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RICHARD

08-31-2010, 07:17 PM

Of course he realizes they are the children of the United States. Where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

19 American troops have been killed in Afghanistan since Saturday. No comments on that fact?

First, my comments were not directed at you, nothing personal.

Let's see, the 28th was Saturday........

A.J. Acosta died on that day.

So did 18 other soldiers that were someone else's kids, commodities like coal or wheat.........Dang, is that 9 coals and 9 wheats?

I apologize for paying extra special attention to him.

RICHARD

08-31-2010, 07:20 PM

End the false timetables, and equally as important end the fiction that we're not going to deal with people we officially don't like to end the mess.

DUDE,

My prez was talking about NO VICTORY LAPS and I missed it.

LOL, He praised GWB.........It's still his fault.:);)

blue

09-01-2010, 11:22 PM

Al Gore is now a terrorist leader.

Link. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-discovery-hostages-20100902,0,4192082.story)

Lady's Human

09-02-2010, 12:07 AM

Priceless, but Al's crap has been feeding ELF and ALF for years.

blue

09-02-2010, 12:15 AM

Al Gore is reaffirmed as a terrorist leader.

Link. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-discovery-hostages-20100902,0,4192082.story)

Priceless, but Al's crap has been feeding ELF and ALF for years.

Better?

ETA: Can I be banned for editing my own post?

Further ETA: Wait , I didnt edit my post. Can I be banned for changing the context of my quote?

Lady's Human

09-02-2010, 12:17 AM

Much. :D

blue

09-02-2010, 12:22 AM

:d

ETA: Maybe by including Algore in this thread Ill get an interview with Limbaugh.

lizbud

09-02-2010, 01:01 PM

Well, that's one way of saying it.:D Simplistic is accurate.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-01/politics/blair.memoirs.bush.clinton_1_tony-blair-bush-world-view-integrity?_s=PM:POLITICS

wombat2u2004

09-03-2010, 02:54 AM

Somebody has to foot the bill

The bill for Agent Orange comes due
By: David Rogers
August 30, 2010 04:32 AM EDT

Age and Agent Orange are closing in on Vietnam veterans, a legacy of hurt for those who served — and a very big bill for American taxpayers.

It’s a world turned upside down from decades ago when returning soldiers had to fight to get attention for deadly lymphomas linked to the herbicide. Now the frailties of men in their 60s — prostate cancer, diabetes, heart disease — lead the list of qualified Agent Orange disabilities, and the result has been an explosion in claims and the government’s liability.

The latest expansion, approved by Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki in October, adds ischemic heart disease and Parkinson’s and will cost at least $42 billion over the next 10 years. The VA estimates 349,000 individuals are already receiving Agent Orange disability benefits, and that number could soon reach 500,000 — or one out of every four surviving Vietnam veterans by the VA’s count.

As the costs rise, so do the questions about the science involved and the box Washington put itself in by failing to address Agent Orange’s impact more directly at the outset.

And because Vietnam service is still such a political minefield for American politicians, the most telling, often edgy debate is among veterans themselves.

“It is what it is. The anecdotal evidence of Vietnam veterans dying and getting diseases earlier is enormous,” said an exasperated Richard Weidman, an Army medic in the war and now legislative director for Vietnam Veterans of America. “I know five people in the VVA leadership alone who have been diagnosed with Parkinson’s. In no other side of my life have I seen anything like that.”

Yet for many who saw Vietnam firsthand, a 1-to-4 ratio of service-connected disabilities for Agent Orange strains credibility. And this is especially the case when the top conditions are heart disease and diabetes, two illnesses so linked to diet and lifestyle.

“Heart disease is a common phenomenon regardless of potential exposure to Agent Orange,” wrote Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) in a June letter to Shinseki challenging the secretary’s decision. A decorated Marine infantry officer in the war, Webb has since softened his tone after catching heat for his stance. But with his urging, the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee has scheduled a hearing for Sept. 23 on the new regulations, slated to take effect by December.

“I just want to understand the logic of how they decided this latest service connection,” said Webb. “This is a helluva awkward position to be in where I’ve been an advocate all my adult life on veterans’ benefits. I just want to know how they got to this point.”

Backing Webb is Anthony Principi, also a Vietnam veteran, and VA secretary under former President George W. Bush.

“He’s gotten some heat, but how can anyone question his patriotism and what he has done?” Principi said of Webb. “It’s got to be looked at; it’s got to be addressed. ... This is serious. The numbers are dramatic.”

“We’re 40 years later and we need to ask, is there a better way to do this? You want to do what’s right for veterans,” he told POLITICO. “At the same time, you want to protect the integrity of the disability compensation program.”

The convergence of cost pressures now is striking as captured by events on Tuesday this week.

That morning, the VA expects the Federal Register to publish the new Agent Orange rules to implement the latest expansion of benefits, including heart disease coverage. And that evening, President Barack Obama will speak to the nation on the U.S. transition between Iraq and Afghanistan, two fresh post-Vietnam wars with their own legacies of new disability claims.

In fiscal 2005, the annual cost of VA’s compensation obligations was $28.6 billion; for fiscal 2011, the number’s $48.8 billion — a $20.2 billion or 71 percent increase.

Still more worrisome is the government’s long-term unfunded liability, a number tucked away in VA’s annual financial reports. The latest for Sept. 30, 2009, shows an unfunded liability of $1.32 trillion for VA’s compensation and pensions account. That’s up almost $400 billion from $924 billion in a matter of five years.

Yet for many Vietnam veterans, now in their 60s and approaching retirement, the tax-free disability payments represent a valuable supplement to Social Security.

In the case of ischemic heart disease, VA is assuming that most claims will be treated as a 60 percent disability, which translates into about $1064 per month for a married veteran. If the same veteran were already on 20 percent disability for diabetes, the payment could be $1,333 or almost $16,000 annually.

The VA calculates that IHD claims will account for three-quarters — about $31.2 billion — of the 10-year costs associated with the latest expansion. Disability percentages are typically lower for diabetes, but the sheer number of claims — more than 239,000 since 2002 — dwarfs all others before heart disease was added.

For example, prostate cancer generated about 57,300 claims in the same period by VA’s count; lung cancer less than 11,600 and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma half that.

Congress will have 60 days to review the regulations put forward by Shinseki, but lawmakers already approved a $13.6 billion down payment to cover retroactive claims related to the secretary’s ruling. And with November’s election around the corner, no one expects a major rollback.

“The horse is out of the barn; it’s a mess.” said one outside scientist who has worked with VA on Agent Orange claims. House Veterans' Affairs Committee Chairman Bob Filner (D-Calif.) would go even further, extending the same disability benefits to thousands more veterans, such as “blue water” sailors who served on ships off the Vietnam coast.

“We owe this. It’s like a debt in my opinion,” Filner told POLITICO. “My motto is if you were there, we care.”

Indeed few topics touch more raw nerves at once: the bitter history of the Vietnam War, the often bad treatment of soldiers returning and the military’s early refusal to come to grips with the health impacts of its unprecedented use of the herbicide.

Agent Orange, which got its name from the orange-colored band on the storage barrels in Vietnam, was the most common of several dioxin-contaminated herbicide blends employed in Indochina over an almost 10-year period during the war. Literally thousands of tons were sprayed by the U.S. to try to destroy the jungle canopy and mangroves but also to clear tall grasses around American fire support bases.

It follows that exposure was greatest for those assigned to the spraying or in combat infantry units on the ground underneath — a fraction of the total U.S. force. But after a period of denial, the government gave up sorting out military records and said any veteran who put “boots on the ground” in Vietnam from early 1962 to May 1975 would be presumed exposed.

“Do you deny the deserving, or do you include in the presumption those people who may not have been exposed?” adds Dr. Victoria Cassano, a senior VA official dealing with environmental agents and Agent Orange. “The greater evil is to deny people who deservedly should be compensated for diseases because of this exposure.”

But Principi admits he still struggles with his role in what proved a sea change in policy, adding Type 2 diabetes to the list of presumed Agent Orange disabilities. The regulations were among the first order of business on his desk when he arrived in 2001, and from his war experience and prior service in VA, the new secretary brought with him an emotional tie to the late Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, who commanded Navy swift boat forces in Vietnam and watched his own son — a Navy Vietnam veteran as well — die of a cancer that the father attributed to Agent Orange exposure.

“It puts secretaries in a very untenable position,” Principi said. “I didn’t really care about the cost; our responsibility was to take care of veterans. But at the same time, I wanted to make sure the science was there and I just struggled with it.”

In fact, there’s a real disconnect between the outside scientists who advise the VA and the decision makers themselves. Congress can be faulted for the loose standard of proof it set in the 1991 Agent Orange Act to guide the process. But without more science — especially studies of veterans themselves — the integrity of the disability process is vulnerable to attack.

The chief outside actor is the Institute of Medicine within the National Academy of Sciences. Every two years since the mid-90s, IOM has produced detailed reports — volumes as thick as 682 pages with recommendations and updates of what scientists worldwide have learned relevant to Agent Orange’s impact.

Over time, these reports have led to a steady expansion of the diseases presumed to be associated with exposure to the herbicide. But often IOM and VA seem to talk past one another as to what the science means.

“You are asking for the balancing of two different value systems, to come up with an answer and address a harm done to a person,” said Dr. Jeanne Stellman of Columbia University who has done extensive research on Agent Orange. “How do you translate science into law and policy?”

“The decision is very easy if it says no or if it says absolutely. In between is when there is imprecision,” said Dr. Robert Jesse, VA’s principal deputy under secretary for health. And that often comes back to this question: What does IOM really mean when it says there is “limited or suggestive evidence of an association” between a disease and exposure to Agent Orange?

To hear IOM tell it, the category was never meant to be all decisive but more of a middle niche: “Something might be emerging here, something to keep an eye on,” one scientist told POLITICO. Along the same lines, a special IOM panel in 2008 went back and looked at the 2001 decision on diabetes and argued that the VA would have done better to test the association against “high-quality data for a representative cohort of veterans.”

VA officials answer that they are bound by the legal construct of the 1991 Agent Orange Act, which requires the secretary to respond within 60 days to any evidence of a positive association cited by IOM — however tentative.

“We can’t dismiss it,” said Cassano. “We have to take it as a positive association even though it states it as the lowest level of a positive association. We have to consider it credible.”

Asked if she were comfortable, as a scientist, with an end result where one in four Vietnam veterans could soon be getting service-connected Agent Orange disability payments, Cassano didn’t back down.

“Yes,” she said flatly. “We are comfortable with it; it is the right thing to do; it is the legal thing to do. ... When you are working in the VA and you have statutory requirements and basically a directive, a mission to be advocates for veterans, you are therefore bound by those parameters, and it really doesn’t matter much what outside scientists say.”

A closer look at Shinseki’s decision on IHD illustrates some of these conflicts.

It was a 14-member panel for the IOM that set the ball rolling in its 2008 update, released last year. A similar panel in 2006 had been divided on the heart disease question, but after revisiting the question, IOM elevated the illness to the category of “limited or suggestive evidence of association.”

That decision was driven in part by newly published evidence showing a dose-response curve: the greater the exposure to Agent Orange, the greater occurrence of heart ailments. “When you see a dose-response curve, then you are much more inclined to be thinking causal,” said Jesse.

The VA had contributed an important piece with a 2006 study analyzing the incidence of heart disease among Vietnam veterans who had served in the Army Chemical Corps. And Shinseki, who himself served in Vietnam, found that this built on well-established evidence that dioxins present in Agent Orange could damage blood vessels. “Veterans who endure health problems deserve timely decisions based on solid evidence,” he said.

Nonetheless, the leader of the IOM panel, Dr. Richard Fenske of the University of Washington, told POLITICO that he was “surprised by the speed” with which the VA decided to add the presumption for heart disease. And Weidman argued that the department repeatedly ignores what he sees as a central tenet of the 1991 law: that more should be invested in scientific studies of veterans themselves.

“The whole concept of the 1991 law was to leave it to science, not politics, but we haven’t invested in the science in the 20 years since,” he said. In a shot back at Webb, he added: “If you want more scientific data, fund the damn science.”

For all the debate over Agent Orange, what’s most surprising is how little or no effort has been made to track down specific infantry units that operated in the widely sprayed areas of Vietnam.

Instead, decisions are more often dependent on extrapolating data from studies of other populations: European and Asian chemical and agricultural workers, for example. The VA study of the Army Chemical Corps stands out for at least being Vietnam-centric. But even there, the focus did not include the great many more ground troops who were not involved in the actual spraying.

With so many claims on file now, the VA could work backward, identifying which units veterans served with in the war and their location in respect to the spraying. “The associations may be very much stronger if we really had the proximity data of where people served,” Jesse said. But to his frustration, Weidman has found that the VA’s health data is kept in a manner that this is not easily searchable. “They don’t want to know,” he said.

The biggest new effort is an old one: After almost a decade of delay, the VA is preparing to make another run at the long-promised National Vietnam Veterans Longitudinal Study to take a broad view of lasting health problems. A contract is expected to be awarded this fall, and, if successful, this could be the broadest assessment of ongoing Vietnam veteran health problems since the late '80s.

But the more lasting impact of the Agent Orange experience may be on the treatment of future veterans — not Vietnam’s.

At the end of a long interview, VA officials perk up most when the subject turns to VLER — their new “virtual lifetime electronic records” initiative to track each future veteran’s health charts from enlistment to grave. Included would be data from the military as to what toxic threats a soldier might be exposed to. “We will be able to know what levels of exposure there were to chemicals,” said Cassano.

And did Agent Orange influence this?

“Oh, certainly it has,” she said.

© 2010 Capitol News Company, LLC

RICHARD

09-03-2010, 12:42 PM

Somebody has to foot the bill

At the end of a long interview, VA officials perk up most when the subject turns to VLER — their new “virtual lifetime electronic records” initiative to track each future veteran’s health charts from enlistment to grave. Included would be data from the military as to what toxic threats a soldier might be exposed to. “We will be able to know what levels of exposure there were to chemicals,” said Cassano.

And did Agent Orange influence this?

“Oh, certainly it has,” she said.

I worked in a med records room for 13 years. While I do not agree with the
goverment putting EVERYONES records on the internet, I do not see why this was not done earlier for the vets. IT is the least we can do for them.

---------------------------

P.S.

I saw that GWB was playing golf this morning.

While Earl tears up the East Coast he is out and about, playing games.

You would have thought he learned from Katrina.:confused::eek:;)

CatsMeow

09-03-2010, 03:10 PM

Of course he realizes they are the children of the United States. Where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

19 American troops have been killed in Afghanistan since Saturday. No comments on that fact?

Gasp. Not 19 AMERICAN TROOPS! Ugh. Why is there war, anyway?! :confused: It doesn't make since, when we all have the option of living in peace. :mad:

Lady's Human

09-03-2010, 03:24 PM

Answer that one and you'll have EARNED a Nobel prize.

Economics, racism, many other Isms......

Lost of reasons for war.

Dividing people is easy. Unification takes work. Work is hard, people by and large are lazy, work doesn't happen, division and strife take over.

Bonny

09-03-2010, 05:33 PM

wombat2u2004

09-03-2010, 09:29 PM

What would really be nice if Vets could receive a special card to go to the medical care center of their choice. We already are paying for VA Hosptials, doctors & staff, just keep the big major VA Hospitals open. A lot of Vets have to drive a long way to get treatment at a VA Hospital the way it is. At least give the Vets a choice. It would be a sanity saver for everyone.

Here we have what is called a "Gold Card".
It entitles the bearer to free health care, meds, doctors, dentists, opto, hospital....everything related to the vets health....the card can be used anywhere anytime. Everything is completely free. And if one has to travel a distance to see a doctor or go to hospital etc etc....the card entitles you also to travel, accommodation and meal costs.
I have had one now for about three years........it's for the rest of my life.
If a vet has no war related problems, then they don't get the card until they turn 70....and when the vet dies, his wife gets it for the rest of her life.

RICHARD

09-03-2010, 10:25 PM

Here we have what is called a "Gold Card".
It entitles the bearer to free health care, meds, doctors, dentists, opto, hospital....everything related to the vets health....the card can be used anywhere anytime. Everything is completely free. And if one has to travel a distance to see a doctor or go to hospital etc etc....the card entitles you also to travel, accommodation and meal costs.
I have had one now for about three years........it's for the rest of my life.
If a vet has no war related problems, then they don't get the card until they turn 70....and when the vet dies, his wife gets it for the rest of her life.

Wow...good for you!!!

----------------------

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/03/jan-brewers-bad-night-conjures-up-other-memorable-unscripted-d/

I have three words for Ms Brewer.

Teleprompter.

;)

lizbud

09-05-2010, 05:08 PM

I really don't get the idea of carring a cross to remind people of the
911 terriost attack.:confused: Seems like mixing religion with a hateful
attack inspired and carried out for political reasons.

http://www.justnews.com/news/24863991/detail.html?source=mia

CatsMeow

09-05-2010, 05:34 PM

i really don't get the idea of carring a cross to remind people of the
911 terriost attack.:confused: Seems like mixing religion with a hateful
attack inspired and carried out for political reasons.

http://www.justnews.com/news/24863991/detail.html?source=mia

exactly

CatsMeow

09-05-2010, 05:35 PM

hahahahahah

I hope your hand hurts when you write out the check for the back taxes on your boat/yacht/dinghy, you Yutz.:D

Aheh heh heh

phesina

09-05-2010, 08:39 PM

CatsMeow

09-06-2010, 07:32 AM

Aside from which.. Christians were hardly the only victims in the 9/22 attacks.

You're kidding. So we, in this family, are Christians. And they were the victims..... oh my. I had no idea

Lady's Human

09-06-2010, 07:41 AM

People of many, many races, creeds and religions died in the 9/11 attacks. There were Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Sikh, and more killed in the attack.

Christians were not the only victims.

blue

09-08-2010, 01:19 AM

Has there been a post about the Koran Burning Minister?

Karen

09-08-2010, 08:57 AM

pomtzu

09-08-2010, 10:04 AM

No, but this is one incidence when I think the 24-hour news cycle has made this one guy's stupidity much more of an issue than it ever needed to be. He's one guy in a church in Florida. Let him do whatever he wants, but if the news media hadn't decided it was so interesting/newsworthy/controversial, no one outside of his own community need have ever learned of it. Now it is internationally covered, which is just pathetic.

Does he have the right to do it? Yes. But I think he might be better served in his understanding of Islam and indeed his own religion if he read one, instead of burning it. But that wouldn't make him famous, now would it?

I've seen several reports on t.v. regarding this, yet not one of anyone supporting him. Everyone from the Pope to the Holy Rollers is against him. In one interview with him, he was asked if anything would change his mind about it. He said if God sent him a message and told him not to do it, then he wouldn't, but he didn't expect to hear any such message. Now isn't that a surprise??? :rolleyes: I think he'd better be looking over his shoulder, and fearing for his own safety, for quite some time to come, whether he does it or not! :mad:

Lady's Human

09-08-2010, 12:09 PM

Frankly if he's piling Korans up and burning them he's turned off his link with God.

Nothing is gained by inflaming the masses. It's easier to win converts by kindness, and spreading hatred is hardly what Christ called us to do.

pomtzu

09-08-2010, 04:02 PM

I think he'd better be looking over his shoulder, and fearing for his own safety, for quite some time to come, whether he does it or not! :mad:

And I just heard on the news that he has already received over 100 death threats. Frankly, I'm surprised that it hasn't been more.

I hope that people keep their heads about this - it's not going to solve anything by killing him. :mad:

Medusa

09-08-2010, 04:23 PM

lizbud

09-08-2010, 05:26 PM

No, but this is one incidence when I think the 24-hour news cycle has made this one guy's stupidity much more of an issue than it ever needed to be. He's one guy in a church in Florida. Let him do whatever he wants, but if the news media hadn't decided it was so interesting/newsworthy/controversial, no one outside of his own community need have ever learned of it. Now it is internationally covered, which is just pathetic.

Does he have the right to do it? Yes. But I think he might be better served in his understanding of Islam and indeed his own religion if he read one, instead of burning it. But that wouldn't make him famous, now would it?

I think that about sums it all up nicely. The Media made this into a International event & they will probably stand by and report the burning
event for public consumption too. Hey, "they are just reporting the news".

Right.:rolleyes:

Lady's Human

09-08-2010, 05:56 PM

You mean hype the event shamelessly for public consumption?

After all, they're just creating the news.

popcornbird

09-08-2010, 08:39 PM

blue

09-08-2010, 11:28 PM

May that evil minister rot in the fires of hell.

He is not only a disgrace to the Christian faith, he is a disgrace to humanity.

Shame on him. Shame on anyone who participates with him in this evil deed. Shame on anyone who supports him for this act.

I agree with you to a point, maybe just one point.

He is disgracing the Christian Faith. However, he has the Right to do it.

I wonder what the Vegas odds are of him living if he goes through with this.

wombat2u2004

09-09-2010, 12:59 AM

May that evil minister rot in the fires of hell.

Whoaaaaaa.....I wouldn't wish that one on my worst enemy.
I'm kinda glad you ain't running the country.

Medusa

09-09-2010, 08:00 AM

I wish the media would have just ignored the idiot. There's enough of this nonsense as it is but this is just fanning the flames. He's hardly a good example of a true Christian and definitely not as a good minister of the Word.

On the other hand, if the media didn't cover it, they'd be accused of "Islamaphobia" and hatred of Muslims, of trying to cover up the activity of a so-called Christian man and thereby favoring Christianity. Initially I was annoyed that they gave it coverage but now I see that they must do so.

momoffuzzyfaces

09-09-2010, 12:27 PM

Medusa

09-09-2010, 01:03 PM

I know how awful I feel when I hear of people burning crosses and Bibles. No one should deliberately do something they know will hurt others. I hope those of the Muslim faith realize he is just one crazy old man, he doesn't represent most of us.

Well, I see no reason why they shouldn't realize it. After all, they're asking Americans to not judge an entire religion or all Muslims on the basis of a few radicals who attacked our country.

Karen

09-09-2010, 01:24 PM

On the other hand, if the media didn't cover it, they'd be accused of "Islamaphobia" and hatred of Muslims, of trying to cover up the activity of a so-called Christian man and thereby favoring Christianity. Initially I was annoyed that they gave it coverage but now I see that they must do so.

Why would they be accused of Islamophibia if they ignored this one crazy guy?

Medusa

09-09-2010, 01:27 PM

Why would they be accused of Islamophibia if they ignored this one crazy guy?

Because it would seem like they're favoring Christianity and excusing his actions rather than exposing them for what they are.

Karen

09-09-2010, 01:37 PM

But they don't report all the other crazy people, are they therefore in favor of everyone else? No, they just deem it uninteresting. Ignoring them is not condoning them it's ignoring them. By covering this man's hatred, they are promoting it.

Medusa

09-09-2010, 04:40 PM

Reporting is not synonymous w/condoning. It may be giving that person his 15 minutes but that's all it's doing. Besides, he's already backed down and has decided not to burn the Quran.

Lady's Human

09-09-2010, 04:47 PM

This is truly a catch 22 situation.

The media should have just written this off as one lone idiot, but they didn't in their ever pressing chase for ratings. Screw responsible journalism, we got to get those numbers!

Regardless of WHAT happens with this nutjob, now that it has hit the national and international media, it will be used by the propaganda machine of extreme islam to twist for their own purposes.

I truly wish that someone in the media would pull their heads out of their posterior JUST ONCE......and think before they report. This isn't checkers, guys, this is chess, and the terrorists are about 10 moves ahead.

momoffuzzyfaces

09-09-2010, 05:07 PM

Lady's Human

09-10-2010, 04:26 AM

Westboro Baptist had to chime in......

Maybe we can kill two birds with one stone?

http://www.ocala.com/article/20100909/ARTICLES/100909743/1412?Title=Westboro-Baptish-Church-to-burn-Qurans-if-Dove-doesn-t

Medusa

09-10-2010, 06:36 AM

Just heard on the news that the pastor has agreed not to burn the Quran because the Imam has decided not to go ahead and build the Mosque near ground zero. The pastor is going to New York to meet with the Imam.

According to the Imam, there is no such agreement. There may be a meeting but Rauf and the man that the pastor met with said that they intend to go ahead w/building it there as planned.

wombat2u2004

09-10-2010, 09:26 AM

momoffuzzyfaces

09-10-2010, 01:15 PM

According to the Imam, there is no such agreement. There may be a meeting but Rauf and the man that the pastor met with said that they intend to go ahead w/building it there as planned.

This is what really sticks in my craw. They are bound and determined to build that Mosque there no matter who it hurts but they expect everyone to be sensitive to their being upset at the burning of the Quran. I still think if you are still doing something that you know will hurt others, it's wrong. They are wrong to build that Mosque there since it hurts so many and that pastor is wrong to burn their Holy book. Both sides need some sensitivity training. :love:

lizbud

09-10-2010, 04:32 PM

This is what really sticks in my craw. They are bound and determined to build that Mosque there no matter who it hurts but they expect everyone to be sensitive to their being upset at the burning of the Quran. I still think if you are still doing something that you know will hurt others, it's wrong. They are wrong to build that Mosque there since it hurts so many and that pastor is wrong to burn their Holy book. Both sides need some sensitivity training. :love:

Moff, I agree with you.:) Does anybody think our soldiers are going to be
treated any better if there is no Koran burning? I think too much has been
made about how this will affect us or them.

pomtzu

09-10-2010, 04:46 PM

There's already been one death in Afghanistan during demonstrations related to this. That's just one of probably many more that this God-fearing Christian pastor in FL can carry on his shoulders. :mad: What in the world is he trying to prove??? Enough already! This jerk isn't going to change any minds. If they want to build the mosque near ground zero, his actions are not going to stop it. If anything - it will probably make all involved just more determined. My opinion of course..........

Lady's Human

09-10-2010, 04:59 PM

Moff, I agree with you.:) Does anybody think our soldiers are going to be
treated any better if there is no Koran burning? I think too much has been
made about how this will affect us or them.

This is going to be a counterinsurgency , Psyops and specops nightmare.
Point blank.

There are moderate muslims on the fence and supporting the US who will easily be pushed over to the side of the Taliban.

THanks, Rev.

I have a hard time seeing how this act falls anywhere under Christ's interpretation of the law.

blue

09-10-2010, 09:50 PM

Cliff notes.

Mosques have specific architectural rules in the Muslim world. The "Ground Zero Mosque" does not follow those rules. The proposed building would historically be a "Rabat", structures built in enemy territory and used for resting troops as well as training for further raids into enemy territory.

Islam center's eerie echo of ancient terror

By AMIR TAHERI

Last Updated: 8:35 AM, September 10, 2010

Posted: 5:34 AM, September 10, 2010

Should there be a mosque near Ground Zero? In fact, what is pro posed is not a mosque -- nor even an "Islamic cultural center."

In Islam, every structure linked to the faith and its rituals has a precise function and character. A mosque is a one-story gallery built around an atrium with a mihrab (a niche pointing to Mecca) and one, or in the case of Shiites two, minarets.

Other Islamic structures, such as harams, zawiyyahs, husseinyiahs and takiyahs, also obey strict architectural rules. Yet the building used for spreading the faith is known as Dar al-Tabligh, or House of Proselytizing.

This 13-story multifunctional structure couldn't be any of the above.

The groups fighting for the project know this; this is why they sometimes call it an Islamic cultural center. But there is no such thing as an Islamic culture.

Islam is a religion, not a culture. Each of the 57 Muslim-majority nations has its own distinct culture -- and the Bengali culture has little in common with the Nigerian. Then, too, most of those countries have their own cultural offices in the US, especially in New York.

Islam is an ingredient in dozens of cultures, not a culture on its own.

In theory, at least, the culture of American Muslims should be American. Of course, this being America, each ethnic community has its distinct cultural memories -- the Iranians in Los Angeles are different from the Arabs in Dearborn.

In fact, the proposed structure is known in Islamic history as a rabat -- literally a connector. The first rabat appeared at the time of the Prophet.

The Prophet imposed his rule on parts of Arabia through a series of ghazvas, or razzias (the origin of the English word "raid"). The ghazva was designed to terrorize the infidels, convince them that their civilization was doomed and force them to submit to Islamic rule. Those who participated in the ghazva were known as the ghazis, or raiders.

After each ghazva, the Prophet ordered the creation of a rabat -- or a point of contact at the heart of the infidel territory raided. The rabat consisted of an area for prayer, a section for the raiders to eat and rest and facilities to train and prepare for future razzias. Later Muslim rulers used the tactic of ghazva to conquer territory in the Persian and Byzantine empires. After each raid, they built a rabat to prepare for the next razzia.

It is no coincidence that Islamists routinely use the term ghazva to describe the 9/11 attacks against New York and Washington. The terrorists who carried out the attack are referred to as ghazis or shahids (martyrs).

Thus, building a rabat close to Ground Zero would be in accordance with a tradition started by the Prophet. To all those who believe and hope that the 9/11 ghazva would lead to the destruction of the American "Great Satan," this would be of great symbolic value.

Faced with the anger of New Yorkers, the promoters of the project have started calling it the Cordoba House, echoing President Obama's assertion that it would be used to propagate "moderate" Islam.

The argument is that Cordoba, in southern Spain, was a city where followers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism lived together in peace and produced literature and philosophy.

In fact, Cordoba's history is full of stories of oppression and massacre, prompted by religious fanaticism. It is true that the Muslim rulers of Cordoba didn't force their Christian and Jewish subjects to accept Islam. However, non-Muslims could keep their faith and enjoy state protection only as dhimmis (bonded ones) by paying a poll tax in a system of religious apartheid.

If whatever peace and harmony that is supposed to have existed in Cordoba were the fruit of "Muslim rule," the subtext is that the United States would enjoy similar peace and harmony under Islamic rule.

A rabat in the heart of Manhattan would be of great symbolic value to those who want a high-profile, "in your face" projection of Islam in the infidel West.

This thirst for visibility is translated into increasingly provocative forms of hijab, notably the niqab (mask) and the burqa. The same quest mobilized hundreds of Muslims in Paris the other day to close a whole street so that they could have a Ramadan prayer in the middle of the rush hour.

One of those taking part in the demonstration told French radio that the aim was to "show we are here." "You used to be in our capitals for centuries," he said. "Now, it is our turn to be in the heart of your cities."

Before deciding whether to support or oppose the "Cordoba" project, New Yorkers should consider what it is that they would be buying.

Bonny

09-11-2010, 08:34 AM

Is it true in Islam the family comes first, then the tribes, & then the country? I was told by a person that served in the military in Iraq that Islam is the religion & no culture goes with it. He said that there are now states in Iraq that have been set up. The tribes fight amongst each other so there is unrest inside the Islam religion itself.

lizbud

09-18-2010, 01:24 PM

Oh gosh, don't tell me I have to chose just one. I want to go to both.:D

http://www.wishtv.com/dpps/entertainment/television/colbert-stewart-plan-rallies-on-national-mall-nt10-jgr_3584269

Grace

10-27-2010, 03:14 PM

The motto of the United States Military Academy (West Point) is Duty, Honor, Country.

Joe Miller, Senate candidate in Alaska, is a West Point grad.

The release of documents late Tuesday showing that Republican Senate nominee Joe Miller of Alaska lied about his misconduct while serving as a government attorney in Fairbanks delivered yet another blow to a tea party-backed candidate who was considered a shoo-in just two months ago, when he defeated incumbent Lisa Murkowski in the GOP primary.

The revelations, reported by the Associated Press and the Web site Alaska Dispatch based on public documents that a judge ordered released on Tuesday, show that Miller was caught using colleagues' computers for political business and that he lied about it repeatedly before admitting the wrongdoing. Miller was conducting his own poll in an effort to oust a state GOP chairman, and he used his colleagues' computers to vote in the poll, then erased their computers' caches to hide what he did.

source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/26/AR2010102606765.html?hpid=topnews)

wombat2u2004

10-28-2010, 07:52 AM

The motto of the United States Military Academy (West Point) is Duty, Honor, Country.
Joe Miller, Senate candidate in Alaska, is a West Point grad.

So was Custer.

Grace

10-28-2010, 09:24 AM

So was Custer.

And he finished last in his class.

blue

10-28-2010, 10:26 PM

The motto of the United States Military Academy (West Point) is Duty, Honor, Country.

Joe Miller, Senate candidate in Alaska, is a West Point grad.

source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/26/AR2010102606765.html?hpid=topnews)

I didnt see, in the Democratic Political Ad... sorry news article, any mention of Joe Miller's offer to resign or any mention that the resignation was refused. Nor did I see any mention that the poll was non binding and that Mr Miller was testing the web site that was hosting the poll.

blue

10-29-2010, 11:44 PM

Grace, got any more pro liberal propaganda to push before Nov 2?

Grace

10-30-2010, 07:32 AM

Grace, got any more pro liberal propaganda to push before Nov 2?

For blue. (http://www.dodgeglobe.com/news/x1696242079/Liberal-Air-Museum-schedules-Veterans-Day-Appreciation)

lizbud

10-30-2010, 09:31 AM

For blue. (http://www.dodgeglobe.com/news/x1696242079/Liberal-Air-Museum-schedules-Veterans-Day-Appreciation)

Good one Grace.:) Betcha he won't get it.;)

blue

10-30-2010, 10:33 PM

Dont take that bet. I dont get what that has to do with what I asked for.

I asked for pro liberal political propaganda. That puff piece doesnt qualify and it takes place after the Nov 2 election.

Im sure yall Libs are perfectly happy with Lisa Murkowsky silencing a radio host for encouraging listeners to do exactly what she has done in the upcoming election, register as a write in candidate.

Grace

10-30-2010, 10:45 PM

Grace, got any more pro liberal propaganda to push before Nov 2?

Dont take that bet. I dont get what that has to do with what I asked for.

I asked for pro liberal political propaganda. That puff piece doesnt qualify and it takes place after the Nov 2 election.

Im sure yall Libs are perfectly happy with Lisa Murkowsky silencing a radio host for encouraging listeners to do exactly what she has done in the upcoming election, register as a write in candidate.

You asked for pro liberal propaganda to push before Nov 2 - that is what I gave you. You didn't say the event had to occur before November 2nd; you just asked that it be pushed before that date. You did not use the adjective political in your original query. You got exactly what you asked for - take it or leave it.

I voted on Friday - the election is over as far as I'm concerned. Find your own propaganda.

A puff piece - wonder how the Veterans would view that as a description of an event honoring them for their service.

blue

10-31-2010, 12:48 AM

Find your own propaganda..

No.

I asked for you to provide me with Liberal propaganda, and you failed to do so. I am now free to assume you are backing Lisa Murkowski in her attempt at Electioneering on Nov 2.

Thanks.

blue

10-31-2010, 12:53 AM

\wonder how the Veterans would view that as a description of an event honoring them for their service.

Ill ask them how they feel about being grouped as liberal. Most of the ones I know wont take kindly to being called Liberal.

Grace

10-31-2010, 07:52 AM

liz was right - you didn't get it.

Have a nice Tuesday, blue.

Thanks for the entertainment http://bestsmileys.com/goodbye/5.gif

blue

10-31-2010, 09:35 PM

liz was right - you didn't get it.

Have a nice Tuesday, blue.

Thanks for the entertainment http://bestsmileys.com/goodbye/5.gif

You and Liz can go lay down. I admitted I didnt get it. I guess you took the bet and lost.

Glad to know the libs are full on supporting Electioneering when your ends are met. Im sure yall would be all fired up if a Conservative was pulling the same BS, and Ild be right there with you. Yalls double standards arent mine.

Grace

11-05-2010, 01:51 PM

If FOX had the same standards as MSNBC - why most all of their newscasters would be suspended.

Keith Olbermann, the top anchor on MSNBC, was suspended on Friday after the channel discovered that he had made campaign contributions to three Democrats.

The MSNBC president, Phil Griffin, issued a statement saying, “I became aware of Keith’s political contributions late last night. Mindful of NBC News policy and standards, I have suspended him indefinitely without pay.”

http://www.clipartguide.com/_thumbs/0511-0901-1901-2131.jpg

blue

11-06-2010, 01:38 AM

Is Olbermann a Commentator or a Newscaster? I dont have a TV so I dont know.

Either way its full on Carp that he be put on unpaid leave for his private actions away from work.

If he was a Newscaster and as such endorsed Republican canidates I can see sacking him. If he was a Newscaster and as such endorsed Democrats I can see sacking him.

If he was a commentator he can endorse anybody he dang well chooses and his bosses can go pound sand. If Olbermann is a commentator I hope he sues for wrongfull termination.

A newscaster is still a private citizen and can donate his/her money and private time however they damn well choose, MSNBC is very out of line for this move. If the higher ups at MSNBC believed in freedom of speech Olbermann would still be at his job.

Grace, do you understand the difference between a commentator and a newscaster?

lizbud

11-08-2010, 09:12 AM

Grace

11-15-2010, 08:55 PM

Tomorrow, November 16th, Army Staff Sgt. Salvatore Giunta, 25, will become the first living recipient of the Medal of Honor from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

He will receive the award for his actions in response to an ambush in Afghanistan's dangerous Korengal Valley on Oct. 25, 2007. Two U.S. soldiers were killed in the ambush and several others were wounded.

Bob Herbert, of the NY Times, wrote a powerful piece about the Korengal Valley the other day.

November 12, 2010
Killing and Dying
By BOB HERBERT

Boston

In the spring of 2007, American soldiers in the Second Platoon of Battle Company, part of a regiment in the 173rd Airborne Brigade, began a 15-month deployment in the Korengal Valley in eastern Afghanistan. It was one of the most dangerous places in the country.

A feature-length film called “Restrepo” documents the soldiers’ experiences and captures the almost primeval elements — the living, breathing, killing and dying — of a combat tour with a close-up intensity that is, frankly, chilling.

When the guys, many of them unbearably young, show up in the grim, mountainous, sparsely populated landscape, they react with what seems like a combination of awe and dread. One said his mind told him he would die there. Another wondered, “What are we doing here?”

The film, which won the grand jury prize for an American documentary at the Sundance Film Festival this year, was made by Sebastian Junger, an author who wrote the “The Perfect Storm” in the 1990s, and Tim Hetherington, a British photographer. Junger also wrote a book about the Second Platoon’s tour called “War.”

I interviewed Mr. Junger before an audience at the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library here on Veterans Day, and he mentioned “how very nonpolitical” the soldiers were about the war. As they saw it, their job was simply to fight it.

What stands out in both the film and the book, besides the mind-boggling dangers of combat, are the horrendous conditions these troops were forced to endure and the maddening ambiguities of their mission. They lived in filth, isolation and constant fear, which they almost always had to mask. And there was no coherent answer for the soldier who asked what they were doing there. He might as well have been asking the wind.

Here, for example, is Capt. Dan Kearney of Battle Company, speaking in the film to a group of bearded elders from a nearby village:

“You know, 5 or 10 years from now, the Korengal Valley will have a road going through it that’s paved and we can make more money, make you guys richer, make you guys more powerful. What I need, though, is I need you to join with the government, you know, provide us with that security — or help us provide you guys with that security — and I’ll flood this whole place with money and with projects and with health care and with everything.”

Was that ever really going to happen? Was that kind of nation-building the ultimate goal of the incursion into the valley? And, if so, did it have any real connection to the attacks by Al Qaeda on Sept. 11, 2001?

You both feel for and admire the troops cast into this pit of ambiguity. We watch them function in unison and with remarkable courage and poise when under enemy fire, and we watch them weep for comrades wounded and lost. We also see them fight without anger among themselves to help fill long, nerve-racking hours of boredom, and we watch them dance wildly to a favorite song.

Restrepo is the name of a shabby outpost that the men built and then named for their friend, Pfc. Juan Restrepo, a 20-year-old medic and aspiring doctor who was shot and killed soon after they arrived in the valley.

An environment in which the primary goals are to kill and to avoid being killed takes a psychological toll that is greater than most civilians realize. A soldier named Anderson told Junger, “I’ve only been here four months, and I can’t believe how messed up I already am. I went to the counselor and he asked if I smoked cigarettes and I told him no and he said, ‘Well, you may want to think about starting.’ ”

Misha Pemble-Belkin, who was called Peanut Butter by his fellow soldiers, and then simply Butters, talked softly about trying to save a badly wounded colleague. “You could see it in his face that he’s slowly dying,” he said. “He was turning really ghost-looking. His eyes started sinking in his head, and he started to get real brown around his eyes. And he kept saying, ‘I’m getting really dizzy. I want to go to sleep.’ ”

Pemble-Belkin used an expletive as he tried to explain how rough it was to watch one of his best friends die, essentially in his arms. At one point in the film, he described his reluctance to tell his family about his experiences: “When Restrepo got killed, it was a few days before my mom’s birthday, so I had to suck it up when I called my mom on her birthday and act like everything was O.K. and say, ‘Hey, Mom, happy birthday. Yeah, I’m doing real good out here. Everything’s fine.’ ”

The film closes with the printed words, onscreen: “In late 2009, the U.S. military began withdrawing from the Korengal Valley.”

source (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/opinion/13herbert.html?ref=bobherbert)

Grace

11-15-2010, 08:57 PM

BTW - the Medal will presented at 2pm EST. C-SPAN will no doubt carry it. Maybe CNN, also.

Grace

11-16-2010, 06:15 PM

Medal of Honor presentation, 16 November 2010.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2010/11/16/medal-honor-staff-sergeant-salvatore-giunta

Video lasts 23 minutes.

RICHARD

11-17-2010, 12:04 PM

I have been very tough on Nancy Pelosi for a while.:(

Why stop now?

I was LMAO when I saw a small clip of her being escorted with her Giant Gavel in hand.

She reminded me of Granny out of the "home" for a walk around the block.
Guys at her elbow guiding her down the street, She's all smiles to out in the sunshine, carrying her hammer and looking mighty happy about the whole thing-way too funny.

Actually?

It warmed the cockles of my heart.:D

lizbud

11-17-2010, 12:17 PM

RICHARD

11-17-2010, 12:24 PM

Don't get too excited Richard, she isn't going very far.:).

She can walk out into traffic for all I care.:eek::confused:

I was just happy to see her out and about and carrying that gavel.

When my mom was in the hospital, there was a woman in the same facility with dementia that always had a baby/doll in her arms.

As long as NP doesn't swing her hammer around, I wish her the best?;)

Grace

11-19-2010, 03:25 PM

Interesting -

At least two new GOP House members now say they won’t enroll in congressional health care programs. Rep.-elect Bobby Schilling of Illinois told ABC’s “Topline”: “My family and I are bringing our own health care to Washington … Congress shouldn’t have anything better than the American people.” Another to-be member refusing congressional insurance is Rep.-elect Mike Kelly of Pennsylvania, who says “Why should my health care as a public official be any different than anybody else’s?” (Hat tip: POLITICO Pulse)

The declarations come after another GOP Rep.-elect, Andy Harris of Maryland, stood up during freshman orientation this week and demanded to know why his government health care plan would take a month to kick in. Some Democrats are calling on Republicans pushing health-care repeal to forgo their own government health care plans out of principle.

Should current and incoming members of Congress who opposed the health care reform bill turn down their government-provided health care?

source (http://www.politico.com/arena/)

lizbud

11-19-2010, 06:04 PM

Interesting -

source (http://www.politico.com/arena/)

I've been reading about the Rep. from Maryland and Olbermann had a
spot about him on his show. What a jerk. Why can't he buy his own
insurance like we do? With all the budject cutting ideas floating around,
I have yet to hear about doing away with insurance & pensions for life,
that all of Congress enjoy now.

momoffuzzyfaces

11-20-2010, 12:20 PM

I was just happy to see her out and about and carrying that gavel.

As long as NP doesn't swing her hammer around, I wish her the best?;)

She can keep her stupid gavel but she needs to give the jet back!!!! :love:

RICHARD

11-20-2010, 01:08 PM

She can keep her stupid gavel but she needs to give the jet back!!!! :love:

I hope they charge her for any extra mileage?:confused:;)

lizbud

11-22-2010, 12:10 PM

I've always admired Barbara Bush for her frankness & her humor.:)

http://www.theindychannel.com/politics/25872665/detail.html

cassiesmom

11-22-2010, 12:41 PM

A religion related question ... Sana posted about Eid al Ada (sp?) and I saw a story on the news last night, Lester Holt on NBC. I like him because he's from Chicago. He was with another NBC news reporter who speaks both languages and they were in the home of a family, father and mother and two daughters. They were introducing Lester to the traditional meal for the occasion and the father is a baker. He talked about wanting his daughters to attend college and have a better life than he has had. He served foods that he had baked. So, two questions: is Eid al Ada considered a holiday? I have Muslim co-workers- do I say "happy Eid" like I would "happy Thanksgiving"? By the way, one of my Muslim co-workers is looking forward to having her whole family over for Thanksgiving because it is a U.S. holiday and she is glad to be a citizen. Works for me :)

lizbud

11-22-2010, 12:52 PM

Grace

11-22-2010, 01:03 PM

Or you can GOOGLE (http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/muslim/eid-al-adha) it.

RICHARD

11-22-2010, 01:25 PM

I don't cry about politics. I cry about getting my own airplane.
-Nancy Pelosi.

lizbud

11-23-2010, 10:49 AM

SP trash talking, again. :rolleyes:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/22/palin-wont-waste-time-on-couric/#more-136711

Grace

11-24-2010, 05:51 PM

Time to get out those books again, History for sure, perhaps some Geography?

During today's Glenn Beck radio show Sarah had to be corrected by the host on the current hostilities between the two Koreas.

CO-HOST: How would you handle a situation like the one that just developed in North Korea? [...]

PALIN: But obviously, we’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies. We’re bound to by treaty –

CO-HOST: South Korean.

PALIN: Eh, Yeah. And we’re also bound by prudence to stand with our South Korean allies, yes.

A slip of the tongue? Maybe, maybe not. But in John Heilemann & Mark Halperin's Game Change there was this telling point which suggests otherwise.

She knew nothing. She had to be taken through World War I, World War II, the Cold War, and Palin was not aware there was a difference between North and South Korea. She continued to insist that Iraq was behind 9/11; and when her son was being sent off to Iraq, she couldn’t describe who we were fighting.

source (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/sarah-palin-weve-got-stand-out-north-korean)

lizbud

11-24-2010, 06:29 PM

Time to get out those books again, History for sure, perhaps some Geography?

source (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/sarah-palin-weve-got-stand-out-north-korean)

Palin is a real hoot.:) She is a flashy Media Star and nothing else. She
proves it whenever she is asked an unscripted question. I doubt she will
ever hold another political office.

Puckstop31

11-25-2010, 06:36 AM

Palin is a real hoot.:) She is a flashy Media Star and nothing else. She
proves it whenever she is asked an unscripted question. I doubt she will
ever hold another political office.

You could say the exact same thing about a few other people who ARE currently holding office. :) The unscripted question thing in particular.

But, we actually agree! :eek: Not only do I think Mrs. Palin will never hold a political office again, I PRAY that she doesn't. Beacuse just as divisive and utterly incompetent as our current President is, so shall she be.... Only the 100% opposite direction.

RICHARD

11-26-2010, 02:47 PM

Beacuse just as divisive and utterly incompetent as our current President is, so shall she be.... Only the 100% opposite direction.

Incompetent?

Nah.....

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/obama-suffers-basketball-injury-gets-12-stitches/19734482?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7C2%7Clink4%7C28043

blue

11-26-2010, 05:25 PM

You could say the exact same thing about a few other people who ARE currently holding office. :) The unscripted question thing in particular.

Like the POTUS and his "Muslim faith".

lizbud

11-26-2010, 05:34 PM

blue

11-26-2010, 05:44 PM

Aren't you glad the Republicans won so many seats in Congress in the
last election. They hate business as usual and those awful "earmarks". They
want to change that nasty practice.:rolleyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40344219/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

Why do you hate Native Americans?

The $200 million in Kyl's measure would be used to construct and maintain a drinking water project on the Fort Apache Indian Reservation, including a dam, reservoir, treatment plant and delivery pipelines.

lizbud

11-27-2010, 09:19 AM

Why do you hate Native Americans?

I'm all for fair treatment of Native Americans and reparations for all that
has been taken from them, but a political party cannot condemn "earmarks"
as corrupt and then turn around and use them themselves. Me thinks they
speak with forked tongue.:)

RICHARD

11-27-2010, 12:51 PM

blue

11-27-2010, 05:32 PM

I'm all for fair treatment of Native Americans and reparations for all that
has been taken from them, but a political party cannot condemn "earmarks"
as corrupt and then turn around and use them themselves. Me thinks they
speak with forked tongue.:)

I dont see Jon Kyl's name on the list of signers. (http://earmarkpledge.com/signers.php) Me thinks you group all with some with your forked tongue.

So I again ask, why do you hate Native Americans?

lizbud

11-27-2010, 06:39 PM

I dont see Jon Kyl's name on the list of signers. (http://earmarkpledge.com/signers.php) Me thinks you group all with some with your forked tongue.

So I again ask, why do you hate Native Americans?

Isn't the Pledge a Tea Party idea? Maybe he isn't a member. Kyl was
an avid supporter of a earmark ban as were other members of the Republican
Party.He made his position very clear in his press release on the subject.

http://kyl.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=328684

blue

11-27-2010, 07:03 PM

He didnt sign the pledge, so he is no better then your socialist heroes when they say one thing yet mean another. He is as adept at twospeak as your Democratic Party leaders and your Messiah Obama.

momoffuzzyfaces

11-28-2010, 12:39 PM

I have Native American ancestors from the Sioux and Cherokee tribes.
We want our land back or rent paid with interest for all the years it's been taken from us. :p ;) :love:

RICHARD

11-29-2010, 08:01 PM

Here are some thoughts on the latest 'bomber' in our midst.

Why is known as the Christmas Tree Bomber?:confused:

The only one I know who has 'bombed' with a Christmas tree was Charlie Brown....:rolleyes:

Why does the Muslim religion have such a problem with drawing the Prophet Mohammed yet, some approve of an idiot named Mohamud Mohamud trying to kill innocent people?

lizbud

11-30-2010, 12:27 PM

Funny yet true.:)

http://c0389161.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/dyn/str_strip/344945.full.gif

Cataholic

11-30-2010, 12:38 PM

Why does the Muslim religion have such a problem with drawing the Prophet Mohammed yet, some approve of an idiot named Mohamud Mohamud trying to kill innocent people?

I am no expert on the Muslim religion, but feel pretty comfortable saying there is no link between the former and the latter outlined above.

RICHARD

11-30-2010, 03:13 PM

I am no expert on the Muslim religion, but feel pretty comfortable saying there is no link between the former and the latter outlined above.

I am being facetious.;)

But, I was sorry to see the mosque this bozo worshiped at, get firebombed.

----------

I just heard that the former mayor of the town had opted out of having the Feds/TTF work with them because he was afraid of having people 'profiled'.

The current mayor was on the city council and he went along with THAT bozo.

----------------

Speaking of terrorists/bozos/AHs?

I have to laugh at all the people who believe the Wikileaks idiot has the right to disburse documents stolen from the governments.

Everyone praises this moron for STEALING info...
But, the same morons that are praising this action are the same people that would be raising holy heck and asking heaven to drop from the skies if it was THEIR SSNs, Credit Card #s and personal info that was stolen and spread across the planet.

I love that.

Again, It's O.K. until someone effs with us personally.:confused::eek::(

Puckstop31

12-01-2010, 07:16 AM

RICHARD

12-07-2010, 02:44 PM

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20101130_Family__New_Jersey_man_serving_7_years_fo r_guns_he_owned_legally.html

Hooray for gun control!!! Kept this hard core criminal off the street for SEVEN years!

What a cockup.

---------------

I want to qualify this next statement by saying I am not a Barack O fan.

I hope someone kicks Bill Maher's arse one day.

I thought his calling BO a wussy and wimp show just how ruthless and plain stupid most of the TV pundits/celebutards/new folk are.

A few years ago BM was a BO fan.....no questions asked-when he goes against or compromises THEIR beliefs, he's any name that they think to call him.

what an effing moron.

Grace

12-08-2010, 01:59 PM

The Afghan Parliament in 2009 passed a law, signed by President Hamid Karzai, which obligates wives to submit to the sexual demands of their husbands and to obtain spousal consent to travel outside the home.

Source: American Empire Before the Fall by Bruce Fein, page 164

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS is what our troops are fighting and dying for?

RICHARD

12-08-2010, 03:23 PM

The Afghan Parliament in 2009 passed a law, signed by President Hamid Karzai, which obligates wives to submit to the sexual demands of their husbands and to obtain spousal consent to travel outside the home.

Eff Karman Harzeyed.

His day will come and I will be one of the first to drink beer, look at scantily clad women and think impure thoughts when someone punches his crooked ticket.

---------

I am still waiting for the blood for oil thing to come to pass for our involvement in Iraq.:(:o:eek:

LOL,

Harmid Carside, Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters should all be inducted into the Politician Hall of Fame on the same ballot.

;)

momoffuzzyfaces

12-09-2010, 03:04 PM

Lord have mercy how do we get rid of the three year olds running congress and get some people who will at least act grown up?

Nancy P and her bunch are all throwing a major hissy fit because the pres tried to make a compromise and get the tax cuts to hold and unemployment passed. I wish I could slap some sense in all of them. No wonder our country is such a mess. Rangle just used the F word relating to the pres. :eek::eek:

Puckstop31

12-09-2010, 06:56 PM

I :love: Keith Olbermann.

http://bigjournalism.com/pjsalvatore/2010/12/09/olbermann-obama-is-god-damned-wrong/

Grab the popcorn and watch the left eat itself....over raising taxes on the people who create REAL jobs of all things. Truth is stranger than fiction.

Gee... Who saw this coming? ;)

lizbud

12-10-2010, 09:02 AM

...over raising taxes on the people who create REAL jobs of all things.

The super rich have been getting a big break for the last 8 years now
and how many jobs have they created so far through the largesse of the
middle & lower class taxpayer? Trickle down economics is a myth.

wombat2u2004

12-10-2010, 09:36 AM

Source: American Empire Before the Fall by Bruce Fein, page 164

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS is what our troops are fighting and dying for?

Yeah........I thought the US was against slavery.:eek::eek:

wombat2u2004

12-10-2010, 09:41 AM

The super rich have been getting a big break for the last 8 years now
and how many jobs have they created so far through the largesse of the
middle & lower class taxpayer? Trickle down economics is a myth.

The rich should be giving more back to those who enrich them, by paying a higher percentage of tax on their earnings.......after all...a loaf of bread costs the same whether you are rich or poor.

RICHARD

12-10-2010, 12:49 PM

Puckstop31

12-10-2010, 02:54 PM

The super rich have been getting a big break for the last 8 years now
and how many jobs have they created so far through the largesse of the
middle & lower class taxpayer? Trickle down economics is a myth.

Do a little homework dear.... Find out how many jobs were created after Bush signed the current tax rates into law. What was the unemployment rate in 2006? Hmmmmm......

THEN look at what happened after the Democrats gained control of the purse. (Congress.....)

Tell me what you find. :)

I will give you one thing though.... Cutting tax rates, but not spending, is insane. Thus what we have now. So I am not really defending Bush here.... FYI. Basically, the people know how to spend our money better than .gov.

Puckstop31

12-10-2010, 02:58 PM

The rich should be giving more back to those who enrich them, by paying a higher percentage of tax on their earnings.......after all...a loaf of bread costs the same whether you are rich or poor.

Hooray for class warfare!!!!!

You say "give back" like taxes are a choice.

So, I should "give back" to my employees because their labor enriches me? Isn't that what their salary, health care plan, bonus, expense checks, etc is???

Tell me, where does it end? Stop the whining about being "poor". Instead, use the freedom you have and go get it. Or not. No big deal, really.

Or, in other words.... Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

Puckstop31

12-10-2010, 03:01 PM

Trickle down economics is a myth.

History, in a huge way, disagrees with you. If "bottom up", or Kenesyian economics worked.... What gives? Bush did it.... Obama did it.... Look where we are.

I hope you bring up the mortgage crisis as an example of your point. :)

wombat2u2004

12-10-2010, 06:12 PM

Please don't talk about me in that way....The Rich....:rolleyes:

Sorry mate. I guess I let loose after reading that email you sent to me about the US Dollar dropping. The way those dollar notes are sucked up by those rich AH's. I feel passionate about such things, and would like to take that dollar bill right back and keep it forever. :p:):p

RICHARD

12-10-2010, 06:16 PM

Sorry mate. I guess I let loose after reading that email you sent to me about the US Dollar dropping. The way those dollar notes are sucked up by those rich AH's. I feel passionate about such things, and would like to take that dollar bill right back and keep it forever. :p:):p

Pay attention please.

It was a hundred dollar note.;):D

wombat2u2004

12-10-2010, 06:37 PM

Hooray for class warfare!!!!!

You say "give back" like taxes are a choice.

So, I should "give back" to my employees because their labor enriches me? Isn't that what their salary, health care plan, bonus, expense checks, etc is???

Tell me, where does it end? Stop the whining about being "poor". Instead, use the freedom you have and go get it. Or not. No big deal, really.

Or, in other words.... Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

But I have used the freedom I have to go get it. And I have paid my employees fairly because they have enriched me. And I have paid my taxes with no complaints because I know that the taxes I pay will go to build my country and provide for those who never had the opportunities that I have had.
Why would I want to make more money than I could spend in 3 lifetimes like some people do ??? There is plenty here for us all. No big deal, really.

wombat2u2004

12-10-2010, 06:40 PM

Pay attention please.

It was a hundred dollar note.;):D

It was ???? Then we'd better give it to Puck.
He'll distribute it equitably.
2% for the masses.
98% profit.

Puckstop31

12-10-2010, 07:54 PM

But I have used the freedom I have to go get it. And I have paid my employees fairly because they have enriched me. And I have paid my taxes with no complaints because I know that the taxes I pay will go to build my country and provide for those who never had the opportunities that I have had.
Why would I want to make more money than I could spend in 3 lifetimes like some people do ??? There is plenty here for us all. No big deal, really.

Wow. Wom..... I never knew you were so clairvoyant. Neat.

You know what we pay our staff. You know the bonus we give. My whole business is about our people. Our people rock. They are the reason why we shattered our revenue goal this year. Lets just say they really enjoyed the Christmas party. So, you see I am more than willing to "share the wealth" as you seem to be getting at. But on my terms, not some loser politicans. See, capitalism rewards hard work. Welfare (taxes) rewards sloth.

You and i will never see eye to eye. But do not for a second ever assume i do not take care of the people who share my success.

Its the difference between belief in the success of the individual benefitting society (me) more than using class warfare (taxes. A position you seem to support) to take money i earned and give it to those who did not.

Do not take his to seem as i am cold or motivated merely by profit. Your next responce is a sophmoric example. Its the difference between giving a fish and teaching HOW to fish. Freedom does not mean " a chicken in every pot. ".

wombat2u2004

12-10-2010, 08:02 PM

Wow. Wom..... I never knew you were so clairvoyant. Neat.

You know what we pay our staff. You know the bonus we give. My whole business is about our people. Our people rock. They are the reason why we shattered our revenue goal this year. Lets just say they really enjoyed the Christmas party. So, you see I am more than willing to "share the wealth" as you seem to be getting at. But on my terms, not some loser politicans. See, capitalism rewards hard work. Welfare (taxes) rewards sloth.

You and i will never see eye to eye. But do not for a second ever assume i do not take care of the people who share my success.

Its the difference between belief in the success of the individual benefitting society (me) more than using class warfare (taxes. A position you seem to support) to take money i earned and give it to those who did not.

Do not take his to seem as i am cold or motivated merely by profit. Your next responce is a sophmoric example. Its the difference between giving a fish and teaching HOW to fish. Freedom does not mean " a chicken in every pot. ".

Greed is a disease.
Maybe you should go see a doctor.

Puckstop31

12-10-2010, 08:39 PM

blue

12-10-2010, 10:17 PM

Trickle down economics is a myth.

It seems trickle up poverty is becoming very real.

blue

12-11-2010, 01:00 AM

Source: American Empire Before the Fall by Bruce Fein, page 164

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS is what our troops are fighting and dying for?

This is why we shouldnt be PC, or worry about local cultures while waging war.

wombat2u2004

12-11-2010, 09:04 AM

Thanks for reading my post wom. Let go of your baseless hate for me a sec and read what i posted.

Did you miss the part about how well we share our success with our team?

Or are you implying my lack of support for welfare is motivated by greed?

Awwwww....that's ok Pucky. I do read your posts for a laugh sometimes.
Not very often tho, as I do find everyone else I know to be more interesting than you.
So tell me, if you are so successful with team management blah blah blah, then why do you whinge all of the time ???

Puckstop31

12-11-2010, 09:31 AM

Awwwww....that's ok Pucky. I do read your posts for a laugh sometimes.
Not very often tho, as I do find everyone else I know to be more interesting than you.
So tell me, if you are so successful with team management blah blah blah, then why do you whinge all of the time ???

Why can't "progressives" ever answer a question?

Anyway, its not 'whining'. I do find it interesting that when YOU complain about the 'rich' getting richer, its not whining. But when I talk about wanting to preserve the ability to keep as much of what I EARN (and thus distribute it as I see fit.... It is MY money afterall.) I am 'whining'?

Bury your head in the socialist nirvana idea all you want. History is on Liberty's side. Its NOT selfish for an individual to keep what they earn. Because then that individual spends it and thus other individuals benefit. Or, we can try it your way. Never let anyone fail. Print all the 'money' we need to ensure that everybody 'has a chance'. Then, the bills come due and no one wants your fake money any more.

Like I said before.... I believe in the power of individual liberty. The freedom of the individual to chase their happiness. You seem to value the 'liberty' of the collective. Which is not really liberty at all.... Especially when what you want is not congruent with the current 'group think'.

lizbud

12-11-2010, 04:27 PM

Maybe now he'll accept the fact that he lost the election. It's over Joe,
go home.:rolleyes:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=12370922

blue

12-11-2010, 05:01 PM

Maybe now he'll accept the fact that he lost the election. It's over Joe,
go home.:rolleyes:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=12370922

And you care why?

With the amount of shenanigans that has gone on with this election the lawsuit should move on to a higher court. Yes it looks like Lisa won, but it should be won fairly. We are supposed to have free and fair elections, and what Lisa pulled was not free or fair. If it stands as it is we will never have another free or fair election in this state.

I'll ask liz another question, is this how you want elections run?

lizbud

12-11-2010, 05:58 PM

And you care why?

With the amount of shenanigans that has gone on with this election the lawsuit should move on to a higher court. Yes it looks like Lisa won, but it should be won fairly. We are supposed to have free and fair elections, and what Lisa pulled was not free or fair. If it stands as it is we will never have another free or fair election in this state.

I'll ask liz another question, is this how you want elections run?

I care because I am a citizen of the USA, but I only know what I've read
about this election of Alaska's Senator. I heard Miller had a lot of complaints
that some voters misspelled Lisa M.'s last name. Big deal.

As you are right were the action was, why don't you fill me in on what
you know happened. I'm serious, what shenanigans?

blue

12-11-2010, 06:13 PM

I care because I am a citizen of the USA, but I only know what I've read
about this election of Alaska's Senator.

So you are sticking your nose in business that doesn't concern you? What should bother you is the improprieties that have happened here could happen there and that should bother you. Im guessing it doesn't bother you because Miller is a conservative and Lisa is now beholden to private interests that reflect your ideology.

I heard Miller had a lot of complaints
that some voters misspelled Lisa M.'s last name. Big deal.

The big deal is that if the name is misspelled the vote is invalid. That is the way the law is written, and that was the intent of the law by those who wrote and enacted it.

As you are right where the action is, why don't you fill me in on what
you know happened. I'm serious, what shenanigans?

The law was broken during the counting of write in ballots, what more do you need? To answer my own question, you need a whole lot more because you dont see breaking the law as a "Big Deal". There are also allegations of electioneering and voter fraud that need to be investigated to there conclusions.

Im comfortable that Lisa Murkowski won the election. It just needs to be done and certified legally and as it sits now it wont be and Im not comfortable with that.

lizbud

12-11-2010, 06:33 PM

So you are sticking your nose in business that doesn't concern you?

I was so hoping for a honest, dispassionate dialogue here. Oh well, I tried.
Maybe another time, Good night Blue.

blue

12-11-2010, 06:42 PM

I was so hoping for a honest, dispassionate dialogue here. Oh well, I tried.
Maybe another time, Good night Blue.

I answered your questions and you get butthurt, exactly what I expected from you. TTFNA.

Grace

12-11-2010, 10:20 PM

It takes forethought and serious intent to elect a United States Senator with a write in vote.

blue

12-11-2010, 10:33 PM

It takes forethought and serious intent to elect a United States Senator with a write in vote.

Which is why the law was written the way it was. To make it difficult to run a write in campaign. That is the law Joe Miller is trying to have enforced. The same law Lisa Murkowski is trying to circumvent to retain Alaska's seat as our senator. By "our" I obviously mean Alaskans and not you, me, and Liz.

Thank you for seeing that what Lisa Murkowski and the left wing hit machine is trying to do is illegal.

I will say again that Lisa Murkowski won the election, but it needs to be certified according to the local election laws. Not by what the left is trying to do, if they succeed we will never have another free and fair election in this state and that should concern all of you.

Grace

12-11-2010, 10:37 PM

Thank you for seeing that what Lisa Murkowski and the left wing hit machine is trying to do is illegal.

That is not what I said.

blue

12-11-2010, 10:44 PM

So you are OK with illegal electoral activities. Electioneering and voter fraud as long as is meets your ideals. Gotcha.

I bet you and Liz would be screaming hell fire if the election went the other way, even though Murkowski doesnt represent either of you.

I even voted for Lisa Murkowski before. Can anybody else here legally say that?

Grace

12-11-2010, 11:00 PM

So you are OK with illegal electoral activities. Electioneering and voter fraud as long as is meets your ideals. Gotcha.

No.

I bet you and Liz would be screaming hell fire if the election went the other way, even though Murkowski doesnt represent either of you.

I don't scream, no matter how an election turns out. It's not my style.

I even voted for Lisa Murkowski before. Can anybody else here legally say that?

Not me, but maybe someone else who lives in Alaska?

Please stop putting words in my mouth. Stop assuming you know what I am thinking.

Grace

12-11-2010, 11:03 PM

From the DoD -

Air Force selects potential base for Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 Training Unit

WASHINGTON – The Air Force announced today Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho, as its preferred alternative to potentially host a Royal Saudi Air Force F-15SA maintenance and flying training unit in the United States.

Secretary of the Air Force Michael Donley and Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz validated Mountain Home AFB as the most suitable location for the proposed contingent of 12 F-15SA aircraft after a request by the Saudis to locate the potential mission at the base.

“Saudi Arabia is a valuable long-term U.S. partner in the Gulf. Facilitating the modernization of Royal Saudi Air Force aircraft, as well as providing enhanced aircrew and maintenance training, would build partner capacity and contribute to stability in the region,” said Heidi Grant, deputy under secretary of the Air Force for international affairs. “Our thorough analysis has led us to select Mountain Home AFB as the preferred alternative to potentially host our Saudi partners and to build both their capacity and interoperability with the U.S. Air Force.”

Air Force officials determined that Mountain Home AFB is the preferred alternative for the RSAF training mission primarily due to its co-location with F-15E units, its suitable weather and desert environment, and its availability of airspace and infrastructure to support an F-15SA training squadron. The initial commitment proposed by the RSAF is a five-year presence at the base from 2014 through 2019. A commitment beyond this five-year period is possible.

Potential basing is contingent upon an environmental impact analysis process as required by the National Environmental Policy Act, and officials are discussing this potential basing decision with the local community, including the Shoshone-Paiute Tribes.

The proposed training squadron would receive its first four aircraft in early to mid-2014, with the remaining eight aircraft delivered by the end of 2014. The aircraft would facilitate primary aircrew and flight instructor training as well as maintenance training.

The squadron would eventually grow to an estimated 150 to 250 RSAF personnel, including approximately 50 aircrew and 100 to 200 maintenance personnel. The number of unaccompanied versus accompanied personnel and permanent party versus temporary students has yet to be determined.

The U.S. Air Force will conduct an initial site survey in December and initiate an environmental impact analysis process in early 2011, which will provide opportunities for public comment, in preparation for the possible basing arrangement.

blue

12-11-2010, 11:10 PM

No.

That is BS and you know it.

I don't scream, no matter how an election turns out. It's not my style.

Fair enough. You lay in wait and jump on anything that may enforce your stance.

Not me, but maybe someone else who lives in Alaska?

I am also waiting for them to speak up. You and Liz dont speak for us.

blue

12-11-2010, 11:32 PM

Please stop putting words in my mouth. Stop assuming you know what I am thinking.

I assume nothing. I go by your posts. I have never put words in your mouth, insert dirty joke here.

wombat2u2004

12-12-2010, 04:03 AM

It is MY money afterall.

No it ain't, what is left after paying your dues to society is yours. And not a penny more.
Live with it old fella, because all of your whinging and whining ain't gonna make any difference.
You will pay your share, whether you like it or not, just like everyone else does.

wombat2u2004

12-12-2010, 04:35 AM

The big deal is that if the name is misspelled the vote is invalid. That is the way the law is written, and that was the intent of the law by those who wrote and enacted it.
The law was broken during the counting of write in ballots, what more do you need?
Im comfortable that Lisa Murkowski won the election. It just needs to be done and certified legally and as it sits now it wont be and Im not comfortable with that.

I'm a little confuzzed here blue.
I read the article that Liz posted, and it clearly states that the judge relied on Caselaw in regards to misspelled names on write in votes.
One can assume that precedent has now varied a probably outdated State Law.
Part The Article..........
"Miller's attorneys had asked Carey to strictly enforce a state law calling for write-in ballots to have the oval filled in, and either the candidate's last name or the name as it appears on the declaration of candidacy written in.

Miller argued the state shouldn't have used discretion in determining voter intent when tallying ballots for Murkowski. The state relied on case law in doing so and allowed for ballots with misspellings to be counted toward Murkowski's total."

So what is illegal about that ????
INTENT should be taken into account, not spelling errors.
Good God !!!! Everyone is entitled to vote for who they want, whether they can write properly or not. Thank goodness someone has woken up to this in the past, and a bit of judicial activism has overturned an obviously very stoopid law.

Puckstop31

12-12-2010, 07:02 AM

No it ain't, what is left after paying your dues to society is yours. And not a penny more.
Live with it old fella, because all of your whinging and whining ain't gonna make any difference.
You will pay your share, whether you like it or not, just like everyone else does.

WOW.

Show of hands class.... Who agrees?

---

But, I DO pay my taxes Wom. A LOT of them. How much is, exactly, my "dues to society"?

And the threat... LOL. ROFL. I am SOOOOOO glad that is your idea of "freedom".

---

We could get into WHY I don't like how my government spends some of the money they take from us, but somehow I don't think ole' Wom is up for any kind of honest discussion. Lest he send the armed goons to my house.

:rolleyes:

Best of luck for a long and healthy life Wom.

wombat2u2004

12-12-2010, 08:22 AM

WOW.

Show of hands class.... Who agrees?

---

But, I DO pay my taxes Wom. A LOT of them. How much is, exactly, my "dues to society"?

And the threat... LOL. ROFL. I am SOOOOOO glad that is your idea of "freedom".

---

We could get into WHY I don't like how my government spends some of the money they take from us, but somehow I don't think ole' Wom is up for any kind of honest discussion. Lest he send the armed goons to my house.

:rolleyes:

Best of luck for a long and healthy life Wom.

Ahhhhh....I'm so glad things go my way and not yours.
Yuppers.....best of luck with your efforts to change the world Pucky. :)

Puckstop31

12-12-2010, 09:02 AM

Ahhhhh....I'm so glad things go my way and not yours.

LOL. A certain famous Austrian and you would be great mates.

Yuppers.....best of luck with your efforts to change the world Pucky. :)

;)

Just make a note that you never even made a effort to talk about the substance here. All you ever give is your authortarian garbage. "My way OR ELSE." Seig Heil!

caseysmom

12-12-2010, 11:42 AM

LOL. A certain famous Austrian and you would be great mates.

;)

Just make a note that you never even made a effort to talk about the substance here. All you ever give is your authortarian garbage. "My way OR ELSE." Seig Heil!

Don't waste your time on it Brian...go spend your time with that precious little girl. Some of us figured this out long ago!

Puckstop31

12-12-2010, 01:20 PM

Don't waste your time on it Brian...go spend your time with that precious little girl. Some of us figured this out long ago!

:love:

I am. We are in Florida right now visting my parents. Its actually because of this vacation I even have the time to play here. LOL

Look for a big pic dump soon. :)

wombat2u2004

12-12-2010, 05:53 PM

Just make a note that you never even made a effort to talk about the substance here.

Note to self:
"I never made an effort to talk about the substance here"

wombat2u2004

12-12-2010, 06:15 PM

LOL. A certain famous Austrian and you would be great mates.

Yer comparing me to Adolph ???
Hahahahaha......this is getting better and better.

wombat2u2004

12-12-2010, 06:16 PM

Some of us figured this out long ago!

Yep, the whole 4 of you.

Puckstop31

12-12-2010, 07:41 PM

Yer comparing me to Adolph ???
Hahahahaha......this is getting better and better.

Well.... You are not giving me much to work with.

If this....

No it ain't, what is left after paying your dues to society is yours. And not a penny more.
Live with it old fella, because all of your whinging and whining ain't gonna make any difference.
You will pay your share, whether you like it or not, just like everyone else does.

...is not something out of Mein Kampf... Well, there is nothing else for us to discuss. If you REALLY think that the money I earn is NOT mine, (I can only assume it is 'societies' money then), well.....yeah.

----

Now, if you want to have a talk about an individuals responsibility to society and how to best take care of each other.... I'm all for it.

If you think I don't care about my fellow man and want the best for ALL of us, you are wrong. Period. The difference is you want to do it by FORCE. I want us to WANT to take care of each other, as locally as possible, first.

FORCE is NOT 'charity' my friend. Government (taxes) is FORCE. I'd rather give my money to charities that work, rather than a government that squanders it enslaving generations of people to dependance on it. That dependance is nothing short of slavery. Most of those people, who depend of "the system' you so cherish have very little chance, by design, IMO. See, i'm not 'whining' because I don't want to use what God has blessed me with via a awful, politically biased system of 'support'. I want it to go DIRECTLY to the people who need it, regardless of a vote, a race, a party or all the other waste that is government these days.

I really hope for an honest answer Wom.

Bonny

12-13-2010, 08:08 AM

Puckstop31

12-13-2010, 08:20 AM

Pucky does that mean I can collect on my Social Security next Fall?:confused: Last spring we were having a tiff over it. I promise to use it wisely & there should be a lot left in there for the next generation to spend wisely if our government keeps its grubby hands off of it. :eek:

I can't remain solvent for long.... I expect to get about, $0.00 out of SS. Our society is aging, rapidly. Young people are having less children. Many of the people producing the next generation are already dependant on social welfare programs.... Thus do not contribute to the till. HOW does SS stay solvent the way it is going now?

Yes, it feels good to have a program like SS. Were it run honestly and not used as a political tool it could be in good shape. But, honestly, other than making the SS tax CRIPPLING to the young people (who produce, rather than take) of this country (your posterity) how does SS stay solvent?

Who is going to blink? Are the people drawing SS going to take less? Take it later in life? Or is AARP going to win and coax CONgress into taking more from me and my peers? (not to mention gain millions of new people it can sell Medicare supplemental insurance too.... Hooray for Obama Care!) If that happens.... What is my future like? What is my daughters future like?

It's a poop sandwich for sure.... I've said it before, to make things right.... Its going to hurt a little.

Bonny

12-13-2010, 03:57 PM

As far as S.S. in the future maybe it won't be there & I was told as a child by my parents they would not be collecting S.S. & didn't (dad had railroad retirement instead) but my uncles & aunts who also said they wouldn't collect S.S. because there wouldn't be any left did collect it. I was taught in school back in the 1960's that we should not depend on S.S. (because there wouldn"t be any left for us anyhow)alone but put our eggs in other baskets. Even with the Medicare Plan, how long is that going to last? Even though you pay out of your employement check, in the end you have the last say because someone else is in control. It has always been that way & always will be. There is nothing like Medicare & lets say a private insurance plan to boot actually dictating what they are going to pay & not pay & how you are going to be treated when you are deathly ill. That just scares the heck out of me. They have control over what is going to happen to you. :eek:

Have any suggestions how to change it? I think it is going to hurt not a little but a lot in the future.

wombat2u2004

12-13-2010, 06:16 PM

wombat2u2004

12-13-2010, 06:19 PM

Now, if you want to have a talk about an individuals responsibility to society and how to best take care of each other.... I'm all for it.

Suggestions ????

Puckstop31

12-13-2010, 08:18 PM

Have any suggestions how to change it? I think it is going to hurt not a little but a lot in the future.

Phase it out over time. 'Guarantees' from the FEDERAL government is not how America is supposed to work.

OR, make participation in it optional. I'd opt out in a heartbeat if I could. Then, I'd give at least half of what I used to pay to SS to two AMAZING, private charities that WORK. ALL with ZERO public dollars.

As for care of our elders... Even if I pre-decease my parents, they will never spend ONE day in a retirement home or dependant on government for their care. I love and respect them too much to not do everything I can for them. As it should be, IMO.

Puckstop31

12-13-2010, 08:28 PM

Suggestions ????

Private charities for starters. Private charities with STANDARDS. Stop making it beneficial for unwed mothers to have MORE children. Make it beneficial to live in a nuclear family. Not necessarily married, or even straight.... But a mother and a father figure. I know a lot of single mothers and it is HARD. Raising my daughter I see how important the different things my wife and I bring to the table are. That also makes me realise just how tough it is for single moms. SO please do not think I am sour on single parent homes. I just hope for dual parent homes as much as possible. It matters.

I know private charities work better than anything government could ever do. I KNOW it. I see it. We (my evil, profit making company) donates our valuable time, resources and material to several awesome private charities. One of them being an abused womens shelter. But, they have STANDARDS. If they burn a drug test, they are OUT. The kids go to a pre-screened, PRIVATELY funded foster family and the parent who broke the rules is on their own.

Harsh? Perhaps. Fair? You bet.

HARD time limits on public welfare. Make public welfare recipients WORK for it. I am tired of driving by the public housing units in my town and seeing 22inch wheels on the Mercedes, being driven by people witih cigarettes and beer.

I can add more, but it's time for the nightly Scrabble game. LOL

G'Night. :)

Grace

12-13-2010, 08:31 PM

they will never spend ONE day in a retirement home

I'm not getting into this discussion, but did have a question about this one phrase.

Do you mean Nursing Home? When I think of retirement home, I think of the many retirement communities around here, full of vibrant, active people. I don't look at them as places to avoid.

Nursing homes, on the other hand, can be good or bad. My mom was in one in Rhode Island before she died, and it was a great place. But I have seen the other kind.

Puckstop31

12-13-2010, 08:39 PM

I'm not getting into this discussion, but did have a question about this one phrase.

Do you mean Nursing Home? When I think of retirement home, I think of the many retirement communities around here, full of vibrant, active people. I don't look at them as places to avoid.

Nursing homes, on the other hand, can be good or bad. My mom was in one in Rhode Island before she died, and it was a great place. But I have seen the other kind.

Correct. I have seen some AWFUL places. Plus, I promised my parents that I would take care of them. They did sacrifice a lot to help get me where I am. :)

I am sure there are good retirement facilities. My parents asked to not ever be placed in one and I have already secured, as best as possible these days, that they never will be. My Dad suffers from non-Hodgkins Lymphoma as a result of Agent Orange exposure in Vietnam.... And my Mom puts up with him. :) So, its the least I can do for them.

Thank you Grace, for making this point known.

Grace

12-13-2010, 08:45 PM

sparks19

12-13-2010, 09:54 PM

[QUOTE=Bonny;2319766]As far as S.S. in the future maybe it won't be there. QUOTE]

Don't worry Fraulein Von Bonny, the rich will provide you with bread crusts and water, and other necessities for your old age. ;)
Auf Wiedersehen,
Wombatz Von Adolph.

Rich? YOu think we are RICH?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA that's funny

I suppose we are rich... just not in the way you think we are. We don't have a large home... we are currently busting out of the humble house we currently have. but it's our home and we love it (even with all the stuff that seems to be breaking lately). We don't have unlimited funds to do whatever we please. But we have love and family and laughter. We are rich in life but not in the bank. We live comfortably... and sometimes we struggle between paychecks.

To think that we are "rich snobs who don't want to help anyone" because we don't support government programs that don't actually HELP anyone get back on their feet is laughable at best.

I actually think welfare and such programs have ruined the sense of community and reaching out to them for help. there was a time where everyone knew their neighbors and if a neighbor or friend was in need people would step up and help in any way they could. Now it seems most people don't even KNOW their neighbors and if someone needs help... well isn't that what welfare is for? they are taking such a large chunk from people by force that it seems to be starting the trend of "well it's not MY problem... the government will deal with it" and that is a sad state of affairs.

Puckstop31

12-13-2010, 10:28 PM

The retirement places around here - the residents are not placed in them - they choose to live there.

For instance, my cousin, Alan, lives in Colorado. He and his wife recently moved into a retirement community where there are varying degrees of care available. Currently, they live independently, but his wife is in the early stages of Alzheimers, and, at some point, will need more care than Alan can handle alone - he is almost 84.

That's the kind of retirement community I'm thinking of.

If the people choose to live in one, by all means, make it so. My parents have made their choices clear. That is not to disparage (correct word useage Mom? LOL <inside joke>) people who choose to live in one.

More or less, I want my Mom and Dad around us, physically close that is, for as long as is possible, and they agree. Hannah LOVES them both. We are staying with them for the week as we visit. Mom and Dad both went to work this morning after being around for the weekend. Hannah and I came out around 7:30. Hannah RUNS out.... Only to droop her shoulders, look at me and say, "wher'd evweebody go?" :D I want my Mom and Dad to have as many opportunites like that as possible.

sparks19

12-13-2010, 10:40 PM

The retirement places around here - the residents are not placed in them - they choose to live there.

For instance, my cousin, Alan, lives in Colorado. He and his wife recently moved into a retirement community where there are varying degrees of care available. Currently, they live independently, but his wife is in the early stages of Alzheimers, and, at some point, will need more care than Alan can handle alone - he is almost 84.

That's the kind of retirement community I'm thinking of.

yeah I think it goes both ways. My great grandmother could not WAIT to live in the assisted living facility lol. she was in the "independant living" section. they only came to her if she needed them otherwise she was on her own and she thought that was the greatest thing ever. "If I don't want to cook... I don't have to. isn't that amazing?" LOL

then there are those who don't get to choose for themselves and are just "dumped" there by their family members. but to me that is a nursing home and not a retirement home as you stated earlier.

Grace

12-13-2010, 10:52 PM

If the people choose to live in one, by all means, make it so. My parents have made their choices clear. That is not to disparage (correct word useage Mom? LOL <inside joke>) people who choose to live in one.

More or less, I want my Mom and Dad around us, physically close that is, for as long as is possible, and they agree. Hannah LOVES them both. We are staying with them for the week as we visit. Mom and Dad both went to work this morning after being around for the weekend. Hannah and I came out around 7:30. Hannah RUNS out.... Only to droop her shoulders, look at me and say, "wher'd evweebody go?" :D I want my Mom and Dad to have as many opportunites like that as possible.

Your parents could live in the same town as you do - if this is the type of place they would like, and if they would want to move North and deal with snow and ice :) Heck, I'm older than your parents, still living in our paid-for, no mortgage house, dealing with cold and ice and snow. My choice :)

yeah I think it goes both ways. My great grandmother could not WAIT to live in the assisted living facility lol. she was in the "independant living" section. they only came to her if she needed them otherwise she was on her own and she thought that was the greatest thing ever. "If I don't want to cook... I don't have to. isn't that amazing?" LOL

then there are those who don't get to choose for themselves and are just "dumped" there by their family members. but to me that is a nursing home and not a retirement home as you stated earlier.

You got it exactly right on, Tanya. Your great grandmother did what she wanted and when she wanted :love:

Puckstop31

12-13-2010, 11:13 PM

Your parents could live in the same town as you do - if this is the type of place they would like, and if they would want to move North and deal with snow and ice :) Heck, I'm older than your parents, still living in our paid-for, no mortgage house, dealing with cold and ice and snow. My choice :)

That is my Moms plan. Chances are she will live longer than Dad.

But yes... YOUR CHOICE. The debate should end there.

You got it exactly right on, Tanya. Your great grandmother did what she wanted and when she wanted :love:

Please allow me to STRESS that a retirement community is NOT a bad thing.... So long as the resident chooses to be there. Clearly, per Grace's posts, it is (or can be) a wonderful exeperience. :)

sparks19

12-13-2010, 11:19 PM

You got it exactly right on, Tanya. Your great grandmother did what she wanted and when she wanted :love:

Yeah luckily my grandmother has it the same way. what she wants and when she wants... although if you even TRIED to convince her otherwise you would PAY lol.

She is almost 90 years old and just lost her husband (my grandfather at 94 years old) the other day. She is planning to still live on her own... no retirement facility and even though all her children have offered her a place to stay with them she doesn't want it. she is independant... always has been... and wants to stay that way.

it's wonderful that she has the choice. I told my parents that our home is open if they WANT it in their old age.

if it's their choice then so be it whatever the decision.

I remember visiting great grandma in her assited living facility (I was just a kid then) and thought it was great fun to go and play Crocus (LOL that's what I called it but it was actually crokinole lol) in the community room. They aren't all bad but the ones taht are bad are REALLY bad

wombat2u2004

12-14-2010, 12:24 AM

[QUOTE=wombat2u2004;2319794]

Rich? YOu think we are RICH?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA that's funny

I suppose we are rich... just not in the way you think we are. We don't have a large home... we are currently busting out of the humble house we currently have. but it's our home and we love it (even with all the stuff that seems to be breaking lately). We don't have unlimited funds to do whatever we please. But we have love and family and laughter. We are rich in life but not in the bank. We live comfortably... and sometimes we struggle between paychecks.

To think that we are "rich snobs who don't want to help anyone" because we don't support government programs that don't actually HELP anyone get back on their feet is laughable at best.

I actually think welfare and such programs have ruined the sense of community and reaching out to them for help. there was a time where everyone knew their neighbors and if a neighbor or friend was in need people would step up and help in any way they could. Now it seems most people don't even KNOW their neighbors and if someone needs help... well isn't that what welfare is for? they are taking such a large chunk from people by force that it seems to be starting the trend of "well it's not MY problem... the government will deal with it" and that is a sad state of affairs.

Why do you assume "I THINK" you are rich ????

wombat2u2004

12-14-2010, 01:14 AM

Private charities for starters. Private charities with STANDARDS. Stop making it beneficial for unwed mothers to have MORE children. Make it beneficial to live in a nuclear family. Not necessarily married, or even straight.... But a mother and a father figure. I know a lot of single mothers and it is HARD. Raising my daughter I see how important the different things my wife and I bring to the table are. That also makes me realise just how tough it is for single moms. SO please do not think I am sour on single parent homes. I just hope for dual parent homes as much as possible. It matters.

I know private charities work better than anything government could ever do. I KNOW it. I see it. We (my evil, profit making company) donates our valuable time, resources and material to several awesome private charities. One of them being an abused womens shelter. But, they have STANDARDS. If they burn a drug test, they are OUT. The kids go to a pre-screened, PRIVATELY funded foster family and the parent who broke the rules is on their own.

Harsh? Perhaps. Fair? You bet.

HARD time limits on public welfare. Make public welfare recipients WORK for it. I am tired of driving by the public housing units in my town and seeing 22inch wheels on the Mercedes, being driven by people witih cigarettes and beer.

I can add more, but it's time for the nightly Scrabble game. LOL

G'Night. :)

Charities huh ????
So you think charities are going to feed and support the unemployed ??? The sick ?? The infirm ?? The unmarried mothers ?? The multitudes that arrive daily in your country seeking political asylum and who can't speak a word of English ???
You don't think the govt should feed them ??? Try it !!! And then see how safe you and your family will be.
The BIGGEST problem is the ever widening gap between the rich and the poor. Your BIGGEST HOPE should be to support a system that looks after you and people who can't look after themselves, because if that system breaks down, your Mein Kampf book will begin to look like a book of nursery rhymes.

Hey, I don't like the system either. But I'll always support it. Because in this day and age, it's the only system that CAN work.
Forget pure capitalism, that don't work no more. Forget pure socialism, cos that don't work either. So what the remedy is, is a mixture of those two doctrines.
The system you advocate, doesn't work. It would never work. Especially in this day and age.

Puckstop31

12-14-2010, 07:57 AM

Charities huh ????
So you think charities are going to feed and support the unemployed ??? The sick ?? The infirm ?? The unmarried mothers ?? The multitudes that arrive daily in your country seeking political asylum and who can't speak a word of English ???
You don't think the govt should feed them ??? Try it !!! And then see how safe you and your family will be.
The BIGGEST problem is the ever widening gap between the rich and the poor. Your BIGGEST HOPE should be to support a system that looks after you and people who can't look after themselves, because if that system breaks down, your Mein Kampf book will begin to look like a book of nursery rhymes.

I do not support just shutting off the switch in one day. It took generations to create this mess, it will take at least one to turn it around. And by 'switch' I mean public welfare. There is a place for public welfare I suppose, but it needs to be a scale WAY, WAY smaller than it is now.

<Here is the part where I really piss some people off.>

Taking public support needs to be HARDER. Public support needs to suck so bad that the people will do anything to get off of it. I hear stories all the time of people being offered jobs, but refuse to take them because their unemployment compensation is 'easier'. The support system needs to be something that is rare, awful and most of all TEMPORARY. NOT a generational thing....

I know it sounds mean. Its harsh. BUT, it is the BEST thing for them. The goal of public support systems should be getting people back to self sufficency as soon as possible. That is not the way it works..... Because those people on the dole, still get to vote themselves more.

Hey, I don't like the system either. But I'll always support it. Because in this day and age, it's the only system that CAN work.
Forget pure capitalism, that don't work no more. Forget pure socialism, cos that don't work either. So what the remedy is, is a mixture of those two doctrines.
The system you advocate, doesn't work. It would never work. Especially in this day and age.

Well my friend... What you are talking about is not working either. Look at Europe. Look at the US. ( I am sure Oz is just ducky. LOL ) We are BROKE. SOMETHING has to give or we are ALL screwed.

---

What IS poverty anyway? I ask because you mentioned the gap between rich and poor. I think the West defines poverty poorly. How can you be poor AND fat? Poor and 2 cars? Poor and a fridge full of beer? Poor and have 22's on your BMW? Poor and 3 cartons of smokes? Are there truly poor people in ther West? Of course. But there are way more on the system who DON'T need it. BUT, because they get to vote for more.....

I've served in some crappy places and seen what poverty really is.

---

Whatever the answer is.... It HAS to hurt. HAS to. We lived the lie of the Credit Card for way too long. It sucks. I don't like saying this. But, I want my child(ren) to have at least the same chance as me to live the kind of life we live right now. And if my dollar is worthless.....

---

Thank you for the honest reply, BTW. This is a much better way to talk. I'm sorry for the Adolph thing... You seemed to use FEAR (a threat) as the method of getting what you wanted. That is how I made the comparision. I am sorry for that.

Grace

12-14-2010, 08:04 AM

Back to Joe Miller for a moment. (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/133463-miller-taking-vote-challenge-to-alaska-supreme-court-)

Joe Miller files appeal; takes election challenge to Alaska Supreme Court
By Sean J. Miller - 12/13/10 05:22 PM ET

Republican Joe Miller is continuing his legal battle over the outcome of the Alaska Senate race.

Miller filed an appeal Monday of the lower court ruling against his lawsuit challenging how the state counted write-in ballots for Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska.).

The state Supreme Court is set to hear arguments in the case on Friday, according to The Associated Press.

Murkowski was declared the winner last month, but the state is legally barred from certifying the results thanks to an order from a federal judge.

She leads Miller by more than 10,000 votes, and even if all of the write-in ballots challenged by Miller were to be thrown out by a judge, he would still have no clear path to victory.

sparks19

12-14-2010, 10:31 AM

[QUOTE=sparks19;2319840]

Why do you assume "I THINK" you are rich ????

well considering the Von Bonny comment followed by the rich letting her have bread crusts it wasn't really a big leap for me to connect them :)

if that wasn't what you were saying then I'm sorry :)

lizbud

12-14-2010, 12:46 PM

Back to Joe Miller for a moment. (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/133463-miller-taking-vote-challenge-to-alaska-supreme-court-)

He really is making himself look rediculous going on & on about this. His
pride is undoubtably hurt big time because he was all but certain to win
(all the polls predicted it) until Lisa Murkowski supporters rampted up the
write in campaign & pulled ahead in the last months of the election.

I tend to pull for the underdog and she sure fit that description in this
contest.She was written off by her own Party, but the people she represents
spoke up loud & clear & supported her return to Congress. I like that.:)

Bonny

12-14-2010, 01:00 PM

[QUOTE=wombat2u2004;2319883]

well considering the Von Bonny comment followed by the rich letting her have bread crusts it wasn't really a big leap for me to connect them :)

if that wasn't what you were saying then I'm sorry :)

Wom was joking with me. I don't mind.

Your right about those credit cards people buy stuff but don't think about how they are going to pay them off & the out of this world interest charged to them if they don't pay up. Then there was the big housing boom that went bang, buying something with an interest rate out of this world once again & keeping up with the Jones up the street.

I don't like the government running my life either. Politicans make promises & don't keep them. People are suckers for their promises.

The waste in this country is unbelievable. They use to make stuff to last a long time.

The rich are getting richer & don't care about the poor. They are to busy being greedy.

I think we are all on the same page but view it differently maybe because of age, experience, education? I look at it as a learning experience how other people view life.

I would prefer to have some marmalade jam on my bread crusts & milk please.:D

momoffuzzyfaces

12-14-2010, 03:47 PM

[QUOTE=Puckstop31;2319907 I think the West defines poverty poorly. How can you be poor AND fat? Poor and 2 cars? Poor and a fridge full of beer? Poor and have 22's on your BMW? Poor and 3 cartons of smokes? Are there truly poor people in ther West? Of course. But there are way more on the system who DON'T need it. BUT, because they get to vote for more.....

I've served in some crappy places and seen what poverty really is.

---

[/QUOTE]

Actually you can be poor and fat. The poor people of the country can't afford the healthy food. They eat lots of things like macarroni that sells for a dollar a box at Walmart or Dollar General Stores. :rolleyes:

There are people who are truly poor in the US. Just find a few homeless people getting meals out of trash cans and ask them.

I am living 130% below the poverty level in our country. Now I know I'm tons better off than people eating dirt in third world countries. But I would be homeless too if my brother hadn't bought the house I now live in. My car died 4 years ago. It would cost too much to fix it and I have no money for a different one. I take the senior bus which only runs 3 days a week. That is my sole means of transportation. Try dragging groceries home on that sometime when your joints hurt so much you can hardly move.

I wouldn't have a computer either if my brother hadn't bought mine for me. He is such a blessing to me. I thank God for him every day by the way.

Congress is now trying to push a bill through that is full of Billions of dollars of ear marks but they can't give people on disability a tiny cost of living raise. Ok, I get it. They want me to hurry up and die and get out of their way. I don't plan on doing that any time soon though. I grew up raised by parents who lived through the depression. I know 101 ways to fix noodles. :love:

blue

12-14-2010, 11:39 PM

The part of Alaska Election law that is in question.

(11) A vote for a write-in candidate, other than a write-in vote for governor and lieutenant governor, shall be counted if the oval is filled in for that candidate and if the name, as it appears on the write-in declaration of candidacy, of the candidate or the last name of the candidate is written in the space provided.

According to 3 former state legislatures, who helped write and enact the law, interviewed on local radio. If the name written in on the ballot does not exactly match the name as it was written on the candidates declaration to run a write in campaign, that vote is considered invalid.

To used this election as an example. If the name on the declaration to run a write in campaign is Lisa Murkowski, and the name written in on the ballot is Murcowsky the ballot should be ruled invalid.

Another problem with this election are the allegations of voter fraud and electioneering in the Villages. Reports of dozens of ballots with Murkowski's name all written in the same handwriting from several villages. Allegations of people entering the voting booths to "aid" people in voting to ensure that Murkowski's name is spelled correctly.

It seems some think that is more important for the Underdog to win then the law be followed.

Puckstop31

12-15-2010, 08:21 AM

Actually you can be poor and fat. The poor people of the country can't afford the healthy food. They eat lots of things like macarroni that sells for a dollar a box at Walmart or Dollar General Stores. :rolleyes:

There are people who are truly poor in the US. Just find a few homeless people getting meals out of trash cans and ask them.

I am living 130% below the poverty level in our country. Now I know I'm tons better off than people eating dirt in third world countries. But I would be homeless too if my brother hadn't bought the house I now live in. My car died 4 years ago. It would cost too much to fix it and I have no money for a different one. I take the senior bus which only runs 3 days a week. That is my sole means of transportation. Try dragging groceries home on that sometime when your joints hurt so much you can hardly move.

I wouldn't have a computer either if my brother hadn't bought mine for me. He is such a blessing to me. I thank God for him every day by the way.

Congress is now trying to push a bill through that is full of Billions of dollars of ear marks but they can't give people on disability a tiny cost of living raise. Ok, I get it. They want me to hurry up and die and get out of their way. I don't plan on doing that any time soon though. I grew up raised by parents who lived through the depression. I know 101 ways to fix noodles. :love:

I am sorry to hear that you have such a tough situation. It truly breaks my heart to read this. If only the 'system' could be made to help the people who REALLY need it.

Do you go to a church? I ask because our's has a system of volunteers who spend time transporting our elderly who cannot do so for themselves.

As for the Omnibus bill.... Well, it shows you where their heart really is I guess.

momoffuzzyfaces

12-15-2010, 04:00 PM

I am sorry to hear that you have such a tough situation. It truly breaks my heart to read this. If only the 'system' could be made to help the people who REALLY need it.

Do you go to a church? I ask because our's has a system of volunteers who spend time transporting our elderly who cannot do so for themselves.

As for the Omnibus bill.... Well, it shows you where their heart really is I guess.

I don't go to church any more. I can't stand to sit on those hard pews. I stiffen up and can't walk if I do. I don't even know anyone who goes any more. :love:

wombat2u2004

12-16-2010, 07:47 AM

The part of Alaska Election law that is in question.
It seems some think that is more important for the Underdog to win then the law be followed.

It seems to me tho blue, that the law is a bit silly.
For instance, if some poor old bloke can't spell right, or can't spell at all, and puts something in there that indicates plain as sunshine his intent, then is it fair that his vote be invalid ????
Is the right to have ones vote counted only dependant on ones ability to spell correctly ???
Hey, my surname is Browne.
If I was running for office against Jones, how many votes would be cast with Brown in the box ????
Do you think it fair that I should lose that election should those voters not put the "E" at the end of my name ????
I think the judge has shown a lot of commonsense in his ruling. And it's about time that judges should rule those silly laws as inappropriate.

wombat2u2004

12-16-2010, 07:51 AM

I would prefer to have some marmalade jam on my bread crusts & milk please.:D

What ??? That's it !!!! It's the Gulag for you young lady.

wombat2u2004

12-16-2010, 08:42 AM

I do not support just shutting off the switch in one day. It took generations to create this mess, it will take at least one to turn it around. And by 'switch' I mean public welfare. There is a place for public welfare I suppose, but it needs to be a scale WAY, WAY smaller than it is now.

<Here is the part where I really piss some people off.>

Taking public support needs to be HARDER. Public support needs to suck so bad that the people will do anything to get off of it. I hear stories all the time of people being offered jobs, but refuse to take them because their unemployment compensation is 'easier'. The support system needs to be something that is rare, awful and most of all TEMPORARY. NOT a generational thing....

I know it sounds mean. Its harsh. BUT, it is the BEST thing for them. The goal of public support systems should be getting people back to self sufficency as soon as possible. That is not the way it works..... Because those people on the dole, still get to vote themselves more.

Trouble is tho, who is going to sort out who really needs public support and who doesn't ???
The aged, the disabled, the sick and infirm, the unemployable, newly arrived immigrants, the freeloaders, the fraudsters, war veterans who are completely nuts (like me) :D, umarried mothers...etc etc ??? Who will sort them out, and determine who is eligible for welfare, and how much welfare they are to receive ???
Who will draw the line ???? Maybe I should rephrase that question....Who will draw the line and have no chance of ever being re-elected ???

I think we in the western world have created a monster, that is very true.
And yes, I agree with you that we are in a real mess. But that mess has been caused by none other than people like you and I. It's called affluence, and that is very rapidly turning into effluence.
I worked as a builder. People paid me top money to build their houses. I'd buy my hinges and screws at a hardware store....guess what I bought ??
The Aussie brand for $20 a set ??? Or the Chinese set for $2.50 ??? Well, I had to be competitive and maximise my profits just like every other builder in the country. So the owner of Aussie Hinges & Screws goes out of business, the bank forecloses on his house, he and his staff are unemployed and all now receive the dole plus rental support. Go figure.
Yeah, your country is in an economic crisis, the same as Britain and many of the European nations. Australia is booming at the moment, but that will change I'm sure. If only we could all not import more than we can export, then perhaps things will change. You know what Aussies are pissed off about ??? Oil costs us $100 a barrell from Saudi Arabia, and we sell our wheat to them for $10.00 a barrell. Stoopid, isn't it ???

blue

12-16-2010, 09:12 PM

So you dont follow laws you feel are silly? Color me surprised.

The law was written to make it very difficult to run a write in campaign. If some poor bloke who cant spell, cant take the time or is to ambivalent to learn by rote how to spell the candidates name he has no one to blame but himself if his vote is ruled invalid.

In this state it is dependent on your willingness to learn to correctly spell the last name of the candidate you wish to write in.

Yes I think it is fair that you should lose an election if you cannot educate your supporters how to spell your name.

Make all the excuses you want, like you always do, to excuse people from personal responsibility.

It seems to me tho blue, that the law is a bit silly.
For instance, if some poor old bloke can't spell right, or can't spell at all, and puts something in there that indicates plain as sunshine his intent, then is it fair that his vote be invalid ????
Is the right to have ones vote counted only dependant on ones ability to spell correctly ???
Hey, my surname is Browne.
If I was running for office against Jones, how many votes would be cast with Brown in the box ????
Do you think it fair that I should lose that election should those voters not put the "E" at the end of my name ????
I think the judge has shown a lot of commonsense in his ruling. And it's about time that judges should rule those silly laws as inappropriate.

wombat2u2004

12-17-2010, 04:33 AM

So you dont follow laws you feel are silly? Color me surprised.

The law was written to make it very difficult to run a write in campaign. If some poor bloke who cant spell, cant take the time or is to ambivalent to learn by rote how to spell the candidates name he has no one to blame but himself if his vote is ruled invalid.

In this state it is dependent on your willingness to learn to correctly spell the last name of the candidate you wish to write in.

Yes I think it is fair that you should lose an election if you cannot educate your supporters how to spell your name.

Make all the excuses you want, like you always do, to excuse people from personal responsibility.

Well colour me to !!!! I always thought our blue was a champion for the underdog. So, it's underdogs who can spell...right ???? What else is required for voting by your fair law ???? Gotta be able to fell a deer at 100 yds with one shot ???
I'm sorry your boy didn't win blue, but I guess you just can't help bad luck.....eh ????
Sounds to me like he was beaten fair and square, and you can't handle that..........I guess the majority of voters don't think like you.

blue

12-17-2010, 08:54 PM

Well colour me to !!!! I always thought our blue was a champion for the underdog. So, it's underdogs who can spell...right ???? What else is required for voting by your fair law ???? Gotta be able to fell a deer at 100 yds with one shot ???
I'm sorry your boy didn't win blue, but I guess you just can't help bad luck.....eh ????
Sounds to me like he was beaten fair and square, and you can't handle that..........I guess the majority of voters don't think like you.

This isnt about championing anything other then following the law. What does it take to vote down under? A criminal record? How many lagers do you need in you before they let you in the polling booth?

He was beaten, Lisa was bought fair and square, and if you read back I accept that. If I had voted for Lisa my stance on our election laws would be the same. She won but she shouldnt be allowed to count ballots for her that are invalid by law.

wombat2u2004

12-17-2010, 09:53 PM

How many lagers do you need in you before they let you in the polling booth?

About 10. But us Aussies know how to enjoy ourselves.
Tell me blue. Why are you such an unhappy little fella ????

wombat2u2004

12-17-2010, 09:56 PM

She won but she shouldnt be allowed to count ballots for her that are invalid by law.

But the re-count WAS valid by law. The judge relied on caselaw, and that IS valid, and it is legal.
So what the hell are you talking about ?????

blue

12-17-2010, 10:13 PM

This underdog carp being thrown out by Wom and Liz. Lisa was no under dog. Lisa had nation wide donations in the millions of dollars, and those helped her buy the election. She no longer represents Alaskans. She now represents Native Corporations who raised $1.4 million dollars for her write in campaign in under a week.

Lisa sees the seat as Her's and not our seat with her representing Alaskans. She sees the seat as a gift from her father who "gave" it to her. I even voted for her the first time she had to "Earn" our seat.

This time around she whored herself out to the highest bidder and sold us out. Some Underdog.

Joe Miller was the underdog as he didnt have millions of dollars to spend. He didnt sell himself to the highest bidder to get millions to try and buy his way into office.

Before the primary Lisa said she would respect the wishes of the voters. In the end she only respects those with the deepest pockets.

In the end she won, and if she has more ethics then ego she will abide by Alaskan law. Somehow I doubt that will happen.

I can see how Lisa can get admiration from socialists and liberals, she can be bought.

blue

12-17-2010, 11:01 PM

Why are you such an unhappy little fella ????

Are you making a dig at my fight with depression? Or do you have a tiny man syndrome and resent anybody over 5'2"?

But the re-count WAS valid by law. The judge relied on caselaw, and that IS valid, and it is legal.
So what the hell are you talking about ?????

So you are 20 pints of Boddies in.

There hasnt been a recount. There isnt a Case Law. This would be the first challenge.

wombat2u2004

12-18-2010, 12:25 AM

wombat2u2004

12-18-2010, 12:44 AM

Are you making a dig at my fight with depression? Or do you have a tiny man syndrome and resent anybody over 5'2"?

I don't know if you have depression or not, so why on earth would I want to have a dig at you about that ??? Gee blue, you could have one leg and six arms for all I know, and be hopping to the pub for a half a dozen beers.
Tiny Man Syndrome ??? Where did you get that one ??? Out of the "Doctor Quinn the Eskimo Book of Pyschiatric Treatment for Sled Dogs" ????

So you are 20 pints of Boddies in.

Never knock as good Aussie beer. It's better than that yellow water you guys drink.

[B]There hasnt been a recount.

Glad to hear the defeated has stayed defeated.

There isnt a Case Law. This would be the first challenge.

Thats not the way I read it. The article said the judge relied on caselaw in his decision.

Grace

12-18-2010, 02:39 PM

By a vote of 65 - 31, DADT has been repealed.

As Senator Wyden of Oregon said - "I don't care who you love, if you love this country enough to risk your life for it, you shouldn't have to hide who you are. You ought to be able to serve."

From Senator Carl Levin of Michigan - Staff Sgt. Eric Alva, USMC, was the first ground-unit casualty of the war in Iraq. The first casualty in the war in Iraq was a gay soldier. The mine that took off his right leg didn't give a darn whether he was gay or straight. We shouldn't either.

momoffuzzyfaces

12-18-2010, 02:50 PM

Odd but in the days of yore when there was a draft, it didn't matter which way any one swung, they took everyone. (unless you had flat feet) :love:

blue

12-18-2010, 02:53 PM

Too bad for Miller.
He lost....period.

I wasnt aware that was in dispute.

Money can buy everything blue, don't you know that ???

Try buying my respect.

So you are 20 pints of Boddies in.

Never knock as good Aussie beer. It's better than that yellow water you guys drink.

Still havent figured out how the quote function works?

You are aware that Boddingtons is an English beer?

[B]There hasnt been a recount.

Glad to hear the defeated has stayed defeated.

You seem to think I am arguing that he won the election. I simply want the law upheld.

There isnt a Case Law. This would be the first challenge.

Thats not the way I read it. The article said the judge relied on caselaw in his decision.

The judge didnt rely on Alaskan case law to make his ruling.

blue

12-18-2010, 05:19 PM

By a vote of 65 - 31, DADT has been repealed.

Can we get rid of women only gyms now too?

wombat2u2004

12-18-2010, 07:07 PM

I wasnt aware that was in dispute.

Try buying my respect.

Still havent figured out how the quote function works?

You are aware that Boddingtons is an English beer?

You seem to think I am arguing that he won the election. I simply want the law upheld.

The judge didnt rely on Alaskan case law to make his ruling.

Go back to bed blue....sleep it off some.

blue

12-18-2010, 07:19 PM

Go back to bed blue....sleep it off some.

Dont be sore.

Grace

12-18-2010, 08:44 PM

Odd but in the days of yore when there was a draft, it didn't matter which way any one swung, they took everyone. (unless you had flat feet) :love:

Or a Pilonidal Cyst :D

blue

12-18-2010, 09:03 PM

Odd but in the days of yore when there was a draft, it didn't matter which way any one swung, they took everyone. (unless you had flat feet) :love:

Or a Pilonidal Cyst :D

Was that Clinton's excuse?

Grace

12-18-2010, 10:05 PM

Was that Clinton's excuse?

No. That was Rush Limbaugh with the cyst.

blue

12-18-2010, 10:08 PM

No. That was Rush Limbaugh with the cyst.

So Clinton pretended to be gay? Is that why he married someone as manly as Hillary?

Grace

12-18-2010, 10:16 PM

So Clinton pretended to be gay? Is that why he married someone as manly as Hillary?

Your comments are so stupid, I'm no longer going to dignify them with a response.

blue

12-18-2010, 10:22 PM

Your comments are so stupid, I'm no longer going to dignify them with a response.

But yet you responded. :D

You feel free to hate on those like the blowhard Limbaugh, but get butthurt if somebody insults the Clintons.

Edwina's Secretary

12-18-2010, 11:30 PM

But yet you responded. :D

You feel free to hate on those like the blowhard Limbaugh, but get butthurt if somebody insults the Clintons.

Must be lonely on the bottom... eh blue???

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

blue

12-18-2010, 11:40 PM

Must be lonely on the bottom... eh blue???

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You would know. :D

wombat2u2004

12-19-2010, 04:33 AM

Dont be sore.

Me....sore ????
Never hatchi.

Bonny

12-19-2010, 06:58 AM

Now That Is The Political Christmas Spirit Everyone :eek::cool::D

Grace

12-19-2010, 10:55 AM

Christmas in Washington -

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width/hash/eb/ff/ebffef14852d7c75312fb603f09c1cd6.jpg

lizbud

12-19-2010, 01:33 PM

Christmas in Washington -

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width/hash/eb/ff/ebffef14852d7c75312fb603f09c1cd6.jpg

Beautiful tree Grace.:)

sparks19

12-19-2010, 03:18 PM

Grace

12-19-2010, 03:47 PM

this is a totally silly and off topic question....

do you think those decorations on that tree are there permanently or do they have to redecorate it every year? I wonder how long that would take to decorate lol. that's one honking tree

I don't think that's a silly question - and most certainly not off topic.

I wonder if all those decorations are on a mesh which is dropped over the tree? Seems like I saw they did that on one of the trees right by the White House. It would save lots of time to do it that way.

I posted the picture to show Bonny that there is some Political Christmas Spirit around. One just has to look for it.

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas5/21.gif

wombat2u2004

12-20-2010, 08:00 AM

I posted the picture to show Bonny that there is some Political Christmas Spirit around. One just has to look for it.

That's right. ;)

Bonny

12-20-2010, 09:38 AM

I don't think that's a silly question - and most certainly not off topic.

I wonder if all those decorations are on a mesh which is dropped over the tree? Seems like I saw they did that on one of the trees right by the White House. It would save lots of time to do it that way.

I posted the picture to show Bonny that there is some Political Christmas Spirit around. One just has to look for it.

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas5/21.gif

Thank you Grace for the lovely lite up tree. They are actually arguing in congress over their Christmas break & important legislation as I type. I guess they don't want to work into the holidays?

I was referring to those two rascals Wom & Blue in my post above. :D

I like your string of Christmas lights to Grace. :)

sparks19

12-20-2010, 10:42 AM

I don't think that's a silly question - and most certainly not off topic.

I wonder if all those decorations are on a mesh which is dropped over the tree? Seems like I saw they did that on one of the trees right by the White House. It would save lots of time to do it that way.

I posted the picture to show Bonny that there is some Political Christmas Spirit around. One just has to look for it.

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas5/21.gif

hmmm mesh would make sense. I would imagine decorating that every year would take A LOT of time and some precision to make sure everything is in it's place.

Is it a new tree every year? or is it one that's already there or is it fake?

I have a lot of christmas tree questions LOL

Grace

12-20-2010, 11:50 AM

hmmm mesh would make sense. I would imagine decorating that every year would take A LOT of time and some precision to make sure everything is in it's place.

Is it a new tree every year? or is it one that's already there or is it fake?

I have a lot of christmas tree questions LOL

Well, I do have some answers. Do you get HGTV? They had an hour show about decorating the White House - they've been doing it every year for quite some time.

Best I can figure, the outside trees are live - the ones inside the White House are cut. In the Green Room they had a couple of trees and several window wreaths made of re-cycled newspapers and magazines. That only cost $75 - for the gilt spray. You can get the idea here -

http://img.hgtv.com/HGTV/2010/12/10/HWHC8-S10_Christmas-tree-newspaper-closeup_s4x3_lg.jpg

HERE (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expIds=17259,17291,27558,27615&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=washington+dc+christmas+trees&cp=29&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=0YkPTeGUOpLksQPguJyuCg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CGIQsAQwBg&biw=1391&bih=873) is a link to photos of D.C. trees. You can really see the mesh in some of the pictures.

If I find out anymore info, I'll post it. And for any of our resident grinches, this subject is on topic - Washington = Politics and Christmas = Religion.

sparks19

12-20-2010, 11:56 AM

Well, I do have some answers. Do you get HGTV? They had an hour show about decorating the White House - they've been doing it every year for quite some time.

Best I can figure, the outside trees are live - the ones inside the White House are cut. In the Green Room they had a couple of trees and several window wreaths made of re-cycled newspapers and magazines. That only cost $75 - for the gilt spray. You can get the idea here -

http://img.hgtv.com/HGTV/2010/12/10/HWHC8-S10_Christmas-tree-newspaper-closeup_s4x3_lg.jpg

HERE (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expIds=17259,17291,27558,27615&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=washington+dc+christmas+trees&cp=29&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=0YkPTeGUOpLksQPguJyuCg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CGIQsAQwBg&biw=1391&bih=873) is a link to photos of D.C. trees. You can really see the mesh in some of the pictures.

If I find out anymore info, I'll post it. And for any of our resident grinches, this subject is on topic - Washington = Politics and Christmas = Religion.

hmmm... that's very interesting. Thank you for the link. I always wondered how they did things on this scale. Like at Disney World... there are HUGE decorated trees everywhere and I always wondered how they decorated them or how long it took.

wombat2u2004

12-20-2010, 05:36 PM

I was referring to those two rascals Wom & Blue in my post above.

:cool:

Grace

12-21-2010, 10:22 AM

Some of you will get a kick out of this article -

Mean Girls of the Senate (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/21/john-mccain-and-lindsey-graham-the-mean-girls-of-the-us-senate/)

lizbud

12-21-2010, 11:40 AM

McCain is a sad old man. To bad his best days are long gone.:(

Grace

12-22-2010, 04:41 PM

Wonder if this message will get through . . . .

JUNEAU, Alaska – The Alaska Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a lower court decision in the disputed U.S. Senate race, saying the state correctly counted write-in votes for Sen. Lisa Murkowski. It is now up to Republican Joe Miller to decide if the election is finally over.

The court said in its ruling it found "no remaining issues raised by Miller that prevent this election from being certified."

source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/22/AR2010122204367.html)

lizbud

12-22-2010, 04:52 PM

Wonder if this message will get through . . . .

source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/22/AR2010122204367.html)

It should be over now, but some probably will carry on with the
*itching & moaning as usual.:p Heck, I didn't agree with the outcome of
Bush v Gore, but I got over it.:)

RICHARD

12-22-2010, 06:56 PM

Grace

12-22-2010, 07:01 PM

What?? You didn't like the pictures of the Washington Christmas Trees?

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas5/21.gif

lizbud

12-22-2010, 07:10 PM

Edwina's Secretary

12-22-2010, 07:26 PM

I find it highly amusing that Ms. Palin's own candidate in her own state got handed his hat...and by her nemesis!

Delicious!

RICHARD

12-22-2010, 07:53 PM

Feel free to make all the resolutions you like for the Christmas season
but I'll still make my comments whenever I feel the need to make them,
thanks.:)

Not really a resolution, Just seeing if I could barter for a little Peace on Earth/Pet Talk for a few days.

I guess I suck as a ambassador of good will.

Never mind.

RICHARD

12-22-2010, 09:59 PM

What?? You didn't like the pictures of the Washington Christmas Trees?

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas5/21.gif

LOL,

Don't make me choose between an airshow and pine trees?;)

blue

12-22-2010, 10:06 PM

Not really a resolution, Just seeing if I could barter for a little Peace on Earth/Pet Talk for a few days.

I guess I suck as a ambassador of good will.

Never mind.

Your heart is in the right place Richard. Its just this is the best Christmas liberals could have hoped for.

Lack of ethics in an election, check. Lack of respect for the law, check. Unions and special interests buying a senator, check. Its a liberal holiday trifecta.

Puckstop31

12-22-2010, 10:40 PM

I find it highly amusing that Ms. Palin's own candidate in her own state got handed his hat...and by her nemesis!

Delicious!

:cool:

I KNEW I know you.

Keep focusing on the bait... "Ms. Secretary" (hint - another clue as to who you are.)

wombat2u2004

12-23-2010, 12:16 AM

I have been watching the thread for a few weeks now.

Why don't we all take a break for the holidays and have a good time.

There will be plenty of time to be offended by politics after the New Year.

I hereby call on all parties to be forget your political affiliation until January 2, 2011.

Happy Christmas and New Year.:D

Good idea Richard........

To My Democrat Friends:

Please accept with no obligation, implied or explicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2011 but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.

To My Republican Friends:

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

wombat2u2004

12-23-2010, 12:20 AM

Keep focusing on the bait...

Going fishing Puck ?????

lizbud

12-23-2010, 09:19 AM

Going fishing Puck ?????

He is CRAZY about Sara.:love::love::love:

Gets all excited by her posts and springs out of his easy chair to hurridly
post his "love notes". Sigh....... Ain't LOVE grand.:):)

Puckstop31

12-23-2010, 10:48 AM

He is CRAZY about Sara.:love::love::love:

Gets all excited by her posts and springs out of his easy chair to hurridly
post his "love notes". Sigh....... Ain't LOVE grand.:):)

LOL

I DO miss her regularly posting here. She says what means and she means what she says, with no need to fake being nice if she does not want to be. Did it get ugly from time to time? Of course. Is that an accurate example of life? Yep.

So, depending on how one defines LOVE, you might actually be right Liz.

ETA: You guys really need to lighten up. I thought you lefties were supposed to be FUN? LOL

wombat2u2004

12-23-2010, 11:04 AM

He is CRAZY about Sara.:love::love::love:

Gets all excited by her posts and springs out of his easy chair to hurridly
post his "love notes". Sigh....... Ain't LOVE grand.:):)

Hee hee.....now that's gotta be a MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN :love::rolleyes::love::rolleyes:

lizbud

12-23-2010, 01:29 PM

Hee hee.....now that's gotta be a MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN :love::rolleyes::love::rolleyes:

No, I'm afraid it's a one way street. Poor Pucky.:( Unrequited love is
ever so sad.:(:(

Puckstop31

12-23-2010, 03:56 PM

Hee hee.....now that's gotta be a MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN :love::rolleyes::love::rolleyes:

Imagine the children! :eek:

:D

Puckstop31

12-23-2010, 04:08 PM

No, I'm afraid it's a one way street. Poor Pucky.:( Unrequited love is
ever so sad.:(:(

I'm over it now. Time, it seems to be true, does indeed heal all wounds.

But I appreciate your concern. :love:

:)

Edwina's Secretary

12-23-2010, 05:17 PM

No, I'm afraid it's a one way street. Poor Pucky.:( Unrequited love is
ever so sad.:(:(

Careful Liz...Regressives don't get nuanced humor....but here's something that IS funny...I think poor spellers SHOULD be disenfranchised! :D:D:p:D:D

Grace

12-23-2010, 05:47 PM

ETA: You guys really need to lighten up. I thought you lefties were supposed to be FUN? LOL

I find everyone seems to be having fun except one poor soul on the far right side.

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas5/21.gif

Puckstop31

12-23-2010, 09:34 PM

Careful Liz...Regressives don't get nuanced humor....but here's something that IS funny...I think poor spellers SHOULD be disenfranchised! :D:D:p:D:D

I got it... It just wasn't funny. :)

What a shame that you can't play here for real any more. All you have is this. Bummer.

blue

12-23-2010, 09:47 PM

Some people just try way to hard to be refined, the nuance then loses its funnay. Actually it just becomes sad.

ES, its good to see you participating again. Merry Christmas to you, your husband, and the kitties. I wish yall a Happy New Year as well.

wombat2u2004

12-23-2010, 10:04 PM

Imagine the children! :eek::D

They would probably be small, and have sharp little teeth, and run around in circles all day. :D

blue

12-23-2010, 10:12 PM

They would probably be small, and have sharp little teeth, and run around in circles all day. :D

Counter clockwise.

The Liberal Gene comes from the mothers side.

ETA: In cases where the father is a liberal and the mother is conservative, my observation is...

The first born son is a screaming bleeding liberal, and the second son is a logical, level headed conservative.

Puckstop31

12-23-2010, 11:07 PM

They would probably be small, and have sharp little teeth, and run around in circles all day. :D

<golf clap>

Excellent retort. Happy to be a part of it. :)

Mr. Wom, you live on the only permanently inhabited (checked my SPELLING, lest the 'Progressive' nanny state get me.) continent I have yet to visit. WHEN I go, (with my EVIL, hard earned, Capitalist dollars. :) ) please allow me to buy you a pint. I predict EPIC conversation. :)

wombat2u2004

12-24-2010, 05:10 AM

Mr. Wom, you live on the only permanently inhabited (checked my SPELLING, lest the 'Progressive' nanny state get me.) continent I have yet to visit. WHEN I go, (with my EVIL, hard earned, Capitalist dollars. :) ) please allow me to buy you a pint. I predict EPIC conversation. :)

We'll have 3 pints, then the converstion will be a bigger epic than Ben Hur. :D

Puckstop31

12-24-2010, 07:31 AM

We'll have 3 pints, then the converstion will be a bigger epic than Ben Hur. :D

3 Pints? Oy

Do black eyes feel different in Oz? I have a feeling, if we did that, i'd find out. LOL And most likely, you would not be the one to cause the wound.

Merry Christmas Wom! :D

Catty1

12-24-2010, 09:08 AM

Love it! Peace on earth, goodwill towards....:D:D:p:p

lizbud

12-24-2010, 11:37 AM

Not bad from a Political Party that some thought was "devouring itself".
Maybe now Congress can actually work together for the benefit of ALL the
people. (we can only hope);)

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/22/cnn-poll-56-percent-give-obamas-lame-duck-a-thumbs-up/

Bonny

12-24-2010, 01:39 PM

RICHARD

12-24-2010, 01:50 PM

Hugh Jidette 2012.

wombat2u2004

12-24-2010, 06:20 PM

3 Pints? Oy

Do black eyes feel different in Oz? I have a feeling, if we did that, i'd find out. LOL And most likely, you would not be the one to cause the wound.

Merry Christmas Wom! :D

Merry Xmas to you and yours to Puck. Make sure you all have a good one.
As for a black eye......Sparks wouldn't throw a bottle at you....would she ??? :p

sparks19

12-24-2010, 06:22 PM

Merry Xmas to you and yours to Puck. Make sure you all have a good one.
As for a black eye......Sparks wouldn't throw a bottle at you....would she ??? :p

I only throw fists... bottles make too much of a mess :D

wombat2u2004

12-24-2010, 08:39 PM

I only throw fists... bottles make too much of a mess :D

Sparks: Oh...ok.

Puck I'm sending you a helmet for Xmas.