Should we foster her?

[Blackrose]

My cousin, Tim, called my mom yesterday to ask a favor of her. He is in the marines and is going to be deployed back to Iraq in September. His favor? He needs someone to keep his two year old female "spoiled rotten princess" Saint Bernard for about seven months while he is overseas. The Saint is good with kids (he has two kids under 4), housebroken, crate trained, "dry mouthed", and is "a really good dog".

My mom didn't tell him no, but didn't tell him yes either. Her dream dog is a long haired female Saint, but she told me, "There is no way we can have a Saint in the house right now. No way." I agree with her - with our hectic schedule, five kids, and looney animals running around the house (*cough* Pheobe! *cough*) adding a Saint into the mix, no matter how well behaved, isn't a good idea as my mom gets EXTREAMLY stressed very easily. Having a 40lb dog inside the house is already bringing her to the brink and Chloe is kenneled in the back part of our house most of the time my mom is home.

We could keep it outside with no problem. I do have a couple of questions concerning that and other things, though:

1.) I know that Saints can physically handle living outdoors, but since they are big mushes could a Saint used to being inside emotionally handle being kept outdoors?

It would be cared for in the same way Blackie and Rose are - it wouldn't be just thrown out back and left there. It would probably be an outside/inside dog - outside during the day, inside at night or during bad weather. We live in a rural area on ten acres so pesky strangers, loose dogs, and other things associated with outside urban living isn't a problem for us.
Now that we have an invisible fence we may be able to train it to stay in our yard so it would have three acres to roam on under supervision. And, of course, it would get walks and plenty of attention.

2.) On the subject of being outside, the Saint would be kenneled and I'm not going to be happy with anything smaller than a 10'x20' kennel. (A 20'x20' kennel would be even better.) However, to purchase that size of a kennel brand new would be....very expensive. But on the other hand, you can get a deer fence that is 7.5'x100' for $300. That right there is a 25'x25' kennel.
Would deer fencing be able to hold a Saint? Or would I be better off finding multiple used kennels for cheap and linking them together?

3.) Another question that my mind is asking is, "What about expenses?" Tim is having financial problems at the moment and he may not be willing to pay for the dog's care. I think he should at least pay for the food and any vet bills that may arise, we can take care of the rest, but my mom is very antsy about putting too much pressure on him. Does having him pay for food and any vet bills sound unreasonable? Since Blackie and Rose together eat about 6 cups of food a day and we spend about $40 on dog food every month...a Saint's food intake would be about that same amount, correct?

4.) Tim is the same cousin who had an unnuetered Black Lab. While he was going through a divorce, caring for two young kids, and getting back on his feet he decided to buy a female Black Lab puppy. Once he realized they were acting up (because of no training) he got rid of them. Just a couple of weeks ago he purchased a Pittie puppy. It is now gone. Right after that he obtained this Saint. All of the dog change-ups have occured in this past year.
Because of Tim's unreliability, my mom is worried that after we've had the Saint for almost a year that when he comes back he won't want it back. After keeping it for seven months I'm not sure we'll want to give it up, but if we don't, we could always place it in a new home. Does this sound okay, or no?

If we don't end up taking the Saint in it will probably end up in a less than desirable situation - a shelter or just given away on a whim.

What do you all think? My mom is trying to decide for herself, but she values my opinion as well as you guys', even though she doesn't know any of you.

[Freedom]

Is there really such a thing as a "dry mouth" Saint?? You really had me chuckling there.

I have no idea what to suggest or what to consider. Other than maybe chat with some Saint owners? Good luck with this situation.

[pitc9]

Is there really such a thing as a "dry mouth" Saint?? You really had me chuckling there.



Yes, there are dry and wet mouth Saints.

While I'm sure a Saint's body is well equipted to be an outside dog... like any dog.. they are not solitary animals and thrive when they are part of a pack. Be it human and/or animal.
From the history you gave us on Tim, I don't think Tim should ever own another dog.

Maybe the best thing you could do for the Saint is to contact a local rescue and see if they could take her.

Saint Bernard Rescue Foundation
Noblesville, IN 46060
Phone: 317-877-0833
[email protected]


Here's some in Ohio:
http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/OH453.html
[email protected]


Saints Elsewhere
Toledo, OH 43619
Phone: 419-691-0330
[email protected]

[Karen]

1.) I know that Saints can physically handle living outdoors, but since they are big mushes could a Saint used to being inside emotionally handle being kept outdoors?

No, as she's a "spoiled princess," she'd be emotionally devastated being away from the people all day. They are completely and utterly "people dogs" and want to be near their humans - ours would lie in a doorway if necessary, to be able to see as many of her people as possible. And she'll be missing her "children" as well.



2.) On the subject of being outside, the Saint would be kenneled and I'm not going to be happy with anything smaller than a 10'x20' kennel. (A 20'x20' kennel would be even better.) However, to purchase that size of a kennel brand new would be....very expensive. But on the other hand, you can get a deer fence that is 7.5'x100' for $300. That right there is a 25'x25' kennel.
Would deer fencing be able to hold a Saint? Or would I be better off finding multiple used kennels for cheap and linking them together?


"Deer fencing" from what I have seen online would not hold a determined Saint Bernard. Never mind an energetic 2-year-old one. If she had to walk through it to get somewhere, she likely would without even slowing down much, that massive bulk is good for such things.



3.) Another question that my mind is asking is, "What about expenses?" Tim is having financial problems at the moment and he may not be willing to pay for the dog's care. I think he should at least pay for the food and any vet bills that may arise, we can take care of the rest, but my mom is very antsy about putting too much pressure on him. Does having him pay for food and any vet bills sound unreasonable? Since Blackie and Rose together eat about 6 cups of food a day and we spend about $40 on dog food every month...a Saint's food intake would be about that same amount, correct?

4 cups of food a day might be about right, now that she's full grown. The females are a bit smaller than the males.



Because of Tim's unreliability, my mom is worried that after we've had the Saint for almost a year that when he comes back he won't want it back. After keeping it for seven months I'm not sure we'll want to give it up, but if we don't, we could always place it in a new home. Does this sound okay, or no?

If we don't end up taking the Saint in it will probably end up in a less than desirable situation - a shelter or just given away on a whim.

What do you all think? My mom is trying to decide for herself, but she values my opinion as well as you guys', even though she doesn't know any of you.

She - the Saint - would be better off with a rescue group and getting adopted out somewhere, in my humble opinion, if there's even a chance he wouldn't want her back.

Sorry I don't have better news for you, but I wouldn't want this Princess Saint to be miserable, and I am sure you don't want that, either.

[lizbud]

I agree. In this situation, a Breed Rescue is the best way to go.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

I agree. In this situation, a Breed Rescue is the best way to go.


I think so too - you heart is in the right place but you know how unreliable your cousin is and would you really want her as a permanent fixture?

A stable, furever home would be much better for her

[clara4457]

Many people think that there are breeds that are meant to live outdoors and while there are some breeds that can handle the weather better, it is never meant to be a place for them to live all the time. Dogs are den/pack animals and even if they "work" outside, they should always "live" inside. There is a good opinion piece on one of the St. Bernard rescue group sites here (http://www.saintrescue.org/outside_dog.htm)


So you want to keep your dog outside:

Outside Dogs

Many potential adopters ask "Is this an 'Outside' dog?" Our answer is, "Not anymore." We attempt to place dogs with people who understand the need of a dog to be a part of the family. Even thousands of years ago when man and all animals lived "outside", there was a cave or den for shelter, and man and dogs lived in small groups or "packs" .The truth is, times have changed but we and the dogs haven't. Both humans and dogs are "pack" animals; we do not tend to be solitary. Domesticated, companion dogs no longer have packs of other dogs to live with, so dogs now need to be members of human families or packs. Furthermore, both people and dogs are "den" animals. This is the reason that dogs can be housebroken. Dogs want shelter in a safe, secure den - your home - and they want their den to be clean.

Obviously, dogs can be forced to live outside, alone and away from their families. But to force this kind of life on a dog is one of the worst things you can do to him. Such a life goes against a dog's two most basic instincts: the pack and the den. If you have any doubts about these ideas, think of all the whining, barking, clawing dogs you have seen tied up alone outside. Dogs trying desperately to get their human families' attention, and then just giving up to become hyperactive, listless, fearful, or vicious when the stress of enforced solitude becomes too much to cope with. The rationale given by people who permanently keep their dogs outside is that they will spend time with the pet outside. Even the most well-meaning pet owner does not spend significant time outside, particularly when it is raining or cold. Consequently, under the best of circumstances for the outside dog, a bowl of food and water hastily shoved before him, a quick pat given, and his owner, his WORLD is gone, leaving the animal to spend another 22 or 23 hours alone.

A dog brings you the gifts of steadfast devotion, abiding love, and joyful companionship. Unless you can responsibly accept a dog's offer of these great gifts, please do not get a dog. If you already have a dog, perhaps this article will help you to see things from his point of view, and possibly motivate you to change your relationship with him. A sad, lonely, bewildered dog, kept outside, wondering why he cannot be with his family, brings only sadness and unhappiness to the world.

Although I know that you have the dog's interest in mind, he would be much better off going to a reputable rescue that will help him find a good home where he can live his life in love and comfort.

JMHO

[Blackrose]

No, as she's a "spoiled princess," she'd be emotionally devastated being away from the people all day.

That is what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure. All of the Saints I've met have been the BIGGEST babies in the world (and quite drooly :D ) and as a breed I know they hate to be away from their "pack".

As I'm still trying to work out options here, I'd like to ask another question:

they are not solitary animals and thrive when they are part of a pack. Be it human and/or animal.
Blackie and Rose have never had any issues with staying outside because they have each other for company. Rose has lived with Blackie her whole life and they are quite fond of each other. I have a 6'x20' kennel that I use as a "crate" for Chloe that runs adjacent(sp) to B&R's kennel. I could just purchase two 10' panels and add on to that (to make it 16'x20') and that could be the Saints kennel. Would having the company of other dogs help her cope during the day (she would be coming in at evening/night) when she would be outside, or no?
Of course, that depends entirely on whether or not the Saint is good with other dogs. I know it will take B&R some time to get used to a new dog as they have their own doggy hang-ups.

Would a rescue by any chance be in the position to foster the Saint for Tim while he is overseas without placing it up for adoption? I know that is a waste of time and resources, considering how many Saints that NEED a rescue, but I wasn't sure on a rescue's policy concerning dogs relinquished due to the owner being deployed.

If the only alternative for the Saint is to be placed in a rescue, would it be horrible if we tried to keep it here first and if things weren't working out to place it in a rescue or rehome it ourselves?

I'm just trying to come up with ideas that would seem more "agreeable" to Tim, because I think at first he'll blanch at the idea of just giving the dog up to a rescue. When he's running short on time, maybe not, but there is always that chance that he actually "likes" this dog and wants to keep it. He may also not want to the dog to be kept outside and would rather place it in a rescue. I really don't know.

Again, I really need more info about the Saint in general, and Tim's stand on everything. I'll see if my mom can get ahold of him (I do believe he is currently located in South Carolina and I'm not sure if Mom knows his phone number).

[Karen]

Would having the company of other dogs help her cope during the day (she would be coming in at evening/night) when she would be outside, or no?

Frankly, probably not. Especially as she has been with a family - as in kids! a Saints favorite kind of people. She'd be missing her people, and other dogs are just not a substitute, in the eyes of a Saint.

[Blackrose]

Frankly, probably not. Especially as she has been with a family - as in kids! a Saints favorite kind of people. She'd be missing her people, and other dogs are just not a substitute, in the eyes of a Saint.
Okay. Again, just wanted to make sure.

(BTW, our family does have kids...five to be exact. My older brother who is almost twenty, me at seventeen, and then I have three younger siblings ranging from the age of 7-13.)

Do you think we should try it anyways and if it doesn't work put her into a rescue (with Tim's approval) or should we try to convince him to place her into a rescue first and foremost?

[Karen]

I'd encourage him to contact a rescue right away - the less she gets bounced around, the better.

[jennielynn1970]

My cousin, Tim, called my mom yesterday to ask a favor of her. He is in the marines and is going to be deployed back to Iraq in September. His favor? He needs someone to keep his two year old female "spoiled rotten princess" Saint Bernard for about seven months while he is overseas.

It's good he is checking for foster homes well in advance of the September deadline. :)



3.) Another question that my mind is asking is, "What about expenses?" Tim is having financial problems at the moment and he may not be willing to pay for the dog's care.

If it is Tim's dog, Tim should be responsible for the expenses. Just like if the dog was being boarded or kenneled, he would have to pay for the expenses there. If he is having financial difficulty, maybe he should think of placing the dog up for adoption since he will also be deployed for a good length of time and has a history of dumping dogs.



4.) Tim is the same cousin who had an unnuetered Black Lab. While he was going through a divorce, caring for two young kids, and getting back on his feet he decided to buy a female Black Lab puppy. Once he realized they were acting up (because of no training) he got rid of them.

Just a couple of weeks ago he purchased a Pittie puppy. It is now gone.

Right after that he obtained this Saint. All of the dog change-ups have occured in this past year.

Between the financial issues, and the above concerns, I would suggest he rehome the Saint. Why is he adopting these dogs and then dumping them? I think if you took in this dog for him, whether he is being deployed or not, you're just enabling him to keep doing this to animals in the future. What are the odds, realistically, that he WILL take the dog back when he comes back?



Because of Tim's unreliability, my mom is worried that after we've had the Saint for almost a year that when he comes back he won't want it back.

If we don't end up taking the Saint in it will probably end up in a less than desirable situation - a shelter or just given away on a whim.

What do you all think? My mom is trying to decide for herself, but she values my opinion as well as you guys', even though she doesn't know any of you.

Not sure whether you and your mom can see the RED FLAGS waving all over the place here, but I sure do!

Try to get your cousin to make a responsible choice to rehome the dog if he thinks that he will not want to take her back (or is already regretting adopting her) once he comes back from Iraq.

[cyber-sibes]

You've already been given lots of good info & options - I just want to addrress one thing - if Tim is in the service, then he can use on-base veterinary care that is WAY WAY WAY less expensive than civilian vets. (hubby's a DOD employee, so we can take ours to the Navy vet for checkups cost: $2.00. Vaccines cost about 1/4-1/3 normal rates, & heartworm & flea/tick meds are about 1/2 price.)

Whatever he decides, be sure he takes care of all this several weeks before he goes. (it may take that long to get an appt.) Considering how inexpensively he can take care of these things, foisting all these expenses off onto family or friends would be very unfair.