Pregnant Scottish Terrier [Archive]

ScottieMommy

09-12-2007, 04:45 PM

Hello everyone my name is Leila and this is one of many forums i belong to. My dog is a female Scottish Terrier.

I was planning on breeding my Scottie once she got older, she is curently 15 months old. But my friends Poodle was over when she was in heat her first days tho. I did NOT see a tie happen but i know that a tie is NOT needed for a dog to get pregnant. Slipped mating can produce a small litter as well. If shes pregnant she will be 5 weeks tomorrow. I took her to the vet on Friday the 7th and she told me there is an 80% chance shes pregnant and she felt two little things. She has all signs of being pregnant.

What do you think? I am not trying to start anything just getting some advice.

These pictures where taken on August 28th the day before she turned 3 weeks pregnant.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/HammiLover15/DCFN0003-8.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/HammiLover15/DCFN0005-7.jpg

This one was taken on 9/10/07

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/HammiLover15/DCFN0004-11.jpg

These where taken yesterday 9/11/07 i shaved her belly like a week ago.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/HammiLover15/tummy2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a93/HammiLover15/backss.jpg

ScottieMommy

09-13-2007, 01:59 PM

Im i feeding Nena too much? Today she starts week 5, sorry about the other mistake i counted wrong. Since last Friday the 7th when the vet told me there was an 80% chance she was pregnant i started to feed her more. Usually she ate like once a day PLUS things through out the day and human food sometime. Since Friday i started to give her two of her meals a day PLUS i been cooking her some chicken noodle soup with cheese. Now three days ago she started to be more picky with her own food tho will eat as much as i give her of my food. I can still manage her to eat one bowl of her own food a day PLUS mine. Since i started to feed her more that Friday she has been having soft poo and diareah some days as well. Remember she also got the rabies shot on Friday but it would of clear by now. Now yesterday i came home and she has potty diareah with some sort of gel like. And this morning as well and she also trew up which i know is normal in pregnant dogs and she has only done it once in her whole pregnancy. She started all this on Friday when we visited the vet and i started to change her diet and feed her more. She has never done this before. So i figure it was due to diet chance and feeding her double what she ate before. Could this be it?

Freedom

09-13-2007, 02:22 PM

Well, I wouldn't keep feeding her our foods, it isn't well balanced. Didn't the vet make any recommendations for a pregnant female foodwish?

Good grief, what surprise you have!

RedyreRotties

09-13-2007, 02:35 PM

ScottieMommy

09-13-2007, 03:25 PM

I think you need to supervise your bitch in season better.

I think you need to do more research about breeding in general since increasing diet and caloric load before week 6 can lead to issues in some bitches.

(I DID not planned this breeding.)

I think vaccinating a bitch who might be in whelp is VERY UNWISE!!!!!! ESPECIALLY RABIES!!!!

(VET told me is was ok to do so it was not my choise and is a KILLED vac NOT live)

I think you should research Von Willebrand's Disease in Scottish Terriers.

(DID AND DONE)

I think you should have an ultrasound done on your bitch to ascertain for CERTAIN if she is in whelp.

(Will do x rays at about 50 to 55 days)

And I really think you should spay your puppy and forget about breeding.

(She is 5 weeks along NOT aborting now.)

Anymore questions when i required answers?

Thanks for the help tho.

ScottieMommy

09-13-2007, 03:37 PM

Freedom thanks for the help =] Nope the vet told me to keep feeding her like i was doing. A meal a day i guess then? I will go easy on her too. It seems she started this when i started to feed her more.

Ginger's Mom

09-13-2007, 03:40 PM

Anymore questions when i required answers?

I was confused by this since I did not see any questions in the previous posts. You did indicate you were looking for advice, and you did receive some advice.

ScottieMommy

09-13-2007, 03:53 PM

Yes my mistake tho they where advice they seem more like questions. I did not get a responce from Redeye only more questions it seemed. Her first sentence did answer my question but then she continued on. I dint ask for that. But i am still thanksful that she posted and helped out.

RedyreRotties

09-13-2007, 04:29 PM

I did not ask you a single question.

You asked what people think.

I told you what I think. Of course you would not agree with any of it, or you would not be making the OP.

FWIW, and ultrasound NOW would tell you if in fact your bitch is pregnant or not. SOmething that might be good for you to know.

ScottieMommy

09-13-2007, 04:42 PM

FWIW, and ultrasound NOW would tell you if in fact your bitch is pregnant or not. SOmething that might be good for you to know.

Well the vet told me is best to wait untill she is at least 6 weeks and i will find out on my own and come back for xrays on days 50-55. So thats what i will do. And she has all signs, tho could be false pregnancy which i doubt. I have never seen her like this.

critter crazy

09-13-2007, 04:55 PM

What exactly are you asking of us?? People have given you their opinions, but you dont seem at all interested. So what exactly are you looking for??:confused:

vinjashira

09-13-2007, 05:11 PM

ScottieMommy, perhaps you can find the answer to your question here:
http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/Articles/careandfeeding.cfm
http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/Articles/careandfeeding2.cfm

ScottieMommy

09-13-2007, 05:19 PM

Thanks for all the help.

Vela

09-13-2007, 05:51 PM

/sigh poor pup. Not good to feed her a bunch of people food though, you could make her ill. It's not balanced or formulated for dogs, and chicken soup is high in sodium, and cheese is not great for them either except as rare occasional treats.

buttercup132

09-13-2007, 06:54 PM

What exactly are you asking of us?? People have given you their opinions, but you dont seem at all interested. So what exactly are you looking for??http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/confused.gif
Attention? Sympathy? Potential buyers?

I am not trying to start anything just getting some advice Sorry but you come onto a pet board saying you failed to watch your dog in heat while around a intact male..it's gonna start something. I'm assuming you came here because the other boards got upset too. And if you were planning on breeding her you should know what to expect. Unless of course you planned on doing it the BYB way. But OF COURSE you wouldn't be doing that now would you?

I think you need to supervise your bitch in season better.

I think you need to do more research about breeding in general since increasing diet and caloric load before week 6 can lead to issues in some bitches.

I think vaccinating a bitch who might be in whelp is VERY UNWISE!!!!!! ESPECIALLY RABIES!!!!

I think you should research Von Willebrand's Disease in Scottish Terriers.

I think you should have an ultrasound done on your bitch to ascertain for CERTAIN if she is in whelp.

And I really think you should spay your puppy and forget about breeding.

:D I love that we have reputable breeders on PT now. Great post count it as my opinion too.

I think vaccinating a bitch who might be in whelp is VERY UNWISE!!!!!! ESPECIALLY RABIES!!!!

(VET told me is was ok to do so it was not my choise and is a KILLED vac NOT live)

Just thought I'd throw this out there too most vets are dummies.
Of course they will tell you to vac you dog more money for them faster.

ScottieMommy

09-13-2007, 07:30 PM

Attention? Sympathy? Potential buyers?

(How dare you say such thing? I have NEVER brought dollar signs into this. If you dont know then dont get into my business please. I came for help ONLY. See this is what happends in most forums. Anyways vet said she felt two things. I am 100% sure i am keeping one puppy and my grandmother is keeping another one for SURE.)

I love that we have reputable breeders on PT now. Great post count it as my opinion too.

(Yes good for you)

Just thought I'd throw this out there too most vets are dummies.
Of course they will tell you to vac you dog more money for them faster.

(Oh okie then who in the world can we trust for our pets? And i have READ myself that YES you can give dogs killed vac while pregnant but NOT live ones at all. I have given her no MEDS at all either and not planning to.)

Ok anything else?

buttercup132

09-13-2007, 07:36 PM

If you dont know then dont get into my business please. If you don't want people knowing your buisness don't go posting on public forums where everyone can read especially if your just going to argue their opinion PLEASE!

Oh okie then who in the world can we trust for our pets? I guess you missed the part where I said MOST vets.

ScottieMommy

09-13-2007, 08:30 PM

If you don't want people knowing your buisness don't go posting on public forums where everyone can read especially if your just going to argue their opinion PLEASE!

(Then can you send me somewhere else for helping advice and less argument for something that cant be fixed?)

I guess you missed the part where I said MOST vets.

(I guess)

3muttsandaboston

09-13-2007, 09:22 PM

I'm sorry everyone is being so rude but they really just care for the dogs best intrest. It isn't to early to do an ultrasound. Most vets will do it at any time. It's best to know now if she is pregnant rather than later. She is a beautiful girl. Make sure to research research research before the time comes for her to give birth!

CathyBogart

09-13-2007, 09:55 PM

Egads....if you had done your research, as you claimed, you would know that at this point a pseudopregnancy would look exactly the same as a real pregnancy unless you had an ultrasound done. So the answer to your question is if you want to know at this point ASK FOR AN ULTRASOUND.

Unfortunately, even that is not always 100%

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 05:20 AM

Thanks Linday =]

Whisk_Luva

09-14-2007, 11:27 AM

Welcome to PT....

I dont know anything about dog breeding...

I just wanted to give you a nice welcome :D

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 02:25 PM

Thanks.. ahhh cute hammies! I have a 2 year old male Syrian Hamster light brown and white. He was born on September the 9th and i had him since he was 2 weeks old.

Flatcoatluver

09-14-2007, 02:54 PM

Welcome to pet talk...

I just don't understand how you could let a intact male in your house, knowing that your female is inheat. It's just so irresponsible.

Like others said, she should not be being fed human food, it's not healthy and your just making your dog more picky and want to beg you more. I think I am stating the obvious.

And you wonder why all the fourms are like this.. because we are animal lovers, our heart breaks everytime we hear of another accsident or irresponsible breeding because we know that means another dog is put to sleep in shelter. I know I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that because I was a irresponsible breeder, I put a dog to sleep in the shelter.

*steps of soap box*

RedyreRotties

09-14-2007, 03:13 PM

http://members6.boardhost.com/Scotties/msg/1168019282.html

http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/433468.html

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 03:16 PM

Flatcoatluver

09-14-2007, 04:00 PM

Redeye DID you not read my first post? YES I WAS GOING TO BREED HER IN THE FUTURE? You missed that part? Tho time got ahead of me.

First post says:
(I was planning on breeding my Scottie once she got older, she is curently 15 months old.)
Shame on you, breeeding mixed breeds. Horrible and your so irresponsible!!!!!!!! Thanks for ruining breeds (scottie and the poodle breed) even more, with a dog that doesn't have AKC papers.

buttercup132

09-14-2007, 04:13 PM

How dare you say such thing? I have NEVER brought dollar signs into this Seeing what has now been posted you obviously are putting $ signs on all the puppies. Why else would you breed her to make mutts?

Please oh please do tell me I'd love to hear a answer back from this one.

*cough*BYB*cough*

:( :mad:

Flatcoatluver

09-14-2007, 04:21 PM

Found some other places you posted! Sounds like your whole plan was to breed your dog to a poodle. Would you like to make up another fake "breed".

http://www.domesticsale.com/Classifieds/137727.html
http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/community/forum-view.php?id=94509
http://www.gotpetsonline.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=43663

*LabLoverKEB*

09-14-2007, 05:21 PM

critter crazy

09-14-2007, 05:22 PM

Uggghhhh...disgusting!!!
I have a female Black and Brindle Scottish Terrier. She will come into her second heat cycle soon and i was hoping i could find a stud to breed her. I am either looking for a purebred Scottish Terrier any color, or any color Toy Poodle. Nena is 20lbs and very healthy, she has her Pedigree but no AKC. I am NOT looking for the perfect dog must be healthy but does not need Pedigree or AKC papers. This puppies will stay in the family. I am either looking to pay $150 or under or pick of litter. I am located in Naples, FL and willing to travel to cities close. Please email me with your dog's info and picture if possible, thanks.

Sounds like Backyard Breeding to me!!:mad:

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 05:48 PM

Sounds like Backyard Breeding to me!!

You are seriously pathetic! I know this male dog since he was 12 weeks old. I know his previous owners and parents before my friend got him. I have ONE dog at home not 30. And after this TWO puppy litter she will be spayed. PUPPIES WILL NOT BE SOLD. NO MONEY WILL BE MAKE OUT OF THIS.

Still think about a backyard breeder?

PS: You dont need Pedigree to LOVE a dog. So thats why i did not ask for one. These puppies will be kept in the family.

And dont you people read when you post links? DONT you see they all say the same this one does? On planning to breed? I guess you ALL got to make it big in here huh?

Lady's Human

09-14-2007, 05:57 PM

If your family wants puppies, go to a shelter and adopt. You have no way of knowing what the temperment of the pups is going to be. You have no way of knowing what genetic issues they are going to have. This "unplanned" breeding was foolish. Letting an intact male anywhere near a female in heat is just dumb.

There are plenty of scotty mixes on petfinder. Give one of them a home instead of breeding more.

Husky_mom

09-14-2007, 05:58 PM

well let me tell you...... pedigree or not........ scottish terrier with poodle/westie/or whatever other dog.... even if you know him since forever.... is BYB!!!........ not only moneywise.......it´s a thing of being responsible.....

if you cared about the breed and were responsible, would at least get a healthy male dog of SAME breed...... regardless of pedigree.....

but the ad was like "hey if you gt a male dog, here´s my bitch, no matter what breed he is" thats BYB...... and being irresponsible

if you had planned to breed the least you could have done was search for a good SCOTTISH TERRIER male......

ok, the poodle breeding was "accidental" ok...... things happen, and we understand that, but deliberately planning on doing that?? come on.......

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 06:07 PM

Yes i know it was my mistake. But at least i know for a fact that these puppies WILL never endup in a shelter. Because one 100% sure i am keeping one and i am 100% sure my grandmother is keeping one. And no her dogs ALL died of old age, she NEVER gave one up.

So my mistake wont endup with any puppies in the shelter. Like some people actually sell them for $1000 or up. Money NEVER crossed my mind.

Catlady711

09-14-2007, 06:17 PM

The point everyone here is trying to make that even though you have homes for two puppies, that is two puppies in a shelter somewhere that are going to die rather than get a home that you could have provided to them.

If you and your grandmother wanted puppies so badly there are MANY good ones, even pedigreed ones, in shelters you could have chosen from rather than allow, plan or accidentally breed your own dog.

Freedom

09-14-2007, 06:23 PM

This is BYB. You should be getting this poor dog in for an abort and spay before it is too late.

You have mixed breeds. You had not researched; don't know or seem to care WHAT the standard if for the breed. No testing, no concerns about what genetically may turn out wrong with puppies. I agree wit the above, if you and grandma wanted puppies, go to a shelter. Now go take care of your dear Nena while you can.

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 07:33 PM

My grandmother was not looking for a puppy at the moment. She LOVES Nena and told me if she was ever to have puppies she will take one for sure. Her oldest dog recently passed away two months ago.

By the way some shelters make it really hard to adopt sometimes. Like if you rent half the shelters or more will turn you down and they are really strick. I am sure that an animal lover who rents will NOT return a dog to a shelter.

Down here in my city i was looking at Petfinder once and one no kill shelter adopts out dogs for $250 if there purebred and they even give you papers that owner left for more charge which is pathetic! They even wanted $250 for a Puggle and added him under the purebred list. Are you kidding me? That seriously got me mad, how they compare purebreds to mutts in a shelter and charge more. While the kill shelters charges $55 for ALL dogs and they need the money even more.

Lady's Human

09-14-2007, 07:37 PM

And how much are the vet bills for the pregnant puppy going to cost you? This is impossible to justify away. No matter how you look at it it is a poor decision.

sasvermont

09-14-2007, 08:01 PM

I don't think the message is getting through to the originator. :rolleyes:

Freedom

09-14-2007, 08:15 PM

I don't think the message is getting through to the originator. :rolleyes:

Maybe we are all being too subtle.

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 08:18 PM

Well do you think if she was sick i would not take her to the vet? Infact today we had an app at 5 and we did go. What makes you think i wont take her to the vet?

I will do anything to make sure this puppies make it sound and healthy.

When you get a dog you are making a commitment that no matter what happends she/he will get the care they deserve, that goes if she is pregnant or not. So i dont see a problem here.

Lady's Human

09-14-2007, 09:01 PM

My point about the vet is this:

You were complaining about adoption fees.

You have a pregnant dog.

The pregnant dog's vet bills could easily run into the $1000 range by the time all is said and done. That's enough money to save several dogs from being put to sleep.

SPAY THE DOG! :mad: Spend the money at the shelter instead of the vet's office!

Giselle

09-14-2007, 09:02 PM

The problem is that there are approximately 3-4 million dogs and puppies in shelters yearly. Of those dogs, 56.4% are euthanized.

Is that clear enough? It's a matter of ETHICS, not physical "rights and wrongs". Is it ethical to breed litters of mixed breed dogs for the sole purpose of "companionship" when there are literally 3-4 million of these type of dogs languishing in shelters every year? As much as you want to live in your fantasy world, not every one of your puppy buyers will be able to provide a stable home for life. It's the hard, cold truth. And I'd be glad to discuss this with you 5 years from now when your dog's puppies are no longer cute and fluffy and when their owners are going through life problems like marital and moving issues.

But since you don't seem concerned with the ethical implications, let me lay it out in a medical sense:
Are your and your friend's dog tested for every single possible congenital disease? PRA? Luxating patellas? Do either of your dogs have a genetic predisposition to epilepsy (this is, by the way, impossible to determine without a pedigree)? Do they have genetic predispositions to cancer (again, can't determine without a pedigree)?

What will you do when your dog's puppies suddenly develop these health problems? If you can deal with the guilt, go ahead - breed. Personally, I can't subject other dogs to die while I breed potentially unhealthy puppies.

Kfamr

09-14-2007, 09:06 PM

I don't think the message is getting through to the originator. :rolleyes:

The fact that this person (the OP) posted the same situation on another forum I'm on and got A LOT of great advice and information (people were slightly nicer there, though.) Seems not much will get through to the OP and I wish her and her dog luck.

mr.chiwawa

09-14-2007, 09:22 PM

Just like my mom says THERE IS NO CURE FOR STUPID!!
And that is all this women is... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Alysser

09-14-2007, 09:24 PM

When you get a dog you are making a commitment that no matter what happends she/he will get the care they deserve, that goes if she is pregnant or not. So i dont see a problem here.

I wasn't aware that breeding your dog by accident was PART of that commitment.

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 09:54 PM

This breeding was an accident. And just to let you all know when the Poodle was over it was Nenas 3rd day into heat and someone well said to me that they cant get pregnant untill day 11 or so i believe. No one was born knowing it all.

These puppies will get ALL that is needed for them PERIOD.

Lady's Human

09-14-2007, 10:05 PM

So go to a shelter, pick out two dogs, and pay for them to be PTS.

Essentially, that's what you are doing by breeding mixed breed dogs. There could be shelter puppies/dogs being adopted, but no, you breed more mutts.

Might as well make it official and do it in person.

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 10:09 PM

You aparently dont get it do you? Before getting Nena i moved the eath to try to adopt and NO just because one side on my home was NOT fenced the dogs where given to someone else who i then saw adopting them out again because she was moving. If the dogs would of come home with me right now and forever will still be with me!

And NO i am NOT a breeder how dare you say that? ONE mistake makes you into something your not? Dont you get it i am getting my dog spayed after this and her puppies as well. You all seem to find something wrong every single time to turn this around. But i seriously dont care what you think of me really. I know i love my dog and will do whatever it takes for the puppies to make it.

Lady's Human

09-14-2007, 10:12 PM

No, we get it completely.

You, however, are ignorant beyond words.

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 10:13 PM

By the way i was NOT complaining money wise. I was making a point about how a NON kill shelter could ask so much when a kill shelter asks for so little thats all. And a non kill shelter could make a HUGE mistake like calling a Puggle a purebred and charging as much as they do with purebred dogs.

Flatcoatluver

09-14-2007, 10:22 PM

Do you know what a non kill shelter even is? It's run all by foster parents, so of course there going to cost more. It cost more to have animals in foster homes, instead of keeping them in cages. Adopting a dog is really cheap compared to buying it from a breeder. They come already neutered/spayed, vaccinated, wormed, mircrochipped, and many other things.

mr.chiwawa

09-14-2007, 10:26 PM

ON A HAPPY NOTE I BECOME A FOSTER MOMMY ON MONDAY I WILL POST PICTURES FOR ALL YOU THAT SUPPORT THE SAME CAUSE I DO.... :D :p

OH AND LIKE I STATED EARLIER THERE IS NO CURE FOR STUPID PEOPLE :mad:

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 10:32 PM

I rather donate to a kill shelter then a non kill shelter, they GOT all the time in the world for those dogs others get 10 days!!

OH AND LIKE I STATED EARLIER THERE IS NO CURE FOR STUPID PEOPLE

Ohhh really? Thats interesting guess you where one of those born genious.

mr.chiwawa

09-14-2007, 10:33 PM

I rather donate to a kill shelter then a non kill shelter, they GOT all the time in the world for those dogs others get 10 days!!

Ohhh really? Thats interesting guess you where one of those born genious.

Your above comment just proves my point. :D :rolleyes:

ScottieMommy

09-14-2007, 10:35 PM

Your above comment just proves my point.

Thanks glad i could help out =]

.sarah

09-14-2007, 11:02 PM

While I don't think Scottie's attitude towards our responses has been nice, neither have most of the responses. You guys have to remember that name calling and telling someone how irresponsible they are is not a means of educating them. It's a wonder that she comes back. She is not getting much advice except for from a few people. If we want to stop irresponsible breeding we need to educate and it needs to be done in a mature manner. Otherwise you stir up emotions and the people no longer want to take advice from you.

ScottieMommy, I hope for your dog's sake that she is not pregnant. She is just a baby herself. Whether or not she is pregnant, once she is through this please spay her. If you want to go about breeding in a responsible manner you will need to become serious about showing and health testing. Responsible breeders spend countless hours researching pedigrees and traveling to dog shows. Thousands of dollars are spent on travel expenses, health testing, stud dog fees, vet bills, and many more costs that many people do not realize. In most cases, even if the puppies are sold for $1000 each, the breeder will lose a great deal of money. They always take back their puppies, even at 12 years old, for ANY reason. And, at the end of the day, they did it for the love of their breed. To preserve and improve a breed that they hold dear to their heart. If you want to breed and be responsible, this is what will be asked of you.

I encourage you to really do some research. Responsible breeders have years of research - both text and hands on - before they even consider breeding their first litter. Buy books on breeding, don't just read the internet. Anyone can post something on the internet and make it look official. Talk to breeders, especially Scottie breeders (or Poodle, Westie, whatever breed you are interested in). Go to dog shows. Really research. And if you still wish to breed, you will know how to go about it. You will be ready in case something goes wrong. After all, there are many problems that can arise before, during, and after whelp.

Re: vaccinating while pregnant - that is a very bad idea. Just like human doctors, there are good veterinarians and bad veterinarians. Remember someone had to have graduated at the bottom of the class...

I have some wonderful websites that I had bookmarked on my old computer but I do not have them on this new one, otherwise I would post them for you. I also have some books I could recommend, but it is late and I have a DOG SHOW (:D) in the morning.

Also, I'd just like to point out really quick the RedyreRotties is a wonderful source of information. She is a very responsible breeder and her advice is wonderful. Please look over her initial post with an open mind.

Giselle

09-14-2007, 11:03 PM

Ohhh really? Thats interesting guess you where one of those born genious.
No, but he is willing to learn. ARE YOU?

Go back and, for the love of DoG, read my first post.

Furthermore, nobody has accused you of being anything you never claimed yourself to be. You called yourself a breeder:

I have a female Black and Brindle Scottish Terrier. She will come into her second heat cycle soon and i was hoping i could find a stud to breed her. I am either looking for a purebred Scottish Terrier any color, or any color Toy Poodle. Nena is 20lbs and very healthy, she has her Pedigree but no AKC. I am NOT looking for the perfect dog must be healthy but does not need Pedigree or AKC papers. This puppies will stay in the family. I am either looking to pay $150 or under or pick of litter. I am located in Naples, FL and willing to travel to cities close. Please email me with your dog's info and picture if possible, thanks.

I'm sorry that one adoption group didn't adopt out to you, but you don't have to retaliate by murdering shelter puppies with your actions. Abort the litter now, and save the lives of dogs who are already on death row. We do not need any more puppies in this heavily overpopulated world.

Catlady711

09-14-2007, 11:20 PM

And NO i am NOT a breeder how dare you say that?

While you weren't responding to my comment with that response, however I have to respond to this one.

How many people does a person have to kill to be a murderer?
Answer: Only one

How many lies does a person have to tell to be a liar?
Answer: Only one

How many buildings does a person have to burn down to be an arsonist?
Answer: Only one

How many litters of puppies does a person have to produce to be a breeder?
Answer: Only one

Pam

09-15-2007, 01:23 AM

I have a female Black and Brindle Scottish Terrier. She will come into her second heat cycle soon and i was hoping i could find a stud to breed her. I am either looking for a purebred Scottish Terrier any color, or any color Toy Poodle. Nena is 20lbs and very healthy, she has her Pedigree but no AKC. I am NOT looking for the perfect dog must be healthy but does not need Pedigree or AKC papers. This puppies will stay in the family. I am either looking to pay $150 or under or pick of litter. I am located in Naples, FL and willing to travel to cities close. Please email me with your dog's info and picture if possible, thanks.ggghhhh...disgusting!!!

Sounds like Backyard Breeding to me!!:mad:

The above statement, apparently by you, and posted by critter crazy speaks for itself. Looks like this breeding was pretty intentional. My pet peeve especially is any dog with *poo* tacked on the end. :mad:

crow_noir

09-15-2007, 01:38 AM

Ugggh!!! See, this is the attitude right here that i find disgusting! Would you suggest the same thing to a human mother that hasn't even had one child yet?

I can see if this dog had been mated by something twice its size getting an abortion, but not for something like this.

These pups are on the way whether you like it or not, let's at least be civil with this poster and give as much advice as we can for a HEALTHY mom and litter.

You should be getting this poor dog in for an abort and spay before it is too late.

crow_noir

09-15-2007, 01:43 AM

It is NOT pathetic. A lot of times these dogs come to these rescues in very poor condition and need a lot of vet care. Not to mention the time they spend in the care of the rescue. There's the cost of food. The cost of gas if the rescues do adoption day events.

You may spend a very low price for a shelter dog, but you spend just as much, if not more in vets costs.

Down here in my city i was looking at Petfinder once and one no kill shelter adopts out dogs for $250 if there purebred and they even give you papers that owner left for more charge which is pathetic! They even wanted $250 for a Puggle and added him under the purebred list. Are you kidding me? That seriously got me mad, how they compare purebreds to mutts in a shelter and charge more. While the kill shelters charges $55 for ALL dogs and they need the money even more.

crow_noir

09-15-2007, 01:51 AM

Sadly some rescues get hopped up on some ego trip and don't look far enough into the situations. They become blind to the reality of the world. They don't budge for anything. They don't realize how much harm they do by being overprotective. They forget that sometimes they have to let go.

On the opposite end of that... perhaps that particular dog really really really needed a fully fenced in yard. Some personalities are like that. Those people may have seemed like the best choice at the time.

I've been on both sides of the fence. I was denied an adoption because i was younger than they thought i was in our conversations (yet I met their age requirement according to their rules.) And I'm also involved in the rescue circuit. I've seen the ups and downs in both.

You aparently dont get it do you? Before getting Nena i moved the eath to try to adopt and NO just because one side on my home was NOT fenced the dogs where given to someone else who i then saw adopting them out again because she was moving. If the dogs would of come home with me right now and forever will still be with me!

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 06:41 AM

Thanks everyone for pointing all that out. I agree with everything, yes about the shelter too.

And one MORE time as for the ADD can someone PLEASE stop posting it? I am SURE we have covered that if not go back and real the WHOLE thread if you did not, thanks.

By the way when i said something about the abortion in some other forums and compare them with a child people went nuts on me! Dont we always say animals are like humans? I said you would NOT abort a child if you did not have money to care for yourself or you do not have the time to love that child. Because there are wonderful people who cant have children and thanks to those who dont abort their dream comes true. Why? Why do we think we can do this to a dog? Because she CANT talk and is smaller than us? I am sure she has a heart, she can feel her mother instincts by now. I would never do such thing UNLESS her life was really on the edge.

Kfamr

09-15-2007, 08:08 AM

Because thousands of children don't die in our country on a daily basis because there are no homes for them.

However, because there are people who think little Fifi would make a great momma, and so and so wants a puppy - there are thousands of completely sound, healthy puppies dying in the shelter daily. Because some shelters are so overrun they don't have the means to do it humanely, either.

Just because YOUR puppies won't go to the shelter doesn't stop the other puppies already in the shelter from dying. It's all about "Help control the pet population; have your pet spayed or neutered."

Alysser

09-15-2007, 08:13 AM

Crow_Noir, comparing dogs and comparing children is like comparing apples to oranges. When kids are put to sleep by the millions each year, then you can bring them into the picture. I am not trying to be rude, and perhaps in someone else's case I have failed to do that, but honestly one thing I can't stand is when kids are brought into the picture of the unwanted pet population and breeding.

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 08:23 AM

Ok so if shelters are SO stickt then where should i go to adopt a dog? If you want the dog overpopulation to shop then find a way to shut down PUPPYMILLS where they have over 150 dogs breeding over and over a day and having litters every single day! And you worry about me? For having ONE litter of TWO puppies and then getting her spayed? You aparently have NOT seen how they offer dogs in auctions at 60 days pregnant or so to make more money, THATS CRUELTY. My dog is in inside dog, gets everything she needs, vet care is always at hand and she will get spayed and so will her puppies. Whats done is done and i am not going back. But you can be darn sure these puppies will be loved and cared for. They where unplanned NOT unloved.

Ginger's Mom

09-15-2007, 09:17 AM

If you want the dog overpopulation to shop then find a way to shut down PUPPYMILLS where they have over 150 dogs breeding over and over a day and having litters every single day! And you worry about me? For having ONE litter of TWO puppies and then getting her spayed?
Are you suggesting that because someone has produced 150 poorly bred puppies, that it is not bad to produce two poorly bred puppies? I am not sure I agree with that philosophy anymore than I would agree that it is alright to abuse only one dog as long as you don't abuse 150. It is not alright to produce puppies that are not planned, tested, and have potential homes. Have you found out definitively how many puppies she is carrying? What are your plans if she has six puppies? Are financial able to keep them all?
Unfortunately no matter what the people say here, we are never going to stamp out irresponsible dog ownership. But it would be wrong to condone it. You should have had your dog spayed for many reasons. You didn't. You should have been responsible for your dog when she was in heat. You weren't. If you are a true dog lover you should be an advocate for dogs that are unwanted and suffering, not ignore them so that you can produce cute little puppies. I am not sure why you are finding it necessary to convince us that what you are doing, and apparently have been planning to do, is a good thing. It is not.

RedyreRotties

09-15-2007, 09:18 AM

http://www.pawsoftulsa.org/spaytosave/just1litter.htm

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/justonelitter.html

From http://www.fmhs.org/sn/why.asp

Simple arithmetic illustrates how "just one litter" contributes to the mass killing: Two dogs breed. Six offspring are born. The six offspring reproduce within one year, and are responsible for six offspring each. In one year a litter of six can become 36. And unfortunately, it doesn't stop there. At the end of ten years just one unaltered dog can be responsible for 4,372 births. One unaltered cat can be responsible for 420,000 kittens in just seven years!

Catlady711

09-15-2007, 09:34 AM

ScottyMom - I think one of the issues people are having with you, that you have failed to realize, is your inconsistency.

In several posts on other forums you've made, you were looking for any male to breed your dog with because your dog was going to be coming into heat 'soon'. To people on this board that suggests that you hadn't done your homework on breeding months, or even a year or more ahead of time which reputable breeders do.

In other posts here you said this breeding was 'accidental' and claimed you were not a breeder. To people on this board that either suggests that you are changing your story or at the least you have been very irrisponsible with your dog in heat to allow an intact male dog near her at anytime.

Many people on this board go to great lengths to foster, rescue, and spend many hours donating their time at local shelters and encouraging spay/neuter clinics to help fight the overpopulation problem. You say the thing is to shut down the puppymills, many of the people here are trying to do just that, but that is only part of the problem. As long as there are thousands if not millions of BYB's the problem will continue even if every puppymill were shut down already.

The fact your dog may/man not be pregnant is not what angers people on this board, the fact you've posted ads wanting to irrisponsibly breed her, and the fact you are not a knowledgable breeder, and you have an inconsistent story is what does anger people on this board.

You said you had looked on petfinder 'once' for puppies, many times there are new puppies posted weekly, you should have kept checking back if you were truely interested in rescuing one.

If you were turned down at 'one' place for adoption you could have tried several other places to adopt from if you were truely interested. If renting was a problem for them you could have done the legwork by getting a written statement from your landlord telling them how you take care of your pets, as well as a letter from your veterinarian stating that you do provide proper vet care to the dog you already have. I'm sure a good shelter would see that as a sign of a responsible pet owner. Of course around here our shelters call the vet references and check to see if the current pets are already spayed/neutered, and the fact your dog is not may have had a HUGE impact on them not adopting to you, have you considered that fact?

You've stated that your grandmother was not looking for a puppy at the moment, however she would take one if your dog had puppies. Has it occured to you that if she really wanted a puppy so badly she also would have went to great lengths to adopt one herself? Or that possibly she's just taking one of your pups just out of charity rather than a great desire to have a puppy? Does she realize even if she had one of your dog's puppies that it would not be just like the dog you have, since every puppy is unique in personality?

You said this breeding was 'accidental' because 'someone told you' they couldn't get pregnant that soon after going into a heat cycle. Had it occured to you to call your vet or speak to a reputable breeder to find out for sure before your dog went into heat? Everyday at work people come in and spend money that they wouldn't have had to spend if they had just called our office first for advice instead of thinking that their friends or neighbors knew more about pets than the vet who took years of college classes to get a degree.

People on this board are not trying to be rude to you, they are reacting to your apparent lack of knowledge concerning a dog in heat, pregnancy and the inconsistencies in your story. Whether you take it as rude, they ARE trying to educate you so that this does not happen again, and that you might be able to pass that knowledge on to others to stop back yard breeding.

I don't know what you were looking for when you posted to this board. From what it appears to me is that:

1) You have no clue what to be feeding your dog despite your vet apparently telling you to continue feeding as you had been.

2) You post pictures of your dog asking the board to tell you if they think she's pregnant, which none of us can do, despite already having asked your vet that question.

If you're looking for congratulations for your dog possibly being pregnant, you'd be further ahead to just stick with your own friends and family for that, this board will likely not give you any pats on the back for it.

If you're looking for medical advice as to whether your dog is pregnant you'd be further ahead to make an appointment with your vet and have the x-ray done at 50-55 days which IS the custom to acurately count puppies.

Rather than getting angry at everyone here because they don't say what you want to hear, and I'm not really sure what it is you do want to hear, maybe you should just try starting a new thread and being specific in what questions you actually do have and really listen to the advice people have for you.

sasvermont

09-15-2007, 11:15 AM

You said what I was thinking. This person is performing in front of the wrong audience, for sure.

Thanks for saying it in detail, tactfully, and truthfully.

I had Scotties when I was a kid. I loved them so. We never bred them, just loved them to pieces. They do come with their built in issues, like many breeds. I feel sorry for this pup. I trust she is loved.

I hope this person sees the light soon.

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 11:58 AM

inlovewithanimals

09-15-2007, 12:11 PM

critter crazy

09-15-2007, 12:11 PM

Ok so aparently you CANT get anyone's help anywhere i see. Leaving it all behind. Why when people ask a question you respond with another one?

If you are trying to make ME abort the litter that WONT happen so save your words. She will have them unless her life is on the edge like i said.

You cant help, those who dont want to be helped! Everyone has voiced their opinions, you just dont like what they have said. We have tried!!

I am not sure what help you are looking for anyways?? people have told you the best ways to care for your dog, while pregnant. what more do you need??

I your first post, you asked what we thought in reguards to your dog possibly being prgnant- we cannot tell from pics, you need to get an ultra sound, simple.

In your second post, you asked if you were feding her too much- you need to feed your dog a proper diet, which does not include people food. this is in no way good for any dog, let alone a pregnant one.

You also raised concerns reguarding her vomiting and Diarhea- This could be caused by the change in food, the added human food, or many numerous things. If she is still vommiting and having diarhea i would take her to the vets to get checked out.

as far as I can tell, all your questions thus far has been answered. Not sure what else you are looking for?

as far as peole asking questions, while you are looking for answers, well sometimes we need more info to give you the correct answers.

is there anything I have missed??

RedyreRotties

09-15-2007, 12:12 PM

http://clubs.akc.org/stca/geneticissues.htm

I wonder, have you had the VetGen vWD test done on your bitch?

How about testing for thyroid function? Cataracts?

Lady's Human

09-15-2007, 12:29 PM

inlovewithanimals

I'd like to apoligize for all of the rude irigent people on Pet Talk

No need to apologize for me, thank you. My replies are neither rude nor ignorant.

Rude and ignorant (I'm assuming that's what you meant) is random breeding of mutts while there are dogs in shelters.

Alysser

09-15-2007, 12:47 PM

Im sorry but I think most of you people on here with the attitudes are pathetic!!! It's her dog and if she wants to breed her thats her buisness! my parents have breed our dog and the last littler i posted on here and I got nothing but mean and hurtfull comments and the puppy she had was a still born! But when someone comes on here and asks for advice and they get nothing but attitude that is perty sad and pathetic! :mad: :eek: :mad:

and as for advice I go to dctor william trusdale and he recomended givin my dog little bits rasberry leaf tea mixed in with her food just the leaf's though and if shes in labor and nothing happens within 24 hours i'd get her to the vet o and Uhm I would get a whelping box towels and a heating pad. and if she has a hard time produceing milk doctor trusdale recomended yogurt for her well I hope I was some help. and I'd like to apoligize for all of the rude irigent people on Pet Talk good luck with your pups! hope you keep us updated and share picures! :)

Justin and the loved pets.

First of all, if she posts this on a public forum and asks for opinions, that is exactly what she is going to get! :rolleyes: Just because she doesn't like them, she is rude back. Is this our fault? NO! Secondly, don't apologize for me thanks. I am capable of doing that myself if I feel it is necessary and in this case it isn't.

You obviously used the wrong words when you said rude and ignorant. We're only rude to people who are rude to us, which she was. Ignorance is what you and her both have. You can't see OUR POINT! I am SORRY if I care about the unwanted dog population and millions upon millions of dogs being put to sleep each year in shelters because of people who have no right to be breeding dogs. This posts really makes me judge your love for dogs. When uneducated people breed dogs, they forget they take away homes for the dogs in shelters and can care less about the poor critters dying.

I love how people call us all ignorant yet they can't see our point and completely ignore what is trying to be said.

inlovewithanimals

09-15-2007, 12:49 PM

I wasnt talking about anyoine specific but now you are being!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

inlovewithanimals

09-15-2007, 12:52 PM

Ok you eally have some nearve to judge people like that!!! I thought PT was to help people which apparetly you arnt doing!!!And I love my dogs jsut like you love your just because people breed theire dogs doesnt meen we dont love them ok so thanks but no thanks for the attitude!!!

Alysser

09-15-2007, 12:58 PM

Ok you eally have some nearve to judge people like that!!!

If you didn't realize it, you were just judging me before by calling me and all the other PT'ers rude and ignorant. That being said, I NEVER said people who breed dogs don't love them, I said if you don't care about the animal population then you don't. I also said it makes me judge your love for dogs, I never definitely said you didn't.

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 01:07 PM

sasvermont

09-15-2007, 01:10 PM

I hope someone closes this thread soon. It is pointless now. I am going to add some names to my ignore list, and get it over with fast. I had a feeling this would end up getting ugly.

Ugh.

Again, I hope this pup does just fine and there is a happy ending...... we will never really know.

I am moving on....never to open this thread again..... Ugh X 1,000. :rolleyes:

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 01:14 PM

Yeah PLEASE i beg someone close this. An update will be give at week 6 on the 19th of September if you all want to know.

mr.chiwawa

09-15-2007, 01:30 PM

You opened the door on it. Why don't you do something wise and close it yourself. As for me being rude and stating my opinions it is kinda a given when comming onto something like this. There are bound to be things people belive that you don't. However that doesn't give you the right to be rude back. I am pretty sure that if you just took it with a grain of salt this thread wouldn't have gotten so nasty so quick. I wish you the best of luck for the dog's sake however that doesn't mean I condone what is being done. I won't say I'm sorry for I don't have any reason to be. And if you stoped being so bullheaded you would have seen as I did many people did offer you good sound advice. Why you choose to overlook it I don't know. And maybe just maybe it would be wise not to update the entire board who in a majority doesn't agree with you but to instead PM those who are intrested. Again best of luck to you

critter crazy

09-15-2007, 01:31 PM

The thing is before you get help in the forums you MUST swallow all the insults and bad treatment that they give you. Then they might realize that whats done is done and maybe at least try to help.

I dont need to be here to be treated like garbage. Because i have more people in other forums that instead of trash talk to me they HELP me.

I dont care what you got to say on here. I dont care about your opinion all i wanted was an answer.

I think you have gotten answers, you just choose to ignore them.

I am not sure what help you are looking for anyways?? people have told you the best ways to care for your dog, while pregnant. what more do you need??

I your first post, you asked what we thought in reguards to your dog possibly being prgnant- we cannot tell from pics, you need to get an ultra sound, simple.

In your second post, you asked if you were feding her too much- you need to feed your dog a proper diet, which does not include people food. this is in no way good for any dog, let alone a pregnant one.

You also raised concerns reguarding her vomiting and Diarhea- This could be caused by the change in food, the added human food, or many numerous things. If she is still vommiting and having diarhea i would take her to the vets to get checked out.

as far as I can tell, all your questions thus far has been answered. Not sure what else you are looking for?

as far as peole asking questions, while you are looking for answers, well sometimes we need more info to give you the correct answers.

is there anything I have missed??

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 01:39 PM

I am not sure what help you are looking for anyways?? people have told you the best ways to care for your dog, while pregnant. what more do you need??

I your first post, you asked what we thought in reguards to your dog possibly being prgnant- we cannot tell from pics, you need to get an ultra sound, simple.

(Taken for palpation to the vet on day 25, felt two little things) Waiting for days 50-55 for x rays)

In your second post, you asked if you were feding her too much- you need to feed your dog a proper diet, which does not include people food. this is in no way good for any dog, let alone a pregnant one.

(Let me tell you something i ALWAYS post in threads. I had a 6 year old Dalmatian who got pregnant without me even knowing, i was not caring for her i was away. No one ever told me she mated. I NEVER took her to the vet because she was not acting strange, she was mellow like always and did not show any signs, was not time for a yearly check up or shots. I believe 63 days later she had the first puppy in my bed and went all the way to 7! Sadly two where born dead the rest where happy and healthy. She had them without any special care through the pregnancy because i did NOT know she was expecting)

You also raised concerns reguarding her vomiting and Diarhea- This could be caused by the change in food, the added human food, or many numerous things. If she is still vommiting and having diarhea i would take her to the vets to get checked out.

(Did you NOT read what i posted yesterday? I took her to the vet at 5)

Yes but i came here looking for other opinions. Something like
"Well i dont know if your dog looks pregnant for sure" OR
"I believe you need to wait a little longer" NOT
"OMG you are so cruel to your dog abort them and get her spayed" OR
"You are such a cruel person how could you?"

HOW can anyone be in the forums if this is what they get!

critter crazy

09-15-2007, 01:46 PM

Yes but i came here looking for other opinions. Something like
"Well i dont know if your dog looks pregnant for sure" OR
"I believe you need to wait a little longer" NOT
"OMG you are so cruel to your dog abort them and get her spayed" OR
"You are such a cruel person how could you?"

HOW can anyone be in the forums if this is what they get!

well how do those answers you described, help you?? If that is all you are looking for than you came to the wrong place!! Sounds like you just wanted to "Show off" your pregnant dog, more than anything!

and once again, we are all entitled to our own opinions!

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 02:11 PM

I know you all complain about me and all, i know this was a HUGE mistake. But before you go off at me read this post i added in my other forum please.

And no i was NOT showing anything off to anyone.
__________________________________________________ _______________

I read a website for Wizzard and Claws i believe it was, they get their "stock" as they like to call it from puppymills so they changed their name because lots of owners where complaining that puppies where dying. They sold them for over $1000 and up to $5000!!!! When they where on "sale" they went for $600 or so. Anyways i saw the order form puppymills gave this place. Some read like this

Maltese Puppies 2 for $500
Shih Tzu Puppies $250 each buy 2 get third FREE!
Dalmatian $300 each get second half price!!

Can you actually believe this? By the way then the Maltese was sold for $2500 or more. And the order form was exacly like ordering a book or so. You checked off how many you wanted and what breeds.

But in their new website they say they are a reputable breeder and every dog is loved and cared for. Thats a BIG lie they dont even own their parents. They also show pictures of celebrities of who bought puppies there and are very happy with them and also of costumers. I am sure the celeb photos are fake and the rest are as well. They have to keep changing their name because more people are complaining. Is an online pet store too!

if you want the whole scoop on this please visit the website below.

http://www.stopwizardofclaws.com/

How they order their puppies!

http://www.stopwizardofclaws.com/How...e_Ordered.html

How much puppies are actually worth and how much they sell them for.

http://www.stopwizardofclaws.com/Pup...tual_Cost.html

You can visit first link for more.

Ginger's Mom

09-15-2007, 02:38 PM

Many of us are aware that puppy mills and agents exist. It is a horrible thing, and if the owner of a puppy mill or an agent posted on here they would probably meet with a lot of opposition. I am not sure what the purpose of your above post is other than to make us aware of the practice. It doesn't change anything.

(Let me tell you something i ALWAYS post in threads. I had a 6 year old Dalmatian who got pregnant without me even knowing, i was not caring for her i was away. No one ever told me she mated. I NEVER took her to the vet because she was not acting strange, she was mellow like always and did not show any signs, was not time for a yearly check up or shots. I believe 63 days later she had the first puppy in my bed and went all the way to 7! Sadly two where born dead the rest where happy and healthy. She had them without any special care through the pregnancy because i did NOT know she was expecting)
It is hard to tell when you are quoting someone and when you are "speaking" for yourself. Since I do not see this mentioned anywhere else in this thread I assume it is you that is stating this. :( So this isn't the first time that you had an unspayed female become pregnant by "accident." What happened to the five surviving puppies, did you keep them? Are you financially prepared to care for five puppies as they grow into dogs if that happens again?

RedyreRotties

09-15-2007, 02:44 PM

bottom line is, ScottieMommie, you have lied, mishandled your bitch, and irresponsible either bred her intentionally or carelessly allowed it to happen.

Then you come here, ask questions, and then when you don't like the answers you got (same at at PDGS), you get your back all up and get rude and defensive.

Your bitch has unverifiable background, is from a questionable source, is too young to be bred, has not had appropriate health testing, and should not be bred AT ALL, much less with a dog of a different breed. The smart thing to do is to SPAY your bitch. The very LEAST to do is have an ultrasound or a Relaxin blood test to determine if she is ACTUALLY in whelp.

You should also keep in mind that there are numerous complications that can happen during whelping and post whelping, up to and including the death of the bitch and/or all the puppies. Things happen like malpresentations, uterine inertia, emergency C sections, cleft palates, intestines on the outside of the body, mothers who have not enough milk, or no milk, or poison milk that kills all the puppies, eclampsia (which can kill a bitch after delivery), uterine infections post parturition (which can cause poison milk, and kill all the puppies and the bitch).

If you get through whelping safely, then you must get the puppies raised. Scotty bitches can be quite territorial with puppies, so be ready for that. You will need dewormer, vaccines, tail docking and dew claw removal by 3 days of age. If you don't keep your house quarantined, your puppies can make 5 weeks old only to die of Parvo or Distemper before they are old enough to be vaccinated.

Most of the time breeding dogs is about DEATH right along with new life. All breeders know that every breeding can mean the life of their bitch. I hope you don't have to find that out the hard way like so many people have.

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 02:49 PM

critter crazy

09-15-2007, 05:36 PM

Thanks Redeye for the consern. Like i said this is not my first time. I had a pregnant Dalmatian once and if you read the story you would know =] Nothing of what you listed happend. BUT there is always a first time for everything. By the way why would i have their tails docked? Scotties dont have docked tails. It is a preference. By the way if you mend it that way.

Okay so Like this poster asked..................

So this isn't the first time that you had an unspayed female become pregnant by "accident." What happened to the five surviving puppies, did you keep them? Are you financially prepared to care for five puppies as they grow into dogs if that happens again?

Pam

09-15-2007, 06:47 PM

I really don't even know why you came to this board. You have now had two female dogs get pregnant, then you ask for advice and then get mad when it is given.

Most, if not all, of the people on this board have their pets spayed/neutered as soon as the vet gives the OK (appropriate ages vary by vet). I am amazed that you did not have that done for your female(s). If you had done that, this thread wouldn't even exist.

We are not veterinarians here but again most, if not all, of the people on this board totally rely on their veterinarian and would not come here seeking medical advice. If you are relying on a group of people on the internet I really feel sorry for your dog and puppies. Responsible people spay/neuter and consult with their veterinarian when they have problems, questions or concerns. I really don't even understand why you started this thread. :confused:

ScottieMommy

09-15-2007, 07:37 PM

First of all i wanted a second opinion. YES or coarse she has been to the vet, how do you think i found out her pregnancy chances? How do you think she gets her check ups? Shots? and so on.

Really how do i close this thread? Is pointless i know. Also if anyone wants an update i will update when she turns 6 weeks pregnant (if she is) on September 19th.

wolfsoul

09-15-2007, 09:40 PM

Breeding is not just about cute puppies. There is alot of heartache involved. Hopefully you don't find out the hard way. A good breeder breeds for the better of the breed. And they make themselves comfortable with the fact that their breeding program always comes before their dogs. Can you honestly tell yourself that you will be okay if your dogs dies giving birth? Or dies after mastitis goes unnoticed and the infection gets into her bloodstream? Or dies because a stillborn puppy remained in her uterus and started an infection? When you breed a dog, you have to know the risks involved. Those of us that do it for the better of the breed have to look at the breed as a whole and continue looking at the future, and while we love our dogs dearly and do the best we can, bad things still happen. It doesn't stop most of us because the future of the breed is still important to us.
You don't even have a breed to better when breeding mixes. So what is important to you? What makes you put your dog's life at risk?
If you can't answer these questions, how canyou expect to deal with the real thing?
Breeding can have great rewards..But it can have it's heartaches. Just prepare yourself for the worst. And in the future, make better decisions. I will always regret breeding my first litter before I knew the pedigree well enough. I spent thousands, and ended up with singleton puppy I am now placing due to temperament problems that could have been avoided...IF I had done my research properly. I will never make the same mistake again, because in the end it is the dogs that end up hurting. I'd also recommend fostering. Before your start adding to the population...It is good to help out those without homes.

Karen

09-15-2007, 09:48 PM

crow_noir

09-16-2007, 02:17 AM

The way i see it is that child abuse, and the pet overpopulation are directly tied to the human overpopulation.

When you have known as many foster children as i have you wouldn't think twice about comparing human children to the animals in the pounds.

Apples and oranges both grow on trees; both can still get sprayed with pesticides. Both can still suffer from temperature extremes.

I can't stand when people can value life when it suits them, but will turn a blind eye to it the next. Abortion is abortion. Whether it is a human child or a puppy or kitten.

Crow_Noir, comparing dogs and comparing children is like comparing apples to oranges. When kids are put to sleep by the millions each year, then you can bring them into the picture. I am not trying to be rude, and perhaps in someone else's case I have failed to do that, but honestly one thing I can't stand is when kids are brought into the picture of the unwanted pet population and breeding.

crow_noir

09-16-2007, 02:36 AM

I find it disgusting that there are people here that think that those that have different opinions or even possibly undereducated about what really goes on in the pet world don't have a right to come and post on this forum.

It is sickening how RUDE and forcefully opinionated many here have been.

I think a lot more could be accomplished if y'all would take newcomers gently under your wings and guide them in the right direction. You know "... more flies with honey."

Realistically all you do by alienating and angering newcomers that have bred is make them bitter towards the spay/neuter crowd. ...possibly making it less likely that they'll do rescue in the future. You miss out a great opportunity to make their pets' lives better.

Rather than throwing venom filled opinions, why not be kind with your words? Use some tact people! Educate and post facts. (Not just statistics and preaching.)

I really don't even know why you came to this board. You have now had two female dogs get pregnant, then you ask for advice and then get mad when it is given.

Most, if not all, of the people on this board have their pets spayed/neutered as soon as the vet gives the OK (appropriate ages vary by vet). I am amazed that you did not have that done for your female(s). If you had done that, this thread wouldn't even exist.

We are not veterinarians here but again most, if not all, of the people on this board totally rely on their veterinarian and would not come here seeking medical advice. If you are relying on a group of people on the internet I really feel sorry for your dog and puppies. Responsible people spay/neuter and consult with their veterinarian when they have problems, questions or concerns. I really don't even understand why you started this thread. :confused:

Pam

09-16-2007, 08:21 AM

\ don't have a right to come and post on this forum.

I never said that she didn't have a right to post on this forum. I am just wondering why she chose to. She seems to know about BYB and puppy mills and all the rest, so it is/was surprising to me that she would think of planning a mixed litter and then telling her story on a board of pet lovers. I have nothing more to say on this matter and will not open this thread again.

ScottieMommy

09-16-2007, 09:03 AM

mr.chiwawa

09-16-2007, 09:13 AM

How do you expect me NOT to know about BYB and Puppymills? If you are a dog LOVER how can you not know? That more than 150 dogs are bred to death every single day? How can you not know where pet store puppies come from? You want me to stay ignorant by NOT knowing whats going on out there in the pet world?

You should look at in a good way
My dog= 2 puppies=SPAY + PUPPIES
Puppymills= 150 dogs=250 puppies + dying in horrible cages after 10+ year of breeding.

But no you rather attack people and MAKE them feel horrible for what they have done. And you know what if you want to go ahead and leave then leave.

:mad: STOP IT You are getting rudeness due to your HIGH levels of defense comming right back just STOP IT!!!!!!!! STOP beating around the bush NOT EVERY RESPONSE NEEDS A COMMENT FROM YOU. Why don't you for once on this post take the higher road and just close it out? :rolleyes:

ScottieMommy

09-16-2007, 09:17 AM

Mr: Chi is NOT ok for me to comment in every post what i think or my opinion, but is OK for you to come and post all the garbage talk and opinions you want about me? Well i tell you what, it does NOT work that way. I know i was right in my last post and you know it. Thats why you get mad every single time i post something new. I can sit here and let you all trash talk your opinions but i have NO right at all to say mines? What kind forum is this? I am sorry if you dont want to hear it perhaps leave?
__________________________________________________ _______________
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

(Originally Posted by ScottieMommy
How do you expect me NOT to know about BYB and Puppymills? If you are a dog LOVER how can you not know? That more than 150 dogs are bred to death every single day? How can you not know where pet store puppies come from? You want me to stay ignorant by NOT knowing whats going on out there in the pet world?

You should look at in a good way
My dog= 2 puppies=SPAY + PUPPIES
Puppymills= 150 dogs=250 puppies + dying in horrible cages after 10+ year of breeding.

But no you rather attack people and MAKE them feel horrible for what they have done. And you know what if you want to go ahead and leave then leave.)

mr.chiwawa

09-16-2007, 09:26 AM

ONCE AGIAN YOU DID NOT HEAR WHAT WAS BEING SAD AND SO SORRY I WILL NOT LEAVE JUST BECAUSE ONE PERSON DOESN'T LIKE MY THOUGHTS OR OPINIONS..... :rolleyes: :D

ScottieMommy

09-16-2007, 09:28 AM

Mr: Chiwawa you are just finding a lame excuse so you are always right =] Let me tell you life does NOT always work out that way. Sorry if you want to be the one that is ALWAYS right your not. Sometimes the OP makes sence as well. And no i actually did not expect you to leave :eek:

mr.chiwawa

09-16-2007, 09:31 AM

try taking a walk on the other side of the tracks sometimes...I NEVER stated that I was always right. Have a good day I'm done with this post I don't need anymore added stress espically from a post that has gotten soo out of control. Just remember the loudest word isn't always the spoken word.
Best of luck to you

ScottieMommy

09-16-2007, 09:39 AM

No but you stated that i stoped posting my opinions and comments as if i NEVER had anything to say or i should not say anything because i am apparently always wrong so i better off saying nothing, and thats insulting because you CAN say all you want to me but when i go off you seem to get mad, meaning you expect to say all this things to me and expect for me to stay quiet. Ok if you are done now good, i might step off as well.

RedyreRotties

09-16-2007, 10:39 AM

Nuh uh

Uh huh

NUH UH

UH HUH

DID NOT

DID TOO

:rolleyes:

Scotty Mom, please talk to your vet about an ultrasound so you can find out if your bitch is in whelp. You need to know this in order to take proper care of her.

If she IS in whelp, please research so that you will know the warning signs if she needs help during her delivery. Also research so you will know the warning signs of puppies in distress in case you need to seek assistance for them during the first several weeks when mortality rates are high.

Please understand that those of us who deal with the rescue situation on a regular basis, and who take every care to ensure that our breedings are done responsibly and for the betterment of our respective breeds are very adamant about people who breed irresponsibly.

This is a good opportunity for you to think on the responses you have gotten about this on several different forums. As they say, if it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck.