[wombat2u2004]

A lot of Dog, Cat, Bird, Insect, Reptile, Horse, Livestock, & Fish books with pictures in them. I have always loved books with lots of colored or black & white pictures. Then there are my golden books from when I was a kid, or more like I am still a kid at heart. I have a collection of historical fiction Laura Ingalls Wilder books & they have some pictures in them. Then there is the Dr Seuss books, Green Eggs & Ham & Marvin K Mooney are my favorites with a lot more colored pictures. There are some U.S. travel books with some more pictures. I have a lot of topo maps of the Rockies I have collected over the years. There are flower, weed, tree, & rock books with more pictures.

My historical stuff which lacks pictures is mainly on the American Indian. Garrison Keillor is a favorite of mine I like his Midwestern humor. I have two dictionaries which I use A LOT. There is an outdated paper back on the U.S. Presidents & it has pictures in it too. :D

Well that's gotta be better than Mills and Boon....eh ??? :p

[wombat2u2004]

Does it have pictures in it? What is it about? Do I have to read it in the buff?

1. Some pictures.
2. American History
3. No, you don't have to. But if you do, you'll relate better to the Indian chapters....you know...the massacres, plundering etc. ;)

[lizbud]

She is such an embarrassment! I wish the "mainstream media" would do what she claims to want and just leave her alone!


The media won't do that, they just keep giving her more rope.( to hang
herself )

ps. One more thing re Ms. Palin, did your see this column about her Revere
story? Column by Eugene Robinson & too good to miss.:)

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110607/OPINION12/106070302/Eugene-Robinson-Palin-s-version-Revere-s-ride?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

[phesina]

That my friend, I wouldn't doubt.
I'm a bit of a history buff. I love it. ALL world history. I have a vast library on many subjects, but History books would have to form the bulk of it.
OOPS !!! Did I mention books again ??? :D:D

What (if anything) is taught in history classes in Australia about the American Revolution and Paul Revere's ride?

[phesina]

OMG! a Dem caught in a sex scandal.

It's very sad that grown men have to resort to using the internet to harass women.

A Republican would just show up at the gal's house and show he's a man.

------------------------

As a politician and member of congress? Weiner came off as being a little to cocky and I think the rest of his term will show he is impotent as a politician.

And the way he stood so erect at the podium and gave that flaccid speech?

He may not recover from pulling a boner like that. :confused::(:o

You got that one right on the head, RICHARD. A great big hand for you!

[Edwina's Secretary]

What (if anything) is taught in history classes in Australia about the American Revolution and Paul Revere's ride?

Apparently about the same as is taught in U.S. schools about Australian history!:D

[cassiesmom]

That makes an interesting question...What's In Your Library?

I organize mine in sections...

- World History
- US History
- US Presidents - its own section
- Columnist who also write books - Bill Bryson, Molly Ivins, Mike Royko, etc.
- Cats
- Women's Biographies/history
- WWII
- Travel
- A small fiction section
- Reference books - silly and not
- Business books

What's in your library??

.OLD nursing textbooks (1980s) that I should not be holding onto. They're outdated and I can get the information from a current book on the same subject, or sometimes on the Internet.
.John Grisham paper-backs.
.A Fodor's guide to Arizona that I bought for a trip to the Grand Canyon that didn't happen.
.An old Walt Disney World guide.
."Mosby, The Kennedy Center Cat", "Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul" and James Herriot's books.
.High school and college yearbooks

And more

[Lady's Human]

Okay, Gov.? Pawlenty has just joined the lunatic fringe with his "Google test".

The military is going to be thrilled to have to send out classified material for printing. (privatization of the GPO)

Fed Ex and UPS don't have the capacity to deliver the sheer volume that the USPS does. Besides, I thought he was a conservative? I think there's a little item in the establishment clause of the Constitution which would make complete privatization of the USPS problematic.......

AMTRAK is making money in some operations, I'm sure privatizing the Northeast corridor would go well, but you could kiss passenger rail in the country goodbye everywhere else, just when it's starting to become attractive to some people (thank you, TSA)

As to his comments about lean six sigma streamlining the Pentagon.......have you looked at your procurement costs lately in those areas, Governor?

Please, can we dredge up a serious candidate? PLEASE?????

If I have to listen to their drivel, it could at least be intelligent.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I see Ms. Palin's emails while governor are being released. Guess we will learn whether she has a better grasp of the English language than she does of U.S. History!

But the funniest take I have seen on this yet is here. (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/388583/june-06-2011/paul-revere-s-famous-ride)

Really, really laugh out loud funny!

[Grace]

That is hysterical !!!

[phesina]

Love it!!!! Thank you!

[wombat2u2004]

What (if anything) is taught in history classes in Australia about the American Revolution and Paul Revere's ride?

Yes, we covered that.
We did World History. That was in the curriculum when I was at school.
I went to an Agricultural College, it leant more towards the sciences.
Agriculture
Farm Mechanics
Animal Husbandry
Biology
Physics / Chemistry Comb.
Mathematics
World History
English

And as there were only 300 students, we didn't have any choices on subjects other than Biology....if you didn't want to do that, then you did French.
There were only two classes of about 25 students for each year, one class studied French with all of the other subjects, the other Biology. ;)

[wombat2u2004]

What (if anything) is taught in history classes in Australia about the American Revolution and Paul Revere's ride?

And did you do Australian History ???

[Lady's Human]

I didn't do Australian history, I learned all the Aussie history I need to know from Crocodile Dundee and Young Einstein.

I did, however, study Russian history, under the heading of know your enemy.

[wombat2u2004]

I didn't do Australian history, I learned all the Aussie history I need to know from Crocodile Dundee and Young Einstein.

I did, however, study Russian history, under the heading of know your enemy.

There is a guy up in the Northern Territory who they call Crocodile Dundee,
who lives his life like that.
In the 1960's, I worked with a US mining company, and had a Dutch mate who used to help me with the prospecting work. He used to take off every now and again up to the Territory to hunt crocodiles. The last time I seen him was in 1967.
Who knows, maybe he ended up as lunch.....:eek::eek:

[wombat2u2004]

Apparently about the same as is taught in U.S. schools about Australian history!:D

We're not bothered whether you know our history or not. But I suppose those who are not so insular in your country could benefit from it as much as we could benefit from knowing your history. But I doubt you would understand.

[blue]

I doubt you would understand.

QFT. Quoted for Truth!

ETA: If I wanted to know more about Australia's history I would rather learn about it, and how to spell its name properly, on my own then from one of our own public school teachers.

This is also why I trust Puck and Wom more then I trust our public school teachers, they wants to learn it on their own, and not just to pass a test. They dont have any agenda behind learning history other then to learn it, unlike some who try to use it as a "gotcha" moment to make someone else look dumb and to inflate their own ego and inflated self worth.

[blue]

But the funniest take I have seen on this yet is here. (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/388583/june-06-2011/paul-revere-s-famous-ride)

What scares me about the future of our country is that people get their news, and take the commentary seriously, from Comedy Central.

Bread and circuses.

[Puckstop31]

Hannah.... I am sorry sweetheart. I pray that your generation will be better stewards of our nation than Grammy's or Daddies were.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-06-06-us-owes-62-trillion-in-debt_n.htm?loc=interstitialskip

REALLY, Mr. Lind? "Economic Growth?" Good grief. Growth back to what? The previous levels of un-sustainable spending? LOL Your hero, Mr. Keynes died a rich man, for sure. But its not because of the policies he preached.

No matter who you vote for r whatever snarky comments you make. The above is not going away. Economics is the same as Natural Law. It just IS. Really. Its in those silly history book things.

---

I understand no one will want to talk about it... So try this on your own. Look at the 1920 Depression. Look at the 1933-40's Depression. Find the difference in how we recovered. (And how long each took.)

[wombat2u2004]

unlike some who try to use it as a "gotcha" moment to make someone else look dumb and to inflate their own ego and inflated self worth.

Are there really people like that in America blue ???
I mean, I know of one right here on this forum....but are there others ??? ;)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have been chuckling all day at the idea of schools being expected to teach the history of all the other countries in the world.

Let's see - there are slightly less than 200 countries in the world. Each with its own history.

Conservatively - if we devote 2 weeks to a month - oh...let's average it at three weeks - to a country. That is slightly less that 600 weeks or...about 11 and one half years.

So...in the U.S. school is 12 years (not counting college or university...or pre-school..:D) that leaves six months over the course of 12 years to cover reading, writing, arithmetic and everything else!

Assuming a 12 month school year. Which is not reality. Reality is more like 9 months a year.

It might help the job market - as a basic education would take a long, long time and keep people out of the job market...but is it really worth it?

Expecting Australia, the U.S., Canada, Latvia, Japan, Sweden, Zambia, Brazil or any other country to teach much beyond local, country, and global is...well...silly?

[wombat2u2004]

I have been chuckling all day

You don't say.
Last time I read something like that, it was in Ripley's Believe it or Not.

[Bonny]

I have been chuckling all day at the idea of schools being expected to teach the history of all the other countries in the world.

Let's see - there are slightly less than 200 countries in the world. Each with its own history.

Conservatively - if we devote 2 weeks to a month - oh...let's average it at three weeks - to a country. That is slightly less that 600 weeks or...about 11 and one half years.

So...in the U.S. school is 12 years (not counting college or university...or pre-school..:D) that leaves six months over the course of 12 years to cover reading, writing, arithmetic and everything else!

Assuming a 12 month school year. Which is not reality. Reality is more like 9 months a year.

It might help the job market - as a basic education would take a long, long time and keep people out of the job market...but is it really worth it?

Expecting Australia, the U.S., Canada, Latvia, Japan, Sweden, Zambia, Brazil or any other country to teach much beyond local, country, and global is...well...silly?

It would of been great to spend more time learning about the rest of the world & they touched a little on everything in World History. I guess it was suppose to light a spark so we would go out on our own to the nearest library & do our own digging.:cool:
I was saddened because we just touched just a little on the American Indian culture & then as an adult I learned why.:eek:

[phesina]

And did you do Australian History ???

Thanks for the description of your studies, Wom. Very well-rounded! I also admire you for your interests in history and other subjects that you've explored on your own. (But did you ever learn to speak French?)

What with the agricultural concentration in your studies, do you do or have you done agricultural work?.. and/or what kind(s) of work?

Now.. in reply to your question above:

Let's see.. back when I was going to school growing up (1950s-early 60s), we studied American History (starting from Columbus's arrival, and in which we learned that Paul Revere made his famous ride in order to warn the colonists that the British were coming), and World History, which was mainly British and some other European history and touched briefly on other parts of the world.

As I recall, World History started all the way back with Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers (now mostly in modern-day Iraq! :eek::eek:).. then the ancient Egyptians.. ancient Greeks and Romans.. the birth of Christ and the spread of Christianity, Crusades (presented as definite Good Guys vs. Bad Guys conflicts) and all.. then the Brits and onward..

Australia?... let me think...: One day someone (Captain Cook?) "discovered" it.. it became part of the British Empire... then the British Commonwealth.. and now it is an independent country. Does that cover it pretty well? :D:rolleyes:

My more recent sources of information on Australia: Those two fine films "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" and "Welcome to Woop Woop" (they're documentaries, right?).

And I recently discovered the mystery novels (the kind of non-intellectual trash I mostly read in my free time :o) of Garry Disher, following the activities of a team of police officers on the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria. I'm enjoying these very much and am on the library's waiting list for the one I haven't read yet.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Australia?... let me think...: One day someone (Captain Cook?) "discovered" it.. it became part of the British Empire... then the British Commonwealth.. and now it is an independent country. Does that cover it pretty well? :D:rolleyes:



What I remember learning about Australia is that it was used by the British as a place to send the "unwanted" of society - criminals and paupers.

And I believe (thanks to a wonderfully clear video ChrisH posted here (http://vimeo.com/19352714)) that Australia is still a part of the Commonwealth.

[RICHARD]

Didn't one of the prezidential hopefuls say that there were 57 states in the union?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

I guess we can elect people who are weak in the olde historie department.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I guess we can elect people who are weak in the olde historie department.

Indeed...as well as weak in English language, geography...and oh so many other things...

Bloopers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaY8wzwxWTc&feature=related)

or...Can't get fooled again... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ux3DKxxFoM&feature=related) or...

So many to choose from!!

[RICHARD]

Ugh,

What am I doing?:eek::o
-----------------

What was the deal with Bill Clinton and the definition of "is"?????

[Edwina's Secretary]

Ugh,

What am I doing?:eek::o
-----------------

What was the deal with Bill Clinton and the definition of "is"?????

Just keep on paddling...:D:D

[mrspunkysmom]

ETA: If I wanted to know more about Australia's history I would rather learn about it, and how to spell its name properly, on my own then from one of our own public school teachers.



Well, blue, I can't speak about your school experience, but I can speak from mine. I learned some wrong information, but i imagine my teachers had also learned some wrong information. Wrong facts became entrenched long before computers and the Internet. (And ALL histories <studies> are revisionist.) Until recently, teachers in our country went to "normal" school, not regular college or university.

However, I can tell you that for the most part my teachers were well-informed and rather intelligent and cross-trained in multiple disciplines. Today young teachers are also well-trained coming out of college and very knowledgeable.

I was told years ago never admit that you do not know something. Stall until you can find out. Nowadays, I understand why. If I can't answer something (way out there, not the easy stuff) the student whines to the principal.

As a teacher I can tell you that most students do not want to really learn since it is not valued in the home. "Where am I going to use this?" They do like to be entertained and expect it.



This is also why I trust Puck and Wom more then I trust our public school teachers, they wants to learn it on their own, and not just to pass a test. They dont have any agenda behind learning history other then to learn it, unlike some who try to use it as a "gotcha" moment to make someone else look dumb and to inflate their own ego and inflated self worth.

At first I thought you were still referring to teachers. I've known a few like that. Disparaging someone is non-productive. It doesn't help learning. Leading by example does.

I'm sorry that arrogant people have pointed out your mistakes. Get over it, blue. Rather than "feel dumb", learn from it, and appreciate the arrogant peoples help, knowing that it all does come back around. Or ignore it. And move on. And be nice to them on occasion.

My mom called it "killing them with kindness." It annoys the H377 out of your enemies.

[blue]

Well, blue, I can't speak about your school experience,

Then you should have stopped right here instead of pontificating on your experience.


However, I can tell you that for the most part my teachers were well-informed and rather intelligent and cross-trained in multiple disciplines. Today young teachers are also well-trained coming out of college and very knowledgeable.

So according to you, American teachers are well informed enough to teach High School kids the entire Australian history? Can you?

HS American History class barely scratches the surface, that is why there are college majors in the subject.


I was told years ago never admit that you do not know something. Stall until you can find out. Nowadays, I understand why. If I can't answer something (way out there, not the easy stuff) the student whines to the principal.

I prefer telling someone, "I dont know, but lets find out what or why." It just seems more honest then BSing someone.

ETA: When it comes out that you are BSing, stalling for time, your students, what does that do to your credibility as a teacher? My dad has the same attitude you do and he taught debate back in the '60s. Its a BS tactic that will bite you in the a$$.


As a teacher I can tell you that most students do not want to really learn since it is not valued in the home. "Where am I going to use this?" They do like to be entertained and expect it.

As a Wireman and crew chief I agree most of the younger generation just wants to be entertained. When I was in school we where there to learn not wait for the teacher to entertain us. The teachers I had where not entertainers the teachers today seem to be. If you wanted to be an entertainer maybe you should teach drama class.


At first I thought you were still referring to teachers. I've known a few like that. Disparaging someone is non-productive. It doesn't help learning. Leading by example does.

Public school teachers are limited in what they can and cant teach, its called a curriculum. Teachers follow it to get there students to pass tests in order to prove their worth as a teacher. If the student learns nothing other then how to pass those tests what have they learned? How to pass those tests. Music teachers would be an exemption.


I'm sorry that arrogant people have pointed out your mistakes. Get over it, blue. Rather than "feel dumb", learn from it, and appreciate the arrogant peoples help, knowing that it all does come back around. Or ignore it. And move on. And be nice to them on occasion.

Im sorry you feel arrogant enough to feel I think I "feel dumb". Ive taught apprentices geometry when they failed algebra in HS. Ive done what Educated Teachers have failed at with students they gave up on.

Can you calculate a electrical load for a 2500 square foot house? If I gave you the specs for a custom computer to be used for high definition video editing how long would it take you get me a build and cost list? I trained my own replacement for computer repair and virus mitigation at my last job.

Can I spell well or use good grammar most of the time? Ill be the first to answer no.

Do I "feel dumb"? Not from arrogant people on this board I dont. If IM on a job, any job, and I miss something obvious I should have noticed on my own, I may feel dumb until I get the mistake corrected then I feel pretty dang good about myself.


My mom called it "killing them with kindness." It annoys the H377 out of your enemies.

You should have listened to you mother, because she's right.

[wombat2u2004]

Thanks for the description of your studies, Wom. Very well-rounded! I also admire you for your interests in history and other subjects that you've explored on your own. (But did you ever learn to speak French?)

What with the agricultural concentration in your studies, do you do or have you done agricultural work?.. and/or what kind(s) of work?

You are most welcome.
No mate, never studied French. Not unless you refer to the first love of my life at age 17........ahhhhhhh Antionette....such memories....hee hee.
The smattering of French that I do know, has been acquired more recently because of my hunt for militaria on French internet sites, also Belgian and German....it pays to be able to roughly decipher a bit of their language.

As for Agriculture, I worked in that field for a little while after I left school, but then got involved in geology pretty heavily, did lots of mineral exploration and geophysical work, stuff like that. Then it was in the army for me, had the family expectations to fill, as each generation has in my family. Spent 3 years in Asia and 3 years here in Aussie, a total of 6 years in uniform.
I then got involved in building, had my own building company and ran that for many years until I decided to slow down a bit and become a building consultant. My last job was a two year stint at the Sydney Olympic Village as building consultant, ran the show down there until completion, just before the games started. Then after that I started a Law degree, and two years later when I was half way through it, I crashed. Crashed big time. I was in and out of veteran clinics for a while, and finally diagnosed with severe PTSD. Stuff that I had been through in Asia that had been buried inside my head started to surface, affecting my EVERYTHING. So Vets Affairs shut me down. I sold up all my property, moved to a quiet country town, so now I take it easy, have a 365 day a year holiday, and spend my time helping war widows, going on fossil digs, collecting militaria, spoiling my dogs and making a nuisance of myself on Pet Talk....hee hee.
And....that's my life. :D
But yeah, I do read a lot. History, Geology, Paleontology, Anthropology and Art are the main subjects.....and not just Australian, I approach those subjects knowing that the whole world has something to offer. ;)

[wombat2u2004]

Let's see.. back when I was going to school growing up (1950s-early 60s), we studied American History (starting from Columbus's arrival, and in which we learned that Paul Revere made his famous ride in order to warn the colonists that the British were coming), and World History, which was mainly British and some other European history and touched briefly on other parts of the world.

As I recall, World History started all the way back with Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers (now mostly in modern-day Iraq! :eek::eek:).. then the ancient Egyptians.. ancient Greeks and Romans.. the birth of Christ and the spread of Christianity, Crusades (presented as definite Good Guys vs. Bad Guys conflicts) and all.. then the Brits and onward..

Australia?... let me think...: One day someone (Captain Cook?) "discovered" it.. it became part of the British Empire... then the British Commonwealth.. and now it is an independent country. Does that cover it pretty well? :D:rolleyes:

Yeah, that sounds about right. I did all that stuff in history to. It's interesting to know about other countries. It's good to travel to, and see first hand what one is interested in. I found the east coast of the USA very interesting, as I did the southern states, and Canada was great to. I had the opportunity of spending some time on the west coast, but opted out of that as I didn't think it had very much to offer.....it's sort of too touristy and Mickey Mouseish. :D
Australia is good tho. If you ever have the chance to get here, go for it.

[wombat2u2004]

I'm sorry that arrogant people have pointed out your mistakes. Get over it, blue. Rather than "feel dumb", learn from it, and appreciate the arrogant peoples help, knowing that it all does come back around. Or ignore it. And move on. And be nice to them on occasion.

My mom called it "killing them with kindness." It annoys the H377 out of your enemies.

I don't ignore them....no way. I give back as good as I receive.
Arrogant people and those who belittle others generally have deep issues, and their arrogance is usually borne out of their unhappiness and problems in life.
Nibble at them, I say. Meet one insult with another in return.
I mean, who really cares about rude people anyway ??? They deserve every bit of crap that comes back at them.....hee hee.

[wombat2u2004]

What I remember learning about Australia is that it was used by the British as a place to send the "unwanted" of society - criminals and paupers.

And I believe (thanks to a wonderfully clear video ChrisH posted here (http://vimeo.com/19352714)) that Australia is still a part of the Commonwealth.

Wow !!! You know all that ??? I'm impressed.
So....is there anything else you know ???? About anything I mean.

[mrspunkysmom]

I don't ignore them....no way. I give back as good as I receive.
Arrogant people and those who belittle others generally have deep issues, and their arrogance is usually borne out of their unhappiness and problems in life.
Nibble at them, I say. Meet one insult with another in return.
I mean, who really cares about rude people anyway ??? They deserve every bit of crap that comes back at them.....hee hee.

That is one method. Sadly, too many of them will complain about you to your boss so that's why I suggest the other method.

I had to deal with an arrogant inclusion teacher in a classroom a few years back. He would belittle me and correct me in front of the kids. When I said something to him but not in front of the kids, he reported me. My principle at the time was understanding. However, she said I had to find a way of dealing with him.

Some of those arrogant people are just close-minded bigoted socially-ignorant SLOBS, who are unable to empathize with other people.

[wombat2u2004]

Some of those arrogant people are just close-minded bigoted socially-ignorant SLOBS, who are unable to empathize with other people.

Oh I agree, their arrogance is only a fascade. Their true self isn't worth knowing. ;)

[mrspunkysmom]

Then you should have stopped right here instead of pontificating on your experience.

So anyone who offers you advice is 'pontificating?' So what do you call it when you are maligning other people professions?



So according to you, American teachers are well informed enough to teach High School kids the entire Australian history? Can you?

blue, I was referring to subjects in general not to Australian history. Sorry for the confusion.


HS American History class barely scratches the surface, that is why there are college majors in the subject.

We could devote and entire thread to this topic of "scratching the surface". could it be taught in a better way? Yes, but most of that has to do with expectations by teacher and parents of students.



I prefer telling someone, "I dont know, but lets find out what or why." It just seems more honest then BSing someone.

I so totally agree. It depends upon the question. If it's an off subject question, I re-direct, usually telling them to ask a teacher of that subject. If it's my subject of math, it depends upon how advance or 'esoteric' their question is. And also if it their question is related to fields that I like to study. I usually say, "give me a few minutes to prepare an explanation" rather than "I do not know" because the latter can spark derisive comments. American students these days are rude and crude, something you seem to be familiar with. The goal is to NOT give them ammunition with which to disrupt class.



ETA: When it comes out that you are BSing, stalling for time, your students, what does that do to your credibility as a teacher? My dad has the same attitude you do and he taught debate back in the '60s. Its a BS tactic that will bite you in the a$$.


Since as a teacher I have an enormous amount of activity on my part and the students part to direct each class period, stalling for time is a management skill, not just BSing. While I love a good academic debate with my students, most principles are arrogant a$$es, who love to reprimand you for being off topic. So I re-direct and keep to the topic of the day.



As a Wireman and crew chief I agree most of the younger generation just wants to be entertained. When I was in school we where there to learn not wait for the teacher to entertain us. The teachers I had where not entertainers the teachers today seem to be. If you wanted to be an entertainer maybe you should teach drama class.


I'm assuming you are not talking to me, since no where did I say I wanted to entertain. I have been fighting that since I started teaching. However I do think education does need to be interesting. We bore the children out of wanting to learn. This still goes back to parenting. Parents need to be involved in their child's education. They do not need to be in CONTROL of every aspect of the education system, if only because too many of them are thinking of the short term and not long long term.



Public school teachers are limited in what they can and cant teach, its called a curriculum.

Really ????? I didn't know. So that's why my boss makes me read them and produce pacing guides, unit plans, and lesson plans based upon the curriculum.



Teachers follow it to get there students to pass tests in order to prove their worth as a teacher. If the student learns nothing other then how to pass those tests what have they learned? How to pass those tests. Music teachers would be an exemption.



I dislike having my worth proved by a student test taken by a student that doesn't give a d@mn about their education. And I agree with your statement about teaching to the test. For years I fought teaching to the test. I lost.



Im sorry you feel arrogant enough to feel I think I "feel dumb". Ive taught apprentices geometry when they failed algebra in HS. Ive done what Educated Teachers have failed at with students they gave up on.

So why did you complain about arrogant people? I know I can be arrogant, but I suspect that you think anyone that displays self-confidence is arrogant and that is YOUR problem.



Can you calculate a electrical load for a 2500 square foot house? If I gave you the specs for a custom computer to be used for high definition video editing how long would it take you get me a build and cost list? I trained my own replacement for computer repair and virus mitigation at my last job.


No that is specialized knowledge, just like my specialized knowledge of math. I routinely calculate "fresh" problems in the classroom accurately in my head. This freaks them out and then I show them how to do it. I point out that this is my specialty. All the way up to The Calculus. I am required to be an expert in several fields, just not a few.

I didn't disparage your knowledge base of any field. I just told you to stop complaining about people that are arrogant. I didn't call you dumb but you are acting as if you feel like we are calling you dumb.



Can I spell well or use good grammar most of the time? Ill be the first to answer no.
You and most people. It's not ability; it's a matter of priorities for most people. Mot just don't think it's important.



Do I "feel dumb"? Not from arrogant people on this board I dont. If IM on a job, any job, and I miss something obvious I should have noticed on my own, I may feel dumb until I get the mistake corrected then I feel pretty dang good about myself.


1. Then why were you complaining. AGAIN. If you don't feel maligned, let the arrogant person be. Ignore them. If they are half-way smart, they'll get the message.

2. Good for you. Why don't you use that positive feeling on this board and make some positive contributions to our discussion without sounding like a misanthrope.



You should have listened to you mother, because she's right.

Seems like you could learn this lesson, too.

[blue]

So anyone who offers you advice is 'pontificating?' So what do you call it when you are maligning other people professions?

You werent offering advice, you where lecturing.


blue, I was referring to subjects in general not to Australian history. Sorry for the confusion.

Thank you.


We could devote and entire thread to this topic of "scratching the surface". could it be taught in a better way? Yes, but most of that has to do with expectations by teacher and parents of students.

In Anchorage its more about the expectations of the school administration and their funding. If the students arent learning the administration doesnt care as long as they pass the tests and graduate so they can get their funding. So if the teachers dont get the kids to pass the test, the administration gets angry.

More and more teachers and the school system are being used as babysitters and scapegoats for bad parenting, and that pisses me off as much as bad/lazy/unionized teachers.


I so totally agree. It depends upon the question. If it's an off subject question, I re-direct, usually telling them to ask a teacher of that subject. If it's my subject of math, it depends upon how advance or 'esoteric' their question is. And also if it their question is related to fields that I like to study. I usually say, "give me a few minutes to prepare an explanation" rather than "I do not know" because the latter can spark derisive comments. American students these days are rude and crude, something you seem to be familiar with. The goal is to NOT give them ammunition with which to disrupt class.

I apologize, what you do is not stalling and you should smack the person who told you to stall in the face for telling you to do so. If a student is disrupting class remove them, let the administration deal with them its what they are paid to do.


Since as a teacher I have an enormous amount of activity on my part and the students part to direct each class period, stalling for time is a management skill, not just BSing. While I love a good academic debate with my students, most principles are arrogant a$$es, who love to reprimand you for being off topic. So I re-direct and keep to the topic of the day.

Stalling is BSing. Part of what I do is paid to stall, so I know Im BSing when I do it. The difference between myself and my coworkers is I explain why i am stalling/BSing.


I'm assuming you are not talking to me, since no where did I say I wanted to entertain. I have been fighting that since I started teaching. However I do think education does need to be interesting. We bore the children out of wanting to learn. This still goes back to parenting. Parents need to be involved in their child's education. They do not need to be in CONTROL of every aspect of the education system, if only because too many of them are thinking of the short term and not long long term.

Bored (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bore). I guess that proves you are a math teacher, so you get a pass.

I had a physics teacher who recognized I had a grasp off the subject, he also wound up being my university mountaineering professor at the same time. He rode my a$$ in both classes. I didnt score well in my HS physics class but he told me after graduation I did better then the A+ students at grasping the fundamentals. Im beginning to think you should jump to private education the first chance you get.


Really ????? I didn't know. So that's why my boss makes me read them and produce pacing guides, unit plans, and lesson plans based upon the curriculum.

You still have to stick to the curriculum. Ild be really danged impressed if you took your students onto a job site and watch and learn math the way a lot of us tradesmen did, with a tape measure and pencil.


I dislike having my worth proved by a student test taken by a student that doesn't give a d@mn about their education. And I agree with your statement about teaching to the test. For years I fought teaching to the test. I lost.

Jump to a Private School as fast as possible! You may not like me but we agree far more then we disagree. Your talents will waste in a public school environment, do not become a stereotypical public school teacher.


So why did you complain about arrogant people? I know I can be arrogant, but I suspect that you think anyone that displays self-confidence is arrogant and that is YOUR problem.

Ill stand up to arrogance wherever I see it.

I know the difference between self-confidence and arrogance. Your arrogance led you to believe I "feel dumb". I generalized teachers when I have teachers, professors, and a Dean in my family.

I dont have a problem with self confidence, I have a problem with teachers calling me dumb when I can run circles around them in general.


No that is specialized knowledge, just like my specialized knowledge of math. I routinely calculate "fresh" problems in the classroom accurately in my head. This freaks them out and then I show them how to do it. I point out that this is my specialty. All the way up to The Calculus. I am required to be an expert in several fields, just not a few.

But you do math! Building a computer or wiring a house is based on math. How is that specialized? It would be giving your students a practical usage of the subject.

When I was an electrician, I taught math, geometry, and algebra to my apprentices.


I didn't disparage your knowledge base of any field. I just told you to stop complaining about people that are arrogant. I didn't call you dumb but you are acting as if you feel like we are calling you dumb.

You did when you felt the need to lecture me.

I learned more math on my own as an electrician then I did from a public school teacher


You and most people. It's not ability; it's a matter of priorities for most people. Mot just don't think it's important.

Yeah mot of us dont think its important.


1. Then why were you complaining. AGAIN. If you don't feel maligned, let the arrogant person be. Ignore them. If they are half-way smart, they'll get the message.

Ignoring the arrogant only emboldens them, the arrogant are like democrats. Dont forget you Maligned me by thinking I am dumb.


2. Good for you. Why don't you use that positive feeling on this board and make some positive contributions to our discussion without sounding like a misanthrope.

Ive tried.


Seems like you could learn this lesson, too.

I have.

[wombat2u2004]

Sheesh you two. You ought to get together and write a book. :p

[RICHARD]

Huma, Uma, Oprah?


I loved the way that some news outlets (lean forward) may the Weiner story out to be a tragedy.

This moron was posting pics of himself on the 'net.

talk about a self inflated idea of self-worth?


Altho I found the yelling at his 'press conference' to be rather funny? I thought the tragedy to be that he could not get his wife on the dais w/him.

[wombat2u2004]

http://img1.imagehousing.com/59/d7b62b14d38b032b09a43b16188cebfb.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/780885)

[Bonny]

http://img1.imagehousing.com/59/d7b62b14d38b032b09a43b16188cebfb.jpg (http://www.imagehousing.com/image/780885)

WOW! :eek: & only one hydrant? :(

[Lady's Human]

Blago guilty.

Now, if he's guilty of trying to sell the senate seat, what about the occupant?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Blago guilty.

Now, if he's guilty of trying to sell the senate seat, what about the occupant?

:eek::eek::eek:You think Blago was trying to sell the occupant as well?:eek::eek::eek:

[lizbud]

What I want to know is what the heck is going on in Wisconsin????


http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/dane_county_sheriffs_office_investigating_alleged_ prosser_chokehold_incident.php

[Edwina's Secretary]

What I want to know is what the heck is going on in Wisconsin????




Too much cheese. It binds the....mind?:D:D