Heartworm Pills

[Spiritwind]

I'm just wondering what peoples opinions are on the daily heartworm pills? Dimmitrol or any of the other daily heartworm pills...

Peoples experiences? What they thought about it? Did it work if given properly?

Thanks,
Janna

[dragondawg]

I'm just wondering what peoples opinions are on the daily heartworm pills? Dimmitrol or any of the other daily heartworm pills...

Peoples experiences? What they thought about it? Did it work if given properly?

Thanks,
Janna

Why would you want to give heartworm pills daily? Also since you are a Collie fan, you have to worry about anything with Ivermectin in it, and that includes Dimmitrol.

Dimmitrol is not suitable for all breeds e.g. Collie breeds, Collie crosses and some Shepherd breeds. For Ivermectin sensitive breeds, we recommend
Sentinel Spectrum, Interceptor Spectrum, Proheart or Guardian.

Dimmitrol reference (http://www.petsmightymart.com.au/store/dogs-puppies/heart-wormers/dimmitrol-chews-50-pack-1-per-26-48lbs-12-22kg-/prod_89.html)

The problem that Collies have is a genetic trait that allows more of the Ivermectin to pass through the blood/brain barrier via a cellular pump. It creates higher than usual Ivermectin concentrations in the brain leading to possible neurological problems (e.g. seizures or worse). Collies also have the same problem when dealing with Immonium A/D. It's not universal for Collies but does have a very high incidence due to the genetic mutation.

I have my N Carolina puppies on Sentinel year round, which also hits a variety of other worms. Once a month seems cheap enough.

[Spiritwind]

Why would you want to give heartworm pills daily? Also since you are a Collie fan, you have to worry about anything with Ivermectin in it, and that includes Dimmitrol.

Dimmitrol is not suitable for all breeds e.g. Collie breeds, Collie crosses and some Shepherd breeds. For Ivermectin sensitive breeds, we recommend
Sentinel Spectrum, Interceptor Spectrum, Proheart or Guardian.

Dimmitrol reference (http://www.petsmightymart.com.au/store/dogs-puppies/heart-wormers/dimmitrol-chews-50-pack-1-per-26-48lbs-12-22kg-/prod_89.html)

The problem that Collies have is a genetic trait that allows more of the Ivermectin to pass through the blood/brain barrier via a cellular pump. It creates higher than usual Ivermectin concentrations in the brain leading to possible neurological problems (e.g. seizures or worse). Collies also have the same problem when dealing with Immonium A/D. It's not universal for Collies but does have a very high incidence due to the genetic mutation.

I have my N Carolina puppies on Sentinel year round, which also hits a variety of other worms. Once a month seems cheap enough.

Yes.. I am well aware of the ivermectin sensitivity in Collies.. as well as immodium and a whole list of other possible problem drugs in Collies and Collie like breeds... Daily dimmitrol does not have ivermectin in it.. the dimmitrol labled for once a month use does, which is what the link you posted was for.. once a month dimmitrol. Daily dimmitrol is safe, though I will agree that doing heartworm pills once a day would be a pain in the butt!..

Actually I know several breeders who use daily dimmitrol or other types of daily heartworm prevention with their Collies. I have had Collies for 13yrs, and have used interceptor (and on occasion sentinel) the whole time.. I am just trying to get other peoples opinions on the daily heartworm prevention.

Also there is a DNA test you can run on your dogs to see if they carry the mutant gene (MDR1) for ivermectin sensitivity... which on down the road I plan to run one a couple of my dogs. Even though, if you read the info about the MDR1 test and the studies done on ivermectin sesitivity.. it shows that for most collies (with the mutant gene of course), the dosage of ivermectin in hartguard did not affect them... they didn't show any side affects until several times the normal dose was given.. but they could handle a much lower "over dose" of ivermectin than other breeds... however Collies were ALSO shown to react to a much lower dose of milbemycin (interceptor) than other breeds as well..... just kind of an FYI. I'm really not a clueless collie owner, which apparently it sounded like from my first post..

[pitc9]

Personaly, I wouldn't want to have to give my dogs pills everyday.
(I have a hard enough time remembering to take my own pills each day :o )

I use interceptor and LOVE it!

[Cinder & Smoke]

Personaly, I wouldn't want to have to give my dogs pills everyday.
(I have a hard enough time remembering to take my own pills each day :o )


:D
Long ago, First Shepherd Casey, then Arrow, *LIVED* for their daily Heart Worm "Treet" with dinner!
You couldn't possibly forget it - they wouldn't even start eating their Krunchies
untill they SAW you take two Heart Worm Tabs out of the jar and show it to 'em!
After they inhaled dinner, they would *PESTER* like a hungry mosquito till the Tab was delivered!
You couldn't POSSIBLY "forget"! :rolleyes:

[lizbud]

:D
Long ago, First Shepherd Casey, then Arrow, *LIVED* for their daily Heart Worm "Treet" with dinner!
You couldn't possibly forget it - they wouldn't even start eating their Krunchies
untill they SAW you take two Heart Worm Tabs out of the jar and show it to 'em!
After they inhaled dinner, they would *PESTER* like a hungry mosquito till the Tab was delivered!
You couldn't POSSIBLY "forget"! :rolleyes:


My old Vet always stressed daily heartworm pills for puppies. I think most
Vets now prefer the monthly chews instead. Could be an old fashioned idea.

[Catlady711]

Vets now prefer the monthly chews instead. Could be an old fashioned idea.

I think it has to do more with owner compliance than 'old fashioned idea'. Since the monthly heartworm preventatives came out the incidence of heartworm infections have decreased dramatically (at least in our area). It's not that the monthly ones are more effective or the daily ones ineffective, but neither are effective if the owners don't give it.

[almeijer]

I have been told by other breeders that is is important that while breeding your dogs, they need to be using the daily heartworm pills rather than the monthly. The monthly doses work by killing EVERYTHING including both sperm and eggs. Resulting in smaller litters and higher birth defects. Is there any truth/information on this?

[Spiritwind]

I have been told by other breeders that is is important that while breeding your dogs, they need to be using the daily heartworm pills rather than the monthly. The monthly doses work by killing EVERYTHING including both sperm and eggs. Resulting in smaller litters and higher birth defects. Is there any truth/information on this?

I have heard this too... and I do not know if there is any truth or any information available on it? Like I said before I know breeders who use daily heartworm pills and I know breeders who use monthly.. and have never to my knowledge had reproduction problems... I've used interceptor and never had problems.... a person who got 2 dogs from me a while back I know uses daily hw pills... I know some of the breeders who use daily, use it because depending on where you get it, the daily is cheaper than monthly heartworm pills when you have more than just 2-3 dogs.

I do know of some Collie breeders who have it in their contract that any puppy bought from them must only be given daily heartworm prevention..

Janna

[ramanth]

I've never heard of daily heartworm treatments.

To be frank, since I nearly lost Kia to ProHeart 6, I'd be very cautious before over medicating any of my pets.

Both Kia and Chipper have been doing well on monthly treatments (HeartGard).

[Catlady711]

Heartgard has Ivermectin which is why I'm using this as the example to answer the question.

From: http://heartgard.us.merial.com/downloads/Dog_information.pdf

SAFETY: HEARTGARD has shown a wide margin of safety at the recommended dose level in dogs (See PRECAUTIONS for exceptions) including pregnant or breeding bitches, stud dogs and puppies aged 6 or more weeks. ln clinical trials, many
commonly used flea collars, dips, shampoos, anthelmintics, antibiotics, vaccines, and steroid preparations have been administered with HEARTGARD Chewables in a heartworm disease preventive program.

Studies with ivermectin indicate that certain dogs of the Collie breed are more sensitive to the effects of ivermectin administered at elevated dose levels (more than16 times the target use level) than dogs of other breeds. At elevated doses, sensitive dogs showed adverse reactions, which included mydriasis, depression, ataxia, tremors, drooling, paresis, recumbency, excitability, stupor, coma and death.

HEARTGARD demonstrated no signs of toxicity at 10 times the recommended dose (60mcg/kg) in sensitive Collies. Results of these trials support the safety of HEARTGARD products in dogs, including Collies, when used as recommended.

The precaution only stated that dogs must be checked for existing HW infection prior to treating. And the info for Collie reactions related only to gross overdosages.

[Spiritwind]

Heartgard has Ivermectin which is why I'm using this as the example to answer the question.

From: http://heartgard.us.merial.com/downloads/Dog_information.pdf

SAFETY: HEARTGARD has shown a wide margin of safety at the recommended dose level in dogs (See PRECAUTIONS for exceptions) including pregnant or breeding bitches, stud dogs and puppies aged 6 or more weeks. ln clinical trials, many
commonly used flea collars, dips, shampoos, anthelmintics, antibiotics, vaccines, and steroid preparations have been administered with HEARTGARD Chewables in a heartworm disease preventive program.

Studies with ivermectin indicate that certain dogs of the Collie breed are more sensitive to the effects of ivermectin administered at elevated dose levels (more than16 times the target use level) than dogs of other breeds. At elevated doses, sensitive dogs showed adverse reactions, which included mydriasis, depression, ataxia, tremors, drooling, paresis, recumbency, excitability, stupor, coma and death.

HEARTGARD demonstrated no signs of toxicity at 10 times the recommended dose (60mcg/kg) in sensitive Collies. Results of these trials support the safety of HEARTGARD products in dogs, including Collies, when used as recommended.

The precaution only stated that dogs must be checked for existing HW infection prior to treating. And the info for Collie reactions related only to gross overdosages.


Its late, so maybe that is why I'm not following this post, since I am tired and about to go to bed.. but i'm not sure what this had to do with the question?

Also, just kind of an extra bit of info.. even though heartgard is supposed to be safe at the normal recommended doses, you will find very FEW collie people that will used heartgard in non MDR-1 tested dogs. There have been a few Collie people who have claimed their dogs reacted to normal heartgard doeses as well... even though the study shows its supposed to be safe. Really if you look into the MDR-1 study (ivermectin sensitivity) interceptor isn't supposed to be much safer for collies though...

However I do know of some sheltie people who give straight ivermectin once a month, same dosage as what is in heartgard per the weight of the dog, (rather than a pill)..and they have never had a problem..

I actually have 5 DNA cheek swab test kits for the MDR-1 ivermectin sensitivity test for Collies, soon as I have the money to do several at a time, I plan send in the tests to see how my Collies stand...

Link to a list of possible problem drugs for MDR1 affected dogs (http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/drugs.aspx)

[Catlady711]

Its late, so maybe that is why I'm not following this post, since I am tired and about to go to bed.. but i'm not sure what this had to do with the question?

Also, just kind of an extra bit of info.. even though heartgard is supposed to be safe at the normal recommended doses, you will find very FEW collie people that will used heartgard in non MDR-1 tested dogs. There have been a few Collie people who have claimed their dogs reacted to normal heartgard doeses as well... even though the study shows its supposed to be safe.

I was responding to the comments about breeders with pregnant collies and heartworm preventative use.

Heartgard has about a 1.1% reaction rate regardless of breed. Not all animals do well with all medications, heartworm preventative or otherwise.

All I know is we use Heartgard Pluls or Tri-Heart Plus alot where I work including with collies and I've only ever seen one dog, in 7 years, have an actual reaction to them and it was a shepard/lab mix as I recall. We've had dogs of all breeds on different heartworm preventatives while pregnant and never seen a problem either. I suppose that could be coincidental but that's an awfully high percentage just to be coincidental to me considering the number of patients we have on those meds.

[Spiritwind]

I was responding to the comments about breeders with pregnant collies and heartworm preventative use.

Heartgard has about a 1.1% reaction rate regardless of breed. Not all animals do well with all medications, heartworm preventative or otherwise.

All I know is we use Heartgard Pluls or Tri-Heart Plus alot where I work including with collies and I've only ever seen one dog, in 7 years, have an actual reaction to them and it was a shepard/lab mix as I recall. We've had dogs of all breeds on different heartworm preventatives while pregnant and never seen a problem either. I suppose that could be coincidental but that's an awfully high percentage just to be coincidental to me considering the number of patients we have on those meds.

I use heartworm prevention in pregnant bitches and in my stud dogs, and I've never had a problem... however I use interceptor. I know what the studies say (I too have worked at vet clinics for almost 9yrs now) about heartgard, and honestly, when there are other options, I just don't feel safe giving heartgard, unless when I do the MDR1 tests on my dogs I find out some, if any, do not carry the gene for the sensitivity... otherwise I will stick with interceptor.... and any dogs I breed/sell I only recommened interceptor... though like I said before there is a lady that has a couple dogs from me who does the daily pills.

As far as reactions to heargard... when I say I know of dogs who have had reactions, i am not talking about 1 collie who had a reaction, but rather a certain line I know of (and the owner will admit to it) that several of her dogs have had reactions after having been givin heartgard. One even died... this was 7-8yrs ago, long before any tests were available.

Heartgard is cheaper! If I felt safe giving it, I'd give it! Like I said before, I know sheltie breeders who give straight liquid ivermectin once a month (same dosage as in heargard, but no pill) with no problem, which is even cheaper! After I get the money together to do the ivermectin sensitivity tests, if I have dogs who are tested and do not carry the gene, I may very well do the same!!...

Janna

[Catlady711]

It makes sense that a particular line of dogs could all have similar reactions to the same meds. I've seen that in other breeds at our hospital with various meds.

Actually Tri-heart plus is cheapest, well probably next to Iverheart, but we don't use the other one where I work. Carrying 4 different heartworm preventatives is plenty as the inventory cost is huge. We started veering to Tri-heart when Merial kept raising their prices disproportionately about 2x a year and we already had clients balking at the prices, so we gave them another option.

If Interceptor works for you and you're happy with it no need to change. We have some clients that refuse anything but Sentinal, and others same with Heartgard. I think it's more a matter of what works for the client and what the dog will take without a huge fuss. They all work as long as the owner gives it.